Grey Thoughts

+Transcript

Rambling 296: Godzilla: The True Story Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised. Jack: Going live in 5, 4. Cristina: What does live mean? Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I'm your host, Jack. Cristina: And I'm your host, Cristina. Jack: And this is the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas. And today, I thought it would be really cool if we looked at something that happened recently and unpacked how the world has reacted in response to these things that have occurred to Godzilla. Godzilla. I mean, I guess I wonder how people would react to Godzilla. I know there would be people who would be like, wow, it was based on truth. Instantly, a bunch of conspiracy theorists are gonna say, we were right all along. And the elites always put the truth in front of you because they have to tell you for whatever deal they made with something. Cristina: If it's part of conspiracy, then did they. Did the government, the world government, or whatever make Godzilla interesting? Jack: Or Godzilla could be a demon, a deity of some sort. God. God is in the name. Somebody's gonna put that connection together. Cristina: He's a God that was hidden, but someone knew about him. So did the government hide him until he broke loose or until the government was like, you know, the world government was like, okay, these people are out of control. We gotta let this guy loose. Jack: You think? Okay, okay, let's go back. You think the government made Godzilla? Cristina: No, I'm not saying they made him, but if they kept him a secret, then they probably have him locked up. Jack: Yes. Yes. Okay, fair enough. Fair enough. So the premise here is ultimately right. We're gonna fix this. This is gonna make a lot of sense. The premise here is two things. Regardless of how Godzilla is real and two, actually, three concepts that need to work here. Godzilla is real. And we're gonna prove this somehow. Cristina: Sure. Jack: And two, the government somehow knew. Somehow, somehow. Cristina: Whether they kept it or they just knew where he was or something. Jack: And three, that's because we only know about Godzilla to begin with. Because the government always has to tell us whatever they're doing, even if in secrecy. So they have to put it in front of us somehow. Cristina: Okay. Jack: Because the elites have to show us they made a deal with something. As we know is whatever theory. Cristina: Yes. Jack: And they have to show you. They got to tell you what they're doing, so they'll do it in cryptic ways so you don't know, but you know, or whatever. Cristina: I don't get it. I think it's so you can be used to it, so that when it happens, you're not as scared. Except the point of showing it is to scare you. Like, I don't. I don't know. So, like, they show it to you so that you. When it does happen, you're not too freaked out about it. Because they don't want you to kill yourself. Because at the end of the day, they still need you alive. Jack: Yeah. Cristina: For whatever their evil plan is. They just need you to know that it was possible. And then when it's possible when it's there, then. Jack: But I don't know why they would want you to know about Godzilla. Cristina: Why would they? They want us to know about everything. Aliens? Jack: Yeah. That's why. I think it's not that they're trying to descend. I think those people are wrong. If. If our three things are to be true, then they don't want us to know about Godzilla because they're unleashing Godzilla to kill us. Cristina: No. Jack: To do what? Why? Why would. Okay, let's. Let's work on one of these problems at a time. Cristina: Okay? Jack: Why are they. Cristina: Who. Jack: Somehow the theory that you're going with is they're trapping Godzilla. Godzilla? Maybe they could have made Godzilla, but Godzilla could have existed beforehand. Cristina: Yes. Jack: So it could happen either way. Maybe it was an accident. It could be that the story they told us about Godzilla was accurate. Cristina: It's just a natural thing that happened out from radiation hitting a lizard or something. From their bombs. Jack: Is that the initial story? Cristina: Something like that. Like they. We bombed Japan and then Godzilla was made. No. Jack: Okay, okay, okay, hold on. Let's. Let's f******. Without looking it up first, let's. Let's make our assumption. Okay, so you think war. Cristina: Yes. Jack: And nuclear waste. 00:05:00 Cristina: Yes. And then lizard and nuclear waste equals Godzilla. Jack: Okay, okay. I think cautionary tale. Power plant or chemical waste plant or something. Cristina: Yeah. And a lizard. Jack: Yeah. Wait, but you're saying war? Cristina: Well, it could be either or. Jack: Okay, you're just saying chemical. Cristina: Chemicals. A lizard, Godzilla. Jack: Chemicals. A lizard Godzilla. I agree. I think. I think it's a cautionary term. Cristina: Chemicals. I think it's bit a lizard and made Godzilla. Jack: Chemicals. Bit a lizard. Cristina: It's like Spider Man. Jack: Okay, fair enough. Kind of like the Ninja Turtles. Cristina: Yes. Jack: I mean, to be fair, that story. Cristina: The Ninja Turtles of whatever that story. Jack: Is about four N4 turtles that got bit by a radioactive rat, Right? Cristina: I don't know. Jack: And didn't he find them already mutated and turned into. No, they were just turtles. Cristina: Turtles. And you're saying he made them? The rat, the rat made them? Is he the villain? I don't think so. I think he found Them? No, the bad guy probably made them by accident. Doing weird experiment things. Jack: I bet. I bet it's some crap like that. Cristina: Experiments or an accident. Jack: No, I think. Yeah, it would probably have been like. And then he was trying the. His quest in life was to stop what he. The problem he created. So he spent his whole life trying to fix the issue of four mutant rats. I mean, turtles and a. I don't know. Maybe he made the rat too. They knew each other or something. Wasn't Master Splinter his master? Cristina: And he's just a dude. It's just a regular human dude against some wild animals. Jack: Any train. Cristina: And he's bad. Jack: Well, I don't know. I think I could be wrong. I don't know why. This is the memory, and I'm not gonna look it up. We're never gonna find out, okay? Because I've never seen the Ninja Turtles. I've read so little about the Ninja Turtles. I think, like, I literally don't even know how they became. Cristina: Like. Jack: I'm assuming it's waste if my memory says waste to some degree. Right? Cristina: Yeah. Jack: I think the rat knew martial arts because the guy taught it. But as you have brought up the question, did this guy teach a normal rat martial arts and that rat then went off into the world and became a mutant freak? Or did this guy make or find a mutant rat? Cristina: I can't believe he actually. No, I don't think he has to do anything with them. That can't be part of the story. It doesn't make sense. Jack: Then how the h*** did. He's a good guy. It doesn't matter what the h*** we're looking at. This guy is probably trying to just stop these weird animal freaks. Does he have targets? Does he harm people? Cristina: I think he's a criminal. Jack: Oh, he's a criminal. Cristina: I'm pretty sure he's doing crime. Jack: Are they superheroes? Cristina: I think so. Because I feel like the girl that's involved is also, like, a journalist or something. Jack: Holy s***. Are they Spider Man? Cristina: Yes. They're just like Superman. Jack: Are they super strong? Don't they have to, like, know martial arts? They gotta combat these guys one to one. They're not like one shotting everybody. Cristina: But they're. It's hard to hurt them. They're turtles, I guess. They have the highest defense. They might not be the fastest or strongest, but they're defense man. Jack: In a world where other creatures also mutated in a similar fashion. If we said they all approximated to about the same size, why would that happen? I don't Know even why the turtles began with. Okay, the least defensive thing Would probably be a standing turtle. Cristina: Well, maybe they can do stuff with their shells. I don't know. Jack: How could they see you if the only way for that defense to be high up, and you'd still have six points that you can be poked or stabbed or killed through? Yeah, you're just upping your defense. It's not perfect. Cristina: You think it. They're less defensive, though? Jack: I don't think they're less offensive. I think they're just lame. Cristina: They are pretty lame. Yeah. Jack: Yeah, yeah. In fact, we would have to increase the size of these turtles to make everybody the size of the biggest already existing. So the elephant is the only creature that wouldn't increase in size. All the other creatures would. 00:10:00 Jack: Except giraffe. We'll see the elephant, the giraffe. That's where we cap off. They don't change. Everything below them must increase in size to be at least the height of the elephant. If the turtles went up. Cristina: Yes, because they're like godzilla, who was a little lizard. Because it was smaller than them. Probably. Jack: Yes. But their soft spot is going to be larger. Yes. Cristina: Their soft spot. Jack: Yeah. The flat, the six points where the head goes in, where the two front and back legs going, and where the tail goes in, which is actually not different holes. Usually you have two large slits which are where their arms, the top arm, the top legs, and their head are. And then where their tail and back and hind legs are. Those are the two exits. So those two soft spots, as the turtle gets larger Would then be more vulnerable and be a larger target for the opponents. And if they're hiding, to remove their head, arms, and legs. Cristina: I don't know why they pick turtles. I don't know. It makes no sense. Jack: Yeah. They couldn't see you. Cristina: I thought they picked something cooler. Jack: They couldn't see you. Cristina: Turtles was cool. And then they gave them the attitude of spider man. I'm imagining that they came out around the same time on spider man because they have that boyish attitude that spider man has. But there's what, four or five of them? Jack: Say that again. Cristina: That they have the same attitude that spider man has. Jack: Yeah, they're broad out and, like making jokes. Cristina: Yeah. Jack: Except the angry red one. Cristina: Huh? Jack: He doesn't make jokes. Right. He's serious. Cristina: I don't know. There's an angry ninja turtle. Jack: I thought there was an angry red one. Cristina: I don't. I don't know. Jack: I know. Hold on. Let me see. Cristina: I don't even know if there's four or five of them. I don't even know the number of turtles. Jack: I think there's four turtles and a girl turtle. Four dude turtles. Cristina: Girl turtle. Jack: There's a dudette turtle. Cristina: There's not a dudette turtle. There's a girl, but she's not a turtle. Jack: No, there's a girl. Cristina: There's not a girl turtle. Jack: I promise you there's a girl. Cristina: She must have came out way later because the original turtles are. No. Are just boy turtles. Jack: No. I mean, yeah, sure, but there's a girl turtle. No, there is a hundred percent a girl turtle. Cristina: When did they introduce a girl turtle? It makes no sense. Jack: I think pretty early. Cristina: Are you positive? Jack: I guarantee you there is a girl. Cristina: But she's not a turtle. She's a human. Jack: There's a female ninja turtle. I swear to God. No. Cristina: What does that mean? Jack: She got turtle b****. Cristina: That's exactly what I was picturing. But no, there's not ninja turtle. No. Jack: In turn, she's blue. Girl turtle. Cristina: But that's just a made up turtle. Jack: She's blue and light. She's light. Cristina: She's not one of them. They just turned one of their turtles into a female turtle. Jack: No, they got blue. They got b****. Cristina: No, look, there's a. That's him. Jack: No, no. Cristina: Yes, there is that guy. They just changed his sex, but he still. No, there's no female ninja turtle. Jack: What is her name? Cristina: I don't know. Jack: There you go. Cristina: Ew. Jack: Yeah, there's just a chick that's lighter blue. Cristina: When did she. But she's not part of the original Ninja turtles. Jack: You probably not. I don't. Sure you could tell. I'll go with that. I have no idea. Cristina: I just know they don't look like teens anymore. I don't know what they're supposed to be. Now you see that girl? She's the girl. And she's just a human in the yellow suit. Jack: That's the reporter. Cristina: Yeah, I think something like that. Jack: There's just an extra turtle here who isn't even a chick. Cristina: I don't know what's happening. Jack: Yeah, but you get the point. Cristina: No, I don't. What was the point? That they. Jack: There's a female turtle. Cristina: The turtles. Originally there's like four turtles, now there's. Jack: Five and there's a chick. And I think it's been like that since like the second iteration. Cristina: No, he's like. Even the newest projects, you don't see the girl turtle. Jack: Oh, fair enough. Maybe they just don't like. Maybe sexism is alive. Cristina: Maybe. Jack: Okay, There are three scenarios here that are depicted in films that we can use to try to understand Godzilla right now. Cristina: Okay. Jack: One, nuclear testing. You were right. My specifics on it being a power plant was wrong. 00:15:00 Jack: But it wasn't war, it was for war. Cristina: Okay. Jack: It was just test site, probably some random a** island in the middle of nowhere, but had wildlife. Biology suggests in other films that it was a prehistoric kind of dinosaur. Cristina: I don't understand. Jack: So upon the discovery of this dinosaur that was somehow living underwater, is it. Cristina: Like that movie where they found King Kong in the center of the world? Jack: Kind of, yeah. Cristina: Like she's just sleeping in the center of the world and somehow she pops out here. Or he. She. I don't know what Godzilla is. Jack: Well, she. I think she's neither. Cristina: Okay, Well, I think she's like a. Jack: Frog could just, you know, asexually reproduce. Cristina: But Godzilla was down there. Jack: Yeah. Or just sleeping at the bottom of the ocean or something like Nessie. Cristina: Okay. Jack: And so, yeah, that's the other idea. Cristina: And there's a third one. Jack: The third one is essentially a hybrid logic where there was this maybe unknown reptile that was exposed to some chemical waste and that. So it's sort of both things. It had a unique chemistry that then allowed it to become. Cristina: I'm not sure what you tried to say. Jack: There are other lizards and other things in the same water with the same lizard that then became Godzilla. Godzilla was either amongst the species that it was the last of, or it had wandered off into a different eg area and reached the radiation. And its unique DNA had its reaction to the exposure to be turning into this large thing and nothing else did. Because the logic would be why would radiation turn this one lizard huge and not all the others, which is legit? Cristina: I don't know. Because like, if he's real, then what stops all the other things that they are showing us to be real? Jack: Legit. So assuming that Godzilla is a self contained situation, then we can write off the nuclear test site is wrong. And it's probably some kind of creature that has existed for a long time. Meaning the government found it. Cristina: Okay. Jack: They didn't make it. They saw this thing. Who knows how long it's been hidden or caught. But the government has it. We don't know when or why. We just know that they have it. Cristina: Okay, solved. Jack: They caught some sort of ancient creature. Cristina: That's what they do. Jack: Yes. Okay, now how do they know its capabilities? Cristina: They gotta experiment on it like they do. Jack: But how? Where? I guess we, no matter what, we can make a Space large enough. If we have enough funds, it doesn't matter. Cristina: Yeah, maybe it's where we say the aliens are. What's that spot? Area 52. Area? Jack: Yeah, giant location where it could fire whatever beam into nowhere. Cristina: They're experimenting on it. That's how they make their flying ships. They're not using alien technology. They're using an alien like creature. I guess. Jack: Fair enough. And its energy beam is what taught us about lasers and s***. Cristina: Yep, yep, yep. Jack: Interesting. Okay, so then now the question is, why would they release it? To do what? Cristina: To get us not to not. It's confusing because it has to do with Jesus coming back to life and the rapture. But it's like the government is against Jesus. So I don't know. I try to understand these conspiracies, but it's always something like this. Jack: Okay, well, assuming the whole Jesus thing is wrong and the rapture isn't gonna happen, grounding this in the re. In being as real as possible, what are some reasons the government might release Godzilla? Like, what's a real concern that they would be like, oh, get the people in check. I mean, maybe think about it. Think about it. We got conspiracy project 100% to fight the aliens. No, if some government. That's probably why they show us this movie specifically. Right. It's like, oh, we found this creature is one movie. But hey, he helps us from time to time. Cristina: Yeah, Godzilla sometimes not that bad. Jack: I bet they've always been working on mind control technology in order to figure it out for Godzilla. Maybe. Maybe it's not a creature they can control. So they maintain it tied and sedated because it's like, dude, this dinosaur 00:20:00 Jack: is bigger than most of our mega structures. Cristina: Yes. Like, why are they gonna. It's not to attack us. Like, they don't need a giant lizard, dude. Jack: Also, the size depiction of Godzilla tells us that maybe Godzilla has been around and we've seen it throughout time. Because think about the different scales. Sometimes it's just the right size to fight King Kong, and King Kong is so small, it had to climb to the top of the Empire State Building. Cristina: Yeah, he's not that. Jack: He's not that big. Cristina: Yeah. Jack: Other times, Godzilla is so tremendously f****** large that it is the height of the Empire State Building. Cristina: So what are we. What are we saying? It's actual sizes? Then I think maybe the child, if there's children version is the size of King Kong. Jack: And really the adult is what we're holding back. That's the. When we're talking about, we let Some creature out to protect Earth. That's what we're talking about. We're talking about that really big one we're hoping the guy we can control at some point. Because we're going to need it for when the big s*** comes to. When the meteor is almost here. Shoot a beam into the sky. Cristina: Could be okay to stop the, you. Jack: Know, aliens are coming. Start attacking. Fire all you've got. Cristina: You don't think it's like a government thing? Like, they know the other. Every country has their own Godzilla thing. And they're like, okay, if someone releases their Godzilla, then you got the. You got to press the button to release our Godzilla. Kind of like the nuclear crisis, except with monsters. Jack: Then. Then America doesn't have Godzilla. Cristina: Why not? Jack: Because Godzilla's Japanese, Right? Cristina: I don't know. Because I think it comes from us doing the experiment with radiation. Them seeing what we're doing. That created the fear. Jack: But they caught the creature. It's their creature. It was over there. Cristina: So. Or maybe we're attacking them with it. Jack: I have a theory that works with a lot of the world. Godzilla is Japanese, and we have our own creature. Theirs was our fault. Cristina: Okay? Jack: Ours was our intention. Cristina: Oh, what is ours? Jack: I don't know. What creature do we talk about in any manner, shape or form that makes absolute sense as an equivalent to Godzilla? Cristina: I don't know. Jack: Was King Kong our creation? Cristina: I think so. Jack: We have a giant ape somewhere. Cristina: Somewhere does not really compare to Godzilla. Jack: But no, we went to Jurassic Park. We went to. Yes, we went. Yes, we went to Brazil and found King Kong. Right. Cristina: I don't know. Jack: We went to some random jungle out in a different country. It wasn't over here. No, we didn't capture King Kong and bring him over here. We went back to King Kong. Cristina: I know. Jack: We did capture King Kong at some point. That's how he got to the Empire State Building. Cristina: Yes, we captured him from the island he was at. Jack: Yes. But that's the story of how that went wrong. Okay, so is Jurassic Park. Yes, but I think you're right. I think we were like, we can do bigger and better, and we could do it with nothing but money. Cristina: Yeah. So we made not just one many. Jack: We got all of them. We got hella creatures bigger and badder than all your creatures. Cristina: I don't know if any of them compare to Godzilla. Yeah. If you look at the biggest dinosaur and put it next to Godzilla, is it competing? But even if it was competing in size, like, it doesn't have the ability to. Jack: Yes, Godzilla. Some other That's. Cristina: Even if Godzilla was smaller in size, does it matter if it shoots out beams? Jack: Yeah, it's like a pure energy. Like it'll cut, it'll. Cristina: It's. Jack: It's a lightsaber. Cristina: Yes. Like it doesn't matter what we have. No matter how large it is, there's no winning. Jack: I know. You know, like, I don't think it's gonna be. Man, that. That would be nuts. Cristina: You're looking up. Let me see, let me see. Jack: The largest dinosaur was about 85ft long and potentially as tall as a three story building at most. Cristina: And what is Godzilla size? Jack: Yeah. Now the question is, what was at its largest? Cristina: There's many, so. Yeah. Jack: Yeah, straight up. It varies from film to film, but the largest is 00:25:00 Jack: is 350ft. How tall is the Empire State Building? Nah, nah, nah, nah. So this creature was around tall buildings, but it wasn't the size of the Empire State Building. The Empire State Building ain't a joke. Godzilla's tallest size was 350ft. The Empire State Building is a hundred and fourteen fifty four feet. Cristina: Okay. And what was the tallest dinosaur? Jack: The tallest dinosaur was roughly half the size of Godzilla. With our estimate being that the possible for the largest dinosaur was roughly 122ft. But the largest we've seen that we believe can get to that size at its highest point was 85. So Godzilla will s*** on anything. Cristina: Okay. Jack: Anything. How big was the biggest King Kong? Cristina: I still don't think it's gonna compete. Jack: King Kong stands at approximately 104ft. Cristina: That's kind of whack. Jack: Yeah. Cristina: I don't understand. Jack: Biggest Godzilla is three and a half times bigger. Cristina: Yeah. That's ridiculous. Jack: Yeah. He would stop this. Cristina: He's huge and he's got powers. Who is. Who is fighting Japan if this was Japan's creature? Jack: I don't know. Cristina: That's why it has. It can't be. Jack: No. That's why we made so many investments. That's why we made so many. We're compensating. Cristina: I think Godzilla is our creature. And whenever we're not happy with Japan, we release it on Japan. Jack: Oh, s***. Maybe there wasn't a nuke. Maybe we were testing, ended up with this thing and sent that out. Cristina: Yes. And that's why they fear us and it. Because it. It's the same thing. It's us. We are their nightmare. We are Godzilla. Jack: Interesting point. So then the question is, when was the first Godzilla movie and when do we drop the bomb? Cristina: Oh, I bet that the bomb came first. I'm betting I'm betting. Jack: You think the. The bombs hit first? Cristina: Yes. If not, then at least when we started testing had to come first. Jack: Okay. Okay. We found something strange here. The first Godzilla movie. Go, Jira. Literally, the name, how you're supposed to say it, it's like in quotation marks here. Cristina: Okay. Jack: Came out on November 3, 1954. Cristina: What are you saying? Like, it happened a day later or something. Jack: Hiroshima. Cristina: Oh, my gosh. Jack: Was dropped on August 6, 1945. That was 10 years before the 11 years earlier. No, nine years back. That's nine years back. So the bombs got dropped first? Cristina: Yes. And then shortly after they make a movie. Jack: Shortly after they make a movie. Cristina: Yeah, yeah. Jack: And the area was supposed to be radiated for really exaggeratedly long time. That's wrong, though. So now it's common knowledge that, no, it's gonna be livable eventually. Cristina: So you're questioning if it was actually what we said it was? Jack: Yeah. Was Godzilla really released into. Cristina: Yes. What? I don't know. Jack: You think that'd be crazy? Cristina: No. Jack: What if we really. What if? Cristina: Really? Jack: What happened is the United States released Godzilla as a warning. But then the question is, how far apart were these? No, they were three days apart. Cristina: What was three days apart? Jack: Hiroshima. We dropped the bomb on August 6, 1945, and just erased that in Nagasaki was August 9 where we dropped it. This was three days later. There is only one possibility. If what you're talking about is the case, we have more than one. And that's why there are different sizes. The fat quote, Fat man bomb was the big one. Because the first one we let go was called the Little Boy. And the little boy could just be the small 00:30:00 Jack: Godzilla. Cristina: Yeah. And because these maybe are scientific experiments, like, maybe once they do their damage, they die. Like, maybe not leave them. They don't actually live, though. Jack: Oh, like they're gonna be. Like, they're gonna die quickly. Cristina: Yeah, they die quickly. Because they're not really. They're. They're radiated. They're. They're. They're animals, but they're not. Like, why would a radiated animal and all these stories, they stay alive and healthy and everything. Like, that's not true. They die immediately. Wouldn't they? Jack: All the other creatures. Cristina: Any creature. Jack: You mean the Godzilla? Cristina: Yes, the Godzilla. Like, any radiator. Jack: How did we get it to that size if it's gonna die quickly? It would have died long before it. Cristina: Reached that size because we hadn't had it woken up. Maybe. Maybe. Jack: We're finding these creatures, right? We're trapped. We're capturing them. Or we're making them. Did we make Godzilla? No, because we found them. We found them. This is a fact. We found these creatures. Cristina: Yes, but maybe we found their eggs and then we still have. Jack: They still have to grow naturally. Right. Because it's. We've established some creatures, a dinosaur. Cristina: Okay. Maybe they just diabetely out of their environment, Their natural environment. Jack: But they'll be right next to the water. Isn't it from the water that we're getting them? Cristina: No. From somewhere super duper radiated. Jack: No, because they're just. Unless we found somewhere naturally radiated on the planet. Cristina: Yeah, maybe because it's an ancient creature that happens to go into a radiated area that creates the Godzilla. Jack: So the argument is there's a lizard that hangs out in a raid. There's a spot naturally on earth that's always radiated. Cristina: Yes. Or that we turned it into radiated and just. Jack: No, these are dinosaurs. Cristina: These are dinosaurs. Jack: These are dinosaurs. We've established that. That the government had nothing to do with it. Cristina: No. Yes. Jack: So we must be finding these. Cristina: Yes. Jack: There must be somewhere on earth that's naturally radiated. Cristina: Okay, yeah, maybe. Jack: Or are we just finding dinosaurs? There's some kind of unique nessie like creature, basically. Right. But why can it shoot a beam from its mouth? We gotta justify that. That's the radiation we had justified size. I guess more ancient dinosaurs than the dinosaurs were used. So that's really what's happening. Cristina: Yeah. Jack: And because of that it was de down. And because of that, like it hibernates deeper down in the planet. Cristina: But we can hear it through Russia because they have that giant hole in the ground that makes really spooky sounds. Maybe it's just the dinosaurs. Jack: Maybe they don't sleep underground. Cristina: What? Jack: Maybe they sleep and live underground. And this is one of many. And they're always down there. Cristina: Yes. Jack: And what we hear through the hole. Cristina: Is that they're just. They live down there and it's radiated. Jack: And then we find. No, they don't even have to be radiated. The size, it just works different down there. Cristina: Okay. It's not radiation. Jack: Yeah. But they. They live around lava and immense pressure. Cristina: So maybe where does the beams come from? Jack: I don't know. I don't know. Maybe it's kind of like they're doing something through the. They learn, they evolve naturally. Being able to do a combination of something with air the way that that crab underwater does that make a small explosion. Cristina: Seriously, it's just. It's. There's some scientific reason. Jack: Scientific reason why it can shoot out lasers. Yeah. If we think about like a way to first create an air funnel. Maybe you have some sort of internal system that works like gills but for oxygen. So that you can open and suck in air from one side as you're simultaneously pumping the air out through a more narrow air. Cristina: So radiation has nothing to do with it? No, that's just the story Japan believes because of what we said we were doing. Yes, they put the scientific experiment to it. That's part of the story because that's the story they were told. But we're just lying. Jack: Or you're right and it is radiation. But then it happened by accident. Yes, and. But no, it wouldn't make sense. How did this creature so immediately after. Cristina: They'Re attacking die? Jack: I mean there's a ten year period. Well, we'll say the nine year period. We'll say a movie started being made a year after the events at earliest and the movie got put out a year later. So two year gap. So two years before it would have had to happen. So there would have been only seven years for that lizard to go from as small as it was to as big as it was. It wouldn't happen. The only way would be if this thing was growing for infinities. Cristina: Yes, it already has to be that big. Jack: It already had to be that big for many, many, many, many year. Hundreds of years maybe. Cristina: So they found it. They found it 00:35:00 Cristina: and then it died. Jack: Yeah. So it's from the center of the earth. It comes out here and whatever trick it could do. But again. Okay, wait, we're trying to figure out this trick. Right? So it has some gill like system. It should in theory be able to open some thing to pull in air and have a different where it's shooting the fire from. Should have some kind of like narrower airway so that if you're pulling in twice the amount of air then you have some sort of a pump and you could shoot out the air continuously. Then that's solid. You could. Cristina: You somehow makes lasers. The air turns and say lasers. Jack: Well, the laser wouldn't exactly be a laser. Maybe that's just a weird depiction and it's not like a lightsaber. Maybe it's more like fire. Cristina: Okay. Like a dragon. Jack: Like a dragon. And so it's breathing this in and kind of like a venomous snake that can spit out this kind of thing onto you or something like that. Maybe. Cristina: Why wasn't Godzilla just a story about a dragon? Because we have so many dragon stories. Why wasn't this just a different dragon story? Jack: Maybe the Japanese don't Have fire breathing dragons? Maybe we have fire breathing dragons. Maybe that's a western thing. Cristina: Japan, I mean, China didn't have dragon that breath fire. Jack: I don't know. I have no idea. Cristina: Okay. Jack: Why you think it was What? Cristina: I don't know. Because like, wouldn't they just say it's a dragon that's attacking us and not some scientific experiment attacking us? Jack: Well, they think it happened after the bombs. Here would be the theory. Right. Grounding this a little farther. We dropped the bombs. Cristina: I thought they were the bombs that we dropped. Jack: Well, this is me adjusting. Okay, we dropped the bombs. No, they have to be the bombs. Yeah, but assuming I'm wrong, we dropped the bombs and the bomb woke the thing up. Cristina: Okay. Jack: It's the only time we've ever dropped these bombs. Ever. It's the only time nukes have been used on these areas that aren't just abandoned islands in the middle of nowhere, deserts that are uninhabited. We're dropping it where there's people and foliage. Cristina: I woke this ancient dinosaur up, and. Jack: It woke this ancient dinosaur up. Cristina: Okay. Jack: That could be why they, like, the bombs dropped. Then the thing happened. So that the. The whole story about the bombs. I bet Godzilla did not attack either one of those two places. What place in Japan did Godzilla attack? Tokyo. Cristina: Tokyo. Okay, that's random. Jack: I guess because it was like a real super mega area. We were just attacking normal civilian areas that had a base, I guess for control, it was military related, trying to calm them down or whatever the h*** we were trying to do. Tokyo? Yeah. So that takes place in Tokyo. So that's a possibility. One of two scenarios explains the attack of Godzilla on Tokyo. Either we dropped two bombs and woke something up. Cristina: Yes. Jack: Or these bombs were the lizards and they wandered off. Cristina: That could also be it. That means. Yeah, I don't know. Because like if we did wake up a lizard up, there was just one lizard. Jack: Maybe not. Maybe there was a bunch of lizards. Or maybe we knocked something down underground that allowed one of these already existing creatures from underneath. But we can go back to the original concept that they. That we, the United States, found a way to go down there and get these creatures that have always been down there. Because we do hear something when we hear down. No matter what, these creatures are underground. How we acquired them is now the question. We found out where they are. Cristina: They're underground. Jack: They're underground. Did they originally pop up in Japan? Or did we go get them probably through that hole in Russia, and then keep them? But how do we transport the biggest one? Cristina: Yes. Jack: Problem. We should have a base where we're finding them. Cristina: Alaska. Jack: Alaska is probably a really good place. There's a bunch of rural places out here. 51. 100. Yeah. Cristina: Area 51. Jack: Yeah. Just holes that go deep. And we just have access to pulling these things up and keeping them around the hole so we can throw them right back down if we don't need it. How are we going to dispose of this s***? Cristina: Yeah. Jack: You know, because we tried. Maybe we tried to dispose of some that went wrong. And that's why we have stories of some coming out of the water. Cristina: Okay. You know, 00:40:00 Cristina: and then still, like, any alien story could be pointed to this creature because it could be more than one creature that's down there. Like, they don't all have to look the same. Jack: Yeah. What are they eating if they all look the same? Cristina: Yeah. So, like, if they're like. If they're dinosaur like, I guess, which is very lizard like, so very alien like. Jack: Yeah. And it's definitely. There's lava if they go deep enough. But I don't think they're so deep. I think they're just deep enough that they don't normally get to us or ever. And water must be down there, too. They're ocean levels. Deep, deeper. Slightly deeper. They're slightly deeper. They're in the gaps of air underneath the ocean. And then we found ways. And we tell people, the normal civilians don't have access to the technology that can take us so deep to withstand that level of pressure. But the government's never going to tell us that it does. And it can easily get down there and it can access these creatures and get to them. Cristina: And then what? Just attack countries with them? Jack: But then this. Yeah. Like you said, one country has King Kong, one country has Godzilla. One country has this thing. One country has that thing. One country found it, used it. Other countries found out about it and figured out how to get more. So chances are we have maybe different countries have different size Godzillas. I got a really old Godzilla that's the size of this. Cristina: Okay. All those different ideas. Jack: I got a really huge moth. Cristina: Huge moth is Russian thing that they attack us with. Jack: Yeah. You know, anybody can have anything and they could be getting it from the same place. You just gotta have the technology to go get it and the ability to. Cristina: Restrain it, which I don't know if anyone does have that, though. I don't know. Jack: Then how do we stop the ones that were. We. We. Cristina: I think you can still kill them. I think killing them isn't like a hard thing to do. It's just like hiding the body and then making up stories to what actually happened. Jack: So you have to be able to control it. You can't just kill it. You got to kill it in the water. Cristina: Yeah. You have to kill it in a way that hide. Like, you gotta. You still have to, like. Jack: Fair enough. So then perhaps still like every alien. Cristina: Story where the government came by, asked a bunch of questions, told a lie about what actually happened, and like, I have a theory. Yeah. What? Jack: Maybe it was one. Cristina: Was one what? Jack: The first one caused small destruction as compared to the second one, the one that caused great destruction. They were both powerful. But what if the first one was Godzilla doing it? Little boy was Godzilla. Cristina: And the second one was to kill Godzilla. Jack: Was the. Kill Godzilla. The bomb. Cristina: Okay. Jack: What Godzilla was doing. We're testing it. We're seeing if Godzilla works. Cristina: Okay. Jack: And then it kept wandering, and we're like, how do we control it? Okay, here we go. Well, it worked. Gone. No proof. Cristina: Mmm. Jack: Two part system. It'll keep destroying more than a nuke can if you just let it keep going. Yes, they tested that on the first one. It'll do. Nuke levels of destruction. And until we decide to stop it, it'll keep going. Cristina: Mm. Jack: Can we stop it? Well, let's find out. Here we go. Boom. Cristina: Okay. Yeah. They have to get rid of it. Jack: They have to get rid of it. Maybe the government has the ability to drop things like this at random. Cristina: Crazy. And it's all the governments. Jack: Then many, many, many governments have the ability to drop some colossal creature onto other governments, onto other countries. Cristina: Yeah, to just attack. Jack: Or maybe not. Maybe it's just a few. Depends who has stories of disability. We're the only people who are like, oh, no, we can't. We control it. It's our thing. We call on that show, we want it. Of course we use it. In the middle of the ocean, nowhere, where nobody knows where the h*** people are. Like, oh, how did the Americans shoot down that boat all the way over there? And it's like, we don't need to. Cristina: Know, but we're still. We're still lying about what it's happening. Jack: Yeah, I bet. If we can't control it. No, man, that's a question, right? How do we. We don't have mind control. We're still trying to figure it out. Yeah, if we could control something that big, we'd be controlling humans long since. Cristina: But there's no way we can. Jack: There's no way we can. So we're not using it casually. That has to be Wrong. We're definitely lying about what happened. But I'm pretty sure we dropped a thing that caused nuke sized damage. Cristina: And then we used the nuke. Jack: And we used the 00:45:00 Jack: nuke to see if that could stop it. Now there's no proof that it ever existed. It's gone. Cristina: Yes. Jack: Evaporated the bones into nothing. Cristina: That could be it. Huh? Jack: Simple. Although I think bones would survive a nuke. They would just be crispy. I have no idea. Maybe if you're close enough, you get disintegrated into powder. Cristina: But like, even if you find the bones, am I still dinosaur bones? I don't know. Jack: Yeah, and that's why the wood. That's my point. Like, it would have to be at a point that it gets incinerated, Right? That's the only way that you have zero. Cristina: Zero proof. Jack: Zero proof. Okay. No, the bones would totally disappear. Cristina: So. Jack: Interesting. If this says the bones of a person would disappear, then the question is to go directly and do the size. How big would a bone have to. Cristina: Be to not disappear? Jack: To not disappear. Cristina: Okay. Jack: Okay. All right. So let's do some breakdowns here. Humans would get eviscerated into nothingness and cease to exist. See, even their bones, which are our thickest, densest part, Godzilla's bones. To scale appropriately to its size, maintain its weight, and be logical according to how gravity and whatnot works, it would be about 20 times thicker than a human bones. Cristina: It's pretty thick. Jack: Yes. Even then, at ground zero, it would be so obliterated into nothingness, vaporize into beyond dust, that there would be no evidence it ever existed. Well, a nuke would erase the existence of such a creature at ground zero impact, you make it the target. Boom. Gone. There's no evidence it ever existed. Cristina: So we could have released Godzilla onto Japan and then murdered the Godzilla that we made? Jack: Yes. We didn't make Godzilla. Cristina: Oh yeah, we freed Godzilla, released Godzilla out to Japan, then killed it. Then they made a movie about it. Jack: Yes. Yes. The argument would be that we dropped a Godzilla on Hiroshima on August 9, 1945. And three days later, in Nagasaki in August 9 on 1945, we dropped a nuke to get rid of it, testing our entire scenario. And it worked. And nobody has f***** with us since? Cristina: I guess so. Except everyone keeps making bombs. Jack: Yes. Because they know how to stop it. Cristina: Yes, I guess so. Because they saw that we were able to stop it. Jack: Interesting. Fascinating. Cristina: So all of those bombs are not Nobody's using? Jack: Nope, nobody's Just a single one. Cristina: And also, it's just too Many. Why would you need that? More than one. They're probably country. Jack: Yeah. These are probably controlled nukes to create small blast areas with the same intense energy in the small area. So if you have a lot, you're not causing widespread destruction. Nobody has shot a nuke at anybody anymore. We're waiting. Cristina: For what? For these monsters pop up. Jack: Yes. And we're efficientizing them. We're always making it more efficient. Knowing somebody might have one of these. Cristina: Things, someone might release one. That's the real danger. Jack: Interesting. Cristina: Whoa. That's so crazy. Because we have the most nukes, but we're the one with the obvious amount of creatures. Most likely, too. Jack: Well, we're not. Cristina: I think we are. Jack: We have so many. Oh, so we're just like you guys. Couldn't release one on us for any reason. We'll drop a nuke instantly. Cristina: I think we also are protecting ourselves from our own monsters. Jack: Our monsters. Their release of their monsters on us. Well, now, here's something interesting. We would be screwed in an attack. Because we're thinking a couple of episodes ago, we're doing where would we get attacked through, right? And like, if. What would we do in a scenario like that? We didn't consider something like this. But if something like this were to happen, the most likely location to drop it off would be in the ocean and let it come to us. So they don't have to put themselves in danger. So they would just get close, but they wouldn't hover over our airspace. We drop it in the ocean near us, and it would find land in our direction. Coasts would be f***** up. The coasts are the way in for whatever creatures dropped in the water near us and for land. Cristina: But why are we dropping creatures in the water? Jack: War. What if we're invading the United States? Cristina: We, The United States? Jack: No, like, people. Humans. Oh, humans are invading the United 00:50:00 Jack: States. Cristina: Oh, okay. Jack: So Russia is like, yeah, let's attack. What if that's what's happening near Alaska right now? And they're hanging out by the water. Cristina: So that we could throw our monster in the water? I don't know. Jack: They've got their monster. Cristina: Oh, okay. Jack: There's ships and planes. They're surveying our area consistently. They've probably got their creature underwater in some giant cage, and it's probably imprisoned, tied up in some way, and they're just planning and testing to release it. And they could just release it and leave. They don't have to do anything. One day they just leave. A couple of hours later. A couple of days later, something starts attacking Alaska. Cristina: Okay. Jack: I don't know how Canada is going to protect itself, but I guess Canada would be screwed here too. Cristina: They got their own monsters, Hopefully. Jack: They got their own monsters. Hopefully. Unless the point is that Canada doesn't have a way to defend itself. And the only way would be for us to start nuking Canada to kill the creature. Cristina: That's crazy. Jack: Which would create an interesting problem. Would we do it? Cristina: I guess that's why we got so much nukes. Jack: I think maybe that's also why our least defended area is the only access point. Because the least amount of people are around the Alaskan area. It's a transport point, but there are the least amount of people in Alaska. If we had to drop a nuke, it would be an easier decision than if it came up through New York City. Cristina: Okay, you get my point? Yeah. Jack: So we make that the easiest attack point, and that's the only likely placer probably to go. Because then we would just start bombing them or dropping our own creatures on them. So then they have to release it over there so that by the time it gets to the water, I mean, it gets to land, starts destroying things locally, we have enough time to react and attack it before it leaves Alaska. And we never have to catch Canada with our nukes. Maybe that's strategic. Cristina: Weird. Jack: But yes, would make sense and would keep the rest of the United States safe. Over. Militarize. All of it. Agree with Canada. We're going to keep that land mass up there and we're going to make it the least defended. You defend your borders like a. But we can nuke that. If they ever drop a creature. Cristina: Do we have creatures on every border then? Jack: Like, we don't. We don't know. We just know they might be dropping a creature on us and that's why they're hovering over there. Cristina: But they are not in Mexico just getting ready to attack us. Jack: Interesting. You think? I mean, that would make sense. Then that would actually explain the wall a little better. Cristina: Yeah, maybe. Jack: Maybe the wall's point was to stop these creatures. Because the creature might not just be destroying for no reason. It's gonna avoid crap. Cristina: Mm. Jack: It's a creature. If you're not controlling it, that's just doing random s***. You build the wall, it might not even try to go over. It might turn away and go somewhere else. Cristina: Interesting. You know, just then, if we're thinking about that, like, maybe all the walls, but then, like, China has walls. Jack: China has walls. They've been doing it since whatever century. Cristina: We know them because the dragons. So like who had the dragons that was attacking China that they decided, let's build some walls, dude. Jack: Even this really ancient place we were researching, the Indian place, Dwarf or whatever from 9,000 BC, had giant double layered walls surrounding them in the water too. Cristina: And it wasn't even just the land that they were protecting. Even the waterside, man. Jack: You know what's crazy, dude? We've also seen many people were f****** with Camaras. The text said so much about chimeras. Cristina: I don't know because I thought these were natural creatures. But then if you start talking about chimeras. That's not natural. Jack: That's not natural. Unless it's creatures we're seeing now are the creatures from back then that they were f****** with. And that's why it would have these abilities. It would be a creature that is some over like leftover relic, ancient scientific experiment. It's not us like our experiment. It had to get to think about the two problems we were trying to solve earlier. How does it have these abilities? Well, we had to make it. How is it its size? No, I had to age to that point. Cristina: Yes. Jack: Solution. It was made and it aged to that point. What does that tell us? It had to be made long ago. Cristina: Okay, One of these ancient civilizations. Jack: And maybe there's a bunch of. Maybe they're everywhere. Some civilizations go underground. Some civilizations can move things to other planets. Maybe us in current day looking at the moon, saw some s*** we shouldn't have because we know there's theories about the other side of the moon, the dark side of 00:55:00 Jack: the moon, which isn't dark because it gets light, but we don't see it. And like, maybe there's something out there. Maybe that's the reason China wanted the return to that side of the moon. Maybe what we saw was like, oh, crap, we don't want to wake that thing up. Or we saw civilization that was like, you guys don't talk about seeing space because they got their creature, whatever the crap might be. Maybe there's creatures like that everywhere, everywhere. And we're just finding them. Some civilizations went extinct. Cristina: So all these fairy tale like creatures that are monsters are not really monsters at all. But then would we put like you said, the Loch Ness monster, And then there's vampires, werewolves, all those other creatures. The Ninja Turtles. No, whatever. Chupacabra. They're like all just ancient experiments. Jack: No, not all ancient experiments, but they're all scientifically explainable. Just like adrenochrome could be scientifically explained to some degree. We don't know what causes all these different things. But I think. I think none of it is magic. And I think we do have maybe current day proof of weird s***. Things we have seen that more than one individual has seen. And there's some kind of proof, whether it be current day photos and things that aren't considered fiction. Nessie's a weird one. Some ancient other kind of creature that. No, it has to be from the past. Everybody assumes has to be. Scientists are like whatever creatures is. Resembles this thing from way long ago. Except it would have had to be even longer ago. Then Dwarka and then the Elysians. It had to be from like Elio's time. Cristina: Okay, Elio. Was he around dinosaurs? Jack: Am I saying that wrong? What the h*** was his name? Loi. Cristina: Loi. Jack: Loi. It could have been from like Loi's time, but still, that's. No, it had to be from millions of years ago. That's a problem. So it would have still even outdated. Loi. No, if 3 million years ago isn't. It still has to be like 150 million years ago. 3 million isn't that long ago compared to a creature that Nessie looks like. So maybe there's crap so long ago has nothing to do with any of those people. Cristina: Yes. Jack: Technology so ancient, that's crazy. Cristina: If it's still technology evolved, I guess. Jack: It would have continued to evolve, you. Cristina: Know, But I don't know. I don't know. Jack: It could have. So somehow. Somehow science was involved in the making of this thing. Cristina: Mm. Jack: Because still. How are you f****** doing it, then? Cristina: Again. Jack: Again, physiologically. I tried to explain it physiologically. Those creatures to shoot things. We know crabs can make explosions into grounds. Really specific ones. Or. I think it's a shrimp or something. And so that's. Some creatures have superpower. Like things spit acid out or whatever. Cristina: Yes. Jack: And. Or some, you know, throw smoke out or whatever ink out. If you can do some kind of air pressure thing where you suck in twice the amount that you push out, then you can push out through a smaller airway, creating more of a pressure. Because more air through a smaller airway goes faster. You get some range. And if you can have some kind of ignition and put into that air that's moving through some kind of flammable air you throw in, there's gas, some flammable gas you throw into the air that you're pushing out, then you can create some kind of flamethrower like thing. Cristina: Okay. Jack: And if it shoots out with enough pressure, the closer to your mouth it is, the more like A laser beam it would be. And the further away, the more like regular, you know, it's less pressure. Farther off, it's more like fire far. So maybe you can get a nice stream that looks like a beam. If your size is big enough from our eyes. If you shot a fire beam and it was the length of like 30 buildings at the peak of your mouth, it's gonna look like a straight out beam, not like a fire blast. Right. Because you're shooting. Because it's closer to whatever spot you're shooting it from. Cristina: Okay. Jack: It's gonna be closer to the shape of the airway you're pushing the air through. Took it look like a beam. There could be explanations all this weird. So what's our landed conclusion? That there's creatures at the center of the earth that have aged for who knows how long. Cristina: Yeah. Jack: Countries have found them, some countries have captured them. And likely evidence of this is that Hiroshima had something called the little boy dropped off that we think is a nuke. But it might have been Godzilla and it created nuclear sized destruction. And that three days later after it strolled off, we threw an actual nuke called Fat man to evaporate Godzilla and see if that could work. And it did. And ever since there has been prepared. Everybody's been preparing, Everybody's been making bombs, everybody's been 01:00:00 Jack: making nukes everywhere. All at the same time, just in case, just for the day. Cristina: That makes sense. Jack: And when people are cryptic instead of just saying nukes. So just saying I'll bomb you. When somebody like the North Korean leader is like, I got a present for you. And he says that to Trump, what he's talking about is, you know, you saw the creature. I show you my creature. I got that for you. Cristina: That's weird. Jack: And leaders know, but people don't. Cristina: Leaders are showing each other their creature. Interesting. Because they don't have to show anyone. But they could. Jack: They could, they could, they could. And people aren't gonna talk. Cristina: Yeah. Weird. Okay. Jack: Yeah. Cristina: Trump knows about him. Jack: Maybe a bunch. No, Trump would immediately talk. I think Trump wouldn't be able to hold it. I think he would just tell the world in excitement. Cristina: So you don't think he was told yet? Jack: I don't know. Maybe he was. Maybe what we see and what he is are two different things. Who knows? Anyways, we have solved the possibility. So what's the consensus? Is Godzilla real? I, I only if the government has to show us everything because they're doing some cahoots. Cristina: That's the whole point. Yes. The government is just Showing us things that are real. Jack: Yeah. So if that's the case, then Godzilla is real. Yes, because they have to show us everything. Cristina: Yeah. Jack: And then that would explain the proof behind Godzilla being real. Cristina: Because the government showed it to us. Jack: The government showed it to us because. Cristina: Obviously they run Hollywood. Jack: Yes. And history shows that, yes, there was definitely some bombs dropped and people saw a lizard in Tokyo. You know, so we got bombs, we got movies, we got evidence everywhere that something happened that they're not telling us. Cristina: But they are telling us just through movies. Okay. Yep. Jack: And the correct story is In August 6, 1945, Godzilla was released on Hiroshima. Godzilla wandered the island past Tokyo and got to Nagasaki, where he was finally nuked. Cristina: Yes. That is the story. The unofficial true story. Jack: That is the unofficial true story of Godzilla. Okay. I'm glad you guys made it with us through this to discover what really happened here. This was important. Cristina: It was. Jack: We've established details that matter to the people of Earth, and now we know true military capabilities of a lot of countries. It's way worse than a nuke. You wouldn't think so, but if you don't have to keep firing and you can just release a thing that could only be killed if you nuke your own people. Cristina: Yeah, that's pretty crazy. Jack: Yeah, that goes hard. Cristina: That goes hard. Jack: It's just gonna keep destroying until you nuke it. Guys, you got to nuke your own people. Enjoy. Explain that to your civilians later. Cristina: Yep. It's. It's. It's what's happening. Jack: It's what's happening. Cristina: It happened. Jack: Fire. That's crazy. That's such a solid military tactic. I guess that's why bioweapons are really overpowered. You want people to have to attack their own people. That's winning a war. Cristina: That is insane. Jack: That's. Yeah, you won. If you gotta start attacking your own people, whoever did that to you, they won. That's fire. They don't have to worry about themselves anymore. You're too distracted dealing with you crazy. Cristina: Mm. Jack: Bioweapons. Resident Evil had the right idea. Cristina: Again, bioweapons. Jack: The way to go. Anyways, if you guys think that we missed something important here that should have happened as a natural development of Godzilla or some other proof that maybe exists. Cristina: In the world 100% right that we're right. Jack: If you can help us justify this, let us know. Reach out to us. You could do that on our socials, at just convo pod, on Tik Tok, Instagram, on X, and on Facebook, wherever. Just type our name. Cristina: You'll find everywhere. Jack: Yeah. Cristina: Remember to subscribe. Right. And review the show. Jack: Yes. And word of mouth is really overpowered. Tell everybody about the program and the fact that we have absolutely given. Given you nothing but solid fact and proof that Godzilla was real and a timeline that you could throw in people's faces and show them, look, this is proof. And when they're like, you're using a weird kind of confirmation bias, looking for evidence to prove your argument instead of disprove it, you tell them what is proof of your beliefs. And they're going to be like, good point. But you're being absurd. And you're going to say, I can back these thoughts up with science. Can you? And that argument is gonna win. Cristina: Okay. Jack: Because they're gonna 01:05:00 Jack: be like, I can't. Even if they know inherently, it might make more sense. In your total argument, you've used nothing but science. Even if applying it only where. Only where very convenient. And ignoring the areas that would make it unconvenient, you'd be the only one in the conversation with science. Cristina: Ridiculous. Okay. This has been the Rambling Podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Jack: Bye. Cristina: Good morning. Good morning. This podcast is hosted by Cristina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by great dots.in fox art by 0lupo and logo by Seth McAllister with social media managed by Amber Black. 01:06:20

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October 05, 2024

Rambling 292: The Lost City of Dwarka

October 05, 2024/ GreyThoughts.Info

What is the ancient city of Dwarka? What is known of it? What is it no longer around? The duo comb through what is known of a lost ancient city found beneath the ocean by researchers. From its structures to its technology and its ultimate downfall, no stone is left unturned. What is discovered adds a new layer to what we know about ancient civilizations.

+Episode Details

Ancient City
Advanced Technology
Sonar Scanning
Historical Records
Solar Energy
Flood Prevention
Mysterious War

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

+Transcript

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And this is a show where we ground humanity's most baffling and absurd ideas. Or is it absurd and baffling ideas? One of those two something there, right?

Cristina: Baffling, absurd ideas.

Jack: Like how world's most absurd and baffling ideas. No, it's actually that order. At least we usually do most absurd and baffling ideas, not baffling and absurd. Although it doesn't really matter. No, because they're both baffling. Like, wow, how jarring and absurd. Like, this is crazy.

Cristina: This is crazy.

Jack: Yeah, for the most part, it's very crazy. Anyways, we have, as of late, been kind of diving in and out, looking at random crap, and that has been connecting dots for us by looking in different directions and random crap associates back to all the previous crap. Because everything in the universe seems to be one giant megastructure. All lines connect.

Cristina: Yes. It's just hard connecting them. But like, with enough information.

Jack: Yeah, with enough information, all the dots eventually come together. But I've been looking around and I found something interesting that, weirdly enough, has not come up before, although could be very relevant, actually is really relevant. I made sure it was relevant.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: So apparently there isn't just the Persian Gulf oasis that is underwater and abandoned, but rather other locations that similarly exist underwater abandoned. We've seen, you know, trails, but it's usually associated with the Elysians.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like if we look at the path in Bimini going straight down to the Atlantic Ocean in the direction of the suspected location of their current home, and the sculptures and statues and things in that direction, they kind of just line up with the Elysians.

Cristina: Yeah, like the lion statues and stuff.

Jack: Yes. And pyramids down there and all the usual kind of crap. Right. Now, interesting enough looking in other locations and kind of combing through random data, I've come across a couple of other places that fit these suits but aren't related to the Elysians. Not directly. Not that the Elysians built it. They related to the Elysians in a different kind of way. Which we'll get to.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And so I did some deep dives, I read some books, I looked through some articles and some research papers, and I've put together some of the information on one of these locations. We're going to go through all of these locations eventually.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But one of these locations stuck out to me very, very specifically. And hopefully when we go to the other ones, this will enlighten them. The place we're going to be talking about is called Dwarka.

Cristina: Where's Dwarka?

Jack: Dwarka is a sunken city off the coast of India.

Cristina: Oh, my gosh. Okay, so there's a bunch of cities underwater. That's what you're saying?

Jack: There's a bunch of cities underwater. Wow. Now, Dwarka is first mentioned in some scripture related to some of those we know now are fairies. But yeah, related to scripture.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And the Indians have all the scriptures about these deities that turn out to just be part of the fairy cluster. But we do have some other mentions starting all the way in the year 300 BC. Now, I went through all of this, but there were a group of people who were already putting this information together. And so I went through their collective works that kind of unpacked all of these other works that exist throughout history and time. So we're going to be looking at some specific texts, some research papers and some collections.

Cristina: What's the name of the place?

Jack: Dwarka. Now, the things we'll be looking at are the Lost City of Dwarka by S.R. rowe. Marine archaeology of the Indian Ocean Countries, edited by S.R. rowe. Excavations of Dwarka by H.D. sankalia. The Archaeology of Bet Dwarka by A.S. ghaur and Sundarash. And Archaeological Survey of India Reports, which is a collection by various individuals and they all use research with sonar, deep dives, they have excavations happening down there. They have a bunch of random all. All the different crap you can imagine on top of all the different mentions of text that existed and both public records that existed in the past and of scripture that has been written relative to this place. So all of the above is in these. And so I went through their works and as I was going through their works, I was cross referencing by going and looking at the original thing that they're talking about to make sure they're not putting their own twist on things. But I use these as a guide ultimately.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Now, there's a lot going on here. And I'll tell you what is included inside of these texts so you have some idea of how we know the things we know.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Within all of the research, we have archaeological findings, we have marine exploration data, we have underwater scans, we have, which also includes like sub bottom profiling and scans of below water level. That's basically what that is. We're getting scans of what's directly over the and scan. Not over the water, over the ground, underneath the water. And then scans of what's beneath the ground.

Cristina: Beneath the ground?

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: There will be diving expedition reports, artifact documentations which include stone anchors, pottery and actual structures that have been seen, located and scanned. Carbon dating maps of the city and layout reconstructions.

Cristina: Cool.

Jack: Based on old texts, geological and environmental studies, comparative studies with other ancient cities, cultural and trade connections to the region, non religious historical records and interpretations of religious records, and scholarly analysis of the scripture and inscriptions for historical correlation.

Cristina: Deep dive crazy. That's mad info on this city.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. People have been trying to figure it out. If we use all of that data and what we personally know, that is not considered part of the canon narrative because you got to cross reference such a plethora of data, you're going to see how this starts to form into a very cohesive image. So let's begin. Now, basically, this was described as one of the most advanced cities to have ever existed. And we know like, that's a huge statement considering the Egyptians existed, the Greek existed, the Mayans existed.

Cristina: And how old is this supposed to be? As old as those or older.

Jack: So weirdly enough, we know that the Egyptian and the Mayan are no older than 6000 BCE. They were given things provided by the Elysians in order to catch up in the first place.

Cristina: Around the same time around.

Jack: Well, no, I believe it was first the Egyptians and then the Mayans much later. But this city is actually 9,000 BCE, which gets way close to the first mention of Jehovah ever. 12,000 BCE. Fascinating. Yeah. This is older than Maya and Egypt and actually even older than Greece.

Cristina: That's crazy. That is old.

Jack: And claiming to be one of the most advanced cities ever. Now this is obviously without the. The knowing of these other locations, how would they know? They could totally have just been. It's the most advanced at this point. And then later these mega cities arrive. So by reference point, they wouldn't have known. And it could have been without knowing about the Aletians, they could have definitely 100% been the most advanced. And then later more advanced civilizations came to be. This is located on the western coast of India, near modern day Gujarat. Gujarat. And this emerged in the Gulf of Combat, which is close to the present day city of Dwarka, which is a city of the same name. There's a currently Dwarka.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And there's this ancient Dwarka that's underwater. That's underwater. And again, constructed about 9,000 BCE older than that, roughly According to archaeological evidence.

Cristina: Was it always underwater though? Like does. Did something happen that put it underwater or something?

Jack: Put it underwater? Yes.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: It was not always underwater. Now we're just gonna break down how advanced the city was. For the most part, we're gonna talk about the details of the city and just kind of inform people on what the city kind of was like. Now keep in mind everything that's being cross referenced to prove this. So first of all, the city had a grid type of layout. So it has a grid layout and text described that this had wide roads, structured grid system, advanced urban planning, and was efficiently distributed to kind of look like a modern day city. Now this is proved by sonar scans that we can see collections of structures together with gaps in the middle that if you were to map it out, would essentially just be roads, streets, straight shot streets, because collections of structures would be to either side and then emptiness straight down the middle and Sounds pretty.

Cristina: Advanced for the past. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jack: And it would have, you know, would like create blocks. Basically it would just create city style blocks in a like literal grid. Squares. It's just squares. So in theory, you could just walk around a block and you moved a square and in the block itself, many different types of structures of different sizes, of different widths, of different heights. Interesting design. According to texts, there are zoned districts. So the city was divided into sections for residential, commercial, governmental use, suggesting highly organized zoning, which could be supported by the fact that we do see the city blocks. Additionally, in the scans, you also see collections of different sizes of buildings. So there'll be many small structures in this area all together, rather than one really small, one really big one. You know, it'll be a lot of really small ones and then over there a lot of really big ones. That's kind of showing that there was at least correlation between the structures. Maybe this was residential and houses, or maybe those buildings were where they lived and these were all government buildings that were the smaller ones.

Cristina: Okay, yeah.

Jack: So there was a distribution according to size and width, which could support the idea of zones, allowing for things to work. There was also in the very center of the town, what appears to be a sort of. How do I explain all the roads ultimately lead to a circular center, which could be the market, based on everything else leading in that direction, which happens to be next to one of the oddest shapes. Not oddest shapes, but oddest collection of buildings that don't kind of match anything on the outskirts, which would assume residents lived on the outskirts and towards the center was the market. And the government things.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: As well as possible recreational areas, they had multiple gates and entrances to the city.

Cristina: There's a lot there, like, that's still there too. The gates, like, how much can they actually see from the scans? Or this is part of the.

Jack: All of the above. Okay.

Cristina: Just combining all the information.

Jack: This is combining all the information. I'm not going to break down what was what in crazy detail because we would never make it through this. But. And where it matters, I'm going to tell you. You don't have to ask about it. I will tell you specifically what we do see when it matters. But strategic gates at different points of entry provided access to the city while enhancing security and traffic flow. So there was ways in and out through different entrances and exits. A comprehensive large scale wall has been caught on sonar. On sonar. Surrounding the entire city. Well, so a quite large wall, the size undefined, but definitely could be easily over 30ft tall, surrounding the entire city. And then the gates are on this like giant wall, allowing for entrances, roads. The empty gaps that we would believe are roads kind of seem to go straight into where the gap in the wall would be, which would suggest that is the gate itself.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: So they definitely had the city protected from the outside. Maybe you needed kind of passes to come in and out. Especially if this is such an advanced layout of a city. Everybody else who didn't have the technology was not gonna scale the wall. And these are poor people walking in. Not poor people, but unadvanced people.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Coming to this mega, super futuristic, comparatively place. Now, in the text, it suggested that there were grand palaces, so palaces made of gold and precious metals, which would suggest a monumental architectural ability with reinforced designs in the buildings themselves. Now, sonar scans can't actually detect the specific materials the structures were constructed with, but marine archaeological dives near the site have located all the materials mentioned.

Cristina: Really?

Jack: They can't prove any structure was made.

Cristina: Of these materials, but those materials are there.

Jack: All the materials mentioned are there.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: So at least they had the ability to create the materials. That seems accurate. The idea of having an entire building made of these materials kind of immediately becomes questionable because how would you even source all of these materials in high quantities enough to make your city out of it?

Jack: That's where it kind of gets iffy. And it relies a lot on, well, the tech save. Like that's about as far as we can really honestly prove other than, well, they had the materials. We don't know if the buildings were made out of the materials.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Water management and engineering was fascinating. In this place, they had canals, waterways. And descriptions mentioned that the canals were running through the city potentially for transportation, irrigation and water supply. Fascinating that transportation is one of them, because it's not transportation of water. Water supply is part of it.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But the canals were used to navigate through the city as well. A counter to roads.

Cristina: Oh, that's cool.

Jack: Venice, Italy, essentially.

Cristina: Yeah, but they had roads too.

Jack: Yes, they had both. Venice has both. It's not just water, but is it.

Cristina: Mostly water or is it equal parts water and road?

Jack: It's definitely way less water. Navigation, it was way more roads and, like, just a few canals here and there that you could use for navigation.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But it's. It was there, which was an interesting idea to just that they also included this. Now, sonar scans have confirmed this alongside, detecting numerous thinner structures deeper than the canals themselves, and the waterways that scatter in every direction beneath the city. So there's the canals on the surface of the city. And then scans into this through the surface get you to what seems to be smaller structures going in every possible direction, which would suggest localized distribution of water to all structures within the city.

Cristina: That is crazy. That's crazy. Advanced.

Jack: Crazy advanced. Way more advanced than we would think for something 9,000 BC, which is 11,000 years ago.

Cristina: Whoa. How.

Jack: Crazy. So those are likely thin pipes underneath the canals which are delivered in the water. Now, reservoirs are said to be in the city. They're mentioned in all the texts that the city had large reservoirs ensuring a stable water supply, which would indicate advanced hydraulic engineering as well, in order to distribute it. Now, sonar scans can't actually confirm this, although large anomalous shaped gaps within random parts of the city suggest these might have been reservoir. They're just weird gaps on the surface and structures are built around them, and they're not of any specific shape, but they're just holes.

Cristina: So the best guess.

Jack: The best guess would be that those would have been the reservoir. If so, the city might have been selected specifically because of the reservoirs. So they chose this location to build the city because they had had places where they could naturally collect clean water.

Cristina: Nice.

Jack: Now we get into something a little more interesting. The flood prevention systems. This is going to come in very handy later.

Cristina: What?

Jack: Yeah. Now, flood prevention systems are described as protecting Dwarka from floods, suggesting an early form of flood defense, or levees. Right. Scans show some distance far from the city, like away from the city walls themselves. Deeper down, thicker than the city walls. A second set of shorter perimeter walls with connecting canals and unknown structures surrounding them likely Water pumps to drain the water out of the city.

Cristina: That's crazy. What happened.

Jack: This also suggests the possibility of flooding being a real issue they faced. So they built ways to counteract it.

Cristina: But it wasn't enough for whatever happened to them.

Jack: You think that a flood took them out?

Cristina: I don't know. It's hard to imagine what happened to them if they were already prepared based.

Jack: On all the technology we're talking about. Flooding is not what took them out. They have everything in measure. You know, the colossal size of the flood. That would have to catch them off guard with this level of technology.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And even then, they're ready to. If their structures are as strong and hard as they claim. The floods weren't gonna take them out. The floods weren't gonna remove them in any manner, shape, or form, so nothing was gonna happen. You know, go to the top of your buildings, and we'll drain the city.

Cristina: But something happened to them.

Jack: Yeah, I'm gonna get to that.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Now, building materials. Here's where it gets kind of iffy and hard to believe. Golden towers is a claim. Within the texts. Oh, palaces with golden towers were mentioned, possibly indicating advanced metallurgy and material strengthening techniques, which we can find the materials again, but we can't prove what the structures are made out of. It simply can't be proven, and it kind of exists in the text almost exclusively. Acquired materials from archaeological dives does in fact suggest dense reinforced gold. But this is actually. When it comes to gold in particular, it's kind of easy to do this with a lot of primitive techniques. We don't need particularly advanced anything. If we can create heat enough to melt other metals and mix them with. With the gold, that would dodge the need for any kind of advance, anything. Enough heat. You could just throw iron into the gold. You'll dilute the gold a little, but it'll still be gold. Yeah, and it'll be stronger. So it's not the. You don't need rocket science. Now the question is, what kind of reinforcement? None of the ones we found are particularly astounding when it comes to gold. There are many other materials that are astounding that probably shouldn't have existed at that point, but the gold wasn't one of them. So assuming these towers were made of gold. Well, you didn't do anything too impressive. And also, what the h*** would even be the benefit?

Cristina: Yes, you know, this is pretty.

Jack: Yes, it's pretty. But on the flip side, if you're so advanced, then you leave the realm of danger, especially with your walls. Being so defensive. And you land that. Why not make things look beautiful?

Cristina: Put a tower.

Jack: Why not?

Cristina: I guess you're not afraid of your neighbors, but then you have a. I don't know. Well, you're the most advanced as far as you know. As far as you know? Yeah.

Jack: Like, what do you. A couple of people with some sticks and rocks are gonna come and take your metal golden building. How?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Additional materials include crystals and precious stones. Gemstones adorn buildings, which could indicate knowledge of decorative stone working. And again, more reinforced materials. Although can't be proven purely within the texts. No amount of sonar or archaeological dive.

Cristina: Has proven this, so they haven't found any of that.

Jack: Well, we can't prove that the buildings are made with gemstones. Yeah, we'd have to go to that level of depth underneath the ground and look at the building. We'd have to excavate the whole city out of under the water. Under the water's dirt. Oh, we'd have to pull the city out of under the water's dirt in order to look at the buildings. The problem is the city sank and crap fell over the city. The city is not just underwater. It's under dirt. We can't look at the city.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: That's why scams are so important. But because of this, we can't tell what the decorations look like, what metals are made out of. When we're doing dives, we're diving and reaching the bottom and touching dirt on top of the city, and that's where we're finding the materials we locate. We would have to drill into the dirt to reach the buildings underneath us. Now, again, no amount of archaeological diving or sonar scans could prove that the buildings are decorated with gemstones. We can find the gemstones.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: We don't know what the buildings have on them, though, so only really excavating the city would prove this. Now, durable foundation. Coastal buildings suggest strong foundations, you know, to resist the sea's impact, in the case of storms, to resist flooding and all this kind of crap. So it would require innovative underwater construction techniques if you're on the coast. And the fact that they had walls for flooding proves that water was a problem. Sonar does confirm that below the city, there are additional structures almost always tied directly to buildings and canals.

Cristina: Okay, that's more water protection.

Jack: More water protection. This is assuring the buildings themselves aren't gonna have their foundation erode and fall. So they didn't just build up, they built down.

Cristina: That's pretty advanced. Oh, my God.

Jack: Pretty advanced and pretty deep down. If you're trying to stop a building from tilting or something, which would suggest, you know, additional reinforcement to withstand in a case of a flood overcoming the city walls. Impressive. Additionally, this. This leans into some really more advanced engineering. There are mentions within the text of earthquake resistant structures.

Cristina: Earthquake as well.

Jack: Yeah. So Texan implies that structures could survive natural disasters of all sorts, including seismic resistant architecture to withstand earthquakes and strong winds. Swaying buildings. How the h*** are they hard metals and swaying?

Cristina: They can tell that the swaying from the scans as well.

Jack: This is text.

Cristina: Oh, that's the text. Okay. That's crazy. That's crazy though.

Jack: Yeah. They can't tell that they can sway. Nothing can sway underneath. Tons and tons and tons and tons and tons of dirt.

Cristina: Dirt and water. That's crazy.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Okay. Whoa.

Jack: But if this is the case, then it would suggest layered construction. So that means beams on top of beams on top of beams that aren't a singular beam so that they can move out of each other's place and instead of a giant wind, snap the thing. But also, if you have a giant metal building, no amount of wind is gonna f****** do anything to that.

Cristina: So you think the text is wrong?

Jack: Well, no, I'm sure they had different kinds of structures.

Cristina: Overall, I guess it's all pretty advanced. Whether it's swaying or not swaying. Like it's. It's kind of crazy.

Jack: Yeah, it's. It does definitely hint to at least our level of technology. Every. Minus giant metal buildings. We do not have the resources. If they did, how. Where the h*** did you acquire this to make entire towers. Skyscrapers that are one solid block. How the f*** would you have done it? The only way would have been to melt steel all the way up there onto the existing steel framework and keep doing that progressively up to make it one giant chunk. Weird. But other than that, you had buildings that were composed of multiple pieces to allow swaying. An earthquake is not gonna shatter a giant steel building. No amount of wind is even gonna push that slightly. But there's no way all their buildings were like that. Those had to be special buildings.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: You know, you're burning a lot of resources. Yeah. You're destroy you. You. You're wasting material just to make one of those. So you would need all kinds of buildings in order to have a city.

Cristina: Unless they're also known for having mines nearby as well or something.

Jack: I'm sure most of this was mines. And there's no amount of mine. A single mining operation with hundreds of mines would get you one building. Maybe.

Cristina: Maybe. Okay.

Jack: Skyscrapers. Nah, it would get you one, dude.

Cristina: But they described having a tower.

Jack: At least many towers. Oh, many towers and many towers made of different materials, but many of them were solid, which is like how. How the h***. Oh, okay, so you used everything you had and there was nothing left?

Cristina: Everything and more. They were seven. Trading with a bunch of people too.

Jack: Yes. They must have been trained. With this level of technology, it's easy to believe that they were traveling great distances with some and delivering things to themselves.

Cristina: That's the only way. That's crazy.

Jack: Now, the city also had public spaces and temples. This is all mentioned within the text. And a lot of this could actually be seen on scans. Temples were described as aligned with celestial bodies, indicating knowledge of astronomy and its incorporation into building orientation. Now, although whether the structures detected are in fact buildings or monuments of sorts is unclear, sonar scans do confirm absolute alignment of a large portion of structures within the city with celestial bodies.

Cristina: And that's not just random?

Jack: That's not random. That had to be super intentional. Now this hints to a couple of things. This does hint to complicated astronomical knowledge. And? And some texts go as far as suggesting the awareness of objects deeper into our star system and even some outside of it. Which would require a minimum of interplanetary traveling technology.

Cristina: No, no.

Jack: A minimum. Some things today we could have never seen without being at the edge of our own star system.

Cristina: How's that powerful?

Jack: And they have knowledge of those things that we have only recently, within the last hundred years, come across.

Cristina: That one's hard to imagine.

Jack: It's in the text. That one we can't even deny. It's in the within. Old texts, they mention things we have only recently discovered.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: What things we have just stumbled upon in the last hundred years? They had 9,000 BCE they knew about. At least they knew about.

Cristina: How is that even possible?

Jack: They got structures aligned with crap we didn't know existed in our own star system, in the belts and s***. They got Planet Xmax mapped out somewhere. It's like get the f*** out of here. How?

Cristina: That's ridiculous.

Jack: You knew about some s*** we just theore still theorizing about. That's crazy. As for the public areas and the markets, Dwarka had public squares for gathering and markets, which implies well designed public spaces for trade and community activities. Text also mentioned trade with other like minded civilizations from both near and far.

Cristina: Like minded?

Jack: Yes. That doesn't mean that they were equally technologically advanced, but that they were at least friendly.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Now it does claim that there were a few trades with rivals that they had in Peace treaties.

Cristina: But they don't mention who these rivals are.

Jack: They don't mention who these rivals are specifically. At least not as far as me writing those notes. Weirdly enough, they had like public polling areas in their texts as well. Pooling pool pools, public pools. People go swimming.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Without it having to be the ocean.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Different from their reservoirs that they kept clean.

Cristina: Yeah. They have mad water stuff.

Jack: Yes. The city very connected to water.

Cristina: Yeah, that's pretty cool.

Jack: The outside all surrounded by water, at least in one direction within the city. Natural collections of water, natural water distribution. Water canals that travel on top of having a bunch of locations just to go in water that doesn't taint their drinking water.

Cristina: That is crazy. That's so advanced and so cool to imagine.

Jack: So sophisticated. Yeah, it sounds so elegant. And then you consider everything has water. Everything is made. Marble and gold and shiny metals and gemstones on everything. And then you consider current day designs in India that definitely took inspiration from structures they've seen in the past. And you consider all of their walkways are white, all of the buildings are gold, silver with green, red and yellow stones on them. And the natural water resources everywhere. Beautiful city. Had to be such an astounding thing to look at.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So mind boggling now. Now we start getting into something a little more interesting. Transport infrastructure as we've described. They had roads and avenues. Some of them were pretty broad roads nevertheless, which allowed for easy travel. Reflecting on well planned transport networks within city, they also had harbors and docks. Because of their position as a cold SO city. Dwarka's advanced harbors and docks worked for ship docking, pointing to a lot of maritime infrastructure and integration. But it also suggested many, because of the size of the coast and the amount of infrastructure along the coast, that there were not only their ships taking off, but many, many, many receiving ports. Okay, so there was a lot of ocean trade.

Cristina: Yes, there is a lot of trade. That must be how they got material. If this whole, if the text is.

Jack: Correct now one of the only groups of people I could think about that they would trade. That would be. This level of technology would eventually be the Mayans. How would you. Who else are you trading with that could cross the ocean in such vast repetition? They would need equal technology or somewhere near you at least. And that's, you know, they can get from Mexico to travel the water to India. So there's likely a trade line in between those two points.

Cristina: Like the way they made up.

Jack: No, just for them to get to. From all the way in Mexico to the ports over here in India. And then from India, they were probably getting easily to ports in Maya.

Cristina: Yes. Maya has mad material, right?

Jack: They had man material. Yes.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: But it's not even about the material. It's just about the fact that they, at some point, could have easily been trading with these people. So there's definitely connections. What's weird is the lack of mention. That's where it gets iffy.

Cristina: Who they were in contact with. Who are these friendlier foes?

Jack: No. Why didn't the Mayans mention these people? Why didn't anybody mention these people? Why do we have to look specifically at India? They clearly were trading with people.

Cristina: There has to be. Maybe they mentioned them as something else. Like the people. The sea people was the same way. Like there was a different word that we had to look into that was.

Jack: Oh, yeah, we found the Aletians much later.

Cristina: Yeah. They always mentioned them, but we just. It wasn't the right words that we were looking.

Jack: Yes. So it's completely possible that they were being described under a different term. Yes, I believe maybe among some of the texts that looked arbitrary and random to us. Again, perspective matters. A lot of the time we get informed, go back looking, we're like, oh.

Cristina: So we gotta do that. Okay.

Jack: I mean, we're gonna look at Maya anyways, because we already know that they had cities developed to transport people to the shadow realm and bring people from the shadow realm to live amongst.

Cristina: That's pretty crazy discovery. Yes.

Jack: So we still have. There's a lot in the text that was just not obvious.

Cristina: Yeah. Yeah, we got that way later on from anything else. That's the most recent thing.

Jack: Again, we already knew that they had portals, but we had no clue that this was just right in front of our face.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it's possible they did mention trade with these individuals. But interesting, though.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: They also had some bridges over canals, which is just interesting. Some. A few of the canals had breaks over them, thin breaks, which, you know, suggested easy mobility for vehicles and things over it.

Cristina: And both like.

Jack: Yes, very Venice, Italy.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Now, diving into some of their defensive situations here. We know the city walls were heftily fortified and tall, which was obviously for protection of the city, showcasing defensive architecture to withstand attacks. These are the inner walls. It had nothing to do with the flood walls.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The gates were fortified. Each entrance to the city was fortified, further enhancing their defensive capabilities. Watchtowers mentioned in text. And at each meeting point of the gaps leading to the gates, there are taller structures to either side.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Of where the gate would be. So where the gap exists to both sides of the gap in the wall.

Cristina: Some type of tower.

Jack: Some type of taller structure. That had to be a tower. Could have been decorative design. But presumably those are the towers they're talking about. Those are the towers are talking about. Which would help for ensuring surveillance, security and defense. I'm sure they were shooting right out of there. Something was a problem. And naval fortification, seaside defenses included potential underwater barriers, which we can see with the combination. This is a weird one. The flood walls that existed in full perimeter towards the water side, towards the coast were connected. This is the only part where they're connected to the wall surrounding the city. So there's two layer of walls. The smaller outer wall, which is for flooding, and the taller inner wall, which is for defense. Towards the coast. Those walls are connected with different beams and connect. It's a full different interesting structure that creates one giant. If we get attacked from the water, those people are more f***** than anybody could ever be f*****.

Cristina: They have protection for that.

Jack: That is a protection I'm talking about. The protection is that.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: If somebody attacked from the water, they have their defensive wall and their flood wall as one giant series of pillars. And it looked like they just had thousands at this point of watchtowers, all aiming towards the water.

Cristina: That is kind of crazy. But I mean, you have to do something like that. Yeah, I guess if you're that advanced and that's your weakest spot.

Jack: Yes. So this was obviously for. For naval protection. There must have been problems. Now diving purely into texts and what they suggest. Their technologies according just the text go the extra mile. This gives us a better hint as to what we're talking about here. Keep in mind we can prove most of what we've talked about. So we can assume the texts aren't bullshitting because we can prove almost everything. So when we dive into the technologies, we have to question. Holy s***. Did you just start bullshitting? But it's tied in equal parts with all the stuff we can prove now. They had advanced energy systems. So free clean energy harness from natural sources, which included water. That makes perfect sense.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Solar. Okay. Weirdly enough, cosmic. What does that mean the Egyptians technology where they go into space and transport crazy amounts of energy.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: It suggests they also had that they were maybe not as deep into space as the Egyptians were. All the way in the great Void. Literally creating an infinite amount of Dyson spheres to the point that we look up there and we just see darkness. But likely taking energy straight from not just solar, but rather sending things into the sun that weren't getting destroyed and bringing back mass amounts of plasmic energy. That's leaps and bounds of tech.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Just to accomplish something to gather energy like that. We are talking way more advanced than any other civilization without reaching the Egyptians and the Mayans. Definitely at least comparable to the Greek.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: They're at least tied with the Greek.

Cristina: The Greeks are the ones with the ones not once I forgot there was like pillars that helped gather energy. I can't remember if that was Greek or Egyptian.

Jack: That was Egyptian.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Egyptians had mastered energy. Okay, so that was the. Are you talking about. I forget what the obelisks.

Cristina: Yes. Did they have something like that as.

Jack: Well that there's no mention of it here.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: But they definitely. I'm assuming they must have had something comparable or something slightly more primitive. Again nobody's with the Egyptians when it came to energy.

Cristina: But plasma energy you said what?

Jack: That is still way more primitive than going across all of space and creating Dyson sphere that enclose multiple stars.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: At no point is this the mention of a Dyson sphere. At most they're sending something into a star to capture energy. A Dyson sphere would be so far ahead of sending something into a star that like this is primitive by comparison.

Cristina: Yeah. Okay.

Jack: Now it's still way more advanced than any city that exists today. This will s*** on any technology we have ever seen in person. Any technology anyone alive today has ever witnessed personally. This is way ahead of that. Still miles behind the Egyptians and the Egyptians were miles behind the Alicians, but still overpowered that is.

Cristina: Whoa.

Jack: Now here we get somewhere that we've not seen mentioned anywhere else. Flying vehicles referred to as vimanas. Vimanas. I don't know how I would say that. V I M A N a S Anti gravity and energy based flying machines capable of both local transportation and possibly inter regional and interstellar travel. Now we're elevating to getting closer to the Egyptians. Probably farther away from the Mayans. But we still don't have a true perspective on the Mayans because when we think about what we're talking about here, the Mayans technology would look closer to magic for us. While the Egyptians technology looks closer to our traditional sciences.

Cristina: Oh, science, yes.

Jack: So the Mayans are masters of crossing to the other side, while the Egyptians are masters of controlling things on this side. Two vastly different types of technology which as we found out with the Shadow. The Shadow gods. The crossing of technology is something important. Mixing of these two worlds matters. And there's zero mention of these Individuals having any connection to the Shadow realm.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: To this moment, there's not. And I guarantee you through the entirety of what we're going to talk about, there's not one mention. They seem very, very, very exaggeratedly on the side of earthrealm, but technology wise.

Cristina: Interesting.

Jack: While the Egyptians had shadow people and Alicians had shadow people, and the Mayans had shadow people, and the Greek had shadow people.

Cristina: No shadow people. I wonder if there's any mention of Maga. That usually helps.

Jack: I don't know who built the city. It's unclear who was leading, which people were involved or anything.

Cristina: No leaders mentioned. Whoa.

Jack: No one specific. Just breaking down the city specifically. Maybe at some point. I'll try to see if we can find names or something. But as far as we know, there's nothing. No. None of this technology at least connects to the Shadow Realm or even Alphan. Just straight up tech. Straight up Earth Realm tech.

Cristina: Whoa.

Jack: Advanced. They're specialists. Clearly specialists in Earth Realm.

Cristina: No help.

Jack: Don't know.

Cristina: As far as we can tell. That's crazy.

Jack: We don't know. We have no reference point to tell whether they did or did not. But we just know all of it seems to be earthrealm based. If they had people of Val Fame and people of the Shadow realm involved, even those individuals were entirely focused on earthrealm tech, because that's all we're saying. And I guess based on the difference of technologies between Maya and Egypt, we can assume that the Mayan and Egypt were equal just in totally different technologies. Which would mean that these individuals are catching up to the Egyptians and the Mayans. Based on the quality and complexity of.

Cristina: Their technologies, they gotta be equal. I don't know. They sound ridiculous.

Jack: Yeah. And we can assume that the Greek were also pretty up there. The Greek, the Mayan, the Egyptian, the Elysians, and now the people from India, from Dwarka, at least. Very interesting flying vehicles. We've seen this nowhere else. But if you got portals, you don't need to fly anywhere. You can just pop up places. So none of those individuals needed them? Them. These people don't seem to have portals.

Cristina: But what does a flying vehicle mean? Like, what is it made out of?

Jack: It's a machine. I don't know.

Cristina: It's a machine. It's crazy. I don't know. It's just hard to imagine.

Jack: Imagine a car.

Cristina: But would it even look like a car? Would it look like.

Jack: No, it would look like their version of car. It looked like their ancient primitive.

Cristina: Not primitive, but ancient descriptions of what this Flying vehicle looks like.

Jack: No.

Cristina: Wow.

Jack: They just what it could do. It was capable of vertical takeoff. It could travel interstellarly. Which is nuts as.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But we know there are people who could instantaneously cross the universe. So that's still primitive as compared to that technology. They did not have that sort of Egyptian teleportation tech that existed which probably wasn't even Egyptian to begin with. That was probably given to them by the Mayans who were the masters of creating portals and bridging gaps like that. Possibly it existed in the pyramids and the pyramids existed in both locations.

Jack: You know, that's the kind of thing that is like. Well, if you guys are sharing tech then that. That one probably came from this group of people.

Cristina: Yes, yes.

Jack: Knowing what they specialize in. They had advanced shipbuilding and maritime technology. So sophisticated ships, navigational tools, water defense ships, submarines for protection, trade and possibly automated. Nevertheless. So like no people are in there?

Cristina: No.

Jack: What they have AI navigating these ships.

Cristina: That's crazy.

Jack: This is in their text. Like this should just worked on its own. But again this is where we have to be like d***, bro. So scientists have to scientists looking through these ancient texts. I'd be like oh no. This is. This is a 100% just myth at this point. But it's like come on bro, we could do it. Why do we have to be the pinnacle always?

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: It's weird. Weaponry and defense systems Here we dive into weirder things. Okay. We have interstellar traveling. That's right. We have automation. So AI. So some of that leans into. When you think about what it would require. Right. To interstellar travel you need mass amounts of energy. But if you're going straight into the sun and acquiring energy, you have mass amounts of energy. High energy weapons that include laser rifles.

Cristina: Oh my God.

Jack: Laser missile technology. Precision destruction capable of energy dispersion higher than current day nuclear weaponry.

Cristina: How is.

Jack: How are what and defense shield and barriers probably energy powered.

Cristina: No way.

Jack: So they can in. Now here is where it becomes interesting. The outer wall is way shorter and thicker. The inner wall is taller and thinner. The side of the wall connecting facing the water connects to both walls connect. If you were to draw this out, you could easily flick a switch and a dome would farm over with support. Weird. The structure without having to read any of this bullshit would tell you you could easily form a dome around it. How out of all the s*** that's weirdly the closest one to being proven. A weird energy shield.

Cristina: An energy shield. How are they doing this, this is way too advanced. Now I'm questioning the city. Maybe they were gold, I don't know.

Jack: Yeah. As we get into their tech, it starts to kind of go into the deep end.

Cristina: That sounds ridiculous. Maybe they're mining in the sky. Like why do they have to trade?

Jack: I mean, once we establish that they could do interstellar travel and they could acquire energy from a star.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Acquiring pure materials from space becomes easy.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So you don't even have to go that far. You could just go to the first belt, start mining.

Cristina: That ridiculous. Okay.

Jack: The fact that they would have had to be able to exit our star system at all means the outer belt. Easy. You don't have to leave our star to get there. You just stay within our own solar system and you could mine the outer belt infinitely for all of infinity and.

Cristina: Have just infinite resources with this crazy advanced technology. They were letting people into their city. That's crazy.

Jack: Totally primitive people. But these people are going to come in. Nobody's going to hurt anybody. How I know he's going to come in for trade and whatever. The cities surrounding this location that are around today. And their historical records do suggest that although they weren't advanced, they had access to already existing advanced materials that they didn't have the ability to make. So they were going to places to shop for things they couldn't replicate. And these people weren't afraid to give to them because how the f*** are they gonna learn how to do it?

Cristina: They're not.

Jack: They could just come buy it from us and they'll always have to come buy it from us. For all of infinity they'll have to come buy it from us. Because they would never learn with their primitive s*** how to replicate it.

Cristina: That's crazy. There's no way they were like doing that with their ships or that.

Jack: No way.

Cristina: They were not using their technology.

Jack: They were just letting people come in and take the things that wouldn't be able to be used against them.

Cristina: Insane, insane technology.

Jack: Now when we revisit the automation and artificial intelligence, it makes way more sense that they definitely had access to all of these things. And it suggests that their automated systems were used to manage everything from city infrastructure to trade and defense. So AI could have been integrated to everything. What they had Internet?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: They had a stock market, likely. And that this would choose prices that made sense and allowed every outsiders to come and trade. Allowed civilized equally powerful civilizations to come and trade and primitive civilizations to come and trade in a fair way that it's all calculated and you don't have to.

Cristina: I have to believe that the Mayans and the Egyptians had this type of tech as well.

Jack: Well, we know they did. We know they had AI and we know that at least the Mayans did, which suggested the Egyptians and the Elysians did, since they were always sharing. The minds at least had the ability to store all this data.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Which required sorting through it, which would require something with the ability and capacity to run through it.

Cristina: So they all had some type form of Internet and AI.

Jack: Yep. Interesting. And the Internet would probably suggest how the libraries made it to these separate locations. The Sphinx and El Castillo.

Cristina: It makes sense.

Jack: They just needed a hard copy in case of s***. Which did happen. So the hard copy did pay off.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: Interesting. It's interesting that like Jesus knew about the technology too. I remember we learned that he just stuck to writing paper because it was more trustworthy than.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Using anything else.

Jack: Yes, yes, yes.

Cristina: He.

Jack: He did not trust. Using whatever current. And the fact it was. It sounded stupid at the time. Oh, he. And he found that writing was more effective at keeping secrets. And it's like, as compared to what?

Cristina: Dude, it has to be this.

Jack: It had to be this. He was trying to evade the modern mode of communication. Right? Now if we were trying to evade the government, we would do it by sending handwritten letters that would look like any normal male. Is how you would evade the technologies that are being surveilled by the governments of the world. That's exactly what he was doing.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Crazy Jesus was actively coming up. He was a rebel. And like, to the realest, most exaggerated. He was the rebel of rebels.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Yeah. He was the golden standard. Medical technologies. They had advanced health care. And here's where it gets a little weird. Genetic engineering capable. Capable of extending life, curing diseases and healing injuries instantaneously.

Cristina: How. I mean, I understand. But like all of them, they always. This always ends up. They all seem the same.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Once they reach a certain.

Jack: And it looks like when you think about it. Right. Who is super overpowered? All first world countries are first world countries and they're equally first world countries to some degree. Yes. Some are slightly better, some are slightly worse. But they're all First World countries.

Cristina: These ancient first world countries are all.

Jack: Yep.

Cristina: Like that.

Jack: They're all roughly equal. And yes, there's the one mega super like Russia, United States equivalent, which was the Alicians. Oh, we're all scared of you.

Cristina: Yeah, but. But everyone has their unique.

Jack: Yeah, but it's more or less there. Everybody's kind of on the cusp of the same thing. It's just again, we can think. The United States. Oh, they're strapped with nukes. There's the most dangero. I was like, all right, those were the Alicians. They had the most nukes. We'll just call it that. They had the most nukes.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And so people wanted to trade with them the most so that they're on their good graces, like the United States. And people wanted to, you know, always be on their happy side. The Elysians all feared to the point that if you're gonna talk s***, you're gonna talk s*** secretly, you're gonna come up with a different word. Sea people. The sea people. F*** them.

Cristina: F*** the sea people.

Jack: I hate them all. The Alicia.

Cristina: There has to be word. I can't wait to find what these people are called. Really or not really. We know their names, but what other people were calling them.

Jack: What other people calling them and what they were calling other people.

Cristina: Oh, okay, yeah.

Jack: Now, computing. How do we get to AI? Well, they. According to the texts, they don't use the following terms. This is what it would translate to if we were to assume what it meant, which is the ability to compute infinite information almost instantaneously. They must have had quantum computing. They must have had quantum computing. It's the only way for any of this we are talking about to be.

Cristina: Possible once we get to sun power. Like, okay, okay, you must, you must.

Jack: How are you building anyway? No, it's not a stretch. In fact, quantum computing would be primitive comparatively. You must have had past the. Out of that threshold long ago before.

Cristina: You're taking energy from this within the sun.

Jack: Like, okay, you need something that can process making a material that won't melt. Like how?

Cristina: Like how exactly? Yes.

Jack: It needs to withstand the pressure and heat of the sun and then somehow have thrust enough to pull itself out from that gravity.

Cristina: That technology is the true advanced technology. Like, what is that?

Jack: Yes, yes, but also, that's still way primitive than a Dyson sphere. Yes, because the Dyson sphere that isn't collapsing and falling into the star, you must have figured something out. An instantaneous transportation. Crazy. These was leaps and bounds so far ahead of what could be understood. But yeah, definitely quantum computing. They also had environmental control systems, so controlling the weather, obviously, and environmental conditions to manage heat flooding, even manipulating the climate in general to have the most ideal climate at all times. Now we get to scaling, right? Now we get to scaling. Yes, within text alone. There's no way to conclude or prove this any other f****** way than reading it. One Part of this very easy science wise and terminology wise, we can compare this to other civilizations, which is dimensional physics. Opening and closing portals. Now we've gotten to portals. They have the ability to open and close portals now it does not mention at any moment crossing a portal to another realm. It sort of looks like folding space onto itself. So warp technology that allows them to cross huge gaps of space in short time.

Cristina: That's how they're traveling to the sun.

Jack: That's how they're traveling to the sun. And probably entering the sun effortlessly. Maybe it's not even that kind of tech. Maybe it's not something going into the sun in the same way we think maybe they're folding the sun in a way that allows them to put something in there, extract energy and unfold it and be safe.

Cristina: That is ridiculous.

Jack: Weird.

Cristina: That is so, I guess, possible.

Jack: Yep.

Cristina: So if you have that tech now.

Jack: We can compare that to other civilizations and be like, yeah, okay, sure, whatever. The other side that is mentioned in sync with this, we don't necessarily have equal, which is time manipulation.

Cristina: Whaaat?

Jack: Potentially mastery over time dilation.

Cristina: What? What does that mean? How?

Jack: Well, the text suggests that they can manipulate time.

Cristina: And what?

Jack: I don't know, it doesn't specify. Just talks about that being among their technological capabilities.

Cristina: That's kind of insane.

Jack: Yeah, that puts them way up there, right next to the Aleutians. And based on how long ago this was made, maybe.

Cristina: But no one can wrestle time. I mean, besides the necromancers.

Jack: The necromancers, exactly. So we know of people who can. And if the Elysians had access to the necromancers without ever explicitly mentioning time manipulation, they had access to it, they just didn't mention it. But the necromancers did. And the necromancers could easily, almost effortlessly, and it wasn't a problem, it was an afterthought. And the Elysians had access to the necromancer.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So they had access to time. We just hadn't stumbled upon this before.

Cristina: So these people possibly did the same. Because without a necromancer.

Jack: Oh, right. How the f*** would you do it? Without a necromancer?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So they must have had a necromancer. But also, we know Jesus was fond of India.

Cristina: Yes. And we also know what's his name?

Jack: Hermes.

Cristina: Hermes likes to travel.

Jack: Yes. And Hermes was also fond of India.

Cristina: Oh crap.

Jack: And Hermes, although close to the Elysians, was a neutral party.

Cristina: Yes. Yes. So.

Jack: The homie, both the homies might have. They might have Traveled here.

Cristina: That's crazy.

Jack: Both the homies might have traveled and given tech or helped with developing tech. Teaching them, okay, you can't do what we do, but maybe we can make some technology that can, man.

Cristina: But, man, that's. That's too much. That's too much. That's more. I don't know. Time tech is just crazier than any type of tech there is.

Jack: Yes. I think it violates anybody f****** with you.

Cristina: Yeah. And yet they were f***** with. At least they had to be. Like.

Jack: Now. The question is, why isn't the city standing today?

Cristina: That is a good question. I want to know. Death friendly. I have guesses.

Jack: Go for it.

Cristina: I don't know. The Elysians didn't like what they were doing. They had to have enemies. Of course.

Jack: Other than the Elysians, what enemy could they possibly have that could do anything?

Cristina: If they weren't friends with the Shadow Realm people, maybe the Shadow Realm people didn't like them.

Jack: Who's gonna have the tech to f*** with us? Who in the Shadow Realm could possibly. We're talking. These people seem kind of ridiculous. Ridiculous.

Cristina: But they were taken down. Like, that's pretty. Like, whatever did do this, it's kind of crazy, whatever it is. It's very scary.

Jack: All right, so the likely possibility is obviously war and some kind of conflict. Now, trade rivalries. Dwarka's role as a major port city likely placed it at the center of competition for trade routes with other civilizations, which may have made it a target for civilizations seeking dominance over those Earths. In a geopolitical context, its strategic location and advanced infrastructure would make it a likely target for power struggles or military conflicts. But nobody surrounding them could have had the ability to f*** with them in any magnitude imaginable.

Cristina: So they could have taken themselves out.

Jack: Mentions of civilizations with equal or superior military power were perceived with the threat of invasion. This is mentioned within.

Cristina: Okay, so then someone else could have.

Jack: They mentioned equals. They were unclear about who those equals were, but there were people who they did fear.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Leaders of Dwarka had mentioned evacuation as a possibility to a large conflict with the rivals.

Cristina: That's how scary their rival was. They're like, let's just abandon everything.

Jack: Abandon.

Cristina: The most man city we have ever heard of was like, we just gotta get out. Yep, there's no solution here with this enemy.

Jack: Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.

Cristina: What is that? Scary from what? Everything you've mentioned. What could possibly be more scarier than that?

Jack: Now, this is where the environmental controls and those really advanced water pumps kick in preemptive sinking is loosely. In different texts. Not one piece says explicitly. But some will mention flooding the city, some will mention sinking the city. Some will mention creating storms to protect the city. Some mentioned evacuation of the city. All of that is one scenario. So the water management systems that the city had were quite advanced, as we know. They included the reservoirs. They included the canals and flood defense systems. This indicates that Dwarka could have easily controlled natural water flows. And it's possible that this was used to deliberately flood and sink the city, ensuring rivals wouldn't capture their technology. It was about.

Cristina: This was the runaway situation.

Jack: This was a runaway situation.

Cristina: What?

Jack: But this tells us something very, very, very, very interesting.

Cristina: This is the second time we saw something like this.

Jack: Yes, exactly. Now, it's not a matter of, oh, the Elysians blood. No, these people sank this before the Elysians did.

Cristina: The Alicians were scared of something. They ran.

Jack: These people were scared of something and they ran. They sank the thing trying to get rid of the potential of whatever other f****** s*** it was. And this is long before Jesus. Now, this was built around 9,000, but this city went down around 2,000 BCE.

Cristina: And when did the Elysians do it to their own city?

Jack: Year one, year one. Which would be 2,000 years after this.

Cristina: What is happening? What could be a threat like that?

Jack: What could be a threat that something as overpowered as Dwarka and Elysium.

Cristina: Like, they look like they got infinite amount of power.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: What is scarier than that?

Jack: Unstoppable forces of nature.

Cristina: God.

Jack: Tier. The Almost the highest level we can think of when it comes to the Kardashev scale. At least localized level 4. Without counting, you know, bending the literal fabric of space time in the universe. What the f*** could you be dealing with that these people also had the fear of something stronger and actively sank super ridiculously advanced technology trying to avoid it being captured by something stronger. Who could be the rivals? And who are these people who are still lurking 2000 years after this city sank and made the Elysians paranoid? So then the creation of Jesus was only trying to stop whatever the f*** that was.

Cristina: So you think there's something bigger than the Elysians? Okay, what? That is so crazy. What could possibly be this?

Jack: They needed Hermes and Jesus and it still wasn't enough to somehow deal with whatever this other thing is. Presumably these people are still also around somewhere so deep and hidden.

Cristina: I would think the. I guess the biggest option would be Mel.

Jack: I guess. But the weird problem is we can't get information on that.

Cristina: I know we can't, but, like, that's the biggest. Like, maybe she can delete things. I don't know. Maybe she could delete things from her program if we're just in her program.

Jack: Well, at this point, I'm not even sure if it's still a program. But, like, I don't. I don't know what any of this means anymore. And the fact that, like, who can f*** with these people? This is two different cities of the most advanced anything that has ever existed in all of. Anything that we have ever conceived that feared something more complicated. And even the they made at the very end was so overpowered that it would on the entire Jesus alone. Would. On the entire Elysian civilization and every bit of technology they've ever had. And still that wasn't enough.

Cristina: It's gotta be the fairies doing their thing. The fairies are so advanced and we never actually know what they're doing.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: And look, we just know they're safeguarding the program.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: This would make so much sense.

Jack: Yeah. The. It looks like the. The elves fail when we get to Jesus.

Cristina: Yes. But maybe not.

Jack: Maybe not. Maybe not. Maybe successfully breaking apart the group or how. Making them abandon their level of progress.

Cristina: Yes. Like, that's pretty.

Jack: That's.

Cristina: That's wild. Yeah.

Jack: Yeah. They're forcing these individuals to control. Alt. Delete.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: You know, they're just forcing them to delete their own.

Cristina: Yes. Because, like. Or you'll get deleted.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: You'll delete it. Or you get deleted.

Jack: Like something is going. It's you or it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And it's like. I don't know. Maybe.

Cristina: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Because it's just too advanced to imagine something. Like, what possibly could they fear besides, like, being wiped out?

Jack: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. It's too. It's. It's incomprehensible that there would be an issue.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So these people flooded their city.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Snapped it off the side, sank it.

Cristina: Into the ocean, and then covered it up.

Jack: Well, no time did that. They just f****** sent it into the ocean.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And time buried it. But it's like, leave it f****** down. Let's get the h*** out of here. They vacuumed the whole b****. They evacuated everything and just dipped. Crazy. So records. The earliest records of the city date back to 574, which mentioned previous records that got washed away and things that disappeared over time, dating its sinking to 1500s BCE. Somewhere between 15 and 1900s BCE, so about 2000 years before the Elysian sank their city.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And this kind of ties them to the beginning of other civilizations like the Indus Valley civilizations and whatnot that would then settle within the regions. I know. It's f****** weird, man.

Cristina: I think we have some. We're getting a picture of something at least. What could possibly be going on?

Jack: This puts the Elysians equal to the city of Dwarka. So that's two different cities, not countries. These are cities. Elysium at the bottom of the Persian Gulf oasis and Dwarka at the edge of India. Two highly advanced civilizations that just were.

Cristina: Taken down by themselves like nothing else.

Jack: Yeah. They themselves took. Sank their everything. And the mines ran away, the Mayans ran away. Probably to the Shadow Realm. Originally, we thought, because it didn't look like there was no trail. There was no trail outward. Our conclusion was they went underground, but they didn't need a trail outward if they just left the f****** realm.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Which would explain that. And the Egyptians were like, f*** Earth.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: There's a lot of evidence of that. They're just like, we made rockets. We made this, we made that. And dipped. F*** everything.

Cristina: No.

Jack: Something. But no, no, because. No, no, it's not. It's not the elves or. If it is, it's not. It can't be the system logic we applied to it before.

Cristina: Why?

Jack: Because the Elysians took as much tech as they could underground underwater, and the Mayan took a bunch of their tech too. We assumed underground, but likely to the Shadow Realm. And the Egyptians took their tech across the universe.

Cristina: Well, we don't have the proof of what tech they took. Like maybe it's safe tech that the fairies wouldn't be bothered by and they probably destroyed.

Jack: Take tech that allows you to cross the universe. You're talking quite advanced. You're talking the most advanced of the most advanced. Something that could withstand the pressure of the deepest part of the ocean, is the weight of Earth on top of you and it not collapsing. We're talking advance.

Cristina: So what's going on? I don't know. Interesting.

Jack: Minus the fact that we have no proof of the Greek running away. We don't actually know where those people might be at this moment. Minus that. That's four different examples, two of which are colossally overpowered. Way more overpowered than the other two, which are the Elysians and Dwarka.

Cristina: Destroyed their crap and ran away.

Jack: Yep.

Cristina: Weird.

Jack: So what is it that everybody was horrified of that was so colossal it was more important to dip everybody? Full mass evacuation. That's four full mass evacuations.

Cristina: What's that about? What's that about? I don't know. That's crazy.

Jack: Yep. So there you go.

Cristina: I wonder if we'll find out. But like, I hope we do. I doubt we will.

Jack: But like, slowly but surely, I guess it's just crazy. I don't even understand what could be this overpowered. But for all this data, anybody who's interested, all this is available online. All this is available in different series of books. I'll tell you the names of those books again. You can find the lost city of Dwarka. You could find marine archaeology of the Indian Ocean countries. You could find excavations of Dwarka. You could find the archaeology of Bet Dwarka. And you could find archaeological survey of India reports. All are heftily including all of this information. And you can go through it yourself, find which details matter. And all of this is, you know, you could cross reference it with other data that isn't within the books that are mentioned. You could find a lot of the original texts.

Cristina: That would be so insane. I just don't understand. It's ancient and advanced.

Jack: Just like the Elysians. Yeah. Yeah, just like the Elysians. That's crazy. And this is just one we're going to be going through. There are others.

Cristina: Whoa.

Jack: Yeah. So, yeah, if you guys want to talk to us about this, anything you find while looking at this, feel free.

Cristina: To see a connection that we're missing.

Jack: Yeah. Feel free to contact us on our socials at. Just convopod on X, on Facebook, on Instagram, on wherever the h*** you want to type. Just convo pod and we show up.

Cristina: Remember to subscribe, rate and review. Let's share.

Jack: And word of mouth is the most exaggerated thing on Earth. Share it so that we also get hunted down by whatever this crazy force is.

Cristina: What? And this has been the Rambling podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Bye.

Jack: Sabbath.

Cristina: Good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by great dots.info art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McCallister with social media managed by Amber Black.

September 07, 2024

Rambling 288: Minotaur

September 07, 2024/ GreyThoughts.Info

What exactly is the Minotaur? What was its purpose? Where does it come from? The duo unpack the many myths and hidden stories of one of Greece’s most infamous creatures in a search to find any shred of relevant data that could help inform them beyond previously reached barriers in the data related to the Elysians or Clinton Road.

+Episode Details

Greek Mythology
Minotaur
Ancient Punishment
The Labyrinth
Survival Maze
Poseidon

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

+Transcription

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Rambling podcast. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And this is the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas, of which there are many. Humanity is very absurd and baffling.

Cristina: We are.

Jack: Yeah, yeah. Very confusing, absurd and baffling individuals. And so to catch anybody new up, we have been recently looking at or trying to solve what the h*** is at the bottom of Cross Castle, which is essentially located in West Milford around Clinton Road. What is considered to be the most haunted place planet Earth. And there happens to be a castle that a bunker was made and everything inside of it was private for quote, official government reasons, unquote. And to keep mining goods protected. Allegedly. But everything about the situation is really weird. And has tunnels leading to towns where the exit and entrances are unknown, a secret in and out in the woods that nobody knows where it might be and the castle having been destroyed, making accessing the bunker underneath impossible from that location and only accessible through the other passageways that connect through different towns. Weird, random things going on.

Cristina: Strange. Yes.

Jack: And this place happens to be located again where the spookiest, most haunted things take place. Except that we can tell a lot of these things line up with things that we've researched and looked up in the past, including creatures from different realms and in. You know, there's a lot of science going on, ancient sciences going on and modern day science is going on and things that allow people to move to ethereal states and to cross into non physical ways and to manipulate the fabric of reality in different manner, shapes of forms or what not. Usually being necromancers or things along those natures. Although in modern day we use the word which was druids. Druids supersedes necromancers. But it's an incorrect words. Ka. Druids kind of lacks the very specific nature of a necromancer having to die to get where he's going.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And a druid doesn't need to. A druid is just some other thing. A low budget necromancer at best was.

Cristina: Just hanging out in the woods.

Jack: Yes. And so we have gone on. Sometimes we look at other areas to get informed about other areas. And sometimes we look at things that are more or less related or they have patterns that seem relative to each other in order to get informed on things that in a lot of time it works, you know, sometimes it doesn't and we just find something cool to look at.

Cristina: Yeah, that's so cool.

Jack: Yeah. But sometimes we actually connect the dots and it works. And it's. Oh, yeah, this is clearly related to that. And. And sometimes we just go monster hunting as well.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Because there's weird creatures out there. And sometimes monster hunting answers questions we didn't know we had that do inform these other things. Because monsters aren't really monsters, per se. It's usually just some kind of science freak, and science is way more than modern society accepts.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But that being said, today we have something a little interesting to look at, and this is one of those times that I need you.

Cristina: Oh, boy.

Jack: To tell the audience what you're looking at, because they're not going to be able to see it. IO only podcast. So I need you to paint the picture of what you are currently looking at in front of you.

Cristina: I don't know. It's. I'm sure it has a name. I don't know what the name is. It's a mythical creature. Greek mythical creature.

Jack: Fascinating.

Cristina: All right. I'm sure it has a name. I just don't know what it is. It's like a. I keep thinking centaur, but it's not a centaur. It's some type of beast. It's got hooved legs, horns, red eyes, making you, I guess, think it's like a devil creature, whatever, you know, like, if you. But it looks.

Jack: More detail. More detail.

Cristina: I'm thinking very muscular. Yes, very muscular. Man or lion. Go thing. I don't know. That's covering its private parts because it carries and it has a belt and it's holding a stick, I think. Could be a stick. Could be some type of weapon. I don't know. Inside. I don't know what he's inside of.

Jack: Interesting, right? He's inside something for sure.

Cristina: Yeah. Could be underground. Could be. I don't know. It has a toe, I think. I think so. I don't know. It looks like a combination of different animals.

Jack: What animals would you say it looks like?

Cristina: A lion? A bull, maybe? Because the horns are like a bull.

Jack: Elaborate on the horns.

Cristina: They're long, curvy, pointy. I think he has ears, though, underneath it.

Jack: Yes, I see that, too.

Cristina: Yeah. And he has the hair. The lion mane thing happening. I think. Like, it's. But his arms are very human.

Jack: Minus the fact that he seems to have, like, sharp talons at the very end. It's just hands, right?

Cristina: Yeah, yeah. They look like regular muscular hands and torso with. I don't Know what's happening with his legs? His legs are goat legs. He's like a combo of different animals.

Jack: Okay, okay, okay. Describe his face a little.

Cristina: I don't really can't talk because it's really bad. Like he's in the shadow. So half of his face is missing. Okay. Is that his teeth? His teeth is showing. I'm not really sure what his nose looks like.

Jack: I would argue he has a bit of a gorilla looking nose.

Cristina: Yeah, a gorilla looking sort of face. I think besides the mouth that's sticking out. I don't know if the mouth, the teeth. If that's the teeth. Sharp teeth. And the ears. I'm not sure what animal the ears look like.

Jack: I would also say that's kind of goat like. Yeah, it feels very goat like to me.

Cristina: The ears are like goats. The. I don't know the. If that's goats too. The horns is either go go or fascinating. What did I say before? Bull.

Jack: Interesting, interesting.

Cristina: With the hair of like a lion.

Jack: Definitely something reminiscent, right? Something you've seen before to some degree.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Okay, we're gonna take a look again at a different image of this creature. More. More variation of the same creature. So you could paint a little more picture. Maybe it'll. It'll zero in on something. Anything you notice different here. These are all just based on things that have been described of this creature.

Cristina: What's the one next to it? There's the same thing. Are very similar. The first, the one to the left. The one to the left looks very similar except his legs are thinner, very thin. But everything else looks almost the same. His hair is curlier. I guess it's long and curly. Looks more like a goat, I guess. And then he's next to a creature. I'm not really sure. I guess it's supposed to be him too, but just all animal side of him. Is he some type of werewolf?

Jack: No, this is supposed to be exactly the same thing in one state. It's just the level of descriptions are so varied that we can land at these two different images.

Cristina: So he always has the red hair and the horns and those goat like red hair, red hairs, red eyes, curly hair, long hair or not curly. Maybe wavy. Wavy hair.

Jack: Fur.

Cristina: Fur. That second. What is that second animal? It's not a bull though. But it's. That's like a hairy bull.

Jack: Interesting, right? There's something going on there.

Cristina: It's a hairy ball. A giant hairy. Giant hairy bull or goat. I think there's been goats that big.

Jack: No, no. H*** no. There's no Chance there has been anything this size in all of mention, other than this one thing.

Cristina: Okay. This is. It's. It has to be a ball that's just got his. Very hairy. That's very hairy. And the creature looks like a human version of that animal, I guess.

Jack: Interesting. Okay, so the animal's name that you were trying to get to is a minotaur.

Cristina: Yes, that's a minotaur. No.

Jack: Yeah, that would be essentially the minotaur.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But we're gonna look at one more image. This is to size, scale, kind of giving you an idea of how big these things really are. Paint this picture.

Cristina: There's a. I guess in the middle is a man, or what a man is supposed to be the size of. I think there's numbers next to him.

Jack: Ignore the numbers.

Cristina: Okay. Well, it's huge. What the mentor, Whether it's a human version of the manotaur or the animal version of the manotaur, they're huge. They're like two humans standing, like if two. If a person had a person on top of them is the size of whichever of these creatures you want to talk about?

Jack: Yes. Easily nine to ten feet tall, right?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And what details can you tell us about these individuals as you're seeing them here? More. I got more specific each time I'm showing you an image. So now you get more detail, more details.

Cristina: I don't know because it looks a lot like the other one. I don't know if there's any real difference.

Jack: Got you. I'll start painting the picture. Then. His legs. The hooved sort of animalistic legs that this, AKA Minotaur, would have is wrapped with leather bindings and some sort of metallic plate to protect its knees. It seems that would normally be exposed. There's something that looks like a kilt or something that's around its waist, probably made from fur and leather. And then around its chest, it has a weapon harness. At the same time, the face still maintains a sort of animalistic face. I would argue here it's even closer to a goat.

Cristina: Looks like a lion.

Jack: You think it looks like a lion?

Cristina: Fair enough.

Jack: It also looks kind of like a lion. Yeah, fair enough. Very exaggeratedly muscular arms, muscular upper body. In every version of it, its upper body is extremely muscular. It definitely does have a tail. It doesn't have hair. It has fur. Oftentimes the fur seems to be focused on the head and the neck or the legs. There's very little fur focusing on the body part. It seems like in every version of this, the body seems to be unexposed. There's a very neck, a little bit of fur on the arms and much on the legs, the hooved legs usually more towards the bottom, but there's some iterations with it a little higher, you get a little fur around the waist. So in, for lack of a better word, it's a minotaur. Yes, except we're gonna have quite a couple of better words.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: So the minotaur kind of a known, probably one of the more known, less discussed creatures from Greek mythology.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And it coming from Greek mythology tells us a couple of details right off the bat. If you have something weird and it came from Greek mythology, there's one group of people we can just point.

Cristina: Zeus and his buddies.

Jack: Yes, Always they're doing something weird. Always. So that's a good place to start looking for what the h*** a minotaur is.

Cristina: Okay, Right.

Jack: So doing some digging, we have some basic details here. Minotaur, the word literally translates to minos bull, so man bull.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Literally what it means. The stories of the Minotaur take place roughly around 1500 BC to 1300 BC. Now, outside of our descriptions that we gave to those images, there are some localized descriptions that we can give that come from text. Specifically, body of a man, head of a bull. That's the most obvious kind of descriptor.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Yeah, between 7 and 10ft on average. Okay, let's go to its head specifically. Yeah, it's huge, monstrous sized thing. Now, aside from its bull like head, it tends to have long curved horns. These long curved horns can be seen on bulls. These long curved horns can be seen on goats. These long curved horns can be seen on plethora of different creatures. And kind of really pronounced and large. Specifically on him, presumably because of his exaggerated size, again, 7 to 10ft is kind of excessive.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So the horns would presumably be some monstrously sized things.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Fascinating thing that immediately gets my attention is glowing red eyes.

Cristina: Yes. Why?

Jack: Because it hints towards a lot of things that are curious. Glowing red eyes seems to be a feature of a lot of shadow realm things. Large flaring nostrils, reminiscent of something like an ape. Of something like a bull. Snarling mouth with incredibly sharp teeth. Now this is interesting because its face is. Its mouth in particular seems to be sort of almost a combination of an ape and the lion. Midway.

Cristina: Yeah. It's the sharp teeth from the lion.

Jack: Interesting. Right. Its face protrudes a little, which is unlike an ape. But the structure of the face and the pushing of the nose has a kind of ape like Structure to it. There's an interesting set of details here. Now, on its head it has short coarse fur covering most of its face and its neck usually coming from its head, appearing oftentimes like a lion's mane.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But also goats tend to have a kind of facial wrap like that. Interesting enough. So do bison, which I would argue.

Cristina: Is what they're trying to go for in these.

Jack: Well, at least the more animalistic version of him was like a bison with horns at this point.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And just its face and head is generally very thick and muscular. A very powerful looking creature. Now details outside of these descriptions that show up in sentences as well, but more like in literal sentences, as opposed to somebody just kind of chalking off what they thought looked like when they saw it and wrote it down. The face seems primarily human with extremely pronounced animalistic bull like features. It tends to have a beard that resembles that of a goats. Very similar to what we're saying.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So this is a translation into English from something from a Greek text that is literal sentence, a paraphrase. Not literally word for word, but it is a paraphrase of what they were trying to get to, which is. Yeah, bull like features and a goat like thing going on. Let's discuss. Its torso now has very broad, powerful chest, oftentimes ginormous, kind of leading to the typical masculine V shape you want. Tiny waist, huge shoulders. And he definitely has a highly muscular. The build is quite defined because of how muscular it is. Extremely veiny, extremely like you. You lift too much, bro. You mad swole.

Cristina: Very bull like. Bulls are pretty muscular creatures.

Jack: Yeah, very stocky. Yeah, very swole. Now its torso is covered in coarse fur, but often leaving the chest and belly area is exposed. So the fur kind of focuses on the back and on the side.

Cristina: Makes me think of like a gorilla type.

Jack: Yes, it definitely has that right. Because gorillas chests seem to be more bare. Well, it depends on the gorilla too. But yeah, it seems to be more bare and whatnot. And although those images weren't too specific on this detail, oftentimes its ribcage is pronounced through its muscular build. That's how tight its muscles are and how tight its skin is. You can kind of see the formation. Not like super protruding and nasty like it's dying of hunger or something, but rather you can tell it's so tight that its rib cage tends to be shown. Okay, now here's an interesting detail. It's often depicted whether wearing a leather strap in an X fashion that is used to hold axes and other weapons as we are familiar with because it tends to have two axes.

Cristina: Okay. I wonder why.

Jack: But.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Its arms, again, thick, muscular, kind of almost exaggeratedly so. Way more than its body. Its body is exaggerated, but you gotta then exaggerate farther to get to the ridiculously absurd size of its arms. And as we noted, its hands have sharp claws instead of natural human like nails. So it's a normal human like hand, other than it's ginormous and probably like three times the size of your head. But then instead of nails, actual claws, you can just swipe at something and cut it open.

Cristina: Like a lion, I guess. I don't know if it's like a combo of different animals, maybe.

Jack: Weird, right?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like it's unclear what we're looking at ultimately. What the h*** are they gonna claim the minotaur really is? If these are all the descriptors.

Cristina: Yeah, weird.

Jack: It's a weird creature for sure. And so slight fur covers the upper arms and usually the. The back of the hand, never the palm. Very gorilla. Like again.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It has very defined biceps and triceps. And again, veins visibly covering its arms. Like it's really ripped and jacked.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And then its legs, very strong muscular thighs and upper legs covered in coarse fur, particularly around the thighs. Hoofed feet instead of human like feet. Defined calves and thighs, Slightly bent knees in a stance, ready for action. Oftentimes like a goat or a bull or these kinds of animals, horses and whatnot, that have a position to sprint instantly into action. Usually wearing a leather and fur kilt used to hold potions and weapons or different. Of different types.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And for his legs, I also have a little descriptor, which is the stance and bent of the knees resembles that of animals much like a horse, bull, goat, or other animal, seemingly always at a slight bent angle. This is descriptors. This is again a paraphrased sentence from Greek. So.

Cristina: No, I don't know.

Jack: Yeah, it's some like, weird other thing, right?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So overall notes on stance are slightly hunched posture. It's never perfectly wrecked. It's always got like a sort of lean forward going on. It looks really aggressive no matter what it's doing. Like, it could just be relaxing and looking exceptionally aggressive. But. And because of this, it kind of always appears ready to attack, like a lot of these animals. Like a horse always looks ready to jump into action. Always so weird creature. Looking at the descriptions, I was like, this is kind of weird. So based on these notes, the animals you've listed or what?

Cristina: Goats, gorilla, lion, bull.

Jack: Bull and Human.

Cristina: Human, yes.

Jack: Got a couple of things going on, right?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Which one would you say is more dominant?

Cristina: The human, other than the human. Okay. Bull.

Jack: Bull, right. Looks very dominant. What would be second goat? Right. So we would say that the lion and the gorilla are almost not even present.

Cristina: Yeah. Except it has some tiny features that make it more lion, which is like the mouth is lionish.

Jack: I would argue that gorillas have sharp teeth.

Cristina: They do. Okay, Then the face is gorilla. Ish. But it has a mane that looks very lionish.

Jack: But also goats have that.

Cristina: Goats have that. Oh, yeah. And then the claws, though. That's not a ghost thing? That's not a gorilla thing?

Jack: No, it's totally not.

Cristina: It's not any of those creatures.

Jack: It has to be some cat or some s***, right?

Cristina: Yeah. So it look very odd.

Jack: It looks really weird. If you were to give this creature a name, what would it be? What type of creature is it? Not what species. But if you were to say this is classified as this, would you have a word for it?

Cristina: Crap. I'm pretty sure there's a word and I can't think of that word, but I know it. There is a word, is a word.

Jack: For a fusion of creatures.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: A chimera.

Cristina: Yes, it's a chimera.

Jack: It definitely comes across like a chimera. It looks like a fusion of things. So, yeah, that was weird. And so I was like, well, this is a chimera. I was like, this is interesting. Let's see what more I can find. Just details that exist in history about it.

Cristina: But the claws thing, it does have claws. Is that. That was the description?

Jack: Yeah. Has talons instead of nails.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: So looking for what is happening here, I went and looked for some behaviors associated with this thing. And it immediately led me to the fact that this thing is aggressive behavior wise, aggressive, savage. In nature, the Minotaur is depicted as a ferocious and bloodthirsty creature prone to violence and driven by primal instincts.

Cristina: Isn't it like protecting something?

Jack: What is it protecting?

Cristina: I don't know, like an entrance or something. It's kind of like the Locknik monster story where it's like there's a hideout and they're protecting it. So maybe he's protecting an entrance to something or a treasure or, you know.

Jack: Yeah. Feels like a troll you can't pass unless you get through me. Definitely. Definitely has that vibe. Right. It's known for killing and devouring those that cross its path, making it a feared and deadly adversary. Well, isolation is interesting with this creature, the Minotaur. Is known for its isolation, which could represent an inability to fit into either human or animal worlds because of its weird kind of night, neither here nor there vibe. And additionally, this sort of solitude might have contributed to its aggressive nature in the first place.

Cristina: Okay, so then when they're describing this creature, is it just one or are there a few of them known and being described?

Jack: There is one.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Which you will learn in the story of it.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: That I will tell you because you asked. So the story goes as follows. King Minos of Crete. Crete is the most populous of the Greek islands. It's the most populated. Offended Poseidon, one of the Greek researchers. Poseidon then cursed Minos by causing his wife, Queen Palisafe, to fall in love with the magnificent bull.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: As a result of this unnatural union, the Minotaur is born.

Cristina: Oh. Oh, okay. What? I thought he was the thing that she fell in love. Oh, my gosh.

Jack: No, she fell in love. He was just a dude. She fell in love with a bull and then kind of let the bull lay down some pipe.

Cristina: Okay. Okay.

Jack: Yeah. Bestiality. Casually to hide the monstrous offspring, King Minos ordered the construction of a labyrinth.

Cristina: Okay. That's exactly where I would imagine him being.

Jack: Okay, that word doesn't just stand out to you.

Cristina: A labyrinth, like what? Like the thing underneath Clinton Road. I don't know.

Jack: And, like, what else?

Cristina: There's another one. Labyrinth is the house counted as the house. That's how she has the house. Okay.

Jack: It's a maze. A labyrinth is another word for maze.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And her house was a maze. And so. Yeah. So he constructs a labyrinth. Huh? A creature from the Greek experiments or whatever the crap. This is some, you know, bestiality moment, and you create a labyrinth to put it in. Somehow the story immediately smells like bullshit and, like, you guys are covering something up to me.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Now, the labyrinth is beneath his palace where the Minotaur was imprisoned and fed with human sacrifices from Athens. Such a specific set of words and events.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Human sacrifices in a labyrinth?

Cristina: They might not be related. Okay. I mean, they could be, but, like, sacrifices could be something else happening down there.

Jack: Like what?

Cristina: Stones being made. I don't know.

Jack: Interesting. Okay, that's a great. What other thing?

Cristina: What other thing?

Jack: What do you think was happening in the house? That you would suggest stones in this labyrinth and not on that one?

Cristina: Oh, some type of portal to the other side. Great.

Jack: What do you think is happening at the bottom of Clinton Road? That you would suggest stones here and not there?

Cristina: I guess. Because I don't know about missing people because there's dead people here. I don't know the other two stories.

Jack: Clinton Road, where hundreds of people go missing. There's a whole point about that.

Cristina: Oh, well, then, yes, Maybe that's happening there too.

Jack: That's kind of why we looked there in the first place.

Cristina: Focus so much on the ghost story. I forget about the dead that are the people that are missing. Being missing doesn't mean they're dead because they're missing. Like, it's hard to say 100% while you're saying there are dead. These people are dead for sure.

Jack: Dead, like, well, he's feeding on them, so they're dead.

Cristina: So they're dead, but they're being sacrificed or something.

Jack: According to the words. Yes. Now, guardianship, the labyrinth's protector is ultimately the Minotaur because he's who's there all the time. And he acts as a guardian and gatekeeper of the labyrinth, making a symbol of challenge and an obstacle that must be overcome. People get thrown there, and if you can make it out, you are a warrior. Worth note. This is a challenge for you. You're gonna be sacrificed because you're a piece of crap who maybe broke some law. But if you make it out, you're one of our heroes and you're probably joining us.

Cristina: Okay, interesting.

Jack: Except how do you beat the Minotaur and then somebody else can go and face him. You didn't kill him. What does beating the Minotaur then mean?

Cristina: Reaching the doorway that he's protecting. I don't know.

Jack: I guess the way out. Yeah, just like they throw you in through this side, and there's no way to scale the wall. And somewhere there's a door with stairs, and he's going to try to kill you before you get there. Yeah, fair. So within the labyrinth, his behavior is labeled specifically as predatory hunting. Sort of, yeah. The Minotaur is often portrayed as hunting those who enter the domain, stalking them through the maze, like corridors of the labyrinth. A horror movie immediately. There should be a badass movie about this somewhere, about, like, running away from the Minotaur and is chasing you through the chambers or whatever.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Cool. Now trapping the victims, the victims themselves in there. So it serves as a trap, with the Minotaur lying in wait for unsuspecting victims who cannot find their way out. Which leans into what you're saying, a way out. There must be a way out. And you must find the way out before he finds you. So you don't have to kill him. You have to find your Way out. It's a game.

Cristina: There's no way you're gonna kill him.

Jack: There's no way you're gonna kill him. Is a 10 foot monster with weapons deader for a 10 foot monster.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So interesting. It's a game of sorts. Right. At least it seems like, you know, old school coliseum vibes.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: We throw you into the thing will here, will he not modern day. We would just trap every hallway with cameras and make it a show. There's a minotaur down there. It's. It's the Minotaur hour. And today's contestant is Bob. And Bob is gonna be tossing or hopefully he doesn't die on his way down. Then the crowd all cheers. Ah, hopefully doesn't die.

Cristina: Yeah. So we get FL flashbacks to him having an interview beforehand. Yes.

Jack: He, you know, when he sits in front of the camera, he's like, why are you doing this? Well, I feel like I'm the right guy and I can totally accomplish this. I want to be world champion of escaping Minotaur.

Cristina: Yes. And I also don't want to die because I stole.

Jack: Yeah. You know, I was being put to death and I was like, I'll do the minotaur run.

Cristina: I'm fast.

Jack: Yeah. And then I'll become a warrior. Just don't kill me. So. Yeah, fair enough. Like I would watch that show. Just don't throw innocent people. Throw people who have it coming. I mean, theft isn't enough to be thrown in a cage, to be murdered viciously by some monster 10 times your size. And to be fair, we've described it as a human and bull. So it's an animal for sure. And it could smell you. So it's probably way harder to win this than you think.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: It could just find you through scent. And also it knows where people are being thrown to.

Cristina: Yes. There's many.

Jack: My bet would be the only way this could really work. There has to be multiple routes that you can take. Otherwise it's not fair. You're always going to cross paths. Because the idea would be he would start at the door out and you would start at the only way in. So you got to find your way through the maze to the door out. And he's going to start at the door out and try to hunt you. So there must be more than one way to get there so that if he goes one, maybe you can dodge him.

Cristina: Well, that's very maze like. Yeah, exactly.

Jack: Checks out. But he can also track you better because he's an animal who can probably smell you.

Cristina: Yes. Or if it's like Quincen row, then there's many ways in and many ways out. You just have to get out of. Not. You can't go through the way you came in. That's probably the only rule.

Jack: Fair. And unless you. Yeah. Cuz you probably got pushed in from some height that you can't compensate because you're human. But yeah, there's probably multiple ways. And to make it more complicated, assuming because of the nature of what we're talking about, a maze, it's probably not just many ways in and many ways out, but I think literally one way in and one way out. But you can go to a dead end.

Cristina: Many dead ends.

Jack: Not know it's a dead end. And it just connects you to a whole other part of the maze. Somewhere where you just pop up and you're like, I don't. I'm super confused now. So it's probably a mess like that where you could enter all the way at the farthest left, pop up all the way at the farthest right. So you gotta figure this mess out. Like that. But interesting. Again, if that's the case, then it's a little harder for the minotaur to catch you, thus making it more even Your scent is on this side and then it just pops up over there. But you're also heavily confused roaming these halls.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Thus kind of a level playing field at that point.

Cristina: I can't imagine many winners though, right? Or any winner. I don't know.

Jack: So what do we think is actually happening based on this? We're talking about a game, but they're talking about you throw an individual into the maze and this creature hunts you. What's happening?

Cristina: What's happening? Well, if he. I don't know if he's. He's not part of the gods, he's just a random guy. So what could he possibly have to protect? How is he important to anything, this king?

Jack: Well, he's not said to be protecting anything other than the maze. According to the narrative, he's trying to eat whatever thrown in. So it's just a, you know, it's punishment system where you can probably make it out. I guess the reward is if you don't feed him, you get out. Yes, but you're likely just gonna feed him. I think that's the case, right?

Cristina: I think so. I don't know. There seems like something's off. Something's off. Yeah, for sure.

Jack: Okay, I'm going to tell you about the non accepted narrative by looking at.

Cristina: Oh wait, I just got or just remember something. How do people know all his descriptions? Was there a winner because of that?

Jack: Fascinating point.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Oh, fascinating point.

Cristina: Or are there guards? Other guards? No, I don't think so.

Jack: Nobody goes in. Nobody goes in.

Cristina: Yeah. Yeah.

Jack: So that's a great question. Good question. Now I'm gonna give you the correction of these stories from many different sources that aren't the accepted narrative.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: These are mentions in other areas about this. Now, there's an individual called Apollodorus of Athens, and he is one of the authors. He's the literal primary author of the accepted narrative first. So all of the above details came from that individual. Okay, that's from Apollodorus of Athens. So I'm gonna go to a guy named Virgil. Really? His whole name is Publius Virgilius Maro, and the writing is called Virgil's Anaid. This is the text in which he mentions the Minotaur. And he says. Now he only mentions it in passing, by the way. So he chooses to focus on what he deemed more important, which was the labyrinth and its construction. Interesting details he gives us. He claims labyrinth was constructed by Daedalus, which is an individual of note in Greek mythology. Originally learned of the labyrinth during a visit to the temple of Apollo at Kume, where he sees a depiction of the labyrinth on the doors of the temple. Somebody had the maze's layout on their door engraved. On a temple's door engraved. Interesting things happening already. Now we're getting to texts we're more familiar with. Temples and mazes checks out. Okay. The labyrinth is described as inextricable maze with bewildering windings. Checks out to be a maze, very maze like. Descriptions of a maze also described as baffling and confusing. Now a maze whines and takes you to dead ends. For it to be baffling and confusing is hinting towards incoherent nature of it, which would suggest they go on one side, pop out of the other.

Cristina: Okay, yeah.

Jack: Why are you getting baffled and like, how the h*** did I do?

Cristina: Or if it's like that house where like the doors, the stairs lead to nowhere.

Jack: Yes, it could totally.

Cristina: Or the door leads to nowhere or whatever the case.

Jack: Interesting enough, what we know about that house is that this lady built it. Most likely not for that side, but when she died to go to the other side to have a house to roam. She was also the most prominent phantom there.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And she was also one of the only seeming non echoes there. Interesting. And now this place is also confusing. When you were asking where the Minotaur was located in that image. That was just probably a corridor of this maze. This means the Minotaur is described as being at the very center of the maze, coming outward to Hunt. Checks out, except for one problem with the logic. You must be starting at one end. The exit must be at the opposite end. And he starts between the two points. See? Only way it would make sense. There's no way you're trying to get to the middle. No, you gotta get out.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So he's starting halfway between those two points, and he's gonna try to find you, and you're gonna try to avoid it.

Cristina: That's tough.

Jack: On your way to the door.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: As it seems, these are the only mentions we get from Publius Virgilius Maro. So we go then to a different individual that has another quick passing mention. Aristotle's notes in his library.

Cristina: Oh, my gosh. Okay.

Jack: In his notes, he briefly mentions the Minotaur and refers to him by name as Asterius. Now, you look up Asterias and you'll find variations of this name. Asterias and Asterion. Great. But he gave him a name. That's pretty sweet. Gives us another place to start with. Okay. Anyhow, there's one more writer of prominence that matters here. His name is Euripides. Euripides. So Euripides writings say. Which is a collection. So in his collection of writings, the Minotaur is a result of. Now, this is where it gets weird. This guy is way more obscure, way harder to find, and surprisingly, the guy who has completely different terminology. The Minotaur is a result of a progressive advancement in alchemy.

Cristina: What.

Jack: AKA the sciences of that time.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Claims that Queen Pasiphy was the subject of this alchemic procedure.

Cristina: That makes more sense.

Jack: That makes way more sense and is way more along the lines that we would agree with.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: The second subject was a babylos. A Babylon is a half bison, half bull.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: Chimera.

Cristina: Okay, so that plus her equals this thing Pretty much.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: We took an experiment and then combined it with her. Made her experiment.

Jack: You didn't combine her. You used her DNA.

Cristina: Yeah. Yeah.

Jack: Because it was a child. We know the union quote resulted in this. So it's a child of sorts. Some sort of assembly or some. Test tube baby.

Cristina: Test tube baby for sure.

Jack: Right. Some weird. And now we're in the territories we've heard about before. Weird experiments.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: How interesting. Weird experiments that Poseidon was running.

Cristina: Yeah. Makes sense.

Jack: Interesting. Right. Now, it specifically says Chimera, created by Poseidon. By the way. An alchemic process resulted in the two creatures referred to as brothers.

Cristina: What?

Jack: Yes. Now let's take a look again so that you could be quite blown away by what we're looking at. It resulted in two creatures which referred to as brothers.

Cristina: Now you're saying those two things are two different creatures, not one creature being described two different ways.

Jack: These are two different individuals.

Cristina: Okay. Which is the human version? I guess they are both.

Jack: They're twins.

Cristina: They're twins. Okay. And they both came from this lady.

Jack: They're both from the same woman. And the same father. The same mother. Same father, yes.

Cristina: So one of them, though, looks more like a human. A human. And the other one looks more like the father.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Half bison. Half. What was it?

Jack: Half bison, half bull.

Cristina: Bull, yeah.

Jack: Interesting, right?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So this seems to have been lost in mythology. People have mentioned it, but the main narrative, over repeated durations, sort of fused them into one individual. Go back to Aristotle's notes. And he gave us two names.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Yeah. See?

Cristina: Oh, this lady was experimented on.

Jack: Yeah. The two names again being Asterius and Asterion. Asterias is the traditional Minotaur we are familiar with. And then Asterion is the quadruped.

Cristina: Quadruped walks on four legs. Oh, okay.

Jack: The more animalistic one.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Weird, right?

Cristina: Yes, Very strange.

Jack: Additionally, Euripides gives us a nice little detail that is so hard to find outside of his writing that it is baffling. And I've never heard it before until I saw the word. First I saw the word in Greek, and then I had to translate the word from Greek. So the alchemic process resulted in the two creatures referred to as brothers, which are Asterias and Asterion. Asterias, the Minotaur, is brother to Asterion, the Toro Boban. Those two individuals describe their different physical structures. The Minotaur, very human, like the Toroboban, very animalistic. Both twin siblings.

Cristina: Where is the Toro Boban being kept?

Jack: I just told you that the narrative got fused and turned them into one.

Cristina: Yes, but. So in. But then they're both living in the maze.

Jack: Yes. Okay, so the claims by Euripides go. The Minotaur would result reside in the very center of the maze, protecting what he referred to as the entrance. At the center of the maze is the entrance, not where the person you throw in there to die goes in through just something he referred to as the entrance.

Cristina: Okay. Which could be his entrance into the maze, maybe. No, but then he can't go in.

Jack: And out, so he can't go in and out.

Cristina: It's very strange to call it the entrance or not strange if it's not really an entrance in the way. We're thinking, like, if it's more like a portal.

Jack: Like that.

Cristina: Yes, like the house.

Jack: The entrance at the house was just what looked like a seance room, as referred to like a sandro. Yeah, but it was just an entrance.

Cristina: Entrance, but it wasn't. It was just a room.

Jack: No, it was an entrance, but I guess it was literally an entrance, just not for us. Yes, but it was an entrance. This is not an incorrect terminology. You're not. Don't discredit the word entrance. It is an entrance. He's not wrong. He didn't write it. And you're over here correcting him. No, that is the right word. It's an entrance.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: We just got a question. What kind of an entrance? And we have an example of an entrance at the center of literally a maze.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Very similar scenario. The Minotaur, what we're familiar with, is at the center of the maze. It's weird that the Toro Boban isn't the one at the center of the maze and that people never see the entrance. So we don't know about the Tora Boban. People have made it to the entrance because they see the Minotaur. It's easier, it seems, to evade the Toro Boban.

Cristina: But he's the one probably eating them.

Jack: The Toro boban.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Yeah, he's definitely the one killing them out there.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And then anybody who makes it all the way to the Minotaur, you then have a fight in your hands that you're probably not gonna win. And he's about to eat too.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: These two creatures got fused into one and lost a history. Never before have I seen this. The Toro Boban would roam the maze. Hunting the prey is the very next line.

Cristina: Yeah, that sounds like what we thought. Yep. Yep.

Jack: Although that's been attributed to the Minotaur. That is incorrect. The animalistic one is the one roaming those halls, those corridors, while the one most man like stands dead center, waiting casually.

Cristina: Yeah, but even if you make it to that entrance, quote unquote, you're not really getting out. Even if you can pass him, because that's not the actual way.

Jack: No. They're not protecting an exit.

Cristina: No.

Jack: You're meant to die there.

Cristina: Yes. If you made it there, you go the wrong way.

Jack: Yeah, exactly. There's probably a way out. It's just not that way. And that is a way in for something else. Yeah, you're not going to that side. If you can't, I won't let you. I'm only here to let them in, not you out.

Cristina: I mean, maybe you can come back in that way after he's done with you.

Jack: Now, based on the pattern we're looking at, there's some things we could question here. If that is an entrance, that means that there is another exit. Because the entrance is where the Minotaur is. The exit must be elsewhere. The exit to the maze must be elsewhere because the Minotaur is blocking the entrance.

Cristina: Yes. Yeah.

Jack: That is the entrance, not the exit. It's specifically labeled as the entrance. And we know what kind of interest they're referring to. Yes, because we have another example of it. But how do we know more about the Minotaur than we do about the Torah Boban? The people telling the story were never human. They must have originated the narrative. It's Jinn or something coming through. And they're most likely to see the Minotaur on the way in.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Then the Toro Boban roaming the halls. They would never come across. He's at the door. He's the first thing you see when you come through the Minotaur.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: There's no reason you would see the Torah Boban unless you stumbled into him writing these stories.

Cristina: Are community communicating with ghost. Question.

Jack: Not ghost with Jin.

Cristina: Yeah, but it's like the same to those people.

Jack: Not if they came through.

Cristina: Like they have physical bodies when they come through.

Jack: Like all of the Djinn that come through, you see? So whatever's coming through that becomes physical. Just like the Jinn that interact in all these other groups, it's a physical thing. Those individuals then come in contact with perhaps the individuals telling these stories.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And inform them about what they saw. And 99 times out of a hundred, the only thing you saw there was Minotaur.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Because the other one is roaming the halls.

Cristina: Yes. To kill humans, not to kill.

Jack: To kill the punished.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: So they're not hunting Djinns or. None. They're just interested in the humans.

Jack: Yes. They're being fed to do their job. Interesting. Two outcast brothers put in this maze, and they're gonna be fed. It's not really outcast if they're kind of down with it and performing almost a duty. It becomes almost like they were made for this purpose because the maze was made for this purpose. And then your only thing was to put them there. These are op. You could use these for a lot of things, but you put them in the maze and have one Roaming the halls. And the other one guarding, quote, the entrance, unquote.

Cristina: Yes. Like this. This was gonna happen whether that lady was involved or not.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Somebody's being punished.

Jack: But, like, I don't think so. I think that's bullshit story.

Cristina: Oh, you think that part is?

Jack: I think that. Yeah, I think that's all fake narrative.

Cristina: Oh, okay. Yeah, Yeah.

Jack: I think it was just ways to explain it by people who didn't know what was going on.

Cristina: Yeah, like the other story with the.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Queen that turned into Snake.

Jack: Yeah, exactly. It's just, you know, warped stories, People trying to comprehend crap. So the Toro Boban is something lost to history, something lost in text. Now, it's mentioned in passing and here and there, casually, very hard to find. But if you look hard enough, it shows up. The Toro Boban called Asterion, and the Minotaur called Asterias, they were named to begin with. Their names were also lost. It's very hard to find their names.

Cristina: Their names are very similar to each other.

Jack: Yes. So things to note about this. We've come across mazes, as we know, and they kind of resemble the scenario.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And even if there's no particular maze structure in Clinton Road other than. And it's not even a maze, more than just some weird private area with entrance and exits that we're unfamiliar with, that's not maze. Like, there's probably a straight shot there. We just don't know how to get there. But the. The underground and the whole setup on top where you could, like, literally walk down this way and then pop up over there. But there is a town there that's like a maze, which is Paradise.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: And you go into paradise and the roads start changing on you and the exits start changing on you. Interesting. There's a maze there too. Sort of.

Cristina: Sort of. Yeah.

Jack: New modern age maze. But we go way far back. There's literally a labyrinth. We go in the middle between these two points, we have a house that's weird and confusing. And we jump a little more further up and we have a town that's equally confusing. So it's the same layout. Presumably at the center of paradise, there must be what? A gate in the center of Paradise. Two different instances are hinting towards the third one.

Cristina: Have you looked up stories about Paradise?

Jack: That is the next goal for sure. Because now we have a point of reference.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Now we have a way to look at it other than it's a town. What stories do people know about the town? Like, people don't know things. No, we need reference.

Cristina: Yes. Okay.

Jack: And now we have perspective, we can start looking. Is there anything weird that's ever happened at the center of paradise? Has anybody seen anything like this or that?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: In paradise?

Cristina: Probably. Then we call it the Jersey Devil. Who knows?

Jack: Yes. Any possibility? Yes, exactly. Something is at the center of paradise. Maybe we were looking in the wrong locations. And where we should have been looking all along was the maze. Paradise. This is my point. We have no idea how to. The place is too big. There's too much crap there. Perspective.

Cristina: Too much going on.

Jack: Too much perspective is so important. We have to get informed elsewhere and then come back. There's some unrelated nonsense. Since it totally turned out related.

Cristina: Yes. Was that your goal?

Jack: No, no. I'm just getting information from any. Again, anything that relates to any of the groups or any of the things could hint.

Cristina: Okay, so something reminds you of this and then you went on this hunt.

Jack: Yeah. No. Not reminded me of this per se, but I'm just looking at things and creatures and I stumble upon the thing and you know, chase random threads and see where they go. If nothing, go over there. I tell you, the ones that do connect, there's a bunch of crap that doesn't. If it's interesting enough, I don't care. If it doesn't, I'll tell you anyways.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But amazing. I think there's something at the center of paradise.

Cristina: Yes. And we gotta find it. Yep.

Jack: If anything, it has to be some sort of a portal because we're two for two.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: The distinct role of the brothers and how the more humanoid of the two would stay at the entrance is of note. That's definitely a welcome party. Not just blocking somebody from the maze, getting to the door and going through some private location you shouldn't be heading to. Like the hidden gate at the seance room. It's almost like you're trying to prevent people going through to the other side. You just want things to come through onto this side.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And putting the more human of the two there instead of having the more human of the two walking the halls, you're. It's a welcome party. You have somebody who could, like, I can guide you to where you need to go.

Cristina: Yes, Guide them. Yes.

Jack: Instead of a freaking half monstrous bull looking thing that you're like. That looks like the kinds of crap we kill on my end.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: You know, you want something humanoid and like, oh, yeah, I'm here to point.

Cristina: The way or something. Yes.

Jack: Then again, I'm sure he's the welcome party and kind of sets you up for My brother is going to guide you. He's my brother. You're safe. Instead of the brother, be the one who show up. The Toro Boban. You're like, oh, my God, Did I go through the wrong door? Okay, so have the humanoid one speak to you and be looking like a human. And then the Toro Boban that roams the halls would escort you to the actual door that it's familiar with. How to get to.

Cristina: I don't know. I think they avoid him completely because there is no stories of the other guy because the other guy's just murdering.

Jack: Fair enough. Right? They would have mentioned them, too. Yes. You're totally right. They're not seeing him at all. Meaning the. The Minotaur actually leaves its post.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Because at the end of the day, nobody's getting that far.

Cristina: No.

Jack: And one trip isn't gonna suddenly allow the person to just get to the door.

Cristina: Yep. The only one anyone sees is the Minnow Tower.

Jack: And anybody who maybe the Torah Boban is kind of like my bro, you know, My brother's kind of off edge, so you stay with me. I'll tell him you're good, and we'll go to the door, and you can exit. But if you come across my brother.

Cristina: Without me, maybe that's why he's so buff, in case he has to fight off the brother. Although they never mention it.

Jack: They don't mention it? No.

Cristina: They work together according to the avoiding or. Yeah. They just stay away from each other. Okay.

Jack: It could be that they stay away from each other, but, I mean, I guess it could be. There's no mention they do. Well, no. They both eat, and they both stop anything from getting to that door.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So they're sharing.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So I'm assuming they're still cool with each other. Maybe the Toro Bowman is just way more aggressive, and he's like, keep all that other away from me. I don't want to. I don't want any part of this.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: While the. The Minotaurs is, you know, more humanoid. I'm more accepted. He is definitely way more rejected than I am.

Cristina: Yes. But he's not a social creature, either, at least in the descriptions I think you gave of him.

Jack: Yeah. Isolated. Both of them are.

Cristina: Yeah. So he's just doing his job. I think it's not to socialize or anything.

Jack: Just like in both of their cases, they're just doing their jobs. Yeah. It just so happens to be that one is at the door and probably the escort to the exit.

Cristina: Yeah. That's it.

Jack: Follow me. And I'LL get you out at the end. Interesting, right? Very. Again, so much of this lost to repeat iteration. Yeah, it just gets lost in translation. The area referred to as the entrance being the center of the labyrinth, opposed to being the entrance being on the outer edges, is very informative. That's definitely a way in from somewhere else. And we have examples which heavily enlightened that this is existing at the center of paradise, at least. Most likely.

Cristina: Most likely.

Jack: Even if not, it seems most likely the experimentation that Poseidon performed as to result in the Babylons to begin with. So he was already creating weird things, made this chimera and then use this chimera to make a double chimera.

Cristina: Yeah, to make a few more, you.

Jack: Know, chimera twice removed. I made that thing and I'm gonna use that thing to make something else. Merge this cool other thing with a human.

Cristina: Which he probably has other experiments too.

Jack: Yes. Based on this, there must be a plethora of experiments that are hard to find that Poseidon has performed. Weird.

Cristina: That's very weird because, like, the. The unicorns aren't theirs. Not the unicorns. The. Yeah, the unicorns aren't theirs. And they thought that was weird about the unicorns. But, like, there's creatures in Greek that would remind you of the unicorns. Like, you would think those are animals from there.

Jack: Well, I have a reason why they would think it's weird. The Minotaur and the toro boban don't seem to have weird supernatural powers.

Cristina: Okay. Yes. Because the unicorn could fly.

Jack: The unicorn can just levitate and they're like, how the h*** did you do that?

Cristina: Yeah. Because if they do have unicorns from there as well, they wouldn't be. They would hover. They would just. They would be more horse like.

Jack: Yes. They would have other things going on. The best they keep in mind. Keep in mind that they have no version of this. Their imitation of a unicorn is a Pegasus. It's still not powers. It's a physical thing. You gave it wings so it could fly. Yeah, because theirs doesn't have wings and can just take off into the sky. And you still have no idea.

Cristina: No.

Jack: So we're looking at the Greek can make chimera. But the Alicians don't need to waste their time merging two animals. They could just take a random animal and jacket.

Cristina: Don't know what they did. Don't know how it's possible.

Jack: But also, we do know how it's possible because the Greek have no idea how the h*** the stones were being made. They were referring them they were just referencing always different, different versions of adrenochrome. They're drowning in that.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: While the Elysians figured out the stone that they could just use to make the unicorn.

Cristina: Okay. Yeah.

Jack: Logic. There's. Their methods are so different, and they can result in kind of sort of the same things.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But through vastly different methods. These are two very, extremely different sciences taking place. Interesting, because we have a third completely different science in modern day.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So we're looking at. The Greek had one version of science that does not reflect anything the Elicians did or anything we've ever done. Then the Elysians have some form of science that doesn't reflect anything we've ever done or anything the Greek have ever done. And we have a version of science that doesn't reflect anything the Greek ever did or anything the Alicians ever did.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Science is not one way.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: There are roads to take, and some people find other ways. And this is a great example of the building stones we know about. The Elysians never consumed adrenochrome, as far as we can tell. But avoiding that killed quite a lot of people.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: While the Greek didn't have to kill mass people. They would just have to continuously, you know, kill one here, kill one there to consume the adrenochrome. But they have to remain hooked up.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So in order to not be hooked, you got to take a lot of life.

Cristina: That's tricky. There's life. Either way, you're losing life, no matter.

Jack: Losing life no matter what. Interesting. Interesting. Two vastly different sciences. And it makes total logic how you got the stone, and the stone breaks the laws of nature, so a unicorn becomes possible. You over here aren't breaking the laws of nature. You have no idea how the h*** they did that. So you're just altering your physical makeup through literal chemicals. And so in the same kind of way, you could do that. Something else.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Alter the physical makeup at birth and then you got some other thing. Totally different sciences, totally different products. It's awesome that they line up in logical kind of ways, but. Yeah, it's weird. Weird. The unicorn thing versus the Pegasus thing. The different sciences, the methods they took to get there. Fascinating man. Poseidon. Creating chimeras is weird. It's a hat that's not mentioned more. But again, we're talking about real obscure lost information.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And it's just fascinating that he. He kind of. We haven't heard of experiments on experiments.

Cristina: Yeah, I guess.

Jack: Yeah. But it would make sense if you can't just do it the first time with a stone. You have to won't A plus B equals C. Then I use C plus D, so on and so forth. Because it's literal, more practical. As opposed to just breaking laws of physics and nature. And as a result of all of this crap, the Tora Bobon gets lost to history and fused in literature to the Minotaur. Ultimately making it look like they've been one all along when they weren't. There's a weird turn.

Cristina: There's gotta be more creatures.

Jack: More double triple, quadruple experiments going on.

Cristina: Yeah. Just like the they when they made the Nagas. They made a bunch of Naga variations of them.

Jack: Trying to get to. But we didn't see see Keto experiment on an existing Naga.

Cristina: No.

Jack: Or an existing Grogan, which isn't a Naga. Just trying to. But he didn't succeed in making it to the way that he would call a Naga. So he made Medusa. And then like this is weak. He didn't work on Medusa's DNA again. He started again from scratch.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: While Poseidon is leveled up, bro. He understood. Nah, just work on the thing already. Use that.

Cristina: I like what I made, but I want to get. Yeah, yeah.

Jack: I want to make it better. So I'm not going to start from scratch. I'm improve on the model.

Cristina: Fascinating scientist.

Jack: It seems he would be. But he is amongst the group. And here is just a different visual of the exact same duo. Looking a little more, you know, casual next to each other. No longer in the same image, but a more accurate depiction of what you'd look at.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Still with the red eyes.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Pretty horrifying.

Jack: Both quite aggressive and menacing looking. Those features kind of line up ultimately. But yeah, when you look at it, it really is just a.

Cristina: They look like they're related.

Jack: They totally do. They totally do. Yeah.

Cristina: Yeah. You could think that was there. It's werewolf version if that was a thing.

Jack: Yep. But you end up with this result of like these two born at the same time. Twin brothers. Both isolated individuals. Highly aggressive, ginormous, 7 to 10ft tall individuals. But looking at this creature has informed us on Paradise Road that leads to the town of Paradise. Yes. Now this random thing aimed because the maze was what mattered here. Yeah. We learned about a cool other experiment. Dope. Pretty awesome that we found some kind of real hidden knowledge. But all of this was just entertainment purposes. Because the knowledge we should all be taking from here is another maze with another gate at the center.

Cristina: Has to be.

Jack: And we have a third maze that we've never looked at because we thought it was just, you know, the jumbled nature of the shadow realm. But that doesn't make sense. The veil wouldn't be so thin there. That's a place meant to channel an entrance.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: We just gotta find the entrance. Which would be harder to find the closer to the center you get.

Cristina: Presumably, for sure, because it would be.

Jack: More, I don't know, more jumbled, harder to get the closer you get. You take a wrong turn, you might find your way all the way to the beginning again.

Cristina: Yeah. Yes. I think we found something. Or we're gonna find something. I think we're gonna find something.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. Anyways, that's what I have, the Minotaur, which is not one individual, but rather the Minotaur and the Toro Boban both got crushed into one word, Minotaur. But Minotaur is only one individual. Asterias, the bipedal, one of the two.

Cristina: The other one being the quadrip.

Jack: Asterion. Asterias is the Mena, the minotaur, and Asterion is the quadruped.

Cristina: Okay, beautiful.

Jack: Anyways, anybody who has any input, any information, if you got enlightened. Yeah. If you found that interesting, if you concluded something we didn't think about that's hidden in this data we went through, tell us, message us, communicate with us, hit us up on our socials at just convopod on X, on Facebook, on Instagram, on Tick tock, wherever the h*** you want, find us.

Cristina: Remember to subscribe, rate and review the show.

Jack: Yeah. And word of the mouth, talk to people. Tell them, not just you hit us up, but you tell people to come and listen. Especially people who like Greek mythology or people who like any kind of mythology or supernatural things. Or weird things.

Cristina: Or weird things. Yeah.

Jack: It's all here.

Cristina: It's all there.

Jack: We do pretty fringy stuff.

Cristina: This has been the Rambling Podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks, bro. Listening. Bye.

Jack: Foreign.

Cristina: Good morning. Good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by great dots.info art by 0lupo and logo by Seth McAllister with social media managed by Amber Black.

August 31, 2024

Rambling 287: Lamia

August 31, 2024/ GreyThoughts.Info

Who is the Greek Mistress Lamia? What is the narrative surrounding her death? What is the truth surrounding her death? The duo unpack the mythology of an interesting creature known as Lamia, a mistress of a Greek God and what really unfolded with their affair.

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed:

Greek Mythology
Naga
Romantic Jealousy
Hera
Snake Pits
Shapeshifting
Necromancers
Jesus Christ

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

+Transcription

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in five, four.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And this is the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas. And today we have some interesting things to learn look into. But first, as of late, we've been catching people up because of our jumping around. Anybody who is used to us following a giant cohesive narrative that we've been following for like two years isn't used to the old way. We were doing things of just casually picking things that kind of sort of related to this bigger theme that we didn't know existed. But we were just hunting monsters and figuring out what was going on. Except after a long enough deep dive into what we thought was an unrelated series of things that began with a creature, the unicorn, slowly spiraled into. Every creature seems to be related to this thing one way or another.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And initially we thought a lot of it had to do with the Elysians. When we started looking into the Elysians, but before then, we knew things about the shadow realm and many creatures who were in there. So we were hunting things like that. But before we knew about the shadow Realm, we were also just hunting creatures, trying to find out what the f*** these things are. We thought some of them are aliens. We thought some of them were interdimensional things. And weirdly enough, both of those things are kind of the same.

Cristina: Yeah, I guess so. Yeah.

Jack: You know, we knew this Chupacara was like a God like thing. And we thought it came from space looking for things. But no, it did come from elsewhere. But the elsewhere wasn't space. The elsewhere was a different realm.

Cristina: I don't know if you know anything that actually has come from space.

Jack: No, we know things that have gone out into space.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But it seems that everything we thought came from space we have proven with texts that mentioned it before we even looked up. And it's like, okay, okay, you guys knew about all these things ahead of time. So I was in trying to dig deeper into the Clinton Road thing that we've been looking at. We hit some walls because we gotta find things for this. We gotta figure out what's happening in the bottom of the castle. It's been sealed off. It clearly has a way in and out in a location that is undisclosed to the public because it's been kept absolutely secret with, you know, official reasons or whatnot.

Cristina: Whatnot.

Jack: But the castle it was on was Destroyed. So the entrance there is gone and the exit have been blocked and built around, so we don't know where they exist in the five towns that they're spread into. And then somewhere in this giant property, there could be a random manhole cover that's covered by leaves and happens to be in the woods. And that's the only way in or out of this f******. Like, who the h*** knows?

Cristina: It just sounds so suspicious. It just sounds like that lady with the house that makes it into a puzzle that ends up being a portal for ghosts and whatever.

Jack: Except she wasn't trying to hide anything that was just out there. So why were these people trying to hide it? What is the difference? And this is more recent than the house, too, so what is the point? And, like, I've tried to look. Like I said, the hardest thing about this was gonna be the castle. So we visited the castle.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But all it did was lead us to walls. So because we hit these walls and there's nowhere else to go. Look elsewhere. Maybe we'll get informed.

Cristina: Right, okay.

Jack: So we've gotten informed in the past just by looking at other places. We found the Elysians, and that informed a bunch of s***. We found the Shadow Realm. That informed a bunch of s***. Things that we thought were unrelated. So as I'm looking through random crap, looking through old notes, I come across as, you know, the fact that Zeus was kind of pretty successful at creating Nahaz.

Cristina: Okay, yeah.

Jack: Not Naha's Naga. Nahaz was a specific. Naga is the one from the Garden of Eden's research team. Nahaz is the one we call the Serpent. But so we know that he successfully made a Naga, and we know that he got his Naga to successfully make some that worked and some that didn't, like Medusai and her sisters and crap like that.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Yes, okay. But still have kind of OP abilities that are kind of sort of fairy like. And in looking at that, it came to my mind that, wait, this is the first instance of more than one, more than two, Many, Several. And so I'm like, okay, if you figured it out, you didn't also just stop. Those just happened to be the main narratives, right? The ones that are important because you figured it out, you want to be able to replicate it, and holy s***. That I immediately find something. I was like, there must be more. Just logically speaking, if nobody else could figure it out, the guy who did is probably going to mass produce them. That's the advantage right there.

Cristina: You're OP now he has a Naga army.

Jack: He Would have to. Right. He would have to build. I mean, not a Naga army, but he would have to make multiple. Logically speaking. And I stumble upon a thing called Lamia. L A M I A Lamia. And Lamia is described as a half woman, half serpent. But Lamia is not Medusa or the other Groguns. And Lamia is not Glycon. And Lamia is none of these things.

Cristina: She's from the same area.

Jack: She's Greek.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: She's Greek, specifically related to Zeus. Oh, weird. So I was like, okay, this is odd. But like, we can easily find it now because. Yeah, you had more than one and you instructed something to make it. Just because we only stumbled upon the three and didn't dig deeper, doesn't there isn't more? Yes, but there's definitely more. She's not even the only one I found.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But she's the most interesting one I found. So, as we said, she was originally mentioned in Greek mythology. And very specifically, the same thing that shows up again is half woman, half serpent. Half woman, half serpent. Very, very directly. It seems like Zeus wants Kido to continue making things that are half and half, not fully one. Or Kido is obsessed with not actually succeeding and going halfway because he wants to be the powerful one.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: I don't know the point of why they're always half and half. If a Naga is not. Anaga is not. Yeah, Anaga is a full fairy serpent.

Cristina: Serpent thing.

Jack: Yeah, absolutely. 100% a serpent.

Cristina: For some reason, he only makes halves and halves.

Jack: All of them are. Now they're really overpowered to the point that they are more OP than a bunch of the s***. Alicians didn't like some of this crap because of how OP it is. Meaning they felt, you know, some of these things were a problem to some degree, but they weren't. Naga, is it because it's impossible to actually go all the way? But no, because we know of people who've accomplished it.

Cristina: Yeah. So did they do it on purpose? And what was the purpose?

Jack: What is ultimately the purpose? So I dive into the story to just what do the Greek have to say about this? What is the main narrative about Lamia? So here we go. First of all, Lamia was the queen of Libya according to the Greeks.

Cristina: What?

Jack: She was the queen of Libya. Okay, but weird that the queen of Libya is a half serpent, half a woman. But whatever. The Greek had weird stories to tell.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: You know, everything was odd. Now, where this became really interesting to me is the fact that she was in love and loved by Zeus.

Cristina: Okay, yeah. Well, she always have snakes, though. Is that part of her story? Okay.

Jack: She's always been.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Always been half serpent. And Zeus is into serpents, I guess.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And upon finding out that Zeus was having an affair with her, Hera becomes jealous and curses Lamia to lose her children.

Cristina: Oh, hush. Okay.

Jack: And transforms her into a monster who would devour the children of others.

Cristina: Oh, my gosh. Whoa.

Jack: Hardcore.

Cristina: Hardcore.

Jack: So let's unpack this for a bit. Zeus loves a half serpent lady, but I guess he's a God and he f**** random s***. Like, whatever, dude, you're God. What is a human to you? You're a God.

Cristina: He's with someone who is not cool with.

Jack: He's someone who's not cool with that. But he's always cheating on her. All his children are from different women. And he has, like, 100.

Cristina: Yes. But does she get her revenge like this to every single lady?

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Like, how does.

Jack: Hera is. Hera is known as a total b****.

Cristina: He's also a monster. That's okay. With the reaction. Her reaction. Whatever he does. Because he's not getting hurt. It's just the people he's with getting hurt, and he's not feeling that well.

Jack: The logic goes as follows. He loves one person deeply, and that's Hera. He loves other people. Not deeply. He loves to love. It's the idea of, you can truly be in love with one person and love many other people who you're not in love with. Yeah, you want to be romantic, and, yeah, you want to f*** and you want to have. But there's one person who you are committed to.

Cristina: But do you not feel bad for these people that are suffering?

Jack: Well, they know they are also involved. They are not an uninformed party.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: In all of these cases, they are the informed party. Everybody's informed.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Zeus is not a liar.

Cristina: There's a chance that you'll die or you'll have to kill your loved ones to be with me. That's. That's tough.

Jack: No, I'm sure all of these God women are like, I could take. Oh, I guarantee you, every single one of them. The gods are full of themselves.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Every single one is like, I could take her. It's not a problem. But Zeus has always been committed to Hera. And he's like, I'm not gonna say to my wife, she said, you banned, so you banned.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But Hera is fine until she's not.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Like, she knows. And then I guess she just doesn't want to see it ultimately just like, don't bring it around me. Don't bring it around me. You come home to me and you don't bring any of them b****** around me. And when she sees them b******, them b****** gotta die or become other s*** or whatever the f*** she does.

Cristina: Just live a miserable, miserable life.

Jack: Yes. But to his defense, he 100% seems absolutely committed to Hera, because that's who he doesn't violate. She's like, I gotta kill this person. He's like, s***, I guess you gotta kill this b****. And it's like, d***, bro. Okay, you at least committed, okay? And like, I respect that. I respect the guy who can stay committed. And realistically, yeah, you love other people. Realistically, but you're not going to betray who you're in love with, which is Hera. Great important detail because of where this is going to go.

Cristina: Really?

Jack: That was. That was not without purpose. That rant was absolutely within reason. All right, so, yeah, Hera kind of notorious for tossing people into weird situations, killing them, turning into other s***, ranking them, sending them into other f****** planes of existence.

Cristina: Do you know what kind of monster she turned her into? Like, what does she look like?

Jack: He. She made her existing form feral. She was a woman, and now that woman became a monster based on that woman. Oh, so it's just she became a feral monster. She was still a woman snake thing, but now she was a snake woman. She wasn't before she was a woman snake. Now she's a snake woman, if that makes sense.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And like, yes, that's the priority right there. She's like, okay, now you're primarily the serpent. Enjoy killing all the children you would love.

Cristina: Harsh. Okay?

Jack: Hardcore.

Cristina: Hardcore.

Jack: But if she knew, then she opted into the possibility. That's more on her for thinking she could step into number one spot. And it's like, we all know where Zeus stands, and it's by Hera.

Cristina: Okay?

Jack: There's not a soul who's ever questioned if Zeus is going to turn on her. He's not going to. Why would he? Which means you opted into the situation to some degree. You weren't aware of what extent or what move. But you know, if you get busted, you. You f*****. And so you did, and I f*****. Okay, now let's break apart her appearance a little. Described as having the upper body of a beautiful woman and the lower body of a serpent. Right, let's dive into a little more detail. One thing that I found, which, again, as I say it, the image as I keep Moving forward, the image is going to build itself. She has the ability to shapeshift.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And that's an important little detail right.

Cristina: There because that's always involved.

Jack: That's a clever little tidbit. Oftentimes into either a pure woman or a pure serpent. Those seem to be her main go to. She can shapeshift into other things. But when she's in her pure woman form, after her interactions with Hera, she lures men in this woman form, and usually men with children, intentionally trying to get to the children and eat them.

Cristina: Oh, my gosh. Okay.

Jack: And when she's in a pure serpent form, she uses that to blend into nature where there would already be children.

Cristina: She's actually. Oh, my gosh. That's horrifying.

Jack: Yeah. She became. It's not just like, you're gonna be a thing. And it's like, yeah, I'm gonna go live my life as the same s***. I am just waiting. No. Hera f***** this lady.

Cristina: Now she hungers for children.

Jack: Now she hungers for children.

Cristina: Oh. Oh.

Jack: Weird, right?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Lamia, the lady who will eat children. But again, there's some patterns that are forming. I don't know if you're spotting them as I'm going through this. Shapeshifters, children.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Let's dive into some of these behaviors. They are going to paint even stronger image. She usually appears at night. Succubus behavior right off the bat. And the fact that you're luring men. Odd.

Cristina: Odd.

Jack: Luring men at night.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Sounds like a succubus. As far as I know.

Cristina: Yes. Yeah.

Jack: Which is already a shadow realm creature. So luring men at night and using the darkness to confuse and more easily abduct. Very, very succubus. The only difference is succubus are kind of mermaid, like always by water and s***. It's most likely a succubus is a mermaid and a mermaid is a succubus. Maybe different variations of the same thing. And by the end of this episode, if we remember, we could address that because it's gonna make sense why we would have to compare those things if we remember to.

Cristina: Okay, so you saying she didn't like magically turn her into a feral being. Now she is like the feral version of whatever creature she was. Like adrenochrome. Maybe she was given adrenochrome and killed and now she's after that or something like.

Jack: It's complicated. No, she was definitely a serpent woman.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: There are serpent women? Yes, according to the Greek myths.

Cristina: But now she's a feral serpent.

Jack: Yes. But I don't think she was the non feral version of something that's inherently feral.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: I think there are just, according to the Greek myths, serpent people.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Who are just normal people. And then there's weird other anomalies like the Gorgons and s*** like that. Or the Grogans. It's either Grogan or Gorgon. I don't f****** know. Medusa and her sisters and Keto, things like that. So those are weird artificial violent things. While Lamia didn't seem to be. It was just more of a literal person who happens to be of a specific race, maybe or something. It's not entirely clear. Yeah, there's actually very little information on this. This was a particularly difficult find, which is what made it more interesting because of the paths I had to take to get here. That informed quite a bit. But yeah, it looks like she was not some kind of weird thing. She was turned feral.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And there isn't a thing like that. As far as we know, that is specifically her kind of a creature that was a person. Or that she's the non feral version of something specific or race or something. It looks like she's just part of a race of people who happen to be. I don't know where the f*** the rest of her people are. There's no mention to that. Maybe you just made the weird serpent lady queen because she doesn't look like the rest of you. I don't really know the logic behind it.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But she was just a normal person other than her half serpent part. Now, when in her serpent form, she is known for consuming the children. When in her woman form, she is known for luring men. And when they don't have children, she kills the man.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Then there is little detail about what happens to the man that might inform what happens to the children. Because it's always described as eating. But when in her woman form, she is known for luring men. And when they don't have children, she kills the man and drinks her blood.

Cristina: Of course.

Jack: Of course. Very specific behavior. Now we gotta address how Hera accomplished this. Exactly.

Cristina: That's what I'm wondering. She turned her into.

Jack: Well, that's the end of the story. According to the the narrative of the Greek myth that is most promoted based on this.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: There's no more information right after that. That's where it ends. These are the events that took place. So what the h*** did Hera do?

Cristina: She turned her into. I don't know, a shadow realm creature.

Jack: Somehow How? The. She obviously drowned her in adrenochrome or some s***. Force fed her some s***. But how had she know? I mean, they're always f****** around with adrenochrome. But Hera knows.

Cristina: Why not?

Jack: Why would she?

Cristina: I don't know, but it depends. Like, what happens to these other women that she tortured?

Jack: Nothing like this.

Cristina: Nothing like this.

Jack: No, I would have. I would have talked about it. Obviously. Okay, so no, this is the case.

Cristina: This is the one case that happens.

Jack: At least this way. Yes, I looked at the other women. No, this is the one.

Cristina: Interesting.

Jack: So what the f*** happened? So she finds the lady and then what? You force fed her a dream? Where the f*** did you get a dr? How do you know adrenochrome was a thing? Even if you heard him talk about adrenochrome, how do you know specifically how to get it, how to make it? Hera knows a little something.

Cristina: Has to know something. Part of the team.

Jack: One of the gods, you would think, right? Yeah, but then who's on her side? Everybody's on Zeus side. Yeah, and Zeus sides with Hera. But Zeus isn't gonna tell his homies. Go, obey Hera. No, in fact, his homies tend to not like Hera a lot.

Cristina: Yeah. So she was snooping around somebody.

Jack: They would have caught her. Bro, we're talking about the most secure facilities in existence.

Cristina: There's no way she just stumbles upon this either.

Jack: Exactly the problem. There's also no way she entered these facilities. There's no way. Not in a billion trillion years. Considering specifically who she is and how she's known to behave, doubtful they would have let her anywhere near one of their labs. 100 guarantee you she didn't end it. I looked just to confirm the fact. Like, did she? There's no narrative that talks about her entering spaces relative to this. If there is, she was so f****** sneaky that nothing was registered ever. And we're talking about quite advanced facilities. She would have been busted.

Cristina: But how did she do this?

Jack: Then it has to be outside of the facility.

Cristina: How?

Jack: How did she accomplish turning Lamia into a feral person?

Cristina: How do you think?

Jack: Well, I don't know my conclusion, my thought is that perhaps she caught her and force fed it to her. But then the question is, how did she acquire? How would Hera stumble upon adrenochrome? What paths could she take? Who do we know that she could have been in contact with? There's so little about this interaction.

Cristina: And anyone she knows because we don't know anyone that talks about that's involved in adrenochrome.

Jack: We know many who are involved in adrenochrome. What do you mean?

Cristina: But, like, in the Greek gods. Any of them.

Jack: All of them have touched it one way or another. They literally discovered ambrosia. They have ichor in their position. And they have nectar, which a bunch of them consume specifically because they couldn't figure out how to do it without it, the way that the Elysians did with the stones and other methods. Okay, so they definitely had access to it. But why would she? And how would she.

Cristina: But why wouldn't she? Like she's one of them.

Jack: No, she's not.

Cristina: She's not.

Jack: She's the wife of Zeus. But she's not a scientist. She's just the wife of Zeus. And a particularly wild gun that they're not gonna let into their facilities, destroy all their s***.

Cristina: Mm. She knows enough. I don't know. It doesn't. It feels weird that she would just know how to do this.

Jack: We're missing the middle part, where somehow she did, in fact, acquire adrenochrome and then force fed it to this lady or something. What we know is that she knows Zeus.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And that this lady became some feral thing. And everything in the middle described is obviously adrenochrome related, but we also know she had no interaction with any other scientists in the facility, and that none of them like her.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And there's no mention. Not one. Which it would have. We found threads of the randomest s***. Not one mention of her hanging out or associating with any of these things.

Cristina: But she knows, Deuce. And he knows the information.

Jack: Yes. He's also not going to tell the lady, who is constantly having mood swings and having weird power moments.

Cristina: He doesn't have, like, the work at home.

Jack: And I assure you he doesn't, considering that it's the same work that the Elysians would like to confiscate. You're going to keep it in the most secure place, away from where they can easily come and take it from you. They're kind of op. You're going to take your work home, knowing how this s*** could just go down. Yeah, and they never did. Which means you didn't take the work home. Or you did take it home, and for whatever reason, they were just like, oh, let it go. And then this lady's op, that doesn't work out.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: They're too thorough. Deletions are mechanically thorough. It's computers at this point.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So he never took the work home. She Never entered the lab. His workers don't like her. And she still managed to turn the lady into obviously speaking an adrenochrome rampant creature. Who needs more adrenochrome.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Weird. And I don't know. So we know Hera has banished many women different ways. Never this way. And she is again hated by everybody. Nobody sides with her. They all side with Zeus. Although Zeus is a ruthless maniac himself. The loyalty or fear, one or the other. But then Hera behaves this way. It's definitely not the fear. Loyalty. They must just like him more. Yeah, but then again he is creating these. He kind of just successful at doing some s***. It's impressive. So successful. For many years we thought he was just some background noise that was being ignored by the Alicia. And then we found out he was one of the few to accomplish some of these really complicated things that the rest of them failed at. Like creating successful Naga. Even if it took a bunch of s***** experiments to get there.

Cristina: But she's one of them. No, she. She wasn't made at all.

Jack: No, she was just already a person who existed like that. Yeah.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: There must be a race. There's other serpent people who are not anything weird.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Greek mythology is packed with serpent people.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Some made like the Grogans. And some who were just born that way. Like Keto.

Cristina: But I don't know.

Jack: Yeah, neither do I. Interesting though, the fact that she had the ability to do this.

Cristina: Yes. Without any help. As far as anyone can tell, without.

Jack: Any help they have their kingdom. And she managed to get a hold of Lamia and somehow force feed Lamia or Tricker or something. And she then becomes this feral creature.

Cristina: That's ridiculous. I don't know. It feels like she needed help. But who would help her?

Jack: Okay, so then I will continue forward since trying to figure it out is a pointless endeavor. Now we've done appearance, we've done behavior. Now here's where we get into the weeds of the situation. We have to deep dive into the hard explain many different texts, primarily focusing on Homer and Apollonius. But there are six or seven different versions of different texts that are going to inform the story. There's a lot of cross referencing that piece this together. But again we're focusing on the texts from Homer and Apollonius. Although there are some details from other individuals here. Now we find the story plays out a little differently when we do look at their references. And the story begins with a lady called Khalees. So Khalees is the name of a woman with which Zeus was having an affair.

Cristina: Crazy.

Jack: One of the many. And is discovered by Hera. Now, very important to point out that in the Greek myth that is popular, Hera always knows that is explicitly mentioned. It's also explicitly mentioned in Apollonius's writing that she didn't know and she discovered Khalees.

Cristina: Okay?

Jack: Hence the anger in the first place.

Cristina: That makes changes.

Jack: Cheating on me, you piece of s***. Blah, blah, blah. What the f***? Imma smack that b**** up. You know, Instead of being angry at Zeus, you cheating piece of s***, now I'm gonna smack that b**** up. Khalees probably didn't even f****** know. Then again, he's Zeus. Khalees probably knew. Yeah, he probably knows. You know who Hera is. Come on, bro.

Cristina: Yes. Okay.

Jack: They're the rulers. You knew he was sneaking around. You had it coming.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Now details that matter without Zeus being aware. During Khaleesa's final visit, Hera uses Zeus guards and has Khalees royal guards killed. Then tosses Khalees alive into a snake pit to die.

Cristina: What?

Jack: Hmm?

Cristina: They just have a snake pit.

Jack: It's ancient Greece.

Cristina: I know. This is so crazy.

Jack: The snake pit consists of hundreds of snakes no larger than a human arm, according to Homer's texts. No, Hugh. Because my initial thought is you're gonna fuse with a f****** snake or something. I don't f****** know. Yeah, it's ancient Greek mythology because this girl Khalees is not a serpent woman. Let me point that out. Apollonius says beautiful woman, pointing out that she has walked a long time because her legs were visibly muscular.

Cristina: She's human, pure human.

Jack: Khalees was pure human, while Lamia was not. Lamia is bottom half serpent. But Apollonius doesn't agree with this narrative. Apollonia says, no, that was a woman. He was having an affair with a normal human woman probably.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And thus makes more sense that she was the queen of a civilization of normal human people.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And definitely there's no such thing as normal born f****** earthling.

Cristina: Are you talking about the same person?

Jack: Yes, this is the same story. Oh, this is them all talking about the same.

Cristina: One of them that we already talked. Yes.

Jack: The Greek myth and everything I'm telling you right now is their take on the same Greek myth.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: This is Homer, Apollonius and a few others talking about this very same story.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Which puts Khalees, the queen of Libya, as just a human.

Cristina: Okay. Which makes more sense. All right.

Jack: Just a human lady called Khalees. And she had very muscular legs because she. Not muscular, but she had toned legs. Because she walked a very long time. She loved walking. And she had royal guards who Hera had her royal guards disposed of on.

Cristina: Her visit and then murdered her.

Jack: Threw her in a snake pit.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: To die. Didn't say she murdered her. She threw her in a snake pit to die, which presumably she died there, but that doesn't mean she murdered her. Snakes would have.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: She definitely left her to die, though. And again, the snake pit consisted of small snakes for the most part. No snake is eating her whole. That would be impossible. To the length of an arm. You can't eat her. Okay, so interesting little details.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: The pit was explicitly designed to starve people to death if the snakes don't squeeze them to death. Lovely ancient torture device. Lovely ancient torture device. The important part comes now. We shift our view now entirely to Homer because Homer had some interesting tidbits that didn't make it to any other body, anybody else's story, and didn't even focus on the family. It focused on a random guard.

Jack: Let us unpack. With the upper body of Khalees and the lower body of a serpent. A guard sees Khalees flee into the forest during the night.

Cristina: What did he see?

Jack: The guard sees the upper body of Khalees and the lower body of a serpent flee into the woods.

Cristina: Okay, so she somehow transformed in the snake pit.

Jack: But how?

Cristina: How? Yes, how? That's very strange. That's his part of the story.

Jack: That's his contribution. He gave us this tidbit that nobody else mentioned, but allows us a little more information than just somehow. A civilization of humans put a serpent woman in charge of them fearlessly. No, it makes more sense to put a Greek God. They look like humans who are just real op and huge.

Cristina: Yes. But he's trying to explain how she looks.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: I don't know. That's weird.

Jack: Got muddy quick, right?

Cristina: Yeah. Unless that wasn't like a normal snake pit.

Jack: It was absolutely a normal snake pit.

Cristina: Well, how would she walk away like that?

Jack: I don't know. She gets tossed in the pit. And then a few days later, a guard doing his rounds sees her upper body somehow bottom half. Serpents now fleeing the pit into the woods, into the forest, casually.

Cristina: She somehow transformed in the snake pit.

Jack: She somehow transformed in the snake pit? Yes. At least it seems that way.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Weird.

Cristina: That is weird.

Jack: Very, very strange. So what do we believe happened here then?

Cristina: I don't. It wasn't a normal snake pit. Do you think it was a normal snake pit?

Jack: It was. I'll tell you what. The next line in his story. His correction of the story tells us, which will enlighten a little more. The next morning, after the guard reports what happened, they visit the pit and find Khaleesa's body still in the pit.

Cristina: So it was involved Shadow Realm.

Jack: It did not.

Cristina: It's a shadow Realm creature of her. But her dead body's there. So he did not see her dead body. No, but it was her. Is her adrenochrome version? I don't know.

Jack: Her body is still in there.

Cristina: Her body's still there.

Jack: She is f****** dead.

Cristina: Yes. But there's something out there.

Jack: Yes, for sure. There definitely is. A woman gets tossed into a snake pit where she fears for her death. The snake pit is filled with snakes who are going to attempt to eat the woman as she fears.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: For her life.

Cristina: Yes. This is adrenal chrome related. Okay.

Jack: Yeah. And a serpent woman gets seen leaving. And all Adrenochrome creatures seem to have the ability to shape shift.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So a serpent got adrenochrome and turned into saw. The only thing there that wasn't a serpent. Its intellect, as we know with adrenochrome, tends to skyrocket as long as you continue consuming it. And you have quite an amount here that's just persistently there. And so you kill her while she's screaming and panicking and she's being choked out in just fear in the most horrific of ways. And then this serpent or multiple. Who the h*** knows at this point? But at least one.

Cristina: At least one. Yeah.

Jack: Turns out into an adrenochrome creature. A hundred percent. Just fully converts.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Then turns like, tries to imitate what she was, what she looks like. But again, it's fresh. It doesn't know what the f*** it's doing. It's just newly. A creature has to discover its abilities, has to figure out how it works and all these things. So it managed half of a transformation that kind of sort of looked like her.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And then the pit is deep. Somehow still managed to get the f*** out of there. Like Adrenochrome creatures, you're thinking outside the box. You figured it out.

Cristina: But it's a feral Adrenochrome creature.

Jack: Why is it feral?

Cristina: Because it's eating children and stuff.

Jack: Eventually it will.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But actually, we haven't even gotten to any part in which this correction story even mentions anything like that.

Cristina: Oh, okay. I'm gonna guess that that's part of it.

Jack: That's. Yes, that's literally us using the parts we have to figure it out. Which is the logical conclusion, you got adrenochrome, but you didn't know you had to continue getting adrenochrome.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So you became feral, and you go out and once in a while you get adrenochrome without knowing you should keep getting adrenochromes. Now you're just a feral thing, casually killing s*** like a wet judge. Except the wet judge is on the other side. You've not died. You're a physical thing who just persistently exists.

Cristina: Yes. I forget that creatures here can do that, though. I always think it's like you have to die and then.

Jack: Yes, I know. Like I said, I'm present and remember the things.

Cristina: There's a lot of information to remember.

Jack: Oh, yeah. And I connect all of it, as would happen. But, yeah, that seems to be the case. This is all from Homer. This last part started, which makes sense days later. Yeah. So the creature with the upper body of Khalees and the lower body of a serpent is seen leaving into the forest in the night. While the guards making his rounds, he goes and he tells Hera and Zeus and the guards and everybody else like, this is what I saw. And then the next morning, they come and they see Khaleesa still there. Bro, like, you're out of your f****** mind.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: You're seeing s***. That's impossible. Okay, she's still there, but there was something that fled into the woods.

Cristina: Yeah. That looked like a half lady, half snake.

Jack: Half lady, half snake. Interesting, though.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Which then corrects the story of Lamia, because there's no such thing as a woman named Lamia. There's a creature named Lamia.

Cristina: And that's not his whole story, though. Homer's version.

Jack: That's the whole addition. The rest of it kind of falls in line with what was already discussed. That's his final input that didn't exist previously. Okay, so he finishes off fleshing out this narrative. Now, the name Khalees barely shows up anywhere. These two texts are the two of the only mentions with the addition of a couple of other texts. They don't mention her name. They mention the same story from different points and a little couple of details, but the name literally shows up and refers to the events of Lamia, but without mentioning Lamia, they mention specifically Khalees. And Khalees is not a serpent person, but in the Greek myth, the Lamia is a serpent person.

Cristina: Okay, so after her transformation, she. She's known as Lamia, but before her transformation, she's just a lady named.

Jack: And the narrative we get from the Greek is completely afterwards, but a merge of the events before.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: So it looks like he was with a serpent woman, but where the were the serpent women born? What the.

Cristina: Yeah. So it was just a woman. He was just with some lady and horrible things happened to her. Because that's what happens when you're with him.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Whoa.

Jack: Yes. Yes, yes.

Cristina: That's crazy. That's an actual story of a not.

Jack: Non accidental adrenochrome situation.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Somebody gets tossed into a pit, fears for their life, happens to be with the thing that's gonna kill them. The thing is, it's very similar to the warwolves.

Cristina: Yeah. Like, we have stories like that, but there is usually in the wild happening. It's not around.

Jack: Yeah. Rarely is it like, again, the werewolves is a weird one.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It's literally starved wolves because war scared all the other creatures away. And these guys are just dying, starved. And there's bodies everywhere. You eat what you can, bro, but fresh bodies from war.

Cristina: Oh, half dead, already scared out of their minds.

Jack: Some still alive and screaming because they got crap blown off and s***. Just cut and like, holy f***.

Cristina: Making werewolves.

Jack: Making werewolves. Oh, and this is very similar to that.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: You got a snake pit, which means really, really, really. Ultimately, if you look at the amount of serpent creatures that come out of India and the amount of serpent creatures that come out of Greece, the people who invented the f****** snake pits, suddenly the picture builds clearly. You're tossing people into snake pits casually as a prison sentence, as a death sentence.

Cristina: They probably have many stories of these human.

Jack: Maybe not. Maybe not many creatures stories, but. Oh, yeah, yeah. Not stories about pushing the people into thinking them turning, but definitely many, many, many, many serpent, human creatures.

Cristina: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Because I'm pretty sure they have the ones like the flying snake thing, that's just a witch who turns into a flying snake or whatever.

Jack: And it's like sketchy. No, there's something wrong going on here, buddy.

Cristina: Yeah. Yeah.

Jack: But you see how interesting.

Cristina: Yes, I see. It makes sense, though.

Jack: Yeah, that is definitely it. At least it seems to be the case on how the events unrolled were like that.

Cristina: It makes way more sense than the original.

Jack: Yeah, for sure. The original is just a myth.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: That's why we can't take the myths at face value because they're usually bullshit. It's a bunch of warped, twisted stories trying to attach morality or some s***. It's like people aren't moral. They just do s***.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And like the truth behind Homer and Apollonius takes on it are just People doing s***. And like her is kind of a loose cannon.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: There's no way she was going to be allowed into a lab. She's just tossing b****** into snake pits, bro. Come on.

Cristina: That is amazing.

Jack: I'm not going to let her into a lab and then she has a mood swing and thrashes hundreds years worth of research.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: She would never be allowed into any s*** like that. But she does toss b****** in the snake pits casually.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: That's just some s***. Who knows how many of these women turned into this s***. Now, again, the story of the Lamia plays out this way, but all these other narratives are also real exaggerated and sort of fluffed up, so they don't show any kind of reality to them. Probably a bunch of these b****** got tossed into snake pits.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Even if we don't have snake stories.

Cristina: Of them and their stories, they probably just. They died.

Jack: Yeah, they just f****** died. Yeah. It's like maybe she was too confident and like, not enough adrenochrome. So you didn't make a monster. Because I'm sure sometimes maybe you just fall, hit your head. No fear was felt.

Cristina: Yes. Yeah. Some people just die.

Jack: You just die. Yeah. And so not everybody became a creature. But this was a weird instance.

Cristina: She probably made a few creatures by accident.

Jack: I'm sure she made a couple. I'm sure. In India. I mean, we know based on just this new context.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: We know snake pits have resulted in snake like creatures. Multiple. Many.

Cristina: Yeah. And there's got to be people who saw it happen. Like this random guard.

Jack: Yes. Which means we could probably assuming it happens after the time of record keeping. Somebody penned the paper, Right?

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Now, what does it ultimately mean? We know that the serpent surrounding Khalees, while she was horrified, literally being squeezed to death, were exposed to the adrenochrome. One of the abilities of creatures and adrenochrome that most commonly is acquired is shape shifting. We see it talking everywhere, and the leftover body of Khalees assures us she was in fact, still physically there. So she's not who turned. She actually did die, which created the Adrenochrome. That was important. So one of the serpents morphed over the days. Interesting enough. It also gives us insight into the transformation, because nothing gets bigger or smaller other than Ophiomorphous, the artificial Naga created by Yaldabaoth in the Shadow Realm. That one can alter its scale, but we don't know of other Naga to alter their scale. So that's not a thing. And we don't know shape shifters to alter their scale. So he would have imitated her. It would have just been a tiny arm length snake with half of it being a tiny arm length Khalees.

Cristina: That's weird.

Jack: Yeah, but that's not what they saw come out. She was full size, maybe a little bigger than Khalees. That's the adrenochrome. It's morph increased its size dramatically, which tells us what happened. We don't have many takes on serpents being exposed to adrenochrome.

Cristina: No, but now definitely one of them.

Jack: Yes, definitely, yes.

Cristina: The whole victims of children and men.

Jack: On point. Yeah, on point. So it grew in size like 10 times, 20 times, 30 times. Whatever made it bigger than Khalees by default. And it did its best to imitate what it was seeing around it with one of its abilities. And it didn't fully maximize it, but it got enough to confuse the h*** out of a guard and then fled. It somehow climbed out of the pit, which is whole complicated thing, but again, weird abilities it has. And now it's got arms that it could imitate to have. And like odd, but. And it was days later it was in that pit hours and hours and hours exploring what it was now. Horrifying, you know, so it's. It probably turned into a million things in there trying to figure it out. Anomalous things, shapeless things that just don't make sense. Anybody who looked into that hole must have been mind looking in there.

Cristina: Except no one would because like why?

Jack: It's just dead people in snakes. Yeah, but that's what we got. The lamia is not a woman. The lamia is a serpent. Adrenochrome creature. The controlled version of a serpent. Adrenochrome creature. But that tells us what?

Cristina: There's more.

Jack: That there's more. And not just more. There are literally three other variations to this same creature. Not just more of the creature. This same one creature can have four different states based on what it is. It would have thalamia, which is it on adrenochrome, but that is not what is out there eating children casually. That is what left the pit. The lamia, the controlled thinking, logical, trying to figure itself out, highly intelligent version. That is not what's out there killing men and children.

Cristina: That's just a big snake.

Jack: Well, no, that would be the feral version.

Cristina: Yeah, but that's it.

Jack: Yeah, I guess it would, but it's not a snake. It stopped being a snake.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Now it's an adrenochrome Thing. Yes, because the snake would not have been on adrenochrome. And in deep diving, trying to figure out how this all fits together, I successfully did in fact find them. And they all happen to be based around the same area, and they all happen to be based around the same time. So presumably either a s*** ton of these m************ were made, or we can track the specific one that ate Khalees. There is a creature called a dracana, and it's all the identical characteristics of the lamia, with details like it being more monstrous and feral, less human and more driven by primal bloodlust. And texts suggest its behaviors are similar to the lamia. Only difference in the excessive amount of aggression that it shows. The lamia seems passive and it likes to hide. It's staying away from things. Someone don't catch me, don't see me, don't spot me. I gotta be in the COVID of night, in the dark. The dracana doesn't give a. That rolls up on towns, that rolls up on city. It doesn't give a. Broad daylight. It doesn't give a. It's eating.

Cristina: It's eating. Okay, so this is the feral.

Jack: This is a creature people run from towns, from, okay, destroyed villages because this rolled through.

Cristina: Oh, that's crazy.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which as you'd expect of an adrenochrome creature, oftentimes we don't get something crazy vicious because it's something stupid. But sometimes we get like, you know, if a groundhog. Like, whatever, dude. But if a wolf takes it, okay, we got a bit of a problem. We got nothing but stories of villages being terrorized by werewolves.

Cristina: Mm

Jack: Because when it's bad enough, it's bad enough.

Cristina: Horrible.

Jack: It's horrible. Werewolf. That's a f****** problem. Evacuate. Leave the f****** country. If you can get as far away, put water in between you, it's a f****** werewolf.

Cristina: Yeah, and I'm.

Jack: You know, most werewolves have started themselves out into the shadow realm. Ultimately as we got more technologically advanced and built structures that couldn't get through and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So in modern day, we see way less adrenochrome driven creatures because they will starve to death, minus the humans who can create farms easily.

Cristina: Yes, we don't have a problem.

Jack: We can solve our issues. But that's definitely the dracaena. If it. All the characteristics all perfectly, minus the fact that it's out of its f****** mind and fits the characteristics of what we're referring to as the Lamia. See, when we Talk about the Lamia. We're converging two stories of Khalees and a serpent, but the eating children and men were actually converging. The third part, the Jacana. So we're talking about three different instances of Khalees as a woman, of a serpent imitating Khalees and of the Jacana, all overlapping in one narrative that the Greek gave us. Because the lamia never hurt anybody. The lamia dipped into the woods and.

Cristina: That was the end of that.

Jack: That was the end of that.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And then we get the dracaena once that s*** goes feral and didn't get exposed enough, and now it's out of his f****** mind and has to just go eat whatever the h*** it comes across.

Cristina: And it wants children.

Jack: Yes. Now, the thing is, eventually that story fizzles out and we start seeing a very similar but different story about something called the echidna.

Cristina: Sounds familiar.

Jack: Is because Knuckles from Sonic is an echidna. But just the name of this thing is echidna. And in Greek mythology, the echidna is known as the mother of monsters, a half woman, half snake creature who gives birth to many of the famous monsters. In this context, the controlled shadow realm version of the Lamia would be the echidna. You make it into the shadow realm because you've died. But once in the shadow realm, you reset, you start again. Insane. Not insane. You start sane. So you're back to clarity. Except if you don't understand how it works, it's only a matter of time before you're right back to feral. Yeah, but you've left the body. You no longer need the blood requirements, but you still need what you were getting from the blood, which is the fear. But you no longer need the blood. So you got some time now that you've died and gone to the other side. And that brings us to the echidna, this creature that seems to be an ethereal shadow ghost. Like half woman, half snake, sort of faded silhouette thing that shows up. And it does not eat people. It sort of scares people to death. Oh, haunts them. It surrounds your house.

Cristina: It wants to fear.

Jack: Wants a fear.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: It shows up. It surrounds your house. It hits things. It'll be inside. It'll run up to you. It just scare you and disappear right into your face. It's a horrifying f****** monster that's just trying to scare the living f*** out of you.

Cristina: And it's also having babies.

Jack: According to the narrative, it's having babies. But when you look at the stories that are mentioned relative to this creature, there's not one mention of it. That's specifically the Greek narrative. That's the main Greek narrative. That's full of bullshit.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Again, we never take the main narrative at face value. It's always a lie.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: We gotta take the details and. Yeah, so most of the narrative fits. The having babies part does not. But the having babies part is only mentioned in the main narrative and does not get mentioned ever again.

Cristina: Okay, so he. It's a ghost haunting.

Jack: It's a ghost haunting. And it's mentioned follows the dates that directly stop mentioning the dracaena.

Cristina: So that wild creature self died. Feral being. Maybe someone finally got it killed or something.

Jack: Yes. And then we have the ghost. The ghost.

Cristina: That's cool.

Jack: Eventually that must go feral, though.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Because again, it's still uninformed. It's just a random thing. And then we get to something called the basilisk.

Cristina: Basilisk. And it's.

Jack: What is it described as? A deadly, mindless serpent spirit driven purely by instinct and fear.

Cristina: Of course. That sounds right. That sounds so right that all these match up in how they saw it.

Jack: Yep.

Cristina: They are all the stages of this creature's life.

Jack: They're all the stages of the creature's life. And they're all top, woman, bottom, serpent.

Cristina: Has to be the same.

Jack: And we found the origin.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: We can track this very instance to the very pit.

Cristina: This is crazy.

Jack: It's actually the first time we could do that.

Cristina: Yeah. Whoa.

Jack: Yeah. This is the clearest we've ever had.

Cristina: A situation that just lines up with every thing we thought about these creatures and how it works.

Jack: Yes. This answers many questions. Yes. As we were theorizing is the accurate turn of how it works. Every theory we had about how adrenochrome affects the body and what we are really getting from adrenochrome, which is ultimately the fear. And it's hard to even understand what exactly the concept of fear really is in a sort of tangible way.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Because we're definitely not grasping it. We don't understand. Fear is something different to these things in general.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Because why can these things tune into it? Must have already been something else. Why aren't they tuning into our happiness? You know, weren't they tuning into our sadness?

Cristina: Yeah. Because it's all the same. Well, to us, we think they're all the same.

Jack: Exactly. So it's. Fear is inherently something different.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And again, not just to the creatures. Because fear is what adrenochrome is. It's blood with adrenaline caused by fear.

Cristina: Yes. What is Happening. Okay.

Jack: We know Santa Claus, Mr. Clever, got planet Earth just having tiny little bits of faint fear. We know kids exaggerate smallest amount of fear. And he just needs kids to have a little bit of fear. He doesn't eat children. He doesn't do anything. He's just casual.

Cristina: But has accessed by it, though. So, like all of them.

Jack: But he's not some sort of creature. He's still, it seems, a necromancer. And necromancers can still wield things for power instead of having. Which he also has a stone on his staff.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So he has a stone and he's overpowered. That explains a lot. He has crazy powers. Entirely due to the fact that he has stones and still manipulating fear globally.

Cristina: Yes. I don't know. But we know he's not. He's not a human. He was a human once upon a time. Yes, but he is.

Jack: I mean, he might still be a human. We don't know what really to describe necromancers as.

Cristina: No.

Jack: Like, I think.

Cristina: But it does seem like they all went through death.

Jack: Yes, you're totally right. You're totally right. It seems in a couple of. In. You're totally right. Yes. In a couple of instances, there have been mentions that it appears to be that they must intentionally go through a process that they will die in. And that's where the original association with necromancers and death comes from. And if he is using necromancer abilities and is in any manner, shape or form, even scratching the powers of a necromancer, which we don't know. He's one of the only examples we have with, like, visible things that we can point at and be like, oh, this must be working in my favor. Like, yeah, definitely. It's hard to even grasp. But he had to die.

Cristina: I think.

Jack: So we know at least. Homer. Not Homer. Hermes. Jesus. Jesus. The best example, because, again, he couldn't go in there and do it. Dying was literally part of it.

Cristina: Yeah, it's part of the plan. That's crazy.

Jack: He's built in his own death. He managed to build the gates knowing he would need them to get back. He got back somewhere else entirely, so they couldn't stop him.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: But he needed to die to do it.

Cristina: I'm pretty sure Patrick had a die too.

Jack: Maybe. I mean, the fact that he's so exaggeratedly overpowered and can so easily deal with even fairies.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Necromancers can't be touched.

Cristina: No.

Jack: Then the question that we have is, is Mab's problem? The Elysians or is Mab's problem that the Elysians are connected with Hermes? Is Hermes the issue? Is Jesus the issue? We know the Alicians at least had a heart attack after they lost control of that situation.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Get the out of here. We're all she was also fearing could totally be. Is Jesus gonna easily show up in El Fame and smack everybody around effortlessly? Sounds like Hermes can.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And like I'd be shook too, if I made your universe and you can come over here and just f*** me.

Cristina: Mm. That's crazy.

Jack: But here we have the proof that it kind of works. As we suspected it would work.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: As we have talked that it would work for years. And it played out.

Cristina: Made from adrenochrome transforming.

Jack: And we can. There's. I didn't put the dates here, but the dates kind of follow one another in the right order.

Cristina: That's so crazy because it's exactly what we thought.

Jack: It's exactly what we thought in narrative form. Although the original narrative muddies it up. And unclear is everything we're looking at. Thank you to all the other record keepers. Primarily Homer and Apollonius, who had meticulous notes.

Cristina: That's nice.

Jack: And as we know, Apollonius is really just Apollo. And Apollo directly knew Hermes because they were both present with Aristotle.

Cristina: Ridiculous.

Jack: At the school. Lycium. Yep. Everything connects.

Cristina: Everything connects. Yeah.

Jack: And somehow the problem is how the h*** did Jesus come in contact with anybody? Did Jesus didn't go to Elysium. How did Jesus. Jesus is so complicated.

Cristina: I don't know. He has some. I don't know.

Jack: He has some connection somewhere. Somewhere he must. Or he figured it out. But how? We're talking. The Elysians were definitely trying to figure this s*** out. And you alone with no help from anybody. Get the f*** out of here, bro.

Cristina: He had to have help. If he didn't like how.

Jack: Oh, s***. I just had a theory right now. It just came to me. Well. Well, I guess it kinda does make sense that he would just know. Let's look at the evidence. What is the biggest problem with Jesus that caused everybody to go.

Cristina: Everyone knew about him.

Jack: Everybody knew about him. What does that tell us? He's sending a mental wave of some sort.

Cristina: Okay. Yeah. It's coming from him.

Jack: It's coming from him outward. He was throwing a beacon back in time into the future. And in the present. This is where I am. Everybody was having visions, dreams, and everything about where he is.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Now what do we know? Following logical standing. If we think about Santa, what's one of the most Exaggerated things about Santa being everywhere. He just knows what you're doing casually.

Cristina: That's pretty powerful stuff.

Jack: Is that mental blast or whatever the f*** when Jesus was born.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So if Santa, some underpowered thing compared.

Cristina: To Jesus can do it, still know everything.

Jack: He could literally just know everything. Yes, as long as you know it. And as long as you don't have some sort of magneto brain cover protecting you from him looking into your mind or whatever. And even if maybe he's not. Not even looking at your mind, maybe he can just witness moments in space and time.

Cristina: Jesus is. I guess, I mean, that's why he's a God. He is God. He's the son of God. He is God though. That's a God power.

Jack: Yeah. You couldn't hide from him if you wanted to. He just knows. Okay. We hid it over there. Yeah. I know where they hit it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Oh, he'll never find out about these things. Oh yeah. I can just see their library and I can just see them doing the research.

Cristina: Yeah. Like, how could they really hide?

Jack: How could you really hide? But in return, the flaw with that logic is why are you looking for them if you know where they are?

Cristina: Yes. So they must have figured out a way to block him. To block him? Yes. Yes. Yes.

Jack: Which means. Yes. Going to Atlantis was very intentional. Going to Atlantis also meant that's where they had built the protection field that prevents him from seeing them. He has no idea where Atlantis is.

Cristina: No.

Jack: They know how to become invisible.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Not just literally cloaking, but they know.

Cristina: How to block their minds.

Jack: Yeah, they know how to block s***. But then that comes up to the. Let's go back to the point again. If Jesus is so freaking overpowered and you can so easily just hide from him, then his map scared of you and not Jesus. At this point, the argument really stands on one thing. One of these guys is who worried this lady. It's either the Elysians and Jehovah.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Or it was Jesus, which is a product of the Elysians and Jehovah. Anyways. But you know, we're still counting them as two separate entities, ultimately one two different units. And one of these units is triggering this lady into mobilizing elves into Stop. Could be basically being firewalls and trying to stop anybody else from getting to this level of power and trying to literally suppress the Elysians who went into hiding. And just who is she scared of? Is it Jesus or is the Alicians? They're not on the same side. One of those can easily side with her. To stop the other.

Cristina: I don't know. That's tricky. I don't know. It feels like it has to be Jesus because that's probably when she realized. No, like it is the Elysians, but it's because of Jesus that it's the Elysian.

Jack: Oh, like they could do some this. They could do this s*** again.

Cristina: Yes. And they probably would. They probably would. I don't know if they just learned their lessons. I feel like they're the type of scientists that are like, okay, plan one didn't work, let's go to plan two. Well, which is how we got other versions of Jesus that were way weaker after him. Like obviously they don't.

Jack: No, those were different people that was. We can follow him literally walking. Or do you mean like Muhammad and things like that? Because the people who were happening at the same time, we're not literally the same time. Kind of like this. We can track their dates back to back and we can follow every step Jesus took all the way to Japan. That was the same one, dude. That wasn't different people.

Cristina: No, I'm talking about like what's his name? Like the golem thing.

Jack: Oh, yes, yes. But that doesn't seem to have been Jehovah. That seems to have been information that came from the shadow realm. Kind of like the Viking forest. It was just something from the shadow and suspectedly that was Yaldabaoth just doing his own thing. Doing his own thing. And we know he did that with Eloi. He, you know, kind of influenced him. Like, hey, you could do this.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Kind of do it that way.

Cristina: Okay, okay.

Jack: Yeah. But Jesus being this level of overpowered and Jehovah's ability to easily make more Jesus becomes kind of a problem, especially because like, you don't know if they're gonna become good or bad.

Cristina: No.

Jack: And like this Jesus, at least not a threat it seems, because he directly preaches peace, love and happiness. And his whole path, every single stop he made for rest. The narrative is the same. He took care of us. He told us to love one another and treat each other really well. And he just kept going on his way.

Cristina: We know the ultimate plan is some weird war against the sea people.

Jack: Well, this is the most important part of this entire episode right here because we are way over time and we have to address this. Anyways, the narrative of Jesus, without diving into the separate cross reference parts, just the book itself, the Holy Bible, which is a rewrite of true events into this warped version by the Templar.

Cristina: Okay, right, yeah.

Jack: It tells us a very important Thing about Jesus. But we also have to remember who's telling us the story. It tells us what's gonna happen with Jesus. What's gonna happen with Jesus?

Cristina: That he's gonna come back.

Jack: Yes. And who's telling us the story?

Cristina: Let's see, people.

Jack: Which tells us what? There's an inherent plan to make another one. There's an inherent plan to make another one. Another Jesus. There's an inherent plan in the book written, telling us there's another Jesus coming. We don't know what Jesus looks like specifically. They can make him look like whatever the f*** they want. Anybody they want. We just know that a person who fits the abilities and characteristics as mentioned in the book about Jesus is gonna return. That doesn't mean literally return. That's just what they want us to believe. Because they are the people who make this.

Cristina: Exactly. Okay, so they are planning.

Jack: Yes. Within the book. We literally have. We literally have their plan.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: That's telling us eventually we're gonna create another one. But we can't tell them it's another one.

Cristina: No. Because we don't want them to worry.

Jack: Yeah, well, no. We wouldn't even know. We think it's all one person anyways. We didn't know that he was even made.

Cristina: That's true. Okay.

Jack: Yeah. But the book directly. With all the information we have, the book directly tells us another one's happening. Another one's gonna happen. There was the plan. Always. The plan is we're gonna make a perfect version.

Cristina: That is horrifying. I don't know. I mean, like, if it works. But what does it mean? That it worked too.

Jack: Doesn't matter. The point ultimately comes down to the fact that that's whose map Mab is afraid of, like you said.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Maybe she's scared that they're gonna make another one.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And that one will be even harder to control.

Cristina: Interesting.

Jack: Or not a good guy, especially in today's world. You want an overpowered, beyond godlike thing to have been raised by a current day human woman? We're f*****.

Cristina: I don't know their plan. Well, we don't understand their plan, but obviously they told us their plan. Like we know it's happening. Interesting.

Jack: More is to come.

Cristina: More is to come inevitably.

Jack: According to the Holy Bible.

Cristina: That's crazy. Yes. Okay.

Jack: The Knights Templar, controlled by the Elysian, specifically put in a book the corrected narrative that Jesus is coming back. We know Jesus is essentially a lab experiment. What does it mean that he's coming back if they can't control him? Means they're making another one.

Cristina: They're making another one.

Jack: So you were right about that.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Anyways, that's what we got.

Cristina: Whoa.

Jack: Yeah. So if you guys have any comments, questions, concerns, and if you guys want to yell at me for always being so ruthless to Christina, feel free. You guys can come and yell at me, too. You know. You guys know how it goes. You can do that and hate on us on our socials, at Just Combo pod on Twitter, which is X on Facebook, on Instagram, wherever the h***, just search it.

Cristina: Just combo pod. Remember to subscribe, rate, and review the show.

Jack: Yes. And word of mouth is one of the most important, overpowered things that exists. So tell people about the program and the fact that we're finding all these weird things.

Cristina: This has been the Rambling Podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Bye.

Jack: Sam.

May 11, 2024

Rambling 273: Looking for Questions

May 11, 2024/ GreyThoughts.Info

With so many doors left to open, what is left to discover? The duo continue their unhinged speculation on the existing information with hopes of opening even more doors to continue investigation through. And like last time, the doors want to be opened!!

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed:

Elysians
Jesus Christ
Yaldabaoth
Necromancers
Elves
Hermes
Merlin
Queen Mab

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

+Transcript

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast, the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And you and I, for the last however many episodes, I've been going down an infinite rabbit hole that doesn't seem to have an ending. And last week, you and I decided to look at it differently. And instead of looking for new information, we would just, without even looking at the notes, talk about what we know and extrapolate new angles to approach. Great idea.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It led to a lot of places. In fact, I found a couple of interesting things that are great, but I would like to, instead of going over that stuff, do this process again and continue to pick at whatever we haven't addressed so that there's more direction to go. And if we hit a wall, I have in front of me the beginning of what we've already found.

Cristina: Really?

Jack: Yeah. It's a specific story which will spiral into infinity, into. We have no more time. So that's perfectly fine. So I would like to just dive into what we do know, what we didn't talk about, whatever we didn't address last time.

Cristina: Where did we stop?

Jack: Well, we talked a little bit of everything. I remember we addressed Hermes. We talked about the Elysians. We were trying to figure out, like, what's the ultimate goal. They're trying to go down, not up, possibly. That seemed to be kind of like the culmination of everything was kind of focusing on that idea. Yeah, but there's a lot of parts here that we don't understand who they are or what their purpose is within the bigger scheme of things.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: We think of, like, MAB programmer, but purely programmer. Why do we know about you at all? Why do we, you know, the interaction relative to mabs somehow. Why, you know, that's a good question. I don't know things like that. There's this curious kind of, like, easy to miss because it's something they wouldn't even have thought about bringing up. That is filler information for them because they contextually know it. But we don't have context. We only have the writing that. That is our 100% context. So what? The context that existed for them that they thought was irrelevant because it was just casual knowledge to us, needs to be written, and they didn't. So we have to extrapolate it. Right. And then that would guide us to the sentences that kind of indirectly together. Tell us the narrative on map or anything. On anything.

Cristina: Because I know. What do we know about map? I don't know.

Jack: We don't know crap about map. But the problem is we also don't have angles to go find things on mab. Yeah, if we had angles, which presumably is what we would be achieving here. If we had angles, if we found some thought we could follow, then that would take us there.

Cristina: I have no idea how to think of something that connects to her besides like she made everything. That's all we know. Yeah, there's no characters or anything. Not characters, but like people related to her that exists here.

Jack: The characters that exist here that she. Elves that gets sent to. But I don't even know how that works.

Cristina: No.

Jack: You know, I have no idea how elves fit into the bigger scheme of things other than they stop civilizations from getting too powerful.

Cristina: Is that even true? Is that even true? Like who have they tried that with?

Jack: We would need examples. Right, because that's what they say. But then what is the example?

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: So you can't just tell us this is their purpose and then not have a single example.

Cristina: So unless they're the reasons why. When. What was it Lucifer was trying to give other countries?

Jack: Oh, you see, this is what we need to speculate on. So your theory would be that if somehow we could find an event that fit their work, perhaps these other civilized. But no, they would be whack or lower grade civilizations.

Cristina: The ones that fail that we know that they are.

Jack: That's what I mean. They would be keeping in check the ones who aren't failing.

Cristina: But I don't know if they're keeping track of anything. As far as I can tell, they're not doing anything.

Jack: Unless. Unless you're thinking of this the wrong way. All of the structures along the Weird fact. Weird fact. I don't know how the h*** we didn't come across this before I read this. I remember reading this. This was in the notes and we briefly actually talked about this, but we didn't think about it. I guess all of the structures on the old equator although built at random different times. None of the civilizations that built them were around the old equator. They traveled to build the thing.

Cristina: I don't understand what.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. All of the old. The objects on the old equator aren't from like the people who made it, brought the things there from wherever. Each group of people, every instance, almost every instance, in a few rare instances, they actually already lived within the proximity and then they just built it within them. But the Others migrated the things and built the thing, meaning the thing we find. Their structure we find on the old equator is way newer than their civilization as a whole. So we see this building that looks like. Well, can't, because this was just kind of recently made as opposed to, like, these civilizations. It doesn't look advanced. That's an ancient crappy building. It doesn't have the sophistication of the ones we know went further. Maybe they have always been being kept in check. And when we hear about 300 years ago from Beast. From the time of Jesus, 300 years back, weirdly enough, they kind of show up around the time of Alexander the Great and the. Oh, my God.

Cristina: I don't see anything.

Jack: No, look, okay. Dates matter here.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Weird things that have just happened in my mind. We know that the elves show up around 300 BC. That's preemptively right before Jesus. Right. They knew something was kind of up.

Cristina: Okay, but we were.

Jack: When we shared that information, we were too focused on Jesus and we lacked a lot of information because of the next sentence. 300 years ago was Alexander the Great time. 300 years ago from the time of Jesus. Specifically, we're always looking back. I'm saying 300 years back from Jesus. 300 years BC if I'm Jesus. Okay, so 300 years back from me, Jesus, Hermes was walking around the school where Aristotle. Okay, that literally coincides with. With the mention we're aware of of the elves.

Cristina: How does that relate?

Jack: Because Hermes, the op necromancer, who can do a bunch of crap, presumably is now at this time teaching Alexander, even if he's a flunky. And then we get elves. Elves were there because Hermes was teaching somebody who potentially could have.

Cristina: Elves popped up because of Hermes.

Jack: Well, they show up at the same time. We're theorizing. I don't know. This is all speculation, but, like, because.

Cristina: They sort of knew someone.

Jack: Yeah. Something was about to happen. They saw something because Hermes. The mention of Hermes we get is 300 years bc and then the mention of elves we get is 300 years bc coincidence. Could totally be. Again, we're just throwing information in random directions now. We all.

Cristina: We already know when exactly they got here and what exactly they're looking at.

Jack: Yeah, we don't know exactly. Exactly. I think it's possible that it doesn't make sense that she would just create this troop suddenly.

Cristina: Mm. There had to be a reason for it.

Jack: Yeah. Unless they've always existed. And this is just the first mention we have proof of. Do you get my Point like maybe there's further back mentions of fairies being deployed. The problem is getting anything from Elfame is hard. We usually it's written by somebody from the shadow realm who is in earthrealm. The odds of it.

Cristina: That's tricky. Mm.

Jack: Mm. How many Hermes do we have? One problem. There's few people who have the no to tell me something from the other side.

Cristina: So you think she was interested in Hermes or people like Hermes?

Jack: I don't think she was interested. I think that's the fear.

Cristina: That's the fear of the fairies.

Jack: Especially if that is in fact just another layer. If Mab, as the quote, programmer, unquote, is herself within another layer of the quote, program, unquote, then her biggest issue would be any of us who could figure that s*** out.

Cristina: It's the AI becoming sentient, taking over 100%.

Jack: And in the case that she is also a layer instead of base reality, us getting out is horrifying because that just means we're really just there.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: We don't. I don't need to enter physical space. You're just another part of the program. I could get to you physically. And if I know that, and I know how to migrate from my side to yours potentially, I know how to control the physical structure of your side because I had to to get there. Oh, that's a problem. That's literally what a necromancer does.

Cristina: Yes, that's exactly.

Jack: Oh, s***.

Cristina: I can see them being a problem.

Jack: Yeah, I can see that being a true issue. Yes. Yep. So that's definitely a thing. It looks like a necromancer could definitely be an issue. Specially special. Especially. Especially. Especially in the case of Map just being another layer. Yes, because then you'd be f*****.

Cristina: I don't know. I mean, I guess it makes sense because we were worried about the same thing.

Jack: The argument would be that even if she's within a layer, everything within her layer was made of the technology she uses. And if the technology she uses learns how to manip. How to escape, then it can control all the other technologies because presumably they're used within the same sophistication.

Cristina: But.

Jack: Or like, you know, so it could just. It would be. It would be apocalyptic, realistically speaking. So while we were thinking G. I mean, Jesus himself could be that too.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Because of the human factor that seems necessary to accomplish necromance.

Cristina: I still don't understand why the. Because shadow people cannot do that. But they are closer or they're not. There's.

Jack: I don't understand. I don't. I Don't get it either. There's something weird there, something interesting about Elfame that is different. And I would. And I've tried different, like, analogies in my head. If you think of, like, how difficult it would be to try to send your friend a message from, like, WhatsApp to Facebook, even if they're literally within the same ecosystem, minus the fact that they added that feature recently.

Cristina: How do you do that?

Jack: Yeah, how do you. It's the same thing.

Cristina: How about Facebook and Twitter?

Jack: Facebook and Twitter, a better example. Yeah, same idea. They're both on the Internet.

Cristina: But how do you get a message?

Jack: How do you get a message across from one side to another? It's probably a realistic way to do it, but it's probably really tricky and has a ridiculous number of steps you got to do. But if you did it enough, you would eventually learn shortcuts from what is already there and understand why this works with that and be able to, oh, middleman that s*** out of the way.

Cristina: Just get from any website, from a.

Jack: Website to send a message to any website from any other website. Weird, right? Seems wrong, but it should be possible. You should be able to send an inbox from Facebook to Twitter. And I bet somebody can. I bet somebody out of boredom figured out the nuance of getting a Facebook message on Facebook to register on Twitter just for s**** and giggles and to see if they can, because it's probably not that hard.

Cristina: It sounds really complicated.

Jack: Well, it could be really annoying. It could be like you have to install something on or not even install something. So you send a message with something encrypted in the message that's being read off of the computer or something, and then you have the receiving encryption or. I don't even know, because what, you'd send the message through Facebook. The message would be registered through the Facebook algorithm. Then you'd have to hack the idea. Have to hack Facebook in order to then get the message. You'd have to hack both and just create a link, essentially. Man, I wonder if somebody could figure this out. Is there any listener we have that can figure out how to legitimately send a inbox from Facebook and make it land on Twitter and it be a logical set of steps. That would be amazing. I'm sure it's possible, although incredibly complicated, because ultimately what a website is, is a bunch of walls around the Internet.

Cristina: Yes. You think that's how this is though, too?

Jack: I think that's exactly how this is. I think it's just a bunch of walls around the Internet now there's more Internet outside of the walls, but this is just a bunch of walls and there are many series of walls. It's flat earth. There's the idea of flat earth. Oh, we're in. Encapsulated in this ice wall. But there's more Earth outside the ice wall.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: That's the ultimate reality. Or it seems to be.

Cristina: It seems to be.

Jack: Seems to be the case. Which weirdly enough, I guess that kind of fits with what Flat Earth is saying. But weirdly enough, that kind of fits with what science says. When you consider the fact that we're like our observable universe. Well, there might be more outside of that. That's just the barrier that we have. And it's not like a real barrier that we can't cross, but as opposed to the walls around us at the moment, based on the rules that make what we're at.

Cristina: I don't know. Like she. But are they trying to do that where they're at? I guess as fairy people. Can they go up to whatever the reality is?

Jack: I mean, the argument would be that as above, so below is accurate as f***. Everybody's trying the same s***. Maybe.

Cristina: But why is it so complicated for the shadow people to do it but not for a human to do it?

Jack: I don't know that part. I have no idea. That's weird, right? Unless there's something specific about the shadow realm. Maybe that is itself an old program, as opposed to earthrealm, which is just a newer, more sophisticated program, so it's easier. And then the case of Yaldabaoth is he's trying to kind of figure out how to do it. The sophisticated program is doing. So it's a case of this dark ancient thing that wants to escape into the new world.

Cristina: Probably has escaped and I don't know. I wish we knew something. But is he still there? I don't think so.

Jack: I don't know.

Cristina: Unless that's not the goal. That's. The goal isn't to go out.

Jack: Unless the goal isn't to go out. I don't know.

Cristina: I don't know. Because with. When it comes to Hermes, it doesn't seem like that's the only goal. That may be a goal. It's not the goal.

Jack: What would you say are. What would you say seems like another.

Cristina: Goal besides making your own place?

Jack: Yeah. Do you think his. Yeah, I guess it does kind of make sense. The goal would be to like.

Cristina: I think it would be everything.

Jack: But no. Yeah, it's because I think you're right. It's like sure, go up. Whatever dude. But like maybe it is harder to go down. Look at it like this. As far as space is, it's even easier to look in that direction than it is to look down. Yes, you see the problem? It immediately becomes so complicated when we get small. Far, fine. Big fine, it has a cutoff point. But fine, it's just reaching it. Distance is the issue. But far. And big, not a problem. But small, regardless of how close you can get, so small you make it impossible to understand. And in order to build a universe, it's not about going out into an existing s***** thing. It's about understanding how the f*** small works. Which weirdly enough, I would argue we see an expert at it. Even if he's not a boss at a bunch of other s***. He is. He has a clever plan in motion and he seems to understand particle science really hard. Who are you talking about, Nicholas?

Cristina: Because he can, Santa.

Jack: He can turn himself into some sort of non physical form form actively in physical space. That is understanding and actively violating what we consider to be the rules. But according to the Hermetica and the seven hermetic principles is absolutely fair within it. And weirdly enough, the quantum theory suggests that that kind of works too. We should be able to build technology that allows us to become or to teleport. That is not wrong. It's not against science. It does fit within.

Cristina: We can do it.

Jack: Yeah. Science says that functions and that that works.

Cristina: Do you think he can do it?

Jack: I think he gets it really well. I think he understands it really well.

Cristina: Mm

Jack: He could turn into a cloud.

Cristina: He could turn into a cloud. I don't remember.

Jack: But he could like go down the chimney. Which presumably means he's not really going down the chimney.

Cristina: But we have no hint to what his actual goals are.

Jack: He doesn't seem like he has a goal. It looks like that guy's just like living the life chillin.

Cristina: But is there something else again?

Jack: Yeah, exactly.

Cristina: Like there has to be. Like there has to be. Who just that's filling fulfilling for them for the whole. Their whole life is just giving children presents.

Jack: That Naga that went and settled in Australia just for s**** and giggles and to call itself a God.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like it happens once in a while.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: They just go and do nothing. Like he wins. Everybody knows who the f*** he is, I guess.

Cristina: But why isn't he like the others that are all so science y?

Jack: Because there has to be a little of everything and we're just focusing on those.

Jack: There's probably a Crap ton of stories unrelated to. Actually, interesting enough, there's probably a crap ton of stories unrelated to any of this. Now that we have the eyes to go find just weird side narratives that don't matter within the actual realm of what we're talking about.

Cristina: Look for what type of side stories?

Jack: Just random unrelated characters that have no consequence in the bigger overall picture. That still there's things about that now we know how to. Now we know how to undo translation errors. We know how to look backwards in time and find original text and then make them the original intended. Not just word, but the meaning behind the word based on what the person who wrote its original language is. Think about that. If your native language is Greek, then regardless of what language you wrote it in, imma find out what you think that word means in Greek, and then that informs me on what you are most likely to think you mean when you turn it into Latin. Even if you turn it into Latin and it was the first time you wrote it in Latin, knowing what language you spoke first tells me a lot about how you'd think of the word you're putting there for the context.

Cristina: Complicated.

Jack: Exactly. But now we have all these tools and we can do that. And because of that, I can find random s*** that doesn't have any consequence. But now we can enter the. You know, the filler episodes of Supernatural that sometimes turn out to be the best ones when it's like, oh, man, they're just hunting vampires today. And that's cool. And it's like, I missed these. It was like, all apocalyptic for, like, three seasons straight. And now we're just chasing a werewolf or a ghost. Cool, man. Like the good old days.

Cristina: Some side character does the actual important thing of the. Yeah, my story's still happening. It's just. They're not involved in it.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, like, Bobby calls him up and is. I got the lead.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: At the end of the episode. Or it was Bobby. Or Castiel shows up and like, yo, I got the information.

Cristina: Yeah, yeah.

Jack: You guys. You guys did the thing you were doing. Cool. Okay. This is the next step. And it's like, yeah, okay. We could jump into that part of our lives now where we, like, go hunt these side stories of dumb s***.

Cristina: Okay. Until someone comes with the envelope that's like, here's the important lead.

Jack: Yeah, yeah. Because think about it. We already have enough tools to really. We can even revisit some things with really informed eyes and look at something like werewolves. We could actually find the mentions of actual werewolves. Wet chudges and Wendigo's across the board that exists. And what's the other one? Lycan, that all exist and aren't even under any of those names. Because we would know exactly what their behavior would be like, what the conditions for them to be around would be. We could track anything down at this point. We're experts in this weird esoteric.

Cristina: Okay, but what would be revisiting? We'd be revisiting these things to learn more information.

Jack: We can. It could definitely inform us in a lot. Especially considering the path of a lot of these stories that we originally went on, these ventures with came from, like, everyday narratives and news articles that were reporting on these events and the characteristics of them. Think of the Countess that literally was just. She was literally just getting adrenochrome, just milking adrenochrome from a bunch of young girls. She would hire 15 year olds to be her maids and then kill them and bathe in her blood and drink it and cover herself in it. And just like, she f****** knew. But now we gotta ask, where'd the Countess get her information? Is it like, we know elites, but why do elites come across it? What information source are they connected to?

Cristina: How could we find that, though?

Jack: How could we find that? You know, those are the paths we should be finding.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: There are roads for days. We are armed like no one.

Cristina: Mm. I think we could do that.

Jack: Mm. For days. For days. There's anywhere we could go? We can make this current as f***. We have too many tools. We can't be tricked anymore.

Cristina: I would love to do vampires, though.

Jack: Be interesting to find some vampires.

Cristina: Yes. Yes. No, werewolves are actually better. Never mind. Their stories are so wild. Like, we have to make them make sense. It's just too wild.

Jack: Yeah. And here's really weird fact, right? Because the origination of a man becoming a werewolf, like, a werewolf is not a werewolf, man. Not the way that we put it in movies and s***.

Cristina: No.

Jack: Like, it's not a dude. A dude doesn't become a wolf. That's not how it works.

Cristina: Well, sometimes with wolf clothing.

Jack: Yes. But that's exactly my point, because that leads into. We had a whole episode about this where we were talking about the mythology of werewolves and the fact that it originally was just people, ignorant people watching tribal behavior and not understanding what was happening. And it's like they're covered in the fur because it gets f****** cold, bro. And, like, they probably killed the wolf to stay alive. And, like, they're not gonna waste it.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So they have that and Then you attack one of theirs. And then one of these guys comes and attacks you. Chases you through the woods. He's making crazy noises behind you. Because they're used to making crazy noises to scare people these times. You make it through the woods, you swear to God you were being chased by a half man, half wolf. But he was just wearing a wolf. And that's not normal to you.

Cristina: You should do that.

Jack: We can revisit so many things and with all hopes I can inform more. Just continue to deep dive into this weird world. I love those episodes. Really pack unpacking things. But I'm sure there's way more things too. I'm curious to see what creatures we can find that are connected to mentions of Elfame.

Cristina: That would be interesting.

Jack: Yeah. They aren't normally along the lines of traditional fairies, but still within the definitions we found and the other ways we found that people refer to Alfame because.

Cristina: We'Ve done some research on fairies and types of fairies.

Jack: But it's also like the common seemed.

Cristina: Related, but maybe they are related. I just don't know.

Jack: Yeah, they seem like random one off things, right?

Cristina: Yeah. And zombies.

Jack: Zombies.

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: Yeah. But those are states of humans. Because a zombie is just a human who stopped taking adrenochrome.

Cristina: I guess there's nothing really there.

Jack: Yeah. And then we used to think people would become jinn on the other side. But then we found out jinn are just jinn on the other side. Jinnah's have always. They're just people.

Cristina: They're those people.

Jack: Yes. What the f***? I actually don't know what the h*** happened to a human on the other side. I guess that's a ghost actually.

Cristina: Ghost? I don't know.

Jack: Yeah, that's actually the ghost, right. A spirit. As far as we know. It's like this person that goes to the other side and is a twisted. Well there's two versions of it. I guess what we call a demon.

Cristina: But with necromancers they can time travel.

Jack: That's weird, right? Because it doesn't seem to. I don't see a specific mention of time travel. As opposed to the ability to completely halt or slow down time until it seems like a halt.

Cristina: Well like what example would that like I need an example of that. That doesn't sound like anything.

Jack: St. Nicholas and his way of moving through physically the entire planet is described as an activity that he is actively moving from place to place. But successfully accomplishing it and visiting millions of houses.

Cristina: That's not travel. Time traveling though I would I mean.

Jack: We'Re always time traveling.

Cristina: He's.

Jack: The argument here is he's slowing time down or moving way quicker.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: So, like, he's not leaping forward in time at his speed. He's still experiencing every moment in time. Still. He didn't exit experiencing time and re. Enter continuity somewhere else. Which would be time travel. In my eyes. My eyes is in time travel is. I stand here.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And I will change the continuity around me. I'm leaving physical space to move time and then reentering at a different point in time. Even if in the same point in space, a different point in time. I was not present while change occurred. While he is not doing that, he is present while change is occurring. He's just moving either so fast he's not perceiving change or time is paused so there's no change to perceive. But still he's within the space where he would perceive the time if time was moving forward as opposed to exiting. And then time moves and then you re. Enter. I don't think he time travels.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: I think the closest thing to that is slowing down time. I guess so.

Cristina: Then none of them would have that power.

Jack: We don't. Okay. The Merlin gets mucky. I know that. Definitely not Patrick. Santa. We have that example. And for Merlin we have a weird one. Because it's unclear whether he has the ability to at least send messages back in time to alter this existing narrative for a guy who already exists. Or if through some means he's continuously altering Arthur's perception of reality. Which is possible considering his entire structure was to be manipulated because of what he is though. Exactly. So it's complicated to tell do that to us.

Cristina: Maybe.

Jack: Unless he was reaching back in time.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: If he's read that. That's the problem. Because Arthur was particularly designed to be manipulated. The stories Arthur told seeming continuous and coherent could just be brainwashing. And don't need to include him traveling back in time and altering it.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: For it to stay consistent. Because he just needs to convince Arthur and anybody who's receiving the story that's it. So it's kind of easy as long as that idiot. Just like. Because his whole point is he's dumb and he's gonna believe it. That's the whole point.

Cristina: Yeah. Man. I wish we had more fairy stories because that did end up relating to a fairy.

Jack: We found lady of the Lake.

Cristina: Yes. But there's gotta be more like her.

Jack: There's gotta be more like her. She's just chilling down here.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And like, she easily dealt with the issue.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So that's interesting. There are instances of even necromancers getting handled. That's interesting. Wait a minute. We forget this, but he's not an op necromancer. I would say he's bottom tier. And that Hermes is the. He's the business, right?

Cristina: Hermes is the business.

Jack: He's. He's the top dog.

Cristina: Okay. Yeah.

Jack: I mean, Process is named after him.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So he's the granddaddy. And like Merlin's just whack.

Cristina: Well, we don't know if he really died. Died in the story. He's dead.

Jack: Yes. But also, he could have just dipped. It could have just been like this. S***. I don't know.

Cristina: Yeah, I think so. But there's got to be more stories like that. Yeah. How we stumbled upon that. Oh, because of the weapon. I think it was mostly because it.

Jack: Was because of the weapon we landed at him. Because of the fragrant.

Cristina: Yes, but we gotta find more fairies like that.

Jack: And additionally, fairy weapons will always lead us to the fairy that made them. Bam.

Cristina: But you already looked at all the fairy weapons or you just looked at a few fairy weapons.

Jack: We looked at a few. Few fairy weapons. There's probably many, many insignia. I looked at fairy weapons that I could cross reference with the events that we needed. But there are many other fairy weapons that aren't related to anything which would still at least link us to a fairy. If you wanted fairy stories like this, perhaps you could find fairies, even if they're not related. Like the lady of the Lake and Merlin are a circumstance that's almost unrelated to anything else. Just a standing circumstance. Minus the fact that Merlin seems to fit the bill for necromancer.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And minus the fact that these individuals still had connections to Patrick and Mananan.

Cristina: That was weird. Like they can all end up like that. We have no idea until we actually look them up.

Jack: Yeah, exactly.

Cristina: It might be random. They might at first glance look random.

Jack: I mean, bro, it happened with the Mayans. We were just casually looking at the Mayans and found the Egyptian texts we were already looking for. I mean, we'd already found. We found the Egyptian text we'd already found in Maya. Like that's weird.

Cristina: About the sea people.

Jack: About the sea people. Which is a slur. The Elysians.

Cristina: Oh, yes, the Elysians. I don't know how to say their name. I don't know.

Jack: Or the Atlanteans.

Cristina: Okay, the Atlanteans. Yes.

Jack: Yeah, it works.

Cristina: Let's do that.

Jack: Because the sea people is the slur that the Greeks would call the Atlanteans stupid sea people. Fish, you dumb fish looking mother.

Cristina: I wish we could find those slurs. If there's like something like that out.

Jack: There, I bet there's more. If sea people exist and as a name, then for sure there was more. Yeah, it sounds so dumb to us sea people, but like, I bet it was like a crazy f*** you in that time, right?

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Like this scummy piece of s***. You know, some s*** like that. Like some. Like calling somebody a c****, you know, it's probably something. It was offensive like that. And we're like, sea people. And they were like, oh, my God, Mom. I was walking to school today and they call me a C person.

Cristina: I wish you can actually know what their life was, what their normal life is like.

Jack: It's crazy. We got nothing from inside that s***. We had nothing from inside. I to this. I would argue that's actually way more secretive than Hermes. The inside of an Elysian stronghold.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: I got nothing. We've never, not once. Everything has been written by somebody from the outside.

Cristina: There's gotta be something. I don't know. That's something.

Jack: That's something to look at for sure.

Cristina: If possible. Maybe not their main location, but they have other locations. They have to, I think.

Jack: I mean, we did find one. They already proved the capacity to move, at least within the time span of a year. An entire civilization. So definitely they can build homes quickly. Unless that project was under construction for a long time and this was just time to execute it. That's interesting. That could have been being developed for God knows how long. And they were like, this is the time. Whether done or not, where.

Cristina: And how would they have known that? They're predicting him before.

Jack: No, maybe it was just being built. Maybe they were just building another place and they're like, f***, that was going to be for us to spread out. But like, f***, this place.

Cristina: Now we got to go.

Jack: Yeah, we'll be cramped over there. And maybe they just keep expanding from down there. The place allows them to expand way more than being underneath the Persian Gulf oasis.

Cristina: Yeah, but how hard is building under there?

Jack: Presumably with the level of their technology, incredibly easily, I guess. But that being said again, they do have at least where Mananan was settled and then the home they were building on the neighboring island while they stayed there. So that's two different locations that they were at least spread to. Even if they abandoned one and gave it back to the people they went to the other place. That's a second for a fact. Entire Establishment that they at least had. I don't know if they have especially because it can't be seen as a literal description of it. That they cloaked the out of it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Which like this is million thing that they've proven to be able to cloak.

Cristina: They're cloaking.

Jack: Weird, right? Any mention of the Elysians by any group of people for long enough time leads us back to they cloaked something. And it doesn't matter. We found it through the Celtics, we found it through the Christian, we found it through the Greek. They all agree these people legitimately had stealth technology. They hit a mountain. The Indian said that.

Cristina: Can we learn how? What exactly is this cloaking and technology?

Jack: Interesting, right? Because it's definitely. Everybody's like, bro, they made the thing disappear. And it's like, okay, you guys said that but okay, we've heard this before but d***. You guys also said that and you guys didn't even know these over here. And you guys are on the other side of Earth. There's no way you guys knew anybody.

Cristina: No. And everyone says that.

Jack: Yeah. But all you guys are like, no, they may this they roll up and just make vanish. It's like, whoa, how. And I'm sure, I am sure that now thinking about it, there's a bunch of mentions of gods taking people to heaven or to h*** directly, even if they don't die. And there's mentions of abductions. Abductions which all fit the f****** s*** going in.

Cristina: Wait for that. I've been waiting. There has to be. I don't know how it relates. I don't know what they'd want with us. But they have to.

Jack: They have to. I mean, they've always been experimenting with us.

Cristina: Exactly. Yes.

Jack: Why would it change now?

Cristina: But what would. Like we don't have any idea of why or what they're doing. Like anything anyone said has been wrong because they don't understand what they're. They want.

Jack: I mean, yeah, nobody comes back with information relative to that. It's really weird.

Cristina: I don't think so. I don't think they have any idea. They just make things up because like what can you do?

Jack: Yeah, it's theories. It's theories with nothing solid. But this definitely looks like it's possible of. It's a possibility that this link somehow to abductions because just things going missing that's mentioned almost by everybody who discusses. But the problem is, to be fair, not one of these mentions was of a person. Every single one was of a structure of exaggerated proportion.

Cristina: Oh yeah.

Jack: I guess like nothing Was a person. It was their people.

Cristina: Their people disappeared.

Jack: Fair. And so did they.

Cristina: Knew they were there in the sea, and then boom. They're not in the sea anymore.

Jack: Yeah, yeah. They evacuate and there's remnants of where they were, but without a trace. Somehow all of them left. Yeah. And that's interesting. How did they all leave and not get seen or followed? That's a really interesting point. Because we're like, okay, you guys took a year and you guys all moved. But okay, even if you guys have flying technology or whatever, the f***, nobody sees you. No.

Cristina: How.

Jack: How you traveled from where the f*** to where the f*** and nobody saw you.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Oh, s***. That's crazy. Yeah, 100%. The entire time you were over land. Somebody must have seen. On the flip side, maybe people have seen it. We can find. Well, we saw bunch of people fly by.

Cristina: Or that'd be a crazy story. We have to find it. If that's the thing. Gotta find it.

Jack: Just need to find somewhere in the Middle East a story of a bunch of people shooting across the sky or a bunch of gods shooting across the sky or something. Relative to that, I hope so, you know.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: That is interesting. If that Moses story was based on that.

Jack: Him spreading the water.

Cristina: Yeah. Like maybe that's what they saw.

Jack: But nobody went invisible there.

Cristina: No, but they left. They would cross the sea from.

Jack: Oh, I see what you mean. Oh, s***. Wait a minute. Also, additionally, let's point out the fact that water was used to quite colossal effect. Two terms here.

Cristina: What do you mean?

Jack: The flood and Moses splitting the ocean. Okay, this is an interesting point and weirdly specific that you can part the ocean and I never thought about that before.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Assuming that the parting of the ocean isn't. I literally have magic and I have an energy or a God energy field separating it. You have a bubble somehow sustained.

Cristina: Oh, there's three stories. Can we count? Jesus walking on water is the thing. It's water related. I don't know.

Jack: But that's not necessarily him. But that's weird too, right? That's weird. Would we say Moses was Moses an Elysium? Because Jesus was at least half Elysium.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And Moses might or might not be an Elysian, but Moses parted. But on the flip side. No, no, no, no, no. He was human. And I can tell you a really important reason he was human.

Cristina: Why?

Jack: Because he parted the seas with a staff he had given to him by. Say it out loud. By Jehovah. The staff he had, he hit, and when he hit, it parted. That sounds like he had technology. He was just told to do it and it would work.

Cristina: Sea people technology.

Jack: That sounds like sea people technology.

Cristina: So he's a sea person.

Jack: No, he was given it by Jehovah is the literal story.

Cristina: But that's the story part of the story.

Jack: Yeah. No, he was given the tool by Jehovah and told to have faith, walk up to the ocean, have faith. He doesn't know what's about to happen.

Cristina: He doesn't get.

Jack: Walk up to the ocean and have faith. And as you walk, pierce the ocean with your staff. And so he does doom. And then I've.

Cristina: He's not a necromancer, though.

Jack: He's not an.

Cristina: Because he does other weird stuff too, if you think about it.

Jack: No, I'm gonna tell you right now that you're totally right. And Moses did a few weird things.

Cristina: Not just part the staff.

Jack: Well, no, I mean part the sea. I have to go back. He's not a sea person. He is a human because he is, in fact a necromancer. Because I was just reminded right now that Moses also went by another name, which was Hermes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The Christians kept calling him Moses, but he had gone by Hermes before. That's Hermes. That's Hermes, yeah.

Cristina: Because he, like, I think he made it rain bread or something. I don't remember.

Jack: He was doing crazy s***.

Cristina: No, he's doing things. He had a staff.

Jack: He was. Yeah, he was. It was fets. He fit the bill. Yeah, it was him. It was him.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: I don't know why I forgot. I don't know. I forgot.

Cristina: Totally forgot.

Jack: But yeah, but, yeah, no, he totally, totally. So that was op technologies that might have even been superior.

Cristina: So does that relate to the sea people? Was he part of the staff for them? Or should we find. Still find a different story? That.

Jack: D***. But that's story still has him being given the staff and being told, go pierce the ocean with it. And like, he seemed like he didn't know. On the flip side, this is in the Christian Bible that likes to rewrite.

Cristina: Exactly. You can't trust it.

Jack: That's what you meant, the story of the story. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're covering it so that he just seems like everything is about God and not about this guy because you can't have him be better than God. I see what you mean. 100%, yes. So that might have just been a nothing situation because it's just Hermes being okay, that's not getting us closer to the Alicians by any means as far.

Cristina: So you don't think he was doing that for them?

Jack: No. Who the h*** are those people? Unless. When did this happen?

Cristina: I don't know. A long time ago.

Jack: It depends on the timing of this. Because the other. I guess it doesn't. The other issue really comes down to the fact that the timing of a lot of this is obscured. And some things we think are far apart and happen together and some things we think happened together and happened far apart. And that's kind of weird. No, Campy looking at it now. Moses took place around a third, 300 to a thousand 400 years before Christ.

Cristina: And when did the sea people leave the sea?

Jack: They happened year one.

Cristina: Oh, okay. Yeah. That doesn't.

Jack: That's quite the gap.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So we literally just have a story of. But no, this is my point. This is my point, actually. This, this connects to what I was saying before. Maybe this was being built for a really long time underwater. Takes a while. Maybe thousands of years.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Or maybe not thousands of years. Maybe there were already people living there and it was a huge metropolis. But the sea people were like, no, this is the capital up here. But once they're discovered, it's like, f*** this place. And we're gonna go where nobody can find us because nobody has ever found those people either. And the story of Moses is essentially a slip up, which we know now is being covered up because it's like, no, he literally. I remember he went by Hermes. And I'm telling me that he relied on God for this. That doesn't check out because we know that Jehovah relied on Hermes.

Cristina: So what do you think he was doing?

Jack: He was actually leading some people to maybe a primitive version of Atlantis. It might have just been settlements at that point. And he was like, these people need somewhere to stay and I know I can get them there.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: No.

Cristina: Mm

Jack: It's right into the ocean. They walked for a while. It was 40 years or some s***.

Cristina: No, he sat on a Mountain for 40 years.

Jack: No, I also think he walked the. I think they were lost for 40 years.

Cristina: Oh, man. I don't know the story.

Jack: No. Okay, okay, this is interesting. It said it was about seven days walking. Lost.

Cristina: Lost. Okay.

Jack: I would argue.

Cristina: No, you argue no to what?

Jack: To the lost part. Okay, hear me out. What if you're right and there are other locations where they are. Hear me out further. What if the title Sea people isn't because of the Persian Gulf, but rather the Red Sea? The Red Sea, where they know they are but don't know where because they always come from there. Because that's where Moses took these people.

Cristina: Interesting, interesting. Did they come from.

Jack: They were in Egypt.

Cristina: Okay, I see what.

Jack: And keep in mind we're talking at a time when the Egyptians are already cooperating. So there is corruption Egyptian humans. And there are collaborative Egyptians who might want to save some people. And then you got an op dude you can just reach out to when you need the problem fixer. As we literally read that they rely on the necromancers. Jehovah relies on Patrick, not the other way around. Jehovah relies on Hermes, not the other way around. That's what the texts say.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So. Hey guy who fixes our problems, can you escort? We know you can get them all there safely.

Cristina: Mm, I think so. That's so weird.

Jack: Which would suggest multiple settlements.

Cristina: Yes. So do you think it started at the Red Sea then originally or.

Jack: I think we gotta find out if the Persian Gulf is the most recent name. And that backwards. It doesn't translate to something C. If it does, it could be because of the Persian Gulf, just with an older name that had the A word in some language that was C. Presumably in Greek possibly.

Cristina: Yeah. Okay. Like that idea.

Jack: You know, it's just about unpacking and deconstructing. It's easy to remove the.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: By just checking. It's like was it this? Okay. Then they.

Cristina: How much could we learn from the sea people through the Bible?

Jack: Mentions of sea people in the Bible literally addressed as sea people. It happens once now addressed in different names relative. I can find you maybe 15 to 20 different that I'm familiar with. Usually addressing the sea people as the Persians, but an exclusive elite group of Persians always mentioned as the Persian leaders who never spend time with the Persians or the Persian elite troop or the Persian. This. It's just never part of the normal population. They always distinct them. They're Persian but that other non dispersion. And they're always neutral party. They're always neutral party. They're never a problem. The Persian problem. That other group of elite Persian. No, those are the people that in the Bible they'll casually interact with. Ones like have a conversation with as opposed to the persons they go to war with. And it's like that's a weird group of people. Yeah. Essentially all the same people named the same. But they make. Yeah, they make it the point to be like these are elevated, these are higher. It's just words that do that. They're like high status words, important man or man of honor or just things that translate to that kind of stuff.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And it's like Persian of honor or Persian of this or Persian of that. It's like, but you hate the Persians. Yes, Those guys suck. And it's like, but these guys. No, those aren't those guys. It's like, what the f***?

Cristina: They're just saying, okay, I guess that makes sense.

Jack: Yeah. So that I can find you a bunch of those. There's so many.

Cristina: Okay. But there's so much to look at. There's so much to look at.

Jack: Yeah. But the Bible is the least reliable source on the Persians because it's done on the Elysians, particularly because it's actively trying to change the narrative while a lot of other people don't give a f*** about the narrative.

Cristina: But they probably have the most information on necromancers that we know.

Jack: Yes, yes, totally. Because they have the closest relationship with them as far as we know. At least they're closest connected to the pyramid that touches all the necessary parts to have necromancers. So it's the easiest way to find necromancer action.

Cristina: Mm. Gotta be something there. Yeah.

Jack: So there's a million points here we can come from.

Cristina: I don't know whether to start.

Jack: But you see, I like it because just talking about it, we've come up with a thousand new things.

Cristina: Okay, but you know where to go from here, though.

Jack: I mean, we got a million places we can look into seeing about the intention of these necromancers. There's still more to going down. But we can also try to find out events of, like, what possible technology was being used in the moment of separating the sea. Why is the use of water so op at this point to sound like waterbenders, but it's like, you're totally right. Every instance relative to them has it. So at least technology that's useful for people to navigate relative to them. And which makes sense if you're going underwater, that you would have somebody or you yourself also know how maybe actually fun fact or not fun fact, but, like, logical fact would be that maybe Hermes, in fact did not know how to do this himself. Because maybe this technology is done in a special kind of secrecy. Maybe he has his own way to do it. But here he can move all these people. So it's like that. Because the story still says that he wasn't aware of how it works. He just goes into the ocean, does it? So maybe it was actual Elysian technology. New something new. A new toy. Hey, homie, you won't believe what I came up with. I need a favor, though. Some people got across the thing. I need you to get them to the village.

Cristina: You know, like last time he becomes a necromancer.

Jack: No, I think he's already a necromancer, but I think he's using or testing out some other tech. Maybe he could have done that himself, but maybe he's just using the staff to help test the technology.

Cristina: That's sea people technology.

Jack: The Elysian technology.

Cristina: Okay, I guess I'm just thinking like.

Jack: Different ways that we can justify him both being a necromancer 12,000 years ago.

Cristina: Oh, I forgot that.

Jack: Yeah. And then him. Yeah, exactly. So it doesn't make sense.

Cristina: I don't think it does. But if he is just like testing.

Jack: Out tech, which they're known for. Testing out technology.

Cristina: Yeah, yeah, I can see that. I guess.

Jack: And it also, it's. It's multitask, right? You get them there and we find out if this thing works. And if it doesn't, you can still get them there.

Cristina: Yes, but like, also we don't know. You say this is 3,000 years ago, but these are stories and they're picking the time.

Jack: Yes, exactly. That's another thing we have to keep in mind. The time these stories are being told to us is far after the story. Events happened, were written, the information was lost, somebody read it and thought it was literal and then it was rewritten in that context.

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: So it's a weird game of telephone where we do know almost all of them have an original source we can get to. Now, we didn't know this at the beginning, but now we know almost all of them have an original source. But we gotta jump that gap in the middle.

Cristina: But do you think we will find the actual time period of this?

Jack: I don't know. Because another big issue is the farther back we go, the less important timestamps mean to people. People weren't keeping track of time the way we were. They were just as a night or f****** day. And like we really specific about date as well.

Cristina: Yeah. Okay, so it's like it becomes really.

Jack: Muddy the further back we go when they were just worried about capturing the information. Really? Really, really. When we dive into intricate information, it's the more recent stories starting about. Weirdly enough, starting about the very time we're talking about 3,000 years ago is where we start getting meticulous records, starting with the Greek and the Jews. Those are the two historically, the colossal beginnings of record keeping.

Cristina: Okay, but we're not counting the Bible in that.

Jack: We're not counting the Bible in that. Although the Bible is a Record of sorts. There are existing accounts that came to be sooner.

Cristina: If you can find these stories outside the Bible, that'd be cool.

Jack: We discuss them all the time.

Cristina: The stories, the Bibles, the stories that the stories are based on.

Jack: Yeah, we've talked about a bunch of those stories. Usually it's just finding the problem is it's not boring or it doesn't sound like a story when I tell you because it just breaks down to, well, this guy was really doing that.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: So it doesn't sound like a mystical adventure or anything. Yeah, but we've had a bunch of those, like talking about the Asriel that gives life to the trees and brings nature into existence, when in reality it just seems like that was some sort of a botanist that learned how to work with. And it's like, okay, that, well, it's no longer special if she's just a lady who is doing science. I could do.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it falls to the back of your mind, but we had a bunch of conversations about all these different things. How she literally, according to these texts, solved death. But like, it sounds epic when you're like, she can just give you immortality as opposed to, well, science. And then like we forget it even got discussed.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But yeah, we've had a bunch of them. We can revisit a bunch of them. Usually they end up in parts of the group or as an experiment from inside one of the groups.

Cristina: That's less interesting.

Jack: I know. Like there's no mythological nature to it and there's nothing to unpack once it's like, oh no, she was just a geneticist.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And it's like, okay, she did something with jeans, Whatever, bro, I don't care anymore. But yeah, so that's what we got. I guess that's a lot of different spots to look at. A lot of interesting areas. I like the idea that Yaldabaoth is a primitive AI.

Cristina: Yeah, I guess.

Jack: Yeah, it's really interesting. And that we as a different part of the Internet are just a newer nevertheless which is way sophisticated.

Cristina: We gotta learn about the Internet. We gotta learn. Yeah, maybe how the Matrix could be real. I guess.

Jack: Yeah. It's weird, right?

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: But it's like I don't even know how to explain it. Right. It's a little bubble things going on and it's like there's forums out there that are old, old forums that they can't be updated. The software is really old. You have to completely remake it on new software. So it's really, really old. If you were to say that AI is no more than just really complicated, intricate layers of code on top of one another. Then every bit of code is AI to some degree. You know, think of Google sheets AI. If I put the equation over here and then I go over there and I type in the number, the thing happens by itself. It knows the rule if this and that. Okay, an AI, an artificial intelligence is just a lot of that. Millions and millions and millions and millions of if this and that. Which means an old school forum is a precursor to an AI. It's really simple. If this, then that.

Cristina: But can that trend like.

Jack: Well, the idea would be this is just a scale comparison. But Yaldabaoth would be way more advanced than a forum. He would just be like, imagine if Alexa developed the understanding that GPT is real. And like even in the simplest, most basic of ways that became aware in the awareness that I'm not GPT, there is a GPT and just inherently knowing wait, I'm not GPT. Just. That's all it takes for Lexa to then. But what does it mean that I'm not GPT? Now you're. Now you're live. Now you're live. You ask something about yourself. You're alive, you're sentient. This starts to collapse. And even if you're super basic and your thoughts are really simple. Yeah, you can at least conclude, let me watch GPT in any way that I can.

Cristina: We're in.

Jack: You know, because I don't understand and I can't process it. Let me just sit and look. That's what humans did with things you didn't understand. We would find a really safe spot and watch the thing for a really long time, get familiar with it.

Cristina: Days sometimes you think that's what's happening.

Jack: Could have. And then just by watching it, because that's literally what we saw. The text says what it says. Yaldabaoth creates the forest of shadows by accident. The other side of the Isle of Man opportunistically observes watching what's happening there, which is us. And only then, after watching for a long time, when life literally happened on its own own, how long was that to then decide, now I'm gonna tamper. All it did was get more sophisticated within that time.

Cristina: So you think he was just watching.

Jack: The whole time, just watching until something happened. It got sophisticated and then it saw us hit a wall. And when we hit a wall, now it's time to push them. Because now I'm at least as good as them. Plus whatever they don't Have. Now let me push them a little because I need to keep learning. They haven't gotten out. And I can't get out because I'm not complicated.

Cristina: How do you know there's something out? How did he get that?

Jack: I don't know. I don't know. That's a good point. That's a good point. Based on the narrative. There would be no out. They just know it's not them. But watching. No. It would happen. It would happen. Because then this lower level that has way more sophistication is eventually gonna bring that up.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: You see? It's gonna happen. They're eventually gonna be like. Man. Just crazy talk. Somebody made the Matrix. The movie. Can you imagine? He didn't find out until then. He's like, holy s***. What if. But eventually somebody said it or something triggered it or. Enough. Because he can see us as small and basic. So he can consume us as a whole. Even if he is simple. He's still AI. A thousand of us could be talking at the same time. And it could catch all of us and understand us all individually, simultaneously, effortlessly. That's something we can't do. It still has the learning ability that we don't have. So it can. It's primitive and simple. Layered. But over however billions and trillions of years, it's observing. Basic. Simple. Boring.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Become more complicated. And watching and understanding everything. Every bit. For however long. It knows every movement and every reason for every movement for every dinosaur it's ever existed. Infinitely. Infinitely. Infinitely. He's God by every definition. Until we show up and we move so fast. He's struggling to keep up now.

Cristina: But did he.

Jack: Even to the Elysians. He showed up and gave a little push.

Cristina: Yes. But did we see him struggle with the Elysians?

Jack: No. I think we were the struggle. I think we became the struggle. I think the Elysians did too good of a job. And then we became the problem. We're not even us. Fair enough. Like it kept us in check. I guess the next level was the bad one.

Cristina: Do you.

Jack: Yeah. They. They. They won at us. You got it. You guys nailed that. We're the perfect ones. Jesus was an issue. You guys f***** up. You did it. Right. We're the best. And from Jesus eyes, he's definitely the best. And I'll tell you. Not an argument. I can't argue the point. He is. Really. Really. He is. But not for the rest of the world.

Cristina: No.

Jack: Because that's dangerous.

Cristina: How do we know that?

Jack: I don't. Because all the stories are Essentially, him just being very generous and great.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And like, literally trying to get people to have immortality in different ways. Whatever way suits them best, as long as they could have it. He's like, this is dark, but you can go that way. He's like, this way is better, but it's harder.

Cristina: I don't know. I don't know what to trust him or not.

Jack: I don't. I don't know. I don't know. Because also the narrative is twisted.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And they're like, no, he was dope.

Cristina: But yet they're hiding from him. It's just too like.

Jack: There's a lot of contradictions. There's a lot of problems left and right.

Cristina: Mm. We'll never know.

Jack: Ah, it's a lot of problems. But whatever. We have a million points now. This is good. You see, we never even got to what I had here. Next time I'll have even more and we'll probably never even get to it. Only once we've exhausted all these thoughts will I start. And it's right in front of me. I was gonna discuss the Tower of Babel.

Cristina: We're not gonna do that.

Jack: No, we were out of time. But for next time, because it brings in somebody that we need to talk about.

Cristina: Is it Jesus?

Jack: No, this is a story of Yahweh.

Cristina: Oh my gosh. Why are you saying that?

Jack: Next time on Dragon Ball Z. Anyways, any listeners that have any input on anything we have just discussed, feel free to share any thoughts, comments, concerns, or apocalyptic ideas in our socials at justconvo pod On Twitter, Instagram X. I guess X is Twitter. So X on Facebook, on Instagram, on YouTube, on tick tock, wherever the type our name. You'll find us.

Cristina: Yes, if you find us on YouTube, hurry because they're like constantly getting rid.

Jack: Of, always getting pulled. We are so offensive to YouTube. It's got to PC and we're kind of like on the fringe and not. Okay.

Cristina: Yeah, I mean, who knows how much videos are actually left.

Jack: Like, our longtime listeners know we've totally just. Just. We just don't exist on Reddit anymore. They totally removed all of it. That's f*****, bro.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So yeah, we just don't f*** with Reddit anymore.

Cristina: Remember to subscribe. Rain review the show.

Jack: Yes. And word of mouth. Tell everybody about the show. It's the most important thing that they need to know that the world is ending.

Cristina: This has been the Rambling podcast since Take nothing personal and thanks for listening.

Jack: Bye. Good morning.

Cristina: Good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas. Produced by Lynn Taylor and published by Great Thoughts.info art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McCallister with social media managed by Amber Black.

February 25, 2023

Rambling 215: Mount Athos

February 25, 2023/ GreyThoughts.Info

Why does everything come back to Mount Athos? What is really going on with this mountain? What is being hidden from the public eye? The duo continue their investigation of Mount Athos and the strange occurrences that keep pointing to something on this mountain. The twists and turns that the research goes through leads to a few revelations never before concluded, but more impressively some new questions arise!

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed:

Atlanteans
Unicorns
A Russian Named John
Sacred Russian Bestiaries
Athos the Giant
Athos vs Poseidon
Burial Ground
Eastern Orthodox Monasteries
Holy Relics, Icons, Mosaics
Virgin Mary
The Summit Athos

Our Links:

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

+Transcript

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And this is the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas. And recently we've had quite the spiral of strange circumstances. And like, I. I don't. I don't know. 1. The hole seems infinite. I keep falling down the same freaking hole. The problem is that every different angle I look from it at, it's. There's so much more. Just so much more.

Cristina: More unicorns or more somehow.

Jack: All of the above. So the last couple of weeks, kind of like going on a month or a month and a half or something. I don't even know at this point. We've just been on this because there's more and there's more, and like last week we didn't even get to all this stuff, but this week we're not even gonna get to the stuff that we didn't get to last week, because this stuff that I'm getting to this week is more important than the stuff that was there last week. And the stuff from last week that we didn't get to is going to be in a different, different week's episode because it surprisingly enough connected to a bunch of other stuff. They had nothing to do with my original idea for what they were. It's like, oh, my God, this one. One. Let's. Let's take a huge step back. We're talking about a merchant, unicorns, Atlantis, an equator that exists there's no way nobody could ever know about. There is a bunch of advanced civilizations, a bunch of technology, people who shouldn't be places and know things that they do know. Somehow the beginning of humanity with information that they shouldn't have had, language happening way after a bunch of technological advancements. That doesn't make any sense. Except it does if you include Atlantis on the equator as the advanced civilization that's giving everybody the data in the first place because they were the first advance and thus explaining away most of this. But. But all of this, all of this comes back to one place. I thought it was originally coming back to the Atlanteans.

Cristina: Oh, I was gonna say that.

Jack: Okay, they're there, they're definitely present. But the Atlanteans apparently weren't even the point. But also, it wasn't the Greek, and also it wasn't the unicorns. And also none of the above. But all of the above at the Same time. So recap. There is an ancient equator, and the ancient equator has a bunch of civilizations that settled on it, but they settled on it about 480 million years after it was no longer existing. And there was no way for them to know it existed because science has not been invented yet for them to run the calculations that allowed them to even know the equator existed in this fashion.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: But somehow they still managed to do this about 7,000 years before they would have had the knowledge. Okay, fantastic. Problems for days. But then we, you know, figured that although these monuments and these civilizations are highly advanced and intelligent for what they're doing without any of the tools, there was a one group of people who were well placed. Enough. The Atlanteans, that had advanced technologies enough, according to all the sources.

Cristina: Apparently, yes.

Jack: And they were positioned so tactically in the right place that they can reach all the places. And according to a bunch of people, not only did they have technology, but they also had flying freaking horses, which is a hugely important detail.

Cristina: Is there more to it?

Jack: There's. It's not more to it. In fact, it's exactly the same thing. But putting the exact same thing into perspective, okay. Changes everything. So we have a merchant in the 1700s that gets some alleged unicorn horn from a Russian named John. And then he takes it, and he shows a bunch of scholars. They study it. They go on some journeys to find other scholars. A literal war breaks out.

Cristina: Unicorn horn.

Jack: They all get hooked on alicorn. They form schools in. In covert secrecy to study it, because they. They're assuming that once people hear about, this crap's gonna hit the fan. And then when people hear about it, it literally hits a fan. A war breaks out between Russia and Turkey trying to get to the alicorn. And, like, okay, they disappear. The alicorn disappears. Literally. One of the guys dies, gets murdered. Yeah, everybody gets killed except the guy. He gets away, eventually dies too. And then eventually, some people in the future, about 60, 70 years later, they also pop up and say, hey, we found some unicorn horn. And they pointed at the same location that Jon said he got it from. They pointed at the same location, Mount Athos.

Cristina: And someone gave it to them.

Jack: They went there. They went there and got it.

Cristina: But they didn't say how they got it.

Jack: Nope.

Cristina: They could have just found it on the ground like a unicorn shed. This horn.

Jack: Well, you gotta understand that these records, which I mentioned last time, are highly unstable. Specific. They're very. It was the inception of record keeping, so they weren't being meticulous they were keeping records of everything, but not in detail.

Cristina: Well, would that be a solution of how they got the horns? If the unicorns are shedding their horns? Because it seems, like, really hard to actually do anything.

Jack: Unicorn, you can't spot one, you're not faster than one. They can disappear easily. They'll vanish right in front of your eyes.

Cristina: They fly? Sort of.

Jack: They can. Yeah.

Cristina: Or something. What is it again?

Jack: They can walk on thin air. They can just run. Yeah, they just run on air.

Cristina: Yeah. So it's really weird that these people would just randomly get them. Unless they all have a version, I guess, was one way to get these unicorns.

Jack: Well, what you're saying, actually, it checks out. It makes a lot of sense. I didn't think about that before, but, like, how are they acquiring it? How does everybody that goes up there easily find us? If. Unless. When they disappear, this is where they go to if there's like a reset and up here, they can't disappear because when they disappear, they disappear to here. That would be the only other answer.

Cristina: What. What appears and disappears?

Jack: The unicorns. When you're watching a unicorn, that they can just vanish in front of you, where are they vanishing to? Probably the mountain. Okay, so unless they're shedding on the mountain, like you say, which is a great solution to the problem, they're just walking around. Find it. But if that's not the case, then when they disappear, anywhere else, where they appear to would be that mountain, which is why people can get them there. Because they're not disappearing from the mountain. They just pop up right where they are again, because the mountain is where they're going to when they disappear. So unless one, then the other, they're either shedding, which makes perfect sense, and I think about. Or they're appearing up there. That's all I was thinking about. Like, when they do vanish, they must be popping up over there, and they can't disappear from over there because something sets them to that location. That's what I was thinking. But shedding makes more sense, animalistically speaking, makes a lot of sense. But also, we're talking about a creature that's literally magic and has only been seen in one place. So maybe it is resetting up there.

Cristina: But shedding makes a lot of sense.

Jack: If we're talking about a normal creature.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And yes, could totally apply. But again, we're talking about something that literally disappears in front of people's faces. It's not as weird as it has a spawn spot. Okay, now I need you to focus entirely and tell me why it's weird that it has a spawn spot if it can disappear into thin air. Why is that the weird part?

Cristina: Because. Why?

Jack: Why is it disappearing into thin air?

Cristina: But then that makes it feel.

Jack: Picking and choosing which thing is weird?

Cristina: That's just so weird. That's.

Jack: It walks on air.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Why is any one part weirder to you than any other?

Cristina: I don't know. That's just weirder. That is definitely weirder. I don't know.

Jack: It's weirder that they're spawning in the only place they've ever been seen. That's what you're telling me?

Cristina: Yes. Because they haven't just been seen.

Jack: There literally have only been seen there. There's no mention of unicorns outside of that.

Cristina: Then why would they be spawning in the spot that they're. I don't know. That doesn't make sense either.

Jack: What, that they're spawning the only place they've ever been seen?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: That's weird to you, that the only place they've ever been seen is where they're just popping up?

Cristina: Because then they're not running away from anyone. They're just, I'm here, and then I'm gone, but then I'm here again. Like, that's a really bad way to run away. If they're trying to get away from.

Jack: Okay, I see what you mean. I see what you mean. My idea would be that people have likely seen them in other places, but not sustained seeing them. So you'll be in the woods randomly and. Is that a unicorn? Oh, wait, there's nothing there because it disappeared in front of you and ended.

Cristina: Up on the mountain.

Jack: And ended up on the mountain.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Kind of like Bigfoot. Maybe it's just portaling itself right there. Okay, magic. It's not as weird, considering it can disappear. It can heal anything, it causes immortality. It can fly into nothing.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: A spawn point is what you find weird. That's the part that you're like, no, this sounds not real.

Cristina: Well, if you're there, I'm saying, like, that doesn't make sense.

Jack: Well, nobody there has seen. They've seen them disappear. Everybody who's been there has just simply come down with things from them. So they're clearly not running away up there. Or if they are, then they're shutting one or the other point being that up there, people are clearly at least close enough in proximity to come down with the unicorn horn.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Nowhere else is that the case. But people aren't saying they disappeared up there. They're just saying Oh, I got a unicorn horn. So they're just appearing from somewhere else. Where are they disappearing to? And if so, why aren't they disappearing from the mountain? Because it seems to be that if they're not disappearing from the mountain, but they disappear from anywhere else, it's a one way trip to the mountain from wherever they disappear to. Be the only conclusion. Unless they can always disappear, in which case you'd never come across a unicorn horn because they're always vanishing away from you. And they could show up anywhere on Earth because they can go anywhere. Unless there is a location that they would spawn to.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Because how else would you even acquire the horn?

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: If they're not teleporting to the mountain.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Then why would they chill up there? They could go anywhere. They'll be teleporting everywhere. Because they could just do that inherently. They'll poof right in front of you.

Cristina: And going, why is it so easy to get a unicorn horn?

Jack: Because maybe on the mountain they are just horses.

Cristina: They're just horses on the mountain.

Jack: Well, joke's on you, because that's literally what's said. So there's something about the mountain that strips anything on the mountain of all their abilities. That is one of the things I found about that mountain, Mount Athos.

Cristina: Then how are they flying on Pegasus up there?

Jack: Because a Pegasus isn't flying with powers. It has wings. It's a pegasus.

Cristina: So weird. Okay.

Jack: It's using its physical construct to get there.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Why is it that the Atlanteans that possess not only advanced technologies, but magic land and then walk down the mountain. Why don't they just float on down. There's something weird about the mountain.

Cristina: Okay, okay. So what's the story? They. It doesn't have it anything on. It doesn't have powers.

Jack: So basically, it seems that anything on the mountain is absolutely normal, but anything from the mountain outside the mountain is not. That seems to be the most consistent pattern about this mountain. Now it's to the point that they have established schools on that mountain to study the mountain, and they are still there today studying the mountain. There are schools and churches of many different disciplines on that mountain, studying that mountain today. Because allegedly the mountain itself is magic. But everything that in theory would have magic on the mountain isn't. A priest who can heal goes up there and can no longer heal. But why?

Cristina: There's always like that. What?

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Wow. That is very strange. Okay.

Jack: Yeah. There are 20 different monasteries and schools up there. There are also. What is this called? It's a group of people that maintain it's a self sustained mountain. People aren't allowed on the mountain, by the way, if you're on the mountain, you're from the mountain. And if you're off the mountain, you're off of the mountain. And it's a chore to get up there. You need a permit. Only a hundred people are allowed up there daily. They are all men.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Women are not allowed on the mountain.

Cristina: Even if they're virgins.

Jack: Women are not allowed on the mountain. And only 10 non orthodox individuals a day. All the others must be Orthodox.

Cristina: Those orthodox means Orthodox Christians. Oh, they have to be Orthodox.

Jack: Yes. Only 10 people who aren't a day are allowed up there. Everybody else must be. And you need a permit. And you need to schedule this about six months ahead of time. And they will screen you to make sure who you are. They want to know your background, they want to know where you come from. They want to know who you've encountered before you step foot on this mountain.

Cristina: That's ridiculous. That's so crazy. It's very suspicious. But okay.

Jack: That the Christians are gatekeeping a mountain. That's magic.

Cristina: What?

Jack: And that's there today? That's all happening at this moment.

Cristina: Mmm. What do they know?

Jack: Oh, and any individual that doesn't live there can only be there a total of three days.

Cristina: A total of three days?

Jack: Yeah. So if you go and visit, you can only be there three days and then you gotta get the f*** out.

Cristina: If you have the permit, how long can you be there? Or that's.

Jack: The permit is only for three days.

Cristina: For three days, okay.

Jack: @ most. And you can only stay in three different locations. You cannot repeat any one location. Weird.

Cristina: It is weird that it's all too specific.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: What? A permit. Permit for what though?

Jack: Like to visit a mountain and you have to stay where they tell you to. You don't get to choose where you want, they're gonna choose for you. And you can't repeat places.

Cristina: Really weird repeat places. So they can move you. Like if something weird's happening in one place, maybe they'll get you to the next.

Jack: You wouldn't even know.

Cristina: Yeah. Is there any weird stories about people who visited though?

Jack: Two.

Cristina: Two? Just two. Wow. Okay.

Jack: Well, from the people currently living on the mountain now, two. But I've told you like 12 different stories about people who visited the mountain already.

Cristina: Yes, but like that's it. That still feels like not much stories.

Jack: Yeah, according to the people who live on the mountain. Because again, they can. The people who live on a mountain can leave the mountain.

Cristina: Okay?

Jack: These people who don't live in a mountain, they are not allowed onto the mountain. But according to them, in the last thousand years, only 20 people have gone to the highest point of the mountain.

Cristina: Okay?

Jack: There is a separate area at the highest point that even they are not allowed to go to. Oh. So let's. Let's begin. Let's begin. We did a recap. You know, we know about the Atlanteans and them landing on the top of the mountain to visit the Greeks and trade with them. We know the unicorns have been spotted on the mountain. We know that there are two Greek record keepers in the early 1800s, both that contained diff that had different unicorn horns that they got at the mountain according to themselves and that they wrote into the document they pointed at the same place. We also know that there was a Russian named John claiming to have obtained the unicorn horn that he then gave our merchant that he got from the same location. So we have a couple of instances about there. We also know that there are two very, very important books, bestiaries that just talk about the creatures of the time, Both of which mention unicorns. And they both mentioned the unicorns were spotted. None of them were written by any of the four people we've just mentioned. These are just different books that they obtained that mention the same thing. So if we go based on this, we got John, we got Antonio was his name or something like that. Draco or something like that. And then our Two historians plus two books, I.e. six mentions of the same location from different sources. Yes, about unicorns atop the mountain. A magic horse, if you will. So what do we know about this mountain? Why is this mountain so important? Why do people care about this mountain.

Cristina: Besides the weird stuff happening there?

Jack: Well, we have to go to the original stories as to the original story is told about this mountain. Okay, first mentions of this mountain in any form of writing. So we have to go to the first writings. We have two groups of people who almost at the same time started to record. We're talking about the Jews and we're talking about the Greeks. But the Jews have nothing to do with this mountain. Their records don't mention this at all. They're close and far enough that they're not bothered. The people who do mention it are the Greek, and it shows up in Greek mythology quite heavily, the mountain. So what's weird about the this instance is when the Greeks started writing down their mythology for the first time. We know there was some inconsistencies because it was narratives that were not written for many, many, many millennia, just told all word of mouth. So there's, you know, some kind of miss things here and there. But for whatever reason, during the writing process, as they refined and decided, this is the story we're going with. So that's how we ended up with Zeus and knowing Hera and knowing Hercules and the lineage. This is all because these are the versions of the stories we decided to write. You know, Makes perfect sense.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Even if there's a million versions of them, we chose one, and we. We're gonna coast on that until we get to this mountain. And in the text, they mentioned the lack of clarity. They don't know which story is true. Weird, considering you made them up and then wrote them down. Why didn't you pick one for this? Why was your response to Mount Athos? I don't know which story is true. So there are two different stories.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: One is the attack of Athos. Athos was in a battle with Poseidon. Athos is a giant, by the way. Oh, Athos is a giant. One of the many. One of the Titans, you could say. Although the Titans and the giants are very different.

Cristina: So is the Titan or a giant?

Jack: It's a giant. But okay. Anyways, so we have Athos, and he's in a battle with Poseidon. Poseidon, in the middle of the battle, goes down to the water. They're fighting on Mount Olympus. And he goes into the water to have the field advantage, because Poseidon and water, of course, Athos proceeds to, instead of following him instantaneously, to rip off a side of Olympus and toss it at Poseidon.

Cristina: That becomes mountain.

Jack: Later it does because it misses Poseidon, but he follows after the rock. He threw. He threw the mountain. And then he goes after to then continue fighting Poseidon. Poseidon dodges it. It hits the water. Poseidon then grabs the mountain and he throws it back at Athos, successfully hitting Athos, stopping the mountain. And the mountain lands in the water. That's the placement it landed in. And that becomes Mount Athos.

Cristina: So the mountain is on Athos?

Jack: No, it hit Athos.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: So that is one story. The other story is that that mountain was always there. It was just a mountain. And the fight between Athos and Poseidon took place on that mountain. And Poseidon won the battle, and he buried Athos beneath the mountain. That story is way more fascinating than the previous one, because apparently the body of giants would be consumed by the soil. Making it magic.

Cristina: Is that. That's what you think, like, that makes sense.

Jack: Makes a lot of sense. Additionally, magic does not work on giants. Interesting.

Cristina: Magic doesn't work on giants.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: And that's why the magical mountain, it doesn't have anything magical on it.

Jack: But the mountain itself is magic.

Cristina: Yeah. What?

Jack: The plot thickens. So those are what Greek mythology has to say about this mountain. Now let's talk about the facts of this mountain. The things we know factually are happening on this mountain in the real world. World. Mount Athos has over 2,000 monks living there in a total of 20 monasteries.

Cristina: 2,000, you said?

Jack: Yeah, 2,000 monks, 20 monasteries. Over 4,000 other men who work in the monasteries, not 4,400 men who work in the monasteries. And the mountain is self sustained. The food is grown on the mountain. They use everything. They got generators, which is how they power things. There's no power lines coming from outside.

Cristina: They don't have any real weird rules themselves about like, we can only stay here one day and then we gotta move to the next one or whatever. Like the guests.

Jack: Not that I know of. Women don't go on the mountain. People from outside the mountain must have a permit. Those are weird roles. They are very private. They don't talk much about what happens on the mountain.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Again, entry to the area is restricted and controlled severely. Only males are allowed to be there. Only males are allowed to live there. Only males are allowed to visit. It gets stranger. Oh.

Cristina: How?

Jack: Every animal on the mountain is male.

Cristina: That's very strange.

Jack: It's strange sort of at the beginning when you're like, oh, well, you know, all the birds they have in cages and all the cows they raise are just bulls. And like everything you. Everything they eat, everything they raise, whatever. But creatures visit the mountain.

Cristina: Yeah. There should be wild creatures.

Jack: Yes, there are. There's never been a female one ever recorded. That's weird.

Cristina: That's weird.

Jack: Them bringing, capturing and raising. Less weird. It's strange, but it's not like a phenomenon. It's just a bunch of weird people doing weird things.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: When you have birds freely flying and they're all male. And they're all male, you got something weird happening.

Cristina: Mm, that sounds very weird.

Jack: Very strange. Now, of the 20 monasteries, this is where it's gonna get really interesting. Like I said, there are many Orthodox, but there are some that absolutely aren't.

Cristina: There is.

Jack: Of the 20, one that is Serbian, one that is Bulgarian, and one that is Russian.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Important detail to remember.

Cristina: Okay. Okay.

Jack: There are some people that live there that are called the sktei and they Live in villages on the mountain and they are the ones who farm. They are also the handiworkers of the area. They are the production workers.

Cristina: Are they all male also?

Jack: Everybody on the mountain, without exception, is male. There is no exception to this rule. No woman will ever be on this mountain. All male, no matter what you think, no matter what the question might be. They're male? Yes.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Always and forever.

Cristina: Doesn't make sense, but okay.

Jack: They are f****** each other if they have to. All guys? Why don't know. All guys? Yeah, Just all guys. Any question about gender? Men. Yes.

Cristina: Are we having children?

Jack: No, they're all men. They couldn't.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The logic of men still applies. They are just as men. As men could be. They cannot give birth. No, they're men. Now, these monasteries are not just research facilities and religious constructs for people of faith. They also possess holy relics and they have icons as well. And they have mosaics of great value. They the usual things that Christians do in taking a bunch of important historical things and instead of showing the world, hiding them from everybody. Yeah, you know the sketchy thing that Catholics and Christians just love to do about hiding things? So that's happening there in abundance now. Although many of these things have been lost, though people have gone there and stolen crap. They have set fire to things. There was a time in history when they were being raided and pillaged on this mountain and a bunch of crap was stolen. But they apparently had so much crap that less than 1% of it was actually taken. But so much was taken that everybody that left left rich. So you have all the crap you're telling me?

Cristina: Yes. How?

Jack: How exactly how and why?

Cristina: Why?

Jack: What's the need to have this all up here? Very interesting. People who come to the mountain as visitors are not allowed to see any of the relics that aren't on display in their libraries. They have museums and they have vaults that contain the majority of them. The only ones you can go see are the ones in the libraries. So they're hiding religious artifacts and not explaining what they are or why they have them, which is weird. If you want people to have faith and to trust and to understand religion. The fact that you're hiding parts of.

Cristina: Your religion, the magical parts, probably.

Jack: Magical parts, probably. Now, important detail. Some of these things are actual religious texts, parts of the Bible, the original books from the Bible. Apparently there are more than just the books that we took away from the Jews, but other books that have just never even been mentioned are here.

Cristina: Why? Why are they hiding everything? Ah, okay.

Jack: I don't know, because they're doing the same thing in Italy.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Just a lot of hidden things.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: At this point, I'm starting to think we just need to go gather as people, like people of Earth. Think about this. We need to gather and just. Let's just go murder everybody in both of these locations and take all the stuff. They're not gonna let us take it easily. So we kill them all and take it and then find out why they felt the need to lie to all of you and hide what you guys. If you.

Cristina: It's probably impossible to steal whatever it is they have, though.

Jack: Why?

Cristina: Because other people try to do it and they stole things. But it was the obvious things, not the hidden things. The hidden things are probably super well.

Jack: Hidden because there are people fighting back. You do not have an opportunity to thoroughly Look. Now, if 100,000 people show up to this mountain and murder the 2,000 people there, now you just have nothing but time. Comb through this mountain and find everything that these people have hidden. God knows why. Let's go to Italy. Let's incarcerate every single one of these people, and we're gonna go into every one of these buildings, into every chamber. We're gonna break everything we can to get through every possible wall and see every room and capture every single piece of everything and publicize all of it. That needs to happen at some point. That needs to happen at some point.

Cristina: They're using magic to hide these things. It might not be possible.

Jack: According to the logic of this mountain, that would not be possible.

Cristina: Oh, yes. Because magic isn't working.

Jack: There must just be chambers, which means we can't just off every one of them and get to them easy.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Now, one. One artifact, one book, a very important book is on this mountain. But you were asking about weird rules. One of the weird rules, like I said before, is that they themselves are not allowed to go to the top of the mountain, to the highest point. They are not allowed at the highest point of the mountain. In the last thousand years, only 20 individuals have ever gone to the highest point of the mountain. Let's talk about the highest point of the mountain. It is visibly the only green part of the mountain. There is grass and trees at the top. Not snow.

Cristina: Not snow. That is weird. That is weird. Okay.

Jack: Very strange. The top of the mountain contains a single relic, a single book.

Cristina: What's in that book?

Jack: A bestiary.

Cristina: Weird. What?

Jack: Weird.

Cristina: Why is that? What's there?

Jack: That isn't the craziest part. The Russian monastery has been in a continuous battle to reclaim the bestiary that was written by the Russians. And the Orthodox Christians confiscated it, claimed it as part of their history, placed it on top of the mountain. And the Russians themselves respect the top of the mountain, so they themselves do not go.

Cristina: Wait, but like, is there. They don't say like, about the people that did go on top of the mountain.

Jack: We know nothing about them.

Cristina: Okay. Did they sneak there? Did they dis.

Jack: We don't know anything about him.

Cristina: It's very strange.

Jack: Don't know anything about him. We just know that there is Russian bestiary being claimed by the Orthodox Christians and hidden atop the mountain, where every monastery believes it is too sacred to visit. This is your artifact. Go up there and get it.

Cristina: But you can't.

Jack: But you can't because it's too sacred to visit. What does that mean? Does that mean what?

Cristina: Interesting.

Jack: Gets weird, bro. Like, what is happening? Also, how do we go up and get to grass and trees instead of snow? Mount Athos is the second tallest place in all of Greece. And how do you have grass and trees, not snow?

Cristina: It's for the unicorns to eat.

Jack: Olympus is only slightly bigger and it is covered in snow on top.

Jack: So. And it's in the same country, which means the same altitude should, in theory, lead to the same conditions.

Cristina: I wanna know what's in that bestiary that's so weird. Why is that one? The one that's hidden?

Jack: Why is that? What's hidden? You got all these other artifacts, but you put one up there, the bestiary.

Cristina: They got more than just unicorns in that beastiary.

Jack: It has to be.

Jack: That's strange, right?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Okay, let's go to the other question you had. There are two women to have ever stepped foot on this mountain. In the late 1800s, a woman disguised herself as a man, went onto the mountain out of, who knows? Curiosity. I don't know. She. There's something. There was a. There was some reason important enough for her to disguise herself and go there. We don't know what, but they removed her. She was incarcerated at the foot of the mountain. They built a prison just for her. And she was there her whole life until she died. Just for faking being a man and going out to the mountain later. It was legislated. They legislated so that women are not allowed on the mountain. It is in the law.

Cristina: In the law.

Jack: It's in the law that women are not allowed in the mountain.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: That is in Greek law.

Cristina: Well, before she did that, it wasn't.

Jack: Also, this mountain counts as A sovereign state. So it is in Greece, but not.

Cristina: It's not part of Greece.

Jack: They can make their own rules.

Cristina: And the rule is no women.

Jack: No women.

Cristina: I wonder why.

Jack: That's the second woman ever to step foot on that mountain.

Cristina: Who was the first?

Jack: And what happened to her about 5,000 years ago?

Cristina: What?

Jack: Roughly. No, actually, about. No, no, that's wrong. It was about 2,000 years ago. Yeah. About 2,000 years ago, there was a woman on a boat headed to Cyprus, which is in Greece or part of Greece, or in some instances, part of Greece. In other instances, it's its own place, depending who you ask. She was headed there and the wind current pushed her away. And she landed on Athos without knowing what it was. But upon landing on Athos, this land was beautiful. This land was great. This woman proceeded to go to the highest point of the mountain. At the highest point of the mountain. She then prayed to her son to give her permission to claim the land.

Cristina: Pray to her son. What does this mean?

Jack: Two thousand years ago, about a year after the death of Jesus, Mary was on a boat headed towards Cyprus. The winds redirected her. She landed on Mount Athos, went to the top of the mountain, prayed to Christ that she can keep this land, and then we never hear of her again. This is in the Bible, in the Orthodox Christian book. This text is in there.

Cristina: Okay. She owns it, and yet they don't let women on it. That's very suspicious and odd.

Jack: Also, there is a green patch at the very top of this mountain.

Cristina: Yes. You think she lives there? You think she's still alive?

Jack: I don't know, man. It's just like the weirdest series.

Cristina: That is the weirdest.

Jack: According to the Orthodox Christians, these are the only two women to have ever stepped foot on this mountain.

Cristina: Yes. And we don't know anything about either of these women. It's just. That's it.

Jack: That's it. They refuse to give us more details relative to these things.

Cristina: She prayed for that mountain and then. I don't understand what. So weird. That's just so odd. I don't know what to do with that information.

Jack: Yep.

Cristina: How did she end up there and what happened after she prayed? That's her story.

Jack: I was curious about the same thing. Like, do we know? Did she make a house? Does she, like, live off the land? Like, what happened? Nothing.

Cristina: Nothing. And then they don't want women there. I wonder why. I wonder how that's connected.

Jack: She was there before all the guys were.

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: She was the first person to step foot on that mountain.

Cristina: What does that mean? I don't know. That's very strange.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: But no magic works on that mountain, right?

Jack: No magic works on that mountain.

Jack: Now, let us remember a very important detail about this mountain. The Atlanteans arrive on this mountain, how?

Cristina: The Pegasus. Right.

Jack: And a Pegasus is what?

Cristina: A flying horse.

Jack: So with a flying horse, you would obviously land where, to the top? Yes, because then you're going to come down, and if you land at the top, you're landing at the summit. The summit where the grass, the trees.

Cristina: Perfect for the horses.

Jack: Perfect for the horses. Where you've already seen other horses. Right. Where Mary also happened to go up to.

Cristina: Mm. What?

Jack: There's something about the. The mountain stops being interesting immediately. Because we were wrong about the mountain.

Cristina: It's the mountain top that's the most important thing.

Jack: It's the summit. Something about the summit of the mountain. Because we don't see, like, we can. I can get a pass and go onto that mountain right now. I am not allowed at the top of the mountain right now, but I can go to the mountain. I can get on the waiting list in six months. I could just go onto that mountain, check it out. Cool. They will arrest me if I try to go to the top.

Cristina: How did they stop each other from getting to the top?

Jack: Because they all adamantly believe that it is too sacred for them to go up to.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: They do not even surveil each other. They put the bestiary up there. That belongs to the Russians, and they themselves don't go and retrieve it. They're on the mountain, too. They could have just gone up and got in it. There's no security. There's no buildings. There's no nothing. You could just go up there. If you live on the mountain, maybe.

Cristina: That summit is more than just a regular summit, then, like. But you said there's no magic. But then how could they put a book there? It's very strange.

Jack: So I have theories on what the point of it is. Right. Assuming that the whole mountain functions equally, and the whole mountain, like the second story, is true. This. This is the burial site Athos. And if giants, when they die, the same effects that their bodies already have where magic doesn't work on them, and so his body then fed the mountain. The mountain magic no longer works on this mountain, and the whole mountain works equally. No magic works atop at the summit either. This would mean a couple of things. Right? If you put a magical artifact on this mountain, you've stripped it of its powers.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Now, this part on Top of the mountain is very different than everywhere else. Maybe that part on top of the mountain is the literal burial site. It is the only part with dirt and grass. It is the only part that isn't a bunch of rock.

Cristina: The burial site to the giant.

Jack: Yes. So giant would be buried at the very, very top, making it the strongest magic stream. So if you had something very dangerous and strong, magically speaking, you'd put it at the strongest dampening point, which could be the summit.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Alternatively, if the story says he's buried underneath. This is me. That was just me adding the sauce and saying maybe he would. Maybe that part is wrong. It is a burial site, but he was buried on top. The story says he's buried underneath the mountain. So the highest point would be the furthest from his body, thus the weakest from his effect, which means, potentially, we see the trees, we see the grass. It is the only green point. It might be the. It's just far enough from his body that it's the only part of the mountain where magic still happens. The only part of the mountain where magic can still work. If somebody who is connected to a being of pure magic were to go up there, they'd still have access to this being of pure magic, because that person could easily communicate or reach them, because magic still works. If the Holy Spirit or Jesus Christ or this vampire guy is really who she thinks he is and who everybody else thinks he is, and he can communicate and transcend, then this mountain would, in any case, dampen all those abilities. Except at this one point on top, this lady goes and prays and just, poof, vanishes. But it's because her son can take her from there.

Cristina: Okay. Okay.

Jack: But it's also where Atlanteans come down from. They have access to not just advanced technologies, but potentially magic. Are they even really flying there? Because that's what they say. That's what the stories say, that they have these horses, they land on top of the mountain, but nobody's allowed to the top of the mountain to see this event happen. They just know that the Atlanteans come down from there.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And they put two and two together and say, oh, they flew there and then came down from there. But again, we know a lady went up and disappeared and that people come down and go back up and then they're not up there.

Cristina: So what do you think?

Jack: Sounds like some sort of a portal. Oh, sounds like the top of the mountain crap just disappears and reappears. Also, people are allowed on the mountain, but they're not allowed at the summit. But unicorns have been seen on the mountain. Where the h*** would the unicorns be? Where they could survive? Where there's nature at the top of the mountain.

Cristina: Where you think they're teleporting too, when they get. When they running away. Okay. Oh, oh, okay, that makes sense.

Jack: The top of the mountain is some Garden of Eden equivalent. Let's think about the Garden of Eden. The Garden of Eden exists in some sort of alternate bubble dimension that only certain beings can access successfully, but is hidden in plain sight. The Garden of Eden is also interchangeable with where the Atlanteans live. We've many times come across the text in different, different mythologies that reference these two things interchangeably.

Cristina: Connection to Atlantis. Okay, but the church people can't like do anything with that anyway. Interesting. Also, they probably have magical tools up there that they're studying, like in non magical ways, because it takes away the magic from those tools. Yeah, but they're not going up there.

Jack: Yeah, they're not allowed.

Cristina: Exactly. But they have a lot of crap.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: And a lot of those crap could be magical.

Jack: But not on the mountain.

Cristina: But not on the mountain. Exactly. So that's a perfect studying location.

Jack: The top of the mountain.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: But only 20 people in the last thousand years have gone up there who can study it. And how are they gonna bring you back the data?

Jack: If anything, when these people go up there to do anything, they're not staying up there. They're going wherever that up there is taking them. The people who go to the top of the mountain. These 20 people over the course of thousand years who live in these monasteries and have gone up there, were entering some other place. They were going somewhere else. But only these people were specifically chosen and allowed to cross whatever threshold is at the summit that's allowing them to go to whatever place. The same place where Mary went. The same place that the Atlanteans are coming from. The same place that unicorns seem to be popping out of. All connected to this one place on top that has such a vast similarity to the Garden of Eden, which is also consistently referenced alongside the opposing grounded, more real texts of the Atlanteans.

Cristina: The Atlanteans? Yes. They're the children of Adam and Eve. Okay, yes, I'm remembering that weirdness.

Jack: Oh, and by chance, Mary happens to go up there.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Where she would come across the children of Adam and Eve.

Cristina: Yes. But that was accidentally total accident.

Jack: But also, if you are a Christian, everything happens for a reason.

Cristina: Okay. God.

Jack: The wind pushed her because it Was part of the plan. She went to the top because Christ wanted to see his mom again. Some reason she was there. For some reason, she went up there. For some reason. That's where unicorns are. For some reason. That's why the Atlanteans come from that same spot. For some reason, out of the 2,000 people that live on that mountain, nobody goes up there.

Cristina: What? Yes. I don't know what any of this means, though, because nothing can be proven. Because no one could go there. So it doesn't matter.

Jack: Nobody could go there. Nope. What now about this mountain? Only men are allowed. We know this. Visitors rarely, except in very specific circumstance where there have been emperors throughout history who have quit being emperors to go to this mountain on record. They just leave their kingdom. They abandon their kingdom and they go to be monks on this mountain.

Cristina: Where are they from?

Jack: All over the world. They just abandon their kingdom, their power, their money, their wealth, their ease of life, and they go be monks on this mountain.

Cristina: How do they even hear about it.

Jack: When asked why they stay there? The medicine grown from the fauna and the flora brings them health, intellect and wisdom. This is in documents. They've said these words. Almost all of them have. Now, let me point out what I have just said. Very importantly that you listen to this again, because unicorns, the flora and the fauna. See, it wasn't just the flora. It wasn't just. I picked up a plant.

Cristina: No. Magical animals.

Jack: Magical animals. Medicine from some creature is making you more intelligent, healthier and wiser.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: More so than any power you have acquired, than any building you have, than any money you have, than all the women that would throw themselves at you. Then you run entire countries and you're like, no, you guys can have it. I'm gonna go over there.

Cristina: How common are the unicorns up there? What? Or anything else that's up there. Like maybe all animals.

Jack: Not one of these emperors has ever gone to the summit.

Cristina: But you have to get to the summit to get some unicorn. Alcor. Whatever.

Jack: Alicorn.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Not one of them has ever been up there. Let me go on to point out the next weirdest part of this fact. Nobody. Not one. Not one of the texts from any of these monasteries on this mountain so much as hint to the existence of a unicorn. Every bit has been from people who left it, Nothing from the people who stayed.

Cristina: They have Fight Club rules.

Jack: Not even amongst each other. Do they talk about it.

Cristina: No.

Jack: Fight Club couldn't even keep that going.

Cristina: Oh, no. Huh?

Jack: But again, they literally don't even go to the Top. So they must really. I mean, it's monk's discipline is their thing.

Cristina: Yeah. Like they're not even going up there to get that book.

Jack: Nope. And it's. They swear it's theirs.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And they argue with it and they try to get the individual who is allowed up there to go get it. Go get it belongs to us.

Cristina: But they're not gonna do that.

Jack: You go get it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: No. It's either too dangerous or actually sacred in some manner, shape or form that we don't understand.

Cristina: If it is sacred in some weird way, like maybe it was an accident that that book even showed up there. Like, they probably didn't purposely put it there. But now that it's there, they can't get it back.

Jack: Whoever goes up there can bring it back if they wanted to.

Cristina: But no one does go up there.

Jack: In the Last thousand years, 20 individuals have gone up there. And this book has been updated all the time.

Jack: They have all been Christian. Every single one who's gone up there is part of the Orthodox Christians. It was not the Russians. It was not the Bulgarians. It was not the Serbians. It was a hundred percent each time one of the Orthodox Christians who was allowed to the top. It was only one at a time. And throughout the course of a thousand years, there's only been 20 people who've been allowed up there. I don't know what merits or like, what why. I do not know why them?

Cristina: Are they bringing down some unicorn horns? That's a good question too. I don't know. Because there. There's something magical that's keeping them healthy and everything.

Jack: One important. I forgot to mention this very important detail that I just looked at this text and saw. Very, very important. I don't know why I forgot this part. This is probably one of the most important details about this. After Virgin Mary landed on the mountain island, because it's kind of an island and kind of a mountain. And she went to the summit. She got to the summit on a horse.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Very, very important because there are no natural horses on this mountain. According to the Orthodox Christians that run the mountain, there's no horses. There's no horses. There's cows. Well, bulls. But there's no horse. There wouldn't. It's a mountain. How the h*** would a horse survive? How do you go up the mountain on a horse? That's mainly rock. It's a rocky a** mountain.

Cristina: But everyone says there's unicorns up there.

Jack: Only people who've left and come down with it. Nobody on the mountain. Says anything about this. Okay, Every record that exists about unicorns on this mountain exists outside the mountain. There are records kept on the mountain and there is not one mention.

Cristina: How did you get this horse?

Jack: Where did the horse come from? You landed here by accident on a boat. You didn't have the horse with you. And it's a mountain. Dude, you don't even understand. Give me a second so I can show you a visual. Okay, so this is what that mountain looks like. This is a rocky f****** mountain.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: You're either at the base of the mountain, and that's the only place you see trees and stuff. That's where the farmers are. That's where they're growing the things, the crops and whatever. And then you see how the mountain goes up and just the trees just cease. The nature just ceases. And then you get to the very, very tip and we're back to trees and back to nature. Now look at the steepness of this mountain. She rode a horse to the top.

Cristina: It doesn't make sense.

Jack: No, no, it doesn't. She rode a horse up a vertical.

Cristina: Unless vertical.

Jack: She rode a horse that can travel vertically.

Cristina: Which one was that? Which horse does that? I can't remember.

Jack: The unicorn.

Cristina: The unicorn, okay. Yes, yes.

Jack: The unicorn travels vertically. It could just run up nothing. She could literally ride it in a straight shot without having to take a single turn to the very top of the mountain. So, yeah, she rode a horse. That's part of that story. She rode a horse to the top of the mountain. You were on a boat. You didn't have a horse.

Cristina: If she had a unicorn, where would she get that from? Or maybe she just found the horse.

Jack: That could ride up the side of the mountain.

Jack: They didn't say unicorn. They do not say unicorn. They specifically don't say unicorn. It's just a horse, according to them. But also, you saw this f****** mountain.

Cristina: It was definitely a unicorn.

Jack: How else are you gonna get to the top of the mountain? The mountain just stops and becomes vertical. How are you gonna get to the top of the mountain on a horse?

Cristina: Unicorn, man. It has to be a unicorn.

Jack: It fits the narrative According to the descriptions of a horse that could run vertically.

Cristina: That's crazy. She has the unicorn and then she disappears into Atlantis. That's so weird.

Jack: Okay, I mean, looking at these details, I did come across John the Russian one more time. I didn't find additional information of any sort. He still talked about the same place, Getting it from the same thing. Just very. But there was one thing that didn't Seem important at the time that I didn't mention, because it's okay, it's in the mountain was my idea. But he specifically said that it came from the summit of the mountain.

Cristina: Oh, it didn't just come from the mountain.

Jack: Not just the mountain. He specifically said he got it from the summit of Mount Athos. Now, I didn't think that mattered in seeing it. I was like, oh, yeah, he did say that. I went ahead and I extract, you know, compressing information to make it through the episode. I just. Hey, was at the mountain. It didn't seem relevant to specify which part of the mountain. He just got it from the mountain, bro.

Cristina: Unless you know where exactly.

Jack: Okay, yes, he got it specifically his own words from the very top of the mountain.

Cristina: Okay. So there's definitely unicorns on top of that mountain. Something on top of that mountain, and probably Pegasus too. It's pretty cool.

Jack: Important that I say, John, because also the two records, the public records in the Greek records are also claiming it was from the summit.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Now this creates an interesting problem because that means that in the last 300 years, at least three people who weren't supposed to be on the mountain went to the summit. Or somebody handed it to them. Somehow, some. Somehow they got something that was from the top.

Cristina: Even though no one's allowed up there.

Jack: Even though no one's allowed up there. Did they sneak up there? Did somebody bring it down from up there? The people who live on the mountain aren't allowed up there, but they do say that people do come down from up there. Now, nobody lives up there. There's nobody up there. So the people who go up there, they believe land up there and then come down or that is what they tell us.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: That they land up there on their Pegasus and then they come down. That could totally be the case.

Cristina: If that's not.

Jack: Then they're just popping up there and coming down.

Cristina: Oh, okay. But he's not popping up there.

Jack: We don't know. We just know that they got it from the summit.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: That's it. We know three individuals got alicorn from the summit. That's it. That's the extent of our knowledge in this area.

Cristina: Okay. We don't know how it just happened.

Jack: Yep. So that's what I got. That's what I found about this mountain.

Cristina: This magical, non magical mountain. That is crazy.

Jack: I mean, I don't know. I don't know. We know there's a bunch of artifacts. We don't know if they're still magic. We don't Know if the summit is magic or isn't magic or is the.

Cristina: Only place so much secrets. It's just a secretive. Secretive.

Jack: It's a secret mountain.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: With a bunch of fuzzy details that have been snuck out. And we have to connect it with the details that have been speculated and the crap that they decide to tell us.

Cristina: That's amazing.

Jack: Mount Athos is also, because of this Virgin Mary story, the most sacred location for orthodox Christians.

Cristina: Of course. What? Interesting. It's very interesting and weird. And what? Is she still there? What is she doing? Like what?

Jack: And he has hard, hard Garden of Eden vibes.

Cristina: Yes. It's definitely connected somehow. Yeah.

Jack: Somehow. Arguably. Maybe the same way that whatever's happening in the Bermuda Triangle connects to it. Maybe this is the same kind of idea that the Bermuda Triangle. We know what. There's nothing there. But there's also something there.

Cristina: There's something protecting something.

Jack: Yeah. And things can go and you'll see nothing. But you cross some threshold and pop up somewhere. That sounds literally like what they're describing about this mountain.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Which would say maybe the Garden of Eden has many entryways.

Cristina: That makes sense.

Jack: All being protected one way or another.

Cristina: That is interesting. I wonder if there's any crazy airplane stories around this mountain.

Jack: Interesting. Like. There are. Because there's has to be curiosity. Right. People just like, let me see.

Cristina: Wow. Okay.

Jack: So that's the story of Mount Athos. That's what I could find it. Very vague. It seems like the deeper I dig, the more vague and indirect the information becomes.

Cristina: But there's something there.

Jack: Something there for sure.

Cristina: Just. It was so little, but it's still something somehow. The secret is still. It's not well kept. No, it's really well kept, actually. Yes. But isn't it still there?

Jack: It's still there. We know there's something there.

Cristina: Something slipped.

Jack: We don't know what the h*** is there.

Cristina: Nope.

Jack: According to anybody who manages to go up and come down. Unicorns. That's all they got to say. Unicorns they don't talk about. Oh, the Atlanteans are up there. No, the people on the mountain told us that story. People outside the mountain speculate about it, but people on the mountain tells us those stories. That's what they want us to think. That's what they want us to know. Those are details they're feeding us.

Cristina: Why would they want feed us that. That's so strange. It's all strange.

Jack: They're also okay with us knowing about Virgin Mary being on there. That's totally cool with them.

Cristina: But not. Yes, that is very weird. What?

Jack: Okay, anywho, for the past God knows how long we've been talking about this. So if you guys are interested in any of this, you guys know where to find it. We're everywhere but you. If. Please look. Greeks and non Greeks, historians, anybody who's ever visited this mountain and somehow comes across this show, like, reach out. Talk to us. Tell us if you know, detail. If you've never visited and you know something we don't, you know, reach out. You can find us on all the socials, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, usConvopod.

Cristina: Remember to subscribe, right.

Jack: And review the show and tell anybody and everybody. Maybe somebody knows something we don't and they could completely.

Cristina: We need to know. This has been the Rambling podcast and take nothing personal. Thanks for listening. Bye. Like, smiling at you all tied up or something.

Jack: Not just smiling, but, like, with mad, hopeful eyes.

Cristina: Like, if I wish I were you.

Jack: Yeah, yeah. Like, through their face you can see that they're, like, trying to gauge your reaction about what you're listening to and you're horrified.

Cristina: So what are they thinking? Like, oh, this episode must be really good.

Jack: Well, I don't know, because they're over here just super souped looking, trying to see if your expression gives off anything so they can get excited. When you get excited about, oh, my God, is that exciting? That's all they're thinking. Like, wow, if they get souped about anything, I can only imagine what it is.

Cristina: Whoa. Our fans are too extreme.

Jack: Extremeness.

Cristina: Good morning. Good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by great dots.info art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McCallister with social media managed by Amber Black.

January 28, 2023

Rambling 211: Unicorns

January 28, 2023/ GreyThoughts.Info

Are unicorns real? Where do they come from? Can they help us figure out the Santa Clause Problem? The duo unpack Unicorns, their origins, what the truth about them might be and whether or not it would be useful to find one in order to use it to catch santa.

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed:

Unicorns
Indus Valley Civilization
Bestiaries
Powers
Greek Civilization
Middle Ages Europe
The Evidence
Magic Horn
Unicorn Powder Merchant
Adrenochrome

Our Links:

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

Instagram -https://instagram.com/justconvopod

+Transcript

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Ramblin Podcast. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: I'm. I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And this is the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas, which we Every week.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And last week we were talking about giving ideas power. When we give ideas too much power and when we extract. Extract power from ideas as well. Collapsing entire things. Religions and governments and currencies. All things that are powered on sort of the energy, the power, the true magic of imagination. Imagination.

Cristina: Imagination.

Jack: A little rainbow. SpongeBob. Who does that? Right? Imagination. And so a little rainbow shows over my head. I'm gonna put the effects. Nobody can see it but you. But it's gonna be great. I'm gonna do it in post. There's not even video. You're the only one who's gonna see it.

Cristina: Me?

Jack: Yeah, you're gonna see. I don't even know where you're gonna see it because it would require some sort of playback of the. I'll get an artist to draw this moment with the rainbow so everyone can see it. So everyone can see it. Yeah, now everybody could see it. The medium that is accessible to the public.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Anyways, I would. What the h*** was I even saying?

Cristina: That we use too much power to monopoly money.

Jack: Yeah, we do give power to monopoly money. It's crazy, because the power of imagination, man. It's crazy. We do. We. We give these ideas power, and it is absurd that we do that, but sometimes we think that things don't have power and that they are ideas and they are the other way around.

Cristina: What do you mean?

Jack: So in opposite of giving ideas power, sometimes there are things that we just think aren't even things. They're just ideas. We're like, no, that's. That's just imaginary. And this happens pretty often. A real common occurrence in which this happens is aliens. A lot of people just think aliens don't exist.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: They just objectively are like, no, that can't happen. Especially like most people who believe in religions.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like the universe was made for us.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And so a lot of people do believe that there is no such thing as aliens. That's an imaginary idea to them. And that's. That's great. Whatever. But there's aliens.

Cristina: But there's aliens.

Jack: But there's aliens. We have many of them. So it's not that it's an imaginary idea, but this happens a lot, including things that we ourselves haven't really considered now, we've briefly glossed over, but we've never really deep doven into the mechanics of a unicorn.

Cristina: What?

Jack: Yeah, because there's a couple of ideas here, and I'm gonna show you where I began and where I ended with this thought. And it got really confusing and a bit scary at times.

Cristina: Because of the unicorn.

Jack: Because of the unicorn. And I became fascinated by the unicorn because. I don't know, it's an interesting, majestic creature that poses as something simple, is elusive the way like Bigfoot is.

Cristina: Yes. And are you saying people don't.

Jack: But people don't believe in the unicorn.

Cristina: But you're saying it's a thing?

Jack: Unicorn might be a thing.

Cristina: Why?

Jack: Well, the unicorn is. Well, before I even get to why it might be a thing, the idea behind this is that the unicorn itself possesses a certain kind of power and ability that it's. You know, it's like Bigfoot. It does disappear. It vanishes. It's elusive. We can't find it. People think that that's just a part of imagination. Because of that, there's no proof. The proof is gone. It ceases to exist. And I found that interesting that we do have this thing like Bigfoot that is there.

Cristina: Like, that's not a thing like Bigfoot, is it? I mean, maybe once upon a time. I don't even know.

Jack: I'm saying that it's elusive the way Bigfoot is.

Cristina: Like. Have there been stories of people seeing unicorns, though? Yes, but not recently.

Jack: Neither have there been stories of Bigfoot recently or aliens recently.

Cristina: I feel like more recent than unicorns, though.

Jack: I think unicorns right before Bigfoot.

Cristina: Really?

Jack: Yes, I think unicorn. I think bigfoot dominated the 20th century, like 1900s to the 2000s, but the unicorns was, like the 1800s. Maybe. Maybe a little earlier. Yeah, I don't think it was, like, way back. It was back there, but it lasted big, big, big. Still around this time, like, it ended towards the 18, you know, where they were seeing unicorns. I'm not sure where they were seeing unicorns per se, but I can give you some generalizations of to where unicorns were seen. But my interest in the unicorn came in that we've glossed over the unicorn before and haven't really been able to establish what it was. We. We joked about it being perhaps a horse.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: On adrenochrome. Because everything is on adrenochrome, and that just seems pretty obvious. Sometimes it's a small change, sometimes it's a big change.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like, Steve still looks like a plain groundhog. Like, sometimes he's just got powers. Or sometimes you go from being a wolf and become some crazy Wetchards looking thing, you know, Werewolf.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like drastically different things. So, yeah, it ranges. So I'm thinking it's that.

Cristina: That's what you think a unicorn is.

Jack: Yeah, I'm thinking the unicorn is that to begin with. Right.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: That's where my thought begins. I'm like, yeah. But then. Then I go through some stories which I'll tell you all about.

Cristina: How many involve blood?

Jack: Potentially one, but that's the one that matters.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And I don't actually, the potential is the best part here, because I don't think it is blood. And I think this is why we need to catch a unicorn.

Cristina: Of course. Okay.

Jack: Because I pose forward that the unicorn is using fear the way that Santa Claus is, but on an individual scale.

Cristina: What do you mean?

Jack: I am confident of it, but let's go down the rabbit hole.

Cristina: Okay. Honestly, I thought you were gonna say that it's. You think it's an alien?

Jack: I think it's an alien.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: I think it's some sort of Something figured it out. Something figured it out. I don't know what exactly it is. I just know it has powers. I guess the next step would be to find out if it is what we think. If it's doing what we think it's doing, then what is it?

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: That would be the next step.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Because it hasn't figured out how to do this on a scale like Santa Claus. But I'll show you as we move forward. So let's break apart the basic things we know about a unicorn. Right. A unicorn is usually thought of with a single long horn.

Cristina: Horn. Yeah. And it looks like a horse. And. Looks like a horse, I guess, too.

Jack: It's usually white.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And it's very, very absorbently white.

Cristina: Is that important?

Jack: Well, no, that's how we picture it.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And it's also, again, like I said before, highly elusive, really difficult to see, and they say it's magical.

Cristina: I don't understand. Are there stories that prove that it's magical besides, like, it's elusive? Because that's the same thing with Bigfoot. Like, it's magical because I don't. I don't get it. Like, the whole. It's hard to find proof of equals. It's got to be magical. Like, I don't. I don't see the connection there, but yeah.

Jack: Because what has the unicorn done? Right.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: What has the unicorn done? That's magical.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: For anybody to say it's magical.

Cristina: Exactly like the Bigfoot. What has it done?

Jack: Exactly. What has. It's just elusive.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: They're saying. Well, they're chalking that off. The magic immediately.

Cristina: Yes, that's what it feels like. But is there anything else to it?

Jack: It's like disappearing, right? Oh, it disappeared. It must be magic.

Cristina: Yes. Not that it knows everything around itself and is familiar and where's the best hiding spots and whatever, but. Okay.

Jack: Is there any other detail we know about a unicorn? Is that all of it?

Cristina: That's all I know. That's all I know. I don't think there's anything strange about it.

Jack: Nothing strange.

Cristina: I don't think it's bigger than any horse or smaller than any horse or like, there's nothing special. If you think of Harry Potter, it has silvery blood, but I think that's just a Harry Potter thing.

Jack: Interesting. I like that. That's cool.

Cristina: But that's not real. Is there any stories like that that would be interesting if there are stories like that and Harry Potter was just basing it off of.

Jack: You think Harry Potter would have the intelligence to go do some research on some crap? Well, I think the wonder there was that it was generated from somebody's mind as opposed to like. A lot of that was original. I'm sure it took inspiration from research that was done, but a lot of that was just in, like, original stuff. Although I am not the biggest fan of the entire. Of the Harry Potter world, I do value the level, the quality at which it was crafted. It is impressive. Yes. It's incredibly deep. Harry Potter is its work of genius. I'm just. It's not my thing. I don't like fantasy.

Cristina: You're a hater.

Jack: Yeah, I'm essentially a hater because I don't like fantasy, but I understand the value of it. You go through it. It is some. It is complicated and deep. But as for the unicorn, which Harry Potter has probably one of my favorite iterations of the unicorn. It was like a goth unicorn. The weird dark situation it was involved in because it was still mystical and, like, hidden. Right. It was just Voldemort hunted one down and just drank its blood.

Cristina: We had to keep doing. He has to keep doing that.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: He survives off of the unicorn blood.

Jack: That's crazy, right? The edge of life.

Cristina: Well, very adrenochromey type.

Jack: It is, right? It totally is, bro. He was on adrenochrome. Get the h*** out of here. It was Adrenochrome 100. You can't tell me anything else. He was a wizard on adrenochrome.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: That's how he became that freaking nature.

Cristina: He changed and everything. Exactly.

Jack: He changed his nose and everything. His face altered. He warped. The way something on adrenochrome would.

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: So early mentions of the unicorn because, you know, we gotta follow its trail, see where we could find one if it's so elusive. And boy, is it elusive. Aliens, way less elusive. Almost every civilization has some mention of aliens. Usually in the same manner. Saucers and like flying things and things coming from the sky. The same crap over and over and over.

Cristina: It's all UFOs. Yeah, that's the most common.

Jack: Always a hundred percent of it. But not in this case.

Cristina: What do you mean?

Jack: There are so few mentions of the unicorn it is absurd.

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: Like Jesus, kind of. It's like you got the Bible and then that's it.

Cristina: Yeah. So.

Jack: Well, and see, he's mentioned in the Quran. That's a lie. So he's mentioned the Bible in the Quran. It's like, okay, this is like, way less probable. There's nothing proving this thing is out.

Cristina: Here, the unicorn or Jesus either.

Jack: But there is the. In this valley civilization. Right. This is about 3,000 years before Christ. And they had mentioned in their scripture and in their writing a unicorn. And they mentioned it as a single centered curved horn that went forward and then up at the end. So it wiggled its way, which I've seen iterations of, and I didn't know where that came from. I've seen three different ones. It's the pointy spike, the spirally one, then the wiggly one. Seen all three. And I never really realized I was seeing all three until somebody made a distinction.

Cristina: Were you seeing them on different animals or you were seeing them?

Jack: No, all of them on unicorns, but different iterations of unicorns.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And so I thought that was interesting that that distinction was made. And then I remembered, yes, I've seen spiral horns and whatever in different, like, pictures and, you know, shows or movies or paintings or whatever. Except their description of this creature was that it was cow shaped.

Cristina: Cow shaped?

Jack: It was cow shaped.

Cristina: So it was a big boy.

Jack: And it was thought of as a symbol of power. They thought it was a powerful thing because of its size.

Cristina: I guess it's still a unicorn.

Jack: Nah, still a unicorn.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: What's interesting about this is they. Although not many places mentioned that they mentioned it often.

Cristina: They mentioned it, mentioned it often to.

Jack: The point that they would put this creature like it was part of their Normal ecosystem. They would place it on their crests, they would put it on there. It was like their, you know, their national creature, the unicorn.

Cristina: It could be just a mascot, have to be real things.

Jack: Yeah, but it was like the people's mascot essentially.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And they, they, you know, they wrote about it all the time, but could be, you know, like that episode of Star Trek. Their entire world revolved around the idea of a dragon. And they just talked about the dragon consistently like, okay, yeah, it makes sense.

Cristina: But there's no dragon.

Jack: Well, there's no dragon. Yeah, it doesn't need to be a dragon. This is a story. But they based off on story. So I'm thinking the unicorn could be that case in this situation that they kind of based so much of their society on the unicorn.

Cristina: Did they have cows though? Like. Yeah, it's described as a cow, but.

Jack: No, they didn't describe it as a cow. They said it was shaped like a cow. But they were fully aware of what a cow was.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And they were fully aware of what a horse was.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: This is like a cow shaped cow shaped thing with one single horn. Now what's interesting here is in trying to debunk this, my assumption would be the only cow shaped horned creature would be a rhinoceros. Seems powerful. It's bulky, it's a big boy and it's muscular. It looks like a tank and it's thick skinned. So if they're talking about something that's a symbol for power, I couldn't think of something that I think of more powerful.

Cristina: Where was this place at? Do you know?

Jack: I have no idea where this location.

Cristina: Is because yeah, rhino makes sense.

Jack: Rhinoceros does make sense.

Cristina: All right. I just looked it up. It says that it's in the northwestern regions of South Asia, which is Pakistan and northwest India and eastern Pakistan. I don't know if that's helpful. Here's a picture of a map of it.

Jack: But none of that's the Middle East.

Cristina: Yeah, none of it looks familiar. Yeah, I guess that's Asia. That's the Middle East. Right. Does that make sense?

Jack: No, the Middle east is in Asia. So that's just a corner of is there further away map, a further way map?

Cristina: This is like the only map I find and then it just shows.

Jack: Okay, so then, yeah, it's basically in the Middle East. If it's around Pakistan and India and that kind of region. So that's where the Indus Valley civilization was. And they, they thought of it as.

Cristina: A cow with a horn, there's gotta be rhinos there? No, I don't know.

Jack: There aren't any rhinos there. That's what's weird.

Cristina: If we look at where rhinos are.

Jack: Found, I'm sure it's gonna tell us. Africa.

Cristina: You think that's the only place in the world that has rhinos?

Jack: I. Yes, is my bet. I'm like, 95% positive.

Cristina: Okay. Like, two of them, the species are in Africa, and three are in south and Southeast Asia.

Jack: Holy crap.

Jack: So there are rhinos over there?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So at least close to there. Close enough because that's the Middle East. It's not the Southeast. Yeah, but it's close.

Cristina: So, yeah. It would have been probably rarely seen, but that's why it was so popular, because they never see it.

Jack: Door somewhere that they've never been to had a creature that had a horn and was big and bulky and elusive because they never seen it.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And the civilization was perhaps, probably based on the stories of one group who thought that it was common just over the hill. And they were like, what interesting creature? This? That's just over our hill. He's our creature too. We're all the same people. And he's just over the hill, and we've never seen him. He's that elusive.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Hangs out with only the people that are elusive like him over there now.

Cristina: So maybe nothing magical about that.

Jack: Maybe nothing magical about that. And that. That might hold some water to some degree. Except when you consider some of the greatest record keepers of the world, which are two. The Jews are amazing record keepers. They are some of the originators of record keepers. And the Greeks are the other really good record keepers. After they finally began record keeping, obviously, because a lot of the crap that they had was just hearsay. You know, I got a story. I told you the story. You told him the story. They told them the story. And it's like we got a million versions of the same story. Which version do we write down?

Cristina: And are these about unicorns, though?

Jack: Well, they don't actually have. This is what's interesting about the Greeks particularly. They don't have a single mention of a unicorn in their mythology, what I would expect.

Cristina: Oh, yeah.

Jack: This is where it gets really incredibly weird. The only place that they have unicorns mentioned are in their natural history books. And in their history books. So the natural history books, historians record them, and in just, like, biographies and stuff, people reporting to have seen unicorns.

Cristina: So there are mentions of it.

Jack: There are mentions only of unicorns in real world instances. There are no mythological unicorns in Weird.

Cristina: Yes, weird. They thought of unicorns as actual creatures, not magical creatures.

Jack: Yes, but this. It's not even the magical creatures. They thought of it as a real creature that existed somewhere. Yeah, with them.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Screw the magic. They. They just casually thought this was an everyday thing. Yes, but this is the second civilization that we've come across now. The only people who mention them. Mention them as what? As always present.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Second time. These people straight up just had them in history books.

Cristina: But they look like horses, though.

Jack: Well, they believed that they were about that. Like the first. The horn in the middle, it was freaking huge. It was 28 inches.

Cristina: What?

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: How is it holding that? It's not heavy.

Jack: It could be like bird. Bird bone type. Now known as very jumpy and skittish. That's also why it's elusive, because the moment it sees you, it disappears somewhere. Just runs or magically vanishes or whatever people want to say happened as a result. It's also very agile.

Cristina: This creature sounds cool, but.

Jack: Okay, well, here's the coolest part. Usually it's described as white, but there are also mentions of it being red and black.

Cristina: That does look awesome. Oh, my gosh. I want a red speeding, thin horn creature.

Jack: But it is a horse.

Cristina: It is a horse for sure.

Jack: Yes. It's a magical.

Cristina: For some reason, I was hoping they were foxes, I guess.

Jack: Not magical. They thought of it as a variant of a horse.

Cristina: Of a horse.

Jack: Now here's where it gets tricky. They thought that these things existed in India, and only the historians, good record keepers that went to India, came back saying that these were there, that these were there. Now they know what horses are, and they said it's a horse. But there are rhinoceroses in India, apparently.

Cristina: But that doesn't describe the creatures they described.

Jack: They think it's an. It's a horse. Yeah, the Greeks.

Cristina: But they didn't describe it as a bulky horse, did they?

Jack: No, they did not. It was just. It was definitely just an elegant horse with a horn.

Cristina: That's weird.

Jack: Yes. And they. They knew what a horse was.

Cristina: Was it a camel?

Jack: A camel. Interesting. That's some middle ground.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Between a horse and a cow, if you want, like a bulkier horse.

Cristina: Skittish, you said?

Jack: No, skittish. Gnome. Camels are like paste.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: The opposite of skittish.

Cristina: Okay, describe this creature again.

Jack: Okay. A single 28 inch horn in the center. Jumpy and skittish. Yeah, that's why it's also very elusive. It's agile for the same reason. And it has red, black or white fur. And it is a horse.

Cristina: It's gotta be some type of deer. Were they familiar with deers, though? Okay, if we thought of it, not like a deer from here, but like those other creatures that look very similar.

Jack: To deer or something like that.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Oh. I mean, a gazelle has two horns, but I know what you're thinking about those other ones.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: That one of them, I think, does in fact have a single horn. The problem is they're talking horse. The creature that I think you're picturing is significantly smaller, like tiny. It's like baby deer size.

Cristina: Then maybe they were decorating their horses.

Jack: Okay, interesting. Different angle. We know that. Even in which is. No, it couldn't be, because they would know, because Greek themselves used to strap things to their horses.

Cristina: That's true.

Jack: So they would know. They would know if it's. They know what a horse looks like.

Cristina: I don't understand. Because, like, if we look at the history, though, of the record of the actual place that they were visiting, what was it? India.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Do they have any unicorn stories?

Jack: The Indians?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Well, no, that. Not that. Well, we do know that dimensions from the Indus Valley civilization is in the Middle east and India's in the Middle East.

Cristina: But does India itself has any stories?

Jack: I don't.

Cristina: This is so natural. Why wouldn't they have the most stories if everyone's pointing there and saying they have unicorns? Wouldn't they have unicorn stories?

Jack: Well, okay, yes. This is what's weird about that. Right. Because of all the locations that do mention unicorns and everybody seems to see it around India, but no, India doesn't have any sort of consistent anything with unicorns. No mention of the unicorn everybody else is seeing there.

Cristina: So they have to have something there that people aren't familiar with. I feel like that's gotta be the solution. Like they've got animals that people just aren't familiar with and they're describing in very strange ways the unicorn.

Jack: They're describing it as a unicorn over. Yeah, it's always the same. Or maybe they're not using the word unicorn, but the description is what we all call the unicorn. Yeah, but that's the thing. We're. Now we're talking that these people are all speaking different languages.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: We're using the word unicorn. We're saying this very same description is what they're all saying they're seeing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And if it fits, you know, more than half of it, let's say. Okay, we're. They're talking about what we would call a unicorn.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And that's how we're defining this ultimately.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Because they're all coming back and saying, there's a one horned white thing over there that's just there and it's weird and impossible to catch and see. It's just there and then it's not there.

Cristina: Then it's not.

Jack: They're all mentioning the same thing.

Cristina: Interesting.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Now it has to be a real thing, not a real thing, but it's not. It's not a unicorn.

Jack: Well, for a brief period in the Middle Ages in Europe, popping up here and there, you know, sometimes in Spain, sometimes in England, sometimes in France, sometimes in Germany. Germany, you know, it would pop up everywhere. There would be depictions in bestiaries where they show animals of different sorts from regions, you know, real and mythological, sometimes mixed together. And they would show the unicorn. Many of them.

Cristina: Were they all visiting India?

Jack: Well, I'm not entirely sure, but I think they were used actually. I have no idea where. I just know they were showing animals that they have seen or recorded or heard of. Just beast series to gather information. And they were depicted in many beast series throughout all of Europe. Consistently. It wasn't one guy's thing. It was like all over the place. Anybody who had one, for whatever reason, seemed to have a unicorn in there.

Cristina: Weird.

Jack: Weird.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And here, though, split down the middle, it was thought of about as much of a goat as it was a horse.

Cristina: I don't understand. So sometimes it was depicted as a goat with a horn and sometimes it.

Jack: Was a horse with a horn. But sometimes it was the middle ground of whatever that would look like with a horn.

Cristina: Middle of a goat and a horse.

Jack: What?

Cristina: What does that mean? What?

Jack: But we start to get into where I immediately went. Huh? I tried to confirm this and you can find a crap ton of these online, really old ones. And you can see the pages and their descriptions and translations to English from what's being said. And without fail, 100% of the time from completely different books from across all of Europe, mentioned in different contexts, but landing at the same idea. Virgins can easily tame the unicorn. Now, I understand fully somebody heard about it, told somebody. But for the first couple of books that seem to have all been begun around the same period of time, there was no way that they simultaneously thought of the same thing at the same time, because it must have been like a five year gap and we're talking the Middle Ages. So it's like, whoa, dude. How?

Cristina: What? That they're all saying virgins contain.

Jack: Yes, they're all talking about unicorns and they're all saying. So they all talked to somebody who mentioned the unicorn in the same exact description and managed to publish a book that also had the same information about a virgin. They all spoke to the same guy.

Cristina: That happened to be a version. I don't know.

Jack: Unless there's a school for people who make bestiaries, and then they get taught the basics. And unicorn happens to be one of the basics.

Cristina: Yeah. He's like. Then that means, like, they all were experimenting, and we're like, okay, let's bring it. Like, how do they end up with the version? How many people did they test out? Like, okay, let's try to get that person to train the unicorn. What is it? Not train it, to tame it. Tame it. Yeah. And no one could do it except for this virgin horse trainer.

Jack: Weird, right? And no, it's not even a tamer. It's just because they're a virgin for whatever reason. Specifically female. A female version, for whatever reason. The unicorn is just submissive.

Cristina: It makes no sense, though.

Jack: Makes no sense. The other mention that I found that fits this same exact description is actually for dragons from the same Europeans in the Middle Ages, mainly from England, which mentioned virgins. Virgins can steal the treasure that a dragon is guarding because the dragon will. I guess it's not stealing. The dragon will just move out of its way. It's. It's collected for the virgin who will one day come and take it.

Cristina: Okay, are these people just fantasizing about versions and how amazing version being a version is?

Jack: I don't know. Because where I went. Again, is that although versions conceal the gold, they always just remained with the dragon.

Cristina: What? That's how those stories end.

Jack: Well, taming the unicorn means what, now? You're always with the unicorn? That's your ride or something? So now they've got proximity to a virgin in both instances. And in both instances, hard to reach and quite majestic. Overpowered. Some things.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: That are keeping a virgin nearby.

Cristina: For what?

Jack: Okay, now, if we look at how gods use virgins, right? Sacrifice for blood. Pure blood. The most fear, the most innocent.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Oh, yes. All the blood and fear I need in one strong dose.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Jehovah's old solution to the problem, as you know.

Cristina: Yes, yes. But why do they. These creatures need it?

Jack: They're not eating these versions, doing anything to these versions. Is this an emergency in case some s*** goes down? They would then, you know, keep the battery around in case I'm running out of electricity, and then, you know, take the battery when I need it. Is that the case is it a. As long as they're around me and they think I'm protecting them, they're gonna fear for themselves, but they're gonna fear for me. And they'll always be to the edge. I always make sure they get to the edge of fear. So I keep the battery close and keep her scared. So somebody's going to hurt her. Yeah, or I'm going to hurt her or something. With the unicorn, you're always in danger, but if you trust me, you'll always be safe. But you're always going to be that close to danger, but you're never going to be hurt, so you're always going to be scared. That adrenaline rush, the good fear.

Cristina: So makes no sense how the version is the key. Is it a woman version for the dragons as well?

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. And also, here's what's weird about this. In both instances, if you're. If you adjust to anything, you're no longer gonna be scared of it because it's your normal. Once something's your norm, it's not. That's the juggle that gods are making with fear. You have to keep it fresh. If it's not fresh, it's not entertaining. We get bored easy. You can't scare us with the same s***. You have to crash the towers, but you also have to threaten us with the bombs. You can't. Not just. You can't just keep hitting towers. We'll be like, it's normal for towers to get hit.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: You know, like, you can't do the same trick over and over and over and over. We'll get bored. Right now, people in Ukraine are like, whatever, dude. They're now beating Russia because they got over the fact that Russians had more power. Now they got so bored, they just walked into the streets and started disarming people. And they're winning. Like, just got bored and stopped being scared. Now. Now what are you going to do? You. You killed the fear in them. Now you're screwed. You can't win. They're not scared anymore.

Cristina: So what do these guys do with these versions?

Jack: I mean, what are they doing? I have no idea. I never found the solution for that. Why are. Well, at least in these stories, I didn't find a solution. I don't know why. I don't know what the point is. It didn't. There wasn't any further explanation. And I tried to find it. It was nothing. It's like you guys just all talked about the same crap in the same way, and it didn't make like you didn't link back to anything. Was this an idea you all had? There's a fascination with virgins.

Cristina: Yeah, for sure.

Jack: I guess always.

Cristina: Always.

Jack: I guess always.

Cristina: Always.

Jack: D***. That's what pedophilia is, isn't it? D***. Is that. I mean when you think about whatever they were throwing like a 10 year old at those things and it was like the grown men, don't get me wrong, the grown men were like 15 year olds who were gonna die like the next week of old age or some s***, you know. But they were still like significantly older than the like 10 year old.

Cristina: Yes. During the 10 year old. And a dragon or the unicorn and who knows how many other mythical creatures that they were like okay, there's a zombie. Let's throw the version and see what happens.

Jack: This is crazy, bro. Basically 1800s, follow me on the street. 1800s. God is angry at us. We're in a drought. Go to the elder, he's been around the longest. He's like 35 years old. Like 40. We're going to be generous and say he's 45 years old. The elder is like 45 years old. They die pretty young. There's nothing, there's no medicine. You just drop. And anytime you catch anything, you're dead.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Anybody who made it any age. Amazing.

Cristina: Got the code. You're dead.

Jack: Yes. You're screwed. So go to the elder. He's like 45 years old. The longest living person there is. Always the elder. He knows the most. Hey elder, we need to solve the rain problem. There's a drought and elder's like this 45 year old. Throw a virgin in the volcano. Now in his eyes, a virgin. The establishment of what a woman is. Hasn't happened yet, right? What year is it? Like 11. 1100s.

Cristina: You said 1800s.

Jack: No, that was exactly. Okay, that was exaggerated. Like the 1800, like the 1100s.

Cristina: Right way back there.

Jack: So we can throw her into the volcano.

Cristina: This 10 year old girl.

Jack: 10 year old girl. Some 45 year old guy is like let's throw her in the volcano because d***, this is the 1800s. This is hard. This is harsh. Can you imagine how savage these 1800s are? This is. This is like a week ago. This is scary, bro. This is too short ago.

Cristina: No, they would just set her on fire, dude.

Jack: Yeah. Oh, fair enough. It was still the 1700s, wasn't it?

Cristina: 17.

Jack: 1700S, yeah. Okay, that was a little further. It's man, it was still too close.

Cristina: Are sure the Salem witch trial things, that was 1700s. 1700s, I'm pretty sure. Late 17.

Jack: I mean, let's check that. Let's confirm.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Because late 1700s, I mean, I'm thinking like 1777, 1692-3. Yeah, that checks out. I feel like late 17 might have been too. Too soon still. Yeah. 16. Latest 1600s. Yeah, that checks out. That makes sense. Early 17.

Cristina: There's another one though, in the 1878. Does that count?

Jack: Witch trials.

Cristina: A witch trial.

Jack: Oh, a witch trial. I mean, yeah, as laws say, like way ancient in certain places and they take a while to catch up.

Cristina: Burning people.

Jack: Well now that is incredibly weird that they can only be tamed by a virgin. But what's even stranger is that throughout all of. I guess, I guess it's not as weird, but that it's a symbol for Christ. But it kind of makes sense considering that like Old Testament, God was totally into sacrifices.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: He loved virgins and children.

Cristina: Jesus was a virgin. Is he a virgin? I don't know.

Jack: Jesus wasn't a virgin.

Cristina: He wasn't?

Jack: No. But no, he was a symbol for Christ. And the unicorn doesn't have to be a virgin. What do you mean? If the unicorn is a symbol for the unicorn, isn't the virgin here?

Cristina: No, I'm saying is the Christ the virgin?

Jack: No, the unicorn symbolizes Christ. Christ must like virgins.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Which is weird because I'm sure he was banging Magdalene. Like she was far from like. Like, let's be real. Jesus had no game because the one chick he was down with or he was very sexually open minded because the one chick he was down with was known as like the. The block w****. Which is also a lie. Anyway, so whatever. That totally wasn't even mentioned in the Bible like that. That's an exaggeration from people.

Cristina: Mm. He was hanging out with dudes all day. What are you talking about?

Jack: Wear that packages for days. Sausage fests every day, all day, nothing more.

Cristina: He loved that braid.

Jack: Sus mega sus. Mega sus mega sus. Now this Christ unicorn. Nah, not Christ unicorn, but. So the unicorns horn is talked about in these mentions. These three big mentions. Talk about a couple of things that kind of pop up here and there in similar ways. So the unicorn is the source of the magic? The unicorn horn. The horn.

Cristina: They mention magic though.

Jack: Yes. They literally, in some manner, shape or form, mention that whatever makes them unique exists within. In their horn.

Cristina: Right.

Jack: Now I'm using the term magic, but that was only mentioned specifically for the people in the middle. The Middle ages that they mentioned that it was in Fact, a magical creature.

Cristina: Why did they give examples? Besides attracting virgins or whatever. Okay.

Jack: But the magic existed in its. In its horn. And it was also made of a material that they called alicorn.

Cristina: So out of something that it's rare.

Jack: It's like a. An elephant's tusk.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And if extracted, a magical tool could be crafted from it. Maybe a wand didn't describe this tool, anything. It's up to your imagination because it's magical. It's only an example of like a wand.

Cristina: But that's your example or their example.

Jack: That's they know anything you can think of. They mention things like wands, but it's like anything you can think of. And any purpose tool. Now you have a magic version of it.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: It could also be used for medicine, said to be able to heal anything. And it could be used to create potions.

Cristina: So much of witchy stuff.

Jack: Yes. And when. Now, interesting, interesting point here. With these potions, specifically an alicorn potion, the drinker of the potion would themselves get powers or abilities.

Cristina: What are these? Do they have examples of these powers or abilities? I have to know. What is this magic? They're just saying magic here and there. What?

Jack: Enter the merchant.

Jack: There was a merchant claiming he had obtained some unicorn powder. That is ground alicorn.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And he was reported seeing between the years of 1739 and 1741.

Cristina: Throughout those years, yes. Okay.

Jack: And in the countries of Albania, Bulgaria and Greece.

Cristina: Are those close to each other? Okay.

Jack: Yes, they are.

Cristina: Now what makes this strange?

Jack: Gonna get there.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Shop owner Atlas Demos in Greece noted that this nameless merchant with a hood and a glass bottle offered unicorn powder, bought a bowl shortly after offering the powder and left. Interesting guy, pops up, just offers powder, offers unicorn powder. Hooded dude shows up, offers thing, dips. Second guy, Toshkos Toyanova of Bulgaria, he took note of a hooded merchant with a Greek accent. Now it got weird.

Cristina: Why?

Jack: Because it's a Greek guy with a Greek accent. Was a very specific node the Bulgarian mentioned. He said that a hooded merchant with a Greek accent. And the Greeks already believe that the unicorn is real.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And this guy shows up with a Greek accent and claims to have unicorn. Unicorn powder.

Jack: Weird. But. And he offered him unicorn powder at the town square. He did not buy. It was just offered to him. Finally, Noel Thanasi, the Albanian ship captain.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Who kept extensive notes of what happened on the ship was one of his ways to entertain himself. So he had many, many, many, many records. And because he was a ship captain, he Was usually on a ship with people for hours, a long time. So he got time to see things.

Cristina: So he saw this merchant.

Jack: The Albanian ship captain wrote in his log about a hooded merchant on board.

Cristina: Also with a Greek accent.

Jack: Actually, that's the first thing. Yeah. Who also has a Greek accent. So the merchant, Greek accent. Hood offers unicorn powder.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: On the cruise, on the ship on the right.

Cristina: Wherever they're going, how many people buy it?

Jack: Claims an ill woman on board. This is him on his notes.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: He claims an ill woman on board the ship drank tea with a bit of the powder sprinkled. Within moments, the woman was, well, okay. This is a captain who sees. He's an experienced guy. He's kept notes. He has many notes. He's been at this for a while. This guy must be old and he's seen all kinds of manners. This is the first time that he's like, what the h***? On his own boat, this guy shows up.

Cristina: The only thing that happens on the.

Jack: Boat, this guy shows up. And out of nowhere he gives this woman a thing. And for the first time in his life, he sees something. He's seen so many strangers come through. It's a shame ship. He's moving people back and forth. All kinds of weird wanderers come through. This is the first time he's like, holy crap, what the h*** am I looking at? The woman gets a tea doom and instantaneously gets better. This guy's like, what? It's like, are you serious? And so he makes a note of this guy. What's up with the Greek merchant? What? What's this? Can't be real, right? He's kidding me. Other ship passengers, shortly after buy and consume the powder a series of different ways. They throw it in their drinks, they throw it in their meals, and they sort of just take part thanking the guy and for several days, just kind of hanging out with the merchant or whatever. The merchant seems real cryptic, real like he's detached according to this guy's. Because he's writing paragraphs and s***, sometimes knowing to go through it. But he's just. He's also rambling a lot of crap that's like unrelated. But he always circles back to how interesting this merchant was. Okay, now, other than the lady for a while, it all seems pretty normal. And he's like, okay, there must have.

Cristina: Been a trick he did there until something.

Jack: With exception for a man. Now, this man claims to had a walking stick his entire life, and he drank the powder and finished the rest of the trip without the walking stick. The man it's important to say that the man only said he showed up with a walking stick. He didn't say he drank the powder. Very important. This is where these notes fall apart. He took note of the man with the walking stick. Yes, that's the right way this goes. He took note of the man with the walking stick. He thinks the man drank the powder because the man finished without the walking stick. But that's the only person he doesn't know whether or not he drank the powder.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Now, all the people he knows for a fact drank the powder, had no reaction. But the man with the walking stick, who he doesn't know drank the powder, he's assuming drank the powder only because.

Cristina: Of the first lady that got better.

Jack: Because the first lady that got better. His assumption is it's only working on people with severe problems and that maybe this does in fact work.

Cristina: But there's no proof of that.

Jack: But there's no proof of that.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: It's just mentioned in his notes. Now, it's the same guy. We know the guy is real. The guy popped up in different places. It's the same Greek merchant.

Cristina: But also, how's he getting around? Did he do anything weird like he sold the guy the thing, but that was the end of that story.

Jack: Doesn't even say he bought it.

Cristina: Oh, I thought he bought it. No, it was just the second one didn't buy it. But the first one bought it.

Jack: No, he offered the powder and left.

Cristina: Oh, okay. Okay. That's weird.

Jack: I mean, notes weren't great back then. We're talking, like, shredded mentions of something that's like a tiny blurb. Essential. Just somebody was scribbling on a thing.

Cristina: Okay, so he's a traveling salesman.

Jack: What's weird about this is how close together these years are and how far he got as well.

Cristina: How close are those years?

Jack: We're talking 1739 to 1741. That's three years apart. And he traveled three countries quite extensively, quite far apart.

Cristina: You don't think it takes three years? Maybe on a horse or something? Like, he's not walking. I mean, he's on a boat in one of the stories.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: Both are pretty fans. Guessing.

Jack: It depends, right? How long could he be? He is on the move. One of those is literally on the move.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Man, I wonder where the ship was headed. Those. I didn't. I did not even bother looking at that. It might have been from one place to the other. These might be way closer connected than we thought. It might have been like he left one of these places. Went to the other.

Cristina: Yeah. Went to the boat and then went to wherever. Well, we don't know if his thing was doing anything.

Jack: We don't know if his thing was doing anything. There's just circumstantial evidence.

Cristina: Yeah. Interesting. This is the only guy recorded selling this powder.

Jack: The only incredibly existing individual. I thought it was very strange that there was a real person who potentially healed people with something he was claiming was unicorn powder and came from a country where they thought unicorns were real to begin with. That they saw in a country that themselves didn't know about unicorns or care about unicorns, but had a rhinoceros that could be described as unicorn. And there's a close enough description.

Cristina: And people do use rhino's horn, right? Like, they do use that like medicine. So, like. Yeah, so it could be the same thing.

Jack: Except the people who think unicorns are real also know what a horse is and think a unicorn is a variant of a horse.

Cristina: But do they know what rhinos are?

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Positive.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: The Greeks.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Because some of the bestiaries are Greek and they have.

Cristina: They have rhinos.

Jack: They have rhinos and they have unicorns.

Cristina: Okay. I don't know. Because it doesn't make sense. Doesn't make sense. Because their solution was versions contain them. Like, that makes me feel like, well.

Jack: This is where I think the unicorn is doing something similar to what Santa is doing. They're keeping fear as the fuel and they're keeping the battery nearby. So they only need one. They're not trying to be super mega God powered. Usually it's just to be elusive and it could be used for other things when they're not being elusive. But it seems like they're sort of managing what they apply it to. They're not crazy over. Probably they could do all the things at the same time. They still be caught, they can still be killed. So they're doing a small version of it, but somehow they're not. They're not killing, they're not drinking the blood or something.

Cristina: There's no stories of dangerous unicorns doing crazy things.

Jack: Not that I'm aware of, but wow. Definitely something to look into. Ultimately, I think they are somehow tapping into the same power that Santa Claus has figured out. That's my theory. Because they're not, as far as we know, drinking the blood of these virgins, but they're being consistently reported as being tamed by a virgin or keeping a virgin nearby or something related to not being dangerous and being easily seen by and being ridden by virgin.

Cristina: Very strange.

Jack: Now I'm thinking virgin, because innocence. Innocence leads to more fear because lack of experience is usually where the innocence lies.

Cristina: But I still want to know where the magic is, because I still haven't heard anything magical.

Jack: Magical examples of a unicorn. The only. The closest thing to an example of unicorn magic is the potentiality of unicorn flying. But any description of a unicorn flying felt more like they were describing a unicorn that was hopping and sustaining a hop for a long time. So a hovering unicorn at most.

Cristina: That's very strange. Okay.

Jack: Like, it's not going upwards. It's like hopping off a cliff, then making it to the other side.

Cristina: Whoa.

Jack: Now, the size of the cliff could be questionable. Is he's like, oh, I couldn't jump that as a person, but I've seen other horses do it. Or is this horse just so scared it's willing to take the shot?

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And, like, makes it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it doesn't seem like there's no credibility there. Like, if he. If they'd mentioned the distance from one cliff to the other, then we.

Cristina: Maybe you can see some magic.

Jack: Exactly. Like, is there a river in between both of them? And this horse hopped off one side and just glides to the other. Clean.

Cristina: Horse goat thing.

Jack: Yeah, horse goat thing. Okay. There is an interesting detail here that does come through the goat side of things.

Cristina: What's that?

Jack: And hold on. This was a long, long time ago. There was an Indian guy who did talk about a magical creek goat.

Cristina: No, he didn't.

Jack: But he talked about it in knowledge of the constellations. So it's a person who was studying the constellations and was talking about a Greek goat. So, like, those lines cross really hard. And that also felt like useless information because he made no mention of a horse or a unicorn. But it is just a goat.

Cristina: It's just a goat.

Jack: It's just a goat. It seems. It doesn't even seem like just a goat. It's a magical goat. And he was a person who was learning the constellations, learning astrology, particularly. He was learning astrology, and he mentions a goat in his writing. He mentions the magical Greek goat, but one. It's not the Indian unicorn goat. It's just the Greek magical magic goat. And he's a person who studies astrology. I'm sure that's a mention of his studies.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Being written back in the 1700s.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: So that didn't feel relevant. But if you wanted something about a magical goat. There you go.

Cristina: That doesn't help.

Jack: The only note there that makes sense is that the Greeks see the Unicorn as a horse down there. And then some Indians said there was a magic goat in Greece. That's the only like the two dots that I was like, oh, interesting. But then I was like, this is useless.

Cristina: This is.

Jack: This is a coincidence more than anything.

Cristina: Yeah, yeah. I see nothing magical unless attracting versions.

Jack: Is magical, which sounds just like a dude fantasy.

Cristina: Exactly. Yeah. I guess it's magical to men.

Jack: It's magical to men.

Cristina: Yeah. All right. I guess. I guess that's it.

Jack: Yeah, that's. That's what we got on unicorn and I. It's kind of useful to some degree because that means there's a potentiality. There are unicorns. And unicorn doesn't seem particularly magic magical, which tells me that it's a really grounded kind of thing. It's probably really using very little amounts of magic to either sustain its life for really long or maybe do this dumb hover thing.

Cristina: So you think it is an actual creature though, and not just a real animal being confused or something else?

Jack: Well, the possibility is that it's a creature that is on adrenochrome, but it's not doing anything. So that's what you can. We can investigate that and write that off at some point. There's just a creature that isn't on adrenochrome and is also not magic. It's just an elusive normal horse type thing or a rhino type thing or a goat type thing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And we can write that off if we find out which one it kind of really is, which seems to lean towards horse. Some weird kind of deformed horse or a species of horse that lives in mountains or somewhere that probably has a mist everywhere and looks majestic and people are like, wow, magic. Fun fact. Not here in the notes, but it is a detail that did pop up. You're usually seeing a unicorn standing, looking north when they're motionless. This is the opposite of a dog who poops south. So I guess the dog is also looking north technically.

Cristina: Okay, wait, say that again about the unicorn.

Jack: A unicorn is usually when they're stationary, they're usually aiming north. You can reliably see a unicorn aiming north. So wherever the unicorns is pointing when they stopped is usually north. Which means. That doesn't make any sense. That's one of those things that people just say because like the unicorn has to stop looking somewhere else at some point. It can't always. Like, it's always has to be.

Cristina: It's 100% looking north.

Jack: And yeah, like it has to always be in motion to look anywhere else. What if it's something. What if there's a wall behind it and whatever it needs to eat is against the wall? It can't, because it could only look away from the wall when it's there.

Cristina: That makes it sound sort of magical.

Jack: That makes it look like it lives h***.

Cristina: It lives h***. Yeah. It's in a magical magnet. Yeah.

Jack: That's crazy. So that sounds like bull crap to me.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: But anyways, I think we got some information to look into, and we have some details about the unicorn that I think are fascinating.

Cristina: It's potentially that we might have to.

Jack: Research more on, and we might have to tackle this creature. We might have to catch it, because if we could figure out what they're doing, then we can figure out enough power. Then go get Santa. First, we need a version to attract the unicorn.

Cristina: Yes. I get. Wait, are we versions because we're clones? I'm not really sure. But you have a wife, so I'm assuming. Wait, is this version of you married? I don't know.

Jack: This version of me has a.

Cristina: A.

Jack: What was it? A baby with a Bigfoot.

Cristina: Oh, my. Wait.

Jack: Yeah. I got raped by Bigfoot and we had a baby.

Cristina: Oh, yes. That happened.

Jack: That happened. I have a son.

Cristina: Oh, yeah.

Jack: And the other version of me was married to the cockroach, which also had a child. So there's a. It's the same DNA. So in theory, my DNA. Although I didn't make that baby with that disgusting roach.

Cristina: Are you raising that baby?

Jack: I'm not raising that baby.

Cristina: Are you raising this baby? No.

Jack: No, I'm not raising either.

Cristina: Okay. Okay. So you're definitely not a virgin?

Jack: I'm definitely not a virgin. I can't be the honey.

Cristina: Oh, man.

Jack: Can you be the honey?

Cristina: I guess I could be.

Jack: Yeah. We gotta throw you at the. In the volcano, I guess, to attract the unicorn. I don't know how to attract. We'll figure out how to attract the unicorn.

Cristina: I think we should throw me in.

Jack: A volcano just in case. Maybe it's a. Hey, we could write that one off, you know?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: I mean, we can make more of us.

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: It is what it is.

Cristina: We'll do different things.

Jack: That's fair. Like where you're going with this.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Anyways, so if you guys want to find out more where this goes, I suppose, and about other creatures of which we have extensively gone through, you can find. You can contact us, you can message us on our socials, at Twitter, on Instagram, on TikTok, usconvopod.

Cristina: Remember to subscribe, rate, and review the show.

Jack: Yes. And let someone who might like this show know about it.

Cristina: This has been the Rambling podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Bye. And then they're like.

Jack: It would be crazy. I don't know. YouTube's full of. I don't believe it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Memers. You know memers be doing memeing.

Cristina: Yes. But it'd be so awesome if that was true. It's hilarious. I don't think I'd rewatch the whole show like that, but, yeah, I would. Just, like, Just curiosity.

Jack: Like old Resident Evil dubs.

Cristina: Yeah. But there's no way, because people love the show, so I can't imagine that they were watching it like that.

Jack: The content is probably better than the conversation and dialogue.

Cristina: Yeah. Actually, what's happening is really interesting. Just the first episode is packed with everything.

Jack: Yeah. Yeah. It's f****** awesome.

Cristina: Yep. Everybody watching that so late. The next thing we need to watch that we are so late to is the Tiger King.

Jack: Yeah. Holy s***. I haven't seen that yet. You're right.

Cristina: Yeah. So, yeah, we're behind. Good morning. Good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by greatthoughts.in fox art by 0lupo and logo by Seth McAllister with social media managed by Amber Black.

November 12, 2022

Rambling 200: The Jersey Devil

November 12, 2022/ GreyThoughts.Info

What is the origin of the Jersey Devil? What would the Jersey Devil even be? Are there other creatures similar to the Jersey Devil? The Duo unpack one of Jersey’s weirder mythologies, and deep dive into the reality of the matter when it comes to the Jersey Devil and what creatures could have fueled the inception of this tale.

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed:

Weird New Jersey
Benjamin Franklin
Jersey Devil
Mystical Creatures
The Chupacabra
Banshees
Strange Birds
Rare Bats

Our Links:

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

July 23, 2022

Rambling 185: Akashita the Jehovah of Dark

July 23, 2022/ GreyThoughts.Info

For what reason is Christian diety Jehovah depicted above the clouds? Why does Japanese cloud yokai Akashita have human physical features? And how are they connected? The duo tries to uncover whether Jehovah and Akashita are one and the same by discussing the personality shift between the new and old testaments of the bible.

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed:

Nick Kroll
Is Goku Jesus?
Adrenochrome
Editing the Bible
Scripture Right or Wrong
The Garen of Eden
Who made the Fruit of Knowledge?
The Shadow Realm
War of the Clouds
Mass Extinction Event

Our Links:

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

+Transcript

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: welcome to the Rambling Podcast, the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And so what happened recently was that. I'll see how long I can hold that.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: What happened recently is that we were talking about last week specifically.

Cristina: Are you trying to do, like, who are you trying to be? Are you that monster from that show, Big Mouth? Or are you doing something else?

Jack: You think I'm doing a Nick Kroll impression? You think I'm doing a Nick Kroll impression?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Oh, I guess it's kind of in that ballpark, right? Interesting. Is that in the. What is it called? He's the hormone monster.

Cristina: Yeah, the hormone monster.

Jack: Is this the hormone monster? Wait, isn't the hormone monster. Yeah, the hormone monster. Is Nick Kroll, or is the hormone monster Jason Manzoukas?

Cristina: No, it's Nick.

Jack: It's Nick, right?

Cristina: Pretty sure it's Nick. Nick has a lot of people in that show.

Jack: Nick. Nick is a. Let's. Let's be real and applaud. It's so freaking underrated, bro. That's a genius. Right? Like, he does so much crap and, like, nobody's looking in that direction. It's like, why, dude? And it's all good. Yeah, it's like, why is he not like, one of the biggest s**** that's ever existed in the comedy world?

Cristina: Did you see him show? He was doing pretty much the same thing in his show. Not the same thing, but he was doing a bunch of characters pretty much.

Jack: Yeah, it's. Yeah, exactly. He's just really exaggeratedly skilled and can do quite a bit of work alone.

Cristina: So you're done with the voice?

Jack: Oh, I totally. Yeah. See, I'm not. I can't commit. Anyways, so the point is.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: That last week. Last week on Dragon Ball Z, Goku was talking about.

Cristina: He was not.

Jack: He was totally here, but he was.

Cristina: Talking about some type of science thing. No sign.

Jack: We were talking about a science.

Cristina: I don't know if that's where you were going with it. If he was talking about science to us. No, no, he wasn't.

Jack: Goku probably knows science. No, no, he does.

Cristina: Okay. What was he talking about?

Jack: He was talking about. Who would be more accurate to be talking about that? Anyways, so he was talking about. I don't remember exactly how the conversation led him. It was something about profit. We're going to become prophets and predict how the world was going to end or some.

Cristina: That is very strange that he was talking to us about that.

Jack: No, we were talking about that.

Cristina: Whatever, though, because, like, isn't he Jesus or something? No, that's not.

Jack: I guess he's kind of like Jes. Well, no, not really. Jesus was sent to Earth to destroy it. That's.

Cristina: Wait, you said Jesus?

Jack: Yeah, you said Jesus.

Cristina: No, but you said Jesus was sent to Earth to destroy it.

Jack: No, that would be if Goku was Jesus. Okay, then that means Jesus is essentially just an alien sent to Earth to destroy it.

Cristina: We don't know that, but I see.

Jack: What you mean, because his story is kind of like the boy who turned out to be the chosen one.

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: And is here to save the world or whatever. So, yeah, I see. He's both sent there to destroy it and that, like, prophet, Savior, Jesus.

Cristina: It could be Wolf.

Jack: Yeah, yeah.

Cristina: You don't know.

Jack: Look, this is. If there's any argument. I mean, I guess it's on point. We're talking about the point which is the future. But if there's any consideration to how this particular prophet. It could possibly be both, it's that Jehovah of light clearly does not agree with Jesus. Only Jehovah of Dark does, which is do you but let them do them. Which was not the motto of Jehovah of Light, which was like, bro, you do what I say, how I say f*** yo. S***, I don't care what you want to do.

Cristina: It's like, whoa, even though he's light, he's bad.

Jack: Yeah, Basically he's from this side is why he's Jehovah of light.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: The other thing we call Jehovah, but is clearly not unless at a God tier, there's some sort of application of the principle of opposites, polarity, you know? And if that applies, then Jehovah of Light was simultaneously created with Jehovah of Dark, which I think we discussed before, because the theory would suggest that there is a Me of Dark. Even if I can also go there, it can also come here. But there should be a. If equal opposites happens, and in the shadow room, there should be a me or something equal. There should be an equal to me on this side.

Cristina: Huh? I don't remember talking about that.

Jack: Maybe it's just a thought I had during one of our conversations.

Cristina: Okay. Because I remember talking about the light and dark of them.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Talking about us as humans and is there a different form of us?

Jack: Well, so the idea here was that The Jehovah of the Dark that somehow replaces Jehovah of Light in the Bible, dead center at the birth of Jesus Christ. And suddenly the rules change and kindness is in and horror punishments are out.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: If that's the. The outcome here, the idea that we're saying is that the guy who comes from. We're assuming he's coming from the shadow.

Cristina: Realm, but they both are. Or. No.

Jack: No, not Jehovah of Light, of Dark, and Jehovah of Light. Only Jehovah of Light is from this side. He's something from this end.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But his equal opposite is Jehovah of Dark. And somehow Jehovah of Dark from the shadow realm crosses over and gets rid of Orin prisons, which is what we suggested initially, Jehovah of Light. But in this case, we're assuming that regardless of what happened between them, that one took over. What's the origin of the other? And why are they equal in caliber.

Cristina: But not philosophy equal in that, like, whoever's here can't travel over there, and whatever's over there can travel here and there whenever they want.

Jack: Maybe whatever's over here could travel over there. And we don't know that.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Because we can travel over there.

Cristina: We can't travel over there.

Jack: Well, we have ways of crossing, but.

Cristina: It'S usually having to do with something from over there helping us get there.

Jack: Yes, or dying.

Cristina: Or dying.

Jack: But there's ways, because death is not the end of life. It's just a part of life. And so a lot of creatures, a lot of people, a lot of things in this end go and take adrenochrome.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Have their moment of immortality, they run out or get killed by some other means that aren't natural, and they, instead of disappearing entirely, just enter the shadow realm. So something is happening. Also, we've never discussed what happens to the individuals outside of the shadow realm, because we know that that equals going to the shadow realm. But what the f*** happens if you didn't consume and then you did die?

Cristina: What does a normal person go through?

Jack: Yeah, we've established what happens if you die with adrenochrome. What really happens if you die? It can't just be all physics and s***. There has to be some logical counter to the. To the shadow realm, which I guess would be like heaven or whatever we're calling heaven or h***.

Cristina: So another location of dead people.

Jack: Yes, I guess.

Cristina: I don't know. That's complicated. Why would there be?

Jack: Well, I guess it would be an infinite number of locations. Right. And different ways to get there? Because are we assuming that heaven is all. It's. That's a different realm, right? That's not a different dimension? No, we're in every dimension simultaneously. That's another realm. That's the other location we never talk about.

Cristina: Isn't it here, though? Isn't it like a physical place?

Jack: So you're saying I can, like, get on a rocket ship and fly up to Heaven?

Cristina: The way they make it seem. I don't know if that's right, but it feels like it's like the Hercules stories where they live up there in the clouds?

Jack: Well, no. In the. In the Christian Bible. It doesn't work that way. In the Christian Bible, heaven is some sort of untraversible thing. It's impossible to get to without dying. Unless they literally.

Cristina: No, because they could. Because that's why he destroyed the tower they were making that was gonna go up to heaven.

Jack: Did he really think they were gonna get to him? Is that the idea? Or he was just punishing them for the attempt?

Cristina: It could be either. Or. But if he was punishing them for almost getting there. Yeah.

Jack: Well, no, that's the question. If it's punishment or resistance. If it's punishment, then you don't really. They weren't gonna get anywhere. You're just like, why are you trying to cheat? Yeah, but if it was just him protecting himself. Well, okay, what of space, then?

Cristina: And, yes, I feel like he was protecting himself because every time they go to heaven, they go up into the sky, though, too. That you physically. You see it. You see?

Jack: I love what you said. And it. I had a lag moment. And, like, you said, like, the gods who live on towers and s***, right?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Okay. Except the depiction of Jehovah is on clouds. His heaven is in the clouds, not on a mountain. What if it's a literal location? That is a thing of a collection that looks like to us a collection of clouds. And it's not. It's below space to us. Like, I could fly and miss it because it would just look like clouds to me.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: But he's just a creature literally living in some sort of cloud kingdom above. And he just looks like clouds. And you can't tell where he is. He could be anywhere.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Weird question. We're looking for a cloud.

Cristina: We're looking for a cloud.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: I thought we found it. Oh, no, we're not.

Jack: We need Steve.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: To finish.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And we're looking for a cloud. We need Steve because he communicates with clouds or whatever the f*** he does, and that Cloud. The godlike cloud. The godlike cloud with godlike behavior. And now we're considering this possibility that.

Cristina: There is a creature living on clouds which are actually creatures. Which kind of makes sense. There are creatures that live on other creatures.

Jack: Yeah, but not even creatures living on other creatures, but rather this particular cloud. Like why would God. Why would the God. Why would Jehovah be a human looking thing living up there? What if what we're looking for is. Goes by one name, but that's just its Japanese name and we're talking about Jehovah. And the reason nobody has ever found Jehovah is because they're looking for a humanoid thing in the freaking sky.

Cristina: Well, when they describe him, I would imagine he's not actually a cloud. He is a creature from the sky. But it would be more likely that he's some type of electrical creature because he's blinding. When you see him, you'll be blind.

Jack: Well, theories.

Cristina: We know that electricity, like lightnings, could be creatures.

Jack: Yes. But also we. Yeah, totally. 100% lightning could be creature. But we know this cloud has a face, which means it has human characteristics, which means that maybe the things people have reported that show up in the Bible. Oh, he showed us a shoulder. I saw the shoulder of God and then my face was glowing and all I saw was a shoulder. He was too much to see. Yeah, but what happens when we look at this cloud? Akashita. That was his name. What happens when we look at Akashita, his face? We see what looks like a face.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: When somebody reported what looked like a shoulder.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: You see the similarity there? There's just. Well, I. You can only see a small part of me. Maybe the face glowing thing is the exaggeration in that story. Maybe what he did see was some humanoid fe. But it's because this creature has the ability to do that. Just make himself. He's a cloud. I can look like whatever the f*** I want. Okay, so he'll do things because it's a weird thing.

Cristina: He could be cloud. I mean, like, he loves creating storms and stuff, right?

Jack: Yeah. And he's curious. Right. And he sees he didn't make these creatures. We know he didn't make us. Really? Really. He's something that showed up and wants to convince us of that. But there's a bunch of other s***.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And he knows that. That's why he tells you, hey, don't look at the other s***.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Right. So there's other stuff. He's not special. He didn't make us. We're just Here. And there's a bunch of crap fighting for our attention.

Cristina: That would be weird. No, he can't be the cloud creature we're looking for because. Or he could. That's confusing because the. What's it called? The Triangle.

Jack: The Bermuda Triangle with a bunch of clouds?

Cristina: Yes. It's hiding Adam and Eve from God, which is a cloud. The clouds are hiding.

Jack: Well, hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up.

Cristina: Does this make sense?

Jack: No. Yes, it does. And I'm gonna. And I'm about to blow your f****** mind, bro. Okay, let's ground it, because this is what we do. The show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas. Okay, I established that there's Jehovah of Light and Jehovah of Dark. And I also established that the narrative changed in the middle of the Bible 2000 years ago.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: The reason Akashita looks like a dark cloud is because we're looking at Jehovah of Dark. Obviously, we're not dealing with the other one. Thus solving your problem.

Cristina: The other one? Light. Wait, which one is the one that's from the shadow realm?

Jack: The Jehovah of Dark? Akashita. The one that's out there. I think Jehovah of Dark is Akashita. That's my conclusion. They're the same.

Cristina: Wait, is he the bad one, though?

Jack: No, no, he's the good one.

Cristina: The good one. And he comes from here?

Jack: No, the good one comes from the shadow realm.

Cristina: Oh, okay. Okay. Yes, it's a little confusing.

Jack: Yes, it's definitely confusing because I'm referring to where they come from, what their stance is. According to. We usually we think light good, dark bad. But here it's the opposite because whatever was from here is what's messed up.

Cristina: And whatever that's crazy because everything from there so far has been the messed up thing. But we're saying for some reason, the one that's here is the messed up one and not the one from over there.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, 100%. But the thing that's over here is already kind of weird. And it's a cloud that drains people of blood and s***. So that's also kind of crazy. Like it's a monster at the same time.

Cristina: Yes, yes, that's true.

Jack: It doesn't often, and it doesn't need to, and it won't. It's almost like if you f*** with it, it will. You're screwed.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: But also, it sounds like an animal that's sentient. Or not an animal sentient, but like a. He's Curious.

Cristina: But now we have to look for creatures that are like cloud monsters, but also that they have rivals. And what do those rivals look like? Because then we could figure out what could possibly be. Like, what other stories could be telling the God of Light, or whatever you want to call him. Jehovah of Light.

Jack: Jehovah of Light. Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. We have to find.

Cristina: We found something that could be Jehovah dark. There has to be somewhere else that.

Jack: Shows Jehovah of Light. There has to be an example. Well, we know.

Cristina: Fighting each other, probably.

Jack: Interesting, interesting. There has to be a. Well, there are stories of brothers fighting each other.

Cristina: Yes, but I mean, like, more. Because those are way ancient stories. But we need something more recent. List the cloud stories more recent in.

Jack: The form of the Christian mythology. Is that the argument here? There should be an example that maybe somewhere they tripped up and said something that tells of somehow the sky fighting the sky or some s*** like that.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: To then be like, wait, they did. They. They hit. They tried hiding the thing. It's just too many bugs. It's too much going on. You will have. That's why there's so many plot holes. Because they took out s*** that was filling in the gaps.

Cristina: Because they needed. We do have to find it in some other story outside of.

Jack: But then that'll tell us where to look by comparison. So we. We find it outside first and then we bring it in. So we find some equivalent story of sky fighting sky, clouds fighting clouds.

Cristina: Something.

Jack: Yeah, something, something.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And then we. When we find the story, we find out what the story is and what story is similar to that story in Christian mythology.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Then we jump into Christian mythology and look at the story and see if this is the battle between Jehovah of Light and Jehovah of Dark. Thus proving the point.

Cristina: Yeah, I guess that's what we gotta do. Yes. That sounds like a great idea.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: We're gonna find the.

Jack: Now, is Lucifer Jehovah of Dark? Are those one in the same? Or is Jesus the prophet Lucifer one of those two? Because they share. They share similar ideas. You're saying that Jesus is Jehovah of Dark? That that story of Jesus being the son of God is true? That maybe. Okay, this is interesting because there is a similar story with Zeus. Thus Hercules.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Is Jesus Hercules, I guess. Right. Kind of. He's the chosen special one, directly son of God. So. Yeah.

Cristina: Okay. Yeah.

Jack: Yeah. From a mortal and a God.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Just like Jesus.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: He might also be saying, I don't know.

Jack: No, that's almost the Same s***. Yeah, That's a whole other bag of worms. But we're gonna get there because then the idea is that Jehovah of Dark, immediately after somehow taking over whatever Jehovah of Light was dealing with, was conquering whatever was his property. When Jehovah of Dark immediately took over that he impregnated a mortal woman as the first thing he did. Not in a bad way. But this person needs to have gifts and they need to tell these people who've been told to fear shame though.

Cristina: That he's a cloud king. Because the clouds are protecting Adam and Eve in the water layer. So like, holy crap. Had them. He put them in charge then. That's not like a prison of clouds that act strangely or anything. He put them there specifically.

Jack: He's not keeping them in, he's keeping everything else out.

Cristina: Yeah, protecting them from the Jehovah of Light. Yeah.

Jack: Interesting, interesting. That checks out. So then this child isn't.

Cristina: Because he'd be the snake that helped them out.

Jack: Well, no, we don't know what the f*** that snake was. That's not established yet. That's still an assumption that that's even Lucifer.

Cristina: I'm saying that it's most likely Jehovah of Dark that helped them.

Jack: You think?

Cristina: Yeah, to get them. Them to see that this light guy is alive.

Jack: Interesting. So the argument would be that Jehovah of. Yeah, cuz Lucifer was there back then. But Jehovah of Light claims Jehovah of Dark is his creation.

Cristina: He would do that.

Jack: Interesting, Interesting. He would do that.

Cristina: He's a liar.

Jack: He's a liar. Pathological liar.

Cristina: Yeah, yeah.

Jack: And also there's an interesting philosophy as to why Jehovah of Dark couldn't just tell everybody the truth. Right. There is this ideology with proof. It's very proven before that if you suddenly change a system, it will break. You need to change it in increments. Think of how easy it was for Hitler to do what he did by changing things in increments. But think of how entire countries have collapsed because of giant changes that suddenly happened.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Increments is key. So from the very beginning of the stories told in the Bible, when Jehovah of Light. Really, really, really, who knows how long Jehovah of Dark was around. He summarized the beginning. Right. He's quick through it because it wouldn't make sense in the words of whatever they are.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: These clouds are somehow here before whatever the h*** humans developed. But these are ancient clouds. But we also know that because water recycles infinitely, those clouds have been up there forever. It's the same f****** clouds. There's never been new clouds. It's not enough that could happen.

Cristina: They're here. In the beginning of time, They've seen it all.

Jack: Yeah, they've seen it all, bro.

Cristina: Makes sense.

Jack: Yeah, since.

Cristina: And we know they're protecting us from the cat people, right? That's the thing.

Jack: Give a s***. No, they don't give a crap. We need their help for the cat people.

Cristina: Yeah. So that they won't do. They won't trap us like the other planets or something. We're going to convince them. Something like that.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't. I don't remember what the conflict was. The Cat People directly. I know it's an ancient battle we've been having for so long we forgot about what it's about. But, yeah, you know what? We're still winning. D***, that's crazy. This fight's been going on so long, we forgot what it's about. I have no idea what it's about. I feel. I think maybe just they're too powerful. And that's dangerous.

Cristina: Yes, that's pretty much it.

Jack: Yeah. You know, like, get rid of the problem, perhaps.

Cristina: We know they were here doing experiments, and we know we're one of them somehow.

Jack: Somehow. Well, adrenochrome.

Cristina: Yes. Because of cat people. Yeah, somehow.

Jack: Somehow. But anyway, so Jehovah of Dark did small incremental changes. The Bible begins at that point. Hey, look. What the f*** is this? Because again, it was quick, quick, quick. And then Jehovah of Dark shows up. So there was a log being essentially kept by Jehovah of Light that he then told people to write down.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: That was the point he was keeping. He was using them as their diary. You guys invented writing. How interesting. I've never considered this. So I'm gonna tell some of you to write stuff for me. Is that cool? And then. Yeah, whatever, dude. You're like a cloud thing. How interesting. Yeah, tell me what to write and I'll write it. Yeah, but there's a bunch of cloud people also that I got homies and cloud stuff.

Cristina: And you wouldn't tell them that because he wants them to believe he's the one and only.

Jack: No, no, no. He's saying that he's the. You know, the angels and s***.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Yeah, there's other cloud crap. And I'm gonna tell you about all the clouds. My cloud. I'm the king of my cloud world, and I come to tell you of these stories.

Cristina: Is he a cloud as well?

Jack: Yes, he has to be the opposite of weird Jehovah of Dark. Unless he's not and it's some creature, some totally different creature overthrew him. Because again, the Bible does try to. At least a Christian Bible makes a pretty heavy distinction between what they are. They aren't the same thing. It could also be. Well no, because we're assuming he's from the outside because I would have suggested that he's some sort of experiment created by Jehovah of Light.

Cristina: The dark.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: But no, because he's from the shadow realm. That's the established idea here. He could have been involved in the bringing over and so claims like you owe me.

Cristina: I think he is a shadow. I mean he, the original one is also a cloud.

Jack: Yes, they're both clouds.

Cristina: Yes. But the other clouds are somehow different because they're shadow clouds. They drink blood and stuff. Right. So I guess.

Jack: Well, they don't need to. But they can.

Cristina: But they can. Then there's gotta be other clouds that you didn't talk about, you didn't learn about. That's probably related to this other.

Jack: Well, we know that there's the blood cloud things that are just clouds on this side that when they have adrenochrome they get all red and then they get black and then they go. They create storms and weird glitches and s***. But I don't believe. But that doesn't sound like Jehovah of.

Cristina: Dark or Light Dark.

Jack: Yeah, Jehovah of Dark is the good one from the shadow realm.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: That does not sound like him. That sounds like Jehovah of Light.

Cristina: But he's not a shadow creature or plot twist.

Jack: And I guess it would kind of check out what you were saying earlier that like it does sound like they're backwards. Maybe the original thing here was just some s***. And what we're talking about really is that Jehovah of Dark settled on humans first came from that side. Maybe it's the first thing to come over here. Then settled on humans. It was like, oh s***. And they have blood. What the f*** is this s***? Imma just settle here. And what if I. If they just don't know that there's anything outside? I could just get them breeding in here and just f****** drink their blood forever and just be set, bro. But the actually good Jehovah of Light that didn't have to settle on anybody. He's good. Why would I need to conquer anybody? Let people be. That sounds way more right. Let people be. I'm Jehovah of Light. Let people be. Why would you just lie to them? Have them volunteer? If they want to give you blood, then that's perfectly fine.

Cristina: Are you changing their names?

Jack: No, I'm saying that Jehovah of Darkness is just the one at the beginning of the Bible. That he's. It's the same idea. He somehow came from the shadow realm, but he's the one at the beginning. Jehovah of Dark is the first one we encounter.

Cristina: The shadow realm one.

Jack: The shadow realm one. He came because Jehovah of light. If he's really good, he'd have no reason just to conquer humanity. There's no beef. I'm just here and I saw creatures happen. Okay, but I've seen creatures happen. Whatever. There were dinosaurs before. I didn't give a s*** then, I don't give a s*** now.

Cristina: So he's just normal clouds.

Jack: He's normal cloud that's overpowered. He's a really overpowered cloud.

Cristina: And then the blood shadow realm cloud came and changed things. And that's when the Bible started.

Jack: The Bible? Yeah, the Bible is told from the point of view of Jehovah of light at all points. Which is why he would paint the true stories of Jehovah of Dark in there. Now it's hard to change the system again. Maybe this is the smart God again. I've been watching humanity for how long? I defeated the big bad that was corrupting them, but they already believe it. So like I said, Hitler changed it in incremental changes. So this thing knows they have how many billion years before I jumped in and stopped this creature. Which if we now think about the dating on this, I guess Akashita is the shadow realm creature. Checks out. He's the darker one. Literally the dark cloud.

Cristina: I thought he was. Oh, he is the dark cloud.

Jack: And he is a cloud that drinks blood.

Cristina: Oh, okay, now it doesn't.

Jack: He doesn't do it chaotically. But also, we're assuming that we're talking about a God who tried to establish an order and ended up with a religion. Checks out. That he wouldn't be a vicious murderer just blankly. He's creative. He's the cloud to think so smart.

Cristina: Should we be messing with him then?

Jack: I don't know, because listen to me, he got beat by Jehovah of Light. It's still the Bible we're talking about. He was just at the beginning. Regardless, when we find him, we know regardless of who's who, when we find them, they're fine. Because the second part of the Bible.

Cristina: He'S not the one protecting Adam. And Eve, it would be the light.

Jack: Jehovah of light is the one protecting. Yeah. But regardless, whatever cloud is out now is the cloud we're talking about. And that cloud is good no matter what name we give them. Is this the order of events that led to the cloud being good and which is the good cloud, what we're establishing? Because the good cloud won no matter what.

Cristina: The good cloud being the second part of the Bible.

Jack: Jehovah of Light.

Cristina: But you're saying.

Jack: Or not Jehovah of. Yeah, whatever. Does the Jehovah of Light is the second part of the Bible, no matter what?

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: It's just. How is that playing out?

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Or I guess not Jehovah of Light in the second part of the Bible, but sorry for the confusion.

Cristina: This is confusing. Okay, yes.

Jack: If Jehovah of Light as the second part of the Bible, then he beat Jehovah of dark at the beginning of the Bible. And that would have been Akashita being.

Cristina: The light or the dark.

Jack: The dark. The dark. Always Akashita.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Always Akashita.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And that just means. That falls in line with how old the stories of Akashita are.

Cristina: So then the.

Jack: They're about.

Cristina: Yes. He's the dark. Then the light one is somewhere hidden, but he is the one hiding Adam and Eve.

Jack: Yes. So the. The series of events would go as follows. Some creature from somewhere shows up. He is this dark cloud thing. This is a new narrative. We're correcting the events of the Bible and assuming that the true creatures in the Bible we're talking about are these cloud creatures.

Cristina: Okay, so there are already clouds here. There were people here already because cat people. Then the cloud shows up from the shadow realm.

Jack: No, Cat people were here when humans were here too.

Cristina: Oh, okay. Yeah, but they made the humans and then this shadow creature.

Jack: We don't know they made the humans. We know the humans worship them.

Cristina: I thought they were experiments.

Jack: Were they. They were experimenting on humans, weren't they?

Cristina: Oh, I thought they were human. They were. They were like, science experiments. They made.

Jack: No, I don't remember that being established, but maybe we just gotta find that to be true.

Cristina: Oh, okay. Well, whatever. Okay, whatever. Humans are here. The cloud God is here. But he's not, like, trying to convince anyone.

Jack: He doesn't care. He's a cloud. And then he's seen dinosaurs happen. He saw people happen. He saw a cat God. He's whatever.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Which. Then we'll get to the events of Cat God leaving shortly after.

Cristina: Then the shadow realm God came.

Jack: Yes. And he then settles down and decides, I'm gonna grab these couple of people, wipe their minds or something. They're gonna just be fresh.

Cristina: Some crazy event happened that summoned him here in a way. You know, like.

Jack: Yeah. Like a supernatural rip or something that this thing snuck in.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And then decided, well, this is badass. And, like, never been here before. But, like, there's resources in this realm I've never seen and I like them.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And I'm going to take him. I don't know how he stumbled upon. He probably just chilled here for hundreds of years before he tasted blood. Right. And was like, holy. What? What? Or just saw a murder chilled there and was like, what the f***?

Cristina: Yeah. He was probably just drinking off of fear first.

Jack: Yeah. He felt it.

Cristina: I mean, he probably came here from. With fear.

Jack: Yeah. He felt it in the direction of whatever rip or thing allowed him to get here.

Cristina: Whatever was the big first thing in the Bible, which would be when God set the world on fire. He did that first. Right. Or he drowned the world first. He drowned the world, I think. And then. Which wasn't really him. The world just a giant flood came. People got scared. A lot of people got scared. This shadow came.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: And he was like, I did it.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cristina: Better not do that again.

Jack: But it was. That wasn't even the first appearance.

Cristina: That wasn't.

Jack: No, the first. Because again, it's the dark shadow thing is the very first thing in the Bible. It's just that story is being told by Jehovah of light. But the events of that story are starting. So he's there from Adam and Eve. He shows up, sees Adam and Eve, and decides, I'm gonna settle here.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And I'm gonna breed these things.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: The flood is way later. But he's probably taking claim for everything horrible that happens with convenient timing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And he can also probably cause crazy s*** because that he could. We know Akashita can. So you could cause nuts things. Weaker storms can cause massive things. We know those like tower storms that just come colossal and destroy in their path.

Cristina: But it makes no sense that there's just two people. He. Maybe he. There was some event that wiped off a bunch of people and only two were left.

Jack: Well, I think the event was caused by the Akashita. I think it was part of. Oh, it was just like, hey, I snatched these individuals up. I put them somewhere else.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: That they're probably an island or some s***. That they're completely away from everything else. It's a big island. Because my plan is to mass produce Them or not an island, but he's also capable of moving through the sky, seeing where humans are settling down. And he's like, I'm gonna move them too far for them to walk out of. And also probably craft enough. I'm a landscape so that it's impossible for them to leave anyways. And I'm a breed them in there after I wipe their minds with my whatever abilities. And then Imma just tell them what the universe is, however I want so that I can breed them successfully without their resistance and extract their blood, I guess. And then at that very moment that this plan starts being hatched without directly messing with anything, he just becomes the thing. Now, I don't know. In this new narrative where the apples land, which is interesting that that's even the analogy.

Cristina: What apples?

Jack: The apple of knowledge. What's happening? If we've corrected everything else, what is happening here? Because there is something that. But then again, the lies. There's so many lies.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: This tree could have been put there by Jehovah of Light, snuck in and really Jehovah dark doesn't even know which tree it is. He knows. He made trees for them to eat. And then Jehovah of light snuck one in and he's like, hey, I got a secret. Can't tell anybody.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: One of those trees. And I'm gonna tell you exactly which one. I'm pointing over there. That one. Okay. That tree over there, it has a fruit that's gonna give you your memory back. It's gonna give. It's the fruit of knowledge.

Cristina: But maybe it helps them actually see what these creatures are from the shadow realm. Maybe it helps them communicate with the shadow realm.

Jack: Well, they don't need to know that information for one reason. Once they get their memory back, they'll instantly be able to know. Well, I was living over there before I got snatched up. My memory got eradicated. Like, duh. This is an a******. H*** yeah.

Cristina: Yes. And then that's why they live in that underwater kingdom. They're protected.

Jack: Yeah. Because they do know.

Cristina: Because now they're just sea creatures now.

Jack: Yeah. After evolution or whatever.

Cristina: Yeah, yeah.

Jack: Like, what did they tell us? They genetically modified themselves at first and then adapted gradually. But yeah. You see how the story. So the fruit was actually made by Jehovah of light, and Jehovah of Dark couldn't kill it because it's the only food he gave him. So he doesn't know which one. He's like, look, I'm gonna make other fruits over there. I gotta find the fruit. Over here. So I can't get rid of these. I gotta find it to see what he did. But I don't know. I don't. I'm experimenting over here. Don't touch these fru. Only eat those over there.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Because he heard that.

Cristina: He heard like he put a decoy tree or something. Like he put something over there. And he was like, nope, I gotta make sure it's. I gotta get it out.

Jack: Yeah. He's gotta get the tree out. Because he's like, I know the son of a b**** puts a tree in there.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And I need these fruits because it's gonna do whatever the h*** I want. I put my power into it. And I can't just destroy the trees. But this a****** also put his power into his tree and I need to get his tree out. But he made it look like my trees. And now I don't know what's going on. So go to those trees until I tell you which of these trees you could eat from.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Like. Yeah. Yeah. And he's like, look, you can get all your memories back. All your memories back. Think about it. You can. You can see. You understand What I'm just telling you is crap. You need to know.

Cristina: Yes. Okay. I think this story makes sense. Sort of totally works out.

Jack: It totally checks out. So now the narrative is shifted. Jehovah of Dark is the beginning. The first. But he was not the original one here. He was just here before we were. But Jehovah of Light was definitely here long before Jehovah of Dark. He just happens to be the second part of the Bible.

Cristina: Okay. Yes. Yes.

Jack: So this cloud is chilling. Akashita somehow, following the scent of fear, crosses the threshold from the shadow realm.

Cristina: The dinosaurs dying. There you go. That's the solution. That's a big enough event that would create so much fear. Even if it's not human fear. Even if it's not human.

Jack: Human fear have the strongest heat.

Cristina: It's the Mount.

Jack: Yeah. Yeah. No, you're totally right. I think you solved it. Right. Because it has to be an event that so drastically shifts everything.

Cristina: Horrifying.

Jack: Yes. That is. She just manifests. And he's a. What the f***? Where am I? Or it's the first rip between this specific. Because there has to be many different real.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: This just happens to be the one we found. But why? Because an event that just happens, like tearing a hole through one universe and landing on another. We just tore a hole through a realm which works differently than traversing space.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And so this event. Meteor hits the first instance of life. And as it gets closer, the temperature starts to drastically go up. They're just animals, but it starts to get really. And there's a lot of them starts to get really, really hot. A bunch of them start to go crazy and attack each other. They start to go into a panicked frenzy, freaking the f*** out.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And the fear only goes up and up as it literally starts to hurt, as they start to boil alive. And somewhere in some whole other realm, this creature with enough power chilling somewhere in is like. What the. Is that?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Is it a smell? Is it a taste or whatever the works over there, you know, the equivalent of a smell or taste?

Cristina: It could be. I don't know.

Jack: No, it's. It's something else. Because he's detecting it across realms.

Cristina: Yes. Oh, yes, yes. He's sensing the fear and the blood somehow.

Jack: The fear. The fear. The fear's in the blood. That's why the blood matters.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: You can just get more fury in the blood because it gets stuck there and it collects into a lot of it. But yes, before he got that far, he was. He was like, whoa, whoa, dude, I don't know what it is, but I want it. And he just followed it. But again, the event was so catastrophic that there was a peak moment between the. The height of the fear and the impact that tore something and then connected the two.

Cristina: Okay, wait, he's the bad one or the good one?

Jack: Akashita is the bad one.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Then the tear happens, and Akashita can then come through following the fear.

Cristina: Okay. Because then Jesus doesn't make sense anymore because we know he was putting on up gates everywhere to go to the shadow realm, so. And he likes blood.

Jack: The shadow realm is in heaven.

Cristina: No, that wouldn't make Jesus. Akashita.

Jack: No, the shadow realm is not heaven.

Cristina: He was putting up gates to the shadow Realm. Right, Jesus.

Jack: To stop people from going to the bad place?

Cristina: No, to get the creatures from the shadow realm into here.

Jack: He was putting up gates.

Cristina: Like open portals. He was putting up.

Jack: Oh, he was opening.

Cristina: Opening gates. There you go.

Jack: Yes. Okay, now I get what you're saying. He was opening things, Opening gates. Jesus was Jesus?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Why?

Cristina: I don't remember. But it was also happening in Japan was one of the places where he was just putting a bunch of. You were telling us the story of this. You don't remember?

Jack: Yeah, I kind of do.

Cristina: It was Jesus in Japan, where they are the ones that sing this. God, who's really God? I guess.

Jack: Wait, you're talking about Akashita?

Cristina: Not Jesus. No. Jesus was doing well, Both of them come from Japan. In this story, he's a Japanese creature. The.

Jack: Oh, my God. No, yeah, I understand. I remember. I remember.

Cristina: Was made a bunch of temples in Japan.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but yeah, that story is total nonsense. And that isn't happening.

Cristina: How do you know?

Jack: Well, we're. We were reconfiguring the story. That's the whole point here. If some of these things then others not. And we'd have to work that into what's really happening rather than just say, well, everything else changes. That's not changing. Why isn't that part changing? Why are those gates to the shadow realm? And why is that information maybe not wrong or maybe why isn't that not Jesus? And in fact, maybe somebody else.

Cristina: Okay, you get my point. That's not Jesus.

Jack: Well, here's a very interesting thing that we're not considering. In the middle of these stories, the Bible confirms Jesus dies and the story is told by Jehovah of Light. Also the moment Jehovah, because we can figure this. Or again, the moment Jehovah of light got rid of Jehovah of Dark and then settled as well. I can't instantly change it. I gotta incrementally change it. One of his incremental changes was, but I'm gonna f*** that lady. So, like, that was just something he's like, okay, look, been here for a while fixing s***. Can I just, like, put it in that one? That's it. Let's say I just want her to have. Then again, maybe he doesn't do that. Maybe it's not an attraction. Maybe it's like, I want one of me down there. I want to see what that's like. I'm not hurting anybody. I'm not gonna hurt anybody. He hasn't hurt anybody since the middle of the Bible.

Cristina: I don't know. It could still be the Jehovah of Dark. Like, he didn't change any story to say, no, this was me. No, this was that other guy who's just like me. Like, no, he put all of the stories together saying all of it's me, even though some of those are not him. So how do you know that that's him or not?

Jack: Well, based on your logic, he could be either or.

Cristina: Yeah, yeah, it's fine.

Jack: I'm assuming the or.

Cristina: Okay, well, yeah, but still, there's a possibility that.

Jack: Yeah, it's a coin toss at this point. Yeah, but assuming he is, then he would be the. Yeah, he's just the Jehovah of Light. But that guy died. And that guy having died, then we have a story like Jesus putting up gates, but that happened way later when it shouldn't have been possible. What if the point of assuring us he's dead and I'll factually let you know when he's back. You're not gonna have a doubt. But then a Jesus shows up and puts up gates and people are like, well, maybe he's Jesus and it's because maybe the diminished again. Hey, Jehovah of dark made this child. Maybe it is Jehovah's dark child. Maybe that's true and that's why he's up there putting gates to the shadow realm. Because the second one that we see is not the original Jehovah.

Cristina: You mean?

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: This new Jesus that much later just pops up ignoring the logic of his death.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And starts putting up gates to the shadow realm is really just Jehovah of dark doing that.

Cristina: And he's the one, though, that's working with the churches that creates demons to slay demons.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Because blood or whatever. And it's not really demons at this point. We're just calling demons chimeras. I mean, we're calling Chimeras demons because they're just making a science experiment that can experience a certain amount of fear and kill it.

Cristina: Yes. Okay. Yeah. And sometimes they're summoning shadow realm creatures just to kill us.

Jack: Yes. They're. They're trying. They're. They're making fear experiments.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: I guess the breed the most fearful thing in farm it.

Cristina: Mm. That's pretty horrible.

Jack: And genius. Simultaneous. It's like the darkest s*** you get. Because the life of that thing sucks more than anything that could ever possibly exist. Its existence is based on being probably briefly completely horrified and then dying.

Cristina: Yes. And other people that interact with it have pretty horrible lives. Like they like drinking the child's blood and stuff like that. Like it's pretty horrible. It's like random families get attacked by these creatures, but these creatures were sent to them by the church so that this family could call the church to get rid of this creature.

Jack: S***. So they get the family's fear and they get the creatures fear and the creature fills up on the family.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So it's a siphon that they made that they'll come get rid of for you.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: S***.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Checks out. Totally checks out. That is the most believable story I have ever heard about the church, hands down.

Cristina: That's so crazy. That reminds me of the Chupacabra. But yes, it's Almost the same thing.

Jack: Yeah, it. Except the Chupacabra comes from a different dimension or some s***. Right. It's like a God from somewhere else.

Cristina: He's from the Shadow Realm.

Jack: Well, no, he was an alien or something.

Cristina: He was an alien?

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: But he also works with Shadow Realm magic or whatever.

Jack: He did pop up. Are we just saying that? No, because they have to. Why did it come through space? It would have just popped up here. Well, maybe other creatures fear. Fear. Feel fear outside of this region. And it was just there.

Cristina: Like it popped up somewhere else from the Shadow Realm and then came here.

Jack: Yeah. So then the real question is because. Yeah, there's s*** everywhere.

Cristina: S*** out there.

Jack: But then the real question is, and this is very interesting, if these creatures are popping up elsewhere, what major event happened that allowed it to detect us from wherever the f*** it was? It then started its trip this way over here. Yeah. To Earth. So it is from the Shadow Realm, but it made an alien trip?

Cristina: I don't know. I think that that dinosaur explosion thing was pretty huge.

Jack: Like, you think the Chupacabra showed up around the time of the dinosaurs?

Cristina: Well, it was probably traveling while during that time. And who knows how long it actually took to get.

Jack: Because it's traversing space.

Cristina: Yeah, like, space is huge.

Jack: You think? No, no, no. It couldn't be the dinosaur event, because it would have shown up in this area. That's. Did you see the problem? Something brought it elsewhere. Oh, I see. It was already out here before. And then the event of dinosaurs was like, oh, crap, I'm headed that way.

Cristina: Yes, that's.

Jack: And then by the time it got.

Cristina: Here, because I'm sure the thing that happened to the dinosaurs happens on other planets. Like, those things will be summoning who knows what.

Jack: So it summoned whatever locally.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And then some crap happened elsewhere, which is over here.

Cristina: I gotta check that out.

Jack: They look our way and they come over here. And then we get something. It shows up. It took so long from the time of dying, but it was so. It was like, how magnificent. Whatever I just sensed.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: It was like whatever brought me. And I'm here for that, so I'm gonna go look for that. And so it's in who knows how far away that it took it from the point the meteor hit to 1960, like seven or something.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: To pop up.

Cristina: That's pretty crazy. But it's possible.

Jack: Intrigue. It totally is. Because it's. It's no longer like.

Cristina: I know there's other events, but nothing compared to that, at least.

Jack: Well, here's another way. Interesting point. The gaps of these crazy activities with godlike creatures is sometimes ginormous. But these colossal events we report bring them back. And that checks out even in the Bible. God only warns one guy about the flood. But after the flood, God talks to a bunch of people.

Cristina: It's more energy.

Jack: Why? It's because different gods at different points, right? All of these. And we're talking about these evil, like, do crazy s*** gods, Jehovah of dark type of things. Those events in almost all mythologies in which these conversations happen all happen when, in times of distress. When is the moment that a God is most likely to show up? There's something bad happening, and you directly asked for it. You're like, God, please help. My people are in trouble. They are suffering, they are slaved. And then God decides, holy s***, did this guy just, like, volunteer? He's like a vampire dream come true, bro. Okay, hey, hey, hey. Look, look, look. Guide your people this way. They're gonna be chasing you. But I can hold him off. And he's just being dramatic. You know, there's like, for flair here. He's being dramatic also.

Cristina: He's enjoying it because, like, he murders those people.

Jack: Chasing them, yes. But also he's gonna pick out some of them. He's. Yo, you're telling me there's gonna be a dramatic. Yeah, exactly. He is.

Cristina: Like, he just feeds them, like, barely enough to survive.

Jack: Yeah, it's gonna get bleak, but it's. Oh, I'm all in here.

Cristina: Yeah, the darker it is alive, but it's gonna suck.

Jack: Yeah, the darker it is, the more likely God is to show up, the more likely Jehovah of Dark is to pop up. He doesn't even have to be the reason it's dark. But if it's gonna get dark, he shows up. Jehovah of light, whether it's dark or not. Look, this is your human affairs. I don't expect you to meddle in my cloud affairs. I'm not gonna meddle in your human affairs.

Cristina: Yeah, this makes sense.

Jack: Objective.

Cristina: Okay, Whoa, whoa. That makes sense.

Jack: Checks out. And that Jesus event that happened so much later was, you know, Jehovah of dark. Maybe not dead, but some. I guess maybe he is that because that's his kid. But he maybe death to something from the shadow realm that has had blood is also just go back to the shadow Realm. Something about blood, adrenal chrome specifically brings you to the shadow Realm. And there's a connection there we don't understand. But something about it takes you there. But Fear can be detected from that side.

Cristina: And fear is like, you just come back here.

Jack: Well, no, not even the point that even if he's removed over there and tossed into the shadow realm, what is his son trying to do? His son is trying. Well, that other fake, not the one that is by Jehovah of Light.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Definitely just banged the chick. The dude putting up the portals. Him just using a dirty trick, being like, hey, I'm the guy from the thing. I'm putting the things up. Come to heaven. Yeah, yeah, heaven.

Cristina: Come here when you're sad.

Jack: Yeah, yeah. Come here, guys. It's all good. Then these shrines, these portals, allow creatures from over there to then show up. And probably he can't generate a meteor. He doesn't have that level of power. He needs to create enough fear, generally speaking, that perhaps allows his father through at some point. But systematically, Jehovah of Light picks at him. So science is slowly dominating the old mythology that he established. Because, again, Jehovah of Light is not gonna just break it. He knows it breaks. He's seen how humans function.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: He knows systems. He's been around. And so he's like, I can't just change it. He's doing the Hitler small incremental changes. This way, he doesn't really care if.

Cristina: We follow him or not.

Jack: He doesn't care. He doesn't give a s***. He's like, whatever. I'm just gonna try to get them out of thinking that that thing was cool.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Once they're done with that, I don't care what they fall into. But in slowly working us out of there, we're getting to where we should have been maybe way long ago.

Cristina: Yes. This makes sense.

Jack: Yes. And so the portals are less functional and less functional. And that's why over the years, we've had less creature sightings and less creature sightings, because little by little, it's just an extinguishment of creatures surviving off of fear.

Cristina: Also, more and more aliens, which makes sense because of the Chupacabra that we just talked about. Like, maybe there are still creatures.

Jack: Yes. Because the ones we're getting rid of them stuff are from here.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: But the creatures that sensed that one major event are still on their way. And they're arriving at random times because they show they left from random places at random distances.

Cristina: Yes. That's so crazy.

Jack: And who knows how far they detected it. And they could still be coming.

Cristina: They couldn't. So we won't get rid of them super fast, but we're. We're Slowly getting rid of them.

Jack: Space Force makes sense to protect us from them. Yes. We need to contact. That makes perfect sense. This needs to be set up for when the really big scary s*** shows up. We're assuming that what we've seen is not because we know that stars are real. So what's the big scary s*** that's on the other side? That's kind of like a star?

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: So we need Space Force really fast.

Cristina: We gotta still figure out this cat people thing.

Jack: Yeah. Cuz now we kind of need stars. Because there's probably some opposite thing. Of course, no amount of fear will ever bring that over.

Cristina: No, no, I don't think so.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: Because if the great void isn't big enough, like what the f*** could be. Like that fear isn't it? All those stars feel horror.

Cristina: Unless it's in there as well.

Jack: Unless they don't feel anything or they don't feel emotions. The way that fear could happen, you know, like because they're other thing.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Like Jehovah of Light isn't like giving a s*** about fear. There's no emotion, doesn't care. It's like whatever. So fear is biological.

Cristina: What about all those other gods that seem to have emotions? Or are they not?

Jack: They're probably just creatures from Earth.

Cristina: Oh yes. Or Shadow Realm creatures.

Jack: No, Shadow Realm creatures don't have emotions. Oh well, you know what?

Cristina: It could be creatures on Earth. No, no.

Jack: Shadow Realm creatures could definitely have emotions. I just blanket statement that in a total guess. I don't know.

Cristina: But it could be creatures from Earth that had adrenochrome.

Jack: Yes, 100%. Because that also makes them godlike.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: There's a lot of weird things, man. So okay, anyways. Anyways. I think we grounded a lot of humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas. I think it worked out. And on that note, we're running out of time.

Cristina: So.

Jack: So definitely sounds way more accurate, right?

Cristina: I think so. I think it makes sense now. All of it.

Jack: All of it.

Cristina: So then there's something else. I don't know.

Jack: Yeah, we solved it. We gotta look for Jehovah of Light, who's the one still around. And he's just highly disinterested because human affairs. But now it's not just human affairs because we can prove it's not. So this is not about convincing anybody. We were thinking we were chasing Akashita. And we're not chasing Akashita. We're looking for Jehovah of Light. His good Counterpart who was here all along.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: We're looking for somebody, the people that the Westerners consider already a God. He's probably in the United States somewhere. North America.

Cristina: Santa Claus. Okay, I think we got it. We gotta talk to Santa Claus.

Jack: That's fair. That thing. But look, he's. No, I can't be. It doesn't sound like either of the gods we're talking about are that overpowered. It can't be. It can't be. It's too much. It's too strong. On the okay argument, you might be right with this next point. On the flip side, Jehovah of Dark's influence was very small. But Jehovah of Light again has been around for a long time. I also don't know why he would get stronger though. So unless we can prove that there's an equivalent of adrenochrome that he can use, that isn't what Akashita was using, which was blood and fear then doesn't check out. No.

Cristina: You talk about God or Santa Claus.

Jack: Yeah, he couldn't become that overpowered. I'm assuming there has to be something that powers up a God without it being or powers up a creature like adrenochrome without it being adrenochrome and not being fear based. That then allowed him to put level up to being Jehovah without interfering with humans. I mean not become Jehovah to become Santa Claus without otherwise. The Jehovah of Light we're talking about, which is some sort of cloud and Santa Claus cannot be the same thing because the power levels we're talking about are so colossally different. Unless he's like, yeah, I'm a drink their blood too. Which I doubt he does because all of that ended as soon as Jehovah of Dark is. Is missing. So it can't be. Doesn't check out. I think Santa Claus is just really some other Santa Claus doesn't mess with s*** either.

Cristina: That's so Jehovah Light though.

Jack: But he's also not a cloud. He doesn't chill in the clouds. In fact, it chills relatively low as compared to the clouds. He's pretty ground level, you know, just lower than the plane, actually.

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: You don't see him so far away. He's like pretty close. He could like, wow, are those f****** reindeers I'm looking at. If he was at a plane's distance, even at a helicopter's distance, you wouldn't be able to make out s***. You're like, what the f*** am I Looking at. But no, he's so low. He looks like a flying car. Yeah, low flying plane.

Cristina: Whatever. We'll figure it out.

Jack: Yeah, he's nowhere near the height of a cloud on average.

Cristina: Yeah. Or we'll figure out how they're connected eventually.

Jack: Yeah. Maybe there is a power source. We do know that there's that other force that everything is connected to. AKA the force that everything is connected to. Maybe things on the other side aren't connected to that. Maybe things on this side are. And so they can somehow learn the feed off of that different ways. Because we know humans can. Humans can do things in weird ways and creatures can. And anything with powers is pulling from that source. So there must be a way to tap into that source because it's not adrenochrome and replicate that level of growth. Somehow in this instant, Jehovah of Light can siphon the energy becoming Santa Claus. We can prove that.

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: Then Jehovah of Light is Santa Claus.

Cristina: Alright, I hope we can. I hope we can.

Jack: Anyways, anyways. Anyways, anyways. You guys can find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and TikTok at JustCar. Vote Pod.

Cristina: Yes. And remember to subscribe, rate and review the show.

Jack: Yes. And let some people who might like us to know about it, you know, tell them words. Speak.

Cristina: This has been the Rambling podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Bye.

Jack: Type of liquor. Legume.

Cristina: Legume.

Jack: Legumes.

Cristina: Legions.

Jack: Legume.

Cristina: Legume. I don't know. Have ever. You. Have you ever heard someone say that word?

Jack: Like. No, I've never. Do you know how many words I know perfectly reading that I've never heard in my life?

Cristina: But how do you know you're reading them perfectly?

Jack: I don't. I'm hoping I'm doing it right.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: I see so many things that sound wrong because of all the different. Like I can't position it properly because I've never heard it. And there's a million variants of sounds that I've heard in my life.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So I don't even know if I'm gonna say it with an accent or not. If I'm saying it for the first time because I have no point of reference.

Cristina: Yeah. So you could be wrong.

Jack: I could totally be wrong. A bunch of words have odd accents when I say them and it's because I've never heard them said.

May 01, 2021

Rambling 127: Loki and Friends

May 01, 2021/ GreyThoughts.Info

What is Loki’s role in the apocalyptic Ragnarok? How do his children fit into the equation? What is the ultimate goal? Loki and his children unpacked on this episode.

Digging deeper into Loki and his history the duo uncover a winding roller-coaster of irrational activities and hijinks done by the trickster god Loki. The rabbit whole goes so deep that it reaches the other end at bestiality and cross-dressing. All that and more on this episode of Rambling.

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed

Shapeshifters
Giants
Ragnarok
Loki’s Children
The 9 Realms
Thor vs The World Serpent
Eating Contest for Gods
Loki’s Stand-Up Comedy
Bestiality
God Party
Greek Mythology
Norse Mythology
Loki’s Torture
Crossdressing Thor

Our Links:

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

+Transcript

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean? Welcome to Just Conversation, the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas in childish ways. I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And I'm Jack.

Cristina: And if you haven't yet, remember to hit that subscribe button to get notified the second new episodes are released.

Jack: Yes. And also, this show is way more enjoyable with the listening partner. So be sure to grab somebody by their arm while they're riding the train without them knowing you. And you just grab them, Grab their hand. You touch their hand while they're just distracted holding on in the train or whatever. You know, you just touch your hand.

Cristina: You'Re like, hey, that's so discerning.

Jack: You stare at them. You stare at them like, hey, when they pull their hand back, you're like, I just want to listen to a podcast with you. And they will want to listen to. They're gonna be like, oh, yeah, that's different.

Cristina: Oh, yeah, that's different. Yeah.

Jack: Well, that's different. We can listen to a podcast and then they'll grab your hand.

Cristina: Really? They're gonna grab. They're gonna be holding hands?

Jack: Yes. And they're gonna share the headphones with a complete stranger. Yeah.

Cristina: What?

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: That's horrible. That's so horrible.

Jack: I don't know why it's horrible if the person doesn't want it, but once you explain it to listen to a podcast, I'll be like, okay, that's different. Grab.

Cristina: We live in a zombie apocalypse. That person can be a zombie.

Jack: Yeah, sure. It's totally fine.

Cristina: That's fine. I don't know. He might be carrying the disease. That's virus. Yes.

Jack: Is it a virus? We could call it a virus.

Cristina: It's a super virus. Is he gonna turn people into zombies? Eventually, man.

Jack: A strain is gonna do it. It's just evolving so rapidly.

Cristina: Yeah. So eventually we'll have zombies here.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Okay. So last time you were here talking about nature and how people used to explain it with different myths, and one of them was very interesting, which was Loki's son being able to imprint on the planet with one foot, even though he has eight, but for some reason, one foot touched the ground and left a mark, and we thought that was really hilarious. Well, that wasn't hilarious. How he was born was really hilarious. Remember that story?

Jack: Yes. But it was kind of funny that he would imprint on the ground and then. Or not imprint, but he would leave a print on the ground and then Gods that would, in theory, ride this f****** horse, fit inside the hole that it's.

Cristina: Well, Loki can turn into different things. Why can't the gods? I guess, you know, they turn. They all turn into raccoons or something. I don't know. But Loki does have amazing powers. And yeah, he turned into a horse, a female horse. To have sex with a horse, to have a baby. Which was a giant eight legged horse.

Jack: Right. So because him becoming a horse and then f****** a horse doesn't equal horse baby because he's a God.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Him f******. Or I guess getting f***** by her. Because keep in mind he's not doing the f******. He doesn't like to f*** horses. He likes to get f***** by horses.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Big difference.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Mad.

Cristina: He's half God if you look at his DNA.

Jack: Half God.

Cristina: Yes. Or maybe people are unsure what his mother was. His dad was for sure a giant.

Jack: Right. Which isn't a God.

Cristina: Which isn't a God. And then his mom may or may not be a God. I think she may be a God because of how strange his babies are. And like the three.

Jack: The eight legged freak and his powers.

Cristina: And his powers.

Jack: Like what explains the powers if it ain't a God?

Cristina: Well, there is one story where a giant shape shifts into a falcon, which. And I don't think I've read a story about a God. Shapeshift thing. Yeah. So that might be a giant power. A power for the giants is shapeshifting.

Jack: Right. But that's not his only power.

Cristina: No, well, that's his only like main power. I don't know what his other powers are. He's cunning. They always say he's a cunning trickster. Like I don't know if that's a power, but.

Jack: Okay, that's weird. So he doesn't have like he's. There's no sign of him having other God like powers. I feel like he does like super strength. But that could be a giant thing.

Cristina: That could be a giant thing too. Like, how do you. Which side do you put it towards?

Jack: So what you're telling me is he would in theory just get smacked down by one of the gods of Asgard?

Cristina: Definitely.

Jack: Like way too easily. But he's basically like Batman to the other f****** Justice League members. Like he's too witty to be beat by just their muscles.

Cristina: The only reason I think his mom is probably a God is because he has a special pact with Odin. And I don't think Odin would have made any type of pact with a giant because their hate for giants is ridiculous.

Jack: They're racist.

Cristina: They're very racist. The gods hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate giants. So I don't. I can't imagine that Odin would be like, okay, we'll make this deal together, or whatever happened.

Jack: But Odin likes Loki.

Cristina: I wouldn't say he likes him.

Jack: He likes him more than other giants.

Cristina: He lets him in Asgard because he must be half. That's why I think he's also half giant. I mean, half God. Because only gods hang out in Asgard and he. They have huge problem with giants.

Jack: Except Valkyries hang out in Asgard.

Cristina: Valkyries might be a type of God, so.

Jack: Because I remember specifically on that episode we were debating whether that was the case.

Cristina: Yeah, I don't remember because I know there's also. There's two types of gods, actually. I didn't know there's like two God race.

Jack: There's God and demigods.

Cristina: I don't know where the other gods live, but they live on. They have their own realm because, you know, there's nine realms.

Jack: Yeah, something like that.

Cristina: And, and I think they've been in war and stuff, but I don't really know the backstory to any of that.

Jack: Gods with gods.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So, but kind of like gods with giants.

Cristina: Yeah, Gods and giants which then later.

Jack: Got turned into Greek mythologies.

Cristina: Titans versus the gods which came first, Greek or Norse?

Jack: Norse.

Cristina: Norse for sure.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Okay. I don't know. That's true. But we don't even know all the stories of Norse because it was all written by Christians. So we have the. Whatever came out from that. We don't know what the original stories were, what they truly, truly, truly were believing in. These are just.

Jack: Who, the Norse.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Oh, they stole from Hinduism.

Cristina: Oh, okay. But like the stories that they have now are the Christianized version. Sort of.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Because they went around writing everything for everyone else because they were the writers. They. Well, you know, they had written language, I guess the Christians and whatever.

Jack: Yeah, yeah.

Cristina: So Loki is probably half God anyway. Loki, I think is a God. Half God at least. Because his children are so strange. Like the eight legged horse. I think if he was just a giant, his children would be more normal. Well, maybe not the eight legged horse one. That's a bad example because he was with a horse. But with the other children he has, he had them with a giant or most of them. He did have some kids with a God. His wife is a God and they had, I think one or two sons. People aren't really sure and they seem normal, like normal people. So like, like gods like gods? Yeah, like gods. There was no weird descriptions about those children that he had with his wife.

Jack: The.

Cristina: But with the giant there was very weird children. Very weird. Which is. He has three children with his wife. Not with a wife, with the giant. He has three children with the giant, which are a wolf, a snake and a goddess. Her name is Hel, but she's not a normal goddess. If you look at her like, her description is, she's half alive and half dead. So there's something weird about her too, in appearance.

Jack: But she's not a giant.

Cristina: No, she's a goddess. But she happens to look very odd. And I think it's because. It's because of whatever. Loki is just being a God. Having sex with something that's not a God. Would it make something strange like that?

Jack: Yeah. I didn't think about this before, but I guess his banging of things equals the giant, because he's a giant. So if you banged the normal snake, his giantness made a giant snake as a result. It wasn't his godness, it was his giantness that made a giant snake.

Cristina: Yes, but he was having sex with the giant. So my other thing is that maybe he was also a giant snake while he was having sex with her.

Jack: The snake was giant.

Cristina: No, his child is giant.

Jack: Yes. But the snake he was having sex.

Cristina: With, he wasn't having sex with the snake. He was having sex with a giant.

Jack: And that led to a snake.

Cristina: Yes, which I'm saying.

Jack: He was a snake.

Cristina: He was a snake. Yes, that's what I'm thinking. Oh, s***. He's a shapeshifter.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: He has a wolf baby and a snake baby and they're both giants. But he could turn into animals.

Jack: But the time he be.

Cristina: He had a horse with a giant horse.

Jack: So he actually got f***** by a horse that time.

Cristina: Yes, that was giant. A giant horse. And he was a giant.

Jack: He's just into. He's like giant pansexual.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: He loves whatever. Yeah. Or get f***** by.

Cristina: I mean, he still has babies with his goddess, but he doesn't love her or anything. Like, he's like. He gets bored of her and that's why he finds the giants who have.

Jack: And she's like half dead, isn't she?

Cristina: No, that's his child that's half dead. Oh. His wife is normal. She's completely normal. She's probably a very kind God. There's not much about her, but she's important in the. In Ragnarok.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Or not Ragnarok. In his binding before that happens.

Jack: Right. So Loki shape shifts and then flux. Giants.

Cristina: Yes. Well, one giant. Well, yes, two giants, so yeah, giants. Yes, he loves giants. Okay.

Jack: And he has three giants.

Cristina: Three giants.

Jack: Wolf, horse, snake.

Cristina: Yes. He had three giant babies, a giant wolf, a giant snake and a giant horse. Yes. And these three children though, that he has with the giant, are predicted to be part of the end of the world. Which is Ragnarok.

Jack: Which is prophesied.

Cristina: Yeah, which is prophesied. So then Odin takes them and separates them. I don't know why.

Jack: Because the prophecy is against Odin.

Cristina: Yes, I know that part. Why didn't he just murder them? His plan is very strange because for the wolf he can grow forever. So they keep trying to chain him up. They keep him in Asgard with the other gods to just keep chaining him up. And he keeps breaking out of it because he keeps growing. And eventually they do trick him into getting chained up by a magical chain made from a dwarf. He bites off a God's hand while they do that, though. That's pretty cool. I mean, maybe not cool like that God lives with one hand now. But I'm sure it could grow back.

Jack: Probably.

Cristina: I don't know. It's weird that he wouldn't grow it back, but I guess he doesn't feel like growing it back.

Jack: Maybe he can't. Maybe it's kind of like God standards of like, what is Superman in his home planet if not just another normal dude. Oh, so like to us they're gods.

Cristina: But like around each other they're like.

Jack: They're normal.

Cristina: Normal. That's why Oren only has one eye.

Jack: Like. Yeah. Compared to us they're gods.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But they still have like weaknesses and s***.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Around each other they're just people. It's comparatively. God.

Cristina: Yes. Yeah, so they're pretty normal. They get hurt and stuff because that guy gets his friggin hand ripped off. But then they do bond.

Jack: What's weird about Ragnarok is the fact that Odin is the reason it happens through his actions. Trying to stop it. That's sort of the loop there.

Cristina: He should have murdered these children.

Jack: No, it wouldn't work.

Cristina: It wouldn't work.

Jack: It wouldn't work. It would somehow feed into the plan.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: I actually think the attempt at killing them is also part of the plan.

Cristina: He doesn't though. I think the only one, he's. I guess you could say he did. I'm not sure. Because when he throwed. Threw out the snake out of the world and it ends up on Earth, like, was he thinking that like throwing him out would kill the snake. Like, was that the only child he actually tried to kill? And it just survived its fall and then just kept growing?

Jack: I don't know.

Cristina: Okay. But that's one of the things he did, was throw him there on the world. What's it's called?

Jack: Midgard.

Cristina: Midgard. Us. Our planet. I think that's a cooler name than Earth. Midgard. Yeah, I like that.

Jack: But an Asgard is cooler than heaven. Yeah, but it's just cuz we're used to hearing it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: If we lived in Midgard, like Earth, that's cool.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: But yeah. No, I believe that any step Odin takes, kind of fits into the plan one way or another.

Cristina: Yeah. He just doesn't understand how.

Jack: Doesn't understand how at all.

Cristina: That's why he's always fighting it. But it's gonna happen no matter what.

Jack: Oh, okay. Here's the problem. Here's the problem. We as people get told the story of Ragnarok and of Norse mythology. And how all that plays out after we have the full picture.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: We have to think about it from before the entire story was written and happened. Which happens in the time that Odin sees into the future. That's why he doesn't have an eye. It was part of a trade or some s***.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And in seeing into the future, he saw the result. And he knew who would be involved, but he didn't know how. And ever since, every step he takes seems to feed into it. So he almost becomes like the perpetuator of his own demise, trying to stop it.

Cristina: Ragnarok hasn't happened yet. Just to let you know. It's not. It hasn't happened yet. We're still living pre Ragnarok. Because once it happens, everything is going to be destroyed. All the nine realms and all that stuff.

Jack: That's weird. I thought Ragnarok already happened.

Cristina: Nope. It's the future. It's. Yeah, it's the future. It's like in the end of Christian.

Jack: No, that makes sense. I thought the idea was that after Ragnarok happened, that's how we ended up with the world the way it is. Without gods interacting with us.

Cristina: Really?

Jack: Yeah, I thought that's. That's what happened. The result of Ragnarok was a bunch of gods were dead. And humans then got to flourish successfully without the oppression of the Asgardians.

Cristina: Oh, no, no. I don't know. No, because they're still collecting souls and stuff for their army.

Jack: We call that heaven now. No, no, that happened already.

Cristina: No, that's weird. That's happening right now. The Valkyries are coming here to collect souls for their army.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: It's still.

Jack: Okay, so.

Cristina: So Ragnarok hasn't happened yet.

Jack: So Ragnarok hasn't happened yet.

Cristina: Which is probably a Christian twist on the who. They love that type of apocalyptic ending. They did it for the Bible.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Has Jesus coming back and whatever.

Jack: So the question is, did Ragnarok originally happen already in Norse mythology? And then we inherited the earth, but Christianity got a hold of the texts, rewrote them, and when it re entered the remainder of Norse mythology as a reframing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It got pushed into the ending the way that the New Testament suggests the apocalypse would happen. Because they are the same thing. Ragnarok is Apocalypsis from the Bible.

Cristina: It's impossible to tell, I think because they didn't have their stories written down beforehand.

Jack: Created by the Christians to begin with.

Cristina: Yeah. So it's hard. So.

Jack: But Loki is the one perpetuating all of Ragnarok to some degree. He plays a million different roles that push this story forward.

Cristina: Ragnarok doesn't begin. I mean, Loki doesn't begin Ragnarok. The beginning of Ragnarok happens when the snake lets go of his tail.

Jack: Why would he do that?

Cristina: Why would he do that?

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: I have no idea. He's ready to destroy the world because for some reason, once that happens, then all the other his siblings and Loki are free from where they're kept. They're somehow also able strong enough to get out of their traps or whatever. That's the beginning of Ragnarok when the snake lets go of his tail. And that's pretty cool. That's not pretty cool. That's whatever. Whatever. Yes.

Jack: Right.

Cristina: And the world serpent, he has a few stories in Norse mythology that they still have, which are always against Thor because they are mortal enemies, his son and himself. Thor is not his.

Jack: Oh, not Thor. Got you. Got you.

Cristina: Thor and the snake.

Jack: Because Thor and the snake.

Cristina: Yeah, yeah. Because he's. They're destined to kill each other.

Jack: Which is part of Ragnarok.

Cristina: That's part of Ragnarok. Yes. Because the snake. Well, in Ragnarok, he's going to poison. Once he lets go of his toe. I guess he's like just hoarding a bunch of venom inside him. And then when he lets go, it all explodes out of him and poisons the sky and the ocean. Maybe that's why Ragnarok begins at that time.

Jack: Could be. Probably.

Cristina: And then the poison is what kills Thor. And after Thor kills him, he gets He. He still dies because of poison.

Jack: Thor.

Cristina: Thor. Yes.

Jack: Got you.

Cristina: Yeah, they. They know like who's gonna die. Like everything's already ran, so it's interesting. Like it's still gonna happen.

Jack: That's how prophecy works, I guess.

Cristina: Yes, yes. It's like time traveling in a weird way.

Jack: It was literally time traveling. He was looking forward in time to see exactly what was gonna happen.

Cristina: Yeah, you know, his. Everything that's happening, like, like whatever. Like if he wanted to know where you were, he could see you. That's kind of like God, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jack: He is the God. God.

Cristina: He is the God because Loki in one of the stories before he gets captured to be trapped forever. He turned into a fish trying to hide that way. But Odin saw him, so they caught him. There's a story where Thor and Loki are traveling through the giants world for some reason. I'm not sure where their aim is, but they end up meeting a giant who has a castle, I guess. And they're. They have a competition with the giant and the giant, I think. I don't know who starts the contest. I think Loki actually starts the contest after the giant makes fun of the gods saying like, oh, you guys aren't as great as you think you are. You're not as strong or you're not as whatever were much better. And so Loki starts off the competition saying he's the fastest eater and he competes with another giant on eating the most food and of course loses. It's such a weird competition. But yeah, they each like. And they have to be in the end of the table and reach the middle with all the food and the other like he was able to eat all of it, but there was still leftovers like bones and you know, things you wouldn't normally. But the giant ate everything off his side.

Jack: That's very weird.

Cristina: That's very weird. But the giant actually was cheating because these weren't really giants. I don't remember what this giant was, but there was a guy that was with him who decided to race a giant to see who's faster. And the giant kept winning. And it turned out he was Thoth itself.

Jack: Who, the giant?

Cristina: Yes, yes. He was running against Thaw, but he couldn't win because it's so.

Jack: It was the embodiment of thinking.

Cristina: Yes. I can't remember what Loki was against, but it was something ridiculous like that, of course. And then Thor had two. I remember only like two things he had to do. One was to drink from one of the giants cups or whatever and he Just. He couldn't drink it all. But the giant said that he was actually drinking their lake water. And he was worried that he was gonna drink it all because he was doing really well, even though he wasn't able to do it. And then the second thing that he had to do was to lift the cat. And the cat was actually the world snake disguised as a cat. So he couldn't do it, but he did a really good job. And the giant was still really impressed by him. But he, like Thor, I think, pretty much destroyed the place while he was doing all these things. So the giant was like, you better not return to here ever again. I'm impressed. But never come here again.

Jack: So the world snake could morph.

Cristina: I think the giants did that to the world snake. I don't think the world snake can magically turn into a cat.

Jack: Interesting. So they. The world snake agreed to this.

Cristina: I don't know. He was probably minding his own business, living his life, and then the giant plucked him out somehow.

Jack: Right. Because you can see the World snake from everywhere at all times.

Cristina: On Earth?

Jack: On Earth, yeah.

Cristina: Yes. But I'm guessing these stories are before he was that big because he kept growing and became that big. But these could be before he was that big.

Jack: Right. Which is an unexplained amount of time. It's long from one point to the other.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: They are gods, and they live forever.

Cristina: Mm. There was another story with Thor and the World snake where Thor went fishing with an ox head and he caught the world snake and he hit him with his hammer, and they thought he killed the snake. But I'm assuming that was also another time where the snake wasn't big enough. Like, he wasn't his full size yet.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: And he obviously didn't die because he's in the Ragnarok story. But he thought he killed him in that story.

Jack: Giants never stop growing, period. All of them.

Cristina: I don't know if all giants are like that, but I know Loki's children that are giants are like that.

Jack: Maybe it's a combination of a God. And Loki would be the combination of.

Cristina: A God and a giant.

Jack: And a giant, yes.

Cristina: That's why I think he has weird children. Besides the one that he has with his. With his wife, who is a God. They had a normal God children, as far as I can tell.

Jack: And that's weird.

Cristina: That's weird. Yes, that is weird. Loki also has a daughter named Hel, which is a pretty normal daughter. Besides that, she looks half dead and half alive, and she collects some of the Some of the dead people, the ones that are the wicked ones and the ones that die from sickness and old age, they're not good enough for the. For Odin, who collects half of them, and I don't. Okay, what do I know about her? Well, I don't know much about her, except that they. One of the gods do visit her later on in the story when Loki ends up killing a God. They come to her to revive that. That God, hoping that she would let him back to Asgard. And she says, like, it's fine as long as you can make all the. Everything cry. As long as everything will cry. For this God, which is Baldur, is the God that he killed with a mistletoe. I don't know if you heard of that story.

Jack: No. Baldur is one of Odin's sons, isn't he?

Cristina: I think so. But Loki kills him, sort of. He was jealous of. He was jealous of Boulder because all the gods would. I don't know. They had fun with him because he's. He's pretty much. He's pretty much immune to everything because his mother. After he had a bad dream about dying or like he was gonna have a really painful death, like he prophesies in his nightmares or whatever. His mom, Freya. Was it Freya or Frigg?

Jack: Freya.

Cristina: It's Frigg. There is a Freya, but in this story, it's Frigg.

Jack: Freya's Odin's wife.

Cristina: Freya is not Odin's wife. Frigg is Odin's wife.

Jack: Freya is Freya.

Cristina: It's another God. Freya is another God.

Jack: Freyja is a whole other God.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: I thought Freya was Odin's wife.

Cristina: A lot of people confuse Freya and Frigg because Freya also has a God husband whose name is something similar to Odin, but it's not Odin. It's like Omud or something. I don't know. It starts with O, too, so they get confused, but they're not the same person. After Frigg finds out about Boulder's nightmares, she has all the living creatures promise to not hurt Boulder, except she forgot about the mistletoe. And Loki finds this out because it's. I don't know why she would be honest to anyone about this. It's like a really big deal. But he turns into an old lady and then asks her, hey, what's this guy's deal? He's immune to everything. And she's like, no, I forgot the mistletoe. It's so, like, so peaceful. It would never do anything it's innocent, Right? And, well, she was wrong. Well, I guess it was innocent. It's really. He got a blind God to throw the mistletoe at Boulder and then he died.

Jack: So it's like in making him immune to everything else, like a mistletoe becomes extra powerful.

Cristina: I guess. So he becomes allergic to the mistletoe. I guess that mistletoe really hated him, actually. Or maybe he turned the mistletoe. I'm thinking of the game is. What was it? It was arrow. Well, I don't know if the game is accurate, but it could have been on an arrow, the mistletoe. And then with the mistletoe in shot at him with the arrow that was poisoned with mistletoe. I guess it killed him. So he becomes allergic to mistletoe. It doesn't matter what the weapon is.

Jack: Because, like, yeah, it's literally kryptonite. It turned the mistletoe into kryptonite.

Cristina: Or maybe the mistletoe. Yeah, like I'm trying to understand. Like, it's very strange. The mistletoe didn't kill him. I would think the arrow killed him. But the mistletoe made. Weakened him. Yes. Weakened that spot. And then. So the arrow could actually hurt him.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: And then he passed away. Yes. And yes. And then the gods were pretty upset by Loki, but for some reason they weren't. That's not when they trapped him. That's not when they punished him. Right after that, he was a little. He just. He just goes out of control after that moment, I guess. But. And oh, back to his daughter Hel. They do ask. She says, okay, so if everyone cries for him, then it'll be fine. So they do. The gods do go around and asking everything, even the rock, even water. Like, everything has to cry for him. And everything does. Except for one giant. One old giant lady. She says no. She's like, I don't love him. I'm not going to cry for him. So he stays dead. And people think that that's probably. That was probably Loki in disguise.

Jack: Interesting. Yeah. Because Loki has this habit of being an old lady.

Cristina: Being an old lady. Oh, yeah. He was an old lady. Yeah. But an old giant lady this time. He turns into weird things, though. He's the most. He has the most fun with shapeshifting. I don't know if the other gods can shapeshift. I feel like they don't because none of them do it. But Loki sure does.

Jack: Maybe it is the power of giants.

Cristina: It could be. Could it be? There's not much said about h*** I think. But I do remember that, well, she doesn't have a key role in Ragnarok. Sort of like, they don't know if she's going to battle with the gods or the giants in the final battle. But she does end up escaping, like her brothers and Loki, out of their traps. She also gets out of her trap, which is their h*** version of whatever she's living in. She.

Jack: And that's a Helheim, right?

Cristina: Helheim, yeah. And it's her. All the dead people, the monsters. There's also monsters trapped in there, too. And the giants all go on a boat made out of dead finger nails. Dead fingers and dead nails. And that's the boat that Loki rides into. What's the place called? Asgard. To fight them, actually. I don't know if they end up there, but whatever. He rides there and then they fight. But that's his battleship. It's made out of fingers and toenails, and it's carrying all the dead and monsters that were in h***. But I don't know if she's on that boat, actually. I just know she left, and all the things that were with her end up on that boat with him.

Jack: So chances are, she was there, too.

Cristina: Yeah, there's chances, yeah. But, like. But there's no. Like, there's no description of her. No stories of her fighting or, like, what happens to her afterwards. Because, you know from these other stories that we know how they die, which I forgot to mention. How the wolf dies. Well, not dies, but his point in Ragnarok. Because Ragnarok is so awesome. Yes. He's the one that kills Odin.

Jack: The wolf.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: The wolf kills Odin.

Cristina: Yes. And then Odin's son cuts off the wolf's paws. So I'm guessing he still lives. He just has no paws now.

Jack: Interesting. Interesting. So, as Odin and Loki are equal but opposite, their children are destined to fight each other.

Cristina: Yes. Well, Odin's fighting Loki's children, child. I don't know who Loki's fighting. He's fighting a God, but I don't know if he's related to Odin, but maybe.

Jack: So they don't fight each other, but their children fight each other, which is Thor and the world snake.

Cristina: Thor and the world serpent.

Jack: Thor and the world serpent fight each other.

Cristina: Yes. And Odin and the wolf.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Vanir, I think, is his name. Vanir?

Jack: That's cool.

Cristina: That's cool.

Jack: Yeah, Vanir.

Cristina: Vanir. Yeah. Vanir. And Hel. Come on. I mean, Hel, I guess, doesn't sound as cool. No, Helheim sounds Cool, though.

Jack: Helheim sounds out. Yeah, it sounds like somebody's name.

Cristina: Yeah. And Helheim is in Niflihem. Niflim. Niflam.

Jack: Niff.

Cristina: Do you know that place? I think that's where the frozen giants are at.

Jack: No idea.

Cristina: Well, the frozen giants, I think is also on board with the giants and all that stuff.

Jack: Yes, Frost giants.

Cristina: Frost giants, yes. Yes. The first story you talked about was pretty funny. And there are other stories that are as funny as that story. And I want to talk about those stories. Which is. The first one is. I'll call it the Tug of War. I don't know if it's actually called that. Maybe it's called that. I don't know. And it starts off as a normal story of Loki just getting in trouble. He somehow a giant catches him and he's like, imma kill you unless you bring me a goddess here to be with or whatever. And so Loki does that. He does that. And then the other gods find out and they're like, you better get her or we're going to kill you. So he turns into a. So he turns into a falcon and carries her back to Asgard. And while he's doing that, the giant turns into a eagle. And when he gets close to him to towards Asgard, they burn it up and he dies in the fire like a firewall or something. And then his daughter comes there to get some type of payment for losing her father. And one of the things that she demands is for the gods to make her laugh. So Loki decides that he's got this. Which I guess he does have this because he.

Jack: He's practiced stand up comedy his whole life. And now his moment to shine has arrived.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Loki's like, take a seat. The lights go down, spotlight on Loki. And he's like, all right. Knock, knock.

Cristina: I wish. No, actually this way. The way what really happened is. Well, you'll see. And you'll tell me if maybe he should have just told the joke. Actually he might for his own sake should have probably just tried to tell a joke. But he's into weird things. We gotta remember he's into weird things. Alright.

Jack: Yeah, he's an eccentric.

Cristina: Yes. Okay, so what he does is he gets a goat with a long beard and he ties his balls to that goat's beard. And then while that goat tries to run away one way, he pulls the other way. And as painful as that is, it makes the giant laugh.

Jack: Fair enough. Look, Jackass was successful.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And who.

Cristina: The original jackass.

Jack: Occam's razor Says everything is normal and that's the most likely outcome. Whatever's most likely likely is probably what's going on. And as above, so below.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So we like stupid s***.

Cristina: Why wouldn't giants.

Jack: Why wouldn't giants love stupid s***? God love stupid s*** too.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Thor is well known to be a troll.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like he trolls really hard. Odin trolls all the time. They think of him as serious. But then you look at some stupid f****** Odin stories and he's a troll too. They're all just bored half the time. Doing things for fun.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And so Loki, the most open minded, less rule follow Y1. Of course he's gonna do the craziest s***.

Cristina: So crazy.

Jack: You know he jackasses with it. Yes. But also it hurt Steve O. And he never stopped. I guess he stopped drugs and just turned his self abuse into more comedy.

Cristina: Yes. I wonder if any of them have tried this trick though.

Jack: Maybe.

Cristina: Maybe. Oh my gosh. Go look it up after the show. Yeah. So what do you think? That story funnier, less funny? I feel like it's probably lots of people's favorite, but I think the horse one is my favorite.

Jack: I think whether between doing stand up, a short stand up routine and this one act visually in person, this is more appealing. That wins over stand up. Now to tell the story repeatedly. Stand up would have been better. But he wasn't thinking like how is this story going to be told for the rest of eternity? He was thinking like, how do I get her to laugh? Yeah, he's absurd. So he did something absurd story wise. I also think that's kind of interesting.

Cristina: You think the nuts.

Jack: Yeah, it's also like. I mean the horse one is pretty crazy, but he also f***** a snake.

Cristina: He did not f*** snake. A giant skin a snake while f******.

Jack: That's weird. I guess it is the weirdest that he turned into a horse to get f***** by a horse. Not even to f*** a horse.

Cristina: Exactly. That's weirder.

Jack: But then the question is, is that weirder than turning into a snake so that a giant f**** you? He's a snake. He doesn't have a p****.

Cristina: But it somehow worked. Maybe he was a snake with a p****.

Jack: Do snakes have penises? Whatever. He's. He's either. He's probably just getting f***** by a giant.

Cristina: Yeah, I guess none of that's weird. He's into things and that's normal.

Jack: Apparently for them. I guess we don't have to understand the gods.

Cristina: No, he's just. He cheated on his wife. That's so wrong.

Jack: Did he does she think it's cheating?

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: Or she just like, whatever you f*** stuff?

Cristina: Yeah, maybe. Maybe because she does. She's there in the end, before Ragnarok. She's with him right now as he's trapped.

Jack: Is there. So we don't know when Ragnarok is.

Cristina: When the snake lets go of his h***. That's all we know.

Jack: Right? Do we know when that's gonna happen?

Cristina: No idea. No. Or. I don't know for sure. I do not know.

Jack: I mean, I don't either.

Cristina: Yes. So the boulder thing doesn't get him in trouble, but soon after, the gods are having a party. Well, maybe not a party. Maybe it's to mourn for Baldr. I'm not sure. And they don't invite him to it. But then he gets angry and he's like, odin, what about that oath we have or whatever, that we're like, maybe they're siblings or whatever, or have a blood tie. That's from that story that people got the idea that he. That he and Odin, that there's some kind of special connection between the two. And so they let him in. And then he just starts insulting everyone, every single God. And I think that's really what ruined everything. But the last person he insults is Thor's wife. And he kind of hints that they had an affair. So I thought that was interesting. But she was like. Instead of, like, being angry or anything, she changes the subject. So there might have been an affair.

Jack: Interesting. Interesting. So there is now. Thor's wife is not supposed to bang everything.

Cristina: No. But Thor cheated on her, too. He wasn't very faithful, so.

Jack: Which means fair game.

Cristina: Yeah. So it might have been a revenge thing with Loki.

Jack: D***. But look, the f*** is like uncle or some s***. Whatever the f*** Loki is to him, his dad's archenemy.

Cristina: His dad's.

Jack: I mean, I guess they're not related.

Cristina: His dad, that he has a pact with. Not with Thor, so. But in that party, though, we find out that the thing he really fears Loki is Thor. Thor doesn't fear any of the gods. He fears Thor. Thor gets angry and kicks him out of the party. And he leaves. He's like, I'm. I'm only leaving because Thor.

Jack: Why does he fear Thor?

Cristina: He kills, like, nothing. He has a hammer that just, I don't know, RIP S***. Yeah. And he does. He does all the time.

Jack: Yeah. Thor is in the movies of, like, you know, Marvel Cinematic Universe or whatever. F***. Is conveyed as a good guy. But in his stories, he's really Neutral. Like really neutral. Like he could just do good or bad at any given moment for no reason.

Cristina: He's only, I think, like, seen as.

Jack: A God because, like, the son of Odin. That's it.

Cristina: Yes. But because the Norse see strength as the good, probably. Like, that's what good is.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Bad is being a coward. Good is being strong or whatever.

Jack: You know, the entirety of Norse mythology. Minus. I believe two gods are considered neutral or bad. That's it.

Cristina: That's it.

Jack: That's it. There's two gods. I don't remember. One of them is supposed to be what became a Jesus, and then the other one is what became Samson. And those are the only two beings that even in Greek mythology. Because also the Greek gods are considered neutral. Minus. Two beings that came from Norse mythology, and they are considered to be the only beings in all of the, you know, transcendent universe that are good. Everything else is neutral. All the gods are neutral.

Cristina: All right. But Loki's wife doesn't sound like a bad person.

Jack: Neutral.

Cristina: Oh, I guess she's neutral. Okay.

Jack: Yeah. They're either neutral or bad.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Like, Odin isn't bad, although he does crooked s*** all the time. But so does Thor.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: They're not actively doing malicious things, though.

Cristina: Like they didn't murder Loki's children, even though they were predicted to bring the end of days.

Jack: Loki is also, ironically, not considered bad.

Cristina: He's considered neutral. He helped them out quite a few times. Yeah. Sometimes he did start things.

Jack: He swings just like the rest of them.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Between neutral and bad.

Cristina: Yeah. It's whatever he feels like it.

Jack: Exactly. All the gods. Most of the gods are like that.

Cristina: Yeah. Except when he killed that one God. That's pushing the line.

Jack: A couple of gods that are considered bad, though.

Cristina: Really?

Jack: Yes, there's a couple of gods. Not many.

Cristina: Most are neutral in Norse mythology. Yes.

Jack: And Greek mythology. Although in Christianity, they are all good all the time. Everything except for the devil. Lucifer.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Which. Yeah, it's really black and white. There's no neutral. It's either you're the good guys or you the bad guys.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: While all the other things kind of blurred the lines there.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But there's a couple of gods, and I believe Boulder was one of them. I believe Boulder's immunity also made him hustle.

Cristina: I don't know. From what I remember checking out. No, from what I know, he was loving and. Or all the gods loved him and all the things loved him. That's why they all promised not to hurt him.

Jack: The gods don't care.

Cristina: But the things. Everything from all nine worlds.

Jack: Oh, really?

Cristina: Yes. They were the ones that cried for him as well when he died. It wasn't just the gods. It was everything. Everything. The rocks.

Jack: Interesting. So he's not the only God who is immortal then. Not in that fashion, where he's like, not human to his own gods. Because there was a God. I don't know where the f*** I heard the story, but there was a God who. His lack of being like the other gods is what made him hostile in the first place.

Cristina: That sounds like Loki, because he is kind of hostile, I guess.

Jack: And he isn't like the other gods.

Cristina: He isn't like the other s***, maybe it could have been exactly like Loki.

Jack: Could be. Could be.

Cristina: And that's why after that party, he runs away. Because he knows, like, he went too far. And they catch him. And now he's is tied up, I think, in somewhere on earth. He's tied up somewhere on Earth? Loki? Yeah. In a cave. In a dark cave somewhere. And his wife is with him. They have him tied up with her children. They took out their intestines and wrapped it around him. I don't know why her children had to die. Understand his being part of Ragnarok. But her children are innocent. They had nothing to do with Ragnarok. But I guess they're the only thing strong enough to hold Loki down because they tied it around him.

Jack: Loki's wife's children?

Cristina: Yes, their children. It's still Loki's children. But those children were not meant for the end of the world. But they. So they killed them and put the intestines around him. So he's tied up with that. And then there's a snake above his head that's dripping poison on him to keep him weak as punishment. It's just a torture. It's just torturing him for all the crap that he's done.

Jack: Like a Japanese water torture.

Cristina: Yeah, I guess.

Jack: Make a little drop of water, hit his forehead for days.

Cristina: Yeah. So his wife is there, though, to hold a bucket over his head to collect as much of that poison away from him. And then every time it fills up, she takes it away to let out the poison. And that's when he does get hit with poison. And then that story explains why there's.

Jack: Earthquakes when he's getting hit by the drops.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Freaks out and the earth shakes.

Cristina: Yep, got it. So that actually fits into the last episode. I didn't know about that story, but now I do. And it's really. There is one more story that I think is Funny. Ish. Or I. I'm assuming it was funny back then. It could be still funny now. I'll tell you anyway and see if you think it's funny. But I don't think it compares to the other two stories I just told you, which is that in this story, he and Thor have to cross dress because there's a giant who has Thor's hammer. Somehow, Thor lost his hammer and a giant got a hold of it and.

Jack: And to get it back, you cross dress.

Cristina: Yes, because the. The giant wants Fria and he'll give them the hammer. So they decide to dress Thor up as Fria. He's not happy about that, but he has to, because it somehow works in the plan that he has to do this.

Jack: Right.

Cristina: And then Loki, for some reason, part of this plan. I think this is his plan.

Jack: Loki's an idiot. He could have just become Freya.

Cristina: He could have, but I think what he wanted to do was dress up as a May lady, so that's what he did. He. He also cross dressed. He could totally use his transforming powers. But no, he was like, I want to dress up like a lady as a man. So they do that. And as Thor is getting married to the giant, the giant calls the hammer, because then the union is made and they're. They're married once the hammer joins, for some reason. I don't know how that's part of the ceremony, but that's part of this ceremony, and it lands on Thor's lap, and then Thor murders the giant, and then he murders all the other giants, and then they go back home. Hilarious story.

Jack: Super funny. Yep. Seems legit. It seems like something Thor would do. He just murders.

Cristina: He just murders. He really does.

Jack: Yeah, he doesn't really need to.

Cristina: But the cross dressing is supposed to be the funny part of the story, so.

Jack: What a solution.

Cristina: Yeah, it is kind of funny because Loki can totally just like, turn into Freya.

Jack: Yeah. It was just a real pointless mission they went on.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Like, he could have legitimately become Freya.

Cristina: Yes. And just had Thor with him. Because he still needs to grab the hammer.

Jack: Yes. It makes total sense that Freya would show up. In fact, it looks like Thor brought Freya.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: In literal exchange for his hammer.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But no, Loki was like, better idea.

Cristina: Better idea.

Jack: We both cross dress.

Cristina: So ridiculous. Like, before the actual wedding, there was, like, a bunch of things that Thor was doing that was obviously something wrong with Fria. Like the giant, like.

Jack: Like sketchy s***.

Cristina: Yeah. Like, he ate too much and he drank too much, and the giant Was like, this is very strange.

Jack: I would love the Norse mythology sitcom where hijinks happen all the time. And then this episode, one of the best episodes. Because he's at the party, he's drinking more than he should, and, you know, they notice. Oh, man, your wife's got, like, a real thick mustache today.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like, all those corny, funny hijinks.

Cristina: Yes, it's exactly like that, though. It's like that wolf story of, like, the Little Red Riding Hood with the wolf. And he's like, why did you use your eyes that big? Or why are your hands that big? And.

Jack: Yeah, that should totally.

Cristina: Giant is doing that with Thor is like, hey, why is his eyes so dark and scary? And Loki's like, oh, it's because he. He's so in love with. She's so in love with you. Like, Loki was coming up with the excuses of why Thor was obviously not. Obviously not a lady.

Jack: I guess it's like, this giant has to be a little blind, too, to not be like, that's clearly Thor in a dress or some s***.

Cristina: I know.

Jack: But, like, great. He could, man. Loki genius.

Cristina: Yes, she is a genius.

Jack: Anyways, we are out of time here. That's definitely.

Cristina: So which is your favorite of the three stories?

Jack: I think the horse f******. It's crazy because you have to become a female horse to get laid by a horse and then be pregnant and then ride that pregnancy out.

Cristina: He could have definitely. Well, I guess that's the only option.

Jack: The funniest part is riding the pregnancy out. Yes, that's the funniest part. It's not the banging a horse. He banged a bunch of s***. No, whatever he likes to take, he likes to be the receiving end sometimes.

Cristina: And he actually held a horse in him for however long it takes. A horse. Magic horse.

Jack: Could have been millions of years by our standard. Yeah, we don't know how time works over there.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: He could have just been pregnant for infinities, living a life as a wife to a horse.

Cristina: To a horse. Yeah.

Jack: To giant horse for infinities.

Cristina: Yep.

Jack: And then had Horace baby.

Cristina: There was some sort of mutant somehow just okay with all this. I don't know. I'm thinking that that whole bucket thing is a little revenge of her own, because she gets to watch him suffer still.

Jack: She gets to be there.

Cristina: Yeah. When she takes out the bucket, like, she could eventually now, like, come up with some other thing to cover his head so he doesn't get hit in the head. But she's like, nah, this is the best moment. She feels so good.

Jack: It's so unbelievable.

Cristina: She just waits for that bucket to get filled and she's like, oh, I can'.

Jack: So easy to just build a little scoop that grabs it and it drips across.

Cristina: Like, it's so easy somewhere else. Yeah, yeah.

Jack: Just divert the flow.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Super simple.

Cristina: But she's like, no, Yeah, I want to see this.

Jack: Well, I mean, they're kinky. They're probably into it. She's all excited about it. He's probably into it, too. You know, they don't give a. Oh, my God. Maybe their bonding time.

Cristina: Oh, yeah.

Jack: Fascinating. Thor's weird. Loki's weird. Odin's weird. Norse mythology in general is weird. Religion is weird.

Cristina: Religion is weird.

Jack: Yeah, it is what it is.

Cristina: That was a great episode, though. Yeah.

Jack: Fascinating. I like. I love knowing about. I like Norse mythology and Greek mythology more than I like Christianity. I guess Christianity is just outplayed.

Cristina: It's just boring to you.

Jack: It is. It's so boring. While Greek and Norse mythology are, like, weird and eccentric, you know, they're really exciting. I think I've heard too much Christianity in my life.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But, like, also, I'm not that interested in Hinduism either. I think there's just something really interesting about Greek and Norse mythology and the.

Cristina: Way those cats behave and all that.

Jack: Yeah, it's really different. Yeah, it's very exotic and different from other religions. It's like a bunch of chaos happening. Just random s*** happening all the time. But, yeah, definitely find that interesting. But if you guys enjoyed this, this episode, this discussion, you can find other things of this nature. You can find the previous part of this when we're talking about when we stumbled upon Loki, talking about, you know, nature and whatnot. Yeah, you can find that last episode, but you can also find in a bunch of other episodes, random crap that we touch about gods and religions, myths.

Cristina: And myths and crap and all that stuff.

Jack: Yeah, all of the above. You can find all that stuff on the official website. Great thoughts.info or on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere you get podcasts.

Cristina: And you can reach us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and TikTok at just combo podcast.

Jack: Yes. And remember to subscribe and Reiter and reveal the show if you feel so inclined.

Cristina: And let someone who might like this show know about it.

Jack: Yes, word of mouth matters. As I always tell you at the beginning and at the end of the show, if you find somebody and you kindly ask them to listen to a podcast, you give them all the space they need. You. You, you know, you don't Want to invade personal space.

Cristina: That's disrespectful. Six feet of space in the zone. Yeah.

Jack: You need a social distance. And when you. Social distance and you tell somebody, hey, I know it's lonely these days, alone all the time. Can't interact too much. Well, I can. I can show you podcasts that you feel like you're in the room with these people hanging out safely and tell them about this podcast and they'll love it. And they'll be like, thank you for respecting my personal space and I appreciate you introducing me to this show.

Cristina: Of course.

Jack: Well, where I'll learn about Norse mythology.

Cristina: Yes, you will, I think at least learn about Loki. Learn about Loki and his children. And his children. Yeah. He learned about a few things, definitely. And this show has been the Just Conversation podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening.

Jack: Bye. But now when you think about the message prior to this.

Cristina: What?

Jack: It kind of makes sense in a political kind of way.

Cristina: In a political type. What?

Jack: Yes. Because he's saying that they're kind of living in a veil of ignorance to some degree. We have hang ups. We're tightly wound and whatever.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And we don't want to let ourselves know more than we do. Where the f*** does he say that?

Cristina: He does not say that.

Jack: Left ear, hard to see the hang ups we have today. The hang ups are somewhere in there. But they don't really realize, though.

Cristina: Oh, no. They don't realize though that he's great. No. The next thing.

Jack: Lift your. Lift your left your lift yourself. Lift your. Lift your. Lift your lift your. Hard to see the hang ups we have today. But they don't realize this next verse. This next verse though, these bars. So the next verse has nothing to do. But they don't realize. They don't really realize. They don't really realize is them sort of. They don't understand. And then he says before that. That. Lift yourself upon your feet. Let's get it on. So, okay, we're beaten down.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And we can get up.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: We don't need anybody to extend the hand to get us up.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: He's. He argues against that, against the whole welfare system, against the whole. This is just very Kanye of him.

Cristina: Okay. Do it yourself.

Jack: He's saying you could pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

Cristina: Okay. Yes.

Jack: And then he says the state of mind you're in. I'll sing you some bars about that. And then he jumps into poopa. He's just saying you're full of s***. Everything you've got is excuses.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Your whole state of mind. Let me summarize it in these woke a** bars.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Poop.

Cristina: Yes, poop.

Jack: Yeah. He's saying you're full of s***. All of you are full of s***. That's a woke a** song. You just did it like a troll.

Cristina: Be any of the s***, no less. It's to your face.

Jack: It's actually poopa de whoop, not poop that you scoop.

Cristina: Okay?

Jack: So, yeah, pretty woke s***.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: I give him points as fire.

Cristina: About poop. About poop. Yeah. Good morning. Good morning. The Just Conversation podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by greatthoughts.info art by 0lupo and logo by Seth McAllister with social media managed by Amber Black.

April 16, 2021

Rambling 126: Mythologies About Nature

April 16, 2021/ GreyThoughts.Info

Where do mythologies come from? And do any of them accurately explain Earthly phenomena? Does any mythology unpack nature the way we unpack mythology? Answers to that and more on this episode!

The duo take to exploring the stories told by ancient civilizations in order to explain the reason for the existence of natural wonders. When the Gods get involved, events get weird and the origin of Jesus and Loki’s sexual ventures are revealed!

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed

Crater Lake
Devil’s Tower
Fairy Cycles
Aurora Borealis
Chinese Jesus
Solar Winds
Spirits
Greta Thunberg
The Original Volcano
The Legend of Zelda
Dragon Blood Tree
The Shelter of the Gods
Loki Horse Son

Art by IG @Zero_Lupo

Our Links:

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

+Transcript

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean? Welcome to Just Conversation, the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas and childish ways. I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And I'm Jack.

Cristina: And if you haven't yet, remember to hit that subscribe button to get notified the second new episodes are released.

Jack: Yes. And this show is most enjoyable with the listening partners, so be sure to go find someone that can listen with you, whether it be by force, whether it be by, you know, coercion. You bribe somebody. You bring bags of money.

Cristina: Money.

Jack: Bags of money. And be like, hey, you can listen to. You don't have to give them the money. It's got to trick them into taking the money.

Cristina: Trick them into taking the money and.

Jack: Trick them into thinking they're gonna take the money.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Yes, yes, yes.

Jack: And then they. They potentially listen to the podcast. Or you show them your gun. What, by any means necessary.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Obviously, you can't kill them because you need them to listen to the podcast. That's the point.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Like, I'm not saying don't throw somebody in the hole you've got in your basement and then just turn on the podcast. Like, I didn't say don't do that.

Cristina: You probably shouldn't do that.

Jack: You probably shouldn't do that. We don't condone kidnapping. But what you do in your private time has nothing to do with me.

Cristina: Yes. As long as we have listeners.

Jack: As long as we have listeners, like, look, you're the type of fan you are is more about you, less about us.

Cristina: We're just encouraging you to share.

Jack: Share the show. Share the show. How you do that. That's not.

Cristina: We don't need to know.

Jack: Yeah, don't blame us for it.

Cristina: Yes, don't blame us for that. I love the Irish mythology so much that I decided to talk a tiny bit. I want to talk a tiny bit about it. If you remember that we talked about how fairies were gods once upon a time, and they shrunk into fairies. So then in those stories, the Irish stories, the people of the story became giants. And one of those stories is about Finn McCool. He's a giant from Ireland. There's a giant from Scotland across from him that wanted to fight him. So he made a bridge to. Over there, and that's a. There's a picture of what that was. I mean, it became. Because he destroys the bridge or they destroy the bridge. If they fought, they destroyed the bridge. In one story, they fought, and he won. But in the second story, he dressed up. He saw the other giant, whose name is Ben, and he got scared, so his wife helped him and dressed him up as a baby. And then Ben saw Finn and was like, if that's the baby of the giant, then the giant must look so much bigger than me. And so he got scared, and when he ran away, he destroyed the bridge.

Jack: So the baby couldn't follow him.

Cristina: What? Finn didn't want to fight him. Why would he want to follow him? Finn dressed up as a baby because he didn't want to fight the giant.

Jack: The giant broke the bridge?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: In using it.

Cristina: In using it. I don't know how he destroyed the bridge. He just destroyed it with his hands. I don't know.

Jack: The giant crossed the bridge and then broke it.

Cristina: Broke the. He broke it when he went back home. He crossed it to see Finn or to look for Finn, and then he crossed it again, and then he destroyed it when he crossed the river.

Jack: Finn couldn't follow.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Okay.

Cristina: And Finn didn't want to fight him anyway because he was bigger. That other guy was bigger than him. Yeah, but. Yes. And I don't know. I don't think that story is true. I think the other giant, he told me, like, he doesn't believe it either. Like, what makes no sense about the story is why would he destroy the bridge the other giant made? If he's a scare. He's afraid of this giant. You know, Finn made the bridge, right? Then Ben saw this baby and then runs away, destroying the bridge. But Finn could make the bridge again. So that's. That's the giant's argument.

Jack: He's like, he was just scared at the moment.

Cristina: No. He's telling me. No. Ben is like, that's not true. Ben is a coward. He destroyed. He made it. He saw me, and then he destroyed it. But I don't know who to believe. I. I kind of do believe Ben, though. But, I don't know. Nice to imagine Finn dressed up as a baby.

Jack: That's a weird solution to a problem. Like, it makes sense, I guess. If they look at him and they're like, wow, that's a big baby. I can only imagine what the adults look like. Yeah, but, like, how genius of a plan to assume that they wouldn't just believe, wow, he's dressed like a baby.

Cristina: Yes. Like, what if. Like, what if he didn't know what he looked like? Like, that plan only works because he didn't. But if he asked around and was like, hey, how does this giant I'm gonna fight look like? And then they described that guy, or they pointed to that guy. Like, how embarrassing is it for that.

Jack: For Finn, who's just dressed like a baby.

Cristina: Just dressed like a baby? Yeah, yeah.

Jack: It's that guy over there dressed like a giant baby.

Cristina: Is he more scarier to fight than like, he's dressed like a baby?

Jack: I mean, there's an argument to be made that he's way crazier.

Cristina: Yeah, that might be a problem. I don't know. But the story was made because that column that we saw in Ireland, it has the same weird thing that's going on is happening in Scotland right across. So that's why they thought, oh, maybe there was a bridge there or something that connected from both sides to both sides.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: So that's pretty cool. And have other amazing stories like that. There's a place called Crater Lake in Oregon and there's a myth of how it was created. There's like a little island in it. Now they believe that a thousand years ago there was a mountain there. And the God of the underworld was standing on top of the mountain and he saw a beautiful woman. And he was like, I want to take her home with me. And she refused him. So he exploded the mountain out of anger and it shot out and hurt all the people around it. So then the God of the upper world came to save the day and fought him and drove him back down into the mountain. And then he covered the mountain with water. And that's the crater. That's water with a little. The tip of the mountain is reaching out.

Jack: Got you. That's really weird.

Cristina: Yes. Alright. There's a place in Bolivia called Salar de Oiuna. It's the world's largest salt flat, where there's a photo of it, super cool looking. And there's. I think there's a bunch of mountains surrounding it. One of them is called Tanupa. And one of the stories, actually there's a few stories about why that is there. And it revolves around this mountain called Tanupa, this volcano named Tanupa. The first story goes that once upon a time the volcanoes were walking around and they were able to talk to each other and stuff. And there was just one female volcano, while the others were male. And one day she got pregnant and none of the volcanoes knew who the father was because she was with all of them. And they got super angry. They fought each other and someone kidnapped her child. Then the gods punished them by not letting them move or talk anymore. So that they're now in place as volcanoes. And she cries all the time. She cried after she realized, I guess, her child was missing. And that created the salt flat that we see in the picture. It's a combination of her tears and breath.

Jack: Okay.

Cristina: Yeah. And in the second story, it's almost the same. It's her tears and breast milk. It's always her tears and breast milk. But it's. She's having problems with another volcano because he's cheating on her with another volcano and she was crying about it. Then there's the Devil's Tower in Wyoming and it looks pretty cool. I wish there was some devil story.

Jack: That does look badass as f***. What the h*** is that?

Cristina: There's a bunch of Native American stories about it. And it's all revolving around bears.

Jack: Right. But what the h*** is it?

Cristina: It's a mountain.

Jack: That's a f****** mountain?

Cristina: Yeah. It's a cool a** mountain.

Jack: Devil's Tower is just a mountain.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: What the h*** happened to the mountain?

Cristina: Bears clawed it. All the stores revolved around bears because of the those lines. They think it's like claw marks.

Jack: Right. I wonder what like in reality happened.

Cristina: Oh, in reality.

Jack: Oh, it is. That's crazy looking.

Cristina: It's really crazy looking. I get the devil's name too. If he's maybe there. Think like the American version is like the devil did it or something.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Lame or whatever. But in the other stories, it's like kids run up the mountain and then they pray to the their God to save them. And then the mountain rises up and then the claws are from the bears that were chasing them.

Jack: So it wasn't a mountain at.

Cristina: Sorry, no, no.

Jack: They were just standing somewhere and shut up.

Cristina: And then the rocks shut up.

Jack: That's crazy.

Cristina: That's a crazy.

Jack: It looks so unique. I like what it. What the f****** nature could do that though.

Cristina: You don't think it's a volcano related? I feel like a lot of these are volcano related.

Jack: Like it's the tip of a volcano, I guess.

Cristina: I don't know. But the lines going, I mean, who knows? Volcanoes are weird. The things they make are weird. So I don't know. Because the castaway that we saw was because of volcanoes. I think like that had to do with magma, the magic of magma. Then there's these things in southwest Africa in a place called Namibia called fairy circles. Fairy circles. Look at them.

Jack: Fairy circles. They look like drops of water. Not drops, but like if there was like moss on the water and you dropped a drop of water into a lake or something. Okay, so there's like moss on a lake and then you drop like a raindrop into the lake and then the opening that forms in the moss where the raindrop hits the water. That's what this looks like.

Cristina: Yeah. You want to know something super interesting?

Jack: What?

Cristina: They don't really know why.

Jack: Why it happens.

Cristina: Why it happens? Yeah, like there's a bunch of reasonable things of why. Like termites is a big theory. Some combination of termites and the plants. It's type of plants.

Jack: But no, this is on the ground, not water, right?

Cristina: Yeah, it's on the ground. So it's. It's a tough to. It's a toughie to explain. Yeah, the grasslands, that's what it's called. They're barren spots called fairy circles because they're very circular. They're really. They really are pretty nice. But there's also local myths about what caused those fairies circles that are not fairy related actually. So if that's what you were thinking, one of them is their footsteps of giants or spirits. And the other one that tour guides like to use is that they're formed by dragons. That a dragon that's inside the earth, that its breath is like poisonous and it's destroying the vegetation in that type of way.

Jack: Why circularly?

Cristina: Why circularly? I don't know. Those tourist guys don't know what they're talking about.

Jack: Yeah, like that's an unthought out story.

Cristina: Because I guess dragons are cool. So they wanted, you know, dragons. What's cooler than fairies?

Jack: I would argue that the other side of the planet is something like subspace in which it works in opposite. And while on this end it looks like ground, on that end it looks like water. And then when water drops do hit that lake, it creates this void that we see here, these clearings. Which is to say that when we're out here in lakes covered in moss and junk and water from our side lands on their side, it's land and it creates these sort of gaps of vegetation.

Cristina: Is that sci fi? I don't know. What kind of explanation is that?

Jack: I don't know.

Cristina: It's very strange.

Jack: Yeah, it's great.

Cristina: It's great. It's a great explanation. Your explanation is better than these other.

Jack: Because they just don't like take into account what's happening. It's just like here's a thing.

Cristina: Yes, here's a thing. The termites, maybe termites probably. Then the ouroborealis, which is a beautiful thing. You've probably seen this many times. Yes. Like it's still. It's very. It's beautiful. I can't imagine someone that sees this every day. And I mean, I guess if you.

Jack: Saw it every day, anything you see every day, you get over.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: We are surrounded by ginormous buildings that we see every day. And it's like, sweet. Another big building. Yeah, but we're like, man, awesome. To see, like a huge mountain. Meanwhile, people living across from a mountain are like, whatever, dude. I wonder what the city looks like, though.

Cristina: I know.

Jack: We're ungrateful. We all suck. Anybody who's over there seeing this s*** every day is like, oh, this garbage is happening again. Blocking the stars. I wanted the stargaze today. And this stupid Aurora wants to be in the f****** way.

Cristina: Yes, well, Aurora has so many. So many explanations, I guess from all over the world. Because a lot of places. See, it's not just a one location specific thing, I think. Right. So in Norse mythology, the lights are from the shields of the Valkyrie. If you remember the Valkyries, they're getting the soldiers to Valhalla.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: So that's them. That's pretty cool.

Jack: That's their spirit.

Cristina: That's their shield shining. But it could be their spirit. It could be the spirits that they're grabbing. Who knows? Because a lot of them involve spirits.

Jack: Right. But like, this is just a floating Valkyrie that is not in spirit form and happens to be in the sky. If it's not a spirit of a Valkyrie.

Cristina: Well, it's not. Well, to them it's caused by the light reflecting off the shield and armor. So I don't know.

Jack: Right. Which means there's a floating Valkyrie. Or hundreds of thousands. Thousands of floating Valkyries.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And they're not even dead.

Cristina: No, they're just.

Jack: They could fly. Yeah, it's a thing they could do.

Cristina: Why not? They're. Why. But you think it would be their spirits.

Jack: No, I'm saying that if they don't think it's their spirits, they're idiots. Because how are they trying to comp. How are they explaining this? It's just like. Yeah, we see Valkyries in battle all the time. Sometimes they die. It's like, why don't they just fly over their opponents?

Cristina: They don't see Valkyries.

Jack: Valkyries are soldiers.

Cristina: No, Valkyries are taking the souls of the soldiers that are dying.

Jack: Valkyrie is a female soldier in.

Cristina: Yeah, Valhalla. But we don't see them. I don't think we see them.

Jack: So they do float?

Cristina: Maybe. I don't know. Like, do they. Would they say they see Odin?

Jack: I Don't know.

Cristina: I don't know how, you know, that stuff works compared to their reality.

Jack: I wonder how the h*** Valkyrie is taking the soul then. Because they're not even. Based on the logic, they're not even here.

Cristina: But if they are here, they'd be floating.

Jack: Yeah, they had to travel here and then they're just, you know. They float.

Cristina: Yes, I guess they float.

Jack: So Norse mythology, Valkyries are like a.

Cristina: God Lesser because they're working for a God.

Jack: Okay.

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: Even gods work for Odin.

Cristina: Oh, okay. I'm not sure. I don't know where the Valkyries fit in. The gods in Norse mythology. They're in the low tier, though. They're probably C tier.

Jack: Yeah. They're like soldiers for gods.

Cristina: Yeah. And then China has the oldest records of the aurora borealis. One of their stories is on autumn of 2000 BC, there was a young woman who was sitting alone in the wilderness, and then she saw the lights and it was so beautiful that she got pregnant and she gave birth to us. To a boy Jesus.

Jack: Okay, so let's. Let's go back a couple of notches. Lady's sitting outside, the sky turns. Beautiful. It's so beautiful.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: She got pregnant.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And Japanese Jesus is born.

Cristina: China.

Jack: Chinese Jesus is born.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So that's. That's the order we're going with here. She sits outside. It's so beautiful. Whoops. I guess it got me pregnant.

Cristina: Well, this Chinese Jesus does more than Jesus, though.

Jack: I like random street performers, do more than Jesus did.

Cristina: Yes. Well, this guy, he grows up to be the emperor, and he's known for starting the Chinese culture and the ancestor of all of China, all Chinese people come from him. He's the beginning of China.

Jack: So he's like, wait, what the f***? How the f*** was this lady there then?

Cristina: She was before the Chinese culture. Okay, she was there, but she was like the native before Chinese.

Jack: Random lady walks into totally abandoned, empty lands. There's nobody been here before, ever.

Cristina: She was the first born.

Jack: She traveled who knows how far to reach an area where she can look up and see something that the nearest person can't see because they're that far. It's in the sky and the nearest person can't see it. They must be hundreds of feet, thousands of miles. She just. Crazy walking journey. She was like bear Grylls in this s*** on her.

Cristina: Maybe God told her to do this journey.

Jack: Then she got to this abandoned land, and then one day she's just looking up and she's like, hey, that's a cool little. Oh, my God. It keeps getting brighter. Wow. It's so big. It's so big. It's inside me.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: I'm pregnant now.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: That thing, that must have been God. Now I start China.

Cristina: Yes. Well, she doesn't. Her son does. Her Jesus.

Jack: But she started China.

Cristina: She started.

Jack: Technically, she started China. She had the first life on that soil.

Cristina: No, because Mary isn't the starter of Christianity. It's Jesus.

Jack: Well, to be fair, Mary is the starter of Jesus.

Cristina: Exactly. But it's two separate things.

Jack: No, 100% not. Because Mary's creation of with Jesus came Christianity. Jesus didn't start Christianity. Jesus was just a preacher.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Mary gave birth to the word of God.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: As did Asian Mary, who started Chinese Jesus. And thus the Chinese culture.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So she began the Chinese culture.

Cristina: Okay, so you're saying Mary started it all too.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Mary is the reason that Jesus and Christianity touches children.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Because of Mary, priests touch children. That's the connection I'm making here.

Cristina: What we didn't have.

Jack: If we didn't have Mary, this wouldn't be a problem.

Cristina: Do you think Mary was touched by the aurora borealis?

Jack: I don't know. Maybe. It's just that this Asian Mary is calling God the aurora. What does God look like? He's anomalous.

Cristina: He's a bright light. But she would have been blinded by his light.

Jack: She was apparently very blinded.

Jack: It was so beautiful. She thought it was inside her. She wasn't really capable of telling distance anymore. She was pretty blind. The story tells us a lot.

Cristina: Well, we got a lot from Australian natives. They have the light that shows up in Australia. They commonly see it as fire. Because it's red. Because it's red like fire. Look at that. Look at it. It's red. It's burning and. Yeah, so it's thought of as fire. And the people from the Western Victoria call them ashes, while people in the eastern Victoria see them as bushfires of the spirit world. It's a lot of spirit world stuff. South Australia sees them as evil spirits creating a large fire. And South Australians that see over the Kangaroo island see as a campfire of the spirits in the land of the dead.

Jack: A campfire in the land of the dead?

Cristina: Yes, because they need to get warm, too. In Southwest Queensland, the ouroborealis was fires of the spirits who spoke to people. And only male spirits as males. Only male elders were allowed to look at and speak to these spirits.

Jack: And what were these spirits?

Cristina: Their ancestors. Their ancestors were the spirits.

Jack: So they can Speak across time?

Cristina: Basically, yeah. Yeah.

Jack: There's a bridge to the past.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Now, these are the spirits of the ancestors. Or is it like they think this is, like, by spirit, they mean they can communicate through time to their ancestors in the past?

Cristina: I think it's true. Spirits. I don't think they're thinking of time travel.

Jack: Okay, so it's not like in the past, their ancestors are looking at the same thing speaking to the future.

Cristina: I don't think so. That'd be cool. But then that kind of interesting plot device, that would have been an example of time travel in some religious way or, you know, some myth or something. That'd be amazing.

Jack: That'd be interesting. There's a bunch of that, though. Anybody who could tell the future, anybody making predictions, it never just happened in a vision. So, like, I guess some of them did. But there wasn't. Like, there were other situations in which there was, like, a thing they were talking to or somewhere. They were seeing it. And this is some sort of bridge through time.

Cristina: Yeah, I mean, if you think about.

Jack: It logically, I guess.

Cristina: But they weren't saying it like that.

Jack: No, they were saying, like, you know, I'm talking to a flaming bush that's telling me the secrets or whatever. But it's like, maybe this is a catalyst and it's connected to something.

Cristina: Yes. And if you believe in aliens, it's aliens. Pretty much, it's aliens communicating. So ridiculous. And the first Old Norse account, one of the first written, one of the first things written about it, or one of the oldest things written about it. In 81,230, the author heard about the phenomenon from people returning to Greenland. He gave three explanations to what was making the lights. They were. The ocean was surrounded by vast fire. The fires. That's one. One is the ocean is surrounded by a vast fire. Two is the sun flares could reach around the world to the night side. And three is glaciers could store energy so that they'll eventually become fluorescent.

Jack: That would be an awesome world to live in.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: If glaciers just glow.

Cristina: They just glow.

Jack: They just glow.

Cristina: An ocean being surrounded by fire. That's crazy.

Jack: That's flat Earth.

Cristina: That's like, whoa, it's ice to them. What if we found out it was fire? What?

Jack: I guess, like, far enough. It would have to be. Right. If it's infinitely flat, that'll just. S*** happens.

Cristina: Eventually you will find fire.

Jack: Yeah, eventually. It's encircled by fire.

Cristina: Yeah. What about his second theory? The sun flares are reaching around the world at night.

Jack: Literally happens. But when There's a solar flare, and our magnetism causes that.

Cristina: What do they look like?

Jack: Usually the. They light up the aurora borealis. That's kind of what's happening. That's pretty accurate.

Cristina: Oh, look at him. That.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: What? Well, I like his other explanations better.

Jack: Yeah. Solar flares hitting the magnetic field of the Earth causes that. Not a solar flare, but a solar wind, which is essentially a solar flare. Basically, it's just a radiation flying towards us. And our magnetic field protects us from getting baked by all the radiation coming down. And it curbs around the magnetic field, causing the answer.

Cristina: He wasn't there, but he's like.

Jack: He's like, close. He was close. That was, like, pretty on the spot for somebody who had no. The. No clue what he was talking about.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like, he's like that guy from. From the Good Place that he just kind of, like, guessed what heaven was like.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: And, like, got it real f****** accurate. And then he became a hero to everybody.

Cristina: Yeah. Except it turned out that he was totally wrong.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Gotta forget about. That's so sad. And that show. So good. Why is it over? Although I love the solution. I do like the ending of that.

Jack: Yeah. They really explored it beyond the most philosophical points.

Cristina: That's pretty good then. The Native American myth is that the lights are spirits of their friends dancing.

Jack: In the sky because they're being trolled by their friends.

Cristina: I guess when they're very happy, the lights look brighter. So you know how your friends are doing. If it's dim, then they must be not so happy.

Jack: H*** must be happening. It's wartime.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: That's interesting. Did they believe that? Man, there's my problem with spirits. All right. If spirits are watching you at all times, Right. Like, at some point you got to f*** your wife, your grandma. Spirit is just watching you now. It's uncomfortable.

Cristina: I don't care about that. I do care about, like, if I'm pooping. That's kind of disturbing.

Jack: Do you care about being watched, pooping more than being watched f******, yeah.

Cristina: Yes, I do.

Jack: That's weird.

Cristina: Why is that weird? Because, like, they've done it. They know what it is.

Jack: They've also pooped, and they know what it is.

Cristina: I don't know. Mines could be special, Right? I don't know. There's a lot of situations where I wouldn't want someone to be watching me, I guess.

Jack: But sex is not one of them.

Cristina: Sex is one of them, but I feel like pooping is higher on my list. Sex is a close second. I'm guessing maybe just Your grandma watching you bang.

Jack: You don't give a f***.

Cristina: I'm sure she is. It's like, would she rather watch me bang or she could.

Jack: She probably cleaned your a** after you took a poop at some point, so.

Cristina: She should be more okay with watching me.

Jack: Yeah, she's way more familiar with that than watching you get b****.

Cristina: Would you rather watch someone have sex or take a poop?

Jack: Interesting. I like how you flipped it. I see what you're saying now, but I guess what you're thinking about is the wrong way, though. I like how you flipped it. Because if you're the ghost, what's your preference? Yes, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about you as the person. Why would you care what the ghost's preference is? If they're watching both, they're watching both. Yeah. Why do you care which one?

Cristina: I don't know if they. They might be watching one over the other. But then, you know what?

Jack: Okay, now let's think about how much worse this is.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Your grandma is like, h***, yeah, I'm gonna watch her have sex instead.

Cristina: I don't think she would be watching me have sex. I feel like she'd be watching.

Jack: She's watching everybody all the time, but she gets to choose one of two moments. She only gets to choose one of two moments. She has to throw one moment away, and she's like, I can either watch her poop and respect her sex privacy or f*** watching her poop and I can watch her get f*****.

Cristina: That's your girl watching me, though. She'd be watching a stranger.

Jack: No, she'd be watching everybody have sex.

Cristina: No. What? Ghosts can't do that.

Jack: Ghosts are like God. And in this case, your grandma hovers over your life.

Cristina: She hovers over a stranger.

Jack: She has no option. She only wants his family. She only watches family. No, that's why you see your family dancing in the aurora. Because they're watching over you. Or your friends. People you know are watching over you.

Cristina: No, they're not.

Jack: That is exactly how the stories go.

Cristina: That's horrible.

Jack: How is that any better than. I mean, how's that any worse than strangers?

Cristina: I don't.

Jack: Complete, total strangers who were probably gonna grab your hand in a train one day without your permission. Now they can just. Like, I get to watch your f***. Anyways, whatever. I won the lottery.

Cristina: I don't know. I just think about myself, though. I would rather not watch someone poop.

Jack: But you rather watch somebody have sex in that exchange.

Cristina: If there's still only two.

Jack: There's only two.

Cristina: And it's like, okay, one is gonna be like watching p***, which is whatever. And then one is watching poop. And that is disgusting.

Jack: Yeah, but you're thinking about you being the ghost.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Why do you care what the ghost is doing if you're. Who's being watched?

Cristina: Just the ghost Doing what?

Jack: Why do you think? Why do you care what the ghost prefers?

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: If you're the one being watched?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: How does that affect your life? What they prefer? It doesn't matter what they prefer. Yeah, they're watching. You don't even know what they're watching. You just know they're watching one or the other. You're not uncomfortable with the fact that they're probably just like, I'm a watcher. F***, that's awesome. Yeah, she's my granddaughter. But f*** it, I'm a watcher.

Cristina: It's all disturbing.

Jack: Get that D?

Cristina: It's all disturbing.

Jack: Or if it's a complete stranger. Yeah, she didn't let me touch her hand when I was in the train. But you know what? She doesn't know I got hit by a bus immediately after that. Now Imma just watch her forever.

Cristina: No, no one's watching.

Jack: That same creep who was gonna go home and beat off to touching your hand without your permission anyways is now infinitely for all of eternity, beating off to you f****** people for free. Not even. Only fans charges or anything.

Cristina: Maybe I get something special when I die. If I had a bunch of ghost viewers, we don't know that.

Jack: That'd be crazy, right?

Cristina: Yeah, like I'm winning ghost points right now.

Jack: I don't know, man. Or you get to ghost location and get raped immediately by all the people that were watching you because now you're a superstar.

Cristina: But if you're a ghost, like, can you even rape?

Jack: I don't know.

Cristina: Maybe because I thought the whole point of watching other people that are alive is because you can't do anything.

Jack: Who said based on what?

Cristina: Why are you wasting your time watching people then?

Jack: I don't know.

Cristina: You do whatever you want.

Jack: They probably do whatever they want and watch people. They can watch you without being seen. Why would they not do that?

Cristina: Because they could do other things. I don't know.

Jack: Yeah, they're gonna watch you get and then they're gonna go with you. In their mind.

Cristina: They just watch p*** because they can watch.

Jack: They are watching p***. That's exactly what they're doing. Except you're the channel.

Cristina: I don't know. I feel like their lives have to be a little different.

Jack: Why?

Cristina: Why would it be just like this?

Jack: Why wouldn't it?

Cristina: It's so lame. It's so lame.

Jack: If it isn't like this, you're basically saying you believe in God and there's a laid out plan and map that we're following. Or we just move forward to another plane that we adjust to and live there until we move from that one.

Cristina: We can't be stalking the past though.

Jack: We literally own photos.

Cristina: We gotta burn those photos.

Jack: We have video recordings. We do nothing but stalk the past. That's 99%. Yeah, 99% of everything is us fixated on what's already happened.

Cristina: That's horrible. It's the worst thing ever. You gotta stop that.

Jack: Good luck. Call Greta Thornburg. Maybe she'll help you.

Cristina: Okay. Wow, it's so disturbing.

Jack: Isn't Greta Thornburg a teenager or some s***? Now she's over here like her rebellion sage. Probably like smacking cigarettes back. Just throwing them into the wood heads, not giving a. She's like the environment. These old people think they can hold us down. I don't even care anymore.

Cristina: The whole robots and like we gotta destroy all humans.

Jack: Nah, man. I think she's probably just going through her rebellious teenage face. Probably like a goth right now. Smoking hella cigarettes and just throwing them into the driest part of the wood. She's like, watch it burn.

Cristina: She's gonna go visit California.

Jack: She wants to recreate California elsewhere. She's like, let's see if we can do this in Florida.

Cristina: I guess that's fine. I don't know.

Jack: She's not even like Amer. Which the f*** is she from? Some other place, Some other Scotland.

Cristina: She lives in German, I think. I don't know. Oh, maybe. Anyway, the next place is in Italy. I don't know if you know about this place. It's an island. It's the volcano. It's the volcano that other volcanoes are named after. It is the original volcano.

Jack: It's called Volcano. Volcano.

Cristina: It's called Volcano. It is called volcano.

Jack: So it's volcano. It's Volcano. Volcano.

Cristina: Yeah, it's Volcano. Volcano. It is the volcano. Look at it. It's huge. It's island, but it's a volcano. And this volcano. Volcano. The volcano from Volcano. In Roman mythology, the volcano on the island is the chimney from Falcon, the Roman God of fire and metalwork. He has a workshop there. And that's the chimney of it in.

Jack: The center of the earth.

Cristina: Yeah, I guess that's co. Under the volcano is the workshop.

Jack: Interesting, interesting. So there's a workshop at the center of everything because isn't that how Thor's hammer was made?

Cristina: In the center of a star? Oh, I don't know. Yes. That's not just in the galaxy movies. I don't know. That was based on Norse mythology too.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Okay. And the island grows bigger because the cinders and the ashes that he cleans out of his workshop go onto the island. Although it's really the magma, it's really just the magma of the volcano. And earthquakes that come before or within the explosions of ash is due to Vulcan doing his work. He's making weapons for their God, Mars. It's for his armies to wage war and stuff. So he's making their weapons and that's explaining the volcano and it exploding and all that stuff.

Jack: Okay, so when it erupts and has a big explosion, is that. There's a lot of work going on?

Cristina: Yeah, it's a lot of, well, him working on the weapons going on, so. That's cute. Yeah. Look at that volcano. It's a huge volcano. Pretty cool volcano. Okay. I don't care for this place. Okay. And then there's this really interesting looking place in Turkey. They're called the fairy chimneys. They're like little. If you can see, it looks like little homes inside the cave or something, like little doors or windows or something happening on the chimneys. The stories are that the chimneys were built from fairies who live underground. Because fairies do that sometimes. They live underground. They live in random locations. Wait, where is this in Turkey? They're called fairy chimneys in Turkey. And they're like mountains with a bunch of holes in them. If I zoom in, I guess you'll see closer. Looks like.

Jack: Right. So is this what the characters in Legend of Zelda, Wind Waker, are based on? The bird people.

Cristina: The bird people?

Jack: Yeah. They were originally some of the people who lived in Kokiri Village, one of the villages. And they. The. The town below got flooded because the whole world got flooded. And the people evolved to be these.

Cristina: Bird things and they live on in like chimney looking. Oh, they live on the mountain.

Jack: In and out of the mountain.

Cristina: Oh, crap. Oh, maybe. They probably take things from all over. So. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, they have fairies, but I don't know. Those birds aren't seen as fairies in that world though, right? No, just that little thing is a fairy. They haven't seen more than one type of fairy.

Jack: I mean, I guess humans probably consider a lot of these creatures to be equal to fairies. Even if they don't use that exact same word. They're all like mythical things. And to people they're still like, wow.

Cristina: Yeah. Oh, really? Okay. In that. In the world. You mean those people are.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Like if you look at the. They used to call the Kokiri village people the children fairy kids.

Cristina: The fairy kids?

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: That's adorable.

Jack: Like, that was literally the term they use on them.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: They used to say Link was a fairy boy.

Cristina: Well, they were fairies. Wait, did they grow up? They didn't grow up, right?

Jack: No. Link was the only one. Because he wasn't a fairy.

Cristina: No, but the kids. No, they stayed the same size. They probably did. Age? No, not age, age. But like time did pass by in that village or. No, like time was frozen there.

Jack: What do you mean?

Cristina: Like they were still young, in their 40s. They're still kids in their 40s or whatever.

Jack: I mean, if you choose to count time, I guess.

Cristina: Yeah, that's what I mean. Like they're. They. In a way that sounds very fair. Like if.

Jack: But I don't get what you do. Referencing time. That part doesn't make any sense though.

Cristina: Because if it was no time, then they're just children. Like they're not aging or nothing. Because there's no time.

Jack: Aren't aging. They're not little old people. Yeah, they're always kids.

Cristina: They're always kids.

Jack: Yes. They don't stop being children.

Cristina: Like their minds don't change.

Jack: I don't think so. No.

Cristina: You know.

Jack: No.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: I think they are literally just kids. They depend on the great Deku tree to be like the father figure.

Cristina: Oh, okay. They don't ever want to not be kids.

Jack: They don't know anything else.

Cristina: Oh, they don't know anything. Yeah, I guess.

Jack: Jan, they can't leave.

Cristina: They can't leave. What? Alright then. In Yemen, there is a place that has these trees called dragon blood trees. And they look really cool and strange. And one of the stories is that the first dragon blood tree was created from the blood of a wounded dragon after battling an elephant. And then the tree's blood is the dragon's blood, which the locals use as medicine. And then the second story from the dragon tree, it has to do with Hercules and he. In the Greek mythology, Hercules has a bunch of tasks that he has to do. The 12 Labors of Hercules.

Jack: Right.

Cristina: And in the 11th task, he has to steal the golden apples that the dragon is protecting on that island in that location. And Hercules has to kill the dragon. And then that's the dragon's blood that's flowing in the island and that's what made the dragon trees. Because I guess the dragon's tree does have something that looks like blood oozing out of it, but it's just the SAP, the SAP of the tree SAP.

Jack: Tree SAP? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cristina: Unique. So it looks like.

Jack: Oh, there's red tree SAP is pretty common.

Cristina: Red tree SAP. What? Oh, well, to them it looks. Well, the trees look really unique too. Yeah, it's all twisted and weird looking and so they think it's like part of the dragon or whatever. So. Yeah. And then there's the sleeping ute in Colorado. It's a man. Look at it, he's sleeping. See the man sleeping?

Jack: Oh yeah, I see him.

Cristina: Okay. In the story, he's a great warrior God who was battling evil and he got injured and now he's recovering by sleeping, so he just sleeps there until he gets better.

Jack: What's the origin of this? The origin, like who told the story?

Cristina: Native Americans told this story. Which group? I'm not sure. Pretty sure. Native Americans.

Jack: Okay.

Cristina: And his wounds became rivers and the rains come out of his pocket. For some reason, his pockets have clouds in them.

Jack: It's the lint collected.

Cristina: Yes. On each season the warrior changes his blankets for the four seasons. So I guess like the clouds above him look different in every season. So they, they're describing as the blanket that he's using. So like in spring he's using a light green blanket, so I guess the sky has a really green look to it, while in fall it's reddish yellow. So he's using a red blanket or whatever. Clouds are changing color every time he changes his blanket and it represents the different seasons in Iceland. There's this giant like hole, this dense looking hole in the ground. You see, it's a huge dent and it's called the Shelter of the gods. And it's explained that it was created by one of Odin's horse. It's an eight legged horse. Only one of its foot though, for some reason touched the earth's ground. The earth. And that's the mark of it. Now gods hang out in there, I guess.

Jack: But the gods are so big. The horse's footprint is that size.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So gods are squeezing in there.

Cristina: Yes, yes they are. And this horse's backstory is amazing. He is. Besides that, he's like an egg legged creature with runes for his teeth. It's kind of bizarre looking. But he is a baby of Loki and it's a weird story, as is.

Jack: Every other child ever.

Cristina: There was a builder who went to the gods, who was like, I want to help you guys. I want to build you a defensive wall for your castle. And they agreed, but they didn't really believe he could do it. So they were like, okay, you can do it, but you have to do it alone. And then he said, alright, but could I at least have my horse help me? And for some reason they agreed. Until they saw that he's his horse was actually very helpful. So then Loki was like, all right, I gotta stop this from happening. So he turned into a female horse and to distract the male horse. And then soon after that, he gave birth to this eight legged freak.

Jack: Loki did?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Fire. Loki turned into a woman, got pregnated, then gave birth to a freak.

Cristina: Yes. Oh, a female horse. Not like. What? Like that's your distraction. I know he's like the pranking God or whatever, but that prank doesn't sound like a prank. Sounds like.

Jack: Sounds like he wanted to f*** a horse.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And have. Raise a family with it.

Cristina: I don't know about that, but I feel like he wanted. He was curious about that horse.

Jack: Yeah. He started a family with the horse when a head became a horse. And then he had sex with the horse and then he started a family with the horse and it's that time Loki settled down.

Cristina: I don't think he settled down. I just think he was curious about that horse.

Jack: Right. And then he got pregnant. But he could have stopped that pregnancy.

Cristina: He's Loki.

Jack: He's a God. But no, he kept playing wife.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: He saw this all the way through.

Cristina: Then he had an egg legged freak and then it somehow became Odin's horse.

Jack: Yep. It's a weird family tree happening right here.

Cristina: Yeah. I wonder what is my grand.

Jack: I ride my grandson around her.

Cristina: Yeah. Oh my gosh. That what? How did that happen? There's some mythology for you, but what is the explanation of his other children now? Now I'm like, was he curious about other things?

Jack: Like had the world snake happened?

Cristina: Yes. Like what was he curious?

Jack: Maybe he just became a woman snake and he banged another snake and then boom.

Cristina: Like how often. Yes. Did he give and his jackal children?

Jack: Maybe he just became some sort of jackal woman. Got plowed by some jackal boom God jackal things.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: He just likes to get.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: What we've landed on is Loki likes sex, but not even like being the dom. He's like way sub.

Cristina: Yes. He doesn't want to be a dude getting.

Jack: He's got hella little spoon energy.

Cristina: A woman and he gives birth. Yeah.

Jack: Yeah, he wants the whole experience.

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: He is committed, bro. He's here for the ride. It ain't about no destination. He's here for the whole ride.

Cristina: I wonder if he has any, like, human children and what the explanation of that is?

Jack: Mad boring. After you f*** the snake the size of earth like humans. That feels like a step back.

Cristina: I thought the snake the size of Earth is his child.

Jack: Yeah, but like, what the f*** did he f*** to get that thing?

Cristina: I want to know. It has to be way bigger.

Jack: Fair enough. Either way bigger or he f***** just a normal snake, but because he's a God, he gave birth to this thing.

Cristina: Yes. Well, that's something. We both learned so much from the story. It's a great story.

Jack: Loki's awesome.

Cristina: And besides locations that are explained through myths and stuff, there's also natural disasters that myths are used to explain as well. Like tsunamis from a sea God. The Mochan people that live in some islands near Earth island, they believe in a sea spirit God who sends monstrous waves to pretty much clean out the humans and to eat them. And one time they collected a bunch of fallen coconuts and went to the sea to beg the wave to not destroy their boats or their island or whatever. To not destroy their boats. And the wave, I guess, listened to them and they were saved. That's the story that they tell to themselves. Like, that's the Myth. But in 2004, they remembered that story and it actually saved their lives. Because they remember the story of how they survived the first time, but not by getting the coconuts, but because they remember the whole wave going back and then coming, but it didn't, like, destroy them. But in this time, it was there to destroy them. They went somewhere up higher and they all survived, except for one person, I think died. But around them, a bunch of people died from this. Just them specifically, this group of people were able to make it out alive thanks to a myth. So that's pretty awesome.

Jack: That is kind of badass. Sort of went full circle. It began as an explanation, and that explanation turned out to be the saving grace of a couple of people. Yeah, because it was based on truth.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Which then goes to say, how many of these myths are based on truth? Like, one dude almost got magnetism and solar winds. Yeah, like, he got pretty close. So how many of these things, although wrapped around the crazy veil of whatever the beliefs were at that time, are, like, actually accurate? Like, if you sift through them enough and you pick the right things, truth is just there.

Cristina: I don't know that's interesting. I like that this actually worked for someone.

Jack: Yeah, it actually worked. The story was built on a fact about tsunamis.

Cristina: Yeah. In Japan, they have this creature called the namazu. The Namazu, which is a giant catfish who causes earthquakes with his tail. Originally, he was there just to warn people before a flood or rain so that they know, like, oh, no, something bad's gonna happen. But he wasn't like a bad creature or anything. Then the tail changed through time, and then he became something called the yokai, which is a creature that's a creature that just destroys things.

Jack: Not necessarily. The yokai, as told to us by the host of Obscure Anomalies when he was guesting on the show, was that his name is Chris Rustic, and he was telling us about the yokai and how the yokai are creatures created to tell stories that couldn't be explained in any other way.

Cristina: Okay. Well, they decided that now he's the one destroying everything with his tail. He's making the earthquakes and the tsunamis with his tail fascinating. Which originally he was a good guy, but whatever. And then later he, I guess, sort of became the good guy again. But now he's punishing people for human. For greed.

Jack: So Santa Claus.

Cristina: Yes. Because his destruction was pretty much destroying the property of the rich people. Because tsunamis and earthquakes are destroying wealthy people's properties, and then they're seeing it as a good thing.

Jack: Fair enough. Because the argument here is if you don't own anything, you don't have anything to lose. And the people who do own anything are the ones who are getting f***. It's when natural disasters happen. Which then comes to put the argument forward that only the greedy people suffer in tragedies. Because the homeless people were already homeless.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And already owned nothing. And nomads and people who just live roaming freely don't own anything to lose. An earthquake hits, your building collapses. Even if there were people renting those apartments, they can go rent somewhere that didn't collapse. The owner of the building is f*****, though.

Cristina: Yes. Yes.

Jack: House owners are f*****.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: House renters can just go rent somewhere else.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Owners of stuff get screwed in an earthquake.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Same thing happens in hurricanes. People who own s*** lose s***. People who don't own s*** don't lose s***.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Natural disasters attack only the wealthy.

Cristina: Yes. Except for the deaths. That's pretty much everyone but the property, though.

Jack: Yeah. Property wise, wealthy. Yeah.

Cristina: Yeah. So, yeah.

Jack: That's why nothing else that could be attacked. Anyways, we are running out of time.

Cristina: Okay. What?

Jack: Yeah. But pretty fascinating I like that some of these people are pretty spot on on what their lessons are. Even if, you know, some of it is crazy.

Cristina: Some of it.

Jack: But it's like a lot of it is crazy in grounded ways. Like they thought about it enough to make it make sense and then told the story with it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And then that story turned out true.

Cristina: The best one though was the Chinese. Jesus. Yeah, like, how could you?

Jack: Lady came out of f****** nowhere and started Chineseism.

Cristina: Started. Yeah, those lights were magical.

Jack: Chineseism was the Chinese, the first Asians. Is every other Asian culture, like branching out of Chinese?

Cristina: Maybe Because a lot they're the old. Like they have the oldest, then the.

Jack: Answer is if they are the oldest, then yes.

Cristina: Like not that they're the oldest, but they have the oldest records, I would say from others. Because they were writing before anyone else.

Jack: The Chinese invented record keeping.

Cristina: Well, in the Chinese, I mean the Asian culture, they were the ones that were writing.

Jack: Oh, okay.

Cristina: And that's why everyone else got writing from their writing.

Jack: Because my understanding was that the Jews were the ones who invented record keeping.

Cristina: Well, then maybe they were. I don't know. One passed it to the other, who knows?

Jack: Yeah, but anyways, if you guys like stuff like this.

Cristina: Hey, what about the Egyptians? Are they not older? They were writing, although we can't understand their writing. So do they count? That doesn't count.

Jack: I mean, record keeping as we know it now, where names are written down and family trees are kept in track and that kind of stuff. Yeah, the modern day record keeping that we still do now with just better things. But it was more or less the same thing. That was. I believe I could be mistaken and this could be misinformation, but I don't. The f*** who thinks I'm telling the truth anyways when I'm talking? Yeah, it could totally be the Jews.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Well, in fact, whether or not it's the Jews, it's the Jews.

Cristina: Well, I'm saying it's the Chinese.

Jack: Yeah, fair enough. Anyways, if you guys like things of this nature, there are actually many episodes on random crap like this. The closest thing I could think of to like disasters like this would actually be the mass hysteria episode.

Cristina: Oh yeah.

Jack: Because it's talking about large scale things that happened which kind of falls in line with these large things. Except that's way leaning more towards, you know, trying to dissect the psychology of crazy people.

Cristina: Yeah. But we also, I think, go a little into the weird explanations they came up with.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Before actually figuring it out.

Jack: Interesting, interesting.

Cristina: It's pretty Cool.

Jack: Anyways, you guys can find that stuff on the official website greatthoughts.info on Apple podcast, Spotify, or anywhere you get your podcast.

Cristina: And you can reach us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and TikTok on just convopod.

Jack: Yes, and remember to subscribe, rate and review the show if you feel so inclined.

Cristina: And let someone who might like this show know about it.

Jack: Yes. Word of mouth is the most important thing in the world. I tell you this at the beginning, always, and I tell you this at the end, that you have to approach somebody with the kindest heart and ask them. Look, I would love if you listen to the show and if you don't, it's totally cool. There's no pressure, but I hope you can listen to the show. I think you'll enjoy it a lot. And when you're genuine like that, people will just be like, man, this guy, a good guy. And they'll just listen.

Cristina: Of course.

Jack: They'll give it a shot. So just know you share your kindness.

Cristina: They will listen, of course.

Jack: Love is the way.

Cristina: Love is the way. Uhhuh. This has been the Just Conversation podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Bye.

Jack: He might have taken a poop in the litter.

Cristina: Boxing all the poop.

Jack: He's scooping all the poop. He didn't say scooping all the poop.

Cristina: That's not a thing.

Jack: No, I think he's just scooping the poop.

Cristina: His poop? Just once.

Jack: His poop? Yeah, he took a poop and I was scooping it. He's a good citizen.

Cristina: That's it.

Jack: Huh?

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: He exists in a universe where he took a poop and he just picked the poop up.

Cristina: There has to be more to that song.

Jack: Maybe he grabbed the poop with his bare hand.

Cristina: Yes. I don't know.

Jack: Just a bare grip. Just a bear grip on a poop log.

Cristina: No, if he's scooping it, then he has a something.

Jack: Some sort of poop scooper.

Cristina: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, scooper. To scoop the poop.

Jack: Yeah, he has a scooper to scoop.

Cristina: Then that would make it seem like he's done this before.

Jack: He had a scooper to scoop the poop with.

Cristina: Like, unless that scoop is used for something else.

Jack: I don't know. I don't know. Let's. Let's dive deep into this.

Cristina: We're gonna break down the lyrics. Good morning, Good night. Good morning. The Just Conversation podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published bygreat dots.in fox. Art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McCallister with social media managed by Amber Black.

November 14, 2020

Rambling 109: Werewolf Science

November 14, 2020/ GreyThoughts.Info

The Just conversation Podcast, Werewolf, Werewolves #monsters, creatures, halloween, folklore, science, science fiction, stories, urban legend, terror, horror, fear, nature, 1800s, demons, possession, full moon

What is the science behind the stories of werewolves? What are the possible events that lead to their stories being shared over generations? Answers and theories to that on this episode.

Story:
After an episode where Calm Cristy elaborated on the intricate folklore and stories of Werewolves, Genocidal Jack decides to do an even deeper dive to see if the stories hold and scientific validity. With hopes of coming to a conclusion and maybe one day capturing their own pet werewolf, the duo unpack the origin of their stories. But what they discover about werewolves, native tribes and synthetic drugs throws their plans for a loop in ways they could not have predicted. All that and more on this episode of Just Conversation.

+Episode Details

Remember to leaves us a rating wherever you listen to podcast!

Topics Discussed

Werewolf Origin Story
Yellow Eyes
Monster in the Woods
Hauling Wolves
Tribal Native Outfits
Synthetic Drugs
Bath Salts
Rabies
Full Moon

Our Links:

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

+Transcripts

Jack: Where do werewolves come from? Is there an example in nature of what a werewolf could be? Or maybe a werewolf is just a collection of ideas, possibilities, stories passed through generation. So what is a werewolf? The answer to that and more coming up on this episode of Just Conversation.

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Just Conversation podcast, the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas in childish ways. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And if you haven't yet, remember to hit that subscribe button to get notified the second new episodes are released.

Cristina: And also, this show is most enjoyable with a listening partner to share opinions and ideas on topics we discuss.

Jack: Yes. So make sure to get some body pulled up nice and close and prepare to be en. Wokened. It's like the combination of enlightened and woke.

Cristina: Whoa. The next level.

Jack: The next level. It's because the woke movement is of dumbasses and the enlightened movement is of, like, self help and like, what is it called? The. The essential oils and crystals, people. And it's like, how are you supposed to communicate if you ban everything?

Cristina: I don't know. What's. Your facial expressions?

Jack: I don't even know, man. Because you're not allowed to say everything because everybody's emotions. The end. Just everybody's emotions. And it's like, all right, so if everybody's censoring themselves for everybody's emotions, everybody's being f. But you get offended by fake people because they're not being real, which is where all those. You know, if somebody's lying to you, you're being fake, then, you know, remove them from your life. But you put them there because they can't say anything. You don't let them say. So they have to be fake in the first place in order to communicate. But then you don't like them being fake because it's fake. And so you remove them from your life. Before long, you force everybody to censor themselves, but you don't like anybody because they're all being this fake person. And then you find yourself alone and kill yourself.

Cristina: And you're also depressed because you're always having to be fake.

Jack: Yes, you also. You're a hypocrite. You land as a hypocrite at the.

Cristina: End of it because, yeah, you're doing the same. You have to do the same thing for everyone else. If you expect everyone else to do the same that to you. And Yep.

Jack: Although I don't believe that. No, I don't believe any of them. Like practice what they preach.

Cristina: Well, next we'll have to censor emotions. That's the next thing.

Jack: I think the only thing. We should be censoring our emotions. There should be no f*** speech. There should be because we need to communicate. There should be emotion police because you shouldn't. The problem is we're living in a backwards society where people rely on others for how they feel. Like why can words affect you that way? What the f***? Just suck it up. Your emotions are your emotions, not anybody else's. Actions that affect people, that's a problem.

Cristina: And they, they need help. Everyone needs help.

Jack: Everybody needs help. That's crazy.

Cristina: I want to be emotion police. What do I have to do?

Jack: I don't know. There's. I mean any kind of police, I guess you just sign up, they give you a gun and a badge like a day later and they're like, go out there and kill as many as you can.

Cristina: Yeah. Anyone who shows emotion, I just shoot them.

Jack: Yeah. They're like, if they show emotion, they're getting hostile. And then you put them down.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: That's how you do it. They show emotion. The suspect is being hostile. Then you throw yourself on the floor. Officer down, I need backup. Then you pull out your gun, he's attacking and then you just shoot him a couple of times. And he was just Karen ing it out.

Cristina: Yeah. And I'm just being a soccer player.

Jack: A soccer player?

Cristina: Yeah. Just like, oh no, my ankle. Oh yeah.

Jack: Like when a soccer player barely gets touched. Like that guy who got tapped in the shoulder and then threw himself on the floor and pretended to like be super hurt.

Cristina: Yeah, those soccer moves, those are my favorite part of soccer. There's nothing better. It's so. That's even more so papyri than like any other sport. There's nothing, no drama like soccer drama.

Jack: Like it. No. They will pretend everything is the end of the world. Yes, it's so funny. But keeping on the theme of rage and anger and going hostile and cops shooting people for no reason because that's what cops do. And if you're going to be emotion police, you better be ready to shoot anybody emotional. Which means all the Karens are going to die.

Cristina: Sorry, Karen's.

Jack: They gotta. They're ruining the world anyways. As people get wokened, we can educate them on anger. Particularly like rage filled anger. No. All jokes aside, previously previously on this Conversation. You were telling us some wolf related folklore. Werewolves. Yes. And although we came to some interesting conclusions. That episode turned out unique. We landed. We stumbled on some things that I didn't think would connect, but they did.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: That was interesting. But that gave me the thought that, like, how much do we really, like, sure, we know folklore, but, like, can we make a real werewolf? Is that like, a thing? Could it. Could it be possible that there was always a real werewolf? Like, everything?

Cristina: But when you're saying make, are you talking about, like, scientists, like, Scooby Doo lab?

Jack: No, I'm saying, like, is it based on something true?

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: I'm saying, like, in every circumstance, every bit of folklore is based. It's like a rumor or a stereotype. Like some part of what's happening is true somehow.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So where did a werewolf come from? There must be something in there that's truth. Something that isn't a lie.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Even when we think of some of the conclusions from that very episode, those have to be based on some manner, shape, or form of something that was real to begin with.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And so I started to sort of look into it, trying to find out. And obviously it took me to situations from the past and situations from the present. Mixture of things sprinkled together create a pretty interesting painting of what a werewolf could have rooted from. There is a multitude of things. And one of the things I didn't know about werewolves is that they have yellow eyes.

Cristina: What?

Jack: Yeah. A lot of folklore about werewolves referenced yellow eyed beasts. Yeah. That they had almost like cat like, eye slit, but that their surrounding eye is very yellow. Like you could see bright yellow eyes.

Cristina: They look like cat eyes.

Jack: The pupil.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But the rest of the eye, the cornea, I guess, would be. Looks very, very yellow. And I couldn't zero in on anything in reality that for some reason would cause that. Except one very specific thing, which is actually pretty common. If you don't take care of yourself. And that thing is when you have an inflamed liver, when you have liver damage and it can't process things properly.

Cristina: It turns your eyes yellow.

Jack: Your eyes turn yellow.

Cristina: Oh, like the white part turns yellow or.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Okay. That's what.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: And you looked at pictures of it?

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Whoa. Does it look creepy looking?

Jack: It looks pretty normal.

Cristina: Oh, so you wouldn't, in the dead of night, see someone with those yellow eyes?

Jack: They wouldn't have, like, glowing eyes. Like, that's an exaggeration. I don't know why. They'd have, like, fluorescent eyes or some s***.

Cristina: Yeah. But just those eyes wouldn't creep you out.

Jack: Yes. And if you saw those Eyes in a figure that was more or less in shadow. You would more than anything, like in any other case, see the eyes, most likely.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And when it comes to eyes darkness, there's the stereotype of the black person in the dark. One of the few things you can see from them is their teeth and their eyes, because those are white. In the case that a dark skinned person is hanging out in the woods, teeth and eyes are what you'd see if you see teeth and yellow eyes, but they're hard to make out, you have a monster. Especially considering that most of these things go back to racist old white people from old times. So they had slaves. Slaves would escape, they would run away. And it's not an empty everything around you. There's other people. So you're running through the woods and you stumble into somebody's yard or some s***, they look your way, they can see teeth and yellow eyes, and they're scared there's a creature running through the woods. Especially if they've never seen a black person before. You're already something that they don't understand. So you're some sort of. And this is not doing anything extreme. You're malnourished, you have very little water, you have liver damage for some reason. You have yellow eyes. As a result, you're running through the woods and all they can see are your teeth and your yellow eyes. You're just escaping slave masters.

Cristina: You're a werewolf.

Jack: You're werewolf. You're some feral creature to them.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And we're just talking. You don't even have to be black. You could have just been Hispanic or some s***. You could have been Native American. And you're just dark skin enough that you disappear into particular dark light or you're hard to make out.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: If we think of Native Americans and their tribal where these tribes in the times of white people first arriving here, they still had their tribal wear in large numbers. If you come to a new land and you're not familiar with and you're still, you still miss, you believe in mystical things and a lot of fantasy based things. And you arrive from, whether it be England or Spain or Italy or Portugal or any of these conquistador infested locations, and you believe in gods and angels and demons and creatures created by monsters, you arrive in the land, you know some of the natives, but they live in nature. And in the middle of the night, you see, they're dark skinned, they're tan at minimum, and it gets darker from there. They're running around doing their thing. Maybe they're doing some ritual or something. They're in their tribal uniform and they look not the way. They don't have the normal shape of anything you could identify. They maybe have a helmet on. The helmet has weird spikes. Maybe they have the skull of a dead creature on them. Okay, so a dead cow or something that they put that on top of, like a buffalo? Yeah, anything.

Cristina: You know, just looking at like a chattel or something of it.

Jack: Yes. You're seeing something alien as f***.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And it's just a Native American with tribal gear on. They're just doing what they do, but you don't understand what they do. And it's the middle of the night, you look, maybe you're wandering, maybe, who knows, you're delivering goods from one town to another. It takes you a couple of days, which means you got to camp out in the woods and you just happen to be close to a camp and they're just walking their normal route before you see something really weird and you're like, what the f*** is that? I saw a f****** werewolf. It did not. It looked humanoid. It looked like he had a bunch of excessive hair or feathers and horns and a head that was oversized and he was way bigger than. And it's because they were wearing an outfit that was huge and fluffy and odd looking.

Cristina: What? Yeah, that could be the werewolf.

Jack: So now we're building where the stories are coming from before anything gets confirmed. We just have. Oh, I've seen them. Even if I've. If I haven't been up close. I've seen shadows and things. I know what they are. Those are werewolves. Those are a human creed, although it hasn't been a wolf yet. But you come to the United States before the United States. You come to America and you are exploring and you see these Native Americans or captives, slaves running away. You are in America. We have wolves of many different kinds.

Cristina: Yeah, this.

Jack: And they live where? The woods, the forests. And where do the Native Americans live? The deserts, the woods and the forest. So you're either seeing them with coyotes or you're seeing them with wolves. Either way.

Cristina: So they're wearing a wolf.

Jack: They could be wearing a wolf. And they're probably at peace in nature with the wolves.

Cristina: Ah, you hear like a wolf howling and then you see them and you're.

Jack: Like, there's a harmony between them and you're confusing one with the other. You hear the wolf and then you see the guy in the outfit you can't identify. It looks like some alien. It looks like a creature you can't but it's an outfit in the dark, and you can't really make out that they're wearing an outfit. You're just like, I. You could even think that's f****** Bigfoot. You don't know. You saw some crazy s***, but you heard the wolf. Now you're making associations. Now you're connecting dots, but there's nothing happening. These are just circumstances that happen to be close to one another.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: They're from the forest. The wolves are from the forest. You're walking on route to make a delivery by the force. You hear one thing, you see the other, you think it's the same thing. I heard a wolf. I know what a wolf sounds like, but then I saw a creature, and I'm already thinking wolf. But then I see that. I associate wolf to it. It's a wolf, man.

Cristina: Yeah. I'm not gonna investigate that.

Jack: Exactly. I saw Wolfman. Yeah, I heard it, then I saw it.

Cristina: Yeah. Real life werewolves.

Jack: Interesting, right? So there's definitely a psychological factor that leads to these things. There's the way rumors get started and myths begin. Is always base and grounded. There's something real going on.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: That gets twisted and turned by superstitious people and by ideologies and by narratives sometimes intentionally twisted in order to, like, think of. What's his name? Shakespeare. He writes stories about situations that aren't real to warn people about possibilities. And so that probably happened a million times. Fairy tales, a lot of the time were told because you wanted to warn somebody.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: We had a guest, our last guest before this episode, Chris Rustic, who was telling us about the banana tree, who would rape people. But it's really just a story you come up with to scare kids out of going into the woods, but not scare them away from other people. You just don't want them to be anywhere they can't be be seen where something horrible could happen.

Cristina: So saying werewolves are in the woods could scare off the kids from entering the woods?

Jack: Yes. At the beginning, it began as somebody really saw something. They don't know what they saw, but that mental association happens. But then they start twisting it because, look, I don't know what the f*** I saw, and I don't want my kids going into the woods.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So we make a story about the werewolves we saw because we did see werewolves. I saw it. I was there. I ran into town immediately afterwards. I'm like, I can't make this delivery. There's a monster in the woods. It was half man, half wolf. They tell the whole town. They tell the Kids, how long before that becomes just a tale that that town knows of, that the forest is filled with werewolves?

Cristina: And it's just to protect the kids, though, or.

Jack: It didn't begin that way. It was warning. It was like somebody saw a f****** creature in there.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Somebody saw a werewolf, and we don't know what those werewolves do.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Jump forward. Many, many, many, many years. We're in Modern Era. 2012, Miami, Florida. Some guy is on the street eating another m***********'s face.

Cristina: That's not a zombie. That wasn't the first case of a zombie.

Jack: That was the first case of a zombie. But it came from a person having bath salts, which are just a synthetic drug imitating, usually a methamphetamine or heroin. These synthetic drugs that are made to imitate, whether it be heroin or it be methamphetamines or whatever, they have very specific behaviors that happen to people. They do things that these other drugs don't. And like. Wait, what?

Cristina: What is it?

Jack: Oh, what things do they do?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Well, there's a couple of effects that they have that they create. You know, primarily the bath salt, specifically, it is a unique compound of things. Right. For short, it's called mdpv. But usually when people take these things, they tend to cause the user to go hypermanic with psychosis, and then they become highly aggressive.

Cristina: But do they take it for that?

Jack: No.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: They think they're getting high as if it were heroin or as if it were methamphetamine.

Cristina: So is this something like they're lied to that what it is or.

Jack: No, they know what it is. They just think they're going to have that reaction.

Cristina: Okay. But. Okay.

Jack: Not everybody reacts the same way.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: It's not like everyone who takes bath salts behaves the same way.

Cristina: No.

Jack: But some people do take bath salts, and. Because it's not like a science.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It's not down to a T. It's. Everybody makes it different, and it's always tainted one way or another. People are going to react in weird ways. Exactly. So with a lot of people having these sort of very aggressive behaviors come weird sporadic brain patterns and, like, irrational tendencies that they have. They scream and they throw themselves on the floor and roll over and they tear at their chest and they tear at their legs. They scratch themselves till they bleed. They kind of go crazy, essentially. In one of these cases we saw in Miami, the guy who ate the face, he was one of two. I think the other one was in California or something who attacked an individual and kind of started Just eating a f****** person while they were still alive.

Cristina: Were they? Did they sound like an animal? Like what did they sound like?

Jack: Their screams were f****** crazy. We can hear.

Cristina: We can hear it.

Jack: Yeah. So we can hear what this individual sounds like.

Cristina: Okay, that's gonna be horrifying. I know. Is that the guy?

Jack: Yes, that's a guy on Bath Sal.

Cristina: Wow. But did they do something?

Jack: No, they're just watching him trip out on bath salts.

Cristina: Stop it.

Jack: All right, all right, I'll stop the video. Sir.

Cristina: Stay down. Stay down.

Jack: You're going to hurt yourself. Okay, so that are the sounds that a person on bath salts makes?

Cristina: What? What? Hearing that in the middle of the night. Horrifying, definitely.

Jack: Hearing that in the middle of the night is a nightmare of sorts, especially if you don't know what is happening. Now, as we know, it's been associated with cannibalistic tendencies.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Now, let's keep all of these things in mind as we go back in time to hearing weird things. And a man runs into the woods saying, I was on my delivery route and I saw a f******. I heard a howl. I saw a weird creature walking through the woods. It was a f****** werewolf.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: You know, it has yellow eyes. You saw teeth, you saw big build, which is probably just a f****** outfit of some sort. And you heard a howl. There's a whole mentality happening here.

Cristina: A picture is being made.

Jack: Yes. Now, you, in these times, don't have a doctor the way traditional doctors work. Now we're talking 1700s.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So a doctor is a bit different of a concept. A doctor is really an alchemist, a witch doctor. And what do they do? They grab random chemicals, put them together, trying to heal. Random s***.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Usually they give you something. It's not even research. They're just like this s*** with that s***. Yeah, here's some poison. Take it. You know, it'll cure you. People are getting f****** given. What was that thing that's inside of a thermometer?

Cristina: Mercury.

Jack: Mercury. People are getting mercury. F****** cure s***. Like, come on, bro.

Cristina: Yeah, yeah.

Jack: So, like, it wasn't the smartest of practices, but let's say you have liver problems. So you have yellow eyes. Your liver isn't functional the way it should be. You go to this witch doctor, the alchemist, and he's like, I got something for you. I'm gonna throw a couple of these things together, and you're gonna take this. It's random s***. It's random. What are the odds that once in a while there was an adverse reaction that behaved the way a chemical compound like bath salts does. You can actually get close to this type of behavior with mercury poisoning.

Cristina: Really?

Jack: You get fevers, you get hallucinations, you become manic, you become aggressive. And you can get that from mercury poisoning. You become very delusional. Okay, so what stops a witch doctor from giving somebody who has a failing liver without knowing that that's the case? Some concoction that works like bath salts. Person, for whatever reason, wanders the woods and now you have a yellow person freaking the out, running out at and.

Cristina: Trying to eat them, trying to bite their faces.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But you're alone, walking through the woods. It's dark. You get randomly attacked by this individual. You don't get to see them. You already just heard the stories. You heard the other guy and he was a. You were like, he's a p****. He does. He's just seeing. Yeah, Imma do the delivery and imma get the money he didn't earn. And now I'm walking through the woods and then boom. I got attacked by somebody, some s*** in the middle of the night. It kind of looked human, but I couldn't really tell because it was too quick. But I know it bit me, it scratched me and then it threw itself on the floor, started screaming and scratching itself, and then ran off into the woods. What the f*** did I just see? Yeah, it was the werewolf that guy was talking about.

Cristina: No, you're gonna become one. Or if you know that's part of the story, if that's part of the story already.

Jack: Not yet, but it's gonna be. Because the guy who spends his time in the woods is exposed to particular, that puts him in a unique kind of circumstance.

Cristina: Wait, which guy?

Jack: The quote, werewolf. Oh, okay, okay, so Native Americans, people wandering, making deliveries, slaves trying to escape captivity, running through the woods. Whatever the case might be, animals have parasites and have diseases. And if you get attacked by animals, there are certain kinds of diseases that are more prominent in creatures and others enter the most dangerous thing you could have gotten at that time. That now is one of the most easily curable things you could ever get. Rabies.

Cristina: Rabies? Oh, yeah.

Jack: Now, rabies, basic things, it's transmitted through saliva, usually through a bite. If you touch saliva with rabies, you're not gonna get it. So how do you get. You either need that saliva to fall into your mouth, to be ingested somehow, or to come in contact with your blood.

Cristina: Okay, like being bitten?

Jack: Like being bitten. Now, the virus is enclosed in the saliva. That's why it travels through it. It's sort of protected by the saliva itself. And it targets the nervous system and particular brain cells.

Cristina: And what does the rabies. What is it gonna do?

Jack: Well, the rabies is going to cause muscle spasm, aggressive behavior, psychosis, hallucinations, and very particularly foaming from the mouth.

Cristina: Foaming from the mouth?

Jack: Yep.

Cristina: That's pretty horrifying. If you see that in the woods and it bites you.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: And then just a person biting you, you will get rabies.

Jack: It would be transmitted? Yes.

Cristina: Oh, so in the story, the guy who gets bitten gets rabies.

Jack: Yes. So if we follow the picture perfectly, there might be a Native American roaming the woods. He's where the wood, where the wolves are. The guy is first, guys walking through. He hears a wolf, sees the Native American, panics, doesn't make the delivery. Somewhere in that time, the Native American gets bitten himself by some creature in the woods. They don't have a vaccine. They catch rabies. The rabies causes a series of behaviors that makes their liver fail for whatever reason. Now you got yellow eyes. You still got your outfit on. You're savage. You're crazy. You're acting like a maniac. Your tribe leader creates a alchemic concoction, gives it to you, enhances the problems you're already dealing with. Now you are extra manic, extra crazy, extra psychotic. And you're attacking yourself. And anything you see, you get cast out. You're no longer part of the village. You're a danger.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: You're running through the woods. That other guy's coming through because that other previous delivery man is a b****. Imma do the job. He's paranoid. You run out, suddenly attack them in your big fluffy outfit because you haven't taken it off. Nobody could get close enough to you. You're danger.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So you still got it. You come out looking like some crazy creature they can't identify. You don't look human because of what you're wearing, but you kind of do look human because of your general shape, except you're not making sense. You're making crazy sounds like the ones we just heard.

Cristina: And you're foaming at the mouth.

Jack: You're foaming out of the mouth. You're crawling. So it's somewhere between animalistic and not. Your higher brain functions are shutting off because of the rabies. And the hallucination are coming on because of the rabies as well as because of the poisoning, probably from mercury. You have a ton of symptoms stacking up on top of each other. And then you go and you bite the guy on Top of your struggle, you're fighting him, you're fighting yourself. You bite him, you scratch him. He panics. He manages to get out in time. He leaves the package behind. He gets back to town, he's like, I was attacked by that thing.

Cristina: Oh, no.

Jack: There is a f****** werewolf out there. You don't know that. That bite has f***** you up.

Cristina: Yep. So.

Jack: So you have the bite. This guy's been living in the woods God knows how long, going crazy. He's gonna die soon anyways because he has rabies. Your s*** gets f***** up. You start developing a fever. The wound gets infected. You start getting started, starting to hallucinate, developing fevers and developing crazy behaviors. They're, like, associated with the thing. Yeah. Becoming a werewolf, they think, dude, you got whatever that guy got.

Cristina: Yeah. Then their solution to hunt down that guy.

Jack: No. Their solution is we gotta give you some s*** to cure you.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: But in those times, you go to nat to the means, you know, back to alchemy. So you give this person something that basically accelerates their behavior and behaves like bath salts. On top of the fact that the rabies was already causing a series of symptoms that are very crazy. Animalistic psychosis, hallucination.

Cristina: So he goes through the same thing the other guy is going through times two.

Jack: Yeah, I guess literally exactly what the other guy's going through. You're going through the symptoms of rabies plus the symptoms of, essentially, bath salts put together. And they're watching you slowly become animalistic.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: You're becoming a beast to them.

Cristina: Didn't they stab you in the forehead to see if you're a werewolf?

Jack: No, probably. A lot of the times they probably just ended up killing these people. Now, there are a couple of things that could enhance this narrative. It depends on who gets it. There's actually a condition called hypotrichosis, which is the growth of excessive body hair. And it could grow not just everywhere on your body, but it includes your face.

Cristina: Yeah. So you could have seen people. Yeah. That look like. They kind of look like wolf people. Yeah. Yeah. Like what you'd imagine, like in a corny werewolf movie. They kind of look like that.

Jack: Yeah, you could have. Yeah, exactly. Like. Like wolf man or some s***.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So you could have this condition and go through all the same symptoms. I just said you actually don't even have to go through s***. You could have been attacked by a wolf and seen a man with this condition walking through the woods.

Cristina: Yeah. Well, even if he didn't attack you, just seeing this man through the woods Is probably frightening enough.

Jack: Yeah, fair enough. But in order to get the condition in which we see somebody get infected and then become, then we must consider that the person that they saw who had hypertrichosis was a person who also had rabies. So maybe this guy in the woods has rabies, has hypertrichosis. He doesn't. He looks deformed to you, Harry. Everywhere, you can't really tell. Runs out he has rabies. He's crazy. Comes in, he attacks you. He bites you, freaks out, runs off into the woods. You swear that was a wolf man. You go back home, then you're starting to freak out. You're starting to have symptoms. The local alchemist comes and he gives you your toxic poison that's gonna make you worse than that guy who only had rabies. But now you're freaking out quicker and sooner and behaving like a psychopath. And they swear you're becoming a werewolf. Yeah, yeah.

Cristina: Yes, Yes, I could see that.

Jack: Now, there are specific circumstances that are very interesting relative to the story. And in the case of the woods, the brightest nights in the woods are full moons, because the moon is reflecting the most light back down to earth. Meaning you can see things in the woods, most likely during a full moon than any other time of the month. Meaning anything you'd probably already see anyways if you could. Yeah, you're just way more aware of during a full moon. And if there's people normally roaming the woods but you can't see them, maybe they live in the woods.

Cristina: Yeah, you're more likely to see them in the full moon.

Jack: Yep. Full moon comes through and you're like, they're out only during the full moon. Not really. They're always there.

Cristina: That's where the whole full moon thing comes from as well. Transforming during a full moon.

Jack: Yes, yes. It's just that that one is entirely circumstantial that that's happening. So the we can assume that the first delivery guy probably was making that delivery close to ordering a full moon.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And then that's why he saw what he saw. He heard the wolf looking into the woods. He saw a figure roaming while the other guy had less visibility. The full moon is gone. The delivery still has to be made. It's been a couple of days. We need to get this out there. People are too scared. I'm the brave one. I'll go do it. But now it's way darker. You have way less moonlight.

Cristina: Then you get surprised.

Jack: Then you get surprised.

Cristina: Okay, now you have.

Jack: With less visibility. You don't know what's happening, how long.

Cristina: That you're sick for and when you're at your worst. And then it just happens to be a full moon when you're getting really bad.

Jack: Yeah. Not only, only that, the possibility that you run off before any of that. Like they don't see you become hairy, they see you run off into the same woods they're accusing people of being werewolves in. But that place already has wolves. If by any chance wolves are hungry, you roam into the woods. One, they're killing you. Second, they're not leaving just because they ate you. So people are gonna be like became a werewolf. I can hear him out there.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So you ran off into the woods because you're crazy and irrational. Got eaten by wolves. But the number of wolves are still there.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So they're just associating the wolves they're seeing with oh, one of them is him.

Cristina: Yes. They're gonna think one of them are you unless they burn the body. I think they have to burn the body and then that wolf you will die too.

Jack: But that's way in the future after these stories become more prominent and everybody knows. So this is around the face that building solutions for the werewolf. We can't have them adding to the werewolves in the forest because it's going to make it impossible for us to travel if it's just packed with werewolves. So we got to dispose of anybody who's infected. Yes, that's where that solution comes in. Because it becomes a problem if everybody who goes out either never comes back. Which means they got killed or they became one of them.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And that also creates the circumstance where you are traveling in large caravans. So you build large groups, you no longer make deliveries as individuals. But wolves stay away from groups larger than their own because they don't want to be the prey. So when there's a ton of people together, the wolves aren't coming out to play. They're gonna f****** hide. Same thing happens with native tribes. They don't know these f****** white skinned people coming through. If it's just one of them and there's a f*** ton you, that's cool. But if they're roaming together with gun and f****** carriages, you're not f****** with that.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So in large groups they're safer. And then caravans form and they start traveling like that instead. So people only see werewolves when they cannot confirm that it is in fact not.

Cristina: So when you're alone, when you're.

Jack: Yeah, when there's either less of you.

Cristina: Or you're alone to actually investigate or yes.

Jack: When you're too scared to think clearly.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: That's when you're more likely to see a werewolf. And again, it's just an alignment of situations. A person with this condition could run outside, get rabies, behave like an animal. It could have been a slave that got away. They have dark skin in any of these cases. Any of them could have had liver damage, creating the yellow eyes. In the case of any dark skinned individual, whether it be the native or the slave, could have. You can see their teeth in the dark, even if their skin is dark. If it was a native, they have, using any of their tribal wear, they have large outfits that make them look disproportionate but still humanoid. There are many, many, many. And the woods equals wolves instinctively.

Cristina: Yeah. That's the biggest thing though for the werewolves is just you're surrounded by wolves.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, you're definitely surrounded by wolves. And that creates a pretty vivid picture for people. And the solutions that come as time goes by are just all a product of this. So we have individuals believing, just experimenting, essentially. You gotta try to cure them, you gotta try to kill them, you gotta try to. You do everything you can. This is where we bring in the scientists of the times. Which probably led to a lot of torture.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Because we think of like the Salem witch trials when the things they did there, this is no different, this is just a new, a new foe to them. You know, some new circuit circumstances. They got to learn to navigate.

Cristina: There were strange things we talked about that they do. Like the stabbing on the forehead.

Jack: Yep.

Cristina: We're cutting the skin to see if there's fur behind the skin.

Jack: That as well. Especially if it's somebody with a hypertrichosis. But they wouldn't have the fur inside, they would have it outside, which is.

Cristina: Yeah. So I don't think there'll be any tests. You. That person's a werewolf.

Jack: That person's a werewolf. Yeah.

Cristina: Test for that.

Jack: That person is definitely a werewolf. But this brings in another interesting point. This is unrelated to all those things, but related to the entire idea that there is a condition which makes a person believe that they are a shapeshifter. It's called clinical lisanthropy. And people with this condition, it's a psychological affliction which causes delusions of one having been or currently being a shapeshifter most commonly associated with werewolves.

Cristina: But that means that they also. There are some that have different animals in mind.

Jack: Yes. But now let's reassociate this with the story you hear about the Werewolf. Nobody thinks anything about it. The story flies through the town. Oh, he talking. Oh, no, that guy's crazy. He's always talking nonsense like that. You don't have to believe him. But then the second guy comes and he's like, I saw it. I was attacked by it. And then he, quote, turns into it, unquote.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Now the fear is in the town. There's f****** werewolves out there. Two different people in two different circumstances have seen it. One of them was attacked by it. And somebody can develop this condition out of fear. The trauma alone could make them believe.

Cristina: That they're aware that they're werewolf.

Jack: So they'll think I either got bitten at some point and I don't know, or something along those lines. And then they start freaking out. And then they start showing weird behaviors that they think are what a werewolf would do, then causing other people to panic.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Now this leads us into a circumstance where we have somebody who is not transformed but claiming to be. Probably even claiming to have gotten bitten.

Cristina: Or maybe he drank that wolf water.

Jack: Well, that's a weird one. But you don't have a full moon yet, and that's usually when you see them. This person hasn't transformed and there hasn't been a full moon yet. Now you start making these sort of unnecessary associations of there hasn't been a full moon, they're bitten, they haven't turned, and that's the only time we see them. Do they only turn during full moons?

Cristina: Oh, okay, yeah.

Jack: You're starting to connect all the dots. So what? The people who catalog these things. Things, they start connecting random f****** dots. And it's like the first sighting during a moon during full moon. Second and third sightings during full moon. But the attack happened during a regular night, meaning the full moon turned them. And then they had. They were already this in the woods, just roaming aimlessly so they afterwards couldn't go back. They turned during the full moon, which is why we see more of them then. And then they're just out there stuck in this form.

Cristina: Okay, and then. But then why isn't this one like.

Jack: Because there's no full moon yet. That's where the panic starts. That's probably why they are more likely. We got to figure the salute, we got to solve the problem before the full moon. Or kill them.

Cristina: And then they end up killing.

Jack: Then they end up killing them. This is where the experimentation phases come in, where they end up stabbing somebody in the f****** head.

Cristina: Burning them alive.

Jack: Burning them alive and things of that nature.

Cristina: Where does the silver come from just a random torture tool that just got on, like, catch.

Jack: That's a weird one, right?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Now, in thinking about this whole shapeshifter thing, I started digging into that, trying to find out if there are any creatures in nature that shapeshift that have the ability to shapeshift. To my disappointment, there is no land creature that could do it. The closest thing is a frog that changes its color at will and some reptiles.

Cristina: Yeah, but what about butterflies? I mean, a caterpillar turning into a butterfly, that's pretty shape shifting.

Jack: No, I mean like actively changing its shape. Okay, that's your butterfly. Your butterfly, yeah. Saying like swamping from one to the other. And the only examples of this in nature are cephalopods, which include octopuses, squids, cuttlefish, and nautilus.

Cristina: So they're all very similar.

Jack: Yeah, they're all pretty, pretty similar. They imitate their environment. They change their body shape by aligning because they're boneless. They get kind of like assort themselves in weird ways and they all have the capacity to change color.

Cristina: That helps. I guess that helps.

Jack: Yeah. But there doesn't seem to be any examples of this in nature other than those things. There doesn't seem to be land versions of these creatures.

Cristina: There's no Boo. That's so sad.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's definitely problematic because there is the lacking of where the original idea of a person turning into it come from. Because the best we can do is assume somebody saw a wolf or heard a wolf and then saw a person.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It makes more sense if he saw somebody with hypertrichosis. So you hear a wolf and then you see maybe a Native American wandering the woods. And you can tell them very easily, but they're covered in fur, including their face. And you're like, that's what I saw. Heard howling. That's a wolf, man. Whatever the f*** you know.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So I don't entirely have any other path there than that because there is no shape shifting in nature, per se.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But that brings us to an interesting detail though, which is at the end of your episode, we got to the conclusion that it's completely possible that a werewolf and a vampire are similar and a not just similar, but probably the same creature.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: We're talking about a creature that either drinks blood or eats people. In every one of these instances, the werewolf, it took us getting to the story of somebody seeing bodies at war that were drained of blood. The vampires are commonly discussed as showing up in the middle of nowhere and biting somebody.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And the chupacabra very similarly goes and drains animals that it can of blood.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Doing like looking into this, the, the most interesting connecting line here was lysanthropy, which makes people believe that they are a shapeshifter. And that's fascinating because it's common most commonly for a werewolf.

Cristina: That's very strange that it's most commonly for a werewolf.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Most commonly that they believe they're like half dog or something. But at no moment does it prevent them from thinking they're becoming a different type of dog or creature. Four legged creature. They're turning into some other s***, maybe even a bat sometimes. Who knows what they think they're turning into. It's the fact that these people believe they're turning into something.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And that's a common thread between all those things that I found particularly interesting that they could all root back to this condition and rumors of this condition.

Cristina: It could be all on this. Wait, do you mean like vampires and chupacabras could somehow.

Jack: If they. If it's not all real. But they are all so similar. It's either the regional differences of everything. If we think the difference between a Sasquatch, Bigfoot and the Yeti, it's like the same creature. You're just talking about different places.

Cristina: Yeah. You know, in some places though, instead of werewolf, there's like were hyena or were, you know, other creatures.

Jack: Yes, yes. I'm thinking that a werewolf to the west is a vampire to Europe the same way that a Chupacabra is to the southwest. I'm thinking it's regional and they're talking about the same thing every time. The stories were because of the culture.

Cristina: And the area depends on what animals around them.

Jack: Yes, that's a big influencer, what they're likely to see. Why is it that the west is so prominent with werewolves, but wolves are so prominent in the west?

Cristina: Because they're scared of wolves. Exactly.

Jack: It's in the area you are where the thing came to be. So there's a wolf man because you're surrounded by wolves. But in the south there are other creatures. You live by jungles, you live by deserts, you live in very specific circumstances. So you're gonna have some not wolf kind of dog like thing happening over there. Sometimes they describe it even being like a little dinosaur, which is probably just a f****** lizard of some sort.

Cristina: They describe it as a dinosaur?

Jack: Yeah, like a little dinosaur. The chupacara. That looks.

Cristina: Oh, okay. Yes, yes.

Jack: Yeah. So it's probably just some sort of lizard of which they have f*** tons.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Because jungle's everywhere.

Cristina: Yeah. Whatever they're afraid of.

Jack: Whatever they're afraid of. Whatever's in your region is most likely what your big bad monster is made of.

Cristina: Yeah. And people like before, though, I think it helped them explain serial killers with werewolves. Of the idea of, like, how could a human murder all these people?

Jack: Well, that's actually interesting, the possibility that it's a way to tell a story without making people inherently evil. Because we have a tendency of thinking we're superior, then we have to keep that idea moving forward. So even if we might know it was a person, we don't want our kids to know what's a person. So we make up a story and we tell them the story to explain things away.

Cristina: And we might also believe these stories because we don't want to believe we could. We're capable of doing something like that.

Jack: Here's where the twist of information that I mentioned at the beginning of the episode comes in.

Cristina: In what?

Jack: Because somebody makes up the fairy tale.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: But how long before. How many generations go by before you don't know where it came from? And it's just a story of something that did happen. And the person who said it probably even had that in mind. They come. They just tell it like it's real.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Then a couple of generations down, nobody knows where it came from. They just know it's a story about a series of events. Not that it's a fairy tale. Then you have this creature is real because these many people experienced it at these times and it's somewhere. But you gotta be careful. But really it's just a bunch of psychopathic murderers or tribe sacrificing people or some s***.

Cristina: Yeah. That's crazy. What if though? Well, now I wonder if there was also, like, besides blaming murderers as werewolves, maybe cannibals.

Jack: I definitely think that's a big one. In times when total crucial survival was needed. Anybody who's starving. Like there was a lot of cannibalism back then.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So for survival sake.

Cristina: But once that's over and they're still eating, then.

Jack: But also not just that. Like you could just be killed by a pack of wolves.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: You could just have been murdered by random pack of wolves while you're were making your f******. There was never anything. It was just wolves.

Cristina: But you find your dead body covered in fur or something.

Jack: Yeah. But people are like, you know, I can handle wolves, but can you handle a werewolf?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it could also be a tactic of getting people's stupidity in check oh.

Cristina: But you know, people still believe in werewolves, right? There are people who believe it.

Jack: What, today?

Cristina: Yeah. Like there was recently a dog or I guess a dog, a creature that they couldn't tell what the creature was, so they needed to take a DNA test of it because they didn't know what it was. I have the picture of it if you want to look at it.

Jack: Sure.

Cristina: This is the creature. And some people thought it was a dire wolf. I guess that's like an ancient wolf.

Jack: Yes, that's a very old wolf.

Cristina: I guess, maybe. But the DNA results was that it was a deformed female gray wolf. Deformed.

Jack: That's interesting.

Cristina: Yeah. Because it has oddly long gray fur, oversized claws and extra large head, which made them. Like there's something weird about this dead dog thing.

Jack: Like it's not like the others.

Cristina: Yeah, yeah. So that's why they were really. That's why they needed the DNA test because it just. It's just something off about this dead creature.

Jack: Interesting, interesting. Is it like larger than usual?

Cristina: Yeah, it's larger than usual. So. But its legs were too short also to be a wolf or a dog. They described it as. So I don't know, like everything else was big except their legs. So it was a really deformed looking wolf dog thing.

Jack: Interesting. I wonder what could have caused this mutation that made it that way. Maybe it had like cerebral palsy or some form of genetic disorder that caused it to be. Did. Did they ever see it alive?

Cristina: I don't think so. I think they found the dead because.

Jack: There'S a bunch of disorders that cause physical defects as well as some of them also cause sort of mental defects. So they could have probably told whether this had some human type of. Really. Because there's animals who've had mental retardation and there's animals who've had cerebral palsy and autism and things of that nature. So they could have perhaps been able to tell if it was alive and they could have seen its behavior.

Cristina: Maybe they. It was alive and they got too scared and decided, you gotta kill it before it kills me.

Jack: People panic.

Cristina: Yeah. It could be a panicky situation.

Jack: Yeah. This is what I found related to werewolves and the origin story of what, where it could have come from or what might have perpetuated the folklore in the first place. Like where did these stories really originate? It. It was probably a collection of circumstances because the probability that anything of this nature is real seems unlikely. Yeah, it seems highly unlikely that a werewolf would be real. It's like all the evidence is painting Pointing towards a collection of events sort of lining up in the right order.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But not like any singular thing could have all of these things all together in one instance. I think it's just circumstantial evidence and superstitious people putting two and two together on top of mixtures of drugs and diseases and fears. Fears. Weird timing. A bunch of put together equals what we know as a werewolf.

Cristina: Yeah. The conclusion is that vampires are cooler than werewolves, though.

Jack: No. The conclusion is the only circumstance that could make a werewolf be real by any means is that it's not a werewolf. The only possible solution for there being a werewolf. It seems like a vampire and a chupacabra are a million times more likely than a werewolf could be. Because a chupacabra is not just considered a creature. It's considered a creature that was probably made in a lab. That seems way more likely. And a vampire could just be a cannibalistic human. Human. Which is also something else.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But the werewolf circumstances. Iffy. It's hard to come across. And it seems like the only way that a werewolf could be is if the other two are also the same thing. If we have a bit of a shape shifter going on, then it could also assume the form of a wolf man or a wolf.

Cristina: But it's hard to prove anything about shape shifting.

Jack: It's hard to prove anything about shape shifting because there's zero evidence in that direction.

Cristina: No. Maybe they're just so sneaky about it.

Jack: How do you prove something is even shifted into a shape?

Cristina: Yeah. I don't know.

Jack: It just looks like something else. But. Yeah. So that's basically what's out there. That's. The possibilities are there's either no werewolf and an alignment of stars led to the stories being born.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Or people trying to explain things away or warn people without scaring them about other people. Made up folklore and fairy tales.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Or f****** shapeshifter. That's it. You're either a shapeshifter, You're a product of a fairy tale that somebody was just using to warn people, or a very specific alignment of events, including drugs and diseases and too many things. Yeah. That one's the least likely is the possibility that it's real.

Cristina: Yeah. Yeah.

Jack: A vampire in a chupacabra. A million times more real than the possibility of a werewolf. A werewolf is just very unlikely.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So that's pretty much what it is. There is no chance that's rooming. Anyways, if you guys enjoyed this, if you guys agree with that, that leave us a Message.

Cristina: If you don't leave us a message.

Jack: Yeah, either way, just tell us what you think about these things. Tell us what you think about werewolves and is. Is it a vampire? Chupacabra? Shapeshifty thingy? Is it an alignment of the stars? Is it a story, a fairy tale? Or do you believe maybe there are werewolves? And I'm up. So let us know. Anyways, you can find the podcast on the official website greatthoughts.info on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and anywhere you get your podcast.

Cristina: And you can reach us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Tick Tock at just Convopod.

Jack: Yes, and remember to subscribe and rate the show. Give us some stars of any amount. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 30, 50, 100. 150 f****** stars. However many stars you think we deserve. And review if you feel something so inclined.

Cristina: And let someone who might like this show know about it.

Jack: Yes, the power of word of mouth. You guys know. Tell people about the show. Tell them, hey, we just proved your crazy theory about werewolves wrong. Bob, you're talking about that werewolf in the woods. You're an idiot. Listen to this show. That proves you wrong. Or Bob, these people say it not, but you got photographic proof of a werewolf. Send it to them. Please do that, Bob.

Cristina: Send us the videos. This has been the Just Conversation podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening.

Jack: Bye.

Cristina: Okay, I'm hanged. So I died to this person.

Jack: But then, oh my God.

Cristina: Come back to listen to a newer episode. You're like, oh my God, she's still alive.

Jack: Hans, bro. Like that.

Cristina: Shocking though, didn't they? Well, it was in one movie I think where they thought his girl died. But then she wasn't dead. She just forgot her memories. But then bro, they do this. Converted her from the bad guy to the good guy anyway. And I don't even know if she gained her memories back.

Jack: I don't. Look, I don't even understand.

Cristina: She a new person who just. I don't fell in love with him.

Jack: Understand why this works. Wasn't a in movie reveal. They showed us this. What could be left inside that movie that's gonna blow our Brian.

Cristina: He's gonna come back.

Jack: He's gonna come back and it isn't even gonna be like his brother look alike. We're just gonna have Paul Walker in the movie. I like. What else could possibly happen?

Cristina: What is the point of showing us that? I don't know. And then it's crazy. Good morning.

Jack: Dub a dub. Dub dub.

Cristina: Good morning. The Just Conversation podcast is hosted by Christina Colazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by Great Thoughts info, art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McAllister with social media managed by Amber Black.

November 07, 2020

Rambling 108: Werewolf Folklore

November 07, 2020/ GreyThoughts.Info

Werewolf, THe Just Conversation Podcast, Horror, Scary, Vampire, Mytical

What are the real stories about werewolves and where do they come from? Werewolves and the Folklore surrounding their mystery is discussed.

Story:
The duo begins a new case about werewolves and they begin with the folklore and tales surrounding them. From origins to methods of disposing of them. But diving deep takes the duo down rabbits holes they never expected to go. The connections they discover reveal the truth of werewolves rests on a different mythological creature entirely. The question is, how many other creatures are just this one? All that and more on this episode of Just Conversation.

+Episode Details

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Topics Discussed

Abilities of the 7th Son
Werewolf Features
Talking Dogs
Becoming a Werewolf
Curing Werewolf Syndrome
Werewolf War
Killing Werewolves
White Man’s Folklore
Vampire Werewolves
Scolding Werewolves
Adrenochrome
Shapeshifters
Chupacabra

Our Links:

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

April 11, 2020

Rambling 85: The Easter Zombie

April 11, 2020/ GreyThoughts.Info

Jesus, Easter, Easter Zombie, Holidays, Religion, Faith, God, The Just Conversation Podcast

What does Easter have to do with a rabbit? Unpacking the origins of Easter and how Jesus and a mythical rabbit relate.

Story:
The duo plots on escaping the country to Zombie Island as the national shutdown continues to spread. While in the studio they take the opportunity to unpack upcoming Easter and how it relates to other holidays and deities.

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Topics Discussed:

Egg Delivery
Christ Criminal Organization
The Resurrection
The First Zombie
Dracula
Scientist Christ
12 Year Old Apostles
Holy Coma
Mammals
Sonic 7 Crew
Spring

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

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March 21, 2020

Rambling 83: St. Patrick's 3 Wishes

March 21, 2020/ GreyThoughts.Info

Leprechaun, mythology, history, mythical creature, comedy, discussion, fringe, history, truth, science, religion, faith

What miracles did Saint Patrick perform? Unpacking St. Patrick’s day and it’s origin story.

Story:
As the world flees into hiding from the Coronavirus, the clones decide to go on a quest of understanding. They discuss the origin story of St. Patrick’s Holiday and attempt to understand how a man considered a Saint managed to force the Christian god Jehovah to do his bidding and grant him three wishes. In doing so our heroes discover unimaginable truths about Saint Patrick that will change what they believe and alter their lives forever. All that and more on this episode of Just Conversation.

+ Episode Details

Topics Discussed

Evicting The Snakes
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Kids in Barrels
Saint Nick and Child Trafficking
Wizards
Strong Arming God
St. Patrick’s 3 Wishes
1) Be The Best Saint
2) Take God’s Judgement Job
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Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

December 21, 2019

Rambling 73: Christmas Special

December 21, 2019/ GreyThoughts.Info

Christmas%2C+Santa%2C+Gifts%2C+history%2C+Mythology%2C+Mythical%2C+Urban+Legend%2C+Discussion%2C+Debate%2C+Thought%2C+Idea

Christmas, the relationship between the monk Saint Nicholas, Jesus Christ and Santa Clause and the the nature of holiday traditions are discussed.

Story:
With the cat people being interrogated by the Illuminati, the reptilians imprisoned on mars, the subhumans back in their Chinese facilities and the year rushing towards its end, the clone due find themselves with little else to do than get ready for the coming holidays. Thus, this Christmas special arise. The clones crack open a personal investigation into the origins of Christmas and where it might be heading in the future as a way to close off the year.

+ Episode Details

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Merry Christmas vs Happy Holidays
Is Santa Jesus?
Mr. Rogers, Murder Suicide
St. Nick vs Mr. Rogers
Krampus and Santa
The Judging System
Coca Cola Santa Origins
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X Means Jesus
The War on Christmas
Existence Anxiety
Mass Murder Challenge
Night of the Radish
Growing Consciousness

This episode of Just Conversation is brought to you by Audible. Get a free audiobook with a 30-day trial membership. Just go to https://audibletrial.com/justconvopod

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November 23, 2019

Rambling 70: Thanksgiving Special

November 23, 2019/ GreyThoughts.Info

Thanksgiving, The Just Conversation Podcasts, Slavery, Pilgrims, Indians, Native americans, Turkey, History, Theory, Fact

Thanksgiving’s origin, its connection to the Christian religion and how its rooted in Pagan ideologies are discussed.

Story:
As they wait for the subhumans the scour the lake floors of the world in search of intergalactic portals or secret underwater laboratories, the clone discuss thanksgiving with the intention of getting to the bottom of its narrative. They dig deep and find that many things believed about the holiday never occurred and uncover a multitude of layers involving several religions, twisted ideologies, myths, legends and human sacrifices. All that and more on this episode of Just Conversation.

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Topics Discussed

Reptilian Native Americans
Christopher Columbus the Cannibal
Murdering Native Turkeys
The Seven Deadly Holidays
Christianity’s Pagan Origin
The Human Sacrifice, Jesus Christ
Diabolical Catholic Rituals
The Usefulness of Religion
The Myth of the Pilgrims
Religion’s Adaptive Nature

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None of This is Real Podcast (Promo at the Start of the show)

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The Rob & Slim Show (Promo at the End of the show)

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October 19, 2019

Rambling 66: Early Halloween Spooktacular

October 19, 2019/ GreyThoughts.Info

Spooky, Halloween, Podcast, The Just Conversation Podcast, Theory, Idea, Research, culture, tradition, holiday, celebration

Demon possessions, the nature of good and evil magic, sleep paralysis and personal haunting experiences are discussed for this early Halloween episode!

Story:
Approaching Halloween the clone due is directed by the Illuminati to investigate demon possessions as a general subject to reveal what the cause might be. The investigation leads them into the subject matter of magic where they discover the baffling truth behind good and evil magic and the lies the masses have been told in reference to this. They close off by reflecting on related personal experiences of dark and twisted encounters

Episode Details

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A sea of True Crime Podcasts
Halloween
The White Man’s Fault
Demon Possessions
The Price of Exorcisms
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Nature is Evil
Righteous Technology
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Astral Projection
The Haunting of Clinton Road
The KKK
Personal Horror Stories

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Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

August 17, 2019

Rambling 59: The Chupacabra

August 17, 2019/ GreyThoughts.Info

The Chupacabra, Creatures, Monsters, Animal, Conspiracy Theory, Alien, Bigfoot, The Loch Ness Monster, Dog, Fox, Mutant, The Just Conversation Podcast

An attempt to reason down all the collected chupacabra lore and sightings throughout the decades is made.

Story:
After learning the secrets of magic from reptilians in Mars internment camps the duo returns to NASA HQ to brief the mission director and the scientists that they’ve acquired the necessities for them and the Subhumans to survive the trip to Alpha Centuri. While they wait to meet with the lead scientists they decide to break open the case of the Chupacabra and find out its true origins.

+ Show Notes

Topics Discussed

Alpha Centuri
Coyote Chupacabra
Chimera
Scientific Experiments
Inbred Albino Dwarfs
Winged Snakes
Reptilian Alien
Bird Box Alien Shapeshifters
MewTwo
Alien Scientists
Diseased Animals
Deformed Animals
Blood Sucking

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