Rambling 127: Loki and Friends
/What is Loki’s role in the apocalyptic Ragnarok? How do his children fit into the equation? What is the ultimate goal? Loki and his children unpacked on this episode.
Digging deeper into Loki and his history the duo uncover a winding roller-coaster of irrational activities and hijinks done by the trickster god Loki. The rabbit whole goes so deep that it reaches the other end at bestiality and cross-dressing. All that and more on this episode of Rambling.
+Episode Details
Topics Discussed
- Shapeshifters
- Giants
- Ragnarok
- Loki’s Children
- The 9 Realms
- Thor vs The World Serpent
- Eating Contest for Gods
- Loki’s Stand-Up Comedy
- Bestiality
- God Party
- Greek Mythology
- Norse Mythology
- Loki’s Torture
- Crossdressing Thor
Our Links:
Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast
Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod
Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod
Instagram - https://instagram.com/justconvopod
+Transcript
Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.
Jack: Going live in 5, 4.
Cristina: What does live mean? Welcome to Just Conversation, the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas in childish ways. I'm your host, Christina.
Jack: And I'm Jack.
Cristina: And if you haven't yet, remember to hit that subscribe button to get notified the second new episodes are released.
Jack: Yes. And also, this show is way more enjoyable with the listening partner. So be sure to grab somebody by their arm while they're riding the train without them knowing you. And you just grab them, Grab their hand. You touch their hand while they're just distracted holding on in the train or whatever. You know, you just touch your hand.
Cristina: You'Re like, hey, that's so discerning.
Jack: You stare at them. You stare at them like, hey, when they pull their hand back, you're like, I just want to listen to a podcast with you. And they will want to listen to. They're gonna be like, oh, yeah, that's different.
Cristina: Oh, yeah, that's different. Yeah.
Jack: Well, that's different. We can listen to a podcast and then they'll grab your hand.
Cristina: Really? They're gonna grab. They're gonna be holding hands?
Jack: Yes. And they're gonna share the headphones with a complete stranger. Yeah.
Cristina: What?
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: That's horrible. That's so horrible.
Jack: I don't know why it's horrible if the person doesn't want it, but once you explain it to listen to a podcast, I'll be like, okay, that's different. Grab.
Cristina: We live in a zombie apocalypse. That person can be a zombie.
Jack: Yeah, sure. It's totally fine.
Cristina: That's fine. I don't know. He might be carrying the disease. That's virus. Yes.
Jack: Is it a virus? We could call it a virus.
Cristina: It's a super virus. Is he gonna turn people into zombies? Eventually, man.
Jack: A strain is gonna do it. It's just evolving so rapidly.
Cristina: Yeah. So eventually we'll have zombies here.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: Okay. So last time you were here talking about nature and how people used to explain it with different myths, and one of them was very interesting, which was Loki's son being able to imprint on the planet with one foot, even though he has eight, but for some reason, one foot touched the ground and left a mark, and we thought that was really hilarious. Well, that wasn't hilarious. How he was born was really hilarious. Remember that story?
Jack: Yes. But it was kind of funny that he would imprint on the ground and then. Or not imprint, but he would leave a print on the ground and then Gods that would, in theory, ride this f****** horse, fit inside the hole that it's.
Cristina: Well, Loki can turn into different things. Why can't the gods? I guess, you know, they turn. They all turn into raccoons or something. I don't know. But Loki does have amazing powers. And yeah, he turned into a horse, a female horse. To have sex with a horse, to have a baby. Which was a giant eight legged horse.
Jack: Right. So because him becoming a horse and then f****** a horse doesn't equal horse baby because he's a God.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Him f******. Or I guess getting f***** by her. Because keep in mind he's not doing the f******. He doesn't like to f*** horses. He likes to get f***** by horses.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Big difference.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Mad.
Cristina: He's half God if you look at his DNA.
Jack: Half God.
Cristina: Yes. Or maybe people are unsure what his mother was. His dad was for sure a giant.
Jack: Right. Which isn't a God.
Cristina: Which isn't a God. And then his mom may or may not be a God. I think she may be a God because of how strange his babies are. And like the three.
Jack: The eight legged freak and his powers.
Cristina: And his powers.
Jack: Like what explains the powers if it ain't a God?
Cristina: Well, there is one story where a giant shape shifts into a falcon, which. And I don't think I've read a story about a God. Shapeshift thing. Yeah. So that might be a giant power. A power for the giants is shapeshifting.
Jack: Right. But that's not his only power.
Cristina: No, well, that's his only like main power. I don't know what his other powers are. He's cunning. They always say he's a cunning trickster. Like I don't know if that's a power, but.
Jack: Okay, that's weird. So he doesn't have like he's. There's no sign of him having other God like powers. I feel like he does like super strength. But that could be a giant thing.
Cristina: That could be a giant thing too. Like, how do you. Which side do you put it towards?
Jack: So what you're telling me is he would in theory just get smacked down by one of the gods of Asgard?
Cristina: Definitely.
Jack: Like way too easily. But he's basically like Batman to the other f****** Justice League members. Like he's too witty to be beat by just their muscles.
Cristina: The only reason I think his mom is probably a God is because he has a special pact with Odin. And I don't think Odin would have made any type of pact with a giant because their hate for giants is ridiculous.
Jack: They're racist.
Cristina: They're very racist. The gods hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate giants. So I don't. I can't imagine that Odin would be like, okay, we'll make this deal together, or whatever happened.
Jack: But Odin likes Loki.
Cristina: I wouldn't say he likes him.
Jack: He likes him more than other giants.
Cristina: He lets him in Asgard because he must be half. That's why I think he's also half giant. I mean, half God. Because only gods hang out in Asgard and he. They have huge problem with giants.
Jack: Except Valkyries hang out in Asgard.
Cristina: Valkyries might be a type of God, so.
Jack: Because I remember specifically on that episode we were debating whether that was the case.
Cristina: Yeah, I don't remember because I know there's also. There's two types of gods, actually. I didn't know there's like two God race.
Jack: There's God and demigods.
Cristina: I don't know where the other gods live, but they live on. They have their own realm because, you know, there's nine realms.
Jack: Yeah, something like that.
Cristina: And, and I think they've been in war and stuff, but I don't really know the backstory to any of that.
Jack: Gods with gods.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Interesting.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: So, but kind of like gods with giants.
Cristina: Yeah, Gods and giants which then later.
Jack: Got turned into Greek mythologies.
Cristina: Titans versus the gods which came first, Greek or Norse?
Jack: Norse.
Cristina: Norse for sure.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: Okay. I don't know. That's true. But we don't even know all the stories of Norse because it was all written by Christians. So we have the. Whatever came out from that. We don't know what the original stories were, what they truly, truly, truly were believing in. These are just.
Jack: Who, the Norse.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Oh, they stole from Hinduism.
Cristina: Oh, okay. But like the stories that they have now are the Christianized version. Sort of.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: Because they went around writing everything for everyone else because they were the writers. They. Well, you know, they had written language, I guess the Christians and whatever.
Jack: Yeah, yeah.
Cristina: So Loki is probably half God anyway. Loki, I think is a God. Half God at least. Because his children are so strange. Like the eight legged horse. I think if he was just a giant, his children would be more normal. Well, maybe not the eight legged horse one. That's a bad example because he was with a horse. But with the other children he has, he had them with a giant or most of them. He did have some kids with a God. His wife is a God and they had, I think one or two sons. People aren't really sure and they seem normal, like normal people. So like, like gods like gods? Yeah, like gods. There was no weird descriptions about those children that he had with his wife.
Jack: The.
Cristina: But with the giant there was very weird children. Very weird. Which is. He has three children with his wife. Not with a wife, with the giant. He has three children with the giant, which are a wolf, a snake and a goddess. Her name is Hel, but she's not a normal goddess. If you look at her like, her description is, she's half alive and half dead. So there's something weird about her too, in appearance.
Jack: But she's not a giant.
Cristina: No, she's a goddess. But she happens to look very odd. And I think it's because. It's because of whatever. Loki is just being a God. Having sex with something that's not a God. Would it make something strange like that?
Jack: Yeah. I didn't think about this before, but I guess his banging of things equals the giant, because he's a giant. So if you banged the normal snake, his giantness made a giant snake as a result. It wasn't his godness, it was his giantness that made a giant snake.
Cristina: Yes, but he was having sex with the giant. So my other thing is that maybe he was also a giant snake while he was having sex with her.
Jack: The snake was giant.
Cristina: No, his child is giant.
Jack: Yes. But the snake he was having sex.
Cristina: With, he wasn't having sex with the snake. He was having sex with a giant.
Jack: And that led to a snake.
Cristina: Yes, which I'm saying.
Jack: He was a snake.
Cristina: He was a snake. Yes, that's what I'm thinking. Oh, s***. He's a shapeshifter.
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: He has a wolf baby and a snake baby and they're both giants. But he could turn into animals.
Jack: But the time he be.
Cristina: He had a horse with a giant horse.
Jack: So he actually got f***** by a horse that time.
Cristina: Yes, that was giant. A giant horse. And he was a giant.
Jack: He's just into. He's like giant pansexual.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: He loves whatever. Yeah. Or get f***** by.
Cristina: I mean, he still has babies with his goddess, but he doesn't love her or anything. Like, he's like. He gets bored of her and that's why he finds the giants who have.
Jack: And she's like half dead, isn't she?
Cristina: No, that's his child that's half dead. Oh. His wife is normal. She's completely normal. She's probably a very kind God. There's not much about her, but she's important in the. In Ragnarok.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: Or not Ragnarok. In his binding before that happens.
Jack: Right. So Loki shape shifts and then flux. Giants.
Cristina: Yes. Well, one giant. Well, yes, two giants, so yeah, giants. Yes, he loves giants. Okay.
Jack: And he has three giants.
Cristina: Three giants.
Jack: Wolf, horse, snake.
Cristina: Yes. He had three giant babies, a giant wolf, a giant snake and a giant horse. Yes. And these three children though, that he has with the giant, are predicted to be part of the end of the world. Which is Ragnarok.
Jack: Which is prophesied.
Cristina: Yeah, which is prophesied. So then Odin takes them and separates them. I don't know why.
Jack: Because the prophecy is against Odin.
Cristina: Yes, I know that part. Why didn't he just murder them? His plan is very strange because for the wolf he can grow forever. So they keep trying to chain him up. They keep him in Asgard with the other gods to just keep chaining him up. And he keeps breaking out of it because he keeps growing. And eventually they do trick him into getting chained up by a magical chain made from a dwarf. He bites off a God's hand while they do that, though. That's pretty cool. I mean, maybe not cool like that God lives with one hand now. But I'm sure it could grow back.
Jack: Probably.
Cristina: I don't know. It's weird that he wouldn't grow it back, but I guess he doesn't feel like growing it back.
Jack: Maybe he can't. Maybe it's kind of like God standards of like, what is Superman in his home planet if not just another normal dude. Oh, so like to us they're gods.
Cristina: But like around each other they're like.
Jack: They're normal.
Cristina: Normal. That's why Oren only has one eye.
Jack: Like. Yeah. Compared to us they're gods.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: But they still have like weaknesses and s***.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Around each other they're just people. It's comparatively. God.
Cristina: Yes. Yeah, so they're pretty normal. They get hurt and stuff because that guy gets his friggin hand ripped off. But then they do bond.
Jack: What's weird about Ragnarok is the fact that Odin is the reason it happens through his actions. Trying to stop it. That's sort of the loop there.
Cristina: He should have murdered these children.
Jack: No, it wouldn't work.
Cristina: It wouldn't work.
Jack: It wouldn't work. It would somehow feed into the plan.
Cristina: Oh, okay.
Jack: I actually think the attempt at killing them is also part of the plan.
Cristina: He doesn't though. I think the only one, he's. I guess you could say he did. I'm not sure. Because when he throwed. Threw out the snake out of the world and it ends up on Earth, like, was he thinking that like throwing him out would kill the snake. Like, was that the only child he actually tried to kill? And it just survived its fall and then just kept growing?
Jack: I don't know.
Cristina: Okay. But that's one of the things he did, was throw him there on the world. What's it's called?
Jack: Midgard.
Cristina: Midgard. Us. Our planet. I think that's a cooler name than Earth. Midgard. Yeah, I like that.
Jack: But an Asgard is cooler than heaven. Yeah, but it's just cuz we're used to hearing it.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: If we lived in Midgard, like Earth, that's cool.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: But yeah. No, I believe that any step Odin takes, kind of fits into the plan one way or another.
Cristina: Yeah. He just doesn't understand how.
Jack: Doesn't understand how at all.
Cristina: That's why he's always fighting it. But it's gonna happen no matter what.
Jack: Oh, okay. Here's the problem. Here's the problem. We as people get told the story of Ragnarok and of Norse mythology. And how all that plays out after we have the full picture.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: We have to think about it from before the entire story was written and happened. Which happens in the time that Odin sees into the future. That's why he doesn't have an eye. It was part of a trade or some s***.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: And in seeing into the future, he saw the result. And he knew who would be involved, but he didn't know how. And ever since, every step he takes seems to feed into it. So he almost becomes like the perpetuator of his own demise, trying to stop it.
Cristina: Ragnarok hasn't happened yet. Just to let you know. It's not. It hasn't happened yet. We're still living pre Ragnarok. Because once it happens, everything is going to be destroyed. All the nine realms and all that stuff.
Jack: That's weird. I thought Ragnarok already happened.
Cristina: Nope. It's the future. It's. Yeah, it's the future. It's like in the end of Christian.
Jack: No, that makes sense. I thought the idea was that after Ragnarok happened, that's how we ended up with the world the way it is. Without gods interacting with us.
Cristina: Really?
Jack: Yeah, I thought that's. That's what happened. The result of Ragnarok was a bunch of gods were dead. And humans then got to flourish successfully without the oppression of the Asgardians.
Cristina: Oh, no, no. I don't know. No, because they're still collecting souls and stuff for their army.
Jack: We call that heaven now. No, no, that happened already.
Cristina: No, that's weird. That's happening right now. The Valkyries are coming here to collect souls for their army.
Jack: Interesting.
Cristina: It's still.
Jack: Okay, so.
Cristina: So Ragnarok hasn't happened yet.
Jack: So Ragnarok hasn't happened yet.
Cristina: Which is probably a Christian twist on the who. They love that type of apocalyptic ending. They did it for the Bible.
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: Has Jesus coming back and whatever.
Jack: So the question is, did Ragnarok originally happen already in Norse mythology? And then we inherited the earth, but Christianity got a hold of the texts, rewrote them, and when it re entered the remainder of Norse mythology as a reframing.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: It got pushed into the ending the way that the New Testament suggests the apocalypse would happen. Because they are the same thing. Ragnarok is Apocalypsis from the Bible.
Cristina: It's impossible to tell, I think because they didn't have their stories written down beforehand.
Jack: Created by the Christians to begin with.
Cristina: Yeah. So it's hard. So.
Jack: But Loki is the one perpetuating all of Ragnarok to some degree. He plays a million different roles that push this story forward.
Cristina: Ragnarok doesn't begin. I mean, Loki doesn't begin Ragnarok. The beginning of Ragnarok happens when the snake lets go of his tail.
Jack: Why would he do that?
Cristina: Why would he do that?
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: I have no idea. He's ready to destroy the world because for some reason, once that happens, then all the other his siblings and Loki are free from where they're kept. They're somehow also able strong enough to get out of their traps or whatever. That's the beginning of Ragnarok when the snake lets go of his tail. And that's pretty cool. That's not pretty cool. That's whatever. Whatever. Yes.
Jack: Right.
Cristina: And the world serpent, he has a few stories in Norse mythology that they still have, which are always against Thor because they are mortal enemies, his son and himself. Thor is not his.
Jack: Oh, not Thor. Got you. Got you.
Cristina: Thor and the snake.
Jack: Because Thor and the snake.
Cristina: Yeah, yeah. Because he's. They're destined to kill each other.
Jack: Which is part of Ragnarok.
Cristina: That's part of Ragnarok. Yes. Because the snake. Well, in Ragnarok, he's going to poison. Once he lets go of his toe. I guess he's like just hoarding a bunch of venom inside him. And then when he lets go, it all explodes out of him and poisons the sky and the ocean. Maybe that's why Ragnarok begins at that time.
Jack: Could be. Probably.
Cristina: And then the poison is what kills Thor. And after Thor kills him, he gets He. He still dies because of poison.
Jack: Thor.
Cristina: Thor. Yes.
Jack: Got you.
Cristina: Yeah, they. They know like who's gonna die. Like everything's already ran, so it's interesting. Like it's still gonna happen.
Jack: That's how prophecy works, I guess.
Cristina: Yes, yes. It's like time traveling in a weird way.
Jack: It was literally time traveling. He was looking forward in time to see exactly what was gonna happen.
Cristina: Yeah, you know, his. Everything that's happening, like, like whatever. Like if he wanted to know where you were, he could see you. That's kind of like God, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jack: He is the God. God.
Cristina: He is the God because Loki in one of the stories before he gets captured to be trapped forever. He turned into a fish trying to hide that way. But Odin saw him, so they caught him. There's a story where Thor and Loki are traveling through the giants world for some reason. I'm not sure where their aim is, but they end up meeting a giant who has a castle, I guess. And they're. They have a competition with the giant and the giant, I think. I don't know who starts the contest. I think Loki actually starts the contest after the giant makes fun of the gods saying like, oh, you guys aren't as great as you think you are. You're not as strong or you're not as whatever were much better. And so Loki starts off the competition saying he's the fastest eater and he competes with another giant on eating the most food and of course loses. It's such a weird competition. But yeah, they each like. And they have to be in the end of the table and reach the middle with all the food and the other like he was able to eat all of it, but there was still leftovers like bones and you know, things you wouldn't normally. But the giant ate everything off his side.
Jack: That's very weird.
Cristina: That's very weird. But the giant actually was cheating because these weren't really giants. I don't remember what this giant was, but there was a guy that was with him who decided to race a giant to see who's faster. And the giant kept winning. And it turned out he was Thoth itself.
Jack: Who, the giant?
Cristina: Yes, yes. He was running against Thaw, but he couldn't win because it's so.
Jack: It was the embodiment of thinking.
Cristina: Yes. I can't remember what Loki was against, but it was something ridiculous like that, of course. And then Thor had two. I remember only like two things he had to do. One was to drink from one of the giants cups or whatever and he Just. He couldn't drink it all. But the giant said that he was actually drinking their lake water. And he was worried that he was gonna drink it all because he was doing really well, even though he wasn't able to do it. And then the second thing that he had to do was to lift the cat. And the cat was actually the world snake disguised as a cat. So he couldn't do it, but he did a really good job. And the giant was still really impressed by him. But he, like Thor, I think, pretty much destroyed the place while he was doing all these things. So the giant was like, you better not return to here ever again. I'm impressed. But never come here again.
Jack: So the world snake could morph.
Cristina: I think the giants did that to the world snake. I don't think the world snake can magically turn into a cat.
Jack: Interesting. So they. The world snake agreed to this.
Cristina: I don't know. He was probably minding his own business, living his life, and then the giant plucked him out somehow.
Jack: Right. Because you can see the World snake from everywhere at all times.
Cristina: On Earth?
Jack: On Earth, yeah.
Cristina: Yes. But I'm guessing these stories are before he was that big because he kept growing and became that big. But these could be before he was that big.
Jack: Right. Which is an unexplained amount of time. It's long from one point to the other.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: They are gods, and they live forever.
Cristina: Mm. There was another story with Thor and the World snake where Thor went fishing with an ox head and he caught the world snake and he hit him with his hammer, and they thought he killed the snake. But I'm assuming that was also another time where the snake wasn't big enough. Like, he wasn't his full size yet.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: And he obviously didn't die because he's in the Ragnarok story. But he thought he killed him in that story.
Jack: Giants never stop growing, period. All of them.
Cristina: I don't know if all giants are like that, but I know Loki's children that are giants are like that.
Jack: Maybe it's a combination of a God. And Loki would be the combination of.
Cristina: A God and a giant.
Jack: And a giant, yes.
Cristina: That's why I think he has weird children. Besides the one that he has with his. With his wife, who is a God. They had a normal God children, as far as I can tell.
Jack: And that's weird.
Cristina: That's weird. Yes, that is weird. Loki also has a daughter named Hel, which is a pretty normal daughter. Besides that, she looks half dead and half alive, and she collects some of the Some of the dead people, the ones that are the wicked ones and the ones that die from sickness and old age, they're not good enough for the. For Odin, who collects half of them, and I don't. Okay, what do I know about her? Well, I don't know much about her, except that they. One of the gods do visit her later on in the story when Loki ends up killing a God. They come to her to revive that. That God, hoping that she would let him back to Asgard. And she says, like, it's fine as long as you can make all the. Everything cry. As long as everything will cry. For this God, which is Baldur, is the God that he killed with a mistletoe. I don't know if you heard of that story.
Jack: No. Baldur is one of Odin's sons, isn't he?
Cristina: I think so. But Loki kills him, sort of. He was jealous of. He was jealous of Boulder because all the gods would. I don't know. They had fun with him because he's. He's pretty much. He's pretty much immune to everything because his mother. After he had a bad dream about dying or like he was gonna have a really painful death, like he prophesies in his nightmares or whatever. His mom, Freya. Was it Freya or Frigg?
Jack: Freya.
Cristina: It's Frigg. There is a Freya, but in this story, it's Frigg.
Jack: Freya's Odin's wife.
Cristina: Freya is not Odin's wife. Frigg is Odin's wife.
Jack: Freya is Freya.
Cristina: It's another God. Freya is another God.
Jack: Freyja is a whole other God.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: I thought Freya was Odin's wife.
Cristina: A lot of people confuse Freya and Frigg because Freya also has a God husband whose name is something similar to Odin, but it's not Odin. It's like Omud or something. I don't know. It starts with O, too, so they get confused, but they're not the same person. After Frigg finds out about Boulder's nightmares, she has all the living creatures promise to not hurt Boulder, except she forgot about the mistletoe. And Loki finds this out because it's. I don't know why she would be honest to anyone about this. It's like a really big deal. But he turns into an old lady and then asks her, hey, what's this guy's deal? He's immune to everything. And she's like, no, I forgot the mistletoe. It's so, like, so peaceful. It would never do anything it's innocent, Right? And, well, she was wrong. Well, I guess it was innocent. It's really. He got a blind God to throw the mistletoe at Boulder and then he died.
Jack: So it's like in making him immune to everything else, like a mistletoe becomes extra powerful.
Cristina: I guess. So he becomes allergic to the mistletoe. I guess that mistletoe really hated him, actually. Or maybe he turned the mistletoe. I'm thinking of the game is. What was it? It was arrow. Well, I don't know if the game is accurate, but it could have been on an arrow, the mistletoe. And then with the mistletoe in shot at him with the arrow that was poisoned with mistletoe. I guess it killed him. So he becomes allergic to mistletoe. It doesn't matter what the weapon is.
Jack: Because, like, yeah, it's literally kryptonite. It turned the mistletoe into kryptonite.
Cristina: Or maybe the mistletoe. Yeah, like I'm trying to understand. Like, it's very strange. The mistletoe didn't kill him. I would think the arrow killed him. But the mistletoe made. Weakened him. Yes. Weakened that spot. And then. So the arrow could actually hurt him.
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: And then he passed away. Yes. And yes. And then the gods were pretty upset by Loki, but for some reason they weren't. That's not when they trapped him. That's not when they punished him. Right after that, he was a little. He just. He just goes out of control after that moment, I guess. But. And oh, back to his daughter Hel. They do ask. She says, okay, so if everyone cries for him, then it'll be fine. So they do. The gods do go around and asking everything, even the rock, even water. Like, everything has to cry for him. And everything does. Except for one giant. One old giant lady. She says no. She's like, I don't love him. I'm not going to cry for him. So he stays dead. And people think that that's probably. That was probably Loki in disguise.
Jack: Interesting. Yeah. Because Loki has this habit of being an old lady.
Cristina: Being an old lady. Oh, yeah. He was an old lady. Yeah. But an old giant lady this time. He turns into weird things, though. He's the most. He has the most fun with shapeshifting. I don't know if the other gods can shapeshift. I feel like they don't because none of them do it. But Loki sure does.
Jack: Maybe it is the power of giants.
Cristina: It could be. Could it be? There's not much said about h*** I think. But I do remember that, well, she doesn't have a key role in Ragnarok. Sort of like, they don't know if she's going to battle with the gods or the giants in the final battle. But she does end up escaping, like her brothers and Loki, out of their traps. She also gets out of her trap, which is their h*** version of whatever she's living in. She.
Jack: And that's a Helheim, right?
Cristina: Helheim, yeah. And it's her. All the dead people, the monsters. There's also monsters trapped in there, too. And the giants all go on a boat made out of dead finger nails. Dead fingers and dead nails. And that's the boat that Loki rides into. What's the place called? Asgard. To fight them, actually. I don't know if they end up there, but whatever. He rides there and then they fight. But that's his battleship. It's made out of fingers and toenails, and it's carrying all the dead and monsters that were in h***. But I don't know if she's on that boat, actually. I just know she left, and all the things that were with her end up on that boat with him.
Jack: So chances are, she was there, too.
Cristina: Yeah, there's chances, yeah. But, like. But there's no. Like, there's no description of her. No stories of her fighting or, like, what happens to her afterwards. Because, you know from these other stories that we know how they die, which I forgot to mention. How the wolf dies. Well, not dies, but his point in Ragnarok. Because Ragnarok is so awesome. Yes. He's the one that kills Odin.
Jack: The wolf.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: The wolf kills Odin.
Cristina: Yes. And then Odin's son cuts off the wolf's paws. So I'm guessing he still lives. He just has no paws now.
Jack: Interesting. Interesting. So, as Odin and Loki are equal but opposite, their children are destined to fight each other.
Cristina: Yes. Well, Odin's fighting Loki's children, child. I don't know who Loki's fighting. He's fighting a God, but I don't know if he's related to Odin, but maybe.
Jack: So they don't fight each other, but their children fight each other, which is Thor and the world snake.
Cristina: Thor and the world serpent.
Jack: Thor and the world serpent fight each other.
Cristina: Yes. And Odin and the wolf.
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: Vanir, I think, is his name. Vanir?
Jack: That's cool.
Cristina: That's cool.
Jack: Yeah, Vanir.
Cristina: Vanir. Yeah. Vanir. And Hel. Come on. I mean, Hel, I guess, doesn't sound as cool. No, Helheim sounds Cool, though.
Jack: Helheim sounds out. Yeah, it sounds like somebody's name.
Cristina: Yeah. And Helheim is in Niflihem. Niflim. Niflam.
Jack: Niff.
Cristina: Do you know that place? I think that's where the frozen giants are at.
Jack: No idea.
Cristina: Well, the frozen giants, I think is also on board with the giants and all that stuff.
Jack: Yes, Frost giants.
Cristina: Frost giants, yes. Yes. The first story you talked about was pretty funny. And there are other stories that are as funny as that story. And I want to talk about those stories. Which is. The first one is. I'll call it the Tug of War. I don't know if it's actually called that. Maybe it's called that. I don't know. And it starts off as a normal story of Loki just getting in trouble. He somehow a giant catches him and he's like, imma kill you unless you bring me a goddess here to be with or whatever. And so Loki does that. He does that. And then the other gods find out and they're like, you better get her or we're going to kill you. So he turns into a. So he turns into a falcon and carries her back to Asgard. And while he's doing that, the giant turns into a eagle. And when he gets close to him to towards Asgard, they burn it up and he dies in the fire like a firewall or something. And then his daughter comes there to get some type of payment for losing her father. And one of the things that she demands is for the gods to make her laugh. So Loki decides that he's got this. Which I guess he does have this because he.
Jack: He's practiced stand up comedy his whole life. And now his moment to shine has arrived.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Loki's like, take a seat. The lights go down, spotlight on Loki. And he's like, all right. Knock, knock.
Cristina: I wish. No, actually this way. The way what really happened is. Well, you'll see. And you'll tell me if maybe he should have just told the joke. Actually he might for his own sake should have probably just tried to tell a joke. But he's into weird things. We gotta remember he's into weird things. Alright.
Jack: Yeah, he's an eccentric.
Cristina: Yes. Okay, so what he does is he gets a goat with a long beard and he ties his balls to that goat's beard. And then while that goat tries to run away one way, he pulls the other way. And as painful as that is, it makes the giant laugh.
Jack: Fair enough. Look, Jackass was successful.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: And who.
Cristina: The original jackass.
Jack: Occam's razor Says everything is normal and that's the most likely outcome. Whatever's most likely likely is probably what's going on. And as above, so below.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: So we like stupid s***.
Cristina: Why wouldn't giants.
Jack: Why wouldn't giants love stupid s***? God love stupid s*** too.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Thor is well known to be a troll.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Like he trolls really hard. Odin trolls all the time. They think of him as serious. But then you look at some stupid f****** Odin stories and he's a troll too. They're all just bored half the time. Doing things for fun.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: And so Loki, the most open minded, less rule follow Y1. Of course he's gonna do the craziest s***.
Cristina: So crazy.
Jack: You know he jackasses with it. Yes. But also it hurt Steve O. And he never stopped. I guess he stopped drugs and just turned his self abuse into more comedy.
Cristina: Yes. I wonder if any of them have tried this trick though.
Jack: Maybe.
Cristina: Maybe. Oh my gosh. Go look it up after the show. Yeah. So what do you think? That story funnier, less funny? I feel like it's probably lots of people's favorite, but I think the horse one is my favorite.
Jack: I think whether between doing stand up, a short stand up routine and this one act visually in person, this is more appealing. That wins over stand up. Now to tell the story repeatedly. Stand up would have been better. But he wasn't thinking like how is this story going to be told for the rest of eternity? He was thinking like, how do I get her to laugh? Yeah, he's absurd. So he did something absurd story wise. I also think that's kind of interesting.
Cristina: You think the nuts.
Jack: Yeah, it's also like. I mean the horse one is pretty crazy, but he also f***** a snake.
Cristina: He did not f*** snake. A giant skin a snake while f******.
Jack: That's weird. I guess it is the weirdest that he turned into a horse to get f***** by a horse. Not even to f*** a horse.
Cristina: Exactly. That's weirder.
Jack: But then the question is, is that weirder than turning into a snake so that a giant f**** you? He's a snake. He doesn't have a p****.
Cristina: But it somehow worked. Maybe he was a snake with a p****.
Jack: Do snakes have penises? Whatever. He's. He's either. He's probably just getting f***** by a giant.
Cristina: Yeah, I guess none of that's weird. He's into things and that's normal.
Jack: Apparently for them. I guess we don't have to understand the gods.
Cristina: No, he's just. He cheated on his wife. That's so wrong.
Jack: Did he does she think it's cheating?
Cristina: I don't know.
Jack: Or she just like, whatever you f*** stuff?
Cristina: Yeah, maybe. Maybe because she does. She's there in the end, before Ragnarok. She's with him right now as he's trapped.
Jack: Is there. So we don't know when Ragnarok is.
Cristina: When the snake lets go of his h***. That's all we know.
Jack: Right? Do we know when that's gonna happen?
Cristina: No idea. No. Or. I don't know for sure. I do not know.
Jack: I mean, I don't either.
Cristina: Yes. So the boulder thing doesn't get him in trouble, but soon after, the gods are having a party. Well, maybe not a party. Maybe it's to mourn for Baldr. I'm not sure. And they don't invite him to it. But then he gets angry and he's like, odin, what about that oath we have or whatever, that we're like, maybe they're siblings or whatever, or have a blood tie. That's from that story that people got the idea that he. That he and Odin, that there's some kind of special connection between the two. And so they let him in. And then he just starts insulting everyone, every single God. And I think that's really what ruined everything. But the last person he insults is Thor's wife. And he kind of hints that they had an affair. So I thought that was interesting. But she was like. Instead of, like, being angry or anything, she changes the subject. So there might have been an affair.
Jack: Interesting. Interesting. So there is now. Thor's wife is not supposed to bang everything.
Cristina: No. But Thor cheated on her, too. He wasn't very faithful, so.
Jack: Which means fair game.
Cristina: Yeah. So it might have been a revenge thing with Loki.
Jack: D***. But look, the f*** is like uncle or some s***. Whatever the f*** Loki is to him, his dad's archenemy.
Cristina: His dad's.
Jack: I mean, I guess they're not related.
Cristina: His dad, that he has a pact with. Not with Thor, so. But in that party, though, we find out that the thing he really fears Loki is Thor. Thor doesn't fear any of the gods. He fears Thor. Thor gets angry and kicks him out of the party. And he leaves. He's like, I'm. I'm only leaving because Thor.
Jack: Why does he fear Thor?
Cristina: He kills, like, nothing. He has a hammer that just, I don't know, RIP S***. Yeah. And he does. He does all the time.
Jack: Yeah. Thor is in the movies of, like, you know, Marvel Cinematic Universe or whatever. F***. Is conveyed as a good guy. But in his stories, he's really Neutral. Like really neutral. Like he could just do good or bad at any given moment for no reason.
Cristina: He's only, I think, like, seen as.
Jack: A God because, like, the son of Odin. That's it.
Cristina: Yes. But because the Norse see strength as the good, probably. Like, that's what good is.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: Bad is being a coward. Good is being strong or whatever.
Jack: You know, the entirety of Norse mythology. Minus. I believe two gods are considered neutral or bad. That's it.
Cristina: That's it.
Jack: That's it. There's two gods. I don't remember. One of them is supposed to be what became a Jesus, and then the other one is what became Samson. And those are the only two beings that even in Greek mythology. Because also the Greek gods are considered neutral. Minus. Two beings that came from Norse mythology, and they are considered to be the only beings in all of the, you know, transcendent universe that are good. Everything else is neutral. All the gods are neutral.
Cristina: All right. But Loki's wife doesn't sound like a bad person.
Jack: Neutral.
Cristina: Oh, I guess she's neutral. Okay.
Jack: Yeah. They're either neutral or bad.
Cristina: Oh, okay.
Jack: Like, Odin isn't bad, although he does crooked s*** all the time. But so does Thor.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: They're not actively doing malicious things, though.
Cristina: Like they didn't murder Loki's children, even though they were predicted to bring the end of days.
Jack: Loki is also, ironically, not considered bad.
Cristina: He's considered neutral. He helped them out quite a few times. Yeah. Sometimes he did start things.
Jack: He swings just like the rest of them.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Between neutral and bad.
Cristina: Yeah. It's whatever he feels like it.
Jack: Exactly. All the gods. Most of the gods are like that.
Cristina: Yeah. Except when he killed that one God. That's pushing the line.
Jack: A couple of gods that are considered bad, though.
Cristina: Really?
Jack: Yes, there's a couple of gods. Not many.
Cristina: Most are neutral in Norse mythology. Yes.
Jack: And Greek mythology. Although in Christianity, they are all good all the time. Everything except for the devil. Lucifer.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Which. Yeah, it's really black and white. There's no neutral. It's either you're the good guys or you the bad guys.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: While all the other things kind of blurred the lines there.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: But there's a couple of gods, and I believe Boulder was one of them. I believe Boulder's immunity also made him hustle.
Cristina: I don't know. From what I remember checking out. No, from what I know, he was loving and. Or all the gods loved him and all the things loved him. That's why they all promised not to hurt him.
Jack: The gods don't care.
Cristina: But the things. Everything from all nine worlds.
Jack: Oh, really?
Cristina: Yes. They were the ones that cried for him as well when he died. It wasn't just the gods. It was everything. Everything. The rocks.
Jack: Interesting. So he's not the only God who is immortal then. Not in that fashion, where he's like, not human to his own gods. Because there was a God. I don't know where the f*** I heard the story, but there was a God who. His lack of being like the other gods is what made him hostile in the first place.
Cristina: That sounds like Loki, because he is kind of hostile, I guess.
Jack: And he isn't like the other gods.
Cristina: He isn't like the other s***, maybe it could have been exactly like Loki.
Jack: Could be. Could be.
Cristina: And that's why after that party, he runs away. Because he knows, like, he went too far. And they catch him. And now he's is tied up, I think, in somewhere on earth. He's tied up somewhere on Earth? Loki? Yeah. In a cave. In a dark cave somewhere. And his wife is with him. They have him tied up with her children. They took out their intestines and wrapped it around him. I don't know why her children had to die. Understand his being part of Ragnarok. But her children are innocent. They had nothing to do with Ragnarok. But I guess they're the only thing strong enough to hold Loki down because they tied it around him.
Jack: Loki's wife's children?
Cristina: Yes, their children. It's still Loki's children. But those children were not meant for the end of the world. But they. So they killed them and put the intestines around him. So he's tied up with that. And then there's a snake above his head that's dripping poison on him to keep him weak as punishment. It's just a torture. It's just torturing him for all the crap that he's done.
Jack: Like a Japanese water torture.
Cristina: Yeah, I guess.
Jack: Make a little drop of water, hit his forehead for days.
Cristina: Yeah. So his wife is there, though, to hold a bucket over his head to collect as much of that poison away from him. And then every time it fills up, she takes it away to let out the poison. And that's when he does get hit with poison. And then that story explains why there's.
Jack: Earthquakes when he's getting hit by the drops.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Freaks out and the earth shakes.
Cristina: Yep, got it. So that actually fits into the last episode. I didn't know about that story, but now I do. And it's really. There is one more story that I think is Funny. Ish. Or I. I'm assuming it was funny back then. It could be still funny now. I'll tell you anyway and see if you think it's funny. But I don't think it compares to the other two stories I just told you, which is that in this story, he and Thor have to cross dress because there's a giant who has Thor's hammer. Somehow, Thor lost his hammer and a giant got a hold of it and.
Jack: And to get it back, you cross dress.
Cristina: Yes, because the. The giant wants Fria and he'll give them the hammer. So they decide to dress Thor up as Fria. He's not happy about that, but he has to, because it somehow works in the plan that he has to do this.
Jack: Right.
Cristina: And then Loki, for some reason, part of this plan. I think this is his plan.
Jack: Loki's an idiot. He could have just become Freya.
Cristina: He could have, but I think what he wanted to do was dress up as a May lady, so that's what he did. He. He also cross dressed. He could totally use his transforming powers. But no, he was like, I want to dress up like a lady as a man. So they do that. And as Thor is getting married to the giant, the giant calls the hammer, because then the union is made and they're. They're married once the hammer joins, for some reason. I don't know how that's part of the ceremony, but that's part of this ceremony, and it lands on Thor's lap, and then Thor murders the giant, and then he murders all the other giants, and then they go back home. Hilarious story.
Jack: Super funny. Yep. Seems legit. It seems like something Thor would do. He just murders.
Cristina: He just murders. He really does.
Jack: Yeah, he doesn't really need to.
Cristina: But the cross dressing is supposed to be the funny part of the story, so.
Jack: What a solution.
Cristina: Yeah, it is kind of funny because Loki can totally just like, turn into Freya.
Jack: Yeah. It was just a real pointless mission they went on.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Like, he could have legitimately become Freya.
Cristina: Yes. And just had Thor with him. Because he still needs to grab the hammer.
Jack: Yes. It makes total sense that Freya would show up. In fact, it looks like Thor brought Freya.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: In literal exchange for his hammer.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: But no, Loki was like, better idea.
Cristina: Better idea.
Jack: We both cross dress.
Cristina: So ridiculous. Like, before the actual wedding, there was, like, a bunch of things that Thor was doing that was obviously something wrong with Fria. Like the giant, like.
Jack: Like sketchy s***.
Cristina: Yeah. Like, he ate too much and he drank too much, and the giant Was like, this is very strange.
Jack: I would love the Norse mythology sitcom where hijinks happen all the time. And then this episode, one of the best episodes. Because he's at the party, he's drinking more than he should, and, you know, they notice. Oh, man, your wife's got, like, a real thick mustache today.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Like, all those corny, funny hijinks.
Cristina: Yes, it's exactly like that, though. It's like that wolf story of, like, the Little Red Riding Hood with the wolf. And he's like, why did you use your eyes that big? Or why are your hands that big? And.
Jack: Yeah, that should totally.
Cristina: Giant is doing that with Thor is like, hey, why is his eyes so dark and scary? And Loki's like, oh, it's because he. He's so in love with. She's so in love with you. Like, Loki was coming up with the excuses of why Thor was obviously not. Obviously not a lady.
Jack: I guess it's like, this giant has to be a little blind, too, to not be like, that's clearly Thor in a dress or some s***.
Cristina: I know.
Jack: But, like, great. He could, man. Loki genius.
Cristina: Yes, she is a genius.
Jack: Anyways, we are out of time here. That's definitely.
Cristina: So which is your favorite of the three stories?
Jack: I think the horse f******. It's crazy because you have to become a female horse to get laid by a horse and then be pregnant and then ride that pregnancy out.
Cristina: He could have definitely. Well, I guess that's the only option.
Jack: The funniest part is riding the pregnancy out. Yes, that's the funniest part. It's not the banging a horse. He banged a bunch of s***. No, whatever he likes to take, he likes to be the receiving end sometimes.
Cristina: And he actually held a horse in him for however long it takes. A horse. Magic horse.
Jack: Could have been millions of years by our standard. Yeah, we don't know how time works over there.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: He could have just been pregnant for infinities, living a life as a wife to a horse.
Cristina: To a horse. Yeah.
Jack: To giant horse for infinities.
Cristina: Yep.
Jack: And then had Horace baby.
Cristina: There was some sort of mutant somehow just okay with all this. I don't know. I'm thinking that that whole bucket thing is a little revenge of her own, because she gets to watch him suffer still.
Jack: She gets to be there.
Cristina: Yeah. When she takes out the bucket, like, she could eventually now, like, come up with some other thing to cover his head so he doesn't get hit in the head. But she's like, nah, this is the best moment. She feels so good.
Jack: It's so unbelievable.
Cristina: She just waits for that bucket to get filled and she's like, oh, I can'.
Jack: So easy to just build a little scoop that grabs it and it drips across.
Cristina: Like, it's so easy somewhere else. Yeah, yeah.
Jack: Just divert the flow.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Super simple.
Cristina: But she's like, no, Yeah, I want to see this.
Jack: Well, I mean, they're kinky. They're probably into it. She's all excited about it. He's probably into it, too. You know, they don't give a. Oh, my God. Maybe their bonding time.
Cristina: Oh, yeah.
Jack: Fascinating. Thor's weird. Loki's weird. Odin's weird. Norse mythology in general is weird. Religion is weird.
Cristina: Religion is weird.
Jack: Yeah, it is what it is.
Cristina: That was a great episode, though. Yeah.
Jack: Fascinating. I like. I love knowing about. I like Norse mythology and Greek mythology more than I like Christianity. I guess Christianity is just outplayed.
Cristina: It's just boring to you.
Jack: It is. It's so boring. While Greek and Norse mythology are, like, weird and eccentric, you know, they're really exciting. I think I've heard too much Christianity in my life.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: But, like, also, I'm not that interested in Hinduism either. I think there's just something really interesting about Greek and Norse mythology and the.
Cristina: Way those cats behave and all that.
Jack: Yeah, it's really different. Yeah, it's very exotic and different from other religions. It's like a bunch of chaos happening. Just random s*** happening all the time. But, yeah, definitely find that interesting. But if you guys enjoyed this, this episode, this discussion, you can find other things of this nature. You can find the previous part of this when we're talking about when we stumbled upon Loki, talking about, you know, nature and whatnot. Yeah, you can find that last episode, but you can also find in a bunch of other episodes, random crap that we touch about gods and religions, myths.
Cristina: And myths and crap and all that stuff.
Jack: Yeah, all of the above. You can find all that stuff on the official website. Great thoughts.info or on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere you get podcasts.
Cristina: And you can reach us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and TikTok at just combo podcast.
Jack: Yes. And remember to subscribe and Reiter and reveal the show if you feel so inclined.
Cristina: And let someone who might like this show know about it.
Jack: Yes, word of mouth matters. As I always tell you at the beginning and at the end of the show, if you find somebody and you kindly ask them to listen to a podcast, you give them all the space they need. You. You, you know, you don't Want to invade personal space.
Cristina: That's disrespectful. Six feet of space in the zone. Yeah.
Jack: You need a social distance. And when you. Social distance and you tell somebody, hey, I know it's lonely these days, alone all the time. Can't interact too much. Well, I can. I can show you podcasts that you feel like you're in the room with these people hanging out safely and tell them about this podcast and they'll love it. And they'll be like, thank you for respecting my personal space and I appreciate you introducing me to this show.
Cristina: Of course.
Jack: Well, where I'll learn about Norse mythology.
Cristina: Yes, you will, I think at least learn about Loki. Learn about Loki and his children. And his children. Yeah. He learned about a few things, definitely. And this show has been the Just Conversation podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening.
Jack: Bye. But now when you think about the message prior to this.
Cristina: What?
Jack: It kind of makes sense in a political kind of way.
Cristina: In a political type. What?
Jack: Yes. Because he's saying that they're kind of living in a veil of ignorance to some degree. We have hang ups. We're tightly wound and whatever.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And we don't want to let ourselves know more than we do. Where the f*** does he say that?
Cristina: He does not say that.
Jack: Left ear, hard to see the hang ups we have today. The hang ups are somewhere in there. But they don't really realize, though.
Cristina: Oh, no. They don't realize though that he's great. No. The next thing.
Jack: Lift your. Lift your left your lift yourself. Lift your. Lift your. Lift your lift your. Hard to see the hang ups we have today. But they don't realize this next verse. This next verse though, these bars. So the next verse has nothing to do. But they don't realize. They don't really realize. They don't really realize is them sort of. They don't understand. And then he says before that. That. Lift yourself upon your feet. Let's get it on. So, okay, we're beaten down.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And we can get up.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: We don't need anybody to extend the hand to get us up.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: He's. He argues against that, against the whole welfare system, against the whole. This is just very Kanye of him.
Cristina: Okay. Do it yourself.
Jack: He's saying you could pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
Cristina: Okay. Yes.
Jack: And then he says the state of mind you're in. I'll sing you some bars about that. And then he jumps into poopa. He's just saying you're full of s***. Everything you've got is excuses.
Cristina: Oh, okay.
Jack: Your whole state of mind. Let me summarize it in these woke a** bars.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Poop.
Cristina: Yes, poop.
Jack: Yeah. He's saying you're full of s***. All of you are full of s***. That's a woke a** song. You just did it like a troll.
Cristina: Be any of the s***, no less. It's to your face.
Jack: It's actually poopa de whoop, not poop that you scoop.
Cristina: Okay?
Jack: So, yeah, pretty woke s***.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: I give him points as fire.
Cristina: About poop. About poop. Yeah. Good morning. Good morning. The Just Conversation podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by greatthoughts.info art by 0lupo and logo by Seth McAllister with social media managed by Amber Black.