Rambling 289: The Neighborhood of Paradise

Where is Paradise? What is the history of this mysterious place? What is the true purpose of this hidden Neighborhood Town? The duo finally deep dive into the most mysterious neighborhood in the United States. Nearly impossible to locate, almost no information about it and the strangest circumstances surrounding the area around the neighborhood. The truth about this place will be revealed.

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed:

  • West Milford New Jersey
  • Secret Dirt Road
  • Google Maps
  • Private Residency
  • Public Records
  • Personal Accounts
  • Resources and Food
  • Extremely Strange Details

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+Transcript

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And this is the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas. And boy, oh, boy, our ideas can get quite, quite baffled today. There is so much baffling to happen, but this requires us to kind of unpack a little something that we've been dealing with lately. So in the previous episode, we were dealing with the Minotaur, a creature from Greek mythology, which turned out to just basically be some kind of freak show experiment.

Cristina: Two of them.

Jack: Two of them. The Toro Boban and the Minotaur, which are related and unrelated simultaneously, like they're brothers. Not the same thing. Although both creatures were discussed in mythology for God knows how long as one thing.

Cristina: That's pretty crazy.

Jack: Yes. Now, one of the things that we realized discussing these creatures was a pattern that we'd noticed before elsewhere, which was where these creatures were. The labyrinth.

Cristina: Labyrinth. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Jack: And the labyrinth is identical to a different location we're very familiar with, which is the house of this lady who was messing with ghosts and creating sort.

Cristina: Of made a labyrinth.

Jack: Yeah. Her house was a labyrinth. Slowly and meticulously built. She stopped contractors from coming in and assisting because she knew they couldn't figure it out. The way she needed it done was very specific. And so the labyrinth, although the construction of the labyrinth isn't specified, the purpose of the labyrinth is kind of clear. Opposite to the lady's house mansion, where the purpose of the labyrinth was not explained, but the construction. Yes. And we can assume one informs the other. We can assume that the labyrinth where the Toro Boban was was very meticulously built and that the purpose of the mansion being a maze was for the same reason that we're formed. The labyrinth is for that entrance, for the entrance at the center, the seance room and the entrance at the Minotaur Guards Y are one in the same, and, well, not literally one the same, but identical in use and purpose. And this was quite illuminating to find this pattern because it told us about the third location that we have maybe been looking in the wrong places this entire time.

Cristina: Somewhere in Clinton Road.

Jack: Somewhere in Clinton Road. Now, we've looked at the castle, we've brushed over Paradise Road. We've looked at the mines, we've looked at the woods, the bridge, the lake, and we just don't find what we're looking for.

Cristina: I mean, it could be in the mines. We have no idea.

Jack: It could totally be in the mines. But the mines are just connected to the castle.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it's all one somehow. And then the surface level, because again, the mines in the bottom of the castle are connected underground. And then the top layer is a jumbled mess of. You pop it in here. Come over there. You can see this over here. You can see that over there, a weird mess that kind of feels like the maze, but not exactly, because you're not popping in and out. You're not getting lost in this space and popping up in that space. Literally, you're seeing them. But there is a place that behaves like that that, again, we've brushed over, but never really focused on in great detail because the lady in white doesn't seem to be there. The boy doesn't seem to be there. It doesn't seem to be any particular experiments taking place there.

Cristina: But you hear children there, or at least your experience children.

Jack: Yes. And there's reports of that. Yes.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Which is not Paradise Road, but Paradise itself. The neighborhood town.

Cristina: An actual real town.

Jack: It's a neighborhood.

Cristina: Is. Yes. But, like, that's the. What you think is the hotspot. The.

Jack: I don't think it's a hotspot is what fits. Yeah, it fits the maze description. Because my personal experience in there was the roads were shifting. We took a straight line. We went on the dirt road named. We went on the road named paradise that became a dirt road and went into an indescript road that took us to Paradise. From paradise, we go in a straight line, no turns. We see houses to the left, woods to the right. We make it to what seems like the other end, do a K turn. So we're looking back where we started. Go in a straight line and don't find the exit.

Cristina: That is weird.

Jack: So a clean 180 back from where we came, except no longer was the dirt road. We came from there.

Cristina: That's such a crazy story, but has anyone experienced such a thing?

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: What? What? What? What?

Jack: Okay, Exactly. So let's unpack what we know about Paradise. So paradise is, as we know, located around Clinton Road in the West Milford, like, forest region.

Cristina: It's a small town in the forest.

Jack: It's a neighborhood that feels kind of like a town.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And the. I looked at this on Google Maps to kind of, like, try to zone in, and it's way specific. Now, in the Google Maps overview, you can't actually get a street view all the way through Paradise. Now, it goes as Follows Clinton Road, goes up the right side. You're just looking. You're looking at Google Maps right now. You got a square screen in front of you. To your right, Clinton Road is just going straight up. We're zoomed in, only on Paradise Road. So Clinton Road starts, and it just goes through the whole screen and keeps going. You don't see it. It's just the piece that you do see. And the beginning and ending out of your sight. Okay, Now, a random in the script road connects to Paradise. You can enter Paradise Road from another street elsewhere. Okay, Perfectly fine. And Paradise Road just kind of winds, goes around. It takes a nice little kind of left loop and then connects to a different town. Perfectly fine.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Now, between the left entrance of the town of the Paradise Road, the first, whatever the f*** the name of that road is that connects, there's an immediate neighborhood there and the bottom entrance. So to the left of your screen, you would have one entrance. It goes right, winds down the exit to the bottom. It's very small road. The exit to the bottom connects to two roads. The one that connects to Clinton, and again, just another part of a main road somewhere. Mm, the left entrance. You cannot do a street view starting there. Now, you can see that whole neighborhood there from the Google Maps top. It's a visible neighborhood. And if you were to drop your pin on that road to the left, even if you can't get a street view going through the street into the neighborhood, you can see the neighborhood from the street. You can drop the pin perfectly fine. The other end at the bottom of the screen, you could drop the pin there, and you can go on Paradise Road about halfway up before, in Google Maps, on the street view, it just turns into a dirt road. Suddenly you're just moving, and it's paved, paved, paved. And then the pave just kind of ends and fizzles out. And now it's just a dirt road.

Cristina: And that's what you remember, a dirt road. Right.

Jack: It's not the dirt road I remember specifically, but I'll get to that. Okay, but this road just becomes a dirt road suddenly. And you can't go farther with the street view. It stops right there. You cannot move farther beyond that point. Now, this gives you a bit of a loop, begins loops, connects to the other side. The loop area starts at the neighborhood, goes, and then connects to where it becomes paved again, that loop area, you cannot see it on Google Maps from Street View. You can only see the road from Google Maps skyview from the top down. Okay? The road that's in the script that connects to paradise comes out of that side you cannot see on the street view. Additionally, the road that connects cannot be seen from the sky view because it's covered by the forest. Oh, I looked for it and I couldn't find it. It doesn't exist. It's there.

Cristina: It's there underneath.

Jack: Underneath the trees. It's such a literal dirt road. It doesn't exist from the sky view. And Google Maps literally doesn't allow you to explore it. To explore it.

Cristina: Maybe it doesn't see it as a road though, because you said it's trees.

Jack: It's trees. Yeah. It's covered by trees.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Very weird.

Cristina: That is weird.

Jack: Very strange. Who the h*** knows? Okay, okay, here's the literal view I'm talking about. So for reference, down here is Clinton Road.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: This is Clinton Road all going up. This is the road that connects the Paradise Road. There's many different ways you can connect. A little neighborhood down there. You can also see there's a little.

Cristina: Neighborhood over here, what's considered Paradise Road.

Jack: This entire thing is Paradise Road. Okay, now, weird fact right here. If I were to grab a little thingy. Oh, I can't. I gotta zoom in a little more. Let me go in a little deeper. But you see that neighborhood right up there, Right? It's visible right here.

Cristina: Okay. Yeah.

Jack: Okay, now you see what's happening here?

Cristina: I'm not sure what's happening.

Jack: Oh, my God. Yeah, I can't drop the pin in the neighborhood. I can't.

Cristina: The line is. It has to be blue for you to drop it in. Is that what's happening?

Jack: Okay, yes. And if I go down to the other end, I can again show you. Interesting.

Cristina: No? Yeah. There's specific, but it sees it as a road.

Jack: So I can definitely knows and it sees it as a road.

Cristina: Yeah, but you can't go into those towns. There's some towns there that looks like you can't look at the road.

Jack: Yeah, sure. That's totally fine. What we're looking at is paradise and specific. There's many locations you can't look at. It's. Why is this the specific location we can't look at? And you see how it was paved at some point. You can see that it's paved underneath it, but it's slowly getting more dirt focused as we go.

Cristina: Eventually it just be there.

Jack: Eventually it's just going to be dirt. It just kind of fizzles out deeper and deeper. And it doesn't matter the dark distance we go slowly but surely we hit this very point where it just completely becomes rocks.

Cristina: Oh, yeah.

Jack: Oh, it's just. It's just rocks now.

Cristina: It's just rocks. Yeah.

Jack: And now I can't even go. It just became totally rocks that the street fizzled out and I can't go farther.

Cristina: That's it. That is weird.

Jack: Yep.

Cristina: But that's still the road.

Jack: That's still Paradise Road. They could have easily just driven. It's still a road. It's a drivable road. It's clearly drivable. Why did the Google Scanner driver not want to go there? Who told the Google scanner driver, don't go beyond this point? And how does this make any sense if the neighborhood on the other end is clearly a functioning, elaborate neighborhood and you can jump into that neighborhood as you saw previously? No.

Cristina: Oh, I saw in the bottom. I wasn't looking up there.

Jack: Well, I showed you that there's no way onto here before.

Cristina: Oh, okay. Except for that one road. You can't go onto the.

Jack: You can't enter the beginning of this road.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Weird, right?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Now this is Paradise Road we're looking at. Somewhere on Paradise Road is the access road to the neighborhood of Paradise. This isn't the neighborhood of Paradise.

Cristina: It's not?

Jack: No, it's not. That's just a random neighborhood.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The neighborhood of paradise was so cluttered by trees that every house within a two foot radius had a fully grown tree directly next to it, which means its roof would be totally covered by trees.

Cristina: So you're saying it's there, but it's not there. Like we can't see it.

Jack: I think we can. And I think that's this circular formation we're looking at here. You can see little spicks of white in a circular formation going on. It's there, but it's hidden. Hidden.

Cristina: That's scary.

Jack: It's visibly in front of our face. You think you can see this whole little area right here fully covered by trees?

Cristina: Yeah. Except there's something in there. Yeah. What?

Jack: And that would mean that the access road must be directly in the area that we can't see.

Cristina: Weird. And we can't even check it out.

Jack: We can't check it out. We can't look at it. We can't do anything without going there ourselves. It would be impossible. There's no other way to investigate. You have to go there.

Cristina: So it's not even like a town we go find, but it is a real town.

Jack: It's there.

Cristina: We can see it there.

Jack: We can see it nice and hidden. We can't Tell where the road begins and ends.

Jack: There's no way to spot the access point.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But it's there because they must be reaching the neighborhood up here somehow. But I remember it being just the. We were just teenagers exploring, and we're like, hey, sketchy dirt road. Let's go on it. And so we did, and we landed at this place. I couldn't tell you exactly where the road is.

Cristina: No.

Jack: But I know in which direction it's going.

Cristina: It's impossible. It's impossible to see, like, how. You had to be there.

Jack: You had to be there. You have to literally be driving this road in order to find it to begin with.

Cristina: It's just. It's not there.

Jack: Yeah. And that road has no name.

Cristina: That road has no name.

Jack: No. Yeah. This is Paradise Road. And Paradise Road leads us to the dirt road, which is somewhere hidden in the woods. No markings. Google doesn't even recognize it as a road. Yet there's still a neighborhood we can see, covered by trees. There is a way there.

Cristina: Weird.

Jack: Additionally, if you look at Paradise Road and you look at Clinton Road, they're about almost equal distances from the neighborhood. In fact, the bottom part of the neighborhood is probably equal. Literally equal distances to both sides. So there might be more than one road in. Unless paradise is the only way. But that means we can maybe drive across Clinton Road and spot in that direction of road. But I did that and didn't find anything.

Cristina: And you typed in Paradise Road and it doesn't pop up.

Jack: No. Paradise Road is this road. Oh, you type in Paradise Road and it'll show you this.

Cristina: Yeah, Paradise, I guess. Can you type in paradise, though?

Jack: No, it won't tell you where the neighborhood is.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Now you can find information about the neighborhood online. Not a lot.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But the neighborhood is definitely written about and exists, and people have seen it.

Cristina: Yes, but on Google Maps, it does.

Jack: Not exist on Google. Well, yeah, exactly. It tries by any means to pretend this clear formation here, this circular formation doesn't exist.

Cristina: Very strange. That is very strange.

Jack: But clearly. Obviously. Obviously. Come on, bro. Obviously. We're looking at houses stacked in the middle of this.

Cristina: What else could that be?

Jack: What else could that be? In a perfect little circle, too. Yeah, Perfect little circle going on.

Cristina: There's something weird happening in those trees.

Jack: With the largest patch being in the middle.

Cristina: Weird. That's the church. No, that's. That is so strange, because there's something in the woods. There's something in the woods. You can see there's things there, but you can't see what those things are, we can't investigate.

Jack: We have to literally be there in person. There's no way to like weird, weird.

Cristina: Did it have. I guess on Google they have pictures of the town. Is it like very foresty? Because that's ridiculous.

Jack: It looks like it's people's estimated photo. Like it's not really about the town. It might just be neighborhoods surrounding it.

Cristina: Yeah. It could be abandoned town for all I know. I don't understand.

Jack: Yeah, it could totally be an abandoned town. It's odd in general.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It's a weird view right here.

Cristina: Yes. Is it abandoned? Do you know that? Do you know?

Jack: I don't know what to tell you based on that. If it is, you'll find out as we go through it. But details about this hidden, private, rural as all h*** neighborhood, as we know, located in West Milford, New Jersey. What we just saw, it is tucked away off of the infamous Clinton Road. Very close. But you wouldn't find that considering the area. And the only access point is off of Paradise Road.

Cristina: Yeah, that is weird. Okay.

Jack: Which becomes a dirt road suddenly. Now it doesn't become an undrivable dirt road. Any car, as you saw, any car could easily drive that road.

Cristina: Yeah, it's still a road.

Jack: It's still a clearly clear road. It's a dirt road, but it's not. It's not even bumpy. It was just nice and smooth.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: It's just an unpaved, very smooth road. Any car could easily traverse it. Yeah. And on the other end, it's paved too. It just becomes paved again. It's really just going through this one patch that whoever decided we're gonna pave the road also decided we're gonna stop paving it right here.

Jack: Weird.

Cristina: There has to be reasons for that.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Yeah, super strange. You just decided out of nowhere we're just not gonna finish paving it. We're going to ignore that other neighborhood, not pave through it. And the entire. Just for whatever reason, we're not going to finish connecting it.

Cristina: That road is in itself some weird mystery. Something's happening on that road.

Jack: Strange, right?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Okay. So weird. It's so weird. It just becomes a dirt road that leads to a hard to find access road that we couldn't find from the top. And I know it was weird when we found the access road the first time. We're like, oh, weird dirt road. A legitimate dirt road that just goes where? Let's find out.

Cristina: Yeah, okay.

Jack: Strangest thing ever. So the road, the access road that comes off of paradise, it has no marking. So it's basically a nameless road. That's why we just refer to it by Paradise Road. Because Paradise Road is the only road connecting to it that has name.

Cristina: Okay. But it itself isn't really.

Jack: Yeah, we can assume. Yeah, it's just a random, like, connecting road, if anything. So really, the only way to the neighborhood is Paradise Road. And then this indescript, unnamed, hard to find other road.

Cristina: Mystery Road. Okay.

Jack: Yo, that's beautiful. Mystery Road.

Cristina: All right.

Jack: Interesting. Mystery Road can only be accessed through Paradise Road.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And additionally, Mystery Road is particularly difficult to locate at night because of its completely covered up nature. It's swallowed alive by the surrounding foliage.

Cristina: It's so strange that you even stumble upon it.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, it really is.

Cristina: Because your goal wasn't to go on to Paradise Road or anything. It was just.

Jack: It was just Clinton Road. And we were just trying to scare each other. And we found this other road, jumped on it, and then we somehow found this other. And then before long, we're in Paradise. Yeah, we do remember it. When we get into the neighborhood, there's a sign that says welcome to paradise. That we do remember. And then following that, sinuses beware deaf children. And somebody, you know, sketchly cross one out or whatever. Dead children. But that's really weird. Just getting to it is odd. Just seeing it is weird.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And like we just saw, you can follow it. You can follow paradise and it will not continue weird.

Cristina: But it's weird.

Jack: Suddenly becomes a dirt road weird. And that's less weird than the Google scanner. Just not driving it. Dude. So many dirt roads you have driven. This is the shortest patch ever of dirt road that you could possibly drive. It would have been the easiest job completion ever. It would have taken you three minutes.

Cristina: I don't know, maybe it wasn't. It didn't want to because, like, the. The places in a forest, like, even if they laid that out, you wouldn't see anything. You just have lines in the forest. Right in the Google search.

Jack: Well, no. Why. Why didn't he. Complete driving Paradise.

Cristina: Oh, paradise itself.

Jack: He didn't have to go off of Mystery Road. He could have just kept driving Paradise. It would have taken him three minutes.

Cristina: That's true.

Jack: There's nothing in the way. It's just a dirt road that connects right back to the rest of the town.

Cristina: Because you want us to see Mystery Road. I guess. I guess that's why I was. I don't know.

Jack: It seems like they're protecting that road. Right?

Cristina: Like, even if there's no Reason to go onto that road.

Jack: It's weird.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So definitely cannot be found without going there personally. Already the strangest part. Mm, weird. All right, next. It's primarily a residential area. Paradise Town, the neighborhood town. Now, it contains no business structures, no markets or anything of the sort. It's purely residential. People just live in there.

Cristina: Okay, that's a little weird, but I mean, it's not weird.

Jack: You're surrounded by mad neighborhoods with stores and stuff. And I'm sure a downtown area isn't not too far off. Yeah, it's very countryside where, you know, we all live over here, and I got to drive 20 minutes in the town to get to buy groceries or whatever the f***, you know, that kind of thing. So they kind of just live in there. And the roads of the neighborhood are paved. I remember that specifically. The roads inside the neighborhood are paved, which means people came to pave, stopping short on paradise just to block off that part of the dirt road.

Cristina: And that must be another spot that you enter the town through. Maybe.

Jack: Maybe. And then. But it's not Clinton Road, because I click through just following. There's not one moment in which a road goes left. There's nothing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And I looked carefully.

Cristina: Strange. Okay. I don't know what.

Jack: But the neighborhood is paved, Meaning somebody came to pave in the neighborhood and just close enough on paradise, but didn't finish paradise or Mystery Road.

Cristina: That is weird.

Jack: Weird pattern. Immediately reminds me of the lady who made the mansion where she let people do some parts, and it was like, no, get the h*** out. I got it. The specifics require me to finish these parts.

Cristina: Mmm.

Jack: Very reminiscent of that.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Of like, nah, I don't need your help anymore.

Cristina: Interesting.

Jack: Weird. Weird. Just looking at this stuff now, because of this nature, even if the neighborhood is paved and most of paradise is paved, it kind of makes the neighborhood exceptionally reclusive and exceptionally isolated from the rest of the world because you'd have to know where to find a dirt road.

Cristina: That's like, how do people even end up moving in there? Huh?

Jack: And another detail is that the primarily residential area has less than 50 homes total. Very small.

Cristina: Less than 50 homes. Wow. That's a small.

Jack: Tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny.

Cristina: It's not a town, though. It's. It's just a neighborhood.

Jack: It's just a neighborhood. But I will continue to call it a neighborhood town because of how removed it is. Yeah, it feels like a town.

Cristina: Yeah, it does.

Jack: Even if it's a neighborhood, it's weird. It's got already a weird vibe that makes it hard to describe in general, but it formed in the early 1950s.

Cristina: 1950S, that's when all that weird stuff was going.

Jack: That's when all the weird s*** was going down. Of course, for reference, I've got the timeline right up here, so we can focus on the things that happened around the 1950s. So leading into it, in 1950, 1952 specifically, was the first reports of the satanic rituals that were happening. 1955 is when the investigations were demanded by the mayor. Previous to that, 1939 was when the sketchy deal took place. So these are the events surrounding the formation of Paradise Road. Not Paradise Road, of the neighborhood of Paradise.

Cristina: Yeah, but who are those people? Where did they come from? Are they part of these cults? Are they part of the water park, whatever they're called?

Jack: Yeah, weird. Weird. Now, paradise formed in the early 1950s and is composed of residents with a tight knit generational like lineage, so that their families today, the people who live there today, they're related, have been primarily related. So this house belonged to my dad, that belonged to my grandma, and I've lived in this neighborhood always. People don't move in, people just live there.

Cristina: Strange.

Jack: People move out. Nobody moves in.

Cristina: But how did they get there? How did they get there? How?

Jack: At some point in the 1950s, they went in there.

Cristina: I know, but like, strange, strange.

Jack: So another weird part is that many of the residents have like lived there their entire lives. So they were born there and they just stay there until the day they die.

Cristina: But I wonder, like, where do they work? They're not there all day.

Jack: It's gonna get weird in a way that's gonna make it look that way. The entire surrounding area is covered by thick foliage, overgrown nature and unmaintained woods, as we've seen, making it impossible to see from any direction, even from on top. To locate through the dirt road, AKA Mystery Road and even access through Paradise Road. It's just invisible unless you know it's there. Yeah, the privacy of that is absurd.

Cristina: That is crazy.

Jack: It's just right there in the middle of New Jersey, invisible to the rest of the world.

Cristina: It's a mystery that you stumbled upon by mere chance.

Jack: Now, weird time based detail. The houses in paradise have extremely old designs, often appearing to be dated to the late 1800s design styles, with exception for a few that could be dated maybe to the 90s at the. At the latest.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So the late 1800s. Many of them look like they were built around that time. But that makes no sense considering the 1950s is when this neighborhood formed.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: With the most modern structures appearing to have been the designs of the 90s.

Cristina: That is weird, too. Like, why would they be.

Jack: So in the past 30 years, no advancement in the structures, which would make sense if you don't want to expand in the houses that are there. Just the houses that are there from now on, but still kind of chooses.

Cristina: To go back like that. Like 1800s.

Jack: Weird. Right.

Cristina: You're in the 1950s. You're not making 1950 styles or whatever is the end style.

Jack: Like, there are some houses that appear to be that, but the oldest structures appear to have a late 1800s kind of aesthetic.

Cristina: Weird.

Jack: Very strange. When we look at public records for this. Right. There is very few period that address the neighborhood of paradise specifically. There's no media mentions. There's no public events ever hosted, and there's no historical records. Private, private, private, private. It's also unclear whether all the residents of the neighborhood are American citizens or if they were just born and never registered. It's unknown how many people actually live in that neighborhood. Because people could have legitimately been born there, never registered, and they could just go to stores locally and stuff, and there'd be no reason for them to ever go into a hospital and, hey, I exist.

Cristina: That is. I don't know what.

Jack: And because we know people don't enter the neighborhood to audit.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Because nobody enters the neighborhood. It's unclear how many people actually live there.

Cristina: But it can't be many. Or can it be many?

Jack: Like 50 houses? If we assume three people per house. You got a lot of people already. That's 150 people.

Cristina: People move out, but people don't move in.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Is that true?

Jack: I don't know. We say multiple generations of people.

Cristina: Oh, yeah. They could just move into other homes that were abandoned.

Jack: No, abandoned home is if they just keep multiplying. We can't just assume extended families live in single houses.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So my grandma lives in the basement. My dad lives on the next floor. I got five kids myself. We all just overpopulated.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Weird.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: That's very strange that it's unclear how many people live there. It's theorized that many of the residents have been born and raised within the neighborhood of paradise and have not registered at a local hospital or city hall.

Cristina: But they don't, like, go to school either. Or at least unknown.

Jack: Maybe they have their own schooling, homeschooling. That could happen.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it basically just results in an impossible calculation. You can't tell how many people actually live in there. And I Have no say about this next part. But this has been claimed by people who have ventured through, which is that the residents aren't too kind to outsiders.

Cristina: But you didn't see anyone, so you wouldn't know.

Jack: I saw zero people.

Cristina: Except for the laughing.

Jack: Laughing that was on the way there. That was on Mystery Road.

Cristina: Oh, it could have been the people.

Jack: 100%. I saw nobody, though.

Cristina: That is strange.

Jack: We saw no one the whole time we were there. Not a soul.

Cristina: Well, people have seen people and they're just normal, un friendly people.

Jack: Unfriendly people say hi, they'll ignore people. That kind of stuff.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Now, the neighborhood is incredibly self sufficient. One of the stranger aspects of it is that it being purely residential. But rarely is anybody seen. Rarely. In fact, most of the claims of there being anybody weren't even about inside the neighborhood. It was from the few times that people have been seen leaving the neighborhood.

Cristina: Oh, my God. So no one goes in or if they have.

Jack: Nobody has seen anybody go in. People have only seen people come out and when they. Hey, can you tell me about the ignored? Hey, I'm kind of lost. Can you. Ignored.

Cristina: What is strange? People like their family. They're just. It sounds like, I guess what people picture, like hillbillies.

Jack: Yes, yes. It's very, very that. It feels like very like off in my area. But if you rarely see people coming in or out, where's the food coming from? Again, you'd assume they're going to the local stores. But nobody's seeing anybody coming in and out.

Cristina: No, but they're surrounded by woods.

Jack: They're surrounded by wood. Do you think they're hunting? I mean, I guess yes.

Cristina: They sound like those type of people. They sound like, yeah, they just live off the land and they live together as a close knit family.

Jack: Definitely has that vibe. Additionally, at the southern edge of the neighborhood, there is a barn.

Cristina: There is a barn.

Jack: So they could be growing their own food.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And hunting for the rest of it and growing the rest in the woods.

Cristina: They have seen people leaving.

Jack: They have seen people leaving. Nobody has ever seen somebody going in shopping. They could be shopping. Hundred percent. And if that's such a small number of people, then one person with a pickup can fill the pickup up with enough groceries, go in and not have to come out for a while. Mm, Totally solvable problem. But the barn would also fix it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And the fact that they're surrounded by so much thick foliage and woods will also fix it. They could just grow things in the woods. And that also means you could Just hunt the deer and hunt or whatever that's in there.

Cristina: Yeah. We can't even check if any of these guys have a job or anything possible. Yeah.

Jack: We know nothing about them. Right there in the middle.

Cristina: Just hidden. They're all just hidden.

Jack: Just hidden. Weird.

Cristina: That is very strange what is happening.

Jack: There now while the southern edge of the neighborhood has the barn, it gets weirder because it appears that there's a city hall like structure to the northern edge. City hall, they have a meeting point where there's governance or it would seem interesting.

Cristina: So they don't have. If they do have jobs there. No one really knows.

Jack: Nobody really knows.

Cristina: They might just have like a little society there.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: They're policing their streets, they're nursing their people there.

Jack: It could all just be. It's consistently described by outsiders as a self sustained and self efficient neighborhood. They don't require the outside world. Very odd. Now what's weirder about this is that you are in one of the most spoken of places in the entire country, yet you yourself are unknown. The castle. Everybody knows about the mines. Everybody knows about the road. Everybody knows about the lake. Everybody knows about. You're surrounded by all this s*** and nobody knows about you. That's the weirdest part about this.

Cristina: That is so weird. But they're so hidden. They're so hidden.

Jack: They are so. But this many people coming through all the time, you would think a lot of people go through that road. So why don't people going through that road consistently find Mystery Road and just explore? There should just be so many cases of, you know, people trying to scare each other or in the daylight, truly exploring. Let's go in the morning so we have the most amount of time before nightfall and we can truly get a look at everything out here.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: That would mean there's only three roads all of Clinton, top to bottom, 10 miles, no lights, no turns. That's one straight shot. You explored that. It took you no time.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Then you got the one turn into Paradise Road and you could travel all of Paradise Road. It would take you all of 10 minutes. And then in that time, how many people would find Mystery Road? It would be a f****** clusterfuck of people consistently finding Mystery Road and exploring that side too.

Cristina: Well, they only go there at night, so maybe it's harder to see.

Jack: I'm sure people go there in the daylight.

Cristina: I know, but just not the same number.

Jack: No, not the same number, but probably a s*** storm of people still. A f*** ton of people probably still go there during the daylight because they're too scared to go there at night. Okay, so where are these excessive numbers of stories? We have so few mentions, there's almost nothing on it. I checked everything.

Cristina: Like how do you keep people. But they're so hidden. They're so well hidden.

Jack: You'd find the road if you're navigating. If you just decided the complete driving on Paradise Road, you would find Mystery Road. Presumably. Unless it's so invisible that you don't even realize it exists. Driving right by it. But we found it.

Cristina: Yes, he found it. I don't know. That's a. That's a mystery itself. I don't know.

Jack: Well, I'll give you the next weird part. Mystery Road people have only ever seen people leaving it at night. Every single report was about night. Nobody has ever even reported seeing Mystery Road in the daytime.

Cristina: So you think Mystery Road doesn't exist in the daytime? I don't know.

Jack: I don't know. It's just. That's a really weird detail. Yeah, because now we're at a category I just called the Fringe.

Cristina: It's.

Jack: These are reports from non residential people that are.

Cristina: That stumble upon Mystery Road.

Jack: To stumble upon Mystery Road. Nobody has ever reported seeing something and it be daylight.

Cristina: It's at night.

Jack: They've only seen people leaving the road at night. If they are seeing the road during the daylight, they're just ignoring it because they don't see anybody coming in around.

Cristina: That could be. That could be.

Jack: Could totally be. But all the mentions of somebody coming out happen at night.

Cristina: Why just that night.

Jack: And nobody claims they've seen anybody go in.

Cristina: And you were there at night and.

Jack: I was there at night. Stumbled by accident onto Mystery Road. It was so obviously there.

Cristina: But you didn't stumble upon anyone. I mean, you did, but not on.

Jack: Not on Mystery Road. It wasn't even Paradise.

Cristina: Paradise. Maybe he came from that place.

Jack: Well, the. A consistent mention on Paradise Road. I didn't experience this and I didn't even know this was happening until I found it. Is that robed and cloaked men have been seen not coming in or out, but wandering around Mystery Road. Like the entrance of Paradise Road to Mystery Road, but also only at night. Which would see exactly what I saw on Clinton Road.

Cristina: They have to live there. They live there. It's a town of cults.

Jack: It sounds like a cult right off the bat.

Cristina: There's a cult lives inside the woods.

Jack: Yeah, checks out. Reminds me of. What was that movie? The movie. Just like that. Whatever. Some movie about them people living in the woods. Hate enough I mean, there's probably crap ton of societies like that too. Just f*** society.

Cristina: We just gotta come over here. That's crazy.

Jack: Weird. But that also explains them being not friendly. Because it's like, you don't belong here. You're in the wrong part of the woods, kid.

Cristina: That guy that you saw, he wasn't like. It wasn't like he was unfriendly. He didn't even like seem to know you existed or did he respond to you?

Jack: Did not acknowledge that we were even present. Didn't look in our direction, no nothing. He kept moving like we weren't there.

Cristina: I mean, that could be seen as unfriendly to other people. Like, it could be that they see something, some guy, and the guy does.

Jack: You know, ignores their existence.

Cristina: Yeah. And then they're like, oh, he's unfriendly.

Jack: It could totally be.

Cristina: It could totally be something like that.

Jack: Some of the reports are that they're just asking for directions and the people completely ignore them. But then this, this has a very, very reminiscent thing to it. What if they literally can't see you? What if they literally have no idea you're there and that's why they're ignoring you?

Cristina: What is that? Would that mean they come from a different time? The houses are 1800s.

Jack: There's something weird.

Cristina: There's something weird happening there.

Jack: Weird. Weird.

Cristina: This has to do with time travel. I don't know what is happening, but.

Jack: If it's time travel, they can still see you. They're just coming from a different time. You go in and you're somewhere else.

Cristina: But like a time bubble, you're seeing into the past.

Jack: Why can you walk where they are? You shouldn't be able to. You would just cross through. Every time bubble is like that. You just cross through. You're on the other side now. Usually they're in weird positions that you'd have to specifically navigate through. But we're talking. You've seen people come out and then you go in that same direction.

Cristina: Nothing happens.

Jack: Nothing happens. Weird.

Cristina: That is weird.

Jack: Now, other reports by people. The roads in the neighborhood. People have gone into paradise. Neighborhood. The roads and homes seem to change positions. I saw the roads change positions. I think our panic didn't allow us to pay attention to the houses. These people have claimed they've seen the same house twice. Driving in a straight line. Identical.

Cristina: Spooky. That's very spooky.

Jack: Yes. That the houses change consistently.

Cristina: The town is haunted. What is happening? It's not a real town or it's a real town. I don't know.

Jack: I don't know. And people have claimed to this site. Can I can definitely speak to this one. People have claimed to have found themselves trapped, driving in circles, unable to find the access road, AKA Mystery Road. Sometimes for several hours. In this small area. Yeah.

Cristina: That is. That is so scary. For some hours.

Jack: Hours. Trying to find the access road. Panicking. Not knowing. And what the f***. It was there the whole time. Maybe it wasn't.

Cristina: Maybe it wasn't. How is the whole place moving? Is it really there? But it looks like it's there. I don't know. And there's people. But are those people really there? They're not even.

Jack: Next point. Nobody who's entered the town has ever seen a person in it. Nobody has ever reported seeing a person after they've gone through Mystery Road into the neighborhood. They've never once seen anyone. Ever. No one has ever seen anybody in paradise.

Cristina: It's a ghost town. It's a ghost town. Maybe. I don't know. No. No. Yes. Maybe. I don't know.

Jack: That's so strange. Nobody has ever seen anyone ever.

Cristina: Never. Never outside of it.

Jack: Just outside of it.

Cristina: And those people don't even see you.

Jack: Those people ignore you like you don't exist.

Cristina: And they're dressed so old fashioned and they sometimes fashion home.

Jack: No. Some people come out in pickups and they'll just ignore you. But they have seen roped people not going in or out. The people they've seen coming out, just normal looking people who are ignoring the out of you. The people hanging around the outside who aren't coming in or out. Robed and cloaked individuals.

Cristina: What is happening? Okay. There was a guy in the pickup though.

Jack: Yeah. They've seen cars come out. People have asked for directions. No response. They'll just ignore you.

Cristina: What?

Jack: They won't even acknowledge that they're there.

Cristina: Just so it's not a ghost town or is it a ghost town? I don't know. Why is it moving around?

Jack: Which I can talk to the roads moving around. I. We did not. We were too young and too panicked after everything. After we lost Mystery Road.

Cristina: Yeah. You didn't even notice if any move. If any homes moved. You would not notice.

Jack: Crap. I can tell you for a fact Mystery Road moved.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Because we saw it on the other side of the town.

Cristina: And even though you don't see people in the town, the lights are off. Like there's no lights. There's street lights. At least.

Jack: We saw no light. I remember that so specifically. The only lights we saw the Entire were coming from the car's headlights. Everything we saw was shined through that. Not a single light. That's also another note. Nobody has ever seen lights or electricity or anything. Nothing. Always dark. Only your car lights shine it. It's almost exactly like Clinton Road. Not one light.

Cristina: I don't know then this might be like that. The castle where people just go to do rituals or whatever.

Jack: Except the houses don't look worn down. Everything is maintained.

Cristina: There's paved roads, but no one's there.

Jack: But nobody has ever seen a single person in the neighborhood.

Cristina: Is it just for show what is happening?

Jack: But that's crazy. Nobody has seen a single person ever. I found that so strange. You've seen people come out, but you've never seen one soul inside.

Cristina: That is very strange. What's happening? Is it. I don't know if it's ghost related or not. Is.

Jack: I don't know either. I just like reading about this and really doing some research on this. The. The visual of Mystery Road just vanishing is so clear to me. Straight line. We do a 180 drive right back where we came from. The road isn't there. We take a right because there's nowhere else to go. The road just kind of. We were on the. There was only woods to one side and the houses to the other side. So you turn around. Now the woods are to your right. And eventually you hit the point where you have to take a right.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And then we're wandering maybe 10 minutes. And nowhere where we came in through do we find Mystery Road. Total opposite side. I would argue it's literally across. Not even in front or to the side of it. It was literally across. If we came in through Paradise Road to the bottom, this road would have in theory been facing Clinton Road. Except we took it and came out back to paradise.

Cristina: Who made this? What is this? It's a maze in the woods. It's huge. It's a huge maze.

Jack: Less than 50,000. It's not even a huge maze. It's tiny. It's just impossible to navigate.

Cristina: Yeah. How does it do what it it's doing? What's the explanation to that?

Jack: It is very complicated. I don't know what the h*** is happening. I have no. Definitely worth. It was worth looking at this because of what the h***.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Now all of that. And it's not even the weirdest part. None of that. None of that is the weirdest part. The fringe category is not the category that comes next called the strangest. So the weirdest part of Paradise Road is None of the above mentioned, but rather the one most striking important coincidence. At the very center of the neighborhood, there's a church. In the center, at the very center of the neighborhood, there's a church.

Cristina: That church is a portal. I don't know what's happening.

Jack: Oh, and the church appears to be at the center. Regardless of how you travel it, of how you travel it or what, shift or whatever, it doesn't matter how anything else changes.

Cristina: Mayhem should go in that church. Did you see it? Do you remember church?

Jack: I do not remember seeing the church. I don't remember paying too much attention to the structures at all. Yeah, we were in a state of panic. We were just trying to scare each other and having fun until the road vanished. And then it was like, oh, f***. And then the car stopped turning on at that moment too. We panicked for a moment, tried to turn it on. The car didn't turn on. Then it finally did after a couple of moments of messing with it. And it's a car that's in perfect condition always. And that's never happened before.

Cristina: Yeah. So what's the description of the church, though?

Jack: The church, it appears to be a late 1800s design. The church has zero windows and zero entrances other than the front entrance. So you cannot see into it, you cannot see lights, you cannot see anything. There's no way to look inside. Triangular roof, boxy shape, and a front pillar with a cross. The end. Yeah, very old school. Nothing else going on.

Cristina: I don't know. This place doesn't sound real. It feels like it's a staged. A staged thing, like, I don't know, it doesn't seem like people really live there. It's just for show.

Jack: So who the h*** is coming out? Why are there people who look like they live there coming out?

Cristina: Hmm?

Jack: Who are these weirdos hanging around the entrance?

Cristina: Well, we don't know if they live there. It doesn't seem like anyone lives there. If they're. They're going there for something, I don't think it's for living there. I don't think anyone lives there.

Jack: Weird, right?

Cristina: It's for sure to hide whatever they're actually doing there. Whatever that's used for, there's something that's being used for.

Jack: Most people have never seen the church, though. Really? Some people have. Most people haven't. People who've been there. The majority of them have never seen it. I'm among the people who've never seen it.

Cristina: Yes, but everyone that has, it's been in the same exact.

Jack: Presumably the people who've been lost there for hours.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Because it's really f****** difficult to get to the center if everything is continuously changing and throwing you back out to the edges.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: If everything is always throwing you to the edges, getting to the center must be so f****** complicated. And like we saw in Google Maps, it's not even that big. A couple of houses, maybe. How the h*** can you find it so difficult to get to the middle?

Cristina: I don't know. That's strange.

Jack: The changing and shifting keeps spitting you out, always to the edge.

Cristina: It doesn't want you to get there.

Jack: They just want you to reach it. And a few people who have have no idea to know what the h***'s inside. It's just a church. An old abandoned church. Except the church, by the accounts of the people who've seen it, is the most kept. Well location in the entire neighborhood. It looks old, but it has the freshest paint job. The land around it is the most clean.

Cristina: So most likely that's the important thing. That's what people are. The people that know, the people that actually travel there. That's where they're going. Going to that church. They're dressed like it. It makes sense. I don't know.

Jack: Yeah. It's the best maintained structure. And its design is the oldest. Simultaneously and additionally. Additionally. Nobody has ever seen the road during the daytime. Mystery Road. Which means nobody has ever driven through Paradise Road. I mean, paradise neighborhood during the daytime. Nobody's ever navigated the town during the day, which means they've only ever seen the church at night.

Cristina: Yeah. Which mean it could be they. Those people could be using it at the daytime when no one's there.

Jack: Nobody can get there.

Cristina: No one can get there.

Jack: The neighborhood is just inaccessible. But then what the h*** happens to Mystery Road? It should be more visible during the day. Mystery Road should be most visible during the day. I don't know.

Cristina: That's weird. It's a lot of witchy stuff. I don't know yet.

Jack: Nobody has ever seen the road during the day. They've only ever seen the road at night, which means they've only ever seen people come out of it at night, which means they've only ever driven at night. And people have only ever been in paradise at night. Nobody has ever driven in paradise during the daytime. Nobody has any idea what that would look like.

Cristina: That's probably where things happen. Is probably during the daytime.

Jack: Weird, man.

Cristina: And like, we're. We. There's no. It's impossible to know, though. Unless we go.

Jack: We gotta go there personally. Go and we would have to go during the day.

Cristina: But then who knows? Maybe it will be missing.

Jack: There will be nothing, we'll see nothing. We'll go there and have wasted our time because there's nothing. Which means we have to go at night. That would be the only way. But honestly, that's the time I would want to go there at least. Yeah, we need a big group of people. Cameras and everything. Record every moment of it. 20 people. We're all going. Caravan of cars.

Cristina: Yes. We gotta go into that church. What's happening in that church? Yeah, people in robes. Obviously the church is being used for something, right?

Jack: Yeah, that. Total. Total connection. Total connection. People in robes. The church being the most maintained upkept place. But the houses are well kept too.

Cristina: There's no lights anywhere. There's no lights anywhere. But there's no lights on the church here.

Jack: There's no lights on the church either. There's no lights anywhere. Zero seeming electricity. Yeah, but again, some of the houses look like they were built in the 90s. Electricity definitely happened. No power lines.

Cristina: I don't know. But I don't think that's a real town. I don't think it's a family generated generations of family living there. I think it's the generations of cult leaders living there.

Jack: You think the whole neighborhood is of cults? Is of one cult. Yeah, but that would mean they live there.

Cristina: I don't. I don't know. I don't think they live there.

Jack: So what the h*** would be the point of building these houses?

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: Especially if nobody can enter.

Cristina: I don't know. The whole thing is very strange.

Jack: It's really weird.

Cristina: It's really weird. Do they live there? Because like no one's. There's no proof that they do live there.

Jack: There's no proof that anybody has ever been there other than the people driving through.

Cristina: Yeah. We just know that we see cult members all over everywhere else around this spot. Yes, everywhere.

Jack: Everywhere. Even completely off of Paradise Road. That's where I saw it.

Cristina: Clinton Road is covered. The whole woods area is covered. The castle is covered. Like where are they not?

Jack: My bet would be they actually do live there. Whatever cult performs rituals at the castle lives in Paradise. I think paradise is the residential area for the cult, for the people who do whatever in that whole thing. And I would argue that so is the entrance to what's left of the castle. And it's probably in that church.

Cristina: Is this what Silent Hill is based on?

Jack: I don't know. But I bet the entrance to the castles to not even the castle.

Cristina: To the mines, to the mine.

Jack: The secret entrance to the mines is probably in that church. I bet that it's there. If it's not there, it's in a random indescript location. And they are the only ones who know exactly where it is. Probably a manhole cover in the middle of nowhere, covered by leaves. And you gotta like know exactly where it is to even find it.

Cristina: But it's as possible that it's in the town.

Jack: It's as possible that it's right there and that that's why it's the hardest thing to find. People can't even get to the church. Nine times out of ten just wandering lost. People don't even see a church. I never saw a church. There's a s***. We were lost for like 10 minutes. That town is not a 10 minute drive. But we never saw the center of that town. I know we tried to go through the center of the town. I guess we never really noticed that we never got to the center of the town. Now thinking in hindsight, how the h*** were we always on the edge of the town? That's weird. I never thought about that. We were always on the edge of the town and we took turns in every direction but we were always at the edge of the town. Even driving in, we would just come out to the other edge. I guess. It just obviously such a small town. You don't question it. You're just like, oh yeah, obviously I just got to the other side already. But I never saw a church. And I would have sworn to you I went through the center of the town.

Cristina: I wonder. Like there must be a secret path to get there then.

Jack: Like a combination of roads.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And that all the other roads essentially just kind of fling you around it so you don't ever mm. Get there.

Cristina: Yeah. Like if you try to not get to the center, I bet you're more likely to find the center or something.

Jack: There's probably exactly one turn you would take that would then take you to a series of other ones. And you got to take exactly one of those turns because they would spit you out. And then again you have to take specifically one other turn. So just a series of only this one, only that one. And they would take you there. Which means people have found it by total accident.

Cristina: Yes. Which is has to be the case. Yeah.

Jack: And then the structure of the houses have been intentionally built to be identical to one another to be extra confusing so that you don't know where you are at any given Moment because you're not familiar with the town.

Cristina: That's true. Like you could be looking. People think they're seeing that same house again. But it could just be that whoever made that town made it really identical. Yeah.

Jack: It's meant to confuse you as you're going through it.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So, man, did I just pass and it's the same number. Maybe not. Maybe it's literally just. I mean, it's literally the same number, but it's not the same house. It was just meant to look that way to f*** with your head.

Cristina: Yes. Okay. That makes way more sense. It's not a ghost town. It's not. It's. There's a reason. It's an actual maze.

Jack: It's an actual maze. And if that's the case, in the center is either the entrance to the mines, the real entrance to the mines. Which means the people from this town can actually sneak into anyone's house through the underground tunnels. All the other five towns are at the mercy of this one neighborhood. Or it's not that. And this is a literal maze designed as a channeling location. And that church is as we would call the entrance.

Cristina: It could be both. Like, it's so weird. It's so weird that I can imagine that it's both.

Jack: Could totally be. It could totally. Like the top floor has the, quote, entrance to coming into the church. And the. Somewhere, you know, you go down a couple of stairs, a spiral staircase or some nonsense. And you get to the entrance to the mines.

Cristina: Yes. He's like, why were they hanging out that church? It's. It's because that's. They know about that. The mines. I think they know about the mines. I don't think it was about the church at all.

Jack: It's probably the people who've controlled the mines this entire time. Which means they would have. It's not just the neighborhood. It's the entire network of tunnels underneath and not just the entire net. Who knows how much other crap exists underground. We've had 70 years to continue excavating and building homes underground and building other things on top of the fact that we know about the one that is underneath where the castle was particularly large. Entire chambers. Rooms bigger than the neighborhood itself. The entire grounds underneath the castle are bigger than the neighborhood itself. So you could fit everybody who lives in the neighborhood. Assuming this is the case, you could have 20 times the amount of people that could live in the neighborhood living underground.

Cristina: Very strange. Very strange. What is this cult doing? Whoa.

Jack: Unless they're not even living underground. There's Way more complicated crap happening down there. We do have Clinton Road being the most supernatural place on planet Earth. There's nothing more supernatural.

Cristina: Paradise is more supernatural. And it's such a secret that we wouldn't even know.

Jack: We wouldn't even know. No stories, no nothing. Can't even find it.

Cristina: Yeah. What's happening? How does Mystery Road. Mystery Road, not a road. I don't know.

Jack: Mystery Road doesn't exist. Paradise has no people.

Cristina: But they're all connected. It's all connected.

Jack: It's all one thing somehow.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: I couldn't tell you how. There's not enough information. But it's all one thing somehow.

Cristina: I wish we could learn something about this cult. There's no name on it. No guesses.

Jack: Nope. People have no idea. The closest they got was referring to them as Druids.

Cristina: Druids.

Jack: And then changing that name to satanic cults.

Cristina: Okay. And the kkk.

Jack: And the kkk. All of that. Yeah. That's which. None of the above. The closest would be the Druids.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: If anything, Druids is what we'll call them because of how weird this is. The KKK doesn't have powers, bro.

Cristina: The h*** out of here.

Jack: Unless. The original purpose of the KKK was in order to create stones. Which would make sense of the sacrifices.

Cristina: Well, now we gotta go look into the kkk, I guess. I don't know. See the history.

Jack: That's all I got. That's all I managed to find about the town. I will call it.

Cristina: It's the town.

Jack: Neighborhood Town is why I was calling it Neighborhood Town. It totally checks out.

Cristina: Right?

Jack: The neighborhood town called Paradise.

Cristina: It's a mystery itself. It's a mystery. A mystery road leads to a mysterious town.

Jack: And the mysterious town is a maze in itself that nobody has ever been seen inside. Ever. Nobody has ever seen somebody in there at least seen it and reported it?

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: If they have, they never talked about it. Which tells us way more information. You saw it and never talked about it. Where are you then? Did you see somebody and then never made it out?

Cristina: Yes. That would be the other option.

Jack: That'll be the other option. Maybe you have seen people, which we.

Cristina: Know many people disappear.

Jack: Many people disappear. Many hundreds.

Cristina: Is this part of what's going on with that?

Jack: It's 100%. It's possible that every single person that went missing along Clinton Road actually went there. It's absolutely possible that's the case. Every single person that went missing found this road and never came out.

Cristina: They saw something they weren't supposed to.

Jack: See or someone, I guess don't find it during the daytime, buddy. That seems to be the case. If you see somebody there, you're. That could be the case.

Cristina: That could be. They don't do anything outside. They don't do anything.

Jack: I saw. Dude, just ignore me. Just ignore all of us.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Didn't react, didn't respond. No, nothing. We just weren't there to him.

Cristina: And he was hunting. Which fits. If they're all just living in.

Jack: Because of the deer.

Cristina: Yeah. That just goes with the whole. They're living there. They just live there.

Jack: Self sustained.

Cristina: Yep.

Jack: Interesting. But that's all I got. That's all I got. That's all it is. Weird. Strange. Oddest place ever. Definitely fits the character of every weird other that's going on there. And definitely seems to be at least related to the center of what's happening.

Cristina: Yes. These entrances, they're all. They all have this whatever mystery thing going on. This mazes and puzzles and something patterns. All of it just very similar looking.

Jack: All three instances. The mansion, the labyrinth and the town.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: All the complicated maze that could throw you anywhere and are all impossible to navigate and all have the entrance at the center.

Cristina: Yeah. If you have a far away. They look completely different but you zoom in, it's the same thing.

Jack: And on Google Maps we can clearly see a circular formation. We can see the very little bit.

Cristina: Of roof tips of the roots or something.

Jack: Yeah. Through the trees, it's very little. And then the big one in the.

Cristina: Middle, which is probably the church.

Jack: It's probably a church. Weird.

Cristina: Weird.

Jack: Anyways, anybody who has any kind of information related to this, please either the.

Cristina: Mystery Road or Paradise Road.

Jack: Mystery Road. Paradise Road or Paradise, the neighborhood town. If you have any information on any of this, please feel free to contact us and tell us about it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: If you live there and all of this is bullshit and the Internet is making it up. Yes, reach out. Tell us about your neighborhood. Yeah, tell us about your neighborhood. We're curious and yeah, you could do that on our socials. That's at just convopad. On Twitter, on Instagram, on Facebook, on TikTok.

Cristina: Remember to subscribe, rate and review the show.

Jack: Yes. Word of mouth is a really overpowered thing and if you want. If maybe you know people who are into this and can inform us, tell that person to listen.

Cristina: Yes. And hopefully they'll hear us asking them to contact us. And they'll contact us. Who knows? Yes, contact us, please.

Jack: Yes, tell us.

Cristina: This has been the Rambling podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Bye. S.A. good morning. Good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by great dots.info art by 0lupo and logo by Seth McAllister, with social media managed by Amber Black.

Rambling 281: Clinton Road: Part 2: Shadows

If Ghosts we title Echoes are visible time loops that can’t be interacted with, what is its opposite? Can Phantoms be interacted with? What are they? The duo continue unpacking the narratives around Clinton Road on their endless quest to understand what happened in their childhood. No longer looking at Echoes, they focus on the things that react to visitors. The stones uncovered will reveal some new perspectives never before visited on the show!

+Episode Details

  • Demonic Truck
  • Ghost Children
  • Disembodied Voices
  • Headless Horseman
  • Pine Barrens Devil
  • Melting Trees
  • Shifting Paths
  • Ghostly Campers

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod

Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod

Instagram - https://instagram.com/justconvopod


+Transcript

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And this is the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas. And so we do that.

Cristina: Do that every week.

Jack: We do that every week. We do that all the time. And so, you know, in the last couple of years, we've gotten way informed on a lot of sort of esoteric and stoic knowledge. Things hidden, you know, the, the secret scriptures and the secret texts and lost civilization things, and cross referencing information that suggested so many things. Anybody who's been following knows what we're talking about. So we've used this knowledge recently because it looks like we were digging into an infinite hole.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So let's use the knowledge instead of continuing to dig the infinite hole and apply it to other places that have very similar conditions. And so we've started to unravel things. And so last week we're digging a new hole. No, we're using the information we have from the hole to compare to other things and be like, oh, this looks like this over here and it looks like that over there. Okay, no more hole digging until something here informs us on which tool to go continue digging with. But point being that we were last week kind of going through some of the information that we were not talking about. But you know, we in the past have come across Clinton Road, which is a really odd place. And it had a lot of similarities to some of the things that we've recently uncovered. We've seen that we can find residue of high energy technology and it usually takes the form of space time alterations and odd anomalies. So looking for things like this informs us. And so two weeks ago we looked at a scenario that was heftily informed. I believe that was a skin walk around.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And then before that again, we had another instance, some creepy mansion.

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: The mansion. Yes. And directly after the Skinwalker Ranch, we did Stonehenge. All which have the same things. And what we find is the same things. Gateways and distortions and a lot of quote, ghosts.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So last week we go to the place we know has all of these things happening simultaneously on top of each other. And like I said, I broke it into three sections because there was absolutely too much happening in this one place and.

Cristina: Ridiculous amount.

Jack: Yes, too much. And for anybody who's not familiar, many, many, many years ago, maybe like four or five Years ago, we dove into the experience me and two friends had there, three friends. Of course, we couldn't get a contact with them, but we brought to them on the show. We talked to them and everything about how strange that place was. Everybody had different stories. Whatever. You guys can go look at it. It's Clinton Road. I think it was Halloween episode. It was like three episodes long or whatever. And last week, we were just going over anything that we would identify as an echo, a sort of replay of a different moment that is not interactable necessarily, but rather something that's happening but not now.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And there was a lot, some things of which were very important that we need to look at in the future. But that was only one of three sections I'd made because that was just the echoes. This week, I would like us to dive into the things that do respond to people. Not that just play on a loop, but the things in Clinton Road that seem to not be an echo, that seem to actually be a thing of some sort.

Cristina: Like a conscience thing.

Jack: Something thinking. Yeah, something responsive. Something maybe dangerous, maybe not.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But that can respond. That seems to be moving with intention as opposed to a replay of a moment.

Cristina: Horrifying.

Jack: So next to the word phantoms, I've put conscious. I've put thinking intentional entities that are non human and probably could be from a different realm. I'm assuming the shadow realm, because Elfame or any higher level might be unlikely.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So let's unpack some of these details. This is a little bit shorter than the echoes of which there were many. This is still pretty long, but it was just a couple shorter. So let's start by going into the pickup truck. This is probably the most known thing on this road. There's literally movies that have taken this concept and rolled with it. And it's just some menacing black pickup truck that allegedly chases drivers at night, only vanishing when there's another car coming towards them or when they are successfully in something faster. And funny enough, it faster is very exact thing, because faster is conditional. People have been in supercars running down the street, and this pickup keeps up.

Cristina: That's weird.

Jack: That's weird. But if this pickup truck isn't physically here, if this pickup truck is in a different space where whatever is there knows how to manipulate the sort of distortion to cover ground faster, then it would look like you have this sort of ghost truck following you at an impossibly fast speed. But maybe on their side, it's normal speed, but they know how to move in such a way that over here we move fast.

Cristina: How do we know this isn't an echo? What makes it different?

Jack: Because it does interact with people. This is where the speed becomes very important because the vanishing and the fact that it's on the road. Very interesting here. Now it has moved around cars. Oh, it has moved around cars. It has diverted to hit cars. Somebody jumps off the road and it'll jump off the road behind them.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: That's very, very different than something on replay. Now, what's weird about this place is that it seems to happen at exactly between four and six miles, nowhere outside that range, which means there is a particular heavy amount of distortion that somebody's abusing there, I suspect, at least.

Cristina: Yes, but not the person driving the truck. They're just driving their truck.

Jack: They're not. I think that there's just a nice little fold.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Of the two realms here. And he's just on his end, but he can clearly see because people from the shadow realm can just see us or whatever the f***. I have no idea how that works. Maybe it's the same that, like, as fear manifests, we start showing up over there more and they start showing up over here more, and so the lines start to blur.

Cristina: It could. Like, we don't have any proof of that. But why can't it be that.

Jack: Yeah, it'd be weird if it was just one way in this direction.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But then it's. Yeah, I guess it would. I guess the argument would be that it's not that they're coming over here, but the veil is thinning.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And so we're sort of coming closer together in general.

Cristina: That could be it. We don't know.

Jack: Yeah, because we've always thought about it like, oh, the people from the shadow realm with fear start coming this way, but, like.

Cristina: Because it seems easier for them for it to be that way.

Jack: Yeah. But when we think about it, if they aren't actually over here, how are they seeing us? Yes, we're seeing them because they're phasing over here. But are they seeing themselves over there and themselves over here? That can't. That doesn't. Make sense.

Cristina: That doesn't make sense.

Jack: No, they're probably just seeing us start to fade in over there, and then they start to prey on us.

Cristina: Yes. Yep.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: That could be. That could be. I know there's ways in and out, but there's this other thing of just, like we're somehow in between both.

Jack: Yes. We're somehow at all times, well connected enough. And it's. It's a dial Right. You could turn it and sort of enhance how much of the entanglement is how much is crossed in that moment.

Cristina: How's that happening? But, yeah, I think that might be what's happening.

Jack: And in the case of this truck, I think that 4 to 6 mile range is a particularly dense area, which brings up an interesting point. Maybe this is a focal point of one of the major events that took.

Cristina: Place here in the future. Maybe. Question, I believe. Yeah.

Jack: Because there's. We look back and we find so little. We look. Well, we can't look forward. But the fact that, again, it's possible that a spacetime distortion from the future ruins the past, because that's how it works. It's space time.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And this distortion is huge here. But also the logic could be that it's a long, long street with no lights.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Maybe people start to panic around the same distance.

Cristina: I wonder. I wonder what it is. I wonder if we'll find a glimpse of what really happens in the future, though, through this conversation. Maybe eventually, like. Because the weird thing that happens there may even be from the shadow realm. Because we know they do experiments like we do. They do experiments here, but they also do experiments there. So what if this is just a spot where both sides were doing experiments?

Jack: Doesn't even have to be both sides doing experiments, because there's many instances just this side doing experiments, and that can mess it up. So why wouldn't it be that only on that side and cause the same thing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Especially after we know that it's almost like we are in the same space, but somehow a barrier was built to divide them. There's a wall that was put in between this realm and that realm. There isn't. The word realm ceases to lose meaning when we back up far enough because, well, this is just, you know, that room. And then he put walls around that room and called it Earth Realm.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It's hard for us to get out the room, but we can.

Cristina: Yeah. It is up or down.

Jack: That's how it seems to be in every direction. Yeah. Which. It's weird, but this kind of really leans into the flatter theory. Right. Of like, well, they walled us in, but they're really out there. There's more.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: I mean, weirdly enough, that's kind of on the nose, but about the wrong thing.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: But, yeah, this truck is responsive. It is responsive. It chases people. My idea is 10 miles Clinton Road, 4 to 6 miles. But what does that mean? That means if I enter from north, four miles in. If I enter from south, four miles in. It's the same distance either way. It could just be the people within. Like, as you start getting more and more. You start getting more panicking, more paranoid. And so in the middle is where people are the most freaked out. Which would make sense that enough people freaked out consistently going through at that level of panic. More and more and more about that truck.

Cristina: Also will be pushing that too.

Jack: Not even hearing about the truck, but hearing about all the other things that happen here.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And then you get to this part, and maybe this guy is just some dude who lives on the other side, but in this part of it. And maybe he is a bad guy.

Cristina: Or he just wants that fear. Like, it's not really about murdering anyone. It's just like he knows he hasn't done.

Jack: Yes. That's another thing I found interesting. So the truck does show up. The truck chases people. But I made sure to mention the weirdest part about this, which is right before he does anything, he always disappears.

Cristina: Yeah. He's about to want it. And then he goes. Yeah.

Jack: He'll jump on the lane you're in from far ahead and drive straight towards you and drive straight at you and then just f****** veer off into the woods and disappear.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It's like he's f****** with you. He's f****** with you.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Whoever that is, just f****** with you. He's not trying to kill you. That's the weirdest part. But it's so intentional. It's like he's f****** with you legitimately in an impossibly fast pickup truck that looks like a moving shadow.

Cristina: Yeah. I wonder if it's possible. It's. He was a human who ended up over there. Fascinating, because there are those cases and.

Jack: There'S hella thin places around here. Could just be slipping in and falling on the other side.

Cristina: Yeah. He just knows what he needs. He's probably was hooked on it. Adrenochrome when he was alive and, you know, died.

Jack: Which then goes back to all the. That's here. There's been cults and there's been sacrifices, and there's been a lot of.

Cristina: Yeah, a lot of adrenal chrome and stuff going on.

Jack: So anytime we find something weird, this is the thing. Right. We realize in the beginning of our journey, adrenochrome is everywhere. Everybody's doing adrenochrome and that's what's up.

Cristina: Yes. But then when those people die, it's even worse.

Jack: It's even worse because they lose their minds on the other side or they. In the Fear of knowing they're gonna lose their mind. They getting desperate to get back over here and get adrenochrome. So.

Cristina: So it could just be one of those people.

Jack: Could definitely be. And as long as he sustains the fear, he doesn't need the blood. Yeah, that could totally make sense. He has to. He has to cultivate it over and over and over. And it's like, I'm stuck over here, but I'm. I'm not gonna go crazy. I refuse. And I'm gonna just with people every day if I have to.

Cristina: Could be. It's really easy for him.

Jack: He's gonna get us fixed. He needs it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: If it's a problem, people up, they. They go in and they don't realize how bad this really is. Now, the next one is children. This one is very specific. Apparitions of children playing on the roadside who vanish upon approach but can be seen waving at passersby. Oh, I thought echo when I was first looking at the mentions of this. And then I started looking deeper in, and it's like some people have these kids get excited, get up, look at them, start running towards them and disappear.

Cristina: It's hard to tell, though, between echo and not echo. It's really, really.

Jack: It is absolutely not the moment something is responsive. The fact that somebody stood there and then they started waving as opposed to. They're just waving at nothing.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The echo would be doing the action regardless. It's not responding to an environment. It's not there.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Anything responsive cannot be an echo by default. This is the easiest distinction to make. It's not difficult.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: It will be responsive. If it's not. If you stand in front of it and you're like, hey. And it's like looking right through you and doesn't notice and walks right through you, and that's an echo. It doesn't realize you're present. But these kids see a car drive by. People see the kids play. They think ghost. The kids see the car. The kids, excited, get up and wave. What's weird about this is that they're not trying to get to the street. They're not trying to get to the street. They're just aware of the cars passing by, and so they wave.

Cristina: That's so weird.

Jack: Like, they know they can't make it.

Cristina: How many children is.

Jack: It varies.

Cristina: It varies.

Jack: But it's like they know they can't get to the street. There's an awareness of, oh, it's another car coming. How there's another weird thing from the.

Cristina: Other side that is weird. But is there they just look like normal children, too?

Jack: It's unclear. Small people.

Cristina: Small people.

Jack: Small people that appear to be children playing. Yeah, it's Clinton Road. Nothing is a specific description. It's night. Always.

Cristina: It's always night. Okay.

Jack: Yeah. It's impossible. Any clear description you want, you will not get. Yeah, this is Clinton Road at night, every time. And, like, kids that's in the woods, like, how detailed can you get?

Cristina: That is so creepy.

Jack: Yeah. But the fact that they know you're there, they'll just be minding their business. A car rolls by, somebody. Oh, kids. And then the kids and like, oh, my God, let's just keep going. But ultimately, the kids notice cars, but.

Cristina: If you stop, they would just be gone.

Jack: No, if they run towards you, there's like a barrier that they can't make it past because they vanish.

Cristina: Oh, okay. Oh, that's even scarier. Oh, my gosh. They run towards you and then just.

Jack: Yeah. So my idea would be that unlike visual thin places that we can see through and look to a different time or an echo that's just a fold repeating. I think this would be a literal. Not just thin places towards the past, but thin places towards the shadow realm. And, like, they can see through, but it's bubbles that they can't get through. Weirdly enough, same as us thousand years ago, looking at the sky and seeing a plane. And it's just because on the other side of the bubble, a plane went in front of it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So there must be in front of this playground or whatever, a thin place just at the right angle that you can see it for maybe a hundred feet or so into the other side, and they can see you back and then you can interact, but beyond a certain angle, you can't. That's what it seems to me. Because they are responsive. They look in the wave, excited to see, and then they're just not there suddenly. But only do it when there's somebody you don't arrive and they're already in the motion. They're always awesome. Kids saw me and they came and they were coming to say hi, and they just not there suddenly. Yeah, it's pretty up.

Cristina: That's. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I guess that there's children on that side. Why not?

Jack: Why wouldn't there be? They're just people. Jin are just people.

Cristina: Yeah. Okay.

Jack: But I think this falls into something from the shadow room. The fact that they see the cars and they get excited. They're just kids. They're not trying to f*** with people. The way that pickup is they're really genuinely just kids or seems to be to people.

Cristina: But that's. That's it.

Jack: Yeah. They seem childish. The next one gets to more personal areas for me, which is disembodied voices, whispering voices heard in the woods, often leading people to feel as though they're being watched or followed.

Cristina: This is one that they say your name. We heard we were talking about one before on the last episode about someone saying your name.

Jack: This is unrelated to anything from last episode. These are all new things.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Yeah. This is just voices.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And these voices seem to be following people and it makes people feel like they're being watched. But mainly is that they're being followed because the voices are continuously behind them or next to them, around them. The voices tend to be unclear, but the voices seem like they're speaking a language. But it's also very, very off putting and very disturbing. The sort of guttural sounds that get made. It sounds like language, but like a demon is talking to people. It's the best way that people have described it. I would argue that we're hearing Jin language.

Cristina: Okay. Like shadow realm.

Jack: Yeah. And like it just sounds up to us because we've never discussed what it would sound like to speak in a place that's not physical. You don't have. You don't have vocal cords or anything.

Cristina: But they got. I would assume they have some kind of language because we do hear about people who do go over there and communicate with them.

Jack: And here's another thing. If I don't understand. I was thinking about this and just because I said this, it made me think about it again. I don't understand how it is that all the old text we find describes the shadow realm as a non physical place. But physical beings can so easily traverse. But also adrenochrome makes you traverse. I don't understand that problem. Because you have to stop being physical to get there with adrenochrome. But you can. Like the judge just walked in.

Cristina: Well, we don't know his life. What if he had Jesse? He had adrenal crown before.

Jack: How do you get back out? How does anybody go in and out? How do you get your body into a non physical place and then walk out still physical. Your body doesn't just dissolve and disappear and you can't ever come back. That doesn't make sense. There's some interpretation that's wrong there. Because that is a conflict of description is contradicting.

Cristina: It's a paradox.

Jack: You can't both be physical on the other side and not be physical on the other side. On the flip side, we do discuss ourselves as physical and non physical. There is a soul version of me that's controlling my body and then there's the body that the soul is controlling. There's the physical and the metaphysical simultaneously. But then that means that all the descriptions they have of the other side are f****** stupid because it's just this. But over there. Well, it's a non physical place. Your souls and stuff. It's like. You mean like we have over here?

Cristina: But is our body going in there? Our body's falling asleep and then we go in there. Like how does that.

Jack: I don't know. How would the Judge enter on earth realm on this side, take a shortcut in there and then pop out somewhere else? His body then just flatline over here and stay there unconscious, and then teleport to the other side of Earth?

Cristina: Huh?

Jack: Do you see the problem? There are active contradictions. And how this is described. There's something we don't understand necessarily because it's described as such a physical place. And you need adrenochrome to have a certain state. But also, let's think about adrenochrome. It's a physical thing.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Why would it take you somewhere non physical?

Cristina: It has to be just physical in a different way. It's not non physical. It's just.

Jack: Yeah, there's something we're not grasping about it.

Cristina: Yeah, but you need. You need it still to get there and somehow.

Jack: Yes, yes. Even with a gate, you cannot enter the shadow realm unless you've had adrenochrome. We thought adrenochrome meant only after you die. But then later we find out some people can actually just walk in every time except the Judge. That we don't know for a fact. But every other time required adrenochrome. So it's a physical place that requires that no matter what, something about the adrenochrome allows your body to adapt to the conditions of the shadow realm. I don't think it's not a physical place. I think they were focusing on the descriptions of what adrenochrome is doing in order to describe what the place is. Yeah, I think that's the reality of the matter. I don't think it's not a physical place. I think it's a different realm. Obviously it's a different space that requires some alteration physically that is different than what we consider normal on the side. And so in their attempt to describe that, it sounds like you're talking about something non physical.

Cristina: But I don't think you actually. You don't need adrenochrome because necromancers don't. They just need a state of mind. They. They can do it. Yes, they can. Just.

Jack: But there's also heavy understanding. And they have stones that are made of the same thing.

Cristina: They have the stones to do it.

Jack: They have the stones to do it. And it's made of the same thing that adrenochrome is. It's just not in their body. Now this is an interesting point you bring because Adrian, necromancers don't need to consume it yet their body can still exist in the Shadow Realm.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Now let's take a step back because we don't have an instance of a necromancer in the Shadow Realm that we've ever read. We just know it says they can. But the only time we have them actually traversing instead of giving somebody the way to is through Elfhame. And we don't even know if they physically stand in Elfame as opposed to use Elfame to cut through.

Cristina: That's exactly what it seems like.

Jack: Yeah. Which means they're not entering the Shadow Realm either.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: Because we've never had a single discussion that says they entered the Shadow Realm. They just know how to get there. Which presumably means they know how to navigate the Shadow Realm even if they don't enter the Shadow Realm as a shortcut. Another shortcut. They can get anywhere, anytime, however they want.

Cristina: Yeah. That's so weird though. What is that? What?

Jack: Unless Elfame and the Shadow Realm are physical, which seems to be the case too. I don't know. It's so many contradictions there. Yes, but maybe if it. If it's not a different layer and it all is seamless, just with barriers like flat earth. A circle within a circle within a circle. If that's the case, then a necromancer literally enters the Shadow Realm. And a necromancer literally enters all fame.

Cristina: But as far as we know, that doesn't happen. Really?

Jack: We don't have a mention of either. Yeah, I've never seen a mention of either of those scenarios happening.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So we don't even have Santa Claus entering the Shadow Room.

Cristina: No.

Jack: Nothing.

Cristina: Jesus. Entering the Shadow Realm after he died. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's.

Jack: The rules feel consistent. There is consistency. He didn't enter. He exited. He died. To get there.

Cristina: He died. He went to their prison, kidnapped a bunch of them, got some stones.

Jack: People over here thought it was part of their plan. To get rid of Jesus. Little did they know, Jesus planned every part of it. He needed to get over there.

Cristina: Yes, Very weird.

Jack: But then the transition state, I think is important, which then brings up a different problem. Did Hermes have to die? Because one very important thing we have to remember about necromancers is what are they most known for? Relating to the dead. The dead and death.

Cristina: That is interesting.

Jack: That is very interesting.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And Jesus is an example of somebody who didn't touch the other side until he died.

Cristina: So do they have to die?

Jack: Do they all have to?

Cristina: I think so, because Santa Claus, obviously that happened to him. That's why we have this Nicholas, who's so different from Sam. There was some metamorphosis, something that happened there, obviously.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: I don't know about Patrick.

Jack: I don't. I don't know about that. But he's also loosely the bottom tier of this.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Meanwhile, Merlin has several stories of his end.

Cristina: Yes. Yeah, yeah, this is making sense. Yeah.

Jack: So all necromancers must. Or at least it seems to be, death is part of the process.

Cristina: I think so. I think so.

Jack: Mm.

Cristina: It makes sense.

Jack: Which means Hermes probably consumed adrenochrome, but in a scientific correct way that keeps him in control just so he can cross over to the other side.

Cristina: Actually, yeah, I think that's right. I think they had to die.

Jack: I think he had to die. We might not have the text, but we have Jesus the only example of a necromancer entering the shadow realm and he had to die to get there.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: If it was so easy and it was so simple and you could just get there, why do you need to die?

Cristina: That doesn't make sense. Is the Judge.

Jack: Judge doesn't make sense. How do you get in?

Cristina: Unless he was a living dead person and just didn't know it.

Jack: Interest. So in any case, the idea is we have to find Inanna's brother and see what. We gotta really dive into him and.

Cristina: Find out what the stories they have about him does.

Jack: Can we find that the Judge has died? That's the reality of the matter. Can we find if the Judge has died?

Cristina: I think. I think we will find. Because if he has one weird story, I'm sure there's other weird stories he's involved in.

Jack: But then that brings up a really, really, really exaggeratedly interesting question that we didn't cross at any moment.

Cristina: What's that?

Jack: The Judge is the third necromancer. Fourth.

Cristina: Fourth Jesus?

Jack: No, he's like fifth Jesus, Merlin, Santa Patrick, the Judge, and Hermes number six.

Cristina: Oh, Hermes. Yeah.

Jack: Six necromancers in all of history.

Cristina: I would think so. I think so. I think we're on to something.

Jack: So. So then the question is, is the judge a necromancer?

Cristina: He might be even one of them. Like, we don't know. They all live such long lives.

Jack: I know. It's so weird, bro. It's so weird. There's some timeline distortions in this whole narrative. That's f*****. Some people go millions, some people go hundreds of thousands.

Cristina: So many different lies. We know Jesus had so many lives. Like, he wasn't just the Jesus in that place, but he was the whatever in that other place and the whatever in that other place.

Jack: Yeah, but this lives is an exaggeration because we're talking about.

Cristina: No, he was still living one life.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like not even that far apart. We're talking like he was here a couple of months. He was there a couple.

Cristina: Yes, but like that. They all seem to have that type of thing of like, I'm gonna pretend to be this person over there and I don't think.

Jack: I don't. The. The dialogue you're using, I think is incorrect. I don't think it's pretending. I think we're talking about him going to different places where people speak different languages and they're using their interpretation of what his name would be.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And so he lands at a different name and they're using their words to describe him, which is why the words aren't exactly the same, but they're so similar. If we were to paint the picture, he would look the same.

Cristina: Yeah. So this guy could just be someone else that we've met before and we just don't know it.

Jack: Interesting, interesting, interesting. You believe the judge could just be one of these other guys?

Cristina: Like, who knows? Because it's so rare that it would happen. To imagine that this is just another one, it's harder to believe.

Jack: Yeah. But it's also equally hard to believe. Yeah. It's like to imagine he's another one is really hard. And to imagine he's some casual who just enters the shadow realm is even more. Yes. Now here's something that we do have to look at though, because now thinking about it, he can't be a necromancer. He can't be. At least not in a way he's aware of, because he was shocked by the entrance. He had discovered it and was like, what the f***? And then he told his sister and he was like, it's the craziest thing. And she was like, show me. And then that's how they found the kingdom on the other side. He, you know, he became homies as he went through.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So he wasn't a necromancer, at least knowingly. If he was, he maybe stumbled upon a process or something.

Cristina: Probably some story. There's other things, though, that they rarely talk about. Like the plants and the app, the fruits and, you know, things like that.

Jack: There are other ways.

Cristina: So rare. But, like, humans don't interact.

Jack: Like, really.

Cristina: Yes. Like, he might have found one of those things.

Jack: You're totally right. So the science is very likely the fruit hard. You gotta go to the shadow room to do it.

Cristina: Yeah. But, like, there are things that exists that just don't get talked about because.

Jack: Like, plants are on this side and.

Cristina: They'Re, like, heavily guarded. So if he stumbled upon it.

Jack: Not the flower. The flower wasn't. The flower is just a flower.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The flower was not heavily guarded. In fact, the mention we got of it was just somebody figured out that this could do that.

Cristina: Yeah. So, like, he could.

Jack: Maybe that's flowers in more places, but we can't tell it apart from something else. Oh, it's just a flower. But if we saw it and we knew what it was, we can consume it and without. Because we know that adrenochrome is the addictive one. But there are other things. Adrenochrome comes in three parts. It's ichor, it's ambrosia, and it's the literal liquid of nectar. Those are the three states. What is it? Ambrosia is the little organs that are adrenochrome dense. And then there is the. What is ambrosia? There is ichor, which is distilled. It's after it's been consumed. Yeah, it's the blood. I mean, they're all blood, but after it's been distilled, somebody consumed adrenochrome. And now you take the blood of a person who's consumed adrenochrome, and it sort of went through a process.

Cristina: Vampirism.

Jack: And then there is the. Not ambrosia. Nectar, which is just liquid. It's drinking the blood. It's just drinking the blood. It's Jesus's preferred form. But although Jesus is very known for both. He likes ambrosia, he likes to consume the individual, and he likes to drink their blood, too.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Or at least he's discovered is the most efficient combination. It doesn't look like he did ichor, but it looks like he gave people ichor.

Cristina: Yes. He loved sharing it.

Jack: Yes. Now, interesting point. The descriptions. I didn't think about this until right now. The descriptions that we went through about ichor, ambrosia and nectar make it seem like ichor is the valuable one because people who are normal can take it and die. It's super strong. But Jesus was giving people ick. Ichor, not adrenochrome or ambrosia. He was giving himself.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: To them, which is ichor. Even if it's his flesh, that would look like ambrosia. No, he had adrenochrome.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Even if it's his blood that you would call nectar. No, he had adrenochrome. Everything he's given you is actually ichor.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Nobody's as powerful as Jesus. The combination of ambrosia and nectar is stronger than the distilled ichor, which is both of them together. And he was giving his blood as high up on the totem pole as you can get. And still ichor was not as good. Is it because who he is, he can just do it with these two and be as powerful and like somebody having something stronger can't catch up? Or is it that there is an actual better combination to be had with ichor and. Well, I mean, with nectar and ambrosia, then there is to be had with ichor. And he knows the trick to it.

Cristina: He probably knows the trick to it.

Jack: Well, he's also a unique being. Why wouldn't it be the other? Why wouldn't it be that? Just. It doesn't matter what anybody else consumes. He's always going to be spirit.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: You know my point?

Cristina: We don't know what he is is very unique. Yeah.

Jack: Very special. So, yeah, just, you know, food for thought. Okay, next on the list, we have. It's weird about those disembodied voices, by the way.

Cristina: So you heard those disembodied verses.

Jack: Yeah, we heard children and we heard voices. I never saw the kids. But you remember we were hearing kids laugh.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: By the way, important detail. This just so happens to be on the road to paradise.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Which is where we heard the kids.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: That's why I was saying that this is, like, personal.

Cristina: Yeah, that's.

Jack: This is right on the road to paradise, where this has been reported, which is where we were when we heard the kids laughing. Well, first we heard the laughter and we couldn't make it out. And then we pulled on the side where the car just stopped turning on, and then we just started hearing.

Cristina: What is the car turning up or is that something else? I will talk about in the future.

Jack: I don't know. I don't know. That was a weird one. I looked when. Because of hearing the disembodied voices. It made me think about the car turning off. And then I was like, when has this happened? And there aren't mentions of this anywhere. This is just a weird thing that happened. It could have just been that our car was s*******. That was weird time. It was a weird timing. Yes, but, like, what weird timing?

Cristina: What we are timing, I don't understand.

Jack: Like, I can't explain it. But then the other thing is, let's. Let's have a quick. Maybe we're not gonna make it to the end of this. And this part alone is gonna be too. But we have to address this next point because I think I'm about to say something that's gonna make a lot of sense here. We hear the kids laugh. We hear laughter. We get on the dirt road. We pull up to the side just to scare the guys, lower the windows. We start to hear kids actually laughing. We're like, oh, f***. Like we were just f****** around, bros. F*** this. We put the windows up, trying to turn the car on. Wasn't turning on. We finally get the car on and we drive into paradise. Do you remember what happens next?

Cristina: You see a sign.

Jack: Yeah. Deaf children.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And then the. The. The F is slashed and a D is put over it.

Cristina: The children.

Jack: Yeah, but that's not even the important part. What happens in paradise?

Cristina: That's all I remember.

Jack: You don't remember what happens when we drive into paradise?

Cristina: You hear more children. No.

Jack: We tried to get out of paradise and we can't.

Cristina: Oh, yes. I don't know. Okay. Yeah. I don't know.

Jack: It's like you never remember anything I needed to remember. Not once. It's horrible. But we enter paradise and then we can't get out of paradise. Paradise is where we hear children. Paradise is where we hear laughter. Paradise is where the dead children sign is. Where did we enter when we went to paradise?

Cristina: Where did you enter? Some type of loop. Some type of time thing.

Jack: What else looks like a physical place on this side and is not supposed to be because it's a jumbled mess that somebody on this side wouldn't be able to navigate.

Cristina: I know I should know. I don't know.

Jack: I don't understand. What happens in your mind? Obviously the shadow realm, girl. It's the only thing that looks like a physical. I'm gonna just stop trying to get you guessing. It doesn't work ever. I just got to Tell you, showing you doesn't work. The shadow realm, like everything, its description is literally a physical earth place that looks like a jumbled mess of an example of a physical earth place. I don't know. I got to explain this.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: That is what it is. And we enter, we see distortions, we hear distortions and turning. Or we drove straight. We turn around and we're trying to drive straight out and the exit's gone weird. That sounds like the shadow realm. Now how the f*** would we have entered? Second, it looked absolutely normal to us. So could it have been?

Cristina: It could just be the whole veil example thing of like you're just. You're seeing it, but you're not actually in it. Like they're seeing you and you're. They're not actually there.

Jack: Then the straight line would have gotten us out.

Cristina: There must have been something messing with you as well. Like an actual thing.

Jack: Right. And how is it gonna change the shadow realm structure or our. How is it gonna change the physical space we're in?

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: There's a huge issue right there.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: We go in, yeah, like three blocks in, do a 180, no turns, drive the same path we got there through. See? None of the same s***. And the f****** dirt road's gone.

Cristina: I don't know. Some of them have abilities. Maybe it was messing with you guys.

Jack: And we take hella turns through paradise. When we took no turns, we take mad turns in paradise trying to find our way out. And somewhere in a different corner entirely, we find a dirt road again. And then we find our way out after like 20 minutes of doing circles when we had only gone in a straight line, turned around, tried to do the same straight line back and just dead end, no road. So what was that? I've thought about that following some of this research, and I'm like, man, this.

Cristina: Isn'T match up with anything.

Jack: Doesn't match with anything. This is easily the shadow realm. Minus the fact that it couldn't be. Because how the f***. Unless these descriptions of the shadow realm, we are taking them too literally. And it's not a non physical place. We did see a jumbled mess of something we had just looked at that looked normal.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: We saw the same place jumbled up.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Nothing else changed except we couldn't navigate it. And it seemed bigger after we'd gone in.

Cristina: Soon as you got scared, as soon as the car. As the kid, children and the car.

Jack: As soon as it all. Yes, we fell into something. Right.

Cristina: Fear happened. This really overwhelming fear probably happened at that moment for all.

Jack: From all four of us at the same time.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And then we panic, go on the road, and then we slip in. But then the argument would be, you don't need adrenochrome and Jesus did. There's something wrong here. There's a contradiction still going on.

Cristina: Because I don't think you're really in it, though.

Jack: I don't think so either. So then. Okay, so then what you're talking about might be the logical path that maybe even the judge didn't.

Cristina: Yeah, he saw. He saw a glimpse of it, or they.

Jack: He was literally interacting with people on the other side. And he met Ixchel, which then came out and went to Maya. They were literally something is. But we're onto something now because if we. You're totally right. All of this followed the fear. Let's recount the story. We drive in first. We see the guy in the robe, a black guy essentially walking around in a KKK robe. Weirdest sight ever. Okay. With a machete or a shotgun. Nobody was clear on which one he was holding. Everybody had a different story. We get far enough, we see the deer cut open. Okay. Panic, you know, Everybody like, what the f***? Yeah, we get far enough, we hear the laughter. We try to scare the guys, end up scaring ourselves because we hear the kids. We take the dirt road and suddenly the s*** spins out of control and we're nowhere. But we're everywhere. Because the one road we took disappeared and now we're just in this mess and we can't get out. And then the road showed up somewhere else entirely. Maybe you're right and we're just seeing it because again, it doesn't make sense that they could see us and we can't see them. I think it's a notch where the more you turn it, the more both sides are close together. Not one side to this side.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So we're slowly more and more seeing.

Cristina: But you're not physically there. I'm not physically there seeing.

Jack: Now, in this instance, there is an interesting. This contradiction could then be resolved because when they're talking about the shadow or on being a non physical place, they are talking about getting there non physically through fear, through these other means that allows you to interact with that space without entering that space.

Cristina: Yes. Oh, okay. Yes.

Jack: And then there's a way to actually enter and be in the space which requires totally different means. In this scenario now we can apply the things that we didn't mention about necromancers. What are they really good at? Even if they don't cross. They're good at bridging communication. They're good at bringing things from that side over. They're good at interacting with things on that side, even if they don't go in. So they know how to turn the dial that allows them to f*** with things on that side without being on that side, which I would argue is stronger, more overpowered than having to be on that side. Additionally, if you have a Philosopher's Stone that has the ability to violate those rules, could you, in theory, use the Philosopher's Stone to make a sort of external shell that would allow you to enter without falling apart? Hence their ability to traverse and not be simultaneously. Like a suit made of. Think of Green Lantern puts the ring on and a green energy goes over his body. And now he can manipulate this energy. What if what's happening that's happens with the Philosopher's Stone? And I could use the Philosopher's Stone, create this energy around me, and just slip into the Shadow Realm without needing adrenochrome. Without the energy, I would just die over there or pop up over here, but I can literally be there without consuming adrenochrome. Now, Jesus didn't have Philosopher's stones. He went to acquire them.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Now we have a reason why he needs to die.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Maybe he didn't know how to make it. As overpowered as he is, he went to acquire them. Different.

Cristina: That's so weird that he didn't know how to. Because he knew how to make the Gates. The person who taught him how to make the Gates would know how to make it. Make a philosopher stone. Yeah, well, maybe Jesus wasn't into having to mass murder people.

Jack: Yeah. And he knew these things already exist. Let them kill me and I'll go get the stones, because I'm gonna be fine.

Cristina: Yeah. Mm. He just. He's just different.

Jack: He's just different. He. Look, he. His. Everybody who's ever talked about him said the same thing. He was preaching kindness the whole time. Regardless of what they saw him do or how they saw him do it. A lot of people were like, he did some pretty diabolical looking s***.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: But attached to that, did he hurt anybody? Well, no, he did a bunch of diabolical s***. But he kind of just told us all to be kind to each other.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like fair.

Cristina: He's making an army. And his army aren't being forced to be his army. They're choosing to be his army. Whether it's from the Shadow Realm or it's us humans.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: And you're just, we're on his side. They're on his side.

Jack: I mean, when your argument is be kind and stop anybody who's not, it's like, f***. I mean, yeah, bro. And look, I'll give you powers to do it. Oh, s***. You're gonna give me powers to be kind and stop anybody who's not. That's.

Cristina: The only people he wants to get rid of are the sea people, though. Like, that's clear.

Jack: And like, let's be fair as we've dug in deep into this, like, kind of. Yeah. It makes sense. Look, even if Jehovah's on the side of the people, like, you guys just ultimately only want them alive so you can keep running experiments.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: You're like, don't let the civilization fall apart. We need to kill them for stones.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: You know, so ultimately that puts us back on Lucifer side. Right? Where he's like, give them tech so they could reach us. You're gonna kill them anyways.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Let those that can do it do it.

Cristina: Except that they couldn't.

Jack: Doesn't matter if they're gonna be massacred anyways. To make a stone. Give somebody a chance.

Cristina: Yeah, that's true. Okay.

Jack: This is all right, dude. I understand why the. The Lucifer, Jehovah problem is huge. Because it's, like, flopping back and forth.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: One of these guys is somehow right, or it's so nuanced that they're both right and wrong.

Cristina: Yes. I think that's more the most truthful.

Jack: Because in Jehovah's eyes, they're gonna die anyways, bro. I'm like, let's give them purpose. Let's let them their lives be used to improve the world. While Lucifer's argument is give them the choice. Let them choose what happens if it collapses. It was their choice, not yours.

Cristina: Yes. It's pretty good.

Jack: Like, f***, give them purpose. They're ignorant. Both of them are on point. Give them purpose. They are ignorant and they're gonna self destruct. Don't let them die meaninglessly. You give them this technology. They can't handle it. They will die meaninglessly and haven't gotten nothing. Which we see many relics from civilizations that are kind of Lucifer's fault. But he gave them a chance to make their choice. Jehovah is all about taking that choice.

Cristina: Away because he thinks that's safer.

Jack: He thinks it's better and more noble. Use them for something that they would be proud of. If they looked back. If they looked back a thousand years and thought, oh, I died in this moment, but all of human history improved because of my sacrifice. They would. His logic at least is they'd be happy.

Cristina: And what is Jesus point of view?

Jack: F*** both of them. Both of them. Don't give people technology so that they blow up and kill themselves and don't sacrifice people. Leave them alone.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Which, like, okay, when? That's the third argument. Kind of f*** those two other guys. Yeah, that's legit. We can move slowly. It's fine. We don't need to f****** flash forward a million years instantly and then collapse because we couldn't deal with it. And we don't need some other guy sacrificing us to accomplish the same f****** thing. Yes, maybe f*** both of them and just let people do what they're gonna do if we kill ourselves.

Cristina: At least it was us.

Jack: At least it was us. No interference.

Cristina: Yeah, okay.

Jack: In that argument. Yeah. Jesus.

Cristina: Oh, all right.

Jack: It's a lot of sides and, like, nobody's right or wrong until you put Jesus in the mix. And I was like, well, that m************ are wrong.

Cristina: Yeah, well, yeah, he's pro human, so.

Jack: He'S pro human regardless. Even if the other two are technically pro human. It's a lot like leftists trying to decrease criminal sentences for people who. A black judge gave them a really large sentence and then they go to prison for this really long time. But leftists are like, that's unjust and blah, blah, blah. And then they go ahead and force a different judge to decrease the sentence and the guy gets out of prison and he gets murdered a week later. And then we truly go and talk to the people who understand, not just feel like they're gonna help. Oh, I want to help. I want to help. But you're ignorant. You're stupid. You don't know the situation. We go and talk to somebody on ground level. Well, the judge is families of the gang that's in the prison, and that guy is a neighborhood friend. He increased the sentence so that he goes to that prison specifically and is protected there. He was gonna stay alive in prison. You guys got him out and he got killed. That's Jehovah and Lucifer being helpful leftists.

Cristina: Jehovah and Lucifer or Peter trying to save animals but then killing dogs.

Jack: Yes. The same logic of, you're not being helpful, you're just thinking you're being helpful.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And that's a very leftist ideology. So we can just throw Lucifer and Jehovah in the leftists and say, you're kind of ignorant. You think you're helping, but you're not on the ground level. Knowing what the people want.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: You go to Jesus. Jesus is just asking people. Yeah. He's just like, I know why that guy went to prison on a really high sentence. He asked a judge for it. And you ignorant f**** don't know that Jesus is the guy who knows. He talks to the people. He's like, what do you guys want? Well, we just want to live our lives.

Cristina: He was forced to be with the people.

Jack: Yes. That's. That's literally Jehovah and Lucifer's fault.

Cristina: Yes. Yeah.

Jack: They made the problem that stopped them.

Cristina: Yes. That's really interesting.

Jack: They literally made him in a labor, and then they were like, f*** that guy.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And threw him to the people.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So the people were like, well, he's one of us, and he grew up as one of them. And they treated him right until. Who f***** him? The f****** people working with the Elysians.

Cristina: Oh, yeah.

Jack: The Church came after him, huh? Even more incentive. F*** that. Let's work these a******* into my plan so I can f*** him more.

Cristina: Beautiful.

Jack: LinkedIn. Yeah. Sacrifice me. Totally, man. Kill me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he enters and goes. He took it from Lucifer, bro. Even if these two guys didn't agree, they were still eye to eye on the people. We need them for something. He just used Jehovah and his disdain for Lucifer. Got himself killed to enter, rob Lucifer, and then get back to Earth Realm knowing these two guys aren't gonna work together.

Cristina: No. Yeah, I guess.

Jack: Divide and conquer.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: F****** 3D chess, bro. I mean, 4D chess.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Okay. Weird one. I didn't know this next one originated here. I was looking to see if this came from somewhere else, but this actually comes from the New England era of the United States, which is. The Headless Horseman is a New Jersey Clinton Road thing.

Cristina: Yeah, it is.

Jack: I had no f****** idea that that originated over here.

Cristina: Yeah, it did.

Jack: In fact, I would have thought that this was, like, an Eng type of ghost.

Cristina: There's a lot of ghosts that actually were from around here.

Jack: Yeah. No, we are in weird land.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: We're in a really hot spot.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Weird. New Jersey is legit.

Cristina: It is it. That's why.

Jack: Yeah. No, we are in some crazy hotspot. I had no idea. I thought the Headless Horseman was significantly older and, like, by default had to be some, like, European thing. Yeah, no, that is just a Jersey thing.

Cristina: It's a Jersey thing. Yeah.

Jack: It got taken and showed up in a million places. But, no, that's. That's us. That's a Jersey thing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Now, this is described as a humanoid that looks kind of like a shadow that doesn't seem to have a head in the way we would describe. And he's on something that we would compare to a horse, but doesn't necessarily look like a horse. This tells us a couple of things. It's a jinn of some sort. And he looks kind of human, but he wouldn't look perfectly human. That makes no sense.

Cristina: So it's a creature from somewhere else writing a creature from somewhere else.

Jack: It would be the people of the shadow realm, the gym, and whatever their horse equivalent is.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And based on everything else we know of the area. Now, there's a weird one. He doesn't f*** with people. Doesn't f*** with people. He's just not an echo. He is responsive. And here's the weird thing about this, right? People have yelled at him, and he'll stop and look like, turn his torso.

Cristina: Towards him and just gonna say, like, how.

Jack: You know, just turn and, like, wait. Like, he's just a dude. It seems like just a dude.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And he's like, okay. They, you know, people from the other side saw me. Let's, you know, let them have their moment or whatever. I'll stop here and let them roll by. Oh, they saw ghosts, whatever.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And it's like, it looks like he's not f****** with people. He's not doing it. He's just there and people see him. People have, oh, my God. The headless. And then he just, you know, he'll stop and kind of behaves like a. Like if he's a tourist attraction.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Oh, like, yeah, they're looking at me. Let me stop. And so he's very known for just stopping. He's very known for, like, approaching. But this. These descriptions are where it gets very informative because this falls in line with all the other things we saw of the things that interact. If you look at the truck, if you look at the children, proximity makes them vanish. But in his description, it's something very different. What, he gets close and gets more translucent. Yeah. So, like, really far away. It looks like whatever particles hold him together are denser together. But the closer he gets is like. If you were shrinking and looking at atoms more and more, everything would kind of look more far apart, more far apart. If you were the size of an atom, you wouldn't see two things touching ever. There'd be no body. There's no such thing.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Sort of that same thing. The closer he gets, the more through him. You could see.

Cristina: What does that mean, though?

Jack: I don't know. So when he's maybe 20ft away, he's so hard to make out. But he's there, and you know he's there. It's like closer than that, you know, you can't tell he's there anymore, but he's not. And that's closest. F***. By the way, 20ft is nuts. But. So he's fully aware you're there. And, you know, he. I did it. I tried to find if maybe his voices come from him or if he waves or something, like the kids. Yeah, none of that. But he is fully aware that people come through.

Cristina: You know, just sense that he. He notices you.

Jack: He. Well, people see him, and I guess he would hear them or see them himself. Because if we assume that there's a notch and you see him as much as he sees you, then he's aware. There's one road. There's one road. Anybody who is on the other side and wants to interact with humans, they know where the humans are. They're on the road.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And so it really. These descriptions. Not that anywhere says what I'm saying, that he's behaving like a tourist attraction. But if you were to tell me to describe what's happening, he's behaving like a tourist attraction. He knows all those people entertained, want to be scared or whatever. I'm not gonna scare them too much because there are things out here.

Cristina: But he does like that fear. Probably a little bit.

Jack: Maybe he does cruise by the road. Honest.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Quote horse unquote. But he doesn't mess with people and he doesn't chase people or anything. It just. Maybe he's just interested in humans. And it's like, oh, cool spot where you can see humans. You know, it's possible.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Which would. It totally has to be. I'm thinking the kids. There's no park there. I think the kids just like playing close to the road because they might see humans.

Cristina: Yeah. It might still be the fear thing of like, oh, we're gonna get something out of here, even if we're not gonna try anything. But we just know just being here.

Jack: Just being here, we'll see them, we'll.

Cristina: See them and we'll get something.

Jack: I don't think it's about getting something. I think it's about. Because why they're not getting anything. You use the fear to get to this side to then get adrenochrome. They're not doing anything. They're not getting to the side to hurt People, they're just kind of chilling there. The kids are just chilling there. Yeah, the horseman's just chilling there.

Cristina: And the trucker guy.

Jack: The trucker guy's with people.

Cristina: He's.

Jack: He's looking for something.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: I think that guy was from this side. It's a truck. Yeah, that guy was from this side. And he just doesn't want to lose it. And he's like, I'd rather they lose it than me. But the kids don't have that. They just. Kids and they wave and, you know, hey, cool, whatever.

Cristina: And the horse, man.

Jack: The horseman is the same. He's just, you know, they're cool people.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it's weird, but there are peaceful ghosts here. I'm not even ghosts. They're just gin, man.

Cristina: But he's from that specific area. He's not from somewhere else in New Jersey. He's from Clinton Road.

Jack: Literally, from Clinton Road. It looks like there is on the other side, some civilization.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And it's possible that that civilization is based on paradise, because that's where the jumbled mess began. On the flip side. On the flip side, there have been stories of people going on a straight line. There's nothing but Clinton Road as long as you don't turn.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And somehow leaving how they came in. So it could just somehow turn on you.

Cristina: Clinton Road.

Jack: Clinton Road. People have gone in a straight line 10 miles before you exit back to lights. People have gone in one line.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And found the exit through which they came in.

Cristina: That's right.

Jack: Without ever turning. So fear could be f****** with the surroundings.

Cristina: Okay. There is something just weird, naturally, about.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Clinton Road itself.

Jack: And so because we went to a place with mad turns, even if we didn't take a turn, we multiply the fact that you can go in a straight line and exit the same entrance by the fact that there's like 30 turns in paradise. And now we have a road that could be anywhere.

Cristina: Weird.

Jack: Very strange. Now, this next one is very literal because people describe it as this way, which is shadow people. Everything else they have not described as shadow people. This one, they literally use the word shadow people. Dark, human like figures seen darting between the trees, often in peripheral vision, which. Yes, that's just shadow people.

Cristina: That's great.

Jack: The thing is, this is the most reported sighting of something that seems to be responsive people. Look, they scatter away. I think there's a civilization. I think that that area has. And I think, based on what we're reading right now and what you said, that maybe the experiment isn't even in the future. Maybe it was on the other side.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And it seems like there's a civilization on the other side.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It could just be something that happened, you know, not even that long ago.

Cristina: It just happens over there.

Jack: Just happens over there. Could be. Doesn't have to be in the future. Could just be on the other side. It's folding everything together.

Cristina: Yes. And they just see shadow people.

Jack: Just shadow people casually running around, just living life. Okay. Pine Baron's Devil. Occasional sightings of a creature resembling the Jersey Devil in the denser parts of the forest. And that's very simply a creature from the shadow realm.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Right.

Cristina: But is it the same? They're saying it's like the other one. It's not the same as the Jersey Devil.

Jack: They're saying it's almost identical.

Cristina: It's almost identical.

Jack: It might be the same creature type and, like, be in a different area.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: No, that's the least weird thing here. I think it's just a creature. It's like seeing a wetchange or some s***.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like, oh, my God, it's a demon. It's like. I mean, that's as close as raw. Nicka Run.

Cristina: It's just wild animal somewhere else.

Jack: Like a really wide. It's like if you see a wet shudge, that's like coming across a grizzly bear.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Get those f*** out. No. H*** no. Get the f*** out of there. That s***'ll flip your car, bro. Eyes in the darkness. This is definitely, most likely gin. Again, the glowing eyes. These are just probably. We're seeing light glares on Jinn and we just so happen to be seeing the Djinn simultaneously. My idea is described as glowing eyes watching from the woods at night.

Cristina: That's pretty creepy. But yeah. Yeah.

Jack: If it's just being observed and you're seeing through the thin veil and they're looking at you.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Unseen forces which are. Again, feeling like one is being pushed or pulled. And that's. That could just easily be things coming through, walking by. And like in parts where the veil is thin but still not perfectly gone so that you can like, oh, wow, something just pushed me to the side. Oh, my God. There's something out here messing. And they're just walking by, but they don't see you. You don't see them, and you just touch and you're like, what the was that?

Cristina: I think that's. That's a good thing.

Jack: And it's actually one of the most described things happening. And it always happens on the main road. Anybody Gets out of their vehicle for any reason, they're usually like, what the.

Cristina: You didn't go out on the main road?

Jack: Yes, I didn't feel as though.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: We got out of the car. I got out of the car to look at the deer. I got out of the car to see why the car wasn't turning on. And I got out of the weeds. I just don't give a. If I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die. It is what it is.

Cristina: But you didn't see any eyes, though.

Jack: I didn't see any eyes. I saw the deer, the black guy in the KKK outfit. I saw the. I heard the children separate to the laughter. That wasn't necessarily children.

Cristina: Yeah, but you didn't see whatever.

Jack: No, I didn't see eyes, didn't see shadows or any of that stuff.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But the weird moving roads and changing turns, that's pretty strange. And the fact that all of us saw that is weird. Minus Nunez, because from Nunez point of view, it was. We were just sitting and he just saw all of us go catatonic for a moment, which is. His story is worse than all of our stories. Yes, we all experience being somewhere, but now we have to unpack this because he says we pull over and we never get. We. He never saw the dirt road. He never saw paradise. We pull over, the car doesn't turn on. And from his point of view, all of us just sat there and thought really hard about what to do for a while. From our point of view, while that was happening, how the f*** do we get out of this mess we're in? Meanwhile, he's the only quiet one with us. We're just thinking, you know, nuna doesn't fear things. He's a special kind of person. He doesn't feel fear the way we do. So, you know, he's just quiet, watching us scramble.

Cristina: I don't know. That changes everything.

Jack: That changes everything because this falls into what you were saying about the judge. Did the judges go unconscious somewhere and his. Some other thing was in the shadow realm? Yes, because he says, we were just frozen in place, thinking. We say, bro, we were lost for like 30 minutes, homie. What do you mean you saw nothing? The three of us versus the one of you, bro, this is a different argument you're having.

Cristina: But is he right?

Jack: But is he right?

Cristina: I don't know. That's. That's really good. I don't know. That's so strange. That's just so out there. I don't know.

Jack: It's f****** Weird, bro. It's really strange. I don't know what to. There's a lot of complications here.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Here is something that I believe is the veil thinning, which is melting trees that appear to melt or distort adding to the surreal landscape. I think this is just sort of the warped nature of the shadow realm being seen on this side. I think that's just areas where the notch is way turned up and we're just seeing what that side looks like.

Cristina: That's pretty cool.

Jack: My note for that was just likely trees in the shadow realm different than the wandering shadows in the forest. There are eerie shadows that move independent of sound, independent of structure, and independent of physical motion. This is strange because what they mean by independent of normal physical motion is they can go vertically and horizontally but in a walking human fashion.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Weird.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like they'll just be walking and sort of like walking up into the sky suddenly.

Cristina: Because they're probably going up a building or something.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: We just can't see it.

Jack: We don't see the building. We see the shadow.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Because they're the living thing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So we don't see the structure.

Cristina: Kind of makes sense. Yeah.

Jack: Wow.

Cristina: It's weird. It would be weird to see, but it might make sense over there.

Jack: Yes. Informed enough. It's not disturbing to us because it seems like. Yeah, there's probably a structure there that we can't interact with. And it's just going up some stairs or something.

Cristina: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not that crazy. Okay.

Jack: Which then goes and supports again that there's buildings here.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Which supports that there's a civilization in around Clinton Road. Shifting paths. Which is the problem we faced.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And that is the literal story I was getting to about people going in a straight line and then exiting directly where they came straight through. That's shifting paths.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Us entering Paradise Road. Paradise Road disappearing behind us. And us just being in Paradise Town and not finding the road horrifying. Until it's suddenly just, hey, it's somewhere else apparently. Let's exit. And somehow it still took us to Clinton Road back. It's like this was. We didn't take any turns. We took a turn to get here now. And it still took us to the same place. What the f***?

Cristina: Yeah. I don't know. Yeah.

Jack: Mysterious footprints.

Cristina: What does that mean?

Jack: Footprints that just begin and stop in the middle of a trail without a beginning point or an ending point. I think this just falls into more shadow realm stuff.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Maybe this is a spot where the notch is particularly turned up and we can start to see them literally affecting our physical space. And then they get. Get far from whatever's causing that anomaly. And then we no longer see the footprints. They kept walking on their side, didn't just disappear on their end, but the veil is thinner, is more tight elsewhere. And it's thinner in this spot.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So that's my theory for that.

Cristina: I think so. It's not that crazy.

Jack: I think this next one falls a lot with the kids, which is ghostly campers which seem to be around the road. These people just hanging around the road, camping. You oftentimes even see tents. Apparitions in campers setting up tents around fires near the road. But they don't look human.

Cristina: They don't look human.

Jack: They look like shadows. Even with light present weird. And proximity. When somebody goes to see these campers, they aren't there anymore. Even with the fire burning. You get closer and the fire itself starts to dim, dim, dim until there's nothing camping. I think they're camping by the sea. I think they're being just as much as we're on this side. Oh, Clinton Road. This attraction, Horseman's Traveling. The kids are chilling there because it's entertaining and fun. People are camping by this road.

Cristina: Yes. I wonder if they see ghosts like we see echoes. Like, it's still an interesting spot to hunt for echoes or find echoes to them.

Jack: Maybe they're finding the same thing. Yeah. Distortions from their path.

Cristina: Yeah. Like they think that's as cool as we find it cool. And that's why we go there.

Jack: 100. It could totally 1000% be based on these comparisons. There are people just chilling here, trying to see the same things we're doing.

Cristina: Yeah. So, yeah. It's probably even weirder. Whatever they're seeing is probably even weirder than what we're saying.

Jack: I mean, maybe not for them. Maybe like, you know, we hear about ghosts and, oh, my God, this place is haunted. And we see an old guy pushing a wheelbarrow and it's like, all right, well, they see a wet shud, John. A loop. And it's like, to us, I would look nuts. But to them it's just like, oh, yeah, the echo of the wolf. You know, the wolf died.

Cristina: Entertaining enough for them to want to hang out in that spot, though.

Jack: Yeah. They're trying to get themselves scared.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And like, oh, wow. Cool.

Cristina: Yeah. Yeah.

Jack: It feels. It really, really just feels like they're people, bro. Like they're really gin. Even in text. Seem to just be people.

Cristina: I think so over there. Yes.

Jack: They're not bad people. There are bad people. There are some who are bad, but we got humans who are bad.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: You know? Yes. There's a dude in a truck also. I would argue that guy's just a human on that side.

Cristina: Possibly.

Jack: Yeah. The truck part kind of makes that argument pretty strong.

Cristina: Yeah, I think so.

Jack: Yeah, exactly like the truck. They're not building trucks over there, bro. Come on. And then the final note on this is the floating lanterns, which again supports this again of. They're usually by the road in the woods.

Cristina: They're just hanging out.

Jack: Just hanging out, bro. They're chilling, they're seeing, they're doing what we're doing. Except they don't have cars. That's it. They're just doing what we're doing.

Cristina: Yeah, that's just them hanging out, I think. Yeah. There's weird stuff happening over there. Like over here. Yes. And so it's an attraction to them too.

Jack: Now, a random point to toss in about my personal experience with, with the guy in the robe. I thought he had a machete, not a shotgun. And what we saw was a deer open. If that deer was horrified enough. And this guy knew what he was doing. He was trying to get to the other side, wasn't he? He was by himself trying to get.

Cristina: To the other side and he just killed some s***.

Jack: And he opened it. He wasn't covered in blood. It was just opened. Yeah, this guy probably took some organs out, Ambros. Just spitballing. I don't know. But you're in the right place.

Cristina: You're in the right place for sure.

Jack: You're in the right place. If ever there was a maybe you're just trying to communicate. We know that the Vikings did that. They consumed a crap ton until they started hearing voices. And then those voices started guiding them and they turned it into a place that they could just casually walk there and interact with, quote the gods, unquote. Yes, the gods knew where to go and they knew where to go to just effortlessly interact with one another. Which, by the way, in theory, we could still do that today. We would just require killing a s*** ton of people.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But in theory, we could have a perfect, in sync, one to one communication with the other side. And I think we don't need to make it. I think maybe that exists somewhere in Clinton Road already and that somebody might know it. You know where I think it is, and I think we all think it's in the same f****** place. It's in the castle.

Cristina: Okay. Are we gonna get to the Castle.

Jack: We're gonna get to that castle.

Cristina: Okay, cool.

Jack: Yeah. The next part is about three times as long as these two parts and is the one I called significant. These are the things that are obviously something to look at. Everything else we talked about in this episode and last episode. Interesting.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And for last episode. Yeah, for last episode was definitely the most important because we got things to look at. For this side, there's less to look at, although there's still some things to look at. Mainly not things here. But what this made us think of. Yes, next time, I believe 100% of that we have to look at, but we'll get to that. Anyways, as usual, if you guys have any input, any additional information or anything you could think about, feel free to contact us about it.

Cristina: Tell us.

Jack: You can tell us on our socials. That's on TikTok, on Instagram, on Facebook, on X, anywhere. Anywhere, Anywhere. At just Convopod. Yeah, we got kicked out of YouTube and Reddit. Just Convopod.

Cristina: Remember to subscribe, rate and review the show.

Jack: Yes. And word of mouth is the most overpowered thing in the world. If you find what we are talking about interesting and you want to show somebody else what this is, feel free to do so because we will appreciate it.

Cristina: This has been the Rambling podcast. Take nothing personal. Thanks for listening. Bye.

Jack: Sam.

Cristina: The podcast is hosted by Christina Colazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by Great Thoughts info, art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McAllister with social media managed by Amber Black.

Rambling 277: The Winchester House

Who was Sarah Lockwood? What is the Winchester House? And what purpose does any of this serve? The duo go back to investigating individual cases and crack open the case of the Winchester House. A mysterious and strange mansion with odd circumstances surrounding it. The discovery made turns out to be more relevant than could have ever been anticipated!!

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed:

  • Sarah Lockwood
  • Geometric Patterns
  • Mazes
  • William Winchester
  • The Seance Room

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod

Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod

Instagram - https://instagram.com/justconvopod


+Transcript

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And this is the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas. How have you been?

Cristina: Hot.

Jack: It's been hot. You know, the Earth has been hotter. Hotter than usual. Too Hot. It's been painfully hot, I would say.

Cristina: Painfully hot.

Jack: Yeah. It's been global warming, except not because it's climate change. And some places are technically colder. Okay, so rephrasing it to climate change. We're changing the climate. Except we're not, because the climate is always changing. This has nothing to do with anything. I am just ranting. All right, anyways, so I have some images for you to look at, and I want you to just describe what you're seeing in these images, okay?

Cristina: Really?

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: This is just how we're going to start it.

Jack: This is just how we're going to start it. I want you to look at some image of cosas.

Cristina: If I don't know what I'm looking.

Jack: At, that's totally fine. Go ahead and describe to everybody what you're looking at.

Cristina: A big house.

Jack: Describe this big house.

Cristina: It kind of looks like a puzzle type of house because it's all over the place.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: So just boxes here and there. Look at that one down there. Unless. Is that a car? No, that's a house.

Jack: No, this is. That's a room. Yeah. No, this is big. You're looking at something here.

Cristina: It looks like there's a maze in the house. Is it the Resident Evil mansion?

Jack: Interesting. Okay, what else do you see? Point other things out.

Cristina: Palm trees. Are those palm trees? I think that's what palm trees look like.

Jack: Yeah, that's a type of palm tree, for sure.

Cristina: The house is yellow with red. Red tops.

Jack: Okay.

Cristina: I guess. Except some of them are flat. I don't know. It looks like multiple buildings that are just connected to each other with littler buildings.

Jack: Okay, interesting. Interesting, yes.

Cristina: Something like. I don't know, what's the original house there? And maybe like it was just one house, and then they just added onto it over the years.

Jack: Fascinating. Okay. Okay, keep talking. I like where you're going with this.

Cristina: They have a huge. I don't know, it looks. It's huge. It's huge.

Jack: It is f****** huge. But I think you could also probably identify the original house in there.

Cristina: You think so?

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Is it the first. The little first section? You'd guess it would be that.

Jack: The bigger first section, right?

Cristina: Yeah, yeah. Although, like, that looks like a complete house right back there. Like, there's the first. The second one. You see that little box there?

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: That looks like added on stuff, but all the way back there. Looks like a mansion itself.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cristina: But. But it's connected though.

Jack: So. Good guess. Is actually this part and that part that were original.

Cristina: Oh, okay. What?

Jack: That's really on the nose. We'll scroll down to the next one, which is actually a different angle of it.

Cristina: Oh, my gosh. It's a bigger mess than you can see. Oh, my gosh.

Jack: The original.

Cristina: That's the original.

Jack: And you can see the back house.

Cristina: Oh, what is this, though? It's huge. It's like five blocks, eight blocks.

Jack: What is it huge? It is one of the largest mansions in the world.

Cristina: Where is it?

Jack: We'll get to that.

Cristina: It has palm trees, but then it has regular trees behind it. So the palm trees were taken there. Like it's not a natural palm tree or. It is.

Jack: No. Oh, okay. Yeah. Wow. Okay. On point. On point. Yes, it is.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Interesting, interesting. Okay, now let's take a look inside. What do you see here? Huh?

Cristina: I don't know. We're looking at a basement. I don't know.

Jack: Right, right. Tell me more about the stairs.

Cristina: Is there something off with the stairs? I don't know.

Jack: You don't see something off about the stairs?

Cristina: I'm not sure. It's the. What's above the stairs? Looks odd. Like we're not. I don't know. No, I don't know. Because that's just doors in the bottom. Right?

Jack: In the bottom?

Cristina: Yeah. Is that not the bottom? The top of the picture is the bottom of the stairs?

Jack: No, that's the top of the stairs.

Cristina: That's the top of the stairs.

Jack: Yeah. You can see because this is a little lift at the bottom of the stairs with the shadow underneath it. Oh.

Cristina: Because it looks like.

Jack: Yeah, no, you're right.

Cristina: It looks weird. It looks like a door. Like you're entering the room.

Jack: Yeah, it looks like a staircase going into a door. But that's the ceiling.

Cristina: That's the ceiling.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: But then how would you. So it's just a hole up there.

Jack: That's not even a door. It just looks like a door.

Cristina: It just looks like a door.

Jack: Yeah, the staircase goes nowhere. That staircase literally has no direction.

Cristina: What is it up there that we're looking at?

Jack: A ceiling.

Cristina: What?

Jack: Designed to look like a door. This is a ceiling.

Cristina: Why?

Jack: Okay, here is another Image. What do you see?

Cristina: Another stairs. We're in a. This is some kind of maze. This has to be some kind of maze. I don't understand.

Jack: What are you looking at?

Cristina: It says exit and the stairs. And the stairs are going up to like nothing or a teeny tiny room. I don't know. Is it a tiny room up there?

Jack: Right. And once before the stairs going up.

Cristina: More stairs going up but the other direction.

Jack: So stairs going down.

Cristina: Oh, that stairs going down.

Jack: See, it's going down, its stairs going down, then stairs going up.

Cristina: Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess.

Jack: Yeah, that stairs going down, then up again.

Cristina: RV And I don't understand why is there so many stairs? Because it looks like other stairs going up right in the corner. Yeah.

Jack: Stairs up, up and then stairs down. Not sure why.

Cristina: Why? And then is there anything else happening there? I don't know. Is that a window? That's a window, yeah.

Jack: Last one. What do you see in this one?

Cristina: I see a room that's has nothing in it. It has a window that's way small and long. A closet that looks.

Jack: That's not a window, that's a door.

Cristina: Window that up there, that's a window.

Jack: What up. We're here.

Cristina: Yeah, I'm not talking about the door yet.

Jack: No, it's not a window either. Or I guess. Oh, fair enough. Yes, that's a window. That's a window into another room.

Cristina: Oh my gosh. Because. Okay. And the door that's open looks like there's another door behind it. But also it's super high up from the floor.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Like it would be really annoying to get out of the room. And the room is empty for some reason.

Jack: Yes. What else?

Cristina: I'm not sure. Hangers on the wall and I don't know. The closet looks like a normal closet. I don't know. Plus that's just another door to another room.

Jack: An average everyday closet.

Cristina: Yeah, maybe.

Jack: Okay, describe to me what you've just seen. Put it all together in your mind. What's going on?

Cristina: It's. I don't know, someone with too much money and too much time making a maze. It looks like an indoor maze. It looks like Willy Wonka's mansion. It looks like, I don't know, Hogwarts. I don't know what's happening.

Jack: I'm gonna go into more detail. So you saw a maze. How was the maze built? Where does the maze come from? What can you extrapolate just by looking at it?

Cristina: Does it come from now where does it come from?

Jack: Fair enough. But like what what is fresh in your memory about what you just saw? What points stand out? If you were to summarize, having looked at these images, what are your bullet points?

Cristina: Okay. Besides that. It's some type of maze. It was made over time.

Jack: It was made over time because of.

Cristina: All the new parts to it.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Has made it more complicated. Which is probably why there's some stairs that go to no thing and some that go to, I don't know.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: Then there's. There's a lot upstairs going nowhere. And for some reason, that one, that last room with a really high upstair step to get out of it. Like why?

Jack: Why Fact.

Cristina: Does someone actually live there? I don't feel like. Like you. There's too much money that you have to be living there.

Jack: Somebody doesn't live there anymore.

Cristina: They were living in there.

Jack: They were living in.

Cristina: Making this mess.

Jack: Yes. So let me begin telling you about what you just saw.

Cristina: Good. What?

Jack: We'll begin at part one. The widow. So let me tell you about this widow Rich.

Cristina: Widow Rich.

Jack: A widow. Her name is Sarah. She goes by Sally. Her last name is Lockwood. And Sarah Lockwood was named after her grandma, you know.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Is that important?

Jack: I'm telling you about Sarah.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Anything I tell you matters because I'm telling you. So eat it. Whether or not you think it matters, because I don't care if you think it matters.

Cristina: It does matter though.

Jack: It's information.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: About Sarah.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Lockwood.

Cristina: All right.

Jack: Yeah. And Sarah Lockwood was a widow. Sarah Lockwood became a widow eventually because of the situation that happened. Sarah was born in 1839 in New Haven, Connecticut. The Old west, you know, the American Old West. And Sarah married when she was 62 years. That's not 62 years. Crazy. She was in her 30s. 1862 is what I meant to say. How old was she too? I don't know. Let's find out. She was born in 1839 and she got married in 1862. So she was 30? No, she was 20. What?

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: She got married at 21. She gave birth to a still, but not a stillborn daughter, but a daughter that died within a year because the life expectancy of the time at that point. Okay, so she had a baby and her baby didn't make it. Sarah's baby had died. And it haunts her because it haunts her psyche because she's traumatized. Question mark.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And so her husband had done died. He dropped dead. I guess I should be doing this with a western accent because I'm talking about the old West.

Cristina: How long after the baby?

Jack: I don't know necessarily when she had that baby to begin with. That's just more of a detail about her life. Telling you about Sarah, telling you details.

Cristina: About what was her job. Tell me about something about her, though.

Jack: I'm telling you things about her. Just let me keep revealing things. I told you the details that seem to be relevant to some degree.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And Sarah, she, like I told you, been done married. And eventually her husband died. And her husband died in 1881. It wasn't good times for Sarah when he died. Her husband. What the h*** was her husband's name? I done forgot her husband's name. Oh, his name was William.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: She was married to a saw William. He wasn't a sir. I'm just saying that because I was cool and fancy. Yeah, he was a Mr. William. Why the did we adopt sirness here in the United States of America?

Cristina: What was his last name?

Jack: His last name is the right question. Finally. His last name is. It's interesting because I figured you would ask his last name. I don't know why I thought you would ask specifically his last name, but I know you would. It's Winchester. His last name is Winchester. Which makes Sarah Lockwood's second last name and thus her entire full name. Sarah Lockwood Winchester. And as you know, the Winchester name has some interesting ideas behind it that have been exploited over time.

Cristina: Gun. There's a gun, right?

Jack: There is a Winchester gun. Yeah, there are. It's a revolver. A Winchester.45 Magnum revolver. The best.45 Magnum revolver.

Cristina: Does that somehow relate to the guy? He is his family. Just his family.

Jack: So this is part of the era where people were named after what they did for a living. And Winchester was the name of the company he worked for. He got his name for working for the Winchester Repeating Arms Company.

Cristina: Oh, okay. And what do they do?

Jack: They sell repeating rifles.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: It's the Winchester Repeating Arms Company. I don't know what more specific they tried really to be super absurdly specific with that. Winchester, which is the name of the people. Assuming there was a guy actually named Winchester that's unrelated to this new guy named Winchester because of how norms work back then. No, he's one of them Winchester boys. And that really just meant you worked for the Winchester Company. Okay, now Winchester boys last name. But back then it wasn't. And yeah, so he worked for that place.

Cristina: Did he die from a Winchester gun? How did he die?

Jack: Who cares? He died. He died anyways. When he died, he left his widow, Sarah, with quite the fortune. A lot. A lot of money. So much money. Because he had a pretty big chunk of that company. Was there a while. He's one of the original founders money.

Cristina: So then he wasn't named because of what he does.

Jack: No, he wasn't. He was. He was. He wasn't one of the original founders. I have no idea. He was some guy in the company. But he had a lot of money. And no, he wasn't an original founder's lie.

Cristina: Okay?

Jack: And he gave her all that money when he died. And so now Sarah Lockwood Winchester is loaded and she gets arthritis.

Cristina: She joins the call.

Jack: And when she gets arthritis, she goes to her doctor. That's how she knows she's got arthritis. You're developing arthritis. You're becoming an old hang. And she was like, yeah, I'm in my 40s. I'm almost dead.

Cristina: She hasn't had any more children.

Jack: No, she's a widow. You don't do that. You stay widow and sad forever. That's your job.

Cristina: I mean, but like, they only tried once.

Jack: Yeah. And then failed. So she is a failure. In her womb is barren and she's a owl. Because that's how it works. It's them times. Except he died and now she's a rich barren.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: You know, she's still a barren, but a lot of money landed on her lap. So she could be a rich baron b****.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Although she was probably totally fine having the kid, but, you know, also child. But she didn't not. She wasn't barren.

Cristina: So she never has children that could.

Jack: Die after she gave.

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: She wasn't bad.

Cristina: Like it's possible that she could have had.

Jack: Probably treating her like she was barren. Anyways. Her kid.

Cristina: Okay, so she garbage has no children.

Jack: She has no children.

Cristina: Does she adopt children?

Jack: She does not. Why does it matter?

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: Why are you asking about her children? What do her children matter to you?

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: I told you. She had a kid and her kid died.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Why does she need more kids?

Cristina: How does that relate to any.

Jack: She has a dead baby. How does any of this relate to each other?

Cristina: Yes, exactly.

Jack: And so now she got arthritis. She got arthritis. And the doctor is like, you got arthritis? And she's like, dang.

Cristina: She has so much money. She gets a new hand.

Jack: She gets a new hand. So the doctor is then like, look, man, you're out here living in New Haven, Connecticut, you stupid barren. You could go somewhere where the weather isn't so cold and frigid like you, you stupid, barren.

Cristina: So tell her to go to Californ.

Jack: Yeah. They basically say, go somewhere warm so that arthritis doesn't make your fingers represent your soul because you're a stupid barren b****.

Cristina: Did it help her?

Jack: I have no clue. But she does decide at the. At the warm young age. 80s of 42.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: So then go.

Cristina: I mean, I guess that's still pretty old back then.

Jack: Yeah. And then she goes. She decides that she's gonna go in in 1885.

Cristina: She buys a mansion.

Jack: She goes and she. She goes to California and she brings her three remaining sisters. She had more, but they dead because life expectancy in the 1800s isn't fun.

Cristina: And do they have children or are they, well, parents?

Jack: They don't have children yet.

Cristina: Oh, I don't know. Is that important? Okay.

Jack: I don't know. Now, you know what? You've. You've been asking questions. I gave you answers.

Cristina: How old are they?

Jack: Younger than her. Okay, now that's. That's. That's Sarah.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Told you some details about Sarah.

Cristina: About Sarah, though.

Jack: Now we're gonna go back to what you saw. I told you about Sarah.

Cristina: Yeah. Okay.

Jack: Part two. The house.

Cristina: It's haunted. I don't know.

Jack: This house is located in what state?

Cristina: Cali.

Jack: Cali. This house belonged to a man named John Hamm. It's funny that this guy's named John Hamm because there's a photo of a man from the 1800s who looks identical to John Hamm that people say John Hamm is a vampire because of this reason.

Cristina: Okay. But this is not that photo that you're talking about.

Jack: No. I would be very confused. This is also that man.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: There's no photo of this Jon Hamm. There's nothing on this John Ham.

Cristina: Okay. This Jon Hamm owns the house.

Jack: He owns a house.

Cristina: He's still alive at this point, I.

Jack: Guess, where he owns. I mean, now.

Cristina: I mean, when they went there to get the house with him.

Jack: Yeah, yeah. He was alive. He sold them the house.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Jon Hamm had a villa with a back house.

Cristina: Okay. And that's what they got.

Jack: That's what they got. They bought a villa with the back house.

Cristina: Interesting.

Jack: That's great. It's a guest house. And there were three, four of them now because her and her three sisters or whatever.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And now let me tell you about some interesting details about this house. So it's on 40. What was it? 440 acres or some s*** like that Ridiculous land.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: As you saw in the image.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Which Was mostly empty, as you saw by the main two buildings. It's a lot of land, a lot of empty. There were actually forests going through there.

Cristina: Like, how long would it take for the main house to travel to the back house?

Jack: Oh, man. I mean, you saw. Yeah, it was a pretty thick. Like a forest was pretty thick. You were looking at like a minute and a half walk in a straight line from one end to the other. If this is a house with walls and turns, it could take you 5, 10 minutes to traverse one end to the house of the other in a non stop stride in your own house. I'll be there in 10 minutes.

Cristina: Yeah, well, that's too much.

Jack: Yeah, but it didn't begin like that. Again, it was a H, the house. You saw the big chunk, which must have had like what, seven rooms? She was filthy rich. She got her husband's whole estate. Why not? And the back house. So other people came.

Cristina: Which is still a pretty big house. That's a pretty big back house and house. Not including everything that was added.

Jack: Yes, to it.

Cristina: It's what was added just makes no sense. And I don't understand.

Jack: While living at this house, there were a couple of instances that have been left on public record about Sarah's interactions. Sarah Winchester, the widow of William Winchester, who worked for the Winchester Repeating Arms Company.

Cristina: Yes. Yes.

Jack: There have been actual notices of this.

Cristina: Lady in weirdo public records.

Jack: Not her being a weird. Well, fair enough. Possibly. It depends. Depends what you interpret of her being a weirdo. First, there were a couple of calls to the authority, to the authorities of the area about the house, saying there's an intruder on the premises.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: This happened over and over and over where one of these ladies would run all the way to the authorities to.

Cristina: Say that there's someone at their house.

Jack: Tell them that there's somebody intruding on their property and has been lurking in their property.

Cristina: Is it John Ham?

Jack: It is not John Ham.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: It'd be weird if it was. John the vampire. John Ham sells people the house and reclaims it through drinking their blood.

Cristina: Yes. Interesting. No, that's not it. Okay.

Jack: No. And in the time, the exact record claims that there was a man with the wheelbarrow pushing something through the property.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: This happened more than 20 different occasions. Guy with a guy with a wheelbarrow on their property. Always taking something in the same direction.

Cristina: It's a ghost.

Jack: They're too scared to go over there and look.

Cristina: It's a ghost.

Jack: Why is it a ghost?

Cristina: It's. He's doing the Same exact thing.

Jack: It's an echo, right? It's an actual ghost?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It's not like a jinn or like a spirit? No, it's a ghost. An echo ghost of something that happened.

Cristina: In the past, repeating itself over and over. Yeah. Is that what you think too?

Jack: I am also thinking the same thing. I think that man is an echo.

Cristina: Is there more echoes, I guess in the house or around the house?

Jack: This is now where you've asked the most important question. Because this episode is a question of what is in this house. Because I think summer ghosts, echoes of a previous time or future time, ripples as we've established in the past, make sense with math, makes it to quantum physics, most of philosophy. And how we think of an echo in general and what we think of a ghost. So an echo and a ghost are in theory the same, except a ripple through time. Us seeing a moment.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Okay. There are instances which seem to be identical and repeating and continuous. Like the man with the wheelbarrow.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: There are instances that seem fully aware happening in this house. I am going to move into the future now and tell you about this house, current day, without further context so that you know how deep it's about to get. This house is current day a tourist attraction. People go to this house because of how f***** this house is.

Cristina: So it has nothing to do with the size of the house. Pretty crazy.

Jack: All of the above.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: It's not this or that. It's this and that.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: It's all of the above. The house is a current day tourist attraction. It's called Winchester House. And the house brings in money purely based on the cryptic nature of its design and the fact that people, when they go there, do come across the echoes that seem to exist. What's in the public record and what's in the current day? Echoes only share the echoes. The current day events do not share anything that doesn't fit a description we would call an echo. But they do have other instances that people would have called ghosts back then.

Cristina: Like what?

Jack: We're going to get to that.

Cristina: But okay, okay.

Jack: That is an important distinction to be made there.

Cristina: Ghosts versus echoes.

Jack: They're definitely ghosts. Which brings up what can cause the ripples in. Because this is a different problem. Right. We're talking space, time, we're talking science. We know that in New Jersey there is the place Paradise Falls and Clemson Road by Clinton Road. And that area.

Cristina: It's weird.

Jack: Yes. But what causes an area like that to happen? We know that there's even thin places there.

Cristina: Yeah. There's just a lot of crap happening there.

Jack: Yes, but this is a space time phenomenon, isn't it? Yes, like a fold in space or something that's allowing things from many, specifically in Clinton Road is excessive. It's things from many different times. The future in the past kind of intersecting here. It's the. The hills. What is it? The tall fields in the tall grass.

Cristina: Oh yeah.

Jack: We're like the future. The past, the present, the now is all one.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And so you see impossibly ancient looking things and anomalous things. So futuristic. They might be magic.

Cristina: All happening aliens, but it might not be at all.

Jack: Yeah, because we're saying what, demons, ghosts and aliens all exist in the same place? Get the f*** out of here.

Cristina: No, that's weird.

Jack: No, it's weird.

Cristina: That's what's happening in this house.

Jack: So let's dive deeper into the house. I'll tell you some things that happen with the structure of the house.

Cristina: Yes, that's really. I'm mostly dying to know why.

Jack: There is a 44 staircase that only goes up 10ft inside of this house.

Cristina: What's going on?

Jack: Why it continues at a tiny, super gradual slope. Super gradual. Mad stairs. Mad stairs. Mad stairs. Mad stairs to only go up 10ft.

Cristina: Who did this? Was it her? Is she part of this? Or this is someone else?

Jack: There are stained glass windows hanging inside of rooms, not in walls. Many stained glass windows, many, an absurd amount, have spiderweb designs.

Cristina: Spiderweb designs.

Jack: Many windows have Shakespeare quotes.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: There are many doors that open to a dead end wall.

Cristina: Weird.

Jack: There are many doors that open to another door.

Cristina: Okay, I think we saw a little bit of that.

Jack: There are many doors that open to a dead end hallway. There are many doors that lead through mazing hallways that go nowhere.

Cristina: Why?

Jack: There are hidden passages hidden beneath almost all the walls.

Cristina: That's weird.

Jack: And they don't connect to each other directly. Some connect to some, some don't.

Cristina: That's awful. Who will do this?

Jack: There are hidden passages underneath the floorboards.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Some floors have windows in them.

Cristina: Why?

Jack: There are many chimneys in this house.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Kind of makes sense considering its size.

Cristina: Yeah, it's humongous. And find out there's only one door.

Jack: In what the number 13 shows up over and over and over and over. Many, most. Almost all staircases within this size range have about 13 steps. If it could be 9, if it could be 10, if it could be 11, if it could be 14, 15 or 16. It's usually 13 at different sizes.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Stained glass windows constructed almost Majority. And his house is surrounded by stained glass windows of 13 panes.

Cristina: You have any of these as photos though, of the stainless stained glass windows? Stained glass windows. That'd be cool to look at. Are you weird?

Jack: There's a bunch of weird s*** going on here.

Cristina: It's not sounds weird.

Jack: It's not weird. These are things you would only notice by looking at detail. We're talking numbers, we're talking shape shapes. You see webs in places. You see odd shapes. You see the panels are made of add up to 13.

Cristina: That's pretty nice, actually. Not weird.

Jack: It's not weird. There's. The ceilings are made of wood and they have these patterns happening that you find.

Cristina: That was a movie.

Jack: It's not. Oh, there are. This is a weird staircase right here.

Cristina: That is a weird staircase.

Jack: So that's going nowhere.

Cristina: Oh, the 44 stairs. Okay.

Jack: Yeah. Many staircases that go nowhere. Rooms that are complete solid colors.

Cristina: And you're saying nothing's based on this? Because I saw a movie and it looks like they based this weird house, their house. On this weird house, though.

Jack: A man's house?

Cristina: Yeah. No, I don't know. I don't know. It just gives me.

Jack: What's the name of it?

Cristina: Thirteen Ghosts, I think. Was it something like that?

Jack: Oh, I don't know. Maybe.

Cristina: Oh, just. Okay, we'll continue. So does this have to do with her, though, or this is someone else that came after?

Jack: What do you mean?

Cristina: Everything that we're seeing have to do with who? Sarah.

Jack: Oh, well, yeah, because Sarah bought this house.

Cristina: But it wasn't like that when she bought it.

Jack: No, it wasn't.

Cristina: So does she turn into that? Is it unrelated to her?

Jack: Let me scroll down and get to that.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Since you need to know at this.

Cristina: Moment, I'm just curious. It's really hard to picture.

Jack: This is in the points section to take. There are records of Sarah having hired multiple contractors to renovate the property at different points. The original intention was to add parts to the house in the form of additional rooms connecting through hallways as if.

Cristina: It wasn't big enough. That's so crazy. But okay.

Jack: Every time she would break off the contract and continue on her own.

Cristina: Okay, okay. So she is out of her mind. Maybe.

Jack: Eventually she began to create her own designs in the house where her sister.

Cristina: Still living with her at this time.

Jack: Yes. She was maintaining her entire family and their children.

Cristina: Oh, that's crazy.

Jack: She began to implement the designs herself. And eventually. This is on record. She was approached. This is actually on the newspaper. She was approached by contractor offering assistance and was rejected when he offered free services to fix her. Increasingly, by his opinion, worst house.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: So, yes, she built this. Now, going back to the things in this house.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: The walls have 13 panes on average. When you look at the walls and architecture showed influences from around the world with a total lack of consistency, which is what you noticed. It looked like different buildings from different time periods and different locations from around the world. Because it was.

Cristina: That's very crazy. Okay.

Jack: Mm. The inside of the house is structured much like a maze.

Cristina: Okay. Yeah.

Jack: The house itself is designed over a series of geometric shapes.

Cristina: Why?

Jack: All the lines intersect in geometric patterns. All the lines from the top view, it does not represent what an X ray of the place would show us, which would be where a wall looks awkward in our eyes is a straight line connecting a perfect shape elsewhere.

Cristina: Weird.

Jack: Yeah. How. How'd she map it?

Cristina: And why is she doing it?

Jack: And why? That is the question. Why? What's the point of any of this?

Cristina: Yes. And why couldn't any of her family stop her? I understand she's paying.

Jack: She's paying all of it. Additionally, the house features in random parts of design, triangles, circles, and squares that could be found throughout the entire structure, oftentimes as simple details added to something. It doesn't seem like it serves a purpose. It's just aesthetic. It would seem.

Cristina: This seems like too much money. From what? Like, man? How much? Like. No, I don't know.

Jack: There is.

Cristina: I feel like it's adding up.

Jack: Also an additional room in the very, very, very center of the entire structure, which is equal distances from the main house and the back house and both ends of the absolute property, which she successfully built. A house over a hundred percent of the distance, not covering the entire surface area, but rather from one side to the other in each extreme.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: She managed to make the house touch every extreme. That's nuts.

Cristina: She sounds nuts. It looks nuts.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But there's a room dead center of all four of those points, and that's the room.

Cristina: You saw the room, the one empty. Okay.

Jack: That's the empty room with 14 hooks. 13. My bad.

Cristina: 13 hooks.

Jack: 13 hooks on the walls. Yeah.

Cristina: What is that about? What's the hooks for?

Jack: Coats.

Cristina: Okay, what's happening?

Jack: Let's unpack this real quick, Because I think with what we have, there's enough geometric patterns, a house structured in a geometric form, and these geometric patterns intersect with a room in the center, an empty room in the center, A room with coat racks, little hooks to put your coat on.

Cristina: Because she's summoning some things. Thirteen of them.

Jack: Interesting, no?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So what is that room?

Cristina: The teleporter.

Jack: It's a teleporter of some sort, yeah. Why?

Cristina: Why?

Jack: I don't know why. Also, with all the times they went and ran over talking about there's some dude on the property doing this and that.

Cristina: They were not complaining about her.

Jack: You connected the house all the way to the part of the house you thought that guy was going to. You made the whole house reach that?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Why? You made it cover the whole place. Why? And you put this room, this welcome room in the center of the house. Why? Weird.

Cristina: That is weird.

Jack: Very strange.

Cristina: It has to do with ghosts. Did they say anything about her seances, things like that?

Jack: When asked why she was building the house in this fashion, there is one line in a newspaper talking about the crazy lady. And the line says that her response is, I'm doing it to please the spirits.

Cristina: Okay, okay, that makes sense. That makes sense.

Jack: So then I gotta go down a different rabbit hole. What spirits are we talking about? Wheelbarrow men. One of the many spirits. But that doesn't seem like he would be bothering her. No, because ghosts don't bother anybody. They couldn't. That's not there. Spirits do. But that doesn't look like a spirit. Now, footsteps coming from nowhere and following people in the house is very different. Then footsteps somewhere in the house.

Cristina: That's what was going on.

Jack: Not that she reported. Again, I'm looking for what has been mentioned about this place. Those things have been reported. Not by her, but yes. Footsteps in the house. Now we have things. We have things. We got a guy who always goes to a cabinet. Echo. Had to be. He's always going to cabinet. Getting the same thing. A pantry. Always. And just kind of stops. It gets there and stops. There's a guy darting across the yard. Looks like he's playing sports. Okay, again, just the repetition. Yeah, that would be horrifying in the middle of the night if you're just wandering it straight across. But. Yeah, but like it happens every night. Same time, same kind of way. Okay. Yeah. Echoes. Why so many? I don't know what weird space time event took place here. Except the only one they claimed that has been seen by people afterwards has been the wheelbarrow man. There weren't other disturbances in this area originally. There was only the wheelbarrow then, which was their initial problem later. And as time went by, we get footsteps. Yep. Footsteps coming from nowhere. We get voices of people they think intruded into the house.

Cristina: This Is after her working on the house that more after she starts.

Jack: Yes. Now you get again, 100. As she starts building the house up. And more and more, it starts getting weirder and weirder. It starts getting way weirder. Eventually, there's voices speaking to the women.

Cristina: Oh, my gosh.

Jack: But they're not saying. It's incoherent. They can describe the same voice, and it's legible. You could tell things. It's telling them.

Cristina: Do you know what they're like? They. They have something.

Jack: No, these things weren't on record per se, but it was more just a record of phrase. Yeah, the record of that. They were, in fact, dealing with people in the walls and whatever. Now, here is a problem. These walls have passageways for days. The. Almost all the walls have a secret passageway. Why? You're hearing voices coming from every direction. Your walls have passageways.

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: It goes from supernatural to what the f***?

Cristina: To like, she's just crazy and she's haunting her own sisters.

Jack: I don't know.

Cristina: It's very strange because, like, yeah, it could just be her. We don't know.

Jack: It could just be her.

Cristina: It could just be a man pranking them real hard. No, he's taking a wheelbarrow and also just running around the house. I don't know.

Jack: Until the things start to move on their own.

Cristina: Okay, then, yes, definitely.

Jack: Hauntings and shapes start to form in dark places.

Cristina: But besides her building random things, is there anything else that she's doing that's weird? I mean, it's pretty weird. I know, but, like, there's nothing else.

Jack: Nothing of now.

Cristina: Just every. What she's doing is somehow summoning or something, you know, like, causing these things.

Jack: She's building a house, and then there's creatures. I can't tell you the house led to the creatures. That's for us to figure out. Yeah, but I can tell you that she built the house and then things started to happen.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: I don't know that they're connected for a fact. I just couldn't tell you that they're not because that's too prominent.

Cristina: It seems like it has to do. But I'm just saying, like, did she do anything else?

Jack: Built a house?

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Loud lightning. Figures in shape start to roam the place the sisters described. Seeing other people in the building at this point, but never being able to catch up to the people in the building.

Cristina: That's crazy. They live there their whole life. Like, even with all this crap happening, they're just like.

Jack: Yeah, they're just paying for it. And they just avoid certain parts of the house.

Cristina: Wow.

Jack: Yeah. Now, the empty room. The empty room is the center of the entire geometric pattern. The empty room features one detail we could not see, but it looked like a closet. The closet is a shrine of sorts.

Cristina: What?

Jack: It is used to hold things for a seance. That is described as the seance room.

Cristina: Okay, then that makes a lot of sense. That makes so much sense. Of course. Of course. Well, was her sisters not involved in that, or was she doing it with other people?

Jack: No, she was doing this alone. She would reject help. Well, she, throughout the course of her life, built this house.

Cristina: Well, what was she obsessed with? Was it bringing back her dead husband? Do they know?

Jack: Other detail to add. The house built completely chaotic. The patterns in the house totally random. Different times of architecture, different styles of architecture from around the world, minus one little detail. One thing that took many, many, many years after this house was open to the public to even find out, which was that the entire house is overlaid with subtle hints of Masonic imagery and detailing.

Cristina: It is Masonic.

Jack: She's a Freemason. Sarah Winchester. Sarah Sally Lockwood Winchester was a Freemason before she started building this house. In the middle of the house, she built a room that seems to be the focus, center of whatever's happening in a literal welcome spot, some sort of gateway or something. And the house itself is designed as the key to the portal or whatever.

Cristina: But her being a Freemason, so like, she got the idea from them or something, Like.

Jack: Well, this brings up the next question. Should we be looking at what the. The Freemasons are and how they connect to the bigger picture? This is the first time they cross paths in this kind of way. We've read about their library and things. They hold the knowledge, but. But now we're talking on some s***. We're talking on portal bridging. We're talking on Sarah Sally Lockwood Winchester performing a potentially necromantic trick and her existing in the late 1800s. How would she know? And what the f*** is a Freemason to have the answer to any of that?

Cristina: You think they have some necromancer technology or something? Some knowledge about.

Jack: They know something.

Cristina: They know about Hermes. They know about his studies.

Jack: They might be the rejects. I've had a theory about Alexander, and I've had the theory that he branched off into the weak other fakes that eventually led to the fake philosopher's stones and all this other bullshit that we're familiar with.

Cristina: Really?

Jack: I think Alexander the Great because he couldn't Cut it made his own thing with what he did know.

Cristina: And do you think that's related to the Freemason or whole different.

Jack: Might be directly. I can't prove it, no. But yeah, I would go out of my way to do so eventually. But I do believe that there's some connection between maybe not that group specifically, but a group of people who perform a lesser version of what the necromancers did in fact do.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And I think Alexander led to that. There is a group of people who do that. We've seen imitations that we're like this is kind of sort of. But this isn't. Can't be because of this. And that other thing disqualifies him. And it's like, well, you guys don't have a full picture of what being a necromancer is, but you guys know, normal people don't how.

Cristina: And this lady specifically? Yes.

Jack: Like she may be part of these whack noobs who can at least bridge a gap to the other side. And this would bring in then another picture. Everybody we talk about minus a Greek avoid adrenochrome. But we know current day many, many, many people. And in the past many attempts with adrenochrome have been done other than the philosopher's stone. That's the highest literal called the magnum opus process to get to the perfect philosopher's stone. So there are many wack weak philosopher stones. Yes, I think these guys are ones. I think it's them. I think these people that we've read about doing this.

Cristina: Probably what she was doing. Like she's not making philosopher's stones as far as I can tell.

Jack: Philosopher stones. But she knows enough to bridge a gap.

Cristina: A gate into the shadow realm.

Jack: So I think so. I think so. And I have to tell you important detail because that is sort of the cherry on top of this. The most prominent figure that haunts this mansion following their no longer being in that house is Sarah.

Jack: Do you see the problem here? She built a gate the way Jesus did, didn't she?

Cristina: So that she can.

Jack: But it wasn't complete. Something is wrong. Jesus can walk through. They literally said we saw him here, we saw him way the over there.

Cristina: Thank you. Back here.

Jack: Yeah. But we've also heard things that look so close to being a ghost, except there's some form of free will here. So you're not an echo, you're some other thing. And sometimes we've called them demons, but they're the weird fact that you're stuck in an area we've never been able to solve.

Cristina: No, that's why we just call them ghosts.

Jack: We call them ghosts.

Cristina: We call echoes echoes? Yeah, like, because we don't have better names.

Jack: But now, if we assume a ghost is an echo, then what is this thing with free will? Right? People who might have f****** failed at doing the right thing. Let's use Full Metal Alchemist as an example.

Cristina: Okay?

Jack: So you try to bring somebody back to life. You get a homunculus because you don't know how to break. You're not God. You're gonna bring somebody back to life. Now, people do know how to do it. But if you.

Cristina: Is that why these deaths are important? Because, like, maybe she feared death after losing the most important people to her. She was like, this isn't gonna happen to me. Or something. Like, I don't know either. She wanted to bring them back, but then, like, does anyone see them?

Jack: She knows, but that the Freemasons are essentially the Fallout Brotherhood. We don't have the answers, but we know how to get the answers. And although they don't want to give us the answers, we'll try our best to do it by force. And it's like, cool, great and all, but also, you don't know where all of them are. And you don't have the full picture. Everything you do is half a** by default, even if you put your full effort into it. Yeah, because you couldn't go full because you don't know what that looks like. That seems to be the case. And all these cases are people who knew, sort of, kind of on average, the steps did the things, but you don't really get it. And you f***** up somewhere in the process. So you're kind of like an echo, but you're not. You're stuck in the middle ground. You trapped yourself in that other place. Archive 81, the show. Everybody go watch that. It's on Netflix. Archive 81. At the very end. Spoiler warning, anybody who hasn't run away, cover your ears. Count to 50 to get trapped in the place. But why? Because the demon knows how to get through. The people don't. They're playing with fire. They don't understand. So what happens? They end up trapped in the limbo equivalent of where he is and where you began. This portal location. They're stuck in the house forever. But why is that the case? Because the house is within proximity and probably there's borders. I'm sure it's a perfect circle at a certain distance. And you can't exit that perfect circle because you would Cease to exist because you got caught in the sort of ripple you caused in space time crossing rifts.

Cristina: Yes, yes, yes, yes, I see that must have happened.

Jack: And there's a specific spot in Clinton Road where it makes perfect sense. There's a f****** castle dead center.

Cristina: They were doing some more stuff.

Jack: Yes. And people think literally Satanists go and f*** around in that place. It's dead center. But this is way larger than the estate. So they were doing some big f****** things. If that's the case. But then this gives us a f****** look into is science. And you're bending space somehow. And if you f*** it up, you can leave it that way.

Cristina: Yes. And that's what happens to all these places. It's usually in the middle of nowhere. Like Clinton Row. We've heard many stories of just like an area that random things happen.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Mad random things. Not really a house. This is the first time it's a house.

Jack: That's the first time it's a house. We find the center point. But also the castle in Clinton Road is its center point. It just so happens to be that Clinton Road, if you look at the paranormal area, kind of runs far to a side of it. But the entire forest with all the things, the castle's in the center.

Cristina: Weird.

Jack: Weird. And it kind of gives us a lot of information for a lot of things. Again, the slightest perspectives allows us to look at things that we would have ignored otherwise and. Wait a minute. You mean a room in the middle of the. Whatever. Oh wait. Paranormal activity. Maybe there's a gate here now. Maybe there's gates in a bunch of places. Maybe just looking for the most f****** haunted places is gonna lead us to people who connect directly to the necromancers, who connect directly to the Elysians, connect directly to the current day's Rayleighs. Everything is f****** pieced together.

Cristina: Oh my gosh. So where are we going? What's next?

Jack: Finding out what the most haunted places on earth are? Because those are places that were important to fakers.

Cristina: I feel like we have done that in the past. But I don't think we look to see who went there.

Jack: Who went there matters more than what's happening.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Now we know that what's happening is just some bullshit anomaly in space time.

Cristina: But like was a freemason or some type of group involved? Okay.

Jack: Because it could have been a mistake by somebody who knows what they're doing. Or it could have just been somebody who doesn't know what they're doing.

Cristina: Yeah. Gotta find out. Interesting.

Jack: Interesting. All because of Ms. Freemason herself.

Cristina: But does any of her sisters. Are they ghost too? Or is it just her unknown? It's just her unknown.

Jack: We have no idea for sure. People have claimed so that they've seen.

Cristina: Her sisters as well.

Jack: It's been reported.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But there's been a bunch of. There's many, many, many, many, many, many, many. If this is what it is, then it's a whacking complete portal and a bunch of s*** comes in and out. But they're trapped within the premises.

Cristina: But it would make sense that her sisters would be trapped. And maybe that's her goal as well. Be like, why would I want to die? What would I want them to die? Type of situation.

Jack: Other things to note. Does she choose this house intentionally because of where it is? Is there a factor you can harness and so you're doing the house here?

Cristina: I don't know. It seems real random because it came from a doctor. It started with the doctor.

Jack: Yeah. The random details about her life. Her moving to San Francisco, California, to begin with. Her and her husband had discussed this before he died. That's their dream. Getaway location.

Cristina: Was to go there.

Jack: Was to go there. So she already had this place in her mind before the story even begins. I don't know why. I don't know if the house was in her mind, but she had the place in her mind.

Cristina: Was he involved? Because then, like, would he know? Like, okay, if I die, this is what you should do.

Jack: Like, unclear.

Cristina: Bring me back or something? Like, was he part of the group? Had they just, like. Was this their plan too?

Jack: Like, it's weird, right?

Cristina: It's weird. Yeah.

Jack: It's a strange, strange situation. It looks like she built a gate.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: To not only walk through herself, but bring other people through. And she had no idea how to do it the right way.

Cristina: No. But she had at least 13 people in mind. How many sisters are. There's four. No, there's four, including her.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: And then there's children.

Jack: Yes. And her baby.

Cristina: And her baby and her husband.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: How many people there?

Jack: I don't know. Maybe it adds up to 13.

Cristina: Like, what if it did? Everyone's saying, like, it's evil, but what if it's like she's just. There's just 13 of them.

Jack: Yeah. But it is crazy.

Cristina: It is crazy.

Jack: It's a very interesting situation that this lady went ahead and did this. It looks like she built. It looks like she built a portal. The house itself is a design, so it's harder to f*** with. You can't destroy the lines. Unless you break through a wall or some s***.

Cristina: Yeah, that's. It's very intentional.

Jack: Very intentional. It's a mess with a room in the center, and she did it, so. And she wanted contractors help, and she didn't trust them. They're not gonna figure it out.

Cristina: No. No. It would be impossible. I don't understand. I don't understand how she even, like, can they find the blueprints she made for this house? Like, is that even a thing?

Jack: F****** nuts, right?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So that's what we got. What do you think?

Cristina: I think that's crazy. I think maybe she is part of a group and we should see if we could find that group.

Jack: About that group. We got this point. We could find that group if we could find a bunch of other s***.

Cristina: Because then that means people know about.

Jack: Hermes nowadays, even if they don't get it.

Cristina: Yeah. There has to be attempts.

Jack: There has to be attempts. People start trying, we know people are still trying. There's. We know that there's so many factories.

Cristina: Of adrenochromes, but this also, like, feels related to necromancy. The other part that we don't really focus on. Of the dead.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Like, that's maybe why most people get involved. It has nothing to do with teleporting to other worlds or anything, because they don't even know that's part of the story.

Jack: It could be about coming back themselves.

Cristina: It's just. Yeah. Most of them want to be immortal. Yeah. A lot of them.

Jack: Most of it. Same thing with adrenochrome. If you're doing necromancy, you're thinking immortality. If you're drinking adrenochrome, you're thinking immortality.

Cristina: And you're not ignoring all the. They have no idea about everything else involved. The history, the other worlds, etc.

Jack: None of it. No. 100%. There's a bunch of incomplete images and people f****** s*** up.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And I'm sure, based on this perspective.

Cristina: We can find it.

Jack: We can find that. I know that at least some of it has to be more situations like this that if you look at. Wow, this area is really haunted. I'm probably gonna start with Clinton Road.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Because what the h***, a castle is there.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So what do we have?

Cristina: I don't know. You're gonna find out, though.

Jack: Hopefully.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: But that's what we got. So that is the Winchester house. You guys can Google that name. And there are a plethora of images. It's open to the public. You can wander. Yeah. Everywhere. You don't need me to show you the images. They are everywhere. Enjoy looking at the Winchester house. There's a lot of information, a lot of it's conflicting, but most of it is out there. Feel free if you want to give us information. Anything you guys figured out, reading, looking, listening to this, ideas you had, whatever. You can hit us on our socials at justconvo, Pod on X, Facebook, Instagram.

Cristina: Tick tock, wherever the Remember to subscribe, rate and review the show.

Jack: Yes. And word of mouth. Tell people about how awesome this show is and how weird. Sarah Winchester, mother of Salmon Dean.

Cristina: No.

Jack: She had one kid and it died because she was a bad parent.

Cristina: That's awful.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: This has been the Rambling podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Bye.

Jack: S.A.

Cristina: Good morning. Good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by great dots.info art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McCallister with social media managed by Amber Black.

Rambling 256: As It Stands 2

What have we discovered as of late? How does it help us understand the true power of the Elysians and the scale of Elfame? And how do we fit into this bigger picture? The duo do a catchup summary to catch people up on how things stand as of now with our years of research.

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed:

  • Elysians
  • Naga
  • Garden of Eden
  • Shadow Gods
  • Nephilim
  • Magic Weapons
  • Necromancy
  • Refuge Cities
  • Philosopher’s Stones

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod

Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod

Instagram - https://instagram.com/justconvopod


+Transcript

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I am your host, Doug.

Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And this is a show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas. Like tattooing.

Cristina: Like, totally. I thought you were gonna say like, thing. Like you were actually saying like and whatever it was.

Jack: But like, there was gonna be an example.

Cristina: Yeah, yeah.

Jack: Oh, like bone Queef. Yes, I guess there's always an example. Bone Queef.

Cristina: Like, I think that character is dead. I haven' heard of that character in a while.

Jack: Like the thing a dog digs up and a fire.

Cristina: I guess he had to die.

Jack: No, he'll come back. He'll come back. That was come back. But listen, listen, listen. Hey, listen. God, I hate it. Can you imagine? You just sleeping. You got this. Paradise and paradise. Hey, listen. Wake the up. Hey, listen, it's an emergency. So you can take your time on this. You're gonna grab a sword and just. Just be not around for seven years, bro. Like, calm down, fairy. We're gonna do nothing for seven years, bro. Chill. It's fine, dude. We're gonna get to it. We're gonna have a seven year break in between. Not after sleep. Yeah, just in the middle. Chill, bro. There's time for whatever. Literally requesting for time. Oh, literally. Like, no. I mean, if I put the sword back, I just go back in time, bro. Let me sleep. I can. I could just go back.

Cristina: The future version is the very less annoying.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Like maybe grew up like it was a baby fairy being annoying. Like, hey, listen to me. Listen to me.

Jack: Oh, you think Navi was just young? Because he was young and he aged. So she aged. So the question is, was Navi? I mean, I guess because Nami follows him everywhere. So she was also just trapped.

Cristina: Yeah. I don't know how fair is work, but who knows?

Jack: All these fairies just trapped inside that chamber with him for seven years.

Cristina: Oh, no. But then she would have.

Jack: Wait, where was. Where. Where the h*** was Navi then?

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: Just chilling. Well, I guess I'm going stay here.

Cristina: Until she found the may reproduced.

Jack: Well, no, this is interesting. Weird thought related to that. But if a thing is like Navi's assigned the link and all the fairies are assigned the elves. Right?

Cristina: So.

Jack: Or I guess not elves, but the kids from the woods. The four. The fairy kids, you know, the what is whatever. The Kakaroki children or whatever them.

Cristina: You just call them elf kids. Yeah.

Jack: So if they get assigned a fairy and this is the first time ever that somebody just like poofed in front of a fairy and they're just gone, just not there. Like what, Step two? Like maybe. Maybe Navi different did well. No, his job was.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: So, like. Well, this is where it happened. I'm going to just wait. Time works different for fairy. Maybe. I don't know.

Cristina: You think you just waited?

Jack: Would. Would it matter? I just stayed there and then Link popped up. I'm like, all right, what's up?

Cristina: It's really sad.

Jack: Well, is it? If time works differently, it's sad for us because we're losing something.

Cristina: Ah. But for a fairy.

Jack: For a fairy, we haven't considered this. We know that for Shadow and for Alame, things work very differently.

Cristina: But for a video game character.

Jack: Yeah, but now that's just making me think about how time works differently. Because if we take the idea that gods, you know, God took seven days by his own time to make everything.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: But what is a second to God? Infinities. To us, colossal infinities.

Cristina: Okay, right. Yeah.

Jack: So then are creatures in Elfhame and in Shadow experiencing time differently in these kinds of ways?

Cristina: It would be impossible to know. But it's possible.

Jack: It's possible.

Cristina: I guess it's possible.

Jack: Very odd.

Cristina: Mm

Jack: It's a thought I've never had. Anyways, now we're on that topic. So now that it's the end of the year, I thought it would be interesting that we can. We did this once before where we kind of like put as much of the ideas together and actually came up with a couple ideas as a result of talking about all those things. And we called it as It Stands, where we went through all the collected detail. So I've added this to that. And we're going to go through all the new stuff. But I have all the old stuff so we can compare notes. Oh. If we need to discuss anything in particular. So we're just going to go. Essentially, what I want to do is, as we're doing this research, this is the year in review. You could say the second part. We basically did the first part when we did, as it stands, maybe like two months ago.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: So now we'll do as it Stands too, summarizing the other stuff. And we're just going to go through the things we know as of now.

Cristina: How it relates to the old stuff that we learned.

Jack: How. Not the old stuff, because we already talked about the old stuff as we were just doing that. We were just summarizing before. So right now we're going to pick up where we were when we finished. The last thing we talked about when we were in, as it stands one was talking about the different types of groups using the United States government to organize and collapse things like the World Trade center to get access to either fear or get access to drinochrome. Or perhaps that was a moment of creating a small scale philosopher.

Cristina: So, okay, I sort of remember that.

Jack: Yeah. So with that in mind, we proceeded that by getting curious. That made us curious about the Naga, the deep dive into the Naga. Because we were like, okay, we have this collection. We're gonna break this apart and start focusing in directions. Because focusing on everything together gave us a lot of cool ideas. So what if we isolate individual subjects and you know, focus on the Naga, focus on this group, focus on that group as opposed to try to get the whole picture together. Just stop looking at the picture, look at people involved and see what they have in common.

Cristina: Okay, yes.

Jack: Right. And so the first thing we started exploring was the Naga, which got weird instantaneously when we started looking at the Naga because we found out a couple of interesting things. For example, the fact that the Naga have a civilization with in Elfame from which they take order and direction to go assist civilizations from around the world. The world? The most advanced. Well, developing ones from around the world, yes.

Cristina: Do we know it's. If it's just in this earth or do they also send them to the Shadow Realm?

Jack: We do know they send them to the Shadow Realm. Yes. Because they have the two Gods. Not the two Gods. My bad. The two Kings.

Cristina: Oh, no. But I thought they just went there because like they came here and then they went there because of stuff that happened. They didn't automatically go there. Or did they automatically go there?

Jack: Yeah, they have a Naga King assigned to every thing. There's Naga Kings in Alfame. There's Naga Kings. I mean, not Naga Kings. There's three Naga Kings that rule the people that they send to the three civilizations that are in Alame in Shadow.

Cristina: Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, I remember that. Okay, the Three Kings or whatever. Yeah. What were they again? The three Kings? One was.

Jack: What were their names?

Cristina: Yeah, and positions or whatever. Like were they sending.

Jack: Okay, let me see, I got first. Nah. Nagaraha is the word that means King of the Night of the Nagas. And so Shesha, the first appointed king of the Nagas, is in charge of maintaining order among the among and assisting order, assisting Oros with assigning civilizations to Earthrealm and Vasuki the second Naga King is assigned to the Shadow Realm.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And Takshaka is. Who watches over those two. He's the king of those two kings. So the high rank. The king of kings. So he's the alfame one.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Watches these two.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Yes. And that was just some weird additional thing that happened at one time.

Cristina: Yes. So they do have them in the Shadow Room.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Okay. Okay.

Jack: Yes, yes. Then looking at the Naga, we did find something interesting, which was the first occurrence we had of reading, which then became prominent. And we found that everywhere, like every other thing we discover. Which was Kido, Zeus's Naga, who Zeus appointed to somehow create more of him. And this resulted.

Cristina: The Naga experiments, I guess, resulted in.

Jack: Medusa and her sisters.

Cristina: We'll follow the experiments.

Jack: But yeah, they weren't exactly him, but they were pretty close. And Medusa was a whack one, but the famous one, because presumably she's the dead one. We all. We just know the guy who killed her, who thought they were immortal and killed. Killed one of them alone. They can't die. And I killed them. I'm legend and that's the one who died. Haha. I'm gonna go down in history and it's like, no, that one could die. That's why you killed it. This is. That one could die, bro.

Cristina: Okay, but he didn't go in history.

Jack: No, she went down in history because she got killed. And who the h*** did it? We still don't know. We're assuming Hercules.

Cristina: Yeah, right. I don't know.

Jack: Okay, but now we have Naga civilization. We have kings, we have order, military order almost established. Here you go there you go here, hierarchy. Then we have over here us building experiments in an attempt to replicate what's happening over there. Because now we're not even talking. Now we're talking about us using an assigned Naga to try to create a Naga with Kido, making the Medusa and her sisters.

Cristina: You're saying us, but it's not really us.

Jack: Us as in Earth Realmers. Okay, but then we find out about the human Caldinia, who gets a hold of a magic bow capable of killing a Naga and is set to kill the Naga princess, daughter of Suki.

Cristina: Wait, did they do it?

Jack: They did not kill the daughter. They fell in love with the daughter and then hid the bow.

Cristina: Ah, okay, that's a crazy story.

Jack: But that gave us the one with the one important bit of information, that there are items.

Cristina: Oh, yes. I. I feel like we haven't really solved that. Like we kind of get it, but don't really get any.

Jack: We're still. Yeah, we're on the surface.

Cristina: If anyone made those weapons, it wasn't the N. It was probably not the Nagas, but they probably helped the.

Jack: Yeah, the Naga didn't make that bow for sure. The bow was made by somebody in Earthrealm.

Cristina: Yes, a se. Person or whatever you call them that I don't remember.

Jack: Elaine, not elame. Alician.

Cristina: Okay. Lesions.

Jack: Yeah, the Alicians.

Cristina: BC people to me. Okay, well, they obviously made these weapons.

Jack: I mean, the problem is as we start. Look, dude, we were sleeping on the Greek too. Like as we start looking into the Greek, they're like. They're subtle, dude. It's weird because what happens with them is different than what happens with the Elysians. Because the Elysians have actively suppressed a lot of stuff and given us alternatives to believe.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: While the Greek haven't. They just have a lot of. A lot of volume, a lot of noise, a lot of convolution. So finding out what's. What is impossible. And from their own accounts, they don't know. So you get it from other people. And then coming across the leaps and bounds of tech that lead to something like Glycon, which again is Glycon.

Cristina: Well, it's a thing person, Glycon, both.

Jack: From the Greek is the Naga, who. We did not know why he was spending time with the Greek gods.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: We were confused about that guy. Like, why the h*** are you hanging out with them? Because Keto is the one assigned to that team. And we were thinking Glycon is assigned to maybe a shadow person there or something, you know. But then when we were looking deeper into it, we find out that Glycon is just as Shalypius, which is one of the Greek gods that. That seems to have disappeared.

Cristina: That turned into him.

Jack: Yeah. And then using some Keto genius and DNA managed to create Glycon, the artificial Naga that is almost perfect.

Cristina: Which I don't know what that means.

Jack: I don't know what that means either.

Cristina: Almost perfect too. You probably can't enter the shadow, the.

Jack: Fairy world, which me then what's the point of it, right? There's a lot of weird when it comes to that. Really complicated. Like what's a. What a waste.

Cristina: Yeah, that is weird.

Jack: But it is. I don't know. Now, the Caldenia, the guy with the bow, he falls in love with that princess, hides a bow and they together form on Earth realm the Funan dynasty. Which is one of the few places where Naga and humans live in pieces together, which is one of two interesting places of this nature that we have found. Or not two, but two types. With the other being we have recently found out about the home of Nephilim being together up north in Norway.

Cristina: Oh yeah. But that one's even more complicated.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But we got both, which is interesting.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And we know of shadow people just living amongst humans. Or not just humans, but earthlings in general. But we'll circle back to that as we come through those. Because the real point of this dynasty is that it brings us to the next bit of information that we discovered following. Because chasing the Naga was in formation dense. We still haven't left the Naga. We're still just talking about the Naga right now. Because the Funan dynasty. The home of Caldinia where he impregnates his wife and has a half Naga, half human hybrid. Astika. That's when we first found out that a perfect enough human form for a Naga is indistinguishable from a human form for Ib. For a human. So a human can reproduce as long. Presumably as long as the Naga does not leave that form. Or if they did change to form with their body move in such a way that the baby would be safe. I don't know.

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: I don't know.

Cristina: I don't know how this is.

Jack: Thoughts?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Thoughts you don't normally think about.

Cristina: Like if it was a snake while they had sex with that guy.

Jack: No one had to be a woman. It couldn't get pregnant as a snake. And then again, back to more Naga stuff. Man. These episodes with the Naga it was two episodes. Because there's so much crap. I remember that much. This is where we also learn about the Supasatra. Which is. Is what? Astika, the son of Caldinia saved many Naga from which was the leader of a region in that time. Was he figured out his great great grandfather had somehow figured out how to create a ritual that would result in philosopher stones made from Naga. And this guy went out of his way to execute the plan. And that's when we find out. Oh, there could be fairy philosopher stones.

Cristina: Yes. Okay. This takes us back to those fairy trees or something we're not sure. Are portals created from dead fairies?

Jack: Are portals created to dead from dead fairies? Because the trees just creating Earth Realm means the trees created the portal that sprung a whole universe. So if the tree did that, then the death of a fairy is such a weird phenomenon that burying it in the wrong place resulted in the creation of a universe.

Cristina: Well, the wrong Place. I feel like it was done intentionally.

Jack: Yes, but not where they're supposed to be. Maybe this is the first of that. Or there are way more realms branching out of shadow that we can't access. Okay, so shadow can. And Elfame can, but we can't. Because whatever thing is happening here is preventing us from moving sideways. But we can move up or down.

Cristina: Okay. Unless we figured out.

Jack: Unless we figured out how to do more.

Cristina: Well, we don't. But those other people.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: They have to know how to, though. How are they so much better than everything else as far as we can see? I don't know.

Jack: But the. The creation of. So what's the process? Well, our guess is that Yaldabaoth used fairies, killed them then. No, it doesn't make sense. Because did he use the death of fairies to make the stone? Or did he use the death of fairies to make the trees? The weird problem we didn't think about because again, we didn't talk about this back to back, but what the h*** did he use the fairies for then? It seems kind of clear at this point. Yaldabao murdered a bunch of fairies.

Cristina: And he could have done both.

Jack: He could have done both. Because the point is he has a philosopher so made of fairies. Yeah, like fairies are dead. That's just what it is.

Cristina: And we know there are trees, and.

Jack: We know they're trees. But I don't think that the fairies made the portal. I think, no, it's so hard because they made the portal, the tree portal. But the other portals know because sorcerers are figuring that out. Necromancers are figuring something different. So there's a different way to do it. It's not really the way we're looking at. The fairies had nothing to do with those portals. The fairies are responsible for accidentally creating Earthrealm as a result of their own death and of creating a philosopher's stone, which chances are, the first fairies to die made the philosopher's stone. The second fairy Sedai were planted, creating the trees that then resulted in Earthrealm, thus being an intention of Yaldabaoth philosopher's stone used on fairy to make tree.

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: I think maybe that's the order. I don't think it was plant the fairy's corpse and boom, tree happens. Because that's what happens in fairy forts. You. But that has a tree too, d*** it. There is a tree. Where you plant the fairy is a problem. Yes, but then why don't those have the sacred fruits?

Cristina: Because they're the fruits. Are there they're just on the shadow realm side.

Jack: Shadow realm side? Yeah, we don't see them. The fruits only grow on the shadow room side.

Cristina: How do we know the fruits and the stones are not one and the same?

Jack: Because the fruits were seeked in the shadow in the Forest of Shadows, and the stone is made of dead people. Both El and Jehovah had to travel to the Forest of Shadows along with the. The judge's sister. Okay, Inanna, all three cases is they have to go to the Forest of Shadows. While the two factual instances we do know for a fact and the one that is asserted by the circumstances surrounding it, which is Yaldabaoths, all the first two literally have texts telling us that people were essentially sacrificed. And Yaldabouths is essentially suggested circumstantially that he must have because he has a stone made of dead fairies. Like, how do you get it, bro? Okay, it is really complicated.

Cristina: Are they making stones and trees?

Jack: How are they making stones and trees if it's the fairies? And the idea here is fairy farming and fairies are the ones on the back foot right. Now, maybe at some point they weren't, but at some point around the time where the elves were designated to start putting some caps on people's ability to continue expanding around that time, that's when it was too late.

Cristina: Yes. Okay.

Jack: You know, and like, that's when they were on the back foot. That's why they did it. So something happened around that time, which is a hundred years before Christ. 100 to 300. Somewhere in that ballpark, before Jesus is when fairies. Shut up.

Cristina: Shut up. Okay.

Jack: The. Well, specifically the elves.

Cristina: Which ones are the elves?

Jack: The ones stopping the power or the development beyond a certain capacity, I think started hitting the fan back then.

Cristina: Anything. They were the ones that were sacrificed to make stone or.

Jack: No, no. But I think that they are on the back foot. And I think that the problem here is that maybe the people on this side are so rapid that in progress that fairy farming is becoming quite viable. And that's a problem, at least for the people of Alfame. Now, this is crazy because we learned a lot just from like deep diving into the Naga. That was the most useful information dump we have had for a while. And that opened mad doors. This was just. Again, those two episodes entirely came from us having done the previous summary of information. And we're already coming up with just interesting ideas that we have not thought before.

Cristina: Still so many questions, but yes, so much info.

Jack: But following the train of thought, it worked with the Nanga So do it with everything. So then the next group that we decided to put a magnifying glass on was the Garden of Eden. Because just the realization that the Garden of Eden is the name of the group was an amazing revelation on its own. Now, what are the Garden of Eden? They are the Elysian group with Jehovah, Lilith, Nahas, the serpent, Lucifer, Samael and many others. Many, many others. Now, going through that, we learned quite the bit of information that we did not know before. Interesting tidbits that we discovered. One, there is a discrepancy with Lilith that seems incoherent among the text.

Cristina: Oh, how? When exactly? Does she betray them or something? Yeah, like in the timeline.

Jack: Yeah, where she fits. Exactly. Exactly. Because it seems as she exists both around the time of El and around the time of Jehovah, which is fine. Sizen does too. But then did you. Did you. Didn't you lose your privileges when you used Adam? How are you here again? But you weren't there for Eve, it seems. There's no mention of Lilith during Eve and that's notable. There's just no Lilith. But then we get to making of Jesus and Lilith is there again and it's like, not in the Bible, but if we look at all the Gnostic text, she keeps popping up and it's like, but why? And like, what is this middle period you were in? This doesn't make any sense.

Cristina: She was punished and she's cast out.

Jack: Officially by Jehovah, but she left willingly from L. So I don't. Yeah, like what?

Cristina: The all happened the way, way long ago. Yes, she left and she came back.

Jack: She didn't come back to anything. This is a different guy.

Cristina: Oh, she didn't come back. She joined a new group, I guess.

Jack: Yeah. So Lilith. Weird time gaps, but that wasn't as. It's not impactful as much as it is interesting. And maybe we'll revisit if information tells us that is more useful than we think it is. But even more interesting is Lucifer, because there's a trio here that's really weird. And it's essentially Lilith, Lucifer and Samael, because Lilith is the right hand to Lucifer. Lilith is. Or Samael is in love with Lilith, so he goes wherever she goes. Lucifer uses Samael's DNA, physical structure and body to then create a replica using a transitioning technique he discovered to turn himself from a shadow person into an Elysian.

Cristina: Weird.

Jack: Weird. So he looks identical, sounds identical, is physically indistinguishable from Samael, but that's fine.

Cristina: Shadow version of him?

Jack: Sort of, yeah. Except he's. He isn't Elysian. He just has additional characteristics. It should be impossible. Which. Yeah, the shadow version of him, but then it doesn't matter because original Samael then uses Naha's DNA and physical structure, or not DNA, but the equivalent of whatever you're gonna get out of a fairy and his physical structure, along with Lucifer's transition technique to then become Anaga himself. Yeah, with the help of Lilith. This was a Lilith experiment. So Lucifer looks like. Sounds like Samael.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Who is in love with Lilith, who is Lucifer's right hand lady to begin with. So now the guy who's trying to f*** her is her boss. And a snake is now trying to her.

Cristina: That's Lucifer trying to.

Jack: No, Lucifer's not. Oh, the guy who's trying to her is a snake.

Cristina: Oh yeah.

Jack: Now he's a snake.

Cristina: Yeah, but she was cool with that. She want him to be one.

Jack: Yeah, sure. He's a puppy or a slave or whatever.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But now your boss looks like the guy who's trying to you. It's a problem. The guy who's trying to you is your boss.

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: You know, it's. It's such a complicated mess happening there.

Cristina: Yes, yes, it is. But how. Boss is a weird word. I feel like they all work together.

Jack: Yeah, they work together, but there is. I. I would. Yeah, boss is the wrong terminology here because Lucifer wasn't the leader anyways. It was Jehovah.

Cristina: Yeah, yeah. If anyone was gonna be put say they're the leader. Like these three were just working together hand in hand. And not really, because weren't they all doing their own thing, sort of. Well, Lilith, at least they all had.

Jack: Different types of projects. But the projects would consistently intersect with one another.

Cristina: Yeah, they were more like co workers.

Jack: Yeah, yeah. Then out of the Garden of Eden individuals. Where it gets really, really weird is with the Samael and Lucifer combination minus Lilith. Because then that explains a lot of the confusion that exists throughout history. If we consider Samael, Lucifer and replace Lilith with Nahas. Now if we put them in a row, we have Samael in the middle, Mahas on one side and Lucifer on the other. The events of all three of these people are impossible to distinct who did what because you don't know who's who at what time because of when their transitions happen and what they are. Somebody in the Garden of Eden used incorrectly tech that was there and was cast. That's Lilith. Yes, Right. The serpent she was with was Nahas. He's the member of the team. Lucifer was not involved in doing this. No the first time. But we think Lucifer. But really? Because we think Lucifer and we think Samael and we think Samael and we think serpent and then serpent links us back to Nahas and then bam. Oh. Lucifer is the snake.

Cristina: But he's not.

Jack: But he's not. Nahas is the snake. That had nothing to do with Lucifer. Lucifer got blamed for some other s***.

Cristina: Yes. But he was definitely doing something much later. Yeah.

Jack: It was Lucifer's departure. Happens with Jehovah. Because Jehovah says we're no longer sharing.

Cristina: Yes. Because everyone was dying.

Jack: Yeah. And he's like. Well he agreed with that part. But he's like we should share with the people who are capable that we've proven are capable. And he's like no, no, we're not sharing with anybody anymore. What we got is what we need. That's it. And it's like you're gonna leave everybody in the Stone Age and we're just gonna dip on them. So he was not down with that. And that's where that disagreement happened. But that happens in the year one to us.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: You know that's very, very, very different than Lilith using Adam at the wrong time a hundred and fifty zero zero zero years ago and now has having just been around and Lucifer being blamed for some that was outside of his existence. Which is what happened. D***. And then Samael also has nothing to do with any of this. Actually somehow is just an elation. But no, this is a funny.

Cristina: Because that's her boyfriend.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: No.

Jack: I guess. I don't know. It's not clear. I don't think that was terminology that made sense back then. They weren't married. Nahas was also not back there. 156000 years. I have no idea why both Lucifer and Nahas got toss the boss for some.

Cristina: Lilith did that long ago.

Jack: Yeah. I don't know why that's in the book like that. It doesn't show up anywhere else. It does not. It's Lilith. It was 100%. She's the only one who did anything.

Cristina: Well they kind of took her out of the book. So they just replaced her with the other guys. Exactly.

Jack: Members from later. They're basically just trying to cut off. I guess that's. I guess that's part of it. They're trying to cut off anything before Jehovah. Yeah, no, I just. Just began 5,000 years ago.

Cristina: Yes, yes.

Jack: Recent. So you can't have any of that other. It's like if you cut that off, then Lilith didn't do.

Cristina: Okay, that makes sense.

Jack: Lilith who, bro?

Cristina: Yeah, Lilith who?

Jack: Well, the thing still happened. Oh, that guy did it. Yeah, it. Both of them? No, it's one dude. It's one dude.

Cristina: Double bro makes the story more simple.

Jack: Simple, but d***. That means he's just throwing random people under the bus for absolutely no reason. Lucifer and Nahas both got shafted somehow is sketchy because he does weird. I understand people being like, Lucifer's supposed to do bad stuff, so I'm okay one. But it's because somehow really does some sketchy. He just does whatever the h*** Lilith wants. Like turning his freak himself into a serpent thing.

Cristina: Yeah, but how does that affect anyone?

Jack: For what?

Cristina: I don't know. That's just a creepy kinky thing that they're doing. I don't know.

Jack: He could still turn back to a dude.

Cristina: Yeah, like how does that affect the world?

Jack: Yeah, I guess. I guess it's ultimately unimportant. And his base form. But his base form is a snake. That's really what it is.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: He could just human out. Not human. I guess I'm not human. But he can Alicia now. Oh yeah. I want to. But she's also. Whatever. She was already kinky. She's not elation to begin with.

Cristina: No.

Jack: Not even human. She's not from Earth.

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: Some other. Some other s***.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Like whatever. She's down with putting crap in holes or whatever they do.

Cristina: Whatever they do.

Jack: I'd never thought about it. Whoa.

Cristina: No idea.

Jack: There's a lot we don't know. No, just stupid abstract questions that don't cross our mind. Like how do shadow people reproduce random side episode to do one there.

Cristina: Yes. But also. Yes, please. What if they do need something special? Because why did she make. She made her children through the stone. She didn't give birth to children. But maybe there are stories of her giving birth to children. I don't know.

Jack: You have a point. That is incredible.

Cristina: I don't know. We'll find. We'll figure that out in the future.

Jack: Interesting. Interesting, interesting, interesting. Because she did use the. I mean. No, this is the floor man.

Cristina: Well, the story says she gave birth, but in real life she used the stone or something like that. But you have an idea?

Jack: No, I'm just fascinated by the idea that she did in fact feel this professional, this individual who knows what to do, when to do, still felt the impulse to drive to make life with the stone and all the descriptors put Lilith as female among the shadow people. Whatever that means. And her interest seems male based on her interest for somehow who is a male. An Elysian male, which, okay, maybe they can't reproduce and this was the way the desperate. Because what is. Oh my God.

Cristina: Oh my gosh. The first guy who used the stone. No, that doesn't make sense.

Jack: No, no, no, listen to me, listen to me. It's connecting. It's connecting because the point, the one point, the goal of Osteomorphous, the Naga that was artificially made by Yaldabaoth was with d expressive intent. To what?

Cristina: Make more.

Jack: Make more. But why? Why didn't we connect those two dots before?

Cristina: That has more to do with the shadow. I mean, no, with the ship.

Jack: Let's just make more. Make more, as far as we know, just make more is the one thing connecting Lilith using the stone and yeah, we've connected to completely random things. He just impulsively went out of their way.

Cristina: But we know that there's children in the Shadow Realm. Didn't someone have a daughter who traded lives with a princess or. No, she was a princess. She's a daughter slash princess.

Jack: Yes, yes, like Inanna.

Cristina: Yes, but at the same time, did they only start giving birth after the guy made the stone? Like, was the first thing he found out about fairies killed fairies made more Shadow Realm people when he was making more humans. Like, did that happen at the same time? Okay, I know we know time works differently too. Or maybe we had that idea in the beginning of this episode.

Jack: Not that we know that time does work very differently. But there is something very interesting that you have just mentioned. Keep in mind, I have to compose this with ideas of where I'm going to some degree, right? So I look for things that I'm going to we free for all. But I know what I want to talk about. So I leave a lot of timestamps when they don't matter out, because who cares? But for the sake of timestamping things, there is a weird pattern that I did notice and I looked into and couldn't find anything of significance. Where maybe about 500 years before Christ to about the 1800s with the very center point being the big chunky peak. It seems that stories of creatures we would describe from the Shadow Realm get more frequent and more frequent and more frequent. And then getting to somewhere im like the 1100s or so, it starts tapering off, slowing down, slowing down just less and less. But there's that hot spot in the middle, just for no reason. We've joked about these periods in the past saying that this was one of those moments where the Catholic Church was just pumping out a bunch of demons and s***. We've talked about stuff like that before, but we've not addressed the time specifically because that wasn't relevant to the episode. We were just talking about the Church and the Simpson or this creature specifically. But this pattern has persisted where around the 1100s is the most explosive amount of stories. But it kind of falls off.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And there's kind of like a tiny little spike 17 to 1800 right before it almost goes nowhere. And now we just got alien source. But interesting because did they figure a thing out? Was what's the point of the f****** of Oceomorphos to use. If you really are a hundred percent what you are, then your powers like Oros. Because Ophiomorphos purpose is to be like Oros, not like any other Naga. Yaldabaoths Naga, the one he artificially created.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And Osteomorphous is to create more, which means you are perfect like Oto's, which means you can do things that Mab would ask. Things beyond the capacity that a normal Naga would ask. You wouldn't be described as a Naga. You're described as a fairy.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Oros, which means Osteomorphous is identical. Which means asking Ophiomorphos to give my people the ability to produce, to reproduce, to give birth, to multiply. Allow us to multiply would in theory be within the capacity of Ospeomorphos, because Yaldabaoth would have successfully created a God more powerful than he. With Osteomorphous, if he is identical to Otos, who is a fairy. And then you get the people to multiply and we have this giant spike. Then we get Yalda going to visit L and Sizen being there too. And then Derek, because he already went back there to tamper with them when they were just whatever the h***. They start to get really intelligent, start to get really overpowered. Technology here are other realms. Know about it. Look for it. Find me when you have the tech buddy. Also, there's my son. Go, go join him.

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: Mingle.

Cristina: Yeah, mingle.

Jack: Hang out. Also we can reproduce now. I have a son. What? I have a f****** son. You meet my f****** son.

Cristina: What's that?

Jack: What's that about? Could he not have a son before? Is that that? Did he not. And then he did the thing and now he could have a son. And he has a son. Citizen has a f****** mom.

Cristina: No, I mean if they're using this tech, they don't need to.

Jack: It wouldn't be tech if they used. If they got altered by Oros.

Cristina: Thing is changing.

Jack: I guess it's not auto, but. Osteomorphous.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Is autos short for something? Because then if. If it is, then I could just shorten ospeomorphos as well and say otos and also OS4 or whatever crap.

Cristina: No, that doesn't sound good. There should be a way to turn it, but we haven't figured. What was his whole name again?

Jack: Osfeomorphous?

Cristina: Morpheus.

Jack: We could say Morpheus. Morpheus, but. Yeah. So that's some s***. This is exactly the point of this. When we see the information all stacked up together, certain things become clear that we wouldn't have thought about before. Is reproduction part of this objective for all of them? I don't know. Because it also seems like there is a huge counter. Like there's a fight of, you know, an attempt to stop this from happening coming from Alfame. Like, why it has to be for more than just the reproduction part.

Cristina: I know, but a lot of it has to do with the reproduction part.

Jack: It seems like at least Yalda and Lilith, who are two quite important individuals, both had reproduction on their minds.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Tells us.

Cristina: But what are the stones for if it's not for that too? I don't know. Because it's reproduction in its own other way. Like, you know, making us. Yeah, we're children.

Jack: I don't know.

Cristina: There's some experiment. We're also. They're giving birth to us.

Jack: In a way, what we're missing is essentially the quantum theory. You get my point? Like the thing that's connecting that. We got a lot of completed ideas, and we know they're all related, but we don't know what the f*** that centerpiece is that connects them is. But we know. We see it. We visualize how it goes together. But we don't see the centerpiece. And it's like, it's not there anywhere. Why does. Why hasn't any of this revealed to us the ultimate goal?

Cristina: Because they. They hit it very well.

Jack: Tell me about it very well is an under f****** statement at this point. They hit it well, that's the. No, it's invisible, dude. What?

Cristina: It's not completely invisible. We have glimpses here and there.

Jack: No, we don't. We don't. No, no. We have. Not even the slightest.

Cristina: We have shadows.

Jack: Yeah. At best.

Cristina: At best? Yeah. Okay.

Jack: Random mentions of s*** that makes no sense until we get the proper other mention. And then we're like, oh, Just looking.

Cristina: At a bunch of little, little things. Okay.

Jack: Scraps here and there. And when you looked at enough scraps, one of them that you saw a long a** time ago clicks with this one, you're like, oh, wow. I got one piece of information out of all this. It's tragic.

Cristina: I don't know. I don't know what it's all about at the end of the day.

Jack: Yeah. All right. Samael is the first individual to discover how to grow fruits from the Forest of Shadows in earthrealm. And he started with the fruit of knowledge, which is useful. Don't know how the h*** he did it, but he did it. And that's important. They figured he figured it out. He figured out how to grow because again, you put the fairy in the ground, the tree comes out. It's just a tree, but on the other side. But he figured out how to get the thing out without having to go.

Cristina: Put the fairy in the ground. I think that. I don't know, it's complicated.

Jack: Like, the death of the fairy grows the tree.

Cristina: Yeah. Like, I think it comes out of the fairy.

Jack: So you put the fairy in the ground.

Cristina: No, the fairy is not going in the ground. The fairy's just dying where it's at.

Jack: Oh, I get what you mean. Yeah, yeah. He'll just become the ground.

Cristina: Yeah, yeah, fair enough.

Jack: You don't have to bury it. You kill the fairy. Boom. Tree happens there.

Cristina: Yes. Because the. The whole idea of it being in all the realms, like, no, it's not gonna be bird, because that doesn't make any sense.

Jack: It doesn't make any sense. Yes. But the idea that they do. Oh, that's interesting. Right, because the idea that they do exist, kind of like they could just pop in and out without needing portals. Very logical. When you just think of the fact that one dying literally connected to random points in space.

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: That's weird.

Cristina: Okay, that does.

Jack: That's weird. I guess that was a fact. And we didn't know that was a fact. And the fact of the matter was there because we've debated how are they jumping? How. How are they getting from point A? We know they could just be there, but how? No. Did something about this. This part isn't tech. There's something about their makeup that's different enough.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: But they're just there. And when they die, somehow because of that being everywhere. Well, everywhere kind of gets tied in. That spot. Weird. They die and where they die, everywhere just gets tied together.

Cristina: Yes. Yeah.

Jack: Weird.

Cristina: But it's weird. But there's some other Things so.

Jack: And Yalda learned this fact and uses it.

Cristina: And how he learned it, how he learned it, how to make a weapon to kill fairies. Had to be with a fairy helping. I don't know. So why would a fairy help him?

Jack: Lucifer leaves the garden after having a disagreement with Jehovah which was disagreement we discussed.

Cristina: Yes, let's share knowledge. But also the knowledge is killing them.

Jack: Yeah. They can't handle it. They're self destructing. But a couple of civilizations could handle it. And he wanted to find those. And Jehovah was like, no, we're done finding people.

Cristina: Because it's, it's just the. I guess it's not balance of like how many are actually surviving versus not surviving. Like say they did this. They didn't do it just to four people and then only two made it. It was probably hundreds of civilization the Earth. Exactly. And only two old equator. Exactly.

Jack: Surrounds the Earth.

Cristina: So how many civilizations.

Jack: One of the civilizations that made it isn't even around it.

Cristina: That's true.

Jack: How many places weren't around the old equator that we don't know about that they tried and didn't work?

Cristina: Yeah, the amount, exactly the total amount to just know about these.

Jack: Yeah. No, it's too much.

Cristina: It's a big, big failure.

Jack: Just the ones we do know failed.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And the two we know didn't.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And it's like. No, this is pretty bad.

Cristina: It's pretty bad.

Jack: Just how many don't we know about? And still we only know two made it. D***.

Cristina: That's pretty crazy. That's pretty bad.

Jack: And the problem is we have their corroborating information and they don't mention a third party other than the Elysians.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it is just all three of them. Yeah, that's it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: There's other groups who have made progress on their own, but not. They have collapsed under the weight of Alicia knowledge.

Cristina: No. Which. Who knows what that number is.

Jack: But they try. I mean, I guess. So the. The argument here is you side with Jehovah. You think it's a logic a lot. Yeah, I guess.

Cristina: Yeah. It's. It's just too much that if everyone.

Jack: Dies, you should give the people the choice. You tell them.

Cristina: I don't know how they could understand. Like they have to know it first to know it and then they. They end up killing themselves because of it. Like I don't know. It's complicated.

Jack: Yeah. No, you don't have to explain that. You explain to them that, look, this is really like here people, People we're about to Share this with. This is really advanced. Many civilizations have completely destroyed themselves after we have given them our technology and our knowledge. They have simply not been able to cope. Their governments have collapsed, their infrastructure, their economy, all of it has fallen apart due to these things. Many times over. We need you guys to come to a collective agreement.

Cristina: You don't know anything about humans. Because of course they're gonna be like, we're the ones that are gonna make it. It's like people getting married. Yeah, yeah, we're the ones.

Jack: We're the ones who are gonna do it. They're all gonna sign up.

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: They're all gonna say, no, we can do it.

Cristina: Yes. Like, in what. What's world are we not like, yes, we're gonna. Like, who's gonna be like, what? That knowledge. Oh, I guess we shouldn't take that knowledge. No. Like, what? Who do you think? Which of. Like, who's gonna be like, no, nobody.

Jack: Nobody.

Cristina: Who do you think?

Jack: Nobody. Especially if they know other humans have been given the opportunity. No, now we have to do it. Pride.

Cristina: Yeah. Now we have to. Yes. They're gonna be like, oh, well, we can't let those people get it.

Jack: Exactly.

Cristina: Then, yeah, he's not gonna give it to us.

Jack: He's gonna offer it to somebody else. And I'm not gonna let him do that.

Cristina: Yeah, no way.

Jack: I'm gonna be the fourth one. Our people, we're obviously the chosen, and then they collapse.

Cristina: Yep. It's no way to explain it.

Jack: No. Yeah, you're right. Okay, so Lucifer's wrong. It's this. Yeah, you're right. You're right, you're right. Lucifer's wrong. Yeah, His. The sentiment is right.

Cristina: Yes, sure. But.

Jack: But I guess we're talking science. Why are you getting emotional?

Cristina: I think that's. They have to probably wait until we're more. Like when they.

Jack: It's perfect. Until getting somebody new to understand is a perfect unfeeling formula.

Cristina: But they have to keep doing the whole thing, though, of making more, which it doesn't seem like they're doing either, of using philosopher's stones to create more better humans, etc. Like after Jesus. That was that. I mean, yes, they do test it out somewhat, but like, he was the peak and that was it, I guess.

Jack: But Arthur functioned, but Arthur died.

Cristina: Yeah, he's not what they were like originally.

Jack: It was a self contained incident too. It was just somebody handling their personal s***.

Cristina: It's not like. I don't think they're trying to make puppets. I mean, now they do. Only because they can. Like he's a puppet in a way.

Jack: Arthur was a puppet. So is Joseph.

Cristina: Yeah, but like, their. Their original plan wasn't to make puppets, I think.

Jack: I don't think it was either. It was just to make an overpowered elite who's gonna do what we want. And then the big problem happened, and then you gotta get rid of them. But now you created resentment.

Cristina: Yes, but I think the goal was to make more of us, but of that us.

Jack: Jesus. More Jesus.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Minus the problem.

Cristina: Yes, I guess.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Like that seems the big goal is making more of something because then we'd cross.

Jack: But I don't. I guess because Jesus can't just enter, Jesus still, even after dying, still needs to obey the laws that govern reality. So he still ends up in shadow. But luckily knew this would play out this way. Goes through the gate and gets back. But without the gate, he'd be trapped over there. He's not a fairy. He doesn't just poof over here.

Cristina: No.

Jack: So then what would the point of making a bunch of Jesuses be if it wasn't for the fact that people were having visions of him? What you accomplish, guys? Like, what's the ta da?

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: So what's Jesus minus the annoying part?

Cristina: What was any of us? What was the next thing? And then the next thing? And then the next thing was the goal, Right? Yeah. Well, okay, was that experiment over now?

Jack: I don't know. Because if. If that's the real question, then the question is, then why do we do it?

Cristina: Do what?

Jack: Why Is there an iPhone 15? Why do we now have electric cars when we had carriages? Why didn't we stop at carriages? Why do we go to the next thing?

Cristina: And how do we know when to stop?

Jack: How do we know when to stop? So we make androids that work perfectly. Real androids? Tesla androids look like people now. But wait. Inefficient. We gotta keep getting fuel. What if they could just eat. Okay, so how do we get it to fuel itself organically? Well, if we can replicate all of our physiological systems, then in theory we can have a completely indistinguishable structure. And it's like. That's for no reason.

Cristina: That's for.

Jack: I just landed us at how we would get to.

Cristina: Yeah, what they got to for no reason.

Jack: I took a stair and there was no goal. That's how easy it is to get there. If you're just following science. That's how easy we just stumbled it.

Cristina: The end of the day, it's just scientists Being scientists.

Jack: But then the question is, what the is Elfame scared of? That's where it gets sketchy. That's where it gets weird. If at some point everybody looks like they're hiding from something, you look at them long enough, they're scared of something.

Cristina: What is.

Jack: And the problem is, we also have the least amount of information of Elfim, in that order. Elfame. The least shadow. Very shaky little.

Cristina: We know fairies can die. Could the world be destroyed? It doesn't feel like anyone can go in there. I don't know how.

Jack: It doesn't feel like anybody could get there except Joseph.

Cristina: Yeah, I guess. I don't know. I don't know.

Jack: There's something huge missing. The problem is how little information we get from Elfin.

Cristina: Yeah, that's really what it comes down to.

Jack: D***. I guess the first episode of next year is gonna have to be the continuation of this.

Cristina: What?

Jack: There is some more recap to go. We're fair enough. Open the year on the ring.

Cristina: That works. Okay. Okay, that's pretty good.

Jack: Some more to go. But I like these summaries because they make us think about things, they inform us, discover things, and seeing it all together changes perspective. And it's going to tell us what to look at next collectively.

Cristina: Awesome.

Jack: Anyways, if you guys want to tell us what you think of any of this or any of the episodes from this year or how weird this show has gotten.

Cristina: Can you see some kind of connection that we cannot see?

Jack: Send us a message to tell us about it. Just convopod everywhere. All the platforms X and TikTok and Instagram and Facebook.

Cristina: Remember to subscribe, rate and review the show.

Jack: Yes. And word of mouth is the most overpowered thing that has ever existed in the history of humanity. So use it. Tell people about the show.

Cristina: This has been the rambling podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening.

Jack: Bye. You're like, wait, how the h*** did somebody across the ocean mention exactly the same thing using the same exact words? What the f***? Wait, how is the story of Jesus obviously corrupted in the Bible? But if you were to just connect the individual pieces of narrative from all the places he was allegedly at, they don't match what's in the Bible. This is something entirely different. Because the Bible's trying to brainwash everybody. They don't expect anybody to go to the f****** Source and be like, hey, what do you personally have on this?

Cristina: What's the source?

Jack: The Source is the countries. Bethlehem and Nazareth and Cyprus and the people who were in these locations and the prophecies left behind, which are left in hieroglyphs and in old writings. All the things we found that are telling us about this. It's a bit absurd how much of.

Cristina: This is infinite and oddly connected. Yeah. Good morning. Good morning. This podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by great dots.info art by 0lupo and logo by Seth McAllister, with social media managed by Amber Black.

Rambling 254: Necromancy

Why were sorcerers interested in figures like Jesus Christ and King Arthur? Why are figures like Jesus Christ and King Arthur interested in sorcerers? And why is everyone else scrambling to come face to face with them? The duo deep dive into Sorcerers, but more specifically Necromancy.

+Episode Details

  • Ancient Technology
  • Portals
  • Controlling Shadow Energy
  • Remote Controlled Devices
  • Astral Magic

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod

Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod

Instagram - https://instagram.com/justconvopod


+Transcript

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I am your host, Jack.

Cristina: I am your host, Christina.

Jack: And this is the show where we ground humanity. Most absurd and baffling ideas. And then thunder.

Cristina: And that's thunder.

Jack: Sure. Yeah. And you hear the screen flashes for people who are watching, for the people who are tuning in on space satellite on space tube.

Cristina: They can't just be watching us on YouTube.

Jack: How are they gonna watch us on.

Cristina: YouTube on our channel?

Jack: Oh, I. I guess in theory they're watching a screen that just. I mean, some people probably do that. I bet there's somebody, at least one human somewhere that shows up, sits in front of a YouTube screen, tunes into a podcast that does not have a visual element, clicks a video, and then sits down and just stares at the screen until the show's over.

Cristina: There's no way.

Jack: How is that any different than somebody who just sits and listens to music for a long period of time? Or somebody who sits.

Cristina: You're not looking at a screen to do those things. No one puts on a screen to listen. If they are, they're reading the lyrics. They're not just watching a blank screen playing music.

Jack: Fair enough. Fair enough. Fair enough. Is. Is nothing happening on the screen? It's a question. Because if there was an equalizer, then at least the argument is there's an equalizer.

Cristina: Okay, that's a little different. I guess that would make sense if someone's watching it or not.

Jack: I say equalizer. Visualizer. You know what I mean?

Cristina: Really watch it.

Jack: It's like a background art thing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Which is cool, I guess. That's such a futuristic thing that I think we under appreciate.

Cristina: It's like, what's the music that they have? Like live music. Study too. Study two in on YouTube. Like they always have that girl. Yes. Loy with a girl on her computer with a cat. And it has a little animation that's super simple that just plays over and over and over again, but you're not really focused on it. Yeah, it's just there.

Jack: But these visualizations aren't necessarily absolutely aimless. Some of them transform and move to the beat and the texture of the music that's playing and their shape moves accordingly. It's not just random shapes. These higher quality ones actually move to the beat. It's not like these loafy beads.

Cristina: What are you saying our podcast is like that?

Jack: I don't even know what I was saying was like that. Our podcast no.

Cristina: Music that has the videos that are. That. For people to watch that aren't actually looking at lyrics or an actual video.

Jack: Oh, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Our YouTube thing is essentially that.

Cristina: Which is. What's it called?

Jack: What is. Wait, I'm so confused.

Cristina: I'm like the thing that's. They're watching. Following the voices or music.

Jack: The visualizer.

Cristina: Oh, that's what it's called? Yes, that's what I'm asking.

Jack: Okay. The visualizer is like the anomalous shape of colors. You know what I'm talking about? That's on a screen in like, let's say it's early 2000s. You have. We're still before the big transition to everybody's own smartphones. And you have a. Either a desktop that's old or a laptop that's new. One or the other is occurring. And you have a bunch of music. Music stolen from some website that you downloaded them from, or you went to a music store, downloaded them, and burned them on to a music player so you could hear them through your computer without having to put the CD in, maybe some collection of sorts. And you play them through the player. The player always had the option where you hit the thing and then boom. There's a weird thing with colors, right? And it morphs and shapes and does all this.

Cristina: Didn't one of the PlayStations have that?

Jack: Did it? Like PlayStation 3, maybe 2. Really, 2? Oh, I don't even know. D***. I don't know. But maybe. Absolutely. I don't. I Bet the current PlayStations all had them and have them. This never really looked, but I bet that's the thing. Yeah, for sure. And like, there are very complicated ones that move with the music. So I don't even know what my point was, but our show, they could go watch our show and sit down. So I guess. Oh. My point was that somebody would. Couldn't. Can in theory, sit down and watch something like that, but then they're technically still watching something happen. So if you want, in theory, you can just play the episode with a visualizer that syncs to it. Yes, that's weird because of our voices, but you're essentially seeing an anomalous blob speak to you, and it sounds like many people having a conversation. That's cool. Futuristic, least speaking.

Cristina: Weird, but okay.

Jack: Mm, very strange. But now I'm very intrigued. An anomalous blob that plays a podcast to you through a screen fire.

Cristina: Yeah, Maybe someone does that.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: F*** it, why not? Cool as H***, anyways, totally related to that absolutely relevant bit of information. We have lately been looking at a bunch of different things.

Cristina: Always.

Jack: As always. And so I'll tell you where this really begins. This is going back in time flashback to the year 1974 when it was.

Cristina: Raining that far away.

Jack: Can you imagine like out of all these timelines we've spoken that are up to several million years back so far that I'm like a long time ago and I'm like 1970. Yeah.

Cristina: So weird. Also was there you said Raining Men.

Jack: It was Raining Men.

Cristina: Does that song come out in that year or something?

Jack: No, but I was hoping I totally guess and got it right. So maybe it did. I actually have no idea. I Bet that's an 80s song though.

Cristina: Oh okay.

Jack: I bet that's late 80s, early 90s. I'm not entirely sure.

Cristina: It's 1930-1983-1983-1983.

Jack: I am off by nine years. Nine years.

Cristina: The people that sung it were called the Weather Girls. Where all their songs like themed.

Jack: Oh my God. The Weather Girls. Okay. So chances are they made. They became famous for that one song. And then because that's impossible to sustain their popularity immediately died following.

Cristina: It's Raining Men was on their third album.

Jack: Yeah. So they made a one hit way later and then they made music after.

Cristina: So you're saying they weren't called the Weather Girls before they got that song to be famous?

Jack: Oh s***. I see your point. I see your point. Yeah yeah, yeah. Cuz they had. The good ideas would have come at the beginning or at least the second album. Right. Because you have the first album when you're trying to figure it out. The second album you hit your note and your third album is your decline or your masterpiece. One of the other. I guess I could have been the masterpiece. Who knows? But one song. I don't know any other song from that album. And I don't think anybody in history has ever heard any other song from that album.

Cristina: Probably not. Probably not.

Jack: Do they have a fan base? Would be the question. Anyways. Anyways. Anyways. We gotta go back to the year 1912.

Cristina: Because.

Jack: I was trying to learn what we could about wizards. As you know we've been.

Cristina: We.

Jack: We cross paths with the lady of the Lake and we cross paths with Fae La Fay. Morgan Le Fay.

Cristina: I don't know who that is.

Jack: The chick who helped our King Arthur out.

Cristina: Oh yeah.

Jack: And so we're crossing paths with those people and we cross paths with. Actually I guess the lady of the Lake doesn't matter. Merlin.

Cristina: Merlin's the only one that matters. If you're talking about wizards, like.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Oh, that other lady was a witch or something.

Jack: Yeah, she was some s*** like that. Some real overpowered thing or a fairy or a fair. Yeah, it's kind of unclear at this point.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But I was wondering what the significance. We were talking about this, right? About a couple of things that in the last like two episodes really stuck out. And one of the things that stuck out was about the, like, what is up with these people's obsession with King Arthur? Fairies and sorcerers and all these other people. There's something beyond what we're understanding. Because if it's just some s*** that one of them made, we'll make another one. Something is actually special about Arthur. Cuz they're all behind Arthur. Yeah. If it was that much of an issue, do it again. Unless it was very energy consuming, the cost for making him is very difficult.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Which, like, what the h*** does that mean? Don't you guys live infinitely long times? Isn't this not worth your energy?

Cristina: I don't know. Are people just made from stones though, or like, like what made him?

Jack: Arthur.

Cristina: Yeah. He wasn't used with the stone, was he?

Jack: No. I actually have no clue how this man was made, but he's eventually gonna die of old age anyway, so it didn't matter. But anyways, yeah. So I'm looking, I. I see this fact that the sorcerers overpowered then and. And I'm looking like, okay, equal to Jesus. Look at Jesus. And he was also surrounded by his team. Wasn't of these people who were sorcerers of any sort. They got their abilities seemingly from Jesus. His lessons and things. He would provide and give to his people so they could be more like him and use his abilities.

Cristina: Were they using his abilities?

Jack: Yeah. Apostles had ability to heal and stuff.

Cristina: That wasn't from adrenochrome. I think that was from.

Jack: I believe those are the teachings that they got. Yeah.

Cristina: Oh, okay. That makes sense.

Jack: But on top of all that, Jesus did have people that were assumed to have witchy abilities, like the presumed he hung out with and individuals like that. And it's like, okay, so if this is true with King Arthur, then curiously, Jesus also had this thing. But what's true in every one of these cases, with the exception of La Fay, is that he seeks them out. It looks like he seeks them out at least.

Cristina: Who is he that's seeking them out?

Jack: Jesus and Arthur. They seek the individual out, but actually there was always something pulling them in the direction of this sorcerer, in the case of Magdalene, it was not that he was being manipulated through narrative, as far as we know, but it was that he was being drawn to that area to help, to assist the way he usually does. So some bigger, greater calling still took him straight to Mary, who suspected to be a sorceress. And then you have Arthur, who goes straight to Marlon because of a narrative.

Cristina: That he was writing, because of who.

Jack: He is, he had to do this thing the same way Jesus, because who he is, he had to go assist, he had to go help. He had to provide who he is to this person. Arthur had to provide who he is, is. And this in both instances, lands them in front of an individual that has an everlasting impact on their life and seems to always be present beyond that point. That's interesting. Almost like the whole point was to cross paths. So I'm like, okay, we gotta look after coming to that conclusion. Because I'm like, okay, I know that these two guys are kind of the same. And then I start looking at these comparisons because I'm just looking at them back and forth. Sorcerers, one and the other. What does this mean? What does this mean? And I come to that conclusion like, okay, the sorcerers are what matters. This is really weird. I got to look at this. So I start looking at sorcerers in general, mythologies across the world. And as I'm looking through sorcerers, hundreds, thousands of different kinds of sorcerers, scrolling, looking for a bunch of different types of magic abilities and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. One seems to show up in this culture. And then I keep moving and shows up in that one. And then I keep moving and shows up in that one.

Cristina: And the same wizard person thing.

Jack: No, not the same wizard. The same word. Which keeps showing up as I'm looking for different. I'm looking for different types of magic, allegedly, which we all know as different technologies, which is very interesting, by the way, because this might be one of the closest times I've ever been to deciphering when thing is in fact a like it's almost directly told to us based on how they describe it. But I'll get to that point in a second. The word necromancy kept showing up. And we have people magic. Yes, 100%. And we have a basic understanding of what necromancy is. Everybody has an idea. And that's the same. That very idea, what you just said. That's the idea we all have about what necromancy really is. We think it's just magic about dead people.

Cristina: Isn't it?

Jack: Well, we're gonna find out. Because that came up so frequently that I started to look towards that direction primarily. And as I started to look towards that direction primarily and started to leave behind the wizards, I stumbled upon a huge distinction between all wizards and sorcerers of all sorts. And then necromancers. Necromancers are apparently mentioned and used, addressed again, one of these words that at this point I'm just translating anything that seems to come after any pattern because it's one of these words that seemed irrelevant at the beginning, like just something that doesn't apply. And as I'm going through it and see this, the context makes sense in a bunch of texts we've been reading before. And it's essentially necromancy mentioned in a bunch of languages. Keep in mind I just go back to the sources we've had before, because that's what I'm trying to unravel further and further and further. So I end up coming across a fact that necromancy has been mentioned in front of us over and over and over and over and over. So I'm like, okay, no, f*** the rest of this information. I'm gonna look at whatever necromancy is specifically. That's where the value is. Because that's what this show's about, unraveling humanity's most absurd ideas. Anyways. So now the main purpose becomes about finding out. It left being finding out about Merlin and these individuals and became finding out about ne necromancy.

Cristina: What did you learn? Now is this about specific people?

Jack: No. Okay, so necromancy basics. This is the window into necromancy. Basic things to know. The very first individual that discovered necromancy. Not discovered. The first mention, rather ever of necromancy. Happens to be in by the Greek.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And it was mentioned 2,700 years ago. That is the first mention of necromancy that we have on record written. There are stories.

Cristina: Wait, when you were talking about going, we're gonna go back in time to 1970, that had nothing to do with anything.

Jack: That time was completely random and relevant. Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. That had no, no real world value of any sort.

Cristina: All right.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was just the time I picked out of a hat in 1980. I said 84. I think 1974. But 1984 is when that thing came out.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: No, it came out in 83 because it was nine years off. I said 74. Yeah, whatever. Anyways, so necromancy basics first found. The first found writing that directly use the word necromancy. Is by the Greek. It was written 2, 700 years ago. The first altered version of the word, something that means it, but is not exactly. Necromancy was used shortly thereafter. And there seems to be nine, 10 different versions of this word, spelling and enunciations, none of which I'm gonna bother with because the word necromancy is all we need to know.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The very earliest recorded use of it is by Circe, which is a known collaborator of Zeus, which as we know, is the leader of the individuals in the Greek gods collective of individuals.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: So. And weirdly enough, this mention is not even being brought up by the GRE getting this information specifically, which is the first mention of it being the first to mention it were the Greek. But the first time that Cersei that it was used was Circe, and that was from an Egyptian text, apparently.

Cristina: This doesn't make sense.

Jack: Yeah. So a Greek God being mentioned in an Egyptian text with an E. Egyptian man. There's a random. Or maybe he's not random, but whatever. Well, he didn't do anything miraculous there. And he. They basically just doing a. Solving a problem. And they use some necromancy to gather information by talking to a dead thing.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: And yeah, so an Egyptian.

Cristina: So they wakes like a dead person up, get some answers and then that dead person stays dead?

Jack: Yes, he's an Egyptian man. He travels to Circe, the Greek God and asks for assistance with this. And Circe then brings up the dead man and allows the Egyptian man to get the answer to his question and so on.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Fire.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Simple, simple details happening. Nothing too big.

Cristina: Is there a lot of necromancy and Egyptian culture and whatever.

Jack: It seems like the culture for it right there. It seems like the culture of death.

Cristina: Yeah. So I'm wondering if that also is part of it or no.

Jack: Apparently it was very huge in Egypt and it was very huge in Persia. Necromancy was ginormous.

Cristina: Why?

Jack: It was one. So the idea was that it evolved naturally from shamanism and all that kind of natural witchy stuff.

Cristina: But are they trying, like, what's the purpose though? Is it just to get answers? People say it's to speak to loved ones. Maybe. I don't know. I'm guessing. I don't know. What is it for? What is it used for mostly?

Jack: Well, as I keep continuing, I will explain those things. It is said that it can be used to communicate with the dead in the shadow realm, if that matters.

Cristina: That might matter, I'm not sure.

Jack: And it is said that it could bridge a small Temporary local gate to the Shadow Realm allowing passage.

Cristina: Was that random lawyer and his sister in Chennai just accidental necromancies? People like what. How are they accidentally walking? Are there accident? Like, are those gates there? Or can we just. We have to do it. Does someone have to make the gate? Because with Jesus it seems like you gotta make them.

Jack: I mean, same thing with Mount Kaf, Mount Athos. Same thing with El Castillo. They're all a stationary building or structure of some sort. Jesus has the most efficient one as far as we know, which is the Shinto Gate. But ultimately it's a fixed location.

Cristina: Yes, but I guess there could be random ones that are just naturally made. Right? Because that's how battlefields probably end up with a bunch of Shadow Realm creatures. It's those deaths creating the gates, leading the whatever, wolves or whatever coming 100%.

Jack: Although it's described as a form of magic, I believe that based on some of the descriptions that I came across, it that all. And the fact that all the other magic we've come across is technology as well, that this is definitely. This is definitely one of the most prominent descriptors of something being technology as far as we've come across so far.

Cristina: How so?

Jack: I'll explain in a moment. It does more than we might think as well, which was my initial idea into looking into this deeper. Because all of us believe that it's magic of raising the dead. But this portal part I did not know of. So refreshing what we know. Because now I'm curious. This is where at the point that I finally completely decided. I'm not even returning to the other crap. My next absolute focus is necromancy. Now, I wasn't just looking at the word. I've changed my mind about the subject I'm looking into now. Necromancy has become so complex, I need to look in deeper. Right?

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: So I do dive deeper and it opens wide. Wide. One of the most complex things I've looked at so far is necromancy. So we're gonna refresh what we know and then collapse into the rest of it. So first mentioned by some Greeks in some Greek writing. The first use of it, by the way, the Greek writing was 2,700 years ago. And there are stories that indirectly mention it that are much older. And There are about nine to 10 different words in Greek describing the same word after and before then. The first mention of it being used is by the Zeus known collaborator Circe and a. An Egyptian man who came to her for assistance. It is believed it could be used to Communicate with the Shadow Realm. And it is believed to bridge a small temporal local gate to the Shadow Realm, allowing for passage. Now, it allows the user to create an ethereal illusion, also defined as a hologram of a being in the Shadow Realm.

Cristina: Oh, like a ghost?

Jack: Like a ghost of somebody actually on that side. So you can talk to them physically. See them here. Can be used to control the will of Shadow Realm beings. This is fascinating, because this is suggesting that everything it does somehow interacts with the fabric of the Shadow Realm itself.

Cristina: It can control Shadow Realm people?

Jack: Yes, and minds of Shadow Realm creatures.

Cristina: Who made this?

Jack: I don't know.

Cristina: It seems really powerful.

Jack: Well, the person we actually have to look at is Cersei, because that's the first mention of somebody going to get help of. From. From somebody for this.

Cristina: But she working on Shadow Realm stuff. I know. Wait, does their team have Shadow Realm creature?

Jack: Greeks, yeah, they do. Forget who was their Shadow Realm thing.

Cristina: But yeah, they have a guy because that seems pretty crazy.

Jack: That's nuts, right? Ability to control the mind of Shadow Realm beings because their mind is made somehow different.

Cristina: You also can control dead people?

Jack: Well, it doesn't really say anything like that. I think they were just kind of assuming demons and creatures from the other side you could communicate, but it seems like they can just show you things from that side.

Cristina: But what about dead bodies here? Can't they do things to them?

Jack: You didn't come across any mention of anything like that?

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Yeah. It was more of like bringing stuff from that side over. So it seems like everything they're doing is actually just interacting with Shadow Realm energy.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Like, they don't do anything on this side at all that isn't part of connecting over there first.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Which becomes even more interesting in a moment. But this definitely leads us to be by far one of the most dangerous things we've ever seen. The ability to control Shadow Realm creatures will.

Cristina: That's insane.

Jack: That's nuts as h***. But apparently it always required the user to have an aid device.

Cristina: That's what they call it. What is it?

Jack: Well, it's a handheld control device of some sort or a small device worn as a necklace. Can be manually operated or voice operated.

Cristina: So it's actual tech. What?

Jack: As far as they know the descriptor words when you translate them and try to find out any possible description for what they might be. It's like the word we would say for knickknack. It's a little knickknack that he would fidget with in his hand. And a thing would happen. They would either have it in their hand or they would wear it around their neck. Like tribal wear was the most frequent comparison. And the knick knack around the neck, you would either have to again, manually do something with it or both. The one that you could just hold or the one that you wear have also been seen in such a way that you can voice activate them.

Cristina: What?

Jack: So a person has held it, not done anything, but spoken to it. And then things have happened and the same has occurred for the one on their necklace. And I'm like, these are out here at some savage a** tech, bro. Yeah, because like this just the descriptions, it breaks down to knickknacks and doodads. The descriptors that people use. The, the. The linguists and the scholars who write this down and give us the English versions that I don't trust. Say necklaces and pendants in a one to one. That is not the word. And then when you check, these people had words for necklaces and pendants. So why do they need this other word that translates to a different word from ours? It's like they don't understand what the gadget is, but they knew what the jewelry you're claiming they're saying is.

Cristina: Yeah, but they know it's not that they're not gonna say, it's that they're just like. It's this thing.

Jack: Yeah, exactly what it is.

Cristina: But it's a thing that they have.

Jack: Exactly. Little gadget, a little thingy. A thingy. They had thingy. And like that's the reality of what they was written down and what was said. There was a thingy. Should have the thing.

Cristina: Who made the thingy? The thingy come from fairies from sea people from Shadow Realm itself?

Jack: Don't know. I do not know. I do not know. That s***'s crazy. Now, personal portals aren't used between earthrealm and Shadow Realm because they are two linked realms and are sort of reflections of one another. Which creates an interesting problem where if a person is moving around on Earth Realm, the opposing side of the portal is also just moving around in the Shadow Realm. To solve this, there are stationary locations, strategically selected, where you can control where the other site is based on where the exit already is. In the Shadow Realm. Build one on one this side, build one on that side. Maybe it's safer for me to walk to Mount Koth on this side than it is for you to travel over there in the Shadow Realm and get murdered by that thing.

Cristina: Explain that again. What's happening?

Jack: Portals Cannot be. They're not usually used for individuals.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Yes. So portals aren't used between earthrealm and Shadow realms as an individual portal. Like personal portals, because there are two realms are linked and they're very similar and reflections of one another to some degree, which has odd effects. If a person is moving around a personal portal, you have a portable little device or something that could open a portal. You walking around means the other end of the portal is moving around in the shadow realm. So it's inefficient to know where the h*** you're gonna be.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Because it's random how it works.

Cristina: So then how do you do it exactly?

Jack: To bypass this. The things built were stationary. El Castillo, Mount Ka, Mount Athos. Locations where you can cypress, where you can control. Because it's always there. It's always the same spot that didn't go anywhere. So the exit is always the same spot. You know where it's going. And again, maybe it's more beneficial for my civilization on this side. I have 15 miles of nothing but safety between here and Mount Ka, but you on your side have 10 miles of a h*** in the same direction. So it doesn't make sense for me to make the portal close to me and then you got to travel those 10 miles and die and never be able to get to me. When I could just make the thing in Mount Kaf and it shows up a little farther, but that's right in front of you in the Shadow realm and you could just jump in front so you could build it strategically because you always know where it is. That's the reason you don't have personal portals. You'd have to beat the the system of the personal portal. The problem of the personal portal, because you can't control the exit if you move, the exit moves because it's relative to where you open it.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Always an issue. Big problem. This is getting into granular details between the realms. So it's kind of heavy, almost sciency details about, you know, weird sci fi ideas. Now again, the bypasses giant civilizations made big things. El Castillo, stationary location. Mount Kopf, stationary location. Mount Athos, stationary location. Cyprus, stationary location. So how the h*** do does necromancy tech allow a person to move around with a personal portal and them actively know what's going to be on the other side if it violates a rule of physics, as far as we understand, between both realms? Well, I'll explain because I found that.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: What I just needed to explain how crazy complicated that issue really is.

Cristina: Yeah, but they Figured out, yes.

Jack: This is how advanced this is. These guys are breaking and you have.

Cristina: No hints of how it happened. Who started this?

Jack: I have no idea who started this. This is one of the big ones. I'm starting to piece this apart. I just found so much crap. It was just endless. So in the future we might figure it out. Yeah, yeah. This might be one of the biggest pieces we've been missing that we didn't even know to ask for. Because also in all the writings from everybody, everybody had a story of somebody going to a necromancer for assistance. That was always a desperate last, worst case scenario to go to a necromancer. But it was like, oh, everything else failed. We still can do this. Which means like, holy how op is that? That no matter what. Oh, we got the backup plan.

Cristina: It's a black backup plan. Dangerous.

Jack: Somehow though, something is dangerous about it and I don't understand what it is. Perhaps it's the interacting with the shadow realm aspect of it. I don't know.

Cristina: Maybe because maybe you could attract something you don't wanna.

Jack: I think the. Yeah, I think a lot of the ideology framing around it is that you got to understand that the people who were describing a lot of these things were primitive and were not really comprehending. So perhaps this is literally what they thought was the case. The shadow realm is not of intelligent beings, but monsters and demons. And if I fiddle with that, then monsters and demons will follow me home. Because again, they are thinking of the shadow realm as nothing but primitive, ignorant. But it's more or less the same.

Cristina: But they don't know that. Like the whole Halloween thing that we talked about before, kind of similar. That people were afraid of them coming out.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: They just wanted their relatives.

Jack: Yes. But they're actually right. There were some crazy. There are crazier things out there, but it's no crazier than creatures we have. And the same way you'd have to sort of mess up an attractor because you can go camping, it'll be fine. You are not attractive to a bear. But if you start leaving food around and you're reckless that you're told not to. Now you start attracting a bear. The same thing applies to everything. You can do the wrong thing and attract the wrong thing. And this applies to every creature.

Cristina: But people are afraid of wild animals equally. Of like going in the woods and running into a bear. That's equally scary probably than summoning some creature that's gonna.

Jack: Yeah, but it doesn't lead you to believe that all creatures on Earth Are just wild animals, which is essentially what a lot of people believe about the shadow realm. It's just a place of evil and darkness and nothing more. But no, there's people there. Just people. It's just a different thing that happened and developed somehow. Yeah. Before us. We're essentially a product of that, if anything. But I found solutions to this problem. They explain how it works. There are entire breakdowns dating far, far back Explaining how this thing works. So these are some of the explanations that actually elaborate on the technology, the literal technological aspects. And it should make so much sense.

Cristina: Okay, so.

Jack: So this is how this essentially happens. A bridge for communication or passages open through a higher realm referred to as the astral realm. Now, astral realm, I'm like, what the is this?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: No. I then bounce that in and start pulling, like, other words, other words. Somebody's gonna say something I've seen before.

Cristina: What did you find?

Jack: Well, the celtics equivalent of astral realm comes out to a world of magic, which you then take magic and find all the other Celtic words that match it. And fae and elfame and fairy are the other words associated with that same thing.

Cristina: That's very complicated.

Jack: So then you look for the other mentions that directly just translate astral realm to just astral realm, but in that language without it being a different word entirely. And you look at the words surrounding them, and they are also talking about a world of magic.

Cristina: Who's working with fairy magic? Who figured it out?

Jack: I don't know. I don't know. Somebody figured it out. And it's secretive, as. It's more secretive than the entire complicated series of secrets that we've cracked to the point that now we're coming across.

Cristina: Magic to control shadow realm. Like, this isn't.

Jack: This is. Yeah, this is higher level.

Cristina: So it basically, this is what people are afraid of. The sea people. We're figuring out that this is gonna end up being somehow related to the sea people. Yeah, we know they're powerful and the fairies are afraid of them. And the shadow realm are afraid. It like, come on.

Jack: Yeah, this is next level, right?

Cristina: Using fairy magic to control shadow realm creatures. How insane.

Jack: It's heavy. It's heavy. This is next level, man. This is next level. If that's the case, then the level at which we're grading the Elysians based on the Kardashev scale is wrong. Because you got to understand that we would need to pass quite a couple of stages before we get to the shadow realm. If we're talking scale wise, planet is first. That's One star is two. Oh, no. All the star. Right. All of the planet is one. No, all planet is. Yeah, I think all planet. All the energy of the planet. All the energy of the first star. That's number two. All the energy of the entire of a galaxy is number three. All the energy of a universe is number four. In between number four and number five, you should be able to create, manipulate, alter, and destroy universes. Which means you should be capable to be equal to things within that universe. In this case, as strong as something in the shadow realm that can make something like we are. That means that the Elysians aren't number two.

Cristina: No.

Jack: Elysians have somehow.

Cristina: They might be number one. They might be over fairies.

Jack: No, no, no. Not. Not ranked wise. I mean, on the Kardashev scale, instead of. They're four.

Cristina: Four. Okay. What's number five?

Jack: Number five would have to be the multiverse. You'd be able to control multiverses.

Cristina: Okay. We don't know that they're not there, though.

Jack: We don't know. The scale continues to grow and they're the most likely culprit for what's going on here.

Cristina: Okay, this is insane. Because, like, then what? What? And then they're afraid of Jesus.

Jack: We don't know that.

Cristina: Insane.

Jack: We don't know that.

Cristina: And they don't.

Jack: Like, they're trying to keep Jesus from them. And Jesus has ability with just knowing stuff. Jesus has some Santa Claus properties.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: You know, he just knows stuff. So it's problematic. They need to be able to keep things away from a guy who just knows stuff. Something about what they're doing.

Cristina: They don't want everyone else to know the stuff that they know. Like, why would they want everyone to have this necromancy abilities, especially the shadow people. Like, I don't know. This is pretty big.

Jack: Yeah, this is pretty huge. It's pretty nuts.

Cristina: He just knows it. He could just share his secret even if he didn't know it. Know it. Like just looking at a book randomly and just sharing that knowledge with everyone by accident. Like that's what he does. And they're afraid of that.

Jack: Okay, so let's go over this again. The bridge for communication or passage is opened through the astral realm, AKA Elfhame, and to the shadow realm. It's through Elfame and to the Shadow Realm.

Cristina: Ridiculous.

Jack: This is a bypass for the problem they have of a moving exit point of a moving point B because you're moving at point A Song. So how it works by bridging through the higher realm the entry and exit points meeting in this higher realm. Elfame can be fixed or tied together so that they seamlessly go from one to another like a tube.

Cristina: I think fairy trees have to do with this.

Jack: 100%.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: They totally have to bring that.

Cristina: Because we know those might be dead fairies. Maybe. We don't really know. The guess is dead fairies.

Jack: Yes. This is. Yeah. I feel.

Cristina: I feel they're connected to murdered fairies. They have the fairies to make these special. Whatever you want to call them. Plants. Which not might be plants at all, but some other tech that links the three already. These might have to do with the bridge.

Jack: Yeah. And no. We know that they've been working on portals for the longest too. Yes, we know they've been working on portals. And we didn't know. We thought was just for them to get from one to another. Tricks, bro. There's tricks out there. And they were trying to figure out some tricks or did figure out some tricks. And we're piecing together. It reminds me of this game. It's a lot like what's happening with this. All the research we're doing. It's called. It's a game like a PlayStation game. And there's really tiny planets and there's a time loop happening. And you're trying to figure it out. And as you go through the time loop, you understand the time loop more. And. And you just try to find out the history of this time loop and the world surrounding it.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Outer world or outer wilds or something like that. Wow. And how we continue to find information feels like that. Because it's out of sync. A lot of time. It's out of order. But again, based on the chronology of these events, the first couple of events having it are way beyond the first couple of stones being made, but before Jesus in a nice warm spot. This also serves to make sense as to why things like Joseph the golem and things like Arthur were easier to make. Because it was way better abilities happening way before that we didn't come across and are probably way more secretive.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: But bridge cut through the top part of a realm. Not top of part of a room, but a higher realm. By bridging through the higher realm, the entry and exit can be linked to each other. So either be in really close proximity or tied together. Because you can fix them in this higher realm. You cut through here with one half of the tube and you fix the exit that enters from Earth to the. To Elfhame. You fix the Elfame exit because it's not connected to your Movements.

Cristina: No, it's connected to those trees.

Jack: Yeah. It's somehow stationary. And then you grab the end that comes out of Elfame into the Shadow Realm and you fix that stationary. Now you can make these two completely stationary and they won't move. Tie them to each other. Now, the point that you have in the Shadow Realm isn't moving when you move in Earth Realm. Thus completely shattering the original problem of not being able to move the portal because the destination would move with it. Boom. Necromancy technology. Solving problems at higher thinking.

Cristina: It was very magic.

Jack: Very magic. That's elevated thinking and that's fire. Which that's crazy because it does allow for the simultaneous use of both insane.

Cristina: Are we sure these aren't fairies themselves? Somehow I don't understand. How is it happening? How are they using fairy tech like this?

Jack: I don't know what to tell you, man. Additionally, there have been teachers of this information, but the circumstances. And there have been. There's a few teachers, five total in the last 5,000 years that starting roughly about 3,100 BC to about now.

Cristina: Are they fairies?

Jack: Don't know. It's unknown who they are. They just barely get mentioned. Always relative to necromancy and being teachers of necromancy. Because I'm just doing a massive search for anything relative.

Cristina: So is there no description of these things?

Jack: There's no. No, there's not. Nothing. Nothing about them. Just a couple of the roughest of details. So the teachers of Necromancy exist throughout the centuries. Obviously there are five spread out. It's unclear where in time there are. They're placed.

Cristina: Really?

Jack: Yeah. Exactly where in time they're placed. I just know where the latest is. And the earliest was about a thousand years ago. But it's like.

Cristina: And locations. Then you don't know where?

Jack: No. I can tell you the cultures that mention them, but it's unclear where these people venture out of where they live far off to go learn it.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: They always go to some. The only one we know for sure is the one in Greece, which is Cersei. Outside of that, everybody else ventures off to some other mystic place super far away to go learn the thing.

Cristina: Okay. Okay.

Jack: So it's always vague. It's always anonymous. It's always in West Bubba. Everybody has the same thing. They go on a quest that eventually leads them to be blinded or to lose consciousness or something. So they don't know where they are and they wake up in a place that they cannot leave. And then they either get the information or get the.

Cristina: It's so Crazy because Jesus was definitely had this power.

Jack: Yeah. And this feels like an abduction, which we've discussed before as well. Being very like just elation abducting people. Because like you're just traveling and you go blind or you pass out and then you wake up in a place you can't escape, where you learn this knowledge and then you come back from that with it. Like what the f*** is that?

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: Sounds crazy. And you learn it from some anonymous higher intellect. So how much higher are they?

Cristina: Enough to think they're aliens?

Jack: Enough to be beyond the scope if they're. Again, if they're controlling shadow creatures, how the. The leap, the technologic leap between where we are and where that would be. And not just where we are and where that would be, but where the Elysians would be or where we thought they were and where they would have to be is still so colossal. We're not talking two, three stars. We're not talking the great void. We're talking. That's ancient old garbage to them, this tech. The Great Void. Oh, the great Void. Completely vacant black spot in space of millions of entire galaxies. Fully dark because all their stars are trapped inside of Dyson spheres. That is just ancient technology by comparison to what it seems like the Elysians are capable of doing. And it's absolutely possible they're out here in the shadows teaching people how to do these things.

Cristina: Why?

Jack: Yeah, why? But of these very few details, they all mentioned the same almost requirements that the people had to have in order to go in to these practices to begin with. Otherwise they would be okay. They wouldn't even be considered. And people were rarely considered at all. There was a whole process. Eliminate. If you think Yu Yu haka show you think the bunch of people who had to fight just to get Guinan's interest. And only two of them would train with her and. Or one of them maybe. I think Yusuke was the only one who's gonna train with her. And then she made an exception for Kubara or whatever the f*** the case may be. But essentially that, oh it's a legendary somebody who does whatever. The legendary, blah blah blah.

Cristina: But involved blood.

Jack: I don't know. Very unclear. That's the point. We're back to crazy amounts of secrecy.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: That we barely know anything about. And I'm sure beyond this point information is going to start breaking down. If we start entering level four on Kardashian scale tech. I guess it's gonna fall apart quickly. But they all had the same requirements, which is a series of knowledge and disciplines required to then become just considered. And you're probably going to be rejected. To then be mentored by whoever the f*** these random nobodies are to get the abilities, or at least the opportunity to. Here's the offer. Try your best. You know. So. So they must know Latin. Anybody who did not know Latin had to start studying Latin. Didn't know how to read. Not happening for you.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: We're talking long ago. Learn Latin. You have to learn Latin. If you do not know Latin, you must study Latin, because one, the teachers will only communicate to you in Latin, and two, although people have translated their works, in the more modern cases I've come across, they will not allow you to use that. Okay. They must be familiar with the technical specs and inner workings of Elysian technology.

Cristina: Are you positive? Does not make sense.

Jack: That ain't even it. Because they must also be familiar with Shadow Realm technology.

Cristina: What is happening? There's more.

Jack: They must also be familiar with Elfame technology.

Cristina: How? How's that even possible? How can a person just know about those three things? And these are human beings that are chosen because this makes no sense.

Jack: I don't know of anybody who's been chosen. I know of people who go to the trials.

Cristina: Okay?

Jack: I don't know if anybody.

Cristina: There's no way anyone passes this.

Jack: I don't know of anybody who becomes one of these things other than Cersei. Everybody else is extremely anonymous.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it's really complicated to come across anything.

Cristina: Okay. Okay.

Jack: Yeah. It's absolutely absurd. And the last one is, you must be familiar with the Philosophy of Usage. This phrase threw me so off that I have no idea what to do with it. I looked this up a million different ways and in a million different places. The Philosophy of Usage. Weirdly enough, I found it over and over, but a lot of the times I found the Philosophy of Usage I found by itself, like, as a. Like you finished a paragraph, there's just empty space, and then it just says, the Philosophy of Usage.

Cristina: Understand?

Jack: I don't either. There's no context to help me find what the f*** that means. Obviously, we're talking the translated text, but when you find out. Okay, translate this to that language, mass search the entire document. Where does this show up? Random bottom of a page. Nothing else with it. Okay. Read everything else on the page. Translate all that. Okay. Unrelated to the random one line. The Philosophy of Usage.

Cristina: What does that mean?

Jack: You must be familiar with the Philosophy of Usage, be able to communicate in Latin and be familiar with earthrealm. Shadow Realm and Elfame Tech in order to simply be considered. And then you might still be rejected. And also, I don't know where the h*** these people go. It's very clear that it's somewhere way the f*** out there somewhere. And they know of somewhere. They don't know where. And they know that I gotta find it. That's the quest. I gotta go find it. And they do. But it's also very vague. And they're always there suddenly.

Cristina: Does it have to do with the passage of usage? I want to know what that is.

Jack: The philosophy of usage.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: I don't know. I don't know what the that means. I don't know. I don't know what the h*** any of this is. This is crazy. Somebody just broke. Breaks a hole or knows how to bridge through energy in Elfheim. That's crazy for several people. Or it might be the same guy.

Cristina: I don't know. Is he related to fairies?

Jack: And exists through quite a large period of time in some of the most recent of these things that we have seen. With exception for things like a new.

Cristina: Crazy idea about the. What are those sea people called again? What are we called?

Jack: The Elysians.

Cristina: The Elysians. They are somehow fairies. Maybe we know the Shadow Realm God made them, but maybe he made them based on fairies.

Jack: I don't think he manually went out of his way and made them specifically based on how the story goes. It looks a lot like the existence of man as the older ape. Or not man. I guess not man, because this weren't man. But the Elysians in their primitive state, that was just natural development. Okay, like, he showed up. No, he did meddle with them. Fair enough. He didn't meddle with the apes, then leave, then show up after they'd advanced enough and then spoken with them. But he didn't make them. He just meddled with existing creatures.

Cristina: Well, you don't know how he meddled with them. Like, did he give them fairy blood? We don't know.

Jack: Yeah, it just says that he altered their DNA.

Cristina: Yeah, I'm wondering if maybe with some fairy DNA. I don't know how, but he knows a lot about fairies that we don't know. He knows a lot about. A lot that I don't understand.

Jack: Who this necromancer?

Cristina: Whoever this person is the leader of the Shadow Realm. The ones that made the.

Jack: Oh, you mean the elders. The, like, ancient ones, like Al and Susan.

Cristina: Yes, whoever made them. Whoever made all of us.

Jack: Oh, you mean the sh. Yeah, the Shadow Realmers who made the Earth Realm?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Like Galdabaoth?

Cristina: Yes. Insane.

Jack: Yeah. That's some upscale power stuff. That. Because they're above the levels of the Shadow Realm, they're the top tier of that. And whoever these people messing with necromancy are. Are scary to those people.

Cristina: To what people?

Jack: To the top tier in the Shadow Realm based on this. Because they can just skip the Shadow Realm. You can abuse the Shadow Realm, be mobile and vanish at will. That's op.

Cristina: That is. How did they do it?

Jack: I don't know. I don't know. It's crazy. The fact that this. It was possible to piece together through enough different sources how this functions was really dumb. Nope.

Cristina: But what's that last thing? It doesn't make sense. You got no info on it? Not even tiny hint to what you can find?

Jack: I couldn't find anything on the philosophy of usage. I could find everything on the philosophy of usage of it's everywhere. I can't find anything on the philosophy of usage. As in it's never defined. It's always alone.

Cristina: Not even hinted at what it could possibly mean.

Jack: No. The only two contexts you see it in are when it's mentioned by itself, absolutely out of context, and when it's mentioned as a requirement for somebody about to take this trek. That's it. And they also don't clarify. So you know they don't know. You know they don't know. And a lot of people never get too far on the quest.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And the people who get really far on the quest usually don't make it. Anyone who make it really far on the quest and make it don't realize they make it. They're just there suddenly. Sort of like they still don't know where it is. Like they might have been close, but it could have been on the other side of Earthfall. You know, if you're getting f****** abducted.

Cristina: I guess I don't get it. Because it's the top three things than Latin for some reason, which feels like, okay, human.

Jack: No. All the most important.

Cristina: Then the philosophy. I don't know. It's haunting me. What could that mean? Is that like combining all four or something? You have to understand that you first have to know each thing and then how to combine each thing with each other. I don't know.

Jack: No, because there's a guy we know in the Shadow Gods team who knows how to merge Shadow tech. And by the way, we were talking about that guy becoming more important because we thought it was stupid that he was just picked up because he could merge the two techs or I did. And then you were like, it's about merging. And like. Yeah, exactly.

Cristina: This seems like. Yes.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, it's totally going. But you remember, right?

Cristina: He gets it.

Jack: That like tech merger.

Cristina: Yeah. He's in the Shadow Room though.

Jack: He's the Shadow Gods. Yeah, he's one of those dudes. So. I don't know. This is. It's been really twisting my head.

Cristina: That's very complicated. Where do you go from there? Can't even find what it is.

Jack: I don't know. I don't know. I gotta find what the h*** the philosophy of usage is. I gotta find out who the h*** these necromancers are that are teaching people or showing them or what? I don't know. I don't know.

Cristina: So uncle, where are they from? What are they?

Jack: Where are. Yeah, where are they? What are they? Ah, it'd be crazy if we came across a different group.

Cristina: Group. Oh my gosh.

Jack: Or rogue elves.

Cristina: No, that doesn't make sense. Or maybe rogue elves. Maybe more likely badass.

Jack: I hope it's rogue elves. You know how cool that is? There's.

Cristina: There has to be the snakes.

Jack: Yeah, there's rogue Naga. Oh, you think these are Naga helping people?

Cristina: Yeah, we have the rogue elves. They're Nagas.

Jack: Some of them are. You think there's some rogue fairies?

Cristina: Yes, fairies, elves. It's the same thing.

Jack: Elves aren't Naga.

Cristina: But they're fairies.

Jack: They're fairies. Yeah.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: They're like human looking.

Cristina: They're human looking. Oh, aren't the Nagas?

Jack: No, the Nagas are serpents.

Cristina: Sometimes serpents, sometimes humans.

Jack: Elves are made by Elfhame to push people's abilities down.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: I guess supervise her abilities.

Cristina: You think some of them are rogue?

Jack: I don't know what the h*** is going on. I have no idea what the f***. This s*** sounds so ridiculous. Every time we find some new scalar for power, it's more ridiculous than the last. And we've gone from simple people who are slightly more powerful and technologically advanced than the people surrounding them to. These people are potentially so strong that universal powers couldn't put a stop to them. Talk about Goku on some s***. That's the real world Goku.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Anyways, that is what I came up with when I dove in the direction of necromancy.

Cristina: Ridiculous.

Jack: Apparently it split open the whole schnozzle.

Cristina: There has to be something else. We have. There's more. There's definitely more.

Jack: There's always more.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: There's literally no end to this. It just gets deeper. And bigger and wider and huger and.

Cristina: Fatter and juicier and never makes any more sense.

Jack: Yeah, it makes. I mean that's what that's gonna happen. It's gonna get way more abstract the higher up we go. But unlike finding out about things from really really really really really really really really really long ago go, it seems way easier to track down multiple sources for things more recently because there's way more records on it. And even if they're super secretive, it's hard to erase absolute mention as more people know how to write as more people leave some evidence of a narrative.

Cristina: And do you think you'll find something Morisa?

Jack: Yeah, a bunch of this stuff. Although it started pretty late, necromancy was active as like with record until pretty recently. It's still used pretty frequently now. It was way active, not just way in the past. It was actually more scarce back then. It seems to have had a big moment in the middle ages and it seems to then again have had a pretty big moment in the 16 and early 1700s which that coincides perfectly when you think about that the early 1700s 1700s leads to the birth of Draco who is the guy who had the alicorn handed to him by the so like there's a lot of you know, the closer to now we get the more sources we find more people who will just again random just captain happen to jot down about the freaking Antonio Draco.

Cristina: Yeah but like weirdo on his boat.

Jack: Okay, yeah. As more people can just do that it becomes harder and harder to erase your existence. When you show up capture casually it's further back that it breaks down. I was trying to find out origin stories from El's time.

Cristina: Impossible.

Jack: Yeah, it becomes really difficult but instantaneously I can tell you that there were a couple within just last a thousand five hundred years.

Cristina: Okay, so you can talk more about that next time.

Jack: All right, we're sure. Anyways, if you guys want to leave us some info, some translations, some opinions, some ideas, some interpretations I suppose was more what I was aiming for for the information we have provided. You guys can do that on our socials. You can hit us up at just convopod on X, on Instagram, on Facebook.

Cristina: On TikTok and remember to subscribe and rate and review the show.

Jack: Yes. And this show is great to share by word of mouth. Be sure to go scream it at people and tell them hey, go listen to the rambling podcast and you will find out about the great secrets of the universe.

Cristina: This has been the Rambling Podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Bye.

Jack: California was down. They're like, whatever, dude. You can brainwash those people into anything. Just should have kept the tech in California. But no, you have to backtrack California because that got sloppy too. You pass the digital law. Cause that even the Californians were like.

Cristina: Bro, what's going on?

Jack: What the. Yeah, like, what the is going on? You just cool with kids being taken and then mutilated somewhere? What you need to an excuse to cause them to bleed? Well, we can. Oh, yeah, we can do these surgeries. Mastectomies, double mastectomies on children. Yeah, that makes sense. Totally. We can chop boy's p**** off. It makes total sense.

Cristina: That's for adrenochrome, too.

Jack: All of that gets you a hold of blood. You get to cut people open. You get to create incisions that blood is going to come out of. You have to keep them alive. Oh, you know, you need several surgeries. Thousands of children need several surgeries. Who knows the process that was taking place on the island? I am sure they weren't just killing the kids. That's not efficient. You feed them, you keep them horrified, you keep them alive, and you drain them consistently. A supply was the supply island. We need to somehow figure that system out again. They were like, oh, we're f****** gonna create a medical issue, or we take the children. What did they say? You could. Your. Your child protective services could take your children and they could put your child through the transitioning process.

Cristina: Good morning. Good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by Great Thoughts.info art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McCallister with social media managed by Amber Black.

Rambling 252: The Fragarach

Are there other weapons like Excalibur or the magic bow out in the world? Who is making them? For what purpose? The duo continue their search into magical fairy killing weaponry that’s existed throughout history. What they discover finally starts to shine some light on questions they have wondered the answer to for years!

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed:

  • The Fragarach
  • Magical Weapons
  • Nemedians
  • The Fir Bolg
  • Tautha De Danann
  • Fairy Trees
  • Manannan
  • Fomorians

Our Links:

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod

Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod

Instagram - https://instagram.com/justconvopod


+Transcript

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And this is a show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas. And today, on this most special of episodes, where we talk about some extremely unique, beautiful, deep, profound topic that dives deep into human nature and changes how we interact with each other as humans with a lot of technologic innovation and.

Cristina: What?

Jack: I don't know, I'm just throwing a bunch of buzzwords out there.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And hoping that it strings together into a coherent, very exciting sentence. How was I doing?

Cristina: You lost me at the end.

Jack: Yeah. Because. Yeah, man, it doesn't even make sense, right. When you have just a bunch of descriptors back to back to back without just getting to it. It's like, what? Well, what was it you were commenting on again? I forgot.

Cristina: What are you commenting on?

Jack: I have no idea.

Cristina: And.

Jack: Oh, on the absurd and crazy thoughts and whatnot and their absurdity and craziness and how much more. How much more absurd and crazy it is today than any other day. Even if I've said this every other day.

Cristina: How is it more crazy?

Jack: It's always more crazy.

Cristina: I don't know. I feel like we, we went to peak crazy when we were living on a zombie filled island with toilet paper.

Jack: That was, that was pretty, pretty up there. I remember those days. That was crazy.

Cristina: What's today about? What's today about?

Jack: Today is about. No, it's not even that crazy. Today is about. Well, we've been looking at a bunch of stuff, like things and junk. You know how we do.

Cristina: Like swords?

Jack: Yeah, literally like swords. Excalibur. But not just that. Focusing on things. And we actually in focusing, landed at fairies. Looking to see some fairies. And then we eventually found Nag and we looked at Naga and then we found out which of the Naga, one of them had a weapon. We were like, that's cool. That probably means there's more weapons. And I started looking at weapons and it turns out that King Arthur's story is not considered. Considered fiction literature. It is considered mythology. So I look into that and apparently that's mentioned everywhere and I had no.

Cristina: Clue, I thought my whole life that he had to find the sword, give the sword in to get the real sword. Nah, man.

Jack: I don't know why I thought this was literature. My whole life I really thought this was like a made up. And nobody, I didn't think people thought this was real. This happened. I thought it was just like. Oh, like, you know, Disney made up King Arthur or some like that. Or bare minimum, it's just a fiction from the 1700s that somebody wrote and everybody knew. Oh, yeah, the great story written by the guy over there, Bob, about King Arthur.

Cristina: Anyone who wrote a story back then was writing a story based on something that was happening, though. That's all lore. Everything comes from lore of what they thought was actually happening.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Everything we think of as fairy tales, every fairy tale was the thing they truly believe was happening to some degree. Yeah.

Jack: A lot of people really thought all this s*** was happening.

Cristina: So it's just one of those, like, werewolves.

Jack: Yeah. It was trying to reason away the logic of what was going on, but we know the logical is going on, which actually brings us to the point. So looking through these weapons that can in fact be special magic weapons, I come around the weapon called Fragarach. Awful, awful name. Fragarach. But the Fragarach is a sword.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And this sword is in Ireland. Snyder's sword.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And it's a very magical sword. It was given to the first High King of Ireland.

Cristina: Why? Who gave it to him? Oh, is this special?

Jack: His people gave it to him. It is special. It's a very special sword. Like all these magical swords, it itself possesses magical abilities.

Cristina: Fairy killing magic abilities.

Jack: Fairy killing magic abilities?

Cristina: Really?

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: But why?

Jack: That's what we're trying to figure out.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: So the Fragarach, the first High King of Ireland, was wielding the sword. And during the first battle of Mag, Taured with the fur, Bolga with the fear Bolg, the first High King of Ireland, Mauda, lost his arm. And he believes he is now incapable of being the leader. So he gives the sword that was given to him by his people. He gives that sword to one of the people who is with him now.

Cristina: So he could be the new king or something.

Jack: The new king temporarily, for the next battle. And after that battle, he makes it permanent. Okay. So I'll tell you some things about the sword. Specifically, the sword is unbreakable. The Fragarach is also a weapon that will regenerate the wielder.

Cristina: What does that mean?

Jack: Whoever's holding it, if they were to have damage, they would recover.

Cristina: But not like losing your arm.

Jack: I'm assuming that.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The user cannot be harmed. Which then brings into question how the h*** he lost his arm.

Cristina: That is very strange. Okay.

Jack: And it is allegedly capable of. Of killing fairies.

Cristina: There's something wrong because he still got her.

Jack: Yes. I'm assuming he got hurt. Well, he did get hurt in a battle, but he was using a spear.

Cristina: He's using spear.

Jack: He was using a spear. He wasn't using the sword.

Cristina: Okay. The sword was not swapped out.

Jack: What do you mean the sword was not swapped out?

Cristina: Like, what happened to King Arthur where he had the fairy killing sword and then he had a sword?

Jack: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. He just has this sword. He. It's made by his people.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: His people make this sword. He gets the sword, and the sword gives him all these crazy abilities, and.

Cristina: Then the whole carry. I don't. It still doesn't make sense because, like, how do they know who tested it out to say that it kills fairies?

Jack: We'll get there.

Cristina: Okay?

Jack: We're gonna find out why it believes to kill fairies.

Cristina: Okay. It's not just some random.

Jack: No, but anyways. Anyways, this made me look at who the h*** all these people involved with this sword in Ireland are. And so first, we needed to find out the lineage of these people. Well, not originally. We didn't have to find out the lineage. It's afterwards. In fact, you know what? I'm gonna give this to you in the order that I discovered it so that you can go through the same level of confusion I went through. Ultimately, the sword, the Fragarach, is being wielded by Naota as the king. Yeah. The first high King, Naota. And this is in the first battle of Magtorid for the part of Ireland they're fighting for. And Naota gets his arm cut off. And, you know, but they still win. They win the battle.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And they split the island between the guys and the bad guys, or whoever you want to call the good guys and bad guys, whatever. And.

Cristina: And he gives the sword to someone.

Jack: Well, yeah. Then he gives a sword to the guy for the next thing, for the next future battle to be fake king. And then he became the real king as a result. Fantastic. Sweet. Okay, who the f*** are these people?

Cristina: What people?

Jack: All of them. These people who have the sword, who are they fighting? Why? What? Why did you stop using the sword for the spear? It's a weird one.

Cristina: Did you figure that out?

Jack: No.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: I have a theory, though.

Cristina: Oh. Okay.

Jack: And so, in doing so, I had to look at the battle in which the sword was being held, and the battle was again, the battle called Torrid Magtor. And so I'm looking at the battle of Magator, and the battle of Magtoran is happening with some people called the Fear Bolga fir, Fur fear. Fur. Fur bog, whatever. Fur boggle, Some, something like that. Fur bog. And so I'm looking at the fur bog. The fur ball.

Cristina: Yes, the fur ball.

Jack: The fur balls. I'm looking at the fur balls and like, who, who, who are you guys? And then who are those guys? This got weird really quickly. So the fear bog are ancestors of some people who left Ireland in the past called the Nemedians. Nemedians are aliens?

Cristina: No. I don't know, it's just a matter of your name.

Jack: It's a weird name, but it's. They're named after the guy they follow. The guy they follow is called Nemed. And Nmed leads these people in this region of Ireland. Okay, These people who live in that region of Ireland live under consistent oppression from a group of people called the Fomorans. I hear about the Fomorians. I'm like, okay, this is getting weird. I don't know who any of those people are, but we're talking Gaelic. This is all happening 4, 5, 6, 7,000 years ago, right? So we're speaking an old a** language here. I'm saying these words like these are their names. No, this is obviously just the translation from that language. This is in that language. Words that we know. It's always the case, okay? So I'm like, let's look at some of these words, let's translate them, let's do some translations, let's find out what these words translate to.

Cristina: And it gets weird.

Jack: It. All of this is a weird freaking mess to begin with. But allow me to tell you who these people are. The Nemedians are part of the third group of people to ever settle in Ireland, led by named under the oppression of the Fomorians. And after many, many years of oppression, the Nemedians rise up and they decide, we're going to fight back and we're going to kill the Fomorians. We're going to get rid of them. But they lose this battle.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: They lose it by a landslide. A lot of them die. Out of 60,000 men, 30 escape on a boat. Oh, it was a massacre.

Cristina: That's crazy. 30, 30. And they come back.

Jack: These 30 people, these 30 living Nemedians, named amongst them, break off into two groups from a disagreement they have. One goes to Greece and one goes somewhere up north.

Cristina: What's up north?

Jack: The ones that go to Greece are who we come to know as Firbolg. Many years after leaving Ireland, Ireland has been abandoned for a very long time. They return smarter, stronger.

Cristina: Who's fear Ball. I. I already lost this fear.

Jack: B are the Nedians that left. These are the ancestors of the Ne.

Cristina: These are the people that are going to have the sword.

Jack: No, no, no. We. We're going to get to the sword. Oh, we're going to get to the sword. I'm telling you who these people are. It's very important who these people are.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: So Furbolg is the name of.

Cristina: The people who end up fighting the people that have the sword. Is that what it is?

Jack: No, listen to me.

Cristina: I can't remember. I know you mentioned them.

Jack: The Nemedians are the third people to settle Ireland. They got harassed out of there after they tried to rise up. 60,000 of the Nemedians went to war. 30 managed to get on a boat and escape after they totally lost the h*** out of that. They were being harassed by the Fomorians.

Cristina: So the come back and become for more.

Jack: The Nemedians that leave and go to Greece become known as the Fur Bulg. The Nedians that leave.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: After the third out of the 30 that were alive, some of them went to Greece. Those became known the Fir Bolg.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And that group of people comes back to Ireland to. When Ireland has been abandoned for a while now. There's nobody there. And they then become the fourth settlers of Ireland.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Whatever. Okay.

Jack: Yeah. They become the fourth settlers of Ireland.

Cristina: The third. They're technically still the third.

Jack: No, but they're. They were the third. A bunch of them got murdered. They went. The survivors went. Their ancestors. It's been generations.

Cristina: Okay. Because now they're mixed. Their whole new group.

Jack: Yeah. This is not the same people. The Met has been dead a long time.

Cristina: Okay. Now they're the fowls, huh?

Jack: Yeah. This. The Fur bog. New different people, but ancestors of Neman.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Come back to conquer this place themselves. Meanwhile, the Fomorians seem to never cross paths with these people for a very long time.

Cristina: Which ones are the Flamorians?

Jack: The ones who got their ancestors out of there. They're just not around.

Cristina: The people that kick those people out are just missing. That's what you're saying.

Jack: The Fomorians got rid of the Nemedians and Nemedians became the Firbolg.

Cristina: But those people are missing.

Jack: Missing? Yeah, they're just. They never encounter the Firbolg, never come across the Numinians. I mean, the. The. The. The Fomorians. Anyways, anyways, the Firbolg are here in this new place of Ireland where they have settled. And they're here for many, many years before there's no way.

Cristina: It's a new place.

Jack: It's been a long time. They are ancestors of the people who left.

Cristina: Okay?

Jack: It's could be 2, 300, 400 years, thousands of years, I don't know. But they show up and they're there for a long time. But after they've been there for a while, a group of people known as the Tau Tha de Danan show up.

Cristina: Are these a whole new group of.

Jack: People or these are one other new group of people show up. And these people got the guns.

Cristina: How do they have the guns?

Jack: They are so advanced that it blows the f****** Furbolg out of the g****** water. These people show up and they come in peace. Hard as f***. They're like, hey, long time ago, our ancestors left this place and they went north. North. And they reproduce and we are their descendants and we're here to try to. We're gonna share this land with you. Nah, they ain't having it. They're like, no, we're not sharing crap, okay? And he's like, well, this wasn't like a question, bro. So like one, we're the same people. Two, you can share it, or we can make you share it. And the guy was like, yeah, make me share a b****. So they fight, get their a**** f****** handed to them, and then they have to just concede to the new group of people who still ultimately gave them a chunk. They're like, go to that corner over there and stop being an a******.

Cristina: Okay?

Jack: So at the end of the day, they still gave it to them, the Tau Tha de Danan. Right. So that battle with the Fur Bolg and the Tau Tha de Danan was the first battle of Mag Turid.

Cristina: And he's the one that was leading the. Whatever the first group is called in this battle.

Jack: The leader, Nauta, is the one wielding the sword, the Fragarach. Except he's not wielding it when he's fighting. The leader of the Firbolg gets his arm cut off and he hands his sword over after the battle. But they do win the battle and they force the Fur bolg to go and share. Stop being greedy, man. This makes no sense. Why are you being greedy, man? So why the sword? What's the point? Who are these people?

Cristina: And why not use it?

Jack: And why not use the sword? I think this sword, the point of this sword is to fight fairies specifically as well. I think that's why the spear was the weapon chosen to fight earthlings.

Cristina: Oh, okay. Because it would do nothing, but it would still protect him. And he's still a sword.

Jack: If he's using it against a fairy, it makes. Maybe these rules really apply to a fairy.

Cristina: Only while fighting a fairy, it would protect him in the ways that. Yeah, supposed to.

Jack: Because the fairies, it's. Everything it does is to stop a fairy's damage a fairy's effect on him.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And he can slice through a fairy. That's just some other kind of thing. Okay, Those are my theories on that.

Cristina: Do you know where these ancestors went exactly? Like, where is this north location that they got this sword from? If they got it from that location?

Jack: So I do not know exactly where they were, but I'll give you some details on all the people. We have the broad information, ignoring the deeper narrative, just entirely explaining to you who these individual groups are right now. Because useful information. These are the questions you want. This is what you're asking. Who these people are, where they went, who they were interacting with. This is why it's important to know who these people are.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Okay. Named. The leader of the third group of settlers was a descendant of Noah.

Cristina: What? That's random. Okay.

Jack: A human favored by the Elians.

Cristina: Noah or this random dude? Okay.

Jack: Oh, no, no, no. My bad. Noah was a person favored by the Elysians.

Cristina: Interesting.

Jack: The Med was the leader of the third settlers of Ireland, subsequently named the Nemedians. Nemed in his group were oppressed originally by a group of fomorians. They rise up against the Fomorians and ultimately get defeated. And most of them are killed. Out of the 60,000 to go to battle, 30,000 managed to escape in a single ship. And they flee, most of which go to Ireland. Okay, named details. Next Firbolg. The fourth group of people to settle in Ireland. Descendants of the Nemesians, originally from the third group of settlers in Ireland, left to Greece and settled. Their descendants returned to Ireland after it had been abandoned for many years. And after settling established order and civilization with within the island. And they are overthrown by a group of people called the Taltha de Danan. Okay, so far on the right track. Everything is leading one to the other subsequently. So who the h*** are the Toffee?

Cristina: The who?

Jack: The Toffee Danan. So in fleeing after losing the first battle of Mag Turid. No, not of Mag Turret. When fleeing after they got oppressed by the Fomorians, the people who fled went to Greece. Some went to north. And these are also descendants of the Nemesians. And these are the Numidians that traveled north, which would be the Palf dead. The nun and they basically made with the locals of the region they went to. Many years later, they returned to Ireland to battle for the fir bolg and divide Ireland. Tatha de Anon is the Gaelic term for people of Elysium.

Cristina: I don't understand how.

Jack: These were not people of Elysium. Specifically, the Taffa de Danan are from a civilization towards the Arctic consisting of Aletians, Mayans and Egyptians.

Cristina: What?

Jack: They return to Ireland following orders by the Elysian leaders to assist Mananan.

Cristina: Okay. Of course. For the trees that are there. Right.

Jack: They're to join man near the Isle of Man and settle as they awaited the construction of the isle named Imane al Bach, which is that secret island they live in or on or whatever. Okay, that's fascinating.

Cristina: Ridiculous. What? What? What is going on?

Jack: Now? I get that the Elysians Tauta de anan translates to people of Elysium. So if this translates to people of Elysium, what the h***? So I look into it, and it's not that they mated with sea people. The group is made of individuals that involve non sea people. So these are people who made it with either Mayans or Egyptians who were of this high.

Cristina: Okay, that was just in that area. Okay, yes.

Jack: Of where they went to, because they were not. But then they were accepted as these like way superior people. Okay, but it's because they're coming with the tech. They're coming with these abilities that seem like magic to the people who weren't them.

Cristina: They got their sword from the Elysians.

Jack: They themselves are. Yeah, because Mananan is an Elysian. And the guy wielding the sword. Nauta, I believe he. He himself was just an Elysian scientist or a team leader, military guy or whatever the case may be. These are just a bunch of Elysians. Of course there are other people there, but the guy wielding the sword was an Elysian.

Cristina: The guy himself that was wielding the sword.

Jack: The first one, yes.

Cristina: What?

Jack: He was wielding the sword and then he loses his arm. He gives a sword to Mananan. Mananan then becomes the guy in command during the next battle. And the after that second battle for the same location, he becomes the true king.

Cristina: Well done.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Is he the same guy protecting the trees?

Jack: Yes. Studying them.

Cristina: What? He's the one that gets. Oh. What?

Jack: Yep.

Cristina: Same guy.

Jack: Same guy. Yep.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Big player.

Cristina: Whoa. That's really random.

Jack: Yep. I told you. This gets really odd.

Cristina: That is so odd. Okay, Was it not expecting that Mad random names. Then what?

Jack: So now we have Monanaan showing up. We have Elysians being mentioned. Egyptians being mentioned, Mayans being mentioned. We have a lot of big names popping up everywhere.

Cristina: Basically, all of this for the trees.

Jack: I think the trees are never mentioned in these stories related to this sword.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But we know what's going on because we know why Maranan is there, which tells us a lot. But it became crucial to find out who the h*** the Fomorians are.

Cristina: Which one's? The Fomorians?

Jack: The people who oppressed the first group. Not the first group, but the third group of settlers, and then later became both of these groups. What are your guesses?

Cristina: What? It's gonna be something we know. Maybe fairies.

Jack: Huh?

Cristina: That's it. I don't know.

Jack: Fairies, I guess. Okay.

Cristina: I feel like. What Shadow people? I don't know.

Jack: Fomorians is the Gaelic, AKA old Irish word to describe a being from the shadow realm.

Cristina: Okay, so I was right.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: With my second guess, it is a.

Jack: Being from the shadow realm.

Cristina: What?

Jack: Yep. So there are some things happening. The battle of Taurid 2, the second one, the one that Mananan was a. The leader of, stand in leader for, and then subsequently real leader was.

Cristina: Of.

Jack: This group of Elysians versus the Fomorans. This group of shadow people. Okay, but why?

Cristina: Besides for. It has to be for the trees related somehow.

Jack: I think so too. Okay, so this is the logic I'm following, right? These people are oppressed, contained, managed. None of this is happening on that island. But they're probably doing this to the people on all the local islands, all the local region, to prevent people from getting to. Because they're trying to tactically position themselves around those trees. Everybody wants a piece of these trees.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And a lot of people are kind of catching up all at the same time. Mananan is there studying the same trees, but that happens later. Presumably Mananan shows up, sees these people, doesn't really care, sees the problem of these shadow people, calls for backup. Now gets literal soldiers with overpowered weaponry showing up. So that my defense while I'm doing my work, these people. I don't think these people themselves are the scientists.

Cristina: Yes. I have a theory about these shadow people, though. This is gonna sound weird because there's no hints of this anywhere, but I feel like these specific shadow people might actually be working with the fairies. Because Ireland is kind of like the home to fairies in a way. Like, that's where all a lot of fairy tales come from, where fairies really live. Like, it's a fairy hotspot. It has the fairy hole.

Jack: I like how you put that. Yes.

Cristina: I feel like if there Are shadow people there? They might be protecting the fairies. Maybe. Question mark. Or. You can't really tell what's a fairy or what's the shadow people either. They might be, to us, harder to tell apart. We assume because we're using these different words that they're different things, but we have no idea what they actually look like. Could we really tell them apart?

Jack: Yeah. Could we? Right. We probably couldn't because they have a.

Cristina: Fairy sword to fight shadow people. I don't think so so either.

Jack: But then why wasn't he using. Oh, no, because he knew these people weren't. But then Mananan used the sword against the fomorians, which means it was.

Cristina: So either they're working with the fairies or.

Jack: No, because if the sword is meant to only be used on fairies and Mananan used it against the fomorians. Yes, the fomorians are working with fairies. They themselves are fairies. If the sword is working on them, that. Yes, but fomorians translate to shadow people. Yeah, shadow people.

Cristina: I don't. Because shadow people. I think they're so closely related, we can't tell them apart. Or at least in that time. Look, I think we just can't tell them apart. I think that's what it is because they work so similarly. Like, how could you tell from their descriptions.

Jack: Yeah. 100. And this might be happening in a couple different instances that we can't explain. When there's situations that we get stumped on. It might be that same thing that maybe we're just confusing because how it got written got messed up through translation and, like, how do they know the difference?

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: But fomorians being the same as these people.

Cristina: What people? The shadow people.

Jack: Yeah, the shot. So the fomorians being essentially the shadow people and the shadow people that they're being described essentially having no difference than if they themselves were Elysians. Not Elysians. From Alfame brings the question. A lot of things we don't know for sure about certain people when it comes to a lot of these texts that we go through. Because they could be easily confused. It could be. Again, they're just confused while they're writing it, they're expressing what they believe they're seeing. In a lot of these instances, there's no way to tell anything.

Cristina: Yes, it's that problem where, like, demons have now become aliens. It's kind of that problem. Like we're dealing with multiple things, but they're also similar that. Are we really dealing with multiple things?

Jack: And you believe that the fomorians might actually be fairies. Or working with fairies. The problem is, if the sword did work when Manana used it, it's because it worked on a fairy.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Otherwise it would not have worked.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Which is why Naota used a spear instead. Because it would. The sword would not work on these people who are just people.

Cristina: But the people he. The people he was fighting with the sword though. Shadow people.

Jack: We're shadow people. Shadow people. Unquote. But if the sword is working, then again, maybe the sword that works on fairies works on shadow people, but it still wouldn't harm. That's to say that King Arthur's sword could also hurt shadow people.

Cristina: Could be. Because they're probably closer to fairies than we are. Because fairies than in that it came. You know, they came from fairies like we came from them.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: So they got a closer link at least.

Jack: Yes. If the sword is made with fairy magic, then it could affect this group. But we're too far removed.

Cristina: Yeah, Something like that. Yeah.

Jack: And vice versa. Sword meant to do something to the other end. Which is why.

Cristina: Yeah, yeah.

Jack: That's why Excalibur was two. One could hurt one extreme, one can hurt the other extreme. Neither can hurt the extreme it came from.

Cristina: Interesting.

Jack: Interesting. So. Yes. And maybe because. Yeah. One of the things describing the Fomorians is that they come from other world. They come from the other world. What is the other world? Where is the other world? But we've seen the other world. And going back. The problem with the other world is it is interchangeably used in between meaning fairy world or. Yep.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It's always either or. It doesn't matter.

Cristina: I don't know. Like how do we tell the difference? Maybe Elysians can tell the difference. But how do we know that humans can tell the difference?

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: So that's something to think about. Because we don't know what's going on. We'll never know. Like no matter how much we figure out, we're not gonna know. Because it's so. I don't know. We don't. Because we're just getting stories from humans. A lot of these stories are humans.

Jack: A lot of these stories are from humans. Yes. We're getting second hand accounts of situations and their interpretation of crap they could. There's no way they could have understood.

Cristina: No. No.

Jack: And when we do get something weird and left behind, it looks like the magnum opus, just some random. Like, what the h***? This is just numbers and diagrams and that's what gets left behind. Somebody from this time, from this level, leave something behind. And it doesn't look like the magnum.

Cristina: Opus, which was the Magnus. The opus.

Jack: How to Create a Philosopher.

Cristina: Okay. Complicated. Okay.

Jack: But they thought these people came from shadow.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: It translates to a being from the underworld. The other world. The shadow world. H***. Whatever word you want to apply to it. That. That's what the Fomorians means. People of this place.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: They at least were very sure. Even if they were wrong.

Cristina: How do you know they were wrong?

Jack: I don't.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: But all we do know is if the Fomorians were probably trying to tactically position themselves around those trees, which we know that the Elysians around that same time were trying to do the same thing around those trees. This conflict makes perfect sense. And then the battle that takes place is between this group of Elysians defending Mananan. Really? And Mananan's work. And that's why Mananan was a leader for this work. This is his. This is his that they're defending. And he took charge and he goes and helps defend. And they managed to keep all this stuff. And Warrens are defeated and pushed off to sea. And yeah. Everybody was happily ever after. This sword is a fairy sword. Just like the Excalibur. The second one. Well, the first one. My bad. The first Excalibur. And we don't know this yet, but it's possible that Merlin himself was an Elysian, or at least tightly connected somehow.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Which means Elysians can make weapons that can kill fairies.

Cristina: That is for sure. Or at least it seems like it.

Jack: That is what I call finding a problem that could warrant the creation of the elves.

Cristina: What do you mean?

Jack: A weapon that can kill a fairy means make sure no other human can do that and stop these humans from doing it. Thus the elves get made.

Cristina: What? You think elves?

Jack: The Elysians are specifically the reason that the elves were designed, or at least sent. At least sent down to do this current task of preventing civilizations from developing too far. It's because of these weapons?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: They're making weapons that can kill fairies.

Cristina: Huh? I see.

Jack: With Merlin, at least it's debatable that it was in retaliation. There's some beef going on between this fairy.

Cristina: There seems to be beef. Yeah.

Jack: Yeah, There seemed to be beef. There's some happening here.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: But what is the case with this weapon? The Fomorians and the. And now. And the Tafa, the Nan and Manana.

Cristina: And they were fighting over this land, though. The thing fighting for that sword. They were fighting for that land. They kicked them out in the first place.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: The shadow people or whatever.

Jack: These people. The Fomorians Yes.

Cristina: It was about whatever is there. It's about the place which is a very hot spot.

Jack: Which is a very hot spot. You see the problem, right? There's something more important happening there than what we know about. We got every group closing in on this region, give or take 5000 years ago. All the big names are here. Not just all the big names, but you think of the people that we keep forgetting about. Where did the first half of the Nemedians go when they left Ireland? They went where?

Cristina: I don't remember.

Jack: To Greece.

Cristina: Oh. Why is that important?

Jack: Because the Greek are also huge players that we found out. They can even create fake Naga.

Cristina: Oh, well, it's not like the whole country is. It's very specific people.

Jack: Every one of these groups is very specific people.

Cristina: Yeah. I guess it's just such a small group.

Jack: Yeah. And every single group who ignores the rest of the major population they're part of. Yeah, this is what it is. I guess. But all the big players have shown up for this big party. Man. Involving this. They like these people. I don't know. I don't know. It definitely gives us a light into one of the things happening. Although I don't believe that they're just making weapons to go out on theory killing genocide missions. I do believe we just want to be able to defend ourselves.

Cristina: Or they were just fighting for whatever was there that they wanted. Yeah. I don't know if it was defending.

Jack: Themselves, but they knew this area was fairy related because they send the guy with the fairy sword.

Cristina: Yeah. They were kicked out first from these. From these creatures. Whatever. Kick them out. Because whatever reasons. And they were like, no, these reasons are too good. We gotta go back and fight for whatever these reasons are. Which we don't really know.

Jack: She don't really know.

Cristina: Which we're guessing is the fairy trees.

Jack: The fairy trees. Because the Monoland is right around the corner. Which they go and literally join Marana. And then Marana becomes the leader of the group.

Cristina: Fighting with fairy trees.

Jack: They're fighting with fairy trees. There's also the. The fairy castle things, the fairy circle things, fairy huts or whatever we're gonna call them. Little fairy rings.

Cristina: The fairy rings. But they're not fighting over that.

Jack: I don't know what.

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: I don't know what any of this crap is about. There's a lot of weirdness happening.

Cristina: If the trees are made out of fairies, then maybe that's why he has the sword as well. It is really. Kill some fairies for science.

Jack: Technology that can Kill. That kind of thing can do a lot. But then again, it looks like it's entirely different. Like it doesn't work on other stuff. So it's also hyper specific. But I get it if you're talking about something from a different realm, that the physics are different. You can't just be like, oh, I made steel and I'm gonna hit a ghost. You know, like, it doesn't work. Yeah, that's why a sword won't work on something from the shadow realm just as much. You need a weapon that can do things like that. So it makes sense that having this sword that can hurt a fairy, valuable, but it can only hurt a fairy. You can't use the sword averagely.

Cristina: No, that's why they didn't. But they did two fights, I don't know. And they already have the trees. And the trees might be made out of dead fairies.

Jack: Trees made out of dead fairies.

Cristina: And he has a weapon. Like it kind of points to it.

Jack: It was about the place. It was always about the place. First group gets kicked out by the fomorians trying to settle. Second group arrives, they never even see the fomorians. But they come back. We gotta come back. We gotta come back. We gotta take this place. Oh, it's been empty. Great, sweet. Settle, do our thing. Then next group comes, they beat the first group and then they beat the fomorians who come back. All over this land and it's surrounding waters. Meanwhile, Monanam's already out there. But the second group shows up to suppress the fomorians. So they hear about the thing. They hear new settlers show up and. No for Morians, they show up. We're gonna share this place. This is why they were willing to share it. This is for science. We don't need the whole idea. We just need a base of operation. Give us time, we'll be gone. No, we'll slaughter you. And so they did. See, and. Yeah. No, it makes perfect sense because he was there. They didn't want the land, man. They wanted. They knew what. They knew exactly where, what they wanted was.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So they're like, just allow us to.

Cristina: Be here to do whatever it is or get whatever it is. Or whatever. Whatever.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Fascinating. And then because of the fur bog resisting, they got shafted. Because it was never about sharing. You could have had it. We just wanted to be here for a short, brief moment.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: It's very interesting. There is something. It has to do with the fairy trees. It's the same. We also know that eventually, in the future, St. Patrick gets sent here. St. Patrick himself also has an issue with.

Cristina: Know. He also helps get rid of shadow creatures from the.

Jack: Yes, the Naga. Actually a settlement of Naga.

Cristina: Oh crap. Okay.

Jack: The settlement of Naga that were starting to pop up got rid of them and. Yeah. I don't know. I thought this was fascinating. This random weapon. I've never heard about the Fragarach. And these people were right next to the Norse. They had a lot of the same things going on. A lot of the same events happening. They were. They had access to and they saw a lot of those same things. So that's kind of cool.

Cristina: Yeah. Yes it is.

Jack: Yeah. Anyways, that's all I wanted to talk about. There's nothing crazy.

Cristina: That was pretty crazy. I don't know.

Jack: Yeah. Some major people showing up. That's definitely the fact that the shadow people or whoever these fomorians really are are having a kind of battle out here with the Tal. Thought that Danan that are really a conglomerate collective sett made up of Mayans, Egyptians and Elysians. They then come down to help Mananan because there's hostility surrounding his studies. And so this dude that has a fairy killing sword pops up help him and he becomes a leader of the group. And beautiful story for Mananan who seems to be a douchebag. Always tangled up with somebody.

Cristina: Yep. That's very interesting. I like it.

Jack: And it's very. Horizon Forbidden west. That these two groups that came from the same ancestors are fighting over the same territory.

Cristina: In what way is that like the.

Jack: Humans that existed on Earth created the humans.

Cristina: Oh, you talk about the. Okay, the second game.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Oh yeah, yeah. That's Forbidden West. Yeah, yeah. You're talking about the future people or whatever. Okay.

Jack: Yeah, yeah.

Cristina: But there's no future people here. Unless there are future people here. Which I guess would be. I'm not sure. Not sure who that is.

Jack: I think based on the timing of these weapons, it's possible that the Fragarach was the precursor to King Arthur's sword.

Cristina: Why?

Jack: I think this might literally be the same weapon.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: Or a variant of it. A tool that was used at that time by many.

Cristina: It has the same exact description, same.

Jack: Abilities down to the f****** T. Interesting. Yep. I think this is Excalibur. At least the one that was made by Merlin or similar. If it's a concept, think military. Military all has military grade issue weaponry. Everybody has the same weapon.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Same idea. So like is if this is an Elysian concept, then maybe a lot of people have this Elysian weapon that allows them to go into hostile areas that would it be impossible for anybody else because fairies.

Cristina: Makes sense.

Jack: They can totally handle it.

Cristina: I don't think it's the same sword.

Jack: Now let me paint you a quick picture and then we'll close this.

Cristina: What?

Jack: The Elysians have the ability to hide an entire island or mountain both from fairies. Creatures that can travel through and to and see anything in our side and do it effortlessly. Elysians found a way to cloak things from them. Hide things from them. Second Elysians build a weapon that can kill fairies. You can't see us coming. And we can kill you.

Cristina: Yes. Except they could. Once Jesus was born.

Jack: I guess Jesus became a problem. Jesus became a problem. Now that's little by little that image is refining itself a little more. Jesus became a huge problem. Because if you can hide from the fairies. Jesus gave that away.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Didn't mean technology. He is above that. He magically sent a shockwave through time.

Cristina: Yeah. So D***. Yeah. Don't know how that it's all related somehow.

Jack: It's all related somehow. We inched closer. See a lot of relevant information about this weapon. But shining a light on some important details here and there. By finding a second weapon made potentially by the Elysians. We have two examples of two potential Elysians designing a weapon that can kill fairies. And they are very similar. Either this is the same sword or they can mass produce these weapons that can kill fairies. Thus making the Elysians more of a threat than we thought.

Cristina: But how many fairy killing swords are there?

Jack: I do not know. But that's why we're going to look through many different fairy killing or magic based weapons to find out what's going on with that.

Cristina: So you think there's more out there?

Jack: I think there's many more. And I think that we're going to find a couple of swords. I do truly honestly believe so.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And there is one instance that we have to look at that I can already think off the top of my head that might be the same idea.

Cristina: What?

Jack: Because when Lucifer got kicked from the Garden of Eden, the man to directly replace his post was Michael. Michael is a soldier and Michael has a sword. A very famous sword. A very famous sword that can strike down anything.

Cristina: So you're gonna look into that sword. Cool.

Jack: AKA the flaming sword.

Cristina: That's what it's called. That's pretty good. Lovely. Okay.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Cool. Cool.

Jack: So that's a fragrance right there. It turned out to be related to all the same people. Everybody. All the same people.

Cristina: Lovely.

Jack: Everything.

Cristina: I hope we can find the Same juicy stuff about that sword. The flaming sword.

Jack: Yeah, that'd be dope. I hope. I mean, it's already connected to an unleash. And so, like, that's beginning on an obvious note. But we'll look at that and see how. Because if anything, that's the top of the line of technology when it comes to weaponry. The guy closest to them would have the best weapon, right?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Which means that's refined tech. But yeah, we'll figure it out. Anyways, if you guys have any comments, questions, concerns, ideas for any of this information, you can contact us. You can hit us up on our social medias. That's on Facebook, Instagram X and Tick Tock at just Convopod.

Cristina: Remember to subscribe, rate and review the show.

Jack: Yes. And word of mouth, tell everybody about this show so they can go and listen to it.

Cristina: This has been the Rambling podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Listening.

Jack: Bye. Level at the same time, same scenario. You got so sloppy with it too. Plain sight. You're like it. Attack ourselves. Who gives a. It's closer to home. We'll get it faster. Desperation. Okay, not thinking then. Now you gotta clean the massive cleanup job. You gotta think about how to cover this up, who to blame. Even blaming it. There's like, what the. Those people clearly had nothing to do with it. And we're still over there. Like no 100. It had something to do with them. Yeah, but you got. You got some sloppy desperation now you got a crazy cleanup job, which is what's happening right now. Crazy cleanup job is going to follow whatever the f*** is happening.

Cristina: Good morning. Good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by greatthoughts.info art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McCallister with social media managed by Amber Black.

Rambling 238: The Blood Libel

Who performs the Blood Libel? What does it mean? What is the Significance of the Child Eater Fountain? The duo becomes aware of the Child Eater Fountain in Switzerland, a statue of unknown origin depicting a child eating demon. The investigation into the origins of this statue opens up some interesting doors not before known of and perhaps provides insight into another civilization with highly advanced technologies.

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed

  • Child Eater Fountain
  • Ritual Murder
  • The Blood Libel
  • Matzos
  • Adrenalized Flesh
  • The Power of Matzo
  • Rabbi Judah
  • The Voice of God
  • Dragging Spirits from the Shadow Realm
  • Creature from the Shadow Realm
  • Teleportation Between Realms
  • Josef the Golem
  • Three Robed Men
  • Six Mysterious Boxes

Our Links:

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod

Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod

Instagram - https://instagram.com/justconvopod


+Transcript

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And this is the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas. And today, in continuation to this infinite seeming rabbit hole that we keep falling down.

Cristina: There's more.

Jack: There's more. So no need for a recap. Every episode has frequent recap. Just go listen to the beginning of a different episode and then come back.

Cristina: We'll probably recap it somewhere in this episode.

Jack: Yeah, there's gonna be discussion trying to refine our ideas as we move forward with the information that I have uncovered. But let us begin in Switzerland.

Cristina: What's there?

Jack: Switzerland has a statue. A statue of some sort of creature eating children.

Cristina: It's not a person, it's a creature.

Jack: It's some sort of a creature eating children.

Cristina: Is there a story to it? Like is it from a child story or something?

Jack: Well, people who stare at it and don't do any research on it just believe it's Krumpus. Oh, eating kids.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Also, what is Krumpus? If Krampus eats children, that kind of falls in line with a lot of things, but story for a different day.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Right. So I thought that it's interesting that there's a statue of a creature eating children that you know, probably something we should be looking at considering of everything we talk about. It's not Krampus. It's definitely not Krumpus.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Otherwise I would start there.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But it's not. It's a creature eating children. Which then tells us we should look at it because it probably connects to the bigger picture.

Cristina: Yeah. What does it look like?

Jack: It looks like some sort of a demon. So this statue of some sort of.

Cristina: A thing reminds me of those things in the Christmas time that you put the nuts in.

Jack: A nutcracker.

Cristina: A nutcracker.

Jack: It's definitely not a nutcracker.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But the colors are very Christmassy, which made people think related to Santa Crumpus Krampus has Christmasy Christmas colors. So this demon statue is called Kindle Frisserbrunnen. The Kindle Frisserbrunnen. It is Swiss German. A Swiss German word. It doesn't mean anything. It means child eater fountain.

Cristina: Oh, very strange. Okay.

Jack: Yeah. So as you look at the Kindle Frisser Brennan, you notice a couple of interesting details. One is that reddish, very Santa Claus robe.

Cristina: It has funny looking hat.

Jack: It's eating A child. It has an interesting hat. It's eating one child, and it has a bag of more children with more children.

Cristina: Fits the whole, like, Christmasy theme. That has a bag.

Jack: Yes, yes. Not only that, we had a saint with children in barrels.

Cristina: Santa Claus.

Jack: Exactly. So there's. There's. There's consistency here.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: So it's easy to see why people would think Krampus. It's Krampus.

Cristina: Yeah, I see.

Jack: It's absolutely easy to see that it's.

Cristina: Like Santa Claus eating children.

Jack: So details about it. It's eating one child, and it has a bag on its side to its left with other children in the bag. Yep. Interesting detail about this is, as you pointed out, the hat.

Cristina: What type of hat is that?

Jack: That hat is a nightmare to track down, but it's a very specific hat, really. So the only thing giving us any clues about what this is is that hat. Everything else here is telling us what somebody wearing that hat would do, but the hat is telling us who. Fascinating. So I had to go down quite the complicated rabbit hole in order to find what hat looks exactly like that.

Cristina: I really want to know. I'm curious.

Jack: And there are many, many, many, many, many hats throughout the world.

Cristina: We're gonna find out. It's like the Pope's hat or something.

Jack: Many religious hats throughout the world. And that specific hat is called a Juden hut.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The Juden hut that this demon is wearing is the traditional Jewish cap.

Cristina: That's so horrible. Okay.

Jack: Details surrounding this statue.

Cristina: It's racist.

Jack: It was founded, it was funded by an unknown contributor. They don't know who paid for this statue. It was there to replace the original old fountain that was there. It was just a withered, regular, basic fountain, and they replaced it with this. They don't know who paid to have it, and they don't know who provided the blueprints for the statue.

Cristina: And people were just like, okay, this is an interesting statue. Let's keep it.

Jack: It was free.

Cristina: Like,

Jack: The statue is representing something very, very, very specific, which, like, the hat is a freaking nightmare to track down. But as a researcher, I tracked it down. What we're witnessing being performed is called the blood labelle.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The blood label is ritual murder.

Cristina: And who's doing these rituals? It's the Jews.

Jack: The Jews. That's why it's a Jewish hat.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: It's a Jewish demon eating children. So it's a blood ritual performed by the Jewish community. What does the ritual entail? Well, the blood ritual is done to extract blood from young children to Use in as the prime ingredient in a matzo.

Cristina: What is that?

Jack: This is gonna blow your freaking mind. A matzo is a flatbread. It's a flatbread which is eaten during Passover. Wait, let's think about this real quick. There's another Jew famous for trying to get you to eat some bread and claiming that it is something flesh.

Cristina: Oh, my gosh. He was feeding people children blood. Oh, man. We knew he was into blood, but. Whoa, Whoa. Jesus.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: Whoa. What was he doing? What was he. He was making cults like.

Jack: And he is already a person with magical abilities due to his nature of being created essentially as a. As a science experiment. So he has these special abilities and his culture already has this thing about blood.

Cristina: He needs them to drink his blood, not his blood. He needs his followers to drink blood to get. Be connected to him.

Jack: His blood is very different than the blood from this. But in general, they will all have abilities relative because it's all adrenochrome, whether it be nectar, ambrosia or icha.

Cristina: Yeah. He didn't even have to use his own blood, though he could. He was probably using children blood.

Jack: His blood was for his disciples.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But he had blood for others.

Cristina: I see.

Jack: That's why his disciples these days, who has abilities? Nobody has abilities. But in those days, anybody related to him in any manner, shape or form had abilities. Yeah, that tells us a lot. People getting his blood had special, special abilities. Not just immortality. Not just youth. Not just moving over to the shadow realm. We're talking performing what we have grown to label miracles. Meanwhile, random other people just get the immortal life and the youth and the this and the that. The normal stuff, the vampiric nature of it. There you go. They become vampires. No crazy extra abilities, just vampires.

Cristina: That is so crazy. And what from this hat?

Jack: Yeah, yeah. Details about this ritual that became very interesting very quickly. In order to extract the blood from these children, a decapitation is performed and they are placed on an anti cross the way you would place a chicken on a string hanging after you cut its head so it would bleed out.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: It was a crucifixion every time.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And they specifically said that the suffering enhances the flavor and purity of the matzo.

Cristina: What?

Jack: Very adrenochrome.

Cristina: Yes. Is there an explanation of why they were eating these masks? Like, did they have.

Jack: Yes, we would get there.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: That is the point of this. So the matzah. The eating of the matzah began upon the Jewish exodus from Egypt, with the logic behind it being that it Symbolizes freedom from the constraints of the rule of Egyptians and very specifically their unholy technologies against, and I quote, the voice of God.

Cristina: Technology against the Egyptians. Technology.

Jack: Yes. These unpure advancements that the voice of our God has told us is bad.

Cristina: Whoa.

Jack: We know they're listening to something and I think we know who it has to be. Jehovah of dark. Because that's the guy beforehand, that's the guy that has an issue with a lot of this. Because Jehovah of light is the one making these technologies.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: Interesting. Egyptians technology. Okay. Whoa.

Jack: So fascinating. Okay. In ancient. This is real specific. Everything I just got is from a combination of biblical texts and personal accounts. Now, everything I'm about to explain right now has been expunged from current day texts, but can be found in certain texts. The parts that are not just firsthand accounts and the parts that are first hand accounts are not in biblical text. These are by people.

Cristina: By people around that time?

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: So matzos were consumed. The blood of those who consumed it was poured over an inanimate mud and CLAY Golem giant, 15 to 20ft in size. So let me repeat this.

Cristina: Yes. That makes no sense.

Jack: The blood of the people who consumed the matzos was then poured over a mud and clay sculpture of a golem giant that was about 15 to 20ft in size.

Cristina: The people eating these things, the people.

Jack: Who eat the matzo, those people would then pour their blood onto a clay sculpture.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Of a golem, very giant golem, about 15, 20ft in size.

Cristina: Why?

Jack: Yeah. The first of which was named Joseph of Prague.

Cristina: The person or the golem?

Jack: The golem.

Cristina: These things became alive or something.

Jack: Well, let us discuss the activity before we move forward.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The people who consume the matzo pour their blood over the golem.

Cristina: And this golem is just a thing.

Jack: Made out of mud, clay and mud.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The people who consume the matzo. We've only heard about this another time. Do you know what we're talking about?

Cristina: No.

Jack: It's ichor.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: They consumed a food of adrenochrome and then their body distilled.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Now they use the ichor and give that to the sculpture.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Fascinating.

Cristina: That is it.

Jack: Ichor, as we know, has the capacity to straight out kill a mortal. It's potent.

Cristina: Potent, but not to these. Well, I don't even know what's happening.

Jack: Well, let us move forward. The blood would then bring life to the sculpture. Very important quote.

Cristina: This is kind of insane.

Jack: Very important quote. This part is in texts that are no longer in current day scripture.

Cristina: Yes, but they're like talking.

Jack: Listen, that what I'm about to tell you is in scripture that is no longer in current day scripture. The blood would then bring to life the sculpture, and I quote, dragging souls into it from a realm unknown.

Cristina: Oh, probably the shadow realm.

Jack: That's what I'm thinking.

Cristina: That's how they're coming through here. Instead of using, like, gates or whatever. I mean, I guess this is before Jesus was making gates.

Jack: This is before Jesus was making gates.

Cristina: They're using golems. Okay, this is crazy. This is crazy that they caused whatever Egypt was doing. Advanced evil technology.

Jack: Well, they were being told it's evil technology.

Cristina: Yes. And then they're calling this normal technology. I don't understand.

Jack: And then they're. They're figuring how to do these things from the voice of God that they can only hear because they've consumed adrenochrome.

Cristina: What are they using these gums or did they explain it?

Jack: Like we're gonna get there?

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: As it stands, it looks like they're pulling somehow using ichor. They're somehow dragging things from the shadow realm. That's absolute madness. So as opposed to creatures from the shadow realm coming willingly, depending on fear on this end, or people consuming adrenochrome things and moving over when they die to the shadow realm, we have an actual account for the first time of forcefully bringing something from the shadow realm over.

Cristina: That's pretty crazy.

Jack: Almost like a summoning of a demon of sorts. Which then makes me wonder if all the other accounts of summoning demons, when we have these pentagrams on the ground and we do these little rituals and we pour some blood on the thing isn't essentially doing exactly the same thing. It's a way of dragging things from the shadow realm forcefully. It seems like earthrealm and the shadow realm are so entangled in a sort.

Cristina: Of way that is very strange how we do summon things. Our people do try to summon things from over there. What if you get more control over the thing by giving it a body? I don't get it.

Jack: Interesting, right? Yeah, because this is what we don't have, people summoning anything. As far as we know. We haven't seen them summon anything. We've seen them go through to the other side, usually after death. Or we've got Mount Kaf that allows them to cross over. We have the Jesus Gates that allows them to come through from the other side. We have Soma, which allows them to cross over after death. Presumably just like adrenochrome There are ways, there are methods. Unicorn blood allows you to again accomplish the same thing. The fruits allows you to. The fruit of flesh allows you to do the same exact thing. But it seems after you die, you cross over. Now we have people in earthrealm just somehow bringing these, bringing the things back. Why was this more hidden than anything else we found?

Cristina: Because it sounds crazy. Yeah.

Jack: Why was this harder to find? Why are they suppressing the fact that we could bring. I guess it would be a horrible problem if we started bringing. Should have from over there. Over.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: It's less problematic if we just die.

Cristina: Their job, though, they bring things into people and then they get rid of those things to scare people. At least the church does that. They do bring demons into people's bodies.

Jack: Yes. And then they catch demon out of exorcism. But the question is, are they bringing the demons into these bodies? For sure, we know that they're making things, which follows what the sea people do. We know Catholicism is basically a sect of the sea people controlling the Christian ideology that spun out of control, but without counting the things that are happening that they're making. Because it's just in their nature to make things and work with science and the occult or whatever.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Outside of that. Is a possession from a little girl in some random abandoned village their fault? Or is that just some s*** that went down and we're watching shadow realm creatures get trapped inside physical things. And then because the sea people are very aware, they have these priests and they're like, okay, use what we know and go get rid of it.

Cristina: It could be.

Jack: I think those are two different things. I think monsters and creatures are them making s*** that gets out of control. And I think these possessions are shadow realm creatures.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Getting trapped inside physical beings. I think based on this, we have made a distinction.

Cristina: Yes, I see.

Jack: Because they do go out of their way to get rid of the things that they let escape. I don't think they're making them in order to increase faith. I think there's just too much going on and s*** just gets out of control once in a while.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And then they go solve the problem.

Cristina: And yeah, they have the power to do the power.

Jack: They're not scared. But then a demon gets trapped, quote, demon unquote, gets trapped inside of a body. What is that? That's a f****** gin. Trapped inside a mortal body. And so go get rid of it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Just happens casually, somebody particularly scared. Something horrible happens. Usually something horrible happens leading to this.

Cristina: Those are, yeah, very random. Not like this golem Thing where you're actually.

Jack: Well, that's the other side of this. People make rituals. They do diabolical. Well, quote, diabolical things, unquote. And then they get possessed because they bring a demon from the other side. Where's the other side? It's probably the shadow realm.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And then you bring this thing and boom, trapped it inside you. Now you're thinking it was gonna help you. No, I just wanted to be over here.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: Interesting. Yes.

Jack: What Interesting.

Cristina: The whole golem thing is weird, though. They're just having. But like. Okay, so they pour it on the golem, and then the golem, they want it to come alive or actually comes alive.

Jack: So this ritual is performed every seven years to erect a new golem. And interesting. Usually we come across the Egyptians and the Mayan. In this case, the Greek and the Egyptian, both in different texts, say that they've had their children taken and sacrificed by the Jewish communities for these purposes.

Cristina: For these golems.

Jack: For these golems.

Cristina: What?

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: Why?

Jack: These are two communities that don't agree.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The Egyptian side with the sea people, the creek don't. They're under their thumb.

Cristina: Yeah. They're just trading with them pretty much.

Jack: They're like, we have the obligation to deal with you guys, but we don't like you guys. But then they all agree on this one thing. The Jews are stealing our children and making golems with their f****** blood.

Cristina: That's what they say. Oh, my gosh.

Jack: I found that in both.

Cristina: What?

Jack: So using old Jewish testimonies and accounts, a rabbi named Judah, known as the Maharal, is the guy who made Joseph the golem, the first of them.

Cristina: Okay, what was it for?

Jack: The golem had the ability to make himself invisible. Interesting enough. I don't know what use this is. Just some details. The ability. This is the most freaking important part about this golem's abilities. It had the ability to bring spirits from the dead or a realm unknown.

Cristina: A realm unknown. Okay. What?

Jack: The golem can bring creatures from elsewhere. Now, would you like to know what these are like?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Because there's three very different statements.

Cristina: But are those the whole powers. That's it.

Jack: It's just really big, really strong, the usual you'd expect from a golem. And then the special abilities of it can go invisible, and it could bring spirits from the dead or a realm unknown. Okay, now I say dead or realm unknown. The things we find consistently say one or the other, not both. It doesn't say both the dead and a realm unknown.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: It's like sometimes it's the dead, sometimes it's a realm unknown. Okay, now the spirits. I was like, huh? Huh? Was this some revisiting of some old. Here. The spirits of wild beasts. So it differentiates wild beasts from wolves and monsters. Wild beasts, wolves and monsters. Two kinds of wolves we're familiar with. That come from the Shadow Realm?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Yeah. These are the. The spirits that the golem brings. While the golem is doing its thing, it's surrounded by these twisted, contorted spirits from the other place. Okay, the Shadow Realm.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: That is interesting. Do they have control of these things?

Jack: I don't know if they have control of them. I just know they could bring them. Chances are there's some. Something about this golem radiates enough fear to manifest these things that rely entirely on fear to come through. I don't know. It doesn't. It's like it doesn't need fear to summon these things that we formerly thought could only come through with fear.

Cristina: Yeah, they're their own type of portal.

Jack: Yes, they. Exactly. The golem itself is an interesting kind of portal of sorts that brings or allows things from the Shadow Realm through.

Cristina: And some of the scariest things, the.

Jack: Scariest, most f***** s***. A windingo, a wetchudge. I don't even care what the f***. The. Well, werewolf is from this side. It's from Earth.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: That's just the wolf. The adrenochrome. That's already only over here. Yeah, but when Dingo and a wetchudge. That's a f****** nightmare happening. I don't even care what they mean by monsters or what they mean by beasts. You don't get more f***** than a Windingo and a wet judge. The spirit of wolves. Get the f*** out of here. Yeah, that's a problem. So you got this giant golem 15 to 20ft. It could just phase away in front of you. But here's my. Here's my theory about this. What? It could just go invisible? That doesn't check out. That doesn't make sense.

Cristina: What, that a mud thing moves around and can turn it.

Jack: Well, no, let's be clear about what I'm talking about. Things are phasing in from the Shadow Realm.

Cristina: So it's phasing out into the Shadow Realm.

Jack: Into the Shadow Realm. I think they have the way to and from.

Cristina: Yes, that makes sense. That's how it's bringing them.

Jack: That's how it's bringing them.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Yeah, they have a way to and from. We have not found this before. We found ways over there. And Jesus has the portals from over there. Fear usually brings you through.

Cristina: Okay. It's a video game. There's a video game where you go into space and weird stuff happens. But anyway, in this video game, outer world, you go on a rock and it disappears. And wherever it disappears to, you disappear too. Like, is this mud creature like that rock?

Jack: Why would it be like that rock? I don't understand.

Cristina: Like, it has whatever that. That thing is based on real science. That rock?

Jack: Yeah. You're talking about. Not entanglement. Superposition.

Cristina: Yes. Is it possible Golem is like that? Or does it have to be in this reality no matter what?

Jack: Well, yeah. Superposition is a physical world type of thing.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The shadow realm is not.

Cristina: Okay, never mind. It did remind. I don't know, it just reminded me of that rock.

Jack: But regardless.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: It seems to be phasing out. Invisible is how they would describe it because they don't know what's happening.

Cristina: But it's probably just.

Jack: It's probably just popping over there, over there.

Cristina: Like everything else that goes from there to here, it seems like.

Jack: Except it could go from over here over there. Now, let me explain how interesting it is that this was harder to find than most of what I've found. When the point of Jesus being created at all was for what?

Cristina: To go in and out.

Jack: To go in and out. And the Jews found a way to go in and out, at least of the shadow realm. Jesus needs portals to come back.

Cristina: Yeah, but they're not actually using these things to go in and out.

Jack: No, they have a thing that could. Well, the point of Jesus was a thing that itself could go in and out.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And the Jews have that at least.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: To and from the shadow realm. And Jesus, to some degree, there's more than one group accomplishing things here.

Cristina: Very strange. But there's like. It's not like they purposely or they have any clue that this is what's going on.

Jack: We were talking last week about how do we find out the progress that's being made in the shadow realm relative to getting either over here or making it to Elfhame. I think this is insight to that. I think Jehovah of Light and Jehovah of Dark are roughly making the same amount of progress.

Cristina: Yes. Okay.

Jack: They both have a method that's more or less the same when you think of it, that allows them to go.

Cristina: Through, but they're not using these ways to go through.

Jack: They have things that go through. Yeah, they're still experimenting.

Cristina: They haven't figured it out.

Jack: Which Is the goal. If they already had it figured out, they wouldn't be experimenting to figure it out. It wouldn't make any sense. Obviously, they're running the experiments and they sometimes have things that could do it. Jesus Christ and the golem Joseph have the same more or less abilities. And it seems like Joseph is more successful. What, because he can just phase back in and out?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Jesus can't just phase over there. Interesting. He had to die before he could do that. Joseph could just do that. But Joseph is made with dead people.

Cristina: Yes, he made it with. And he's probably not a conscious being. He's more like a zombie. Probably.

Jack: Well, actually, it does express that he's sort of a thinking creature. Why, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. A couple of stories that I didn't list here to discuss were one, that he even falls in love. There are definitely ideas to this being a sentient thinking creature, conscious behavior. Yes. But that being said, Jesus dies, comes back, but he eventually discovers a couple of things. I think he, through the course of science himself, figured out that maybe he can come back and forward. And that's why he can pop up here, pop up there. It's not just teleportation. Locally, he might later in his life, after quote the death unquote, have achieved what Joseph does.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Which is go in and out. Yes, go in and out.

Cristina: Whoa.

Jack: It took some working and he had, luckily the gates built ahead of time. Knowing what would happen. He comes through and then worked longer until he figured it out. And then he can come in now. Come in effortless.

Cristina: Do you know what happens to Joseph? Does he die?

Jack: Well, we'll get there. So we have his abilities and we have the interesting detail that Joseph is probably a creature that can travel through two dimensions.

Cristina: That's insane. I thought he was just a thing going back and forth, but he's not just a thing.

Jack: Yeah, he's a creature thinking.

Cristina: What? That changes everything. That's.

Jack: Well, that makes the next part a little dark. So Joseph would be deactivated every single weekend. The rabbi, not being able to supervise it because he would be attending Sabbath, didn't want Joseph to be acting outside of his supervision. So he came up with an incantation that was performed to restrain the physical being of Joseph. It's speculated that the incantation was performed on a blanket which would cover the golem completely, rendering him inanimate again. But the spirit that was captured inside would stay.

Cristina: Okay, Weird. What?

Jack: I will rephrase. That incantation is essentially, Joseph was given a blanket that's enchanted it's magic.

Cristina: A magic?

Jack: Like a magic blanket. The rabbi figured out how to use magic and used magic to enable. To disable. To disable a spirit from the shadow realm.

Cristina: Did they mention, like, he was giving it. He got that from whatever their God is or.

Jack: There's no explanation as to how the rabbi figured these things out. Okay, there's no explanation, but the assumption is the obvious one. Yes. He's probably being told because he's told, these people are told that the technology of the Egyptians is unholy.

Cristina: Mm. So crazy. With this thing made out of blood and mud.

Jack: It's totally, you know, the righteous path or whatever the f***.

Cristina: Whoa.

Jack: So, yeah. Which sounds more or less like the brainwashing that Jesus went through. Right? Maybe Jesus wasn't brainwashed. He's like, my people f***** me over. F*** them. Who knows what the story there is?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But. Yeah. So the golem would be disabled every weekend, and the spirit would be contained. Now the golem would be disabled in the attic of the synagogue. That's where it was always disabled. And only the successor of the rabbi was allowed in the attic as a result. Now let us go to where this gets weirdly interesting. Like, it's not already.

Cristina: Yeah, I was going to, like, what, what's. Okay.

Jack: In 1883. Long, long, long later. Let me give you some time frames, by the way. Jesus happened year one to year 33. Ish. Right. Okay, great, Sweet. This rabbi is happening in the 15. In. In 1919, in the 1500s.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: That's still way recent. Way recent by comparison.

Cristina: This was before Jesus time.

Jack: Well, weirdly enough, the information that led to them making the matzo out of the children came from the time of Jesus, apparently was learned and taught by Moses.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: And it disappeared into time, presumably because the Knights Templar went on a crazy rampage to erase it from history. And then some scholars, some Jewish scholars uncovered it, and then they connected with God that continued to direct them. So they consumed it after they did the thing, and they started to hear the voice of God, and then he continued to guide them.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But in the time of Moses, he was also told that the technology of the Egyptians were unholy. That was put into writing. That's the scripture that was then uncovered, and that is the information that these people have.

Cristina: So Moses didn't have golems.

Jack: Moses does not have golems.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: This. The way to create a golem was taught by the voice of God to these newer people. Newer people. While Moses knew how to make the matzo in order to achieve A form of immortality.

Cristina: Okay?

Jack: Craziness, okay, that's to clarify. So that's the 1500s. The rabbi lives his life. He eventually dies, dies, like 1590 ish. Now it's 1883. Long time has passed. Shortly before the synagogue is renovated, a group of fully robed individuals, it's unknown whether they are men or women, fully robed, top to bottom, visited and stayed for three days and three nights in the synagogue. It was closed off. These people showed up and stayed. People were like, okay, I don't know what the h*** is happening, but they were there for three days, three nights, and then they left the premises.

Cristina: Simple, okay?

Jack: Now the attic of the synagogue has been closed off because of the Golem. It's a holy ground that nobody's allowed to walk into.

Cristina: Okay? They don't use the golem at all.

Jack: The golem hasn't been used. The only people allowed ever up there were the rabbi and his successor. That's it. Nobody else. So following these people leaving and during the renovation, no evidence is found of the Golem. So they don't know. Maybe it was a lie, maybe it was a bullshit. Sorry, whatever the case, yeah, but the three men were followed as they arrived and left with six black boxes, small boxes, you know, maybe. Maybe a foot, a square foot each, and six square boxes. Each one carried two. Three men, three boxes. I mean, six boxes, three nights, three days in the synagogue. They. Nobody knows who the h*** they are. They came, they left. So the men are followed because it's actually some thieves that record this next part because they wanted the boxes.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: They don't know what the h*** the boxes were, but when the guys arrived, they were watching them. That's why the same reason the thieves never reported to people staying at the synagogue.

Cristina: Okay? Because they were planning, like, maybe this is the best time to.

Jack: Yeah, yeah. So then they follow these people that became of interest to these thieves and they followed them to a place in Ziskov, there's a graveyard. They follow these men to a graveyard in Ziskov where they are then witnessed burying the six boxes. And they bury the boxes in a very specific formation. There are three in a horizontal line, one in the center, two to the sides. Above the one in the center there is one, and below the two, extreme left and right are two more. That's all six boxes, okay? So if you put a horizontal line down the middle, off the top of the center one, you put one, and below the other two you put vertically, and that's all six boxes creating a upside Down y. Of sorts.

Cristina: Okay. Yeah, that's very strange shape.

Jack: Okay, the last thing we find out about this.

Cristina: What? That is weird. And it's related to the Golem or. No, no one knows.

Jack: No one knows.

Cristina: Why? Why? Have your suspicions?

Jack: Not a clue. I tried to find anything about that.

Cristina: That's the end of that story.

Jack: Nah. The notes of the thieves that were tracking their steps in order to calculate how to rob these guys were found at the graveyard. But the thieves weren't. There's no information.

Cristina: No one tried to find those boxes.

Jack: It looks like they tried, but couldn't find the boxes. Because again, the thieves didn't write down where they don't want anybody to find that they wanted to be the ones. But the thieves themselves can't be found.

Cristina: So he disappeared.

Jack: Yeah, thieves essentially disappeared.

Cristina: Whoa. So they murdered the Golem? Maybe. Question mark. Not murdered. Well, I don't know. It's a thing.

Jack: Well, the Golem is disabled, as far as we know.

Cristina: Yeah, they cut it up in pieces, put it in a box.

Jack: How would they fit it in these small boxes? The golem was 15 to 20ft. They're gonna fit it in six square foot boxes.

Cristina: I don't know. What are these boxes? What could they possibly have put in those boxes?

Jack: I have no idea. It's unclear whether they put anything in the boxes. They showed up with the boxes and then left with the boxes.

Cristina: Mm. But you said the Golem isn't there anymore.

Jack: The Golem has never been seen after it went into the attic for the last time.

Cristina: Okay, so it might still be there.

Jack: They went up there and there was nothing up there during the renovation.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Which was roughly 200 years later.

Cristina: Yes. So they were there before the renovations.

Jack: Almost 300 years. Who was there?

Cristina: The six.

Jack: Yes. When the. When the building was closed off for the renovation. Before the renovation began. But the property was already closed up. They showed up. They stayed there for.

Cristina: Maybe it's not. Not the golem parts, but maybe they did break apart the Golem. Like they hid pieces of it in that place, Never actually removing the Golem from there. But hiding the Golem?

Jack: Well, no. The renovation would have found it.

Cristina: Because you can't. Yeah, that's weird. Because it can't be in those boxes. No, but that makes the most obvious or makes sense. It would be. But those boxes are too small.

Jack: Well, I'll give you the conclusion as to what I believe. Not conclusion, but my theory. Because we gotta use what we know. If they went up there and they removed the blanket from the Golem. Then the golem can move again.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: The golem doesn't have a master anymore. That guy's been dead for how long? Not serving anybody. So the golem could have just phased out where it's going.

Cristina: Oh yeah. So they just maybe just helped it.

Jack: Maybe help to get out.

Cristina: Get out? Yeah. That's interesting. That's even better.

Jack: What important follow up detail. I believe the three people that showed up. The number three very important. Might have been the Magi.

Cristina: Of course. That's what I was thinking. But I don't get the boxes even if that's true.

Jack: The boxes either.

Cristina: The boxes don't make sense. But I feel like what if they did destroy the golem and it's made out of mud? So like maybe it could fit in those boxes. I don't know.

Jack: It's 15ft of mud.

Cristina: But maybe murdering it trunk it or something. Or maybe the time trunk it. Maybe it wasn't the same size. If it was there for super long.

Jack: Why would they need any of that?

Cristina: Why would they need what?

Jack: Like how. How would this play out? This doesn't make any sense. That's hard speculation without anything to back it up.

Cristina: It's weird that they bury these boxes.

Jack: It is. It totally is. That's very strange. But it's most definitely not the golem in the boxes. That couldn't be the case. How? It doesn't make sense. It makes more sense that they went up there, did some kind of a deal or something. Use some maybe that contained their technology. Whatever technology they used to stop the again. They could control magic. Yeah, they can create magic dampening fields. Maybe the boxes contained whatever they had to stop the golem from leaving. Giving it only the option to phase out. Or yeah. Maybe it just phase out with the body and all. And then wherever it went to the other side, whatever spell or whatever, collapse it so that the body breaks down and it can't come back. Or something. Or something. Theories. But shrinking it into six tiny square foot boxes?

Cristina: No. Like it shrunk over time though.

Jack: Why would that make sense?

Cristina: Because it's made out of mud?

Jack: No, it would just dry out. It would be a giant stone sculpture at this point.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It's clay as well.

Cristina: It's clay.

Jack: It's mud.

Cristina: And clay that's not going to make it shrink for a very long time. Like how long was it up there?

Jack: Why would it shrink at all? I don't understand what you. What you think mud is.

Cristina: It's magical mud though. It's not normal mud.

Jack: It's normal mud when it's not alive. It should just be a hard sculpture.

Cristina: The boxes, though.

Jack: The boxes are weird. I know. They are confusing.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: But we know that they don't literally use magic. They use technology.

Cristina: It's hard to look past those boxes. Especially that they buried it in such a weird way too.

Jack: They did. That was very strange. The whole boxes part is such a freaky mess. I don't understand why this is huge mystery. And then the only people who saw it happen vanished, Disappear.

Cristina: Like, come on. That's very strange.

Jack: What if we assume the maji are being watched for their own safety, then that means the thieves that were plotting on the maji were being watched.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: You know, and then there's just. Okay, let's just get rid of them.

Cristina: Yes. But they kept the records there. Like they could have got rid of them and the work that they were.

Jack: You're right. Or maybe they weren't aware of the records.

Cristina: Why bury the boxes like that? Like they just buried them three by three and it was like, whatever. That's normal. Who cares? But the way they buried it also is just really weird.

Jack: It was almost in the shape of a golem.

Cristina: That's really weird.

Jack: Yeah. It's like the body, the head and the torso, the arms and the legs. Yeah, it's weird.

Cristina: It's very weird. Not telling me. That thing maybe shrink through time and then they just.

Jack: That doesn't make any sense. The shrinking part that doesn't check out.

Cristina: You don't know how.

Jack: My bet is that there is technology in the boxes and they, in those three days created some sort of a field. I do believe that might be the case. This is just thinking of how the sea people work on average. And the maji, being sea people, they go out of their way. They perform this thing to prevent it from leaving. We know it because it's on Mount Athos. They prevent magic. And this is a magical creature?

Cristina: Yeah. Do we have any more stories about not golems, but mud creatures?

Jack: No.

Cristina: No. Because maybe they helped. Maybe they made him smaller before disappearing. Like maybe it is full of parts of the golem, but the golem now looks more human.

Jack: Why and how?

Cristina: I don't know. Shrinking technology is not shrinking, but like, it's a sculpture. They just like rip some parts of it to make it look more normal. So you can just live a normal life when it feels like.

Jack: I understand what you're saying.

Cristina: So piece is still gonna phase here? It's every once in a while.

Jack: Well, not unless they're stopping that from.

Cristina: Making kids or that. Yeah.

Jack: So your idea would be that they created a smaller sculpture that they could fit into the boxes using the already parts of the golem, moved the creature into this smaller sculpture and then dismantled it and put it in the boxes. So we have a 15 foot golem.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: We then take pieces off while it's disabled. It still has the blanket or whatever. We take out the parts and make a smaller sculpture. Then somehow they move the. The shadow realm creature from inside the golem, Inside the big version of the golem. Into. It's already trapped.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So just move it somehow, using technology or something. They move it.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: From one to the other. Now it's in the smaller version. Then they dismantle the smaller version, put it in these boxes, presumably using the same incantation that the blanket has.

Cristina: Probably.

Jack: Or the blanket is inside those boxes too. So you move the creature, you chop the blanket up, wrap each individual part, put each part into each box, wrapped inside of the blanket.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So that each part is completely immobile. The boxes are closed. You go to the middle of nowhere, you bury it in this graveyard. And now you have a golem in the graveyard.

Cristina: Maybe. I don't know. It's all weird. I don't know. It's very weird. So weird. Just the way they bury those boxes.

Jack: Yes. Everything else, as crazy as it is, checks out 100%. With everything else we know. Everything else works. The magic, the blood, the ichor, how they used adrenochrome, the fact that they took children, the Greek and the Egyptians being involved. Everything checks out 100%. The bread, all of it. All of it. All of it. Even, weirdly enough, us seeing the first bringing of something from the shadow realm, whatever, checks out with what we're learning little by little.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Yes. A hundred percent. And then we get to these boxes and I don't f****** know.

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: It just spins out of f****** control.

Cristina: Yeah, Yeah.

Jack: I have no idea.

Cristina: And that's the only story? Just some thieves.

Jack: That's the only mention of this.

Cristina: Okay. Just some thieves disappears after that.

Jack: Yep.

Cristina: Interesting.

Jack: And so do they. The golem is gone. Keep in mind there have been other golem, but this is the only golem. This is the reason. This is the first golem and the most important golem is because this is the golem with sentience.

Cristina: So the. Wait, what?

Jack: The other golems were essentially machines of some sort. They weren't creatures from the shadow realm, presumably. They were something else.

Cristina: Do you know how they made this one different?

Jack: I Don't know. I don't know. This rabbi was a g. This rabbi did something weird. The steps for all the other golems.

Cristina: Are the same with this one.

Jack: But this one had sentience.

Cristina: That's so crazy.

Jack: This golem took direct direction. It was made with direction from the voice of God. The other golems aren't. So they were cheap imitations.

Cristina: Yes. So that might be something to do with that. Okay. What?

Jack: The ritual was performed, but the voice of God had something specific it wanted to come through. And the stage was set for that to happen. And it worked. None of the other golems are of significance. None of the other. The other golems fall apart over time. They just wither away. The other golems don't have the ability to bring things from the shadow realm. They're just golems. They're what we know of golems.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: They're just golems. This golem, on the other hand, something unique had.

Cristina: It was alive and it could live forever and it could go back and forth. It had everything.

Jack: It had everything. It was something unique.

Cristina: Jesus. It's Jesus, but not.

Jack: It's Jesus. The golem.

Cristina: The golem.

Jack: It was called Joseph.

Cristina: Joseph.

Jack: Which is actually, weirdly enough, the Jewish translation of Jesus. Although we know Jesus real name was Emmanuel. But Joseph. And there's probably something happening there in which Jesus is being called Jesus when we know his name is Emmanuel and the Jewish word for Jesus is Joseph. And this golem was called Joseph.

Cristina: They're somehow based. One is based on the other.

Jack: Joseph is based on Jesus.

Cristina: Yes. He came after. Yes. Okay.

Jack: Long after. 1500 years later.

Cristina: Forgot. He's in the 1500s. So weird.

Jack: Yep.

Cristina: What? And have golems been seen in any stories recently, though?

Jack: There are stories of golems everywhere, but all the golems seem to. Although the process is more or less the same, to making them. They're just golems. Golems are just golems.

Cristina: Yeah. Nothing like.

Jack: Nothing like Joseph.

Cristina: The closest thing to Jesus.

Jack: Whoa. Made by the Jews in the 1500s. They had 1500 years to consider what Jesus was and make their own version of it.

Cristina: Well, they weren't doing that. The God. Whatever.

Jack: Yes, yes, exactly. Which we stopped coming in contact with following the birth of Jesus.

Cristina: I thought Jesus was in relation with him, but I guess not.

Jack: No, that's. With who? With the.

Cristina: This evil God probably is. Why would he try to base something off of Jesus, though?

Jack: Maybe Jesus was along for the ride on this one.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: What has Jesus been doing for the last 1500 years?

Cristina: I have no idea.

Jack: And let's think about this real quick. Yes, Jesus is born, Mount Kaf disappears, and Jehovah of Dark vanishes all in one. That seems like it's all connected.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Yeah, it checks out 100%.

Cristina: Yes. So, okay, Jesus is working with this guy and making another version of him. Jesus 2.0.

Jack: Or trying to figure out how to just bring things from the Shadow Realm over. Jesus can come over.

Cristina: Why do they want to have more come over? Like, what benefit do they get from it?

Jack: Well, they already try to set up a bunch of ways to come over. Tragedies and s***. To get people from this side who take adrenochrome and hear these things to commit tragedies. Intentionally create mass blood loss and horror. Absolutely.

Cristina: Because they enjoy feeding off of it.

Jack: Well, they need it to come through. The blood doesn't make them come through. The fear does. The fear mongering is the media. The fear mongering is these crazy stories and scary. Everything is scary. Oh, the coronavirus, also scary. Threats of war, also scary. Nothing ever happens. But the fear is what's necessary to bring these creatures over.

Cristina: But these creatures are. They're in love with our blood. Like where we get addicted to adrenochrome. They get addicted to our blood.

Jack: Those creatures don't give a s*** about our blood. Only things on this side care about our blood.

Cristina: Oh, okay. We don't have stories about creatures who are just murder for blood. That's not a thing.

Jack: Creatures trying to go to the Shadow Realm.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: It's just things trying to go to the Shadow Realm. Fear brings creatures from the Shadow Realm over.

Cristina: And you don't think they're here drinking blood.

Jack: I mean, it's not giving them a benefit, I suppose. Yes, there's like, for example, Wechuj or a Wendingo is what you're thinking about. That they'll, like, come and ravage somebody. But there's just. It's not even about the blood. They're just killing s***.

Cristina: Yeah, but then what's the point of them coming from there to here if it's not for something?

Jack: I mean, they're probably after the blood, but for no reason. A wechojino and dingo are just creatures addicted to the blood. That's all it is. And they die and cross over, and then they want to get back desperately. Because blood doesn't exist in the Shadow Realm.

Cristina: But why would Jesus want other things to come here?

Jack: Because the Djinn are sentient, thinking, clear minded, Creatures. And just like the Jinn, Jehovah of Dark is a thinking, sentient creature. There are things that think that want to come through that never existed on this side first. They're not after the blood.

Cristina: They just want to be over here.

Jack: There's something over here that they want. But again, we have no way of telling what that is. How would we?

Cristina: Yeah. Unless it has something to do with the other realm that we don't really know anything about.

Jack: Which could all come down to the sea people have something closer than everybody else does. And apparently maybe the Jews do too. That might allow. I still think the sea people might be miles ahead of the Jews. Yeah, which might. Again, I think the goal is ultimately getting into Elfame.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Yes, by any means that makes sense. And if that means crossover and steal the tech from people who are figuring it out, then so be it. Which then might be the original conflict between Jehovah of Light and Jehovah of Dark and all the other gods that do not like Jehovah of Light.

Cristina: It's about stealing that technology.

Jack: Yes. And moving from the palace of Alcaraz in the Persian Gulf oasis to Atlantis in the Atlantic Ocean is entirely about avoiding the elves and the gods of this realm and the gods of that realm. It's just. You're not getting to our s***. Our s*** is our s***.

Cristina: This is. Man, I don't know if we're closer to something or not. If we're closer, are we closer? Did we figure it out yet?

Jack: We got more info?

Cristina: Yeah, more info for sure.

Jack: The boxes are confusing. Like, everything checks out. The boxes are weird.

Cristina: The boxes are weird.

Jack: Everything else makes perfect sense. But the boxes are very strange. I don't know what that's about. There's something. There has to be a way to figure out what's up with these boxes. Now I gotta go all the way back and see what history exists between the Egyptians, what they have to say about these boxes, what the Mayans have to say about these boxes, what the Jews have to say about these boxes. They're the only people who know anything about the sea people and the magi or sea people.

Cristina: I want to know what the Jews thought. What was the evil technology? What were they calling evil technology?

Jack: Just referencing the technology of the sea people.

Cristina: But, like, they don't have any examples of that. Anyway.

Jack: I didn't find anything, but I can look harder, try to see if there's some mention of specifically what they're talking about. But I think it was a general statement as to the sea people defy God's way by following the path of technology, essentially.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: I think that's the general idea. I don't think there's more depth to it. I think it's like the usual argument of technology versus nature. I'm God, I am nature. And technology violates the usual. Science is evil because God is better. I think that's the argument. I don't think it's like that specific technology. I think it's just f*** technology because God said so.

Cristina: Well, what are these golem things? They're not technology.

Jack: It's magic. It's magic or it's not even magic. What's stopping it is magic. Then again, what's containing it? I don't understand. I don't. I don't. I don't understand. It's really complicated. The argument would be, yes, it's technology. It's technology using a combination of magic and power and science, which is all three realms which I feel like Earth realm of science. Elfame, the fairy realm of magic, the shadow realm of power. It's using of all three.

Cristina: Somehow the Egyptians had to have been doing something similar. No way. There has been.

Jack: It wouldn't make sense that the Egyptians are doing something and then the Jews are like, nah, that's horrible. Let's do it ourselves. That doesn't make any sense. For that, they should have just infiltrated the existing system and stolen that. Okay, but they leave and come up with a different way.

Cristina: Yeah, but if there is any stories, you should still check to see if there's.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, I'll look into it and.

Cristina: See if I can find anything, because maybe there's not. But it'd be very interesting if there's at least.

Jack: Yeah, I gotta look through all of these things just to answer any questions we haven't been able to answer. So it is what it is. If it's there, I'll stumble upon it. Yes, but that's what we got.

Cristina: That is so disturbing.

Jack: Golems.

Cristina: Golems from a statue in Switzerland?

Jack: Yep. Well, presumably that statue itself is a golem.

Cristina: Golem dressed up as Santa.

Jack: Jewish golem eating children.

Cristina: So horrible. Why. Why did someone want to share this story?

Jack: And it's unknown who funded this either. This is just put in plain sight. Nobody knows who paid for this.

Cristina: I mean, it's nowhere near this church or anything. Right. That'd be crazy. Yeah, that's true. Is there anything near the statue that.

Jack: Nope, I looked.

Cristina: Any churches?

Jack: No, no, nothing important. Nothing relative.

Cristina: Okay. It's just so random too.

Jack: The location, I think that was intentional. I think it's about putting it somewhere that it's hard to connect to the bigger picture so that it stands the test of time.

Cristina: Okay. Whoa.

Jack: Anyways, that's what we got disturbing. So if you guys want to hear about all other things relative to this crazy a** story that keeps unfolding for all of anything, you guys can message us about it. Anything you find when you do that, hit us up on our socials. Twitter now x Facebook, Instagram, tick tock@justconvopod.

Cristina: Remember to subscribe, rate and review the.

Jack: Show and word of mouth is important. Tell people that we are uncovering truth. The dark truths of everything that Jewish people have sacrificial things to make matzos and then eat that and then pour their blood over clay statues to then make golems.

Cristina: Whoa. This has been the Rambling podcast. Take nothing further though. Thanks for listening.

Jack: Bye.

Cristina: S.A. good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Colazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by Great Dots info, art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McAllister with social media managed by Amber Black.

Rambling 237: Elfame

How does magic factor into the realms? Where do fairies come from? Why does mount Athos have a barrier to magic? The duo unpack magic and it’s source and finally have a breakthrough that could explain the true intentions of the Sea People, the Garden of Eden and more!

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed:

  • Magic
  • Fairies
  • Elfame
  • Mab the Queen of Elfame
  • Elves
  • Oros
  • Naga
  • The Serpent
  • Sea People
  • Advanced Technology
  • Mount Athos

Episode Conclusions:

Our Links:

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod

Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod

Instagram - https://instagram.com/justconvopod


+Transcriipt

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: Your memory host, Christina.

Jack: And this is the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas. As everybody who's listened to this show consistently. No. We've been following a huge narrative and like, overturning every stone we can find adjacent to that. Anybody who's just arrived and has never heard any of our previous episodes, you should probably listen to the last maybe 10 to 15 episodes and like, catch up on what's been happening because it's maddening. But ultimately we've been figuring out that everything in all of time seems to connect mainly through religion. All the religions seem to be associated and be working together for some huge kind of COVID up. And not just a cover up. There's a lot of association between different things. There's a lot of powers at the adrenochromes and ways to cross into the shadow realm that shows itself everywhere. And civilizations that are highly advanced and we call gods, but are simply technologically advanced. But anyways, catch up. One important problem we keep coming across is the reason for people needing to contact the shadow realm or go there. And the most recent question we've been asking is, what the h***? Where does a unicorn come from? What are the fairies? Is the unicorn a fairy?

Cristina: Oh, yes.

Jack: And are the fruits technology? And if they're not technology, the fruits in the Garden of Eden, are they technology? Like Adam and Eve? And if they are not, are they magic? Better question, are they magic? Technology? Or in other words, technology based on magic?

Cristina: No, there's no magic. It's gotta be technology.

Jack: Then what is a fairy tale? Because we know that the gods of the mortal world themselves used to be mortal and have simply, through technological advancement over millions of years, escaped that mortality.

Cristina: So you're saying the fairies might actually be.

Jack: I'm saying the fairies might actually be magic. We know the shadow realm is something else.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Some form of actual power.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: But in Earth Realm it doesn't seem to be such a thing. Every time you dig deep enough, it just seems to be technology.

Cristina: Yeah. And these so called magical beings don't really have magic themselves. Like if you were to see them, you'd say, oh, that's like from a fantasy. Werewolf, whatever. But like there's nothing magical about these creatures they're murdering, which is in normal.

Jack: Ways, you know, and it's like even when there is something that might seem like Magic. There's a real biological thing happening, and it's being affected by power. Not magic from the shadow realm, specifically. Yeah, Just direct connection. And it's biological and scientific. You could calculate its effects. You could replicate it, which puts it in the realm of power. Because of science or biology? Well, I guess biology is science. It's science from a different realm.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But it doesn't seem to work that way with fairies. They seem to easily traverse without the need for these things that affect them biologically. They just have the ability to do it.

Cristina: So you think unicorns are fairies?

Jack: I do truly believe unicorns are fairies simply because they have this ability to just show up. The only other things we know that have the ability to just show up seem to be fairies. Now, this requires a pretty deep dive, but, oh, f****** boy. Did the deep dive payoff deep diving.

Cristina: Into unicorns and fairies or some whole.

Jack: Other thing into unicorns and fairies.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: So the main question about fairies is if they can jump from Earth realm to the shadow realm effortlessly. But the beings of the shadow realm have rules to cross, and the beams of Earth realm have rules to cross. They cannot be from either. It doesn't make any sense. At least that is the assumption I'm making. Well, following that assumption paid off. Let us open some of these doors. So, first, fairies exist in every single culture that has ever existed. Without exception. Without exception, without exception. Anywhere you look, they have mentions of fairies.

Cristina: You look throughout the world.

Jack: I looked at anything and everything I could find, and everybody has a mention for fairies. And we're not just talking cultures outside of religion. We're talking within every single religion you look, there are mentions of fairies, and they are never mentioned along God as one of the angels, as one of his. Their demigods is one of a deity. No, they're different.

Cristina: They're different. So the Bible, you're saying, also has.

Jack: The Bible as well? I mean, specifically, when we're talking about St. Patrick, he encounters fairies.

Cristina: Yes, but he's outside the Bible.

Jack: Yeah, but in. Within religion. Within religion specifically. I guess biblical text is more specific. But within religion.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Fairies seem to be everywhere. Now, not only do fairies seem to be everywhere, but they seem to show up simultaneously in all cultures around the very specific point, which happens to be about a hundred B.C.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: That's where mentions. Now, here's the weirdest part.

Cristina: What?

Jack: The mentions of fairies happened globally around this point. It wasn't like it just showed up here. These people mentioned it roughly around the same week that those people mentioned it.

Cristina: And what what was the timeline again?

Jack: About 100 B.C.100 B.C.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Everywhere. People who could not have crossed the Earth in this amount of time knew about fairies within the same year.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: What, so fairies just showed up everywhere, all at once? Fascinating.

Cristina: That is.

Jack: Every culture, every religion believes in them. They are not angels. They are not associated with any of that.

Cristina: Do you have any idea of why they showed up at that time?

Jack: Cannot tell you why.

Cristina: What do they want?

Jack: Do not know. Now, although all cultures and religions seem to have a shadow realm equivalent, the fairies are, in all instances, not connected to that place either. They are never mentioned as associated with those places.

Cristina: Is there a place they are associated with them?

Jack: We will get there. They are not part of Earthrealm. They are not part of the shadow realm.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And an interesting aspect is that they are always specifically close to certain beings.

Cristina: What do you mean?

Jack: I notice this pattern immediately, and you'll notice it, too, as I go down this list of just fairies, different kinds of fairies. So gnomes are fairies, goblins are fairies, elves are fairies. Nymphs are another word for elves. I did not know this.

Cristina: Nymphs. Okay.

Jack: Trolls are fairies. Leprechauns are fairies. We know. That's the obvious one. Along with pixies. Yeah, leprechauns. Unicorns aren't mentioned in any culture as fairies. But interesting enough, they're always mentioned where fairies happen to be.

Cristina: Okay, so these two beings might come from the same place.

Jack: They might come from the same place.

Cristina: If unicorns are not fairies, they're at least adjacent.

Jack: Yeah, very adjacent. Very important thing to mention. Now, elves and nymphs are the same thing. This is very exaggeratedly important because in Norse mythology, elves are where?

Cristina: I don't remember.

Jack: They're in Asgard, in a continent next to Asgard. They're up there in Asgard, as part of Asgard, in a continent next to Valhalla. There you go.

Cristina: That's important.

Jack: That's important, because. What are nymphs? Nymphs are just elves. Who uses that word? The Norse. And where are the nymphs? I mean. Yeah, the. The. My bad. Not the. The Greek use the word nymphs, and the Norse use the word elves.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And the nymphs hang out in Olympus with the gods. A pattern, random pattern. Both times the same creatures hanging out with the gods, but they themselves aren't gods. They're treated like gods. So, okay, I dive into elves. What's up? Elves? Why are you hanging out with the gods all the time? Come to find out, in every single culture, Elves have one very specific function. They reign over the natural forces. Mountains and rivers and oceans, all of those things. They keep natural order.

Cristina: Okay, so they are gods. They are gods.

Jack: Sort of. I suppose, if you want to call them that. Some people call them spirits, but again, they're just almost humanoid beings who just, like gods, do the thing or whatever.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Now, following nymphs and elves and all the different variants, they got same thing, different names. One thing keeps popping up. If you try to find out what the h*** they are, there's something called Elfame. Elfhame. I had no idea what Elfame was. And it was vague. It was mentioned over and over in different languages. But you look at what it means, and the word comes as Elfame. I'm like, what the h*** is Elfame? No matter where you go, you bring it back, and it's just Elfame.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And weirdly enough, in a lot of different languages, it's the same word. It's almost like hallelujah.

Cristina: And that's just. And that's just another word for elves.

Jack: No. So I had no idea what this was, and I had to dig pretty hard to sort of figure this out. Right. So Elfame seems to be directly connected to the elves and specifically to be the source of where their power comes from.

Cristina: Where their power comes from.

Jack: Where their power comes from. So Elfhame is some sort of thing. And one of these. The weirdest part about Elfhame is that it's mentioned in every culture and every religion, but mentioned differently everywhere, so that everybody has a separate piece. Weirdly enough, We've seen this before.

Cristina: We have.

Jack: With the sea people. Pieces everywhere.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But no whole picture. You need all the separate pieces to build sort of a puzzle.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And when you put the pieces together, you get an interesting word or phrase. Let's call it.

Cristina: Okay, what is it?

Jack: The realm of Elfhame.

Cristina: What does that mean? That means they come from a place, too.

Jack: They come from a place called Elfame.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Yes. And Elfame. When you then find what the realm of Elfane means, the most common, weirdly enough and stupid name, is Fairyland.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Fairyland.

Cristina: They're gonna say magic land, but okay, close enough.

Jack: Fairyland. Now, you look into Elfame, the realm of Elfame, and you immediately get one thing that just sticks way out. The name Mab. And when you follow the name Mab to a source, you get the queen of Elfame.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The highest power within Elfhame, the creator of everything within Elfame. Okay, fantastic. Now we're getting somewhere. We have a place and we have.

Cristina: A person who made it, who made everything in there. Okay.

Jack: All of the. I don't know if she made it. I know she's from there and she made everything in there.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Was she a product of Elfame or did she make Elfim? Don't know.

Cristina: Who knows? She might have came from here and then.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Who knows?

Jack: Who knows? Now described as the greatest of gods in Elfhame. And then the God of gods. Fascinating. So, stones getting turned over, things to note that immediately showed up. Elfame not only created all things, but through logical breakdown, everything must be removed from by one relative to her.

Cristina: What does that mean?

Jack: We'll revisit that sentence in a bit.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Elves come from Elame. Elves are the human equivalent of Elaine.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: They're people. Yeah, totally just people. Now, elves like the humans of Earthrealm or the Djinn of the Shadow Realm, come below the God. Right. Elves in the human world, Earth Realm, or the Djinn world, the Shadow Realm, even if they are the human equivalent, are about as powerful, slightly more than the gods of those respective realms.

Cristina: Okay. I mean, the oath are equal to our gods pretty much.

Jack: And to the gods of the Djinn. Very important sentence I found there. They are equal to the gods of the shadow realm. Thus confirming gods in the shadow realm. That's no longer a theory. Because when you're looking at Elfham, it particularly mentions the Shadow realm and actually refers to the elf to Earthrealm as Earthrealm. It differentiates and usually mentions three locations. It's not like Norse mythology that it mentions a bunch of different locations.

Cristina: Okay. Interesting.

Jack: So this actually brings up something we can. We came across in the last couple of weeks. Asgard and Midgard and Helheim. The fact that you can physically traverse these locations tells you calling them realms is incorrect. Those are physical destinations you can reach. Yeah, just like Olympus. You could just climb to the top. Those aren't other realms. Those aren't heavens. It's a place you could just go to as a normal mortal. If they weren't stopping you by force. Just places. According to Elfame and Mav, there are only three. Only three realms.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Earth Realm, the realm of Elfame and the Shadow Realm.

Cristina: And Mab is God again.

Jack: Mab is the God.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: So now we have to assume that there is no God as powerful as Mab. It's Mab on top, elves and the gods of the other realms. And then the Djinn and us. Fascinating.

Cristina: How is he much stronger? I don't understand.

Jack: Well, let's go down. What I found of Alphane. Alphane. The realm of the fairies God named Mab. The source of magic in all realms.

Cristina: Come over there.

Jack: What?

Cristina: It comes from there.

Jack: Comes from there.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Flows out of Elfame into the other realms. Which actually sides kind of perfectly with things that the Norse suggest. There's a flow in one direction.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: This one was very weird. How it showed up twice. And they used very similar language. All other realms orbit Elfame. Similar to how the planets orbit the sun and similar to how the sun orbits the black hole.

Cristina: What's that supposed to mean? I don't get it.

Jack: I don't understand how realms orbit. That's a confusing thought in general. But it showed up twice. This was written a hundred years BC.

Cristina: And we are orbiting them.

Jack: We are orbiting them. I don't know what that means. Because it's a realm. How do realms orbit?

Cristina: Yeah. Weird. Okay.

Jack: Now here is where things start to make more sense. Mab sends elves to the greatest civilizations of every realm to watch over and moderate the power of those beings over lesser beings.

Cristina: What she has.

Jack: She sends elves to the most powerful civilizations of. Of other realms to watch over and moderate their power over lesser beings.

Cristina: So she has some in the Shadow Realm.

Jack: So she has some in the Shadow Realm. This is gonna get way weirder as we keep going.

Cristina: This is pretty weird.

Jack: It's pretty weird. Now we're just deep diving in the magic.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So let's literally deep dive in the magic. Things I found out about magic. So magic can be used in other realms through many different ways. Incantations, material rituals, symbolic movements. Which is weird. I've never thought about that. But that's essentially what waving a wand is. I guess magic can be contained in other realms. This immediately made me think of three objects.

Cristina: Are they? I don't know.

Jack: Man. You exist. Lost the apples, obviously.

Cristina: Oh, well, I thought we weren't sure if those were objects. Like what exactly?

Jack: Well, we don't. We don't know. But that's. It made me think of those. That's all I said. It made me think of three objects. Runes, hexes and curses are all examples of containing magic within one of the realms. That is not Alphane. The flow happens. And you can trap the flow or not the flow we can trap what came in.

Cristina: Are just elves able to use this or we're using these. Two people are using these.

Jack: So actually I tried to establish that and it's incredibly unclear. It seems like the methods to using magic seem universal. Like the elves would contain the magic which is established. All beings of Elfame have magic Inherently within them. But then who's using these things? It's not established who's using these things, but if all the creatures of Elfame already have magic, they wouldn't need these things. They are magic themselves. So presumably these are all ways for the inhabitants of other realms to then use magic. Which, in thinking about runes and hexes and curses, it immediately makes me think of what we've called the gods and we found out are just really advanced creatures. They have not only mastered the sciences of our realm, but have learned how to literally use the magic of Elfhame.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: To move farther. Now the picture is getting more complete.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Starting to understand. Little. Little more.

Cristina: And she's not using anything that could be similar to Adam and Eve.

Jack: No, no, she can. She's the actual epitome of what everybody else calls themselves, as when there's claiming to be a God, she can just manifest things.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Now, things about magic. Magic can be used to move things between realms. So not only can the creatures of Alfeim seamlessly traverse between realms, but you can use the magic of Alphane to move things between realms. Basically, creatures within the other realms can use all the abilities that fairies have.

Cristina: Okay, so using the unicorns to do it.

Jack: Using the unicorns to move between realms.

Cristina: Unless there's stories of them using portals.

Jack: Without having fairies, the Elfame do not need portals. They can just move effortlessly between realms.

Cristina: Yeah, but I mean, like the sea people, when they went through portals, they always had unicorns.

Jack: So it seems to be the case that unicorns are exclusive to Mount Athos. And it doesn't seem that they necessarily use them to. As far as we know, because we don't really know what's happening at the very top of Mount Athos. We just know they come down, they trade, they interact. And we know the merry went up and poof, vanished. We also know that the sea people have highly advanced technologies. And we can surmise portal technology because they were moving instantaneously between Cyprus and Athos.

Cristina: Okay. Do you think they're using their portal technology, the portal technology?

Jack: Probably not taking them into any other place. I think it's just staying here. I think it's their way in and out of actual tech. It's. I think it's actual tech.

Cristina: Yes. Okay.

Jack: Hauntings are a way to attach a shadow realm being to an earthrealm anchor. That clarifies a lot.

Cristina: And who's trying to do that? This release. That part doesn't relate to the elves, does it? Are the elves doing that?

Jack: Anybody who can wield Magic can do that. It's a matter who's doing it. Anybody who's using magic to any degree, whether it's an elf who is magic or a person who discovered magic and.

Cristina: Is using it, just attached a fairy.

Jack: I mean, you can attach a Shadow Realm being to an Earth Realm anchor.

Cristina: That's crazy. Okay, this explains a lot.

Jack: Magic potions can move Earth Realm things into the Shadow Realm. Potion is just anything that you consume, which again, gives us a very specific thing. An apple, Something you can't consume.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Magic can alter states within other realms.

Cristina: What does that mean?

Jack: You can change structure, you can change physicality, you can violate the rules of nature. This gives us a couple of things. It says it could grant youth and it could literally end mortality. But also you can alter natural states of things that exist within the the realms. Rivers, mountains, Specifically mountains is the one that stands out because Mount Athos. Only until the top are no abilities capable of taking place, which means creatures were in fact or people were in fact using magic. And they get to Mount Athos and it just ceases to exist. So there's a barrier there that has been altered. And it seems like this mountain particularly was altered, perhaps by fairies themselves, to remove the ability for there to be magic there. There is something special about Mount Athos that is different to every other mountain. And the sea people have capitalized on that. I do not understand how and I do not understand why, but there is something about this mountain, in particular the sea people.

Cristina: And the fairies.

Jack: And the fairies. The fairies canceled out magic until the summit.

Cristina: That is so weird. What could that be about?

Jack: I do not know. It is very strange. Now, beings of Elfame, beings of elf fame, are generally considered more powerful than beings of the other realms which I established. Elves in Asgard, equal to the humans of Earth, but as powerful as the gods of Asgard. Because they're just humans. They're just the humans of Elfame. They're equivalent to humans, except they're as powerful as the gods. Now, the gods were once human.

Cristina: The gods in our realm, okay, they.

Jack: Were just maybe not necessarily human. That's probably a violation of logic. But like, they were an intelligent humanoid civilization that became highly advanced and discovered the magics of Elfane on top of mastered the technologies of earthrealm.

Cristina: They mostly, most likely came from Earth.

Jack: Yeah, it seems like everything that we have on this side came from Earth because they still need all these other things. They require all these other things. A good breakdown is to say power exists in the Shadow Realm, magic exists in the Realm of Elfane and Earthrealm has science. These are the ways that you advance through all of them. And we understand how to move from Earth realm to the shadow realm. And with enough time and experimentation using our sciences, we can figure out how to cross. And the same way the creatures in the shadow realm, using their power ability, have found a way to cross. But it seems like from either realm, there's no way into the fairy realm. There must be.

Cristina: So you found nothing with the shadow realm and fairy realm?

Jack: Yeah, there's nothing crossing into the fairy realm.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: There's nothing entering the fairy realm, as far as I know. And I was looking, it seems like entirely flows outwards. The only beings who can get there are the fairies, as far as I know. So elves in Asgard that are technically equal to the humans are as powerful as the gods of Asgard. Nymphs in Greece, equal to the humans of earthrealm, but as powerful as the gods of Olympus. So at all points, they are as powerful as the most advanced civilizations that have existed merely through magic ability. They're casually stronger than everything. Second, the elves are stronger than every other. Or more magical is a way to put this. They're more magical than every other fairy within Elfame. The elves are the pinnacle of magic.

Cristina: The elm.

Jack: Yes. There's nothing more magical than an elf.

Cristina: So there's other things.

Jack: There's a bunch of other things. I listed them at the beginning.

Cristina: They're not elves.

Jack: They're not elves. They're all fairies. Elves are also fairies and elves are fairies.

Cristina: Okay. And what's her name?

Jack: Mab.

Cristina: Mab. Is she an elf? Is she a fairy? Is she something else?

Jack: She's a God.

Cristina: She's a God.

Jack: She's a God. She's literally God. She's God of seemingly everything. She's. She's by no other definition, just purely God.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: So beings of Elfame, in every mythology and belief system seem to preside and maintain the balance and control of the map and the natural order of all the realms. Mainly rivers, forests, oceans, caves, and primarily mountains.

Cristina: Mountains, okay, Mountains.

Jack: Elves focus primarily on mountains. The most advanced civilizations station themselves on mountains.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: With the only exception being the most advanced of civilizations, the sea people, who opted into the polar opposite.

Cristina: Mountains feel like the point where every realm can meet at whether it's the shadow, Earth or Elfhame. Like you'd have all three meeting up on that mountain.

Jack: I was actually assuming the same thing.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: I had the same conclusion that especially when you consider that the Shadow Realm and EarthRealm are mirror versions of one another. That even if everything is twisted between the two points, the top of a mountain is still the top of a mountain in both.

Cristina: Wait, how? Like for the fairy? Is it also Amera? Or is it a whole different thing.

Jack: A whole different place? Okay, there's no.

Cristina: Well, it's not established because no one's ever been there.

Jack: Okay, now no one's ever been there. It's completely vague.

Cristina: It could be exactly the same. We had no idea.

Jack: But based on Mount Kaath, we know that the top of a mountain literally connects the Earth Realm and the Shadow Realm.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: See, People hit it. But that doesn't change the fact that it was literally a focal point where you could cross over. It was a literal gate. And other mountains seem to have some. Some reason that the most advanced civilizations stationed themselves on top of them. And when you don't have a mountain, you make a. What?

Cristina: You don't have a mountain, you make a sea base? I don't know.

Jack: No, you make a pyramid, you.

Cristina: Wait, what?

Jack: When you don't have a mountain, you make a pyramid. Interesting. What is a pyramid if not a man made mountain? Fascinating. Who gave people the technology to make the pyramids? The sea people. The sea people went where under the ocean? They have the ability to build a mountain underneath the ocean. They don't need a mountain. They can just make it. They get how to create the same point that allows the magic of mountains to happen somehow. And from whatever mountain they have that down there, they connect directly to Athos.

Cristina: That is so crazy.

Jack: Where are Jesus gates mostly found at?

Cristina: I feel like mountains.

Jack: Mountains. The answer to mountains. They are a focal point between all realms seemingly.

Cristina: That makes sense. And also all of them would be attracted to mountains because there's plants, magical plants growing on those mountains as well.

Jack: There's magical plans.

Cristina: Magic is literally coming out of those portals because of what's going on there.

Jack: Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Jack: Literal magic like focal points.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: That's why the elves focus on these points. The gods are going to chill on a mountain. Well, we got to make sure we keep them in check. Do the elves? So now let us talk about Mab for a bit. Mab made everything. We do not know where Mab came from. There's no explanation. We just know not everything here.

Cristina: Just everything there.

Jack: Mab made everything. And we do not know where Mab came from. Mab could have always been. She seems to be the ultimate version of God. I suppose in theory, Infinitely Being could be a state. But Mab could have been brought into existence. Meaning there's Some hierarchy around her we don't understand. But Mab had three initial creations.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So they're called the Nams in some religions. They're called the Fates in other religions. And they serve a very basic purpose. They are three female deities given powers above the elves, but below Mab.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The three are Calatho, Varandi, and Itsutsuya. And they all have very specific purposes.

Cristina: Is it similar to some raffles?

Jack: No.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But. Interesting comparison. Interesting way to. Because there are three. But the first one made was Clatho. And Clatho is responsible for providing life into the realms. She delivers the life directly into the womb.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Verandi is responsible for delivering the purpose into these lives.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And Itsatsuya is responsible for ending those lives.

Cristina: Ending those lives was what, man? What if Adam and Eve are based on that? And maybe what was the other one? The first. What was the first one that Adam, Eve and.

Jack: And Lilith.

Cristina: Lilith, yes. What if Lilith was a machine, too?

Jack: Well, we know that's wrong because Lilith used Adam.

Cristina: We know she was the first to be used with Adam. What if she's Death? But then why would death come first?

Jack: No, it doesn't make any sense. Unless we're using, like, some supernatural kind of. Then again, they do a lot of homework, too. But it could be that death came before all things.

Cristina: That's what I was going to say.

Jack: But here the suggestion is that death and life happen simultaneously. So that also checks out to some degree. But no, because we know that Adam and Eve are within our realm and used by Jehovah. That wouldn't be possible if they're so superior that they're stronger than the elves that would be presiding over Jehovah.

Cristina: No, but they could. I guess that would be just based on what these guys are doing then.

Jack: Well, presumably just everywhere else. They're trying to create life the same way that these goddesses were capable of doing. Okay, but now, sticking to what you've just tried to conclude and failed to conclude, there's one very, very, very interesting thing. Although Mab had three first creations, there is something that Mab has referred to as her greatest creation. We introduce Oros.

Cristina: What does Oros do?

Jack: Well, wrong question. What is Oros?

Cristina: Is where you should have come from? I don't know, because I would just assume it's a fairy, too. I don't know. Okay, what is it?

Jack: Maybe, I guess everything from elfing is considered a fairy.

Cristina: Okay, what makes it different? What is it?

Jack: Well, let me tell you. Oros is referred to as the great Cosmic Serpent.

Cristina: Okay, that Sounds familiar.

Jack: There's a very. I immediately think of Norse mythology. Yes, but no. Small potatoes. Small potatoes. Elfame is guardian of all elves within all civilizations of power. Elfhame watches over the elves.

Cristina: What is elf? Isn't Elfhame the name of the place?

Jack: I mean, not Elfhame. Oros watches over the elves.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Oros watches over the elves in all the civilizations that have great power that the elves are watching over. So the elves watch over the civilizations that the three goddesses deliver life to from the beginning before they're advanced. The three goddesses make the primitive life that evolves into this highly complicated life that then the elves watch over.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Oroz watches over the elves.

Cristina: Okay. That's why there's one snake around us and one snake with the garden.

Jack: Well, yes, you're definitely piecing it together the right way. Weirdly enough, Oros exists simultaneously within all realms and encircling the entire universe.

Cristina: So there's.

Jack: Oros is in more places than Mab. Oros is everywhere. Mab is just an elephant.

Cristina: Okay, so he's not the snake from the garden. Because if that happens to be the case, then are they also. Did they create a realm?

Jack: Well, let me then tell you the next most important piece of this puzzle that 100% answers. A lot. A lot.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Oros is the father of the Naga. The Naga are a serpent race that are distributed one per highly advanced civilization to be part of and assist as required within these civilizations, unlike the elves that watch over the Naga, have one single member of their tribe in each highly advanced civilization, thus answering who the serpent is in the garden.

Cristina: So that means they're in a different. There's another realm. It's a fake realm.

Jack: It's doesn't have. It doesn't have to be a realm. It doesn't. There's nothing about it making a realm. The serpent gets sent to assist.

Cristina: Oh, okay. So it's. So. So, okay.

Jack: There is a God fairy assisting every major civilization in different ways.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Interesting enough, there are three very distinct examples of this. We have the serpent assisting in the garden.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: We have the serpent watching over all of the realms in Norse mythology. And we have the serpent punishing people in Greek mythology.

Cristina: Is the serpent punishing people?

Jack: Medusa. Oh, they're all just fairies approaching differently. They're all doing exactly the same thing, though.

Cristina: What is Matsud? Medusa. How?

Jack: While the serpent watches around the realms because the gods, the most advanced civilizations of the Norse ideology, are also watching around. The Greek gods aren't watching s***. They're ruthless. Monsters that go around destroying whatever the f*** they come across. So what is Medusa doing? She's also going around destroying whatever the f*** she comes across. While the gods of Christianity are doing what they're creating, they're building. So the serpent is doing what? It's building, it's creating. It's always aligned with. With whatever the strongest civilization is doing. And it's partaking equally. It's there to assist purely.

Cristina: Oh, snap. Okay. Interesting. That is weird. That is so weird. What? What?

Jack: Fascinating. No.

Cristina: Yes, that makes sense.

Jack: In every case it looks very different, so you'd never conflate them. Yeah, but if you just think of what the gods, quote gods unquote in each one of these scenarios is doing, then the serpent is ultimately doing the same thing. In every scenario, the Asgardian gods are detached or watching from a distance. So the snake is doing what? It's detached, it's watching from a distance.

Cristina: Do we have any snakes in the Shadow Realm that we know about? Do you remember?

Jack: There's no way. I don't know. I have no idea. We can only. We only have the rel. We'd have to somehow get religious texts from the Shadow Realm. And that seems impossible.

Cristina: Okay, yeah.

Jack: But there's some very consistent themes happening here. Every civilization has the elves. Every civilization has the serpents. The serpents are all son of Oros.

Cristina: And these three gods, mini gods, whatever. The goddesses. Where. Where are they? Are they just in the fairy place?

Jack: That is unclear. That is entirely unclear. I haven't the slightest clue. Okay, we don't know where those gods are. We don't know if Elfame. Not Elfame, if Mab ever leaves. Elfame. Okay, we don't know if her three goddesses leave Elfhame. We know that Oros does. But Oros is everywhere.

Cristina: So he's not leaving.

Jack: Yeah, he's not. He's not leaving. He just kind of is.

Cristina: He just is. Yeah, yeah.

Jack: And then he is the father of.

Cristina: The Naga, which are everywhere.

Jack: One her advanced, highly developed God like civilization. Okay, so presumably he gives birth to a new one. When a civilization reaches a certain point and is there to assist objectively. Doesn't seem to bother Naga. It doesn't seem to bother Elfame. Doesn't seem to bother the goddesses. Just there to assist. However the civilization requires.

Cristina: That is so crazy.

Jack: But why? But why? Especially with Naga, the Naga. What are the Naga doing? Why?

Cristina: Why?

Jack: Why are they assisting?

Cristina: Besides that. They were made for that.

Jack: Why were they made for that? What's. Okay, then that's let's ignore the Naga. Their purpose is to do this. Why did Oros make them for that? Also, is Oros short for Ouroboros? Maybe all encompassing snake.

Cristina: Yeah, okay, just.

Jack: Just a thought. I don't know. Didn't say anything about that. That's just me spitballing out here.

Cristina: Huh? But why?

Jack: But why?

Cristina: But why?

Jack: Mab makes absolute sense. God makes stuff. Yeah, fine, great. Sweet.

Cristina: Whatever.

Jack: Everybody else we know is trying to imitate Map.

Cristina: Yes, sweet.

Jack: Fantastic. If we follow the logic we've established a long time ago and there's gods trying to reach the bigger God, pinnacle. Their entire goal is to become map or conquer. Map or enter the fairy realm. Who the h***.

Cristina: Something like that.

Jack: Something like that. We have a direction to look now. And Mab makes goddesses. Right. Okay, this is totally on point with what we would understand. Yeah, checks out.

Cristina: All that makes sense.

Jack: All of it makes sense. Civilization within Elfame totally makes perfect sense. And creating elves to watch over other civilizations totally makes absolute sense. Yes. They're not interfering, they're watching over. Don't get too powerful. Don't harm the little people. Fantastic. Great. So if you created the elves to do this, and then you go out of your way and make Oros, and then Oros decides to make Medusa. Yeah, definitely.

Cristina: Then the God wasn't planning on him doing that. Like, she probably didn't seem to care. Yeah, when she made him, that wasn't part of her plan.

Jack: I'm saying that means something would exist outside of her plan. And then we're back to the whole she can't be with the God of gods. Well, okay, so being the God of.

Cristina: Gods, this has to be part of her plan.

Jack: Does there need to be a plan?

Cristina: Oh, yes.

Jack: I don't know this very Christian of you. Yeah, yeah, but does there need. I don't think there needs to be a plan. My point is, like, why isn't there a conflict of interest here? You make the elves to watch over to make sure they don't. Or is it. Or is it to keep a check on their power? To what? Yeah, the elves watching over the most advanced civilizations is entirely to keep a check on their power. So even if Oros makes the Naga, the Naga aren't stronger than the elves, even if Oroz is. Okay, so that. Yeah, sure, you might help in any manner, shape or form, but the elves are preventing them from ever getting powerful enough to either enter Elfhame or overthrow one of the goddesses. Or overthrow Mabs.

Cristina: There's too many questions. I don't know it's so confusing. I don't know. There's so much happening. Whoa. So many new rules. But it fits.

Jack: It fits. Everything is connecting somehow.

Cristina: I just don't get it. What? Why? That is a good question. Why?

Jack: Why? Why Oros? Why is Oros doing it? If the elves exist again, it could just be. Theoretically, if we were to put this into perspective, it could really be that the elves are there as a cap to the most advanced civilizations. Because we know that these advanced civilizations are trying to establish something and they're sitting on top of mountains, which gives us a clear suggestion. If mountains are the cross through realms. They're probably in every instance trying to get to the fairy realm. But there's some. Some pieces missing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: That allows them to understand how to do so. And they can cross. They figured out how to cross between at least EarthRealm and the Shadow Realm. There's many different rules and many different abilities to do so. And they've managed to confine magic in ways to wield it and use it.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: But never bridge gap to Elfame.

Cristina: It's probably not possible. You think it's possible?

Jack: I don't know. I don't know.

Cristina: But you think if it is possible, these elves are stopping that from happening.

Jack: These elves are probably stopping that from happening. If it is possible. Because specifically said that they're watching over the most developed and advanced of civilizations.

Cristina: What could they possibly care about?

Jack: What could they care about? They're just living their lives right next to the Asgardians.

Cristina: They're jumping back and forth from all these different realms.

Jack: When the Greek gods are called into higher court, the elves join them. Why? You don't want them to conspire and do things you're not aware of. But why?

Cristina: But why?

Jack: But why? It's. It seems like they're designed as a.

Cristina: Cap, I think so just to keep them away from their home, from Elfame.

Jack: So then the question is, we know that a lot of these highly advanced civilizations that we refer to as gods are significantly more powerful than the other fairies. We know this because we have examples of people developing incredible amounts of power. A good example is St. Peter. Exaggerated amounts of power that you could just deflect these things. Easy, casual. There's no way in h***. The sea people can't just s*** on every other elf. Not elf, every other fairy, minus the elves. Interesting enough. I don't know of a mention of elves watching over the sea people. That's interesting. There must be.

Cristina: There must be. They have. They have the snake dye.

Jack: They have. Yeah. The Naga.

Cristina: Yeah, Serpent. So they have to have elves as well. They're mostly not fairies. Unicorns. Unicorns have to be related somehow.

Jack: Unicorns, they don't have unicorns. Are in Athos and only in Athos. Have only ever been seen in Athos. Have only ever mentioned related to Athos. There's no other mention of unicorns anywhere else. And anybody who has talked about them pointed towards Athos.

Cristina: But they were the ones with the unicorns, weren't they?

Jack: They're the ones with mention to unicorns because they're also the ones on Mount Athos.

Cristina: Oh, I thought they were writing down on unicorns on Mount Athos. Yes.

Jack: Never been a mention of unicorns outside of Athos. It seems that unicorns aren't related to the sea people. They're related to Mount Athos. Okay, but also, why the. Aren't unicorns anywhere else?

Cristina: Yes. If they're fairies, many magical mountain tops that they could be hanging out.

Jack: It could be anywhere. Just Mount Athos. There's something about Mount Athos, a specific. Mount Athos is the only place with unicorns that are most likely an animal of the fairy world. And Mount Athos is the only place on earth, as far as we know, that has magic literally disabled from the bottom all the way to the summit. And only at the summit is there. So maybe, in theory, the fairies didn't even remove the magic there. Maybe that mountain stops the fairies from using their ability and showing up. And the only people who have figured out how to do that are the sea people, which would also explain why we don't have elves mentioned with the sea people. Because they've managed to keep the elves away because they can easily disable an entire mountain. They can shut down a whole mountain. That is magic. Or not magic, but a connection between portals. Are the sea people getting too powerful? And that's the real problem. They can again, Mount Athos. They can just stop magic.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: All the way to the summit. You have to meet us where we want you. You can't surprise us. You got to show up where we are, where we want you. You're at a focal point. Ooh. You can't go anywhere.

Cristina: So then maybe they're hiding from fairies because we know they're hiding from something.

Jack: Fair enough. Oh, my freaking God. Are they hiding from the freaking elves? And thus building these technologies using as well as using magics as well, and the bypasses that prevent them, that make them not need adrenochrome. So they don't need adrenochrome to Cross. They have other methods. The fruits, which are essentially magic, which are more powerful than adrenochrome because they can go not only to the shadow realm, but maybe these fruits are allowing them more than that.

Cristina: Like what?

Jack: The ability to cross the fairy realm.

Cristina: No way. Or.

Jack: That is the plan.

Cristina: That's the plan.

Jack: That's the plan. So the sea people cancel out Man Tathos.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And the fairies can't show up there. That's why the unicorns are only there because unicorns are trapped there.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: They can't leave.

Cristina: They can't go back to the ferry.

Jack: They can't use their magic abilities to just pop in and out. They're just stuck there.

Cristina: Ah.

Jack: And then they just use them to ride around the mountain. F*** that. They're ours. They belong to us.

Cristina: Yeah, on that specific mountain.

Jack: On that specific mountain. And then the top of the mountain is the only place where transactions could happen. But the fairies already know this is a f***** up mountain. We're not going there because then we can get trapped there too. The elves aren't gonna go there, okay? Because they could be trapped there. There's no magic on Mount Athos, and they're literally beings of magic, so they can't make it there. Whatever power they used to disable magic on Mount Athos is the same s*** they were using when they were in the Persian Gulf oasis. But everybody knew where the f*** that was.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So even if we can't magically pop up there, we can magically pop up somewhere else and travel there. So instead, let us go somewhere else and disable magic there where you couldn't get to us without magic, we or our specific technology. But also you couldn't get to us with magic because like Mount Athos, we've disabled it. And you don't have our technologies. So they successfully hide from all of the most advanced civilizations and all of the beings of magic because they just can't get down there. They don't. They can't use magic around Atlantis. Atlantis is a barrier for magic.

Cristina: What? Okay, what does this mean? I don't understand. Is there a bad guy to the story? Maybe there's not. I don't know.

Jack: And are the Naga. The Naga have to be magic, right?

Cristina: Which ones are the Nagas?

Jack: Oh, the Sons of Oros.

Cristina: Wait, why is everyone hanging out with them?

Jack: Exactly. It's so broken.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Is he a traitor?

Cristina: Is he trapped?

Jack: He also isn't teleporting or anything. He's just chilling there. He's one of them.

Cristina: He might be Trapped.

Jack: He might be trapped. He might be. Yeah. He might just be trapped.

Cristina: The unicorns, they might have trapped the snake.

Jack: Yeah, yeah. Are the sea people getting really intense? And it's like the Elfham are like, f***. Like, f***. They figured this out underneath our noses.

Cristina: They're just kidnapping them. What?

Jack: Well, the Naga, specifically, yeah.

Cristina: Still pretty crazy.

Jack: The plot thickens.

Cristina: Yes. What does it mean, though?

Jack: What does it mean? Right, right.

Cristina: Nonsense. I don't know.

Jack: What does it mean?

Cristina: What does it mean? Are they. What is the goal?

Jack: What is the goal? The theory is, what we've established now is okay, yes, definitely. Most likely because doesn't make sense for the creatures of Elfame to create a barrier on the mountain because they need to be able to use magic to get there.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So somebody else did. But who is on that mountain? The sea people or. They're not on that mountain. They're never going to be on that mountain because it's a traversable location.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: They leave only a single spot on the very top. Only a single spot on the very top. Everywhere else on that mountain, magic is impossible. And if you were to go to that spot on the very top, well, you're where they would want you. So there's no way in h*** a fairy would go there. Because you'd be caught.

Cristina: Yes. It also stops. Like Shadow Realm creatures, too, or is it just a fairy trap?

Jack: Well, Shadow Realm creatures aren't magic.

Cristina: Okay, so it just works on magical creatures.

Jack: Shadow Realm creatures, when they cross to this side, in theory, function the way we do, they're just different. Then again. Then again, when we look at the wet judge and when we look at the Djinn, one, they're kind of almost literally shadows. And two, there's an ethereal thing to them. Translucent, kind of ghostly. So I don't know. Power works so differently.

Cristina: We don't know any stories about the sea people using Shadow Realm creatures or anything?

Jack: No, they specifically avoid using even Adrenochrome, which is the original connection to that site. They don't care about the Shadow Realm. The Shadow Realm isn't their goal.

Cristina: Except for Jesus was one of them.

Jack: Jesus, who's aligned with the Shadow Realm, but does.

Cristina: What does he think of the fairies? And what do the fairies think of him?

Jack: I don't know.

Cristina: I don't understand.

Jack: But now we know why it was important to cast him out. Because people were having visions of them. Yeah, you're gonna go kind of escape. It wasn't to escape the other gods. The other gods have nothing on the sea people they're overpowered. You guys can't do s*** to us. But the fairies can.

Cristina: Oh, yeah.

Jack: They were hiding from the fairies. They were hiding from something. It was about the fairies. We can't let the fairies know where we are because we're going to keep developing whatever we're developing.

Cristina: So even the fairies are dreaming of Jesus then?

Jack: Maybe. Or not necessarily. Because the fairies can contact somebody who had visions and find out where they are. Okay, but outside the point, because then are Adam and Eve. Their attempt to pause. Dramatic pause, make their own fairies. They have the serpent.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: They already managed to make life many different ways with Adam.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: They refined it to come up with us. They have the fruits. All of which seem to be magical to some degree.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: But they're not done. We need to continue working with this. We need to hide this project and keep working on it. What else could there be it the other creatures weren't trying to get Adam and Eve and the fruits to make life, just normal life. That doesn't make sense. They want their own slave fairies and they know there's only one civilization that's on its way to do it.

Cristina: Mmm.

Jack: Sea people. The same people that explains the wars that were fought over Alcaraz, the Palace of Alcaraz at the Persian Gulf oasis, the Tanker War. Because they're trying to Anything, anything. They can come up with any shred of information that may help them or guide them or where the f*** are these people? Or how do we get to them? Or how.

Cristina: So no matter how advanced they are, which they are incredibly, incredibly advanced.

Jack: Ridiculous.

Cristina: Probably still haven't figured out how to make fairies.

Jack: That's the point of staying in absolute secrecy. Because once they do come up with their own fairies, if they can make up their own fairies, then these fairies would be. In theory, it would be controlling fairies. That's the goal. And then they would be so exaggeratedly overpowered. Nevertheless, you'd have a way into Helfhain. You'd have literal fairies who. If you can't go in, it doesn't matter. Send your army in just to see.

Cristina: What'S on the other side. That'd be crazy. I mean, it's not just for that, but just to see the other side.

Jack: Proof that we can send something over.

Cristina: Yeah. Whoa. What could this man.

Jack: So the sea people get really, really advanced and they're probably being watched by something. Presumably they're being watched by the elves. Obviously the elves are somewhere. We don't know where, but there's somewhere around them, close, nearby. When they're living in the Persian Gulf oasis. Absolutely. Fine, great. But they make a breakthrough, and. Or they're about to make a breakthrough. They know something that they don't want released. And before they get to that point, there's this kid. People are having visions of this kid.

Cristina: Yeah, like f***. Get rid of this problem.

Jack: We get rid of the lady. She can join us later. She wants to join us, but we got to get rid of the kid. She's on board. She's going to go have the kid. She can join us. Fine. The goal is get somewhere where there's no visions happening of your place. You can take the garden. They have the apples and Adam and Eve. Three people. Three primary people on the project. One is a literal fairy that you've somehow caught. Now, portal technology, Cypress to Athos. But wait, before we do this, let's cancel out Athos, okay? Because we need Mary to get there to could just follow Mary. We're gonna make them not be able to follow Mary. Mary's gonna use a portal to get to Athos. They could never cross the portal because they would just disappear on the other side because magic can't exist there. Boom. Okay, so far so good.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So they cross over. Or if they do cross over to just people. We can f*** them up. It's easy. We'll capture more of them. Maybe they have cap. Holy s***. Maybe that's why we don't hear fairies relative to the sea people. Maybe they did catch all their fairies. Maybe the fairies were doing their job, the elves were doing their jobs and followed Mary through the gate into Mount Athos, where their abilities were canceled. Maybe that was the original purpose. Their abilities get canceled. Now you're just people over here. But we're technology. You cannot f*** with this. Slaves. People to experiment on. Probably you take them across into Atlantis. There's no way down there. It's too f****** deep. There's no technology that people have that can get them down there. It's exaggerated, but they know how to do it. Also, they can cloak themselves. And also they can create barriers of magic. So no other magic creature can get down there and no technology can get down there. Unless you have our technology. And only we have our technology. Nobody else has our technology. So they get down there to get Mary back down there.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: We never hear from Mary again. Where'd she go? Okay, she's down there. The serpent is down there. The unicorns are stuck on the mountain. They cannot poof out.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: They cannot poof out.

Cristina: I don't think so.

Jack: So they're trapped there. But they didn't need the unicorns. Those are our rides out here. They already like Pegasus. They like fancy rides. These are the fanciest of rides. Unicorns.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But the elves are gone too. Mary and the elves are gone. Which is also why having Knights Templar is important. Erase all the data. Erase everything. We can't have anybody catch up. Scientifically. We can't have anybody understand the truth. The more vague the better. Because then we have more time to work on our s***.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: They're down there. They're working three apples that are magic. The program Adam and Eve. The goal is some cross of these things. It was always a point. The point was always some cross of Adam and Eve and the fruits. That was the goal.

Cristina: Because that somehow equals fairy.

Jack: That somehow equals fairy. Life plus magic equals fairy. Simple. They managed to like runes. The apples are like runes. And we have the ability to create highly advanced life. That's almost at where we are in one shot. How do we cross these magic apples with the ability to create highly advanced life in one shot? Fairy would be the.

Cristina: So is Jesus the closest thing to a fairy that we have. If he ate one of the apples. S***.

Jack: S***. Not only. Oh, f***. I think you cracked something right now. Not only did he not need the apple, but maybe Jesus was the first attempt at this and that's why Mary didn't have a f******. Like Jesus didn't have a father. Jesus was the first attempt at this and it f***** up the first fairy. The first Earth Realm fairy.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: He was thus explaining the abilities he just had without the technology.

Cristina: Except when people are having visions of him, they still freaked out.

Jack: Yes. Problem.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And it wasn't. He didn't see still. Or maybe he did. I don't f****** know. Maybe dying still. Jesus might have. No, he needed the gates. So it was a failed experiment. But that it was still a lot going on there.

Cristina: Yeah. And if they're ever going to try again, it's not going to be anytime soon after Jesus. Because they saw.

Jack: They saw way more perfect. And also they're probably not going to do it in Atlantis anymore the way they did when they were in the Persian Gulf oasis.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: They're probably gonna do it on Mount Athos. And that's why nobody's allowed to the top of Athos. Not only is magic prohibited there, but there's a plethora of people stopping others from getting to the top. So though there might just be a lab on top of Athos as well. Is everything else where they would be literally Run. They come through the gate. They show up on top of Athos. Run the experiment. No magical creature can follow that gate, and nobody can get up there without permission. And only one person is allowed up there. And they know that the sea people will wreck s*** if they violate that rule. It's down packed.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And Jesus was the first, and it was a failed experiment, but still absolutely overpowered.

Cristina: Ridiculously.

Jack: Ridiculously.

Cristina: Whoa.

Jack: And then allowed Jesus. So maybe even without the fruit, communicate with creatures in the shadow realm. So Jesus was always hearing some s***.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: But also, what is a feature of fairies? They can cross realms. So if they can cross the realms, they can presumably move through the realms within the realms very easily. That explains people seeing Jesus in many different places at random times. Very closely related. He can just move around a realm even if he can't easily teleport to another realm.

Cristina: But can he go into the fairy realm?

Jack: But can he go into the fairy realm? Well, no. He still needed gates to come back from the shadow realm. So moving through realms, which was your primary goal, still failed.

Cristina: Okay. He's got some fairy elements, but not all of them. Not all of them. Okay. Okay.

Jack: Yeah. And we don't have any news of fairies until I go through all these other cultures. Even Zoroastrianism has fairies, but the sea people in particular have no mention of fairies, particularly the elves, which suggests maybe they perhaps did already capture the fairies and that's how they managed to create Jesus in the first place.

Cristina: That worked out so quickly because it popped up. The fairies popped up here 100 years before Jesus. That's how fast the.

Jack: Easy, quick. Overpowered.

Cristina: That makes sense. That definitely makes sense, because they're already overpowered.

Jack: Another detail here would be that the elves were only sent because the sea people were getting too strong.

Cristina: Oh, crap.

Jack: They were the reason that Mabs sent the elves. And so, okay. We didn't manage to stop the sea people, but we kept everybody else in check.

Cristina: What? Yes. Crazy.

Jack: The moment the fairies showed up, they caught him. So ma' am got paranoid. I didn't. I forgot about that detail. They showed up a hundred years before Christ.

Cristina: Yes. That's fast.

Jack: That's fast. They instantaneously caught them.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: They knew of other fairies. Fairies have always been around, but the elves had no reason to interact with. And the second. The second they showed up, sea people got a hold of them. They're like, no way. We're stronger. So they were already stronger than the fairies. So they are stronger than the elves that are stronger than most advanced civilizations. Mabs Miscalculated. And that whole fleet of however many caught, including the serpent.

Cristina: That's very big.

Jack: No, not the big serpent.

Cristina: No, that's big. Like for her.

Jack: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cristina: It's crazy.

Jack: The sea people are.

Cristina: They're overpowered.

Jack: They're overpowered. We knew they were powerful. We had no sense of safety.

Cristina: Even to the fairies are overpowered.

Jack: Even to the fairies are overpowered and.

Cristina: Don'T understand how that's possible. I mean, I do, but still it's really strange.

Jack: It's a whole other mess.

Cristina: But we still haven't figured out. I mean, they're still really ridiculous. Oh, man.

Jack: So Jesus is half human or whatever. I don't actually know how sea people are human. There's no way to know that one. But there. He's half sea person.

Cristina: Sea person? Yeah.

Jack: And half magic, which suggests he's half sea person, half fairy. And the halfness is up. His ability to move seamlessly through. And that's the only thing keeping the fairies in Elfame safe. Because he managed to capture the elves and they managed to capture the serpent.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And they managed to capture the unicorns. They meant. Okay, magic is not a problem for the sea people. Basically that s*** is just some other bottom ground s***.

Cristina: But they're still worried about something.

Jack: They just wanted to do this in secrecy. That's all it was. They needed to do this. And they don't want people to have visions and perhaps see the tech. Have visions and know what's happening. Have visions and advance themselves based on the visions. Have visions and get there and steal the tech.

Cristina: So don't think they fear the shadow creatures at all. Think that's no problem at this point.

Jack: Unless. No, because. No, because the elves are stronger than whatever's in the shadow realm.

Cristina: And these gods, though, or these. What we would call gods that are not elves.

Jack: Advanced civilizations.

Cristina: Yeah. Yeah. Like they're probably not worried about those either.

Jack: They might be. I don't know. Because the. The. Presumably the creatures in the shadow realm are also aiming to enter Alphane. Everything wants the power of Elfhame, which is the highest grade of power. It's a power struggle.

Cristina: Yes. That the sea people are obviously winning in by miles.

Jack: Everybody else is being kept in check by the elves. The sea people are keeping the elves in check. That's where we stand.

Cristina: Okay. Whoa. How's that possible? But it makes sense. It makes sense. Jesus makes sense now.

Jack: Jesus makes absolute sense. We know what Jesus is. We know why Mount Athos doesn't allow magic. We know that making Mount Kaath disappear is just hindering more creatures from figuring s*** out. We know that hiding away from the Oasis and going into Atlantis is just a way to make reaching them more complicated. Go to the furthest down bottom part of the ocean and they're gonna struggle. So there's no way to get to you. You're too far down. There's no tech that can get to you. Only you have the tech to do it. And then you could work on the apples, Adam and Eve. And you had one person get crooked. You your risk. Get rid of Lilith.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Jehovah and the serpent remain amongst whoever else is there. That might be some background helping hand. But the serpent is very important because they're there. The serpent had maybe one of two options. You can assist or die. Or f****** die. Be an experiment like the rest of them. Yes, but one directive to assist. Maybe it wasn't even a threat. Maybe the serpent's job is just to assist.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And there's not even a question. Maybe it's like, yeah, whatever, I'm here for that.

Cristina: Oh, yes. Like, they don't have to threaten him.

Jack: They don't have to threaten him. The elves had to be threatened. Captured, subdued. Dude tested on the serpent is probably one of the ones testing on them.

Cristina: And also being tested on like.

Jack: I mean, the serpent's probably down. Yeah, like, whatever.

Cristina: Yeah, sure. The job.

Jack: Yeah, my job is to help. However.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: That's all I got.

Cristina: That's crazy. That's crazy. The answer is a lot.

Jack: The answer is a lot. We're getting. We're getting somewhere. And now we know about fame.

Cristina: Whoa. What? Like, what could. How. Where could we go from here? It feels like so much has been solved.

Jack: Yeah. I think everything of earthrealm has been solved. I think everything of earthrealm has been solved. Now there's probably random, obscure, useless questions that are left.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: But now to find what details of Elfamer missed out and if the Shadow Realm is really involved in the same quest, which I do believe might be the case.

Cristina: I think so. I think they are. But yes. Let's find out.

Jack: Anyways. If you guys are enjoying what is being found here and you have any input, if you're making connections that we're not. Tell us, tell us. Send us messages. You can reach us on all the socials. Just convopod on TikTok, Facebook, Facebook, Instagram.

Cristina: And X. Oh, so dumb. And X, remember to subscribe and review the show.

Jack: Yes. And tell everybody we're figuring out the thing that's probably gonna get us murdered, but nobody wanted us to know specifically. The sea people were, like, busting that. That case wide open. They're gonna come for us eventually if we suddenly just stop making episodes. You know, this is se people. They got to us.

Cristina: Yes, this has been the Rambling podcast. Take nothing personal, and thanks for listening. Bye. S.A. good morning. Good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by great dots.info art by 0lupo and logo by Seth McAllister, with social media managed by Amber Black.



Rambling 215: Mount Athos

Why does everything come back to Mount Athos? What is really going on with this mountain? What is being hidden from the public eye? The duo continue their investigation of Mount Athos and the strange occurrences that keep pointing to something on this mountain. The twists and turns that the research goes through leads to a few revelations never before concluded, but more impressively some new questions arise!

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed:

  • Atlanteans
  • Unicorns
  • A Russian Named John
  • Sacred Russian Bestiaries
  • Athos the Giant
  • Athos vs Poseidon
  • Burial Ground
  • Eastern Orthodox Monasteries
  • Holy Relics, Icons, Mosaics
  • Virgin Mary
  • The Summit Athos

Our Links:

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod

Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod

Instagram - https://instagram.com/justconvopod


+Transcript

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And this is the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas. And recently we've had quite the spiral of strange circumstances. And like, I. I don't. I don't know. 1. The hole seems infinite. I keep falling down the same freaking hole. The problem is that every different angle I look from it at, it's. There's so much more. Just so much more.

Cristina: More unicorns or more somehow.

Jack: All of the above. So the last couple of weeks, kind of like going on a month or a month and a half or something. I don't even know at this point. We've just been on this because there's more and there's more, and like last week we didn't even get to all this stuff, but this week we're not even gonna get to the stuff that we didn't get to last week, because this stuff that I'm getting to this week is more important than the stuff that was there last week. And the stuff from last week that we didn't get to is going to be in a different, different week's episode because it surprisingly enough connected to a bunch of other stuff. They had nothing to do with my original idea for what they were. It's like, oh, my God, this one. One. Let's. Let's take a huge step back. We're talking about a merchant, unicorns, Atlantis, an equator that exists there's no way nobody could ever know about. There is a bunch of advanced civilizations, a bunch of technology, people who shouldn't be places and know things that they do know. Somehow the beginning of humanity with information that they shouldn't have had, language happening way after a bunch of technological advancements. That doesn't make any sense. Except it does if you include Atlantis on the equator as the advanced civilization that's giving everybody the data in the first place because they were the first advance and thus explaining away most of this. But. But all of this, all of this comes back to one place. I thought it was originally coming back to the Atlanteans.

Cristina: Oh, I was gonna say that.

Jack: Okay, they're there, they're definitely present. But the Atlanteans apparently weren't even the point. But also, it wasn't the Greek, and also it wasn't the unicorns. And also none of the above. But all of the above at the Same time. So recap. There is an ancient equator, and the ancient equator has a bunch of civilizations that settled on it, but they settled on it about 480 million years after it was no longer existing. And there was no way for them to know it existed because science has not been invented yet for them to run the calculations that allowed them to even know the equator existed in this fashion.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: But somehow they still managed to do this about 7,000 years before they would have had the knowledge. Okay, fantastic. Problems for days. But then we, you know, figured that although these monuments and these civilizations are highly advanced and intelligent for what they're doing without any of the tools, there was a one group of people who were well placed. Enough. The Atlanteans, that had advanced technologies enough, according to all the sources.

Cristina: Apparently, yes.

Jack: And they were positioned so tactically in the right place that they can reach all the places. And according to a bunch of people, not only did they have technology, but they also had flying freaking horses, which is a hugely important detail.

Cristina: Is there more to it?

Jack: There's. It's not more to it. In fact, it's exactly the same thing. But putting the exact same thing into perspective, okay. Changes everything. So we have a merchant in the 1700s that gets some alleged unicorn horn from a Russian named John. And then he takes it, and he shows a bunch of scholars. They study it. They go on some journeys to find other scholars. A literal war breaks out.

Cristina: Unicorn horn.

Jack: They all get hooked on alicorn. They form schools in. In covert secrecy to study it, because they. They're assuming that once people hear about, this crap's gonna hit the fan. And then when people hear about it, it literally hits a fan. A war breaks out between Russia and Turkey trying to get to the alicorn. And, like, okay, they disappear. The alicorn disappears. Literally. One of the guys dies, gets murdered. Yeah, everybody gets killed except the guy. He gets away, eventually dies too. And then eventually, some people in the future, about 60, 70 years later, they also pop up and say, hey, we found some unicorn horn. And they pointed at the same location that Jon said he got it from. They pointed at the same location, Mount Athos.

Cristina: And someone gave it to them.

Jack: They went there. They went there and got it.

Cristina: But they didn't say how they got it.

Jack: Nope.

Cristina: They could have just found it on the ground like a unicorn shed. This horn.

Jack: Well, you gotta understand that these records, which I mentioned last time, are highly unstable. Specific. They're very. It was the inception of record keeping, so they weren't being meticulous they were keeping records of everything, but not in detail.

Cristina: Well, would that be a solution of how they got the horns? If the unicorns are shedding their horns? Because it seems, like, really hard to actually do anything.

Jack: Unicorn, you can't spot one, you're not faster than one. They can disappear easily. They'll vanish right in front of your eyes.

Cristina: They fly? Sort of.

Jack: They can. Yeah.

Cristina: Or something. What is it again?

Jack: They can walk on thin air. They can just run. Yeah, they just run on air.

Cristina: Yeah. So it's really weird that these people would just randomly get them. Unless they all have a version, I guess, was one way to get these unicorns.

Jack: Well, what you're saying, actually, it checks out. It makes a lot of sense. I didn't think about that before, but, like, how are they acquiring it? How does everybody that goes up there easily find us? If. Unless. When they disappear, this is where they go to if there's like a reset and up here, they can't disappear because when they disappear, they disappear to here. That would be the only other answer.

Cristina: What. What appears and disappears?

Jack: The unicorns. When you're watching a unicorn, that they can just vanish in front of you, where are they vanishing to? Probably the mountain. Okay, so unless they're shedding on the mountain, like you say, which is a great solution to the problem, they're just walking around. Find it. But if that's not the case, then when they disappear, anywhere else, where they appear to would be that mountain, which is why people can get them there. Because they're not disappearing from the mountain. They just pop up right where they are again, because the mountain is where they're going to when they disappear. So unless one, then the other, they're either shedding, which makes perfect sense, and I think about. Or they're appearing up there. That's all I was thinking about. Like, when they do vanish, they must be popping up over there, and they can't disappear from over there because something sets them to that location. That's what I was thinking. But shedding makes more sense, animalistically speaking, makes a lot of sense. But also, we're talking about a creature that's literally magic and has only been seen in one place. So maybe it is resetting up there.

Cristina: But shedding makes a lot of sense.

Jack: If we're talking about a normal creature.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And yes, could totally apply. But again, we're talking about something that literally disappears in front of people's faces. It's not as weird as it has a spawn spot. Okay, now I need you to focus entirely and tell me why it's weird that it has a spawn spot if it can disappear into thin air. Why is that the weird part?

Cristina: Because. Why?

Jack: Why is it disappearing into thin air?

Cristina: But then that makes it feel.

Jack: Picking and choosing which thing is weird?

Cristina: That's just so weird. That's.

Jack: It walks on air.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Why is any one part weirder to you than any other?

Cristina: I don't know. That's just weirder. That is definitely weirder. I don't know.

Jack: It's weirder that they're spawning in the only place they've ever been seen. That's what you're telling me?

Cristina: Yes. Because they haven't just been seen.

Jack: There literally have only been seen there. There's no mention of unicorns outside of that.

Cristina: Then why would they be spawning in the spot that they're. I don't know. That doesn't make sense either.

Jack: What, that they're spawning the only place they've ever been seen?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: That's weird to you, that the only place they've ever been seen is where they're just popping up?

Cristina: Because then they're not running away from anyone. They're just, I'm here, and then I'm gone, but then I'm here again. Like, that's a really bad way to run away. If they're trying to get away from.

Jack: Okay, I see what you mean. I see what you mean. My idea would be that people have likely seen them in other places, but not sustained seeing them. So you'll be in the woods randomly and. Is that a unicorn? Oh, wait, there's nothing there because it disappeared in front of you and ended.

Cristina: Up on the mountain.

Jack: And ended up on the mountain.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Kind of like Bigfoot. Maybe it's just portaling itself right there. Okay, magic. It's not as weird, considering it can disappear. It can heal anything, it causes immortality. It can fly into nothing.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: A spawn point is what you find weird. That's the part that you're like, no, this sounds not real.

Cristina: Well, if you're there, I'm saying, like, that doesn't make sense.

Jack: Well, nobody there has seen. They've seen them disappear. Everybody who's been there has just simply come down with things from them. So they're clearly not running away up there. Or if they are, then they're shutting one or the other point being that up there, people are clearly at least close enough in proximity to come down with the unicorn horn.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Nowhere else is that the case. But people aren't saying they disappeared up there. They're just saying Oh, I got a unicorn horn. So they're just appearing from somewhere else. Where are they disappearing to? And if so, why aren't they disappearing from the mountain? Because it seems to be that if they're not disappearing from the mountain, but they disappear from anywhere else, it's a one way trip to the mountain from wherever they disappear to. Be the only conclusion. Unless they can always disappear, in which case you'd never come across a unicorn horn because they're always vanishing away from you. And they could show up anywhere on Earth because they can go anywhere. Unless there is a location that they would spawn to.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Because how else would you even acquire the horn?

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: If they're not teleporting to the mountain.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Then why would they chill up there? They could go anywhere. They'll be teleporting everywhere. Because they could just do that inherently. They'll poof right in front of you.

Cristina: And going, why is it so easy to get a unicorn horn?

Jack: Because maybe on the mountain they are just horses.

Cristina: They're just horses on the mountain.

Jack: Well, joke's on you, because that's literally what's said. So there's something about the mountain that strips anything on the mountain of all their abilities. That is one of the things I found about that mountain, Mount Athos.

Cristina: Then how are they flying on Pegasus up there?

Jack: Because a Pegasus isn't flying with powers. It has wings. It's a pegasus.

Cristina: So weird. Okay.

Jack: It's using its physical construct to get there.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Why is it that the Atlanteans that possess not only advanced technologies, but magic land and then walk down the mountain. Why don't they just float on down. There's something weird about the mountain.

Cristina: Okay, okay. So what's the story? They. It doesn't have it anything on. It doesn't have powers.

Jack: So basically, it seems that anything on the mountain is absolutely normal, but anything from the mountain outside the mountain is not. That seems to be the most consistent pattern about this mountain. Now it's to the point that they have established schools on that mountain to study the mountain, and they are still there today studying the mountain. There are schools and churches of many different disciplines on that mountain, studying that mountain today. Because allegedly the mountain itself is magic. But everything that in theory would have magic on the mountain isn't. A priest who can heal goes up there and can no longer heal. But why?

Cristina: There's always like that. What?

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Wow. That is very strange. Okay.

Jack: Yeah. There are 20 different monasteries and schools up there. There are also. What is this called? It's a group of people that maintain it's a self sustained mountain. People aren't allowed on the mountain, by the way, if you're on the mountain, you're from the mountain. And if you're off the mountain, you're off of the mountain. And it's a chore to get up there. You need a permit. Only a hundred people are allowed up there daily. They are all men.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Women are not allowed on the mountain.

Cristina: Even if they're virgins.

Jack: Women are not allowed on the mountain. And only 10 non orthodox individuals a day. All the others must be Orthodox.

Cristina: Those orthodox means Orthodox Christians. Oh, they have to be Orthodox.

Jack: Yes. Only 10 people who aren't a day are allowed up there. Everybody else must be. And you need a permit. And you need to schedule this about six months ahead of time. And they will screen you to make sure who you are. They want to know your background, they want to know where you come from. They want to know who you've encountered before you step foot on this mountain.

Cristina: That's ridiculous. That's so crazy. It's very suspicious. But okay.

Jack: That the Christians are gatekeeping a mountain. That's magic.

Cristina: What?

Jack: And that's there today? That's all happening at this moment.

Cristina: Mmm. What do they know?

Jack: Oh, and any individual that doesn't live there can only be there a total of three days.

Cristina: A total of three days?

Jack: Yeah. So if you go and visit, you can only be there three days and then you gotta get the f*** out.

Cristina: If you have the permit, how long can you be there? Or that's.

Jack: The permit is only for three days.

Cristina: For three days, okay.

Jack: @ most. And you can only stay in three different locations. You cannot repeat any one location. Weird.

Cristina: It is weird that it's all too specific.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: What? A permit. Permit for what though?

Jack: Like to visit a mountain and you have to stay where they tell you to. You don't get to choose where you want, they're gonna choose for you. And you can't repeat places.

Cristina: Really weird repeat places. So they can move you. Like if something weird's happening in one place, maybe they'll get you to the next.

Jack: You wouldn't even know.

Cristina: Yeah. Is there any weird stories about people who visited though?

Jack: Two.

Cristina: Two? Just two. Wow. Okay.

Jack: Well, from the people currently living on the mountain now, two. But I've told you like 12 different stories about people who visited the mountain already.

Cristina: Yes, but like that's it. That still feels like not much stories.

Jack: Yeah, according to the people who live on the mountain. Because again, they can. The people who live on a mountain can leave the mountain.

Cristina: Okay?

Jack: These people who don't live in a mountain, they are not allowed onto the mountain. But according to them, in the last thousand years, only 20 people have gone to the highest point of the mountain.

Cristina: Okay?

Jack: There is a separate area at the highest point that even they are not allowed to go to. Oh. So let's. Let's begin. Let's begin. We did a recap. You know, we know about the Atlanteans and them landing on the top of the mountain to visit the Greeks and trade with them. We know the unicorns have been spotted on the mountain. We know that there are two Greek record keepers in the early 1800s, both that contained diff that had different unicorn horns that they got at the mountain according to themselves and that they wrote into the document they pointed at the same place. We also know that there was a Russian named John claiming to have obtained the unicorn horn that he then gave our merchant that he got from the same location. So we have a couple of instances about there. We also know that there are two very, very important books, bestiaries that just talk about the creatures of the time, Both of which mention unicorns. And they both mentioned the unicorns were spotted. None of them were written by any of the four people we've just mentioned. These are just different books that they obtained that mention the same thing. So if we go based on this, we got John, we got Antonio was his name or something like that. Draco or something like that. And then our Two historians plus two books, I.e. six mentions of the same location from different sources. Yes, about unicorns atop the mountain. A magic horse, if you will. So what do we know about this mountain? Why is this mountain so important? Why do people care about this mountain.

Cristina: Besides the weird stuff happening there?

Jack: Well, we have to go to the original stories as to the original story is told about this mountain. Okay, first mentions of this mountain in any form of writing. So we have to go to the first writings. We have two groups of people who almost at the same time started to record. We're talking about the Jews and we're talking about the Greeks. But the Jews have nothing to do with this mountain. Their records don't mention this at all. They're close and far enough that they're not bothered. The people who do mention it are the Greek, and it shows up in Greek mythology quite heavily, the mountain. So what's weird about the this instance is when the Greeks started writing down their mythology for the first time. We know there was some inconsistencies because it was narratives that were not written for many, many, many millennia, just told all word of mouth. So there's, you know, some kind of miss things here and there. But for whatever reason, during the writing process, as they refined and decided, this is the story we're going with. So that's how we ended up with Zeus and knowing Hera and knowing Hercules and the lineage. This is all because these are the versions of the stories we decided to write. You know, Makes perfect sense.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Even if there's a million versions of them, we chose one, and we. We're gonna coast on that until we get to this mountain. And in the text, they mentioned the lack of clarity. They don't know which story is true. Weird, considering you made them up and then wrote them down. Why didn't you pick one for this? Why was your response to Mount Athos? I don't know which story is true. So there are two different stories.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: One is the attack of Athos. Athos was in a battle with Poseidon. Athos is a giant, by the way. Oh, Athos is a giant. One of the many. One of the Titans, you could say. Although the Titans and the giants are very different.

Cristina: So is the Titan or a giant?

Jack: It's a giant. But okay. Anyways, so we have Athos, and he's in a battle with Poseidon. Poseidon, in the middle of the battle, goes down to the water. They're fighting on Mount Olympus. And he goes into the water to have the field advantage, because Poseidon and water, of course, Athos proceeds to, instead of following him instantaneously, to rip off a side of Olympus and toss it at Poseidon.

Cristina: That becomes mountain.

Jack: Later it does because it misses Poseidon, but he follows after the rock. He threw. He threw the mountain. And then he goes after to then continue fighting Poseidon. Poseidon dodges it. It hits the water. Poseidon then grabs the mountain and he throws it back at Athos, successfully hitting Athos, stopping the mountain. And the mountain lands in the water. That's the placement it landed in. And that becomes Mount Athos.

Cristina: So the mountain is on Athos?

Jack: No, it hit Athos.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: So that is one story. The other story is that that mountain was always there. It was just a mountain. And the fight between Athos and Poseidon took place on that mountain. And Poseidon won the battle, and he buried Athos beneath the mountain. That story is way more fascinating than the previous one, because apparently the body of giants would be consumed by the soil. Making it magic.

Cristina: Is that. That's what you think, like, that makes sense.

Jack: Makes a lot of sense. Additionally, magic does not work on giants. Interesting.

Cristina: Magic doesn't work on giants.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: And that's why the magical mountain, it doesn't have anything magical on it.

Jack: But the mountain itself is magic.

Cristina: Yeah. What?

Jack: The plot thickens. So those are what Greek mythology has to say about this mountain. Now let's talk about the facts of this mountain. The things we know factually are happening on this mountain in the real world. World. Mount Athos has over 2,000 monks living there in a total of 20 monasteries.

Cristina: 2,000, you said?

Jack: Yeah, 2,000 monks, 20 monasteries. Over 4,000 other men who work in the monasteries, not 4,400 men who work in the monasteries. And the mountain is self sustained. The food is grown on the mountain. They use everything. They got generators, which is how they power things. There's no power lines coming from outside.

Cristina: They don't have any real weird rules themselves about like, we can only stay here one day and then we gotta move to the next one or whatever. Like the guests.

Jack: Not that I know of. Women don't go on the mountain. People from outside the mountain must have a permit. Those are weird roles. They are very private. They don't talk much about what happens on the mountain.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Again, entry to the area is restricted and controlled severely. Only males are allowed to be there. Only males are allowed to live there. Only males are allowed to visit. It gets stranger. Oh.

Cristina: How?

Jack: Every animal on the mountain is male.

Cristina: That's very strange.

Jack: It's strange sort of at the beginning when you're like, oh, well, you know, all the birds they have in cages and all the cows they raise are just bulls. And like everything you. Everything they eat, everything they raise, whatever. But creatures visit the mountain.

Cristina: Yeah. There should be wild creatures.

Jack: Yes, there are. There's never been a female one ever recorded. That's weird.

Cristina: That's weird.

Jack: Them bringing, capturing and raising. Less weird. It's strange, but it's not like a phenomenon. It's just a bunch of weird people doing weird things.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: When you have birds freely flying and they're all male. And they're all male, you got something weird happening.

Cristina: Mm, that sounds very weird.

Jack: Very strange. Now, of the 20 monasteries, this is where it's gonna get really interesting. Like I said, there are many Orthodox, but there are some that absolutely aren't.

Cristina: There is.

Jack: Of the 20, one that is Serbian, one that is Bulgarian, and one that is Russian.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Important detail to remember.

Cristina: Okay. Okay.

Jack: There are some people that live there that are called the sktei and they Live in villages on the mountain and they are the ones who farm. They are also the handiworkers of the area. They are the production workers.

Cristina: Are they all male also?

Jack: Everybody on the mountain, without exception, is male. There is no exception to this rule. No woman will ever be on this mountain. All male, no matter what you think, no matter what the question might be. They're male? Yes.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Always and forever.

Cristina: Doesn't make sense, but okay.

Jack: They are f****** each other if they have to. All guys? Why don't know. All guys? Yeah, Just all guys. Any question about gender? Men. Yes.

Cristina: Are we having children?

Jack: No, they're all men. They couldn't.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The logic of men still applies. They are just as men. As men could be. They cannot give birth. No, they're men. Now, these monasteries are not just research facilities and religious constructs for people of faith. They also possess holy relics and they have icons as well. And they have mosaics of great value. They the usual things that Christians do in taking a bunch of important historical things and instead of showing the world, hiding them from everybody. Yeah, you know the sketchy thing that Catholics and Christians just love to do about hiding things? So that's happening there in abundance now. Although many of these things have been lost, though people have gone there and stolen crap. They have set fire to things. There was a time in history when they were being raided and pillaged on this mountain and a bunch of crap was stolen. But they apparently had so much crap that less than 1% of it was actually taken. But so much was taken that everybody that left left rich. So you have all the crap you're telling me?

Cristina: Yes. How?

Jack: How exactly how and why?

Cristina: Why?

Jack: What's the need to have this all up here? Very interesting. People who come to the mountain as visitors are not allowed to see any of the relics that aren't on display in their libraries. They have museums and they have vaults that contain the majority of them. The only ones you can go see are the ones in the libraries. So they're hiding religious artifacts and not explaining what they are or why they have them, which is weird. If you want people to have faith and to trust and to understand religion. The fact that you're hiding parts of.

Cristina: Your religion, the magical parts, probably.

Jack: Magical parts, probably. Now, important detail. Some of these things are actual religious texts, parts of the Bible, the original books from the Bible. Apparently there are more than just the books that we took away from the Jews, but other books that have just never even been mentioned are here.

Cristina: Why? Why are they hiding everything? Ah, okay.

Jack: I don't know, because they're doing the same thing in Italy.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Just a lot of hidden things.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: At this point, I'm starting to think we just need to go gather as people, like people of Earth. Think about this. We need to gather and just. Let's just go murder everybody in both of these locations and take all the stuff. They're not gonna let us take it easily. So we kill them all and take it and then find out why they felt the need to lie to all of you and hide what you guys. If you.

Cristina: It's probably impossible to steal whatever it is they have, though.

Jack: Why?

Cristina: Because other people try to do it and they stole things. But it was the obvious things, not the hidden things. The hidden things are probably super well.

Jack: Hidden because there are people fighting back. You do not have an opportunity to thoroughly Look. Now, if 100,000 people show up to this mountain and murder the 2,000 people there, now you just have nothing but time. Comb through this mountain and find everything that these people have hidden. God knows why. Let's go to Italy. Let's incarcerate every single one of these people, and we're gonna go into every one of these buildings, into every chamber. We're gonna break everything we can to get through every possible wall and see every room and capture every single piece of everything and publicize all of it. That needs to happen at some point. That needs to happen at some point.

Cristina: They're using magic to hide these things. It might not be possible.

Jack: According to the logic of this mountain, that would not be possible.

Cristina: Oh, yes. Because magic isn't working.

Jack: There must just be chambers, which means we can't just off every one of them and get to them easy.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Now, one. One artifact, one book, a very important book is on this mountain. But you were asking about weird rules. One of the weird rules, like I said before, is that they themselves are not allowed to go to the top of the mountain, to the highest point. They are not allowed at the highest point of the mountain. In the last thousand years, only 20 individuals have ever gone to the highest point of the mountain. Let's talk about the highest point of the mountain. It is visibly the only green part of the mountain. There is grass and trees at the top. Not snow.

Cristina: Not snow. That is weird. That is weird. Okay.

Jack: Very strange. The top of the mountain contains a single relic, a single book.

Cristina: What's in that book?

Jack: A bestiary.

Cristina: Weird. What?

Jack: Weird.

Cristina: Why is that? What's there?

Jack: That isn't the craziest part. The Russian monastery has been in a continuous battle to reclaim the bestiary that was written by the Russians. And the Orthodox Christians confiscated it, claimed it as part of their history, placed it on top of the mountain. And the Russians themselves respect the top of the mountain, so they themselves do not go.

Cristina: Wait, but like, is there. They don't say like, about the people that did go on top of the mountain.

Jack: We know nothing about them.

Cristina: Okay. Did they sneak there? Did they dis.

Jack: We don't know anything about him.

Cristina: It's very strange.

Jack: Don't know anything about him. We just know that there is Russian bestiary being claimed by the Orthodox Christians and hidden atop the mountain, where every monastery believes it is too sacred to visit. This is your artifact. Go up there and get it.

Cristina: But you can't.

Jack: But you can't because it's too sacred to visit. What does that mean? Does that mean what?

Cristina: Interesting.

Jack: Gets weird, bro. Like, what is happening? Also, how do we go up and get to grass and trees instead of snow? Mount Athos is the second tallest place in all of Greece. And how do you have grass and trees, not snow?

Cristina: It's for the unicorns to eat.

Jack: Olympus is only slightly bigger and it is covered in snow on top.

Jack: So. And it's in the same country, which means the same altitude should, in theory, lead to the same conditions.

Cristina: I wanna know what's in that bestiary that's so weird. Why is that one? The one that's hidden?

Jack: Why is that? What's hidden? You got all these other artifacts, but you put one up there, the bestiary.

Cristina: They got more than just unicorns in that beastiary.

Jack: It has to be.

Jack: That's strange, right?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Okay, let's go to the other question you had. There are two women to have ever stepped foot on this mountain. In the late 1800s, a woman disguised herself as a man, went onto the mountain out of, who knows? Curiosity. I don't know. She. There's something. There was a. There was some reason important enough for her to disguise herself and go there. We don't know what, but they removed her. She was incarcerated at the foot of the mountain. They built a prison just for her. And she was there her whole life until she died. Just for faking being a man and going out to the mountain later. It was legislated. They legislated so that women are not allowed on the mountain. It is in the law.

Cristina: In the law.

Jack: It's in the law that women are not allowed in the mountain.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: That is in Greek law.

Cristina: Well, before she did that, it wasn't.

Jack: Also, this mountain counts as A sovereign state. So it is in Greece, but not.

Cristina: It's not part of Greece.

Jack: They can make their own rules.

Cristina: And the rule is no women.

Jack: No women.

Cristina: I wonder why.

Jack: That's the second woman ever to step foot on that mountain.

Cristina: Who was the first?

Jack: And what happened to her about 5,000 years ago?

Cristina: What?

Jack: Roughly. No, actually, about. No, no, that's wrong. It was about 2,000 years ago. Yeah. About 2,000 years ago, there was a woman on a boat headed to Cyprus, which is in Greece or part of Greece, or in some instances, part of Greece. In other instances, it's its own place, depending who you ask. She was headed there and the wind current pushed her away. And she landed on Athos without knowing what it was. But upon landing on Athos, this land was beautiful. This land was great. This woman proceeded to go to the highest point of the mountain. At the highest point of the mountain. She then prayed to her son to give her permission to claim the land.

Cristina: Pray to her son. What does this mean?

Jack: Two thousand years ago, about a year after the death of Jesus, Mary was on a boat headed towards Cyprus. The winds redirected her. She landed on Mount Athos, went to the top of the mountain, prayed to Christ that she can keep this land, and then we never hear of her again. This is in the Bible, in the Orthodox Christian book. This text is in there.

Cristina: Okay. She owns it, and yet they don't let women on it. That's very suspicious and odd.

Jack: Also, there is a green patch at the very top of this mountain.

Cristina: Yes. You think she lives there? You think she's still alive?

Jack: I don't know, man. It's just like the weirdest series.

Cristina: That is the weirdest.

Jack: According to the Orthodox Christians, these are the only two women to have ever stepped foot on this mountain.

Cristina: Yes. And we don't know anything about either of these women. It's just. That's it.

Jack: That's it. They refuse to give us more details relative to these things.

Cristina: She prayed for that mountain and then. I don't understand what. So weird. That's just so odd. I don't know what to do with that information.

Jack: Yep.

Cristina: How did she end up there and what happened after she prayed? That's her story.

Jack: I was curious about the same thing. Like, do we know? Did she make a house? Does she, like, live off the land? Like, what happened? Nothing.

Cristina: Nothing. And then they don't want women there. I wonder why. I wonder how that's connected.

Jack: She was there before all the guys were.

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: She was the first person to step foot on that mountain.

Cristina: What does that mean? I don't know. That's very strange.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: But no magic works on that mountain, right?

Jack: No magic works on that mountain.

Jack: Now, let us remember a very important detail about this mountain. The Atlanteans arrive on this mountain, how?

Cristina: The Pegasus. Right.

Jack: And a Pegasus is what?

Cristina: A flying horse.

Jack: So with a flying horse, you would obviously land where, to the top? Yes, because then you're going to come down, and if you land at the top, you're landing at the summit. The summit where the grass, the trees.

Cristina: Perfect for the horses.

Jack: Perfect for the horses. Where you've already seen other horses. Right. Where Mary also happened to go up to.

Cristina: Mm. What?

Jack: There's something about the. The mountain stops being interesting immediately. Because we were wrong about the mountain.

Cristina: It's the mountain top that's the most important thing.

Jack: It's the summit. Something about the summit of the mountain. Because we don't see, like, we can. I can get a pass and go onto that mountain right now. I am not allowed at the top of the mountain right now, but I can go to the mountain. I can get on the waiting list in six months. I could just go onto that mountain, check it out. Cool. They will arrest me if I try to go to the top.

Cristina: How did they stop each other from getting to the top?

Jack: Because they all adamantly believe that it is too sacred for them to go up to.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: They do not even surveil each other. They put the bestiary up there. That belongs to the Russians, and they themselves don't go and retrieve it. They're on the mountain, too. They could have just gone up and got in it. There's no security. There's no buildings. There's no nothing. You could just go up there. If you live on the mountain, maybe.

Cristina: That summit is more than just a regular summit, then, like. But you said there's no magic. But then how could they put a book there? It's very strange.

Jack: So I have theories on what the point of it is. Right. Assuming that the whole mountain functions equally, and the whole mountain, like the second story, is true. This. This is the burial site Athos. And if giants, when they die, the same effects that their bodies already have where magic doesn't work on them, and so his body then fed the mountain. The mountain magic no longer works on this mountain, and the whole mountain works equally. No magic works atop at the summit either. This would mean a couple of things. Right? If you put a magical artifact on this mountain, you've stripped it of its powers.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Now, this part on Top of the mountain is very different than everywhere else. Maybe that part on top of the mountain is the literal burial site. It is the only part with dirt and grass. It is the only part that isn't a bunch of rock.

Cristina: The burial site to the giant.

Jack: Yes. So giant would be buried at the very, very top, making it the strongest magic stream. So if you had something very dangerous and strong, magically speaking, you'd put it at the strongest dampening point, which could be the summit.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Alternatively, if the story says he's buried underneath. This is me. That was just me adding the sauce and saying maybe he would. Maybe that part is wrong. It is a burial site, but he was buried on top. The story says he's buried underneath the mountain. So the highest point would be the furthest from his body, thus the weakest from his effect, which means, potentially, we see the trees, we see the grass. It is the only green point. It might be the. It's just far enough from his body that it's the only part of the mountain where magic still happens. The only part of the mountain where magic can still work. If somebody who is connected to a being of pure magic were to go up there, they'd still have access to this being of pure magic, because that person could easily communicate or reach them, because magic still works. If the Holy Spirit or Jesus Christ or this vampire guy is really who she thinks he is and who everybody else thinks he is, and he can communicate and transcend, then this mountain would, in any case, dampen all those abilities. Except at this one point on top, this lady goes and prays and just, poof, vanishes. But it's because her son can take her from there.

Cristina: Okay. Okay.

Jack: But it's also where Atlanteans come down from. They have access to not just advanced technologies, but potentially magic. Are they even really flying there? Because that's what they say. That's what the stories say, that they have these horses, they land on top of the mountain, but nobody's allowed to the top of the mountain to see this event happen. They just know that the Atlanteans come down from there.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And they put two and two together and say, oh, they flew there and then came down from there. But again, we know a lady went up and disappeared and that people come down and go back up and then they're not up there.

Cristina: So what do you think?

Jack: Sounds like some sort of a portal. Oh, sounds like the top of the mountain crap just disappears and reappears. Also, people are allowed on the mountain, but they're not allowed at the summit. But unicorns have been seen on the mountain. Where the h*** would the unicorns be? Where they could survive? Where there's nature at the top of the mountain.

Cristina: Where you think they're teleporting too, when they get. When they running away. Okay. Oh, oh, okay, that makes sense.

Jack: The top of the mountain is some Garden of Eden equivalent. Let's think about the Garden of Eden. The Garden of Eden exists in some sort of alternate bubble dimension that only certain beings can access successfully, but is hidden in plain sight. The Garden of Eden is also interchangeable with where the Atlanteans live. We've many times come across the text in different, different mythologies that reference these two things interchangeably.

Cristina: Connection to Atlantis. Okay, but the church people can't like do anything with that anyway. Interesting. Also, they probably have magical tools up there that they're studying, like in non magical ways, because it takes away the magic from those tools. Yeah, but they're not going up there.

Jack: Yeah, they're not allowed.

Cristina: Exactly. But they have a lot of crap.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: And a lot of those crap could be magical.

Jack: But not on the mountain.

Cristina: But not on the mountain. Exactly. So that's a perfect studying location.

Jack: The top of the mountain.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: But only 20 people in the last thousand years have gone up there who can study it. And how are they gonna bring you back the data?

Jack: If anything, when these people go up there to do anything, they're not staying up there. They're going wherever that up there is taking them. The people who go to the top of the mountain. These 20 people over the course of thousand years who live in these monasteries and have gone up there, were entering some other place. They were going somewhere else. But only these people were specifically chosen and allowed to cross whatever threshold is at the summit that's allowing them to go to whatever place. The same place where Mary went. The same place that the Atlanteans are coming from. The same place that unicorns seem to be popping out of. All connected to this one place on top that has such a vast similarity to the Garden of Eden, which is also consistently referenced alongside the opposing grounded, more real texts of the Atlanteans.

Cristina: The Atlanteans? Yes. They're the children of Adam and Eve. Okay, yes, I'm remembering that weirdness.

Jack: Oh, and by chance, Mary happens to go up there.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Where she would come across the children of Adam and Eve.

Cristina: Yes. But that was accidentally total accident.

Jack: But also, if you are a Christian, everything happens for a reason.

Cristina: Okay. God.

Jack: The wind pushed her because it Was part of the plan. She went to the top because Christ wanted to see his mom again. Some reason she was there. For some reason, she went up there. For some reason. That's where unicorns are. For some reason. That's why the Atlanteans come from that same spot. For some reason, out of the 2,000 people that live on that mountain, nobody goes up there.

Cristina: What? Yes. I don't know what any of this means, though, because nothing can be proven. Because no one could go there. So it doesn't matter.

Jack: Nobody could go there. Nope. What now about this mountain? Only men are allowed. We know this. Visitors rarely, except in very specific circumstance where there have been emperors throughout history who have quit being emperors to go to this mountain on record. They just leave their kingdom. They abandon their kingdom and they go to be monks on this mountain.

Cristina: Where are they from?

Jack: All over the world. They just abandon their kingdom, their power, their money, their wealth, their ease of life, and they go be monks on this mountain.

Cristina: How do they even hear about it.

Jack: When asked why they stay there? The medicine grown from the fauna and the flora brings them health, intellect and wisdom. This is in documents. They've said these words. Almost all of them have. Now, let me point out what I have just said. Very importantly that you listen to this again, because unicorns, the flora and the fauna. See, it wasn't just the flora. It wasn't just. I picked up a plant.

Cristina: No. Magical animals.

Jack: Magical animals. Medicine from some creature is making you more intelligent, healthier and wiser.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: More so than any power you have acquired, than any building you have, than any money you have, than all the women that would throw themselves at you. Then you run entire countries and you're like, no, you guys can have it. I'm gonna go over there.

Cristina: How common are the unicorns up there? What? Or anything else that's up there. Like maybe all animals.

Jack: Not one of these emperors has ever gone to the summit.

Cristina: But you have to get to the summit to get some unicorn. Alcor. Whatever.

Jack: Alicorn.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Not one of them has ever been up there. Let me go on to point out the next weirdest part of this fact. Nobody. Not one. Not one of the texts from any of these monasteries on this mountain so much as hint to the existence of a unicorn. Every bit has been from people who left it, Nothing from the people who stayed.

Cristina: They have Fight Club rules.

Jack: Not even amongst each other. Do they talk about it.

Cristina: No.

Jack: Fight Club couldn't even keep that going.

Cristina: Oh, no. Huh?

Jack: But again, they literally don't even go to the Top. So they must really. I mean, it's monk's discipline is their thing.

Cristina: Yeah. Like they're not even going up there to get that book.

Jack: Nope. And it's. They swear it's theirs.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And they argue with it and they try to get the individual who is allowed up there to go get it. Go get it belongs to us.

Cristina: But they're not gonna do that.

Jack: You go get it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: No. It's either too dangerous or actually sacred in some manner, shape or form that we don't understand.

Cristina: If it is sacred in some weird way, like maybe it was an accident that that book even showed up there. Like, they probably didn't purposely put it there. But now that it's there, they can't get it back.

Jack: Whoever goes up there can bring it back if they wanted to.

Cristina: But no one does go up there.

Jack: In the Last thousand years, 20 individuals have gone up there. And this book has been updated all the time.

Jack: They have all been Christian. Every single one who's gone up there is part of the Orthodox Christians. It was not the Russians. It was not the Bulgarians. It was not the Serbians. It was a hundred percent each time one of the Orthodox Christians who was allowed to the top. It was only one at a time. And throughout the course of a thousand years, there's only been 20 people who've been allowed up there. I don't know what merits or like, what why. I do not know why them?

Cristina: Are they bringing down some unicorn horns? That's a good question too. I don't know. Because there. There's something magical that's keeping them healthy and everything.

Jack: One important. I forgot to mention this very important detail that I just looked at this text and saw. Very, very important. I don't know why I forgot this part. This is probably one of the most important details about this. After Virgin Mary landed on the mountain island, because it's kind of an island and kind of a mountain. And she went to the summit. She got to the summit on a horse.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Very, very important because there are no natural horses on this mountain. According to the Orthodox Christians that run the mountain, there's no horses. There's no horses. There's cows. Well, bulls. But there's no horse. There wouldn't. It's a mountain. How the h*** would a horse survive? How do you go up the mountain on a horse? That's mainly rock. It's a rocky a** mountain.

Cristina: But everyone says there's unicorns up there.

Jack: Only people who've left and come down with it. Nobody on the mountain. Says anything about this. Okay, Every record that exists about unicorns on this mountain exists outside the mountain. There are records kept on the mountain and there is not one mention.

Cristina: How did you get this horse?

Jack: Where did the horse come from? You landed here by accident on a boat. You didn't have the horse with you. And it's a mountain. Dude, you don't even understand. Give me a second so I can show you a visual. Okay, so this is what that mountain looks like. This is a rocky f****** mountain.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: You're either at the base of the mountain, and that's the only place you see trees and stuff. That's where the farmers are. That's where they're growing the things, the crops and whatever. And then you see how the mountain goes up and just the trees just cease. The nature just ceases. And then you get to the very, very tip and we're back to trees and back to nature. Now look at the steepness of this mountain. She rode a horse to the top.

Cristina: It doesn't make sense.

Jack: No, no, it doesn't. She rode a horse up a vertical.

Cristina: Unless vertical.

Jack: She rode a horse that can travel vertically.

Cristina: Which one was that? Which horse does that? I can't remember.

Jack: The unicorn.

Cristina: The unicorn, okay. Yes, yes.

Jack: The unicorn travels vertically. It could just run up nothing. She could literally ride it in a straight shot without having to take a single turn to the very top of the mountain. So, yeah, she rode a horse. That's part of that story. She rode a horse to the top of the mountain. You were on a boat. You didn't have a horse.

Cristina: If she had a unicorn, where would she get that from? Or maybe she just found the horse.

Jack: That could ride up the side of the mountain.

Jack: They didn't say unicorn. They do not say unicorn. They specifically don't say unicorn. It's just a horse, according to them. But also, you saw this f****** mountain.

Cristina: It was definitely a unicorn.

Jack: How else are you gonna get to the top of the mountain? The mountain just stops and becomes vertical. How are you gonna get to the top of the mountain on a horse?

Cristina: Unicorn, man. It has to be a unicorn.

Jack: It fits the narrative According to the descriptions of a horse that could run vertically.

Cristina: That's crazy. She has the unicorn and then she disappears into Atlantis. That's so weird.

Jack: Okay, I mean, looking at these details, I did come across John the Russian one more time. I didn't find additional information of any sort. He still talked about the same place, Getting it from the same thing. Just very. But there was one thing that didn't Seem important at the time that I didn't mention, because it's okay, it's in the mountain was my idea. But he specifically said that it came from the summit of the mountain.

Cristina: Oh, it didn't just come from the mountain.

Jack: Not just the mountain. He specifically said he got it from the summit of Mount Athos. Now, I didn't think that mattered in seeing it. I was like, oh, yeah, he did say that. I went ahead and I extract, you know, compressing information to make it through the episode. I just. Hey, was at the mountain. It didn't seem relevant to specify which part of the mountain. He just got it from the mountain, bro.

Cristina: Unless you know where exactly.

Jack: Okay, yes, he got it specifically his own words from the very top of the mountain.

Cristina: Okay. So there's definitely unicorns on top of that mountain. Something on top of that mountain, and probably Pegasus too. It's pretty cool.

Jack: Important that I say, John, because also the two records, the public records in the Greek records are also claiming it was from the summit.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Now this creates an interesting problem because that means that in the last 300 years, at least three people who weren't supposed to be on the mountain went to the summit. Or somebody handed it to them. Somehow, some. Somehow they got something that was from the top.

Cristina: Even though no one's allowed up there.

Jack: Even though no one's allowed up there. Did they sneak up there? Did somebody bring it down from up there? The people who live on the mountain aren't allowed up there, but they do say that people do come down from up there. Now, nobody lives up there. There's nobody up there. So the people who go up there, they believe land up there and then come down or that is what they tell us.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: That they land up there on their Pegasus and then they come down. That could totally be the case.

Cristina: If that's not.

Jack: Then they're just popping up there and coming down.

Cristina: Oh, okay. But he's not popping up there.

Jack: We don't know. We just know that they got it from the summit.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: That's it. We know three individuals got alicorn from the summit. That's it. That's the extent of our knowledge in this area.

Cristina: Okay. We don't know how it just happened.

Jack: Yep. So that's what I got. That's what I found about this mountain.

Cristina: This magical, non magical mountain. That is crazy.

Jack: I mean, I don't know. I don't know. We know there's a bunch of artifacts. We don't know if they're still magic. We don't Know if the summit is magic or isn't magic or is the.

Cristina: Only place so much secrets. It's just a secretive. Secretive.

Jack: It's a secret mountain.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: With a bunch of fuzzy details that have been snuck out. And we have to connect it with the details that have been speculated and the crap that they decide to tell us.

Cristina: That's amazing.

Jack: Mount Athos is also, because of this Virgin Mary story, the most sacred location for orthodox Christians.

Cristina: Of course. What? Interesting. It's very interesting and weird. And what? Is she still there? What is she doing? Like what?

Jack: And he has hard, hard Garden of Eden vibes.

Cristina: Yes. It's definitely connected somehow. Yeah.

Jack: Somehow. Arguably. Maybe the same way that whatever's happening in the Bermuda Triangle connects to it. Maybe this is the same kind of idea that the Bermuda Triangle. We know what. There's nothing there. But there's also something there.

Cristina: There's something protecting something.

Jack: Yeah. And things can go and you'll see nothing. But you cross some threshold and pop up somewhere. That sounds literally like what they're describing about this mountain.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Which would say maybe the Garden of Eden has many entryways.

Cristina: That makes sense.

Jack: All being protected one way or another.

Cristina: That is interesting. I wonder if there's any crazy airplane stories around this mountain.

Jack: Interesting. Like. There are. Because there's has to be curiosity. Right. People just like, let me see.

Cristina: Wow. Okay.

Jack: So that's the story of Mount Athos. That's what I could find it. Very vague. It seems like the deeper I dig, the more vague and indirect the information becomes.

Cristina: But there's something there.

Jack: Something there for sure.

Cristina: Just. It was so little, but it's still something somehow. The secret is still. It's not well kept. No, it's really well kept, actually. Yes. But isn't it still there?

Jack: It's still there. We know there's something there.

Cristina: Something slipped.

Jack: We don't know what the h*** is there.

Cristina: Nope.

Jack: According to anybody who manages to go up and come down. Unicorns. That's all they got to say. Unicorns they don't talk about. Oh, the Atlanteans are up there. No, the people on the mountain told us that story. People outside the mountain speculate about it, but people on the mountain tells us those stories. That's what they want us to think. That's what they want us to know. Those are details they're feeding us.

Cristina: Why would they want feed us that. That's so strange. It's all strange.

Jack: They're also okay with us knowing about Virgin Mary being on there. That's totally cool with them.

Cristina: But not. Yes, that is very weird. What?

Jack: Okay, anywho, for the past God knows how long we've been talking about this. So if you guys are interested in any of this, you guys know where to find it. We're everywhere but you. If. Please look. Greeks and non Greeks, historians, anybody who's ever visited this mountain and somehow comes across this show, like, reach out. Talk to us. Tell us if you know, detail. If you've never visited and you know something we don't, you know, reach out. You can find us on all the socials, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, usConvopod.

Cristina: Remember to subscribe, right.

Jack: And review the show and tell anybody and everybody. Maybe somebody knows something we don't and they could completely.

Cristina: We need to know. This has been the Rambling podcast and take nothing personal. Thanks for listening. Bye. Like, smiling at you all tied up or something.

Jack: Not just smiling, but, like, with mad, hopeful eyes.

Cristina: Like, if I wish I were you.

Jack: Yeah, yeah. Like, through their face you can see that they're, like, trying to gauge your reaction about what you're listening to and you're horrified.

Cristina: So what are they thinking? Like, oh, this episode must be really good.

Jack: Well, I don't know, because they're over here just super souped looking, trying to see if your expression gives off anything so they can get excited. When you get excited about, oh, my God, is that exciting? That's all they're thinking. Like, wow, if they get souped about anything, I can only imagine what it is.

Cristina: Whoa. Our fans are too extreme.

Jack: Extremeness.

Cristina: Good morning. Good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by great dots.info art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McCallister with social media managed by Amber Black.

Rambling 213: Antonio Dracos Alicorn

Are there examples of unicorns being magical? What exactly does acquiring unicorn horns do? And is there a deeper paper trail of the existence of this mysterious merchant? The duo dive deeper into the lore of unicorns and are taken straight to public records where mentions of a familiar merchant steal the show.

+Episode Details

Topics DIscussed:

  • Topics Discussed:
  • The Holy Bible
  • Proof of Unicorn Magic
  • Mystical Horns
  • Alicorn Powder
  • Purifying Tears
  • Sacred Blood Blood
  • The Greek Merchant
  • Russian Turkish War
  • Mount Athos

Our Links:

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod

Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod

Instagram - https://instagram.com/justconvopod


+Transcript

Cristina: This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And this is the show where we ground humanity's most absurd, baffling ideas. Like how weird it is that you can say Ben before Aflac, the bird from the. The insurance company. Affleck is insurance, right? Yeah, Affleck.

Cristina: No, I'm. Wait, what's his real name?

Jack: Affleck.

Cristina: And the insurance is Aflac. Are you sure? Is it that similar?

Jack: I. I think. Yeah, I think it's pretty close. I think Ben Affleck and Affleck bird might be one in the same. Now that I think about it, that's the same.

Cristina: That Affleck. Affleck. You know, it has an E, but.

Jack: There'S a T there too, right? Ben Affleck. No, it's just Ben Affleck.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Oh, crap. It's closer than I thought. And then it's Insurance.

Cristina: Affleck, Aflac. Affleck. Oh, my God.

Jack: Oh, my God. Ben Affleck.

Cristina: He was a goose all along.

Jack: He was a goose all along.

Cristina: Is that a goose?

Jack: I think so. Yeah. It's either a goose or a duck or something.

Cristina: Looks like a big duck. But.

Jack: But look, the point is this shows about getting down to the bottom of things. And, like, what better way to start than by assuring the listeners that Ben Affleck was a goose all along.

Cristina: No, I think. Is it. I'm so confused.

Jack: It could be a duck. It could be a duck. It could be a duck. I don't, like, have a clear. A visual. Oh, no, that's a duck.

Cristina: That's a duck. Yeah, man.

Jack: There is an actual Ben Affleck. Good times. Internet is always the winner. Nothing wins against the Internet. But.

Cristina: But we were not the only person on to come up with Ben Affleck and Ben Affleck.

Jack: No, it just checks out. It makes sense as a thing. But that being said, we. Not last episode. Because last episode, the random spiral into no man's land that I embarked on happened. But before that episode, we were dealing with unicorns.

Cristina: The last episode wasn't unicorns also. No, no. It was about the world. Okay. Ancient stuff.

Jack: Yeah. I was led there by unicorns.

Cristina: Yes. Okay.

Jack: But unicorn was not the point of that episode. But two episodes back, unicorns was the point. And I was supposed to jump on the search that I had just done for this for today, for now. But again, I got sidetracked into a bunch of ancient civilizations But I actually did what I said, which was go look. You wanted to know about proof.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Of what things had unicorns done to.

Cristina: Count them as magical.

Jack: To count them as magical.

Cristina: So far, it's just we see them, therefore they're magical. Which makes no sense.

Jack: Well, I have a fascinating, fascinating series of things. And then I have an ancient civilization for you. Another one that happens to have kept enough records to have the mention of unicorn repeatedly.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And such well kept records, in fact, that we can trace people and their movements across the globe if we wanted to. So I did.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: You're gonna be blown away by where this goes, but let's start. Let's start.

Cristina: How many of these have to do with virgins?

Jack: I totally ignored the versions route.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Did it pop up a lot?

Jack: But it was almost the same thing. It was starting to get to the point where it was like, this wasn't really thought out. It really just felt like the fantasy of the time, you know?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like now, dude, you're like, yeah, I want to get pegged by my chick. But back then it was like, I want my chick to be on a unicorn or get f***** by a unicorn or I don't know, something like that. Okay, but not the point. The unicorn was actually mentioned directly in the Bible.

Cristina: Really? But some other mythical animals too, probably.

Jack: Yes, many other mythical animals. Which then establishes the fact that unicorns were what they were talking about because they weren't being confused by the other things they mentioned with horns. Okay, so they were really just that. But also, fair enough. The Bible has just a bunch of fantasy crap happening everywhere. Yes, but in the book Numbers 23:22 specifically says, God brought them out of Egypt. He hath, as it were, the strength of a unicorn. Interesting.

Cristina: So they're saying unicorns are strong. That's not magical, but magical.

Jack: No, that's just because horses are strong.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Any random horse with a defective skull that has a protrusion from it could still just be equally strong as a horse.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And in the Cheronomy 33:17 mentioned again, his glory is like the fist, the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns. Again, nothing special going on there. Just two instances. But I'll get to the magic.

Cristina: The point is that I found unicorns being mentioned. But in the second one, who are they talking about? Do you have any idea?

Jack: No, I was just looking for mentions of the situation specifically. Like, is there unicorns in this text?

Cristina: Okay, there is.

Jack: Yes. Something really weird that I found the absence of And I looked.

Cristina: What?

Jack: And I looked through all the holes I usually do when I can't find something. Like the dark spots. Not a single shred of unicorns mentioned alongside adrenochrome.

Jack: Which after Harry Potter. Makes perfect sense that somebody would think that up.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Nowhere.

Cristina: Nothing about their own blood, though, being used?

Jack: No, no, no. Their blood is used, but it's not adrenochrome.

Cristina: Does it work the same?

Jack: Doesn't seem like it. It has features, but not.

Cristina: It's not the same for sure.

Jack: For sure. So unicorn blood first. It's a thick golden substance.

Cristina: It's cold.

Jack: Interesting thick golden substance. And it's used primarily in potions of sorts. Spell casting potions, specifically, not drinking potions.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And it's quite often used to create a vessel, a body for disembodied soul. It's how you make a functional homunculus. If you can drag the soul out, you just form the body. They were making a body but not having the soul.

Cristina: Wait, yeah.

Jack: You can make a soul. To put.

Cristina: So then that story of that guy who was selling it to people, was he just saying, like, it could cure you or whatever? That's what people thought. Like, when they drunk it and then, like, they die. Can he jump in? No. I guess. When he dies, can he jump into their bodies?

Jack: No. There needs to be somebody conducting a spell.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: As far as we know, he's like.

Cristina: What if he made a spell? I don't know how.

Jack: Yes. Like, in theory, you could probably create some sort of trap spell. Yes. Yeah, but that would be quite elaborate. Yes, but it's possible. It couldn't be, like, written off as impossible. If we're talking magic as possible, then yes, a trap spell would by default be. And yeah, he could hack somebody's house. He could put lie about what he's giving somebody.

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: And then have a link of some sort that allows them to. Yeah, but sure, possible. Definitely. But it's mainly used from a magic standpoint when you're making the body.

Cristina: When you're making a body, you have.

Jack: To make an artificial body. It's not to move somebody.

Cristina: Oh, what? You're making a body?

Jack: You're making a body. That's why I used a homunculus as an example. You're making a body.

Cristina: But how do you make a body?

Jack: With the potion and the magic. It's a spell of sorts.

Cristina: It makes a body.

Jack: You use the potion. Yes. And the other parts of the spell to manifest a body. A body for a soul.

Cristina: Okay, that's weird. What?

Jack: There's probably a spell we can look up and do if you needed to know it on a granular level.

Cristina: No, but it just. Magic equals body. I don't.

Jack: Yeah. It would be like if you started waving a wand over an empty area, and then a bunch of light started to begin, and then it overtook the spot, and then the light fades and.

Cristina: There'S just either horrifying, but okay.

Jack: Yeah. And then you move a soul into it, giving it consciousness.

Cristina: So this spell is, like, ridiculous, because it's not just making you a body, it's also, like, you could put whatever soul you want into that body.

Jack: Yeah, well, it needs to be a soul that doesn't have a body.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Somebody dead.

Cristina: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jack: So. Yeah, it's overpowered. Unicorn crap is overpowered. The. This is overpowered. It is. If you were to drink the same blood, you would be immortal.

Cristina: Drinking the unicorn's blood will make you immortal?

Jack: Yep. One shot. One shot, you're just mortal.

Cristina: Then why would you even waste your magic on making a body? I guess, like, if you're trying to bring someone back to life. Yeah, I guess. Okay, that makes sense.

Jack: Yes. That is the way that I think that would be most likely. You.

Cristina: Yes. Yes. Because I'm thinking about yourself. Like, why would you do that? If you could just drink the blood and live forever, why would you move into another body now?

Jack: The horn can be used to grant immortality as well, but only as long as you're regularly consuming teas made from the powder. So a potion, Essentially. As long as you're consuming the potion made by Alicorn, you will remain immortal. So it needs to stay in your system and it will keep you immortal.

Cristina: Is that. Somehow I don't get why that would be the option. If you have the option of the blood or the horns, unless you're. I guess it's more reasonable because what if you do want to die? At least you have the option.

Jack: You have the option. While you drink the blood, you're just screwed. Yeah.

Cristina: Yeah. So that kind of makes sense.

Jack: Yeah. Interesting other things about the horn. Holding it gives you infinite energy. As long as you're in contact with it, you are some savage of sorts. It's not even drinking it. This is contact with the horn, Just touching it.

Cristina: I need a horn. What?

Jack: Yeah. Endless stamina. It makes the. Holding. It just holding it makes the holder capable of seeing magic auras. You could tell what beings are magic beings by holding. By being in contact with this. These are abilities just for touching it?

Cristina: Yeah. There's more than One, I guess there's two so far, but is there more?

Jack: Yeah. If you were to drink from the horn, you would cure any ailment. You don't even need alicorn.

Cristina: You just putting something into the horn and then drinking.

Jack: Yeah. Pour water into it and drink the water. The water's been purified.

Cristina: And then you feel better, and then.

Jack: You will heal poisoning or any disease you've gotten.

Cristina: Who's testing all this out?

Jack: This is just stories from history. A lot of them are Greek.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Holding it halts aging as well. Again, the immortality. But not just you won't die, but you won't age either, as long as you're in contact with. You're not aging for that period of time.

Cristina: Okay, so if you just decide to drink the. The blood, you will live forever, but you'll still be aging.

Jack: I'm assuming that with the blood, you've got pure immortality. Like, that's age. And you're not dying while coming in contact with this keeps you young and keeps you like it's. Yeah, it's immortality again, as long as you're touching it. Yeah, but as you stop touching it.

Cristina: You'Re mortal again, undrinking from it. Not drinking from the powder.

Jack: Drinking the powder regularly would keep you from aging for that period of time and will keep you from dying from any natural causes for that time.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Now, teas made and potions made from the horn can heal anything nice. Of course, they provide special abilities of different sorts, depending on who drinks it. That's the closest. Yeah, that's the closest thing to adrenochrome that I could find. But it doesn't seem like anybody becomes dependent on it.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: The closest thing to dependency is needing to ritually drink the thing. But again, if you just choose that you want to die, you still have the option. So there's reasons to stop taking it. This specifically, if you drink the powder. Yeah. You actually get eternal youth separate from immortality. So maybe you don't have eternal youth after you drank the blood. Maybe you do just have immortality. There is a difference. Unless it's establishing that there is a difference here between the two things. You can make a tea that will give you mortality, and you can make a tea that will give you youth. While drinking the blood gives you both youth and immortality. And being in contact with it, as long as you're in contact with it gives you both the things.

Cristina: That sounds so complicated that drinking it. You can get different things. But it's like, is it because you're making it differently it's in your body.

Jack: You're touching it in one aspect, it's part of you in the other. Now, something we did not consider, didn't cross my mind last time, is unicorn tears is apparently a thing.

Cristina: What do you mean? Like, people drink unicorn tears?

Jack: Yes. The unicorn tears is the equivalent of drinking unicorn blood. So in theory, you could trap a unicorn.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And drink its tears to acquire the same things you would get from the blood.

Cristina: That is so awful you could sell.

Jack: It if you wanted to. In fact, that is the only other thing I know that has been sold other than alicorn.

Cristina: Someone's selling unicorn tears?

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: What is it? A merchant? It's a merchant that travels.

Jack: No, no. There's a whole complex story going on with that. Now, another interesting thing about this tear, which I'm assuming happens with the blood as well, but I'm thinking people are greedy with the blood because it's a one shotter, as opposed to the tears, which you can probably continue to milk. But a single teardrop can. Can heal thousands of people. That's the level of potency it has. You can continue to make from that one thing.

Cristina: That's crazy. How do you even. Like how.

Jack: Now, interesting part about that. There is a town in Greece.

Cristina: That's exactly what I thought you were going to say. Okay.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Called.

Jack: Where is the name of this town?

Cristina: Unicornia.

Jack: Unicornia. It's called Simia or something like that. It's the weirdest name.

Cristina: Smurf. Are they blue?

Jack: Oh, no. Okay, so it was in a poros. There was a. What was I trying to tell you?

Cristina: Something happened in a town in Greece. I don't know.

Jack: What was it we were talking about specifically? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a illness going around, and a single teardrop was dropped into a pond, and it healed the. And all the people living off of that water later, attracting some interesting people, which I'll get to in a moment. Let me just go over some of these last details about unicorns. You want specific instances of unicorns being magic outside of their body parts, being used for things?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: There have been unicorns. Let's see. They can heal wounds by touching it with their horn. People have gone into the woods seeking what they have referred to as the. The. The. The forest spirit, which has been described as a horned horse.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: And they go there to be healed, be touched by its sacred horn. And they come back. The unicorn in all of these instances is one with a spiral horn, not just a pointy one.

Cristina: Are there different types of unicorns?

Jack: Could be. Not entirely sure. Similar to the instance of its tears purifying the water in Poros. There's also a unicorn that would regularly walk over a lake in the Persian Gulf, which, ironically, we just talked about as well, when we were talking about ancient civilizations. And where it would walk would be purified and clear, and people would drink that water and people would use that water to heal.

Cristina: Any mentions of anyone having them as.

Jack: Pets, I did not see anything about that.

Cristina: They all just wild.

Jack: Yeah. Because the other interesting thing, which is what I'm getting to now, is that they seem to be capable of not just being elusive out in the wild and outpacing anything trying to see them, but if they happen to be cornered, they can just disappear in front of you.

Cristina: Then how did people get their blood, their horn?

Jack: It's tricky.

Cristina: That's gotta be really tricky.

Jack: Yeah. You got.

Cristina: Again, it's that rare, a dying unicorn.

Jack: Because they're immortal themselves. If they can just be in front of you and not see you, you have an advantage. It's. It's this rare. It's that level of rarity.

Cristina: I wonder if they can heal their horn, though, like, if these people are.

Jack: I'm sure if you got the horn, you killed the thing. I'm sure. That said, at that point, you're using all of its parts, and we're talking about the effectiveness of all its parts.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Because I don't think you'd be able to take its horn and it be alive and conscious. Now, another interesting thing about unicorns, which again, adds to the elusive. They can walk defying gravity. Unicorn can move vertically as if it were walking on the ground. And almost all the Greek stories have that being the instance of it eluding people. You chase it through the woods, and at some point it just starts becoming a little more vertical, and it just up, up, up, and now just above the trees, and you can't catch it.

Cristina: That's funny.

Jack: Yeah. So it's like if it's not outpacing you on the ground and somehow you kept up. Okay. It'll just alter its degree enough to.

Cristina: That's very interesting to see.

Jack: Yeah. So those are some of. And now every single one of those things I've told you come from a Greek source. All of them.

Cristina: Okay. Different sources or.

Jack: Yeah, different sources. Okay, so let's begin. When we were talking about unicorns, we talked about the merchant.

Cristina: Yes. He's coming back.

Jack: The merchant's coming back. Apparently, my mistake was looking through these more public records that were of people's direct Sighting as opposed to looking through actual documents kept. Because when you go through actual documents kept, this man has been tracked. And people were kind of confused and interested in this man. He's been mentioned and he's been in a lot of places. So let us begin with where the first mention of this guy is.

Cristina: Do we have any of his writing? Did he keep any stories or anything? The pizza fun later on?

Jack: No, he just seems to have been a merchant. I don't know if he was even literate because of which you'll see here. Okay, so the merchant in question has a name and his name is Antonio Dracos.

Cristina: That's a very strange name.

Jack: Translates to dragon. Antonio Dragon.

Cristina: He definitely deals with the dread of. With that type of name.

Jack: Hey, who knows? But let us go to where this starts to matter. It is 1730. This is nine years before we had sightings of him in 1739.

Cristina: How many years?

Jack: Nine years prior to the information I provided last time we talked about this man. So this documentation, all of these are just random records kept by record keepers of different sorts. I don't know the relevance or the importance of any of the records. There was a lot. A lot like I was trying to.

Cristina: You have locations?

Jack: Yes, sometimes.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: They're all happening in Greece. All the records are being in Captain Greece. His movements are tracked because I guess when he returns, he reports his activities. I'm not sure what the case might be. So 19, I mean 1730, Antonio Dracos is given what he was told was unicorn horn at the Jordan river by a Russian man claiming it was from a mountain in Greece. The Russian man handed the horn over prior to his death at the hands of the military. There is no further explanation at what the f***. Why he was being attacked by the military.

Cristina: So this random dude gave the merchant the unicorn that he just uses? Not the unicorn, but the uniform horn that he gives to everyone else.

Jack: Yes. Interesting. Presumably he receives this horn because he's a merchant. And the guy is just like here, there's actually his name, his Russian man named John.

Cristina: John.

Jack: Yeah. I don't know why he was John, but yeah, his name was John. And this Russian man named John was claiming it came from a mountain in Greece, hands it to him and tells him it's the horn of a unicorn. There's no specification if he was told what to do with it or anything.

Cristina: That's so weird. He was just. Well, I mean, who knows? He's just. That's all that they have.

Jack: Yes. And he could not press forward and ask more because the man who provided it, the Russian man, was murdered shortly after by the military. So he couldn't find out, like, what did you hand me and why?

Cristina: Yes, but he figured it out. I'm guessing if he was giving it to people.

Jack: That's unclear.

Cristina: What's unclear?

Jack: Any of this information I provided before, it was all non professional records.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The closest to professional we had was the captain of the ship. The rest of them were just people writing in journals, essentially, old records that somebody retrieved, put away and like somehow successfully matched it to the.

Cristina: He said that he saw him give it to people or he was. Just saw him offering it and he assumed.

Jack: Yes, he made the connection. He didn't. He didn't see any of the of happen.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: He like, definitely saw situations that were suspicious and he's like. It seemed like it would be the thing.

Cristina: And these stories, the new stories that are actually the older stories that you're bringing up, he doesn't sell it to anyone.

Jack: You would find out when we arrive at that point.

Cristina: But you just said that he doesn't.

Jack: I said he. I didn't say he doesn't hand it out.

Cristina: Sure.

Jack: Yeah. But anyways, so that happened in 1730. He receives it from a random Russian guy, no idea where it came from, gets told it's from Greece. He's Greek.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: By the way, he's Greek. And. Yeah, okay, fine. So two years go by before this is mentioned again. Mm, weird.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: This is like a ridiculous amount of time for you to have something crazy like this. The next mention is 1732. Dracos delivers the horn to a priest, Nicolas Severino Albini. Nicolas Averillo Albini in Poros, Greece, which is one of the people attracted by the lake that was purified by the alleged tears of Anacorn. He was led there because of that.

Cristina: The priest.

Jack: Priest was led to that lake because of that, where Dracos then goes and meets the priest. So the priest has been there for a while. He was drawn to that lake because something odd that happened there. Now, while at that lake, he uses the horn to repurify it. And it works.

Cristina: What does that even mean? Like, how can they tell that it's being purified?

Jack: Well, according to them, yeah, according to them, it was toxic water. It was foggy, it was dirty, it was not safe. And then they touched it with the unicorn horn and it became clear instantaneously.

Cristina: Then he tried to steal it.

Jack: Well, it was definitely an illuminating moment. So now they claim it purified the hot spring. It was A natural spring that was there and it didn't heal this man. But in doing that, because again, he was drawn there by like, this is holy water of some sort, but it never turned out to be holy. While he was there is a priest looking for something related to God and he gets here. And this is a dirty lake that was said to be purified. Well, when the spring is purified, a man named, a bishop actually named Lackavos II was suffering a lot of pain and ill. And the spring fully healed this man according to both Dracos and the priest.

Cristina: Okay, what was he dying from?

Jack: Not dying, but he just had illnesses of the past that are probably easily dealt with with like an aspirin, but back then would just murder you.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So yeah, the following year, 1733, that's.

Cristina: The end of that story.

Jack: This is just random.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Things that show up here and there. Dracos and Albini still hanging out together.

Cristina: It seems cool. Okay. That's what I wanted to know.

Jack: Established a research organization and disguised it as an evangelical school.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The sole purpose was to bring the greatest minds in the world and study the horn, which according to the priest, possessed ability to define nature. That was specifically in a record in quotes. That was direct quote from the priest. Possessed the ability to defy nature was the words that man used.

Cristina: So he thinks it's magical.

Jack: He thinks it's magical. He did not at any moment say it's from God.

Cristina: Yeah, that's what I was about to say.

Jack: Now I respect this priest for not making that conclusion by default.

Cristina: That's so weird that he didn't.

Jack: But that's really weird that he didn't. But it's also weird that he would pull people other than other priests. Yeah, he was already open minded. He was looking for any perspective. What are we looking at?

Cristina: Yeah, but that's just crazy because you would assume he would just connect the dots to God without needing any or. Well, no, it being evil.

Jack: Like religion is a cult today. And religion was a cult surrounding the ideology of Jesus in a specific form. But religion has not always been the case. Isaac Newton was a Catholic. You know, Christians have been some of the most open minded people in the world and the most progressive people in the world. It's the cultists that believe that science is not a gift from God, but rather that despite all your scientific advancements, God is. It's like, no, okay. Everything could have been God, all of it, even the things we've made. So chill. Scientists believe of the old believe that logic.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The Enlightenment era was filled with that idea that, well, how do we supersede the sciences and religions? Well, let's dive headfirst into the philosophies.

Cristina: Okay. And they made a school.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: So explore the. What it could do.

Jack: Yes. They made a school with the intent of attracting the greatest minds, bring them together and in. Just figure this thing out. Now, it's really interesting that this would be happening around the 1730s to 1740s, because 1730s to about 1760s is considered the Enlightenment here. Interesting that this thing would start moving right at the beginning of that bracket. And you'll notice that it cuts it kind of close to the very end that we mark as the end of the Alienman era. Weird coincidence.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: The plot thickens now. Two more years go by, man.

Cristina: Okay, yeah.

Jack: Now he's been with his horn for five years.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: 1735 on its way to a study collective along the Russian Turkish border. Word gets out about an object capable of granting immortality. Leaders and the military on either side of the border immediately try to acquire the horn, taking the lives of several of the scholars in the process.

Cristina: Oh, snap.

Jack: Okay, Draco and Albini go on the run. They're still together so far. Nice buddy cop situation going on. Bromance. Yes. I looked into different. Oh, by the way, again, I don't know. These are just records. But weirdly enough, this ties into a lot of real things that happened at the same time.

Cristina: Like what?

Jack: There was a Russian guy named John who was a really important, like, religious figure. The records don't make any attempt to connect the two dots. So it could just. This is probably just a different guy who's Russian named John, but another Russian guy named John. It was another Russian guy named John. Okay, yeah, that was weird coincidence.

Cristina: Was there another guy named Antonio or whatever his name is?

Jack: Dracos. No, that's the only one I found of him. I only found one because I did go. I had the same thought, like, is this being stolen from throughout the world? I only found one priest called Nico. I could confirm his existence. I could confirm. A lot of the stuff here is just how some of this sticks out. And it's like, man, it's totally possible this guy was that guy over there. And like, well, this is just a record. This problem. This guy had to be objective. He couldn't put religion into it. And he just saw a guy who did a thing and whatever recorded it. Meanwhile, that biblical figure over there did the same thing. And it's like this guy recorded an actual record about something in The Bible. It's like, holy crap, dude. So some of that was happening.

Cristina: Okay, yeah, yeah.

Jack: Like solid records about things like that. And like. Yeah. So the. The Russian John, biblical figure.

Cristina: The Russian. Yeah, Named John.

Jack: The Russian named John, biblical figure. Now, not the same guy because it seems like gap.

Cristina: Wait, they're both Russian?

Jack: They're both Russian, yes. But there's a gap between them. Okay, yeah, like the. Basically you look up the Russian John, some sort of bishop, and he was. He died in the. In like 120.

Cristina: So the merchant and the bishop or whatever he is, the priest. Priests are both Russian.

Jack: No, they're Greek. I think I know that. Antonio Dracos is Greek.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Yeah, I think Nikolai might be. He was either Irish or something like that.

Cristina: I don't remember. Oh, okay.

Jack: He's just traveling scholars for the most part. So they just met him West Bubba or whatever. Actually, no, he might be himself. Greek. I think they're both Greek. I'm not entirely sure.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: But yeah.

Cristina: So they're on the run.

Jack: Yeah, they go on the run following the. Okay, now again, I'm looking. My point of saying this is that I'm looking, you know, I'm confirming things. I'm trying to make sure that these records aren't just bull crap. And yes, there was a crazy war that happened in between Russia and Turkey. Allegedly a political war that was erupted by an unknown situation directly happening at the border, which in these records happen to have a unicorn horn traveling right down the middle. And then two different sides spaz out and try to attack. So there's actually confirmation that a war broke out about some object. Unclear what it was, object or circumstance. Something happened in between both borders that immediately set things off. They claimed it was all political related.

Cristina: But it could be unicorn or related.

Jack: Yeah. Because this thing lines up perfectly in official records.

Cristina: Mm What? How far does their story go?

Jack: We will find out as it progresses.

Cristina: But like, it's a long story.

Jack: It's a story.

Cristina: Now.

Jack: It was last time we hear from them in 1735. Now it is 1739. This is where we had our first note from the people that I provided as sources last time. Like, because we saw him from 1739.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: To 1741 in three countries touching each other. Now we've just been traveling all over the place. Russia, Turkey.

Cristina: We were in Greece, but they're all still. Those are relatively close.

Jack: Just farther than we traveled before. But now he also has a lot more time to get from one place to another, because we're talking 10 years from one point to another. Yeah, so there's that. This makes a lot more sense. But 1739, Albini is killed.

Cristina: Which one's Albini?

Jack: He is the priest.

Cristina: Priest. Okay.

Jack: And the horn is believe lost, ending a great conflict that had begun between Russia and Turkey, of course, which literally ended around that point. Confirmable both in this unrelated record and in the actual records of war.

Cristina: But that's weird because there's still a guy with a unicorn horn. Like, why did they stop? Did they think when they killed that.

Jack: Guy disappeared, they couldn't find it?

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: It just. Poof.

Cristina: That's crazy. Okay.

Jack: Yes. 1740. This is the second time we see him. While hiding out in the island of Chios in Greece, Drakos meets a man named John. A different man named John claims to have come in contact with a unicorn horn ages ago. Warns Drakos that simply touching it has drastically affected his life. Now, this was unclear if he meant him touching it or you touching it has affected your life.

Cristina: Now it sounds like time travel.

Jack: Why?

Cristina: I don't know if it's somehow the same guy you mentioned. Like, the dead coming back and stuff. Like. Is this John? Did he come back?

Jack: No, this is. He knew John.

Cristina: This John, though.

Jack: Yeah. This isn't the Russian John.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Some other guy who's experienced weird things with the unicorn.

Jack: Yes. He says it's been a long time. Like ages ago, I experienced an encounter with a unicorn horn. You've messed up.

Cristina: But how? He doesn't explain what?

Jack: No, these are just almost like blurbs, essentially. Record keeping was whack back then, but then again, this was also the most advanced level of recording.

Cristina: This would be the closest to, like, it can do bad. It could be similar to adrenochrome, but.

Jack: Yeah, totally didn't specify any of that. Yeah, some weird middle ground, essentially. But we go then a little farther. So he meets a guy named John. And this guy named John, direct, straight, goes to the residence of a theologian and philosopher, Vilkentios de Mados. There he meets a carpenter as well, who went by the name of Harrison.

Cristina: Okay, I thought you say John again, but okay.

Jack: No. So we got the models and we.

Cristina: Have Harrison Carpenter and a what again?

Jack: A carpenter. And the other one is a theologian and philosopher. And he meets them there as directed by John, who then saw him with the horn and it's like, you messed up, but okay, you need the next lead. Go that way. That's where you need to go with this thing now. Okay. There are many people who have Seen unicorn horns at this point. We have the guy who gave it to him. We have the people he's shown it to. Philosophers. Entire collective of people who got together. Yeah. Just trying to study this thing in secrecy without the word getting out. We saw what happened the second. The second the word got out.

Cristina: Countries at war.

Jack: Countries at war. Instantaneously.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So this is an interesting problem. To have to own this thing. That seems to be the real deal.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And not know what to do with it. You can't. Obviously you can't. Just. My. My idea here is Draco's. Keeps wandering with this thing because he doesn't want it to fall into the wrong hands. That's my theory. Because why is he still traveling with this thing?

Cristina: Yes. But he still wants to show it to people too.

Jack: He wants to study it. He hasn't shown it to strangers. He's always taking it to the next person who should see it. Not a stranger.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: It's always the next individual that should see it. That's somebody who has a different perspective. Somebody who studies things. Somebody who's experienced in some manner, shape, or form related to some manner, shape or form of something they've seen similar. It's weird that no hunters are mentioned in the story or anything of that nature, because that seems like something that would make perfect sense.

Cristina: Yes. I still wonder, like, what was that warning about?

Jack: What was the warning about? That's unclear. This man is like bad luck for you, bro. Alternatively, one of the things you get from touching the horn is you have infinite luck while you're in contact with it. That was actually one of the abilities. Luck. Go gamble while holding that horn. It's going to work out.

Cristina: That's awesome. Okay. I mean, I guess the only. The only real bad luck is people trying to kill you.

Jack: Yeah. Which is happening instantaneously. And they lost many intelligent minds because of their presence around it.

Cristina: Mm. I don't know. It's tricky.

Jack: Interesting problem. Right?

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So this thing has traveled quite the distance. There's been a million places. And 1950 rolls by after he's met Demon. This is. This is the leap. This is a 10 year jump. The last time we hear from him, he came. He came. It was 1740. We only hear from him. Following the last note is the captain's logs for his ship. And that's only one year after this point. Which means we have no record of him from 1741 to 1750. And then all we have is in 1750, the Draco dies. According to the models, as a result of an experiment conducted on the remaining fragments of the horn. Something.

Cristina: Say that again.

Jack: Dracos dies according to the mottos.

Cristina: Which one's the models?

Jack: The philosopher, theologian. He. As a result of an experiment conducted on the remaining fragments of the horn. What happened in the nine years? Where's the rest of it? Why is it fragmented?

Cristina: Well, he's been testing out that whole time.

Jack: Fair enough. You're thinking this whole time it's just these people and whoever else. Like scientists and philosophers that could get together just working on it quietly telling nobody because it was just too dangerous to have out there.

Cristina: Okay, but what? That doesn't even make sense because it's supposed to keep you alive forever. But somehow he died from it.

Jack: I. Something happened relative to it. We don't know what Draco said it was. Dimato said it was part of an experiment.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it could have might have not been the horn. Maybe he's too much energy shot out of the thing at once and killed him. Who knows? Harrison still with them? The carpenter. Weird.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Takes one third of the remaining fragments back. Actually, no. Takes 2/3 of the remaining fragments back to England and leaves one third for the models. Divides those two thirds he took into two sets. One to remain in England and the other is given to an American named Franklin. Spread between these two countries. Why don't I.

Cristina: What's this Franklin?

Jack: Dunno. Some connection of Harrison.

Cristina: What? It's so random. This carpenter just decides I'm gonna take it. I'm gonna give it to this other guy.

Jack: Been with these two other people and who knows how many others for the last nine years.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: He's not just a carpenter.

Cristina: But what is he planning to do? Did they say.

Jack: Now we don't hear from any of these people directly anymore. We have a gap. That record was in 1750, 1810.

Cristina: How many years is that?

Jack: That is 60 years later.

Cristina: Someone's. Okay. What's going on?

Jack: A Greek record written by a macarios claims a man named Euthymius was in possession of a substance similar to one he studied in his youth under a man named Dracos in the early 1950s. And that Euthymius claims he got it from a mountain named Athos.

Cristina: Mountain?

Jack: A mountain named Athos? I confirmed that is a mountain in Greece.

Cristina: Okay, but I thought the original guy got it on a mountain in Russia.

Jack: Then he got on the mountain Greece.

Cristina: The first guy.

Jack: Yes. You are talking about the Russian.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And the Russian specifically says he got it from a mountain in Greece.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: And now we have another Guy claiming he has shown up with something identical from a mountain in Greece.

Cristina: So unicorns are hanging out on mountaintops?

Jack: Mountaintops in Greece, apparently so. That's weird.

Cristina: That is weird. But it's right, I guess. I mean, that's. If you're gonna find them somewhere like that. Seems like where they like to be.

Jack: Yeah, I guess it would be.

Cristina: We gotta go there.

Jack: Well, I looked up Makarios, and it was either in 1812 or 1813, that man died.

Cristina: Which one's Macario?

Jack: He's the guy who wrote the record.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: Oh, no. My bad. I didn't. Makarios was the record writer. The guy who died was Euthemius, the.

Cristina: Guy who went to the mountain.

Jack: The guy who got the unicorn from the. The horn. The horn from the mountain or the material. Whatever. He got the thing from the mountain. He was executed by the church two, three years later.

Cristina: The church.

Jack: The church.

Cristina: Interesting. Yes. And because the unicorn, even if he had some of the unicorn stuff, it doesn't keep you alive forever.

Jack: No. You have to be in contact with it, or you have to drink the unicorn's blood. He did not acquire this horn. He. He was in possession of it. Otherwise he would have been immortal.

Jack: I guess immortality means they could have.

Cristina: Taken away from him and then he stopped being immortal.

Jack: I guess you could still die if you're immortal. My thought is you're just not gonna die of natural causes your age. But, like, I could walk up and shoot you with a gun, right?

Cristina: Yes. I don't know. They aren't really specific.

Jack: It never said they're bulletproof or something, you know, like my blade could not pierce his skin or anything. That was never mentioned.

Cristina: Yeah. There's so far no mention of someone who lived forever.

Jack: Yes. It was always like, you still died from, like, some horrible thing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Now 1815 is the last record. Mention of this From Greek Records. 1815, a Greek record written by a different man named Aus, claims that he acquired a horn of a horse atop the Mount Athos.

Cristina: Whoa. So he got a unicorn and that was it. That's it. He just mentions it.

Jack: It never gets mentioned again. It looks like that's the last record he ever wrote. He was not old either. He was in his mid-20s.

Cristina: Someone killed him. That has to be the only reason. Because the other guy got to do this whole school. He got on an adventure. He was also killed.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Everyone involved in, you know, like, the guy warned him something bad is gonna happen.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: And it's not that the unicorn horn.

Jack: Is gonna do something that's everybody else. It's. You know what it reminds me a lot of. And like, who knows if this was the direct inspiration for this, but it sounds a lot like the ring from Lord of the Rings.

Cristina: Yes. The way they get obsessed with it.

Jack: Yes. There was wars fought over this ring. Like, what. What's our junior. Rolling. That's the name of the lady wrote this. Or the guy who. Whatever. Whoever. No, that's from Harry Potter. Right. J.K. rowling. That's Harry Potter. Well, whoever.

Cristina: The JJR or something.

Jack: Yeah, that guy, whoever wrote this might have been directly inspired. Wait, when? How long ago was that guy?

Cristina: Let's find out.

Jack: Okay, so he was definitely. He was a well informed, studied guy in all areas of mythology and theology. So it's definitely possible that the works of Tolkien were inspired by at least some aspects of Greek writing and record keeping. Because he was into all of it. He was into all of the things.

Cristina: He's into all the things. That's crazy.

Jack: Yeah. So his work is mesh of a lot of things. He definitely saw something that told him about an object everybody was chasing.

Cristina: Yes. What did that. What inspired him for that little part? That's so exact.

Jack: Yes, that's so exact and feels so identical to what we're seeing here of entire countries erupting into chaos entirely because of the mention.

Cristina: Oh, it's. Come on. It's the same story.

Jack: It feels the same. People chasing people through treks across years just looking for the thing. These guys ran away. They were on the move for nine years before they still found them and killed. Like, what?

Cristina: And we don't. And what if the people were also obsessed with it as well? Like he was traveling to meet other people. Were they becoming also obsessed with it? Everyone he brought the horn to also.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Became very involved.

Jack: One of the interesting things about one of those notes is the fact that it didn't just say that they were attacked and went on the run. It said that there were a bunch of philosophers there that died.

Cristina: Whole school was with them.

Jack: Yeah. Everybody started just walking behind the horn.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Everybody who came in contact with it wanted to see it, wanted to touch it, wanted to be around it.

Cristina: They might not have been fighting each other for it because they were sharing it. They weren't like, it doesn't make you that greedy except for if you want it and you're outside of the group. Yes, yes. Those people want it now.

Jack: Weird, weird, weird, weird, weird, weird. Because we have an example, something very similar to this, and this is the fact that a man named Jesus Kept walking around and people just started following him. Little by little we just meet them, give them some sort of quote, enlightenment, unquote. And now these people, regardless of religion, regardless of background, regardless of crime you've committed, people you hate, what side of any war you might be on, you're.

Cristina: Just like, he had uniform blood or something. Like he was also doing magic.

Jack: He was also doing magic. Now again, we. We definitely very sure that he's a vampire. Everything on paper suggests vampire, but there's this one just similarity that's even more similar than adrenochrome. Because people get obsessed with adrenochrome, but uncontrollably. You're gonna be greedy on adrenochrome.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Everybody's greedy on a drainicle. But doesn't seem to be the case if you're around the unicorn horn. No, you guys can share it.

Cristina: Yeah. These guys literally split it three ways.

Jack: And they were all happy to go their separate ways.

Cristina: Yeah. No one. Yeah.

Jack: As long as you have some, you're fine. It's like an addiction, a fix. You need it. Which is actually real similar to adrenochrome.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But these people aren't even drinking it. Being in contact with it takes you to that same place at that same level.

Cristina: Happy with a fragment of it. Like you need a lot of it. You can have the teeniest amount and be like, yeah, this is fine.

Jack: Well, this brings up another point. It just suddenly fragmented in a nine year period. Did people just want a little bit for you? A little bit for you, a little bit for you? Everybody take a piece. It's overpowered. And we'll have infinite power forever if we just take it.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Thus the enlightenment. Everybody enlightened.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Had it.

Cristina: Oh, okay then. Layman. Yes, man. Jesus had unicorn blood.

Jack: Jesus was a vampire.

Cristina: He was a vampire, but he was also born from a lady. Like he wasn't just one day. He didn't just. He wasn't born a vampire.

Jack: Yeah. And he definitely wasn't a vampire or powerful anywhere until he was 30 years old. Which means something got to him. It wasn't power he had.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Which sounds like vampire. Something bit him. And then he's just always powerful.

Cristina: I don't.

Jack: I mean, we don't know he was bitten. We know he's always powerful. That feels like a vampire. He doesn't need any more of anything. Or he's surviving off of fear, which he's not because he's the peace preacher.

Cristina: Unless he's surviving off a uniform blood. Not even peace. He Just needs to drink it once.

Jack: He just needs to drink it. Fair enough.

Cristina: And then he does her.

Jack: Is that what a vampire is? Somebody who bit somebody after they themselves had unicorn blood? No, because then you still got to drink vampires. Essentially. It. It is, because we know a vampire has. What you're getting is adrenochrome. That is the point. That is the human affliction. You become a vampire, and then when you don't have it, you go feral and become a zombie. So it's literally adrenochrome. Jesus was literally on adrenochrome.

Cristina: He was doing both because he kept.

Jack: He was fixed. He was. He was addicted. He was. He needed to keep gathering more people. And that's where he's getting his source.

Cristina: Yes, for sure.

Jack: So he didn't need unicorns blood. It's similar. And I guess I began wrong by.

Cristina: Saying giving him abilities.

Jack: Maybe the adrenochrome did that.

Cristina: But we don't know what's the limit of that, of those abilities.

Jack: We. There's no limit to adrenochrome. People become literal gods on it.

Cristina: Oh, that's true. Okay. Yes, yes, yes. So he doesn't need.

Jack: There's similarities, but there's. It's different in that you don't need.

Cristina: To consume, but it does help with the whole. Like, how did he get these followers?

Jack: Vampirism and the vampire hypnosis. Why do you want to fix this to Jesus? So hard?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Everything says he's a vampire. Everything assures us we've gone down this road.

Cristina: He's.

Jack: He's definitely a vampire. The first, most likely.

Cristina: But the Church, Are they all vampires? They're not vampires.

Jack: Here's the thing. The Church also seems to be balls deep in adrenochrome. But weirdly enough, one guy is offed by the Church. By the Church. Fun fact. I didn't mention this part because I didn't write those notes. But the last note, 1815. The guy who wrote that note was killed by the Church.

Cristina: What?

Jack: So, yeah, that's why he disappeared, actually.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Okay. Come on. Okay. The church at least cares about or doesn't care about it. I mean, they care enough that they don't want anyone to have it.

Jack: Nobody could. Church. That's the goal. Nobody overpowers the Church. Anything that has powers, we hide in some chamber somewhere. Yes, and we know the chamber exists. Like this is public knowledge that it exists.

Cristina: Ah. Are they killing you in a corns off too? Is that why there's no stories of unicorns anymore?

Jack: I Don't know. It's pretty messed up because we know.

Cristina: That they go out and kill other quote unquote, demons.

Jack: They make the creatures.

Cristina: They make the creatures. Oh yeah, that's true. They make the creatures.

Jack: It's a mess. The church is. It seems that like the. The. The. The markers are always the same. We always come back to adrenochrome. We always come back to the church. And right now we found a different.

Cristina: Power source that the church is probably covering up or just getting rid of.

Jack: Yes. Because their way, their usual go to is adrenochrome. It's easily accessible. You can get it from anyone. While the elusive unicorn thing. No. But on the flip side, the unicorn is pure. It seems like once you have it, you're good. Adrenochrome, you always gotta come back.

Cristina: And they want that.

Jack: Yes, there's a. And visually, I guess it also fits the same. Right. One is beautiful, vibrant and gold. The other one's crimson and like, twisted looking. Yeah, you always gotta come back for that fix of the crimson one. But that gold beautiful one that comes from the white steed. No, you're good forever and it helps people without even having to consume it. This one. No, you only help yourself.

Cristina: That's what they're all about.

Jack: Interesting. They are. I guess the opposite of adrenochrome is unicorn blood.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: They're similar and different in exactly the right ways to be. Opposites.

Cristina: That's so crazy. We found an opposite to that. You wouldn't think there would be an opposite, but there is.

Jack: And it still bloods.

Cristina: Yes. Well, it's everything.

Jack: Everything.

Cristina: It's the whole horse package.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Yeah. The whole package.

Jack: Yeah. So this is the road I ended up falling down while reading a bunch of. And there were a lot. This is the kind of thing that you just gotta keep typing in the name, every possible combination you can just to see the next thing. I probably missed a lot of records. This is just what I found. We're talking thousands of records from. I mean, millions of records over the course of literal hundreds of years. And I've gotta hope that the names and don't come up with somebody. And again, we're talking Antonio's a common name. Like, that's not an easy search, but.

Cristina: So then you didn't look up anything specific from the church then, besides like this few mentions in the Bible.

Jack: Yeah, because the church doesn't have direct mentions of this at all. The church does quite the effort of making sure they hide it don't. And it seems that those Those early mentions were only left in order to make them seem abstract and detached, not real.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Anyways, that's what I got on unicorn. So there you go. You wanted to know about when are their unicorns being magical?

Cristina: So there is magical unicorns.

Jack: There are magical unicorns. Apparently they seem to exist in exactly the same place, which is Greece, a mountain called Athos. Weirdly enough, the Greeks are the only people who believe that unicorns are real. And they have a consistent, traceable record of encounters with it repeatedly. All of which can be confirmed through other sources. Weird.

Cristina: So it's a thing.

Jack: It's possible unicorns are real. We can't prove it.

Cristina: They've probably all been killed by the church.

Jack: But how does anybody get a hold of a unicorn?

Cristina: They so many people got the horns. Like, what are you talking about?

Jack: Well, we only know in the course of 400 years, four different. Well, actually in the course of three year, 300 years, it was mentioned. No, it wasn't. I guess it wasn't.

Cristina: In that small group of people traveling that was like four horns or three horns.

Jack: It was a hundred years. In the course of a hundred years, that's four horns. Because there's one that was given by the Russian. Yes, that is our main character. Then there is the one that the guy, the random guy John said he'd encountered.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And there's the two that these other people get. We don't know if it's the same horn or if it's two different horns. But the guy that saw the dude get it and the guy, he saw the guy get or not. But that guy was later executed. And the guy who then got a hold of a horn and he himself was executed.

Cristina: Yeah. It'll be more rare if it is still involved with the ones that the other two got.

Jack: Interesting. If it's been the same horn we're talking about. But the problem is the last two said they acquired it at the top of the mountain. On the flip side, they had nothing else of the unicorn. So they were given this. It looks like they're given this and they themselves don't know where it came from.

Cristina: You think unicorns shed or.

Jack: Interesting. I didn't think about that.

Cristina: It's so hard to catch. They can fly away. There's like they got so much abilities.

Jack: Yes. And a lot of the rest of the things involves permanence, but the horn doesn't.

Cristina: So maybe a shed. So maybe a shed.

Jack: Sort of just going up there and acquiring unicorn horns.

Cristina: Interesting. That's awesome.

Jack: So there you go. The possibility of unicorns. Anyways, anyways, if you guys are interested in these kinds of topics, we have an abundance of episodes on mythological creatures of all sorts. We have a bunch of episodes on weird things the church has done in many different instances.

Cristina: Definitely.

Jack: Yeah. There's episodes on all kinds of mythology and monsters and creatures and whatever, Adrenochrome. And we have a prior episode two weeks ago on unicorns. So, like, there's an abundance of places to come back to the source and see how we, like, how we learn.

Cristina: How we end up here.

Jack: Yeah, you guys can find, like, if you're interested in these kind of things and you like this conversation and you want more stuff, you could hit us us up to talk about it on our socials at just Convopod, that's Instagram, Twitter, Tik Tok, all those places.

Cristina: Remember to subscribe, rate, and review the show.

Jack: Yes. And word of mouth, people. It's very important that you tell people about the show. Anybody who's interested in Greek records or information, anybody who is interested in mythology and unicorns, anybody who's interested in anything. We talk about it all.

Cristina: Yeah. This has been the Rambling Pun podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Bye.

Jack: That's the only way. And if you know somebody who already wants to listen to the show with you, you backhand the s*** out of them and you say, how dare you? I didn't ask what. And then you go kidnap somebody anyways after you tied up that person that said they're totally down to listen, and you don't let them hear, but you force the other person to hear and you force the person who was down to hear to watch these. The other person you're forced into here.

Cristina: Well, aren't they gonna hear it?

Jack: No.

Cristina: The other person has. Wearing headphones.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Yep.

Cristina: That's awful. You're torturing two different people.

Jack: Nobody told them to volunteer.

Cristina: Good morning. Good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by great dots.info art by Zero Lupo, and logo by Seth McCallister with social media managed by Amber Black.

Rambling 211: Unicorns

Are unicorns real? Where do they come from? Can they help us figure out the Santa Clause Problem? The duo unpack Unicorns, their origins, what the truth about them might be and whether or not it would be useful to find one in order to use it to catch santa.

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed:

  • Unicorns
  • Indus Valley Civilization
  • Bestiaries
  • Powers
  • Greek Civilization
  • Middle Ages Europe
  • The Evidence
  • Magic Horn
  • Unicorn Powder Merchant
  • Adrenochrome

Our Links:

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod

Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod

Instagram -https://instagram.com/justconvopod


+Transcript

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Ramblin Podcast. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: I'm. I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And this is the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas, which we Every week.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And last week we were talking about giving ideas power. When we give ideas too much power and when we extract. Extract power from ideas as well. Collapsing entire things. Religions and governments and currencies. All things that are powered on sort of the energy, the power, the true magic of imagination. Imagination.

Cristina: Imagination.

Jack: A little rainbow. SpongeBob. Who does that? Right? Imagination. And so a little rainbow shows over my head. I'm gonna put the effects. Nobody can see it but you. But it's gonna be great. I'm gonna do it in post. There's not even video. You're the only one who's gonna see it.

Cristina: Me?

Jack: Yeah, you're gonna see. I don't even know where you're gonna see it because it would require some sort of playback of the. I'll get an artist to draw this moment with the rainbow so everyone can see it. So everyone can see it. Yeah, now everybody could see it. The medium that is accessible to the public.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Anyways, I would. What the h*** was I even saying?

Cristina: That we use too much power to monopoly money.

Jack: Yeah, we do give power to monopoly money. It's crazy, because the power of imagination, man. It's crazy. We do. We. We give these ideas power, and it is absurd that we do that, but sometimes we think that things don't have power and that they are ideas and they are the other way around.

Cristina: What do you mean?

Jack: So in opposite of giving ideas power, sometimes there are things that we just think aren't even things. They're just ideas. We're like, no, that's. That's just imaginary. And this happens pretty often. A real common occurrence in which this happens is aliens. A lot of people just think aliens don't exist.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: They just objectively are like, no, that can't happen. Especially like most people who believe in religions.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like the universe was made for us.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And so a lot of people do believe that there is no such thing as aliens. That's an imaginary idea to them. And that's. That's great. Whatever. But there's aliens.

Cristina: But there's aliens.

Jack: But there's aliens. We have many of them. So it's not that it's an imaginary idea, but this happens a lot, including things that we ourselves haven't really considered now, we've briefly glossed over, but we've never really deep doven into the mechanics of a unicorn.

Cristina: What?

Jack: Yeah, because there's a couple of ideas here, and I'm gonna show you where I began and where I ended with this thought. And it got really confusing and a bit scary at times.

Cristina: Because of the unicorn.

Jack: Because of the unicorn. And I became fascinated by the unicorn because. I don't know, it's an interesting, majestic creature that poses as something simple, is elusive the way like Bigfoot is.

Cristina: Yes. And are you saying people don't.

Jack: But people don't believe in the unicorn.

Cristina: But you're saying it's a thing?

Jack: Unicorn might be a thing.

Cristina: Why?

Jack: Well, the unicorn is. Well, before I even get to why it might be a thing, the idea behind this is that the unicorn itself possesses a certain kind of power and ability that it's. You know, it's like Bigfoot. It does disappear. It vanishes. It's elusive. We can't find it. People think that that's just a part of imagination. Because of that, there's no proof. The proof is gone. It ceases to exist. And I found that interesting that we do have this thing like Bigfoot that is there.

Cristina: Like, that's not a thing like Bigfoot, is it? I mean, maybe once upon a time. I don't even know.

Jack: I'm saying that it's elusive the way Bigfoot is.

Cristina: Like. Have there been stories of people seeing unicorns, though? Yes, but not recently.

Jack: Neither have there been stories of Bigfoot recently or aliens recently.

Cristina: I feel like more recent than unicorns, though.

Jack: I think unicorns right before Bigfoot.

Cristina: Really?

Jack: Yes, I think unicorn. I think bigfoot dominated the 20th century, like 1900s to the 2000s, but the unicorns was, like the 1800s. Maybe. Maybe a little earlier. Yeah, I don't think it was, like, way back. It was back there, but it lasted big, big, big. Still around this time, like, it ended towards the 18, you know, where they were seeing unicorns. I'm not sure where they were seeing unicorns per se, but I can give you some generalizations of to where unicorns were seen. But my interest in the unicorn came in that we've glossed over the unicorn before and haven't really been able to establish what it was. We. We joked about it being perhaps a horse.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: On adrenochrome. Because everything is on adrenochrome, and that just seems pretty obvious. Sometimes it's a small change, sometimes it's a big change.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like, Steve still looks like a plain groundhog. Like, sometimes he's just got powers. Or sometimes you go from being a wolf and become some crazy Wetchards looking thing, you know, Werewolf.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like drastically different things. So, yeah, it ranges. So I'm thinking it's that.

Cristina: That's what you think a unicorn is.

Jack: Yeah, I'm thinking the unicorn is that to begin with. Right.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: That's where my thought begins. I'm like, yeah. But then. Then I go through some stories which I'll tell you all about.

Cristina: How many involve blood?

Jack: Potentially one, but that's the one that matters.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And I don't actually, the potential is the best part here, because I don't think it is blood. And I think this is why we need to catch a unicorn.

Cristina: Of course. Okay.

Jack: Because I pose forward that the unicorn is using fear the way that Santa Claus is, but on an individual scale.

Cristina: What do you mean?

Jack: I am confident of it, but let's go down the rabbit hole.

Cristina: Okay. Honestly, I thought you were gonna say that it's. You think it's an alien?

Jack: I think it's an alien.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: I think it's some sort of Something figured it out. Something figured it out. I don't know what exactly it is. I just know it has powers. I guess the next step would be to find out if it is what we think. If it's doing what we think it's doing, then what is it?

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: That would be the next step.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Because it hasn't figured out how to do this on a scale like Santa Claus. But I'll show you as we move forward. So let's break apart the basic things we know about a unicorn. Right. A unicorn is usually thought of with a single long horn.

Cristina: Horn. Yeah. And it looks like a horse. And. Looks like a horse, I guess, too.

Jack: It's usually white.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And it's very, very absorbently white.

Cristina: Is that important?

Jack: Well, no, that's how we picture it.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And it's also, again, like I said before, highly elusive, really difficult to see, and they say it's magical.

Cristina: I don't understand. Are there stories that prove that it's magical besides, like, it's elusive? Because that's the same thing with Bigfoot. Like, it's magical because I don't. I don't get it. Like, the whole. It's hard to find proof of equals. It's got to be magical. Like, I don't. I don't see the connection there, but yeah.

Jack: Because what has the unicorn done? Right.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: What has the unicorn done? That's magical.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: For anybody to say it's magical.

Cristina: Exactly like the Bigfoot. What has it done?

Jack: Exactly. What has. It's just elusive.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: They're saying. Well, they're chalking that off. The magic immediately.

Cristina: Yes, that's what it feels like. But is there anything else to it?

Jack: It's like disappearing, right? Oh, it disappeared. It must be magic.

Cristina: Yes. Not that it knows everything around itself and is familiar and where's the best hiding spots and whatever, but. Okay.

Jack: Is there any other detail we know about a unicorn? Is that all of it?

Cristina: That's all I know. That's all I know. I don't think there's anything strange about it.

Jack: Nothing strange.

Cristina: I don't think it's bigger than any horse or smaller than any horse or like, there's nothing special. If you think of Harry Potter, it has silvery blood, but I think that's just a Harry Potter thing.

Jack: Interesting. I like that. That's cool.

Cristina: But that's not real. Is there any stories like that that would be interesting if there are stories like that and Harry Potter was just basing it off of.

Jack: You think Harry Potter would have the intelligence to go do some research on some crap? Well, I think the wonder there was that it was generated from somebody's mind as opposed to like. A lot of that was original. I'm sure it took inspiration from research that was done, but a lot of that was just in, like, original stuff. Although I am not the biggest fan of the entire. Of the Harry Potter world, I do value the level, the quality at which it was crafted. It is impressive. Yes. It's incredibly deep. Harry Potter is its work of genius. I'm just. It's not my thing. I don't like fantasy.

Cristina: You're a hater.

Jack: Yeah, I'm essentially a hater because I don't like fantasy, but I understand the value of it. You go through it. It is some. It is complicated and deep. But as for the unicorn, which Harry Potter has probably one of my favorite iterations of the unicorn. It was like a goth unicorn. The weird dark situation it was involved in because it was still mystical and, like, hidden. Right. It was just Voldemort hunted one down and just drank its blood.

Cristina: We had to keep doing. He has to keep doing that.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: He survives off of the unicorn blood.

Jack: That's crazy, right? The edge of life.

Cristina: Well, very adrenochromey type.

Jack: It is, right? It totally is, bro. He was on adrenochrome. Get the h*** out of here. It was Adrenochrome 100. You can't tell me anything else. He was a wizard on adrenochrome.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: That's how he became that freaking nature.

Cristina: He changed and everything. Exactly.

Jack: He changed his nose and everything. His face altered. He warped. The way something on adrenochrome would.

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: So early mentions of the unicorn because, you know, we gotta follow its trail, see where we could find one if it's so elusive. And boy, is it elusive. Aliens, way less elusive. Almost every civilization has some mention of aliens. Usually in the same manner. Saucers and like flying things and things coming from the sky. The same crap over and over and over.

Cristina: It's all UFOs. Yeah, that's the most common.

Jack: Always a hundred percent of it. But not in this case.

Cristina: What do you mean?

Jack: There are so few mentions of the unicorn it is absurd.

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: Like Jesus, kind of. It's like you got the Bible and then that's it.

Cristina: Yeah. So.

Jack: Well, and see, he's mentioned in the Quran. That's a lie. So he's mentioned the Bible in the Quran. It's like, okay, this is like, way less probable. There's nothing proving this thing is out.

Cristina: Here, the unicorn or Jesus either.

Jack: But there is the. In this valley civilization. Right. This is about 3,000 years before Christ. And they had mentioned in their scripture and in their writing a unicorn. And they mentioned it as a single centered curved horn that went forward and then up at the end. So it wiggled its way, which I've seen iterations of, and I didn't know where that came from. I've seen three different ones. It's the pointy spike, the spirally one, then the wiggly one. Seen all three. And I never really realized I was seeing all three until somebody made a distinction.

Cristina: Were you seeing them on different animals or you were seeing them?

Jack: No, all of them on unicorns, but different iterations of unicorns.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And so I thought that was interesting that that distinction was made. And then I remembered, yes, I've seen spiral horns and whatever in different, like, pictures and, you know, shows or movies or paintings or whatever. Except their description of this creature was that it was cow shaped.

Cristina: Cow shaped?

Jack: It was cow shaped.

Cristina: So it was a big boy.

Jack: And it was thought of as a symbol of power. They thought it was a powerful thing because of its size.

Cristina: I guess it's still a unicorn.

Jack: Nah, still a unicorn.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: What's interesting about this is they. Although not many places mentioned that they mentioned it often.

Cristina: They mentioned it, mentioned it often to.

Jack: The point that they would put this creature like it was part of their Normal ecosystem. They would place it on their crests, they would put it on there. It was like their, you know, their national creature, the unicorn.

Cristina: It could be just a mascot, have to be real things.

Jack: Yeah, but it was like the people's mascot essentially.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And they, they, you know, they wrote about it all the time, but could be, you know, like that episode of Star Trek. Their entire world revolved around the idea of a dragon. And they just talked about the dragon consistently like, okay, yeah, it makes sense.

Cristina: But there's no dragon.

Jack: Well, there's no dragon. Yeah, it doesn't need to be a dragon. This is a story. But they based off on story. So I'm thinking the unicorn could be that case in this situation that they kind of based so much of their society on the unicorn.

Cristina: Did they have cows though? Like. Yeah, it's described as a cow, but.

Jack: No, they didn't describe it as a cow. They said it was shaped like a cow. But they were fully aware of what a cow was.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And they were fully aware of what a horse was.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: This is like a cow shaped cow shaped thing with one single horn. Now what's interesting here is in trying to debunk this, my assumption would be the only cow shaped horned creature would be a rhinoceros. Seems powerful. It's bulky, it's a big boy and it's muscular. It looks like a tank and it's thick skinned. So if they're talking about something that's a symbol for power, I couldn't think of something that I think of more powerful.

Cristina: Where was this place at? Do you know?

Jack: I have no idea where this location.

Cristina: Is because yeah, rhino makes sense.

Jack: Rhinoceros does make sense.

Cristina: All right. I just looked it up. It says that it's in the northwestern regions of South Asia, which is Pakistan and northwest India and eastern Pakistan. I don't know if that's helpful. Here's a picture of a map of it.

Jack: But none of that's the Middle East.

Cristina: Yeah, none of it looks familiar. Yeah, I guess that's Asia. That's the Middle East. Right. Does that make sense?

Jack: No, the Middle east is in Asia. So that's just a corner of is there further away map, a further way map?

Cristina: This is like the only map I find and then it just shows.

Jack: Okay, so then, yeah, it's basically in the Middle East. If it's around Pakistan and India and that kind of region. So that's where the Indus Valley civilization was. And they, they thought of it as.

Cristina: A cow with a horn, there's gotta be rhinos there? No, I don't know.

Jack: There aren't any rhinos there. That's what's weird.

Cristina: If we look at where rhinos are.

Jack: Found, I'm sure it's gonna tell us. Africa.

Cristina: You think that's the only place in the world that has rhinos?

Jack: I. Yes, is my bet. I'm like, 95% positive.

Cristina: Okay. Like, two of them, the species are in Africa, and three are in south and Southeast Asia.

Jack: Holy crap.

Jack: So there are rhinos over there?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So at least close to there. Close enough because that's the Middle East. It's not the Southeast. Yeah, but it's close.

Cristina: So, yeah. It would have been probably rarely seen, but that's why it was so popular, because they never see it.

Jack: Door somewhere that they've never been to had a creature that had a horn and was big and bulky and elusive because they never seen it.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And the civilization was perhaps, probably based on the stories of one group who thought that it was common just over the hill. And they were like, what interesting creature? This? That's just over our hill. He's our creature too. We're all the same people. And he's just over the hill, and we've never seen him. He's that elusive.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Hangs out with only the people that are elusive like him over there now.

Cristina: So maybe nothing magical about that.

Jack: Maybe nothing magical about that. And that. That might hold some water to some degree. Except when you consider some of the greatest record keepers of the world, which are two. The Jews are amazing record keepers. They are some of the originators of record keepers. And the Greeks are the other really good record keepers. After they finally began record keeping, obviously, because a lot of the crap that they had was just hearsay. You know, I got a story. I told you the story. You told him the story. They told them the story. And it's like we got a million versions of the same story. Which version do we write down?

Cristina: And are these about unicorns, though?

Jack: Well, they don't actually have. This is what's interesting about the Greeks particularly. They don't have a single mention of a unicorn in their mythology, what I would expect.

Cristina: Oh, yeah.

Jack: This is where it gets really incredibly weird. The only place that they have unicorns mentioned are in their natural history books. And in their history books. So the natural history books, historians record them, and in just, like, biographies and stuff, people reporting to have seen unicorns.

Cristina: So there are mentions of it.

Jack: There are mentions only of unicorns in real world instances. There are no mythological unicorns in Weird.

Cristina: Yes, weird. They thought of unicorns as actual creatures, not magical creatures.

Jack: Yes, but this. It's not even the magical creatures. They thought of it as a real creature that existed somewhere. Yeah, with them.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Screw the magic. They. They just casually thought this was an everyday thing. Yes, but this is the second civilization that we've come across now. The only people who mention them. Mention them as what? As always present.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Second time. These people straight up just had them in history books.

Cristina: But they look like horses, though.

Jack: Well, they believed that they were about that. Like the first. The horn in the middle, it was freaking huge. It was 28 inches.

Cristina: What?

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: How is it holding that? It's not heavy.

Jack: It could be like bird. Bird bone type. Now known as very jumpy and skittish. That's also why it's elusive, because the moment it sees you, it disappears somewhere. Just runs or magically vanishes or whatever people want to say happened as a result. It's also very agile.

Cristina: This creature sounds cool, but.

Jack: Okay, well, here's the coolest part. Usually it's described as white, but there are also mentions of it being red and black.

Cristina: That does look awesome. Oh, my gosh. I want a red speeding, thin horn creature.

Jack: But it is a horse.

Cristina: It is a horse for sure.

Jack: Yes. It's a magical.

Cristina: For some reason, I was hoping they were foxes, I guess.

Jack: Not magical. They thought of it as a variant of a horse.

Cristina: Of a horse.

Jack: Now here's where it gets tricky. They thought that these things existed in India, and only the historians, good record keepers that went to India, came back saying that these were there, that these were there. Now they know what horses are, and they said it's a horse. But there are rhinoceroses in India, apparently.

Cristina: But that doesn't describe the creatures they described.

Jack: They think it's an. It's a horse. Yeah, the Greeks.

Cristina: But they didn't describe it as a bulky horse, did they?

Jack: No, they did not. It was just. It was definitely just an elegant horse with a horn.

Cristina: That's weird.

Jack: Yes. And they. They knew what a horse was.

Cristina: Was it a camel?

Jack: A camel. Interesting. That's some middle ground.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Between a horse and a cow, if you want, like a bulkier horse.

Cristina: Skittish, you said?

Jack: No, skittish. Gnome. Camels are like paste.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: The opposite of skittish.

Cristina: Okay, describe this creature again.

Jack: Okay. A single 28 inch horn in the center. Jumpy and skittish. Yeah, that's why it's also very elusive. It's agile for the same reason. And it has red, black or white fur. And it is a horse.

Cristina: It's gotta be some type of deer. Were they familiar with deers, though? Okay, if we thought of it, not like a deer from here, but like those other creatures that look very similar.

Jack: To deer or something like that.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Oh. I mean, a gazelle has two horns, but I know what you're thinking about those other ones.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: That one of them, I think, does in fact have a single horn. The problem is they're talking horse. The creature that I think you're picturing is significantly smaller, like tiny. It's like baby deer size.

Cristina: Then maybe they were decorating their horses.

Jack: Okay, interesting. Different angle. We know that. Even in which is. No, it couldn't be, because they would know, because Greek themselves used to strap things to their horses.

Cristina: That's true.

Jack: So they would know. They would know if it's. They know what a horse looks like.

Cristina: I don't understand. Because, like, if we look at the history, though, of the record of the actual place that they were visiting, what was it? India.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Do they have any unicorn stories?

Jack: The Indians?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Well, no, that. Not that. Well, we do know that dimensions from the Indus Valley civilization is in the Middle east and India's in the Middle East.

Cristina: But does India itself has any stories?

Jack: I don't.

Cristina: This is so natural. Why wouldn't they have the most stories if everyone's pointing there and saying they have unicorns? Wouldn't they have unicorn stories?

Jack: Well, okay, yes. This is what's weird about that. Right. Because of all the locations that do mention unicorns and everybody seems to see it around India, but no, India doesn't have any sort of consistent anything with unicorns. No mention of the unicorn everybody else is seeing there.

Cristina: So they have to have something there that people aren't familiar with. I feel like that's gotta be the solution. Like they've got animals that people just aren't familiar with and they're describing in very strange ways the unicorn.

Jack: They're describing it as a unicorn over. Yeah, it's always the same. Or maybe they're not using the word unicorn, but the description is what we all call the unicorn. Yeah, but that's the thing. We're. Now we're talking that these people are all speaking different languages.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: We're using the word unicorn. We're saying this very same description is what they're all saying they're seeing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And if it fits, you know, more than half of it, let's say. Okay, we're. They're talking about what we would call a unicorn.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And that's how we're defining this ultimately.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Because they're all coming back and saying, there's a one horned white thing over there that's just there and it's weird and impossible to catch and see. It's just there and then it's not there.

Cristina: Then it's not.

Jack: They're all mentioning the same thing.

Cristina: Interesting.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Now it has to be a real thing, not a real thing, but it's not. It's not a unicorn.

Jack: Well, for a brief period in the Middle Ages in Europe, popping up here and there, you know, sometimes in Spain, sometimes in England, sometimes in France, sometimes in Germany. Germany, you know, it would pop up everywhere. There would be depictions in bestiaries where they show animals of different sorts from regions, you know, real and mythological, sometimes mixed together. And they would show the unicorn. Many of them.

Cristina: Were they all visiting India?

Jack: Well, I'm not entirely sure, but I think they were used actually. I have no idea where. I just know they were showing animals that they have seen or recorded or heard of. Just beast series to gather information. And they were depicted in many beast series throughout all of Europe. Consistently. It wasn't one guy's thing. It was like all over the place. Anybody who had one, for whatever reason, seemed to have a unicorn in there.

Cristina: Weird.

Jack: Weird.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And here, though, split down the middle, it was thought of about as much of a goat as it was a horse.

Cristina: I don't understand. So sometimes it was depicted as a goat with a horn and sometimes it.

Jack: Was a horse with a horn. But sometimes it was the middle ground of whatever that would look like with a horn.

Cristina: Middle of a goat and a horse.

Jack: What?

Cristina: What does that mean? What?

Jack: But we start to get into where I immediately went. Huh? I tried to confirm this and you can find a crap ton of these online, really old ones. And you can see the pages and their descriptions and translations to English from what's being said. And without fail, 100% of the time from completely different books from across all of Europe, mentioned in different contexts, but landing at the same idea. Virgins can easily tame the unicorn. Now, I understand fully somebody heard about it, told somebody. But for the first couple of books that seem to have all been begun around the same period of time, there was no way that they simultaneously thought of the same thing at the same time, because it must have been like a five year gap and we're talking the Middle Ages. So it's like, whoa, dude. How?

Cristina: What? That they're all saying virgins contain.

Jack: Yes, they're all talking about unicorns and they're all saying. So they all talked to somebody who mentioned the unicorn in the same exact description and managed to publish a book that also had the same information about a virgin. They all spoke to the same guy.

Cristina: That happened to be a version. I don't know.

Jack: Unless there's a school for people who make bestiaries, and then they get taught the basics. And unicorn happens to be one of the basics.

Cristina: Yeah. He's like. Then that means, like, they all were experimenting, and we're like, okay, let's bring it. Like, how do they end up with the version? How many people did they test out? Like, okay, let's try to get that person to train the unicorn. What is it? Not train it, to tame it. Tame it. Yeah. And no one could do it except for this virgin horse trainer.

Jack: Weird, right? And no, it's not even a tamer. It's just because they're a virgin for whatever reason. Specifically female. A female version, for whatever reason. The unicorn is just submissive.

Cristina: It makes no sense, though.

Jack: Makes no sense. The other mention that I found that fits this same exact description is actually for dragons from the same Europeans in the Middle Ages, mainly from England, which mentioned virgins. Virgins can steal the treasure that a dragon is guarding because the dragon will. I guess it's not stealing. The dragon will just move out of its way. It's. It's collected for the virgin who will one day come and take it.

Cristina: Okay, are these people just fantasizing about versions and how amazing version being a version is?

Jack: I don't know. Because where I went. Again, is that although versions conceal the gold, they always just remained with the dragon.

Cristina: What? That's how those stories end.

Jack: Well, taming the unicorn means what, now? You're always with the unicorn? That's your ride or something? So now they've got proximity to a virgin in both instances. And in both instances, hard to reach and quite majestic. Overpowered. Some things.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: That are keeping a virgin nearby.

Cristina: For what?

Jack: Okay, now, if we look at how gods use virgins, right? Sacrifice for blood. Pure blood. The most fear, the most innocent.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Oh, yes. All the blood and fear I need in one strong dose.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Jehovah's old solution to the problem, as you know.

Cristina: Yes, yes. But why do they. These creatures need it?

Jack: They're not eating these versions, doing anything to these versions. Is this an emergency in case some s*** goes down? They would then, you know, keep the battery around in case I'm running out of electricity, and then, you know, take the battery when I need it. Is that the case is it a. As long as they're around me and they think I'm protecting them, they're gonna fear for themselves, but they're gonna fear for me. And they'll always be to the edge. I always make sure they get to the edge of fear. So I keep the battery close and keep her scared. So somebody's going to hurt her. Yeah, or I'm going to hurt her or something. With the unicorn, you're always in danger, but if you trust me, you'll always be safe. But you're always going to be that close to danger, but you're never going to be hurt, so you're always going to be scared. That adrenaline rush, the good fear.

Cristina: So makes no sense how the version is the key. Is it a woman version for the dragons as well?

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. And also, here's what's weird about this. In both instances, if you're. If you adjust to anything, you're no longer gonna be scared of it because it's your normal. Once something's your norm, it's not. That's the juggle that gods are making with fear. You have to keep it fresh. If it's not fresh, it's not entertaining. We get bored easy. You can't scare us with the same s***. You have to crash the towers, but you also have to threaten us with the bombs. You can't. Not just. You can't just keep hitting towers. We'll be like, it's normal for towers to get hit.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: You know, like, you can't do the same trick over and over and over and over. We'll get bored. Right now, people in Ukraine are like, whatever, dude. They're now beating Russia because they got over the fact that Russians had more power. Now they got so bored, they just walked into the streets and started disarming people. And they're winning. Like, just got bored and stopped being scared. Now. Now what are you going to do? You. You killed the fear in them. Now you're screwed. You can't win. They're not scared anymore.

Cristina: So what do these guys do with these versions?

Jack: I mean, what are they doing? I have no idea. I never found the solution for that. Why are. Well, at least in these stories, I didn't find a solution. I don't know why. I don't know what the point is. It didn't. There wasn't any further explanation. And I tried to find it. It was nothing. It's like you guys just all talked about the same crap in the same way, and it didn't make like you didn't link back to anything. Was this an idea you all had? There's a fascination with virgins.

Cristina: Yeah, for sure.

Jack: I guess always.

Cristina: Always.

Jack: I guess always.

Cristina: Always.

Jack: D***. That's what pedophilia is, isn't it? D***. Is that. I mean when you think about whatever they were throwing like a 10 year old at those things and it was like the grown men, don't get me wrong, the grown men were like 15 year olds who were gonna die like the next week of old age or some s***, you know. But they were still like significantly older than the like 10 year old.

Cristina: Yes. During the 10 year old. And a dragon or the unicorn and who knows how many other mythical creatures that they were like okay, there's a zombie. Let's throw the version and see what happens.

Jack: This is crazy, bro. Basically 1800s, follow me on the street. 1800s. God is angry at us. We're in a drought. Go to the elder, he's been around the longest. He's like 35 years old. Like 40. We're going to be generous and say he's 45 years old. The elder is like 45 years old. They die pretty young. There's nothing, there's no medicine. You just drop. And anytime you catch anything, you're dead.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Anybody who made it any age. Amazing.

Cristina: Got the code. You're dead.

Jack: Yes. You're screwed. So go to the elder. He's like 45 years old. The longest living person there is. Always the elder. He knows the most. Hey elder, we need to solve the rain problem. There's a drought and elder's like this 45 year old. Throw a virgin in the volcano. Now in his eyes, a virgin. The establishment of what a woman is. Hasn't happened yet, right? What year is it? Like 11. 1100s.

Cristina: You said 1800s.

Jack: No, that was exactly. Okay, that was exaggerated. Like the 1800, like the 1100s.

Cristina: Right way back there.

Jack: So we can throw her into the volcano.

Cristina: This 10 year old girl.

Jack: 10 year old girl. Some 45 year old guy is like let's throw her in the volcano because d***, this is the 1800s. This is hard. This is harsh. Can you imagine how savage these 1800s are? This is. This is like a week ago. This is scary, bro. This is too short ago.

Cristina: No, they would just set her on fire, dude.

Jack: Yeah. Oh, fair enough. It was still the 1700s, wasn't it?

Cristina: 17.

Jack: 1700S, yeah. Okay, that was a little further. It's man, it was still too close.

Cristina: Are sure the Salem witch trial things, that was 1700s. 1700s, I'm pretty sure. Late 17.

Jack: I mean, let's check that. Let's confirm.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Because late 1700s, I mean, I'm thinking like 1777, 1692-3. Yeah, that checks out. I feel like late 17 might have been too. Too soon still. Yeah. 16. Latest 1600s. Yeah, that checks out. That makes sense. Early 17.

Cristina: There's another one though, in the 1878. Does that count?

Jack: Witch trials.

Cristina: A witch trial.

Jack: Oh, a witch trial. I mean, yeah, as laws say, like way ancient in certain places and they take a while to catch up.

Cristina: Burning people.

Jack: Well now that is incredibly weird that they can only be tamed by a virgin. But what's even stranger is that throughout all of. I guess, I guess it's not as weird, but that it's a symbol for Christ. But it kind of makes sense considering that like Old Testament, God was totally into sacrifices.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: He loved virgins and children.

Cristina: Jesus was a virgin. Is he a virgin? I don't know.

Jack: Jesus wasn't a virgin.

Cristina: He wasn't?

Jack: No. But no, he was a symbol for Christ. And the unicorn doesn't have to be a virgin. What do you mean? If the unicorn is a symbol for the unicorn, isn't the virgin here?

Cristina: No, I'm saying is the Christ the virgin?

Jack: No, the unicorn symbolizes Christ. Christ must like virgins.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Which is weird because I'm sure he was banging Magdalene. Like she was far from like. Like, let's be real. Jesus had no game because the one chick he was down with or he was very sexually open minded because the one chick he was down with was known as like the. The block w****. Which is also a lie. Anyway, so whatever. That totally wasn't even mentioned in the Bible like that. That's an exaggeration from people.

Cristina: Mm. He was hanging out with dudes all day. What are you talking about?

Jack: Wear that packages for days. Sausage fests every day, all day, nothing more.

Cristina: He loved that braid.

Jack: Sus mega sus. Mega sus mega sus. Now this Christ unicorn. Nah, not Christ unicorn, but. So the unicorns horn is talked about in these mentions. These three big mentions. Talk about a couple of things that kind of pop up here and there in similar ways. So the unicorn is the source of the magic? The unicorn horn. The horn.

Cristina: They mention magic though.

Jack: Yes. They literally, in some manner, shape or form, mention that whatever makes them unique exists within. In their horn.

Cristina: Right.

Jack: Now I'm using the term magic, but that was only mentioned specifically for the people in the middle. The Middle ages that they mentioned that it was in Fact, a magical creature.

Cristina: Why did they give examples? Besides attracting virgins or whatever. Okay.

Jack: But the magic existed in its. In its horn. And it was also made of a material that they called alicorn.

Cristina: So out of something that it's rare.

Jack: It's like a. An elephant's tusk.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And if extracted, a magical tool could be crafted from it. Maybe a wand didn't describe this tool, anything. It's up to your imagination because it's magical. It's only an example of like a wand.

Cristina: But that's your example or their example.

Jack: That's they know anything you can think of. They mention things like wands, but it's like anything you can think of. And any purpose tool. Now you have a magic version of it.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: It could also be used for medicine, said to be able to heal anything. And it could be used to create potions.

Cristina: So much of witchy stuff.

Jack: Yes. And when. Now, interesting, interesting point here. With these potions, specifically an alicorn potion, the drinker of the potion would themselves get powers or abilities.

Cristina: What are these? Do they have examples of these powers or abilities? I have to know. What is this magic? They're just saying magic here and there. What?

Jack: Enter the merchant.

Jack: There was a merchant claiming he had obtained some unicorn powder. That is ground alicorn.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And he was reported seeing between the years of 1739 and 1741.

Cristina: Throughout those years, yes. Okay.

Jack: And in the countries of Albania, Bulgaria and Greece.

Cristina: Are those close to each other? Okay.

Jack: Yes, they are.

Cristina: Now what makes this strange?

Jack: Gonna get there.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Shop owner Atlas Demos in Greece noted that this nameless merchant with a hood and a glass bottle offered unicorn powder, bought a bowl shortly after offering the powder and left. Interesting guy, pops up, just offers powder, offers unicorn powder. Hooded dude shows up, offers thing, dips. Second guy, Toshkos Toyanova of Bulgaria, he took note of a hooded merchant with a Greek accent. Now it got weird.

Cristina: Why?

Jack: Because it's a Greek guy with a Greek accent. Was a very specific node the Bulgarian mentioned. He said that a hooded merchant with a Greek accent. And the Greeks already believe that the unicorn is real.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And this guy shows up with a Greek accent and claims to have unicorn. Unicorn powder.

Jack: Weird. But. And he offered him unicorn powder at the town square. He did not buy. It was just offered to him. Finally, Noel Thanasi, the Albanian ship captain.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Who kept extensive notes of what happened on the ship was one of his ways to entertain himself. So he had many, many, many, many records. And because he was a ship captain, he Was usually on a ship with people for hours, a long time. So he got time to see things.

Cristina: So he saw this merchant.

Jack: The Albanian ship captain wrote in his log about a hooded merchant on board.

Cristina: Also with a Greek accent.

Jack: Actually, that's the first thing. Yeah. Who also has a Greek accent. So the merchant, Greek accent. Hood offers unicorn powder.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: On the cruise, on the ship on the right.

Cristina: Wherever they're going, how many people buy it?

Jack: Claims an ill woman on board. This is him on his notes.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: He claims an ill woman on board the ship drank tea with a bit of the powder sprinkled. Within moments, the woman was, well, okay. This is a captain who sees. He's an experienced guy. He's kept notes. He has many notes. He's been at this for a while. This guy must be old and he's seen all kinds of manners. This is the first time that he's like, what the h***? On his own boat, this guy shows up.

Cristina: The only thing that happens on the.

Jack: Boat, this guy shows up. And out of nowhere he gives this woman a thing. And for the first time in his life, he sees something. He's seen so many strangers come through. It's a shame ship. He's moving people back and forth. All kinds of weird wanderers come through. This is the first time he's like, holy crap, what the h*** am I looking at? The woman gets a tea doom and instantaneously gets better. This guy's like, what? It's like, are you serious? And so he makes a note of this guy. What's up with the Greek merchant? What? What's this? Can't be real, right? He's kidding me. Other ship passengers, shortly after buy and consume the powder a series of different ways. They throw it in their drinks, they throw it in their meals, and they sort of just take part thanking the guy and for several days, just kind of hanging out with the merchant or whatever. The merchant seems real cryptic, real like he's detached according to this guy's. Because he's writing paragraphs and s***, sometimes knowing to go through it. But he's just. He's also rambling a lot of crap that's like unrelated. But he always circles back to how interesting this merchant was. Okay, now, other than the lady for a while, it all seems pretty normal. And he's like, okay, there must have.

Cristina: Been a trick he did there until something.

Jack: With exception for a man. Now, this man claims to had a walking stick his entire life, and he drank the powder and finished the rest of the trip without the walking stick. The man it's important to say that the man only said he showed up with a walking stick. He didn't say he drank the powder. Very important. This is where these notes fall apart. He took note of the man with the walking stick. Yes, that's the right way this goes. He took note of the man with the walking stick. He thinks the man drank the powder because the man finished without the walking stick. But that's the only person he doesn't know whether or not he drank the powder.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Now, all the people he knows for a fact drank the powder, had no reaction. But the man with the walking stick, who he doesn't know drank the powder, he's assuming drank the powder only because.

Cristina: Of the first lady that got better.

Jack: Because the first lady that got better. His assumption is it's only working on people with severe problems and that maybe this does in fact work.

Cristina: But there's no proof of that.

Jack: But there's no proof of that.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: It's just mentioned in his notes. Now, it's the same guy. We know the guy is real. The guy popped up in different places. It's the same Greek merchant.

Cristina: But also, how's he getting around? Did he do anything weird like he sold the guy the thing, but that was the end of that story.

Jack: Doesn't even say he bought it.

Cristina: Oh, I thought he bought it. No, it was just the second one didn't buy it. But the first one bought it.

Jack: No, he offered the powder and left.

Cristina: Oh, okay. Okay. That's weird.

Jack: I mean, notes weren't great back then. We're talking, like, shredded mentions of something that's like a tiny blurb. Essential. Just somebody was scribbling on a thing.

Cristina: Okay, so he's a traveling salesman.

Jack: What's weird about this is how close together these years are and how far he got as well.

Cristina: How close are those years?

Jack: We're talking 1739 to 1741. That's three years apart. And he traveled three countries quite extensively, quite far apart.

Cristina: You don't think it takes three years? Maybe on a horse or something? Like, he's not walking. I mean, he's on a boat in one of the stories.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: Both are pretty fans. Guessing.

Jack: It depends, right? How long could he be? He is on the move. One of those is literally on the move.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Man, I wonder where the ship was headed. Those. I didn't. I did not even bother looking at that. It might have been from one place to the other. These might be way closer connected than we thought. It might have been like he left one of these places. Went to the other.

Cristina: Yeah. Went to the boat and then went to wherever. Well, we don't know if his thing was doing anything.

Jack: We don't know if his thing was doing anything. There's just circumstantial evidence.

Cristina: Yeah. Interesting. This is the only guy recorded selling this powder.

Jack: The only incredibly existing individual. I thought it was very strange that there was a real person who potentially healed people with something he was claiming was unicorn powder and came from a country where they thought unicorns were real to begin with. That they saw in a country that themselves didn't know about unicorns or care about unicorns, but had a rhinoceros that could be described as unicorn. And there's a close enough description.

Cristina: And people do use rhino's horn, right? Like, they do use that like medicine. So, like. Yeah, so it could be the same thing.

Jack: Except the people who think unicorns are real also know what a horse is and think a unicorn is a variant of a horse.

Cristina: But do they know what rhinos are?

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Positive.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: The Greeks.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Because some of the bestiaries are Greek and they have.

Cristina: They have rhinos.

Jack: They have rhinos and they have unicorns.

Cristina: Okay. I don't know. Because it doesn't make sense. Doesn't make sense. Because their solution was versions contain them. Like, that makes me feel like, well.

Jack: This is where I think the unicorn is doing something similar to what Santa is doing. They're keeping fear as the fuel and they're keeping the battery nearby. So they only need one. They're not trying to be super mega God powered. Usually it's just to be elusive and it could be used for other things when they're not being elusive. But it seems like they're sort of managing what they apply it to. They're not crazy over. Probably they could do all the things at the same time. They still be caught, they can still be killed. So they're doing a small version of it, but somehow they're not. They're not killing, they're not drinking the blood or something.

Cristina: There's no stories of dangerous unicorns doing crazy things.

Jack: Not that I'm aware of, but wow. Definitely something to look into. Ultimately, I think they are somehow tapping into the same power that Santa Claus has figured out. That's my theory. Because they're not, as far as we know, drinking the blood of these virgins, but they're being consistently reported as being tamed by a virgin or keeping a virgin nearby or something related to not being dangerous and being easily seen by and being ridden by virgin.

Cristina: Very strange.

Jack: Now I'm thinking virgin, because innocence. Innocence leads to more fear because lack of experience is usually where the innocence lies.

Cristina: But I still want to know where the magic is, because I still haven't heard anything magical.

Jack: Magical examples of a unicorn. The only. The closest thing to an example of unicorn magic is the potentiality of unicorn flying. But any description of a unicorn flying felt more like they were describing a unicorn that was hopping and sustaining a hop for a long time. So a hovering unicorn at most.

Cristina: That's very strange. Okay.

Jack: Like, it's not going upwards. It's like hopping off a cliff, then making it to the other side.

Cristina: Whoa.

Jack: Now, the size of the cliff could be questionable. Is he's like, oh, I couldn't jump that as a person, but I've seen other horses do it. Or is this horse just so scared it's willing to take the shot?

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And, like, makes it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it doesn't seem like there's no credibility there. Like, if he. If they'd mentioned the distance from one cliff to the other, then we.

Cristina: Maybe you can see some magic.

Jack: Exactly. Like, is there a river in between both of them? And this horse hopped off one side and just glides to the other. Clean.

Cristina: Horse goat thing.

Jack: Yeah, horse goat thing. Okay. There is an interesting detail here that does come through the goat side of things.

Cristina: What's that?

Jack: And hold on. This was a long, long time ago. There was an Indian guy who did talk about a magical creek goat.

Cristina: No, he didn't.

Jack: But he talked about it in knowledge of the constellations. So it's a person who was studying the constellations and was talking about a Greek goat. So, like, those lines cross really hard. And that also felt like useless information because he made no mention of a horse or a unicorn. But it is just a goat.

Cristina: It's just a goat.

Jack: It's just a goat. It seems. It doesn't even seem like just a goat. It's a magical goat. And he was a person who was learning the constellations, learning astrology, particularly. He was learning astrology, and he mentions a goat in his writing. He mentions the magical Greek goat, but one. It's not the Indian unicorn goat. It's just the Greek magical magic goat. And he's a person who studies astrology. I'm sure that's a mention of his studies.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Being written back in the 1700s.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: So that didn't feel relevant. But if you wanted something about a magical goat. There you go.

Cristina: That doesn't help.

Jack: The only note there that makes sense is that the Greeks see the Unicorn as a horse down there. And then some Indians said there was a magic goat in Greece. That's the only like the two dots that I was like, oh, interesting. But then I was like, this is useless.

Cristina: This is.

Jack: This is a coincidence more than anything.

Cristina: Yeah, yeah. I see nothing magical unless attracting versions.

Jack: Is magical, which sounds just like a dude fantasy.

Cristina: Exactly. Yeah. I guess it's magical to men.

Jack: It's magical to men.

Cristina: Yeah. All right. I guess. I guess that's it.

Jack: Yeah, that's. That's what we got on unicorn and I. It's kind of useful to some degree because that means there's a potentiality. There are unicorns. And unicorn doesn't seem particularly magic magical, which tells me that it's a really grounded kind of thing. It's probably really using very little amounts of magic to either sustain its life for really long or maybe do this dumb hover thing.

Cristina: So you think it is an actual creature though, and not just a real animal being confused or something else?

Jack: Well, the possibility is that it's a creature that is on adrenochrome, but it's not doing anything. So that's what you can. We can investigate that and write that off at some point. There's just a creature that isn't on adrenochrome and is also not magic. It's just an elusive normal horse type thing or a rhino type thing or a goat type thing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And we can write that off if we find out which one it kind of really is, which seems to lean towards horse. Some weird kind of deformed horse or a species of horse that lives in mountains or somewhere that probably has a mist everywhere and looks majestic and people are like, wow, magic. Fun fact. Not here in the notes, but it is a detail that did pop up. You're usually seeing a unicorn standing, looking north when they're motionless. This is the opposite of a dog who poops south. So I guess the dog is also looking north technically.

Cristina: Okay, wait, say that again about the unicorn.

Jack: A unicorn is usually when they're stationary, they're usually aiming north. You can reliably see a unicorn aiming north. So wherever the unicorns is pointing when they stopped is usually north. Which means. That doesn't make any sense. That's one of those things that people just say because like the unicorn has to stop looking somewhere else at some point. It can't always. Like, it's always has to be.

Cristina: It's 100% looking north.

Jack: And yeah, like it has to always be in motion to look anywhere else. What if it's something. What if there's a wall behind it and whatever it needs to eat is against the wall? It can't, because it could only look away from the wall when it's there.

Cristina: That makes it sound sort of magical.

Jack: That makes it look like it lives h***.

Cristina: It lives h***. Yeah. It's in a magical magnet. Yeah.

Jack: That's crazy. So that sounds like bull crap to me.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: But anyways, I think we got some information to look into, and we have some details about the unicorn that I think are fascinating.

Cristina: It's potentially that we might have to.

Jack: Research more on, and we might have to tackle this creature. We might have to catch it, because if we could figure out what they're doing, then we can figure out enough power. Then go get Santa. First, we need a version to attract the unicorn.

Cristina: Yes. I get. Wait, are we versions because we're clones? I'm not really sure. But you have a wife, so I'm assuming. Wait, is this version of you married? I don't know.

Jack: This version of me has a.

Cristina: A.

Jack: What was it? A baby with a Bigfoot.

Cristina: Oh, my. Wait.

Jack: Yeah. I got raped by Bigfoot and we had a baby.

Cristina: Oh, yes. That happened.

Jack: That happened. I have a son.

Cristina: Oh, yeah.

Jack: And the other version of me was married to the cockroach, which also had a child. So there's a. It's the same DNA. So in theory, my DNA. Although I didn't make that baby with that disgusting roach.

Cristina: Are you raising that baby?

Jack: I'm not raising that baby.

Cristina: Are you raising this baby? No.

Jack: No, I'm not raising either.

Cristina: Okay. Okay. So you're definitely not a virgin?

Jack: I'm definitely not a virgin. I can't be the honey.

Cristina: Oh, man.

Jack: Can you be the honey?

Cristina: I guess I could be.

Jack: Yeah. We gotta throw you at the. In the volcano, I guess, to attract the unicorn. I don't know how to attract. We'll figure out how to attract the unicorn.

Cristina: I think we should throw me in.

Jack: A volcano just in case. Maybe it's a. Hey, we could write that one off, you know?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: I mean, we can make more of us.

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: It is what it is.

Cristina: We'll do different things.

Jack: That's fair. Like where you're going with this.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Anyways, so if you guys want to find out more where this goes, I suppose, and about other creatures of which we have extensively gone through, you can find. You can contact us, you can message us on our socials, at Twitter, on Instagram, on TikTok, usconvopod.

Cristina: Remember to subscribe, rate, and review the show.

Jack: Yes. And let someone who might like this show know about it.

Cristina: This has been the Rambling podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Bye. And then they're like.

Jack: It would be crazy. I don't know. YouTube's full of. I don't believe it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Memers. You know memers be doing memeing.

Cristina: Yes. But it'd be so awesome if that was true. It's hilarious. I don't think I'd rewatch the whole show like that, but, yeah, I would. Just, like, Just curiosity.

Jack: Like old Resident Evil dubs.

Cristina: Yeah. But there's no way, because people love the show, so I can't imagine that they were watching it like that.

Jack: The content is probably better than the conversation and dialogue.

Cristina: Yeah. Actually, what's happening is really interesting. Just the first episode is packed with everything.

Jack: Yeah. Yeah. It's f****** awesome.

Cristina: Yep. Everybody watching that so late. The next thing we need to watch that we are so late to is the Tiger King.

Jack: Yeah. Holy s***. I haven't seen that yet. You're right.

Cristina: Yeah. So, yeah, we're behind. Good morning. Good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by greatthoughts.in fox art by 0lupo and logo by Seth McAllister with social media managed by Amber Black.

Rambling 169: Real Magic

Is magic real? What exactly is magic? Who has the ability to use magic effectively? The duo crack open the case of magic in an attempt to once and for all determine which things are and which things aren’t. What they come across while investigating is highly unexpected and changes what they understand about how our universe works forever!

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed:

  • Baba Yaga
  • Witches
  • Wizards
  • Magic
  • Slide of Hand
  • Hypnosis
  • Illusionists
  • Alchemists
  • Jehovah of Light
  • Jehovah of Dark
  • Shadow Realm
  • Lucifer

Our Links:

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod

Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod

Instagram -https://instagram.com/justconvopod


+Transcript

Cristina: This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean? Welcome to the Rambling Podcast, the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas in childish ways. I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And I'm Jack.

Cristina: And if you haven't yet, remember to hit that subscribe button to get notified the second new episode episodes are released.

Jack: And also, this show is most enjoyable with a listening partner. So get ready. Get ready to have an epic listening session. I was about to that up and say conversation, but, like, you're not. You're not gonna talk with us. They're not talking with us. I was about to say they're listening to a conversation. They're gonna have a listening session. Yeah, we're having a con. They're not gonna have an epic con. I mean, you can.

Cristina: They can.

Jack: You can talk to. I guess you can talk to whatever. Talk to your phone, go to the of places, put this podcast and start screaming at your phone with your opposing opinions and topics on topics. Your opinions on topics you discuss.

Cristina: Yes, you should do that.

Jack: Yeah. Invite randoms. Create, like, a circle where you're screaming and you yelling at your phone. Shut the f*** up. And that other person agrees with one of us and you disagree with us. And now you start hitting some f****** other random person over some s*** that's totally irrational because you're probably in universe 3 anyways, and none of this really affects your life. But you're so invested in the episode.

Cristina: What do you think people will think of them, though?

Jack: Well, everybody who's already invested listening is sucked in because we're hypnotic. Between your soothing tones and my manic extremism.

Cristina: But the people watching.

Jack: Who's watching them?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Oh, I don't know. The people watching them are like, wow, this must be really important. They probably think it's happening in universe three, you know, the way things happen.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: This is all part of whatever thing we don't know about because, you know, they don't know about s***. Like, he's theorizing this, and they're theorizing theories, and then they come in with their theories, and everybody's just a ball of theories beating the s*** out of each other.

Cristina: Yes. Although this show's not about theories.

Jack: Well, no, we're talking about the truth they're over there talking about. Because everything in this universe is real. Everything that's real over here is just like a hypothetical maybe over there.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: As things go.

Cristina: Yes. Like Baba Yaga.

Jack: Like Baba Yaga.

Cristina: Or his name.

Jack: It's a him.

Cristina: Well, in just one version. The newest one with Keanu Reeves.

Jack: Oh.

Cristina: Oh, that's my favorite.

Jack: Baba Yaga, the Disney whatever. But you know what? Yeah, I guess it's magical how he swoops in and just. Murder. Murders.

Cristina: I just wonder where's his magical house with the chicken legs?

Jack: The. The guy burned it down.

Cristina: The guy burned it that didn't have chicken legs. Maybe he gets it in the next house. Oh, he has to replace it.

Jack: This is a Baba Yaga origin story.

Cristina: Yes. Even though he's been living like Baba Yaga for a long time, like, he's retired.

Jack: That's how far in the other end. But Baba Yaga isn't like, they called him Baba Yaga. Now we're going to see how he becomes an ethereal witchy thing.

Cristina: Yes. Yes. What if that's what's next? Yeah.

Jack: Now, my question about something like Baba Yaga is like, so Baba Yaga is magic, but is. Is it a witch? Is it a creature of magic? Somebody who can use magic? And if somebody who can use magic. Because we. We have a lot of weird things, right?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: We have this second realm, the shadow realm. And in the shadow realm, there are beings that are born over there and creatures of that end. And my idea is, like, science gets creatures over there, and creatures over there don't have magic. They have abilities that are natural to that world. It's not magical when they're over here. Like a G. Ghost isn't magic, or a werewolf isn't magic. Actually, a lot of the time it's science. It's genetics that we're talking about. Because a lot of this stuff uses the powers that come from adrenochrome, or the creatures that manifest on this end are using fear, which isn't magic. It's some sort of fuel for creatures of the other side. But like, Baba Yaga is a. If I'm not confused, it's a type of. Well, what about. To my understanding, it's some sort of witch.

Cristina: She is a witch.

Jack: Okay. But there are other witches as well.

Cristina: There are other Baba Yagas sometimes.

Jack: Oh, that's interesting.

Cristina: Sometimes she has sisters named Baba Yaga.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: So there's more than one of her. And sometimes she has a daughter called Baba Yaga. I don't know her daughter's name. I don't remember her name. It could be Baba Yaga Yu Junior. But, yeah, it seems like she is also. I don't know where her magic come from or if it is magic or maybe it's adrenochrome. Because I know she eats people.

Jack: I don't know why she would need to eat people. She's. It's. She's just a cannibal.

Cristina: Actually, you don't. You never see her. I don't know if she's eaten people. The pe. The stories that I've read. She tries to throw people into her oven, but it doesn't happen. So what if she's just doing it for the fear that she would get from them, thinking, oh, my gosh, I'm gonna be eaten alive.

Jack: But what does a witch need fear for?

Cristina: For what she thinks is magic, but it's actually the power of adrenochrome.

Jack: But no, but wait. Unless she's actually eating them. She only gets the adrenochrome if she eats them. If she's scaring them, she's not getting anything. She's not from the Shadow realm.

Cristina: But she might be eating them too. I don't know. It seems like fear or blood is good.

Jack: But how is a mortal of Earth using fear? There's zero examples of that working out. Everything we've gotten so far suggests that it's entirely something that creatures from the shadow realm, including, as we recently discovered.

Cristina: Jehovah of Dark and Santa Claus. What is he, do we say?

Jack: Interest. Interesting point. All the gods seem to somehow use fear. Yeah, but are we to say the gods were mortal?

Cristina: Yes. Yes, I think so.

Jack: Interesting. So not only creatures of the shadow realm, but when you cross a certain threshold of natural a bit. So people. Wow. No, so you're totally right. It's. It hasn't just been creatures from the shadow Realm. No, because we also know that whatever the big baddest of gods is, was probably human. Well, he leveled up from something lower.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Through fear.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And occasionally adrenal chrome, when that was the only result. And at these giant colossal levels, you don't become corrupt if you don't have the. But then you always got a steady stream of at least fear happening, so you can never really go feral. Unless that's what happened to God of Dark. But God of Dark came from the shadow realms. It was never necessarily our understanding.

Cristina: We don't know where he came from. We're assuming he came from the Shadow Realm.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: So I don't know where it starts. Does it start there? Does it start here?

Jack: Well, that God starts over there. Well, we don't know where began is the people of Atlantis.

Cristina: Oh, yeah.

Jack: That's what we don't know the origin to. Yeah, but we Nailed down where Jehovah of Dark comes from. But what you're. What you're proposing here is actually really rational that. Because we have proof of some gods that have upgraded through these means, including St. Nicholas, who somehow became an overpowered deity of sorts.

Cristina: Yes, and St. Patrick.

Jack: And St. Patrick. But St. Patrick doesn't use fear.

Jack: We know Santa Claus does that. He upgraded from pure mortal to seemingly one of the most overpowered gods that have ever existed. While we still call most other gods, including. Including Jehovah of Light and Jehovah of Dark. Demigods.

Cristina: Yes, we.

Jack: We kind of. It's hard to say that Santa Claus falls under that he might be like an actual omniscient God.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But he's doing it off of fear, and he began as a mortal, so. Good. Good argument.

Cristina: Yes. It's only feared as long as. So far, there's no blood involved.

Jack: As far as we know.

Cristina: As far as we know.

Jack: So Baba Yaga, you're saying, is similar to this? That they're using fear and maybe Adrenoch.

Cristina: Adrenocar. Yes. Yes, she is. And there's a male version of her, too. Although she sometimes is good, sometimes is bad, but in her story, she's not always an evil witch. Sometimes she's a helpful witch.

Jack: So there's like an actual good, but.

Cristina: It could be multiple different Baba Yagas. So it doesn't matter. Like, there could be, like. I think of it like wizards from Harry Potter. There's a bunch of witches learning the same thing from the school. So they're all similar. They all know everything.

Jack: Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. What does the. The term Baba Yaga mean?

Cristina: The term.

Jack: Like, what are we talking about when we say Baba Yaga? Because, okay, there's some good, there's some bad. So then we're misunderstanding what it is. It's not a name because there's good and bad and there's different ones. It's some sort of title. What does that title mean?

Cristina: I don't remember. I think it has to do with how she looks. I think it's describing how she looks, but I can't remember what language in German. Slavic. What? Slavic. It's like, in the area. Russian. Russia. Whatever that area.

Jack: Wait, Baba Yaga is a Russian witch?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Do you know, it's weird that I never thought about this, but, like, okay, where are most witches from?

Cristina: Where are most witches from?

Jack: Yeah. Like, okay, the Salem Witch Trials. That's in Salem.

Cristina: In America.

Jack: Salem is not a place. Yeah, Salem is in America?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Where the f*** is Salem?

Cristina: In Massachusetts.

Jack: Interesting. So most witches are American?

Cristina: No, they're all over the world.

Jack: No, they're obviously. I said most, not all, almost most.

Cristina: I don't know. America did have a lot.

Jack: A lot. Somehow witches are an American thing.

Cristina: No, there, there. There's a lot of places.

Jack: No, I get that. I get that. There's also pizza from everywhere. But like, even if literally Italy made.

Cristina: It there before America, there was a witch problem in Europe. They had the mass hysteria over witches first.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: It started over there. It came over here after that was done.

Jack: So witches are European.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Now where specifically in Europe did they come from? And also, like, is Europe the origin of witches? Because I know voodoo priestess are a version of w. Witches.

Cristina: Oh, I'm not sure which one came first.

Jack: I think that might predate the European witches because voodoo priestess we're talking are like island, African islands and like Bahama area and like all these native islands and African regions. So the question then is, do voodoo priestess predate the word witch? And is the word witch just the European word for voodoo priestess? And it just so happens to be that Europeans are light skinned and voodoo priestess tend to be dark skinned. But the concept is the same. We grab a couple of these things, do a couple of those things, and magic, poof, something happens. And I wanted it to.

Cristina: Yeah, I think. Yeah. The first one that you said of voodoo priestess came first.

Jack: Like it might. It's migration.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: And then Europe went crazy over it because I think in most of the world it wasn't an evil thing. There are bad witches and good witches.

Jack: Yes, that's usually the case. The majority of witches are good. It's just things you do and you control certain weird elements of nature through what we would call magic. And then there's the ones who are like, I'll do whatever the f*** I want with it for my own personal gain.

Cristina: Yes. But the stuff that was happening in Europe and America was nothing related to actual witches as far as we can tell. There was probably just people going crazy, like with the werewolves, like just hunting people down and saying they're a witch to kill them. Why? I don't know.

Jack: But interesting. Well, we found out that most of the stories of werewolves were just people mischaracterizing things.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But then we also found out that the idea of a werewolf is unrelated to the actual werewolf. Those are two different things. You can give a wolf adrenochrome. Well, I guess. No, that's different. You can give a wolf adrenochrome and you end up with a wet judge. No. After it dies. What the f*** do we get if we know that is a werewolf? It's like a weird f******. Because it's not a man. Necessarily.

Cristina: Man.

Jack: Which the problem is you give a wolf adrenochrome and you get like, a f****** weird freak of nature. Werewolf.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: That thighs. It becomes a wet judge.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And no actually win dingo. And if it can't continue to get.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Fear or blood. No, we're wrong somewhere in here.

Cristina: No, I think that because.

Jack: What's the feral version of the werewolf? Oh, no. There's a Lycan and a werewolf. So the werewolf. The werewolf is the bad one, I think. And then the Lycan is the bad one. Or the werewolf is the one with control. Got it. Werewolf is control. Feral is a Lycan. Regardless of what happens, you become a Wendigo. And if you can't get fear, then you become a wetchudge. Great. But also, people saw what they thought was people going through the same thing, and like, well, there's a native in there. It's a man wolf.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And werewolf. It was just a dude in tribal.

Cristina: Yeah. He had that furry pelt. And then they came up with the stories. He turns into a wolf with that pelt.

Jack: Exactly. Because there are actual weird freak of nature where. I mean, werewolves that aren't human in those woods.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And it's just because we know that during these battles, wolves come out of nowhere and start licking the adrenal crumbs. Whole thing. And poking out. You got a f****** monster.

Cristina: Yeah. I wonder. What. How the whole witch thing came. I know there's, like, lines in the Bible that say, hey, don't talk to witches.

Jack: Don't be witchy.

Cristina: Don't be witchy.

Jack: But then. Yeah. Because what you're talking about makes perfect sense. Right. So if we apply the logic that in most narratives there is the real case and the fake case and that the lines get blurred somewhere in the middle.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Then, yes, there are real witches. But a real witch must turn into something. If there could, anything that consumes adrenochrome changes.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So there must be witches that are doing fake magic, witches that are doing real magic that does not, in any case, involve blood. Blood or fear.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And then some other s*** that's scaring people and then f****** eating them.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So that would say that this is what we mean when we say Baba Yaga.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: There's witches. Or there's posers. Witches. And Baba Yagas and Baba Yagas. Baba Yagas are adrenochrome and. Or fear witches. And then there's magic witches, which are talking dark and light magic. So we don't really know what that is, do we?

Cristina: Dark and light magic, like magic versus.

Jack: What Baba Yaga is doing. Is there a. Do we understand what real magic is? Enough. Because we even thought that the cat people were using real magic. It's just technology.

Cristina: Real magic is like prayers that you tell your God, our gods, or whatever. I don't know. I don't know the difference between a witch and a priest. I don't know. They're doing the same thing. They got a God, they got a book, they got prayers.

Jack: Interesting. Interesting.

Cristina: Whatever you want to call it.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

Cristina: So then they both have altars, they have candles. I'm pretty sure they both have candles.

Jack: Yes. It's a form of meditation, except one.

Cristina: Is labeled evil by the other.

Jack: Yes. In both cases, they label each other evil.

Cristina: Oh, okay. Yes. But it's pretty simple stuff. There's nothing really scary about witches. Like, I even.

Jack: Now my question is, is Baba Yaga a real witch that then devolves into using or evolves, depending how you want to look at it, into using fear and blood. So it's witch plus this add. It's a super witch.

Cristina: It's a super witch.

Jack: Yes. Baba Yaga is a super witch. It's a witch plus blood and fear.

Cristina: I think so. Because the type of magic it's doing is not like the real witches. It's more supernatural. It's more crazier. Like, things you do, you can't imagine really happening is happening.

Jack: Interesting. Like what?

Cristina: Like one time, she gave a girl a candle. A skull candle. No. Was it. No, it wasn't candle. It was a lantern. Whatever. And when the girl. Then she let the girl go home because she put her through a whole bunch of tests because her family wanted her dead. It was her mom and her stepsister. They're like, we hate you. Go away. Gave her to Baba Yaga to hopefully eat. She didn't eat her. She gave her test. She passed the test. She gave her this lantern, and then she said, when you go home, it'll grant you wishes. But when she went home, the lantern just set her house on fire, and her family died. And I'm sure the prince came and saved her. So it's okay?

Jack: Yes, okay. It's all fine.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It turned out. Happy ending.

Cristina: Yeah. It's a happy ending.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Baba Yang has saved the day with murder.

Jack: With murder, yeah. Interesting, interesting.

Cristina: But I guess the candle, the lantern is magical. Like, that doesn't normally happen.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Doesn't teleport you back home. You know, real ones. But that's a different type of power.

Jack: Yeah, it's okay. It's fascinating because when we're talking about other kinds of magic, right, we're talking about prayer, we're talking about meditation, we're talking about whatever the case might be, the idea is if you put forward enough mental energy, you either comprehend the thing and warp your personal perspective on it, thus altering your reality, or somehow you're actively affecting the universe with this. The think of a person who creates a ritual to get somebody to fall in love with them.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Okay. Now, either you affected somebody else's psychology through this ritual, or through this ritual, you change how you think about it. And when that person next sees you, there's something different that's now attractive to them, but the change is in you. And they see it, and suddenly they're like, oh, you know, I'm actually into this. And you think you affected them, but you just affected you.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: The line between that is impossible to define.

Cristina: It is. It is that. That's a different one. And like, sometimes they also use clothing, the colors and makeup and stuff to be more attractive. Like, that might be helping you too. Yes.

Jack: Then the question is, Baba Yaga gives a person this lantern, they take the lantern home, and the lantern sets the house on fire. Now, Baba Yaga gave me the lantern, the lantern set the house on fire. Or are you under the impression that something's gonna happen, and then the same way you are sort of the reason the lantern fell, and you just warp the perspective on how that happened to say, well, the witch did it.

Cristina: Oh, so she didn't do it.

Jack: So maybe there's nothing supernatural about it. Maybe there's just a perspective warp. Well, I knew something was gonna happen, and then, you know, I tripped and knocked it down. But it's the witch's fault. They knew this would happen. Oh, now my family's dead. But the witch made it happen, which made it happen. But really the witch changed the perspective in your mind with what they understand how to do. They did it to themselves growing up. And as a young 20 something year old, doing a bunch of, quote, magic, unquote. Yes, Consistently warping their own perspective. Eventually they know, they noticed I'm not really affecting the outside. I'm affecting my inside, and that's allowing me to see it different. And now they know how to do it to other people. Just like Charles Manson or Darren Brown. Your using Perspective to brainwash the person who can't walk. And they're in a wheelchair now. They can get off of the wheelchair. Did you perform a miracle? Was it magic? Or did you brainwash them?

Cristina: Did you brainwash them?

Jack: You brainwash them? They did the thing, yes. The lantern falls, the house sets on fire. The witch did it.

Jack: Brainwashed.

Cristina: Well, what about when items and stories become other items? Like, that's magic then, right?

Jack: I don't know. How far can you do brainwashing? Can you make somebody cluck like a chicken? Can you make somebody see the knife in your hand be a gun?

Cristina: I don't know if you can do that. Oh, maybe. Yes. Right?

Jack: 100% brainwashing, like hypnosis is hypnosis. You can do self hypnosis to do magic. That's what meditation is. It's self hypnosis, Right?

Cristina: Yeah. What?

Jack: Yeah. So the question is, is real magic magic? And you take it far enough. Are you hypnotizing people, calling it magic and then putting them in a state where they are so scared.

Cristina: Yeah. That they believe it?

Jack: No. That they produce adrenaline and then you f****** kill them. You can take it. And you did it so easily because you already brainwashed them. You didn't need to actually do anything other than I hypnotize you. You feel crazy fear now. I kill you. Drink your blood. I got what I needed.

Cristina: That's weird. What? But one of the stories is with Baba's daughter, and she's the one that uses magic to get away from Baba.

Jack: Magic?

Cristina: How? By throwing things like a comb and then it turns into a mountain or what else? A brush that turns into a forest and a towel that turns into a lake. Which sounds like kind of ridiculous things. Is she hypnotizing Baba Yaga?

Jack: I think, yeah, maybe. This is a battle of hypnosis. It's two mentalists trying to warp it. Must look crazy. Not to the outside world. Anybody's watching them. He's just throwing s*** at normal, basic stupid s***. And this is one person chasing the other. But the experience those two individuals are having is f****** crazy. They're actively warping each other's point of view consistently. Maybe even the surrounding. Imagine the. The battle. Spoiler alert for the latest Spider man movie. Spider man. No Way Home. But when Spider man is fighting Dr. Strange and s*** is just warping and the city is caving in on itself and s*** is weird.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: They could just be doing that to each other, but nothing is really happening. It's all Just mind f******. Hard hypnosis, mind f****** to one another.

Cristina: That's Dr. Strange. Mind f******. Spider man, though.

Jack: Yes, he's the one using magic, but it's really happening.

Cristina: The city's not going crazy or anything. That's just in his magic. Magic.

Jack: Oh, is Darren Brown a magician or is Darren Brown a hypnotist? He's a hypnotist, but he says what he's doing is a trick. It's a magic trick. But he also says, I'm hypnotizing you. He interchangeably uses the terminology because he gets it. And probably at the beginning when he was watching people do things that look like real magic, it's like, what the f*** is happening? And a lot of magic is what? It's sleight of hand. It's. I gotta convince you of the thing.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: But the advanced stages, what do we say, the mentalists? Well, the best magicians are mentalist. Well, what does a mentalist do? He f****** hypnotizes you.

Cristina: Interesting. It is all a mind game. Like, even when you think of dark, the darkest magic of like killing someone, that person had to believe it, I think.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: And then they had a heart attack. Probably because they were so scared for their lives. Like, they truly believed this horrible thing was happening to them. But it's more that they believed in the curse or whatever than you actually doing anything.

Jack: Yeah, this kind of checks out. The cat people didn't have magic that just turned out to be advanced technology. So we ruled out that. Our only real example of it, other than watching magicians and things. And we know that the s***** magicians are just doing a literal trick, but what about the people who do something that's unexplainable? Okay, well, they're doing really, really overpowered sleight of hand.

Cristina: They're tricking our minds, though.

Jack: Oh, they're tricking our minds. The guy who just removes the wash off your hand, now he can show us how he did it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: On the side camera view. And be like, well, this is how I really got it. Off your hand. But in your point of view, until it's explained, you had a watch. Now that guy has your watch. And until it's explained, well, how the f*** did it happen? Yes, it's a magic trick.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And the same can go for it. Like, it could cause somebody to hallucinate. Hallucinations are a thing to happen in the mind. If you're crawling around inside somebody's mind and you know how to trigger a hallucination. Well, then why couldn't you make any object into any object. And while she's running away, here's a f****** comb. Turn it into a mountain. Because you know how to affect that.

Cristina: Yes, but there must be some drugs involved too, right, to do this hallucination part. I mean, witches have potions of.

Jack: Potions. Yeah. It could just be, again, throwing skilled enough witch, presumably. Because here's. I guess here's the other problem. Right. Are we talking alchemist, which is a type of, quote, magician. It's also affecting your mind and your body. Or are we talking a mentalist and a trickster? Now, somebody who has all of the above skills is a f****** savage. Because the best of witches do what? Potions, hex bags, brainwashing, all the tricks in the bag to alter your reality. And so the magic worked.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And I can make you feel drowsy. Oh, how am I doing it? Well, I give you some drugs, obviously. Or have I've intoxified myself consistently so that my atmosphere has it. And you have to come to my house so that I can tell you the fortune. But I've drugged myself with the thing I'm pumping into my air regularly so I'm not affected by it. But when you come in, you immediately feel different. Oh, the energy in here is weird, but once you're in here long enough, that drug is just here to make you suggestible.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And now I can more easily crawl in your mind or convince you of weird things. I could say words that are gonna trigger visuals.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: But I'm used to it. I'm not gonna be toxified by it. I drugged myself with this every day just to be immune. You came here once every seven months because I told you, don't come here often because it's not gonna work. You gotta experience the solutions. I told you. And then you come back and you know, oh, wow. Every time I come in here is an interesting energy. It's the power of that which I'm feeling.

Cristina: Or the priest.

Jack: Or the priest. Well, the wizard, you mean.

Cristina: Oh, wizard. I'm thinking of the priest when they have that smoky thingy.

Jack: Oh, yeah, but that's totally different because you're talking witch from priest. Now, what they're doing is the same, but their settings are different. Yes, that's really what you talk about, because you do feel a weird thing. I mean, you go into the confessional, you already got some weird thing. What? This. What's the first thing that happens when you go into a confessional? He's got a chant for you.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: He either has Some repetitive thing, trick in his mind to trigger a trick in yours. Hey, my child. Okay, now you feel small already. Tell me what your sins are. Okay, you're guilty of something. Already he's prepping you to be suggestible to confessing something so he can get the juice out of you.

Cristina: Yes. And then he tells you to say something 10 times.

Jack: Yeah. Which is part of the conditioning, the mental brainwashing.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And next time you come. Oh, I did the thing you told me to, Father.

Cristina: And it felt great.

Jack: And it felt great. So it's all the same abilities used in a million different ways.

Cristina: Yes. Okay. Okay. So none of this is real magic, but then there's this other guy who's like an evil witch version of Baba Yaga.

Jack: Wizard.

Cristina: Wizard. Yes. And. But he does this thing, though. Like, I'm sure all the other things you can say are illusions or whatever, but he does this unique thing where he hides his soul. He hides his soul in an egg, in a bird, in a fish, in a nest, or, you know, like some ridiculous, ridiculous thing. And once you find the thing, you could kill him, and that's how you kill him. But are you really killing him?

Jack: Has anybody done it?

Cristina: Yes. Who have to. Some random people. In his stories, the hero of the story has to go through the journey of finding the soul to crush the egg after, you know, this whole list of things. Because something will help him out. He'll help things out. And then the creatures will be like, okay, here is where he hides his soul. And then he'll have to find that animal within the animal within the animal that has the egg. Because it's really weird.

Jack: It's like a turducken.

Cristina: Yes, it's a turducken of his soul.

Jack: It's a. It's a turducken Easter hunt for a soul.

Cristina: Yes, that's exactly what's happening. But what's happening there because you crush the egg.

Jack: I don't know. This is. Now we're talking about something entirely different at this point. There's something entirely different because now we've established what magic is, what you're talking about doesn't even sound like magic anymore. There's no thing happening that's affecting anybody. There's no real condition that's affecting. Even if magic weren't in the person's mind, even if there was literally somebody affecting the external world, which at this point, we could say gods do that. So the difference between a mortal doing magic and a God doing magic is a God isn't doing magic a God has powers, usually from adrenochrome.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Right.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Now what you're describing is neither of those things. They're not creating a magic trick. They told you there's a thing in a place.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: There's nothing being affected. Your mind isn't being affected. The external world isn't being affected. So it's neither real nor fake magic. It's not brainwashing. There's no.

Cristina: Or maybe there is a little bit. Maybe the guy who hid it there, he's brain. He's been brainwashed to believe that that's where his soul is. And once he sees the egg being crushed, he dies because he truly believed that. That was like, who told him that?

Jack: Interesting point. So you're saying that the person whose soul is hidden in the object isn't the one performing the magic? There's a. The victim of who the magic was performed on.

Cristina: Yes. Or maybe he did believe. Like, maybe he did think he put his soul in an egg. Sure. But still, because he so believes it. Like the Dracula story, where it could be just a regular man in that movie of just like, are you really a vampire who can't stand the sun? Or are you just a guy who is.

Jack: Oh, I know which one you're talking about. Yeah. You believe the lie so much yourself.

Cristina: Yes. What if that's happening to him?

Jack: Then he wouldn't die when they crushed the egg.

Cristina: Huh?

Jack: He would. It would. The egg would be crushed. He would start freaking out, thinking he's dying at first, but then not actually die, and be like, what the f***?

Cristina: Huh? I guess. Right? But also, this guy can also transform into animals, which a lot of witches can do, too.

Jack: Do other people see him do this, or is he the only one who witnesses? I am in covert. I hide as a rat.

Cristina: No, I think they see him turn into birds, usually to kidnap people. And I think he turned the girl into a snake.

Jack: So he's f****** with people's heads left and right.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Altering. Because we've established. Okay, you can. You can change structures. Are you changing? This is what's interesting, though, because a lot of creatures on adrenochrome, a lot of gods, a lot of creatures that survive off of fear are shapeshifters. A lot of aliens are shapeshifters. The reptilians. Many shape shifters exist. But as we've just established, magic is really sleight of hand in mentalism and or alchemy. So there's three different branches to it. There's a complete trick. Hypnosis.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Or toxifying someone. Those are the three options that could lead to more or less the same result.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Now, out of those three pieces that lead to the same result, are any of them really creating a transformation? Or did you get drugged with the alchemist and you're literally hallucinating? You see things that aren't happening. You could pump this into an entire place.

Cristina: So he made them believe that he turned into a leper?

Jack: Yes. Or not hypnotized into thinking so.

Cristina: Okay. And the same thing with turning someone else into a snake.

Jack: Yes. You convince them they are. You can make somebody cloak like a chicken if you hypnotize them the right way.

Cristina: Yes. Yes, you can.

Jack: So you can make everybody else think she turned into a snake, and then you tell her you're a snake and she slithers and they see a snake.

Cristina: Weirdo. It could be all the same thing.

Jack: But then we come back to Baba Yaga. All these overpowered tricks of a mortal affecting a mortal, and then actual powers through adrenochrome and fear. Now, we know you gotta level up to a certain degree to use fear. That seems impractical because our only examples now are creatures from the shadow realm or gods.

Cristina: Mm

Jack: Is Baba Yaga a God?

Cristina: I don't know. Because there's. If there's more than one, then what does that mean?

Jack: I mean, there's more than one God.

Cristina: Yes, That's.

Jack: But is she like the demi est of demigods? Like the lowest tier God? She's the first step into this.

Cristina: Maybe.

Jack: It could be.

Cristina: There has to be more than one step of.

Jack: Yeah. Because we know there's some omniscient other thing. And we know off of when we're talking demigods where it becomes questionable as Santa Claus, is he omniscient or as close to omniscient as it gets before actually transcending to something that we have no language for?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So then does that mean Santa Claus is the top of the demis and Baba Yaga is bottom? That she's borderline just immortal?

Cristina: I think so. But where does fairies. Where is the fairies in this?

Jack: I don't know where fairies land. Because fairies can go into the shadow realm without needing fear or adrenochrome.

Cristina: Oh. Okay.

Jack: I don't know what the f*** a fairy is. I think we've established a rank for everything else that exists, including things in the shadow realm, and we still don't have a f****** clue what a fairy is.

Cristina: That's. I don't know.

Jack: Fairy's complicated.

Cristina: Because there's some other s***, but they can do whatever.

Jack: Yeah. There's creatures from the shadow realm. Sweet.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: The shadow realm has gods. Jehovah of Dark, maybe many others that we don't even know about.

Cristina: We know fairies used to be gods or called gods.

Jack: Yes, but they'll be s*** on by gods. On that being said, their abilities are interesting. It's powers. It's real powers.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So they did probably just low tier demigods.

Cristina: Higher than Baba Yaga, but lower than others.

Jack: Lower than most other gods.

Cristina: Yeah. Yeah.

Jack: Which is how they move seamlessly, which would explain how Jehovah of Dark came through. Maybe gods can move seamlessly from one side to the other, but there's no benefit. Maybe there's no fear in the shadow realm. And most gods need that. So they stay over here where there is fear. But creatures from the shadow realm cross over, including Jehovah of Dark, that wanted more power, so he crossed over. But he didn't realize how much competition there was over here.

Cristina: But it's so weird that witches feel like they're just humans, but there are witches that do kill and transform. And they want fear, but they also want blood. It's like. It's so much like already the creatures from the shadow realm, but they're not.

Jack: Well, they're not. You're totally right. So interesting idea, right? Santa Claus. Fairies at the North Pole deal with Santa Claus. Not even fairies. There's some other. There's some creature at the North Pole that comes from the shadow realm. There's a. There's an exchange happening there that allows them to not be harmful, get everything they need to exist on this end. Santa Claus to benefit from whatever he has. A witch's whole thing. The same way that a magician. And I guess the tears are I guess just three tiers. And then the Baba Yagas of the world, tricksters, Magicians or tricksters, mentalists and alchemists.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And then Baba Yagas that are all three of these things put together, plus adrenochrome and s***, fear or whatever. Now, in all three of these cases, a alchemist must study alchemy. You have to understand chemistry, and you have to understand biology to affect biology with your chemistry. Thus, an alchemist.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: A mentalist has to learn hypnosis and psychology. A trickster has to learn perception and sleight of hand. It's homework. Yeah, it's all homework. So if you saw the f****** thing, let's say you saw Santa Claus or some of those things, some of the creatures they have, or you Were at a battlefield. Saw, wolf, saw. Change. You're like, I'm understanding. I'm taking notes. Then you're a scientist to some degree, too, and you study up on the thing that you saw in the natural world, and now you're trying to imitate it. What's more sciency than that?

Cristina: Yes. And that would be what Baba Yak.

Jack: Well, that's what every witch, every trickster, and every alchemist does. And to be Baba Yaga, you'd have to go through all of these things to be the best at all of it.

Cristina: So you probably already know about the other world or the shadow.

Jack: You've studied the living s*** out of it. You might not be able to cross over, but maybe that's your goal now.

Cristina: Maybe that is because we don't know what her goal is.

Jack: We know what her goal is.

Cristina: Fear and adrenochrome.

Jack: But also myths of witches suggest some witches have achieved immortality. Well, what makes you immortal if not adrenochrome?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And even if you die with adrenal chrome, you just go to the shadow realm. And if you're overpowered in the shadow realm and know how to use fear, you could just come back to the mortal realm, to the physical realm. You've achieved immortality.

Cristina: Yes. And that's probably what Baba Yaga has done.

Jack: So Baba Yaga probably seems like a ghost, and there's narratives that make it seem like she just came out of thin air. But in reality, Baba Yaga has achieved the ability to move in and out of the shadow realm. Yes, probably by taking adrenochrome and then dying, probably willingly.

Cristina: Mm. Whoa. She didn't turn into anything special or anything.

Jack: Probably did Whatever distorted figure is the name that they got. They look a certain way. Okay, Maybe that's what happened to their body. Yes, but humans who take adrenochrome just become a vampire, which would also explain the continuous need of eating people. It's survival. You got to keep doing it, or you become a f****** zombie. Yes, but you already know how to trick, how to hypnotize, and how to toxify. And you drank blood and you f****** died and crossed over. So you're a djinn. Baba Yaga is a djinn who understands a lot about science, okay. And uses it effectively. Boom.

Cristina: So she is a magical creature.

Jack: No. Well, the magic that we understand.

Cristina: Yes. Yes. That's what I mean.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: The adrenochrome creature, I guess.

Jack: Yes. Everything goes back to it. God d*** it.

Cristina: Yeah, but it makes sense. It's homework.

Jack: Yeah, that's f****** crazy. What doesn't come back? Hey. Ever since we found out about Adrenochrome, everything. Everything is so annoying.

Cristina: Eventually we'll see Keanu Reeves character drinking.

Jack: Some blood and then crossover blow his own brains out.

Cristina: Yes. Like a bad guy's finally gonna kill him and then he's just gonna come back to life because he's got magic.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Or not magic, quote unquote magic.

Jack: But that's kind of cool.

Cristina: So.

Jack: So there are three branches of quote, magic, unquote.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Because again, there are alchemists. And alchemists are particularly weird. Kind of magician make anything f****** happen.

Cristina: That's so crazy.

Jack: But the question is, is an alchemist more overpowered than. I guess. Yeah, I think an alchemist is the most overpowered because you don't need to know the individual, you just need to know biology and chemistry.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Because you can drug anybody in, the same effects would take place.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: That gives you a hundred percent assurance that what you're gonna try is gonna work. As opposed to hypnosis. You gotta be really f****** good at hypnosis. Cuz it could fail.

Cristina: It could definitely fail. Yeah.

Jack: And sleight of hand. You gotta be really good at sleight of hand because it could fail.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: But potions. Oh, that's the shortcut. On the flip side, you have to come in contact with the person. You gotta get them on the drug without them knowing.

Cristina: You gotta convince them it's medicine.

Jack: Yeah. Something like that. You gotta get it in their body somehow.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Whether you pump it into your own air. And now they're convinced different energy and all the switches telling me things. And I'm super convinced of it. Oh my God.

Cristina: Mm. That is weird.

Jack: Interesting. So like a fortune reader. That's both hypnosis and alchemy.

Cristina: And alchemy.

Jack: Yeah. That's the drugs and the hypnosis.

Cristina: Where's the drugs at?

Jack: Well, it's probably being pumped into the air. That's why you feel the energy and it starts affecting your body, thus making you more susceptible. So even if they're mediocre. Hypnotist.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Well, you're already easy to convince.

Cristina: And which one's the priest?

Jack: The priest is a hypnotist.

Cristina: He's a hypnotist.

Jack: Well, it depends on the priest. Right. I would say a pastor is purely a hypnotist, but a priest is a hypnotist and probably an alchemist. Because a lot of the time they give you, what? Drink a little wine, eat a little bread.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: They're Convincing you to consume something and.

Cristina: You don't know what's in there.

Jack: You know what's in there. You're just believing that they're. That it is what they say it is.

Cristina: Yep. Or you're believing that it's really the body of Christ.

Jack: Yeah. Whatever narrative they tell you you ate some Christ, it's in you. You're gonna feel the power. Oh, I do. I feel it.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: And also, you no longer have sadness and, oh, my God, the Jesus inside me. I no longer feel sad. No. You got drugs. Brought up your euphoria, bro. You're high.

Cristina: You're high. Yeah.

Jack: You're high. And so you're like. Yeah, I feel happier.

Jack: Well, yeah. He drugged you with happy. Your endorphins are flying off the wall.

Cristina: That's ridiculous. That could be. We don't know. I mean, we do know. That's what we do know.

Jack: That's literally what's happening.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: But I guess the whack lower tier version of this is sleight of hand. That's. You're not crawling inside of anybody's. You're not brainwashing people.

Cristina: No.

Jack: You're convincing the gaps in perception.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: I guess that would be the hardest to do.

Cristina: That's the hardest to do.

Jack: Hardest to do because it's the one with most ability to slip up.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And also requires the least amount of homework, so it's obviously the easiest to do. It's the easiest and the hardest. Anybody can do it. And it's hard to do successfully.

Cristina: Okay, anyone can do it, but.

Jack: Yeah, anybody could do it. But it's hard to do, like. Well, you're probably gonna grind it out. Have to do a million different parts to convince somebody of one thing.

Cristina: You gotta practice it.

Jack: Yeah. Well, any of these things got. Yeah, but like hypnosis, if you just manage to get them into the trance, you win.

Cristina: Yes, that's it.

Jack: You win.

Cristina: But we've also seen it go wrong. Where they are who, whatever you wanted them to be. Like there was a girl who just was too. She. I think he wanted her to hate him and then she just.

Jack: Oh, I know what you're talking.

Cristina: She loved hate him. She. Like it was some other.

Jack: It's because she was too susceptible and she did her part and he sat her down. Then he went to the next one. That person was supposed to fall in love with him.

Cristina: Yes, that worked.

Jack: And then he went to the next one. That person was supposed to hate him. But the first person was too susceptible and heard all the instructions for the Second and third person. And they both loved them and hated him.

Cristina: So she got those. Oh, my.

Jack: Yeah. So the one who was in love with him would get close and she would get jealous because she's in love.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But the one who hates him would be angry and she'd be like, yeah, f*** him.

Cristina: Okay. So it's more. Okay.

Jack: Susceptibility is what ruined that lady's mind.

Cristina: Okay. So it wasn't that. That wasn't that gone wrong or anything.

Jack: It wasn't that it went wrong is that it went too. Right. And she was too susceptible. So any instruction he gave to anybody else on that stage while she was tranced affected her.

Cristina: Wow. You gotta be careful with who you do that to.

Jack: Yep.

Cristina: Whoa. I didn't realize that. Okay.

Jack: Interesting, right?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: That's a very unique scenario.

Cristina: Wow. And there's a witch that is in Italy that works a lot like Santa Claus. She's very similar to him. Her name is Befana. I think that's how you say her name.

Jack: What about her?

Cristina: And she does pretty much the same thing as him. She lives forever. Which kind of like him, she rides a broom instead of a sled. And she gives kids candy and she gives bad kids love. Cool. She's a pretty much Santa Claus, but a witch.

Jack: Do they expect her to do. To give them stuff?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Oh, interesting.

Cristina: I think they also celebrate Santa. I don't know if it's just her, but I'm pretty sure they do both.

Jack: Wait, hold up, hold up. Let's pause right now and take a couple of steps back. Is she Santa's fangirl or Santa's gold digger?

Cristina: Actually, she has more to do with Jesus than she does with Santa.

Jack: Well, so does Santa. He capitalized on the Jesus game.

Cristina: Yes, but Jesus gave her this role. Yes.

Jack: Was St. Nick around Jesus time? He was shortly after. Right?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So, yeah, it was like the third century or some s*** when we looked at it. So then the question is, if Jesus, century one, well, century zero, before century one, gives this lady all these instructions and this is how you could best do it. One, how does Jesus know it's baby Jesus?

Cristina: It wasn't even like old Jesus. It was the baby. He was just born.

Jack: How did he give her these rules? He wasn't talking.

Cristina: Oh. I guess he was a child by the time she found him, because she had to find him first. And then he told her, okay, here's what you got to do.

Jack: So this kid was a genius. Figuring out how adrenochrome works and how Fear works in general because later in the future, when he becomes 30 years old, he goes on this weird tirade, telling people about it, and then they literally try to get rid of him. And that's when he's like, no, I'm gonna drink that adrenal girl this s***.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And then vampire. Now I'm overpowered. I could. You can't even kill me. I'm faster, smarter, cooler than all of you.

Cristina: He already knew this when he was like, he.

Jack: So he gives the lady this role.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And sometime after. So she's immortal. She lives all the way to the third century now. She's 300 years old. Enter St. Nick. He sees it. He thinks. He thinks. Sees maybe creatures that she connects with. You know, fear. Oh, there's enough fear that people come through. And I'm like, what if. Because we don't know how he got in contact with the creatures in the first place, we know the deal is with the creatures. Allow a lot of things to happen simultaneously, and then I become overpowered. Now I could do it myself. Yes, okay, great. Fantastic. But he needed the creatures to begin with. Now, did he see her interacting with creatures? And it's like, guys, listen, just crazy story. What if we large scale this? We start small, we spread the propaganda. Everybody starts believing it don't hurt anybody. It needs to be vague, because fear. We need the fear. It's gonna be small doses, but we spread it more and more. More of you can come through. We can spread it farther, create more. I get stronger collectively.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And over time, we spread it across the world. I'm crazy powerful. Now, you guys could just relax. I'll let you feed off of my fear. You guys could do whatever you want, but now I'm immortal. But he got it from this f******.

Cristina: Lady who's only doing this one place.

Jack: And he. He Jehovah of lighted her.

Cristina: Yeah, maybe. Because he also took the whole cookies and milk thing. Well, she doesn't have milk. She has wine instead. But cookies and wine.

Jack: Because she was with Jesus and Jesus loves wine.

Cristina: Yeah, she's drinking Jesus blood.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: So. And yeah, I guess he saw her and he was like, yeah, this. This is a pretty good gig.

Jack: So he optimized it. He innovated that s***.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: It's like, let's. Let's upscale it global. I want to take this business everywhere.

Cristina: But she's considered a witch, which is weird because, like.

Jack: Well, that means that Santa Claus at some point was considered a wizard when he was St. Nick. What did they say? Oh, he was performing miracles.

Cristina: Oh, crap.

Jack: And what are miracles if not magic tricks?

Cristina: Oh, all saints are magical. Well, not magic. Not magic, because, you know, what did.

Jack: Darren Brown say when he performed this thing? Well, I'm gonna come up here and I'm going to perform miracles.

Cristina: Yes. And that's what saints do.

Jack: And that comes from gnosis and drugs and sleight of hand, Dear fish. Now it is Matt One fish. Now it's mad bread. How'd I do it? Well, you're f****** trickster, bro. You know how to do sleight of hand. You probably had a bunch of bread somewhere.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Or I hypnotized all of you. Now you just see a lot of bread. Well, you're all high as f*** and hallucinated. Mad bread. Because I said the word bread. Who cares? Yeah, you see, a lot of bread is the point. Thus a miracle.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And she's performing miracles. Yeah, they say magical, she's witch, but. But she talked to Jesus and did a trick. Sounds like a miracle to me.

Cristina: Yes. So it's all the same thing.

Jack: The difference is we just called her a witch and Saint Nick a saint. But, like, what's the difference? Sexism.

Cristina: Yes. Pretty much, yeah.

Jack: What's the f****** difference if not sexism?

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: That's it. That's all that happened. Sexism. He's a saint because he did it. No, she did the same thing. F****** burn her at the stake. She's a witch.

Cristina: Yes. Maybe there are a lot of female witches.

Jack: Well, let's go back to the Salem witch trials. How many men, like, were. Were burned alive at the Salem witch trials? Now that.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: How many priests for the Catholic Church that could perform miracles existed at that same f****** moment?

Cristina: Probably all of them.

Jack: How many people were just on the street, did a miracle. They happen to be a guy. And that's why we call it a miracle. They're like, wow, God gifted this to you. A woman directly next to him did exactly the same thing. Probably better. And they were like, f****** killer.

Cristina: Yes. Yes.

Jack: Hey, they both made that quarter, 10 quarters. Killer. Kill her. Kill her. Him. Give him a church. Kill her, though.

Cristina: Yes. Well, probably because he's saying this is through God while she's saying this is through nature.

Jack: Yeah, because nature. Evil.

Cristina: Nature. Yes, evil. Because the devil is somehow related to nature. So it's evil.

Jack: It's weird because God. Nature, like God made nature or whatever. But that just goes to show you that there's a weird disconnect that chances are if anything in the Bible is accurate. Well, Lucifer wanted you to know he didn't want to keep you ignorant. Lucifer wanted you to understand and to experience. And it's like, bro, did Lucifer just make nature? And like, Lucifer made people. Then Jehovah was like, meh, having it. But then, side story, was Lucifer the original. He wasn't Jehovah of Light. That's a different person. That was already on the side.

Cristina: No, but he was also of light.

Jack: Lucifer was of Light.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Unless Lucifer was Jehovah of Light. Okay, let's. Let's analyze this real quick. Lucifer, Jehovah of Light. Jehovah of Dark shows up, somehow traps Jehovah of Light. Right. And then lies to the people. But Jehovah of Light is still godlike. It just has enough ability to communicate with them to some degree. And it's like, look, I put this tree over here. He can't destroy that tree. This tree is too powerful. Is my original power. He's just got here. He doesn't have the power to take that tree down. The best he can tell you is don't f****** eat from it in that tree. I made that anticipating this f****** a******. Eat from that tree and you'll see him. You see what it really is. You'll see that he looks like he's from the shadow realm and he told you not to eat from it. Why? The tree of knowledge doesn't want you to have knowledge. What? And so you eat from the fruit and he's like, no, you did the wrong thing. I'm a punish you forever. But Jehovah of Light, The Lightbringer.

Cristina: The Lightbringer.

Jack: Lucifer.

Cristina: Lucifer, yes. Yeah.

Jack: Jehovah of Light. So the Jehovah that spread throughout the rest of the world, the New Testament Jehovah. Lucifer.

Cristina: Yeah, yeah.

Jack: It's s***.

Cristina: After he brought Jesus or he got Jesus into the light.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because Jehovah. Jehovah of dark created Jesus. He was trying to stay on this side.

Cristina: You think the Jehovah Dark.

Jack: I think Jehovah, yeah. Because you made Jesus in order to exist as a mortal.

Cristina: Light did. Because he was trapped. So he needed a way out and.

Jack: He just became mortal.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But then Jehovah of Dark convinced a whole bunch of people kill him.

Cristina: Yes. Which is fine with Jesus, because now I can.

Jack: I turned myself into this. If you kill me, I'm free.

Cristina: Yes. Oh, s***.

Jack: So the argument is Jehovah, Wow. This is. This is gonna be. Oh, this is it. This. We f****** figured it out. Jehovah of Dark comes in. Jehovah of Light already over here. Jehovah Light made People. Or not really, but he's controlling these people.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: He has region with people, and he creates a tree. And he's like, all my knowledge, all my. I need one of you to replace me in the future.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And that tree is gonna give you now. No. Almost no God over here can f*** with that tree. There's some evil tricks that can stop me. And then, boom. Jehovah of Dark shows up. Jehovah dark traps original Jehovah of Light.

Cristina: And hides the tree well.

Jack: He tells them, yeah, you don't f****** touch this tree. And he tries to look like Jehovah of Light. You don't touch this tree. I'm telling you, don't touch the street. But Jehovah of Light is powerful enough to get the word out. And they do.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Right now I'm a trap. Jehovah of Light forever. You f****** piece of s***. You somehow ratted me out. So I'm going over there, and these people, they're gonna die. They're no longer immortal. Right? Fantastic.

Cristina: He hides the tree and he hides the other people, who are probably related somehow.

Jack: Yes. So now these two. Okay. No more immortals. You. You two are gonna f****** die eventually.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: You can reproduce and you're gonna die, too. And I'm just figuring this out, Right? Maybe there was never immortality in the first place. Different discussion. Then, 2,000 years later, the idea occurs to Jehovah of Light from his prison. Well, I had enough energy to communicate with him in what seemed to be a sort of mortal body of sorts.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: What if I can do that same thing, but instead of a snake, I am a human?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Now I gotta. I'm gonna put all my energy and just become that thing, all my exaggerated power. Put it in there. No, that can't be.

Cristina: It can't be.

Jack: Because unless he really just put his energy and literally became a mortal.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But then it doesn't make sense, because Jesus wouldn't become a vampire. He couldn't be the first vampire. Because once he dies, he gets freed. Unless we're saying that Jehovah of Light has gone through this crazy transition, but then who is running the show now at this moment? At this moment. Because he would just be a Djinn. He be. He was originally a God. He gets trapped. He becomes immortal. In that time of being mortal, he becomes a vampire, dies, becomes a jinn, crosses over back. Okay, that doesn't work. So unless he never became a vampire, in which case, when he dies, the vessel now allows him out and he's Jehovah of Light on this side again. Boom. Kaji. Jehovah of dark. Now you're f*****. And traps him somewhere. Unless. Well, no. No, never mind.

Cristina: Fix this. I don't know.

Jack: No, it works. It works. Jehovah. Well, Jesus. We don't. We don't actually know. He died.

Cristina: No.

Jack: He goes to sleep. A vampire goes and recovers. He never died. No, he took adrenochrome. He had to. Oh, s***. He just went through the process again.

Cristina: He went through the process.

Jack: He was the first vampire.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And then he kept powering up.

Cristina: Yeah. And started making portals.

Jack: Well, no, he used fear as well.

Cristina: Yeah. Yeah.

Jack: And boosted. Got more powerful and became godlike all over again. And then trapped. Jehovah of dark. Using probably magic. He probably. Again, Jehovah. No. I don't know if creatures from the shadow realm have psychology the way that beings from this side do. There's so many holes here. But we're onto something.

Cristina: We're onto something for sure. It's there. We got the pieces.

Jack: Yes. We got the parts. We're close.

Cristina: We're getting there.

Jack: We're touching it.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: We don't know exactly what.

Cristina: No. But we're there. We're almost there.

Jack: D***. So we found out what magic is, at least.

Cristina: Which is still not magic.

Jack: It's not magic. D***. So there's no such thing as magic. No, there's just power in science. And sometimes power is science.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So. Yeah.

Cristina: So.

Jack: So magic might just not be real.

Cristina: No, it's just science. Yeah.

Jack: It's weird. Yeah. It's mostly science because we're just f****** with people's heads.

Cristina: Yep.

Jack: Or drugging them. Tricking perception. It's all science. Understanding how the universe works.

Cristina: And maybe adrenochrome.

Jack: Maybe adrenochrome. That's the closest thing to magic we have. And that's still just chemistry and biology.

Cristina: Yeah. Okay, so it's still in the science.

Jack: So, science.

Cristina: Wow.

Jack: D***. No such thing as magic.

Cristina: No.

Jack: Eventually we're gonna find it and be like, what?

Cristina: I don't know if we will.

Jack: Well, here's the thing. When you stop using adrenochrome and it doesn't enter your body, but you are gathering fear. That's magic. I don't know how that's being used. We have no explanation for that part. We know that's what's happening. We've had creatures tell us that's what's happening. We've studied it. We've seen the effects. We have infinite data on that factually being the case.

Cristina: But what part is magic, though? What is the fear?

Jack: How the is anything using fear? We know they do. Yes, but it's fear is that is the ability to get energy from that. What magic really is, it's not science. And it is real.

Cristina: I don't know. Because whatever, it's biological somehow are you getting it?

Jack: How are you getting the fear into? It's not entering your body, but you getting something from it, it's sustaining you. Some creatures literally survive off of it.

Cristina: Off of the fear.

Jack: Santa Claus isn't drinking blood. He optimized using fear.

Cristina: That's true.

Jack: But what the f*** does that mean? And we call him the most magical.

Cristina: So there is something going on. Okay. Yeah.

Jack: There's a question mark. And as long as there's a question mark, we'll say that's magic. All right, so we'll say magic is just the dark that we say in science, when we know something is factually science but can't explain it. Well, it's dark this, it's dark that. Well, in the natural world, when we can't explain whether it is science, it's magic until further notice.

Cristina: All right, so for now, it's magic. Yep.

Jack: Whatever feet, whatever fear or connection fear has to godliness and power.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Without Matt, without science, that's magic.

Cristina: All right. We got something.

Jack: Yeah. So that's crazy. We found out what the h*** magic is. Fantastic. Didn't think that would happen ever. But we got there.

Cristina: We got there. We did it.

Jack: Yeah. On the flip side, we have conversations where we're talking about creatures that we thought was magic. We've talked about fairies, we've talked about cat people when we thought they were using magic when it was a giant question mark back in the day.

Cristina: Yes. And even werewolves transformation were sometimes very magical sounding.

Jack: Yes. Until we found out what that really was. Or how even werewolves came to be in narrative form, not the physical form.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So you guys can actually find all of that? There's a plethora of. Before we found out what magic is like today, a bunch of theories on what it could have been and us explaining things away as science instead of magic. So you can find all that stuff on the official website, greatthoughts.info on Apple podcast, Spotify, or anywhere you get your podcasts.

Cristina: And you can reach us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and TikTok @justconvopod.

Jack: Yes. And remember to rate and review the show and always subscribe so you can can get those notifications the moment new episodes arrive.

Cristina: And let someone who might like this show know about It.

Jack: Yep. Tell somebody. We have disproven the last couple of pieces of magic as science. Accept whatever the f*** fear is. To gods.

Cristina: Yes. Awesome. This has been the Rambling podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Bye. What?

Jack: Because he lives 60 years and then live 60 years as a result? Ghost robot.

Cristina: I don't know. I just think different versions of you just pop up, taking your place, and we just don't even realize it. Like, I don't know which you I'm talking to.

Jack: No, no, listen, listen. I'm pretty sure that the first version of you was you. Yeah, but the first version of me was a ghost robot.

Cristina: What if that came after.

Jack: Well, we established that it happened way, way early. Then that ghost robot is who started talking the original s*** about the Illuminati. And then that ghost robot got killed with something again. Super mega killed, I guess, by the Illuminati who had clones of him. And then the first clone happens. The first clone became a bit crooked and also talked s***, but they hadn't done anything yet.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Then that clone died with Dave and the other clone of you. So those three got taken out.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Then the third version, AKA second set of clones, showed up. That's genus. That's where the genocidal Jack came in. It was just destroying everything.

Cristina: Mm. Is that you?

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And taking out cockroach people.

Cristina: No.

Jack: The order here is f***** up. I don't know. It's really convoluted. We have to really get somebody to dig through this and find out what happened.

Cristina: Yeah, because there's also the one that's you traveling in time.

Jack: Yes. I'm pretty sure that's the same genocidal Jack. He killed the cat people and the.

Cristina: Cockroach people and the ghost robot. Like, how did it die? How do you kill a ghost robot? Doesn't it just turn into a ghost?

Jack: Well, no. The ghost robot was also the special me. No, but that was a clone of a clone. Wow. There's two special me's.

Cristina: There's no two special. There's just one special you.

Jack: If we find out, we gotta go back and, like, really, There's a lot of episodes to go through.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: We got to try to understand what's happened and how we got here to begin with.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: It's a lot. It's complicated.

Cristina: Good morning. Good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor, and published by Great Thoughts.info art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McAllister with social media managed by Amber Black.

Rambling 151: Powerful Beings

Was Jehovah a single person or a group of people? Are Jehovah’s angels just Zeus’ children rewritten? Are the soldiers in Jehovah’s army (angels) roughly as powerful as Jehovah, but they merely believe in his philosophy and follow him rather than attempting to replace him? The duo unpack the possibility that Jehovah and his angels were merely a powerful group of humans with adrenochrome on their side at war with other factions of humans achieving the same abilities awarded by adrenochrome but through other rituals and traditions. What they discover about Hitler and Jehovah in the process is something no one could have ever predicted!

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed

  • Hitler
  • Zeus
  • Jehovah
  • Adrenochrome
  • Power
  • Biblical Giants
  • Small Humans
  • Biblical Metaphors
  • Omniscience
  • Nothingness
  • The Garden of Eden

Our Links:

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod

Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod

Instagram -https://instagram.com/justconvopod


+Transcript

Jack: This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised. Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Just Conversation Podcast, the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas in childish ways. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And if you haven't yet, remember to hit that subscribe button to get notified the second new episodes are released. Released.

Cristina: Also, this show is most enjoyable with a listening partner to share opinions and ideas on topics we discuss.

Jack: Yes. So be sure to pull someone close and scream at them that this is the show. This, the Just Conversation podcast, is the show. You're gonna be like, what do you mean? And you're gonna be like, it's the show. Be like, but what? The show.

Cristina: The what?

Jack: Which of the many? And why is this? And it's like, no, no, no, it's the show. There's one show and it's that show. It's like, no, but what about, like, Supernatural? And it's like, no, no, no, no. That's not real. Only the Just Conversation podcast is real.

Cristina: Is a real show or is real like.

Jack: No, it's a real show.

Cristina: Historically, both. Okay.

Jack: We are the show that's ever existed. Everything else is an illusion created by the Matrix. Anyway, so we were talking about how Jehovah.

Cristina: Right.

Jack: Everybody listening? We're back on this.

Cristina: Yes, whatever. We can't help it.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the angels are based on the Greek gods. We know that exact thing. Even with the Dead Sea Scrolls continuously being uncovered, all we're finding out is that it's basically a copy and paste of a bunch of Greek mythology s***.

Cristina: Yes, that sounds right.

Jack: So the same way that all the angels, all the gods were sort of equal to Zeus, maybe slightly less powerful, but they were equal in that Zeus is a demigod. He's a flesh person who you can kill and will stay dead. And all the other gods are essentially the same thing. My argument is that Jehovah, being based on this, works the same way. Now, he is the loudest, and he claims to be the one and only God, but I think all the angels are.

Cristina: Would it be equal to him?

Jack: Would be equal to him to some degree.

Cristina: Like, all the demigods would be equal.

Jack: To Zeus, all the gods to Zeus the way. All the angels to Jehovah. And the example I have is that Hitler was one man.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And there were millions of soldiers under his control, but they're all men.

Cristina: I mean, they were all equal to him.

Jack: Yeah. They're all Equal to him. But we don't know any of them.

Cristina: They're superhuman.

Jack: Yeah. We don't know a single one of them. And he is not special. Hitler was not special. He was just another person.

Cristina: But he made himself special.

Jack: He made himself special. He was the loudest, he was the scariest, he was the most ruthless. And as a result, he's who we remember. The same applies for Zeus, who was particularly ruthless and violent. And same applied to Jehovah. Jehovah was what, at the beginning? Aggressive, ruthless, monstrous, murderous, destroy, whatever. Until people are like, if we stop f****** with him, he will stop retaliating. Yeah, let's just listen. And then what? He just became a passive, kind guy because, like, everything is in the orders that I wanted it to be.

Cristina: But he had to be that tough guy first.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Weird. Yes, he is. He could be just another angel. Like, angel could just be the word for God or gods or demigods or whatever.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: 100% equal. But in all these. In all these stories about gods, whether it's Christianity or. What was the one that you just mentioned?

Jack: Greek mythology?

Cristina: Greek mythology or Norse mythology? Norse mythology. Thank you. Norse mythology. They all have giants as well in these stories. They're giants. And giants seem to be something other than human and gods, or at least that's why I feel like that's what's going on. If there are giants in the Christian book, what are they? Are they aliens?

Jack: Well, there's an interesting question there, because there are giants in the Christian Bible, especially the one that David fought.

Cristina: But in the Bible, they're human and angel babies. Right. Or something like that.

Jack: Well, Goliath wasn't. Goliath was just a giant that I believe was human.

Cristina: Oh, he was just a. But he's a giant human. He's not a giant giant. You know, like in.

Jack: No, I think he was abnormally huge. I think he was an impossible size.

Cristina: Oh, like an actual giant?

Jack: Like an actual giant.

Cristina: Oh, so then what are these giants?

Jack: Okay, so an easy argument for this would be people were smaller in the past. If you trace us far back enough, we're actually at our tallest proportion moment. Yes. Okay, well, it's complicated because it branches off in two different directions. Right. We began as smaller humans, but we were taller apes. So when we were still in the ape age.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: We were pretty big.

Cristina: For apes.

Jack: For apes.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And this is in the period where we started standing up on two legs and, like, looking around in that. Like, we were pretty tall around that time. Neanderthals, that kind of s***. We're talking huge. But then we enter the human ish era. We're humanoid and almost human.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And then for whatever reason, there's a crazy dip and we're very small. Through the beginning of humanity, we're still.

Cristina: Big compared to apes, we're still small.

Jack: We're pretty small. We're talking like average height being anywhere between four, five and five feet.

Cristina: Whoa. Okay. What?

Jack: And we know that people can be as tall as 7ft, 9 inches, 9, 8ft. What's tallest human? Like, okay, we got huge f****** people.

Cristina: Yeah. But not many.

Jack: Almost twice the size of the average. If the average was four or five.

Cristina: Yeah. Are those giants?

Jack: So these people are technically giant? I think you're technically giant after you pass like six, six or something.

Cristina: But that's not what they're talking about in these stories.

Jack: Well, we don't know, because the problem with interpreting the Bible literally is that it's a book of metaphors to begin with.

Cristina: What about the other books, are they also metaphors?

Jack: I don't know. Assuming that these are also periods of time when they were. How do I put it? Okay. If you were to say, what is the past of Asia look like? Asians are usually pretty small. So were they smaller? Evolution tells us yes, probably. But then we look at something like Africans that are really tall.

Cristina: I don't.

Jack: If two of these people were to.

Cristina: Cross paths, would one see the other as a giant? Is that what you're saying?

Jack: Chances are in the past we would have seen the other as a giant.

Cristina: If we didn't know that they were people already.

Jack: Their skin already looks different. We've never encountered these people before. All we know is that they're humanoid, but literally twice the size of any of us.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: That's a giant. And when you write about that, that's a giant. And if they've never encountered you and you've never encountered them, Fear and hostility is human response, survival.

Cristina: Yeah. So they weren't really giants battling gods then. He's in a lot of these stories. It's a power, like fight between giants and gods for whatever.

Jack: I mean, for power, whatever. It's possible. Let's look at, let's compare these two situations. Right. You have Jehovah, all his angels waging war. We have Zeus, all the gods waging war.

Cristina: Yeah. And the Titans that are giants.

Jack: Yes. In these two cases we have the loudest guy who we know of and their army. Like we said, Hitler and his army.

Cristina: Okay, Right.

Jack: If this was taking place so long ago that it was let's say, I don't know the first f****** year, but the same event. So there's a guy who's a Hitler equivalent, super loud, surrounded by people just like him. But he's the loudest, he's the scariest, he's more ruthless. And there's a group of rebels who come from somewhere else. These rebels come from a. Now this Hitler is taking place in Asia. He's a short guy. We are terrorizing. We don't know if there's anything outside of Asia. We're over here terrorizing everything in Asia. Taking over, expanding, trying to explore what there is. And then these people popped out of nowhere. And they're like, that's wrong, what they're doing. But they're African. They're very tall, they're old school African. Like 6, 5, every single one of them. And over here, you're all four or five, every single one of you.

Cristina: So you're saying that these characters are probably based on humans, then it's not gods at all.

Jack: It's not gods at all. It was just some guy whose loudness was godly.

Cristina: Yeah, it's like in, what is it, North Korea, where he convinced everyone that he is pretty much God and he can't. Like, he doesn't need to use the bathroom and stuff like that. Like, there's stories like that about whoever this ruling evil dude is. This ancient Hitler.

Jack: Yes, yes, yes, exactly. Exactly. And I think that it's possible that the giants we've heard about were just an opposing team. The other people.

Cristina: The other people. Okay, I guess.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: What? So it's not really. But then none of these stories matter when it comes to what could exist besides us.

Jack: Yes. Because everything is a story about us. And we just have to keep in mind that we are speaking metaphorically at all times in these books. So when we say giants. Well, what does it mean? Tall guy.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: When we say God, maybe people in power, people with weapons, people can cause damage. People who other people listen to because.

Cristina: They just seem magical because of that. Because they have abilities.

Jack: No, no, no. It's not even magical. Those are also just metaphors.

Cristina: Oh, okay. Yeah.

Jack: Everything is a metaphor.

Cristina: Yes, yes. Everything's a metaphor. Okay, okay. Take the magic out of it.

Jack: Take the magic out of it. Yeah. It's just loud people and war and crap of that nature.

Cristina: What? I guess. And it's just a history book.

Jack: It's a history book of metaphoric stories.

Cristina: Yes, all the books.

Jack: All the books.

Cristina: All the books are telling the same story, which are all metaphors.

Jack: Which is funny when you talk about the Dead Sea Scrolls. Right. And these things are being brought out, discovered, and they're just talking about the stories in the Bible, and the Christians are grabbing this s*** and running like, hey, a different book is talking about the same stories that took place in the Bible. What? And it's like, oh, my God. If you guys look at the text, you'll find out that the Bible was written using these texts, not the other way around. Not the other way around. It's not that two different groups of people saw the same events and wrote about them. It's that the Bible is based on these books who are based on those.

Cristina: Books, who are based on those other books who are based on those other books.

Jack: Like, and so the Christians are like a second. No, it's the same. It's the first version of the book you're reading?

Cristina: Yes, it's the first draft.

Jack: Yeah, it's the first draft. Well, you're like, wow, different. No, it's not different. It's the same book, but in.

Cristina: For the Dead. For the Dead Sea Scrolls. How can they read those? Is it even possible?

Jack: It's in Hebrew.

Cristina: Okay. So they can translate it somehow. Okay.

Jack: I mean, it's.

Cristina: I don't know how old they are. No, I didn't know it was still a common language that those were written in.

Jack: Oh, yeah, yeah, they were in Hebrew.

Cristina: Hasn't that language changed since then?

Jack: Yeah, but the language is still pretty, like, used pretty common. It's kind of widespread. And you can just ask somebody to read it to you. Like, the difference between Old English and now is hearing somebody talk about it. But if you were to read it, you can still pick up on what they're saying.

Cristina: Yeah, but it makes me. It reminds me of that story of that someone went through the Bible and then changed everything for other words to tell a whole new story where the Bible is actually about aliens and their experiment with humans and they were using the Hebrew language and giving different meanings, but it's the same word. But I guess that word has multiple meanings, so you can just change it to whatever you want it to mean, as long as it's the word. Because that word could mean. You know what I mean?

Jack: Okay, I know exactly what you're talking about and who you're talking about. I forget his name, but I know what you mean. And in the case that you're currently talking about the Bible being the story about aliens or whatever, out of the two possibilities that we're faced with, either say the Bible is being Literal? Well, in assuming the Bible is telling real events that were of supernatural proportions, at least us.

Cristina: Okay. Yeah.

Jack: Whether it be powers or science, the latter seems more likely because the words that they have in the time that the words were being used and written actually align more with the guy's argument about it being associated with foreignness and aliens as opposed to gods and perfection. So it's more likely that what they meant was aliens. That is fact.

Cristina: But I'm assuming no one's going to read those scrolls in using that way.

Jack: Of thinking, because they're already going to say that. Well, at least if they're Christian, they're going to look at it. Or Hebrew or anybody who believes in the religions of Jehovah.

Cristina: Yeah, they're going to translate it using those words that they're familiar with.

Jack: Yeah, the translation has to fit. It's the confirmation bias you're going to go in with. This is what it should sound like. So anything I read I gotta fix for being like this.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Versus reading it and knowing how the words were used at the time that it was written. So what they most likely mean which the guy you're talking about wrote a book explaining how the words were used previously.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And how when they were written in the Bible, there's no way they could have meant water when they meant the heavens or something like that.

Cristina: Yeah, he gets really into it.

Jack: Yes, I can remember his name. Name. But yeah, I know who you're talking about. In any case, it's always more likely than that there are aliens, than that there is a divine being who designed anything and everything somehow existing from outside reality.

Cristina: There can't be something outside. I don't be.

Jack: That doesn't make any sense. In fact, the idea that something or.

Cristina: They can be, but it can't be inside too.

Jack: The idea that something even thinks is an idea from within reality.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Oh, that's how complicated it is. Even the concept of perception, awareness. Consciousness is inside is a concept that exists within reality. For anything to have awareness and make everything else, you would have needed awareness to begin with, which is impossible to have it before reality in which that came to be exists.

Cristina: What?

Jack: So there could not be just definitively there could not be a God based on that. At least not an omniscient everywhere, all the time God, No. And the best we have for that is still from within reality. Which is to say, how did our universe come to be? And that's where we have nothingness observed by consciousness. We still don't know where the place where those two Things are is we know it's within. I guess it's reality.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Even if there's no universe, there's no space, time. There is just nothingness and consciousness. Those things still exist within reality.

Cristina: Can we prove that there's nothing? No, we can't.

Jack: No, it would be impossible.

Cristina: This is a question. You have to ask it. I don't know. I know there's no answer to that, but it's just.

Jack: Yes. The answer is there is nothing. There's as much nothing as there is something. They're both infinite.

Cristina: But can you prove it? How do you prove that nothing's there?

Jack: By proving that something is here.

Cristina: And that's enough.

Jack: It's easy. In order for something to be in a place, there must have been nothing there first. Otherwise the something could not go there because there's already something there. You need nothing there first in order to put this new something there. Okay, well, because we are here, there must have been nothing here.

Cristina: Because we are here, there must have been nothing.

Jack: Because if there was something here, we could not be here.

Cristina: Yes. That is so complicated.

Jack: Nothingness has to be just as likely as somethingness. But we can never experience a moment of nothingness, difference.

Cristina: Mmm. We cannot experience nothing that is complicated. But that's more about death than anything. That's complicated. Because then what is after life? Yeah.

Jack: More perception. Definitely.

Cristina: You don't think there could be a nothing?

Jack: We couldn't experience it no matter what we would continue to experience. That's why I don't fear death.

Cristina: Because you have to experience something.

Jack: Because the however long you experience nothing for, you'll be unaware that you experienced nothing. The example is always you die or you're dying and the light is slowly fading. And then the second it goes to black, a split second goes by, and then the light starts expanding again. And then you just pop out of somebody's v*****.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So you never stopped perceiving? Yeah, there was just more of the same. Or you die. You're dying. You're on your deathbed. You're an old man. You're about to leave your soul, you're about to leave your body. Everything is dying. The lights are going out. And then suddenly everything starts to fractalize and starts to break apart.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And then there's just a bunch of parts everywhere. And you're still witnessing the part, but the concept of you is gone. But you're still watching the people who were your family slowly decompose into nothing that looks like just parts. You watch your body. You're Surrounded by decompose into nothing. And now you're still here, perceiving this soup of something.

Cristina: Do you? Huh? I guess. If that's true. And then you just. You're just born afterwards. Is it. Are you in the nothing? You wouldn't be born.

Jack: No, the previous scenario. You're born. In this scenario. You've died and crossed to some other plane of existence. Smooth. It was seamless. There was never here's space with nothing in it. Yeah, that never happened. You just went from, hey, you're sitting across from me. Christina, I'm on my deathbed. You come and you visit me next to my deathbed on my last moment. And you're like, hey, it was real fun to do this show with you, but you're dying. And I'm like, yeah. And then I see you. Slowly as the light goes away, you start to get fuzzier and fuzzier. And then you become so fuzzy. You're blending into the wall now because it's also fuzzy. Before long, everything is sort of uniform, but not. This is a mix of colors and stuff. And I also forget in that same progression, slowly start forgetting more and more of who I am until there is no me, There is no you. There's nothing. I don't remember anything. Because remembering is irrelevant here. Yeah, but I'm still perceiving. I've not stopped perceiving. Now I'm just seeing this mesh of colors. And now I start to decipher what this mesh of color means. And thus forming my new reality.

Cristina: That makes sense. Yes, that's probably it. Why wouldn't it be?

Jack: Why wouldn't it be? That's how we were born in the first place. We popped out, everything was a blur of colors. And we started just piecing together what that meant.

Cristina: Yeah, I think that sounds right. Yeah.

Jack: Yeah. And we're like, okay, well, this mixture always means Mom. That mixture is always Mom. That's a chair over there. Some before long. Chair. Table. Mom. Christina. Tv.

Cristina: Red. Blue.

Jack: Red. Blue. Yeah, but then I'll forget all that s*** again.

Cristina: Yes, but there's never nothing.

Jack: Couldn't be. We couldn't perceive nothing. Otherwise it wouldn't be nothing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: The moment we can perceive it, it's something.

Cristina: It's so confusing. It's not confusing, but it is complicated. Yeah.

Jack: It's possible to discuss. Impossible to imagine.

Cristina: Yes. Yes. What's less impossible is the. What's that thing we call now The Force? What are we calling it?

Jack: Yeah, the Force.

Cristina: The Force. Guess what? In. I'm not finished with the story, though. But I'm going to talk about what I've read so far.

Jack: Right.

Cristina: In Prince Lestat, the vampires, they're not just vampires. There's a starting point, if you remember from part two. There was the first vampire, but there was something that made the first vampire.

Jack: Right.

Cristina: It was some type of creature. I don't know what it is. When I picture the creature, it looks like the thing from Fullmetal Alchemist. The little black thing with an eye from the gate. From the Gate. Well, I don't know. But he was also in the real world with their dad. He had him in a little thing.

Jack: And pride was also made out of him.

Cristina: Oh, yes, yes. Well, that thing, he's in Prince Lest. That. Well, not. He's not in that story. Or maybe he is. I'm not sure. But whatever, he was in the First Vampire, and that's how the vampires were made. And in the newest book, there is a problem with creating vampires now. And a vampire's theory is that this thing that made the first vampire, it's. It's kind of like in all the vampires. And it's reached its limit of how far it could reach with its powers or whatever. Like it has a limit. It reminds me, though, of the Force and how we say if you use the Force too much. I don't remember what happens if you talk about how it's bad to use the Force too much. The dark side is bad to abuse it. Yes, it's bad to abuse it because.

Jack: Whatever, it'll turn on you.

Cristina: It'll turn. Yeah. Yeah.

Jack: You're weakening it or something.

Cristina: Yeah. So I feel like this story is pretty much following the rules, that all these other things that are like that are following.

Jack: That makes me think of the movie, the one. The one where Jet Li went around killing all the other versions of himself and every one of them he would kill would spread that one's energy amongst all the other versions of him.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And then where there were two, they were so inhumanly strong, they're superhuman.

Cristina: Yeah. Because that power has a limit.

Jack: Yes. So if that's what's happening in the story, then it's possible. If they just start killing vampires, the vampires who have those powers will get stronger progressively.

Cristina: Well, they get stronger progressively just by aging, too.

Jack: Yes, but if they murdered all the vampires.

Cristina: Well, there's maybe. I don't know what's happening in this world. But my guess is this creature is so tired of all the vampires that are around, it's trying to convince vampires, the older ones the strong ones to murder other vampires, all the weak ones because there's so many weak vampires. And I guess he's sick and tired of all these vampire. He's sick and tired of sharing this energy because it is him. And so he's getting these older vampires to kill them off because he is the energy. And I guess he's tired or he's being wasted and he's sick of it. So he needs some of them to die.

Jack: Right.

Cristina: Does that make sense? I feel like it makes. I don't know if that's what's happening, but that's what I think is happening.

Jack: It would make sense. Yeah. You did release some of the power and spread yourself less than.

Cristina: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jack: Makes sense.

Cristina: But I wonder if the force works like that too.

Jack: Possible.

Cristina: Like in the flash. It does seem like that.

Jack: Yes. There is the amount of force to go around. And if too many people are using it then other people don't have access to it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It is completely possible. Yes.

Cristina: It's interesting they all work like that.

Jack: Because you have to think that the universal energy that exists everywhere is being used by everybody. There is a sort of amount of individuals that could be tuned in at any one moment.

Cristina: There is an amount that there's.

Jack: Okay. Most people probably use the energy small time.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So if somebody's using a f*** ton of it somewhere in the universe, 99.99% of everything is using fractions of it and doesn't even. Like they can still use it because the chunk free is so big by comparison that that small tiny chunk could still be spread out amongst a whole planet.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: You know like everybody on earth using it at the smallest percentage. A small fraction of the force can use the force at the same time that somebody else where is using 70% of it in one shot. Because that 25 is still a ton of energy.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But now if two creatures or two civilizations decided to use 75% at the same time. We're not advanced enough to do that.

Cristina: No.

Jack: Or we haven't found things like that. And if we did, we could destroy this plan by acc. If somebody had that kind of power. But if somebody does and there's two of them, who knows how often these people are using it. So those people can't.

Cristina: Yeah. That would start a huge problem.

Jack: That would start a huge problem. Now we don't encounter that because we're primitive in every case. Whether it be magic, whether it be science, whatever the case, we're primitive.

Cristina: But if there's something on Earth right now because it reminds me of adrenochrome and towers falling for the blood. And what if that's also involved in.

Jack: It's not enough.

Cristina: It's not enough.

Jack: Small potatoes.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: We're talking even the gods from within Earth, Zeus, Jehovah, these people. Right.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: They could both simultaneously use the energy and it would still not. They could both use as much as they know how. And there would still be energy to go around. And it would still be an insignificant amount because they're still regional. One is from Greek.

Cristina: Yeah. But there was still problems though. But I guess that's because with each other more than. I mean, like in their little groups. There was a bigger problem.

Jack: Yeah, but doesn't. We're talking about the force. It's not causing any force disturbance.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Because they can both use it effectively.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And we haven't drained. Now, if everybody on Earth had the same capacity to use it that Zeus and Jehovah did, would then. That created then. Or are we still talking small potatoes because it's still one planet.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: There's something out there so powerful it took over the Great Void.

Cristina: And how could that be? If there was a limit.

Jack: If there. There is a limit.

Cristina: If there.

Jack: But they were using. And keep in mind how small the Great Void is as compared to the rest of the universe. It's so small. We look and we got to look really far and we see it really small. We just know that it's huge because we still see it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But it's far and tiny. So that took an immense amount of energy.

Cristina: That definitely did. Yeah.

Jack: If somebody did that with raw power, not just science, but using some sort of power.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Can two beings do that? Now we're talking a different scale.

Cristina: Mm. And you think they can do that?

Jack: I think yes. I don't know. Can two at the same time. But also that's such a small amount. Like, how big is the power distribution we're talking about if it's using the entire universe, if the whole universe is using the same energy source.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: How big are we talking? And like, is our universe old enough to even have beings that can wield such exaggeration? Or has it been.

Cristina: It seems like we can't all share it though. Or if we're looking at like full metal alchemists. They needed to kill people to. To share it between the powerful people that are using or whatever. Or was that not needed for the energy to be used? I feel like it related.

Jack: No, because they are using something different. They use energy to make transmutation. You Mean philosopher stones.

Cristina: Okay, that's.

Jack: No, it's the same exchange. If every one transmutation required a death.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Right. Then the philosopher's stone is cashing in your deaths ahead of time to then use the power later.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Same concept.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: It's just. When are you paying?

Cristina: Yeah. That is so complicated. That's. That's. That show is just so dark. But there is a limit. But there's no way to reach that limit.

Jack: There is a way to reach that limit. We just don't know what.

Cristina: We can't reach it.

Jack: Yeah. And we can't fathom what would there should be. Because there is a limit.

Cristina: Has someone reached that limit?

Jack: Probably not. What is the lifetime of God? What. What. What numbers would we give if he can outlive our entire universe? In fact, our entire universe is the fraction of a second to God. But he lives 100 years his time. So if a fraction of a second. Right. We hadron collider. We smash two atoms together. Boom. The conditions of the universe. A whole civilization happens in that small space. A whole universe happens. Bunch of galaxies, bunch of planets, a bunch of civilizations. 50 trillion years go by and then that universe dies. Great. Sweet. Okay, fine. Universe is dead after trillions. That was a fraction of a second. How long in comparison to that fraction of a second will I. Is my time if I'm 100 years old and that's I'm just die at 100 normal a** f****** life. But that I'm the guy who smashed the two atoms together and made that. So in that timescale, we're now in the universe that is going to expire in 50 trillion years. But all of this has been a moment God doesn't even notice is happening because it's happening so quick.

Cristina: Yes, but we're somehow using his energy or.

Jack: Well, my point would be at that scale, what is a minute? What is a day? Could we fathom what a second is?

Cristina: No.

Jack: A second is long as h***. A second could be the entire. Actually this whole universe exists in less than one second of God.

Cristina: Okay. Okay.

Jack: If we convert that to energy.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: There's nothing like it's. It could expire.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: In a normal. God is going to die in a.

Cristina: But it took a lot of energy to make us, though.

Jack: It took such insignificant energy to run the hadron colliders that we still have everything else in the planet working simultaneously.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Do you see?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Just to smash two atoms together and create a whole universe. It took so little energy, most people don't even know that Machine exists.

Cristina: All right?

Jack: Nobody noticed anything happened.

Cristina: Everyone feared for the worst.

Jack: Nobody knew. That's all just stories from people who were looking into it.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Nobody knew what was happening. Oh, and it's happened many times.

Cristina: Yeah. Oh, those are all fake stories.

Jack: So in these cases, one fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a second to a hundred years. So to a full life amount of energy, what is our universe? Insignificant?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it's easy to waste the energy. Something could use it. Is there anything within here who could use it? I don't. F***.

Cristina: Probably not. Is adrenochrome the closest we get to that, though?

Jack: Adrenochrome? Isn't that. Is adrenochrome connected to the Force?

Cristina: I don't know. That's why I'm wondering. I'm wondering if it is.

Jack: No, I think adrenochrome is a shortcut.

Cristina: To what?

Jack: To not have to use the Force, but acquire all the same things. Okay. Think of what Alan Watt says. You could meditate into an entirely new perspective of viewing the world and understanding reality. Or you could f****** take acid. Like acid is good to show you the window. But learn how to get there on your own.

Cristina: Oh, okay. It's better to learn how to get there.

Jack: It's not better, it's just a different way. He suggests learn together on your own. But who cares if you can get there?

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The point being that while we have. Actually, I have an idea. I lost my train of thought.

Cristina: We talk about how adrenochrome is a shortcut to blind.

Jack: Oh, yeah. Then adrenochrome would in any case be the asset. It's like the Force is the way there, but not everybody's connected to it. Not everybody has a He man sword or Power Ranger powers or f****** this or that.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Jedi mind tricks or whatever. Sometimes you just take adrenochrome and you get there.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And it's instant versus a bunch of Pragues and studying monks can get there. Spend their whole lives, mind you, instantly when you meet them, what the f*** is happening?

Cristina: Or take adrenochrome.

Jack: Take Adrenochrome.

Cristina: No practice.

Jack: But also the same things would happen. People who practice and learn how to use the things, are they out there causing trouble?

Cristina: Trouble? No, never. But they don't have withdrawal, which I guess is a good.

Jack: Yes, that's another good.

Cristina: That's a good thing.

Jack: But also they're not out there causing. Because they learn how to wield it. Yeah, but if you got the power overnight. Do you know how to wield it? No, you just got crazy abilities. It's the same idea of when we were having that episode about the mass shooting maybe two, three seasons ago, and me and Blake were talking about our guns bad and our people bad. And it's like, no, not really. Yes, people die all the time. But if you gave everybody a gun overnight. Well, actually, we're talking about the Internet particularly, which was. Is the Internet evil? It's like, no, the Internet is just a brand new creation. And we don't know what the f*** we're doing.

Cristina: We definitely don't know what we're doing with the Internet or with guns.

Jack: With the Internet or with guns. Well, we know how to use guns. More guns really don't cause that much of a problem.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: If you gave everybody a gun, we kind of get it. But before anybody knew what a gun. This is how I proved my point. Before anybody knew what a gun was. If suddenly I invented guns today and I just happened to make enough of them to give everybody a gun. A lot of people are gonna die.

Cristina: Yes. No one knew about what it was.

Jack: Yeah, a lot of people are gonna die because we don't know what the f*** we're doing. Even after we see a couple of people dying, people can be. Well, I could defend my house with her. I could do this without. People are gonna shoot each other because we don't know what the f*** we're doing. Same goes for the Internet. We don't know what the f*** we're doing. We're just screaming at each other because we don't know what the f*** we're doing.

Cristina: Yes. Because they're complicated. Because people shoot themselves.

Jack: Yeah, but those are accidents. That. That doesn't happen often.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: That's probably the. In Earth history, every year, maybe 10 people shoot themselves by accident.

Cristina: Whoa.

Jack: Like, it's not worth the mention.

Cristina: Okay, but it happened.

Jack: Yes, but also some dude fell upstairs. That's also something that happened once. Like, it's fine once in a.

Cristina: Like, I don't know, just once.

Jack: Weird things happen. Never. Look at the anecdotal anomaly that doesn't fall into the act.

Cristina: Like the lady who killed her husband with a squirrel or something.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Like when the only one time in a lifetime.

Jack: Yeah. Like, it's pointless to be like, well, that one thing happened. Like, who gives a s***? It'll never happen again.

Cristina: Yeah. Unless we got to worry about people trying to kill other people with squirrels. That becomes a thing.

Jack: Those circumstances are so highly specific.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: They don't matter.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Yeah. With all that comes the equivalent of the Force, and we can't do that. We. With something we don't know how to use, which is how we end up with people just having withdrawal, desperately trying to get as much adrenochrome as possible, doing weird things and abusing their power. Meanwhile, the people who practice to get to the same place don't give a. Yeah, they're just enjoying it.

Cristina: Yeah. Cool.

Jack: Interesting point, now that I think about it, though.

Cristina: What?

Jack: Thinking about Hitler and his army and Jehovah and his army and Zeus and his army, essentially. Maybe the same person, whatever this army was, was definitely tuned into the Force themselves, wasn't it? Not Hitler's army.

Cristina: Well, we don't know for sure.

Jack: But like Jehovah's army, just humans, not even demigods, just humans who tuned into the Force and collectively, quite some power. Not only is the leader, the most powerful, most ruthless, most dangerous one, and the one we all know about and refer to the rest of the movement as, but all the other people also, they learn and they practice and they studied together.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So they could know how to use the Force and with that, use the power to suppress everyone else.

Cristina: Yeah. That's so weird because I was thinking about giants and how, like, what if they're the ones using adrenochrome because they're doing weird things, too, besides that they're giant. They're usually doing the weird same things that the gods are doing. They have a different title and they look different, obviously, but they're doing pretty much the same things. They're kind of equal.

Jack: What do you mean by doing the same things?

Cristina: Like, they can do the same powers or they have the same strength or whatever. You want to describe it, they turn into birds. They turn into birds. Like, there's no difference except for their title.

Jack: So you're saying God is a title to a type of human?

Cristina: Yes, they're calling themselves gods, and we call them gods because they call themselves gods and they call themselves giants. So we do the same.

Jack: Maybe they didn't call themselves any of that and we called them all that.

Cristina: Okay. But they were still both. Like, what's the difference of the two groups?

Jack: There's no difference. It's just two different, like, ethnic groups at most using the Force, Adrenochrome or the Force. Or in any case, maybe one was using one and the other was using the other. It looks like outside of religion, people aim towards other means. Witchcraft. You don't need blood for f****** witchcraft unless you're doing black magic, which is circling right back to the same s***.

Cristina: You just reminded me. God needs blood. So they're the ones doing a dream of Chrome. If anyone's doing adrenochrome, it's the gods.

Jack: Yeah, well, again, like what I'm saying, anybody outside of religion is doing magic. They're doing meditation. They're doing.

Cristina: They're using the forest.

Jack: They're using the forest. Anybody within religion, it's a whole different story. Using adrenochrome, they're cheating. They don't have the natural ability. Although they go around telling everybody. Everyone else is using the bad thing, but everybody else is doing what? Using nature.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So a quick example would be, right, you go to church and they tell you we're going to chant together, and you are going to pretend to drink blood and pretend to eat flesh. Sit down, shut up and listen to me. Good guys, according to themselves. And then they'll point at the other side and be like, those are the bad guys. What are the bad guys doing? Stay in touch with nature.

Cristina: Yes, that's what I was going to say. Instead of listening to what someone else is saying, you're listening to nature and hearing what it tells you.

Jack: Yeah. Be introspective. Ask what's right and what's wrong. Question everything. The. The story of the apple. Why is God so dedicated to not having Adam and Eve eat the apple? It's like, why don't you want them to. You made the perfect things. You don't want them to have knowledge.

Cristina: No.

Jack: Why don't you want them to have not? Of course, chances are he found that f****** garden.

Cristina: I don't think he ate that apple.

Jack: I don't think God was a. God wasn't allowed to eat that.

Cristina: He wasn't allowed to. He was like, you guys can't have it because I can't have it.

Jack: I think that's exactly what happened. I think God was not allowed to eat the apple. And he is an angry and jealous God according to himself.

Cristina: Oh, crap.

Jack: So if he was angry that he couldn't and jealous that they could. No, f*** it. My God doesn't talk to them. I'm not gonna let them eat either.

Cristina: Except that they. Because he's not perfect. Like, whoever made him. Or not as perfect, you know, whatever.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: They could not listen to him, which he has to, I guess, listen to whoever made him.

Jack: Yes. He can't actually eat the apple. There's nothing he could do to eat that apple. Yeah, but they could.

Cristina: But they could. Yes. And they did What? That makes sense.

Jack: God doesn't have all the information. It's possible Adam and Eve had more information. Yep.

Cristina: Whoa. Do you think they shared it with us? Did we bury that information?

Jack: No, I think we actively suppress that information. I think religion does a pretty good effort of trying to suppress the real information that's out there, while Adam and Eve knew the real information that was out there. But we cut their stories short and remove what they're saying a lot of the time.

Cristina: This is because there is no story. They just gave birth to a bunch of children. The end.

Jack: Yeah. We don't talk about the fact that they knew everything.

Cristina: Yeah. Did they teach their children? Yeah. I don't know. That's interesting. What if God couldn't eat the apple?

Jack: It's doubtful that he could. Yeah, he probably never eat the apple. He probably didn't make that garden. That cartoon is just his home. It's his fishbowl.

Cristina: It's his fishbowl.

Jack: It's his fishbowl to where something greater is just watching God.

Cristina: But then when he kicked them out, what did he kick them out into?

Jack: The world.

Cristina: The world? Is that inside his fishbowl?

Jack: No, he kicked them out of the.

Cristina: Fishbowl where he lives.

Jack: He lives. God can't leave the fishbowl. That's why he's obligated to do other things, to communicate. For whatever reason, Lucifer and Jehovah are bound to their respective locations because they have to do other things to communicate. They have to send a physical. Not physical, but like an energy based thing. Talk to you through a bush. Talk to you through your dreams. Send the messenger angel because he cannot leave.

Cristina: Oh, crap. He is trapped wherever he is.

Jack: God is in prison.

Cristina: Yes. He's in prison. No. I don't know.

Jack: He's trapped wherever he is. He has messengers for days and he has tricks for days. I can talk to you through any number of. Why don't you come down?

Cristina: I'll blind you.

Jack: He's got excuses. Oh, like, bro, you've destroyed the earth many times.

Cristina: Doesn't matter.

Jack: You don't care. No, but he's trapped wherever he is. It's a fishbowl.

Cristina: It's a fishbowl. Yes.

Jack: And it's probably the garden.

Cristina: But is that fishbowl near here? In here? In this reality?

Jack: Could be. Maybe. Could be a pocket dimension.

Cristina: A pocket dimension.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: What?

Jack: And it could be that in kicking people out, he sent them out to the earth where they weren't meant to be. Maybe that's why we're destroying Earth. We weren't meant to be here. We were all supposed to be in this garden that would grow proportionately with the number of people that are in there for all of infinity. The garden would always be the right size for the number of people there. Yes, but the planet doesn't grow by itself.

Cristina: No. That's interesting.

Jack: We sent out people who were never meant to die in the first place. Also in the garden. They were immortal.

Cristina: They were immortal. Okay.

Jack: Ate the apple and then were kicked out and given mortality. I don't think that's how that story really goes. I think as long as you're in the garden, you're mortal, you're immortal, and as long as you're outside of the garden, you're mortal. Maybe God is too old to leave the garden. He might die instantaneously. It's like if Dorian Gray looked at his picture 200 years later.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: He would immediately age to the age he should have been.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Maybe God would immediately age to the age it should be and die instantaneously.

Cristina: If he leaves the garden. Whoa.

Jack: If he leaves the garden, the garden is keeping him immortal.

Cristina: Mm. What? I wonder if there's other magical creatures there, though. I mean, not magical, but talkative, I guess. Like the talking snake.

Jack: The talking snake, which is also in the Bible. Not even really Lucifer. I don't know what that's about.

Cristina: It's a snake, and it talks. Were there other animals or the talking birds? Yeah.

Jack: Interesting. Interesting. It is fascinating to think about that. That maybe the source of his mortality, immortality, is the garden.

Cristina: Like the first story, though, of Lilith. Was she kicked out of the garden? Was she still living in the garden? I don't know, because she was still able to rape Adam and stuff, but.

Jack: I don't know, man. Now, the question here would be God trying to make another God. He's managing everything with messengers from within the fishbowl. So he sends messengers, tries to navigate how things happen, tricks people into doing things, causes tragedies, and once in a while, attacks directly.

Cristina: Yes. To attacks Earth.

Jack: Yeah. But he's doing all of this from the fishbowl, which is why we never see him.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: The closest thing he got was that clever trick of Jesus. He's like, well, I found the way to convert my energy into this other being that's sort of me, but not me. But he can be outside without me dying in here. And I can see through his eyes and I can move him around, but I'm gonna be limited in information and limited in ability.

Cristina: It feels like he's already really limited in many ways.

Jack: Compared to us, he's not. Yeah, he's way more free than we could ever be. But then Jesus is human, so, like, he's limited if you're comparing him to omniscience.

Cristina: Yeah, but, like, as far as humans.

Jack: Go, he's not limited by anything.

Cristina: Yeah. And.

Jack: And then there's Jesus is way out of the bubble until Jesus dies, until he gets killed. Because he's not infinitely powerful, that version of him is still mortal. It was the only way he could get outside of the bubble without him leaving the bubble.

Cristina: Personally, do you think he's gotten out of the bubble after that, though? Why would he just stop at Jesus?

Jack: Maybe he hasn't. Maybe he hasn't. Maybe he's many different people throughout time. This is the only way to experience anything.

Cristina: Yeah. Think he brought anyone back into that bubble? He kicked people out. And we know about those stories, but who says he hasn't kidnapped people? Unless that's what those stories of people going, there was a guy who just walked into heaven. I don't know who he was, but he walked up the stairs to heaven or something like that. Is he in the garden right now?

Jack: Heaven is not the garden.

Cristina: Heaven's not the garden. Where's God? He's not in heaven. Then.

Jack: God is not in heaven.

Cristina: He's in the garden.

Jack: God is in the garden.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Heaven is some other realm.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Like h*** is probably just a shadow realm.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And we call it some other crap, but ironically, angels come from there.

Cristina: So heaven and h*** could be the same place.

Jack: No, I think the liars that we know as Jehovah and his army, who say we're not only omniscient, but like, we're the good guys. And it's like you're the only guy who's drinking blood, so maybe you're not. Maybe the people who are like, go be one with nature are definitely on the right track. And you calling them the devil and then going and drinking blood, maybe you're wrong. But chances are more reason to go back into the shadow realm that the garden is located inside the shadow realm.

Cristina: The garden's in the shadow realm. But you don't think heaven.

Jack: It's already in a different plane.

Cristina: Do you think heaven's not a place then?

Jack: I don't know.

Cristina: What do you think? That's a lie.

Jack: It's possible that either heaven or h*** is the shadow realm.

Cristina: Okay. Because I feel like it has both creatures. So it's most likely that all those locations are the same location.

Jack: It could be that all the other s*** is the Shadow Realm.

Cristina: Yeah. So. Oh, back to the Shadow Realm.

Jack: And in the Shadow Realm, Somewhere in the Shadow Realm, this weird mazy confusing. Every direction leads to every direction mass there is the garden.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Which God cannot leave.

Cristina: Except wait, I just remembered. He's a beaver here right now.

Jack: You're right. He's a beaver on this side. Well, he's actually a beaver groundhog. And he isn't even over here.

Cristina: Well, we don't know where he is.

Jack: We don't know. He could be a groundhog on this side. Or he's over there and he manifests as a groundhog on this side.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Because his actual form is a groundhog. If he's over here, he's pretending, but he's over there. And people fearing for their weather conditions and season report for their crops. And we're going to be broke this year. That fear allows him to manifest and talk to them.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So he could just be a being from the Shadow Realm.

Cristina: He could be okay. Yes. So the best choice is just to wait then. Just gotta be patient for him to pop up. Because we know when and where.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: So we'll get that groundhog.

Jack: Definitely. It's pretty interesting.

Cristina: That is. And if we somehow miss the groundhog wasn't there. I keep saying beaver, but I'm pretty sure in another country it's the talking beaver that gives them the weather. I think it was like different animals in different locations, but they're all around the world. The groundhog is just the closest one to us, so it'd be easiest to get him.

Jack: Fair. And I'm assuming every one of those regions has different gods as well. And different gods pretend to be different things as well as different kinds of ghosts and entities of those natures. Which goes to show that gods are just demigods who happen to inhabit certain regions of the Earth. Yeah, that's fascinating. And as for groundhogs and s***, My voice is almost recovered after he got bitten by that stupid f****** groundhog.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Soon I'll be back at a hundred percent. I can almost do high notes. Almost.

Cristina: So what are you right now, 75?

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Awesome.

Jack: I'm getting there. I'm getting there.

Cristina: Everyone's worried about you. There's like hundreds of thank you letters. I don't know why. Thank you.

Jack: Yes. Many, many thank you letters.

Cristina: It's really confusing.

Jack: Yes. They all heard I was hurt and they're all just thanking me.

Cristina: I think they think you're dying. Like this is it for you.

Jack: They think this is it.

Cristina: Yeah. So they're like, thank you for host. You're gonna be soon replaced by you again. But we want to thank you for the time you've been with us.

Jack: Yeah. It won't matter. They won't tell the difference.

Cristina: They won't tell the difference. No. So. But whatever they. They consider it if this is your passing away moment. But you're saying it's not.

Jack: I'm saying it's not. But thank you for all the thank you letters that we've received over the last couple of days following the previous episode where I talked about getting bitten by the groundhog that was just a normal non radioactive groundhog.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So thank you for all the thank you letters that we've gotten. It's great that that happened, I guess. You're welcome.

Cristina: You're welcome.

Jack: Welcome to all of you.

Cristina: Because this is it. I mean, this is the show. That's what you said in the beginning. This is the show.

Jack: This is the show. Yeah, it's the show. Anyways, so. Yeah. Hope you guys have some ideas or thoughts on anything we discussed right now. It'd be interesting to hear what you guys have to say about this. Is it making more sense? Are we reflecting defining what God is that we unmutty the Bible by saying that God is a groundhog from the shadow realm that exists inside of a fishbowl dimension that is known as the Garden of Eden and that humans are.

Cristina: Have the force and have adrenochrome as the shortcut force?

Jack: Yes, yes. We're just clarifying all the things. You guys know, you guys know how we do. We give you information. A little bit of good, a little bit of bad, some of the do's and don'ts. And this is my. Before you buy.

Cristina: What are they buying?

Jack: I don't know. Isn't that what that guy's friends, what is it? Some of the good, some of the bad. You know how we do. Before you buy. Anyways, yeah. I hope you guys enjoyed this conversation. If you guys want more conversations of this nature, there are many. And the most recent episodes we've been sort of circling these topics, refining them. That way we know what our next steps are going to be. And you can find more episodes like that or like this or like any thing. Essentially, we cover everything under the sun. You can find that on Greathoughts.

Cristina: We have hundreds of episodes.

Jack: Yes. You can find that on greatthoughts.info on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or anywhere you get your podcasts.

Cristina: And you can reach us on Facebook. Twitter, Instagram and TikTok. UsConvopod.

Jack: Yes. And remember to subscribe, rate, and review the show, because that's always great to hear what you guys are thinking. So please go. If you're listening right now, if you made it this far, go review. Go review. You heard this far and you haven't left a review, go review and tell us what you genuinely thought. Take a moment, do it right now. It'll be awesome.

Cristina: And then we'll have to include an emoji.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: For this episode. What is it gonna be?

Jack: I don't know. Put a smiley of some sort.

Cristina: The one with the hearts.

Jack: No, put a poop emoji.

Cristina: Poop emoji. Okay.

Jack: There you go.

Cristina: Put a poop emoji, a true, honest review of the show, and a poof.

Jack: And a poop emoji at the true, honest review of the show, the right amount of stars that you believe we deserve, and then a poop emoji. Go do that now.

Cristina: Yes. And let someone who might like the show know about it.

Jack: Yes. Word of mouth, incredibly powerful. And we're refining the meaning of science, religion, philosophy and everything. We're making it one. So, you know, tell people. Tell people who are trapped.

Cristina: They have to know.

Jack: Yeah. Tell people who are trapped in one of those systems so they can be trapped in all of them with us.

Cristina: Yes. Wow. This has been the Just Conversation podcast. Take nothing personal, and thanks for listening.

Jack: Bye. It's very complicated.

Cristina: What made you think of that, though?

Jack: I don't know. I was just. It's just an im. I don't know what the f*** I was even doing, but the images popped into my head. I'm like, how weird and fat. I've been thinking about it for, like, a week straight.

Cristina: What?

Jack: Yeah. I'm like, this is so trippy.

Cristina: Is the Blue's Clues thing trippy, too, or not as trippy?

Jack: Holy sh. I didn't even connect those dots. I didn't think about it. But, yeah, it's kind of crazy. Blue skirt, dude, we can, too. Then they hop into a f******. But they live in a jumbled f****** mess.

Cristina: They do.

Jack: Weird to assume the coyote and the Roadrunner exists in, like, a relative reality.

Cristina: Or whatever, but the weird thing about them is that they can't normally jump into pictures. They have to announce that they're using Blue's powers of jumping into pictures.

Jack: What the f*** is Blue? Blue's some, like, mythical creature with powers, right?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Like his.

Cristina: Blue, like the roadrunner. They have special powers.

Jack: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. The Roadrunner is like Wile E. Coyote sometimes. Wile E. Coyote can break the laws of physics, too. It could break reality in his own instances. While Blue seems to kind of be like an omniscient God in his world or some s***, where he can however he wants. He's kind of like Deadpool.

Cristina: Good morning. Good morning.

Jack: The Just Conversation podcast is hosted by.

Cristina: Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by greatthoughts.info art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth.

Jack: McAllister, with social media managed by Amber Black.

Rambling 122: Leprechauns and Other Fairies

DSan-Patricio.jpg

What creatures remained in Ireland after St. Patrick was done with it? And why did they stick around? Dissecting the concept of fairies on this episode!

Story:
The Duo dive into leprechauns and fairies in general in order to understand the true complex nature of what the aftermath of the St. Patrick Massacre was. A desolate, monster infested wasteland is the least of the problem for the people of Ireland. It gets worse when spirits are introduced!

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed

  • St. Patrick Demon Hunter
  • Jehovah the Demi-God
  • Sprites
  • Peter Dinklage
  • Navi
  • Tricksters
  • Giant Rat Fairy
  • Banshee
  • Succubus
  • Jeepers Creepers

Our Links:

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod

Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod

Instagram - https://instagram.com/justconvopod


+Transcript

Cristina: This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean? Welcome to Just Conversation, the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideals in childish ways. I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And I'm Jack.

Cristina: And if you haven't yet, remember to hit that subscribe button to get get notified the second new episodes are released.

Jack: Yes, and also, this show is most enjoyable with a listening partner, so be sure to find somebody to make your listening partner, regardless of who they are, regardless of where they're from, regardless of. Even if you saw them on the street, casually, as they were walking, you point at them and you tell them, hey, you're my listening partner.

Cristina: And what if they walk away?

Jack: Well, then you resort to other means of getting that person who you've chosen and thus must be the one.

Cristina: They must be the one.

Jack: You chose them now. They are the one. They are the one.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Yeah. That's how it goes. So the world works?

Cristina: You just make them the one?

Jack: You make them the one.

Cristina: Is it like love at first sight?

Jack: Yeah. You force them to be the one.

Cristina: The one.

Jack: The one.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: That's your listening partner.

Cristina: That's not creepy.

Jack: No, no, it's very normal. People do it all the time.

Cristina: Mm. Guess what holidays coming up.

Jack: What holiday?

Cristina: St. Patrick's Day. Our favorite saint.

Jack: Yes, that's the OG saint. The saint that gets. He. Basically, he's God. He's the only guy God is scared of.

Cristina: He's a God. He's a guy God is scared of. What?

Jack: Yeah. God makes God do whatever he wants, whenever he wants, however he wants, simply because he wants.

Cristina: Yeah, well, God, I guess, isn't the only person afraid of St. Patrick.

Jack: I mean, he makes God scared. I'm sure just by, you know, process of elimination, everybody else should be scared.

Cristina: Yes. And everyone was scared. That's why I found the story, a different story of that he. Of him getting rid of snakes. But it wasn't just snakes that he got rid of. It was snakes and demons.

Jack: Snakes and demons?

Cristina: Yes. And there was this specific demon that didn't want to run away. When he told all the snakes and demons to leave and then they ran, what happened was he told them to leave, I guess. And so they drowned into the ocean. They listened and drowned and died.

Jack: Sweet, but what the f***?

Cristina: Yes. That's how he got rid of them. By murdering them with his words.

Jack: Sounds legit.

Cristina: Yes. And there's this specific one that can't pronounce her name, but in English, we could call her the fire Spitter.

Jack: The fire spitter?

Cristina: Yes. And she's either the devil's mom or all demons. Mom. Mom. Yes. There's two different ideas of what she was besides the fire spitter. That's what I found. It's unsure, right?

Jack: Kind of like vampire hunter D or something.

Cristina: Yes. So she might be the devil's mom. But anyway, when he was getting rid of all the snakes and demons from the island, she decided to hide.

Jack: So she survived for a little while. And she let all her children die.

Cristina: Definitely because she's too busy trying to stay alive.

Jack: It's like, f*** this. Every. Every man for themselves.

Cristina: Yes. So, like, he went on top of a mountain, and he told them to go into the sea and drown, and they did. And then she somehow. I don't know how she managed to escape, but maybe she, like, closed her ears when she saw him on the mountain. Like something bad is about to happen.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: And it did. But he saw her before she could completely hide herself, and he chased her down with the fastest horse Ireland had at the time.

Jack: Faster than de Demons.

Cristina: Yeah, actually faster than demons because he did outrun her while she was running. She was too busy, though, throwing Spitfire into every water. Well, because she thought, oh, this is gonna take forever, and eventually he'll get thirsty and drink water. But he was smart and was like, I'm not going to drink this poisoned water. So he didn't drink the poisoned water, and he just kept going. And then he passed her, of course.

Jack: You mean caught up.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: It wasn't raised. He wasn't like, well, I passed you. You're behind me.

Cristina: Yes. Okay. And then he waited for her. And then when she came, I mean, and then when he saw her, he jumped. He jumped out of his hiding spot and banished her. And then she also drowned into the ocean.

Jack: Sweet. Okay, so everybody died.

Cristina: Yeah, everyone died, but she was the last to die.

Jack: So he's just killer of demons, forcing creatures to commit suicide left and right and sell God. So he controls gods, angels, demons, everything. He's just some sort of overpowered deity that we don't even label a deity. But he's like. He's beyond the demigod.

Cristina: He's. He is the God.

Jack: Like, we have to assume Jehovah is a demigod based on the traits we understand. Jehovah, he's. He has emotions. Yeah, an omniscient God can't have emotions. That. That wouldn't make sense. Right, And God can get jealous, angry, all these things. God needs you to worship. Him. Because he's not. He tells you specifically, worship me. No. Other gods is like, okay, so there's others like you. You're not omniscient. You're not every God all at the same time. You're one of them. Yes, but it seems like the real omniscient God is Saint Patrick. What he had a horse, is faster than demons. He could just will that to happen.

Cristina: Well, they gave it to him.

Jack: Who?

Cristina: I don't. The Ireland people. Yeah.

Jack: It was just a normal. That means it was just a normal horse. They gave him a normal horse.

Cristina: Was the fastest horse.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Like here.

Jack: But to them, fast is different than to him. And he got a horse and it was probably, you know, normal fast.

Cristina: It was like a winner of normal horse races.

Jack: Yeah, exactly. But then he got on the horse.

Cristina: He powered that horse, became the fastest horse.

Jack: Knight Rider type of s***. He got on the horse, the horse flamed. It burst into flames, and it was just leaving a trail of fire.

Cristina: It died that day.

Jack: As soon as he got off it, it just became normal. And it was on fire. Yeah.

Cristina: Yeah, it died.

Jack: But he doesn't care. He kills everything.

Cristina: He kills everything. Well, if you.

Jack: That's why God is like, I'll do whatever you want. Just don't kill me.

Cristina: Because God is just an angel, a demon deity.

Jack: He's a demigod.

Cristina: Okay. So complicated. But what's even more complicated is I tried to find out what a fairy was, right. Because of St. Patrick's Day in Ireland. And they're known for fairies, right?

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: And I'm so confused. I'm so confused. Fairies are so many things, but what they originally were, they were seen as deities. Gods. They were gods.

Jack: Right.

Cristina: But then over time, because Christianity came to the island, they were demoted to stay around so that they wouldn't have to actually get rid of them. Because I guess the Christians actually like these stories, and they're like, wow, they're pretty interesting. But what if they were just creatures, magical creatures instead of gods? Because there can only be one God. So I don't know. Is God stronger than their God if he could turn them into magical creatures?

Jack: It was St. Patrick that did it.

Cristina: It was St. Patrick. Oh, yes. Okay.

Jack: The pioneer. The guy who brought Christianity to Ireland. St Patrick then decided, yeah, I'm a strip you guys of your exaggerated godlike powers. I don't want you to be gods anymore. Now. Now you're just f******. You're gonna be there like the humans. You can be just a different f****** creature.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And then he did that, well, these.

Cristina: Guys were, I guess weren't that powerful anyway because they were the original people living on Ireland.

Jack: So you're telling me Ireland is Olympus?

Cristina: Is Olympus. Once upon a time, maybe like they were able to travel from the other world into Ireland and they loved it so much that they lived there. But then other people wanted Ireland for themselves. They've had many wars trying to defend their home, but they finally lost to St. Patrick. To the Irish people or to the ancestors of the Irish people, one led by St Patrick. Yes, he's a time travel as well. Time traveler as well.

Jack: Are we just to say that St. Patrick's is the real Kratos?

Cristina: Yes, the Kratos, Yes.

Jack: Yeah, he was just the mortal once upon a time. But eventually he killed a God, got all God's powers and used that to manipulate the rest of everything. St. Patrick, the real God of war.

Cristina: Well, from what I understand, these gods that were defeated by the Irish people shrunk themselves. They loved Ireland so much that they decided we'll just be small and live underground.

Jack: And thus the invention of midgets.

Cristina: Close, I guess. Leprechauns. Leprechauns and so many other creatures. Okay. There are so many different types of fairy races. You probably didn't think of them as fairies though. Which are dwarves, elves, gnomes, goblins, brownies and pixies.

Jack: The h*** is a brownie? Is that a racist term?

Cristina: No, it's just another short magical, human like creature thing. Yeah, they're all short magical, human like creature things.

Jack: Okay.

Cristina: Yes. And what I feel like when somebody.

Jack: Says leprechaun, they mean all of these things. Leprechaun is the blanket term? Almost.

Cristina: No. Leprechaun is a type of fairy.

Jack: I get that.

Cristina: Fairy is the blanket term thing.

Jack: Fairies, the blanket term.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Do Westerners say leprechaun and mean fairies and all the other stuff to Western like they mean fairy and fairies, the blanket term to them. When we say fairy, we think Na' Vi from Ocarina of Time.

Cristina: There's no fairy that's like that fairy. We made that up.

Jack: My point is exact.

Cristina: Okay, that's not a thing.

Jack: Westerners say leprechaun and mean all the different kinds of fairies.

Cristina: I don't know. I think we just see leprechauns as leprechauns.

Jack: Right. But if you showed us a different one of those fairies, what would we call it? We would probably call it a leprechaun.

Cristina: Even an elf. If we saw elf or gnome. We know what gnomes are.

Jack: Oh, S***. Okay, there we go. Now we're getting to places.

Cristina: Dwarfs. You know what a dwarf is?

Jack: A dwarf is just a person.

Cristina: No, they're magical little people. They're magical.

Jack: Whoa. So you're telling me Peter Dinklage is a magical fairy?

Cristina: No.

Jack: And that's why he has all these jobs.

Cristina: He's sprinkling has become two different things. Okay.

Jack: He's sprinkling his fairy dust all over people. You're telling me he's unfairly in justly getting these jobs when Wee man should be getting some of them?

Cristina: Look, fairies are complicated. They're very complicated. He may be a fairy because fairies could be every and many things. There's so many words for fairies. You could say fairy, but you can also call them sprites, you can call them spirits, you can call them supernatural entities. You can even call them angels and demons.

Jack: Right? Okay. We've established this in the Shadow Realm episode. For further information, go back there. Listen to that. Get informed.

Cristina: It is so annoying. It's so annoying.

Jack: It is. When I was figuring that out.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: I came across a lot of these problems in which limbo is purgatory, and that is the Shadow Realm, and that is an alternate version of this reality. And that what's there is here and here is there. And it's the same, but different. It has a different name, but it's the same. It's like. Yeah, it's complicated.

Cristina: There was one thing about the other, the other realm that I don't know if you talked about that I think. If you haven't, I just want to mention, though, is that time works different there.

Jack: Probably. The concept of time in itself might be entirely different.

Cristina: Yeah, but, like, for the rare people that have been able to go there and come back, hundreds of years would pass by.

Jack: It depends.

Cristina: It depends.

Jack: It depends. Let's say you get there through some form of astral projection, and you're there as a spirit. Right. Your spirit might be over there hundreds of years, and over here, hundreds of years don't pass. You might come back after being hundreds of years over there and it was only one night's sleep over here.

Cristina: Oh, I read the opposite of.

Jack: Well, that's my point. It depends on the approach that's happening.

Cristina: Oh, okay. All right. So it's. That's as complicated as the word fairy. Okay.

Jack: It's very, very f*****.

Cristina: Yes. But. Okay, so there's the leprechaun, the most famous fairy. Right. Maybe.

Jack: I'd say that other than Navi, she's not a fairy. What the h*** is she. They call her a fairy.

Cristina: That's an American made up creature. So is Tinkerbell. Tinkerbell is not a fairy.

Jack: Well, she's not a fairy by their terms. But then you have to tell me that a Japanese dragon like Shenron and then a Western dragon, that's like a giant lizard, like an iguana, a ginormous iguana with wings that breathes fire, are not both dragons.

Cristina: Okay, well, we're. Right now we're just talking about Irish creatures. Okay. They're not Irish fairies.

Jack: Got you. They're not Irish fairies.

Cristina: Correct. Because this is an Irish episode to celebrate our favorite saint.

Jack: Got you.

Cristina: So. Yeah. So what was it? Navi.

Jack: Navi.

Cristina: Navi. I guess that's a Japanese fairy.

Jack: Yes, but she's not an Irish. And she's specifically a Shinto Japanese fairy.

Cristina: Okay. And then I guess the Americans made. Not the Americans. The English made Tinkerbell.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Okay. But yes, none of these fairies have wings. I guess is one interesting different thing from all the ones that you could think. The ones you mentioned.

Jack: Yeah, you can actually see that in a lot of cultures where there is a shift in there. If we go back to the dragons, the Japanese dragons don't have wings. They're just like floating snake things.

Cristina: I thought it was the Chinese dragon.

Jack: Oh, it's a Chinese dragon. Well, I guess both of them, right? Yeah, they're pretty similar.

Cristina: Okay. The Asian dragons and then.

Jack: Yeah, Asian dragons. There you go. The Asian dragons don't have wings and then the western dragons do. Yeah, the Asian dragons are kind of like a snake, but the western dragons are like a lizard.

Cristina: But they're both huge, I think. Right?

Jack: Yeah, they're both ginormous. Although I believe the Japanese dragon is much bigger. Do they have. Are there any fairy, like any dragon, like fairies without wings and like floating snake thing or. They're all little people.

Cristina: They're all little people. I will talk about. I do want to talk about some other creatures in Ireland that I don't know if they're under the fairy description.

Jack: Interesting. So then tell me which one are the fairies? What? Break them down and explain these to me.

Cristina: Okay, there's. I'm gonna mention like. Okay, there's the leprechaun, of course.

Jack: What's the get up there?

Cristina: He's the lucky fairy, I guess. He's the one with the gold in the end of the rainbow. And you can get it if you catch him. He'll grant you three wishes, but you have to do it quickly because he'll try to trick You. And that would suck.

Jack: Trick you how?

Cristina: Well. Oh, One of the things about these fairies is they're all tricksters. They're all tricksters. I don't know if there's any fairies that aren't tricksters, but they all seem like tricksters. And they're not seen as evil. Trick tricksters evil either. Yes, but some of them do sound evil. Some of them are evil tricksters. Some of them are just regular trolley guys. But the leprechaun seems like the good kind, I guess, of the tricksters. Anyway, there's a story about a guy who caught a leprechaun and he wished to be taken to the gold. And the. And the leprechaun did show him where the tree was, where the gold was hidden. So the man put a marking on the tree and he let go of the leprechaun to find a shovel. But then when he came back, all the trees were marked the same way he marked the tree that he had.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: Yep. Yep.

Jack: So there was no way for him to tell which one it was?

Cristina: Nope. He really messed up on that.

Jack: Yeah, so.

Cristina: So if you get a leprechaun, he shows you the gold, you gotta somehow.

Jack: Get it at that moment.

Cristina: At that moment, yes.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: I wonder if you can waste the wish, though, to have the leprechaun help you get the gold and also to leave you alone.

Jack: I'm sure there's wish rules, otherwise systems would be broken. You could also wish for many wishes if you could do that, you know.

Cristina: Yeah, but could you trust a leprechaun to tell you the rules of the wishes if there are tricksters?

Jack: Well, on the first one, you wish to be told the rules. If you have three wishes. On the second one, if it's not against the rules, then you wish for more wishes. And if it is against the rules, then you didn't waste a wish and instead you asked the leprechaun to help you. Unless that's also against rules.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: In which case you still got two wishes, but I don't know, like, one.

Cristina: Of the other still has to be to show you where the gold is.

Jack: Yes. Okay, fine. So now you know where the gold is. The other one has to be, don't kill me while I take this gold.

Cristina: Don't kill. Well, he might not kill you. He just won't want you to steal his gold. So he's gonna do some other weird thing that probably hurts you, but doesn't murder you. Yeah, he's not evil.

Jack: Don't disrupt me at all.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: While stealing Your gold.

Cristina: Alright. Even though they're not seen as evil, there are some stories where they sound a bit evil. So there's this story about a king who fell asleep on a beach and when he woke up, he found himself being dragged into the sea by three leprechauns.

Jack: To drown.

Cristina: I'm pretty sure to drown him. Maybe he's related to St. Patrick and they're like, we gotta get revenge.

Jack: It could be. Who the h*** knows? Maybe it was St. Patrick, but he.

Cristina: Was able to catch one of them and. And they granted him three wishes in exchange for them to release him.

Jack: And then what was one of the wishes?

Cristina: I don't know. To be released.

Jack: That's it. Guy just got. We got the story of a guy who caught a leprechaun and we don't know what he wished for.

Cristina: He died. It was a lie. They're just trying to cover up that they're evil because there's some. There's stories that differ between whether a leprechaun is harmless or really, really evil. So I guess it depends. I don't know. Some are evil, some aren't. That's what I'm going with.

Jack: There is a literal movie about evil leprechauns, I believe, called Leprechaun.

Cristina: Yeah, it's some weird horror movie series thing.

Jack: Serious. Oh, it's. There's many of them.

Cristina: There's many movies. So many. Like it's like a Freddy versus, you know, a Freddy movie or a Jason movie. It's just like he keeps coming back.

Jack: Oh, is it the same leprechaun?

Cristina: I'm not sure. I think so. It looks the same. Crappy looking version. I've never seen a nice looking leprechaun. Yeah, version, but okay, like Chucky. Who does he ever change his look? It's always the same dude being in a doll, right?

Jack: I think so.

Cristina: That dude is just unlucky. He should just die. His life sucks. I don't know what he's doing. Although everything he's doing in the rest of the movies make no sense because the. In the original movie he was. If he can't get into a child's body in I think a certain amount of time, then he's stuck in the doll's body. So that's it. He's stuck in that body like the rest of the movies don't make any sense of him trying to get into another person's body because he wasted the time. It's over for him.

Jack: Yeah, that's weird.

Cristina: But he still tries. But. And of Course, never does. But even if he managed, it doesn't make sense to the first movie unless they change that in the reboot. But anyway, there are other types of things that are very similar to leprechauns, and one of them is, I guess, he's a lot like a leprechaun. But he loves to drink and he's famous to haunt wine cellars and drink all the wine in there.

Jack: So he's an alcoholic?

Cristina: Basically, yes, he's the alcoholic leprechaun. And he's also described as a trickster and a practical jokester because I guess most leprechauns are. Then there's another leprechaun type fairy which likes to seduce women.

Jack: As a short individual.

Cristina: Yes, he's really good at seducing ladies. He goes to lonely places where I guess they're just like, why? I just want to fall in love. And then he comes and then they're like, whoa, make love to me. I don't know how his magic works. He comes on them and he comes on them. But it's very unlucky to meet him. Very. Because his skin is addictive and put in to it's toxic and addictive and seducing the person, they really. They really just become addicted to him. Like they need him.

Jack: Right, so it's his power.

Cristina: Well, it's his skin's power. I mean, yeah, it's his power, like superpower type thing. And the women end up dying from withdrawal after he leaves.

Jack: So they all die.

Cristina: Yep, yep, they die. But then there's the Farduring, which is the evil leprechaun, because none of those are evil. They're not evil. Except for that one that sounds a little.

Jack: How is this one any more or less evil?

Cristina: Well, this guy. Oh, his name translates to Red man. This guy Redman, he wears a red cape and hat and he does some really gross practical jokes. Like he likes to put people into sacks and kidnap people. And then there was a story where he makes them make him dinner and then when they look at the dinner, it's a witch. I don't know. I don't know how that's evil or whatever. That's just weird.

Jack: Very strange. Yes, yes.

Cristina: This is a very strange thing. But usually he just traps people in rooms.

Jack: That doesn't sound like malicious or evil. It just sounds like a douchebag.

Cristina: And. Yeah, it does. It does. He does terrifying noises. One of them is described as laughing like a dead man, which I'm not really sure what that sounds like, but that sounds like, it would be terrifying if you knew that that's what you're specifically listening to. Maybe it's a person you knew that died and you hear that laughing.

Jack: That would make sense.

Cristina: That's kind of horrifying.

Jack: Yeah, Like a very distinct laugh that you shouldn't be hearing.

Cristina: Mm. And he's also the people. The person stealing the human babies and replacing them with changelings. Remember the changelings we talked about last year?

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Yep. He's the one. He's. He's the one doing it.

Jack: Why does he kidnap the children again?

Cristina: To replace them with. I don't know. To replace. As a joke, I guess. To replace them with fairy children. Right.

Jack: And then what does he do with the kid?

Cristina: Don't remember we talked about this last year, and I don't remember. You don't remember?

Jack: No.

Cristina: I'm not sure. Maybe the kids are slaves while they're baby. Like, they don't.

Jack: Underwear gnome logic.

Cristina: Yes, But I guess the purpose, though, of stealing the human babies so that these other babies could be raised and they don't have to actually raise the babies. Fairies are lazy, and they don't want to raise their babies. So they're like, let's get these humans.

Jack: To raise our babies minus a human baby they now have to raise.

Cristina: I'm sure they're not raising those babies. They throw them in the trash.

Jack: And thus the question of where trash babies come from is answered.

Cristina: Yes. That's where trash babies come from. They're also. They also bring nightmares. And they just. They just like to terror. Terrorize people. They just love terrorizing.

Jack: I mean, minus the kidnapping part. Everything else is pretty. Pretty chill.

Cristina: Even the swapping babies thing is chill.

Jack: That's the part I'm talking about.

Cristina: Oh, I thought you meant the other kidnapping of, like, when he made the guy cook and then it somehow became a witch, or trapping the person in a room, and then the scary voices.

Jack: None of that is kidnapping.

Cristina: None of that is kidnapping. But that all sounds pretty bad. No. Okay.

Jack: Sounds scary, not evil.

Cristina: Okay. Well, there's one way to avoid his tricks. You have to say, you will not mock me before he traps you.

Jack: So you could just walk around saying, you will not mock me.

Cristina: Yes, but they. But it's really hard because they set up very good traps. So you have to say before you're trapped, but you might end up being trapped before you say it, so you gotta say it. I guess you have to walk around saying it, just hoping not to get trapped.

Jack: Yeah. Or is it just, like, how. What's the Deadline on this. Can you just say it now and then you're just good forever?

Cristina: Maybe. I don't know. Probably not. You probably have to walk around saying that they're also called rat boys because they're fat.

Jack: The evil ones?

Cristina: Yes, the evil ones. They're fat. They have dark hairy skin. They have a long snout and a skinny tail.

Jack: So they don't look like dwarfs. No, they don't look human.

Cristina: They don't. They look like a giant rat. I guess they look like a. They look like a giant rat. But they're still described as being a type of leprechaun. But an evil leprechaun.

Jack: An evil rat. Leprechaun.

Cristina: Evil rat. Leprechaun. Yes. That cause nightmares and bad luck.

Jack: I feel like this is totally backwards because instead of it being a little person, it's just a giant rat.

Cristina: It's just a giant rat. Oh, it is a giant rat. Yeah. Maybe it's not a leprechaun. Maybe it's just a giant magical rat.

Jack: Sounds like it.

Cristina: Yeah. So then it's just a fairy. Not really a leprechaun. A leprechaun. So who knows. And then there's some other Ireland creatures. There's these things called the Merrow men. And the merrow. The Merrow men are ugly sea creatures. And the females are called marrows. Are beautiful because they're always beautiful, aren't they? All the women are beautiful in these type of stories.

Jack: Yeah. That's how the succubus is so attractive. And the incubus is, I don't know. A monster.

Cristina: Yes. Oh yeah, we talked about that too. Yeah, that's. And the Merrell. The Merrells are not. They're not mermaids. They have human legs instead of a tail. Except that they're. They have large flat feet and webbed fingers to help them swim.

Jack: So they are basically the swamp creature.

Cristina: Yes, they're the swamp creature. And the Merrell's ability to. To swim in water or to travel in water is from her clothes. She has a cape or a cap, depending on the story. And when she takes it off, she loses the ability. And usually a man will find it and hide it so that he could marry her because she's beautiful. And also she has lots of gold from the sea, I guess.

Jack: Okay. Sweet. Fantastic. So like a half fish woman. That's gorgeous.

Cristina: Yes. And rich.

Jack: And rich.

Cristina: Yes. And then. But if she finds her missing cape or cap, she'll end up running away and returning to the sea, leaving her husband and their children and many Families claim to be descendants from these Merrells who were entrapped by fishermen.

Jack: Really? Like, somewhere up the line, their grandma was a fish lady who jumped in the water. And we're sure that it wasn't just a crazy lady who committed suicide?

Cristina: Yeah. It could just be a lady who just abandoned her family. Maybe committed suicide, maybe not. Maybe she just abandoned her family and they were like, no way would she abandon us. She must have been a marrow.

Jack: Chances are the father made that lie up for the children.

Cristina: Yes. And then there's this thing called a banshee, which is a female spirit. I'm not sure. Spirit, fairy, sprite? I don't know.

Jack: I've heard of banshees. They're known for screaming.

Cristina: They're known for screaming? Yes. Well, crying. They're considered a omen of death. Whenever you hear her, you could assume someone's about to die.

Jack: That makes sense. They. They're known. You like, you hear them in the woods and s***. A lot of the time you hear the screams of a banshee. There's a couple of songs about that too.

Cristina: Really? Well, there's some stories where they just find her by their window. She's just next to their window crying.

Jack: That's f****** horrifying.

Cristina: Yes, well, her appearance isn't that. Well, sometimes. It depends, because she has three different appearances. She can look like a young lady, she can look like a regular woman, and she can look like a withering hag. So her age varies.

Jack: F****** banshee.

Cristina: And she can also appear as a crow, weasel or another creature called a stout. That, I think is also a type of weasel.

Jack: I didn't know that. So she could, like, shapeshift.

Cristina: Yeah. And I have three stories of this banshee lady. There was a couple who stayed at a friend's castle, a friend's castle. And on the first night around 1am, the wife heard a cry by the window. And when she looked, she saw some lady there, a lady leaning on the window, crying. And she woke up her husband scared and stuff. And then in the next day, they told. I don't know if they told their friend the story, but anyway, the next day their friend told them that she was all night up because she was with her dying cousin and her very sick cousin. And at the same time, he died. Okay. She told them that even though it's the best room of the house, there's a ghost of a lady that haunts the house. The ghost is of the former owner of the house who killed his wife. His pregnant wife. And that's the banshee that hangs out in the window?

Jack: His former wife? Yeah, but she died inside the house. Why is she hanging outside as a ghost?

Cristina: Why is she hanging outside as a ghost? Because that's what banshees do. I don't know. There's no stories of a banshee hanging out inside a house.

Jack: So she got killed and was like, I'm gonna go outside now.

Cristina: What if she got killed outside?

Jack: I thought she got killed in the house.

Cristina: No, he got. He died in the house. Her cousin died in the house.

Jack: Didn't he kill her?

Cristina: No, The. The owners of the house. The original. The former owners of the house. The husband killed the wife.

Jack: And that's the banshee.

Cristina: And that's the banshee? Yes.

Jack: The wife that died.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Why didn't she haunt the house from inside the house where she died?

Cristina: We don't know that she died inside the house.

Jack: Didn't he kill her in the house?

Cristina: He killed her and they lived in that house.

Jack: Got it.

Cristina: But that doesn't.

Jack: Got it, got it, got it.

Cristina: I understand.

Jack: I understand.

Cristina: Like, yes, maybe he did kill her in the house, but I don't. We don't know that. We don't know where he killed her. It could be anywhere. So. But that's one story. Then there's stories where people from Ireland, they move far away and a banshee still follows them. It finds their way to them.

Jack: That's interesting. Reminds me of that show that's totally full of s*** of the people who moved into the house. Or do you know the people who tell them they're f****** the time I saw a ghost or whatever the f***. And then they got reenactors and s***.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: The ghost story in the room.

Cristina: Oh, yeah, okay.

Jack: That s*** that. This reminds me of that, like, he would. They were like, if we move, we'll be fine. Then they did, and then he stopped seeing her for a while, and then she popped up again.

Cristina: Well, she was hispan. She.

Jack: Except she wasn't screaming. She was just hanging in a closet. Except she was originally from the closet that she was hung in.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And then she was just like, now, Imma go hang in your new closet.

Cristina: Yes. And then I think he also saw.

Jack: Her outside, which makes no f****** sense because presumably she was haunting the place, Meaning now she haunts you. And anybody who lives in that house is fine.

Cristina: Now, I don't. I don't know how ghosts work. What if they can haunt more than one thing at a time?

Jack: That's crazy. Anybody who goes through that house is haunted by the saint. So if everybody in the world stayed at that house and then moved, they would all be haunted by the same ghost at the same time.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And that's what's happening with this banshee. Basically.

Cristina: Except none of his family was haunted and they all lived there. Maybe have to be in that specific room.

Jack: Could be.

Cristina: How are we gonna get all these people into that room?

Jack: That's crazy.

Cristina: That's crazy. But yes, like the banshee and these, these two stories, they moved to. They moved to Canada and Yeah. They heard the cry. And then the next day in one of the stories, the man of the house and his oldest son died in a boating accident. The next day after they heard the strange cry, they also asked people about the strange cry and no one saw anyone by the house, but they all heard the cry.

Jack: That's fascinating. I wonder if that has happened recently, like with banshees, you know? So banshees is an Irish creature.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Interesting, interesting. Because that's prominent in Western culture. That's prominent as h*** over here because.

Cristina: Irish people came over here and brought their banshees.

Jack: Interesting, interesting. Can you imagine? Like, let's say banshees are for facts. Real, right?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like, I'll probably hunt one down. We'll make that a mission. We'll add them to the collection of f******. What do we have so far? F****** werewolves and reptilian vampires. And vampires. We got a bunch of s***. Imprisoned.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: On Mars.

Cristina: We want to find if banshees can haunt people that aren't related to Irish.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: So that.

Jack: That'll be interesting to see a banshee for now.

Cristina: Alright. Because some first. For now it's only been people from Ireland or. Yeah. That have some blood in Ireland that they hunt.

Jack: That's so weird. I'm curious. A banshee is a really weird creature. It really is. Because it's like a person, but also not.

Cristina: It's not a person.

Jack: Yeah. Because like you're saying in Irish culture a banshee is a leprechaun.

Cristina: Not a leprechaun.

Jack: A fairy.

Cristina: A fairy? Yes.

Jack: Okay. It's a fairy.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: In Irish culture the banshee is a fairy.

Cristina: Yes. The best description is a spirit. But to me it seems like spirit could equal fairy. Could equal whatever.

Jack: Yeah. Because they're used almost interchangeably.

Cristina: Yeah. So that's why I'm not sure what she is.

Jack: So when we get to her, it's kind of vague. Because a woman died and became a banshee.

Cristina: Yes. In this story. Yeah. Or the banshee haunts where the woman died. And it's not the woman.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: Yep.

Jack: Interest. Holy crap. That's kind of fascinating. Wow. So it could either be that people turn into banshees or.

Cristina: I never thought that people could turn into banshees in. With these things. It seems like these creatures in Ireland are separate things. They're not human. Yeah. They're their own species.

Jack: Enter the shadow realm, a place where there is a part of people that naturally exists. And upon crossing the threshold, that was still the person, but it's also not. So is the banshee a tortured soul from the shadow realm that crossed over. So maybe it was that woman's spirit. Yeah, but the shadow realm version, maybe. Intense emotion, fear, and all these things that are required for a creature from the shadow realm to manifest were all present at the death of this person and maybe lingers in there as people know about the story and create the fear that allows the banshee to continue manifesting on this side.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It is her tortured soul from the other side.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Although she died somehow, her soul didn't die. Maybe adrenochrome isn't the only way.

Cristina: Yes, maybe adrenochrome is, but then that would mean like all the emotions and feelings and stuff are somehow part of it.

Jack: Yeah. Because we know that people extract adrenochrome or whatever they're getting that keeps them alive from the fear itself.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Where they don't need the adrenal chrome. So if you get enough of that all in one shot. Is that what a haunting soul is? Like a spirit that's left behind? Right. And you're haunting a place. That's your version. That's your spirit that's from the shadow realm.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: That came through. But why? It's usually because you were killed brutally or some. Some horrible thing happened, except your soul couldn't fade away. The crazy amount of emotion, fear, sadness, all those things existed at the moment of your death and tethered your soul to that.

Cristina: But it's still. The Banshee is very different from regular ghosts because it's. It's only here to warn you. Like someone's about to die, which regular ghosts don't really do anything.

Jack: Or Spirit. Yeah, because ghost is an spirit.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Regular spirit or shadow person.

Cristina: Yeah. As far as we can tell, they're not any type of warning sign. They're not going to tell you anything. Thing about the future.

Jack: Yeah. They're not there intentionally. They're just echoing through. Or if they.

Cristina: The banshee is more like the groundhog?

Jack: Yeah, it's more like the groundhog. It's there for information of some sort. But my question is, is it choosing to, or is it a reflex? Is the Banshee incapable, capable of telling.

Cristina: People that it's someone they know is about to die?

Jack: Yes. Do you know?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like, do they have to do it even if they didn't want to? They're just somewhere where death is. And they scream at death.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But then again, if we think of the Shadow Realm. Again, not to stay on the Shadow Realm topic. The reapers also call the Shadow Realm.

Cristina: Other realm, because that's what this is in this place now, I guess.

Jack: So the other Realm, the reaper comes from the other realm. And the Reaper handles life. It is a delivery mechanism in the form of a physical being.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And maybe the Banshee is terrified of the Reaper. Of the Reaper. Because it's always maybe coming for the Banshee.

Cristina: She's warning about the Reaper then.

Jack: I don't think she's warning anybody.

Cristina: She's just horrified. Of the Reaper?

Jack: Yes, because that's a lingering tethered soul to the wrong side. And the Reaper delivers souls.

Cristina: I don't know. But I think this third story might change our mind a little bit about that. Because in the third situation of a Banshee haunting a man because his daughter was gonna die, but he didn't know that she was healthy, strong, and beautiful. And then one night, he heard a voice coming from his window, and it said. Which is weird. Like, they usually just cry. And it was crying too, but it also said, in three weeks, death. In three weeks, the grave. Dead, dead, dead. That's what he heard. And then the next day, his daughter got sick or was showing symptoms of a fever. And then three weeks later, dead.

Jack: Interesting. Interesting. So it was a warning.

Cristina: It was a real warning of, like, I know what's gonna happen.

Jack: It's not that they're seeing death actively in the area, even if other people can't, because they themselves are ethereal and seeing other ethereal beings.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It's that they're seeing the future.

Cristina: Yes. Like, maybe it does see death coming, but it knows, like, specific.

Jack: Oh, my God. We're missing one thing that you mentioned earlier.

Cristina: What?

Jack: And then I specified earlier, time works differently on the other side. So maybe from this side they're saying, death is coming, but it takes crazy long here. But from that side's point of view, it's immediate. He's approaching quick. But it could be weeks.

Cristina: Yeah. Even though this one is specific. Or maybe he remembers it as it being super specific.

Jack: Maybe they were super specific. Maybe the person the banshee telling the information knew specifically the. The conversion rate of time.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: And was like. Well, it takes them about three hours on this side, so we'll say like three weeks.

Cristina: Yeah. So like banshees may know the time difference equivalent of what's going on. Okay.

Jack: Just a possibility.

Cristina: Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. And then there's the Fear Gorda. And Fear Gordas look like zombies. Actually. I think they are zombies, but we're just gonna. Well, they're like zombies from like old fashioned zombie movies. Like they're. They got bones popping out of their body. They're like super thin, they have bluish skin and their flesh is rotting.

Jack: Yeah. So it sounds like a zombie from an old school interpretation of a zombie, but like a freaking God decided to look like this s***. It was like f****** reason for it though.

Cristina: During famines it comes around and it asks for food. It asks people for food who are already dying in a famine. But if you give him the food, he'll reward you with. But if you give him food, he'll reward you with a lifelong wealth and prosperity. And those who don't give him food will have bad luck and poverty.

Jack: Sounds pretty badass. So he's testing the morality of people.

Cristina: Yes. In the worst situation, in the life and death situation, because it's a famine.

Jack: So you're starving. I'm starving. Do you care about others? Can you.

Cristina: That's a true test. That sounds very godly.

Jack: Yeah, that's very noble.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: He's testing a real person. Like, do you remain a good person in the worst of circumstances?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Then you deserve good things.

Cristina: Yes. That's pretty interesting. Yeah. And then there are stories. There's two. There's like. Okay, I'll say. There's like three stories of these creatures that are very vampire. Like the author of Dracula might have based it on these creatures because he's Irish.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: But he also liked folklore, so. And he did travel, so he of course also based on other famous vampires and stories.

Jack: Transylvanian legends and whatnot.

Cristina: Yeah, yeah. So the first one is called the Avatar, the evil Irish magical dwarf king who was like. He was just pretty evil. And he killed. He was killed and buried standing up. And then the next day he came back from the grave and used his magical powers to be even more crueler than he was before. And he loves to drink the blood of his victims, of course. And there's only one way to stop him. You must kill him. And Bury him upside down. Very vampirey.

Jack: Very vampirey. Including all the weird ways to get rid of them and crap.

Cristina: Yes. The second vampire is a lady, and she is called the Red Bloodsucker. She's known as the Red Bloodsucker. She seduces men and then drains their blood. One of the stories about how she became a vampire was that she was in love with some poor peasant dude, and her father didn't like that, so he made her marry some rich dude who treated her terrible. And then eventually she committed suicide. But then she came back to get revenge on her father and her husband, and she sucked their blood until they were dead. And then now she does that once.

Jack: A year to random people.

Cristina: To random people.

Jack: She's Jeeper Scrapers.

Cristina: Well, to men, specifically. She wants men.

Jack: Oh, so she's a succubus.

Cristina: She's a Succubus. Well, yeah, but she's a vampire. And there is only one way to, quote, unquote, defeat her, because it's not really to defeat her. Like, what, did you compare her to a succubus? No, before that. Jeepers Creepers.

Jack: Jeepers Creepers.

Cristina: To stop her is like, Jeepers Creepers. You don't really defeat her. You put rocks on her grave and then she can't get up.

Jack: Yeah. You just enable her.

Cristina: Yeah. For only a year, and then she'll try to get out, and then you got to put some more rocks.

Jack: She sounds very Jeepers Creepers.

Cristina: Yeah. So maybe Jeepers Creepers was inspired by some Dracula stories or.

Jack: No, it was actually inspired by a song.

Cristina: By a song. Oh, yeah.

Jack: But that song could have used not only the song, but it could have been like a mesh of this story, a song, and a bunch of other crap to make. Because Jeepers Creeper is a scary m***********.

Cristina: Yeah. But that whole coming back every 23 years, or whatever it was isn't from the song, though.

Jack: No.

Cristina: No. So like, maybe that was inspired by this type of story. Yeah. And then the third vampire, like, person or demon? This one's more. This is a fairy vampire, and her name is Lennon Sid. I think that's how her name is said. And she's a demon that likes to inspire poets and musicians. But once they. Once they make the thing that they're gonna make, I guess she drinks their blood, she shares with them her intelligence, creativity, and magic. But when she leaves, the men go into a deep depression and they die. Then she will take her dead lovers back to her lair. And then, rather sucking their blood, she puts their blood into a Giant red cauldron, which is the source of her beauty and artistic inspiration.

Jack: Fantastic.

Cristina: Yep. So to prevent her from rising, you have to also put stones on her resting place.

Jack: Interesting, Interesting. So definitely a vampire, too.

Cristina: Yeah, she's a fairy vampire, which I guess the dwarf guy is a fairy vampire because dwarves are fairies. But then the second lady, she's just a vampire. She was human, and then she became a vampire.

Jack: So we're back to the same problem of the difference between a spirit and a fairy.

Cristina: Yes. Yes. That's why it's all so complicated. And I'm not really sure what is. What if they're all the same or if they're not the same or whatever. Where's the lines?

Jack: Yeah. Cause it seems like they do blur.

Cristina: Yes. And then the last creature, because there's so many creatures. But I'm just gonna stop at this one. It's called the Questing Beast. It is a cool creature. It's also an evil creature who has the head of a snake, the body of a leopard, the backside of a lion, and the hooves of a deer. And its cries. Its sound. The sound it makes sounds like the cry it makes sounds like the bark.

Jack: Of 30 dogs all at once simultaneously.

Cristina: Yes. And I think it's called the Questing Beast because many knights have tried to defeat this beast. I don't know if any has succeeded.

Jack: But so they go out of their way. It's an accomplishment. They're trying to do status thing. If I defeat it, I am a legend.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Okay, so it's a western dragon again. You go defeat the dragon for the status now. It will be the best knight ever. Everybody will know. And so the Questing Beast is the same idea.

Cristina: That's the same thing.

Jack: Very interesting. It sounds like a Pokemon.

Cristina: It sounds like they'll turn this into a Pokemon someday.

Jack: Yeah, fair enough. Then again, they don't make Pokemon out of animals anymore. It's sooner that you'll have, like, microphone. The Pokemon. There probably is a microphone Pokemon. I'm pretty sure that's a thing already.

Cristina: No, not yet.

Jack: I think that's. There's a microphone Pokemon.

Cristina: That's the next evolution. I mean, the next season or whatever.

Jack: There's a Pokemon. It's called, like, Mikey or something.

Cristina: No, it's not Mikey.

Jack: Yeah, man. There's totally a microphone Pokemon. Oh, my God. What is it? What the h*** is that thing? Is that a real Pokemon?

Cristina: I think that's fan. A fan art. Because there is a Pokemon that has different forms that looks like that, and that's what they're making fun of, I think.

Jack: Okay, fair enough.

Cristina: But we could double check. Look, his name is Rotom, the voice form. Okay, let's see what Rotom's different forms are, though. Okay, so he's Rotom.

Jack: Could be a frigerator, f****** lawnmower. Modem, a laundry. He could be a washing machine. He could be a grill. He could be a fridge, a freaking fan. And what the h*** is that other one?

Cristina: This one? This one. The original, I guess, is just, like, normal electricity. Yeah. And then he. Yeah, he turns into things that need electricity.

Jack: Bro, what the h*** is going on with Pokemon?

Cristina: Close enough. You're right. There's a microphone.

Jack: There totally isn't, but there should totally be a microphone.

Cristina: Look at him. He's a Pokedex.

Jack: Oh, my God.

Cristina: So there's fan art of, like, the many different things he could probably turn into. If you can be these things, there's probably a limited, unlimited possibility of what he could actually turn into.

Jack: Freaking Rotom.

Cristina: As long as they're electric. I mean, electronical, right? Yeah, like a computer.

Jack: That makes perfect sense. But it's like, why is this a freaking Pokemon? A blender. A toaster.

Cristina: I'm not sure what this one's supposed to be.

Jack: Where's the other one? Next to it.

Cristina: That one?

Jack: No, the one that's a toaster. What the h*** is that?

Cristina: No idea. Okay, so people are getting really creative of what this should look like. What?

Jack: Freaking Rotom, bro.

Cristina: Yes, I would like to see Quest Beast as a Pokemon.

Jack: That'd be cool. Questy. Questy Equestrian.

Cristina: Oh, that's a cool name.

Jack: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it is a cool name.

Cristina: Well, that was awesome. And there's a lot of creatures in Ireland. Ridiculous. That place is popular.

Jack: Yes, but what has made me interested about everything you've talked about is really digging into a banshee. Yeah, like, at this point, we've become the new Sam and Dean. They're off air. They're. They're. They're living their lives. We still hunting? S***, they stopped. We're still going. We're still hunting.

Cristina: Yeah, they're the ones that taught us.

Jack: Yeah, except we have a freaking army of subhumans provided by the Chinese cloning program. Yeah, which is totally fine. Look, it's totally fine. Actually, it's not the cloning program. We're the clones. It's all the aborted babies.

Cristina: The aborted babies make the.

Jack: The subhumans.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Aborted babies equal an army of subhumans that are superior because they're genetically engineered and then turn into Superhumans that then we use to hunt these creat like the ones in Ireland. And now I am fascinated by a banshee.

Cristina: Except that these creatures have. Are really secretive and they can hide and stuff. And like, I don't know. Finding a banshee really hard.

Jack: I'll figure it out, okay? I will figure out finding a banshee.

Cristina: Well, that's gonna be fun.

Jack: It's gonna be astounding. I will find the banshee by any means necessary.

Cristina: All right?

Jack: I promise. That much.

Cristina: I can't wait.

Jack: Yes. It's gonna be exciting.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Anyways, if you guys enjoyed this conversation and many conversations of this nature already exist on this show, that you can go find those locations would be to find them on the official website, greathoughts.info Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts.

Cristina: And you can reach us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and TikTok. UsConvopod.

Jack: Yes. And remember to subscribe, rate, and review.

Cristina: The show and let someone who might like this show know about it.

Jack: Yes. Word of mouth. It's totally amazing. Scream at people as if you were a banshee and tell them, hey, you're gonna love that. And they're gonna be like, yeah, I will. And you're like, yeah, cool. Scream with me. And then they'll scream with you. You should do that to random people on the street. Because they love it.

Cristina: They love it.

Jack: They love it.

Cristina: This has been the Just Conversation podcast. Take nothing personal. And thanks for listening. Bye.

Jack: Kekken Apheos. Go on. Hang in hand.

Cristina: And that's what KEK is all about.

Jack: Chaos. Yeah. Embracing chaos. It's a natural part of everything. But so is order. And having order and reason and logic. In no moment does Kek's chaos interfere with Pastafarianism. Logic. The goal is be reasonable. Same thing with Kek. You control, but you don't hurt people.

Cristina: Because it's just a joke.

Jack: It's just a joke. If you're crossing the line, you're f****** up.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: You're doing it wrong.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It's not about hurting other people. It's about that balance of you can have fun. Some people are gonna get annoyed.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: But they should know that they're getting annoyed at a joke.

Cristina: It's so weird how anything could have a religion. Thinking of Shaggy. Shaggy. The church of Shaggy.

Jack: Yeah. What happens with Shaggy is the idea that destruction is equal to creation. So not only do we maintain balance, but we need to understand that sometimes things. A good example is, as writers, we often have to get rid of something and destroy something because it's just not working out. It's the weak link in what we're trying to do. And sometimes you're attached to the idea, but the story isn't attached to the idea.

Cristina: I usually just remove them. I don't delete them or anything.

Jack: Well, you can remove them, put them somewhere else, but you're destroying the concept you were working with to change it for something else.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And that just goes hand in hand with. To maintain balance, you must destroy sometimes.

Cristina: That's an interesting way to see it. Yeah.

Jack: Shaggy is important.

Cristina: He is.

Jack: He's important in everything. You must destroy in order to create their hand in hand.

Cristina: Good morning. Good morning. The Just Conversation podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by great dots.info art by 0lupo and logo by Seth McAllister with social media managed by Amber Black.

Rambling 109: Werewolf Science

The Just conversation Podcast, Werewolf, Werewolves #monsters, creatures, halloween, folklore, science, science fiction, stories, urban legend, terror, horror, fear, nature, 1800s, demons, possession, full moon

What is the science behind the stories of werewolves? What are the possible events that lead to their stories being shared over generations? Answers and theories to that on this episode.

Story:
After an episode where Calm Cristy elaborated on the intricate folklore and stories of Werewolves, Genocidal Jack decides to do an even deeper dive to see if the stories hold and scientific validity. With hopes of coming to a conclusion and maybe one day capturing their own pet werewolf, the duo unpack the origin of their stories. But what they discover about werewolves, native tribes and synthetic drugs throws their plans for a loop in ways they could not have predicted. All that and more on this episode of Just Conversation.

+Episode Details

Remember to leaves us a rating wherever you listen to podcast!

Topics Discussed

  • Werewolf Origin Story
  • Yellow Eyes
  • Monster in the Woods
  • Hauling Wolves
  • Tribal Native Outfits
  • Synthetic Drugs
  • Bath Salts
  • Rabies
  • Full Moon

Our Links:

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod

Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod

Instagram - https://instagram.com/justconvopod


+Transcripts

Jack: Where do werewolves come from? Is there an example in nature of what a werewolf could be? Or maybe a werewolf is just a collection of ideas, possibilities, stories passed through generation. So what is a werewolf? The answer to that and more coming up on this episode of Just Conversation.

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Just Conversation podcast, the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas in childish ways. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And if you haven't yet, remember to hit that subscribe button to get notified the second new episodes are released.

Cristina: And also, this show is most enjoyable with a listening partner to share opinions and ideas on topics we discuss.

Jack: Yes. So make sure to get some body pulled up nice and close and prepare to be en. Wokened. It's like the combination of enlightened and woke.

Cristina: Whoa. The next level.

Jack: The next level. It's because the woke movement is of dumbasses and the enlightened movement is of, like, self help and like, what is it called? The. The essential oils and crystals, people. And it's like, how are you supposed to communicate if you ban everything?

Cristina: I don't know. What's. Your facial expressions?

Jack: I don't even know, man. Because you're not allowed to say everything because everybody's emotions. The end. Just everybody's emotions. And it's like, all right, so if everybody's censoring themselves for everybody's emotions, everybody's being f. But you get offended by fake people because they're not being real, which is where all those. You know, if somebody's lying to you, you're being fake, then, you know, remove them from your life. But you put them there because they can't say anything. You don't let them say. So they have to be fake in the first place in order to communicate. But then you don't like them being fake because it's fake. And so you remove them from your life. Before long, you force everybody to censor themselves, but you don't like anybody because they're all being this fake person. And then you find yourself alone and kill yourself.

Cristina: And you're also depressed because you're always having to be fake.

Jack: Yes, you also. You're a hypocrite. You land as a hypocrite at the.

Cristina: End of it because, yeah, you're doing the same. You have to do the same thing for everyone else. If you expect everyone else to do the same that to you. And Yep.

Jack: Although I don't believe that. No, I don't believe any of them. Like practice what they preach.

Cristina: Well, next we'll have to censor emotions. That's the next thing.

Jack: I think the only thing. We should be censoring our emotions. There should be no f*** speech. There should be because we need to communicate. There should be emotion police because you shouldn't. The problem is we're living in a backwards society where people rely on others for how they feel. Like why can words affect you that way? What the f***? Just suck it up. Your emotions are your emotions, not anybody else's. Actions that affect people, that's a problem.

Cristina: And they, they need help. Everyone needs help.

Jack: Everybody needs help. That's crazy.

Cristina: I want to be emotion police. What do I have to do?

Jack: I don't know. There's. I mean any kind of police, I guess you just sign up, they give you a gun and a badge like a day later and they're like, go out there and kill as many as you can.

Cristina: Yeah. Anyone who shows emotion, I just shoot them.

Jack: Yeah. They're like, if they show emotion, they're getting hostile. And then you put them down.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: That's how you do it. They show emotion. The suspect is being hostile. Then you throw yourself on the floor. Officer down, I need backup. Then you pull out your gun, he's attacking and then you just shoot him a couple of times. And he was just Karen ing it out.

Cristina: Yeah. And I'm just being a soccer player.

Jack: A soccer player?

Cristina: Yeah. Just like, oh no, my ankle. Oh yeah.

Jack: Like when a soccer player barely gets touched. Like that guy who got tapped in the shoulder and then threw himself on the floor and pretended to like be super hurt.

Cristina: Yeah, those soccer moves, those are my favorite part of soccer. There's nothing better. It's so. That's even more so papyri than like any other sport. There's nothing, no drama like soccer drama.

Jack: Like it. No. They will pretend everything is the end of the world. Yes, it's so funny. But keeping on the theme of rage and anger and going hostile and cops shooting people for no reason because that's what cops do. And if you're going to be emotion police, you better be ready to shoot anybody emotional. Which means all the Karens are going to die.

Cristina: Sorry, Karen's.

Jack: They gotta. They're ruining the world anyways. As people get wokened, we can educate them on anger. Particularly like rage filled anger. No. All jokes aside, previously previously on this Conversation. You were telling us some wolf related folklore. Werewolves. Yes. And although we came to some interesting conclusions. That episode turned out unique. We landed. We stumbled on some things that I didn't think would connect, but they did.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: That was interesting. But that gave me the thought that, like, how much do we really, like, sure, we know folklore, but, like, can we make a real werewolf? Is that like, a thing? Could it. Could it be possible that there was always a real werewolf? Like, everything?

Cristina: But when you're saying make, are you talking about, like, scientists, like, Scooby Doo lab?

Jack: No, I'm saying, like, is it based on something true?

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: I'm saying, like, in every circumstance, every bit of folklore is based. It's like a rumor or a stereotype. Like some part of what's happening is true somehow.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So where did a werewolf come from? There must be something in there that's truth. Something that isn't a lie.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Even when we think of some of the conclusions from that very episode, those have to be based on some manner, shape, or form of something that was real to begin with.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And so I started to sort of look into it, trying to find out. And obviously it took me to situations from the past and situations from the present. Mixture of things sprinkled together create a pretty interesting painting of what a werewolf could have rooted from. There is a multitude of things. And one of the things I didn't know about werewolves is that they have yellow eyes.

Cristina: What?

Jack: Yeah. A lot of folklore about werewolves referenced yellow eyed beasts. Yeah. That they had almost like cat like, eye slit, but that their surrounding eye is very yellow. Like you could see bright yellow eyes.

Cristina: They look like cat eyes.

Jack: The pupil.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But the rest of the eye, the cornea, I guess, would be. Looks very, very yellow. And I couldn't zero in on anything in reality that for some reason would cause that. Except one very specific thing, which is actually pretty common. If you don't take care of yourself. And that thing is when you have an inflamed liver, when you have liver damage and it can't process things properly.

Cristina: It turns your eyes yellow.

Jack: Your eyes turn yellow.

Cristina: Oh, like the white part turns yellow or.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Okay. That's what.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: And you looked at pictures of it?

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Whoa. Does it look creepy looking?

Jack: It looks pretty normal.

Cristina: Oh, so you wouldn't, in the dead of night, see someone with those yellow eyes?

Jack: They wouldn't have, like, glowing eyes. Like, that's an exaggeration. I don't know why. They'd have, like, fluorescent eyes or some s***.

Cristina: Yeah. But just those eyes wouldn't creep you out.

Jack: Yes. And if you saw those Eyes in a figure that was more or less in shadow. You would more than anything, like in any other case, see the eyes, most likely.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And when it comes to eyes darkness, there's the stereotype of the black person in the dark. One of the few things you can see from them is their teeth and their eyes, because those are white. In the case that a dark skinned person is hanging out in the woods, teeth and eyes are what you'd see if you see teeth and yellow eyes, but they're hard to make out, you have a monster. Especially considering that most of these things go back to racist old white people from old times. So they had slaves. Slaves would escape, they would run away. And it's not an empty everything around you. There's other people. So you're running through the woods and you stumble into somebody's yard or some s***, they look your way, they can see teeth and yellow eyes, and they're scared there's a creature running through the woods. Especially if they've never seen a black person before. You're already something that they don't understand. So you're some sort of. And this is not doing anything extreme. You're malnourished, you have very little water, you have liver damage for some reason. You have yellow eyes. As a result, you're running through the woods and all they can see are your teeth and your yellow eyes. You're just escaping slave masters.

Cristina: You're a werewolf.

Jack: You're werewolf. You're some feral creature to them.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And we're just talking. You don't even have to be black. You could have just been Hispanic or some s***. You could have been Native American. And you're just dark skin enough that you disappear into particular dark light or you're hard to make out.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: If we think of Native Americans and their tribal where these tribes in the times of white people first arriving here, they still had their tribal wear in large numbers. If you come to a new land and you're not familiar with and you're still, you still miss, you believe in mystical things and a lot of fantasy based things. And you arrive from, whether it be England or Spain or Italy or Portugal or any of these conquistador infested locations, and you believe in gods and angels and demons and creatures created by monsters, you arrive in the land, you know some of the natives, but they live in nature. And in the middle of the night, you see, they're dark skinned, they're tan at minimum, and it gets darker from there. They're running around doing their thing. Maybe they're doing some ritual or something. They're in their tribal uniform and they look not the way. They don't have the normal shape of anything you could identify. They maybe have a helmet on. The helmet has weird spikes. Maybe they have the skull of a dead creature on them. Okay, so a dead cow or something that they put that on top of, like a buffalo? Yeah, anything.

Cristina: You know, just looking at like a chattel or something of it.

Jack: Yes. You're seeing something alien as f***.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And it's just a Native American with tribal gear on. They're just doing what they do, but you don't understand what they do. And it's the middle of the night, you look, maybe you're wandering, maybe, who knows, you're delivering goods from one town to another. It takes you a couple of days, which means you got to camp out in the woods and you just happen to be close to a camp and they're just walking their normal route before you see something really weird and you're like, what the f*** is that? I saw a f****** werewolf. It did not. It looked humanoid. It looked like he had a bunch of excessive hair or feathers and horns and a head that was oversized and he was way bigger than. And it's because they were wearing an outfit that was huge and fluffy and odd looking.

Cristina: What? Yeah, that could be the werewolf.

Jack: So now we're building where the stories are coming from before anything gets confirmed. We just have. Oh, I've seen them. Even if I've. If I haven't been up close. I've seen shadows and things. I know what they are. Those are werewolves. Those are a human creed, although it hasn't been a wolf yet. But you come to the United States before the United States. You come to America and you are exploring and you see these Native Americans or captives, slaves running away. You are in America. We have wolves of many different kinds.

Cristina: Yeah, this.

Jack: And they live where? The woods, the forests. And where do the Native Americans live? The deserts, the woods and the forest. So you're either seeing them with coyotes or you're seeing them with wolves. Either way.

Cristina: So they're wearing a wolf.

Jack: They could be wearing a wolf. And they're probably at peace in nature with the wolves.

Cristina: Ah, you hear like a wolf howling and then you see them and you're.

Jack: Like, there's a harmony between them and you're confusing one with the other. You hear the wolf and then you see the guy in the outfit you can't identify. It looks like some alien. It looks like a creature you can't but it's an outfit in the dark, and you can't really make out that they're wearing an outfit. You're just like, I. You could even think that's f****** Bigfoot. You don't know. You saw some crazy s***, but you heard the wolf. Now you're making associations. Now you're connecting dots, but there's nothing happening. These are just circumstances that happen to be close to one another.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: They're from the forest. The wolves are from the forest. You're walking on route to make a delivery by the force. You hear one thing, you see the other, you think it's the same thing. I heard a wolf. I know what a wolf sounds like, but then I saw a creature, and I'm already thinking wolf. But then I see that. I associate wolf to it. It's a wolf, man.

Cristina: Yeah. I'm not gonna investigate that.

Jack: Exactly. I saw Wolfman. Yeah, I heard it, then I saw it.

Cristina: Yeah. Real life werewolves.

Jack: Interesting, right? So there's definitely a psychological factor that leads to these things. There's the way rumors get started and myths begin. Is always base and grounded. There's something real going on.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: That gets twisted and turned by superstitious people and by ideologies and by narratives sometimes intentionally twisted in order to, like, think of. What's his name? Shakespeare. He writes stories about situations that aren't real to warn people about possibilities. And so that probably happened a million times. Fairy tales, a lot of the time were told because you wanted to warn somebody.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: We had a guest, our last guest before this episode, Chris Rustic, who was telling us about the banana tree, who would rape people. But it's really just a story you come up with to scare kids out of going into the woods, but not scare them away from other people. You just don't want them to be anywhere they can't be be seen where something horrible could happen.

Cristina: So saying werewolves are in the woods could scare off the kids from entering the woods?

Jack: Yes. At the beginning, it began as somebody really saw something. They don't know what they saw, but that mental association happens. But then they start twisting it because, look, I don't know what the f*** I saw, and I don't want my kids going into the woods.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So we make a story about the werewolves we saw because we did see werewolves. I saw it. I was there. I ran into town immediately afterwards. I'm like, I can't make this delivery. There's a monster in the woods. It was half man, half wolf. They tell the whole town. They tell the Kids, how long before that becomes just a tale that that town knows of, that the forest is filled with werewolves?

Cristina: And it's just to protect the kids, though, or.

Jack: It didn't begin that way. It was warning. It was like somebody saw a f****** creature in there.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Somebody saw a werewolf, and we don't know what those werewolves do.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Jump forward. Many, many, many, many years. We're in Modern Era. 2012, Miami, Florida. Some guy is on the street eating another m***********'s face.

Cristina: That's not a zombie. That wasn't the first case of a zombie.

Jack: That was the first case of a zombie. But it came from a person having bath salts, which are just a synthetic drug imitating, usually a methamphetamine or heroin. These synthetic drugs that are made to imitate, whether it be heroin or it be methamphetamines or whatever, they have very specific behaviors that happen to people. They do things that these other drugs don't. And like. Wait, what?

Cristina: What is it?

Jack: Oh, what things do they do?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Well, there's a couple of effects that they have that they create. You know, primarily the bath salt, specifically, it is a unique compound of things. Right. For short, it's called mdpv. But usually when people take these things, they tend to cause the user to go hypermanic with psychosis, and then they become highly aggressive.

Cristina: But do they take it for that?

Jack: No.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: They think they're getting high as if it were heroin or as if it were methamphetamine.

Cristina: So is this something like they're lied to that what it is or.

Jack: No, they know what it is. They just think they're going to have that reaction.

Cristina: Okay. But. Okay.

Jack: Not everybody reacts the same way.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: It's not like everyone who takes bath salts behaves the same way.

Cristina: No.

Jack: But some people do take bath salts, and. Because it's not like a science.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It's not down to a T. It's. Everybody makes it different, and it's always tainted one way or another. People are going to react in weird ways. Exactly. So with a lot of people having these sort of very aggressive behaviors come weird sporadic brain patterns and, like, irrational tendencies that they have. They scream and they throw themselves on the floor and roll over and they tear at their chest and they tear at their legs. They scratch themselves till they bleed. They kind of go crazy, essentially. In one of these cases we saw in Miami, the guy who ate the face, he was one of two. I think the other one was in California or something who attacked an individual and kind of started Just eating a f****** person while they were still alive.

Cristina: Were they? Did they sound like an animal? Like what did they sound like?

Jack: Their screams were f****** crazy. We can hear.

Cristina: We can hear it.

Jack: Yeah. So we can hear what this individual sounds like.

Cristina: Okay, that's gonna be horrifying. I know. Is that the guy?

Jack: Yes, that's a guy on Bath Sal.

Cristina: Wow. But did they do something?

Jack: No, they're just watching him trip out on bath salts.

Cristina: Stop it.

Jack: All right, all right, I'll stop the video. Sir.

Cristina: Stay down. Stay down.

Jack: You're going to hurt yourself. Okay, so that are the sounds that a person on bath salts makes?

Cristina: What? What? Hearing that in the middle of the night. Horrifying, definitely.

Jack: Hearing that in the middle of the night is a nightmare of sorts, especially if you don't know what is happening. Now, as we know, it's been associated with cannibalistic tendencies.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Now, let's keep all of these things in mind as we go back in time to hearing weird things. And a man runs into the woods saying, I was on my delivery route and I saw a f******. I heard a howl. I saw a weird creature walking through the woods. It was a f****** werewolf.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: You know, it has yellow eyes. You saw teeth, you saw big build, which is probably just a f****** outfit of some sort. And you heard a howl. There's a whole mentality happening here.

Cristina: A picture is being made.

Jack: Yes. Now, you, in these times, don't have a doctor the way traditional doctors work. Now we're talking 1700s.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So a doctor is a bit different of a concept. A doctor is really an alchemist, a witch doctor. And what do they do? They grab random chemicals, put them together, trying to heal. Random s***.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Usually they give you something. It's not even research. They're just like this s*** with that s***. Yeah, here's some poison. Take it. You know, it'll cure you. People are getting f****** given. What was that thing that's inside of a thermometer?

Cristina: Mercury.

Jack: Mercury. People are getting mercury. F****** cure s***. Like, come on, bro.

Cristina: Yeah, yeah.

Jack: So, like, it wasn't the smartest of practices, but let's say you have liver problems. So you have yellow eyes. Your liver isn't functional the way it should be. You go to this witch doctor, the alchemist, and he's like, I got something for you. I'm gonna throw a couple of these things together, and you're gonna take this. It's random s***. It's random. What are the odds that once in a while there was an adverse reaction that behaved the way a chemical compound like bath salts does. You can actually get close to this type of behavior with mercury poisoning.

Cristina: Really?

Jack: You get fevers, you get hallucinations, you become manic, you become aggressive. And you can get that from mercury poisoning. You become very delusional. Okay, so what stops a witch doctor from giving somebody who has a failing liver without knowing that that's the case? Some concoction that works like bath salts. Person, for whatever reason, wanders the woods and now you have a yellow person freaking the out, running out at and.

Cristina: Trying to eat them, trying to bite their faces.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But you're alone, walking through the woods. It's dark. You get randomly attacked by this individual. You don't get to see them. You already just heard the stories. You heard the other guy and he was a. You were like, he's a p****. He does. He's just seeing. Yeah, Imma do the delivery and imma get the money he didn't earn. And now I'm walking through the woods and then boom. I got attacked by somebody, some s*** in the middle of the night. It kind of looked human, but I couldn't really tell because it was too quick. But I know it bit me, it scratched me and then it threw itself on the floor, started screaming and scratching itself, and then ran off into the woods. What the f*** did I just see? Yeah, it was the werewolf that guy was talking about.

Cristina: No, you're gonna become one. Or if you know that's part of the story, if that's part of the story already.

Jack: Not yet, but it's gonna be. Because the guy who spends his time in the woods is exposed to particular, that puts him in a unique kind of circumstance.

Cristina: Wait, which guy?

Jack: The quote, werewolf. Oh, okay, okay, so Native Americans, people wandering, making deliveries, slaves trying to escape captivity, running through the woods. Whatever the case might be, animals have parasites and have diseases. And if you get attacked by animals, there are certain kinds of diseases that are more prominent in creatures and others enter the most dangerous thing you could have gotten at that time. That now is one of the most easily curable things you could ever get. Rabies.

Cristina: Rabies? Oh, yeah.

Jack: Now, rabies, basic things, it's transmitted through saliva, usually through a bite. If you touch saliva with rabies, you're not gonna get it. So how do you get. You either need that saliva to fall into your mouth, to be ingested somehow, or to come in contact with your blood.

Cristina: Okay, like being bitten?

Jack: Like being bitten. Now, the virus is enclosed in the saliva. That's why it travels through it. It's sort of protected by the saliva itself. And it targets the nervous system and particular brain cells.

Cristina: And what does the rabies. What is it gonna do?

Jack: Well, the rabies is going to cause muscle spasm, aggressive behavior, psychosis, hallucinations, and very particularly foaming from the mouth.

Cristina: Foaming from the mouth?

Jack: Yep.

Cristina: That's pretty horrifying. If you see that in the woods and it bites you.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: And then just a person biting you, you will get rabies.

Jack: It would be transmitted? Yes.

Cristina: Oh, so in the story, the guy who gets bitten gets rabies.

Jack: Yes. So if we follow the picture perfectly, there might be a Native American roaming the woods. He's where the wood, where the wolves are. The guy is first, guys walking through. He hears a wolf, sees the Native American, panics, doesn't make the delivery. Somewhere in that time, the Native American gets bitten himself by some creature in the woods. They don't have a vaccine. They catch rabies. The rabies causes a series of behaviors that makes their liver fail for whatever reason. Now you got yellow eyes. You still got your outfit on. You're savage. You're crazy. You're acting like a maniac. Your tribe leader creates a alchemic concoction, gives it to you, enhances the problems you're already dealing with. Now you are extra manic, extra crazy, extra psychotic. And you're attacking yourself. And anything you see, you get cast out. You're no longer part of the village. You're a danger.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: You're running through the woods. That other guy's coming through because that other previous delivery man is a b****. Imma do the job. He's paranoid. You run out, suddenly attack them in your big fluffy outfit because you haven't taken it off. Nobody could get close enough to you. You're danger.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So you still got it. You come out looking like some crazy creature they can't identify. You don't look human because of what you're wearing, but you kind of do look human because of your general shape, except you're not making sense. You're making crazy sounds like the ones we just heard.

Cristina: And you're foaming at the mouth.

Jack: You're foaming out of the mouth. You're crawling. So it's somewhere between animalistic and not. Your higher brain functions are shutting off because of the rabies. And the hallucination are coming on because of the rabies as well as because of the poisoning, probably from mercury. You have a ton of symptoms stacking up on top of each other. And then you go and you bite the guy on Top of your struggle, you're fighting him, you're fighting yourself. You bite him, you scratch him. He panics. He manages to get out in time. He leaves the package behind. He gets back to town, he's like, I was attacked by that thing.

Cristina: Oh, no.

Jack: There is a f****** werewolf out there. You don't know that. That bite has f***** you up.

Cristina: Yep. So.

Jack: So you have the bite. This guy's been living in the woods God knows how long, going crazy. He's gonna die soon anyways because he has rabies. Your s*** gets f***** up. You start developing a fever. The wound gets infected. You start getting started, starting to hallucinate, developing fevers and developing crazy behaviors. They're, like, associated with the thing. Yeah. Becoming a werewolf, they think, dude, you got whatever that guy got.

Cristina: Yeah. Then their solution to hunt down that guy.

Jack: No. Their solution is we gotta give you some s*** to cure you.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: But in those times, you go to nat to the means, you know, back to alchemy. So you give this person something that basically accelerates their behavior and behaves like bath salts. On top of the fact that the rabies was already causing a series of symptoms that are very crazy. Animalistic psychosis, hallucination.

Cristina: So he goes through the same thing the other guy is going through times two.

Jack: Yeah, I guess literally exactly what the other guy's going through. You're going through the symptoms of rabies plus the symptoms of, essentially, bath salts put together. And they're watching you slowly become animalistic.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: You're becoming a beast to them.

Cristina: Didn't they stab you in the forehead to see if you're a werewolf?

Jack: No, probably. A lot of the times they probably just ended up killing these people. Now, there are a couple of things that could enhance this narrative. It depends on who gets it. There's actually a condition called hypotrichosis, which is the growth of excessive body hair. And it could grow not just everywhere on your body, but it includes your face.

Cristina: Yeah. So you could have seen people. Yeah. That look like. They kind of look like wolf people. Yeah. Yeah. Like what you'd imagine, like in a corny werewolf movie. They kind of look like that.

Jack: Yeah, you could have. Yeah, exactly. Like. Like wolf man or some s***.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So you could have this condition and go through all the same symptoms. I just said you actually don't even have to go through s***. You could have been attacked by a wolf and seen a man with this condition walking through the woods.

Cristina: Yeah. Well, even if he didn't attack you, just seeing this man through the woods Is probably frightening enough.

Jack: Yeah, fair enough. But in order to get the condition in which we see somebody get infected and then become, then we must consider that the person that they saw who had hypertrichosis was a person who also had rabies. So maybe this guy in the woods has rabies, has hypertrichosis. He doesn't. He looks deformed to you, Harry. Everywhere, you can't really tell. Runs out he has rabies. He's crazy. Comes in, he attacks you. He bites you, freaks out, runs off into the woods. You swear that was a wolf man. You go back home, then you're starting to freak out. You're starting to have symptoms. The local alchemist comes and he gives you your toxic poison that's gonna make you worse than that guy who only had rabies. But now you're freaking out quicker and sooner and behaving like a psychopath. And they swear you're becoming a werewolf. Yeah, yeah.

Cristina: Yes, Yes, I could see that.

Jack: Now, there are specific circumstances that are very interesting relative to the story. And in the case of the woods, the brightest nights in the woods are full moons, because the moon is reflecting the most light back down to earth. Meaning you can see things in the woods, most likely during a full moon than any other time of the month. Meaning anything you'd probably already see anyways if you could. Yeah, you're just way more aware of during a full moon. And if there's people normally roaming the woods but you can't see them, maybe they live in the woods.

Cristina: Yeah, you're more likely to see them in the full moon.

Jack: Yep. Full moon comes through and you're like, they're out only during the full moon. Not really. They're always there.

Cristina: That's where the whole full moon thing comes from as well. Transforming during a full moon.

Jack: Yes, yes. It's just that that one is entirely circumstantial that that's happening. So the we can assume that the first delivery guy probably was making that delivery close to ordering a full moon.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And then that's why he saw what he saw. He heard the wolf looking into the woods. He saw a figure roaming while the other guy had less visibility. The full moon is gone. The delivery still has to be made. It's been a couple of days. We need to get this out there. People are too scared. I'm the brave one. I'll go do it. But now it's way darker. You have way less moonlight.

Cristina: Then you get surprised.

Jack: Then you get surprised.

Cristina: Okay, now you have.

Jack: With less visibility. You don't know what's happening, how long.

Cristina: That you're sick for and when you're at your worst. And then it just happens to be a full moon when you're getting really bad.

Jack: Yeah. Not only, only that, the possibility that you run off before any of that. Like they don't see you become hairy, they see you run off into the same woods they're accusing people of being werewolves in. But that place already has wolves. If by any chance wolves are hungry, you roam into the woods. One, they're killing you. Second, they're not leaving just because they ate you. So people are gonna be like became a werewolf. I can hear him out there.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So you ran off into the woods because you're crazy and irrational. Got eaten by wolves. But the number of wolves are still there.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So they're just associating the wolves they're seeing with oh, one of them is him.

Cristina: Yes. They're gonna think one of them are you unless they burn the body. I think they have to burn the body and then that wolf you will die too.

Jack: But that's way in the future after these stories become more prominent and everybody knows. So this is around the face that building solutions for the werewolf. We can't have them adding to the werewolves in the forest because it's going to make it impossible for us to travel if it's just packed with werewolves. So we got to dispose of anybody who's infected. Yes, that's where that solution comes in. Because it becomes a problem if everybody who goes out either never comes back. Which means they got killed or they became one of them.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And that also creates the circumstance where you are traveling in large caravans. So you build large groups, you no longer make deliveries as individuals. But wolves stay away from groups larger than their own because they don't want to be the prey. So when there's a ton of people together, the wolves aren't coming out to play. They're gonna f****** hide. Same thing happens with native tribes. They don't know these f****** white skinned people coming through. If it's just one of them and there's a f*** ton you, that's cool. But if they're roaming together with gun and f****** carriages, you're not f****** with that.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So in large groups they're safer. And then caravans form and they start traveling like that instead. So people only see werewolves when they cannot confirm that it is in fact not.

Cristina: So when you're alone, when you're.

Jack: Yeah, when there's either less of you.

Cristina: Or you're alone to actually investigate or yes.

Jack: When you're too scared to think clearly.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: That's when you're more likely to see a werewolf. And again, it's just an alignment of situations. A person with this condition could run outside, get rabies, behave like an animal. It could have been a slave that got away. They have dark skin in any of these cases. Any of them could have had liver damage, creating the yellow eyes. In the case of any dark skinned individual, whether it be the native or the slave, could have. You can see their teeth in the dark, even if their skin is dark. If it was a native, they have, using any of their tribal wear, they have large outfits that make them look disproportionate but still humanoid. There are many, many, many. And the woods equals wolves instinctively.

Cristina: Yeah. That's the biggest thing though for the werewolves is just you're surrounded by wolves.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, you're definitely surrounded by wolves. And that creates a pretty vivid picture for people. And the solutions that come as time goes by are just all a product of this. So we have individuals believing, just experimenting, essentially. You gotta try to cure them, you gotta try to kill them, you gotta try to. You do everything you can. This is where we bring in the scientists of the times. Which probably led to a lot of torture.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Because we think of like the Salem witch trials when the things they did there, this is no different, this is just a new, a new foe to them. You know, some new circuit circumstances. They got to learn to navigate.

Cristina: There were strange things we talked about that they do. Like the stabbing on the forehead.

Jack: Yep.

Cristina: We're cutting the skin to see if there's fur behind the skin.

Jack: That as well. Especially if it's somebody with a hypertrichosis. But they wouldn't have the fur inside, they would have it outside, which is.

Cristina: Yeah. So I don't think there'll be any tests. You. That person's a werewolf.

Jack: That person's a werewolf. Yeah.

Cristina: Test for that.

Jack: That person is definitely a werewolf. But this brings in another interesting point. This is unrelated to all those things, but related to the entire idea that there is a condition which makes a person believe that they are a shapeshifter. It's called clinical lisanthropy. And people with this condition, it's a psychological affliction which causes delusions of one having been or currently being a shapeshifter most commonly associated with werewolves.

Cristina: But that means that they also. There are some that have different animals in mind.

Jack: Yes. But now let's reassociate this with the story you hear about the Werewolf. Nobody thinks anything about it. The story flies through the town. Oh, he talking. Oh, no, that guy's crazy. He's always talking nonsense like that. You don't have to believe him. But then the second guy comes and he's like, I saw it. I was attacked by it. And then he, quote, turns into it, unquote.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Now the fear is in the town. There's f****** werewolves out there. Two different people in two different circumstances have seen it. One of them was attacked by it. And somebody can develop this condition out of fear. The trauma alone could make them believe.

Cristina: That they're aware that they're werewolf.

Jack: So they'll think I either got bitten at some point and I don't know, or something along those lines. And then they start freaking out. And then they start showing weird behaviors that they think are what a werewolf would do, then causing other people to panic.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Now this leads us into a circumstance where we have somebody who is not transformed but claiming to be. Probably even claiming to have gotten bitten.

Cristina: Or maybe he drank that wolf water.

Jack: Well, that's a weird one. But you don't have a full moon yet, and that's usually when you see them. This person hasn't transformed and there hasn't been a full moon yet. Now you start making these sort of unnecessary associations of there hasn't been a full moon, they're bitten, they haven't turned, and that's the only time we see them. Do they only turn during full moons?

Cristina: Oh, okay, yeah.

Jack: You're starting to connect all the dots. So what? The people who catalog these things. Things, they start connecting random f****** dots. And it's like the first sighting during a moon during full moon. Second and third sightings during full moon. But the attack happened during a regular night, meaning the full moon turned them. And then they had. They were already this in the woods, just roaming aimlessly so they afterwards couldn't go back. They turned during the full moon, which is why we see more of them then. And then they're just out there stuck in this form.

Cristina: Okay, and then. But then why isn't this one like.

Jack: Because there's no full moon yet. That's where the panic starts. That's probably why they are more likely. We got to figure the salute, we got to solve the problem before the full moon. Or kill them.

Cristina: And then they end up killing.

Jack: Then they end up killing them. This is where the experimentation phases come in, where they end up stabbing somebody in the f****** head.

Cristina: Burning them alive.

Jack: Burning them alive and things of that nature.

Cristina: Where does the silver come from just a random torture tool that just got on, like, catch.

Jack: That's a weird one, right?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Now, in thinking about this whole shapeshifter thing, I started digging into that, trying to find out if there are any creatures in nature that shapeshift that have the ability to shapeshift. To my disappointment, there is no land creature that could do it. The closest thing is a frog that changes its color at will and some reptiles.

Cristina: Yeah, but what about butterflies? I mean, a caterpillar turning into a butterfly, that's pretty shape shifting.

Jack: No, I mean like actively changing its shape. Okay, that's your butterfly. Your butterfly, yeah. Saying like swamping from one to the other. And the only examples of this in nature are cephalopods, which include octopuses, squids, cuttlefish, and nautilus.

Cristina: So they're all very similar.

Jack: Yeah, they're all pretty, pretty similar. They imitate their environment. They change their body shape by aligning because they're boneless. They get kind of like assort themselves in weird ways and they all have the capacity to change color.

Cristina: That helps. I guess that helps.

Jack: Yeah. But there doesn't seem to be any examples of this in nature other than those things. There doesn't seem to be land versions of these creatures.

Cristina: There's no Boo. That's so sad.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's definitely problematic because there is the lacking of where the original idea of a person turning into it come from. Because the best we can do is assume somebody saw a wolf or heard a wolf and then saw a person.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It makes more sense if he saw somebody with hypertrichosis. So you hear a wolf and then you see maybe a Native American wandering the woods. And you can tell them very easily, but they're covered in fur, including their face. And you're like, that's what I saw. Heard howling. That's a wolf, man. Whatever the f*** you know.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So I don't entirely have any other path there than that because there is no shape shifting in nature, per se.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But that brings us to an interesting detail though, which is at the end of your episode, we got to the conclusion that it's completely possible that a werewolf and a vampire are similar and a not just similar, but probably the same creature.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: We're talking about a creature that either drinks blood or eats people. In every one of these instances, the werewolf, it took us getting to the story of somebody seeing bodies at war that were drained of blood. The vampires are commonly discussed as showing up in the middle of nowhere and biting somebody.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And the chupacabra very similarly goes and drains animals that it can of blood.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Doing like looking into this, the, the most interesting connecting line here was lysanthropy, which makes people believe that they are a shapeshifter. And that's fascinating because it's common most commonly for a werewolf.

Cristina: That's very strange that it's most commonly for a werewolf.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Most commonly that they believe they're like half dog or something. But at no moment does it prevent them from thinking they're becoming a different type of dog or creature. Four legged creature. They're turning into some other s***, maybe even a bat sometimes. Who knows what they think they're turning into. It's the fact that these people believe they're turning into something.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And that's a common thread between all those things that I found particularly interesting that they could all root back to this condition and rumors of this condition.

Cristina: It could be all on this. Wait, do you mean like vampires and chupacabras could somehow.

Jack: If they. If it's not all real. But they are all so similar. It's either the regional differences of everything. If we think the difference between a Sasquatch, Bigfoot and the Yeti, it's like the same creature. You're just talking about different places.

Cristina: Yeah. You know, in some places though, instead of werewolf, there's like were hyena or were, you know, other creatures.

Jack: Yes, yes. I'm thinking that a werewolf to the west is a vampire to Europe the same way that a Chupacabra is to the southwest. I'm thinking it's regional and they're talking about the same thing every time. The stories were because of the culture.

Cristina: And the area depends on what animals around them.

Jack: Yes, that's a big influencer, what they're likely to see. Why is it that the west is so prominent with werewolves, but wolves are so prominent in the west?

Cristina: Because they're scared of wolves. Exactly.

Jack: It's in the area you are where the thing came to be. So there's a wolf man because you're surrounded by wolves. But in the south there are other creatures. You live by jungles, you live by deserts, you live in very specific circumstances. So you're gonna have some not wolf kind of dog like thing happening over there. Sometimes they describe it even being like a little dinosaur, which is probably just a f****** lizard of some sort.

Cristina: They describe it as a dinosaur?

Jack: Yeah, like a little dinosaur. The chupacara. That looks.

Cristina: Oh, okay. Yes, yes.

Jack: Yeah. So it's probably just some sort of lizard of which they have f*** tons.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Because jungle's everywhere.

Cristina: Yeah. Whatever they're afraid of.

Jack: Whatever they're afraid of. Whatever's in your region is most likely what your big bad monster is made of.

Cristina: Yeah. And people like before, though, I think it helped them explain serial killers with werewolves. Of the idea of, like, how could a human murder all these people?

Jack: Well, that's actually interesting, the possibility that it's a way to tell a story without making people inherently evil. Because we have a tendency of thinking we're superior, then we have to keep that idea moving forward. So even if we might know it was a person, we don't want our kids to know what's a person. So we make up a story and we tell them the story to explain things away.

Cristina: And we might also believe these stories because we don't want to believe we could. We're capable of doing something like that.

Jack: Here's where the twist of information that I mentioned at the beginning of the episode comes in.

Cristina: In what?

Jack: Because somebody makes up the fairy tale.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: But how long before. How many generations go by before you don't know where it came from? And it's just a story of something that did happen. And the person who said it probably even had that in mind. They come. They just tell it like it's real.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Then a couple of generations down, nobody knows where it came from. They just know it's a story about a series of events. Not that it's a fairy tale. Then you have this creature is real because these many people experienced it at these times and it's somewhere. But you gotta be careful. But really it's just a bunch of psychopathic murderers or tribe sacrificing people or some s***.

Cristina: Yeah. That's crazy. What if though? Well, now I wonder if there was also, like, besides blaming murderers as werewolves, maybe cannibals.

Jack: I definitely think that's a big one. In times when total crucial survival was needed. Anybody who's starving. Like there was a lot of cannibalism back then.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So for survival sake.

Cristina: But once that's over and they're still eating, then.

Jack: But also not just that. Like you could just be killed by a pack of wolves.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: You could just have been murdered by random pack of wolves while you're were making your f******. There was never anything. It was just wolves.

Cristina: But you find your dead body covered in fur or something.

Jack: Yeah. But people are like, you know, I can handle wolves, but can you handle a werewolf?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it could also be a tactic of getting people's stupidity in check oh.

Cristina: But you know, people still believe in werewolves, right? There are people who believe it.

Jack: What, today?

Cristina: Yeah. Like there was recently a dog or I guess a dog, a creature that they couldn't tell what the creature was, so they needed to take a DNA test of it because they didn't know what it was. I have the picture of it if you want to look at it.

Jack: Sure.

Cristina: This is the creature. And some people thought it was a dire wolf. I guess that's like an ancient wolf.

Jack: Yes, that's a very old wolf.

Cristina: I guess, maybe. But the DNA results was that it was a deformed female gray wolf. Deformed.

Jack: That's interesting.

Cristina: Yeah. Because it has oddly long gray fur, oversized claws and extra large head, which made them. Like there's something weird about this dead dog thing.

Jack: Like it's not like the others.

Cristina: Yeah, yeah. So that's why they were really. That's why they needed the DNA test because it just. It's just something off about this dead creature.

Jack: Interesting, interesting. Is it like larger than usual?

Cristina: Yeah, it's larger than usual. So. But its legs were too short also to be a wolf or a dog. They described it as. So I don't know, like everything else was big except their legs. So it was a really deformed looking wolf dog thing.

Jack: Interesting. I wonder what could have caused this mutation that made it that way. Maybe it had like cerebral palsy or some form of genetic disorder that caused it to be. Did. Did they ever see it alive?

Cristina: I don't think so. I think they found the dead because.

Jack: There'S a bunch of disorders that cause physical defects as well as some of them also cause sort of mental defects. So they could have probably told whether this had some human type of. Really. Because there's animals who've had mental retardation and there's animals who've had cerebral palsy and autism and things of that nature. So they could have perhaps been able to tell if it was alive and they could have seen its behavior.

Cristina: Maybe they. It was alive and they got too scared and decided, you gotta kill it before it kills me.

Jack: People panic.

Cristina: Yeah. It could be a panicky situation.

Jack: Yeah. This is what I found related to werewolves and the origin story of what, where it could have come from or what might have perpetuated the folklore in the first place. Like where did these stories really originate? It. It was probably a collection of circumstances because the probability that anything of this nature is real seems unlikely. Yeah, it seems highly unlikely that a werewolf would be real. It's like all the evidence is painting Pointing towards a collection of events sort of lining up in the right order.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But not like any singular thing could have all of these things all together in one instance. I think it's just circumstantial evidence and superstitious people putting two and two together on top of mixtures of drugs and diseases and fears. Fears. Weird timing. A bunch of put together equals what we know as a werewolf.

Cristina: Yeah. The conclusion is that vampires are cooler than werewolves, though.

Jack: No. The conclusion is the only circumstance that could make a werewolf be real by any means is that it's not a werewolf. The only possible solution for there being a werewolf. It seems like a vampire and a chupacabra are a million times more likely than a werewolf could be. Because a chupacabra is not just considered a creature. It's considered a creature that was probably made in a lab. That seems way more likely. And a vampire could just be a cannibalistic human. Human. Which is also something else.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But the werewolf circumstances. Iffy. It's hard to come across. And it seems like the only way that a werewolf could be is if the other two are also the same thing. If we have a bit of a shape shifter going on, then it could also assume the form of a wolf man or a wolf.

Cristina: But it's hard to prove anything about shape shifting.

Jack: It's hard to prove anything about shape shifting because there's zero evidence in that direction.

Cristina: No. Maybe they're just so sneaky about it.

Jack: How do you prove something is even shifted into a shape?

Cristina: Yeah. I don't know.

Jack: It just looks like something else. But. Yeah. So that's basically what's out there. That's. The possibilities are there's either no werewolf and an alignment of stars led to the stories being born.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Or people trying to explain things away or warn people without scaring them about other people. Made up folklore and fairy tales.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Or f****** shapeshifter. That's it. You're either a shapeshifter, You're a product of a fairy tale that somebody was just using to warn people, or a very specific alignment of events, including drugs and diseases and too many things. Yeah. That one's the least likely is the possibility that it's real.

Cristina: Yeah. Yeah.

Jack: A vampire in a chupacabra. A million times more real than the possibility of a werewolf. A werewolf is just very unlikely.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So that's pretty much what it is. There is no chance that's rooming. Anyways, if you guys enjoyed this, if you guys agree with that, that leave us a Message.

Cristina: If you don't leave us a message.

Jack: Yeah, either way, just tell us what you think about these things. Tell us what you think about werewolves and is. Is it a vampire? Chupacabra? Shapeshifty thingy? Is it an alignment of the stars? Is it a story, a fairy tale? Or do you believe maybe there are werewolves? And I'm up. So let us know. Anyways, you can find the podcast on the official website greatthoughts.info on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and anywhere you get your podcast.

Cristina: And you can reach us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Tick Tock at just Convopod.

Jack: Yes, and remember to subscribe and rate the show. Give us some stars of any amount. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 30, 50, 100. 150 f****** stars. However many stars you think we deserve. And review if you feel something so inclined.

Cristina: And let someone who might like this show know about it.

Jack: Yes, the power of word of mouth. You guys know. Tell people about the show. Tell them, hey, we just proved your crazy theory about werewolves wrong. Bob, you're talking about that werewolf in the woods. You're an idiot. Listen to this show. That proves you wrong. Or Bob, these people say it not, but you got photographic proof of a werewolf. Send it to them. Please do that, Bob.

Cristina: Send us the videos. This has been the Just Conversation podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening.

Jack: Bye.

Cristina: Okay, I'm hanged. So I died to this person.

Jack: But then, oh my God.

Cristina: Come back to listen to a newer episode. You're like, oh my God, she's still alive.

Jack: Hans, bro. Like that.

Cristina: Shocking though, didn't they? Well, it was in one movie I think where they thought his girl died. But then she wasn't dead. She just forgot her memories. But then bro, they do this. Converted her from the bad guy to the good guy anyway. And I don't even know if she gained her memories back.

Jack: I don't. Look, I don't even understand.

Cristina: She a new person who just. I don't fell in love with him.

Jack: Understand why this works. Wasn't a in movie reveal. They showed us this. What could be left inside that movie that's gonna blow our Brian.

Cristina: He's gonna come back.

Jack: He's gonna come back and it isn't even gonna be like his brother look alike. We're just gonna have Paul Walker in the movie. I like. What else could possibly happen?

Cristina: What is the point of showing us that? I don't know. And then it's crazy. Good morning.

Jack: Dub a dub. Dub dub.

Cristina: Good morning. The Just Conversation podcast is hosted by Christina Colazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by Great Thoughts info, art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McAllister with social media managed by Amber Black.

JCP 2.11.01 Thanksgiving & The Illuminati Attack

Dave The Klone, Thanksgiving, Illuminati, The Just Conversation Podcast, Guest

On this episode the philosophers are joined by Dave “The Klone,” founder of the Hollow9ine Podcast Network. The trio are on site at Government Con showing off their Jaws themed cosplay. There they network and find themselves sucked into the world of directors. Using their newly acquired directing skills they attempt to create something with strong commentary on Jehovah’s beef with snakes. Shortly thereafter the debate of whether Jehovah is Zeus’ brother or not breaks out. Just as the debate is getting too woke the Illuminati attacks the podcasting studio cutting the conversation with Dave short.

All that an more on this episode of The Just Conversation Podcast

The Hollow9ine Podcast Network