Rambling 227: The Wheel of Fame
/Who is the most famous person? What does it mean to be famous? Can it be ranked? The duo create a tier list in order to better understand degrees of fame following the previous week’s discussion on the same topic.
+Episode Details
Topics Discussed:
- Describing Fame
- Global Fame
- Local Fame
- Tier List
- Wheel of Fame
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+Transcript
Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.
Jack: Going live in 5, 4.
Cristina: What does live mean?
Jack: Welcome to the Rambling podcast. I'm your host, Jack.
Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.
Jack: And this is the show where we ground humanity's most absurdly baffling ideas. And today we have have a continuation to a conversation we were having last week where for some reason we landed a pond trying to figure out what level of fame qualifies giving a celebrity a certain grade and where they would land on that grading system. Celebrity being anybody who is known by a lot of people. But now there's different ways to be known. Now we decided we were going to make our individual tier lists of celebrities, fame, and then compare notes. But we're also going to form between the two of us as we discuss our individual ones. Yeah, I guess a mega list. The super band of lists.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: In order to truly understand the levels of fame. But these people are gonna move up and down as we truly nail down who's the most famous.
Cristina: And what does it mean?
Jack: And what does it mean? Okay, so we have them on this little wheel thing. And the wheel is gonna choose a name for us. Typical. What's. What's the show? What's the show with the wheel? And you spin it.
Cristina: Wheel of Fortune.
Jack: Wheel of Fortune. We're gonna Wheel of Fortune these names and then talk about them and make our super mega duper list. Yes. That's what we're about to do. So let's spin this wheel of celebrities made up entirely of the people you and I thought of.
Cristina: And I already spun the first wheel. So the winner is Oprah Winfrey.
Jack: That's interesting. I don't actually think Oprah Winfrey is global. That's just. Yeah, you know, it's really American billionaire type of thing.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: I think Oprah Winfrey easily lands in like a C tier, a sea tier. Yeah. I don't think she's global, man. I think there's a lot of steps before you get to her.
Cristina: Where. Where would be to you then be like, what would be in beats here.
Jack: In beat here.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: In my head, the way these work, S means you are known by a lot of people around the world. Just a lot of people in general. Everywhere there's a lot of people. Then A means you're known in specific areas around the world.
Cristina: Specific areas.
Jack: So you're known. Like there's a bunch of countries that know you, but there's a bunch of countries that don't. Unlike being an S, which It doesn't really matter where you are. You kind of know. So in A class you're known worldwide, but not everybody knows. But in S class you're known worldwide and kind of like everybody has at least heard of you.
Cristina: Yeah. Okay.
Jack: Then B is you're really famous in one place and you have some small pockets around the world.
Cristina: Okay. I can't prove that about her. She is very moon here. For sure.
Jack: For sure.
Cristina: But I don't know.
Jack: I think she lands in C. I had her at.
Cristina: I think I had her in B. No, I had her in A.
Jack: You had her in A?
Cristina: There's now kind of doesn't make sense. I. I kind of agree with you. Like she's not that famous.
Jack: Yeah, I don't think she's that famous. But do you agree with how I'm laying them out?
Cristina: Yes, but also I just don't think she's that famous. She's not like she's definitely not worldwide. Like I'm not sure about B and C and like worldwide versus worldwide, but everyone. I don't know, it's a little tricky. But I just know she's not that.
Jack: Basically A, B and C. I mean S, B, S, A and B are all worldwide, but different levels of it.
Cristina: Yeah. So.
Jack: And then you stop being worldwide. That just means you're in your country or a country that isn't yours, but you're famous somewhere.
Cristina: So C it is. I think. Okay, I'm go with C2.
Jack: I. I think that's the correct choice.
Cristina: I don't know. Like now like maybe she can be D. What is D?
Jack: D is you're just known in a small area. A city. You're known locally. A couple of cities.
Cristina: Okay. More famous than that. She pretty famous, but it's just local. I.
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Okay. So now let's get the next name. You see, we managed to get that down. We agreed on the. On the rules here. So the hope is that we can sustain it.
Cristina: Kajima.
Jack: Became developer. He was not on my list. Hideo Kojima. That's interesting. I think Hideo Kojima is a B class celebrity because he is known globally. But in certain areas was the result.
Cristina: That in A, again, isn't A the small area or no.
Jack: Yeah. So if he were A, it would be like a bunch of countries know him a lot. Like he's super big there. Like Hasselhoff is just big in random places. Oh, just huge around the world.
Cristina: He's A S. Because there's place people.
Jack: Who don't know about him. But where he's known. He's f****** known. While Hideo Kojima. He's really big, but where he's big, he's known kind of specifically. Those people are really specific people who know who he is.
Cristina: Yes. So that would be B. I originally had him at A. Also. I don't know if Hideo and Oprah. So let's see.
Jack: Yeah. Because he's still huge in his own country, and he's huge in the United States.
Cristina: But everywhere, I guess.
Jack: But not everywhere. And even then, he's not. No, exactly.
Cristina: And celebrities know him.
Jack: But those would be the pockets here and there.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Small groups of people.
Cristina: Famous to famous people.
Jack: He's famous to famous. That's. That's actually kind of amazing. He's famous people's celebrity.
Cristina: I'm so good. I think B does work, though. I hate that your rules make sense. It does make sense. I'm trying to understand B and A still a little bit, but I'm. I'm getting it. Okay.
Jack: All right, let's roll this again and see who we get. The Wheel of Fame. That's what this is gonna be called.
Cristina: Wheel of Fame. Wheel of Fame, Yes. Is it another from my list? Bts?
Jack: I actually had this on my list.
Cristina: You had them on your list?
Jack: On my list.
Cristina: Okay. Their world famous. You don't even have to know anything.
Jack: No, I have to think about this. I have to think about this. I had to think about this a lot. And I do think they're a. Not us. I think they're a. For one reason. They're known globally and they're known, like, heavily. But there's two issues going on. One, they're. They're like Hasselhoff. The amount that they're known is subject to their location. They're huge in really specific places. Second, they're huge to a specific group of people.
Cristina: Yeah, huge.
Jack: Because there's many of them. But a specific group of people. Grandparents don't know who the they are.
Cristina: That's how you're gonna. You have to Every age ring. That age ring.
Jack: Yeah. I had to. I had to think about it. Like, could I ask. Somebody doesn't know who you are.
Cristina: Okay. But he's. They're a. Right.
Jack: They're a. They're a. Yeah. If I can ask anybody and anybody would know who you are.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: You're s. Okay. S is hard to get into.
Cristina: I actually did not have them on my name. I had them originally, and I removed them for someone else because my list was just getting too long.
Jack: BTS An A class level of fame.
Cristina: But I think who I replace them with is someone equally as famous. But we'll see the next person.
Jack: All right. Spinning the wheel. I wish we had the. The sound effect for it.
Cristina: There probably is. Huh?
Jack: Alex Gray.
Cristina: Alex Gray. Oh, my gosh.
Jack: I think that's an easy. Like C. I think he's real big in the United States, and he's either C or B. Like a low B?
Cristina: No, C, maybe.
Jack: Because I think he's still famous enough to be known globally, but by small groups of people who are specifically seeking him out. I don't think there's anything huge. So I do think he's probably leaning more towards A. Yeah. Like a low B. So that makes him a C. I.
Cristina: Would say C. I'm feeling C. Like, I really like him, but I don't think it's.
Jack: His level of fame isn't colossal.
Cristina: I don't think I know anyone else.
Jack: People know his art more than they know him.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: That's how serious it is.
Cristina: Yeah. That was your choice, because I don't think I picked him. Yeah. Okay.
Jack: That was mine. So Alex Gray was a. Is. He is not that. Alex Gray is a visionary artist, really successful one. Also owns a museum called the hall of Mirrors, which is a psychedelic church.
Cristina: I don't know it's a museum, but it's. And there's worshiping there.
Jack: Yes. And he's also a psychonaut who explores the innards of his psychology. And so his art kind of shows that, too. He's very spiritual, very connected to the oneness of the universe. And this idea of a very pure Zen Buddhism. So he's way into that. And so, yeah, that's Alex Gray.
Cristina: And you're a fan of Alex Gray?
Jack: I'm a big fan.
Cristina: Like, I'm a fan of Hideo Kojima. Okay.
Jack: Alex Gray is my personal favorite artist. Okay. The next individual on the list is Hitler. Hitler.
Cristina: I had him on my list. I don't know if you had him on your list.
Jack: I did have him on my list, and I also believe that. Oh, no, I didn't have him on my list. I thought I would.
Cristina: And then you. What? You were.
Jack: Then I forgot.
Cristina: Oh, you.
Jack: Hitler's S. Easy. I think Hitler's S. You know what?
Cristina: I don't even know where I put him.
Jack: I think Hitler's an S class level of fame. Everybody knows who the h*** Hitler is.
Cristina: I put him in B.
Jack: Earth.
Cristina: I play him in B. Because he's so unlike that people probably forget, like, want to forget that he was the thing you know?
Jack: No. Nobody will ever so known. You can ask strangers about him and they just want to exit the conversation immediately. And it doesn't matter where you do it. If you just bring up Hitler. Everybody was involved. He was fighting.
Cristina: Like, everyone knows his name.
Jack: Everybody knows his name. And everybody knows what he did. That's like something that everybody teaches no matter what side you're on.
Cristina: Yeah. Like there's.
Jack: There's no escaping it.
Cristina: Everybody deserves to be an escort.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: I'm surprised that you didn't have him on your list.
Jack: I didn't. And I am actually surprised I didn't have him too. That's really impressive. I think I'm getting better as a human and my heart has grown several times.
Cristina: That's a lie. You talk about him all the time.
Jack: Yes, I do. I do. I talk a lot about Hitler.
Cristina: And the next one is Leonardo da Vinci.
Jack: Leonardo da Vinci. So I'm not sure if this is mine, but I was gonna put Leonardo da Vinci and I. I think I took mine out. I took out Leonardo da Vinci in exchange for someone else. So now the question is Leonardo da Vinci. How famous do we think this man is?
Cristina: Well, I had him in the S. Tier. I don't even know like, I know he's a famous painter. I know I And sculptor. Right.
Jack: He was a Renaissance man. You did all the things. He was a venture as well.
Cristina: Yeah. And I'm sure a lot of people know his name.
Jack: People know his name. Leonardo da Vinci.
Cristina: If he's not as. He's a.
Jack: He's definitely a. I think he's a for one reason. I think you can ask people about him and they not know his name. I think you could legitimately, like they've known of people like him. He could blend into the crowd.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Yeah. He's not one of a kind as well. That's another requirement to standing out so hard.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: This one of a kindness. This. You. You become a legend at some point.
Cristina: And he's not.
Jack: And he's not.
Cristina: I'm gonna play him at A. I think A is right.
Jack: You think gay is right?
Cristina: I think so. I don't think like just putting Hitler and S is already kind of like, you got some people down.
Jack: Yeah. Like he's way up there. It's like the level of known he is. He's amongst the most known people ever.
Cristina: That's crazy. I don't know how many other people. There should be a few other people at least.
Jack: I hope it's not just definitely a few other people like him.
Cristina: Arnold Schwarzenegger is the next name. I can't say his name.
Jack: Arnold. Yeah, Schwarzenegger. That's right. Schwarzenegger. Nagger. E, G, G, E, R. Negger.
Cristina: Anyway, that's. He. Come on.
Jack: He's very known, but he's not like. Everybody knows his name regardless of where they are.
Cristina: I feel like he's a world. No, he is.
Jack: But also he's an American action hero. That's very American thing. I do truly, honestly believe that there are people who don't know who he is. There are people.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Who just have no clue. And some people have seen him and don't know his name and. No, I think he's an A.
Cristina: He's an A. He's a B. No, he's a.
Jack: He could be an A, I think. Well, no, that. Well, yeah. Here. That's. I guess that's the next step. He is definitely a very American thing. So I think he's a B. He's really famous in the United States. Really? Like everybody out here and people out.
Cristina: There would know him if they're into those type of things.
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: Like Hiro Kojima.
Jack: Exactly. Gamers know about him.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: So yeah, he's. He's in that area for sure. Definitely be.
Cristina: Oh, yeah. Okay.
Jack: Yes. Now, who else do we have?
Cristina: Tiger Woods.
Jack: Tiger Woods. He is probably really, really American.
Cristina: That is. Yeah, Yeah. A lot of my celebrities, of course, are going to be really American.
Jack: Yeah, it seems to be the case.
Cristina: Like, there.
Jack: He doesn't seem like. Yeah, but he's not like super duper, mega, ultra famous. It's kind of a real American thing. Most of his fame is due to just American s***.
Cristina: But a lot of Americans, not just people watching golf, know him. Like, that's what makes him extra celebrity. Like, he's not d. Oh, no, no, no.
Jack: He's definitely a C class celebrity.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: He's as known as you could be before you break out and are known globally.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Because the problem is golf itself isn't like the most global of sports. That's a real white American sport. So a real.
Cristina: Like. Who knows anyone that plays? Do you know anyone else? Any golfer?
Jack: No.
Cristina: A name like, I think that makes him like anyone. I guess that's what really being a celebrity is about. Everyone knows your name.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: If they don't watch you.
Jack: Exactly. Tiger woods is really well known. So he fits the suit that's required for the most part.
Cristina: And then we got Britney Spears.
Jack: Britney Spear.
Cristina: Yes. I think that was me.
Jack: Man. She's like. She's down there, dude. Because I don't think she's like. She's not. Definitely not worldwide. And she's not like even in our own countries. Hella people who have no idea who that.
Cristina: You think so?
Jack: Yeah. Like the new generation has no idea who Britney Spears is. And like the really, really old generation has no idea who Britney Spears. She was always kind of specific. She was pop.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Pop is only for Whoever was about 16 when it happened, you know, so.
Cristina: Like kind of down there.
Jack: Yeah, exactly. She's like a. Like a D. D tier.
Cristina: Okay. Yes. Finally. I just want to put her in D tier. Just because we need someone in D tier.
Jack: Yeah. Just create that locality. That's all it is. She's local so she's specific pockets of people.
Cristina: Yeah. Oh, before I move on though, where did I have her originally? I probably had her higher than they though, but I'm not sure. Oh, B. That doesn't make sense though. That definitely doesn't. Next up is Stephen King.
Jack: Stephen King. This is a hard one because I don't actually know how like out there. His stuff is one. He writes in English and translating work.
Cristina: People know him more about. More for his movies. Yeah.
Jack: And then we're talking. Or his movies, like huge smash hits in the world.
Cristina: Probably not.
Jack: They're probably like real us stuff.
Cristina: Yes. So he's got to be C or D. Yeah. But he might be famous to two.
Jack: Different groups, which makes him really famous and probably breaks them out a little. So he might. Might actually be a B tier celebrity where he's known around the world, but by pockets of people. Because horror lovers and book readers.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Both like horror movie lovers, I guess. Horror lovers, movie lovers and book readers.
Cristina: We think outside this little place. People know him if they're into those things.
Jack: Yes, that's exactly my point. He's huge here in the United States and he has fans outside that enjoy his material.
Cristina: You know he's going into B. I do.
Jack: I do believe he's B tier. Yep.
Cristina: Bbb. Okay.
Jack: And which is interesting because I probably would have thought. My initial thought was that he was.
Cristina: Like a C. My original list, he was a C. The original list, he.
Jack: Was a C. Yeah. It makes sense at first thought, you know.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: But let's see who we have now. We have President Barack Obama. Interesting. Fascinating. I do in fact believe this man is similar to Nelson Mandela. He is a very, very. Because of his race alone, well known and to the point that I. He's either high A or. Or loaz. I think he's close to like being known by Everybody. Everybody in this country for a fact. And everybody in many other countries for a fact. The question is everybody in every country.
Cristina: Question mark. I don't know.
Jack: That's the real.
Cristina: I'm thinking about this because I don't. I do have him and I'm not.
Jack: Sure it makes sense. I think. I think he's an a**. I think he's up there with the best of them. Because I'm thinking the world is always talking about the United States. We're a show, bro. This is. This is huge.
Cristina: Everywhere they talked about Trump as much. Is he equal?
Jack: Yeah, I think so. I think he's also an S tier level of fame.
Cristina: Let me think about.
Jack: I think he successfully made himself that famous. I think these are really. We're talking about the most famous humans have existed. I think those are the two most famous presidents ever.
Cristina: I think he is us too.
Jack: I think it's hard to find somebody who's never heard of him.
Cristina: That's true.
Jack: In fact that's the best definition for S. If more than half of Earth knows who you are, how do you.
Cristina: Know Steve Jobs is next?
Jack: Steve Jobs. This is a weird one because it.
Cristina: Depends on who to American.
Jack: No, it's just really advanced countries.
Cristina: Oh people. But regular normal people knew about him. I think. I don't know.
Jack: Think about like a really impoverished country.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: With little access to technology. They got like TV and crap like that. Do they know who Steve Jobs is? They still know who the president is. Their president's probably always talking about our president and how horrible of an example he is. But do they know who Steve Jobs is? No. At the height of Steve's Jobs did that cross their airwaves even a little knowing they would never hold one of those things the president doesn't talk about.
Cristina: He's got to be a B at least, right? C B. I don't think an A. I don't.
Jack: Steve Jobs. He isn't super mega known everywhere. He's not super mega known in many places by mass. No, I think he's. Yeah, I think he's B. I think he's really well known in some places with pockets here and there.
Cristina: Yes. That's very specific to what he did.
Jack: Yes. Tech and like people who aren't into his tech just don't really know him.
Cristina: Yeah. Or people who just know that anything that's Apple related I guess kind of knows him like or about self smartphones. They have to at least know the name Steve Jobs. I think so.
Jack: Who revolutionized.
Cristina: Exactly. Yes. Yes.
Jack: And the next I Wonder if we're gonna be able to make it through this. Probably gonna be like a two parter.
Cristina: Ridiculous.
Jack: Oh, Michael. Michael Jackson. That's a complicated one. I think there's many people who don't know him, but I don't think it's like he's either losing or a high A. Whoa. I think the question is, do you think President Barack Obama is more known than Michael Jackson? I think no, you don't. I think you think Michael Jackson is more known?
Cristina: I think so. I think the world. Because the world likes music. Yes, he's known.
Jack: But there's many people who didn't get to listen to a bunch of music or they are only familiar with their own music and still know who our president is. You know, like it doesn't matter your level of poverty. You still know the politics of your country and that means you still hear about s*** shows like the United States, which means you hear about their leaders. So you still know about the President, but music wise, would you still come across Michael Jackson and. No, I still think we could find people sooner that don't know who Michael Jackson is.
Cristina: Okay. A tier.
Jack: I think. Well, I'm not saying he's not so I'm saying comparatively to the President Obama.
Cristina: But SB he's not a B. A. It's gotta be A. Yeah.
Jack: He's bare minimum. He has to be a high A or a low S. I think very well known in many places, but not everywhere. I think not half of the world.
Cristina: Not half of the world, but every the world that the people that do know him know that he's famous.
Jack: Yeah. Here's the thing. You have to be so famous that you are. You have to take the majority of most other places and still manage to take huge chunks of China and India.
Cristina: Like we have to know that he's famous there too. They would.
Jack: He would be famous there too. To these. This crazy magnitude. I am sure our president is, you know. Okay, easy test.
Cristina: I'm gonna put Michael Jackson in A.
Jack: You don't agree?
Cristina: You think S. No, I. I think, hey, that's why I'm putting him in A if I'm thinking B.
Jack: But I feel like, no, I think he's too famous for that. I think he's really, really exaggeratedly well known. I just don't think it's like a huge chunk like that. Next up is J.K. rowling. Okay. I think a lot of people don't know who the f*** that is. Like a lot of people.
Cristina: I think they do if they know her movies No, I think a lot.
Jack: Of people know about Harry Potter movies and still don't know who the f*** she is. I think a f*** ton of people know her movies and don't know who the f*** she is.
Cristina: Yes. Okay. Her work is more famous than.
Jack: Yes, she is.
Cristina: Except for the people that are hating.
Jack: Yeah. And the people who are superfans or.
Cristina: Read the book hate community. And she has super fans. But I guess they have to know then. But I guess. Yeah, there's more people that know about Harry Potter than her.
Jack: Anyway, she's B.
Cristina: She's gotta be. Yeah.
Jack: I think she's a B tier celebrity.
Cristina: I think so.
Jack: I think huge in couple of places and then some pockets here and there.
Cristina: Originally I had her in D though. Let me think. D. Because I guess the point is like, yes, her work is more famous than her.
Jack: Yeah. Way more famous. People don't know who that. I have never seen her face once. I have no idea what she even looks like.
Cristina: What did you say originally? B. I'm thinking.
Jack: No, I said she's crazy unfamous.
Cristina: No.
Jack: Oh, like what I gave her. Yeah, she's a B. I think she's really famous in a couple of places. And then have pockets here and there for people who like connect through your thing. Yes, I think that's it. I think she's B.
Cristina: Okay. Or C, because I had her at D and now I feel like I want to put her in the middle between where you had her and where I have her. But maybe.
Jack: Do you think she's only famous in the United States or in England?
Cristina: Just her name. I mean, because like when you say her things are more famous than her. Like that's around the world. That's around the world. And like, I don't. Yeah, I think Harry Potter is more famous than her. Like Harry Potter probably deserves B tier if he was a real thing.
Jack: No, Harry Potter would be a tier.
Cristina: A tier. Mmm.
Jack: Harry Potter is very known around the world.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Yeah. Harry Potter is huge in many places.
Cristina: She a B tier.
Jack: I think she's a B tier. She's really famous in a couple of places. And then has people who know her through her writing.
Cristina: Yeah, she's like, yeah. I guess if I compare it to like Stephen King's like.
Jack: Yeah, yeah.
Cristina: They're pretty much the same crap above him. Maybe. I don't know.
Jack: No, I think Stephen King is more famous. Stephen King has done it for longer and has a bunch of crap. He has. But he has writers on his own.
Cristina: Bigger than her.
Jack: Not by writers alone. He probably has a bigger fan base because he has way more crap.
Cristina: The next up is Pope Francis.
Jack: I think easy.
Cristina: S easiest. It's easiest, yeah.
Jack: Because even if you literally don't know the man's name, you still the man. That's how crazy he's on some other. It's like the ro. It's like royalty. If you are one of the royals, it doesn't even matter. Nobody knows your name. Everybody still knows you. Everybody doesn't matter who you are. You just know.
Cristina: Yeah, same thing with the Pope.
Jack: You don't even know who the Pope is at the moment, but you know there's a Pope at the moment and you know what he does and what he's about. Like, you get it? You understand? All right, next on the list, Mel Gibson. Mel Gibson. At this point, there's an obvious ones who are yours. Yeah, they're just like American sports or actors, essentially.
Cristina: I tried my best.
Jack: Don't hate to just come across. I don't even know how. I think just American, like, really American man. And I think that's maybe. I don't know.
Cristina: I know his name. That makes him famous.
Jack: I think that. Yeah, I guess he's famous, but like, I really think that's like a. Like a C tier type of thing. Real in the country, but I don't think in the world.
Cristina: So maybe a D tier.
Jack: C tier, yeah.
Cristina: Oh, okay. Okay, Okay.
Jack: I think he's very famous within the country and at most, maybe in some places around the world, but not like a lot of people.
Cristina: Yeah, not a lot of people. Yeah, I think mostly in the country. I'm trying to think he's not like Britney Spears, though.
Jack: I think Britney Spears is way less famous than Mel Gibson. I feel like Britney Spears is very niche. Mel Gibson. Crap. Tons of people of all ages knew him.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Britney Spears. Yeah, he's still alive.
Cristina: Okay, cool. Next up is Jay Z.
Jack: Jay Z. Just keep throwing. Keep throwing them in B. I mean, in C.C. keep throwing.
Cristina: Someone's gotta join Britney.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: Jay Z doesn't go there.
Jack: I guess he would, right? He's real specific music. Then I think people still know him even if they don't like him.
Cristina: Really? That's the problem.
Jack: I think he's real. I mean, like, grandparents would know who he is. Fair enough. Like in the same country.
Cristina: So we're going with SIRD Yeah, he's.
Jack: D. He's D. He's groups of people.
Cristina: Yeah, look, we gotta have some Ds, okay.
Jack: Mel Gibson.
Cristina: And how many, like, outside of America would be like, did you come up with any Ds that are not famous here? Like.
Jack: No, not really. That would be hard, Right?
Cristina: Exactly.
Jack: We need to be there. CND are gonna be mainly around here. Ye.
Cristina: It makes.
Jack: But, like, why didn't you think of more famous people? People with higher levels of fame is what I mean.
Cristina: I have. And you thought of them, too. And I. What about Hitler? You didn't even think of Hitler.
Jack: I didn't think of Hitler. Okay. Yeah. No, but that's what I'm referring to. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So Beyonce.
Cristina: Beyonce's next, I don't think. My choice, of course.
Jack: I think C or D. C or D?
Cristina: You think she's above Jay Z?
Jack: I think Mel Gibson needs to be brought down right now.
Cristina: Yes, Finally. Okay, but then what about.
Jack: And Beyonce goes down there, too.
Cristina: Okay, you know what? Okay, so.
Jack: And then I think Alex Gray as well.
Cristina: Alex Gray. You know, are we understanding Seymour? What's happening?
Jack: Yeah. I think C is really, like, everybody in your country knows who you are.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And we're dealing with people who only specific groups of people know. I think Tiger woods also goes down.
Cristina: Tiger Wood.
Jack: I think C is the one that's empty, man.
Cristina: No, we have the opposite problem. Is Oprah Winfrey staying there? At least leave Oprah alone.
Jack: Yeah, we'll leave Oprah for now.
Cristina: For now. I don't know. Because I think so. Like, we don't even know. We know she's a famous talk show host. But she's so famous.
Jack: Yes, exactly. Like, everybody knows her one way or another. The question is, then, is Oprah more famous or less famous than J.K. rowling?
Cristina: Less famous.
Jack: Like, way less famous. Yes, we know that.
Cristina: For. I think Tiger woods might need to be moved up. Because. Even though. Because you know these other people for their music. Because you probably heard.
Jack: Ask a teenager who Tiger woods is.
Cristina: They won't. No, they'll know him. That he's a golfer, but they've never seen him golfing.
Jack: Maybe they won't even know that he's a golfer. Maybe some of them have never even heard his name. What happened with him was so long ago.
Cristina: Okay. Okay. Oprah. See? For now.
Jack: Yeah. People still gotta figure out Oprah.
Cristina: Yeah. JRR Token, another writer.
Jack: I don't know how famous this guy is. I've never.
Cristina: Lord of the Rings. Lord of the Rings.
Jack: I don't know how famous that is.
Cristina: I know. Not that. Yeah, he's. I guess he's the Automatic.
Jack: But, like, where is he from the.
Cristina: Lord of the Rings? He wrote it.
Jack: I know what he did, yeah. Where is the guy who wrote it from?
Cristina: Where is he from?
Jack: Yes. Is he British?
Cristina: I have no idea where he's from. I know nothing about him. Except that he made that.
Jack: So then he's at least bare minimum B tier. Because you know who the h*** he is.
Cristina: Because he's. If he's from outside the country. Yeah, but if he's from the country, he's not B.
Jack: Well, not by the measurements we're making.
Cristina: South Africa, United Kingdom. So he's. He's South. Wait, he was born in South Africa, died in the United Kingdom.
Jack: Okay. Yeah. So 100% that is a writer. That is a B tier.
Cristina: B tier. But not a C tier.
Jack: But not a C tier because it's not just famous within his own country.
Cristina: Okay, okay.
Jack: Slowly moving through it. Stephen Hawking. B Easy B. Really famous in a couple of places and then known sporadically throughout the world for what he's done.
Cristina: B. B, yes. Wait, you said B, right? Yeah, yes. Not A, Not.
Jack: Not A. I don't think he's massively known everywhere. I think there's a lot of people you can ask who he is and they'll be like, what?
Cristina: Yeah, I think B. B makes sense.
Jack: I think B as well. So far so good. But it's basically my. My thing makes perfect sense is what we're arguing.
Cristina: Yeah, I think so. I'm happy with it. Van Gogh, Vincent van Gogh. Where does he go?
Jack: Oh, his work is globally famous.
Cristina: It is. But Leonardo da Vinci was that.
Jack: His work was globally famous too. How low is da Vinci? The question is, do they know his name?
Cristina: So he might be an A too. Do they know his name?
Jack: Go. That's the question. Right. Because if the work is eclipsing them.
Cristina: That would be B. That would be. Yeah, I don't know. I think he's an A.
Jack: The good thing about something like Stephen Hawking is that they're tied together. The scientist seems to be tied to the work always. But in the case of somebody who did something artistic, for whatever reason, they could be outshined by their art.
Cristina: They could be a B. I don't know what B.
Jack: We'll make a case for it.
Cristina: I'm trying to remember the difference between A and B.
Jack: B is where you are well known in one place and then pockets of people know you for what you've done around the world.
Cristina: Okay, then. No, wait, That's A.
Jack: That's B.
Cristina: That's B. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. I don't know. I feel like his artwork, when it comes to Artists. Yeah, I think there are. Probably stands out more than the art is artists himself. Like, people aren't like, whoa, Leonardo did this? Or whatever. No, what's the name we're doing? Leonardo's up there. Should he be up there now? Like, I'm. I'm confused. Van Gogh, like, you probably would be more impressed by the art than the artist.
Jack: I would argue that Leonardo da Vinci was more known than Van Gogh's name.
Cristina: I think so. I think so. So I do think he's a B, Van Gogh.
Jack: Here's the problem. Being more known doesn't mean jumping down an entire class. You could be the bottom of A, you know. But is he that known?
Cristina: I don't think that known, though.
Jack: You don't think he's super known in many places? No, he's a little known in many places.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Yeah, fair enough.
Cristina: Yes. So B it is.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Interesting. It seems B is the most densely packed of the bunch so far.
Cristina: We Gotta find some Cs, though. Yeah, I would have thought most of.
Jack: My name is really famous locally. Another artist, Michelangelo, presumably in the same place. But I think Michelangelo lands closer to da Vinci than he does to Van Gogh because he is also a Renaissance man.
Cristina: He was doing more than art. Yeah, he's doing more than art.
Jack: I mean, wait, Michelangelo was just the painter?
Cristina: No, Vince, Van Gogh was just a painter. I think Leonardo da Vinci was doing more.
Jack: Yeah, Leonardo da Vinci was doing more.
Cristina: Yeah. Yeah.
Jack: But that's not what we're talking about.
Cristina: Oh, we're talking about Michelangelo. Michelangelo. Was he doing more? No, he wasn't.
Jack: He was just doing paint.
Cristina: He's just doing paint.
Jack: Okay, so yeah, you could throw them in there. No paint, no bottom.
Cristina: Yeah, very famous, though.
Jack: Yes, one of the most.
Cristina: And now Albert Einstein.
Jack: Albert Einstein. I think.
Cristina: Come on.
Jack: Now we're talking A tier. I think this is a person who is really well known in many places around the world.
Cristina: Very, very.
Jack: I don't think everyone.
Cristina: You don't think they just know his name? Like, most people don't know his name. A lot of people know his name, but not everyone knows because I feel like his name is so famous, even if they don't know what.
Jack: Yeah, they know. They could. They just use it casually. Oh, yeah, Einstein.
Cristina: Exactly his name.
Jack: So his name might make him an S tier. Fair enough. He might be so well known.
Cristina: Like, even if you're not into science or have no idea what he did. Yeah, you might know his name.
Jack: You have no clue and you still know Einstein.
Cristina: I'm saying he's an S then.
Jack: Yes, I agree. I agree with Einstein. And S makes sense.
Cristina: Yes, I think so. Yes, yes, yes.
Jack: Okay, next we've got Jackie Chan. B. B. I think he isn't super well known in many places. I think he's really well known in a couple of places. And then in pockets where people love specifically what he offers.
Cristina: Been two whole countries. Yeah. That's huge pockets.
Jack: Yeah, but it's still not even half. Unless he's wrecking those numbers out there in Bollywood.
Cristina: I don't know. What if he is? I don't know, actually. I have no idea.
Jack: I highly doubt it.
Cristina: Yeah, yeah, yeah. B tier it is.
Jack: I think you make sense in B tier.
Cristina: B tier makes sense. Yes. No, the next person is Samuel L. Jackson. Come on. A C now. No, I'm just joking.
Jack: He's a D. This is a D. I think Samuel Jackson is pretty well known. You think there's a lot of people in the country that don't know who he is. Like, you think he's a C? I think he's a C. I think. I think he's probably the only actor will ever see who's the C class.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Who's in the seat here?
Cristina: That makes sense.
Jack: Oh, but I think he's countrywide. Yeah. I think because he's constantly in something, dude. Nerds know who he is and jocks know who he is and action lovers know who he is and he's gonna do more romance. Miss. He probably like a million.
Cristina: He probably is, yeah. Interesting. All the things he's in all the things. We all know him.
Jack: He is definitely in all the things. Will Smith.
Cristina: Yes, Will Smith, another actor.
Jack: I think we are talking the very bottom of B. I think he's very, very famous in at least one or two countries, like where everybody knows. And then I think he's in pockets throughout the world. And pretty large pockets, I would argue, but not like predominant pockets where it's majority still like pretty good sums everywhere.
Cristina: Will Smith.
Jack: Will Smith.
Cristina: From what?
Jack: From his music. Oh, his music has been played. It's some of the original rap and it was family friendly and it kind of made the range.
Cristina: B tier.
Jack: Yeah. I think he's well known enough throughout the world to be B tier. I don't think it's like eight here. There's no. Not even scratching that. I think he's the bottom, bottom, bottom, bottom of B. I don't think it's just within our country.
Cristina: Johnny Depp.
Jack: B, B. I think B.
Cristina: B.
Jack: I think he might be at towards the top of it, though, I think he might be closer to, like, an A than Will Smith is for sure. I think that's. You think Will Smith is more famous than Johnny Depp? I mean, maybe.
Cristina: I feel like Johnny Depp is very American. I don't know about outside of American. Then for Johnny Depp, I feel like he's a C. You think.
Jack: You see, Fair enough. He could be.
Cristina: I think some of his characters are, like, very famous and they're outside the country. Like that dumb Captain Jack.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: But as an actor, I don't think he's as famous.
Jack: That's fair. That's fair. I'll take it. I'm too unsure to make a stand. I am too unsure to make a stand, so it doesn't matter. Greta Thornberg.
Cristina: Greta Thunberg. Thunberg. That's how I spelled it. I don't know. Whatever. I picked that person. I don't even know how to spell her name.
Jack: I think that Greta is V. She's known by, you know, people who love outrage.
Cristina: Yeah. Yes, she is.
Jack: People who love outrage are people who are addicted to the news. One or the other.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: It's about it.
Cristina: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's not.
Jack: Not, like, huge, mega, super famous individual.
Cristina: She's out there. She's doing stuff.
Jack: Next.
Cristina: Machine Gun Kelly.
Jack: Easy.
Cristina: D D? Yes. I don't think anyone. I don't know anyone who knows him, like, except for, like. Or. I know he's a musician, and the only thing I know of him is the thing that he did with Eminem or against Eminem, if you want to say, whatever that was, that mess.
Jack: But you knew of him only because of that thing.
Cristina: I didn't know of him before that thing.
Jack: Oh, word. Okay.
Cristina: It was outside of him that made him famous. Someone else brought him to the light. And then I was like, oh, okay, now I know that name. But before that moment, I had no idea.
Jack: Yeah, he's an EZD who's.
Cristina: Easy. D. Edgar Allan Poe.
Jack: Well, make the case, because I don't know.
Cristina: You don't know? I don't know. He. He's a famous writer. I know that's. I don't know. I would say C. D, C, D. He's not American. If that counts. If that counts, then maybe B.
Jack: How famous is he in the United States? That's the question. And I think very.
Cristina: As a writer.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: Yeah, I think he's pretty famous. But also. Wait, he is American. I think he is American. Does that matter?
Jack: Well, I actually think he's one of those considered to be Something like Shakespeare.
Cristina: Yes, I think of that too. But like, not whatever. Shakespeare is obviously above whatever we put him like, he.
Jack: They don't care that Shakespeare is probably only famous to English speakers?
Cristina: I don't know. Maybe. No. Are you sure? Are you sure he's only famous?
Jack: But again, he translate Shakespeare to, like Japanese.
Cristina: Yes. If they love plays. I don't know. But okay, when you say like that. But I think, yeah, still, Edgar Allan Poe would be lower than Shakespeare and Shakespeare is probably not as high as I thought he was.
Jack: So growl. And Poe is like a bee.
Cristina: So he's like a V. Okay. Next up is Snoop Dogg.
Jack: Snoop Dogg.
Cristina: Another bee, Another bee. I think this person we both had on our list.
Jack: Yeah, I did. And I had them as a B.
Cristina: You had him as a B? I probably had him pretty low. I don't know, but doesn't matter. A B, a C. I do want more Cs.
Jack: It's not about just trying to fill the category.
Cristina: I know, I know, I know. But he is a B because he's.
Jack: Very well known in some areas and has fans everywhere else.
Cristina: Everywhere. He fans. Fans everywhere. Yeah.
Jack: Slowly but surely picking out this list.
Cristina: We'Re more than halfway done.
Jack: Dave Chappelle.
Cristina: Dave Chappelle.
Jack: Another B.
Cristina: Another B. He is famous. Super famous here.
Jack: Yes. And probably in a couple of places.
Cristina: Probably a couple of places. No, his name.
Jack: He's probably really high B. Really low. A. Something like that.
Cristina: I'm gonna give him a B, though. Yeah.
Jack: It doesn't seem infinitely known. Easy. S. Donald Trump.
Cristina: Donald Trump. I guess we already talked about him. Comparing him to Barack Obama.
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: Which makes him an a**. Yes. Next up is Vladimir Putin.
Jack: Vladimir Putin. This is an interesting one. I do believe that this is at, as of now, an S class individual. There's probably people who didn't know who Vladimir Putin was. They just knew that there was a president in Russia. But I think now everybody. For sure, we knew about Vladimir Putin, but it's because the United States is, for whatever reason, highly obsessed with Russia. But other than that.
Cristina: But now he's worldwide. Everyone knows who he is.
Jack: Yes. He brought himself up to be. Because he still believes in the old school war that has everybody. Like what?
Cristina: Yeah, they're scared of him. And yeah, yeah, I think he says, I didn't think of him though. But yeah.
Jack: Vladimir Putin.
Cristina: Everyone's learned his name by now.
Jack: Yes. And Zelensky as well. Banksy. This is an interesting situation because it's really specific, but it's a really, really well known individual that Sells some of the most expensive art on earth.
Cristina: Very random artist.
Jack: Well, he doesn't sell the art. Somebody else does against his will. I think Banks sees a B. I.
Cristina: Was gonna say that. I was gonna say that. I think he's a B. Next up is Michael Jordan.
Jack: Michael Jordan, Yes. I think Michael Jordan is probably really, really famous in the United States and not too famous anywhere else. I think that's a real us thing.
Cristina: Us thing. That's ac. Yes, That's a C. I think so. I think he is super famous.
Jack: But in the United States.
Cristina: In the United States, yeah.
Jack: That's the important part. In the United States.
Cristina: Bill Gates.
Jack: I don't know. This is an interesting one.
Cristina: Is he more or less famous than Steve Jobs? He's gotta be. He's definitely more famous than Steve Jobs.
Jack: Yes. Because he's still alive.
Cristina: Yes. Okay.
Jack: And he gets involved in more things.
Cristina: He does. He does get involved. Like, I think more people know his name. Definitely.
Jack: The question is how many more people is he known in pockets throughout the world?
Cristina: He's in Africa.
Jack: Yeah. And that's about as far as it goes. Pockets around the world.
Cristina: Pockets around the world. Pockets around the world. Not a B. Yes, yes, yes, yes. But with Steve Jobs, that's kind of weird.
Jack: One is higher than the other. That's all it is. All right, one more and then we have to save the. The rest of them for next time because we won't be able to make it. Alan Watts.
Cristina: The last name.
Jack: I think Alan wants probably a B. He's very. He's known around the world. Not, I think, mass numbers, but collectively, yes. Millions of people. But I think it's like people. It's niche, but throughout the world.
Cristina: Yes. It's kind of like.
Jack: Everybody in B tier. Hideoko Jima.
Cristina: Okay. Yeah.
Jack: You know, Hawking, walking, like. Yeah, 100.
Cristina: Yeah. Cool.
Jack: Okay. Yes. We gotta like save it here and call it wraps because we are done. We're gonna go for our time. But yeah, I guess we were the obligation to continue this and put the. To fill out. The tier list is now among us.
Cristina: Among us.
Jack: Among us.
Cristina: That be. That B is ridiculous. But I feel like maybe that's what a tier list would look like.
Jack: Yeah. They would be like the more centered place would have more of them and the extremes would have the least of them.
Cristina: That makes sense.
Jack: Yeah, it works out. So. Yeah, I guess. Stay tuned for next week when we finish the tier list and you could see where our celebrities submit some names and we'll. We'll go.
Cristina: Yes, we'll Think about adding it.
Jack: We'll go down the entire list once it's done and we add everything to it. But yeah, send us names. You think of just famous people who would land maybe on one of the empty classes. Maybe people who are only famous within their country but nowhere else to fill out C class. Or people who are only really, really famous locally to fill out the D class. Or maybe you got some S classes that we're not even thinking about.
Cristina: I just thought of an S class that I don't think. I can't tell if they can go in or not because I'm unsure if they're fictional or non fictional. And I'm gonna say who it is anyway. Because we're not gonna put them in Mary from the Bible.
Jack: Mary. No, because we can't prove the Bible. We gotta assume they're fictional.
Cristina: Okay. Like, oh, Jesus. But.
Jack: Oh, well, yeah, but you guys can send us any of those names you come up with. You can send us those on our socials. Tw, Instagram, Tick Tock, Facebook. We're everywhere at just Convopod.
Cristina: Remember to subscribe. Right. And review the show.
Jack: Yes. And word of mouth is overpowered. So scream it at people, tell them about the show and tell them we're making a. A fame tier list.
Cristina: Fame mega tier list.
Jack: Yes. Like a super bad, super tearless super band.
Cristina: Yeah. This has been the Rambling podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Bye. Bye. Good morning. Good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by great dots.info art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McCallister with social media managed by Amber Black.
