Rambling 289: The Neighborhood of Paradise

Where is Paradise? What is the history of this mysterious place? What is the true purpose of this hidden Neighborhood Town? The duo finally deep dive into the most mysterious neighborhood in the United States. Nearly impossible to locate, almost no information about it and the strangest circumstances surrounding the area around the neighborhood. The truth about this place will be revealed.

Rambling 289: The Neighborhood of Paradise

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed:

  • West Milford New Jersey
  • Secret Dirt Road
  • Google Maps
  • Private Residency
  • Public Records
  • Personal Accounts
  • Resources and Food
  • Extremely Strange Details

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod

Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod

Instagram - https://instagram.com/justconvopod


+Transcript

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And this is the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas. And boy, oh, boy, our ideas can get quite, quite baffled today. There is so much baffling to happen, but this requires us to kind of unpack a little something that we've been dealing with lately. So in the previous episode, we were dealing with the Minotaur, a creature from Greek mythology, which turned out to just basically be some kind of freak show experiment.

Cristina: Two of them.

Jack: Two of them. The Toro Boban and the Minotaur, which are related and unrelated simultaneously, like they're brothers. Not the same thing. Although both creatures were discussed in mythology for God knows how long as one thing.

Cristina: That's pretty crazy.

Jack: Yes. Now, one of the things that we realized discussing these creatures was a pattern that we'd noticed before elsewhere, which was where these creatures were. The labyrinth.

Cristina: Labyrinth. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Jack: And the labyrinth is identical to a different location we're very familiar with, which is the house of this lady who was messing with ghosts and creating sort.

Cristina: Of made a labyrinth.

Jack: Yeah. Her house was a labyrinth. Slowly and meticulously built. She stopped contractors from coming in and assisting because she knew they couldn't figure it out. The way she needed it done was very specific. And so the labyrinth, although the construction of the labyrinth isn't specified, the purpose of the labyrinth is kind of clear. Opposite to the lady's house mansion, where the purpose of the labyrinth was not explained, but the construction. Yes. And we can assume one informs the other. We can assume that the labyrinth where the Toro Boban was was very meticulously built and that the purpose of the mansion being a maze was for the same reason that we're formed. The labyrinth is for that entrance, for the entrance at the center, the seance room and the entrance at the Minotaur Guards Y are one in the same, and, well, not literally one the same, but identical in use and purpose. And this was quite illuminating to find this pattern because it told us about the third location that we have maybe been looking in the wrong places this entire time.

Cristina: Somewhere in Clinton Road.

Jack: Somewhere in Clinton Road. Now, we've looked at the castle, we've brushed over Paradise Road. We've looked at the mines, we've looked at the woods, the bridge, the lake, and we just don't find what we're looking for.

Cristina: I mean, it could be in the mines. We have no idea.

Jack: It could totally be in the mines. But the mines are just connected to the castle.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it's all one somehow. And then the surface level, because again, the mines in the bottom of the castle are connected underground. And then the top layer is a jumbled mess of. You pop it in here. Come over there. You can see this over here. You can see that over there, a weird mess that kind of feels like the maze, but not exactly, because you're not popping in and out. You're not getting lost in this space and popping up in that space. Literally, you're seeing them. But there is a place that behaves like that that, again, we've brushed over, but never really focused on in great detail because the lady in white doesn't seem to be there. The boy doesn't seem to be there. It doesn't seem to be any particular experiments taking place there.

Cristina: But you hear children there, or at least your experience children.

Jack: Yes. And there's reports of that. Yes.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Which is not Paradise Road, but Paradise itself. The neighborhood town.

Cristina: An actual real town.

Jack: It's a neighborhood.

Cristina: Is. Yes. But, like, that's the. What you think is the hotspot. The.

Jack: I don't think it's a hotspot is what fits. Yeah, it fits the maze description. Because my personal experience in there was the roads were shifting. We took a straight line. We went on the dirt road named. We went on the road named paradise that became a dirt road and went into an indescript road that took us to Paradise. From paradise, we go in a straight line, no turns. We see houses to the left, woods to the right. We make it to what seems like the other end, do a K turn. So we're looking back where we started. Go in a straight line and don't find the exit.

Cristina: That is weird.

Jack: So a clean 180 back from where we came, except no longer was the dirt road. We came from there.

Cristina: That's such a crazy story, but has anyone experienced such a thing?

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: What? What? What? What?

Jack: Okay, Exactly. So let's unpack what we know about Paradise. So paradise is, as we know, located around Clinton Road in the West Milford, like, forest region.

Cristina: It's a small town in the forest.

Jack: It's a neighborhood that feels kind of like a town.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And the. I looked at this on Google Maps to kind of, like, try to zone in, and it's way specific. Now, in the Google Maps overview, you can't actually get a street view all the way through Paradise. Now, it goes as Follows Clinton Road, goes up the right side. You're just looking. You're looking at Google Maps right now. You got a square screen in front of you. To your right, Clinton Road is just going straight up. We're zoomed in, only on Paradise Road. So Clinton Road starts, and it just goes through the whole screen and keeps going. You don't see it. It's just the piece that you do see. And the beginning and ending out of your sight. Okay, Now, a random in the script road connects to Paradise. You can enter Paradise Road from another street elsewhere. Okay, Perfectly fine. And Paradise Road just kind of winds, goes around. It takes a nice little kind of left loop and then connects to a different town. Perfectly fine.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Now, between the left entrance of the town of the Paradise Road, the first, whatever the f*** the name of that road is that connects, there's an immediate neighborhood there and the bottom entrance. So to the left of your screen, you would have one entrance. It goes right, winds down the exit to the bottom. It's very small road. The exit to the bottom connects to two roads. The one that connects to Clinton, and again, just another part of a main road somewhere. Mm, the left entrance. You cannot do a street view starting there. Now, you can see that whole neighborhood there from the Google Maps top. It's a visible neighborhood. And if you were to drop your pin on that road to the left, even if you can't get a street view going through the street into the neighborhood, you can see the neighborhood from the street. You can drop the pin perfectly fine. The other end at the bottom of the screen, you could drop the pin there, and you can go on Paradise Road about halfway up before, in Google Maps, on the street view, it just turns into a dirt road. Suddenly you're just moving, and it's paved, paved, paved. And then the pave just kind of ends and fizzles out. And now it's just a dirt road.

Cristina: And that's what you remember, a dirt road. Right.

Jack: It's not the dirt road I remember specifically, but I'll get to that. Okay, but this road just becomes a dirt road suddenly. And you can't go farther with the street view. It stops right there. You cannot move farther beyond that point. Now, this gives you a bit of a loop, begins loops, connects to the other side. The loop area starts at the neighborhood, goes, and then connects to where it becomes paved again, that loop area, you cannot see it on Google Maps from Street View. You can only see the road from Google Maps skyview from the top down. Okay? The road that's in the script that connects to paradise comes out of that side you cannot see on the street view. Additionally, the road that connects cannot be seen from the sky view because it's covered by the forest. Oh, I looked for it and I couldn't find it. It doesn't exist. It's there.

Cristina: It's there underneath.

Jack: Underneath the trees. It's such a literal dirt road. It doesn't exist from the sky view. And Google Maps literally doesn't allow you to explore it. To explore it.

Cristina: Maybe it doesn't see it as a road though, because you said it's trees.

Jack: It's trees. Yeah. It's covered by trees.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Very weird.

Cristina: That is weird.

Jack: Very strange. Who the h*** knows? Okay, okay, here's the literal view I'm talking about. So for reference, down here is Clinton Road.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: This is Clinton Road all going up. This is the road that connects the Paradise Road. There's many different ways you can connect. A little neighborhood down there. You can also see there's a little.

Cristina: Neighborhood over here, what's considered Paradise Road.

Jack: This entire thing is Paradise Road. Okay, now, weird fact right here. If I were to grab a little thingy. Oh, I can't. I gotta zoom in a little more. Let me go in a little deeper. But you see that neighborhood right up there, Right? It's visible right here.

Cristina: Okay. Yeah.

Jack: Okay, now you see what's happening here?

Cristina: I'm not sure what's happening.

Jack: Oh, my God. Yeah, I can't drop the pin in the neighborhood. I can't.

Cristina: The line is. It has to be blue for you to drop it in. Is that what's happening?

Jack: Okay, yes. And if I go down to the other end, I can again show you. Interesting.

Cristina: No? Yeah. There's specific, but it sees it as a road.

Jack: So I can definitely knows and it sees it as a road.

Cristina: Yeah, but you can't go into those towns. There's some towns there that looks like you can't look at the road.

Jack: Yeah, sure. That's totally fine. What we're looking at is paradise and specific. There's many locations you can't look at. It's. Why is this the specific location we can't look at? And you see how it was paved at some point. You can see that it's paved underneath it, but it's slowly getting more dirt focused as we go.

Cristina: Eventually it just be there.

Jack: Eventually it's just going to be dirt. It just kind of fizzles out deeper and deeper. And it doesn't matter the dark distance we go slowly but surely we hit this very point where it just completely becomes rocks.

Cristina: Oh, yeah.

Jack: Oh, it's just. It's just rocks now.

Cristina: It's just rocks. Yeah.

Jack: And now I can't even go. It just became totally rocks that the street fizzled out and I can't go farther.

Cristina: That's it. That is weird.

Jack: Yep.

Cristina: But that's still the road.

Jack: That's still Paradise Road. They could have easily just driven. It's still a road. It's a drivable road. It's clearly drivable. Why did the Google Scanner driver not want to go there? Who told the Google scanner driver, don't go beyond this point? And how does this make any sense if the neighborhood on the other end is clearly a functioning, elaborate neighborhood and you can jump into that neighborhood as you saw previously? No.

Cristina: Oh, I saw in the bottom. I wasn't looking up there.

Jack: Well, I showed you that there's no way onto here before.

Cristina: Oh, okay. Except for that one road. You can't go onto the.

Jack: You can't enter the beginning of this road.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Weird, right?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Now this is Paradise Road we're looking at. Somewhere on Paradise Road is the access road to the neighborhood of Paradise. This isn't the neighborhood of Paradise.

Cristina: It's not?

Jack: No, it's not. That's just a random neighborhood.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The neighborhood of paradise was so cluttered by trees that every house within a two foot radius had a fully grown tree directly next to it, which means its roof would be totally covered by trees.

Cristina: So you're saying it's there, but it's not there. Like we can't see it.

Jack: I think we can. And I think that's this circular formation we're looking at here. You can see little spicks of white in a circular formation going on. It's there, but it's hidden. Hidden.

Cristina: That's scary.

Jack: It's visibly in front of our face. You think you can see this whole little area right here fully covered by trees?

Cristina: Yeah. Except there's something in there. Yeah. What?

Jack: And that would mean that the access road must be directly in the area that we can't see.

Cristina: Weird. And we can't even check it out.

Jack: We can't check it out. We can't look at it. We can't do anything without going there ourselves. It would be impossible. There's no other way to investigate. You have to go there.

Cristina: So it's not even like a town we go find, but it is a real town.

Jack: It's there.

Cristina: We can see it there.

Jack: We can see it nice and hidden. We can't Tell where the road begins and ends.

Jack: There's no way to spot the access point.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But it's there because they must be reaching the neighborhood up here somehow. But I remember it being just the. We were just teenagers exploring, and we're like, hey, sketchy dirt road. Let's go on it. And so we did, and we landed at this place. I couldn't tell you exactly where the road is.

Cristina: No.

Jack: But I know in which direction it's going.

Cristina: It's impossible. It's impossible to see, like, how. You had to be there.

Jack: You had to be there. You have to literally be driving this road in order to find it to begin with.

Cristina: It's just. It's not there.

Jack: Yeah. And that road has no name.

Cristina: That road has no name.

Jack: No. Yeah. This is Paradise Road. And Paradise Road leads us to the dirt road, which is somewhere hidden in the woods. No markings. Google doesn't even recognize it as a road. Yet there's still a neighborhood we can see, covered by trees. There is a way there.

Cristina: Weird.

Jack: Additionally, if you look at Paradise Road and you look at Clinton Road, they're about almost equal distances from the neighborhood. In fact, the bottom part of the neighborhood is probably equal. Literally equal distances to both sides. So there might be more than one road in. Unless paradise is the only way. But that means we can maybe drive across Clinton Road and spot in that direction of road. But I did that and didn't find anything.

Cristina: And you typed in Paradise Road and it doesn't pop up.

Jack: No. Paradise Road is this road. Oh, you type in Paradise Road and it'll show you this.

Cristina: Yeah, Paradise, I guess. Can you type in paradise, though?

Jack: No, it won't tell you where the neighborhood is.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Now you can find information about the neighborhood online. Not a lot.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But the neighborhood is definitely written about and exists, and people have seen it.

Cristina: Yes, but on Google Maps, it does.

Jack: Not exist on Google. Well, yeah, exactly. It tries by any means to pretend this clear formation here, this circular formation doesn't exist.

Cristina: Very strange. That is very strange.

Jack: But clearly. Obviously. Obviously. Come on, bro. Obviously. We're looking at houses stacked in the middle of this.

Cristina: What else could that be?

Jack: What else could that be? In a perfect little circle, too. Yeah, Perfect little circle going on.

Cristina: There's something weird happening in those trees.

Jack: With the largest patch being in the middle.

Cristina: Weird. That's the church. No, that's. That is so strange, because there's something in the woods. There's something in the woods. You can see there's things there, but you can't see what those things are, we can't investigate.

Jack: We have to literally be there in person. There's no way to like weird, weird.

Cristina: Did it have. I guess on Google they have pictures of the town. Is it like very foresty? Because that's ridiculous.

Jack: It looks like it's people's estimated photo. Like it's not really about the town. It might just be neighborhoods surrounding it.

Cristina: Yeah. It could be abandoned town for all I know. I don't understand.

Jack: Yeah, it could totally be an abandoned town. It's odd in general.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It's a weird view right here.

Cristina: Yes. Is it abandoned? Do you know that? Do you know?

Jack: I don't know what to tell you based on that. If it is, you'll find out as we go through it. But details about this hidden, private, rural as all h*** neighborhood, as we know, located in West Milford, New Jersey. What we just saw, it is tucked away off of the infamous Clinton Road. Very close. But you wouldn't find that considering the area. And the only access point is off of Paradise Road.

Cristina: Yeah, that is weird. Okay.

Jack: Which becomes a dirt road suddenly. Now it doesn't become an undrivable dirt road. Any car, as you saw, any car could easily drive that road.

Cristina: Yeah, it's still a road.

Jack: It's still a clearly clear road. It's a dirt road, but it's not. It's not even bumpy. It was just nice and smooth.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: It's just an unpaved, very smooth road. Any car could easily traverse it. Yeah. And on the other end, it's paved too. It just becomes paved again. It's really just going through this one patch that whoever decided we're gonna pave the road also decided we're gonna stop paving it right here.

Jack: Weird.

Cristina: There has to be reasons for that.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Yeah, super strange. You just decided out of nowhere we're just not gonna finish paving it. We're going to ignore that other neighborhood, not pave through it. And the entire. Just for whatever reason, we're not going to finish connecting it.

Cristina: That road is in itself some weird mystery. Something's happening on that road.

Jack: Strange, right?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Okay. So weird. It's so weird. It just becomes a dirt road that leads to a hard to find access road that we couldn't find from the top. And I know it was weird when we found the access road the first time. We're like, oh, weird dirt road. A legitimate dirt road that just goes where? Let's find out.

Cristina: Yeah, okay.

Jack: Strangest thing ever. So the road, the access road that comes off of paradise, it has no marking. So it's basically a nameless road. That's why we just refer to it by Paradise Road. Because Paradise Road is the only road connecting to it that has name.

Cristina: Okay. But it itself isn't really.

Jack: Yeah, we can assume. Yeah, it's just a random, like, connecting road, if anything. So really, the only way to the neighborhood is Paradise Road. And then this indescript, unnamed, hard to find other road.

Cristina: Mystery Road. Okay.

Jack: Yo, that's beautiful. Mystery Road.

Cristina: All right.

Jack: Interesting. Mystery Road can only be accessed through Paradise Road.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And additionally, Mystery Road is particularly difficult to locate at night because of its completely covered up nature. It's swallowed alive by the surrounding foliage.

Cristina: It's so strange that you even stumble upon it.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, it really is.

Cristina: Because your goal wasn't to go on to Paradise Road or anything. It was just.

Jack: It was just Clinton Road. And we were just trying to scare each other. And we found this other road, jumped on it, and then we somehow found this other. And then before long, we're in Paradise. Yeah, we do remember it. When we get into the neighborhood, there's a sign that says welcome to paradise. That we do remember. And then following that, sinuses beware deaf children. And somebody, you know, sketchly cross one out or whatever. Dead children. But that's really weird. Just getting to it is odd. Just seeing it is weird.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And like we just saw, you can follow it. You can follow paradise and it will not continue weird.

Cristina: But it's weird.

Jack: Suddenly becomes a dirt road weird. And that's less weird than the Google scanner. Just not driving it. Dude. So many dirt roads you have driven. This is the shortest patch ever of dirt road that you could possibly drive. It would have been the easiest job completion ever. It would have taken you three minutes.

Cristina: I don't know, maybe it wasn't. It didn't want to because, like, the. The places in a forest, like, even if they laid that out, you wouldn't see anything. You just have lines in the forest. Right in the Google search.

Jack: Well, no. Why. Why didn't he. Complete driving Paradise.

Cristina: Oh, paradise itself.

Jack: He didn't have to go off of Mystery Road. He could have just kept driving Paradise. It would have taken him three minutes.

Cristina: That's true.

Jack: There's nothing in the way. It's just a dirt road that connects right back to the rest of the town.

Cristina: Because you want us to see Mystery Road. I guess. I guess that's why I was. I don't know.

Jack: It seems like they're protecting that road. Right?

Cristina: Like, even if there's no Reason to go onto that road.

Jack: It's weird.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So definitely cannot be found without going there personally. Already the strangest part. Mm, weird. All right, next. It's primarily a residential area. Paradise Town, the neighborhood town. Now, it contains no business structures, no markets or anything of the sort. It's purely residential. People just live in there.

Cristina: Okay, that's a little weird, but I mean, it's not weird.

Jack: You're surrounded by mad neighborhoods with stores and stuff. And I'm sure a downtown area isn't not too far off. Yeah, it's very countryside where, you know, we all live over here, and I got to drive 20 minutes in the town to get to buy groceries or whatever the f***, you know, that kind of thing. So they kind of just live in there. And the roads of the neighborhood are paved. I remember that specifically. The roads inside the neighborhood are paved, which means people came to pave, stopping short on paradise just to block off that part of the dirt road.

Cristina: And that must be another spot that you enter the town through. Maybe.

Jack: Maybe. And then. But it's not Clinton Road, because I click through just following. There's not one moment in which a road goes left. There's nothing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And I looked carefully.

Cristina: Strange. Okay. I don't know what.

Jack: But the neighborhood is paved, Meaning somebody came to pave in the neighborhood and just close enough on paradise, but didn't finish paradise or Mystery Road.

Cristina: That is weird.

Jack: Weird pattern. Immediately reminds me of the lady who made the mansion where she let people do some parts, and it was like, no, get the h*** out. I got it. The specifics require me to finish these parts.

Cristina: Mmm.

Jack: Very reminiscent of that.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Of like, nah, I don't need your help anymore.

Cristina: Interesting.

Jack: Weird. Weird. Just looking at this stuff now, because of this nature, even if the neighborhood is paved and most of paradise is paved, it kind of makes the neighborhood exceptionally reclusive and exceptionally isolated from the rest of the world because you'd have to know where to find a dirt road.

Cristina: That's like, how do people even end up moving in there? Huh?

Jack: And another detail is that the primarily residential area has less than 50 homes total. Very small.

Cristina: Less than 50 homes. Wow. That's a small.

Jack: Tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny.

Cristina: It's not a town, though. It's. It's just a neighborhood.

Jack: It's just a neighborhood. But I will continue to call it a neighborhood town because of how removed it is. Yeah, it feels like a town.

Cristina: Yeah, it does.

Jack: Even if it's a neighborhood, it's weird. It's got already a weird vibe that makes it hard to describe in general, but it formed in the early 1950s.

Cristina: 1950S, that's when all that weird stuff was going.

Jack: That's when all the weird s*** was going down. Of course, for reference, I've got the timeline right up here, so we can focus on the things that happened around the 1950s. So leading into it, in 1950, 1952 specifically, was the first reports of the satanic rituals that were happening. 1955 is when the investigations were demanded by the mayor. Previous to that, 1939 was when the sketchy deal took place. So these are the events surrounding the formation of Paradise Road. Not Paradise Road, of the neighborhood of Paradise.

Cristina: Yeah, but who are those people? Where did they come from? Are they part of these cults? Are they part of the water park, whatever they're called?

Jack: Yeah, weird. Weird. Now, paradise formed in the early 1950s and is composed of residents with a tight knit generational like lineage, so that their families today, the people who live there today, they're related, have been primarily related. So this house belonged to my dad, that belonged to my grandma, and I've lived in this neighborhood always. People don't move in, people just live there.

Cristina: Strange.

Jack: People move out. Nobody moves in.

Cristina: But how did they get there? How did they get there? How?

Jack: At some point in the 1950s, they went in there.

Cristina: I know, but like, strange, strange.

Jack: So another weird part is that many of the residents have like lived there their entire lives. So they were born there and they just stay there until the day they die.

Cristina: But I wonder, like, where do they work? They're not there all day.

Jack: It's gonna get weird in a way that's gonna make it look that way. The entire surrounding area is covered by thick foliage, overgrown nature and unmaintained woods, as we've seen, making it impossible to see from any direction, even from on top. To locate through the dirt road, AKA Mystery Road and even access through Paradise Road. It's just invisible unless you know it's there. Yeah, the privacy of that is absurd.

Cristina: That is crazy.

Jack: It's just right there in the middle of New Jersey, invisible to the rest of the world.

Cristina: It's a mystery that you stumbled upon by mere chance.

Jack: Now, weird time based detail. The houses in paradise have extremely old designs, often appearing to be dated to the late 1800s design styles, with exception for a few that could be dated maybe to the 90s at the. At the latest.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So the late 1800s. Many of them look like they were built around that time. But that makes no sense considering the 1950s is when this neighborhood formed.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: With the most modern structures appearing to have been the designs of the 90s.

Cristina: That is weird, too. Like, why would they be.

Jack: So in the past 30 years, no advancement in the structures, which would make sense if you don't want to expand in the houses that are there. Just the houses that are there from now on, but still kind of chooses.

Cristina: To go back like that. Like 1800s.

Jack: Weird. Right.

Cristina: You're in the 1950s. You're not making 1950 styles or whatever is the end style.

Jack: Like, there are some houses that appear to be that, but the oldest structures appear to have a late 1800s kind of aesthetic.

Cristina: Weird.

Jack: Very strange. When we look at public records for this. Right. There is very few period that address the neighborhood of paradise specifically. There's no media mentions. There's no public events ever hosted, and there's no historical records. Private, private, private, private. It's also unclear whether all the residents of the neighborhood are American citizens or if they were just born and never registered. It's unknown how many people actually live in that neighborhood. Because people could have legitimately been born there, never registered, and they could just go to stores locally and stuff, and there'd be no reason for them to ever go into a hospital and, hey, I exist.

Cristina: That is. I don't know what.

Jack: And because we know people don't enter the neighborhood to audit.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Because nobody enters the neighborhood. It's unclear how many people actually live there.

Cristina: But it can't be many. Or can it be many?

Jack: Like 50 houses? If we assume three people per house. You got a lot of people already. That's 150 people.

Cristina: People move out, but people don't move in.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Is that true?

Jack: I don't know. We say multiple generations of people.

Cristina: Oh, yeah. They could just move into other homes that were abandoned.

Jack: No, abandoned home is if they just keep multiplying. We can't just assume extended families live in single houses.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So my grandma lives in the basement. My dad lives on the next floor. I got five kids myself. We all just overpopulated.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Weird.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: That's very strange that it's unclear how many people live there. It's theorized that many of the residents have been born and raised within the neighborhood of paradise and have not registered at a local hospital or city hall.

Cristina: But they don't, like, go to school either. Or at least unknown.

Jack: Maybe they have their own schooling, homeschooling. That could happen.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it basically just results in an impossible calculation. You can't tell how many people actually live in there. And I Have no say about this next part. But this has been claimed by people who have ventured through, which is that the residents aren't too kind to outsiders.

Cristina: But you didn't see anyone, so you wouldn't know.

Jack: I saw zero people.

Cristina: Except for the laughing.

Jack: Laughing that was on the way there. That was on Mystery Road.

Cristina: Oh, it could have been the people.

Jack: 100%. I saw nobody, though.

Cristina: That is strange.

Jack: We saw no one the whole time we were there. Not a soul.

Cristina: Well, people have seen people and they're just normal, un friendly people.

Jack: Unfriendly people say hi, they'll ignore people. That kind of stuff.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Now, the neighborhood is incredibly self sufficient. One of the stranger aspects of it is that it being purely residential. But rarely is anybody seen. Rarely. In fact, most of the claims of there being anybody weren't even about inside the neighborhood. It was from the few times that people have been seen leaving the neighborhood.

Cristina: Oh, my God. So no one goes in or if they have.

Jack: Nobody has seen anybody go in. People have only seen people come out and when they. Hey, can you tell me about the ignored? Hey, I'm kind of lost. Can you. Ignored.

Cristina: What is strange? People like their family. They're just. It sounds like, I guess what people picture, like hillbillies.

Jack: Yes, yes. It's very, very that. It feels like very like off in my area. But if you rarely see people coming in or out, where's the food coming from? Again, you'd assume they're going to the local stores. But nobody's seeing anybody coming in and out.

Cristina: No, but they're surrounded by woods.

Jack: They're surrounded by wood. Do you think they're hunting? I mean, I guess yes.

Cristina: They sound like those type of people. They sound like, yeah, they just live off the land and they live together as a close knit family.

Jack: Definitely has that vibe. Additionally, at the southern edge of the neighborhood, there is a barn.

Cristina: There is a barn.

Jack: So they could be growing their own food.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And hunting for the rest of it and growing the rest in the woods.

Cristina: They have seen people leaving.

Jack: They have seen people leaving. Nobody has ever seen somebody going in shopping. They could be shopping. Hundred percent. And if that's such a small number of people, then one person with a pickup can fill the pickup up with enough groceries, go in and not have to come out for a while. Mm, Totally solvable problem. But the barn would also fix it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And the fact that they're surrounded by so much thick foliage and woods will also fix it. They could just grow things in the woods. And that also means you could Just hunt the deer and hunt or whatever that's in there.

Cristina: Yeah. We can't even check if any of these guys have a job or anything possible. Yeah.

Jack: We know nothing about them. Right there in the middle.

Cristina: Just hidden. They're all just hidden.

Jack: Just hidden. Weird.

Cristina: That is very strange what is happening.

Jack: There now while the southern edge of the neighborhood has the barn, it gets weirder because it appears that there's a city hall like structure to the northern edge. City hall, they have a meeting point where there's governance or it would seem interesting.

Cristina: So they don't have. If they do have jobs there. No one really knows.

Jack: Nobody really knows.

Cristina: They might just have like a little society there.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: They're policing their streets, they're nursing their people there.

Jack: It could all just be. It's consistently described by outsiders as a self sustained and self efficient neighborhood. They don't require the outside world. Very odd. Now what's weirder about this is that you are in one of the most spoken of places in the entire country, yet you yourself are unknown. The castle. Everybody knows about the mines. Everybody knows about the road. Everybody knows about the lake. Everybody knows about. You're surrounded by all this s*** and nobody knows about you. That's the weirdest part about this.

Cristina: That is so weird. But they're so hidden. They're so hidden.

Jack: They are so. But this many people coming through all the time, you would think a lot of people go through that road. So why don't people going through that road consistently find Mystery Road and just explore? There should just be so many cases of, you know, people trying to scare each other or in the daylight, truly exploring. Let's go in the morning so we have the most amount of time before nightfall and we can truly get a look at everything out here.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: That would mean there's only three roads all of Clinton, top to bottom, 10 miles, no lights, no turns. That's one straight shot. You explored that. It took you no time.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Then you got the one turn into Paradise Road and you could travel all of Paradise Road. It would take you all of 10 minutes. And then in that time, how many people would find Mystery Road? It would be a f****** clusterfuck of people consistently finding Mystery Road and exploring that side too.

Cristina: Well, they only go there at night, so maybe it's harder to see.

Jack: I'm sure people go there in the daylight.

Cristina: I know, but just not the same number.

Jack: No, not the same number, but probably a s*** storm of people still. A f*** ton of people probably still go there during the daylight because they're too scared to go there at night. Okay, so where are these excessive numbers of stories? We have so few mentions, there's almost nothing on it. I checked everything.

Cristina: Like how do you keep people. But they're so hidden. They're so well hidden.

Jack: You'd find the road if you're navigating. If you just decided the complete driving on Paradise Road, you would find Mystery Road. Presumably. Unless it's so invisible that you don't even realize it exists. Driving right by it. But we found it.

Cristina: Yes, he found it. I don't know. That's a. That's a mystery itself. I don't know.

Jack: Well, I'll give you the next weird part. Mystery Road people have only ever seen people leaving it at night. Every single report was about night. Nobody has ever even reported seeing Mystery Road in the daytime.

Cristina: So you think Mystery Road doesn't exist in the daytime? I don't know.

Jack: I don't know. It's just. That's a really weird detail. Yeah, because now we're at a category I just called the Fringe.

Cristina: It's.

Jack: These are reports from non residential people that are.

Cristina: That stumble upon Mystery Road.

Jack: To stumble upon Mystery Road. Nobody has ever reported seeing something and it be daylight.

Cristina: It's at night.

Jack: They've only seen people leaving the road at night. If they are seeing the road during the daylight, they're just ignoring it because they don't see anybody coming in around.

Cristina: That could be. That could be.

Jack: Could totally be. But all the mentions of somebody coming out happen at night.

Cristina: Why just that night.

Jack: And nobody claims they've seen anybody go in.

Cristina: And you were there at night and.

Jack: I was there at night. Stumbled by accident onto Mystery Road. It was so obviously there.

Cristina: But you didn't stumble upon anyone. I mean, you did, but not on.

Jack: Not on Mystery Road. It wasn't even Paradise.

Cristina: Paradise. Maybe he came from that place.

Jack: Well, the. A consistent mention on Paradise Road. I didn't experience this and I didn't even know this was happening until I found it. Is that robed and cloaked men have been seen not coming in or out, but wandering around Mystery Road. Like the entrance of Paradise Road to Mystery Road, but also only at night. Which would see exactly what I saw on Clinton Road.

Cristina: They have to live there. They live there. It's a town of cults.

Jack: It sounds like a cult right off the bat.

Cristina: There's a cult lives inside the woods.

Jack: Yeah, checks out. Reminds me of. What was that movie? The movie. Just like that. Whatever. Some movie about them people living in the woods. Hate enough I mean, there's probably crap ton of societies like that too. Just f*** society.

Cristina: We just gotta come over here. That's crazy.

Jack: Weird. But that also explains them being not friendly. Because it's like, you don't belong here. You're in the wrong part of the woods, kid.

Cristina: That guy that you saw, he wasn't like. It wasn't like he was unfriendly. He didn't even like seem to know you existed or did he respond to you?

Jack: Did not acknowledge that we were even present. Didn't look in our direction, no nothing. He kept moving like we weren't there.

Cristina: I mean, that could be seen as unfriendly to other people. Like, it could be that they see something, some guy, and the guy does.

Jack: You know, ignores their existence.

Cristina: Yeah. And then they're like, oh, he's unfriendly.

Jack: It could totally be.

Cristina: It could totally be something like that.

Jack: Some of the reports are that they're just asking for directions and the people completely ignore them. But then this, this has a very, very reminiscent thing to it. What if they literally can't see you? What if they literally have no idea you're there and that's why they're ignoring you?

Cristina: What is that? Would that mean they come from a different time? The houses are 1800s.

Jack: There's something weird.

Cristina: There's something weird happening there.

Jack: Weird. Weird.

Cristina: This has to do with time travel. I don't know what is happening, but.

Jack: If it's time travel, they can still see you. They're just coming from a different time. You go in and you're somewhere else.

Cristina: But like a time bubble, you're seeing into the past.

Jack: Why can you walk where they are? You shouldn't be able to. You would just cross through. Every time bubble is like that. You just cross through. You're on the other side now. Usually they're in weird positions that you'd have to specifically navigate through. But we're talking. You've seen people come out and then you go in that same direction.

Cristina: Nothing happens.

Jack: Nothing happens. Weird.

Cristina: That is weird.

Jack: Now, other reports by people. The roads in the neighborhood. People have gone into paradise. Neighborhood. The roads and homes seem to change positions. I saw the roads change positions. I think our panic didn't allow us to pay attention to the houses. These people have claimed they've seen the same house twice. Driving in a straight line. Identical.

Cristina: Spooky. That's very spooky.

Jack: Yes. That the houses change consistently.

Cristina: The town is haunted. What is happening? It's not a real town or it's a real town. I don't know.

Jack: I don't know. And people have claimed to this site. Can I can definitely speak to this one. People have claimed to have found themselves trapped, driving in circles, unable to find the access road, AKA Mystery Road. Sometimes for several hours. In this small area. Yeah.

Cristina: That is. That is so scary. For some hours.

Jack: Hours. Trying to find the access road. Panicking. Not knowing. And what the f***. It was there the whole time. Maybe it wasn't.

Cristina: Maybe it wasn't. How is the whole place moving? Is it really there? But it looks like it's there. I don't know. And there's people. But are those people really there? They're not even.

Jack: Next point. Nobody who's entered the town has ever seen a person in it. Nobody has ever reported seeing a person after they've gone through Mystery Road into the neighborhood. They've never once seen anyone. Ever. No one has ever seen anybody in paradise.

Cristina: It's a ghost town. It's a ghost town. Maybe. I don't know. No. No. Yes. Maybe. I don't know.

Jack: That's so strange. Nobody has ever seen anyone ever.

Cristina: Never. Never outside of it.

Jack: Just outside of it.

Cristina: And those people don't even see you.

Jack: Those people ignore you like you don't exist.

Cristina: And they're dressed so old fashioned and they sometimes fashion home.

Jack: No. Some people come out in pickups and they'll just ignore you. But they have seen roped people not going in or out. The people they've seen coming out, just normal looking people who are ignoring the out of you. The people hanging around the outside who aren't coming in or out. Robed and cloaked individuals.

Cristina: What is happening? Okay. There was a guy in the pickup though.

Jack: Yeah. They've seen cars come out. People have asked for directions. No response. They'll just ignore you.

Cristina: What?

Jack: They won't even acknowledge that they're there.

Cristina: Just so it's not a ghost town or is it a ghost town? I don't know. Why is it moving around?

Jack: Which I can talk to the roads moving around. I. We did not. We were too young and too panicked after everything. After we lost Mystery Road.

Cristina: Yeah. You didn't even notice if any move. If any homes moved. You would not notice.

Jack: Crap. I can tell you for a fact Mystery Road moved.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Because we saw it on the other side of the town.

Cristina: And even though you don't see people in the town, the lights are off. Like there's no lights. There's street lights. At least.

Jack: We saw no light. I remember that so specifically. The only lights we saw the Entire were coming from the car's headlights. Everything we saw was shined through that. Not a single light. That's also another note. Nobody has ever seen lights or electricity or anything. Nothing. Always dark. Only your car lights shine it. It's almost exactly like Clinton Road. Not one light.

Cristina: I don't know then this might be like that. The castle where people just go to do rituals or whatever.

Jack: Except the houses don't look worn down. Everything is maintained.

Cristina: There's paved roads, but no one's there.

Jack: But nobody has ever seen a single person in the neighborhood.

Cristina: Is it just for show what is happening?

Jack: But that's crazy. Nobody has seen a single person ever. I found that so strange. You've seen people come out, but you've never seen one soul inside.

Cristina: That is very strange. What's happening? Is it. I don't know if it's ghost related or not. Is.

Jack: I don't know either. I just like reading about this and really doing some research on this. The. The visual of Mystery Road just vanishing is so clear to me. Straight line. We do a 180 drive right back where we came from. The road isn't there. We take a right because there's nowhere else to go. The road just kind of. We were on the. There was only woods to one side and the houses to the other side. So you turn around. Now the woods are to your right. And eventually you hit the point where you have to take a right.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And then we're wandering maybe 10 minutes. And nowhere where we came in through do we find Mystery Road. Total opposite side. I would argue it's literally across. Not even in front or to the side of it. It was literally across. If we came in through Paradise Road to the bottom, this road would have in theory been facing Clinton Road. Except we took it and came out back to paradise.

Cristina: Who made this? What is this? It's a maze in the woods. It's huge. It's a huge maze.

Jack: Less than 50,000. It's not even a huge maze. It's tiny. It's just impossible to navigate.

Cristina: Yeah. How does it do what it it's doing? What's the explanation to that?

Jack: It is very complicated. I don't know what the h*** is happening. I have no. Definitely worth. It was worth looking at this because of what the h***.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Now all of that. And it's not even the weirdest part. None of that. None of that is the weirdest part. The fringe category is not the category that comes next called the strangest. So the weirdest part of Paradise Road is None of the above mentioned, but rather the one most striking important coincidence. At the very center of the neighborhood, there's a church. In the center, at the very center of the neighborhood, there's a church.

Cristina: That church is a portal. I don't know what's happening.

Jack: Oh, and the church appears to be at the center. Regardless of how you travel it, of how you travel it or what, shift or whatever, it doesn't matter how anything else changes.

Cristina: Mayhem should go in that church. Did you see it? Do you remember church?

Jack: I do not remember seeing the church. I don't remember paying too much attention to the structures at all. Yeah, we were in a state of panic. We were just trying to scare each other and having fun until the road vanished. And then it was like, oh, f***. And then the car stopped turning on at that moment too. We panicked for a moment, tried to turn it on. The car didn't turn on. Then it finally did after a couple of moments of messing with it. And it's a car that's in perfect condition always. And that's never happened before.

Cristina: Yeah. So what's the description of the church, though?

Jack: The church, it appears to be a late 1800s design. The church has zero windows and zero entrances other than the front entrance. So you cannot see into it, you cannot see lights, you cannot see anything. There's no way to look inside. Triangular roof, boxy shape, and a front pillar with a cross. The end. Yeah, very old school. Nothing else going on.

Cristina: I don't know. This place doesn't sound real. It feels like it's a staged. A staged thing, like, I don't know, it doesn't seem like people really live there. It's just for show.

Jack: So who the h*** is coming out? Why are there people who look like they live there coming out?

Cristina: Hmm?

Jack: Who are these weirdos hanging around the entrance?

Cristina: Well, we don't know if they live there. It doesn't seem like anyone lives there. If they're. They're going there for something, I don't think it's for living there. I don't think anyone lives there.

Jack: Weird, right?

Cristina: It's for sure to hide whatever they're actually doing there. Whatever that's used for, there's something that's being used for.

Jack: Most people have never seen the church, though. Really? Some people have. Most people haven't. People who've been there. The majority of them have never seen it. I'm among the people who've never seen it.

Cristina: Yes, but everyone that has, it's been in the same exact.

Jack: Presumably the people who've been lost there for hours.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Because it's really f****** difficult to get to the center if everything is continuously changing and throwing you back out to the edges.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: If everything is always throwing you to the edges, getting to the center must be so f****** complicated. And like we saw in Google Maps, it's not even that big. A couple of houses, maybe. How the h*** can you find it so difficult to get to the middle?

Cristina: I don't know. That's strange.

Jack: The changing and shifting keeps spitting you out, always to the edge.

Cristina: It doesn't want you to get there.

Jack: They just want you to reach it. And a few people who have have no idea to know what the h***'s inside. It's just a church. An old abandoned church. Except the church, by the accounts of the people who've seen it, is the most kept. Well location in the entire neighborhood. It looks old, but it has the freshest paint job. The land around it is the most clean.

Cristina: So most likely that's the important thing. That's what people are. The people that know, the people that actually travel there. That's where they're going. Going to that church. They're dressed like it. It makes sense. I don't know.

Jack: Yeah. It's the best maintained structure. And its design is the oldest. Simultaneously and additionally. Additionally. Nobody has ever seen the road during the daytime. Mystery Road. Which means nobody has ever driven through Paradise Road. I mean, paradise neighborhood during the daytime. Nobody's ever navigated the town during the day, which means they've only ever seen the church at night.

Cristina: Yeah. Which mean it could be they. Those people could be using it at the daytime when no one's there.

Jack: Nobody can get there.

Cristina: No one can get there.

Jack: The neighborhood is just inaccessible. But then what the h*** happens to Mystery Road? It should be more visible during the day. Mystery Road should be most visible during the day. I don't know.

Cristina: That's weird. It's a lot of witchy stuff. I don't know yet.

Jack: Nobody has ever seen the road during the day. They've only ever seen the road at night, which means they've only ever seen people come out of it at night, which means they've only ever driven at night. And people have only ever been in paradise at night. Nobody has ever driven in paradise during the daytime. Nobody has any idea what that would look like.

Cristina: That's probably where things happen. Is probably during the daytime.

Jack: Weird, man.

Cristina: And like, we're. We. There's no. It's impossible to know, though. Unless we go.

Jack: We gotta go there personally. Go and we would have to go during the day.

Cristina: But then who knows? Maybe it will be missing.

Jack: There will be nothing, we'll see nothing. We'll go there and have wasted our time because there's nothing. Which means we have to go at night. That would be the only way. But honestly, that's the time I would want to go there at least. Yeah, we need a big group of people. Cameras and everything. Record every moment of it. 20 people. We're all going. Caravan of cars.

Cristina: Yes. We gotta go into that church. What's happening in that church? Yeah, people in robes. Obviously the church is being used for something, right?

Jack: Yeah, that. Total. Total connection. Total connection. People in robes. The church being the most maintained upkept place. But the houses are well kept too.

Cristina: There's no lights anywhere. There's no lights anywhere. But there's no lights on the church here.

Jack: There's no lights on the church either. There's no lights anywhere. Zero seeming electricity. Yeah, but again, some of the houses look like they were built in the 90s. Electricity definitely happened. No power lines.

Cristina: I don't know. But I don't think that's a real town. I don't think it's a family generated generations of family living there. I think it's the generations of cult leaders living there.

Jack: You think the whole neighborhood is of cults? Is of one cult. Yeah, but that would mean they live there.

Cristina: I don't. I don't know. I don't think they live there.

Jack: So what the h*** would be the point of building these houses?

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: Especially if nobody can enter.

Cristina: I don't know. The whole thing is very strange.

Jack: It's really weird.

Cristina: It's really weird. Do they live there? Because like no one's. There's no proof that they do live there.

Jack: There's no proof that anybody has ever been there other than the people driving through.

Cristina: Yeah. We just know that we see cult members all over everywhere else around this spot. Yes, everywhere.

Jack: Everywhere. Even completely off of Paradise Road. That's where I saw it.

Cristina: Clinton Road is covered. The whole woods area is covered. The castle is covered. Like where are they not?

Jack: My bet would be they actually do live there. Whatever cult performs rituals at the castle lives in Paradise. I think paradise is the residential area for the cult, for the people who do whatever in that whole thing. And I would argue that so is the entrance to what's left of the castle. And it's probably in that church.

Cristina: Is this what Silent Hill is based on?

Jack: I don't know. But I bet the entrance to the castles to not even the castle.

Cristina: To the mines, to the mine.

Jack: The secret entrance to the mines is probably in that church. I bet that it's there. If it's not there, it's in a random indescript location. And they are the only ones who know exactly where it is. Probably a manhole cover in the middle of nowhere, covered by leaves. And you gotta like know exactly where it is to even find it.

Cristina: But it's as possible that it's in the town.

Jack: It's as possible that it's right there and that that's why it's the hardest thing to find. People can't even get to the church. Nine times out of ten just wandering lost. People don't even see a church. I never saw a church. There's a s***. We were lost for like 10 minutes. That town is not a 10 minute drive. But we never saw the center of that town. I know we tried to go through the center of the town. I guess we never really noticed that we never got to the center of the town. Now thinking in hindsight, how the h*** were we always on the edge of the town? That's weird. I never thought about that. We were always on the edge of the town and we took turns in every direction but we were always at the edge of the town. Even driving in, we would just come out to the other edge. I guess. It just obviously such a small town. You don't question it. You're just like, oh yeah, obviously I just got to the other side already. But I never saw a church. And I would have sworn to you I went through the center of the town.

Cristina: I wonder. Like there must be a secret path to get there then.

Jack: Like a combination of roads.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And that all the other roads essentially just kind of fling you around it so you don't ever mm. Get there.

Cristina: Yeah. Like if you try to not get to the center, I bet you're more likely to find the center or something.

Jack: There's probably exactly one turn you would take that would then take you to a series of other ones. And you got to take exactly one of those turns because they would spit you out. And then again you have to take specifically one other turn. So just a series of only this one, only that one. And they would take you there. Which means people have found it by total accident.

Cristina: Yes. Which is has to be the case. Yeah.

Jack: And then the structure of the houses have been intentionally built to be identical to one another to be extra confusing so that you don't know where you are at any given Moment because you're not familiar with the town.

Cristina: That's true. Like you could be looking. People think they're seeing that same house again. But it could just be that whoever made that town made it really identical. Yeah.

Jack: It's meant to confuse you as you're going through it.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So, man, did I just pass and it's the same number. Maybe not. Maybe it's literally just. I mean, it's literally the same number, but it's not the same house. It was just meant to look that way to f*** with your head.

Cristina: Yes. Okay. That makes way more sense. It's not a ghost town. It's not. It's. There's a reason. It's an actual maze.

Jack: It's an actual maze. And if that's the case, in the center is either the entrance to the mines, the real entrance to the mines. Which means the people from this town can actually sneak into anyone's house through the underground tunnels. All the other five towns are at the mercy of this one neighborhood. Or it's not that. And this is a literal maze designed as a channeling location. And that church is as we would call the entrance.

Cristina: It could be both. Like, it's so weird. It's so weird that I can imagine that it's both.

Jack: Could totally be. It could totally. Like the top floor has the, quote, entrance to coming into the church. And the. Somewhere, you know, you go down a couple of stairs, a spiral staircase or some nonsense. And you get to the entrance to the mines.

Cristina: Yes. He's like, why were they hanging out that church? It's. It's because that's. They know about that. The mines. I think they know about the mines. I don't think it was about the church at all.

Jack: It's probably the people who've controlled the mines this entire time. Which means they would have. It's not just the neighborhood. It's the entire network of tunnels underneath and not just the entire net. Who knows how much other crap exists underground. We've had 70 years to continue excavating and building homes underground and building other things on top of the fact that we know about the one that is underneath where the castle was particularly large. Entire chambers. Rooms bigger than the neighborhood itself. The entire grounds underneath the castle are bigger than the neighborhood itself. So you could fit everybody who lives in the neighborhood. Assuming this is the case, you could have 20 times the amount of people that could live in the neighborhood living underground.

Cristina: Very strange. Very strange. What is this cult doing? Whoa.

Jack: Unless they're not even living underground. There's Way more complicated crap happening down there. We do have Clinton Road being the most supernatural place on planet Earth. There's nothing more supernatural.

Cristina: Paradise is more supernatural. And it's such a secret that we wouldn't even know.

Jack: We wouldn't even know. No stories, no nothing. Can't even find it.

Cristina: Yeah. What's happening? How does Mystery Road. Mystery Road, not a road. I don't know.

Jack: Mystery Road doesn't exist. Paradise has no people.

Cristina: But they're all connected. It's all connected.

Jack: It's all one thing somehow.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: I couldn't tell you how. There's not enough information. But it's all one thing somehow.

Cristina: I wish we could learn something about this cult. There's no name on it. No guesses.

Jack: Nope. People have no idea. The closest they got was referring to them as Druids.

Cristina: Druids.

Jack: And then changing that name to satanic cults.

Cristina: Okay. And the kkk.

Jack: And the kkk. All of that. Yeah. That's which. None of the above. The closest would be the Druids.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: If anything, Druids is what we'll call them because of how weird this is. The KKK doesn't have powers, bro.

Cristina: The h*** out of here.

Jack: Unless. The original purpose of the KKK was in order to create stones. Which would make sense of the sacrifices.

Cristina: Well, now we gotta go look into the kkk, I guess. I don't know. See the history.

Jack: That's all I got. That's all I managed to find about the town. I will call it.

Cristina: It's the town.

Jack: Neighborhood Town is why I was calling it Neighborhood Town. It totally checks out.

Cristina: Right?

Jack: The neighborhood town called Paradise.

Cristina: It's a mystery itself. It's a mystery. A mystery road leads to a mysterious town.

Jack: And the mysterious town is a maze in itself that nobody has ever been seen inside. Ever. Nobody has ever seen somebody in there at least seen it and reported it?

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: If they have, they never talked about it. Which tells us way more information. You saw it and never talked about it. Where are you then? Did you see somebody and then never made it out?

Cristina: Yes. That would be the other option.

Jack: That'll be the other option. Maybe you have seen people, which we.

Cristina: Know many people disappear.

Jack: Many people disappear. Many hundreds.

Cristina: Is this part of what's going on with that?

Jack: It's 100%. It's possible that every single person that went missing along Clinton Road actually went there. It's absolutely possible that's the case. Every single person that went missing found this road and never came out.

Cristina: They saw something they weren't supposed to.

Jack: See or someone, I guess don't find it during the daytime, buddy. That seems to be the case. If you see somebody there, you're. That could be the case.

Cristina: That could be. They don't do anything outside. They don't do anything.

Jack: I saw. Dude, just ignore me. Just ignore all of us.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Didn't react, didn't respond. No, nothing. We just weren't there to him.

Cristina: And he was hunting. Which fits. If they're all just living in.

Jack: Because of the deer.

Cristina: Yeah. That just goes with the whole. They're living there. They just live there.

Jack: Self sustained.

Cristina: Yep.

Jack: Interesting. But that's all I got. That's all I got. That's all it is. Weird. Strange. Oddest place ever. Definitely fits the character of every weird other that's going on there. And definitely seems to be at least related to the center of what's happening.

Cristina: Yes. These entrances, they're all. They all have this whatever mystery thing going on. This mazes and puzzles and something patterns. All of it just very similar looking.

Jack: All three instances. The mansion, the labyrinth and the town.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: All the complicated maze that could throw you anywhere and are all impossible to navigate and all have the entrance at the center.

Cristina: Yeah. If you have a far away. They look completely different but you zoom in, it's the same thing.

Jack: And on Google Maps we can clearly see a circular formation. We can see the very little bit.

Cristina: Of roof tips of the roots or something.

Jack: Yeah. Through the trees, it's very little. And then the big one in the.

Cristina: Middle, which is probably the church.

Jack: It's probably a church. Weird.

Cristina: Weird.

Jack: Anyways, anybody who has any kind of information related to this, please either the.

Cristina: Mystery Road or Paradise Road.

Jack: Mystery Road. Paradise Road or Paradise, the neighborhood town. If you have any information on any of this, please feel free to contact us and tell us about it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: If you live there and all of this is bullshit and the Internet is making it up. Yes, reach out. Tell us about your neighborhood. Yeah, tell us about your neighborhood. We're curious and yeah, you could do that on our socials. That's at just convopad. On Twitter, on Instagram, on Facebook, on TikTok.

Cristina: Remember to subscribe, rate and review the show.

Jack: Yes. Word of mouth is a really overpowered thing and if you want. If maybe you know people who are into this and can inform us, tell that person to listen.

Cristina: Yes. And hopefully they'll hear us asking them to contact us. And they'll contact us. Who knows? Yes, contact us, please.

Jack: Yes, tell us.

Cristina: This has been the Rambling podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Bye. S.A. good morning. Good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by great dots.info art by 0lupo and logo by Seth McAllister, with social media managed by Amber Black.

Rambling 280: Clinton Road: Part 1: Echoes

Is Clinton Road actually Haunted? If not, what could explain the odd occurrences? Is there anything we can learn from them? The duo revisits the case of Clinton Road, a place often considered the most haunted region on Earth. Jack’s first hand experiences and the amount of reported cases work together to provide a new perspective on what is truly taking place at this paranormal hot spot. 

Rambling 280: Clinton Road: Part 1: Echoes

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed:

  • Thin Places
  • Spacetime Distortions
  • Ghosts vs Phantoms
  • Wormholes
  • Echoes
  • Slipping Through Time
  • The Bird Theory

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod

Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod

Instagram - https://instagram.com/justconvopod


+Transcript

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And this is the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas. And we have quite the baffling at the moment. So let's do a little house cleaning. Right. Hella years ago, we did a Halloween episode where I was talking about my experiences at Clinton Road. Yeah, the first time we did this, it took three episodes to really break apart everything that I personally experienced there. And it was just for the sake of Halloween. But then the episode stretched out and it was like a three part thing. And on the last of the three episodes, we called up Reaper and Nune and we had conversations with them relative to the thing so that they can tell us their angles on it. And everybody had a different story.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And everybody talked about different timings and everybody talked about a lot of different things. Now we know the stories say that Clinton Road is an exceptionally haunted place. We've about two years after that point, took another deep dive into Clinton Road. And then we found about thin places. And this kind of lined up pretty heftily that there was just, you know, space time anomalies and distortions taking place and that a lot of what was taking place could have just been echoes that existed in that region.

Cristina: Yeah, yeah.

Jack: Except we've now gotten even more insight and information. We found out how space time distortions in the form of thin places get formed. So in a weird full circle scenario, something that was totally unrelated has suddenly become pressing because it has space time distortions, which could only have been caused by highly advanced electrical magnetic technology, which could only have been done by the ancient civilizations that were extremely advanced, particularly the only ones that had that level of energy, which were either Djinn or f****** Elysians somehow. Full little circle.

Cristina: But why were they there?

Jack: But why were they there?

Cristina: Huh? Interesting.

Jack: Yes. So in figuring this out, it makes sense to once again visit this place. But now with new eyes and the ability to look granularly at all the things that could possibly be happening there. And so I've done that. I've gone and I've looked for a lot. Now here's what I'm gonna preface this with. There's a lot. So this episode is gonna be very surface level. The reason I began this was by talking about how we approached this in Halloween is because I kind of want to keep driving this topic that's probably gonna take us beyond Halloween because of how many things there are here. And we have to unpack some of them. None of which we're going to do here, but we're gonna. We're gonna discuss a couple of these.

Cristina: Points while we refreshing our memories or something.

Jack: We're gonna. We're gonna go through the things that are here and we're gonna talk. It's not anything about me. We're not refreshing memories on anything.

Cristina: No. We're learning the past episodes. No, we're going.

Jack: No, no. We're just. This has nothing to do with us.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: We're just gonna go through Clinton Road with nothing about us involved. No. No past research. No. Nothing. We at what exists. And then with the new eyes, we have kind of talk about the things that are obviously gonna stick out.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: We didn't know these things before, although we brushed by them. Now we're gonna look at these things that we've seen before, but now we have fresh eyes and it's suddenly gonna be like, Okay, I've divided this into three different sides that matter at different grades. The first of these sides is called echoes.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: This part comes first because we're going to easily dismiss it unless something in particular sticks out that we might need to correct for. But otherwise, these are things I believe are echoes.

Cristina: Okay, cool. There's a lot of them.

Jack: There's a lot. The one we'd be going to after that is going to get a little more pressing. These are phantoms. These are. These. Have a little bit of thought to them.

Cristina: Okay. Yeah.

Jack: And we're going to end at a third area that is just labeled under the things that are definitely, without a question, significant.

Cristina: That's what they're just significant.

Jack: Just significant.

Cristina: Well, what a difference.

Jack: Okay, so let us go back and visit this part one of a Clinton Road. Revisit this part one. I am calling the menu. This whole episode is called the menu. This is the menu we're gonna be unpacking. Okay, so let us begin first with a quick description of what we mean by echoes. When people say ghost, they are talking too blanketly. And ghosts have been obscured. So now ghost is a blanket term. It will remain a blanket term, but it highlights several things. It highlights dead humans who are spirits. It highlights creatures from other realms which are phantoms, and it highlights space time distortions and reflections which are echoes, all of which we refer to as ghost. Unanimously, yes. But these three things are now going to be unpacked. So specifically, echoes are the ones we're looking For. Because we can write those off. Those are only being caused by the space time anomaly. We don't know what caused the space time anomaly, but we know that things do cause the spacetime anomaly. We already have that fact in place. So now let's just discard the ones that don't matter. First, the boy at the bridge. There's a child, a ghostly boy. An apparition that shows up. And the boys reported he's reportedly always under a bridge picking up coins that people take.

Cristina: That's what I remember. I don't remember the whole story. I remember there's a boy with a coin.

Jack: And so he goes and gets the coins from underneath the bridge and he puts them back on top of the bridge. People see him consistently doing this one motion. He goes to the bottom of the bridge, grabs coins, bring those to the top of the bridge, goes back to the bottom, gets coins. And so the repetition of this, the fact that nobody sees anything different of this boy tells us that boy is not there. That's either in the past, most likely.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Or in the future. But likely mostly in the past because he tends to look old timey. Tends to look like an 1800s child.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it fits the suit. He must have actually been there, maybe grabbing coins, collecting them himself to play or something. And we're seeing kind of the moment.

Cristina: Back of that moment.

Jack: Not a flash. Yeah, Sort of a flashback. The echo, the reflection of that instance in time. And this has been. This is upon one of the most mentioned things. But he's always described the same way.

Cristina: Okay. We're saying these are not ghosts. This isn't the ghost of the dead boy or anything. Like he is a person that existed and he's probably dead right now.

Jack: Yeah. But this is echo. This isn't him. This isn't like his spirit is cut in a time loop. No, this is. We're seeing through time back to when he was actually doing that. Yeah, that's literally him. But we're looking through a time window.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: The next one is just referred to as the girl. Now, this is a sort of ghostly girl in a white dress. Not to be confused with the lady in the white dress that is originally from Clinton Road too. Two different individuals. So this girl in the white dress is often wandering the road, believed to be searching for her parents. That's different than the hitchhiker lady in the white dress who usually gets a ride. And this is the typical story of you take her home. And then they're like, what the f***? My daughter's been Dead for years. Because she leaves like her hoodie in the back seat or something. And then the guy always comes back, oh, my God, I left the thing. And then, oh, no. So that's a different lady. This other girl is just always walking and she doesn't get in anybody's car. But I remember reading about this when we did this the first time. And it's always that she's looking for her parents and that she has like a really blank stare. Kind of like a nightgown. Not even a dress. It's sort of more like a nightgown. Like she just walked out of her house or something. And she's always walking on the side. She's got lost. Somebody asked, hey, are you okay? I'm just looking for my family.

Cristina: And that I able to take her home.

Jack: She does. She never gets in the car. They ask her to get in. She just walks away. Well, weird. Now, here's the thing about this. This is confusing. This one has a question mark next to it. Because the fact that they can interact with her is weird. But they ask her. But I think some of these echoes are also like, again, maybe somebody stopped by there around that time back then.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: That's why you hear her say the same thing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It's always. She's looking for her parents and she's always walking along the same area.

Cristina: She's saying it's probably something she did say.

Jack: Exactly something somebody did see her. And hey, you're right. And oh, no, I'm just looking for my family. And so we're seeing that moment.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And some enough people, it's, you know, it's a hot spot. It's a tourist attraction. Enough people go through there that occasionally they catch her at that very moment and then they happen to talk to her at that very moment and she happens to say what she would say.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And so it's like, oh, my God. She said, but you're not really talking to her. It's always the same loop. It never changes.

Cristina: Yeah. I think it's still an echo.

Jack: I think that is checks out as an echo. Right. It doesn't seem like this is fantastic.

Cristina: No.

Jack: The next one referred to as the hitchhiker. This one is a person looking for a ride.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: But there seems to be a cutoff point. So that by default means. Yeah. It's like they're asking for a ride and they just vanish in front of you.

Cristina: Yeah. But it still seems like an echo. Like that's true for sure. That's probably what they were doing once Upon a time. And they did get that ride.

Jack: Yeah. And a lot of people theorize that the hitchhiker got killed by somebody, but that's not how this would work.

Cristina: No, this has nothing to do with how they died.

Jack: No, this has nothing to do with.

Cristina: Everyone's gonna assume all these things are related to ghosts, and therefore they must have died in the area, which probably not. They probably just. They're really from that area. Yeah.

Jack: These are people who were definitely just people who lived around here. It seems to be the case, and it seems to be with echoes. It's always the way that that works. So I think the hitchhiker definitely appropriately put under an echo. The cutoff point makes it too obvious. I think anytime there's a cutoff point to, like, restart, you're objectively an echo.

Cristina: Yep. And it's not a ghost. It's important to know that, yes, they're dead, but they're not. It wasn't like someone murdered them.

Jack: No. Everything is a ghost that we're talking about. That's why we're referring to this as an echo.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: The different ghosts are the echoes and the phantoms. But this is a ghost. It's just not.

Cristina: It's not that they were hiking and then getting murdered and now.

Jack: Yeah, it's not a phantom that's over here.

Cristina: Thinking is unrelated to why they're there.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. This isn't like a lingering spirit. We have the bicyclist, a spectral bicyclist, sometimes seen riding along the road, believed to have died and in a hit and run accident. Always on the same part of the road, always for about the same distance, Always on the bike, always the same outfit. And he's never seen beyond that point or before that point.

Cristina: And they're always gonna assume they died.

Jack: He must have died there.

Cristina: Unless they look like. Like if he looked like he was hit by something and he's.

Jack: Then I would say, okay, okay, you saw the death.

Cristina: Yeah, but it was just a guy riding a bike.

Jack: Yeah, it's just a guy riding a bike and. Yeah, exactly. It's like such a waste of thought ultimately, to be like, oh, his death put him here. It's like, I mean, if you saw him die, maybe, but chances are. Nah, nah. It has nothing to do with it. And the place is distorted. Yeah, the place is distorted. Not the people. Next, the haunted lake. This one is. Weird one. This is the lake near Clinton Road, and it is said to have been haunted by spirits of those who drowned in it. It's off a sharp Right turn, there's like a hard right entering Clinton Road. I'm not sure from which side, the south or the north. But right off of one of those two entrances, there is a little dirt path that goes on, and then it leads to this lake. This lake has two important things that are very weird. One, there are consistently sightings of people fishing there and people, like, hanging out in the lake usually at nighttime. And they're there and like. Like walking around it. You kind of get glimpses of them and stuff, but they're not like, really there. What makes this really weird is there's a high point vantage. This vantage point. We can see the lake. And from that point, people have always said the lake looks populated and full. I think there is an angular distortion that allows a continuous view of a past point. From that vantage point they're looking at.

Cristina: That's cool. And then, like, there's many figures, but they might not even be there at the same time.

Jack: That. Exactly. This could be a. The tall grass scenario where all the different timelines are kind of converging at that one spot. And through this sort of window, you see it all in one spot.

Cristina: The lake is a hot spot. That's where people want to hang out.

Jack: Yes, exactly. You people would normally be there in groups.

Cristina: Yeah. So it would be many groups. But those many groups are not there together.

Jack: They would be there for hours sometimes. So if there's just time slips that last a second, they would have been there to be caught by the time slips so that we can see them.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it would look populated. And I do believe up there in that vantage point there is that. That is in fact maybe a sustained sort of thin place entrance that you can look through. Maybe you'd have to jump and clear a distance to get through it, but it seems to be sustained because it's always the same spot that people go to to see the lake filled with people.

Cristina: Yeah, that's pretty cool.

Jack: So that's a good. A great example of it being just an echo, but, like, you could probably jump through if we could see the gap. The problem is we can't see the entrance or exit to thin places. We can only see what's on the other side. But if we could somehow make a technology that allows us to detect them, I wonder how many we would see if turned it on. Like, you know, I put thin place detecting glasses. Would it look like bubble gates? Would it just be like a tear in space? I think it would look like a perfect sphere.

Cristina: I have no idea.

Jack: Everything in nature Kind of.

Jack: I think it looks like a perfect sphere.

Cristina: Cool.

Jack: A wormhole.

Cristina: Wormhole looking thing.

Jack: Yeah. We can't see it. And again, it's always positions properly with what you're looking at. So yes, in the past that lake was still there. So it's not like you looking through it. Oh, there's something else there. Yeah, you see a different time of it. But you know, geographically it's the same.

Cristina: It still looks. Yeah, it looks the same.

Jack: So you wouldn't see the entrance. Now if the place changed drastically and there was a place like this. Here would be my next sentence. I think because there is a sustained doorway that allows us to see to the past. Maybe there's a location that we altered somewhere on earth that has the same effect. And when you stand through it, we can see the entrance not because we're seeing the wormhole, but because the other side looks so different that it looks like two images overlapping. And one is a circular sphere of a different place that should exist somewhere. But it should exist as such a weird kind of.

Cristina: It's not like that farm place where we sometimes see the hole sometimes.

Jack: That could totally be the case. Is that a wormhole to a different time? It is a space time distortion. And we know thin places cause this. And those holes are migrating consistently. They're never in the same place.

Cristina: And are those even there now? Like I don't think.

Jack: Yeah, they show up and disappear all the time to this day.

Cristina: Wow. But like I don't know because you're looking at it, but I don't know.

Jack: To this day they move around. Yeah, it's f****** weird. But I think this, the haunted lake gives us a lot of information because the haunted lake tells us that they are thin place sustained entrances that don't move. And that seems to be one presumably one that if we could see and maybe keep open by will we can traverse to whatever alternate time that is. Potential time travel just exists. Yeah, but they would be tiny little gateways that we can't see. And we'd have to accent this also.

Cristina: Would expect multiple times are overlapping in that you're seeing groups of people.

Jack: That depends. It depends. That's a theory where. It depends if that's the actual case that's happening. Because it could have been a day that they were all at the lake, sunny day, you happen to be in the summer and all those people are one moment. And if that's the case and that's one place. And that would create an interesting situation. Right. We're talking about people flying and their planes completely disappearing. And you're going through where? Oh, you're crossing over to Bermuda Triangle. And what the. Do those people have excessively overpowered technology. You'd be making thin places like a m***********.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And then somebody flies over your thing and your plane totally disappears. We never see a crash. We never see anything.

Cristina: No.

Jack: No remnants. When we go and check, you're just gone. Or maybe there are enough sustained thin places that somebody went in. Poof. Popped out in the future. Popped out in the past. And they have no idea what. They can't see it to go right back in. They're just somewhere else.

Cristina: Some other time.

Jack: Some other time. And there's no way back. We've seen glimpses. Maybe there is. Let's say where I'm sitting, there's a thin place, and you are a plane flying parallel. You're not flying towards me, you're flying parallel. Me standing down here, you on the other side of the thin place in whatever time you're in. I'm technically looking through the thin place when you fly in front of it. And I see you from your time. From my angle. In my time, we've seen many things like this. Pictures of planes and hieroglyphs and stuff. That's easily somebody flying right by a bubble. And I see it.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And you didn't notice it was here. I didn't notice it was there, except I saw something weird. That's it.

Cristina: You saw something weird, but I didn't see anything.

Jack: You see anything. And so it looks like you blinked in, blinked out, but you never entered my thing. But now let's say that same thin place was in front of you instead. Then you enter it. But then I didn't just see you show up and disappear in my end. You just entered my end. And you'll never get back to yours. Okay, that explains many of the planes that have just disappeared. Boats have just disappeared, all of which happen to be around the premier triangle, which we know has the largest energy displacement on the planet.

Cristina: Yeah, they're just traveling somewhere else.

Jack: A lot of these dots are trying to f****** make sense. Some other time, different time through these sort of portals. And that's all thanks to this lake that gives us a good frame of reference. Now we get to the lady in white, which is a completely different apparition from the girl. This is again the one that always gets in the car and the one that has been dead. But this is a weird one. This has a little star next to it because the. You can interact with Her. But this seems less like. And she gets in your f****** car.

Cristina: But again, the hiker, though, gets in your car.

Jack: No, the hiker asks for a ride. And just. But this lady gets in the car, and you take her where she's going, and then she goes inside. And then the people inside never saw the door open. They never saw anybody come in. You come back with a hoodie, you knock, and they're like, what the.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: My question is, how does this story repeat? And the family isn't like, oh, somebody else showed up with the hoodie. That's where I get f***** up.

Cristina: That's also an echo.

Jack: Then they're not there. The family is part of the echo.

Cristina: I would think so.

Jack: Except the girl gets in your car. How are you tactically positioned in the same exact way? How are you moving in such a way that's so identical to how she moved when she was in the previous car that you don't lose. Sink and drive left slightly, and she's just floating next to you. Why doesn't that happen? This is interacting with the person. This isn't an echo, then. But then everything else would suggest an echo. Yeah, except she interacted with the individual and she left the physical object in the car.

Cristina: So then everything plays out just like an echo. That's the weird thing.

Jack: That's a weird thing. This is why this is a unique situation, because all the characteristics of an echo, except it has this one facet of a phantom. It's interacting with you. And the family at the door is too. When you get to the door, they get. They open it. When you get to the door, they're not just. You arrive and they're talking to nobody because you arrived five minutes too late. And they're just. Yeah, you see them talking to nobody. Or you get there too early and nobody answers for the longest. Until it's the time that it's supposed to be triggered. That they would open the door. No, no. It plays always the same. This is a weird one, because I would argue something different is happening. My argument is there's still an echo. I would argue this is. You never left Clinton Road. I would argue this is a person slipping into a thin place.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And now you're kind of trapped in a series of events.

Cristina: And once you're done with it, then you're out of it.

Jack: You exit on the other end. Yeah, I think we're seeing a different type of echo, one you're partaking in. You're not really interacting with it, but you've fallen into the Echo space.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And now you're part of the echo. Even if they're not there. And you technically are. You're kind of all here at the same time too.

Cristina: And you have to.

Jack: You have to complete the role.

Cristina: Complete the role. Yeah.

Jack: I would argue this is how Groundhog Day happens. In Groundhog Day, there's no way to really know how the role completes.

Cristina: You just have to.

Jack: You have to figure it out. That's the problem. He. He entered the thin place without being in a unique space where only one event is taking place. A thin place like this. You're in the middle of f****** nowhere. There's an obvious step to take. Oh, let me take the girl home. Oh, she forgot the thing. Oh, let me take it back home. Where she. There's obvious conclusions that could lead you to the exit.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Groundhog Day situation is you just fell in, and you don't know where you fell in, what caused it or anything. And there's also no guide on your way out. You don't know where the exit is.

Cristina: No. But you just. You stumble upon it. Like you stumbled upon the entrance.

Jack: Yes. So in this situation, the situation is guiding you towards the exit.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But it's because the echo ends at the other end. Not because the echo literally ends there, but because there happens to be a thin place that's the exit point. And they're sort of connected.

Cristina: Yeah. That's so weird.

Jack: I think this is people falling into him.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: As opposed to you seeing it, you're interacting with it, but it's sort of playing like an echo.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And again, you get to a house where somebody's interacting with you, but there can't be anybody there that doesn't check out, because they're not just like, oh, somebody else showed up with the same story.

Cristina: Yes. Like, how long could they live? And that's like.

Jack: So it's unique to them.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Now let's take an additional farther step. The proof that that is what's happening is that there are three moments here. There is you who exist in one instant, the family who exists in a second instant, and the girl who died before that family incident. That's why you can exit. Because the family's house is in a different thin place. That's a different echo that happened to happen however many years after the girl died.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So there just happens to be another bubble related. But they're not really. They're two different bubbles.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And you'll always fall into one. Interacting with the girl because she's where one is. And then the exit or not the exit, but just a different bubble that would just drop you back in your time. He's where the house is.

Cristina: Yeah. That is so strange. She takes you to the end of her bubble. Is beginning of another bubble. Pretty much.

Jack: Yeah. It's not even the beginning or end. Both of them are just entrances and exits. And you happen to. When you interact with her, the only way you can interact with her is by crossing in because you're not seeing her on one end. The story always happens that if you saw her, you ended up being the guy who delivered the thing. You've never not seen her outside that context. Nobody sees the lady in the white dress and not interact with her. People see the girl in the white dress in the white gown, and then they'll interact with her. But people don't see the lady in the white dress without ever interacting with her. It's almost like there's no option. There's nothing else around you at that moment, which checks out with you're somewhere else.

Cristina: Okay. I think unique.

Jack: That. Yes. That's very, very unique. I think that's definitely among them.

Cristina: So multiple echoes.

Jack: Multiple echoes playing together. That's two different bubbles. And you enter the echo space. Next one is the abandoned mental asylum, which is the typical, you know, oh, my God, something horrible happened there. But now we're in closer to home territory because maybe. Maybe something happened there. Because mental asylum, that's not about who died there. It's about what experiment was secretly being run there. We have a building, and it's haunted. And a haunted building, probably something went down. And the haunted buildings are always. What? They're always asylums where you can experiment on people. They're always prisons where you can experiment on people. It's usually where people aren't gonna miss the people.

Cristina: Those are still echoes.

Jack: Yes, but it is an echo of a place that might be one of the locations resulting in the thin places.

Cristina: Thin places.

Jack: The place matters more. That's why I didn't say the people.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: I said the place because the place here matters.

Cristina: It could also probably be a hotspot for Shadow Realm creatures.

Jack: Well, that would be a result of the place. Again, the distortion opens up all these things.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: That's why the place is what matters. Not the Shadow Realm people, not the humans that might have been tortured. There's the place. Yeah, because the place had whatever event took place that allowed for more thin places.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And assuming this is one spot with a bunch of thin places. But there is, as we know, a castle that is Suspected to have sketchy s*** happen with a bunch of thin places. There's a town. They had a bunch of thin. So an area where there might have been a group of people who settled and had a bunch of different facilities doing a bunch of different s***. And this might be one of them. Particularly because out of all the structures there, this is the second most haunted place. It has the most thin places. It has had the most sightings. Even more than the castle. Although the castle is going to be our main attraction for different reasons. This has had hundreds of sightings within a day.

Cristina: Within a day.

Jack: Within a day. Groups of people going to explore, enter, see something. Almost every hallway. Try to get away, see things outside. Only when they get far enough does it start to decrease rapidly. Rapidly. Like the closer you get mad s***, the farther you get. Almost nothing.

Cristina: How big is it? Like, how many floors? Do you know how many rooms?

Jack: No. No details. Diving into nothing. We're eventually gonna unpack that and we'll find out all those details. None of this happens. Try to get deep into nothing because.

Cristina: Right.

Jack: We got too much. We haven't even made it to the next list. We're still on just echoes.

Cristina: Whoa. Okay.

Jack: Yeah, we know. We're not diving into. There's too much.

Cristina: Interesting. All right.

Jack: That everything in here we're going to dive into at some point.

Cristina: Good, good, good.

Jack: So I definitely think this is a very important one. Just like the. The haunted lake and just like are.

Cristina: Going to visit the haunted lake again.

Jack: We're going to visit the haunted lake again. We're going to visit the lady in white again. And we're definitely going to visit this place.

Cristina: Cool.

Jack: The next one is the ghost train.

Cristina: The ghost what?

Jack: The ghost train. This is a weird one because there was never in the past railroads here. Which tells us something really interesting. There's going to be railroads there. Now, that's interesting. Because of a look could be taken through that thin place at the right angle. We would be looking forward.

Cristina: That makes sense. Like you mentioned Egyptians seeing airplanes. Like it's possible.

Jack: No train tracks. But people see the train and they hear it coming from a while away. Like maybe if you're standing next to the thin place, you can hear the. Because you're hearing the sound come through it, and then you see it for a moment. If you happen to be looking in the same. Which checks out with the descriptions. Some people see it, some people hear it. Some people briefly see it after having heard it.

Cristina: Interesting. And if they're not going to have a train there, maybe these time Bubbles are a little more complicated than we think. Like maybe another hotspot in real life has a train. And they're. They're connected in a way.

Jack: Interesting. You think wormholes within. Like it's leading. The problem is. The problem is it doesn't look like that's how it works. What you would be arguing would be that there isn't a thin place, but rather a portal to a different part of our same space.

Cristina: But I don't think you travel. I think you're still seeing through time.

Jack: I think it's the same place we have. Would you be talking about is a portal and if there is, that would be walkable. Every portal we've seen is a traversable thing. So if that's the case, then that's visible. It would always be visible. And also we know portals don't function without structure.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it couldn't be. It couldn't be a portal. It has to be a thin place because it has to be a space time distortion. There's no such thing as far as we know, as a portal that isn't sustained by technology to the point that we've had several different people had to be taught by somebody how to build a portal.

Cristina: So how are they watching a train?

Jack: I just said it's probably a thin place looking forward forward.

Cristina: And you think in the future there's going to be a train.

Jack: Yeah. I mean, how is that any different than right now? Us seeing thin places looking through the past.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Why wouldn't that exist in the future in the same place? And we're seeing the other end of it.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Why would we be the most ahead no matter what? I think it's just as light. And it would have to be that we have just as many looking forward as we would have looking back. There's no logic as to. And if the thin places don't dissipate ever, then there's literally an infinite amount of them looking in every direction infinitely.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: You know, so it would have to be tied like that. My question to that would be, are there thin places that work in such a way where this one only looks back to that time and that one only looks back to this time? So only when I'm in that time will I see it. But then there are some that are always. So I'll explain the two differences.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: There's a bubble that where I'm standing right now in 10 minutes will become visible for 10 minutes and will disappear. And it'll only ever be visible for those 10 minutes in that moment. And so somebody on the other end will only see me ever in that moment through there. Because the bubble isn't gonna sustain. I'll never be able to see the bubble again. And only them on the other end for those 10 minutes could see it. And then it's gone. So it connects 1985 at 3 o' clock to 2024 at 7pm in this one place and only in that. So forever. He saw me and I saw him and that's it. And that bubble doesn't exist. But the next minute a different bubble somewhere else. And so a bunch of bubbles are always coming in and out because the whole place is distorted. That's one situation. Another one will be. Maybe there are fixed ones. This seems to be the case. There are fixed ones that you can always look into.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So that moment you can always see, but the bubble you're looking through in might dissipate and pop up. So I walk to this spot at the bridge and I see the kid. You go to this spot, but you didn't see the kid. But then another person comes by and they do see the kid.

Cristina: So that's what it seems like.

Jack: Yeah, sometimes and sometimes not. So the bubble on this end sometimes is here, but the end it's looking at is always there.

Cristina: I would think that's how it works. Because, like, I don't. I doubt everyone ever sees the kid.

Jack: Yeah, exactly.

Cristina: See the kid.

Jack: Because then it'd be weird. Anytime you walk by that spot, like literally, that means people could get out of their cars and start taking pictures of this pass point. Yeah, but because that doesn't happen, it suggests our end is not fixed. But that end is. But it seems to be in the same spot.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: That's why I don't think there's ever been. Oh, you're seeing something else. Where the train looks like it's cutting through the woods. It doesn't look like, oh, there's a town on the other side or something.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And again, there's no structure. How would you have a portal when literally the most complicated, most sophisticated minds we've ever known about. We're trying to design these things just to get it to work. More about looking forward. Abandoned cars are seen consistently. Many. Some people have sometimes looked and seen the entire street covered with abandoned cars. And then the next second notice, there's nothing there.

Cristina: That's kind of scary. Yes.

Jack: Not only that, it tells us something quite interesting. A train is going to be seen there in the future. Civilization is going to exist there. Follow me on this. What if nothing has happened there yet. And the distortion that's going to cause a space time problem happens in the future. And the wreckage, the train, which suggests civilization, the cars all abandoned on the road, which suggests civilization. That hasn't happened yet. Those people get sacrificed. That creates the space time distortion that we now see. And that's why no matter how far back we look, we never come across it. It's always just distorted. But where's the origin?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It's because it's not happened yet. But the distortion must exist because it's through time. So the distortion is present because it's going to happen.

Cristina: It's going to happen. I think so. That makes sense. It's going to happen.

Jack: The cars, the train.

Cristina: Could be that something in the future leads to whatever's happening right now.

Jack: Yep. That's a really weird one. Right?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: The possibility that the reason we can't pinpoint what these distortions origin is is because there is no origin yet.

Cristina: Awesome.

Jack: All right, next on the list is the Haunted playground.

Cristina: Oh my God.

Jack: Which is an old overgrown playground that is said to be haunted by kids, of course. And something crying. Either a woman or some kind of animal imitating humans. Which is way horrifying. The repetition of this very echo. Disembodied. It's always in the same region. Weirdly enough, the area this tends to begin and end at are a dirt road. And where the laughter ends seems to be at the beginning of Paradise Road. And the playground is in the woods off the dirt. Paradise Road is where I took. Where me and the guys ended up. Hearing the kids laughing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So we were exactly where we would hear kids laughing. I didn't know that was part of this.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Last time we didn't stumble upon that.

Cristina: So they're laughing by the park is.

Jack: What by a park? That's by the entrance of Paradise.

Cristina: And there's someone crying.

Jack: And there's somebody crying. The crying we did not hear. We heard the laughing children.

Cristina: Yeah. I don't know what's scarier. It's really hard. I think if you heard both, it might be less scary.

Jack: No, I think if you heard both, it's manic and more scary. Laughing and crying everywhere all at once.

Cristina: That's kind of. Yeah. But they're not sure what the crying sounds like.

Jack: Not in that area. It just sounds like something is crying. It sounds like. Kind of like a woman. But it's unclear. Which is the horrifying part about it. It's like man, it's almost like a woman. But the fact you got a question is what makes it uneasy?

Cristina: Yeah. That's way more scary than, like, children laughing.

Jack: But that ain't even the only thing crying. Because way away from there, towards the center of Clinton Road, about five miles in, there is consistently a baby heard crying in the woods.

Cristina: And they for sure know that's a baby.

Jack: That is for sure a baby screaming quite loud just in the woods. And many people have heard this one. This is among one of the most reported ones. And this is among one of the reasons people evacuate Clinton Road.

Cristina: That's so scary.

Jack: Yep. And screaming quite loud, like, come save me, like, almost is trying to get you to, oh, my God, there's a baby.

Cristina: I don't know. I would convince myself it's a crow pretending to be a baby.

Jack: The other one, people have posited that maybe there are animals pretending to cry because children might have fallen in the park or whatever.

Cristina: And they heard it because birds like to imitate sound. Yes, that's the sounds it's hearing constantly. I mean, like, what if an echo was of a baby crying or a lady laughing? Like, those are real.

Jack: And then the birds hear it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Yep. Because they would also be in proximity to the thin places. And birds fly. They could be floating in and out all the time, landing in different places they don't even know.

Cristina: And that's why you hear the thing crying. But you're not sure what that one is. But you know, there's a baby crying.

Jack: That actually makes a lot of sense. I think you just solved a lot of the noises. Because it again, birds imitate sounds. Birds fly. A place riddled with thin places. Birds flying, not seeing them, you just hear. Now you're over there now and you heard there was a park there. However long ago you heard it, you go, you're now in the past. You think you're in the same place. You're making the sounds. You heard. There's nothing there. But now kids. People hear kids laughing and baby's crying. And then you fly through the thing again. You're no longer there. Now you're in this time.

Cristina: That's so complicated.

Jack: And it's just birds, usually crows, which happen to be in woody, wooded areas and in farmland. And this is a very recluse removed kind of rural area riddled within places. A couple of flights. You're moving through time. It is easy to. I think that is a great solution for that problem. I think the sounds can't be relied on because it's probably birds imitating. And that would answer a lot. Unless There was a house somewhere near there in a different time. Which again that still holds a possibility. That in the future this place is a bunch of people with the intent to do something horrible eventually.

Cristina: Is there a kids park there currently?

Jack: Yes. Right next to Paradise Road.

Cristina: Okay. Yeah. Like it's.

Jack: The theory, seems to be my theory that Paradise Road is gonna grow and eat all of Clinton Road. Like the entirety is going to become one new town, new city type of thing.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And that's going to be sacrificed way in the future to make a different stone. And that's why it's so f****** riddled. We're talking about maybe the largest stone that exists is going to be there.

Cristina: That's crazy.

Jack: Which is why it's also the most haunted place on earth.

Cristina: Whoa.

Jack: I think the largest stone and the fact that people have seen entire wreckage as far as the eye can see.

Cristina: I would like to see that. That's so scary. But cool.

Jack: It's not right? Yeah, it is an absurd thing that could have happened. Next one is ghost carriages.

Cristina: So carriage is like the thing with the horse?

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Or that old timey.

Jack: Yes, yes, yes. Now again the fact that there doesn't seem to be something traceable far back enough. It just seems like people were using this road the same way all of time. And then sometime in the future there were people living here like a fuckton. But at the moment and looking backwards in time, it's just more empty and more empty and more empty. So something crazy couldn't have happened here with less and less and less and less and less people. But that suggests that the distortion is throughout time and that we do see into the past. Even if this did happen in the future because we do see weird s*** from the past. The kid looked old timey and the carriages are old timey. Yeah, it's just normal New Jersey being old New Jersey. But us seeing those moments because of thin places.

Cristina: But is the carriage like. Do they. They call it ghost carriage because it's like riding along by itself or something?

Jack: Yeah, it's riding on the. On Clinton Road. People when they get close enough it vanishes. And like people have gone through it scared they're gonna hit it and sometimes it's gonna crash into them and just disappears. And it's really probably just went through you and like ghosts the closer you get because they're kind of translucent. You can't really see them up close. You got to be at a distance where what with a plasma looks more concentrated. It's an echo. It seems to be that it's definite. Most definitely an echo.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And the last one is last for a reason in the echoes section and with a question mark, which is the Paradise Road cemetery. So Paradise Road Cemetery, like the playground is actually opposite sides of the playground on that same dirt road.

Cristina: Horrifying. Okay.

Jack: And the cemetery, you know, it's a cemetery, so haunted or whatever. The problem is the cemetery doesn't have a lot of people. It's a small cemetery, but the cemetery seems to have an absurd amount of activity. So it's just very, very, very active and happens to be at the same opposite side of the children. But there have been people seen there at all times, always active. Now, what we know about cemeteries is that cemeteries do. People are scared of them inherently. So this doesn't bounce off of a thin place. Because the problem here is that people do see a lot of repetition, but people do see ghosts staring right back at them. People do see ghosts trying to lure them in. Like, they look straight at them and tell them to come over here. But we've seen, when we were doing the Christmas episode, what graveyards really are. Because people are scared of them. Enough potential fear energy exists that creatures from the shadow realm do manifest there.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Okay, and so now we're getting to actual. Yes, there's ghosts there because the whole place is riddled with thin places.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: But this spot actually has phantoms. It has djinn and other s*** from.

Cristina: The shadow realm there just hanging out.

Jack: Because it's fear filled.

Cristina: It's. The whole place is fear filled.

Jack: That is my next sentence. Okay, now the graveyard, extra scary. So you go to Clinton Road, you're extra scared already, and then you see that s***. Extra scary.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Now we got to make a distinction because all of Clinton Road is scary to people. And we were just talking about the echoes that people see there. But that does not mean that there isn't a bunch of s*** responding to people and a bunch of s*** that isn't there due to the thin places, but they're due to the fear. Things you can interact with, of course, of which there are more than there are ghosts. People have stories of literally getting harmed. People have physical proof in photos of. I don't know where the f*** this came from. Weird scratches that seem unnatural, Marks on their bodies, things saying their name, things talking.

Cristina: How do they know? Like, do they. I know they're not like us, but, like, does that give them special abilities? I know, like strength and whatever, but, like psychic abilities. Why?

Jack: I don't think it would make them psychic.

Cristina: Like, how would they Say your name.

Jack: I think you're with people who would say your name and they hear your name being said and they're assuring you, yeah, I'm here, too.

Cristina: Okay. Yeah.

Jack: You know who goes to Clinton Road by themselves? You're hanging.

Cristina: That's true.

Jack: Oh, I'm scared, Steve.

Cristina: We're gonna give their nicknames if we ever decide to go. Okay. We're not using our names. Do not call me by my name.

Jack: Fair.

Cristina: Because, like, I do not want to hear something say yes. Oh, my gosh.

Jack: No. It's nuts. And that is. Yeah, it's a really, really meant, often mentioned people with scratch marks. There are people who hear voices talking directly to them, saying their names. There are people who hear conversations that then stop when they're in the area and start referencing things that they're doing. It's just the weirdest f****** thing.

Cristina: That is scary.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Now, the problem we're facing is that we are 45 minutes into this episode, and I think the next section is gonna take about as long. So I think I'm not gonna do the Phantoms part. And this first part is entirely the echoes. This is kind of what I meant.

Cristina: By we're gonna be doing this for a while.

Jack: We're gonna be doing this for a while.

Cristina: And even you think past Halloween.

Jack: I think past Halloween. We have to unpack some of these things that I think are going to be full episodes of their own. Just to kind of. This is all just trying to understand the most active spot.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Why beat around looking at other places if we can understand the most active spot? The knowledge we'll get from here will trivialize everything else. It'll be too easy to understand. And I think that's going to be a healthy approach. So instead of going into these next two sections that are just already set up episodes, I think we can, now that we've gone through the whole thing, have a short discussion before we close it off about what this informs us on. So I think the things that definitely don't matter here, because everything we've mentioned here is definitely an echo.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Nothing checks out is not an echo. But the information we acquire by looking at these echoes is quite interesting. I think the boy and the bridge doesn't matter. That's literally an echo. The girl in the gown, literally an echo. There's no interaction. The hitchhiker, literally no interaction. The bicyclist, no interaction. It's when we get to the lake that we have interesting situations happening. A sustained, thin place that seems to always look at the same time or at multiple times, but is always present and you could actively choose to look through it. Interesting.

Cristina: That is interesting. And the girl with the white.

Jack: The woman, the lady in the white dress.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Hers is a different situation because it seems that way. The only place you can or the only time you see her is by.

Cristina: Slipping into the echo itself.

Jack: The echo itself.

Cristina: You have to complete whatever cycle you.

Jack: Have to do the Groundhog Day until you exit on the other end. So that's definitely something exceptionally interesting. And it would suggest that there is the possibility that there are thin places like this elsewhere that two events might be tied together.

Cristina: That's so interesting. I do think that's. That has to be another. I feel like that story has been around in other locations. Like I don't think I've heard. Like I've heard that. But not in Clinton Road.

Jack: It's funny because the original story came from Clinton Road. It was about the 1770s with people showing up. And this story took place with carriages to begin with.

Cristina: Okay. Because I'm pretty sure I've heard one that's like somewhere in the south though.

Jack: Yeah. So this place, this story originated with carriages. It's never an actual car that the original story was with. And this is also why they assume her dress looks like. The dress looks old timey and s***. And that she's out there, just typical girl. And then when you go to the house, the house is kind of like farming looking and stuff. And it's like we're. We're not that far the out there. Why is this house here? Type of vibes. So there's a lot of vibes that suggest that this is really, really, really old echo. Which would explain more how they're connected. Right. Because you give enough time from one echo to the other, there's enough gap that maybe eventually the thing happened. But the problem is how the. Did the other event happen to coincide with a person knocking on the door? Man, that's f****** weird. Unless the family of the girl is somehow involved with the s*** that's causing these thin places. There must be something, because how are they so connected to both the girl and them simultaneously? I get that. That's what's happening.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Hers is the entrance, his is the exit. But how the f***. What are the odds that her way out there and they gotta drive four miles in the opposite direction and the exit just so happens to be there?

Cristina: I don't know if we find other stories like this that'd be interesting.

Jack: That'd be interesting.

Cristina: That's unrelated but like has its own one loop thing. Yeah.

Jack: That you gotta get through it in order to get out.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: That's worth evaluating. You see, that's my point. This is very interesting. We don't necessarily acquire too much information, as much as a lot of questions. Yes. But then that brings up another point and I guess it's worth mentioning this house leaves where you find the girl to her family. You know the. How her family's house is in the direction of the asylum. It's one of the closest structures to the asylum. That's a coincidence and a half.

Cristina: Yes. And that's why you think the family's involved somehow.

Jack: The family could have something to do with it. It's possible. The people in this area have always been involved. And the future is people who aren't from the area who gonna be invited for other reasons.

Cristina: Yeah. Okay. Interesting. There's something there. Maybe. I don't know.

Jack: Something there for sure. Same thing goes with the train. That's an interesting. The train in the car is really fascinating because the train in the car suggests the future civilization is going to establish here. Like a lot of people are going to move in here. But although the train tells us enough people are going to be here that we're going to add transportation, the cars tell us far enough from that point.

Cristina: Something that's gonna happen. Okay.

Jack: It's gonna get really hardcore. I think those are the things that definitely matter. I think your description of birds is genius because that does in fact solve a lot. It is. Birds do imitate sounds and this answers a lot when it comes to weird sounds in the woods. And like, this is impossible. And how. And it's like, well, birds imitate babies all the time.

Cristina: Mm. Birds are weird creatures and themselves especially.

Jack: Crows which are drowning in that area.

Cristina: So it makes.

Jack: It checks out. And they're slipping in and out of different thin places, landing in different. That all checks out. So I think out of this episode we definitely already have some topics we're gonna be looking at again, which are the haunted lake, the lady in white, the abandoned asylum, the ghost train and the abandoned cars. All of those things have to be checked out.

Cristina: What about the cemetery?

Jack: The cemetery. I don't think it necessarily has to be checked out as much as it is an interesting sp because it's both phantoms and ghosts. It's clearly things that are present and clearly things that are not. Which checks out with the Christmas episode, which people go to see their dead passed away relatives just present. And then some people are like, no, but Those things are trying to get you. And it's like, okay, both those narratives kind of fit together.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Things from the other side and things from this side at a different time. I think that is the reality of what we're looking at here. I think that's right.

Cristina: You've got a lot just from that.

Jack: Just from echoes. Echoes that are actually going to inform us on the bigger picture, because these are how these technologies have affected space, time and how they work. And understanding them might tell us a lot of ways that we can approach visualizing data from the past that we still haven't understood. Data from the present that might be too ambiguous. Information and. And perspective all working out. Yeah, I think that's pretty much it. I think that's what we're getting from this episode. So instead of. So this is part one, the menu echoes.

Cristina: Whoa.

Jack: Longest thing, I guess. Next one is part two, the menu phantoms.

Cristina: Okay. And what was part three again?

Jack: I forgot that one is just the most important stuff, the significant things.

Cristina: Oh, yeah. Dude, that's so ridiculous.

Jack: Yeah. Because what I just mentioned are things that, again, like I said, it didn't seem important at first, but maybe we'd find some gems, which we did.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: The things I know we're gonna look into are in that last section, and that's like 25 different points that are all relevant.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: So, okay, these are the echoes. You guys heard that if there's anything of these that you guys think are more important or maybe you think I.

Cristina: Can see the connection that we can't. Like the echo that's leading into another echo. Like, if you can help us out with that.

Jack: Yeah, if you can think about that in any kind of manner, shape, or form, or you see patterns that we're missing, or you think we're overvaluing something and you got a way to credit it and make us remove it so we got less to look into. Yeah, all of the above. Reach out to us on our socials. You could find us at just Convopod, on Tick Tock, on Twitter, AKA X, on Facebook, on Instagram. You can't find us on YouTube or on Reddit because we've been banned from both.

Cristina: Remember to subscribe. Right. And review the show.

Jack: Yes. And word of mouth. Tell everyone about this. Any thinker you have who's into the weirdest, fringiest things. Science fiction, science, reality and fantasy, all of this. Tell them it might all actually be real, connected. Yes. Show them this so they know this.

Cristina: Has been the Rambling Podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Bye. S.A. good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Colazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by Great Thoughts info, art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McAllister with social media managed by Amber Black.

Rambling 269: The Harrowing of Hell

What was the true reason for the Crucifixion? What happened to Jesus after getting Crucified? What was his ultimate goal? The duo unpack the Harrowing of Hell and the fact that according to the Bible it seems Jesus died a sinner, but why?

Rambling 269: The Harrowing of Hell

+Episode Details

Topics DIscussed:

  • The Crucifiction
  • Jesus the Sinner
  • The Journey to Hell
  • Hidden Prison
  • Retrieving the Goods
  • Yaldabaoth (AKA Jehovah of Dark)

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod

Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod

Instagram - https://instagram.com/justconvopod


+Transcript

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And this is the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas. And it's so. I mean, again, it's not like I have a lot. It's. I don't have a lot of notes. It's more that. This is extremely dense and it focuses on a situation that we've heavily overlooked and we've looked kind of straight at a million thousand times. Composed a little something here for us to look at and it's going to answer so. It's so small, but it's going to answer so many questions. Who's what? Why? Where? Who's doing what? Why are they doing it? There's so many with the smallest of things, and it doesn't necessarily tie to Hermes, but it connects to him indirectly. And also, before we even get to this, Hermes Trismegistus invents the magnum opus and the Hermetic seal, both steps of creating the philosopher's stone. There's no way Hermes Trismegistus was not working one on one with Eloi, the one who made the Stone of Adam and the Stone of Eve. There's no way. Okay, it's literally named after a dude who shows up mad later is because this guy was there way before. It's his name for the process.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So he must have been way back then. How.

Cristina: Humans are somehow special then in the story.

Jack: Well, if he is a necromancer, death is not a problem.

Cristina: Yeah, but it seems like necromancers come from humans.

Jack: Yes, yes.

Cristina: Yeah, like, that's very interesting. I don't know how he relates to anything, but it seems like that's.

Jack: Well, yeah, no, it's something weird about that. The possibility that Hermes Trismegistus is a title itself, that's another possibility. Many guys name that, but I think that's not the case. I think it is one guy. Because through the case of necromancy, we seem to consistently defy the need for. For age. And time kind of just dissolves into the background because long enough gets anywhere. The idea would be, can necromancer share this and that, would that explain something like an loi lasting long, even if not millions of years? Because as we know, we literally established it is the last name or bare minimum, some sort of title or position, and there were different people, different. But that means in this case, fair enough. Maybe he's not sharing immortality because Jehovah learned this with Azrael. Eloi didn't. Which means there were many Elois. The first discovery of immortality for someone non necromancer was Israel. That might be the actual first instance of immortality within biological beings.

Cristina: And how did they figure it out?

Jack: Science.

Cristina: The science. Okay.

Jack: Asriel. Yes. She's a geneticist.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: And she solved that. But that happened in the time of Jehovah, sometime in like, 7,000 BC, so that's relatively recent.

Cristina: Do you think the unicorn horns have anything to do with that?

Jack: No.

Cristina: Or unicorns at all?

Jack: No, no, no, no.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Definitely not. But that's just definitely something for us to think about. We still got to look into who is within the title of Eloi, whether it's family members of Jehovah. Although I've seen all names after that. I've seen Jehovah, Eloi. I've seen Yahweh Eloi. I've seen Elohim, Eloi. I thought Elohim and Eloi were more close together, but no Elohim, Eloi, which means Elohim is somebody in the family or somebody who is just Eloi. The first one is just Eloi, presumably. Eloi. The first Eloi was the first Eloi, and he did a thing that made him important. And so Legend of Zelda style, every next individual assumes the name just like Zelda.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: I mean, not Zelda. Link.

Jack: Just like Link.

Cristina: Just like Link. Yeah.

Jack: So that's what I'm thinking. Anyways, as for what we're talking about today, a week ago, do you know what was a week ago?

Cristina: Do I know what was one week ago? No. Was this at Patrix Day? I don't remember.

Jack: No, no.

Cristina: That's two weeks ago.

Jack: That was way longer than what you said. It was the day Jesus died.

Cristina: Oh, yeah. Okay. Easter.

Jack: Yeah, Easter.

Cristina: And we just didn't talk about it. Did we talk about.

Jack: No, we didn't talk about Easter. I mean, we might have brushed over while talking about something else, but.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: The problem is we've messed up because Easter should have been our starting point for many, many reasons.

Cristina: Starting point for what?

Jack: Everything.

Cristina: Everything.

Jack: Everything.

Cristina: Easter is that important.

Jack: Easter has a lot. I'm just gonna spit out some sentences at certain points, and you're gonna be like, how the f***? And like, that's too black and white to not be literally what's happening. So do you know what happened on Easter?

Cristina: He came back from the dead.

Jack: Right, Right.

Cristina: That's all I gotta get. Yeah.

Jack: Okay, so he died on the crucifixion day. Then three days later he comes back. And we know that story really vividly because he came back through the Shanto gates. He met with some homies, according to the Bible, you know, he met with some people, blah, blah, blah. And then he did. But we know he kept kind of like wandering around doing things. And he died in India or whatever the h***. Not even in India. He actually died where the. There were. No, it was in India where the fairies are.

Cristina: I think it was.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So sure. All of these things Jesus did after he came to life, all you have to wonder is what did he do in those three days? Okay, so he died. Let's unpack the logic. He died and he built the Shinto gates because. What?

Cristina: Because to come back here. No, that was beforehand. He died and then he built this.

Jack: No, he built the Shinto gates because he knew he would die. Yes. Why did he build the Shinto gates? To come back from where?

Cristina: The Shadow room.

Jack: Why would he go to the Shadow Realm?

Cristina: Because of all the blood drinking.

Jack: Okay, well established.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Why was he drinking blood if he was already overpowered?

Cristina: that's a good question. I don't know. It was important somehow because of the religion. He needed people to drink his blood. So I guess he also had to.

Jack: I don't know, obviously. So that he doesn't permanently die. That's all it is. It's so that you don't permanently die. Right. You go to the Shadow Realm. He built the gate. Then he could just come back. He can't die. He established immortality. That is loop.

Cristina: Okay?

Jack: You die without the adrenochrome. You just die. You die with the adrenochrome, you go to the other side. He built the gates, he can come back. The adrenochrome. Was the located immortality in his case?

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Or was it?

Cristina: Or was it. I don't know.

Jack: In the Bible. In the Bible it says that Jesus went to h*** for three days. Let's just talking about the Bible real quick. Not talking about the fact of the matter, but let's talk about the Bible. Jesus went to h*** for three days, not heaven. Christian's Messiah died and actually went to h***. It doesn't matter what logic they try to reason that one away with. He lied in the eyes of God and went to h***. He didn't kill anybody. He didn't harm. No. Which means the one thing he did must have been a lie, because everything else checked out. So he was. He was just lying the whole time? According to the Bible itself, he went to h*** after he died. Not heaven. He didn't die a martyr. He died a sinner. Ooh.

Cristina: Is that how they. But that's not how they see it.

Jack: Oh, no, because how they see it, they rationalize it. He chose to go there.

Cristina: How does that make sense? For what purpose?

Jack: Obviously, the story is bullshit.

Cristina: Yeah, but what's their purpose of him wanting to go to h***?

Jack: It's not a matter of them having a purpose for him wanting to go to h***. It's having to cover up what actually happened and having no way to do.

Cristina: It the right way. Mm.

Jack: What did he do while he was in h***?

Cristina: Talk to his father?

Jack: No, because his father isn't in h***.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: What did he do when he went to h***?

Cristina: I don't even know the story. I have no idea.

Jack: I'm gonna tell you. That's the point of this.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But I'm hoping you'd guess.

Cristina: Oh, that was my guess. And you're saying no. So he.

Jack: You know, his father's not in h*** according to the Bible, so that doesn't make sense.

Cristina: I was just his real father without the.

Jack: The things we've talked about just with the Bible, why'd he go?

Cristina: Who? The creatures.

Jack: What would Jesus do? What creatures? We're not talking about. We know. We're talking about just the Bible.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: I'm saying don't think about what we talked about. Just the Bible.

Cristina: What they say he wants.

Jack: What do you think they say that's.

Cristina: I. Honestly, I haven't. I don't know. Why would they want. Okay, let me think. I put the heavy go. He chose.

Jack: He chose.

Cristina: He chose because he wanted to know. I don't know. He was curious. Okay.

Jack: Okay.

Cristina: He's curious. What happens to sinners? I don't know.

Jack: Brace yourself, because I'm going to tell you what the Bible says he went there for. But the problem is, I didn't need anything else. I looked for more.

Cristina: I.

Jack: But all it did was confirm. So then I just came back to the Bible. Because what I'm about to tell you is too cut and dry. It doesn't matter without the context. But we have so much context. The next two sentences I'm about to tell you are going to do a lot. I'll begin with the less important one, and then we'll discuss in both terms what we know and what the narrative is. Sentence number one, that's gonna shake you up and falls along what we're Saying when he went to h*** for those three days, one of the two things he did was release people he deemed righteous who were sent there in the Old Testament. Now, let's go. Hold up. Let's go back a little bit and clarify that this absolutely means Jesus and Jehovah were never on the same side on paper in the Bible. That makes no sense. Jesus went to h*** to free the people he did not agree Jehovah put there.

Cristina: Which. How. How's that possible? How do they not think the same?

Jack: Because you're not the same person, obviously. But according to the Bible, how do they. They don't. It's a bunch of cognitive dissonance. It doesn't happen. It doesn't play. Oh, no. He's both. And he change or what? No.

Cristina: How does he change? No, that doesn't make sense.

Jack: It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. It's not.

Cristina: Then he's definitely not perfect. He's so far from perfect.

Jack: Yeah, that would just be flaws. That would be infinite flaws.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: He changed his mind every 10 minutes and he has no plan if he's changing his mind all the time. There can't be a perfect plan because he changes the plan every 10 seconds. You're telling me he threw some people down there and 2000 years later he's like, no, come on, I gotta take him out?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like, no. Then your plan sucks.

Cristina: It makes no sense. Okay.

Jack: Yeah. You're building the plan as you go, essentially. It makes zero sense.

Cristina: He said there's a second reason.

Jack: We are going to unpack this first.

Cristina: Okay?

Jack: We're not just rushing through this. We don't do that. We're gonna talk about the fact that Jesus, according to the Bible, is not Jehovah. According to the Bible, he went to h*** to free other people who Jehovah put there, but he disagrees with their presence in there. Well, that's crazy. Yeah, it's nuts. And specifically Old Testament, which brings up another conflicting issue. Yaldaba is Old Testament God. No, that's Jehovah of Dark. Before we found out who he was, it was the guy from the shadow realm. Is the guy who talked to the rabbi. It is that guy.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: That was Yaldabaoth. He was the Old Testament God, and.

Cristina: He'S the one putting people in h***.

Jack: He's the one who put those people. He took them to the shadow realm.

Cristina: Huh?

Jack: He took these people to the shadow realm and Jesus went and got him.

Cristina: Why did he take them to the shadow realm?

Jack: They were prisoners of his These are the people he did not like. These are the people who did things he did not approve of. These are prisoners. Jesus knew where to find out about prison, bare minimum and free people. Let's. That's the thought that should be coming to your mind. He knew exactly where to go when he died. It only took him three freaking days to get there, save them, and be like, I'm good.

Cristina: How? How?

Jack: Think of the ability to zone into some s*** everybody else has been looking for. And he did it in three f****** days.

Cristina: He's more supernatural than the shadow realm creatures.

Jack: So by miles. By miles, you found the highest thing within the these two realms. At least in three days. I am assuming he found them on the first day and it just took him three days to get back because the third day is when we saw him. So bare minimum took him like two days. And assuming he did more than just that, he might have just gotten their freedom instantly.

Cristina: Do you have any idea how many people there were that he showed up with?

Jack: No. They were unimportant. They were just prisoners of that time.

Cristina: How do people not think that's crazy? He came back from the dead with people.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Or did they go to heaven? Like, what's the story of what happened to the people he saved from h***? Did they come back to life in Earth or did they go straight to heaven?

Jack: Unclear. I didn't care gives a s***. I was more impressed about like, that's. If we had the answer to that question, what would that even mean? It'd be a bullshit lie. They went to heaven. What does that mean? Nothing. Nothing. That's useless information.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And if they were just freed out here, then. Okay, you zombies set people free.

Cristina: I don't know. That'd be strange.

Jack: Are many other jinn out here? They wouldn't be the first. They're definitely not. The last is just normal nothing. The action itself is what's weird.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Not the people. What happens to them? Who cares? Because like, who cares? It's just people. He found them in two days.

Cristina: That is pretty.

Jack: In the shadow realm. That's already described as a convoluted mirror house.

Cristina: Yes. But also, I don't know how much is it because it seems like people could easily travel it also, I don't know. It seems like if you. You just stumble upon it, you know where you're going.

Jack: Well, I guess not really enough times. It like anything else, you'll become familiar.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: How do you become familiar in two days?

Cristina: That's true.

Jack: The judge got lost.

Cristina: The judge got it was his sister who just knew he.

Jack: No, his sister didn't just know. He showed his sister.

Cristina: Oh, after he got lost?

Jack: Yeah, he got lost in there. He then started using that after he got familiar with and then he showed his sister. People find these things by accident. They get.

Cristina: So how does Jesus.

Jack: How would he. Unless it wasn't his first shot there.

Cristina: I guess not. I'm guessing because he did make the portals beforehand, he could have just been.

Jack: Dipping in and out at casual moments. But those portals don't work. Those portals are one way. So how was he getting over there?

Cristina: How did he as a necromancer?

Jack: Well, we don't actually. We're assuming he's a necromancer. And this adds to that for sure. For sure. But we don't actually know he is.

Cristina: But if he is, he could go back and forth.

Jack: Yeah, Easily. Easily, easily. And he could kind of go. He wouldn't even need to walk the shadow realm. He could live.

Cristina: Doesn't make sense because like he can live forever as a necromancer.

Jack: Exactly. And when I explained the other part to you, it's obvious that the death was important. So he couldn't actually get in there. He was legitimately struggling to get to the shadow realm.

Cristina: Then how did he figure it out?

Jack: How do you figure it out? What did he know? How? How did he know?

Cristina: How did he know? Does he have a portal?

Jack: But for a fact, even within the Bible, not even going anywhere else we can factually determine. Yes. Jesus is not in accordance with Yaldabaoth AKA Jehovah of Dark. He went and freed those things in second. He could find them. Yaldaba is hiding. Yalda is hiding. I don't know if the Elysians are hiding. Yalda is hiding.

Cristina: Why? It feels like he just wanted to make an enemy for no reason. Unless there's a reason for him doing that.

Jack: He didn't want to make an enemy. He created the entire earthrealm to watch actual Elfame consciousness find its way out of the program so that he himself could replicate. Wasn't any of those things. It was just how are they doing it? So I can see and do it.

Cristina: But why would he do it? That's just so crazy that he would just that for like how did he know where they were? Why would he do it?

Jack: Where they were? All of these things? For sure?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: I think Jesus person only knew Hermes Trismegistus.

Cristina: Why do you think that?

Jack: If he's a necromancer and we can't find any other teachers and it's likely there's only one. It's Hermes. Which means if Jesus is a necromancer, he had to learn it from Hermes unless he himself made his own version of it. But we would know about that.

Cristina: But we know there's a Hermes version of Hermes in the Bible. He's a character.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Okay. So was he around Jesus this time? I mean, I guess he's been around all this.

Jack: No, he shows up later.

Cristina: Later.

Jack: Actual Hermes, according to actual narrative, shows up much later.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And he's mentioned as a philosopher. He's not an important person.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: And actually, I don't think he shows up in the canon books of the Bible.

Cristina: Okay, whatever.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He shows up in other books.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: That talk about the people around. But none of that is the point. The second thing is the most important thing here. Because the second thing, first thing gave us all the answers we needed for a million things we. We knew without proof. Now we know, like, yeah, they don't like each other. They can't. They're not the same person. This literally in words in the book that people are like, no, they are. No, the book told you they're not.

Cristina: Yeah, obviously.

Jack: Like, the book is literally telling you there's three guys here. That big guy, the new big guy, that big guy, the old big guy, and this guy who you're calling both of those guys, and he apparently doesn't agree with s***. Either of them do agree with anything they've ever done. Crazy. None of that matters. All of that, as dense and rich in information as that is matters next to the next sentence, because the next sentence is an oh, is everybody horrified? Situation.

Cristina: Is what?

Jack: Everybody's horrified.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: They're scared of Jesus. I know for a fact they're scared to Jesus.

Cristina: Who are they?

Jack: Everybody.

Cristina: Everybody.

Jack: Everybody. You were right. Everybody's hiding from Jesus. Everybody's. There's nobody not hiding from Jesus because there's a lot of people fighting to make a lot of different powers. You know what this guy went did when he went to h***? His second objective was rescue these other people. That was the second objective. He was just there. That was day two. I know I was exaggerating. I'm fully aware. He saved the first goal and did it in the first day, maybe in like two hours. He went down there, somehow found Yaldabaoth's f****** bowser castle or some s*** down there. I don't f****** know. And then he got to the guy's prison, not only just freed all these individuals, the main quest was to Acquire Adam and Eve who were in h***, AKA the shadow realm that Yaldabao somehow acquired. What?

Cristina: But don't they.

Jack: In the Bible it literally says Jesus went to h*** to save Adam and Eve and the righteous from the Old Testament. He instantaneously acquired them too. And then was like I'm here.

Cristina: How does that make sense? Everything. He has Adam and Eve.

Jack: He has Adam and Eve.

Cristina: But we thought those other people had.

Jack: What the Alicians had Adam and Eve.

Cristina: I guess they had.

Jack: They had. Now let me reiterate that Jesus easily found Yaldabaoth's prison, freed a bunch of people and acquired Adam and Eve wherever Yaldabaoth hid them. Meaning we know Yaldabaoth had his own stone as well. The Bible tells us about Adam and Eve because the Bible only knows knows about Adam and Eve. But Jesus was there. Why would he only take Adam and Eve?

Cristina: That's how they put it.

Jack: That's how they put it.

Cristina: They don't know anything else.

Jack: We know he has a lot more. We know he has a lot more and not really a lot more, but it's powerful and it's arguably the first one.

Cristina: How. How. How did it end up. How did they end up there?

Jack: How did they end up there? So presumably because just with this we have a lot of story given to us at some point. Yaldabaoth actually got it from the Elysians and we have not uncovered that story. There must have been a battle or an invasion or something. And Yaldabaoth acquired the. The philosopher stones that the Alicians had. Adam and Eve are both in or were in possession of Yaldabaoth. Somehow he got them. I have no idea how. We've not seen a crumb of this story until right now.

Cristina: Yeah, I mean they probably. He didn't probably have to fight them if he made them to make that in the first place. Right.

Jack: Like his might be stronger than he is. So how do you just take it from them?

Cristina: Maybe it was a pact between him and the first guy. I forgot his name.

Jack: Loi.

Cristina: Loi. There you go. Like come on.

Jack: No, he dipped on them.

Cristina: That's what they. That's the only thing we know. We don't know if there was some.

Jack: Then you'd be adding complete uncon. Like things. We have nothing to back.

Cristina: We don't have no epic battle happening either. Over.

Jack: Well, those are all these. I'm just spitballing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: These are all theories. Yes, but it was sounding like you were. No, this is definitely the case. But no, if it's a Theory perfectly fine. Because who knows? Who knows what the possibility is? It's. The problem is that there is no ability to tell. Again, we have. We don't see a battle. I don't know where that is. And if it is, and we'll stumble upon it in the future. We haven't. Yeah, we don't know. We didn't see him, like, going off anybody. We don't know that they handed it to him. We just. All we get is Jesus stealing it from him suddenly. Like, what? Not even from them? From him.

Cristina: From him.

Jack: It's like, whoa, I didn't even know he had it.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: I thought he ran away. He's just chilling with it.

Cristina: He's just chilling with it. How's that possible?

Jack: Or he did leave, and you can't leave with it because it's part of the program. If you're leaving the program, how would.

Cristina: You take it out? Yeah, I guess you wouldn't take it with you. It's. It's just to help him get out. So. Yeah, it may have been easier for him to steal them. But then why didn't the other.

Jack: Why didn't anybody else know? He had to be there, bro. Or he could detect it in a way they can't.

Cristina: Or whoever is protecting it should still, like. Even though he left, it was probably still so protected that no one else tried.

Jack: And then Jesus effortlessly just cruised in there in like 15 minutes after dying and just got it.

Cristina: Yeah, well, there's something else happening with him. We don't know.

Jack: Yeah, no, there's a lot going on. But tell me this isn't like a bomb drop. This is crazy.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: How the h*** did we just, within one story, find out that this moved two hands?

Cristina: This makes a lot of sense, I guess.

Jack: It makes so much sense to a lot of things. Like the Naoa Shinto game. Makes absolute sense. Assuming you couldn't get there for whatever reason you orchestrated, planned and executed your entire death to get there, steal that s*** and come back.

Cristina: But how did he know?

Jack: Well, he was talking a bunch of blasphemous s***. Just walk around. If there is no if. Everything is censorship. You just go outside and start screaming anti government s***. Then they killed him.

Cristina: No, I mean how did he know where it was?

Jack: Oh, I have no idea.

Cristina: That huge thing.

Jack: That's a f****** problem. Yeah.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: How did he just know? He must have known so long before beginning the plan.

Cristina: Yeah, actually think he does whatever thing that affected us. Us. Not us, but everyone. When you know, he was. You think he control it he like kind of like. What's his name? The wizard.

Jack: What wizard?

Cristina: From what I know from crap. I can't. Author King Arthur.

Jack: Merlin.

Cristina: Yes. He had that special power of being able to time. To mess with time or something. No, write his history.

Jack: He slows down time.

Cristina: He slows down time. I thought he like. I thought he like affected Arthur's future or something. Didn't he have to write the story and then the story would happen or something?

Jack: No. He made Arthur easy to manipulate and then fed society a story that would eventually reach his ears. Which is all that the lady of the lady took advantage of and twisted the story even more in her favor.

Cristina: Okay, okay. Well anyway, because maybe Jesus can dream about that stuff though he can see into things that we wouldn't understand. Like Santa Claus seeing who's good or who's been good or whatever.

Jack: That is fascinating point. That is a really, really, really, really good observation, Santa. You don't have to call him Santa. St. Nicholas.

Cristina: Whatever.

Jack: St. Nicholas does have an ability to either stop time and live from his perspective years and years and years and see everybody within, to us feels like no time has passed. Or he actively has an ability to see all things simultaneously. Which presumably is a little necromancy trick.

Cristina: Yes, yes. But then that makes Jesus a necromancer.

Jack: He would be born as a necromancer.

Cristina: Yeah, he wouldn't even need a teacher. Why?

Jack: Because necromance, you're not. It's not a race, it's. It's a discipline.

Cristina: Yes. And also they could. They don't need to die. They all. No, wait, they do die. They die.

Jack: And if he was a necromancer, he wouldn't need to. He wouldn't need anything to get into the shadow realm. His skills could get him there. He's not a necromancer. That's the only. All these things are pointing at. He's not a necromancer. So we have some other problem. He actually most likely knew Hermes and is still not a f****** necromancer and is still the next thing over. A necromancer.

Cristina: He's so similar. It's something.

Jack: We got three necromancers and one Jesus. There are less Jesus, whatever the h*** he is.

Cristina: How's he not a necromancer? I feel like everything makes him seem like one.

Jack: Him needing to die to enter the shadow realm immediately violates that.

Cristina: But they all needed to die to start living forever, I guess. They had human lives, they became necromancers. They died. Or some other like we don't know the steps.

Jack: Fair, fair, fair, fair. Maybe it was a two birds with one stone situation. Maybe I can easily get into the shadow realm, but I haven't achieved my immortality yet. So when I die because they crucify me, two birds, one stone. I'll be where I'm going anyways.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And I'll finally achieve the last step of this metamorphosis.

Cristina: I think that sounds right. That could definitely be a necromancer.

Jack: It could have been the last step towards becoming a necromancer for sure. Because we follow the stories after he returns. And now we're talking about some trippy as balls s*** dude showing up in furnaces and just hanging out with guys. People seeing his face in the clouds, him just rolling up in impossible locations. You're on a boat, he just walked out of nowhere.

Cristina: Stories from when he was alive.

Jack: No, people saw visions of him forever.

Cristina: Oh, crap.

Jack: Yeah, most of the stories are quoted. Yes. Oh, but there's a bunch of stories of him being seen afterwards that's so crazy. Which could fall in line with being a necromancer. So he's a necromancer on top of whatever the h*** he was to begin with. He's abusing Elysian blood. Yes, while abusing human blood.

Cristina: Because he's also have humans now. Right.

Jack: Also, I think in this discussion we have come to the answer for why a Nephilim is illegal. And it's because a human is the only person who can become a necromancer.

Cristina: And because he's part human.

Jack: Oh, yes. His human part is the necromancer part. And Elysians cannot be a necromancer. None of their technology can so much as scratch the overpowered nature of a necromancer.

Cristina: He's. Oh my gosh, he's so overpowered. And it's because he's an ephem, but also necromancer.

Jack: Oh my gosh, He's a necromancer.

Cristina: Nephilim, he's everything they fear. If they fear things, this has to be the thing.

Jack: Weirdly enough, according to the Holy Bible, by definition at this point, he's the Antichrist. Right? He's all of the characteristics of all of the things, which is the beast.

Cristina: He is the.

Jack: He's literally the beast. The Bible both tells us the light bringer, Lucifer and the bearer of light, Jesus, are different people, but they give us the same f****** descriptor.

Cristina: Kidding me? I don't know. They're not very bright about it. Okay, I don't Know, they're not. They're not thinking about it. It's written by a million of different people. Like no one's connecting the dots or they're doing the really. I don't know. I wouldn't say. The best that they can.

Jack: It was a legitimate huge effort to make Jesus look right and make Lucifer look bad. And you have to. There's too much evidence of the events that you. None of the events you're claiming happened. We can prove all the events. You're like, put it. You gotta think of it differently. All of those events have a record. So they're like, no, don't look at it like that. Look at it our way. It's like. But your way is made up. I could just read what happened. I could just. Look, somebody recorded it. And what you say, nobody agrees on, but records agree with each other. And if we just take the Bible's context and then bounce it off of those very things, Jesus might must either be the bad guy or the devil.

Cristina: Okay, but if he's the Antichrist, that's really strange. The Christ is the Antichrist. What does that even mean?

Jack: There was never a Christ.

Cristina: There was never a Christ.

Jack: There's no such thing as an Antichrist. There is only Christ. The evil.

Cristina: Oh, nice.

Jack: The illusion. What do they say? The best trick the devil ever performed is convincing you he doesn't exist. We're talking. We're not talking about the Devil anymore. Is that quote of a wise man once told me, don't squander it. I'm wise man. Something like that. Stupid comment is the same idea here with Jesus.

Cristina: That is crazy. That's crazy.

Jack: The same way that Lucifer's greatest trick was convincing you he didn't exist according to the Bible. Also. Also what? A phrase made up to convince you that, well, you finding no proof of Lucifer is more proof of his existence.

Cristina: Just like God. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jack: And whatever you find about Jesus. No, Lucifer told you because the truth is in the book, regardless of what. So intentional. So intentional. No, everything is a lie. If somebody was there, they saw it for a sign, they recorded it. Lie. What's in the Bible is true. It's like. No, no, no. The Bible is people who wrote it right from the time, eyewitnesses. That's why it's true. Yeah, well, this guy was from the society that invented at that time, record keeping. And he says that didn't happen. So this guy who had no stake in it is lying, obviously. And that guy who has all the stake in it is totally telling the truth clearly, clearly, clearly, clearly Only makes sense.

Cristina: He's not profiting off of all of us lies. These lies. Oh, my gosh. Wow. Okay, so, okay, that's what he did in those three days.

Jack: That's what he did in three days. He went to h***, got Adam and Eve freed a bunch of Old Testament prisoners, showed up in Japan, continued his life.

Cristina: Wow.

Jack: The Bible tells us this.

Cristina: I thought. But in the. The story, I guess. Doesn't it end with him going to heaven or. No, in. Yeah, they see him float up.

Jack: Oh, biblically speaking, yes. He sees everybody and then he ascend.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Okay, but that sounds like a lie. And records tell us otherwise.

Cristina: Okay, that is part of the story.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we can follow him until he dies of old age in India. So, like, come on, please. There's records out there of this guy and literally traceable lines. You could just follow every step he took. Because he traveled primarily through places where people kept records. It. It was invented and they were just keeping records. And he was there.

Cristina: And he's not dead de. Because he can live forever. Like, that was when he really decided to not be in the picture of anyone's lives dead.

Jack: Because he was Biblically, when he transcends.

Cristina: No, when he's that guy in India.

Jack: When he's that guy in India and he dies, that just means he left the program. Oh, that's what death would be, is leaving the program for these individuals. That seems to be especially if you're hanging out with individuals from Elfame who are from outside the program.

Cristina: Then did they end up getting Adam and Eve after that? Because, like, what happens to Adam and Eve after he leaves the program?

Jack: Well, theoretically, the same way, like Yaldabaoth, that we assume that if he did get out, he can still have access to it because he himself is a program. So there's no way he'd fully 100% remove himself. It's impossible. So it's possible he can still use it, but he doesn't directly connect with us. It's possible that now, after the transcendent moment from India, he actually closer embodies the God that people were picturing and wrong about the whole way there, where he kind of. Yeah, he could tamper with it. As some sort of super elite AI, he's likely just capable of manipulating everything from the outside.

Cristina: that's pretty cool. I guess. So he probably still has Adam and Eve.

Jack: I don't. I don't know. I don't know. What would be the use if you could control everything.

Cristina: I Don't know.

Jack: But maybe they were necessary to. Or maybe not. Maybe they're not necessary to escape. Maybe they were just a byproduct of experimentation and allows for immense power. You don't need to take them out while you're here. They're useful.

Cristina: So many questions. Like, why would he need them? That's a good question though too. Like, did he make something else too?

Jack: Did he make something else?

Cristina: Because everyone seemed to. That's exactly what they did. They didn't just take them. Like even what's her name?

Jack: Lilith.

Cristina: Lilith did something with them. Like no one doesn't do something with them.

Jack: Yeah. Now as you're talking about, sounds almost like you're describing the unicorn, the alicorn. Like everybody's drawn to it.

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: And everybody has to use it when they get to it.

Cristina: Yeah. It's just like.

Jack: Like how could you not Literally couldn't control herself.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: She's drawn to it. Like. Oh no. Hypnotized by it.

Cristina: Yes. For science sakes.

Jack: For science sake.

Cristina: And if he's the same as them, driven with. From science. Maybe. Question mark. I don't know.

Jack: Interesting theory. People use. Not even use. Being around the philosopher son is weirdly really. Really, really, really. When we were talking about adrenochrome, we were talking about. Oh yeah, its effects and behaviors feel similar to the effects and things that could be done with alicorn teas and whatnot. But we never thought about. Because we've only recently come across the philosopher's stone and really deep dived into that. But we really haven't unpacked the fact that the philosopher's stone is more identical to alicorn than pure adrenochrome. It's a solidified version of adrenochrome. Quite a lot of people involved in the making. Tragically, it has immense kind of infinite power. And before even using the power, people are addicted to it.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Being in its presence the same way.

Cristina: They would with adrenochrome, except I guess for other necromancers. Like they didn't use their. They didn't use their stones. So it's possible Jesus didn't use his stones.

Jack: How do you know they didn't use their stones?

Cristina: You think Santa made some things?

Jack: He doesn't need to make things with it. That's just what we know. They were used for a function of them.

Cristina: It just seems like that's what they all try to do. I don't know. Maybe they don't all try to make life.

Jack: Yalda used it to Kill fairies?

Cristina: Yes. Wasn't he also making. What's that thing, that creature, the. The snake creature thing?

Jack: Naga.

Cristina: Naga. He wasn't using the stone for that.

Jack: No.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: He made an artificial Naga osteomorphous himself.

Cristina: Oh, okay, so he was not.

Jack: Yeah, the philosopher's stone were only used for murder in his case. Until he apparently got a hold of Adam and Eve, which I don't know when the h*** that happened.

Cristina: And what he did with that.

Jack: Yeah, we have no idea what he did with that.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But at least we know it happened and now we know what to be looking for, you know?

Cristina: Yes, he only. He didn't use it to make life. So Jesus probably didn't need it to make life.

Jack: Many other things you could do with it. Infinite power. Do whatever you want. Everybody likes to play God, so they make life. Yes, but infinite power, way more you can do.

Cristina: I'm just not creative enough. I don't know. What's the other possibilities besides birth and death? It looks like we've seen like what is Sansa or St. Nick doing with his stone?

Jack: And how many stones are there, man? We have Yaldas, we have Adam and Eve and the theoretical third stone of flesh that was probably used in the making of Jesus.

Cristina: I don't know if every necromancer has.

Jack: A stone and if every necromance. Yo, now. Oh my God, it gets dark because we gotta think like. Okay, all right, so definitely. Based on the information we have. Definitely, definitely. St. Nick's staff and St. Patrick's necklace or and Merlin's necklace are in fact philosopher stones, right? Totally. Okay. This guy who gives children gifts has a philosopher's stone. To clarify, the amount of death just casually on this guy is absurd. If you have a philosopher's stone, that's the oh, f*** part of it. Like, oh yeah, Santa, St. Nick. Oh, he's so generous. Oh, but not if you're mean. It's like, no, don't worry, he's. If he wanted to deal with you, it would be effortless because simply of how apathetic he has to be to it.

Cristina: It's part of the becoming a necromancer, I guess. Because I think you have. You have to become one to be able to make one. Anyway.

Jack: Oh yeah, you're right.

Cristina: So I think it's part of that journey of becoming.

Jack: To becoming a philosopher. Maybe the initiation is make a philosopher's stone.

Cristina: Yes. What did he kill for that? I don't know.

Jack: If the initiation is make a philosopher.

Cristina: My guess is he killed things in the shadow realm, but who knows? Only because we don't know anything about him and death. But we know he hangs out with fairies. Or not fairies, elves.

Jack: Dude, who the f*** is Hermes Trismeguess.

Cristina: Really, really, really supposed to tell me?

Jack: No, like, I don't know, man, there's something weird. I don't know what, there's something off about what you just told me and it made something click in my head and it's like, nah man, there's something weird here. Because this guy. Yeah, it kind of. When you really look at it, it's even in parts. You gotta find your teacher to get the rest of it. So yeah, part of the process is you start and he will teach you how to finish so that he can witness the finish of the product and say, now you're necromancer.

Cristina: Right?

Jack: Okay, great, bro. There's a process that means there must be. Holy s***. There must be global events we can track that would fit every single stone. Realistically, things that would seem like extinction. Size level events. We're talking about overpowered f****** stones. True extinction of entire millions of people in single blinks.

Cristina: See.

Jack: So yeah, it's absurd.

Cristina: That is. It has to be happening, right? It had to happen.

Jack: It has to be trackable. That's.

Cristina: It has to.

Jack: Whether it happened. If it did, it has to be trackable.

Cristina: Would his be the first story is Jesus is the first. I don't understand though. Who is first in this?

Jack: I have a f****** theory.

Cristina: What's the theory?

Jack: A pretty strong theory too. I would argue that one stone was made when a meteor f****** hit the planet.

Cristina: Hermes probably stumbled upon it or one of them, I guess.

Jack: No, I would argue the story of the meteor is bullshit and other things happened.

Cristina: Oh, you don't think the.

Jack: Okay, I would argue that there is a crater somewhere and that we call it a meteor impact. That's what I will say happened. Yeah, there's definitely a hole somewhere where something big and maybe a lot of people could fit. Yeah, I think that was just a stone. Yeah, because I think the flood was another one. I think the Bible tells us how.

Cristina: Adam and Eve were made.

Jack: No. Yes, but who cares where all the which how many stones there are. The Bible tells us literally how many stones there are based on world altering events.

Cristina: We don't think those were one of those world altering events were Adam and Eve.

Jack: They were the product of a world altering event. Yeah, but there is the alleged meteor. There is the flood. There was literally an instance when people were told cover your door with f****** blood. Or I'm coming for your firstborn. And then he did.

Cristina: Yes. Yes, he did. That's a beautiful story. Oh, my gosh.

Jack: Obviously there's nothing else that could be.

Cristina: That is creating a stone. Yeah.

Jack: That is creating a stone.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: All in one night. Huh? Huh?

Cristina: The whole city that got destroyed.

Jack: Oh, my God. Both cities. Sodom and Gomorrah. Oh, my God. Dude. Dude, that's the Red Eyed Village, isn't it?

Cristina: Red Eyed Village.

Jack: Yeah, dude, they're Alabastians.

Cristina: Oh, okay. What?

Jack: Dude, we really. Oh, dude. Oh. Context matters. So hard. Should just be once we know how to look for it.

Cristina: They're everywhere.

Jack: Everywhere now. Holy crap. Dude. Dude, those two places were like, done done. They were just wiped in that night through millions of people in the Bible. Blatantly, like. Yeah, them.

Cristina: Yes. So how many stones?

Jack: Oh, no, we're looking just based on the Bible alone and things outside of the Bible which are like three or four that we can put into frame. We're looking at like 30 stones.

Cristina: That's too many stones.

Jack: But there's a lot of weak stones.

Cristina: Mmm.

Jack: But there's also like colossal f******. Like whatever happened that night with the firstborn, that wasn't a big overpowered stone. Whatever the f*** happened in Sodom and Gomorrah, that's a f****** crazy stone. But those stones don't f****** with the flood. Do you see? We got. There's some tear.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Of like whack. And we know this because the stone of Adam is whack next to the stone of Eve. We know this. We know this for a fact. There's grades. And we assume that the third undefined stone of flesh is probably magnitudes greater.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Than Eve.

Cristina: Yeah. Yeah.

Jack: So there's more refined ways to make them better with less trouble. And there is more life that can go into them, which seems to work consistently. The further back in time we go. The further back in time we go, the more people who have to die because the process gets better and less life in order to make it equally strong. Like technology. Again, better.

Cristina: Yes. So how. Yeah.

Jack: To the point where we know elites now do everything in their power just to scare people. Are they making stones when they're desperate? They topple a tower. They topple a tower directly over a completely planned network of trains and subways, all of which could easily be used to extract anything you would need to from collapsing, let's say the World Trade Center.

Cristina: Okay. So.

Jack: So we can still see potential stones being made.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And if the process improves and any life loss that Day could potentially make something overpowered the way you would have needed millions in the past if the process hundreds of thousands of years refined. That's interesting.

Cristina: Interesting. Yeah. So that means there are. There are there.

Jack: Without the Bible, there must be an absurd amount.

Cristina: But that's so crazy because there's not that many. Necromancer. That's so weird. That's the rarest then.

Jack: Yeah. Then the problem is then there aren't many stones.

Cristina: We.

Jack: There are many necromancers. Not really. There's. Maybe.

Cristina: I'm guessing the newer stones don't. Aren't.

Jack: They're fake.

Cristina: Yeah, they're like.

Jack: We actually know about this. If we look at a good example that uses the concept of philosopher stones. Full metal alchemist.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: There's real stones and there's fake stones.

Cristina: There's. Wait. Yeah, there's fake stones everywhere. People just using fake stones. Yeah.

Jack: And the fake stones probably still have the side effects of adrenochrome.

Cristina: And there were still being people, I think being killed to make those fake stones. Just not the amount of people you need, which would be a city's worth of people.

Jack: So in any case, the tiers aren't on quality. The tears are. Because you need a massive event. You can't really improve how you do it. There's only one way to do it. Yeah, but there's like five guys who can and they already have theirs.

Cristina: What does Santa do? I mean, like, I don't understand this man that everyone loves, I guess. But then I guess they love Jesus too. And obviously, yeah, there's something horribly wrong there.

Jack: There's something awful going on there.

Cristina: So is there something.

Jack: Also St Patrick super loved as well also apparently.

Cristina: But we know he was involved with mad murder. I knew he went to island to murder.

Jack: Yeah, he just offed all the shadow people and all of the elf kiss.

Cristina: Them is not a question.

Jack: Yeah, neither is Santa's. To be real, dude. The whole earth overnight. You got an op. F****** stone, bro.

Cristina: But how did he like, at least we can figure how he made it. What lives he took to make it.

Jack: Oh, you're seeing St. Patrick use this? He made the stone in Ireland.

Cristina: Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying.

Jack: That doesn't make any sense.

Cristina: Death.

Jack: No, no, no, no, no. This already doesn't make sense. Because they went to him for help.

Cristina: To get rid of.

Jack: Yes. Meaning he already could. He didn't go there and figure it out.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: He had was the last resort. Meaning they know. Oh no. He could f****** do it. The Elysians themselves are like, we can't handle this. He could f****** do it. There were fairies there and they were like, that place. Send St. Patrick. He's got it.

Cristina: Okay. I don't know.

Jack: Yeah. If it wasn't that he went there under orders.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: If he just wandered, then did a bunch of crazy. Oh, my God, I got a stone. That's different. But they were like, go in and solve it for us, please.

Cristina: So he had to have had the stone. Where did it come from?

Jack: Where did it come from?

Cristina: He.

Jack: He did not struggle, bro. And he immediately just turned Jehovah into his. Effortlessly. In the Bible, like, come on.

Cristina: That must not have been the first island. He did that, too.

Jack: He must have a reputation for this, because they were like, he can do it.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Even if it's not on record. They knew, and the records say he knew.

Cristina: Yeah. But they didn't want to show that he just. What?

Jack: Wasn't relevant. It wasn't relevant to the story of what he was doing. Yeah, but they knew he knew, and he definitely knew he could. So How? How? What the f***?

Cristina: But still, it's not a question because, like, he killed mad. He killed mad people.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: You know, he's a killer on record.

Jack: Mad murder. Jesus on record. Mad murder.

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: Santa is an interesting one because he is very, very sneaky.

Cristina: Who's he murdering?

Jack: Yet he still has a stone and arguably one more. Overpowered in the same pattern.

Cristina: He does mad murder, too. And we just don't know about it because he's so secretive. Like, if he were killing off one person here and there every time he's delivering.

Jack: How would you know a stone like that? You can't. You need the sum.

Cristina: That's all these.

Jack: I'm telling you, these must be events of old.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And they don't need anymore. They can live forever. I think. I think that's really the case. I think these are just situations where we probably have actual events we can point at. And if we can look at it hard enough, maybe we can connect the vents to the people.

Cristina: Okay. Because. Yeah. Like, I don't know if anything happened around his time, but it has to. Something has had to happen.

Jack: The issue you're facing here is assuming that the time in which his narratives are told are, quote, his time, unquote.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: That's when he was okay being known.

Cristina: Yeah. Okay. Because he was probably around before that.

Jack: To be a necromancer. Chances are you did a lot of being unknown.

Cristina: Yes. All right. Okay.

Jack: Same goes for Patrick. Where he starts is Kind of hard handed, bro. You just, you just roll up and you're like, God, suck my d***, b****. And he's like, okay, all these people.

Cristina: Have stories before we got to meet them.

Jack: They got history with these individuals. They know them on a firsthand.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: In a way that we don't. And they were date to the point that these individuals were embarrassed about writing it themselves.

Cristina: Yeah, there's something going on. Whoa.

Jack: So definitely necromancers over everything else as of now and then Jesus over necromancer. Super mega, ultra Elysian necromancer with every stone. Or at least the great original stones.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: D***, bro.

Cristina: He's kind of Adam and Eve. That's crazy.

Jack: And the stone of dark and potentially the stone of flesh, if Yalda had that too, which we don't know. We actually have no idea if that's even real. That's a theoretical stone. But we know Adam and Eve. That's on text and no. Well that's a f****** lie. It's on text from other people way down the line them. And that moment isn't on text. It's passed down stories that are on text. And the stone of shadow is on text. That all that we have. We don't know about the third earth stone, but like the existence of Jesus in the process that led to everything else suggests this was necessary. So like, so there must be a fourth stone. Yeah, that might be the only stone that these people still have. No, they needed all three stones to make them. Dude, after the creation of Jesus, something happened. And maybe we're, we're thinking they're avoiding the place because of the visions of Jesus and maybe that has something to do with it. But now that we know somehow Yalda got a hold of the stones, something happened in that same time.

Cristina: Okay, okay, here's another idea. Okay, we're saying he went to Shadaram because they're using the words h*** to describe the place, but we have no idea because that's Jesus telling them where he went. What if Jesus did actually go home?

Jack: Go home where?

Cristina: He went to.

Jack: Iran?

Cristina: No, where the sea people hang out, where they keep the stone. Maybe that's where he got the stones.

Jack: That doesn't make any sense. And what was the point of them running away if he could so easily do that?

Cristina: Well, he took forever to get there. Like, I don't know.

Jack: No, that's not checking out. That, that doesn't hold. Something must have happened at that moment. And again, based on your logic, this does not make sense. He went to the Shadow Realm to quiet based. I guess that's. I don't even know if he said that. It's the narrative as he went to h***. I don't know if he told anybody he went to h***. Yeah, but he went to h***, got Adam and Eve and whatnot. This situation would suggest that Yalda got to the Alicians first. So even if Jesus didn't go to H***, he went and retrieved nothing. He would have needed to go to h*** to get Adam and Eve, because.

Cristina: We know that he took Adam and Eve.

Jack: The Bible tells us they went to h***.

Cristina: No, but why do we think. How did what's his name, Yadabel, take the stones?

Jack: We don't know that that's what we would have to look for. But the fact of the matter is, what we found is that Jesus went there and got Adam and Eve. Keep in mind the stories of the Bible are to be taken as true, but warped. So he went down there to free these good people and you. They were sent there unjustly. In reality, he went down there to free a bunch of, I guess, war criminals and steal some s***.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Now your suggestion would be that he went all the way to Elfame, not to Alfame, to Elysium. Yeah, but if he went to Elysium and he gets Adam and Eve, who the f*** are these criminals?

Cristina: Nephilims.

Jack: No, because what the f*** is Nephilim? How are you trapping a Nephilim in the shadow realm?

Cristina: In the shadow realm? No, if he went to.

Jack: Oh, he went.

Cristina: Wait, wait, why would they have.

Jack: Yeah, okay, so they. The. The Elysian. Yeah, you're totally right. So they're in Elysium and the Elysians.

Cristina: Then have Nephilim imprisoned because they plan to murder them. Because isn't that what they do?

Jack: No. No, they don't. I don't know why you think they do. They. It's illegal to make them.

Cristina: It's illegal. But don't they go hunting for them or just the people? Because they imprison someone that was important, that was making Nephilims. But they don't care about them.

Jack: He wasn't going around making a bunch of Nephilims. He broke a law.

Cristina: Which was making Nephilims.

Jack: Yeah, but also. Maybe if he shot somebody, he'd also still go to jail.

Cristina: But how do we know that Nephilims don't go to jail? I don't know.

Jack: For what? For being born, I guess. Racism could happen. Yes, I guess if it did happen.

Cristina: He wouldn't be there to save them.

Jack: Sure but also, they're Nephilim. How exactly are they being held?

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: They got both sides required to s*** on an elation. How exactly is like, then Jesus would not be a problem. By the time he arrives, you can just get a bunch of Nephilim together and just prison them. Jesus isn't a problem to you. It doesn't matter how strong he rolls up. You could just stop Nephilim, bro.

Cristina: But he's not the same.

Jack: No, it doesn't matter. Let's reiterate how f****** overpowered. Nephilim by default, is just being this hybrid f****** thing that could use all the tech and has access to all bangles and people, and they're favored by the people of Elfame. There's no way that you caught these people and Jesus is the guy who then frees them. There's no way. If you caught them, Jesus shows up, you're like, finally, I've been waiting for you. We set this trap for you. Now we got you.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: This is the only way that would play out. You caught a bunch. Enough. Get the out of here.

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: No, that wouldn't work out. That's nuts. But I'm concerned about whatever the Hermes is. Manny's definitely. That's crazy. Like, what the h*** did he. How did he come up with this? But Yalda did it first. I was thinking about this, like, earlier, maybe halfway through this episode when we were talking. I'm like. I didn't voice it, but I was thinking, like, is Hermes. Yalda's, like, human form. He's just trying to. Just disappears. And then this dude apparently helps Loi come up with a stone. That. Bro. Come on. There's something. I bet Hermes knows Yalda somehow. I bet that's how he learned.

Cristina: He learned it through.

Jack: Maybe not through Yalda, but he not taught, but learned from Yalda. Okay, maybe spying on him. Maybe Yalda got notes or something. I don't know.

Cristina: Well, notes is possible. No. No, it's not. I feel like there's a story where they might not. No, they don't trust writing or something.

Jack: Oh, s***. Yeah.

Cristina: I remember that Jesus invented writing so that they would.

Jack: So that they wouldn't rely on the technology. That way they could pass information secretly.

Cristina: Yeah, that's pretty crazy and interesting.

Jack: Which is funny, because it suggests that paper is the future technology, not the electronics. Right. Because it was a way to do better than the electronics.

Cristina: Yeah, the electronics is spying on us. Why depend on it?

Jack: Obviously, until people are spying on you and you're like, can't get away. So the base, weirdly enough. Weirdly enough, based on this, these texts and s***, they were just dealing with an a****** government who is spying on their cell phones.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: They just had Facebook. That's what's happening. And he was like, f*** Facebook. I'm gonna just notebook it. Cuz Facebook is in my phone and it's looking at everything. And I just keep getting ads on Amazon about some s*** I talked about. And like, I don't want that. So I'm gonna just send Mike a piece of paper instead and then I'll stop getting these f****** Amazon ads. That's Jesus summed up.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: He's like, f*** these ads writing. Yeah, it's a world of getting spammed by ads. It seems to have happened even back then. I mean, let's be real. Mary got pregnant with Jesus. The Elysians literally moved away to avoid Jesus ads. Yeah, they literally moved. They left the continent to get away from Jesus ads. Because you're getting them without ever subscribing to s***. Yes, Just ads for free here. F****** ads. You didn't even get anything new. There's no service, just ads. It's your life as it was before the ads. Plus f****** ads. Which I swear is gonna happen at some point. Everybody's gonna need neuralink to walk into a store.

Cristina: No.

Jack: Because it's not gonna open the doors for you because you're not a customer without a neural link. And then after everybody has neural link, you can't get away from the f****** ads. They're just gonna market s*** to you all day.

Cristina: You're gonna lose our mind. Yeah.

Jack: You're gonna be walking down the street and just an ad's gonna show up in front of your face and you're gonna want to get rid of it. But how?

Cristina: You gotta pay like an extra 15 bucks a month or whatever to just.

Jack: Have a normal f****** life. Anyways, that is where we are, guys.

Cristina: Happy Easter.

Jack: Yeah. Happy.

Cristina: Even though it's like late, but whatever.

Jack: So. Yeah, a week late. I mean, after a** so crazy.

Cristina: Well, after you listen to this. Save this episode for next year.

Jack: Yeah. And listen to it on Easter day. So you can keep in mind that Jesus not only went to h***, but he didn't like what Jehovah had done beforehand. And that if you go a couple of chapters before that, you'll find out that New Testament Jehovah is also on a pretty fu. With Jesus basis. So you can find a lot of people don't like Jesus in the Bible. You do. You love Jesus and you believe Jesus is great. But then the people who you also love, who aren't Jesus, think Jesus sucks. So. And Jesus also went to h*** and he told you to pretend to drink blood and he told you to pretend to eat flesh and he came back to life, technically making him either a vampire vampire or a zombie. And the blood fascination leans heavily towards vampire and the clarity of mind as well. So you're worshiping some sort of a demon.

Cristina: See.

Jack: Anyways, this has been Rambling Podcast. You guys can contact us, send us some messages to talk about this on our socials. That's that just convo pot on Tick Tock, Instagram, Facebook and more and other stuff. Yeah.

Cristina: Remember to subscribe and rate and read view the show.

Jack: Yes. And word of mouth tell everybody that Jesus is probably the devil.

Cristina: Yes, this has been the Rambling Podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening.

Jack: Bye.

Cristina: Jesus is the devil.

Jack: Sam.

Cristina: Good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Colazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by Great Thoughts, info, art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McAllister with social media managed by Amber Black.

Rambling 198: Dangerous Imaginary Friend

Why did Jackie imagine Hank? Who is Hank? Is this something Jackie and her family should be concerned about? The duo opens the case of Hank, the Imaginary Friend, and the investigations gets only stranger as the data I reviewed. With a theory that feels right!

Rambling 198: Dangerous Imaginary Friend
  • Episode Details

Topics Discussed:

  • Jackie, the 9 Year Old
  • Hank the British Imaginary Friend
  • Is Hank Real?
  • Hanks Increasingly Odd Behavior
  • Making Threats
  • Abandoned Car
  • Missing Person’s Report
  • Questionable Heart Attack
  • Mental Asylum
  • The Forest
  • Speculations

Our Links:

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod

Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod

Instagram - https://instagram.com/justconvopod


+Transcript

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And this is the show where we ground humanity's most absurdity, baffling ideas.

Cristina: Wow.

Jack: Yeah, that pause was monumental. So let's recap. Halloween's coming up, so we've been doing some weird. We've been.

Cristina: Yeah, some weird stories.

Jack: We've been digging. We've been digging deep. Deep in the. In the. In the digs.

Cristina: In the digs.

Jack: We. We've been digging deep in the digs.

Cristina: What's that supposed to mean?

Jack: We've been digging.

Cristina: We've been digging.

Jack: We've been digging holes. Yes, like the movie holes.

Cristina: Like the movie holes, except this one has the demons in it.

Jack: It built a character.

Cristina: What, this hole that we found has demons in it?

Jack: Well, we did. Yeah, we did find the hole with demons, but. Okay, so, yeah, there is a hole in some country, Russia or some s***. Like the border of Russia. I don't remember the story of Russian. Something and evil is in the hole. Allegedly. We don't really know.

Cristina: It's the Pepsi Cola.

Jack: Yeah, the Pepsi Cola wormhole. Yes, the Pepsi Cola wormhole is a scary place, but so is the Bio Ventura.

Cristina: The real life resident Evil lab.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Yeah, the Umbrella Corp.

Cristina: Umbrella Corp.

Jack: So, yeah, we. Look, the first story was just looking for some weird thing that happened in real life. The second story that we found was trying to type in exactly the same circumstances that would, in theory, describe the first story. But we just found the flip of it. Right. Originally we were like, what's a real scare? Not scary, but like, what's a real.

Cristina: Weird event that scientists can't explain? Or I guess they might have explained, but we'll never know their explanation.

Jack: Exactly. There wasn't a way to really tell.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But I'm like, okay, what's a real event that has some. Some spooky connotations to it? And then we found the. The. The lab thing, right. It's trying to replicate the whole thing. The whole thing was just. Hey, what's weird? What was it? It was. We. What's some. A scientific thing that has no explanation?

Cristina: Okay. Yes.

Jack: And I was like, okay, but that was by accident. I just. What's something scary we could look up and I found some science related. What was it? No, what's the scary science thing?

Cristina: Something scary that science can explain.

Jack: Yes. Well, I was just looking for something scary and I found Something sciency. I was just looking for something grounded, something that, you know, what's tangible. What do we have evidence for? And so we found the science experiment that was weird. And so then we looked into it or typed in the right. The same combination to try to find something else after we found that story. And instead, what we found was something unexplainable. They happened to be with scientists. Yes, but this one had, like, an alien or ghost vibe to it.

Cristina: Mm. And they weren't doing any research on the thing. I mean, their research was kind of like a normal human research of, like. What's that sound? Let me check it out.

Jack: Yeah, well, there wasn't research. It was more like investigating.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Now we do this, get conclusions, blah, blah, blah. So I'm like, all right, we got to do this again because, you know, now we're by accident, consistent. And it's October. Let's do it. So October. And I got one more. One more chance before Halloween to be spooky.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And I started digging.

Cristina: Spooky.

Jack: Well, I start digging, and I can't find anything related. It's sort of the same situation again because I type, okay, like, this time, we have a bunch of police reports and stuff. And I'm like, oh, that's. You know, that's kind of cool. That's pretty dope, because they weren't police reports for the first thing. There was just a bunch of people abandon the s***. And then the second one actually had police reports. That's kind of cool.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So I'm like, is there something else that, like, there's actual police reports for that's creepy and unexplainable? And I go digging and digging and digging, and I actually do find something quite interesting. The question is, is it spooky? So this is potentially hit and miss, but we're gonna find out.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Okay, so let's dive into the story of Jackie. Jackie is a little girl.

Cristina: How little? Or I guess how young?

Jack: Very.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: She's from Oklahoma. She's like eight or nine.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: She's from Oklahoma. And Jackie has an imaginary friend.

Cristina: That's, like, the first thing I was thinking.

Jack: I said little girl, and you just thought, imaginary friend.

Cristina: Yeah. Okay, continue.

Jack: It's just. Okay, based on me saying imaginary friend, what do you think is gonna happen?

Cristina: I don't know. Because, like, she talks to the friend, and the friend tells her to. I don't know. It's always like, some kind of, like, evil ghost thing. But we'll see.

Jack: We'll see. Okay, so Jackie's Grandmother Stephanie stated that she often spent time playing with her imaginary friend and her dolls.

Cristina: Okay. Okay.

Jack: Basic little girl s***.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Imaginary friends, dolls checks out.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So when asked to describe her imaginary friend, she claimed it was an older man named Hank.

Cristina: Always. Why is it always some creepy dude? What is with these creepy dudes hanging out with little kids? Imaginary creepy dudes. It's always a dude ghost. I never hear about a woman ghost hanging out with kids.

Jack: I don't know either. But also, pedos are, like, a thing and quite. This is what. This is the kind of s*** that makes you be like, well, it's probably real. Like, it checks out according to, like, the percentage of creeps that are out there. Yeah. So anyways, Jackie would tell her parents about, like, stories of the. The. Of Hank. Hank would tell Jackie stories, and Jackie would excitedly tell her parents stories. So she would tell. He would tell her about, like, how he used to work at a lighthouse.

Cristina: That's cool.

Jack: He used to work on a lighthouse off the coast of England. Jackie's from Oklahoma, so it's interesting that there's this random guy, and so she, you know, he tells her about his life and. Because his imaginary friend. Right. So he tells about his life, his hobbies, just things. Stuff.

Cristina: Nothing weird that he's telling her, or at least not yet.

Jack: No. Yeah, I suppose so. As a little girl playing with her dolls, I find it strange that it's not just weird that he's a grown man. That's weird. But it's weirder that he's a grown man playing with dolls that's already kind.

Cristina: Of like, okay, he's playing with her. Like, she. It's her playing with dolls with him. You're saying, like, they're playing together?

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: With the dolls?

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Okay. Okay. I didn't know that. Okay.

Jack: That's weird. It's not that she's playing with him and playing with her dolls. She's playing with him and her dolls.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Simultaneously, he's a grown imaginary friend who likes to play with dolls, and he's a dude. An older dude.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Kind of weird. Checks out the whole, you know, I'm grooming your child to do things to it, kind of. But it's imaginary, so what the h*** can anybody do? There's not a problem there. Just a crazy little girl or a normal little girl with imaginary friends.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So one day, Hank approaches Jackie screaming and crying and saying he'd seen something horrible happen. What? Imaginary stuff, you know?

Cristina: Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Jack: So he says he saw somebody fall and get hurt outside Simple.

Cristina: Well, she checks it out.

Jack: Well, she doesn't check it out. She tells her mother and her father and although they didn't believe her, so she, she, they, you know, in order to humor her, they check it out. They go check it out and what they find is an actual kid had broken his leg outside somewhere. Yeah, it was like a block away.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: She probably heard it or something. You know, typical. She was probably because she was playing outside moments before. She wasn't down the block, but maybe she saw something.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And she tells her parents or whatever. M and I think actually she was in her backyard and this happened a block away, but she probably heard it happen. And you know, as an intelligent child, quick fact. Children with high IQs tend to be the ones who have imaginary friends.

Cristina: Really.

Jack: It is their mind processing information highly, like very fast and it has to compose and composite things. And a lot of the time it superimposes imagery that allows them to process. And if the child is thinking at an extremely adult level, they might manifest an adult that can think for them in that instant psychology fact. Anyways, this child must have heard the kid fall and start crying.

Cristina: Okay, so nothing weird yet.

Jack: Nothing weird to come in from the backyard and tell her parents. And then her parents then went to investigate and found the kid. They're aware that her child is highly intelligent. They've been told things to expect of her child and also to not worry about the imaginary friend because of this very circumstance. Highly normal. It is an extremely intelligent child. Okay, so this is kind of expected. And a child with high intellect is also a child with high intuition. You can have very small pieces of information and piece together quite vivid images that are accurate.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Her predictability. Not her predictability, but her ability to predict. Astounding. Because of high intellect, imaginary friend because of high intellect and intuition. Because of high intellect, the kid is essentially psychic. Because of high intellect, she could hear something and piece it together, basically what happened here. So obviously her parents thought nothing of it.

Cristina: Okay. Yeah, I guess there's nothing suspicious there.

Jack: No, nothing at all. Why do you keep saying yet this what you keep saying yet?

Cristina: Cuz something's gonna happen.

Jack: Do you believe something's gonna happen?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Okay. Anyways, so. So the child's parents were contacted, the situation was dealt with, blah, blah, blah. And again her parents just brushed it off as something expected something normal. And sometime later, Hank began acting strange again, but in a weirder way. You know, he started think of like nurses from Silent Hill. How they kind of like twitchy and, like, real uncomfortable looking.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So, yeah, doing that and like, screeching and like, at random, he would do this. Almost like he was glitching. But this. This is her describing this to her parents. She wouldn't use the word glitching, but, you know, she would try to explain the motions and how he would just start screaming crap. And then he'd just go back to normal.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And like, it never happened.

Cristina: Like, she tried to get an answer from him and he couldn't explain it.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, he would. Like it never happened to him. Like. Oh, I don't. I don't know what you're talking about.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Yeah. Again, imaginary friend. So whatever weird things are gonna happen. But as a result of this, she began to have a lot of night terrors, consistently night after night after night after night after telling her parents about this. So it became really consistent that she would have these. And she had to go into a child therapist. She started seeing a child therapist consistently because of this. It was becoming intrusive. She would not sleep any night. All the nights were interrupted. All the nights, all the nights. All the nights, all the time.

Cristina: Because she was dreaming about or having nightmares about Frank.

Jack: Yeah, just these weird motions. Screaming. Some of the dreams that she described just kind of looked like a horror scene is basically all black and just him there, nothing else. And him, like, twitching in that manner and screaming in that manner with nothing else but him being the focal point.

Cristina: Oh, my gosh. Okay.

Jack: Yeah. It's kind of horrible because it's unclear whether she. She placed herself in the world of the dreams that she was having. Like, she was physically there or she was just watching nothing but him. Like, is she seeing herself third person, or is she seeing first person so all she sees is him? That was unclear, but it was described as essentially a dark void with nothing but his presence. How she saw him. That made her scared.

Cristina: Yeah. Were they trying to now, like, get her to stop having an imaginary friend? Is that even possible?

Jack: Yes. They tried medication in small doses because she was a child and that wasn't really working. But they immediately stopped that because of. It was kind of numbing her out, but she would still have all the problems. So you'd like drugging your child and not even solving the problem, which is a huge issue I have with giving children medication. Anyways. Your kid has adhd. Maybe that's just your child has a lot of energy and maybe. Don't drug your child.

Cristina: Don't punish your child for energy.

Jack: Don't punish your child for Being a child.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Oh, my child can't focus. Well, they're f****** kid, you know. But yeah. So consistently her parents would chalk it off to emotional stress. The therapist explained that this stuff is expected. You know, her mind has to process even the darker things of life, and as she gets older, she's going to understand those things more. But maybe not consciously, maybe this is all happening subconsciously and manifesting as these twisted images that she's getting from Hank.

Cristina: Okay, so everything's normal so far.

Jack: It's normal. It's very on brand for a intelligent child. Minus the now. This is. According to the doctors, it's totally fine. But what's weird for Jackie particularly is that she's consistently trying to explain. He's always more aggressive than he was before. So the twitching is more vicious, the screaming is more vicious, and he's more confrontational. Consistent. Like he's more aggressive in his words, have a stronger tone and he sounds like he's talking down to her more frequently. That kind of stuff.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: But. But again, totally normal, according to the doctors, really.

Cristina: What.

Jack: What would be abnormal about an imaginary friend being weird? Unless you're thinking something horrible, which you are.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: It wouldn't be strange.

Cristina: It's gotta still be weird for the parents. Even if they're being told it's normal, it's still weird.

Jack: Why would it be weird? As opposed to, oh, our kid.

Cristina: But their kids having nightmares and it's. She's telling you her imaginary friends going wild again.

Jack: Just because you're expecting something odd to happen is that you're in the state of mind. Think about how often a little kid leaves his bed and goes and jumps in bed with their parents. And you're like, oh, how cute. But that kid had a nightmare. Some kids do that every night. That's not weird. You're just expecting something weird to happen. So you see it weird. But it's extremely. It's the most common thing.

Cristina: Nightmares, though, if she's saying that she's.

Jack: Experiencing this, well, it's an imaginary friend, which is also incredibly common. It's like a kid saying there's a monster under the bed every night. Again, you're expecting something weird, so you're seeing it as something weird. But what part of this have you never heard before? All of it is extremely common. Kids see crazy s***, though. There's monster, daddy, there's a monster under my bed. And that. That every night has to come and be like, there's not a monster under the bed. No, I saw it. Okay, I'll look under. Or it's in the closet. I'll in the closet. This is normal. This is all normal. You're expecting spooky, so you're thinking about it as weird. Why? Well, it's so weird that she. It's totally normal. There's actually nothing strange about this, about imaginary friends.

Cristina: That glitch out. That's totally normal.

Jack: You gotta understand that none of what's being described is weird in the context that a child's mind is making it up. So I'm using the word glitching out.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: I could say spasming. Regardless of which word I use, the descriptions of the child are childlike and what. The events that are happening are extremely normal, as explained by therapists who experience it all the time.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Professionals who experience this all the time are saying, this is normal. This is absolutely normal.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Which means it's so common.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: That they're not like, your child's f***** up.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Do you see?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: You're expecting something weird, so you're seeing it weird because you're looking for it. But the people who are trained to spot how normal it is are like, well, this on paper is some s*** I've seen a thousand times.

Cristina: Okay. I have not seen this a thousand times, but okay.

Jack: Yeah. But you're expecting to see something weird, so you're already looking for it. You're like, which part of this is the one that I'm supposed to pay attention to? Don't worry about it.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: The doctor said it's fine. You just follow the expert.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Not the little girl. You focus in too hard on little girl's opinions. Little girl. Why are you putting trust in her? Even her parents are like, f*** this child. She's just a f****** kid.

Cristina: That's awful. I don't know.

Jack: But, like, in most cases, what you gonna do? Humor your child's crazy s***? And then they turn out to be a real nutcase because you made them think this is absolute. Absolutely. Okay. Instead of going out of it. That is where you see you'd messed up your child in this instant. Because you're like, well, this is so weird. My child. Oh, my God. But no, it's not. It's totally normal. It's absolutely normal. It's absolutely normal. Until 8-16-20. I mean, 2001.

Cristina: Okay?

Jack: In August 16, 2001, it stopped being normal.

Cristina: How so?

Jack: Well, Jackie calls Stephanie, which is her grandma, claiming Hank said he would hurt her parents.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Now it stopped being normal. Now, if she were to tell the doctor that the doctor would Be like, now we've got a problem. Up until that point, it was totally normal. You were looking for it. Now you got some s*** that is like, is this kid gonna f****** hurt her parents?

Cristina: Is she?

Jack: Well, I don't know. What do you think? So, okay, Stephanie asked to speak to Jackie's parents, and they were fine, obviously, because this f****** kid's crazy, okay? And also, it's a f****** nine year old. Like, what the h*** are you gonna do to hurt your parents if they're paying attention, you gotta catch them while they're sleeping or something if you're crazy like that.

Cristina: Is that what she does? No. Continue the story. Yes. Okay. Okay. So they talked. She talks to the parents. Parents are fine.

Jack: Yes, they're. The parents are perfectly fine. And, you know, nothing. Nothing out of the ordinary. It's just like your kids spazzing out of the nightmares of guy weariness or whatever. She just needs to escape the situation. So Stephanie has to have Jackie for the night, you know, to ease the parents worry. To ease Jackie's worries. And interestingly enough, Jackie said that anytime she was with her grandma, Hank wasn't there. Hank tends to be at home. At her. At Jackie's home, not at her grandma's house.

Cristina: Okay. Because if this was a ghost story, he's just haunting the house she's living in.

Jack: Yeah, yeah. If this is a ghost story, it's haunting the house is living in. And so Jackie goes and stays with her granny at her granny's house, you know?

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So the next morning, it gets weirder.

Cristina: I don't know what happens.

Jack: The next morning, the police knock on Stephanie's door.

Cristina: Okay, about the parents.

Jack: Right, about the parents. So, okay, this is what happens. The parents car is found parked on the highway, but the parents aren't there. And they did a search to find who the car belongs to, but the parents were also not home. But the car was there. Didn't look like anything weird happened. It kind of looked like they pulled.

Cristina: Up, they just abandoned their car, parked.

Jack: And just abandoned the car. Now the car's abandoned, but they find out that, you know, it belongs to the parents or whatever.

Cristina: How long was it abandoned for? Like, when did someone realize that it was, like, suspicious, or the next morning. Next morning. Oh, okay. And it took them that quickly to, like, look it up of, okay, the parents live there. And then the grandpa, like, did they contact a bunch of people?

Jack: Probably not the next morning. That was just a couple of hours. The girl just stayed overnight.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Which means the car was just parked on the Highway.

Cristina: And then they went to the grandma to look for the parents.

Jack: Well, not really. They probably went to the parent looking for the parents at the parents house. They probably ran the plates and they're like, somebody just parked out here.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Chances are that car had a ticket.

Cristina: On it and stolen or something.

Jack: That was probably the initial realization. But the car was just parked there. There was no broken windows or anything. And so they didn't find the parents at the place. But you know, looking for contacts and whatever, they end up finding the grandma. And they're like, okay, yeah, weird, but whatever. And the car is just there. So at this point, the grandma. Stephanie and Jackie have not heard from the parents since the previous night. So they don't actually know why they would park and abandon the car. They just know that they parked and abandoned the car. But they did in fact confirm, yes, that is the car.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Very important. Which was the goal of the police being like, does this belong to whoever?

Cristina: Yeah. And they found out. Yes.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the car gets. Because it's on the highway, and the car. They're told that the car's been towed. The car. This is important for you to like, get in contact with these people and tell them. And they. They're like, yeah, whatever.

Cristina: They like, yeah, whatever. Yeah.

Jack: Like, they're gonna go and she's gonna contact them. Eventually she gets in contact with them. She's gonna be like, hey, your car.

Cristina: How long does it take for people to feel like, okay, maybe they're missing or something?

Jack: Or that's like a day, like a week.

Cristina: But she's not worried.

Jack: I mean, the car was just found parked on the highway, so she's very worried. It doesn't. Nothing told us she's worried. But I Like, we can reasonably assume you find a parked car on the highway unless she's dead on the inside. She's probably like, well, that's strange. I should probably be worried. It'd be crazy if the cops knock on the door in the morning and they're like, hey, this car was probably here overnight, but. And also, we didn't find the people in the car. Does this car belong to somebody who you know? Yeah, it's a car of my daughter. Okay. Yeah, it was abandoned.

Cristina: Nothing suspicious about the car.

Jack: It was abandoned in the highway. And besides that, Stephanie is like, oh, that's cool. And then the cops leave, and then she never again gives it a second thought. She's just like, what is. Stupid parents my granddaughter has that they would just park on the highway and walk away don't they know that's what parkings are made for? Not the emergency lane. You know, she's over here cooking, like, stupid child of mine. I taught them how to park. Why are they stopping on the highway? No, of course she's like, what the.

Cristina: F*** do you know which one is her child?

Jack: Her child is the girl.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: The. The mother.

Cristina: Mother. So she tries to contact her.

Jack: The mother of the daughter. Cc. Yeah, she tries to contact her. That does not work out. This is 2001. Presumably one of them had a cell phone. Probably not. It was probably house phone. And see, here's the problem. This is also why it's, like, less concerning, because there's no. There's not like, any. You can't immediately get in contact with anybody.

Cristina: Yeah. So it's going to be a while for her to be like, this is really dangerous. Or not dangerous, suspicious.

Jack: Like something horrible. No, it's already. Again, there's a car parked on the emergency lane in the highway, and there's nobody in the car. And we cannot seem to find the people whose car it is at home. Have you seen them? Nah, nah, it's already suspicious.

Cristina: Do they know, like, maybe the car. There was something wrong with the car, like it couldn't drive.

Jack: They don't. Which is actually an assumption that was made. Perhaps the cut. That's why they went to the house to find out.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Perhaps there was something wrong with the car that prevented the car from moving. They didn't have the car keys, so there was no way to just turn on the car and drive it away. The car was towed.

Cristina: Interesting.

Jack: Yes. But I'm assuming after the car was towed is when it's like, okay, we gotta contact the people whose car it is to then get them to come and get the car. But, oh, we can't find them.

Cristina: We can't find them.

Jack: So we need to do everything in our power to find them. Because we need our money.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: We gonna get gangster on these mofos. They better give us our guap.

Cristina: That's all they care about.

Jack: Care about. So they show up to the house, and the pope was like, there's nobody here. They probably knock the door down, get, boom, search the house for the money or whatever. Or whatever cops do, you know?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And then they dip. Find the money, and they're like, they're hiding. They don't want to pay. We're gonna find them by any means necessary.

Cristina: So they go to the grandma for the money.

Jack: So they go to the grandma, they beat that door down. Too. And they strong armed grandma. It's like, we know you're hiding them. We know. She's like, I've not seen them. You're lying. They tortured her for weeks trying to find out. You will tell us. They waterboarded her every night.

Cristina: But, like, when they dropped her off, the grandma didn't think anything weird was going on. Like, the parents seemed perfectly fine.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, the parents didn't seem. I mean, none of these reports tell me that, but like, the fact that nothing was mentioned. Mm, probably it was just like a normal day.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Like their behavior wasn't strange enough that she would say, oh, they were being weird beforehand.

Cristina: Yeah, there's something going on. But okay, yeah, like, clearly I thought.

Jack: Something would happen because they were being so strange. No, that never happened. They were perfectly fine. Fine. But it got weird because although they didn't get in contact with them the first couple of hours, questions start to rise after the first day and they're still not around. And then the second day and they're still not around.

Cristina: Has the grandma told anyone about what the daughter had said?

Jack: No, she. The grandma actually completely forgot that the daughter even said this. It's totally escaped her that the reason this little girl was staying at her house in the first place is because she. Because you gotta understand, this girl has been complaining about this for a long time. So anything and everything that she says relative to Hank, it just goes tuned out to some degree.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Because, you know, they've dealt with it for a while.

Cristina: Yeah. And how's the girl behaving during this time while her parents are missing?

Jack: She doesn't know that her parents are missing.

Cristina: Oh, she doesn't.

Jack: She's not told a single thing. Why would you just freak this girl out? Especially if you're just gonna fight. What if you just find her parents and they're perfectly fine? They were just out there f****** somewhere. They went to a hotel. The f***? And you're gonna be like, oh, my God, your parents are missing? No, just, you know, she's protecting a little girl. The girl doesn't know anything, but. So it was totally forgotten. But eventually, after the second day, without hearing from the parents, the police determine, you know, this is. This is. Okay, now this is problematic. This is a missing person's case at this point.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Yeah. So they're like, okay, we definitely need to organize a search party. We know where the car was. Let's start sending people out. It's, you know, if they have been kidnapped or if they're hurt, we Gotta get to them before like it's a wrap. So they send the search party and you know, as things go, they were searching the forest around the highway that the car was found.

Cristina: There's a forest around the highway.

Jack: Well, most highways cut through a forest.

Cristina: Oh that's. That sucks. But like the search sucks because it's gonna be hard to find them if they are in there.

Jack: I mean anytime somebody is missing around the highway, there's. You gotta search the forest next to the highway. That's never not been the case.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And like I think the point of a highway is that it cuts through the forest so that you can get to the next location. So I think every highway, unless you live in California through a forest. It's through a forest. Yeah. There might be nothing more normal.

Cristina: Yes. It just sucks as just like to search through though.

Jack: But no, because if this is the case and every highway is surrounded by a forest, you've already trained in searching every forest or not every forest, but you trained in searching through a forest. It's probably easier than searching through a city where there's alleys and buildings with multiple floors that somebody could be missing in.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: You just got complicated one dimension to look. It's a plane. You just walk through the plane. And that's why it's way easier. You know, it's the whole shallow grave scenario. It's like what's in the woods. It's kind of easy to stumble upon.

Cristina: You probably have search dogs too. That makes it even more easier.

Jack: Way easier. This like there's nothing easier than searching the woods.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Hard would be somebody went missing in the city. Well there's, I guess there's 5 million people in the city. How the f*** are you gonna find it?

Cristina: Could.

Jack: They could be walking by us and we might mess up.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: You know, the woods, ideal location for somebody to go missing. If you're gonna find them. The woods is where you want them to be.

Cristina: Alright.

Jack: And so after the two days they go and they organize a search party and start searching the woods. Now two days of search go by without finding anything.

Cristina: And the girl still doesn't know.

Jack: The girl still doesn't know. She's just staying with her grandma. But at this point the girl hasn't even talked to her parents on the phone or anything.

Cristina: So she's probably getting suspicious that something's.

Jack: Wrong or it's like a nine year old girl. Why would she get suspicious of anything?

Cristina: I don't know. Does that she have school or something to go to or she's Too young for that. You think?

Jack: This child is like, oh, my God, I should. She's like. She's remembering school.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: This is like a vacation. Yeah. This child's like, man, I need to. I need to go to school. It's important. My education comes first. What's happening?

Cristina: I miss my friends, maybe. I don't know.

Jack: This kid doesn't give a bro.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But two days into the search and they. They find Jonathan, Jackie's father.

Cristina: Okay. Oh, Jonathan. That's good.

Jack: Yes. Yes. And he's actually found dead.

Cristina: Oh, no.

Jack: Yeah, he's. He's. His body is found resting against a tree deep in the forest. It's called a parallel forest, by the way. So deep in parallel forest, he. His body's found. Parallel forest is off. I don't know the name of the highway, but it's off the highway. And this is in Oklahoma. And so his body's just found, like, sitting against a tree.

Cristina: Sitting against the tree?

Jack: Yeah, sitting against the tree. And the coroner's report says that it was just a heart attack.

Cristina: Really?

Jack: Yeah. Like, he got out of the car, traveled the woods, started to have a heart attack, leaned against a tree to kind of like, brace himself, and died there.

Cristina: What? That's pretty insane.

Jack: Yeah. That's f****** crazy, right?

Cristina: Whoa.

Jack: It's like, whoa, dude, you were having a bad day.

Cristina: And then they find the lady?

Jack: They did not immediately. So it was actually.

Cristina: How many search days is this? So far?

Jack: It's been two days of searching without. So it was two days missing?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Then two days of searching. It's been four days since they went. Since Jackie stayed with her grandma when they find her father. Okay, so four days between the day she goes to her grandma's and the day they find her father.

Cristina: Okay. Do they know how long he's been dead?

Jack: That is not established. I do not know.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: It was probably in. Somewhere in there, and I totally skimmed, so I don't know. The amount of time that comes by nex is three days before her mother is then found.

Cristina: What's her mom doing?

Jack: It's less about what her mom is doing, more about how weird it is what happened. So her mom is found in Modoc National Forest.

Cristina: Is that like super far from the forest that they're in?

Jack: Well, they're in Oklahoma and this forest is in California. What? That's weird.

Cristina: That's weird. What? What? Okay.

Jack: Yes. Also, she's found dead, and she's found sitting against a tree in the woods.

Cristina: From a heart attack.

Jack: The coroner's report claimed it Was a heart attack?

Cristina: No, she got a heart attack after walking from Oklahoma Street.

Jack: There's no way she could have walked that.

Cristina: That's not a four day walk or how long has it been at this point?

Jack: It's seven days. But that's not a seven day walk. You'd never make. You'd die long before then.

Cristina: Okay, but they think that's suspicious though, right?

Jack: She could have taken a ride there and died.

Cristina: I guess. That is so cr.

Jack: Like nobody's like, she walked there and died? No, again, only if you're expecting it to be weird will you conclude that these things are weird. Otherwise she just f****** left and had. Now again, the cops aren't connecting these dots. They're just like cops elsewhere found her. They're not like aware that again, cops in California found there. They're not like, hey man, does this woman over here have family that died elsewhere give a s***. They're just like a dead woman. So yeah, that's. But us observing it is like, whoa.

Cristina: Whoa, what does the grandma think of all this?

Jack: I know the grandma's tripping out, bro. She's like, what the. Because that's her daughter.

Cristina: Her daughter doesn't really believe her daughter ran away and then died.

Jack: Yeah, she didn't think her daughter parked the car, hitchhiked. The California died of a heart attack in the woods. Like, what party were they? Dude, that's some crazy drugs her and her husband were on. D***. I'm sure that probably crossed your mind though, like, what kind of crazy drugs were these crazy kids doing? Bath salts.

Cristina: Oh, maybe.

Jack: Man. Were bath salts even around in 2001? I don't think so. Right?

Cristina: No, it was just happening like Beth's.

Jack: Yeah, bath salts is like 2006. Maybe they had the first batch of bath salts. Yeah, they had like some super dysfunctional no kinks worked out.

Cristina: Oh my gosh.

Jack: Yeah, but that's nuts, bro.

Cristina: That is nuts. That's just like a mystery.

Jack: Yes, yes, it is. That is. That is precisely what it is.

Cristina: The cops don't do any more work. That's the end of their jobs.

Jack: I mean, what the are they supposed to. What do they think?

Cristina: The house, the car, why?

Jack: It's a heart attack. What are they supposed to do? The coroner said a heart attack. It's provably a heart attack. They're gonna be like, it was murder and someh. They caused the heart attack.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Like, no, they're just like, it was a heart attack. There's nothing beyond that point that they could do. The crazy cop that's like Dr. Housing it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: He's like, this is a setup. I can feel it. I know the coroner's report says this, but in my gut, for whatever reason, I'm extra invested in this one random case, and I want to find out what really happened to this woman who was in the woods and died of a heart attack.

Cristina: So then what happens with the grandma? What does she do?

Jack: Panic? Her daughter died?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: It's not like she's thinking clearly anymore. Her daughter died. She's just like, my daughter died of a heart attack. She probably forgot. She's not connecting dots. Her daughter died.

Cristina: Okay. I guess, yeah.

Jack: Your daughter dies, your next thought is, man, this little girl has something to it. Or I gotta investigate the murder of my daughter, who they've told me had.

Cristina: A heart attack like, in some other faraway place, like, I don't know. You don't think she, like, was kidnapped? No.

Jack: You just gotta think, my. What the f***?

Cristina: She had a heart attack in the middle of nowhere.

Jack: Right? Right. So the logic here is she got kidnapped and then had a heart attack and they dropped her in the woods. That's the logic you're expecting your grandma to have? Maybe this little girl's not safe with that grandma. If that's where that lady's mind goes, immediately like, well, the cop said the thing, but I know more has happened, but, like, there's no evidence that more has happened. The pros told you, yeah, it was a heart attack.

Cristina: It was a heart attack, but she ended up so far away.

Jack: That's a f****** nut. But again, her daughter died. She's not over here, like, considering the distance, she's like, oh, my God, what a tragedy.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like, maybe afterwards, after the waters f****** calm down or whatever.

Cristina: Does she then tell her granddaughter, or is she living a lie now?

Jack: No, she doesn't tell her, Grant. I'm sure eventually she tells your granddaughter.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: But immediately, it doesn't make sense. You gotta kind of strategize what to do with life. Your daughter's dead. You're stuck with your granddaughter. Your next move isn't, your mom is dead.

Cristina: Mm. No.

Jack: You got like, okay, let me damage control first.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: I gotta, like, collect my emotions and I gotta, like, I guess I've adopted my granddaughter. Do you know the least of your concerns are, let me go tell my granddaughter her mom Is that. Then control her. I still don't know what I'm doing with this girl, but now I gotta worry about her emotions and, like, her mental stability, and she was already on edge.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: You know, like you're not gonna say s***. You're gonna think about the well being of the child.

Cristina: Yeah. While you're having a meltdown inside.

Jack: That is what parents do. That is what grandparents, that's what adults are supposed to do. You suck it the f*** up. You keep your head down and you problem solve. Because it's not about you or your emotions. It's about that other person you're trying to raise into a functional adult. There's no way her immediate reaction is, oh, my God, your parents are dead, Bo. Your mom is dead. Your dad's dead. Everybody around you is dying. Oh, my God. You're gonna die too one day. Like, that's awesome.

Cristina: I'm gonna die.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: What.

Jack: What's that from? I remember that. That was like scary movie or some, right?

Cristina: Probably, I think. Sounds like a scary movie thing.

Jack: Yeah. Your mom is dead. Your dad's dead. I'm gonna die too one day. Oh, my God, you're gonna die. It's just.

Cristina: Yes. I feel like that is one of those movies.

Jack: Yeah, it is, right?

Cristina: I can't making fun of that movie with the seven Days to Die scenario. You know, the one that if you watch the tape.

Jack: No, but I don't think it was out. I know exactly who the guy is saying it is.

Cristina: A kid who watched the tape.

Jack: I don't remember that part. I know the guy. He's. Who's saying it is the guy who was the brother of Char. Or not the brother, but whoever the h*** was Charlie Sheen's co star when he was the main character in Scary Movie. It was that one. It was that scary movie with Charlie Sheen and some other dude. Yes, I remember that much. Maybe that's the one with the ring.

Cristina: Yeah. Yeah. I'm pretty sure they own the farmhouse. That also. With the.

Jack: With the hole.

Cristina: Yeah, whatever. Yeah. Somehow leads all. All the stories are connected. I don't know.

Jack: Yeah. But the grandma is definitely not doing that to the girl. No, that's definitely not happening. That feels like the wrong move when everybody. When it's. That feels like the worst move when it's true, you know, it feels like a good troll, but it doesn't. It doesn't feel like too tasteful when it's real. It feels like bad timing to just freak out like that. But now she just sucked it up and like a good old lady, she's like, I've adopted this child. Now we need to go to her home and get clothing and crap to stay permanently. I suppose.

Cristina: Yeah. Get all the stuff.

Jack: Get Stuff? Yeah. No, I mean, not all the stuff. Just clothes and like, toothbrushes and junk like that, you know. So she goes to do all that stuff. Collects clothing and crap. But while there, the little girl says, Hank's there too. And Hank, now, she hasn't told this little girl s***. Hank tells a little girl, and the little girl tells her grandma that he said he killed her parents.

Cristina: No.

Jack: The chills that this lady must have f****** felt at that moment must be indescribable. She hasn't said anything yet. And this little girl just said Hank said he hurt my parents. Not just hurt. He killed them.

Cristina: He killed them.

Jack: He killed him. Those are words he told her. These are the words she told. She used the words killed. That is in the report. That is what said.

Cristina: What does the grandma do then? Like, what does she think? Does she believe her now? Or does she think her child's not. Child's granddaughter's insane.

Jack: Well, she's horrified by the way there's. This was on the news. This isn't just a bunch of police reports. This was reported on the news because the. The granny. Eventually. I'll let you know. So this was informed to the police about what happened, that the little girl said this.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And Stephanie, then. This is where this, like, spins the f*** out. Stephanie explains to the police. Let me take a step back. Stephanie gets institutionalized shortly after this. And the girl gets put into a foster home.

Cristina: What?

Jack: After Stephanie went to the house to collect the things. And the little girl, Jackie tells Stephanie this. She gets institutionalized. Stephanie gets institutionalized. Because Stephanie goes to the police. And Stephanie tells the police what the little girl said, but she proceeds to give some extra details that we did not know until this point. She says that a long, long time ago, when her husband was alive, she cheated on her husband with a guy named Hank.

Cristina: Stop lying. What? Continue. Continue. Yes. That's so crazy. Okay.

Jack: And Hank happened to be a British guy. And she always believed and never told her husband that he. She always believed he was the father of Victoria, her daughter.

Cristina: Wow.

Jack: She was convinced and kept this s*** a secret.

Cristina: Gosh. Okay.

Jack: Yeah. And then in explaining this, they're like, this whole family is nuts. And they institutionalize her. They thought she was, you know, dangerous f****** situation. Because at this point, she's talking about ghosts.

Cristina: Does, like, she know? Does she say what happened to him? Does she know?

Jack: No, she has no idea.

Cristina: Okay. But she's now believes the daughter because of the ex or whatever being the same ghost. Or at least that's what she thinks is Happening. This is her story. Her side of story is that she believes her ghost ex.

Jack: Well, now she's just, like, trying to explain anything. It's just like, I knew a guy named Hank or whatever, and blah, blah, blah. And it's just, you know, she's freaking out.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Now, again, she. She begged the police to listen so consistently, she was like, please, come on. This is totally happening. This is true. Hank f****** killed them or whatever the h*** the story here is. He told the little girl, little girl told me, but little girl isn't telling. The cops told the grandma, and the grandma's on the cops and sounds kind of nuts.

Cristina: And they're not gonna question the girl about it.

Jack: They are. I mean, you can question the little girl about her imaginary friend.

Cristina: If they think she knows something about the murder.

Jack: They don't.

Cristina: They.

Jack: Why would an imaginary friend tell you information about the murder?

Cristina: Isn't that what the grandma is saying that happened?

Jack: Yes, but the cops are like, well, this holds water. Both the parents died of a heart attack. Let's review that.

Cristina: Oh, yes. It's not a murder.

Jack: There is no murder. You're looking for the weird, so you're seeing it. But there's no weird so far because.

Cristina: If it was a murder, they would still talk to the girlies.

Jack: Now there's a problem. Yeah.

Cristina: Okay. But no, there's no murder. This grandma's just crazy.

Jack: This is a crazy grandma. Who said that? Her. Basically, she's spazzing the f*** out because she has crazy guilt.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: That's what they're saying. The guilt broke her. There was no murder. There's nothing suspicious. The coroner's report said it was a heart attack. So, yeah, this old lady gets put in an asylum and the little girl gets committed because of this crazy, right?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: It's a nuts story.

Cristina: So, like, the gram. Or for their. They think she just made up these stories. Do they think she made up the stories of the imaginary friend? Like, that's all.

Jack: Maybe her, maybe. I don't know. I don't know why they would ever report that. But. But maybe. I guess it could. I guess the logic would be she made up the stories because she got committed. But, like, I don't know. They. They weren't like. Also, we think, you know, like, we also believe she made up the stories that the little girl was telling us or telling her or whatever.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: She made up all of it. Well, I guess that part. They think she made up all of it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Now, after this case, right, the old lady gets committed and Jackie gets Placed in a foster home where she claims to spent her time with Hank. This. The. The. This is where this makes the news. This lady, her friend or something explains that Jackie, through her entire time staying at the foster home, always talked about this guy named Hank who she spent time with, but nobody saw her spend time with. With. Now, she never pretended to be around anybody, but she would always talk about her friend Hank.

Cristina: Okay, wait, the person telling story is a friend of hers?

Jack: Yeah. So there's a bunch of this is pieced together by a bunch of crap.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And now we're talking about the news report that Fox had about 9 wondering why is there a report about this? So the news report that Fox had where the friend of her was talking and explaining that she was always talking about this guy Hank. But, like, we spent almost all time together. There's no way she knew a guy named Hank. And she leaves the foster home at 18, so, you know, taking contacts for too long. But on her 21st birthday, Jackie's found.

Cristina: Dead from her heart attack. No. I don't know.

Jack: In a forest.

Cristina: No.

Jack: Leaning against a tree. From a heart attack, according to Connor's report.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: What?

Cristina: That. What. Who pieced the story together if no one believed any of it, or I guess, like, afterwards. Because this friend at least heard stories about Hank.

Jack: About Hank. Yes, she knew about Hank. She didn't know who the h*** Hank was. She just heard about the guy named Hank. And then working backwards, they come across the information necessary to then claim all these things. So there's enough police reports, there's coroner reports, there's the documents that put the grandma in the asylum, and the grandma is still alive to ask questions to. So. Yeah.

Cristina: So did the grandma have more information?

Jack: Knew Grandma knew what she knew, and that was it.

Cristina: Oh, I don't understand. Like, this is supposed to be some weird ghost story, or is this a real person that's stalking a family?

Jack: I don't know. It's crazy, right?

Cristina: Yeah, because, like, I don't get it. Like, how are they dying from heart attacks?

Jack: That's the craziest part. The immediate thing I thought about when I was checking this out was like, somebody has a death note. Somebody. Like, how is everybody going off of a heart attack, bro?

Cristina: Yes. Walking into a forest. And. Yeah.

Jack: It's like somebody wrote the instructions ahead of time, and then it's like, just put the name a heart attack. How weird. It could have been anything else. They could have just all walked off a bridge.

Cristina: I don't understand. Like, why would. If this was like A ghost story. Why he would have this much hate to do all that? Like, did her husband murder him? Or something like that would make sense, I guess, as revenge. I don't know. Like, we don't know anything.

Jack: Yeah. The problem with the. When stories like this are real is that somebody's withholding information because they don't want to look bad. So maybe if this was a re. If this is a ghost story, if this is a ghost doing this, somebody had to do something to him, right?

Cristina: Yeah. Like, besides lying about. There's no way that that's the whole truth.

Jack: Yeah. That some, like, this old lady knows. Like, my husband died because he was killed by the guy because he went out to kill him in the first place or whatever.

Cristina: Yeah. Or he just killed the guy and then that's it. That's all she knows. Like, oh, my lover just disappeared one day after I got pregnant.

Jack: Well, interesting enough, she did say that she cheated on her husband with the guy, but never told the husband that she thought that was the father of the daughter. But did her husband not know or did he know?

Cristina: What if he did know and then killed the guy? Yeah. And this was his revenge.

Jack: Yeah. 100 it could be. But also, why would he kill his own daughter? Unless that wasn't actually his daughter? She only thought it was.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Again, she wasn't sure. She was convinced, but it.

Cristina: She was convinced. And maybe her husband was also convinced.

Jack: Yes. But maybe he just wasn't. And it's like, you killed me for nothing.

Cristina: Yeah. Whoa. That could totally be it. Who knows? But, like, yeah, if that was his daughter, why do this? Why? Murder. It's just too much murder to be like.

Jack: It's no murder.

Cristina: No. Well, whatever.

Jack: To this moment, there has not been a single murder.

Cristina: Suspicious heart attacks.

Jack: Yes. Ex absorbently suspicious heart attacks.

Cristina: Yes. I don't know. Like, if we don't count him in, then what is happening? How did they. Why and what the.

Jack: Do the woods have to do with anything?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Or the forest. Whatever.

Cristina: Forest. Yeah.

Jack: Also, weirder question. Why is the mom all the way in California?

Cristina: Yes. How? Why?

Jack: Well, how? She probably hitchhiked there. But, like, what?

Cristina: Maybe Frank was from there. Who knows? I don't know none of that. Hank. Hank. Is it Frank? Yeah, whatever.

Jack: No, he was from England.

Cristina: Yeah, but he lived somewhere in America afterwards. Like, she met him in England.

Jack: Unclear. She dated a British guy and he worked at a lighthouse off the coast of England.

Cristina: Yes, but was she dating him there? I don't think so.

Jack: I mean, how would she date a guy Working at the lighthouse. Yeah, but I guess he worked at the lighthouse. It doesn't necessarily mean. No, it was off the coast. So he wasn't, like, on. On a f****** island, I guess.

Cristina: I'm guessing he vacationed in America or something. Yeah.

Jack: Like, how'd she meet him? You know, unless she vacationed. But no, this. Okay, so if we're trying to make this make sense, he had to come over here.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Not the other way around. So she just had, like, a fling. Probably in California.

Cristina: Exactly, because maybe she was on vacation.

Jack: Maybe they were both on vacation, man. In California. Some s*** went down. Then she confessed to her husband. Her husband went over there immediately and off. The guy. Maybe. She was in vacation with her husband, obviously. And then, you know, wild night where he was just at home. She was, you know, I'm gonna go hang out at the bar. You don't want to come out, whatever. And, you know, things happen. Goes home with Hank or not even goes home. Maybe Hank rents a car. Something happens with Hank, and then she feels. Oh, well, the pregnancy I have isn't my husband. Oh, my God. Yeah, but it was totally. Was your husband. And then your husband finds out because you confess or something. Oh, honey, I'm so sorry.

Cristina: I thought she kept it a secret. I mean, she did keep a secret from her daughter, I'm assuming, because she just let it out after everything happened, but I don't know. Yeah, I think she probably confessed.

Jack: Yeah. Yeah. To her husband.

Cristina: Yeah, Exclusively.

Jack: And so. So then the order of events were going by. Is lady lives in Oklahoma. She then has a vacation in California.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: By the Murdoch National Forest, actually. When her husband, for whatever reason, isn't with her and she happens to meet a guy named Hank, they have a fling in the forest. Yeah, that's where they f******.

Cristina: Oh, the plot thickens. Yes.

Jack: They f*** in the forest.

Cristina: And he probably was killed in the forest or his body was hidden in the forest after he was killed.

Jack: One of Holy. That's exactly what happened. They didn't f*** in the forest. They probably in the car parked by the forest.

Cristina: Oh, my gosh.

Jack: She explains to her husband what happened. Her husband goes and kills the guy, takes him to the forest. It just so happens to be the nearby forest. So both events take place there.

Cristina: Yes. And she has no clue what he's doing.

Jack: She has no clue that he did this. She just knows she confessed.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: The end. That's her. The extent of her knowledge. Her husband did the rest, and he has no reason to. He's horrified that he did this. He's not gonna be like, I killed a guy and threw him in the forest.

Cristina: Yeah. That's a secret he dies with.

Jack: Yeah. They go back home. She's pregnant. She does not tell her husband that she believes that's the other guy's baby. But she does believe that the other guy's baby. Which is probably not the case. It's probably just her husband's child. She's just guilty. She feels guilty.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And all these other thoughts are associated with the guilt. Simple. Simple. One plus one equals two. Most cases. But sometimes it could equal one as well. But we're not gonna dive into this. Into the semantics of how math is kind of difficult to understand. So he kills a guy. She doesn't tell him. She thinks it's his baby. Totally not his baby. But this lady grows up, marries a guy named Jonathan, and then they have a daughter named Jackie. And then Jackie has an imaginary, unquote friend.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: For whatever reason, this guy is messing with this girl. I guess this spirit is just waiting. And then one day, the moment arrives and the whole scenario happens. So car by the woods where she probably f***** in the first place. The guy. Because it's just possibility. And then the bodies in the woods where her late husband had buried. Not literally in the first instance, but that's why the mom, the actual biological one.

Cristina: Mm. Is buried over there.

Jack: Not buried.

Cristina: Found over there.

Jack: Yes. Interesting enough, I wouldn't be surprised if the guy's body is beneath that tree. But they would have had no reason to look.

Cristina: No.

Jack: Also, that happened so f****** long ago. There's no sign on the dirt.

Cristina: Yeah. There's no way that they could piece that together.

Jack: Yeah. So it's just a dead lady.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: But the guy who isn't her father is buried directly beneath her.

Cristina: Possibly.

Jack: What?

Cristina: That's crazy.

Jack: The idea here is that all of this happened, everybody in this lady's family died because of her f****** cheating on her husband in her first place.

Cristina: The ghost got his revenge by not killing her.

Jack: By not killing her. Letting her stay alive to watch all this. To know her family's dead.

Cristina: Yeah, like he really had it out for her.

Jack: Maybe she could. The problem is, maybe she could have stopped her husband. Maybe just not telling him would have been the right move.

Cristina: Yeah. Or maybe she has suspicious also that he did something to Hank and just never said anything. Like she's living with that guilt.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: It's way more than just.

Jack: Yeah, she could definitely have an inkling and, like you didn't avenge his death.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And it's Your fault he's dead. Yeah, like you didn't redeem yourself.

Cristina: But what if it has nothing to do with her story or whatever? Like, what if this girl did have an imaginary friend that was a ghost? Maybe in the house? Is that possible? I don't know. Like. But he has the name of the other guy.

Jack: Yes, yes, yes. The name is where this immediately becomes a ghost story.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: If the name didn't line up, then it wouldn't be a ghost. And who he killed. Why wasn't it. Why didn't he just hurt the little girl?

Cristina: Why did he take all these steps? Like. But it feels like it also, it wasn't in his control either. Because you say he like, changed over time. He was friendly at first, and then he just grew more and more hateful.

Jack: And that's interesting, right? What's that about? That's also where it gets kind of creepy. The rest of it is. It's more of a mystery. Everything is mystery until you get to the silent hill aspect of the little girl. That one patch is like, what happened because he was just playing with her, which would then make you think, no, that is your daughter. That's your granddaughter. That's your granddaughter.

Cristina: Unless he didn't have all his memory and he was gaining it. And that's what's all the glitchiness. Not glitchy, but, you know, the odd.

Jack: Behavior that's somehow somewhere, some such is so horrifying. I don't know why that disturbed me. The fact that he's a ghost with no memories. And then suddenly the memories start coming. It's f****** twitching and.

Cristina: Yeah. And then the hate starts growing. But that's real hate that he had before he died. But he just didn't have it at the moment when he met the girl. I guess. Like it just formed.

Jack: Interesting. Interesting.

Cristina: Like that makes sense because he was playing with her. He was normal. He was like, whatever.

Jack: Yes. And then slowly, gradually, more corrupted, broken, more twisted.

Cristina: Yeah. Like that's very strange. Could it be because it. What does that even mean? A ghost gaining memories?

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: How's that a thing like that means.

Jack: He was a goat. An incomplete ghost to some degree.

Cristina: Yes. I don't know. That's like.

Jack: And why focus on the little girl unless you're actually related? Related?

Cristina: You think? Maybe. I don't know.

Jack: If it wasn't, then he would have just focused on the old lady. But he didn't. In fact, the old lady was completely left out of it. That part right there makes me think that's actually the Victoria Is actually his daughter.

Cristina: Okay. Because he was around her. Well, sort of.

Jack: Daughter. He's around the daughter. Somebody in the family. As opposed to being around Stephanie, the grandmother.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: That makes me think. Yes. And I guess it would hold. The story would still hold. So Stephanie and her husband go on vacation. For whatever reason, one night, she's not with her husband. She meets a British man named Hank, who happens to also be in a vacation. They're from Oklahoma, but they're vacationing in California by the Modoc woods. She has a flame in the car parked on the side of the highway with Hank. She does get pregnant by Hank. She confesses to her husband what happened.

Cristina: Yes. And he goes. Fine.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Hank. He goes find Hank. Kills him in the woods.

Jack: Well, kills him and.

Cristina: And then buries him in the woods.

Jack: Probably.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Could have killed him in the woods, could have killed him somewhere else. Regardless, he kills him.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And he puts him in the woods.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Then they leave. But she is, in fact, pregnant. She doesn't tell her husband that she's pregnant with his. The other guy's baby. He thinks this is his child.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But it's not. Fast forward. Hank's spirit follows the bloodline manifests to the little girl. His granddaughter.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Because victorious. His actual daughter.

Cristina: It has to be. Maybe. But I wonder if she had an imaginary friend and the grandma just doesn't remember. But then again, she would have known. Like, this would have.

Jack: Like this would have happened already. Yeah, it would have already happened. There would have been. No, no, Jackie, no. Because Victoria is where it would have ended.

Cristina: Why was a heart attack?

Jack: Why would a heart attack. That's another thing that doesn't make sense. Because why wouldn't they just show up dead and then have no trace as a. Why, like, you know, like, only clearly murdered, stabbed to death, or, like, beat to death or whatever. But there's no trace of who did it. That would make sense. That's like. Okay, whatever happened to you, you did to them.

Cristina: Yeah. Unless he somehow died from a heart attack. Can you cause someone to have a heart attack?

Jack: I don't know. Maybe he hit him in the chest a couple of times, punch him in the chest repeatedly, and kill the guy by accident. Maybe. Maybe he went to beat the guy up, not kill him, and he beat the guy into having a heart attack. Maybe by hitting him in the chest, the guy dies. Then he goes ahead and buries the body in the panic. That's why this was never reported.

Cristina: Yeah, well, no matter how he did it.

Jack: But so the good. So Hank dies of A heart attack. And then he makes sure that the bloodline dies of a heart attack.

Cristina: Yes. Why kill the husband, though?

Jack: Yes. Because he's not related.

Cristina: It's not related. Yeah, but.

Jack: But keeping this in mind, maybe he sees Victoria and Jonathan as individuals that are mirroring what Stephanie did. Maybe they're not doing the same event. But he doesn't have a husband to take revenge out on. He has a daughter and his daughter has a husband to take revenge out on. Yeah, there's a husband somewhere.

Cristina: And I wonder how much the daughter reminds him of the mother of Stephanie.

Jack: Interesting. And then he's just. Yeah, it could totally be. It could totally be.

Cristina: It's just a weird build out. Like I don't feel. It doesn't feel like he planned it out from the beginning. Unless he. Maybe he did. I don't know. But then it's just weird. But we don't know the whole story.

Jack: We don't know the whole story because why would she tell us?

Cristina: Yeah, but I mean, like the little girl story too, of how he was friendly and then he just over times becomes a different person? Pretty much.

Jack: Well, here's what's interesting. The girl in the foster home isn't being tortured by Hank. Hank is just fine. It's just stories of being with Frank and spending time with him.

Cristina: That's also weird because she knows he killed her parents at this point.

Jack: Interesting. I wonder if this girl has some suppression problems going on, huh? Because it is traumatic. It's particularly traumatic. Your parents disappear, you got this crazy f***** tells you he killed them. Your grandma gets put away. You're young.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: You just create a blockade.

Cristina: I guess that would be the only way because, like, how are you living with all this nonsense going on? This is nonsense.

Jack: Like, interesting.

Cristina: What? Like she had. Did she believe him? Does she not believe him? You wouldn't know. I mean, her friends weren't worried about it. They were like, ah, she has an imaginary friend. Whatever.

Jack: She's an immature individual. At the end.

Cristina: She wasn't seeing a therapist. Still during that time, I maybe, like.

Jack: She'S already been seeing a therapist, so it wouldn't be like, crazy.

Cristina: Oh, and there's no story from them.

Jack: Why this? It would be illegal.

Cristina: Oh, there.

Jack: There's probably a crap ton of notes that nobody's ever gonna see because that would be illegal.

Cristina: This is. It's just a weird story, man. She did it. No. How did she do it?

Jack: Anyways, that's the story of Jackie and Stephanie.

Cristina: How she killed her parents.

Jack: No, I don't Know how her parents died.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So interesting, though.

Cristina: Yeah. A weird case of random heart attacks.

Jack: Random heart attacks and a crazy old lady with crazy stories.

Cristina: Yeah. Yeah, that's what it sums some.

Jack: Three heart attacks and a crazy old lady with crazy stories. Anyways. Anyways. Anyways. So we're totally way over the time here, but good. Bad, bad. Middle ground.

Cristina: Middle ground.

Jack: I think definitely not as horrifying as whatever the h*** happened last week at the Biovent is like, bro, that's horrifying. But this is just. This is just a weird.

Cristina: It's very weird.

Jack: It's very strange.

Cristina: It's.

Jack: It's probably just like.

Cristina: It's a bit icky. I don't know. Yeah, yeah.

Jack: And there's. Again, there's no murder anywhere.

Cristina: There's no murder, but it's very suspicious. Everything is like. It's not right.

Jack: It's not suspicious. It's very. Yeah, it's just not right. Right. There's just something like. This is weird.

Cristina: Three heart attacks. No way. In the forest. No way.

Jack: Yeah. And all of them in the same.

Cristina: Exact way in different forests. None of them in the same forest. Nope. That's very weird.

Jack: That is weird. Anyways, Anyways. Anyways, if you guys enjoy spooky stuff, we got two other episodes right before this one that are strange circumstances that.

Cristina: Have happened in life, and we have other episodes. Episodes. Older episodes.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: About weird, strange, real events.

Jack: Yes. There's a bunch. And not just real, there's a bunch of just like mythical crap that's weird, too. And like a bunch of horrifying creatures everywhere. There's a plethora. We. We kind of circle horror often, although we don't word it in horror kind of ways. There's a lot of creepy we talk about when you think about it.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And you can find all that on the podcast platforms. Any of them. And if there's one we're not on, like, I don't know, send us a message. And you could actually send us that message on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram @justcomfopod, as well as find a bunch of clips and crap there.

Cristina: Awesome. And remember to subscribe, rate, and review the show.

Jack: Word of mouth, incredibly important. So, you know, if you. I guess that's not even word of mouth, but. How do I put it? If you rate the show, though, it's the equivalent of word of mouth, I guess, because we move up, you're telling.

Cristina: People, hey, but if you review it, aren't you doing the same thing?

Jack: Yeah, if you rate it, you bring us up and you're like, hey, worth looking at. And if you review it, you're literally letting people know. Letting people know with words. Although not words of mouth. It's words of keyboards.

Cristina: Yes. Words of keyboard. Yes. Okay. I let someone who might like this show know about it.

Jack: Thus insert the word of mouth.

Cristina: Yes. This has been the Rambling podcast. Take nothing personal. Thanks for listening. Bye. And these penguin guards, what are they? They're just. They're just guards.

Jack: They're guards. There's some sort of chimera of some sort or some man made creature. Maybe there's. Maybe there's birds and penguins over the. I don't f****** know, man. I don't pay attention. Yeah, we're. Our job is inside the.

Cristina: Inside the wall. Yeah. That's why we don't really travel outside the wall.

Jack: Yeah. There's no reason to.

Cristina: Yeah. Everything is in here. Yeah.

Jack: Yeah. So that's definitely, you know, that's what's happening there. And the reason that it's connected to Martin Luther King is actually that Martin Luther King, he had to communicate with the people from the other side of the wall to get help to establish laws that would help inside the wall.

Cristina: He had to do that.

Jack: He didn't directly. Basically, Martin Luther King would have secret meetings with President. What the h*** was his name? Lynn? Lyndon.

Cristina: Lyndon.

Jack: Lyndon Johnson. Yeah, President Lyndon Johnson. Martin Luther King would have special meetings with President Lyndon Johnson. This is fact secret meeting. Some of them were recorded unknowing. And these meetings took place because, you know, as, you know, world leaders communicate with higher ups and the chain goes all the way to the top of the Illuminati, top of Freemasons, top of government, all these things that usually manage from outside the wall. And so he needed to talk to the president to get messages from the president to the overseers and overlords on the other side of the wall to then get resources sent back so that we can, you know, they would have advice, they would send people to help and black neighborhoods need help or whatever. And so people would show up that like, where are those people from? But, you know, so much help, we're not gonna question it. And it's because people from over the wall are showing up to help.

Cristina: Good morning. Good morning. This podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by greatthoughts.info art by 0lupo and logo by Seth McAllister with social media managed by Amber Black.

Rambling 150: Shadow God

Is there a pattern in Groundhog God’s behavior? Is there a pattern in which other God’s we see? Why is Adrenochrome so prominent in everything the underworld offers throughout the course of history? Is the point of reality Adrenochrome related? After being attacked by a rabid groundhog, the due decide to unpack the connection of God, Groundhogs, Adrenochrome and Technology. Additionally delving into the Facebook Metaverse name change and what their new artificial reality will be capable of. What the duo uncovers about the metaverse is a flash from the past no one could have seen coming!

Rambling 150: Shadow God

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed:

  • Groundhog God
  • Facebook’s Metaverse
  • Androids
  • Elon Musk
  • Ugandan Knuckles
  • Genocidal Jack
  • Illuminati Clones
  • Caligrians
  • The Clone Origins
  • Planet X
  • The Death Star
  • Cat People
  • The Shadow Realm
  • Yu-Gi-Oh

Our Links:

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod

Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod

Instagram -https://instagram.com/justconvopod


+Transcript

Cristina: This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Cristina: Welcome to Just Conversation, the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas in childish ways. I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And I'm Jack.

Cristina: And if you haven't yet, remember to hit that subscribe button to get notified the second new episodes are released.

Jack: Yes, and also, this show is most enjoyable with a listening partner to share opinions and ideas on topics we discuss. So be sure to find somebody to listen to this show with. That's always the most important part. You go find somebody. Ah, my throat hurts so much it's crazy.

Cristina: Why? What's wrong with your throat?

Jack: You know what's wrong with my throat.

Cristina: You got Covid.

Jack: I got Covid. Can you imagine? Just be here in the. In the showroom, recording. I got Covid. Everybody's getting Covid. We're all catching COVID Because I brought Covid.

Cristina: Yeah, it's crazy, because you got the shot. What was it you told Clevername? You got it 7 times already?

Jack: 17 times.

Cristina: 17 times the shot.

Jack: 17 times the most vaccinated human, and.

Cristina: You still caught it.

Jack: And I still caught it.

Cristina: That's crazy.

Jack: And it's killing me.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: I'm probably going to be replaced soon with another clone.

Cristina: Clone.

Jack: Hopefully I make it. I mean, that was the goal, right? I caught the COVID and that's not even why I sound the way I do. No, that's unrelated.

Cristina: That's unrelated. Yes.

Jack: I just have Covid. That's another fact. Yeah, I just have Covid, But I was trying to beat the COVID with a beaver. With a.

Cristina: No. Groundhog. Yeah, they're all the same. Okay. Groundhog.

Jack: Yeah, they're close.

Cristina: They're close, you know?

Jack: God d***. But my throat hurts so much. So I'll fill you guys in with what happened. So I went out with some of the subhumans, and we decided we're going to go catch groundhog God, Jehovah. But I also decided we can get a normal groundhog and try to create a groundhog God. The groundhog God, like Jehovah. And so we went and we caught a normal groundhog, and we trapped it, and I was gonna inject it with some adrenochrome to see what would happen when the m*********** bit me in the neck.

Cristina: Wow.

Jack: So were you able to inject it afterwards? Yeah. Okay, so, like, I'm not gonna have, like, groundhog powers or anything, which would be dope.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Depending on what that would be, I guess.

Cristina: What do you mean? Any power should be a dope power.

Jack: I suppose.

Cristina: What would be a bad power?

Jack: I don't know, like I become a groundhog or I'm like a human size. Think about like the. The Beast from X Men.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like his life sucks. Or think about the thing from the Fantastic Four. Yeah, I get. Yeah, that's garbage, bro.

Cristina: I mean, as superheroes, it's fine dope. But in their normal lives as human beings, I guess that it sucks.

Jack: Yeah. Like, if I turned into. It would suck if I inj with adrenochrome and bites me and then I become like a giant groundhog.

Cristina: Yeah. That still speaks and everything.

Jack: Like, yeah, that sucks.

Cristina: Yeah, that sucks.

Jack: Oh, so, yeah, it sucks to talk. It hurts. It's. It. I sound weird.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And like, it's hard to even explain what's going on because it caught me on the right side of the neck. So it didn't hit like the jugular vein or any important thing.

Cristina: You didn't bleed out.

Jack: And like we have all the secret Illuminati medication. So, like, I'm not going to get rabies or anything. Although, like, we had cures for like normal people can access cures for rabies, but I got like mega cure for rabies. So that's all stuff that's happening. But like, I can't do high pitched.

Cristina: Sounds or it will kill you.

Jack: Yeah, man, it hurts. I might die if I do some. Any kind of high octave thing where not even.

Cristina: What if you accidentally do a high octave and then you die in this while we're recording this?

Jack: That would be tragic. But then I would be replaced immediately by a more clear sounding clone.

Cristina: So should we try to kill you?

Jack: No, because I like living. That's a fact.

Cristina: Sure.

Jack: Yeah. I enjoy being alive quite a bit.

Cristina: All right, just checking.

Jack: Yeah. So that's what's happening over here. Just a lot of.

Cristina: So we couldn't find the groundhog God, though.

Jack: We haven't done that yet. We haven't even gone out to find out if there is a groundhog God that we're gonna catch. We're presuming that that's the thing, and it probably is.

Cristina: Realistically, I thought we were doing that. And you also wanted to test out if you could turn one into the God.

Jack: We're gonna go. We're hunting to see where we're gonna find groundhog God. We gotta look in the area where the groundhog that predicts the weather or whatever the f***.

Cristina: I think that's in Philadelphia. Right. I don't know. Maybe. His name is Phil, I'm assuming. Yes.

Jack: His name is Phil, therefore he is from Philadelphia.

Cristina: He's named after the location he lives. Positive.

Jack: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

Cristina: Yeah. Yeah.

Jack: PPP Yeah, I think so. Phil from Pennsylvania.

Cristina: Well, his name is like two Peas, so it would be PPP Why is.

Jack: His name two Peas?

Cristina: Because it's the town he's from.

Jack: Starts with a P. No f****** way.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Really?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Isn't Philadelphia the town he's in?

Cristina: No, that's not really the town he's in. It's another town that starts with a P. Really? Yeah.

Jack: That's a fact.

Cristina: Yes. It's a really complicated word, though.

Jack: Okay. Like Poughkeepsie.

Cristina: Poughkeepsie. What is a Poughkeepsie?

Jack: It's a town.

Cristina: What town? Where is it?

Jack: I don't know where it is.

Cristina: Why do you know it's.

Jack: The name of the town is Poughkeepsie. And I don't know why I know things. I don't know the answers to stuff, but. Yeah. So today's show is brought to you by the letter H and the letter P. P. And you put them together and it equals gaining Life.

Cristina: Gaining. His name is Punksu. To.

Jack: Phil.

Cristina: Yes, Phil. I said Phil. Right. And that P word is in Pennsylvania. So you see, it was pretty on it.

Jack: Yeah, I guess so. It is in Pennsylvania.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So he's from. Yeah, it's. His name is PP from pp.

Cristina: He's PP from pp?

Jack: Yeah, he's PP from pp. This is a very adult, mature content show. We are only.

Cristina: That's why we're not laughing.

Jack: We're only. Yeah. Because there's nothing funny about Peepee from pp.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Them be the facts.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Facts aren't meant to be funny.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: They're just objective truths.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So we gotta go there and hunt God.

Cristina: Yes. How are we gonna go there? I mean, it's not even that far, is it?

Jack: No, that's incredibly close.

Cristina: Why haven't we found him yet?

Jack: Because it's a large area.

Cristina: Are you sure? What if that town is very tiny? I don't know.

Jack: Pennsylvilladelphia?

Cristina: No. Punxus. Whatever. The P word. That. He's from the town.

Jack: Oh, s***. He's named after the town.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Punxutaway.

Cristina: Let's just say he's from Pun. Okay.

Jack: Yeah, whatever. It doesn't matter where he's from. We're gonna go there and we're gonna. Cat.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: It is what it is, man.

Cristina: Did you murder that thing? No, we're just watching and waiting.

Jack: Yeah. Yeah, pretty much.

Cristina: What if he becomes you?

Jack: I highly doubt that. You, like, eat a piece of me?

Cristina: No. But he bit you.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: That would be enough to turn you into beaver.

Jack: Groundhog.

Cristina: Groundhog. What if he turned into a groundhog?

Jack: He wasn't radioactive or anything.

Cristina: How do you know? Did you check if he was before you did it?

Jack: He wasn't normal.

Cristina: Did you check, though, before?

Jack: Yes, that was the point. We couldn't have an already modified groundhog and give it adrenochrome.

Cristina: Well, I thought you just got a random groundhog and maybe forgot to check it.

Jack: No, we are professionals.

Cristina: Okay?

Jack: Yeah, it was just a groundhog.

Cristina: So what powers would you want from a groundhog, though? You don't want to turn into one, I guess.

Jack: But what power does a groundhog have? Didn't we go through this once where you talked about the powers of a groundhog or some?

Cristina: I think so. I talked about other. Other animals.

Jack: Really? I don't know. It could dig.

Cristina: Well, it could dig. So you're gonna. That's the power you want?

Jack: Just dig underground?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Unrealistically fast. They don't even dig really fast. Like it isn't astounding.

Cristina: It's probably equal to you digging.

Jack: Yeah. It's not crazy, you know?

Cristina: Yeah. Do they at least have good vision in the dark?

Jack: Probably not.

Cristina: Probably. Oh.

Jack: They don't need to see too much when they're in a hole in the dark. There's no light in there.

Cristina: Shouldn't they be seeing? Well, no, they're not like moles or something.

Jack: In order to have night vision like other animals, do you usually have a little bit of light? It's the ability to see in low light.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Isn't light coming into your eyes? You can't see Like a cat in straight up darkness is still blind. So in a hole like that, it doesn't matter.

Cristina: Okay. And it can't develop those other powers that the moles have, like being able.

Jack: To feel where everything is. Yeah, I guess it could, but the mole did that already, so.

Cristina: But you wouldn't want that power.

Jack: Well, I wouldn't get that from a groundhog, no. Yeah. Groundhog doesn't give us that kind of stuff.

Cristina: What if you were furry as one?

Jack: That sucks. I just described.

Cristina: No, you don't want to be. You're not going to be a giant groundhog. You're still human.

Jack: No, I don't want to be furry at all. That sucks.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: I want to look like a groundhog in any manner, shape or form. Not even fur wise.

Cristina: I wonder what powers they have. They have to have something that makes them special besides predicting the future.

Jack: I don't care. That groundhog. What have you been up to?

Cristina: What have I been up to?

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Hiding from Mark Zuckerberg.

Jack: Mark Zuckerfucker? Why?

Cristina: His commercial scares me.

Jack: The Metaverse commercial?

Cristina: He's so not human.

Jack: What's not human about him?

Cristina: Just him talking. It's just. It does feel like he's pretending to be Data from Star Trek. It's so crazy that he's just trying to be normal and it's not coming off as normal.

Jack: Well, he's a weird guy.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like he has little option to what he can do to fix that. Like he is who he is.

Cristina: Like he's trying to play around with what we. How we see him. But it's really hard not to see him as how we see him.

Jack: Yeah, like his joke. Oh, I thought I was the robot.

Cristina: Yes, like that. It doesn't help.

Jack: Well, it get. It shows us that he gets what's happening. Like he understands that we believe that.

Cristina: Yes, but it didn't help. I don't know, it convinced me more that he's a robot.

Jack: Why?

Cristina: Cuz it's something. I don't know. Maybe it's that weird. He's Data. He's a robot. He's whatever Data is. What is Data? He's a robot. Completely. He's something else.

Jack: He's a fool.

Cristina: Yeah, he's a robot.

Jack: Yeah, he's an Android. His robot made to simulate a person.

Cristina: I think Mark is that. I think Mark is an Android.

Jack: And who made him?

Cristina: Elon Musk.

Jack: That'd be an interesting. And like, I wouldn't put it past him, you know?

Cristina: Yes. He didn't probably plan on him making Facebook or any of that. He just made a robot just to see what would happen. And then that robot did all this other stuff that Elon wasn't predicting at all. He just made the robot for fun.

Jack: Or maybe he did plan on him making Facebook.

Jack: Maybe he's pulling all the strings.

Cristina: Why would he care about Facebook?

Jack: He has everybody's information.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Why are all his companies so successful?

Cristina: Because of Facebook. No.

Jack: Elon Musk. Yeah, he knows what people want.

Cristina: Oh. Because he knows what people want and.

Jack: He builds an entire company around the concept of what people want.

Cristina: But he hangs out on Twitter and on Facebook.

Jack: Unless he does, he doesn't need to hang out on Facebook because Zucker F***** does. He not only the Creator of Facebook. But he exists inside Facebook, reading all the data and then he just reports back to Elon Musk and gives him all the data he's discovered.

Cristina: Interesting.

Jack: In summarized versions that provide the most efficient knowledge.

Cristina: What kind of information does he need?

Jack: Well, what are people talking about these days? What's the most talked about?

Cristina: Conspiracies? I don't know.

Jack: And he solves them. He probably the guy who tells Trump what to do. When we were talking about the guy on top who tells everybody else what to do. It's probably Elon Musk. He's probably the boss of the queen and everything. He's the guy on top. If we just follow every line to the top. Elon Musk is at the top of every line.

Cristina: That's a little hard to imagine. Well, okay.

Jack: Why?

Cristina: Because. Over the queen.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: How did he do it?

Jack: Science.

Cristina: Science got him there. Whoa.

Jack: The power of science got Elon Musk on top. Yeah. I think that's definitely what's going on. Used the power of science in a virtual world.

Cristina: What is your avatar gonna look like?

Jack: What? In the metaverse? In the Facebook metaverse.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: I don't know.

Cristina: You can make it look like yourself, which is a weird choice to go with.

Jack: You could exist in a fictional world and you're just gonna make you.

Cristina: Yeah, because one of the people in that commercial just was themselves.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Like a hologram version of themselves.

Jack: Yeah. Is that what he really believes is going to happen?

Cristina: That people are going to do that? You know what? I'm going to be right.

Jack: What are you going to be?

Cristina: The little round knuckles running around Uganda Knuckles. Yeah.

Jack: Oh, my God. I know that's going to happen. Isn't. Wait, isn't that a metaverse? What the f*** was that?

Cristina: Yeah, that is. I don't know. What's it called, what game that is or where that's.

Jack: Yeah, they invaded that s*** hard.

Cristina: And it's going to go in Facebook.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uganda Knuckles will live again.

Cristina: Yeah, but what would your character look like?

Jack: Probably Uganda Knuckles as well.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: I joined that movement immediately.

Cristina: Yes. Gotta make it happen.

Jack: Yeah. It'll be amazing. Can you imagine another army of Uganda knuckles just trolling until that avatar gets banned again?

Cristina: Yes. You gotta. Well, what does he do? Stalk girls and say something? I forgot what he says.

Jack: He shows you the way.

Cristina: Oh, yeah. He shows you the way.

Jack: Shows you the way. Brada.

Cristina: Yes. Can't wait.

Jack: You do not know the way.

Cristina: Yes. That man. I wonder what else. I don't know.

Jack: That was a good brief Moment in history. Yeah, it was great.

Cristina: And I guess you gotta make a character, like, I don't know, a video game character that you, like, you could just put in. I wonder.

Jack: No, I'm gonna just be some chick.

Cristina: I'm just gonna be some chick.

Jack: Yeah, I'm a troll. Guys get free. So you do you dress up like a chicken? Nerds. Wanna. You or your avatar.

Cristina: Your avatar?

Jack: Yeah, I do it all the time, man. I play chicks and games.

Cristina: And they give you stuff.

Jack: Yeah, they just want to f*** my avatar.

Cristina: Oh, do you let them f*** your avatar? No, no. Okay.

Jack: I flirt with them, though, you know, in game. Flirting, winks and highs. And I follow them around. They're like, oh, yeah, I got a video game girl.

Cristina: Then you murder them.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do that kind of often.

Cristina: You're serial killer.

Jack: I kind of am, dude.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like, let's be real. Let's be real. Totally out of character right now. Just me, the real clone, and, like, worker for the Illuminati. None of this other s*** I pretend to be, Right? This is who I really, truly, honestly am.

Cristina: You, Jack the River.

Jack: I kind of murder a lot. Let's look at my track record, right? Video games. Just going through video games before we get to the bigger picture. I consistently. But I'm not like. Like, let's think of like Grand Theft Auto, right? I don't go around just casually murdering people.

Cristina: No, you do. On the Red Dead.

Jack: Well, the problem is I'll go and I'll randomly, in gta, go into a bunk after the lobby has pacified and there's no chaos happening. And what will I do? I'll get an armored truck that nobody could blow up. Oh, I'll go outside and just start f****** people up with that truck, sending the entire lobby into a frenzy of murdering one another.

Cristina: Why would you.

Jack: And then I'll stop murdering people.

Cristina: Poor kid.

Jack: I don't know. Because I can.

Cristina: Because you can.

Jack: In Red Dead, I passively go wave at somebody. Go chill with them, follow them around.

Cristina: They think, oh, yeah, Pretend to be their buddy.

Jack: Yeah, we're gonna go do things together. And then when they least expect it, I blow their f****** brains out.

Cristina: And then run away.

Jack: And then run away. Then they can't find me.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And I make sure they know I'm still in the world. But I quick travel somewhere they can't find me. And then I leave the nearest town, and then they can't find me. If they're traveling from down to town, they gotta find me in the middle of West Bubba F*** killer.

Cristina: I guess that's not a serial killer because you're not hunting specific people or anything.

Jack: No, I'm just a mass murderer.

Cristina: Mass murderer? Yeah, that's the right word.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: If we talk about the real world, though, what you did with the cockroach people is mass murder.

Jack: Yeah. It's genocide.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it's a lot. A lot of life. I killed a lot of Reptilians, but there's a lot alive resistant slaves. Like, a lot of them.

Cristina: Yeah. Not as bad as what we did with the cockroach Fuel.

Jack: No, nothing. Nothing beats that. That was way early, before we understood what we were dealing with. Before s*** got weird and there was a bunch of other s*** happening. But, yeah, we. We f***** that up. I did end up marrying one of the survivors, huh?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: My wife is a giant cockroach.

Cristina: Mm. Does she scare? Is she afraid of you? I don't understand. How did it happen?

Jack: She understands.

Cristina: She understands that she.

Jack: But it was Amy.

Cristina: It wasn't this you. It was before you became you.

Jack: I don't. I don't know what the canon of this show is. I don't know the lore. So, like, somebody needs to explain this to me. Am I the one who's the same killer? Is anybody listening? Who, like, kept track of this? Because I don't know. And I'm not going to go back and find out. Like, go listen to everything and tell me, am I the same guy who destroyed that planet, destroyed Mars with cockroaches on it? Or was it like a previous clone? Or, like, what the f***? I don't know.

Cristina: And which version of you did the time machine and which version of me? Because I don't think it was the one before the real you. I don't think it was that you, but I don't think it's this you either. I think there's just another you out there.

Jack: That's the thing.

Cristina: Unrelated, I think there's two.

Jack: I think there's two mews.

Cristina: Besides the one that was kill trying to kill you. Besides that you that's might still also be out there.

Jack: No, no, no, no, no, no. Oh, no. He killed Jermaine. There might be three of us.

Cristina: Exactly. There's three of yous out here.

Jack: See, this is why we need somebody who listens to this show religiously to, like, build. Build this narrative so we can see and, like, tell me, I want to know. Which are you, which am I?

Cristina: Which you is you.

Jack: I know I'm number three, you're for.

Cristina: Sure the one that married the roach.

Jack: For sure, for sure, for sure. Yeah. Because I've been here a while. I've been here for, like, three seasons maybe.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like, season two had, like, two different clones.

Cristina: Really?

Jack: Yeah. All that happened in, like, season two.

Cristina: Okay. With the time machine and the murdering your friend.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Like, a huge part of the lore happened in season two.

Cristina: And that's why we have no idea.

Jack: And that's why you have no idea. A bunch of that s*** happened all together. Because before then, it was just a show.

Cristina: Yes, it was. Normal podcast.

Jack: Was a normal podcast back in the old days when we had Reaper here and we were all just a bunch of people before the Illuminati recruited us because of how informative we were. And then we got recruited and then we got told the secrets and then.

Cristina: We spoiled it, and then we died.

Jack: Well, we didn't necessarily, but you know us. And then the originals started talking s*** because they didn't know better. They got put down and boom, the clones showed up. But through several different things that happened, here we are.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Many clones on the line. Third clone each.

Cristina: We're the third clone.

Jack: We're the third clone. Yeah.

Cristina: What happened to our second clone?

Jack: I don't remember.

Cristina: Are you positive?

Jack: I am positive. We're number three. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cristina: I just remember Dave dying with Dave.

Jack: Well, here's the thing. I know the one with the time machine wasn't the original.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: The episode with Dave is where the first got killed because we were talking s*** about the Illuminati.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: He died that day too.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: We all got replaced.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Right.

Cristina: But what happened?

Jack: Well, that was the first. Then we had the clone that came to kill, so we had a different clone, I guess, for a future clone that came to kill the past clone he was meant to replace, I guess. But he was retarded because he was clone of clone.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So he was already the second clone. So he couldn't tell the difference between Jemaine and myself. Although we don't look anything alike. And, like, for whatever reason, my clone at that point had one robot arm.

Cristina: Yes, he has a robot arm and.

Jack: A robot leg and an eyepatch or some s*** like that. Yeah, pirate looking.

Cristina: Yes, he looked like you, except he was missing parts.

Jack: Yeah. Something went terribly wrong. And he wasn't the brightest either.

Cristina: No.

Jack: And he was the second one who came to kill the previous. We'd still not use the time machine yet for the cat people.

Cristina: Are you positive? Because that was super random too.

Jack: D***. I don't know.

Cristina: I don't know which came first. And even though, like, no matter what the order is, when do we die?

Jack: That's the biggest f****** problem, right? Because I know we're number three. I don't remember how we got here.

Cristina: When did we die again? Are you sure?

Jack: I am positive. We've been the third clone for a while.

Cristina: Are you sure you're not the second?

Jack: No, I'm positive. We're not the second. We're the third.

Cristina: I don't remember that. Are you sure?

Jack: I can keep repeating that?

Cristina: Yes, I'm sure. You don't know what season?

Jack: No. Everything happened between season two.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And three.

Cristina: All of it only died twice.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Okay. I just don't remember my second death.

Jack: I mean, of course you wouldn't. That. That's. That holds up. That's exactly what would happen, isn't it?

Cristina: But I would remember. No, I think you would remember because you're getting the memories of your last.

Jack: Yeah, but you no aren't cloned after dying.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like then take your DNA from the dead body.

Cristina: I guess not. I don't remember. Okay.

Jack: I remember specifically me. This version of me stopping the me who was sending people to the future or some s*** like that.

Cristina: You stop that person.

Jack: You remember that one version of me stopped that clone. That clone came after the situation where the Eyepatch wearing one armed clone killed Jimin.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And thus trapped the soul inside the system.

Cristina: But that just means there was multiple you at the same time. Doesn't mean that you are a second or third or a fourth. Well, because you'd have all happened at once.

Jack: Yeah, fair enough. We don't know what order we were made. And I'm saying that in the order of which they got introduced. I'm the third introduced. I'm the last to be introduced to the lore of this show.

Cristina: Okay, but the one that was going to kill you but ended up killing Jermaine, that was still you, wasn't it?

Jack: Yes, that was a retarded me.

Cristina: No, the you that was on that show that he was trying to kill.

Jack: Oh, yes, I was also.

Cristina: That was the second me that was not you.

Jack: You, though that was not Mimi, or that might have been Mimi.

Cristina: Don't.

Jack: Because the other me is the one who was running the time machine.

Cristina: The same one that was with him talking to him is the one that was running the time machine.

Jack: No, the one that was on the show with the one who is trying to kill him. Those are the same ones. And then Jermaine. But neither one of them is the one who was running the time machine.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: That's three total different. Yeah. Now, my intern, My understanding is we stopped the one creating the problem with the time machine.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Right. Because he was all jolly and happy about, you know, destroying s***.

Cristina: Well, he was trying to save the world and I didn't understand it. It was me trying to stop him because I wanted cat people and I didn't understand his goal of stopping the cat people.

Jack: S***. You know what? I might be the one.

Cristina: You might be the one?

Jack: I might be the one.

Cristina: Which one?

Jack: No, I'm not the third. I'm the second.

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: No, I'm the. I'm the first clone. No, the first clone died for sure. The first one of the. Because the original died and then the first clone died for both of us. Factually, that happened. Then we have. F***, there's like five of me, dude.

Cristina: Oh, my gosh. We can't even remember when the second clone died.

Jack: No, I know the first clone. I guess I don't remember when the first clone died. I know that both my first clone and your first clone died. And our original originals died. So that's already two people dead for each of us.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Then there's the retarded clone.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: With the eye patch in one arm.

Cristina: You.

Jack: That's me. Yeah. And then there is me, the either the one he was trying to kill or the one who was running the time machine. And whichever one of those I'm not is the third. Which is five total me's.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: If we just remove the original. That's four clones.

Cristina: That's four clones. Except I don't remember a first clone dying.

Jack: D***. I don't want to listen to all that all over again.

Cristina: That's too much work.

Jack: That's a lot. That's a lot.

Cristina: We should make up a reason. Why did our clones die then?

Jack: I don't know. There's definitely a reason, though. Somebody's gonna tell us. Somebody will.

Cristina: Look, the Spaghetti Monster killed us.

Jack: I think they started talking s*** about f****** Illuminati 2 by accident. Yeah. Yeah, I think it happened by accident.

Cristina: Oh, was it with a guest?

Jack: Might have been. But then the only guess where these bullshits happen are when Jermaine's on the show, when Dave is on the show, or when Ish is on the show. And with Ish, we went on other weird adventures.

Cristina: You started the cockroach war with Ish. Yes, yes, I was also in disagreement with that plan.

Jack: But it happened.

Cristina: But it happened.

Jack: Yes, it is what it is. See, Ish is ride or die. He's on board with cockroaches below the planet Insane.

Cristina: We were gonna lose and then we.

Jack: Had a hack off.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And that was amazing. And he hacked a robot.

Cristina: That was amazing.

Jack: Yeah, man. Ish is fun. We need him back.

Cristina: Yes. We need to do some kind of weird adventure with him.

Jack: Yeah, I like adventures with Ish. He's exciting.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: We never. He's the wild card.

Cristina: He's the wild. Exactly.

Jack: Every group needs a wild card.

Cristina: He's Charlie. Does that make you Dennis?

Jack: I think I'm Dennis in most cases. No matter who else is who else.

Cristina: He's Charlie.

Jack: I'm pretty Dennis. Would that be interesting? I'd like to come up with something after watching Dan. What is Dan Snaps or some. Dan put some s*** on YouTube where he brings on. It's like a podcast. And he brings on the homies.

Cristina: He brings on homies. Okay.

Jack: They do like weird experiments. And I'm like, that's a cool concept. I'd like to try that out.

Cristina: Yes, we gotta do that here.

Jack: Yeah, man. If I can get Dave Ish Reaper, you, me, I'll be Dungeon Master.

Cristina: But how we get so many people on the phone, or is it through the computer?

Jack: Yeah, we can like Skype them in or some.

Cristina: Yeah, we should do that.

Jack: Yeah. And have multiple people and then we can run cool experiments and.

Cristina: Awesome.

Jack: That'd be dope. If we can get that set up.

Cristina: Yes. We'll have a mystery. Guess. No, I don't know. Yes.

Jack: I don't know if people knew who they were.

Cristina: Nah, they'll be surprised. It's gonna be the Axeman.

Jack: The Axeman?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Who's the Axeman?

Cristina: The guy who scared some kids in the woods.

Jack: Oh, you mean the Woodsman.

Cristina: Yeah, the Woodsman.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: He's the surprise guest.

Jack: Can you imagine? We find a legit woodsman.

Cristina: That'd be cool. Now we gotta find the Woodsman.

Jack: That'd be the. Because every episode has been one to one. This would be like the creation of an entirely different show.

Cristina: What? I guess. No, it could still be ramblings.

Jack: No, no, because rambling is me and you.

Cristina: Yeah. Okay.

Jack: And this conversation is me and a guest.

Cristina: Yes. And this is a party.

Jack: And this is a party. This will be a whole other f****** thing.

Cristina: Yeah. So fun.

Jack: And if it works out, who knows? Maybe we'll do it again. Maybe we can figure out a schedule to get people regularly in.

Cristina: Yes. Awesome.

Jack: Yeah. Be badass.

Cristina: There will be a Woodsman.

Jack: There will be Woodsman. I mean, eventually, look, that show blows up, we get Millions and billions and trillions. And then Joe Rogan begs us to be on the show because it needs the exposure because we're making so much money. And Spotify fired him and hired us instead.

Jack: And, like, they took his hundred million dollars away and gave it to us. It's yours now.

Cristina: I don't think they can do that.

Jack: But okay, it doesn't matter, because now that's what happened.

Cristina: All right.

Jack: Gave us his hundred million. And that's awesome. And then he begs. He's like, I need the money. I gotta eat. Can you. Can I be on your show and exposure? And then my stand up will do better than my podcast will do better. And we're like, you want us to share our billion listeners, the most heard podcast in the galaxy?

Cristina: In the galaxy with you?

Jack: Yeah. The Colloquians are, like, hearing us all the time.

Cristina: Who?

Jack: Yeah, exactly. Them. And they're hearing us all.

Cristina: Can you say that word again?

Jack: I don't know what I said, but that alien race is actively listening. What was it? The collar?

Cristina: Something like that.

Jack: There are.

Cristina: Is that what the cockroach people are called?

Jack: No.

Cristina: Did you find out what they're called?

Jack: I don't know what they're called. I just called them cockroach people.

Cristina: Okay. Because if they're. Whatever you just said, then we have to know that that's what they're called and say it. And that sounds really hard because.

Jack: Yeah, because there's two letters there that don't go together, so it's really hard to announce. It's like a whole other language. Caligreans.

Cristina: It's horrible. Yes. They're not called out. Okay.

Jack: Yeah, yeah.

Cristina: That's what the cat people are called.

Jack: But that's some. It could be. Maybe the cat peoples are Caligreans.

Cristina: We need simpler names.

Jack: I mean, cat people in Cockroach, you were pretty simple.

Cristina: But it's not real names.

Jack: I mean, it's identifying labels that we understand. I guess it's like a stereotype. It works.

Cristina: Yeah. All right, so the show with Joe Rogan, we're gonna give him an episode.

Jack: We're gonna allow him to be one of the guests that we run experiments through. But eventually the show is gonna get so big that it's no longer gonna be experiments, and we're really gonna put them in the scenarios we're talking about. It's gonna start in front of a mic.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Just like it started when we first started. Just conversation.

Cristina: Become that show that he used. Factor. Yes. We're just. We're gonna remake Fear Factor. And he's gonna be the guest. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

Jack: That's gonna be great. It's gonna happen by accident. That's how this show happened.

Cristina: Right.

Jack: So we began it was just us hanging out. Then we got hired.

Cristina: Then we got hired. Oh, yeah.

Jack: Then we went on crazy adventures. Do crazy. Now we're gonna make a game show. We're gonna have them be on it. And it's just gonna be some fun questions. Fun.

Cristina: And then we're gonna take Joe Rogan and whatever spa.

Jack: And then we're gonna get so popular, we're gonna take Joe Rogan's spot. And then eventually we're gonna build an entire arena. Beast. What is it? The beast arena thing with the beast arena? The f****** parkour, like, ninja warrior.

Cristina: Oh, American Beast master.

Jack: Beast Master. It's gonna be like a giant Beastmaster size arena.

Cristina: What is it gonna be on Zombie island or.

Jack: Zombie Island? Yes. Ooh. Just keep filling that up.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Beast master size arena. And then we're gonna have all our scenarios really existing on there, and they're gonna have to go through them.

Cristina: Like hacking a robot.

Jack: Yeah. Oh. We could base everything on things that happened here. Oh, my God. You just gave us how we're gonna do the questions for the show. We can just go back to previous events that happened and see what everybody would do in my shoes.

Cristina: Okay, so, like, what would they do with the cockroach people?

Jack: Would they do the cockroach people?

Cristina: Probably not. Start a war. I wonder if everyone's like, no, just start a war.

Jack: We didn't try to start a war.

Cristina: You wanted to just murder them?

Jack: Yes, we freaked out. Murdered a couple of them. Then they started flying towards us and we were like, we gotta stop them. And then we destroyed their whole planet. But then that f***** up the whole system's gravitational pull and Planet X started plunging straight towards Earth. So we went ahead and we stole Mars from Universe 2, put that there.

Cristina: Then what happened to Planet X? Because it was already plunging towards us. Did it just stop?

Jack: Yes, it's just out there.

Cristina: Closer though.

Jack: It's closer, but whatever. It's where it's orbiting, just closer to the end.

Cristina: It's. Is it near Pluto? Is it somewhere we can see it? Is it like now Planet six or whatever? Like, it took that spot or whatever.

Jack: Yeah, it's probably between two other planets. Yeah, it was outside, now it's in the middle. For whatever reason, it didn't just keep plunging in. It's just like, oh, there's a planet. Okay, now I'm back In orbit, circling.

Cristina: The sun like all the other.

Jack: Which is weird that we took out one planet and it immediately stopped orbiting and just started going straight towards Earth. And then we put Mars back and it immediately stopped going towards Earth and then just went back to orbiting wherever it was.

Cristina: I think that planet's an alien.

Jack: That might be a giant. That might be the Death Star.

Cristina: Oh, crap. Why was it coming towards us? Why did it stop?

Jack: Cockroach people were protecting us this whole time. They are like the Vulcan. We got the Vulcans out of the way and then they were like, we're gonna f*** them up. But then we put it back and they don't know that the characters.

Cristina: Okay, interesting. We should go onto planet X though.

Jack: AKA the Death Star.

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: But like we call it a Death Star because it's just a giant spaceship. That's artificial planet thing. But like, obviously we're not gonna get there and f****** Darth Vader is gonna be on board. So who's on board the real Death Star? Is it gonna turn out to be like the Borg?

Cristina: Is it gonna be the Borg? No, I think it's gonna be something that's afraid of cockroaches. Like they're gonna be elephants.

Jack: Interesting. But elephants aren't scared of cockroaches.

Cristina: I know, but they're mice. Yeah. They're afraid of small things. I don't know.

Jack: Interesting, Interesting. I wonder what it'll be.

Cristina: It's a mouse.

Jack: A mouse wouldn't be scared of a cockroach. Mouse would wreck a cockroach.

Cristina: Oh, there's nothing afraid of cockroaches.

Jack: I'm sure there is. The answer is rabbits.

Cristina: Yes. Why do you call them cockroaches?

Jack: I don't know.

Cristina: They're called. It's spelled c***. Roach.

Jack: Yeah, it's spelled cockroach.

Cristina: But you're not saying cockroach, are you?

Jack: I never say cockroach.

Cristina: What do you say?

Jack: I say cockroach.

Cristina: It's so, so similar. I guess it doesn't really matter, but rabbits.

Jack: Rabbits on the Death Star.

Cristina: I think we could take them on if they do decide to attack us. If they don't find out. If they do find out, the roaches are gone. Okay, subhumans versus rabbits.

Jack: Alright, let's. Let's be real. It looks like aliens aren't really a thing. Minus the weird anomalies that we've seen, like the Chupacabra and things like that.

Cristina: Those aren't aliens. Those are also animals.

Jack: Not the interdimensional godlike ones that show up looking for ADRENOCHROME and s***.

Cristina: They were once upon a time, an animal.

Jack: Could be. We didn't establish that actually, but yeah. Like the shapeless one.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: But yeah, probably. If we follow the logic. It was probably some s***.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It seems like the whole planet and the whole star system and the whole galaxy are just animals.

Cristina: With adrenochrome.

Jack: Just animals. It looks like adrenochrome kind of runs the universe. Question is, are the rabbits also on adrenochrome?

Cristina: For sure.

Jack: You think the cat people are on adrenochrome? They're ancient, bro.

Cristina: I think that's what we'll find.

Jack: You think we're just gonna find that?

Cristina: They probably gave us adrenochrome, dude.

Jack: You think everything comes back to adrenochrome?

Cristina: Yes. The whole history of everything.

Jack: Because God started with adrenal, Started with the goal to get more adrenochrome.

Cristina: Exactly. It makes sense.

Jack: Back to the beginning, dude. All the way at the start.

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: Adrenochrome.

Cristina: Yeah. Like the Chupacabra. That doesn't. That's dimensional and giving us powers and whatever. It had to be something normal before adrenochrome came to its life.

Jack: Because it was working with adrenochrome.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: How did it exist before it found us? You know, it needed adrenochrome.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So chances are it got the adrenochrome first and then slowly changed to what it is.

Cristina: Yeah. And that weird other world. I forgot what it was called.

Jack: Universe 2.

Cristina: Is it universal where all the fairies and creatures live?

Jack: Oh, the. The Shadow Realm.

Cristina: The Shadow Realm. Those are just creatures with adrenochrome. Once you have adrenochrome, you can enter the Shadow Realm.

Jack: Yeah, but there's things that live there.

Cristina: Purely because they already had the. Yeah. They don't know.

Jack: Are things that are just born on that side that never came in contact with anything on this side. Those are. Okay, so we gotta ignore everything on this side. Those are more interesting. Everything over here works off of adrenochrome. Everything. The only place we've seen where that is. The exception is over there. Is that other realm. Interesting.

Cristina: But many things over there have taken adrenochrome. Yes, but you're saying not all of them.

Jack: Not all of them. There are things that are native to that side. Things over here take adrenochrome and move in that direction. That's also to assume we're not going to find God over here.

Cristina: Think we're going to find him over there.

Jack: We got to go to the shadow realm to find God.

Cristina: Or we can just wait for February 2nd, where he will show up in Philadelphia, in Pennsylvania.

Jack: What is it that happens? Right. What is it that happens when to bring something to this side, you need a lot of fear or a lot of death. And then something from the shadow realm becomes. The more of that there is, the more prominent it is on this side. Because they need that energy to manifest from the other side.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: God should, in theory, be on the other side. When does God most likely show and when are miracles most likely to happen? In times of extreme, extreme tragedy.

Jack: That's because God is on the other side. And during that February 2nd.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: What's happening is the fear of farmers hearing bad news and all their crops being is enough to manifest.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Jehovah.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: The worry, the fear, the scared of. I'm not gonna. This is gonna be bad news. That allows him to get grasp form. That's why they have to wait.

Cristina: Yeah. So people collect first.

Jack: Yeah, I guess. But the question is, will he stay on this side? We need to catch his physical form on the other side.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Because we can catch him here and then he'll just stay here.

Cristina: Yep. Yep. Okay. Yeah, we do have to. But I was thinking about the creatures. You said that they are always there.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: And never here. But I'm wondering if even though they might have. You know how I have to go back to us as humans. We might have been some creature before adrenochrome came to our ancestors. And then somehow we came to be. And what if that's their story? Like they might not have come here for adrenochrome, but maybe someone in their past.

Jack: So your argument is there's nothing native.

Cristina: No.

Jack: The Shadow Realm minus Adrenochrome is empty.

Cristina: Yes. Like, those are just babies of things that came here, came back over there, and then they're just stuck there because they're. They don't need it. Like their ancestor. Like we don't need it.

Jack: Problematic things like angels. And are we to assume angels are just also people who changed differently? Maybe the Neanderthals who took the f****** thing and then evolved to be these f****** things? What do we say about, like, reapers that are native to that realm?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Were they some other s*** on this side took it, went to that side and figured out they don't need it anymore? Are angels feral? Are reapers feral? Like, I don't know.

Cristina: It's complicated. I don't know.

Jack: So the problem is we didn't really investigate much into the Shadow Realm. We Got the surface data.

Cristina: So yeah, do more research.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Before we get in there, deep dive.

Jack: Into the Shadow Realm.

Cristina: Maybe we can go through Yu Gi oh to find out Yu Gi oh.

Jack: Has the, the, the cards that are sent that'll send our souls there or whatever the f***.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: How the f*** does that work?

Cristina: I don't know. The Shadow Realm is connected somehow to.

Jack: Yu Gi oh, bro.

Cristina: To Yu Gi oh.

Jack: Duel monsters.

Cristina: Yes. Are probably a lot like the monsters you would find in the shroud.

Jack: You tell me. I could find the blue eyes white dragon and a red eyes black dragon.

Cristina: You could find an angel maybe.

Jack: I mean maybe. Right. Like f*** it, like what's. Fair enough, fair enough. I mean every other bullshit that anybody's ever thought of turned out real. So like whatever. I guess there's probably a Red eyes black. That's badass. I could just catch. So that means like a pokeball is probably real.

Cristina: In the Shadow Realm.

Jack: In the Shadow Realm. We don't need to even invent one. We just need to find it. Yeah, maybe that's a lie. Maybe that was just a fantasy. But we can still invent it in theory and then go catch instead of. I mean it'd be cool to still have a wedge edge and a winningo, but like, I much rather have like a red eyes black dragon. That's hardcore. Or God, it's a stupid looking f****** groundhog. I don't really care much for God.

Cristina: But that'd be crazy. You throw a ball, he comes out, everyone's confused because it's just a groundhog.

Jack: But he has the power to destroy everything.

Cristina: Exactly. He just snaps his finger, they disappear.

Jack: And for whatever reason, the only power he doesn't have is the ability to defeat normal groundhog problems.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Including cages.

Cristina: Yes. So yeah, that sounds right.

Jack: Yeah. I think I'd rather have a Wendigo because could we build technology that could mind control God? He is still a demigod.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So like he's not impossible, but like.

Cristina: That'S why we need anything.

Jack: The huge problem here's problem, we need God to get to the cat people. The cat gods and their technology is then going to allow us to create tech to bring Wash God.

Cristina: Oh, it's.

Jack: We need one for the other no matter what.

Cristina: Yeah, okay. But we still have to understand their technology and whether it's actually technology or is it actual magic.

Jack: I mean, at this point it's probably just technology. It's completely possible. Adrenochrome got into the mix way long ago, created these hyper intelligent cat people. The Same way that later happened to us.

Cristina: And cockroach people.

Jack: Probably cockroach people. And apparently maybe just the theory, but the rabbit people inside the Death Star.

Cristina: Yes. I think this all. It checks out.

Jack: This checks out. Yeah. This is totally making sense. You know, all the pieces fall together.

Cristina: And so we gotta go into the.

Jack: Shadow Realm to get God. Interesting. Fascinating.

Cristina: Like, the person who's talking to Yu Gi. Oh, what is he? Is he an angel?

Jack: He is actually in the Shadow Realm, I think.

Cristina: Yeah, but what is he in the shadow Realm?

Jack: He's the spirit of a pharaoh.

Cristina: Dead people, man.

Jack: The Shadow Realm works a real way in that show, doesn't it? Yeah, he's the spirit of a guy who had, like, mystical powers.

Cristina: Ghosts can be in the shadow Realm?

Jack: Well, no. You're supposed to have taken adrenochrome so that when you die, you cross over to the shadow Realm. Oh.

Cristina: And he might have.

Jack: Okay, might have.

Cristina: We gotta go and check out that show then. Yes. I think that show will give us answers.

Jack: You think that show gives us answers? Yes, definitely. It would probably.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Tells us a lot. The fact that there was anybody in the shadow Realm and people were being sent to the shadow Realm and everybody had to participate in some sort of thing. A ritual of sorts.

Cristina: Exactly. You think they were drinking blood? I bet blood is involved.

Jack: I think blood is everything. Blood is life at this point.

Cristina: Yes. Yes. We're gonna find that out. We gotta rewatch Yu Gi. Oh, no, we don't. But we gotta research Yu Gi. Oh, for sure.

Jack: The weird thing is, which I don't understand. If Adrenochrome led apes to become humans. See, why does humans taking Adrenochrome not change us to something else?

Cristina: I thought they turned us into vampires or zombies.

Jack: It does. You're right.

Cristina: You got two results. I think zombies is if we stop taking it, and vampires if we continue taking it.

Jack: Interesting. Yeah, you're totally right. Which then brings up the next question. So we're a vampire. And we consume however much. So vampire is one of the milestones to becoming God.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So that there's no end. No, you'll continue to change.

Cristina: Yeah. Because that once you're a vampire, you have the ability to start transforming to other things.

Jack: I don't mean like shapeshift.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: I mean, like, how long does a vampire take Adrenochrome for before no longer a vampire.

Cristina: Oh, I don't know.

Jack: But. Because it looks like we can follow this line for everything.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Well, so we get a werewolf. Well, we get a wolf becomes werewolf. Becomes a win thingo or wet judge.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: You know, like there's a line and.

Cristina: Then it becomes something else eventually.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: There is in Shinto and what was the other? Not Native American spiritualism, but something similar to that where there are spirit beasts, giant animal, like God, like creatures that protect areas. That sounds like a God.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: That came through a animal.

Cristina: You don't know what that's from. How are you gonna do research on that?

Jack: No, I don't know. I could. I'll look it up.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: I know Shinto has a lot of that going on, spirit beasts and stuff like that. But I know that there's a specific belief system.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: That has, like, giant spirit animals guarding, like, the woods or the lakes and like that.

Cristina: That does sound like Shinto, though.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Okay. Yes.

Jack: Find that research, because that sounds like something that took a lot of adrenochrome. Never died to cross over, but kept taking adrenochrome and maybe transcended into the next thing.

Cristina: Yes, that could be it. Yep. Yep.

Jack: Which means God is where everything lands Long enough.

Cristina: Yeah. As long as they don't die.

Jack: As long as they don't die. It's just hard to live really long without some factor or another killing you.

Cristina: Or maybe even killing yourself. I don't know.

Jack: Or running out of a supply of adrenochrome.

Cristina: Or that. Yeah.

Jack: And then that making you feral.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: That sending you to madness.

Cristina: Yep. Yeah. There's so many different ways it can go.

Jack: Yeah. It's kind of crazy.

Cristina: Right. Then now we have two things we gotta check out.

Jack: Yeah. We gotta go look at the Shadow Realm and see if we can find Jehovah in his real home.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Should be some sort of similar looking, but oddly different location from his home over here when he does manifest.

Cristina: What do you mean?

Jack: The Shadow Realm looks like a copy of over here.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: But also not simultaneously. So it should. We will know where to go look in Shadow Realm.

Cristina: Yes. That place.

Jack: And then finding out what belief system it is that has these beasts that seem to just be godlike versions of normal animals.

Cristina: Mm. And in Yu Gi. Oh. Wasn't there angels?

Jack: No.

Cristina: There wasn't a card where the person looked like an angel.

Jack: Oh. I mean, the cards are.

Cristina: Yeah, that's what I mean.

Jack: There was kind of everything. It was like a sentient clock.

Cristina: Oh, okay. That's like Pokemon.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: I mean, all that s*** is weird. There's a bunch of. There's Dark Magician. Was he just a magician who crosses the Shadow Realm and now goes by dark?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: You know, maybe. Man, are those cards based on f****** real things?

Cristina: Yes. We gotta check that out. That's part of the research that we gotta check out.

Jack: That's fair. I'm down.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Anyways, we're running out of time and. Yeah. So hopefully we can get those things done. Go into shadow realm, find Jehovah, throw a party. Throw a party?

Cristina: Yeah. With all the different people. What with Dave and Ish.

Jack: Oh, yeah. That's further down the line. Precedent is taken. By going to shadow Room, finding Jehovah and finding out what belief system was talking about, what seems to be animals have transcended through a dream to come all the way to God levels. Yes, that's useful.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Hopefully also my voice heals so that I can talk normal. And next time I'll just make a subhuman deal with the f****** groundhog or whatever other f****** creature, because that's annoying and I can't talk.

Cristina: Well, that'd be crazy.

Jack: If another groundhog bites you, that'd be crazy. It has to be radioactive and, like, give me some power.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Oh, man. I want to dig. Cool.

Cristina: You dig with your teeth.

Jack: That'd be dope. Although I don't think they do that, but yeah. No, I want to dig. Awesome. Or stop biting me. Groundhogs. And I want to be a God, which is why we got to get God to bite me or whatever. But he's gonna first bite subhumans because.

Cristina: Let'S see what that to people who.

Jack: Have the best immune system in the universe. Anyways, if you guys like this conversation, other conversations like this, you could find them anywhere. You know, we have a bunch of stuff like that talking about God as a groundhog, actually how we got to the conclusion that he was a groundhog and all this. And originally when we were talking about groundhogs and adrenochrome in the Shadow Realm. And the Shadow Realm and the creatures from within the shadow Realm, there's a little bit of everything. We. We're building the big picture now. Yes, that's what we're doing. We're bringing all the separate pieces now. We're building the puzzle. If you guys want to find all that stuff, you can find it on the official website greatthoughts.info or on Apple podcasts or Spotify or anywhere you get your podcasts.

Cristina: And you can reach us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and TikTok at discount Vopod.

Jack: Yes. And also remember to subscribe and rate and review the show if you feel so inclined.

Cristina: And let someone who might like this show know about it?

Jack: Yes. Word of mouth is very important. And now you know that God is part of the shadow realm. Somebody might want to know that. Maybe you have some religious friends who are very in their religion, and you want them to know the truth. So you're gonna go every Sunday to their door, knock on the door and tell them, have you heard about Shadow Christ?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Do you want to let shadow Christ into your heart?

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: You can do that. All. All. All day, Every day.

Cristina: All day, Every day on Sunday.

Jack: All day, every day on Sunday. You knock on the door, be like, let shadow Christ into your heart.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And they're gonna close the door because they think you're trolling, and you're gonna be like, this is what it feels like. Stop showing up in my f****** house every Sunday. Hit him right back. We're hurt.

Cristina: This has been the Just Conversation podcast. Take nothing personal, and thanks for listening. Bye.

Jack: The other day, I was thinking. I don't know what the made me think about this, but I was thinking about painting where the roadrunner. So it's the roadrunner and Wile E. Coyote.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And Wile E. Coyote paints a replica of the mountains behind them.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And then he puts the painting in the way of the road so that the roadrunner slams into the painting that's painted on. No, it's a road.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: It's like a steel brick or a brick wall or something he made with the painting on it, thinking that thing is gonna run into the wall and knock itself out. But then it just runs up the road in the painting.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And then the coyote looks around at it, and he's like, what the f***? And then he tries to run into it and he just hits the brick.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: I'm like. And I'm like, that's kind of meta, not just. Not meta. It's weird. It's. They were thinking about this sort of psychedelic psychology long before that was normal.

Cristina: What do you mean?

Jack: It's like it's both reality and not.

Cristina: The roadrunner's reality isn't. What's it. The coyote's reality?

Jack: I mean, they share reality. I'm saying the. The distinction of the painting and the rest of the world. There's some sort of aspect there that's weird because he did run into the painting. And I'm like, what thought did the. Right. Did the creator have that the artist have when he came up with that? And how meta must you be thinking to imagine a drawing in which there's another drawing with a creature running into it from the first drawing. That's meta as f***.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: It's complicated. And that just makes it part of the story.

Cristina: That's very strange. He travels through. He's like a time traveler, in a way. Those things could be real places.

Jack: But here's the. Here's a point. Even if it's not, it's not. It could be a real place, but that itself is not. That's the coyote's rendering.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So that's not a location that exists anywhere but in the coyote's mind. So then the question is that the Roadrunner run into the coyote's mind? Well, not really. But like, this universe he made up became a real reality to the Roadrunner.

Cristina: Yes. Good morning. Good morning. The Just Conversation podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by great dots.info art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McCallister. With social media managed by Amber Black.

Rambling 97: The Nature of Evil

The Just Conversation Podcast, Evil, Scary, Corrupt, Demon, Ghost, Crime

What is evil? Have we ever witnessed it first hand? Could we find an example if we tried? Unpacking the nature of evil on this episode of Just Conversation.

Story:
Tired of the left/right swing of social politics consuming the world and blind comments by misguided and uninformed people panicked on social media because of news outlets and political points of view, the clone duo decide to deep dive on the nature of evil and find out if they could find proof of its existence or if the concept was entire made up.

Rambling 97: The Nature of Evil

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed

  • Defining Evil
  • Was Hitler Evil?
  • Is Thanos Evil?
  • Is Evil Possible?
  • Is Murder Inherently Evil?
  • Are Pedophiles Evil?
  • Evil Evolves
  • Evil Discovered
  • Examples of Evil
  • Can Nature Breed Evil?
  • Does Motivation Dictate Evil?
  • Is Jehovah Evil?
  • Plato’s Theory of Forms
  • Is Pure Good Possible?

l

None of This is Real Podcast

(Promo at the Start of the show)

Find them on:

Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/none-of-this-is-real/id1439588586

Instagram - @noneofthisisrealpodcast

l

Our Links

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod

Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod

Instagram - https://instagram.com/justconvopod