Rambling 289: The Neighborhood of Paradise

Where is Paradise? What is the history of this mysterious place? What is the true purpose of this hidden Neighborhood Town? The duo finally deep dive into the most mysterious neighborhood in the United States. Nearly impossible to locate, almost no information about it and the strangest circumstances surrounding the area around the neighborhood. The truth about this place will be revealed.

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed:

  • West Milford New Jersey
  • Secret Dirt Road
  • Google Maps
  • Private Residency
  • Public Records
  • Personal Accounts
  • Resources and Food
  • Extremely Strange Details

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+Transcript

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And this is the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas. And boy, oh, boy, our ideas can get quite, quite baffled today. There is so much baffling to happen, but this requires us to kind of unpack a little something that we've been dealing with lately. So in the previous episode, we were dealing with the Minotaur, a creature from Greek mythology, which turned out to just basically be some kind of freak show experiment.

Cristina: Two of them.

Jack: Two of them. The Toro Boban and the Minotaur, which are related and unrelated simultaneously, like they're brothers. Not the same thing. Although both creatures were discussed in mythology for God knows how long as one thing.

Cristina: That's pretty crazy.

Jack: Yes. Now, one of the things that we realized discussing these creatures was a pattern that we'd noticed before elsewhere, which was where these creatures were. The labyrinth.

Cristina: Labyrinth. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Jack: And the labyrinth is identical to a different location we're very familiar with, which is the house of this lady who was messing with ghosts and creating sort.

Cristina: Of made a labyrinth.

Jack: Yeah. Her house was a labyrinth. Slowly and meticulously built. She stopped contractors from coming in and assisting because she knew they couldn't figure it out. The way she needed it done was very specific. And so the labyrinth, although the construction of the labyrinth isn't specified, the purpose of the labyrinth is kind of clear. Opposite to the lady's house mansion, where the purpose of the labyrinth was not explained, but the construction. Yes. And we can assume one informs the other. We can assume that the labyrinth where the Toro Boban was was very meticulously built and that the purpose of the mansion being a maze was for the same reason that we're formed. The labyrinth is for that entrance, for the entrance at the center, the seance room and the entrance at the Minotaur Guards Y are one in the same, and, well, not literally one the same, but identical in use and purpose. And this was quite illuminating to find this pattern because it told us about the third location that we have maybe been looking in the wrong places this entire time.

Cristina: Somewhere in Clinton Road.

Jack: Somewhere in Clinton Road. Now, we've looked at the castle, we've brushed over Paradise Road. We've looked at the mines, we've looked at the woods, the bridge, the lake, and we just don't find what we're looking for.

Cristina: I mean, it could be in the mines. We have no idea.

Jack: It could totally be in the mines. But the mines are just connected to the castle.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it's all one somehow. And then the surface level, because again, the mines in the bottom of the castle are connected underground. And then the top layer is a jumbled mess of. You pop it in here. Come over there. You can see this over here. You can see that over there, a weird mess that kind of feels like the maze, but not exactly, because you're not popping in and out. You're not getting lost in this space and popping up in that space. Literally, you're seeing them. But there is a place that behaves like that that, again, we've brushed over, but never really focused on in great detail because the lady in white doesn't seem to be there. The boy doesn't seem to be there. It doesn't seem to be any particular experiments taking place there.

Cristina: But you hear children there, or at least your experience children.

Jack: Yes. And there's reports of that. Yes.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Which is not Paradise Road, but Paradise itself. The neighborhood town.

Cristina: An actual real town.

Jack: It's a neighborhood.

Cristina: Is. Yes. But, like, that's the. What you think is the hotspot. The.

Jack: I don't think it's a hotspot is what fits. Yeah, it fits the maze description. Because my personal experience in there was the roads were shifting. We took a straight line. We went on the dirt road named. We went on the road named paradise that became a dirt road and went into an indescript road that took us to Paradise. From paradise, we go in a straight line, no turns. We see houses to the left, woods to the right. We make it to what seems like the other end, do a K turn. So we're looking back where we started. Go in a straight line and don't find the exit.

Cristina: That is weird.

Jack: So a clean 180 back from where we came, except no longer was the dirt road. We came from there.

Cristina: That's such a crazy story, but has anyone experienced such a thing?

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: What? What? What? What?

Jack: Okay, Exactly. So let's unpack what we know about Paradise. So paradise is, as we know, located around Clinton Road in the West Milford, like, forest region.

Cristina: It's a small town in the forest.

Jack: It's a neighborhood that feels kind of like a town.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And the. I looked at this on Google Maps to kind of, like, try to zone in, and it's way specific. Now, in the Google Maps overview, you can't actually get a street view all the way through Paradise. Now, it goes as Follows Clinton Road, goes up the right side. You're just looking. You're looking at Google Maps right now. You got a square screen in front of you. To your right, Clinton Road is just going straight up. We're zoomed in, only on Paradise Road. So Clinton Road starts, and it just goes through the whole screen and keeps going. You don't see it. It's just the piece that you do see. And the beginning and ending out of your sight. Okay, Now, a random in the script road connects to Paradise. You can enter Paradise Road from another street elsewhere. Okay, Perfectly fine. And Paradise Road just kind of winds, goes around. It takes a nice little kind of left loop and then connects to a different town. Perfectly fine.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Now, between the left entrance of the town of the Paradise Road, the first, whatever the f*** the name of that road is that connects, there's an immediate neighborhood there and the bottom entrance. So to the left of your screen, you would have one entrance. It goes right, winds down the exit to the bottom. It's very small road. The exit to the bottom connects to two roads. The one that connects to Clinton, and again, just another part of a main road somewhere. Mm, the left entrance. You cannot do a street view starting there. Now, you can see that whole neighborhood there from the Google Maps top. It's a visible neighborhood. And if you were to drop your pin on that road to the left, even if you can't get a street view going through the street into the neighborhood, you can see the neighborhood from the street. You can drop the pin perfectly fine. The other end at the bottom of the screen, you could drop the pin there, and you can go on Paradise Road about halfway up before, in Google Maps, on the street view, it just turns into a dirt road. Suddenly you're just moving, and it's paved, paved, paved. And then the pave just kind of ends and fizzles out. And now it's just a dirt road.

Cristina: And that's what you remember, a dirt road. Right.

Jack: It's not the dirt road I remember specifically, but I'll get to that. Okay, but this road just becomes a dirt road suddenly. And you can't go farther with the street view. It stops right there. You cannot move farther beyond that point. Now, this gives you a bit of a loop, begins loops, connects to the other side. The loop area starts at the neighborhood, goes, and then connects to where it becomes paved again, that loop area, you cannot see it on Google Maps from Street View. You can only see the road from Google Maps skyview from the top down. Okay? The road that's in the script that connects to paradise comes out of that side you cannot see on the street view. Additionally, the road that connects cannot be seen from the sky view because it's covered by the forest. Oh, I looked for it and I couldn't find it. It doesn't exist. It's there.

Cristina: It's there underneath.

Jack: Underneath the trees. It's such a literal dirt road. It doesn't exist from the sky view. And Google Maps literally doesn't allow you to explore it. To explore it.

Cristina: Maybe it doesn't see it as a road though, because you said it's trees.

Jack: It's trees. Yeah. It's covered by trees.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Very weird.

Cristina: That is weird.

Jack: Very strange. Who the h*** knows? Okay, okay, here's the literal view I'm talking about. So for reference, down here is Clinton Road.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: This is Clinton Road all going up. This is the road that connects the Paradise Road. There's many different ways you can connect. A little neighborhood down there. You can also see there's a little.

Cristina: Neighborhood over here, what's considered Paradise Road.

Jack: This entire thing is Paradise Road. Okay, now, weird fact right here. If I were to grab a little thingy. Oh, I can't. I gotta zoom in a little more. Let me go in a little deeper. But you see that neighborhood right up there, Right? It's visible right here.

Cristina: Okay. Yeah.

Jack: Okay, now you see what's happening here?

Cristina: I'm not sure what's happening.

Jack: Oh, my God. Yeah, I can't drop the pin in the neighborhood. I can't.

Cristina: The line is. It has to be blue for you to drop it in. Is that what's happening?

Jack: Okay, yes. And if I go down to the other end, I can again show you. Interesting.

Cristina: No? Yeah. There's specific, but it sees it as a road.

Jack: So I can definitely knows and it sees it as a road.

Cristina: Yeah, but you can't go into those towns. There's some towns there that looks like you can't look at the road.

Jack: Yeah, sure. That's totally fine. What we're looking at is paradise and specific. There's many locations you can't look at. It's. Why is this the specific location we can't look at? And you see how it was paved at some point. You can see that it's paved underneath it, but it's slowly getting more dirt focused as we go.

Cristina: Eventually it just be there.

Jack: Eventually it's just going to be dirt. It just kind of fizzles out deeper and deeper. And it doesn't matter the dark distance we go slowly but surely we hit this very point where it just completely becomes rocks.

Cristina: Oh, yeah.

Jack: Oh, it's just. It's just rocks now.

Cristina: It's just rocks. Yeah.

Jack: And now I can't even go. It just became totally rocks that the street fizzled out and I can't go farther.

Cristina: That's it. That is weird.

Jack: Yep.

Cristina: But that's still the road.

Jack: That's still Paradise Road. They could have easily just driven. It's still a road. It's a drivable road. It's clearly drivable. Why did the Google Scanner driver not want to go there? Who told the Google scanner driver, don't go beyond this point? And how does this make any sense if the neighborhood on the other end is clearly a functioning, elaborate neighborhood and you can jump into that neighborhood as you saw previously? No.

Cristina: Oh, I saw in the bottom. I wasn't looking up there.

Jack: Well, I showed you that there's no way onto here before.

Cristina: Oh, okay. Except for that one road. You can't go onto the.

Jack: You can't enter the beginning of this road.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Weird, right?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Now this is Paradise Road we're looking at. Somewhere on Paradise Road is the access road to the neighborhood of Paradise. This isn't the neighborhood of Paradise.

Cristina: It's not?

Jack: No, it's not. That's just a random neighborhood.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The neighborhood of paradise was so cluttered by trees that every house within a two foot radius had a fully grown tree directly next to it, which means its roof would be totally covered by trees.

Cristina: So you're saying it's there, but it's not there. Like we can't see it.

Jack: I think we can. And I think that's this circular formation we're looking at here. You can see little spicks of white in a circular formation going on. It's there, but it's hidden. Hidden.

Cristina: That's scary.

Jack: It's visibly in front of our face. You think you can see this whole little area right here fully covered by trees?

Cristina: Yeah. Except there's something in there. Yeah. What?

Jack: And that would mean that the access road must be directly in the area that we can't see.

Cristina: Weird. And we can't even check it out.

Jack: We can't check it out. We can't look at it. We can't do anything without going there ourselves. It would be impossible. There's no other way to investigate. You have to go there.

Cristina: So it's not even like a town we go find, but it is a real town.

Jack: It's there.

Cristina: We can see it there.

Jack: We can see it nice and hidden. We can't Tell where the road begins and ends.

Jack: There's no way to spot the access point.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But it's there because they must be reaching the neighborhood up here somehow. But I remember it being just the. We were just teenagers exploring, and we're like, hey, sketchy dirt road. Let's go on it. And so we did, and we landed at this place. I couldn't tell you exactly where the road is.

Cristina: No.

Jack: But I know in which direction it's going.

Cristina: It's impossible. It's impossible to see, like, how. You had to be there.

Jack: You had to be there. You have to literally be driving this road in order to find it to begin with.

Cristina: It's just. It's not there.

Jack: Yeah. And that road has no name.

Cristina: That road has no name.

Jack: No. Yeah. This is Paradise Road. And Paradise Road leads us to the dirt road, which is somewhere hidden in the woods. No markings. Google doesn't even recognize it as a road. Yet there's still a neighborhood we can see, covered by trees. There is a way there.

Cristina: Weird.

Jack: Additionally, if you look at Paradise Road and you look at Clinton Road, they're about almost equal distances from the neighborhood. In fact, the bottom part of the neighborhood is probably equal. Literally equal distances to both sides. So there might be more than one road in. Unless paradise is the only way. But that means we can maybe drive across Clinton Road and spot in that direction of road. But I did that and didn't find anything.

Cristina: And you typed in Paradise Road and it doesn't pop up.

Jack: No. Paradise Road is this road. Oh, you type in Paradise Road and it'll show you this.

Cristina: Yeah, Paradise, I guess. Can you type in paradise, though?

Jack: No, it won't tell you where the neighborhood is.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Now you can find information about the neighborhood online. Not a lot.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But the neighborhood is definitely written about and exists, and people have seen it.

Cristina: Yes, but on Google Maps, it does.

Jack: Not exist on Google. Well, yeah, exactly. It tries by any means to pretend this clear formation here, this circular formation doesn't exist.

Cristina: Very strange. That is very strange.

Jack: But clearly. Obviously. Obviously. Come on, bro. Obviously. We're looking at houses stacked in the middle of this.

Cristina: What else could that be?

Jack: What else could that be? In a perfect little circle, too. Yeah, Perfect little circle going on.

Cristina: There's something weird happening in those trees.

Jack: With the largest patch being in the middle.

Cristina: Weird. That's the church. No, that's. That is so strange, because there's something in the woods. There's something in the woods. You can see there's things there, but you can't see what those things are, we can't investigate.

Jack: We have to literally be there in person. There's no way to like weird, weird.

Cristina: Did it have. I guess on Google they have pictures of the town. Is it like very foresty? Because that's ridiculous.

Jack: It looks like it's people's estimated photo. Like it's not really about the town. It might just be neighborhoods surrounding it.

Cristina: Yeah. It could be abandoned town for all I know. I don't understand.

Jack: Yeah, it could totally be an abandoned town. It's odd in general.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It's a weird view right here.

Cristina: Yes. Is it abandoned? Do you know that? Do you know?

Jack: I don't know what to tell you based on that. If it is, you'll find out as we go through it. But details about this hidden, private, rural as all h*** neighborhood, as we know, located in West Milford, New Jersey. What we just saw, it is tucked away off of the infamous Clinton Road. Very close. But you wouldn't find that considering the area. And the only access point is off of Paradise Road.

Cristina: Yeah, that is weird. Okay.

Jack: Which becomes a dirt road suddenly. Now it doesn't become an undrivable dirt road. Any car, as you saw, any car could easily drive that road.

Cristina: Yeah, it's still a road.

Jack: It's still a clearly clear road. It's a dirt road, but it's not. It's not even bumpy. It was just nice and smooth.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: It's just an unpaved, very smooth road. Any car could easily traverse it. Yeah. And on the other end, it's paved too. It just becomes paved again. It's really just going through this one patch that whoever decided we're gonna pave the road also decided we're gonna stop paving it right here.

Jack: Weird.

Cristina: There has to be reasons for that.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Yeah, super strange. You just decided out of nowhere we're just not gonna finish paving it. We're going to ignore that other neighborhood, not pave through it. And the entire. Just for whatever reason, we're not going to finish connecting it.

Cristina: That road is in itself some weird mystery. Something's happening on that road.

Jack: Strange, right?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Okay. So weird. It's so weird. It just becomes a dirt road that leads to a hard to find access road that we couldn't find from the top. And I know it was weird when we found the access road the first time. We're like, oh, weird dirt road. A legitimate dirt road that just goes where? Let's find out.

Cristina: Yeah, okay.

Jack: Strangest thing ever. So the road, the access road that comes off of paradise, it has no marking. So it's basically a nameless road. That's why we just refer to it by Paradise Road. Because Paradise Road is the only road connecting to it that has name.

Cristina: Okay. But it itself isn't really.

Jack: Yeah, we can assume. Yeah, it's just a random, like, connecting road, if anything. So really, the only way to the neighborhood is Paradise Road. And then this indescript, unnamed, hard to find other road.

Cristina: Mystery Road. Okay.

Jack: Yo, that's beautiful. Mystery Road.

Cristina: All right.

Jack: Interesting. Mystery Road can only be accessed through Paradise Road.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And additionally, Mystery Road is particularly difficult to locate at night because of its completely covered up nature. It's swallowed alive by the surrounding foliage.

Cristina: It's so strange that you even stumble upon it.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, it really is.

Cristina: Because your goal wasn't to go on to Paradise Road or anything. It was just.

Jack: It was just Clinton Road. And we were just trying to scare each other. And we found this other road, jumped on it, and then we somehow found this other. And then before long, we're in Paradise. Yeah, we do remember it. When we get into the neighborhood, there's a sign that says welcome to paradise. That we do remember. And then following that, sinuses beware deaf children. And somebody, you know, sketchly cross one out or whatever. Dead children. But that's really weird. Just getting to it is odd. Just seeing it is weird.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And like we just saw, you can follow it. You can follow paradise and it will not continue weird.

Cristina: But it's weird.

Jack: Suddenly becomes a dirt road weird. And that's less weird than the Google scanner. Just not driving it. Dude. So many dirt roads you have driven. This is the shortest patch ever of dirt road that you could possibly drive. It would have been the easiest job completion ever. It would have taken you three minutes.

Cristina: I don't know, maybe it wasn't. It didn't want to because, like, the. The places in a forest, like, even if they laid that out, you wouldn't see anything. You just have lines in the forest. Right in the Google search.

Jack: Well, no. Why. Why didn't he. Complete driving Paradise.

Cristina: Oh, paradise itself.

Jack: He didn't have to go off of Mystery Road. He could have just kept driving Paradise. It would have taken him three minutes.

Cristina: That's true.

Jack: There's nothing in the way. It's just a dirt road that connects right back to the rest of the town.

Cristina: Because you want us to see Mystery Road. I guess. I guess that's why I was. I don't know.

Jack: It seems like they're protecting that road. Right?

Cristina: Like, even if there's no Reason to go onto that road.

Jack: It's weird.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So definitely cannot be found without going there personally. Already the strangest part. Mm, weird. All right, next. It's primarily a residential area. Paradise Town, the neighborhood town. Now, it contains no business structures, no markets or anything of the sort. It's purely residential. People just live in there.

Cristina: Okay, that's a little weird, but I mean, it's not weird.

Jack: You're surrounded by mad neighborhoods with stores and stuff. And I'm sure a downtown area isn't not too far off. Yeah, it's very countryside where, you know, we all live over here, and I got to drive 20 minutes in the town to get to buy groceries or whatever the f***, you know, that kind of thing. So they kind of just live in there. And the roads of the neighborhood are paved. I remember that specifically. The roads inside the neighborhood are paved, which means people came to pave, stopping short on paradise just to block off that part of the dirt road.

Cristina: And that must be another spot that you enter the town through. Maybe.

Jack: Maybe. And then. But it's not Clinton Road, because I click through just following. There's not one moment in which a road goes left. There's nothing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And I looked carefully.

Cristina: Strange. Okay. I don't know what.

Jack: But the neighborhood is paved, Meaning somebody came to pave in the neighborhood and just close enough on paradise, but didn't finish paradise or Mystery Road.

Cristina: That is weird.

Jack: Weird pattern. Immediately reminds me of the lady who made the mansion where she let people do some parts, and it was like, no, get the h*** out. I got it. The specifics require me to finish these parts.

Cristina: Mmm.

Jack: Very reminiscent of that.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Of like, nah, I don't need your help anymore.

Cristina: Interesting.

Jack: Weird. Weird. Just looking at this stuff now, because of this nature, even if the neighborhood is paved and most of paradise is paved, it kind of makes the neighborhood exceptionally reclusive and exceptionally isolated from the rest of the world because you'd have to know where to find a dirt road.

Cristina: That's like, how do people even end up moving in there? Huh?

Jack: And another detail is that the primarily residential area has less than 50 homes total. Very small.

Cristina: Less than 50 homes. Wow. That's a small.

Jack: Tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny.

Cristina: It's not a town, though. It's. It's just a neighborhood.

Jack: It's just a neighborhood. But I will continue to call it a neighborhood town because of how removed it is. Yeah, it feels like a town.

Cristina: Yeah, it does.

Jack: Even if it's a neighborhood, it's weird. It's got already a weird vibe that makes it hard to describe in general, but it formed in the early 1950s.

Cristina: 1950S, that's when all that weird stuff was going.

Jack: That's when all the weird s*** was going down. Of course, for reference, I've got the timeline right up here, so we can focus on the things that happened around the 1950s. So leading into it, in 1950, 1952 specifically, was the first reports of the satanic rituals that were happening. 1955 is when the investigations were demanded by the mayor. Previous to that, 1939 was when the sketchy deal took place. So these are the events surrounding the formation of Paradise Road. Not Paradise Road, of the neighborhood of Paradise.

Cristina: Yeah, but who are those people? Where did they come from? Are they part of these cults? Are they part of the water park, whatever they're called?

Jack: Yeah, weird. Weird. Now, paradise formed in the early 1950s and is composed of residents with a tight knit generational like lineage, so that their families today, the people who live there today, they're related, have been primarily related. So this house belonged to my dad, that belonged to my grandma, and I've lived in this neighborhood always. People don't move in, people just live there.

Cristina: Strange.

Jack: People move out. Nobody moves in.

Cristina: But how did they get there? How did they get there? How?

Jack: At some point in the 1950s, they went in there.

Cristina: I know, but like, strange, strange.

Jack: So another weird part is that many of the residents have like lived there their entire lives. So they were born there and they just stay there until the day they die.

Cristina: But I wonder, like, where do they work? They're not there all day.

Jack: It's gonna get weird in a way that's gonna make it look that way. The entire surrounding area is covered by thick foliage, overgrown nature and unmaintained woods, as we've seen, making it impossible to see from any direction, even from on top. To locate through the dirt road, AKA Mystery Road and even access through Paradise Road. It's just invisible unless you know it's there. Yeah, the privacy of that is absurd.

Cristina: That is crazy.

Jack: It's just right there in the middle of New Jersey, invisible to the rest of the world.

Cristina: It's a mystery that you stumbled upon by mere chance.

Jack: Now, weird time based detail. The houses in paradise have extremely old designs, often appearing to be dated to the late 1800s design styles, with exception for a few that could be dated maybe to the 90s at the. At the latest.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So the late 1800s. Many of them look like they were built around that time. But that makes no sense considering the 1950s is when this neighborhood formed.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: With the most modern structures appearing to have been the designs of the 90s.

Cristina: That is weird, too. Like, why would they be.

Jack: So in the past 30 years, no advancement in the structures, which would make sense if you don't want to expand in the houses that are there. Just the houses that are there from now on, but still kind of chooses.

Cristina: To go back like that. Like 1800s.

Jack: Weird. Right.

Cristina: You're in the 1950s. You're not making 1950 styles or whatever is the end style.

Jack: Like, there are some houses that appear to be that, but the oldest structures appear to have a late 1800s kind of aesthetic.

Cristina: Weird.

Jack: Very strange. When we look at public records for this. Right. There is very few period that address the neighborhood of paradise specifically. There's no media mentions. There's no public events ever hosted, and there's no historical records. Private, private, private, private. It's also unclear whether all the residents of the neighborhood are American citizens or if they were just born and never registered. It's unknown how many people actually live in that neighborhood. Because people could have legitimately been born there, never registered, and they could just go to stores locally and stuff, and there'd be no reason for them to ever go into a hospital and, hey, I exist.

Cristina: That is. I don't know what.

Jack: And because we know people don't enter the neighborhood to audit.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Because nobody enters the neighborhood. It's unclear how many people actually live there.

Cristina: But it can't be many. Or can it be many?

Jack: Like 50 houses? If we assume three people per house. You got a lot of people already. That's 150 people.

Cristina: People move out, but people don't move in.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Is that true?

Jack: I don't know. We say multiple generations of people.

Cristina: Oh, yeah. They could just move into other homes that were abandoned.

Jack: No, abandoned home is if they just keep multiplying. We can't just assume extended families live in single houses.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So my grandma lives in the basement. My dad lives on the next floor. I got five kids myself. We all just overpopulated.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Weird.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: That's very strange that it's unclear how many people live there. It's theorized that many of the residents have been born and raised within the neighborhood of paradise and have not registered at a local hospital or city hall.

Cristina: But they don't, like, go to school either. Or at least unknown.

Jack: Maybe they have their own schooling, homeschooling. That could happen.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it basically just results in an impossible calculation. You can't tell how many people actually live in there. And I Have no say about this next part. But this has been claimed by people who have ventured through, which is that the residents aren't too kind to outsiders.

Cristina: But you didn't see anyone, so you wouldn't know.

Jack: I saw zero people.

Cristina: Except for the laughing.

Jack: Laughing that was on the way there. That was on Mystery Road.

Cristina: Oh, it could have been the people.

Jack: 100%. I saw nobody, though.

Cristina: That is strange.

Jack: We saw no one the whole time we were there. Not a soul.

Cristina: Well, people have seen people and they're just normal, un friendly people.

Jack: Unfriendly people say hi, they'll ignore people. That kind of stuff.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Now, the neighborhood is incredibly self sufficient. One of the stranger aspects of it is that it being purely residential. But rarely is anybody seen. Rarely. In fact, most of the claims of there being anybody weren't even about inside the neighborhood. It was from the few times that people have been seen leaving the neighborhood.

Cristina: Oh, my God. So no one goes in or if they have.

Jack: Nobody has seen anybody go in. People have only seen people come out and when they. Hey, can you tell me about the ignored? Hey, I'm kind of lost. Can you. Ignored.

Cristina: What is strange? People like their family. They're just. It sounds like, I guess what people picture, like hillbillies.

Jack: Yes, yes. It's very, very that. It feels like very like off in my area. But if you rarely see people coming in or out, where's the food coming from? Again, you'd assume they're going to the local stores. But nobody's seeing anybody coming in and out.

Cristina: No, but they're surrounded by woods.

Jack: They're surrounded by wood. Do you think they're hunting? I mean, I guess yes.

Cristina: They sound like those type of people. They sound like, yeah, they just live off the land and they live together as a close knit family.

Jack: Definitely has that vibe. Additionally, at the southern edge of the neighborhood, there is a barn.

Cristina: There is a barn.

Jack: So they could be growing their own food.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And hunting for the rest of it and growing the rest in the woods.

Cristina: They have seen people leaving.

Jack: They have seen people leaving. Nobody has ever seen somebody going in shopping. They could be shopping. Hundred percent. And if that's such a small number of people, then one person with a pickup can fill the pickup up with enough groceries, go in and not have to come out for a while. Mm, Totally solvable problem. But the barn would also fix it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And the fact that they're surrounded by so much thick foliage and woods will also fix it. They could just grow things in the woods. And that also means you could Just hunt the deer and hunt or whatever that's in there.

Cristina: Yeah. We can't even check if any of these guys have a job or anything possible. Yeah.

Jack: We know nothing about them. Right there in the middle.

Cristina: Just hidden. They're all just hidden.

Jack: Just hidden. Weird.

Cristina: That is very strange what is happening.

Jack: There now while the southern edge of the neighborhood has the barn, it gets weirder because it appears that there's a city hall like structure to the northern edge. City hall, they have a meeting point where there's governance or it would seem interesting.

Cristina: So they don't have. If they do have jobs there. No one really knows.

Jack: Nobody really knows.

Cristina: They might just have like a little society there.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: They're policing their streets, they're nursing their people there.

Jack: It could all just be. It's consistently described by outsiders as a self sustained and self efficient neighborhood. They don't require the outside world. Very odd. Now what's weirder about this is that you are in one of the most spoken of places in the entire country, yet you yourself are unknown. The castle. Everybody knows about the mines. Everybody knows about the road. Everybody knows about the lake. Everybody knows about. You're surrounded by all this s*** and nobody knows about you. That's the weirdest part about this.

Cristina: That is so weird. But they're so hidden. They're so hidden.

Jack: They are so. But this many people coming through all the time, you would think a lot of people go through that road. So why don't people going through that road consistently find Mystery Road and just explore? There should just be so many cases of, you know, people trying to scare each other or in the daylight, truly exploring. Let's go in the morning so we have the most amount of time before nightfall and we can truly get a look at everything out here.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: That would mean there's only three roads all of Clinton, top to bottom, 10 miles, no lights, no turns. That's one straight shot. You explored that. It took you no time.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Then you got the one turn into Paradise Road and you could travel all of Paradise Road. It would take you all of 10 minutes. And then in that time, how many people would find Mystery Road? It would be a f****** clusterfuck of people consistently finding Mystery Road and exploring that side too.

Cristina: Well, they only go there at night, so maybe it's harder to see.

Jack: I'm sure people go there in the daylight.

Cristina: I know, but just not the same number.

Jack: No, not the same number, but probably a s*** storm of people still. A f*** ton of people probably still go there during the daylight because they're too scared to go there at night. Okay, so where are these excessive numbers of stories? We have so few mentions, there's almost nothing on it. I checked everything.

Cristina: Like how do you keep people. But they're so hidden. They're so well hidden.

Jack: You'd find the road if you're navigating. If you just decided the complete driving on Paradise Road, you would find Mystery Road. Presumably. Unless it's so invisible that you don't even realize it exists. Driving right by it. But we found it.

Cristina: Yes, he found it. I don't know. That's a. That's a mystery itself. I don't know.

Jack: Well, I'll give you the next weird part. Mystery Road people have only ever seen people leaving it at night. Every single report was about night. Nobody has ever even reported seeing Mystery Road in the daytime.

Cristina: So you think Mystery Road doesn't exist in the daytime? I don't know.

Jack: I don't know. It's just. That's a really weird detail. Yeah, because now we're at a category I just called the Fringe.

Cristina: It's.

Jack: These are reports from non residential people that are.

Cristina: That stumble upon Mystery Road.

Jack: To stumble upon Mystery Road. Nobody has ever reported seeing something and it be daylight.

Cristina: It's at night.

Jack: They've only seen people leaving the road at night. If they are seeing the road during the daylight, they're just ignoring it because they don't see anybody coming in around.

Cristina: That could be. That could be.

Jack: Could totally be. But all the mentions of somebody coming out happen at night.

Cristina: Why just that night.

Jack: And nobody claims they've seen anybody go in.

Cristina: And you were there at night and.

Jack: I was there at night. Stumbled by accident onto Mystery Road. It was so obviously there.

Cristina: But you didn't stumble upon anyone. I mean, you did, but not on.

Jack: Not on Mystery Road. It wasn't even Paradise.

Cristina: Paradise. Maybe he came from that place.

Jack: Well, the. A consistent mention on Paradise Road. I didn't experience this and I didn't even know this was happening until I found it. Is that robed and cloaked men have been seen not coming in or out, but wandering around Mystery Road. Like the entrance of Paradise Road to Mystery Road, but also only at night. Which would see exactly what I saw on Clinton Road.

Cristina: They have to live there. They live there. It's a town of cults.

Jack: It sounds like a cult right off the bat.

Cristina: There's a cult lives inside the woods.

Jack: Yeah, checks out. Reminds me of. What was that movie? The movie. Just like that. Whatever. Some movie about them people living in the woods. Hate enough I mean, there's probably crap ton of societies like that too. Just f*** society.

Cristina: We just gotta come over here. That's crazy.

Jack: Weird. But that also explains them being not friendly. Because it's like, you don't belong here. You're in the wrong part of the woods, kid.

Cristina: That guy that you saw, he wasn't like. It wasn't like he was unfriendly. He didn't even like seem to know you existed or did he respond to you?

Jack: Did not acknowledge that we were even present. Didn't look in our direction, no nothing. He kept moving like we weren't there.

Cristina: I mean, that could be seen as unfriendly to other people. Like, it could be that they see something, some guy, and the guy does.

Jack: You know, ignores their existence.

Cristina: Yeah. And then they're like, oh, he's unfriendly.

Jack: It could totally be.

Cristina: It could totally be something like that.

Jack: Some of the reports are that they're just asking for directions and the people completely ignore them. But then this, this has a very, very reminiscent thing to it. What if they literally can't see you? What if they literally have no idea you're there and that's why they're ignoring you?

Cristina: What is that? Would that mean they come from a different time? The houses are 1800s.

Jack: There's something weird.

Cristina: There's something weird happening there.

Jack: Weird. Weird.

Cristina: This has to do with time travel. I don't know what is happening, but.

Jack: If it's time travel, they can still see you. They're just coming from a different time. You go in and you're somewhere else.

Cristina: But like a time bubble, you're seeing into the past.

Jack: Why can you walk where they are? You shouldn't be able to. You would just cross through. Every time bubble is like that. You just cross through. You're on the other side now. Usually they're in weird positions that you'd have to specifically navigate through. But we're talking. You've seen people come out and then you go in that same direction.

Cristina: Nothing happens.

Jack: Nothing happens. Weird.

Cristina: That is weird.

Jack: Now, other reports by people. The roads in the neighborhood. People have gone into paradise. Neighborhood. The roads and homes seem to change positions. I saw the roads change positions. I think our panic didn't allow us to pay attention to the houses. These people have claimed they've seen the same house twice. Driving in a straight line. Identical.

Cristina: Spooky. That's very spooky.

Jack: Yes. That the houses change consistently.

Cristina: The town is haunted. What is happening? It's not a real town or it's a real town. I don't know.

Jack: I don't know. And people have claimed to this site. Can I can definitely speak to this one. People have claimed to have found themselves trapped, driving in circles, unable to find the access road, AKA Mystery Road. Sometimes for several hours. In this small area. Yeah.

Cristina: That is. That is so scary. For some hours.

Jack: Hours. Trying to find the access road. Panicking. Not knowing. And what the f***. It was there the whole time. Maybe it wasn't.

Cristina: Maybe it wasn't. How is the whole place moving? Is it really there? But it looks like it's there. I don't know. And there's people. But are those people really there? They're not even.

Jack: Next point. Nobody who's entered the town has ever seen a person in it. Nobody has ever reported seeing a person after they've gone through Mystery Road into the neighborhood. They've never once seen anyone. Ever. No one has ever seen anybody in paradise.

Cristina: It's a ghost town. It's a ghost town. Maybe. I don't know. No. No. Yes. Maybe. I don't know.

Jack: That's so strange. Nobody has ever seen anyone ever.

Cristina: Never. Never outside of it.

Jack: Just outside of it.

Cristina: And those people don't even see you.

Jack: Those people ignore you like you don't exist.

Cristina: And they're dressed so old fashioned and they sometimes fashion home.

Jack: No. Some people come out in pickups and they'll just ignore you. But they have seen roped people not going in or out. The people they've seen coming out, just normal looking people who are ignoring the out of you. The people hanging around the outside who aren't coming in or out. Robed and cloaked individuals.

Cristina: What is happening? Okay. There was a guy in the pickup though.

Jack: Yeah. They've seen cars come out. People have asked for directions. No response. They'll just ignore you.

Cristina: What?

Jack: They won't even acknowledge that they're there.

Cristina: Just so it's not a ghost town or is it a ghost town? I don't know. Why is it moving around?

Jack: Which I can talk to the roads moving around. I. We did not. We were too young and too panicked after everything. After we lost Mystery Road.

Cristina: Yeah. You didn't even notice if any move. If any homes moved. You would not notice.

Jack: Crap. I can tell you for a fact Mystery Road moved.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Because we saw it on the other side of the town.

Cristina: And even though you don't see people in the town, the lights are off. Like there's no lights. There's street lights. At least.

Jack: We saw no light. I remember that so specifically. The only lights we saw the Entire were coming from the car's headlights. Everything we saw was shined through that. Not a single light. That's also another note. Nobody has ever seen lights or electricity or anything. Nothing. Always dark. Only your car lights shine it. It's almost exactly like Clinton Road. Not one light.

Cristina: I don't know then this might be like that. The castle where people just go to do rituals or whatever.

Jack: Except the houses don't look worn down. Everything is maintained.

Cristina: There's paved roads, but no one's there.

Jack: But nobody has ever seen a single person in the neighborhood.

Cristina: Is it just for show what is happening?

Jack: But that's crazy. Nobody has seen a single person ever. I found that so strange. You've seen people come out, but you've never seen one soul inside.

Cristina: That is very strange. What's happening? Is it. I don't know if it's ghost related or not. Is.

Jack: I don't know either. I just like reading about this and really doing some research on this. The. The visual of Mystery Road just vanishing is so clear to me. Straight line. We do a 180 drive right back where we came from. The road isn't there. We take a right because there's nowhere else to go. The road just kind of. We were on the. There was only woods to one side and the houses to the other side. So you turn around. Now the woods are to your right. And eventually you hit the point where you have to take a right.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And then we're wandering maybe 10 minutes. And nowhere where we came in through do we find Mystery Road. Total opposite side. I would argue it's literally across. Not even in front or to the side of it. It was literally across. If we came in through Paradise Road to the bottom, this road would have in theory been facing Clinton Road. Except we took it and came out back to paradise.

Cristina: Who made this? What is this? It's a maze in the woods. It's huge. It's a huge maze.

Jack: Less than 50,000. It's not even a huge maze. It's tiny. It's just impossible to navigate.

Cristina: Yeah. How does it do what it it's doing? What's the explanation to that?

Jack: It is very complicated. I don't know what the h*** is happening. I have no. Definitely worth. It was worth looking at this because of what the h***.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Now all of that. And it's not even the weirdest part. None of that. None of that is the weirdest part. The fringe category is not the category that comes next called the strangest. So the weirdest part of Paradise Road is None of the above mentioned, but rather the one most striking important coincidence. At the very center of the neighborhood, there's a church. In the center, at the very center of the neighborhood, there's a church.

Cristina: That church is a portal. I don't know what's happening.

Jack: Oh, and the church appears to be at the center. Regardless of how you travel it, of how you travel it or what, shift or whatever, it doesn't matter how anything else changes.

Cristina: Mayhem should go in that church. Did you see it? Do you remember church?

Jack: I do not remember seeing the church. I don't remember paying too much attention to the structures at all. Yeah, we were in a state of panic. We were just trying to scare each other and having fun until the road vanished. And then it was like, oh, f***. And then the car stopped turning on at that moment too. We panicked for a moment, tried to turn it on. The car didn't turn on. Then it finally did after a couple of moments of messing with it. And it's a car that's in perfect condition always. And that's never happened before.

Cristina: Yeah. So what's the description of the church, though?

Jack: The church, it appears to be a late 1800s design. The church has zero windows and zero entrances other than the front entrance. So you cannot see into it, you cannot see lights, you cannot see anything. There's no way to look inside. Triangular roof, boxy shape, and a front pillar with a cross. The end. Yeah, very old school. Nothing else going on.

Cristina: I don't know. This place doesn't sound real. It feels like it's a staged. A staged thing, like, I don't know, it doesn't seem like people really live there. It's just for show.

Jack: So who the h*** is coming out? Why are there people who look like they live there coming out?

Cristina: Hmm?

Jack: Who are these weirdos hanging around the entrance?

Cristina: Well, we don't know if they live there. It doesn't seem like anyone lives there. If they're. They're going there for something, I don't think it's for living there. I don't think anyone lives there.

Jack: Weird, right?

Cristina: It's for sure to hide whatever they're actually doing there. Whatever that's used for, there's something that's being used for.

Jack: Most people have never seen the church, though. Really? Some people have. Most people haven't. People who've been there. The majority of them have never seen it. I'm among the people who've never seen it.

Cristina: Yes, but everyone that has, it's been in the same exact.

Jack: Presumably the people who've been lost there for hours.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Because it's really f****** difficult to get to the center if everything is continuously changing and throwing you back out to the edges.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: If everything is always throwing you to the edges, getting to the center must be so f****** complicated. And like we saw in Google Maps, it's not even that big. A couple of houses, maybe. How the h*** can you find it so difficult to get to the middle?

Cristina: I don't know. That's strange.

Jack: The changing and shifting keeps spitting you out, always to the edge.

Cristina: It doesn't want you to get there.

Jack: They just want you to reach it. And a few people who have have no idea to know what the h***'s inside. It's just a church. An old abandoned church. Except the church, by the accounts of the people who've seen it, is the most kept. Well location in the entire neighborhood. It looks old, but it has the freshest paint job. The land around it is the most clean.

Cristina: So most likely that's the important thing. That's what people are. The people that know, the people that actually travel there. That's where they're going. Going to that church. They're dressed like it. It makes sense. I don't know.

Jack: Yeah. It's the best maintained structure. And its design is the oldest. Simultaneously and additionally. Additionally. Nobody has ever seen the road during the daytime. Mystery Road. Which means nobody has ever driven through Paradise Road. I mean, paradise neighborhood during the daytime. Nobody's ever navigated the town during the day, which means they've only ever seen the church at night.

Cristina: Yeah. Which mean it could be they. Those people could be using it at the daytime when no one's there.

Jack: Nobody can get there.

Cristina: No one can get there.

Jack: The neighborhood is just inaccessible. But then what the h*** happens to Mystery Road? It should be more visible during the day. Mystery Road should be most visible during the day. I don't know.

Cristina: That's weird. It's a lot of witchy stuff. I don't know yet.

Jack: Nobody has ever seen the road during the day. They've only ever seen the road at night, which means they've only ever seen people come out of it at night, which means they've only ever driven at night. And people have only ever been in paradise at night. Nobody has ever driven in paradise during the daytime. Nobody has any idea what that would look like.

Cristina: That's probably where things happen. Is probably during the daytime.

Jack: Weird, man.

Cristina: And like, we're. We. There's no. It's impossible to know, though. Unless we go.

Jack: We gotta go there personally. Go and we would have to go during the day.

Cristina: But then who knows? Maybe it will be missing.

Jack: There will be nothing, we'll see nothing. We'll go there and have wasted our time because there's nothing. Which means we have to go at night. That would be the only way. But honestly, that's the time I would want to go there at least. Yeah, we need a big group of people. Cameras and everything. Record every moment of it. 20 people. We're all going. Caravan of cars.

Cristina: Yes. We gotta go into that church. What's happening in that church? Yeah, people in robes. Obviously the church is being used for something, right?

Jack: Yeah, that. Total. Total connection. Total connection. People in robes. The church being the most maintained upkept place. But the houses are well kept too.

Cristina: There's no lights anywhere. There's no lights anywhere. But there's no lights on the church here.

Jack: There's no lights on the church either. There's no lights anywhere. Zero seeming electricity. Yeah, but again, some of the houses look like they were built in the 90s. Electricity definitely happened. No power lines.

Cristina: I don't know. But I don't think that's a real town. I don't think it's a family generated generations of family living there. I think it's the generations of cult leaders living there.

Jack: You think the whole neighborhood is of cults? Is of one cult. Yeah, but that would mean they live there.

Cristina: I don't. I don't know. I don't think they live there.

Jack: So what the h*** would be the point of building these houses?

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: Especially if nobody can enter.

Cristina: I don't know. The whole thing is very strange.

Jack: It's really weird.

Cristina: It's really weird. Do they live there? Because like no one's. There's no proof that they do live there.

Jack: There's no proof that anybody has ever been there other than the people driving through.

Cristina: Yeah. We just know that we see cult members all over everywhere else around this spot. Yes, everywhere.

Jack: Everywhere. Even completely off of Paradise Road. That's where I saw it.

Cristina: Clinton Road is covered. The whole woods area is covered. The castle is covered. Like where are they not?

Jack: My bet would be they actually do live there. Whatever cult performs rituals at the castle lives in Paradise. I think paradise is the residential area for the cult, for the people who do whatever in that whole thing. And I would argue that so is the entrance to what's left of the castle. And it's probably in that church.

Cristina: Is this what Silent Hill is based on?

Jack: I don't know. But I bet the entrance to the castles to not even the castle.

Cristina: To the mines, to the mine.

Jack: The secret entrance to the mines is probably in that church. I bet that it's there. If it's not there, it's in a random indescript location. And they are the only ones who know exactly where it is. Probably a manhole cover in the middle of nowhere, covered by leaves. And you gotta like know exactly where it is to even find it.

Cristina: But it's as possible that it's in the town.

Jack: It's as possible that it's right there and that that's why it's the hardest thing to find. People can't even get to the church. Nine times out of ten just wandering lost. People don't even see a church. I never saw a church. There's a s***. We were lost for like 10 minutes. That town is not a 10 minute drive. But we never saw the center of that town. I know we tried to go through the center of the town. I guess we never really noticed that we never got to the center of the town. Now thinking in hindsight, how the h*** were we always on the edge of the town? That's weird. I never thought about that. We were always on the edge of the town and we took turns in every direction but we were always at the edge of the town. Even driving in, we would just come out to the other edge. I guess. It just obviously such a small town. You don't question it. You're just like, oh yeah, obviously I just got to the other side already. But I never saw a church. And I would have sworn to you I went through the center of the town.

Cristina: I wonder. Like there must be a secret path to get there then.

Jack: Like a combination of roads.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And that all the other roads essentially just kind of fling you around it so you don't ever mm. Get there.

Cristina: Yeah. Like if you try to not get to the center, I bet you're more likely to find the center or something.

Jack: There's probably exactly one turn you would take that would then take you to a series of other ones. And you got to take exactly one of those turns because they would spit you out. And then again you have to take specifically one other turn. So just a series of only this one, only that one. And they would take you there. Which means people have found it by total accident.

Cristina: Yes. Which is has to be the case. Yeah.

Jack: And then the structure of the houses have been intentionally built to be identical to one another to be extra confusing so that you don't know where you are at any given Moment because you're not familiar with the town.

Cristina: That's true. Like you could be looking. People think they're seeing that same house again. But it could just be that whoever made that town made it really identical. Yeah.

Jack: It's meant to confuse you as you're going through it.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So, man, did I just pass and it's the same number. Maybe not. Maybe it's literally just. I mean, it's literally the same number, but it's not the same house. It was just meant to look that way to f*** with your head.

Cristina: Yes. Okay. That makes way more sense. It's not a ghost town. It's not. It's. There's a reason. It's an actual maze.

Jack: It's an actual maze. And if that's the case, in the center is either the entrance to the mines, the real entrance to the mines. Which means the people from this town can actually sneak into anyone's house through the underground tunnels. All the other five towns are at the mercy of this one neighborhood. Or it's not that. And this is a literal maze designed as a channeling location. And that church is as we would call the entrance.

Cristina: It could be both. Like, it's so weird. It's so weird that I can imagine that it's both.

Jack: Could totally be. It could totally. Like the top floor has the, quote, entrance to coming into the church. And the. Somewhere, you know, you go down a couple of stairs, a spiral staircase or some nonsense. And you get to the entrance to the mines.

Cristina: Yes. He's like, why were they hanging out that church? It's. It's because that's. They know about that. The mines. I think they know about the mines. I don't think it was about the church at all.

Jack: It's probably the people who've controlled the mines this entire time. Which means they would have. It's not just the neighborhood. It's the entire network of tunnels underneath and not just the entire net. Who knows how much other crap exists underground. We've had 70 years to continue excavating and building homes underground and building other things on top of the fact that we know about the one that is underneath where the castle was particularly large. Entire chambers. Rooms bigger than the neighborhood itself. The entire grounds underneath the castle are bigger than the neighborhood itself. So you could fit everybody who lives in the neighborhood. Assuming this is the case, you could have 20 times the amount of people that could live in the neighborhood living underground.

Cristina: Very strange. Very strange. What is this cult doing? Whoa.

Jack: Unless they're not even living underground. There's Way more complicated crap happening down there. We do have Clinton Road being the most supernatural place on planet Earth. There's nothing more supernatural.

Cristina: Paradise is more supernatural. And it's such a secret that we wouldn't even know.

Jack: We wouldn't even know. No stories, no nothing. Can't even find it.

Cristina: Yeah. What's happening? How does Mystery Road. Mystery Road, not a road. I don't know.

Jack: Mystery Road doesn't exist. Paradise has no people.

Cristina: But they're all connected. It's all connected.

Jack: It's all one thing somehow.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: I couldn't tell you how. There's not enough information. But it's all one thing somehow.

Cristina: I wish we could learn something about this cult. There's no name on it. No guesses.

Jack: Nope. People have no idea. The closest they got was referring to them as Druids.

Cristina: Druids.

Jack: And then changing that name to satanic cults.

Cristina: Okay. And the kkk.

Jack: And the kkk. All of that. Yeah. That's which. None of the above. The closest would be the Druids.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: If anything, Druids is what we'll call them because of how weird this is. The KKK doesn't have powers, bro.

Cristina: The h*** out of here.

Jack: Unless. The original purpose of the KKK was in order to create stones. Which would make sense of the sacrifices.

Cristina: Well, now we gotta go look into the kkk, I guess. I don't know. See the history.

Jack: That's all I got. That's all I managed to find about the town. I will call it.

Cristina: It's the town.

Jack: Neighborhood Town is why I was calling it Neighborhood Town. It totally checks out.

Cristina: Right?

Jack: The neighborhood town called Paradise.

Cristina: It's a mystery itself. It's a mystery. A mystery road leads to a mysterious town.

Jack: And the mysterious town is a maze in itself that nobody has ever been seen inside. Ever. Nobody has ever seen somebody in there at least seen it and reported it?

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: If they have, they never talked about it. Which tells us way more information. You saw it and never talked about it. Where are you then? Did you see somebody and then never made it out?

Cristina: Yes. That would be the other option.

Jack: That'll be the other option. Maybe you have seen people, which we.

Cristina: Know many people disappear.

Jack: Many people disappear. Many hundreds.

Cristina: Is this part of what's going on with that?

Jack: It's 100%. It's possible that every single person that went missing along Clinton Road actually went there. It's absolutely possible that's the case. Every single person that went missing found this road and never came out.

Cristina: They saw something they weren't supposed to.

Jack: See or someone, I guess don't find it during the daytime, buddy. That seems to be the case. If you see somebody there, you're. That could be the case.

Cristina: That could be. They don't do anything outside. They don't do anything.

Jack: I saw. Dude, just ignore me. Just ignore all of us.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Didn't react, didn't respond. No, nothing. We just weren't there to him.

Cristina: And he was hunting. Which fits. If they're all just living in.

Jack: Because of the deer.

Cristina: Yeah. That just goes with the whole. They're living there. They just live there.

Jack: Self sustained.

Cristina: Yep.

Jack: Interesting. But that's all I got. That's all I got. That's all it is. Weird. Strange. Oddest place ever. Definitely fits the character of every weird other that's going on there. And definitely seems to be at least related to the center of what's happening.

Cristina: Yes. These entrances, they're all. They all have this whatever mystery thing going on. This mazes and puzzles and something patterns. All of it just very similar looking.

Jack: All three instances. The mansion, the labyrinth and the town.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: All the complicated maze that could throw you anywhere and are all impossible to navigate and all have the entrance at the center.

Cristina: Yeah. If you have a far away. They look completely different but you zoom in, it's the same thing.

Jack: And on Google Maps we can clearly see a circular formation. We can see the very little bit.

Cristina: Of roof tips of the roots or something.

Jack: Yeah. Through the trees, it's very little. And then the big one in the.

Cristina: Middle, which is probably the church.

Jack: It's probably a church. Weird.

Cristina: Weird.

Jack: Anyways, anybody who has any kind of information related to this, please either the.

Cristina: Mystery Road or Paradise Road.

Jack: Mystery Road. Paradise Road or Paradise, the neighborhood town. If you have any information on any of this, please feel free to contact us and tell us about it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: If you live there and all of this is bullshit and the Internet is making it up. Yes, reach out. Tell us about your neighborhood. Yeah, tell us about your neighborhood. We're curious and yeah, you could do that on our socials. That's at just convopad. On Twitter, on Instagram, on Facebook, on TikTok.

Cristina: Remember to subscribe, rate and review the show.

Jack: Yes. Word of mouth is a really overpowered thing and if you want. If maybe you know people who are into this and can inform us, tell that person to listen.

Cristina: Yes. And hopefully they'll hear us asking them to contact us. And they'll contact us. Who knows? Yes, contact us, please.

Jack: Yes, tell us.

Cristina: This has been the Rambling podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Bye. S.A. good morning. Good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by great dots.info art by 0lupo and logo by Seth McAllister, with social media managed by Amber Black.

Rambling 284: Sketchy Deal

Who is the Boy boy by the Bridge? What is the Clinton Furnace? And who owns the area? The duo continue deep diving into the records of Clinton Road and its surrounding forest in an attempt to discover the origin of the Spacetime Distortions in the area. What’s uncovered is both shocking and exceptionally strange and mysterious. What does it mean? Anyone’s guess. Join us and find out what our duo uncover!

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed:

  • Boy by the Bridge
  • The Lady in White
  • Clinton Furnace
  • Newark Watershed Organization
  • Mysterious Contracts

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod

Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod

Instagram - https://instagram.com/justconvopod


+Transcription

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And this is the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas. And so let's do a quick recap for anybody who is new and anybody who needs the recap that might have missed a couple of episodes. We totally got off the Elysians because we loot. You're using all of their awesome knowledge to find weird things current day instead of keep digging infinitely into the past. And boy, have we found some s***. So for anybody not aware using current day, I mean, using the knowledge we acquired from the past, we've looked at a couple of different things, including some ancient structures like Stonehenge. And we looked at the comparison. Yes. We looked at mysterious places. We looked at Skywalker Ranch. We looked at basically a bunch of things just using the acquired information. And in doing so we came across a couple of patterns. And then we applied these patterns to things we're personally familiar with because we can go investigate these things. And so in doing so, we've been going through Clinton Road making sense of the weirdness that happened 15 years ago. And we've actually come to some interesting informational conclusions using the cross reference information we have. Great. Fantastic. A couple of those details included an episode per episode take on all the different sections of things that are just echoes, things that are some phantoms of some sort, and actual total significant things. And within those groups we've come across other things to look at. Primarily the. The big focus that we had was to see what is out there that we can ground.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And we went on the path of the. The lady.

Cristina: Yeah. Whether she's a shadow person or whatever. Yes, whatever she is.

Jack: And so we investigated that and there's a lot about her. It turns out as we deducted that there might be one person, might be one person. And there seems to be a literal timeline happening, a point in which they start to show up and a bunch of events that follow it. It looks like a girl shows up and then she's in panic for years. And slowly as time goes by, she's more adjusted to her scenario. Kind of like somebody got lost in the shadow realm and had to acclimate, but was scared at the beginning when we were seeing her. Scared. And then over time very adapted and over time trying to investigate the scenario, no longer scared of it. And eventually looks like a scientist almost Investigating and running tests out there. Almost ignoring the people that she sees. And that's weird.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Specifically, something about the lake. She's taking samples and doing something to the lake. The lake is something important, although we can't tell what.

Cristina: No.

Jack: And we can't tell whether she was living in the castle or if that was a base of operations of some sort. Because a lot of times I just saw her hanging out, like, living there.

Cristina: I don't think she's living there because there's so much happening there that there's no way you can live there when.

Jack: There'S so much unless there's nothing happening. And all the people we see live there.

Cristina: That's a lot of people. Could be.

Jack: Could definitely be. So that's where we were. And one of the thing. One of the notes we came across was a couple of notes, actually, public records, mentioning this girl along with the boy. Those two separate occasions when she was seen with the boy. Once at the bridge and another one, another spot. And so I went ahead and I looked at the boy in particular, because we got the lady. And the lady is connected to another human. Who's the young boy on top of that. The lady began as a girl. Looked like a young girl in 1950, 1965. But the word girl became a lady, and the word lady became a woman as time went by. Giving us a visual that people are describing what they seem to be like.

Cristina: Aging person.

Jack: An aging person. The term seems accurate to them when they're describing it. Began with girl, cross through lady, and ended up a woman. That's an aging person. And by the understandings we have, people who age must be from this side. At least that's what it seems like to us.

Cristina: Yeah, I guess. Because we don't know what's happening.

Jack: Yes. We have no clue. So let us begin by showing you some images. And I want you to just tell the listeners what it is you're looking at. That's all that matters.

Cristina: All right.

Jack: They're going to see the images and post, like, the episode thumbnail and stuff like that. But it is very important that you look at this and tell me what it is you see.

Cristina: Are you somehow related to each other?

Jack: The same place?

Cristina: Okay, the first one. Because the first one, I can't really tell what it is.

Jack: Ruins.

Cristina: It's ruins. Yeah. The second one is a doorway into the ruins. Unless this is the tower or castle, whatever. No, but it doesn't look like a castle. And the third one, it looks like just a building in the forest.

Jack: Yeah. These are different angles at the same place.

Cristina: The third one doesn't look real, though.

Jack: No, the third one isn't real.

Cristina: Oh, okay. Is that like, what people think?

Jack: No, that's what it looks like. That's what it used to look like.

Cristina: What? Yeah, like what it used to look like, but like what people think it used to look like.

Jack: No, that's what it looks like. That's what it used to look like. Exactly what it used to look like. It just so happens to be a perfect rendition instead of a sort of rustic looking one. The idea was to get a perfect visual of what it looks like.

Jack: Which.

Cristina: It looks like a house, I guess. I don't know. It looks strange. It doesn't look like a house either. It looks like a building, but it doesn't look like anything.

Jack: Okay, saying it doesn't look like this, it doesn't look like that. Not helpful. Describe what you're looking at. You describe the doorway. That's.

Cristina: There's a doorway. There's a fireplace. I think there's something in the bottom. I don't know what that is. That's round, going down. Like a pipe. Yes, There you go. Pipe. There's a pipe.

Jack: A pipe. Doing what? Saying there's a pipe means nothing. There's a pipe going from the base wall down to a different. Down to. It turns down into another level. That's a description right there. It's turning from a second story down into a first story. The chimney you're describing is connected to the building, but towards the largest fragment of it. There are three different fragments to the tower, as far as we can tell. And we can confirm that based on the structure that we're looking at, where we can't see the other parts of it. It does have a triangular form. So there must be a more steady form behind it, which in other images you'll notice not. And I don't have the image here, but the. In the bottom image, you're looking at where the smaller piece that's actually behind the two images we're looking at.

Cristina: So there's two ways in.

Jack: There's not. I mean, yeah, sure, there's two ways in, but what you're looking at is. Yeah, yeah. So you're looking at the back of it and then the bottom one, we're looking at the front of it. That's technically the actual front.

Cristina: The bottom image, the bottom one is so dark, I can't tell if there's windows. Is there windows?

Jack: There are windows, yes.

Cristina: Okay. Because I know it look really strange if it's just two ways in and then windows. But okay, so there's windows. It looks like it's made out of some kind of brick.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: And I'm not sure what it's supposed to. Like maybe it's a home.

Jack: It's not a home. Doesn't matter what you think it is. Just describe what you see.

Cristina: Yeah, that's all I see. A building, a forest.

Jack: All right, I'll keep adding some details. Yes. It's made out of a red and brown brick style. The main attraction here is the centerpiece that seems to be the focal point of almost every image. And the rest of the structures kind of fade away to the background. The tower has been knocked down over time. That's the most collapsed part. You can actually see it on the other side here. The building is towards the front and you can see the tower towards the back there. And the original building was well known for what you see here, the green. It was covered in moss everywhere. That doesn't get seen in the newer versions because the forest around it has been sort of killed by its own ruins.

Cristina: What?

Jack: Yeah. Preventing the. It sort of covered the ability for dirt to grow grass and s***. So it's ruins are stopping the growth. And so the moss has vanished. And so everything is kind of disappeared. But ultimately it was very covered. Now what you're looking at is called the furnace.

Cristina: Furnace.

Jack: Yes. What you're looking at is called the furnace. And the furnace. That's why it has a chimney. That's where you would let the smoke out. The background pipe is to run different materials. And it's in facility. I cannot tell you what the f*** this was used for originally. There are so many stories, it's not even worth getting into. I'm not talking about what it was used for. Too many things. It's a furnace. Think of uses for it. People were using it for that. Whatever you can think of using cremation. Somebody cremated somebody there. You need to get rid of material that's toxic. Somebody did that in there. It's a furnace. It was used for whatever they say.

Cristina: It was used for. Whatever.

Jack: Yes. I'm telling you what? I'm telling you what. All the information I've acquired. Oh, I'm not adding any sauce to anything.

Cristina: Anything. Okay.

Jack: That was a furnace and was used for many things. I'm not sure which one of them were actually used for. These are just different things it could have been used for. So we're not even gonna bother talking about that.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Because I know you will. We're not Gonna break into what it was used for because it doesn't matter to the ultimate bigger picture of what we're gonna talk about.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The point of this furnace is that in looking for the kid, I found this. This is one of the places the kid was found. Really? Yeah.

Cristina: What? So that's somewhere in.

Jack: This is the Clinton furnace.

Cristina: Whoa. It's just in the middle of nowhere.

Jack: Just in the woods.

Cristina: That's. That's pretty creepy. But okay, yes.

Jack: So the bridge, very prominent location for the child. The furnace, second, very prominent location for the child. They show up in other places. These are the two most consistent, like last time, a bunch of records that I even put timelines about how often they were mentioned within these gaps. Same idea, except I'm not doing that timeline thing. But these were the two most extreme mentions at the bridge. But we've heard that one a lot.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And looking into that, found very little. Yeah, the furnace, weird anomaly. You start looking into the furnace, you find the furnace's existence. You find public records of the kid being mentioned. Oh, there's been a lost boy. We think we saw a boy loss. We think we saw runaway by there. All these different scenarios of there's a young boy somewhere around the ruins of the furnace.

Cristina: Weird.

Jack: Okay, okay, so that was interesting. So I start looking into the furnace.

Cristina: It has to be a hotspot, right?

Jack: It has to be a hot spot. Or it doesn't have to be a hot spot, but there's something weird about the furnace. And then we find only even in public records, even in documentations of construction, even. There's no direct link as to why this exists, just theories as to why it was there and what it was being used for. Yeah, very strange.

Cristina: How long ago do you have, like a year it was made or something?

Jack: No.

Cristina: Oh, wow.

Jack: No, it's just very obscure information on this. It's sort of unknown.

Cristina: It's just, it's a mystery.

Jack: It's a legitimate mystery.

Cristina: Whoa.

Jack: So I was, I wanted to know who owns this right now, who owns that? And like it's somebody's property. Otherwise I could just go there and say, it's mine. Yeah, somebody owns it.

Jack: So I look at who owns it and okay, it lands right back where we started. It was owned by the Newark Watershed Conservation and Development Corporation, the people who own the woods.

Cristina: Okay, so what were they doing?

Jack: Yeah, exactly. The problem is that existed already and it was bought by NORC when the other guy died. Okay, so we're gonna talk about that for a second. What do we what do you remember specifically about that? Or should I just go into it and not bother.

Cristina: Let me try. Let me try a little. Okay. See, they were hired to investigate the kkk. I think that's what I remember.

Jack: Okay, I'll jump into it. When the owner died, his. Their family. His family sold the property, the castle and the land to the NORC Watershed Organization, the new Watershed.

Cristina: Did you?

Jack: Yes, I did.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: The Newark Watershed Organization was then contacted by the mayor.

Cristina: That's what I remember, the mayor.

Jack: So that they can work. I mean, they were. Contact. Yeah. The Norquater Shed and the mayor. Yeah. Mayor of West Milford work together to investigate because there were reports of cult activity. And so they go and research, come up with nothing. The guy retires, and then we get mentions of the kkk.

Cristina: Oh, yeah.

Jack: They were just working along. So the structure existed before that. They acquired the property, the castle. And that was on the property. So that's theirs too. So that's what the background to that was, wasn't. They were hired to look at the kkk.

Cristina: Because at that time, people were just.

Jack: Cool with the kkk. Unless you were black.

Cristina: Okay. It was about the Colts.

Jack: Yeah. So when Richard J. Cross died, who is a former owner, is when it was acquired. Now looking at the Newark Watershed Conservation and Development Corporation, which for short, I might just call NORC Watershed.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: NORC Watershed was being investigated for corruption from 2008 to 2013. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were found guilty in 2013 for corruption. Yes.

Cristina: Okay. What are they doing?

Jack: Key thing to matter about here is ownership of the entire property shifts to the city of Newark in 2013, where it has ignored the forest facilities since. Now, Newark Watershed was in charge of maintaining and taking care of the forest. And in the 1950s, as it was falling into disrepair, people started hanging out in that area. And that's what you know. There's kids hanging out in there and we got these reports of satanic things. We cannot have kids trying to think it's fun and scary and go check it out. That's dangerous. We gotta investigate, make sure there's nothing there. So when kids show up, they don't eventually, you know, what was it, 1988 like? You just knock it down. Kids are still going to this f****** day. And that s***'s dangerous now. It's falling apart so much, it's dangerous. Just knock it down so nobody gets hurt out there.

Cristina: Which one they're knocking down? The castle.

Jack: Yeah, the castle. This is about the castle. But so they. When newark acquired in 2013, they just ignored it. But it was already in disrepair. So it was nothing. It's like at least nobody's stealing money and saying they're. So what are the charges that they were given that they were in fact guilty for? So two charges. Let's unpack the first one.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The first charge is kickback schemes. I'll explain. A kickback scheme is when you create a loop scenario where you get profit off of money that was supposed to go for something else. Usually we call that taking off the top.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Right. So what was happening? No maintenance or oversight was being performed specifically on the property of Clinton Road. The surrounding forests and structures. Specifically on that. They. The Northwatershed organization owns a bunch of things.

Cristina: And they just abandoned it? Pretty much.

Jack: Well, they abandoned this place. They own a bunch of things. They're in charge of maintaining a bunch of places. And they just don't do that for Clinton Road or the forest specifically. That area. All their other s*** is well maintained. And Clinton Road is so wide and the things are so hard to locate within it that there's no point. You could just take them out their word. Whatever. Who's out there anyways? Right. Funding provided by the city of Newark for the property, for maintaining the property was paid to shell companies owned by members of the organization. So fake. Other companies would come in and maintain with the budget provided by. But those companies were owned by the members. Fun. And no worker was sent in to maintain anything.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So all of it, a hundred percent of it is pocket money. On top of the fact that goes through somebody's quote company, unquote. So they get more money through tax and stuff. Because you're running a business.

Cristina: That's so strange that they would pick the spots and just ignore.

Jack: It is so strange. I would pick this spot to be fair. So strange.

Cristina: Wonder why.

Jack: Right?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: They're just stealing the money. That seems like the logical reason. Nobody's gonna look at this. Just stealing the money. What else could we say it is? Right. It's a bunch of people. They know all the property is in ruins or so distant into the woods. And people don't normally get out of their car. Most people are scared. And the few people who make it that far, they're already careful enough. Do this frequently. It's like there's no worries here. Really. Really?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Even the investigation from the 50s was just for caution. No kid is going to go and really get hurt because these are thrill seekers. Which means they're usually the more cautious individuals because they're familiar with thrill seeking. So what do you do? You pocket the money. This is stupid project. We acquired the thing and whatever.

Cristina: Well.

Jack: So what's interesting is in the document, it elaborates as this has been going on for about 70 years.

Cristina: How many? Seven.

Jack: 70 years.

Cristina: 70. Oh, okay.

Jack: Whoa. It could not have been the same people. 70 years is aggressively long. You tell me 20 years, I can believe the same people were doing it. You tell me 70 years. That's two entire lifetimes. If you started at one person, he died, and now another person, then he died. Now that next person is in charge.

Cristina: That's possible.

Jack: Yeah. Except why are they still running this system? Nobody came through who wasn't corrupt.

Cristina: Yeah, well, if they hire the people that are. I don't know. That's interesting.

Jack: Fair enough. Maybe Norquatershed was selecting its employees. Yeah, like, oh, I. I want to lift this guy from this other place and bring him with us. And it's like, you definitely work with him in other places. Probably mentioned, hey, I got some opportunities, you know, if you. If you could be trusted.

Cristina: It became a family business thing. Like, okay, my children.

Jack: Yes, essentially. Right. The names of the individuals, irrelevant. We look at them and it goes nowhere. It's just. They were really just racking in the money. That's it. It's just weird corruption thing. But I don't know. This is weird.

Cristina: Yeah. For seven, 70 years.

Jack: That's crazy about 70 years. And because for 70 years it wasn't maintained. That's why the castle went to disrepair. That's why everything became ruins. Nothing was being maintained and now nothing is left. Yeah, I mean, there's stuff out there, but none of it is maintained. So that is the first charge. The second charge is where it gets a little more interesting because the second charge was bribery.

Cristina: Who are they bribing? Okay, what's going on?

Jack: Well, members of the NORC Watershed organization were receiving third party donations in exchange for not performing all of their duties.

Cristina: Oh, okay. I see. They're getting money from whoever's using the forest to do whatever the mysterious things that people are saying that are happening there. Okay.

Jack: Emails, wire transfers, as well as paper trails dating more than two thirds of a century backed the investigation and the conviction of the members.

Cristina: So it's been happening since the beginning of 70 years to current day?

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Well, not current, but when they decided to do something about it.

Jack: So I. We. There's a lot of math we have to think about right now. 70 years. This happens. The conviction in 2013. If we count backwards, where do we land? You take 10 from 70, you make it 60, that leaves you to 2003. Now you subtract 60 and that takes you to 1940.

Cristina: Okay, 1943.

Jack: Yeah. Right. Now this is, this is where it's going to get a little interesting. And we got to unpack some of these details. Now first. Weird. Before I go on to the next, let's. Let's unpack this real quick. Definitely. It sounds like you're right. There's this third party who's bribing them. Is bribing them for them ignoring the thing. Yes, because it doesn't say what duties they were to ignore. The two charges don't seem in paperwork related, but they're obviously to us. Yeah. You telling me they're being bribed to not do their job and telling me that they were receiving all the money provided for a job that was given directly to them and they were supposed to put for the thing, but they just pocketed and said that's the reality of what's happening here.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Two quote, unrelated, obviously related.

Cristina: Oh my gosh, it's so wrong.

Jack: It's weird too. So who is the third party? And none of you. Like, who the f***? Why are you guys okay with it instead of reporting? Then again, you don't care to be.

Cristina: With the cult, though. It's like the most. Like you were. That was the first time we hear of them. Like, oh, solve that cult problem. And like that cult problem probably took care of them. That's probably where it starts. I don't know. I don't remember what year that starts, though.

Jack: Well, here's what's interesting, right? Because we assume it makes sense that this has been going on since it got bought, except it got bought in 1919. And if it got bought in 1919, then nothing makes less sense than 70 years back. Because even if we started at the year 2000, it would be 80 years already just to get to 1920. Then we'd have to add another 10 years to get to 2010. So that's 90. Or it's almost 100 years apart, but we're seeing 70. And when we do the math, we land in the 40s, 43. And when we find out when the lady was first mentioned, it's 1965.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: We're in the ballpark of something that's happening, but it's unclear what the f*** is happening. We're just insignificant time. So let's dive a little deeper into this. So the two primary members, everybody else was given fines. Everybody else was given jail time. These two spearheaders were given prison time.

Cristina: Okay, cool.

Jack: Now let's unpack the details here. The bribery was. So they discontinue monitoring, specifically the forest. I find that later in the original documents for the courts, in the original case files, they were reported as separate, different cases. And there was almost an attempt, an intentionality to not relate them. It looked very intentional. There was never anybody who clearly stated, well, somebody was doing something in the forest if you guys weren't mentioned. Nowhere. But like, could it be any more obvious?

Cristina: Yes. Who is this? Other people? Where's that? Courtroom.

Jack: Yeah. And like the fact that there was no attempt to connect the dots. There was no attempt on record to connect the dots, but you could find anywhere else that the theories of people just. Yeah, it was definitely that they were getting paid for. Like, people know this. It's just common knowledge that this. Whoever this group was, was clearly paying these people to go in and out. But no document says it. No official court document says it. No official public document says it that they're related. Yeah. You find other non officialized documents throughout time that mention things.

Cristina: None of it mentions who this other party could be.

Jack: No. So, yeah. To allow the third party free access to the lands was ultimately the point. Weirdly enough, the third party's name had been redacted anywhere it had been mentioned.

Cristina: So they know who it is.

Jack: Yep. From everywhere. Doesn't matter where. And there again was an intentionality to not mention their name in a lot of places where it would be obvious that you would. In a proper court structure, you'd probably restructure this to forcefully include the name as often as possible, to reference back as often as possible. Just obviously absent from places. You'd structure things intentionally to have it weird.

Cristina: So they knew. They knew and. But for some reason, you can't say it.

Jack: The city of Nork. No, I don't know if West Milford had any f******.

Cristina: Yeah, but they. The city. What? Okay.

Jack: And I don't know what's happening because again, the mayor of Milford was concerned about weird things. He was the one staging organized like, you know, let's go investigate.

Cristina: Yes. And then he quit. So was he bribed to quit or something?

Jack: Something scary must have happened to him.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So the paper trail extends straight into the very first initial agreement that was signed by this redacted named company. You know what this reminds me of? When we first found the trade route that goes to Epstein's Island. It was a whole episode. And this reminds me of that. I mean, it was like a shipping spot that was Just on this island.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And it would only take one trip, and it was to the Epstein's island. This reminds me of that level of sketch of, like, somebody went far to make this vanish.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: The paper trail goes all the way to 8-3-19. That is the first sighting of the document. 8-3-19.

Cristina: How did they do it, though?

Jack: Like, it.

Cristina: That's so crazy that you said 70 years.

Jack: Like, how it has to be intentional with people hiring. They had to be hand picking everybody intentionally.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It was gonna eventually collapse. It's crazy it lasted that long.

Cristina: Yeah. That's so crazy. Make it last that long.

Jack: But that means they were slipping and that's why they were put on there.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Something was giving, and it was becoming too visible. And it was that time for the city to be like, you guys are not trustworthy anymore for whatever reason.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Because they didn't go in and do anything. In fact, now it's less guarded. It's actively less guarded. And nobody's taking money for it. Nobody's been pretending to garden. Now it's just not guarded.

Cristina: I don't understand. Oh, maybe whoever this third party was realized, like, it doesn't matter. We don't have to keep paying these people. Like, they got them in trouble because now they don't have to bribe them because they know, like, okay, we. The laws make sense now that we don't need them.

Jack: Yeah, Fair. Maybe. It could totally be the case.

Cristina: Things are gonna just work out for us because there's no.

Jack: Yeah. They could have structural structured things in such a way that they're like, we couldn't get caught. And if we did get caught, we couldn't get in trouble.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Like, definitely. It could be. I don't know what the logic behind it is, but it's just a weird shift. This suddenly happened. Something made the Newark Watershed Organization irrelevant. Suddenly.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Not sure what, but something did. And it could have totally been that.

Cristina: Interesting.

Jack: Weird. And here's the thing. We had a period of random cars coming in and out. This sketchy. Unmarked black vehicles coming in and out. This gets signed in 1935, in 1939. And then in 1965. Actually, I have the thing right here. See, the very first mention.

Cristina: Oh, the cars.

Jack: Of the woman is actually 1965. Yeah.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Yeah, 1965. And then where do we get mentions of the cars? Blah, blah, blah. No, 1966. Immediately following the lady. Okay, 1965 is when the lady shows up. 1966 is the cars. 1939 is when the agreement was signed. Now, I had to add this extra note here because of the nature of the situation, but I'm gonna scroll up to that real quick and I'm going to tell you something that is very exaggeratedly interesting. And we can unpack it after I say it. I don't know what it means or what it should mean. Let's unpack some of the acquisition details.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: In 1919, Clinton Road is acquired by the NORC Watershed Organization. In 1939, the Sketchy Deal is performed. That is August 31st, the Last Thursday and day of the month. Why did I feel it was relevant to point that out? The Newark Watershed Organization signs a donor agreement on that date with a third party donor to leave Clinton Road and the surrounding forest unmaintained and unpatrolled. Now, why is the date so significant?

Cristina: I don't know. And tries to guess. I don't know.

Jack: The very, very, very next day is the beginning of World War II. The very next day this gets signed, and the very next day is the beginning of World War II. I don't know if that's relevant in any manner, shape or form. The very next day World War II started.

Cristina: Okay. Now is it coincidence? Yeah.

Jack: Now let's talk about this coincidence real quick. There's three pieces in here that make a lot of sense for what I just said. I don't know what they mean.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: The date this was signed. Sightings of the KKK at the castle. And one other piece that stops it from being coincidences, but suddenly makes it something to observe. How do we start the episode with a boy. Where?

Cristina: In the furnace place.

Jack: There's nothing more N*** Germany than a furnace. Oh, we have the KKK, a furnace and the date before World War II all in the same place.

Cristina: Because we have no idea if that is the kkk.

Jack: We have no idea. We also know that druids look identical to a cloaked man. So, you know, just random details that just seem to build patterns. I don't know what that means. I don't know what the relevance of this date was. I was looking, what significant thing happened around here. Googling and s***. I'm like, what the f***? World War I started the very next day. Hours from this point.

Cristina: Interesting. I don't know. It's just weird. I don't know.

Jack: It's just weird. I also don't know.

Cristina: The boy. If there was other beings around the furnace, that'd be interesting. Like other ghosts.

Jack: There have been. There's just no repetition.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The boy is who's often seen there.

Cristina: Yeah, he Definitely feels like an echo type of thing. But then he's in two places.

Jack: He's in two places. And we know he's not an echo because of one detail. He interacts with the woman we know isn't an echo and that unless she's playing a role to look like an echo herself.

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: But she interacts with the boy.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So the boy isn't an echo, but he's always like.

Cristina: They never say he's doing something like, what is he doing here?

Jack: I don't know. He's always hanging around the furnace and he's always by the bridge. One or the other. It could just be a legit hangout spot by the bridge. Again, we've seen kids. Apparently they like to come close to the road and see people from the other side us roaming by. This could be that same thing. Kids is cool spot to see people from the other side.

Cristina: But if he and the girl are the same, why doesn't he age?

Jack: I don't know. I don't know. And weirdly enough, I had the same thought and I looked.

Cristina: Is there a man?

Jack: No, no. The boy is always the boy from beginning, straight through. The boy is always a boy.

Cristina: He's a ghost. No matter what he is some kind of ghostly figure.

Jack: He might actually be a jinn. He might actually be a jinn who's achieving human like features somehow. I don't know. I don't know. The boy is weird. There was no age attached to it. It never became a teenager. It was never a young man. It was never an older. There's nothing. No, it's always a boy. Always a young boy. And that's weird because the lady aged around him.

Cristina: That's weird.

Jack: Unless it's different boys. It doesn't seem to be. The descriptions all match. There seems to be very consistent. It could be different boys, but then they're in uniform.

Cristina: That's also very strange.

Jack: But now let's take a step back. This girl could be one of many girls and something extra wrong happened to her. Or all of them are girls and we're seeing a bunch because again, sometimes we still get mentions of the young girl. But rarely. Rarely. Maybe. Maybe there's just kids being experimented on. That fits the suit for 99 of the we've looked into.

Cristina: Yes, but do we never get the girl at the furnace?

Jack: I never know. No records of the girl at the furnace.

Cristina: Okay. What was the furnace doing in there? I don't know. Okay.

Jack: Weird, right?

Cristina: Weird.

Jack: What are we learning? What is this telling Us.

Cristina: There's things that look related but we cannot connect them.

Jack: Yeah. And there's some weird f****** NORC is in on whatever's happening. NORC knows, or at least it has an idea.

Cristina: Or they can't do anything about it.

Jack: Or they can't do anything about it. But no, I doubt that. I think there's. I don't know. Who knows? Maybe you're totally right. Like, what is the force that's so intense we just ignore it, let it go. The less people looking in that direction, the better. Literally dissolve this. Have nobody work it. Just say we're maintaining it and never do. Like, what? That's better than having somebody fakely maintain it. Yes. Less people to go look.

Cristina: That is strange. Yes. Who is this third party?

Jack: Who is this third party? I did everything to try to find any information. It was just non existent.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And it still. It brings into the question the fact that the kids don't age. Then adds this weird question. Because when we were looking at the girl, the lady and the woman, it looks, based on the timeline in which dimensions happen, that there is at least one person who's actually consistent, even if all the others might actually be other people. There is one person that people have seen more who is the same person and maybe all the others are different. So they see a bunch of little girls all the time, teenage girls, and then this one lady who's aged the entire time. They've continued to see all these young girls. They could. I think they're running experiments on children. And what we're seeing is actually different kids and something extra, extra, extra bad happened to this one person and they're somehow trapped in between areas or something.

Cristina: But you think kids are important in this?

Jack: I think. I mean, we keep seeing these children and the girl and like the girl became more rare as time went by. But I think it's because of the prominence of the woman, not because the girls lessened. I think it's the prominence of the woman. Everybody sees the woman, she's there.

Cristina: And the people that hang out on the beach though, are they children? Do you remember? Yeah. Where she gets the water? There's always like people hanging out there.

Jack: You mean the lake?

Cristina: The lake, yes. There's always people hanging out there that we assume are like maybe different echoes from a certain.

Jack: Yes, it looks like those are actually echoes. Or not even a neck. Yes, yes, it's an echo. They're literally looking through a portal into a different time. Yeah, that's not now. And that's not like now would still Be now regardless of which realm you're in. But then would be then regardless of what realm you're looking in. And he's just literally looking at a different time and those people aren't there. That seems to be the case that there's a lot of like time pockets around the lake, which would also like what happened in the lake that she's also so focused on the lake.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: If she's trapped between realms and trying to find a way out. Where the most bubbles exist is where you would be doing the most experiments.

Cristina: I suppose that could be.

Jack: She could be trying to get out or jump into either side. But then, is there an in between frequency you can land in that means that realms would be infinite. If there's an in between space, that means realms are infinite.

Cristina: I don't. I don't know. Because the way they describe the fairy. Using the fairy realm to travel through the shadow realm makes it seem like there is no in between. Like there is, but you can't actually be in the in between.

Jack: Except that is really, really old thinking. Considering we corrected that with how Herme later explained literally being able to just walk in with nothing but thought power. That's very different. How you manipulating reality so much. You could just. I'm here now in L. F. Okay. And that violates what we were reading before. What was other people's interpretation? That they are using it to cut path. And that made it look like satellites. But then eventually we found things that make it look like Earth and shadow are literally just. You boxed off a part of shadow.

Cristina: And called it Earth.

Jack: And it looks kind of like maybe there's some connection there in the same fashion between Elfame and the shadow realm. And in that case, they are physically, literally in Elfame and physically, literally in the shadow realm. When they are moving through those, it would seem that maybe Elfame is smaller somehow. And in return, going to Elfhame could allow you shortcuts, and that would make sense.

Cristina: That would be weird. If it's smaller.

Jack: Well, it's allowing you shortcuts between the other space.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: If it was bigger, you'd travel less. But if it's smaller, you do small distances in Elfame and that's greater distances over here.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But at least that's just a way of thinking about it. If that's the case, then yeah, it's a frequency. That means there's an infinite number of different frequencies we could jump into. We're surrounded by infinite numbers of realities, literally. And Hermes, actually anybody. And being able to Just manipulate and cross between them. You are beyond what God could ever conceive of being. Beyond. Like our descriptions of the most powerful, exaggerated gods. Even when we look at the research we've done and ground those gods into reality. People who consume entire stars for energy couldn't f*** with a guy who could go into a reality where that star doesn't exist.

Cristina: There he's the only one that seems to really be able to do that. Because everyone else has, you know, the gates or some kind of gates to be made.

Jack: Even Jesus.

Cristina: Even Jesus, yeah. There are gates in this woods that we haven't found.

Jack: Maybe. But Hermes doesn't seem to require anything. No, like the true deal seems overpowered on some other s***. And the more we look at Hermes and the more we compare information to Hermes, it makes things like Santa Claus look watered down. Because, d***, you overpowered as h***. Santa. Few people could f*** with Santa on a real day. Jehovah, with his best technology, would struggle. But I don't think Santa could spot Hermes if he wanted to.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: You know, I think that's the level of difference. It seems too overwhelmingly exaggerated.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: I mean, he can easily go to any reality whenever he wants. An infinite number of different realities. No, nothing is a barrier. Time is an illusion. Place is just a state of mind. What the do you mean, bro? What? This is just how you think and how you move. And the universe works in this way for you?

Cristina: Yeah. That is ridiculous.

Jack: Nuts, Crazy. Crazy. I don't f****** know. But if that's the case, if that's possible, then maybe this lady stuck between realms. I don't know what else she could be doing. I don't know what she could be doing. She's definitely running experiments. I don't know for her, but she looked scared. Or maybe those were other girls. Other girls getting away, getting horrified and being killed by random s*** in the woods. We don't see their bodies and s*** because it's on the other side.

Cristina: There's some type of experimenting going on there.

Jack: It looks like it, bro. And they're running out in gowns. All of them?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Come on, bro. Oh, it's a white dress. Oh, it's nightgown. Oh, it's a raincoat, bro. Let's summarize this way quickly. You're looking at two things and don't know how to describe it. One is a lab coat, and the other one is a medical gown. All of them are those two things. Every description anybody has ever given matches those two things. Who the f*** owns a white raincoat? Back then, when white was harder to make, nobody owned a f****** white raincoat. That's not a raincoat. Anybody who used raincoat to describe this is stupid. I'm sorry. Anybody who was going through these wisdoms. There's a woman in a white raincoat. You have never in your life heard those two words put together. Because nobody f****** owns a white raincoat. There's a lab coat, bro. Come on. And the gown is f******. A medical gown, bro. Medical.

Cristina: But if she's wearing a white something, is she part of the group that we see as KKK's or not? We know they're not really. But the cult members in white.

Jack: No. Because cloaks are very different than gowns. Gowns is you are a patient. Cloaks, you are a wizard. And raincoat your doctor.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The cloak. I don't know how to relate the cloaks to anything.

Jack: That's just weird.

Cristina: That's just weird.

Jack: The raincoat. That's a lab coat. They are almost identical. And to somebody in the middle of the night, that's the same s***. And the nightgown and a medical gown are both called gowns because they are both gowns and are structured almost identically. Except white is in the scenario we're talking about. And blue is common day pass it. The only difference still f****** nightgowns.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: The only place it gets a little iffy is when they say dress. And you could easily confuse a dress for a hanging nightgown and a little bit of wind. You know? Easy, simple, logical. I am thinking nightgowns and lab coats. That's what it sounds like. There's too many girls. And it looks like they still get mentioned casually, even if predominantly it's the lady in the rain. Quote, raincoat.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: But a bunch of girls in nightgowns? Come on, bro. There's a doctor and a bunch of chicks who were experimented on trying to run away and ask for help. Oh, please save me.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Why they're always asking for help. Why they always street side? Please give me a ride. And then they disappear when you get too close. Because they ain't there. But they see you. You see them. And then neither one of you sees each other when you're too close. They ran away from the facility. Presumably the church. Not the church. The castle is probably still functional on the other side.

Cristina: Yes. We have no idea. Yeah. All these places that are in there.

Jack: Probably maintained like a m*********** on the other side.

Cristina: On the other side. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.

Jack: That's my theory.

Cristina: I don't know, I like that theory.

Jack: Yeah. I couldn't confirm one way or another, but it's pretty heftily leaning in that direction. Yeah. Let's see some of these details here. The when the city of Newark absorbed ownership of the land, they collected the necessary documentation required for evidence to support their cases. This is weird. And destroyed the rest of the documents. Everything else was destroyed. They only used the documents that would support the case of convicting the individuals. And only that. No additional details. And completely removed the rest. These destroyed documents included the information related to the briber because they were unquote unknowing of the specific rules and regulations pertaining to this particular instance. Unquote. And as a result were, quote, unknowing participants. Unquote.

Cristina: The briber were unknowing?

Jack: Yes. According to these documents, they were unknowing participants because they weren't familiar with these specific laws pertaining to the situation. It sounds like you're describing foreigners. Bro.

Cristina: Interesting. Yeah.

Jack: Sounds like you're describing foreigners. Bro. They're doing legal things and didn't know the laws.

Cristina: They didn't know the laws.

Jack: Yeah. They ain't from here. Bro. They just ain't from here is what you're trying to say.

Cristina: Yeah, right.

Jack: They weren't familiar with the laws.

Cristina: Please.

Jack: Bro. And that's why there is no information related to the third party.

Cristina: They destroyed it. They actively destroyed Directors said they don't know.

Jack: Only use what they needed to convict everybody.

Cristina: We don't understand the laws. That's the excuse. That is so crazy.

Jack: The quote is exactly. Where'd it go? Unknowing of the specific rules and regulations pertaining to this particular instance.

Cristina: Wow.

Jack: And thus get labeled later as, quote, unknowing participants. Unquote.

Cristina: How's that possible?

Jack: That's a lie. That's legally a lie. This is bullshit.

Cristina: That's just so crazy. That's so crazy.

Jack: The conclusion of the collected information pertaining to this, as far as I see it, is a random undisclosed party gets free access in and out of Clinton Road for unspecified reasons. The watershed members as a result use the extra money to hire their pays. This continues as company culture from leader to leader. Right. Until 2008 when an investigation begins that results in the disbandment and the imprisonment of the members. In 2013, that seems to be what I believe happened. Now looking back at the lady. The lady happens. The cars show up. Cops don't investigate this. The only time somebody went in to investigate was for the satanic things.

Cristina: And they said nothing was found.

Jack: Nothing was found.

Cristina: Because they weren't investigating.

Jack: They weren't investigating or they weren't. And they did find something. And that's why that guy quit. Because they did find something. And it was like, well, you went too far. Now your family is in danger. Quit and say nothing.

Cristina: Yes. That has to be it. That has to. Nothing else makes sense.

Jack: Nothing else makes sense.

Cristina: All of this, it's just.

Jack: You found it. Now quit.

Jack: And if you say anything, well, based on what you saw, you would know what would happen.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: You saw it. You personally sent me a message.

Cristina: Yeah. They have no one there.

Jack: There's nobody there. Empty.

Cristina: Very suspicious. So suspicious it's crazy.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What did you find? This is very strange.

Jack: Yeah, very strange. There's no. No literal. It's just like a. I guess it's a summary of my thoughts. It's less of a conclusion.

Cristina: But yeah, but yeah, yeah, something is happening there.

Jack: Something is happening in Clinton Road. Like there's legal forces involved and there's outside third party individuals. There's symmetry with random things. The kkk, the date and the furnace, the lady meeting the boy, the gown, the lab coats. The fact that we found looking identical again. When I found Skywalker Ranch, when I looked at Stonehenge, when I looked here, actually looked here because of what I found over there. I began by looking for distortions. Space time distortions, electrical magnetic distortions. Cold spots that aren't explained by weather.

Cristina: Where their distortions are at. There's so much more.

Jack: Yes, specifically where there is space time distortions of which looking we have weird distortion electrical currents that shouldn't be happening at random time storms that happen shooting times. There's cold spots that happen at random times. There's the holes that show up and go. There's facilities that get seen and disappear. There's people who. And like this fit every suit. Just before I got to everything I just mentioned, just with the anomalies happening in the environment without seeing anything weird.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: That's enough to look. And then the fact that everything weird is here and then you look at all weird s*** and you start coming across all this.

Cristina: Yes, something is happening there. Something is happening and still happening there.

Jack: It's still happening there to this day. To this day. Still going on. But is the lady in the raincoat the same as the girls? That doesn't seem to be the case now because she keeps getting mentioned. And they get mentioned, even if less so. They still get mentioned. People still see the girls. We've never seen the boy age. No boy got Trapped in some. In between. Maybe she's not trapped in between. Maybe she was one of them and joined the bad guys or the good guys. I don't know what they're doing.

Cristina: Yeah. How could you explain what's going on? Whether it's bad or good.

Jack: Whether it's bad or good. There's just something going on.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Now I think she's not the same as the other girls. I think there are multiple females.

Cristina: Poor Kow. It's hard to tell. Because of the clothing.

Jack: Because the fact that there is different sets of clothing and they mention young girls still, even if way less. So you could just assume security got tighter and tighter and tighter and less girls get away.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Or they found the other. Maybe if they're phasing girls into the other side. Because a lot of the ancient experiments were ultimately trying to figure out how to cross thresholds easily. Maybe that's what's happening. And all they're doing is sending them over there and then they just can't get them back or send them into some middle ground or something. And then they're stuck asking for help. Or maybe they do. Maybe it works and they just not sure how to reverse it and get back.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: They're like we're sending them to the shadow Realm. We just don't know how the to get them back out of the shadow world. Maybe these girls aren't jacked up with anything. So they're just on the other side somehow.

Cristina: From experiments.

Jack: Yeah, from some kind of experiment that.

Cristina: Has to do with maybe the cult that's there. The cults? You don't know.

Jack: Whatever Druid activity they see. Because things happen at the f****** council.

Cristina: Is that the next place we're going?

Jack: You ask that every episode. And I've told you there's too much to cover.

Cristina: There's really that much?

Jack: Then again, I was looking at the boy and I found the unrelated furnace. And I didn't even focus on the furnace. Looking at the furnace, I found an entire corruption scheme.

Cristina: That is so crazy.

Jack: Like we're not getting to the castle anytime soon. Or the mines. Both of those are being ignored. Maybe for a year.

Cristina: Wow.

Jack: There's too much other crap to look at. And before we look at any of that, we need the biggest picture possible. Because I'm sure there's going to be too much we don't understand.

Cristina: We need context.

Jack: Yeah, we just need context. I'm sure as we go through other things, this over there will inform this over here. But we need that many crossing wires before we get to what's obviously the center, which has to be either castle or the mines. What's weird is we see people coming in and out of mines and no weird mentions of anything else. But the castle has a bunch of weird s*** happening and there's just people kind of lurking around there. The castle seems almost too obvious, while the Mayans seem almost like. You guys don't wanna. I didn't know they were mines.

Cristina: I didn't know they were mines.

Jack: Yeah. Had to look and find that. People have reported weird things in and out of there. And it's like you guys are burying the mine documents.

Cristina: Was there more? Because you said there's more. So, like, the furnace is already a weird one.

Jack: What, like other structures?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Oh, yeah. There's other structures.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Whether they're weird or not really depends on how deep I fall and what I find while looking there. But there's a lot. There are many small structures and things here. Some other houses that aren't random detail. Every inch of the property around Clinton Road belongs to the castle. When the castle was sold, the castle's property was sold. And that is the entirety of everything we know as the forest around Clinton Road.

Cristina: Including the furnace then.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Including the furnace, the lake, everything from all 10 miles of it belonged to the one castle that was all just one land.

Cristina: Okay. Whoa.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: What is happening?

Jack: Wasn't even bought for that much money. It was sold for like $30,000 and it was 10 miles worth of land. Was watching a video where dude paid for his first home, which was a five bedroom house, and he only paid $3,000 for it. He paid that in 1940.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: $3,000. Five bedroom family home right now is a little over a quarter of a million.

Cristina: Yeah, well.

Jack: Well, it depends. You could find that same size house and it would be a million, depending where you go. Anyways, unrelated to that bunch of random going on, there's definitely something happening there. We have different individuals that seem to be cohesive individuals. We don't know about this kid. I gotta look more into this kid. I tried to connect the dots and have the kid kind of be a focal point for this episode. There's actually surprisingly little information on that kid. The lady's everywhere.

Cristina: This kid is an actual mystery.

Jack: The kid's an actual mystery. The kid. If we didn't have the lady aging, we would see the girls and be very confused. That's another reason that this tells me that those might be different people. Because the cohesiveness comes together when we have a consistent narrative to follow. Which happens with lady, not with the girls. If we just stop at the girls with the gowns and it's a bunch of isolated situations that don't seem to converge anymore. Yeah, and the language changing over time is part of why we can connect the dots successfully. Without that. No, it's just a girl. It's just at that point it's just an echo. Except they seem to be moving and behaving and reacting. So they're there.

Cristina: And the boy may not be an echo, but we have no more information on him.

Jack: The boy responds at least to the girl. And the girl's not an echo. So by extension the kid's not an echo. But then what's happening with the kid? And why aren't you in a medical gown? That's another interesting question. Okay, why are you fully clothed? Normally the girl's in a gown. You're not anywhere they see you. So all these boys, or this one boy, not the same as a girl. But they have a meeting.

Cristina: But they're somehow related. Yes, at the end of the day, they're somehow related.

Jack: They're somehow communicating. And they always meet in the same place. The only place you ever see them interact happens to be the bridge. Interesting, I didn't think about that. The only place. All the documents say the same thing. Ultimately, they point at when the girl is seen with the boy. It's at the bridge. You can see the boy outside of the bridge. You can see the girl outside of the bridge. You never see the boy and the girl together outside of the bridge. You only see them at the bridge. I would argue this might support the frequency theory, in which at that spot the frequency is so exact she can see him and he can see her.

Cristina: Interesting. So then they might not be the same.

Jack: And they walk away from that spot and they're not even in the same place. They can't see each other, they can't interact. If they both leave that spot, they sort of phase back into their normal frequency.

Cristina: Okay, interesting.

Jack: Alternatively, if that is the case, maybe there's not an in between spot. She aged. She's from this side. He does not look like a gem. He's not from the shadow realm. But that spot is still a convergence point. Maybe that kid's no fame. Elves are described looking like people and Nephilim are described looking like people. Most fairies take on human like characteristics oftentimes young kids and short older men.

Cristina: If he's a fairy, then he's way more important than we think he is.

Jack: And that's also why there's way less information.

Cristina: Okay. Is he running experiments in that furnace?

Jack: I don't think he would be running. I think this is an actual kid. I think by whatever measurements qualify as a child in Elfhame, I think that would be the equivalent. And maybe time works so different that hundreds of years could pass for us, and he will still look like a child.

Cristina: Okay. Yeah. Because we don't know.

Jack: We don't know. But it looks like a convergence point. If we try to rationalize, why is it that they're there together, nowhere else?

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Maybe she can't see him anywhere else. Maybe he can't see her anywhere else. That's where they can.

Cristina: Yeah, that sounds right. I don't know.

Jack: Which then means looking at the bridge becomes really important. What's happening there that isn't happening at the castle?

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And if this lady's running experiments, why isn't she running it at the bridge? Or is she trying to replicate what's happening at the bridge elsewhere?

Cristina: Oh, I don't know.

Jack: And what's happening at the bridge fits more like the Vikings solution to the problem by making an area that they can visit but they can't normally cross through. Although eventually they created a crossing point. No, no, no. It was just communication and communication. Yeah, once he drank the blood and then. Crossing point. But yeah. So basically, it sounds like that naturally happened here in that very spot. Except it can't cut. So maybe she's trying to replicate that. So she comes, interacts with the kid, talks her friends. Maybe she goes back and how do I make this thing? And then goes to a place that has a bunch of weird s*** like that happening. The lake. Yes, to study. Goes to the kid, talk. That's another spot that's sort of similar, even if different. Could be. I don't know. I don't know. Spitballing.

Cristina: Is she trying to. I don't know if he has anything to do with what she's trying to do.

Jack: Yeah, he could just be somebody from some side who's really just a genuinely innocent kid, likes to come to the area, observe humans or whatever the. Is happening, and she goes there and communicates with them. Maybe they don't even speak the same language, but, you know, they enjoy each other's company or whatever the. Yeah, they know they're not a harm to one another.

Cristina: But did we see her actually talk to the child? Okay, yes.

Jack: They've passed items from one to another.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: She will reach out to give a coin. He will put his hand out, receive the coin, throw it. He's just hanging out, playing with coins in the water. The fact that he's always doing it makes him seem like an echo. Yes, but then interacting with this chick who isn't breaks that. It's just a chill spot for him.

Cristina: Yeah. I don't know. He seems. He's so strange. I don't know.

Jack: Another random bit. Fairies. Water. Coins tied tightly together. That is a tight, tight f****** mess that happens consistently. Make a wish. Fairy territory. And fairies looking for. You can give a fairy a coin to let you through some area. Like, just weird things like that.

Cristina: Interesting.

Jack: Fairies, coins and water. The lady of the Lake.

Cristina: But he's not that. Or he. If he is, we don't see it. We don't see what's. What she gets from him. If she's getting anything.

Jack: I don't think she's getting anything. I think based on. I don't. I don't know. I don't know. Based on. Solely the public records oftentimes reported the police because they saw something.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: It doesn't seem like it. Seems like just platonic, innocent, nice interactions that happen at the spot and nowhere else in the forest.

Cristina: And then he's not really doing anything at the furnace.

Jack: He was just there, wandering. The same way they see her wandering at the castle.

Jack: Almost like he lives there.

Cristina: Okay. Strange. Strange.

Jack: Which again? The fairy lives by the fire. Okay. Checks out. One of those weird, like, well, there's coincidences everywhere kind of s***. Hangs out by the water, lives by the fire. Like, what the f***? I don't. This is a fairy.

Cristina: I don't know. Yeah, could we. I don't know. The service range.

Jack: True Mysteries. True Mysteries. And I would go as far as to say whatever organization comes in and out is the same organization from the shipping dock. Would have to be so close together. Whatever. Or how many crazy shady organizations are trying the same s***.

Cristina: That's true, too. Like, who knows? I don't know.

Jack: That was nowhere near Clinton Road. And like, what the. Could not be more identical. Shady organizations transporting secret things, entering in and out of places. Epstein's Islands. Clearly a f****** farm for adrenochrome.

Cristina: But is this spot. I don't know.

Jack: I don't know, bro. Anyways. Anyways. Any of you guys have any input for any of this information, feel free.

Cristina: So many questions.

Jack: Too many questions. It is absurd. It is ridiculous. So you guys can go online, do your own research, find this. It's really weird. It gets really complicated. Tell me if you guys find out what the h*** Nord was doing involved.

Cristina: In cleaning Are they still doing something?

Jack: No, they still own it. They still own it to this day since 2013. And yeah. So you know, if you find anything interesting, if you want to talk to us about it, you can contact us on our socials at just convo pod that's on tick tock on Facebook, on Twitter AKA X and I said Instagram on all the places. Whatever. Just just convo podworth forever.

Cristina: Remember to subscribe, rate and review the.

Jack: Show and word of mouth tell everybody that we are solving the world's problems. And if you're a fan of Clinton Road, we've got weird things for you.

Cristina: This has been the Rambling podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening.

Jack: Bye.

Cristina: SA Good morning. Good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by great dots.info art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McCallister with social media managed by Amber Black.

Rambling 283: The Lady in White

Who is the Lady in White? How did she get to Clinton Road? What is her Purpose there? The duo investigate the famous Lady in White story in an attempt to better understand the Spacetime Distortions detected at Clinton Road. Arguably the most frequently mentioned paranormal being of all time. 

+Episode Details

Who is the Lady in White? How did she get to Clinton Road? What is her Purpose there? The duo investigate the famous Lady in White story in an attempt to better understand the Spacetime Distortions detected at Clinton Road. Arguably the most frequently mentioned paranormal being of all time.

Topics Discussed:

  • Lady In White
  • Hitchhikers
  • Satanic Rituals
  • Echoes
  • Scientists
  • Escaped Experiments
  • The Shadow Realm

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod

Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod

Instagram - https://instagram.com/justconvopod


+Transcript

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And this is a show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas. Ideas. And look, man, we've. We've been on a road where we learned a lot of information, and we taken.

Cristina: We've been on two roads.

Jack: Yeah, we done took. We done. Yeah, for real, for real. We done took that information, and now we're applying it to the world to try to investigate, using our. Investigate. Because we were kind of stuck over there for a while. So now we're trying to investigate other. With the knowledge we got from our investigations, right? And we decided to go into, like, a weird place where it was clear that something was wrong.

Cristina: We looked.

Jack: We investigated some other places, but we came to, like, the logical one, which is Clinton Road. Now, what we were looking for was initially electrical magnetic distortions, cold spots. We were looking for that. Converging with stories. We were looking for weird anomalies, time anomalies, electrical magnetic fields, anything weird that has happened in any magnitude whatsoever.

Cristina: See?

Jack: And we went through a couple of places, and we land. So one of them was Stonehenge. Right. And we checked out the. What was it? Ranch.

Cristina: Yes, yes.

Jack: Skinwalker Ranch. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it made sense. It made sense. And then we landed here, and now we're looking at Clinton Road, which is a logical place. Now, in going through Clinton Road, there were many stories. We broke that into three episodes because it was too much. So in those three episodes, we went down the tremendous amount of things that exist, and the goal was essentially to unpack a lot of those things individually. But after we went down a quick kind of draft, right. Which we did, and then we highlighted the ones we thought were meaningful out of the ones we thought we weren't. And then we just talked about quickly the ones we know factually were meaningful.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Just to catch everybody up now, I went ahead and I looked into some of these things, and the point was to dive into these individually and to dissect them. But that immediately became problematic, as all things always become problematic. But it's hard to explain exactly how it's problematic. What. So I think I'm gonna show you how it's problematic instead by telling you what it is. And it's just kind of gonna make sense, and then I'll directly tell you afterwards. Anyway.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Right.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: So I. I called this part of this problem one.

Cristina: That's what he called it.

Jack: Yeah. I'm gonna give you police reports. Just summarize. This isn't the actual word for words. This is. You paraphrase summarize about actual real world police reports from the road, from Clinton Road.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So this first one happens roadside. Somewhere along the road, a man calls the local police, reporting a woman in a white dress walking barefoot, disoriented, on the road near the lake. The man reported that he continued driving because he didn't know if she could be, you know, a danger to him and his girlfriend who were in the car. When the officer asked, can he describe anything about her? He looked back and she was gone.

Cristina: I don't understand.

Jack: Like, this is a literal, actual report of. Oh, I don't know what happened. Then the cop came that there was nobody. The people weren't there.

Cristina: Oh, like, it just had. It just happened. And then the cop showed up.

Jack: No, he called the cop.

Cristina: Oh, so he was calling him while it happened.

Jack: Yes, yes, yes. This is recent. This is very recent. These are recent. These are on cell phones.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: This is self. These are recorded.

Cristina: Calling the cop.

Jack: Yeah. He calls a cop about this.

Cristina: He sees this lady.

Jack: Yeah. He's like, there's something weird going on. I don't know if you want to check it out or whatever. The. About this lady in the woods. Yeah. Now, again, this doesn't mean anything yet. It's as we go through this that the problem arises. This next scenario, again, all police reports so far happens near Cross Castle. On the other side, local police receive a call. A woman wandering by Cross Castle in a large white raincoat or a nightgown. Raincoat or a nightgown. Okay. The report claims the caller thought she was living at Cross Castle. So essentially a squatter.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: And when the caller approached, she vanished. He suspected she ran into the surrounding woods or behind a tree or something. And he also reported that he thought the squatter was a schizophrenic of some sort because he continued to hear whispers as he was looking for her.

Cristina: Horrified. Okay.

Jack: Very rational man, though. Every step of his report was.

Cristina: I don't know how he made it past. Like, she disappeared. Okay. I'm gonna still investigate, even though I hear all this whispering, like, okay, I predict white guy. Oh, my gosh. Okay.

Jack: Okay. The reservoir. This is by the lake. Local police report that they received a call from a woman seemingly considered a call of a woman. I apologize. A call of a woman seemingly considering suicide by the lake. She was standing by the water's edge to the person who saw her looking like she was, you know, considering hopping in by their interpretation of the scenario. She was standing in front of the water, kind of like just looking at the water for a really long time. And he got concerned.

Cristina: That's a tough one to imagine. Yeah.

Jack: I don't know. You can just call on a person like that. It's crazy. Okay. When asked by the officer to get the woman's attention, the caller yells out to her and she turns to him, then seemingly vanishes before his eyes.

Cristina: What is she wearing?

Jack: Local police report received a woman considering. No, not. No specifics.

Cristina: Oh, no.

Jack: White caller claimed something was weird about her face before she vanished. Unclear. And then this is by a really tight curve called Dead man's Curve on Clinton Road. The report is of a woman standing close the curb, either threatening to jump in front of a car or scaring cars. Driver report, car ahead and car behind. Were swerving to dodge her. And she was in a white trench coat or something similar. He didn't know where she ran off to. When he'd finished dodging her, she'd run away or hidden before scaring the car a few seconds behind.

Cristina: How many cars was involved in that one?

Jack: You must have been in line, like three or four cars coming through.

Cristina: Interesting. Okay.

Jack: Okay. These are random, just police reports. You kind of get the theme going on.

Cristina: Yes, lady.

Jack: Yeah. Ladies tend to be in some kind of white something.

Cristina: Yeah, we're trying to attempt suicide for some reason.

Jack: So I'm going to tell you four different stories that aren't those stories.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And we're gonna quickly discuss that. Okay, so we're gonna start with the obvious one, the lady in white. This lady is known as a lady who roams around the lake. There's basically, you know, the myths of the area.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: She roams around the woods, the road, the lake itself, and is described as looking for something dressed in a white gown or robe, coat or dress of some sort, sad or expressionless. And the lady in white is seen the most often. That's important.

Cristina: These are all different. Ladies. Question mark.

Jack: Question mark indeed. Woman in the gown. A woman in the ground by. In a gown by Cross Castle or the ruins thereof. Only ever reported following KKK gatherings or late 1960s occult rituals. Now, this is where it gets interesting for me because do you. Do you get. Do you follow? Is my thought right? Young girl in a dress reported by the bridge and roadside. Seen often with the kid by the bridge tossing the coins. Seen less often in modern day, but more often in the past.

Cristina: But there's nothing about her.

Jack: No details.

Jack: Hitchhiker or damsel in distress. Always seen roadside. Always trying to catch the attention of a driver while asking for help. Seen way less often now, way more often in the past. Oh man. Okay, so what do you think so far? Let's unpack some of this information. What do you think so far?

Cristina: It's hard to tell if they're like just ghosts. Are these echoes? Cuz like I don't know if they're doing the same thing over and over or what's happening really the big problem, right?

Jack: What the f*** is going on? Because they seem to be a bunch of different instances that aren't the same. One in a loop.

Cristina: And if it's just one lady and she's all these people, then what's that about? I guess that's also another option. But like I don't feel like it is one per.

Jack: Why not?

Cristina: Because sometimes it's a girl, sometimes it's older. Like the age ranges feels different from how they're describing this person. It could be they do.

Jack: They do. But I'll go over some of this again. A hundred percent they do. A hundred percent they do. But I noted something from this very idea. Right. So I'm gonna go over this one again. Lady in white roams the area around the lake, the woods and the road. Described as looking for something. See dress in a white gown, robe, coat or dress of some sort. Sad or expressionless. And this one is seen the most often in modern day. She's the most seen currently. She was less seen in the past. Important. The woman in the gown. The woman in the ground in the gown by Cross Castle. How did I mess that up in the same spot by Cross Castle or the ruins thereof. Only ever reported following the KKK gatherings in the 1960s.

Cristina: What about the one with the boy? The girl that's hanging out with the boy, what is that?

Jack: The young girl in a dress reported by the bridge and roadside. Seen often with the kid by the bridge tossing coins. Seen less often modern day, but seen more often in the past.

Cristina: Like if this is a time thing then it doesn't really matter. So shouldn't they all be seen equally? Even if it's the same person? It's like we're watching their timeline playing over and over.

Jack: Except we are literally getting when these reports are coming from.

Cristina: But why would it be different? Like of how often one is seen versus the other if it's out of time anyway, like we should be seeing her as a girl. And as an adult, equally as much. Because it's unrelated.

Jack: Why do you.

Cristina: Even if it's the same person, why.

Jack: Do we think it's out of time?

Cristina: Because she's probably existing in the. I guess I do feel like maybe it's an echo. I guess it's hard not to see it. Like, just we're seeing different versions of this one person living out their life. But then again, it doesn't make sense. Maybe. I guess the most sense would be it's just an echo person. Not an echo person, a shadow person.

Jack: Why? Wait, wait, wait.

Cristina: I don't know. Because she's playing with a boy. That makes it seem a little different.

Jack: Maybe the boy is an echo too, based on that logic. Right.

Cristina: If he's an echo. Yeah. Like, I don't know, it's easy to see that her as an echo. But then, like, why would one time period be more popular in one time period of ours? Like, what would make the difference of seeing her younger back then and her older now? Unless she's maybe more of a shadow realm person, because then she ages. But if she's an echo, why, it would all be happening right now.

Jack: Yeah, but based on what we're talking about, then she actually is aging because she's already aged. No, no, no. What we're talking about is that basically she was younger in the past and older now. That's just aging through time.

Cristina: Yes. These are all moments of her aging and at a different time, so it wouldn't matter.

Jack: The order is all the older ones in the future, all the older ones are happening now, and all the younger ones are happening earlier, which makes it.

Cristina: Seem less of an echo because why would it matter?

Jack: No. Yeah, it's definitely not an echo.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: I'm saying it's just a. Like a living something.

Cristina: Yes, yes. It has to be.

Jack: Yeah. It's currently something that's aged. Right. That's what we're looking at. Somebody's been living there.

Cristina: Because if it was just an echo, it would be all versions.

Jack: Yeah, randomly. Why would it be of the same person if it was an echo?

Cristina: But then the way you worded it is like, they see her less now, but they see her more now. Like, of different versions.

Jack: Yeah. They see the lady in the white dress. That lady is seen the most current day.

Cristina: But that doesn't mean they don't see the young girl or the other young lady.

Jack: We also have to remember the place we're talking about and people just talking random s***.

Cristina: So they're just sharing.

Jack: Yeah, this is majority Rules. And by vast majority. Does it rule in all of these instances? It's by vast majority. I summarize it. And I'll explain that later too.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But these are ultimately collections of reports.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: That summarize into this, into these four different groups of people. And those stories were actual police reports that fit these suits very accurately. Like they're not definitely reporting different individuals as opposed to one person who seems to be kind of moving through time, it seems to me.

Cristina: Yeah. Yeah, I guess.

Jack: But that's what we're supposed to find out ultimately, right?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Because I don't actually know. And we have no clue what is. Like, what would she be doing there if she was a person living there?

Cristina: Well, scaring people. She's obviously scaring people. She's jumping to the road. She's pretending she's committing suicide, which could.

Jack: Suggest she's some sort of a shadow.

Cristina: Yeah. All her behaviors seem really shadow realm.

Jack: What other behavior seems shadow realmy to you?

Cristina: Just like throwing pebbles at people while they're driving by with a kid. Like she might be trying to scare them. She just seems like she's trying to scare people. Different. In different ways. In different ways that aren't like horrifying, but like scared for her, which is still.

Jack: But then this brings into question the nature of Clinton Road. Right. Like, is what's happening in there that creatures in the shadow. Like, maybe this place is so tightly connected that people that live in the shadow realm come to their side of this place because it's so well connected. It's a place where feasibly you could have had adrenochrome on this side, cross over when you die. And then come and live around this area and be as close to some earth like place as possible. Because then why is she just living at the castle? And why does it look like a castle to her?

Cristina: We don't know what it looks like to her.

Jack: Fair she's just living there. Unless she's actually living at these. This castle.

Cristina: They're just saying she does because she's by them.

Jack: Yes. She doesn't actually have to live there.

Cristina: No. She lives in the area or she's visiting the area often.

Jack: And then the description I always heard about the white dress, but it got real complicated when it turned into coat. Yeah. In a gown, a robe, a raincoat or a dress. Always white.

Cristina: That sounds like she's just living around that area because you'd have to change clothes eventually. Like, she's not a cartoonist.

Jack: No, I don't think these cases are one Person saying she's changing to all of these. I think all the different cases are like, I think she was.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: You know, look like this.

Cristina: Yeah. Because we can't really tell.

Jack: Yeah, they can't really tell.

Cristina: Yeah. And like even the color of the clothes maybe we can't really see what color it is. So it looks white.

Jack: Exactly.

Cristina: It might not actually be wherever she is.

Jack: Yes, yes, yes. Or if she is actually on this side.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like they're moving in a car. Unwilling in most of these cases to get out because they're paranoid and they're like, what if this is just some crazy from the woods and she's just gonna stab me? Or.

Cristina: But they all seem scared, even though it's mostly it's for her. Like, oh, I'm worried about her. Kind of.

Jack: Yeah. It's always fear of some sort. Interesting. That's a different kind of fear. Sympathetic fear.

Cristina: Yes. That's exactly what she seems to be feeding on then.

Jack: Except sometimes she doesn't. She's just like standing in traffic. Maybe she starts fading.

Cristina: Sometimes it gets in traffic. That's horrifying.

Jack: That's f****** horrifying.

Cristina: What are you talking about? Yeah, so horrifying.

Jack: Just a chick shows up out of nowhere in a white.

Cristina: Yeah. Like there's no way you don't get scared in the moment. I don't know.

Jack: No, it's f*****. It's just being there. It doesn't matter. Just being there. It works.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It's a place to live. If you took adrenochrome, I bet that place is CRO. That's why.

Cristina: Yes. I don't know.

Jack: It's just active. There's just people living in the woods together, being cool buddy buddy with one another. Because it's like home instead of whatever the. The shadow realm.

Cristina: She's probably not hanging out with the boy, cuz I think the boy is an echo. So she's just really just watching and amazing like everyone else. Like.

Jack: Yeah, like how weird.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: That's an interesting point. I haven't thought about that like actively, but I remember having like the brief moment of do. Does an echo play the same. In the same spatial location of the shadow realm?

Cristina: Possibly because they find this echo, this space where the echoes are living are, is as interesting for some reason.

Jack: Yes. And they can go there easily from their side. So it must physically be the same location somehow, even if warped.

Cristina: So there might be some echoes of our. Of beings that are from here and some echoes that are beings from them over there.

Jack: And that would explain really Weird, like things we can't track. Yeah, because it's like. It's not even even like the weird.

Cristina: Sounds that could be creatures that could. Maybe Those are echo sounds. Like shadow realm echoes.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking that definitely. How strange. We've never come across that thought because. Right. But then that's weird. I would not. If it's a time. If an echo is a time distortion, not actually a dead person.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Then it's just a sort of snapshot of one of their moments too, being shown at a random time somewhere in that spot. Somewhere in a realm in that place.

Cristina: Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I think it's important somehow, this whole time distortion thing, for real. I think so. That's why there are scientists working there and doing something and then something horrible is gonna happen. I don't know.

Jack: Now that's interesting. Right, Because I think. I think I found that too, but.

Cristina: More about what's gonna happen.

Jack: Not what's gonna happen or what has happened, but. Well, I'll explain. Now I'm gonna talk about public records, not police records. This is a summarized. This is not literally word for word. This is simplified to get the information across as quickly as possible. There's public records about a lot of different sets of information. Right. Okay. I'm just gonna look at them. We're gonna look at the information together.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And we gonna have a conversation about this information. Okay. So the first mention of any female in the woods of Clinton Road in some kind of a white something was in 1965. Described as pale young female, homeless, roughly 5, 4.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Just random information.

Cristina: That is random.

Jack: Doesn't mean anything. But this was a robed young lady.

Cristina: Robed?

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a gown type of. She fits this lady obviously fits the. All the women we're talking about fit the dress code.

Cristina: Okay. White, homeless.

Jack: No. Homeless. No. This is just part of what's in this document.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Descriptors. I took out the word and put the whole sentence. Okay. Now I'm gonna tell you about a period of time between 1950 and 1970. Okay. In 1952, there were first reports of a satanic ritual or satanic rituals. We'll say satanic activity at Cross Castle. This gets noted. And this is just in the documents being recorded in history. There's been reports, you know, just 1950s, 1952. So Satanists. Ooh, they're Satanists. In. In the. In the ruins of the castle.

Cristina: How old is that castle?

Jack: Ancient.

Cristina: Because. Do you have the Date of when it was a castle.

Jack: It was a ca. I have a date when it stopped being a castle.

Cristina: Oh, what's that?

Jack: 1988.

Cristina: 1988. And it was ruins in 1952.

Jack: It wasn't ruins.

Cristina: It was still a castle.

Jack: It was still a castle. What? It wasn't an inhabited castle.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: I think you think it was a castle, though.

Cristina: I like the history of this castle. When are we gonna get to that?

Jack: That's happening for sure.

Cristina: Okay, but just not today.

Jack: That's happening for sure. You're gonna understand why we have to look at this castle. Everything. Everything aims at the we. I told you. The castle comes last. There's too much. And it all points to the castle. So obviously we have to save the castle for last. It's the obvious conclusion. There's something weird going on in that.

Cristina: Castle because I want to know about it before the quote, unquote, uncle Today's. I know, I know, but, like, there had to have been weird things happening.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Before.

Jack: Yeah. Yeah.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: So that castle is gonna be a while.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: It's gonna be not just from now, but like the cat. The episode is gonna be hefty good stuff.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay, okay, okay, okay. So satanic rituals, 1952. First time we get satanic rituals happening at this castle.

Cristina: What do people consider satanic? They're in robes. They've gotta be sultanic.

Jack: Interesting point. Right. Interesting point. Unrelated to this castle per se, but rather spoken of throughout the woods, many different groups of robed people. Consistently, the two most used words are KKK members and druids.

Cristina: And how do they. Like, can you tell the difference? I mean, I guess you assume because they're dressed in white, they're kkk. But, like, what if the druids just happen to be wearing white?

Jack: Exactly.

Cristina: How do you. How do you know what you're like?

Jack: Because it would just be a robe. It doesn't matter the color. Right. It's just the style.

Cristina: Yeah. So is it one or the other.

Jack: Code of a black robe?

Cristina: Exactly. How do they know? How do they know? I don't know. There's something wrong with the story, but.

Jack: Okay. In 1955, investigations are demanded by the mayor of the time, Arthur McAdams. This forced the local police to work with the Newark Watershed Conservation and Development Corporation, or nwcdc, owners of the Clinton Road and the forest surrounding it.

Cristina: To do what?

Jack: To begin investigations to find out about those satanic individuals.

Cristina: How do they do that?

Jack: Are they a danger? I guess patrol and, like, Set up ways to, you know, keep it safe for people so dangerous stuff doesn't happen. So he's just gonna look and see if there was ever anything, Two years later, in 1957, investigations are concluded and produce no proof of any claim. Yeah, checks out. Like, I don't know what you. How you were performing, what were you doing for two years.

Cristina: Like, bruh, they're just walking around and they couldn't see any ghosts because maybe that at the end of the day, these so called satanic ritual people are just ghosts. And like, what are the chances? It's really random though. You stumble upon them. So why would you. When you're looking for them? I mean.

Jack: Yeah, that's fair.

Cristina: And not just ghosts, but like, there could be shadow people, they could be whatever. But like, you don't just look for them, they just. It just happens. And then you have a story, I guess.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: So that's probably why Casta didn't find anything because they were just. They were looking. And like, you can't scare someone who's expecting you.

Jack: This fascinating logic. I'm kind of bad. I'm trying to process this because this absolutely, like checks out so heftily. It's like there's so. I'm so baffled by the fact that we've gone through so much data and one of the most consistent things in the world is that the investigators always come out empty handed. But people will sometimes. We've shown. We've shown on the show. I mean, I haven't shown the viewers, but I've shown you. And we've looked at some of these things. Some videos of actual things have happened. We've looked at photos, we've looked at literal speeches. It's never from people who are looking. It's never from the cops, it's never from the authorities. It's from everyone else. The people who are like, oh my God, what the.

Cristina: Because they're going to be affected emotionally. They're the ones that is what's feeding.

Jack: Whatever this is while people looking for it just think they're gonna find something not disturbing already.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And there's no fear to begin the ball rolling.

Cristina: Yeah. And if, like, even if they feel fear, they're gonna push it back because they got a job to do, trained.

Jack: To push it back.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: That is. Bravery is pushing the fear down.

Cristina: Weak food. If they were gonna do something about that.

Jack: Interesting. This is interesting. This probably. You could probably find so many moments in which this happened. How very interesting. I know. I remember so many. But now this Is. That's a great point at looking at. Because anytime we see, oh, there's so many reports and the cops just find nothing, there's something weird going on there.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: That's another thing that's just weird and unnormal.

Cristina: And I doubt it's that they're hiding it. Yes. They really.

Jack: They found nothing.

Cristina: Can't find anything.

Jack: There's nothing in them. They found nothing interesting. I like that. Fascinating. Also in 1957, Mayor McAdam resigns a month later.

Cristina: That's unrelated to anything.

Jack: Unrelated to any information. Just details.

Cristina: The people were like, you wasted everyone's time. You gotta go, I don't know.

Jack: 1965, this is a huge time leap. This is eight years later. First mention of a female of any description in the woods surrounding Clinton Roads is mentioned. Female in white dress.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: 1966. This is where it gets kind of. I didn't know about this one. This one just happened while I was looking for things. Black cars are reported coming in and out of Clinton Road day and night. Black cars, black cars, unmarked black cars coming in and out.

Cristina: What do you think that's about?

Jack: There were so many f****** reports of this s***. I don't know how this didn't make, like, national news or some s***. There were so many. There were hundreds people calling in to City hall about, who the f*** are these people coming in out of town. There were reports. I don't know, dude. People calling into the police station like, there's shady people who I've seen. They think it's the same person. Some people. Some people think it's different people. It's like there was so much. There were hundreds of. Just different, like, reports, records, and like, everything. Everything under the sun. This just kept showing up, but only for this short period of time.

Cristina: What was the period again?

Jack: Well, we'll get to the end of the period of time in a bit, but. And it's, like, weird. That's really weird. This just shows up, drowns everything, and then just poof. Never mentioned again. 1969. That's three years later.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Final reports of Satanic, druid or black car activity all stop simultaneously. Just done. 1971. First reports of KKK presence in the area.

Cristina: Okay. The Druids transform.

Jack: Now I'm not saying anything. This is just information. I cut this information out specifically because it built an image I thought was important. But let's talk about it. What does this seem like to you? We have, in 1952, satanic rituals are happening in the castle. Then three years later, 1955 people are kind of getting freaked out because they're.

Cristina: Seeing the lady or.

Jack: No, no, this is just about satanic rituals happening in the area, specifically around the castle. So three years later of reports just happening consistently, investigations are demanded, and the mayor goes ahead and jumps into action, and he gets together with the people who own it, the nwcdc, and they start doing whatever the f*** they were gonna do.

Cristina: But then the.

Jack: And then the mayor quits about this random. I'm not saying it's about this random, but like, he quits a month later after the thing is done.

Cristina: And then some suspicious people come, and then some suspicious.

Jack: Well, no, then the lady shows up, the girl.

Cristina: Oh, in a dress.

Jack: A girl in a dress. There's just a girl in a dress. First report of a girl in a dress wandering the woods. And then we get black cars coming in and out for three years straight. Black cars coming in and out. People reporting over and over and over, reports with these f****** weird cars. Final report of satanic druid or black car activity happens at the end of the three year period of the black cars. All three just suddenly, poof, gone. And then two years from that point, oh, there's KKK in the area. That's what's happening.

Cristina: I don't know. That's. I don't know. Tell me what's happening.

Jack: I don't know, man. Like, if you've ever seen a cover up, probably looks like that photo of what?

Cristina: Oh, yeah, like, right.

Jack: Is that what I'm looking at? Am I delusional? Does it look like the narrative changed really hard suddenly?

Cristina: Yes, but what did the cars have to do with anything?

Jack: This is very interesting. Right? So cars show up, but cars show up after the lady does. And that's pretty interesting. The first mention of the lady happens in 1965. And then from 1966 to 1969, black.

Cristina: Cars, druids summoned some creature who looks like a lady.

Jack: And then they came to something weird was happening. Something weird was happening in 1952 where the first reports happened of something. And satanic rituals, whatever. Those are Druids. Those are some Hermes like guys.

Cristina: They were summoning creatures from the shadow realm or something. Something not really summoning. It would be more like opening portals, Something.

Jack: Right. And then people started to panic. So then they tell the mayor or whatever means led to this investigation. And Mayor McAdams is like, okay, whatever, I'm a little gimbal. It's. And so he gets the people who own it to work with the local police and look into it. And they find nothing. And then he quits. Okay, you found nothing that's not worth quitting over. Is this like what they made you do it? Whatever. How would a crazy big political stick handle? Like, no, this s***? Nobody gives a s***. Why'd you quit?

Cristina: He for sure quit.

Jack: He resigned. Was literally what happened. He resigned his position at Monthly. It doesn't have to be related. It could literally just be unrelated. I don't know what the 1950s were like. Maybe everybody was quitting back then.

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: You know, just pattern. I threw that there because pattern. It looks relative. I don't know.

Cristina: Seems strange.

Jack: Yeah, it's weird. It's notable. Somebody felt like they needed to write it down, so. Right. He works with those people. The investigations are concluded. In 1957, nothing is found. And then that same year, a month later, he quits. Okay. Then in 1965, eight years later, a mention of a lady in white, a girl, a young girl in a white dress in the woods surrounding Clinton Road is reported consistently. Just suddenly everybody saw this girl.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: 1966, the next year, it's abundantly reported. So presumably began little by little of black cars coming in and out. And then it's just. 1966 is like, this is ridiculous at this point.

Cristina: Why is there so many black cars?

Jack: Why are there so many like, tinted window, black cars coming in and out. These indescript black cars coming in and out.

Cristina: Investigating. The real investigation has started.

Jack: Real investigation has begun. That has to be it. Right? Like, we've never discussed them in a black on this show.

Cristina: No.

Jack: And like, you know, it doesn't seem like they're real to me. It sounds like some crazy people make up. And you know, we watch, we listen to other shows like Mysterious Universe where they often discuss the men in black showing up for things. But like, d***, bro, we cross paths with them now, that kind of looks like what happened right now.

Cristina: I think we'll find out. They're scientists, I don't think.

Jack: I think everybody is.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Or they work for powerful science. Yeah, Big science.

Cristina: Big science, yeah.

Jack: You know, everything is. Everything is ruled by big science ultimately. But yeah, that's weird. Hey, that's. That's really what happened. The real investigation to coming in and out, taking samples and doing research and in shifts, most likely.

Cristina: Yeah, probably for the sea people, I guess. I don't know. Big science.

Jack: I don't know who big science belongs to. Right. And then with the, with the sudden stop of reports of black cars, we also get the sudden stop of reports of Any satanic activity, druid activity, or black cars coming through, all of it's just gone.

Cristina: But we don't know if it's really gone, if there's just KKK. Like, I don't know if those are really KKK's or those are just Juliets who are now in ya. Like, how do I know?

Jack: They're controlling the narrative. Do they own the police?

Cristina: How do I know?

Jack: No, you get my point. Like, nah, bro, it's weird. It all stopped. Yeah, that's where it's weird. It's weird at all.

Cristina: I don't know why we replace one weird thing with another weird thing. Like, yeah, no, because it's more believable.

Jack: It's just racism.

Cristina: I know. Like, but still, it's so bad. Like, wouldn't you still won't people still be complaining?

Jack: Like, I think they'll just leave it alone because the KKK is a legal organization.

Cristina: Okay. That's right.

Jack: Yeah. Even then, weirdly enough, it was illegal and still is a legal organization. Some of them do sketchy s***.

Cristina: They shouldn't, but they're not.

Jack: But it's legal organization.

Cristina: They're not satanic as far as we can tell.

Jack: As far as we can tell. Right. Okay, now I'm gonna tell you about some different mentions of a lady in white. Let me correct that. Of a female in white. That matters. Female in white. This is a collection summarized again, it includes public records, police records, state records, Reddit posts, weird New Jersey blogs, and other related sources of this nature.

Cristina: Everything, everything.

Jack: All the mentions that people are like, I saw something equal parts. I made sure it was equal parts from all of them.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: To summarize the ultimate logic of what I'm about to explain, this is also focus on time. Now, all these stories that I'm about to give you were told to these people by somebody in their family about this area.

Cristina: These are all stories.

Jack: These are all passed down stories. Not one of these is lived except the police records and the public records, which were literally. And the state records, those all existed prior to the Internet. These were just somehow mentioned one way or another. The Reddit, the weird New Jersey and the blogs, that's all people who've been told.

Cristina: That's what we're gonna do.

Jack: And a lot of the public records were transcribed with notations explaining that they were filling in some of the information that was lost through a flood or something. So a little bit of interpretation needs to be had for the pub, for some of these public records. But it doesn't matter when you see this consistency. 1965, a female in a nightgown is seen wandering the woods near Cross Castle. Female is in white. Either a raincoat. Oh, no, she's in a white raincoat, seen wandering and inspecting Cross Castle. Female in a nightgown exploring the reservoir lake. Those are the three. Female in a nightgown seen wandering the woods near Cross Castle. Female in a white raincoat, seen wandering, inspecting Cross Castle. Female in a nightgown exploring the reservoir lake. All of these happened 1965. Many, many, many, many mentions.

Cristina: Okay, these are like police reports.

Jack: Police reports, public records, state records, stuff like that.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And like two of these were, oh, my granddad said something about whatever the f***. Reddit seems to be the most informed about what my grandfather said. 1966, the most consistent mention. Female in a nightgown reported sitting on the edge of the bridge where we would see the kid.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: This was heftily reported at that time. It's still reported and it's been reported ever since. A lot of people online who see it all the time. There's a lot of people who. But it was so mentioned back then. And this is one year after the first mentions, which were the previous three. One year later. It's important to note that 1965 and 1966, the most common word in reports and mentions of any sort was girl, often paired with the word young. So young girl consistently being a descriptor. 1969, female, again, young girl, white dress, reported coming from the woods, screaming for help before disappearing. Happened consistently. Female, young girl, white dress, seen crying by the bridge, reported consistently. Female, young girl, white dress, seen wandering by the woods, reported consistently. 1972, three years later, female in white, dead now. So those three years, those were the reports we were getting. Basically, that's where that whole period of time, those who were throwing in there. So 1972, female in white dress or gown, scaring traffic and endangering drivers. That happens until 1977. Female in a white raincoat attempting to lure people into the forest.

Cristina: How so?

Jack: Trying to call them in. Help me and come in here.

Cristina: So, yeah, that was the last one of it.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Okay. Shadow Realm creature. I don't know. What else could it be?

Jack: I know, I know, man. I don't know. I don't know. Same person, it seems to be. Or if. If. Okay, let's play devil's advocate and say multiple women. Why are they all this uniform thing. They're all lost in this wood. They're all, oh, my God, help me. Can you take me out of here? Hitchhikers. Oh, please get me out. Some are sad. Oh, please, can I kill myself? Can I die?

Cristina: I don't know. I mean, it could be multiple things.

Jack: Are they running experiments on these girls and they're getting like phase in between and they just can't die. They're just stuck in these woods. Why is it always dressed the same? That's what's with me.

Cristina: Except we don't know if it's really white clothing.

Jack: We don't know. We don't know. But it's always bright enough that everybody thinks it's white at all times.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it's bright enough that everybody unmistakably.

Cristina: We don't have the same. We don't have enough details to actually know it's the same person.

Jack: We. We don't have any physical details. Yeah, there been some people who gave them, but it varied so widely it didn't matter.

Cristina: Yeah. So it could totally be different people. It could be the same. I don't know if it's the same person. I think shadow realm creature if it's not. I kind of still think shadow realm creature. Creatures who just use the same skill. Like some type of animal or whatever.

Jack: Like incubus or some s***.

Cristina: Yeah. Yeah.

Jack: I don't know, man. I don't know, man. There's some things here that totally throw me off. What's. What is it with raincoat?

Cristina: It's different outfits, though.

Jack: I think the description of the outfit stays pretty consistent though, because we have a raincoat, a nightgown. We have a nightgown. We have a robe or a dress. I would argue the dress is the outlier there.

Cristina: I don't know how. Robe and a raincoat.

Jack: They're all flat down.

Cristina: Are you saying like they look similar?

Jack: I think they all look similar. I think it's the same one outfit. Why? What they. She's got a color preference and can't choose anything but white.

Cristina: That's the.

Jack: They think she's not a Power Ranger, man.

Cristina: She's not wearing white. That's what I think. I don't know.

Jack: But why are they all so bright? Or maybe she's glowing.

Cristina: Maybe she's kiss. She's some type of creature of creatures.

Jack: They're all creatures, always in white. Always in white.

Cristina: Different creatures, same plan.

Jack: Very bright, maybe.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: No, but if she's just fluorescent or bright, then she wouldn't look white. Her colors would be more obvious because it wouldn't be dark. Her colors would be unnaturally vibrant.

Cristina: Yes. I don't think she's a Ghost or echo. She's some kind of.

Jack: Seems logical. Like she's moving around. Right. It sees there.

Cristina: Yes. There might be still more than one.

Jack: Well, let me propose some things here. Some experiments were being done. Maybe they're still being done somewhere. The castle's gone, but, you know, somewhere in the woods there on the ground, whatever. And young girls are what they use. And so, you know, they use them. Whatever. We tried whatever experiment that phased you in between the. Whatever the. And it didn't work or did work or I don't know what the they're doing. And then they're like, okay, get the out. We don't care what you do now.

Cristina: Yeah. Because like, even if they ran away, they're stuck because they're in some type.

Jack: Of limbo and they've had some of them survive and figure out if I keep scaring people or saying here that it's scary already, I won't die or whatever, I won't disappear, go crazy or whatever the.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: You know, maybe they figured that out. Maybe the few have figured that out. But there was a uniform they were wearing at whatever facility they were being experimented on.

Cristina: Yeah. They're usually dressed in white.

Jack: We know the children are leaving from our realm. That's a fact.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: There's no question about it. The fact that we're kidnapping all the children, are being kidnapped by all the rich people and being sold to the shadow realm. So somebody's running experiments. Maybe it's not even the shadow realm of the experiments are being run. Maybe we're still just trying to figure out how to cross realms easily. They're stuck in the woods. Why don't they get out? And we didn't never hear about them getting out. They don't think we have heard about some getting out, but they're stuck on the other side.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: They just leave the woods and make it somewhere else in the shadow realm. That happens to be on our side too.

Cristina: What do you mean?

Jack: Because although many of these mentions started here, they do show up all over the world later. Almost all of them.

Cristina: That's true.

Jack: Almost everything that's come from Clinton Road.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And that region.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: I didn't even realize. The headless horse. That blows my freaking mind. That that originated there God knows how long ago and that spread everywhere.

Cristina: I guess. That is weird.

Jack: It's weird, right?

Cristina: They're coming from there because of the powerful spots.

Jack: Because it's a powerful spot. They're coming from there. They're leaving there.

Cristina: Which is weird because you think it'd be Where a mountain is. But that has nothing to do with it. Well, that's something related more to the sea people than it does to the shadow realm.

Jack: Yes. Because we know the shadow realm and forests get along the law. The Vikings got it. And it looks like we're. We're getting pretty close to, like, we don't know what happened, but.

Cristina: Gotta be some dead fairies in there, bro.

Jack: There's a dead everything in there.

Cristina: There's dead fairies. There's got to be fairy trees in that forest.

Jack: There must be fairy trees for a fact. I'm sure there are shadow creatures that have been killed in there. And I am so sure that so many people were sacrificed in those woods.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: To make it what it is.

Cristina: Yeah. It's too strange. It's too. Too much is happening.

Jack: Too much that runs together. Option number two, Maybe it's not a bunch of little girls. Gown, robe and raincoat are very similar. Not the dress. Another thing that would fit in place of the dress would be lab coat. It fits exactly the same as a robe, as a raincoat or a gown. Could be a lab coat.

Cristina: You're seeing a scientist.

Jack: Could be literal scientists that you're looking at. But that doesn't make sense. So why would they say that? And they wouldn't think that, so they would think robe or this or that instead. Just spitballing. I don't know.

Cristina: That's weird. But, like, if a scientist lady was yelling at you, I don't know if you'd pay attention. I don't know.

Jack: I don't know.

Cristina: It's a weird one. Okay.

Jack: Okay. Now I'm gonna tell you a bit of information, and then I'm gonna tell you all the years in which it happened. All the following years and mentions are all in a white raincoat and identically described. They are all summarized into these specific descriptions. Ultimately, every mention following these years, the descriptions are, one, wandering around the castle, Two, watching cars roadside, Three, throwing something near the bridge. Four, picking something up from under the bridge, and five, collecting water, doing something to the water, or wandering around the water of the lake. And the years that this is mentioned in crazy amounts. It was important to mention the specific years because that was the weirder part. 1991, 1992, 1993 suddenly stops until 1999, then again, 2001-2002-2003-2004, and then it stops until 2009. And then it stops again until 2019-2020-2021-2022, and then it stopped again. No mentions last year, no mentions this.

Cristina: Year of her at all of her.

Jack: In a raincoat, specifically doing any of those things I said all those suddenly stopped any year I didn't mention every year I did mention it was just going on. That's exactly who the f*** she was and what she was doing.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: 91, 92, 93, huge jump. 99, 91.

Cristina: I mean, 2001, those other years that you didn't mention she was.

Jack: No mention of her in this very description.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And the mentions of her in general were low. But no mentions of her in the lab coat or raincoat.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: I picked this out because of the lab coat idea. These are just her in what people literally said a raincoat. She's just in a raincoat.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And it. 91, 92, 93, jump to 99. 201. 02, 03, 04, jump to 09, jump 10 years to 209 to 2192-020202-12022. And then no mentions for two years. Strange stranger is the fact that 1991, there were the bombings at the Twin Towers that made people think there was a terrorist invasion happening. Weirder is that right before Y2K quote, unquote. 1999, active dies for 2024. I mean, 2000, when nothing is happening. And then 2001 rolls by and the Twin Towers get struck. And again, people have this fear of, oh, okay, terrorism.

Cristina: So now you're leading towards. She's gotta be some type of shadow realm creature.

Jack: And then we have 02, 03, 04, active kind of dies out for a little. And again in 09, not sure what that's about. And then 2019 suddenly pops up and is mentioned all the way to 2022, and then suddenly dies again.

Cristina: And if we look up those years, something bad you think happened, something horrible.

Jack: So somewhere, 01 through 04, she could be coasting off of the fear from, you know, war against terrorism or whatever we were saying at the time. 09, I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened on that. Obama got elected. Were people that scared? I don't know about that. I couldn't figure it out. I couldn't figure that one out. What's weird about 2019 is you showed up before the virus. The virus began in December. These mentions were happening all the way from January.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Popped up suddenly. Thick, heavy. How she beat the virus by, like, she beat the mention of even there's something wrong by, like, nine months. That's weird. That wasn't fear. That tells me something very Different. That tells me somebody can either measure when something is gonna happen somehow looking forward and show up ahead of time to get things in order.

Cristina: Yeah, makes sense.

Jack: Or somebody can orchestrate things happening.

Cristina: I don't know. But like, why would she be doing all of that? She's just in the right place at the right time.

Jack: In none of those instances was she not in Clinton Road.

Cristina: Yeah, exactly. She can't do anything. She's just there waiting for these events to happen.

Jack: And Clinton Road is what? Why is it channeling crap that happens elsewhere also just throwing information out there. If Clinton Road is pulling, presumably the castle of Cross Castle or the railroad or whatever the crap is happening. The mines, One of those two. Probably the mines, realistically. But one of those two is pulling in this energy that gets formed on this side so that it could be used by things from the other side. Is that what Santa Claus figured out? A channeling system where little amounts from across the world and get pulled into where he lives that he barely leaves.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And he could reserve that to do crazy s*** like move the whole world in one night.

Cristina: I don't know. Because I feel like you need a stone for something like that.

Jack: Maybe he built it with a stone.

Cristina: Okay. Then there's gotta be a stone that was built in that. I guess the conclusion still is that there was or is going to be a stone in that spot.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Because the stones are somehow related.

Jack: This is what I mean. Like, it's obvious. Obviously, the miner, the castle, got something weird. And one of those two places, without a doubt, we're gonna find something nuts that's gonna answer a craft ton of questions. But there's so much going on. I'd rather see if we could figure it out before we get there.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Because there's so much to go through.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And like, I don't know, man. What does it look like? It looks like the problem is the aging problem. Right. So it could also be that maybe this is a scientist that grew up there. Not grew up there, but she was young, she aged working here. She understands the woods. And so people have seen her many times. And maybe sometimes she's running experiments. What makes me think that is the collecting water, doing something to the water or wandering around the water by the lake, also running experiments, like try to.

Cristina: Tell them that she needs help.

Jack: I think I have a theory about that. I have a theory about that. I think she is an inevitable scientist. I think she's like one of these other people who went through a weird series of events and then joined something like the. The earth gods or the sun gods or something. It was like, okay, by chance, you seem to fit a weird role we can make for you. I think she kind of fits that in that maybe weird experiments were. In fact, this might. This is my theory in the background, right?

Cristina: You think this is from the past, though, or the future?

Jack: From the past. I think in 1952, Druids showed up and were doing some experiments intentionally trying to do something. Maybe they were experimenting on some chick, probably trying to recreate people or what, I don't know. Probably trying to do something similar to biblical things. I don't know. And this girl that was. Girl at that point was one of the subjects or whatever the crap. And she, you know, got whatever happened phased or stuck or maybe not even. Maybe she can leave and like, who the f*** knows? Maybe she can. Maybe she's the one who can actually f****** just come and go. I don't know. But she then freaks out at the beginning, and we see her a bunch running and asking for help. Help me. Can you see me? Do you see me? And she's crying by the lake and crying by the bridge. And that's all at the beginning, all that together. Young girl, crying and confused. But as she gets older and as the descriptions get more away from girl and start leaning towards lady, then, you know, she's over it. It seems like a person who's been dealing with it for a while. Again, my theory, I don't know. Been dealing with it for a while because the mentions of girl and the mentions of crying and asking for help kind of fizzle out. And then we get to a period where we just see her sad and somber and like, kind of like, you know, depression. Made peace with it.

Cristina: And then she's suicidal, though.

Jack: She seems like, yeah, maybe I'll kill myself. Maybe I'll figure out a way to die or something. But then that also fades away. And eventually we get this person that seems very purposed. They're over here doing this, they're interacting. They're doing that. They're doing. Their sadness is gone now. It's just like a serious individual kind of actively doing things, almost ignoring people who notice them. Like, whatever. Yeah, people on the other side, huh? Sure, whatever.

Cristina: Doing what, though?

Jack: That's the weirdest part. And what makes me most confused is collecting water, doing something to the water. What a weird series of descriptions that was. And wandering around the lake. So some experiments were definitely being run at the lake.

Cristina: Yes, but what.

Jack: And then she was wandering around the castle. She's Been seen wandering roadside. She's been seen throwing something near the bridge and she's been seen picking something up from under the bridge. Just science going and exploring and like checking things out.

Cristina: It's hard to tell these.

Jack: All of these are in lab coat or raincoat, which I am calling a lab coat for this theory.

Cristina: I don't know.

Jack: I don't know.

Cristina: It's just her outfit's so very. It's hard to say just to say that it's a lab coat.

Jack: I don't know if anybody in a panic fear mode can really identify clearly when they're also similar.

Cristina: Just.

Jack: I mean, I guess a gown and a robe are quite distinct.

Cristina: That's tough. Yeah, I don't know.

Jack: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Just theories, you know. I don't know. This is just weird patterns that formed looking at this.

Cristina: Is she just a scientist or some type of experiments?

Jack: Yeah, maybe. There's a bunch of these girls, they're actually just stuck out there. I don't know. I don't know. Something about the space time anomaly is affecting them.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: If there's multiple girls and yes, they're stuck there because why would there be more than one? They're definitely just trapped there.

Cristina: What do the men in black have to do with anything?

Jack: What was that? About three years of them consistently coming in and out and suddenly narrative changes.

Cristina: I mean, yeah, I guess something changed.

Jack: Yeah. Yeah. Now it's kkk.

Cristina: That's weird because she didn't change.

Jack: When you look and you look for druids, when you look for images of druids, they're usually in white and they have a robe that has a hood. Not only that, if you look at the very robe that druids wore and you look at the same ones the necromancers were, they were identical. They're just often darker. For necromancers it's the same s*** almost down to the T. And you look at the ones that Zoroastrians wore and it was identical to the f****** one that the necromancer is just a whole mess.

Cristina: It's weird that she's never described wearing that type of robe though. All these outfits, but none of them are a rope. Like if it was a science coat, you might confuse that for. I don't know, I don't know. I don't think she's part of it.

Jack: We would have. We would have needed a science person to make one of these reports. Because the problem is this is by casual people, a lot of the Time. So we're like taking randos at their casual non well descriptive words and like their interpretation of whatever random series of situations they saw in plain darkness on a road that literally has nobody living there and no lights. So like, if any situation was ever vaguer, like, I don't know, all of this could be. A hundred percent of this could be unrelated. All of it. It could be unrelated. I don't know if it is because of. D***. The consistency is kind of hefty. Yeah, that's why I'm put it here. I put it like this again, it's just random information. But that's the problem. The problem that I began with. Problem one is that I don't know if all these women are in fact the same women. And if they are, then what the f*** happened? And if they're not, then what the f*** happened?

Cristina: Yeah, yeah.

Jack: You didn't get anywhere other than just come up with more questions and solve anything?

Cristina: No, I don't know either. I'm confused. I don't know. Because it could be either or it.

Jack: Could be many women in experiments. We know experiments were happening and we know somebody's shutting the people who would report on about.

Cristina: Yeah, and we know so many people disappear in that area. Like how many of these women are just one of those disappeared?

Jack: Yes. How is anybody gonna prove it? They disappear if you get close enough.

Cristina: Yeah, tough, tough. Okay.

Jack: I don't know, man. I don't know what to tell you. That's just what I got. Well, the other problem that we definitely can't fit here, but we have to unpack at some point. This problem number two, the fact that there's a little boy and there's so many variations of this little boy in so many places. Little boy?

Cristina: Really? I thought it was just the bridge and the coins.

Jack: No, there's a lot going on and she interacted with them. Anyways.

Cristina: No.

Jack: Anyways, that's for next time.

Cristina: No.

Jack: Okay, so look, if you guys got any input on any of this information. Hey, look, it could be coincidence. I'm just looking at things. I'm comparing and contrasting. None of this matters. It's not important. It could mean nothing. I'm just a crazy person who reports on random things I find. And that's what's happening here and say any of this means anything, I got theories. I could be wrong, probably am wrong. Who knows? It's just more questions. Is it one, is it multiple? And then all the possibilities for either option. So look, if you got theories, hit me up. Hit us up. Let us know usconvopod on Twitter, Instagram on TikTok on Facebook x x remember.

Cristina: To subscribe, rate and review the show.

Jack: And word of the mouth is the most overpowered thing on earth. Tell people that we're figuring out these deep diving problems, solving the world's neediness.

Cristina: This has been the Rambling podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Bye. Good morning. Good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by Great Thoughts.info art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McCallister with social media managed by Amber Black.

Rambling 280: Clinton Road: Part 1: Echoes

Is Clinton Road actually Haunted? If not, what could explain the odd occurrences? Is there anything we can learn from them? The duo revisits the case of Clinton Road, a place often considered the most haunted region on Earth. Jack’s first hand experiences and the amount of reported cases work together to provide a new perspective on what is truly taking place at this paranormal hot spot. 

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed:

  • Thin Places
  • Spacetime Distortions
  • Ghosts vs Phantoms
  • Wormholes
  • Echoes
  • Slipping Through Time
  • The Bird Theory

Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast

Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod

Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod

Instagram - https://instagram.com/justconvopod


+Transcript

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I'm your host, Jack.

Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And this is the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas. And we have quite the baffling at the moment. So let's do a little house cleaning. Right. Hella years ago, we did a Halloween episode where I was talking about my experiences at Clinton Road. Yeah, the first time we did this, it took three episodes to really break apart everything that I personally experienced there. And it was just for the sake of Halloween. But then the episode stretched out and it was like a three part thing. And on the last of the three episodes, we called up Reaper and Nune and we had conversations with them relative to the thing so that they can tell us their angles on it. And everybody had a different story.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And everybody talked about different timings and everybody talked about a lot of different things. Now we know the stories say that Clinton Road is an exceptionally haunted place. We've about two years after that point, took another deep dive into Clinton Road. And then we found about thin places. And this kind of lined up pretty heftily that there was just, you know, space time anomalies and distortions taking place and that a lot of what was taking place could have just been echoes that existed in that region.

Cristina: Yeah, yeah.

Jack: Except we've now gotten even more insight and information. We found out how space time distortions in the form of thin places get formed. So in a weird full circle scenario, something that was totally unrelated has suddenly become pressing because it has space time distortions, which could only have been caused by highly advanced electrical magnetic technology, which could only have been done by the ancient civilizations that were extremely advanced, particularly the only ones that had that level of energy, which were either Djinn or f****** Elysians somehow. Full little circle.

Cristina: But why were they there?

Jack: But why were they there?

Cristina: Huh? Interesting.

Jack: Yes. So in figuring this out, it makes sense to once again visit this place. But now with new eyes and the ability to look granularly at all the things that could possibly be happening there. And so I've done that. I've gone and I've looked for a lot. Now here's what I'm gonna preface this with. There's a lot. So this episode is gonna be very surface level. The reason I began this was by talking about how we approached this in Halloween is because I kind of want to keep driving this topic that's probably gonna take us beyond Halloween because of how many things there are here. And we have to unpack some of them. None of which we're going to do here, but we're gonna. We're gonna discuss a couple of these.

Cristina: Points while we refreshing our memories or something.

Jack: We're gonna. We're gonna go through the things that are here and we're gonna talk. It's not anything about me. We're not refreshing memories on anything.

Cristina: No. We're learning the past episodes. No, we're going.

Jack: No, no. We're just. This has nothing to do with us.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: We're just gonna go through Clinton Road with nothing about us involved. No. No past research. No. Nothing. We at what exists. And then with the new eyes, we have kind of talk about the things that are obviously gonna stick out.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: We didn't know these things before, although we brushed by them. Now we're gonna look at these things that we've seen before, but now we have fresh eyes and it's suddenly gonna be like, Okay, I've divided this into three different sides that matter at different grades. The first of these sides is called echoes.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: This part comes first because we're going to easily dismiss it unless something in particular sticks out that we might need to correct for. But otherwise, these are things I believe are echoes.

Cristina: Okay, cool. There's a lot of them.

Jack: There's a lot. The one we'd be going to after that is going to get a little more pressing. These are phantoms. These are. These. Have a little bit of thought to them.

Cristina: Okay. Yeah.

Jack: And we're going to end at a third area that is just labeled under the things that are definitely, without a question, significant.

Cristina: That's what they're just significant.

Jack: Just significant.

Cristina: Well, what a difference.

Jack: Okay, so let us go back and visit this part one of a Clinton Road. Revisit this part one. I am calling the menu. This whole episode is called the menu. This is the menu we're gonna be unpacking. Okay, so let us begin first with a quick description of what we mean by echoes. When people say ghost, they are talking too blanketly. And ghosts have been obscured. So now ghost is a blanket term. It will remain a blanket term, but it highlights several things. It highlights dead humans who are spirits. It highlights creatures from other realms which are phantoms, and it highlights space time distortions and reflections which are echoes, all of which we refer to as ghost. Unanimously, yes. But these three things are now going to be unpacked. So specifically, echoes are the ones we're looking For. Because we can write those off. Those are only being caused by the space time anomaly. We don't know what caused the space time anomaly, but we know that things do cause the spacetime anomaly. We already have that fact in place. So now let's just discard the ones that don't matter. First, the boy at the bridge. There's a child, a ghostly boy. An apparition that shows up. And the boys reported he's reportedly always under a bridge picking up coins that people take.

Cristina: That's what I remember. I don't remember the whole story. I remember there's a boy with a coin.

Jack: And so he goes and gets the coins from underneath the bridge and he puts them back on top of the bridge. People see him consistently doing this one motion. He goes to the bottom of the bridge, grabs coins, bring those to the top of the bridge, goes back to the bottom, gets coins. And so the repetition of this, the fact that nobody sees anything different of this boy tells us that boy is not there. That's either in the past, most likely.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Or in the future. But likely mostly in the past because he tends to look old timey. Tends to look like an 1800s child.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it fits the suit. He must have actually been there, maybe grabbing coins, collecting them himself to play or something. And we're seeing kind of the moment.

Cristina: Back of that moment.

Jack: Not a flash. Yeah, Sort of a flashback. The echo, the reflection of that instance in time. And this has been. This is upon one of the most mentioned things. But he's always described the same way.

Cristina: Okay. We're saying these are not ghosts. This isn't the ghost of the dead boy or anything. Like he is a person that existed and he's probably dead right now.

Jack: Yeah. But this is echo. This isn't him. This isn't like his spirit is cut in a time loop. No, this is. We're seeing through time back to when he was actually doing that. Yeah, that's literally him. But we're looking through a time window.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: The next one is just referred to as the girl. Now, this is a sort of ghostly girl in a white dress. Not to be confused with the lady in the white dress that is originally from Clinton Road too. Two different individuals. So this girl in the white dress is often wandering the road, believed to be searching for her parents. That's different than the hitchhiker lady in the white dress who usually gets a ride. And this is the typical story of you take her home. And then they're like, what the f***? My daughter's been Dead for years. Because she leaves like her hoodie in the back seat or something. And then the guy always comes back, oh, my God, I left the thing. And then, oh, no. So that's a different lady. This other girl is just always walking and she doesn't get in anybody's car. But I remember reading about this when we did this the first time. And it's always that she's looking for her parents and that she has like a really blank stare. Kind of like a nightgown. Not even a dress. It's sort of more like a nightgown. Like she just walked out of her house or something. And she's always walking on the side. She's got lost. Somebody asked, hey, are you okay? I'm just looking for my family.

Cristina: And that I able to take her home.

Jack: She does. She never gets in the car. They ask her to get in. She just walks away. Well, weird. Now, here's the thing about this. This is confusing. This one has a question mark next to it. Because the fact that they can interact with her is weird. But they ask her. But I think some of these echoes are also like, again, maybe somebody stopped by there around that time back then.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: That's why you hear her say the same thing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It's always. She's looking for her parents and she's always walking along the same area.

Cristina: She's saying it's probably something she did say.

Jack: Exactly something somebody did see her. And hey, you're right. And oh, no, I'm just looking for my family. And so we're seeing that moment.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And some enough people, it's, you know, it's a hot spot. It's a tourist attraction. Enough people go through there that occasionally they catch her at that very moment and then they happen to talk to her at that very moment and she happens to say what she would say.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And so it's like, oh, my God. She said, but you're not really talking to her. It's always the same loop. It never changes.

Cristina: Yeah. I think it's still an echo.

Jack: I think that is checks out as an echo. Right. It doesn't seem like this is fantastic.

Cristina: No.

Jack: The next one referred to as the hitchhiker. This one is a person looking for a ride.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: But there seems to be a cutoff point. So that by default means. Yeah. It's like they're asking for a ride and they just vanish in front of you.

Cristina: Yeah. But it still seems like an echo. Like that's true for sure. That's probably what they were doing once Upon a time. And they did get that ride.

Jack: Yeah. And a lot of people theorize that the hitchhiker got killed by somebody, but that's not how this would work.

Cristina: No, this has nothing to do with how they died.

Jack: No, this has nothing to do with.

Cristina: Everyone's gonna assume all these things are related to ghosts, and therefore they must have died in the area, which probably not. They probably just. They're really from that area. Yeah.

Jack: These are people who were definitely just people who lived around here. It seems to be the case, and it seems to be with echoes. It's always the way that that works. So I think the hitchhiker definitely appropriately put under an echo. The cutoff point makes it too obvious. I think anytime there's a cutoff point to, like, restart, you're objectively an echo.

Cristina: Yep. And it's not a ghost. It's important to know that, yes, they're dead, but they're not. It wasn't like someone murdered them.

Jack: No. Everything is a ghost that we're talking about. That's why we're referring to this as an echo.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: The different ghosts are the echoes and the phantoms. But this is a ghost. It's just not.

Cristina: It's not that they were hiking and then getting murdered and now.

Jack: Yeah, it's not a phantom that's over here.

Cristina: Thinking is unrelated to why they're there.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. This isn't like a lingering spirit. We have the bicyclist, a spectral bicyclist, sometimes seen riding along the road, believed to have died and in a hit and run accident. Always on the same part of the road, always for about the same distance, Always on the bike, always the same outfit. And he's never seen beyond that point or before that point.

Cristina: And they're always gonna assume they died.

Jack: He must have died there.

Cristina: Unless they look like. Like if he looked like he was hit by something and he's.

Jack: Then I would say, okay, okay, you saw the death.

Cristina: Yeah, but it was just a guy riding a bike.

Jack: Yeah, it's just a guy riding a bike and. Yeah, exactly. It's like such a waste of thought ultimately, to be like, oh, his death put him here. It's like, I mean, if you saw him die, maybe, but chances are. Nah, nah. It has nothing to do with it. And the place is distorted. Yeah, the place is distorted. Not the people. Next, the haunted lake. This one is. Weird one. This is the lake near Clinton Road, and it is said to have been haunted by spirits of those who drowned in it. It's off a sharp Right turn, there's like a hard right entering Clinton Road. I'm not sure from which side, the south or the north. But right off of one of those two entrances, there is a little dirt path that goes on, and then it leads to this lake. This lake has two important things that are very weird. One, there are consistently sightings of people fishing there and people, like, hanging out in the lake usually at nighttime. And they're there and like. Like walking around it. You kind of get glimpses of them and stuff, but they're not like, really there. What makes this really weird is there's a high point vantage. This vantage point. We can see the lake. And from that point, people have always said the lake looks populated and full. I think there is an angular distortion that allows a continuous view of a past point. From that vantage point they're looking at.

Cristina: That's cool. And then, like, there's many figures, but they might not even be there at the same time.

Jack: That. Exactly. This could be a. The tall grass scenario where all the different timelines are kind of converging at that one spot. And through this sort of window, you see it all in one spot.

Cristina: The lake is a hot spot. That's where people want to hang out.

Jack: Yes, exactly. You people would normally be there in groups.

Cristina: Yeah. So it would be many groups. But those many groups are not there together.

Jack: They would be there for hours sometimes. So if there's just time slips that last a second, they would have been there to be caught by the time slips so that we can see them.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it would look populated. And I do believe up there in that vantage point there is that. That is in fact maybe a sustained sort of thin place entrance that you can look through. Maybe you'd have to jump and clear a distance to get through it, but it seems to be sustained because it's always the same spot that people go to to see the lake filled with people.

Cristina: Yeah, that's pretty cool.

Jack: So that's a good. A great example of it being just an echo, but, like, you could probably jump through if we could see the gap. The problem is we can't see the entrance or exit to thin places. We can only see what's on the other side. But if we could somehow make a technology that allows us to detect them, I wonder how many we would see if turned it on. Like, you know, I put thin place detecting glasses. Would it look like bubble gates? Would it just be like a tear in space? I think it would look like a perfect sphere.

Cristina: I have no idea.

Jack: Everything in nature Kind of.

Jack: I think it looks like a perfect sphere.

Cristina: Cool.

Jack: A wormhole.

Cristina: Wormhole looking thing.

Jack: Yeah. We can't see it. And again, it's always positions properly with what you're looking at. So yes, in the past that lake was still there. So it's not like you looking through it. Oh, there's something else there. Yeah, you see a different time of it. But you know, geographically it's the same.

Cristina: It still looks. Yeah, it looks the same.

Jack: So you wouldn't see the entrance. Now if the place changed drastically and there was a place like this. Here would be my next sentence. I think because there is a sustained doorway that allows us to see to the past. Maybe there's a location that we altered somewhere on earth that has the same effect. And when you stand through it, we can see the entrance not because we're seeing the wormhole, but because the other side looks so different that it looks like two images overlapping. And one is a circular sphere of a different place that should exist somewhere. But it should exist as such a weird kind of.

Cristina: It's not like that farm place where we sometimes see the hole sometimes.

Jack: That could totally be the case. Is that a wormhole to a different time? It is a space time distortion. And we know thin places cause this. And those holes are migrating consistently. They're never in the same place.

Cristina: And are those even there now? Like I don't think.

Jack: Yeah, they show up and disappear all the time to this day.

Cristina: Wow. But like I don't know because you're looking at it, but I don't know.

Jack: To this day they move around. Yeah, it's f****** weird. But I think this, the haunted lake gives us a lot of information because the haunted lake tells us that they are thin place sustained entrances that don't move. And that seems to be one presumably one that if we could see and maybe keep open by will we can traverse to whatever alternate time that is. Potential time travel just exists. Yeah, but they would be tiny little gateways that we can't see. And we'd have to accent this also.

Cristina: Would expect multiple times are overlapping in that you're seeing groups of people.

Jack: That depends. It depends. That's a theory where. It depends if that's the actual case that's happening. Because it could have been a day that they were all at the lake, sunny day, you happen to be in the summer and all those people are one moment. And if that's the case and that's one place. And that would create an interesting situation. Right. We're talking about people flying and their planes completely disappearing. And you're going through where? Oh, you're crossing over to Bermuda Triangle. And what the. Do those people have excessively overpowered technology. You'd be making thin places like a m***********.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And then somebody flies over your thing and your plane totally disappears. We never see a crash. We never see anything.

Cristina: No.

Jack: No remnants. When we go and check, you're just gone. Or maybe there are enough sustained thin places that somebody went in. Poof. Popped out in the future. Popped out in the past. And they have no idea what. They can't see it to go right back in. They're just somewhere else.

Cristina: Some other time.

Jack: Some other time. And there's no way back. We've seen glimpses. Maybe there is. Let's say where I'm sitting, there's a thin place, and you are a plane flying parallel. You're not flying towards me, you're flying parallel. Me standing down here, you on the other side of the thin place in whatever time you're in. I'm technically looking through the thin place when you fly in front of it. And I see you from your time. From my angle. In my time, we've seen many things like this. Pictures of planes and hieroglyphs and stuff. That's easily somebody flying right by a bubble. And I see it.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And you didn't notice it was here. I didn't notice it was there, except I saw something weird. That's it.

Cristina: You saw something weird, but I didn't see anything.

Jack: You see anything. And so it looks like you blinked in, blinked out, but you never entered my thing. But now let's say that same thin place was in front of you instead. Then you enter it. But then I didn't just see you show up and disappear in my end. You just entered my end. And you'll never get back to yours. Okay, that explains many of the planes that have just disappeared. Boats have just disappeared, all of which happen to be around the premier triangle, which we know has the largest energy displacement on the planet.

Cristina: Yeah, they're just traveling somewhere else.

Jack: A lot of these dots are trying to f****** make sense. Some other time, different time through these sort of portals. And that's all thanks to this lake that gives us a good frame of reference. Now we get to the lady in white, which is a completely different apparition from the girl. This is again the one that always gets in the car and the one that has been dead. But this is a weird one. This has a little star next to it because the. You can interact with Her. But this seems less like. And she gets in your f****** car.

Cristina: But again, the hiker, though, gets in your car.

Jack: No, the hiker asks for a ride. And just. But this lady gets in the car, and you take her where she's going, and then she goes inside. And then the people inside never saw the door open. They never saw anybody come in. You come back with a hoodie, you knock, and they're like, what the.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: My question is, how does this story repeat? And the family isn't like, oh, somebody else showed up with the hoodie. That's where I get f***** up.

Cristina: That's also an echo.

Jack: Then they're not there. The family is part of the echo.

Cristina: I would think so.

Jack: Except the girl gets in your car. How are you tactically positioned in the same exact way? How are you moving in such a way that's so identical to how she moved when she was in the previous car that you don't lose. Sink and drive left slightly, and she's just floating next to you. Why doesn't that happen? This is interacting with the person. This isn't an echo, then. But then everything else would suggest an echo. Yeah, except she interacted with the individual and she left the physical object in the car.

Cristina: So then everything plays out just like an echo. That's the weird thing.

Jack: That's a weird thing. This is why this is a unique situation, because all the characteristics of an echo, except it has this one facet of a phantom. It's interacting with you. And the family at the door is too. When you get to the door, they get. They open it. When you get to the door, they're not just. You arrive and they're talking to nobody because you arrived five minutes too late. And they're just. Yeah, you see them talking to nobody. Or you get there too early and nobody answers for the longest. Until it's the time that it's supposed to be triggered. That they would open the door. No, no. It plays always the same. This is a weird one, because I would argue something different is happening. My argument is there's still an echo. I would argue this is. You never left Clinton Road. I would argue this is a person slipping into a thin place.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And now you're kind of trapped in a series of events.

Cristina: And once you're done with it, then you're out of it.

Jack: You exit on the other end. Yeah, I think we're seeing a different type of echo, one you're partaking in. You're not really interacting with it, but you've fallen into the Echo space.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And now you're part of the echo. Even if they're not there. And you technically are. You're kind of all here at the same time too.

Cristina: And you have to.

Jack: You have to complete the role.

Cristina: Complete the role. Yeah.

Jack: I would argue this is how Groundhog Day happens. In Groundhog Day, there's no way to really know how the role completes.

Cristina: You just have to.

Jack: You have to figure it out. That's the problem. He. He entered the thin place without being in a unique space where only one event is taking place. A thin place like this. You're in the middle of f****** nowhere. There's an obvious step to take. Oh, let me take the girl home. Oh, she forgot the thing. Oh, let me take it back home. Where she. There's obvious conclusions that could lead you to the exit.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Groundhog Day situation is you just fell in, and you don't know where you fell in, what caused it or anything. And there's also no guide on your way out. You don't know where the exit is.

Cristina: No. But you just. You stumble upon it. Like you stumbled upon the entrance.

Jack: Yes. So in this situation, the situation is guiding you towards the exit.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But it's because the echo ends at the other end. Not because the echo literally ends there, but because there happens to be a thin place that's the exit point. And they're sort of connected.

Cristina: Yeah. That's so weird.

Jack: I think this is people falling into him.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: As opposed to you seeing it, you're interacting with it, but it's sort of playing like an echo.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And again, you get to a house where somebody's interacting with you, but there can't be anybody there that doesn't check out, because they're not just like, oh, somebody else showed up with the same story.

Cristina: Yes. Like, how long could they live? And that's like.

Jack: So it's unique to them.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Now let's take an additional farther step. The proof that that is what's happening is that there are three moments here. There is you who exist in one instant, the family who exists in a second instant, and the girl who died before that family incident. That's why you can exit. Because the family's house is in a different thin place. That's a different echo that happened to happen however many years after the girl died.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So there just happens to be another bubble related. But they're not really. They're two different bubbles.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And you'll always fall into one. Interacting with the girl because she's where one is. And then the exit or not the exit, but just a different bubble that would just drop you back in your time. He's where the house is.

Cristina: Yeah. That is so strange. She takes you to the end of her bubble. Is beginning of another bubble. Pretty much.

Jack: Yeah. It's not even the beginning or end. Both of them are just entrances and exits. And you happen to. When you interact with her, the only way you can interact with her is by crossing in because you're not seeing her on one end. The story always happens that if you saw her, you ended up being the guy who delivered the thing. You've never not seen her outside that context. Nobody sees the lady in the white dress and not interact with her. People see the girl in the white dress in the white gown, and then they'll interact with her. But people don't see the lady in the white dress without ever interacting with her. It's almost like there's no option. There's nothing else around you at that moment, which checks out with you're somewhere else.

Cristina: Okay. I think unique.

Jack: That. Yes. That's very, very unique. I think that's definitely among them.

Cristina: So multiple echoes.

Jack: Multiple echoes playing together. That's two different bubbles. And you enter the echo space. Next one is the abandoned mental asylum, which is the typical, you know, oh, my God, something horrible happened there. But now we're in closer to home territory because maybe. Maybe something happened there. Because mental asylum, that's not about who died there. It's about what experiment was secretly being run there. We have a building, and it's haunted. And a haunted building, probably something went down. And the haunted buildings are always. What? They're always asylums where you can experiment on people. They're always prisons where you can experiment on people. It's usually where people aren't gonna miss the people.

Cristina: Those are still echoes.

Jack: Yes, but it is an echo of a place that might be one of the locations resulting in the thin places.

Cristina: Thin places.

Jack: The place matters more. That's why I didn't say the people.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: I said the place because the place here matters.

Cristina: It could also probably be a hotspot for Shadow Realm creatures.

Jack: Well, that would be a result of the place. Again, the distortion opens up all these things.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: That's why the place is what matters. Not the Shadow Realm people, not the humans that might have been tortured. There's the place. Yeah, because the place had whatever event took place that allowed for more thin places.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: And assuming this is one spot with a bunch of thin places. But there is, as we know, a castle that is Suspected to have sketchy s*** happen with a bunch of thin places. There's a town. They had a bunch of thin. So an area where there might have been a group of people who settled and had a bunch of different facilities doing a bunch of different s***. And this might be one of them. Particularly because out of all the structures there, this is the second most haunted place. It has the most thin places. It has had the most sightings. Even more than the castle. Although the castle is going to be our main attraction for different reasons. This has had hundreds of sightings within a day.

Cristina: Within a day.

Jack: Within a day. Groups of people going to explore, enter, see something. Almost every hallway. Try to get away, see things outside. Only when they get far enough does it start to decrease rapidly. Rapidly. Like the closer you get mad s***, the farther you get. Almost nothing.

Cristina: How big is it? Like, how many floors? Do you know how many rooms?

Jack: No. No details. Diving into nothing. We're eventually gonna unpack that and we'll find out all those details. None of this happens. Try to get deep into nothing because.

Cristina: Right.

Jack: We got too much. We haven't even made it to the next list. We're still on just echoes.

Cristina: Whoa. Okay.

Jack: Yeah, we know. We're not diving into. There's too much.

Cristina: Interesting. All right.

Jack: That everything in here we're going to dive into at some point.

Cristina: Good, good, good.

Jack: So I definitely think this is a very important one. Just like the. The haunted lake and just like are.

Cristina: Going to visit the haunted lake again.

Jack: We're going to visit the haunted lake again. We're going to visit the lady in white again. And we're definitely going to visit this place.

Cristina: Cool.

Jack: The next one is the ghost train.

Cristina: The ghost what?

Jack: The ghost train. This is a weird one because there was never in the past railroads here. Which tells us something really interesting. There's going to be railroads there. Now, that's interesting. Because of a look could be taken through that thin place at the right angle. We would be looking forward.

Cristina: That makes sense. Like you mentioned Egyptians seeing airplanes. Like it's possible.

Jack: No train tracks. But people see the train and they hear it coming from a while away. Like maybe if you're standing next to the thin place, you can hear the. Because you're hearing the sound come through it, and then you see it for a moment. If you happen to be looking in the same. Which checks out with the descriptions. Some people see it, some people hear it. Some people briefly see it after having heard it.

Cristina: Interesting. And if they're not going to have a train there, maybe these time Bubbles are a little more complicated than we think. Like maybe another hotspot in real life has a train. And they're. They're connected in a way.

Jack: Interesting. You think wormholes within. Like it's leading. The problem is. The problem is it doesn't look like that's how it works. What you would be arguing would be that there isn't a thin place, but rather a portal to a different part of our same space.

Cristina: But I don't think you travel. I think you're still seeing through time.

Jack: I think it's the same place we have. Would you be talking about is a portal and if there is, that would be walkable. Every portal we've seen is a traversable thing. So if that's the case, then that's visible. It would always be visible. And also we know portals don't function without structure.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it couldn't be. It couldn't be a portal. It has to be a thin place because it has to be a space time distortion. There's no such thing as far as we know, as a portal that isn't sustained by technology to the point that we've had several different people had to be taught by somebody how to build a portal.

Cristina: So how are they watching a train?

Jack: I just said it's probably a thin place looking forward forward.

Cristina: And you think in the future there's going to be a train.

Jack: Yeah. I mean, how is that any different than right now? Us seeing thin places looking through the past.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Why wouldn't that exist in the future in the same place? And we're seeing the other end of it.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Why would we be the most ahead no matter what? I think it's just as light. And it would have to be that we have just as many looking forward as we would have looking back. There's no logic as to. And if the thin places don't dissipate ever, then there's literally an infinite amount of them looking in every direction infinitely.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: You know, so it would have to be tied like that. My question to that would be, are there thin places that work in such a way where this one only looks back to that time and that one only looks back to this time? So only when I'm in that time will I see it. But then there are some that are always. So I'll explain the two differences.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: There's a bubble that where I'm standing right now in 10 minutes will become visible for 10 minutes and will disappear. And it'll only ever be visible for those 10 minutes in that moment. And so somebody on the other end will only see me ever in that moment through there. Because the bubble isn't gonna sustain. I'll never be able to see the bubble again. And only them on the other end for those 10 minutes could see it. And then it's gone. So it connects 1985 at 3 o' clock to 2024 at 7pm in this one place and only in that. So forever. He saw me and I saw him and that's it. And that bubble doesn't exist. But the next minute a different bubble somewhere else. And so a bunch of bubbles are always coming in and out because the whole place is distorted. That's one situation. Another one will be. Maybe there are fixed ones. This seems to be the case. There are fixed ones that you can always look into.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So that moment you can always see, but the bubble you're looking through in might dissipate and pop up. So I walk to this spot at the bridge and I see the kid. You go to this spot, but you didn't see the kid. But then another person comes by and they do see the kid.

Cristina: So that's what it seems like.

Jack: Yeah, sometimes and sometimes not. So the bubble on this end sometimes is here, but the end it's looking at is always there.

Cristina: I would think that's how it works. Because, like, I don't. I doubt everyone ever sees the kid.

Jack: Yeah, exactly.

Cristina: See the kid.

Jack: Because then it'd be weird. Anytime you walk by that spot, like literally, that means people could get out of their cars and start taking pictures of this pass point. Yeah, but because that doesn't happen, it suggests our end is not fixed. But that end is. But it seems to be in the same spot.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: That's why I don't think there's ever been. Oh, you're seeing something else. Where the train looks like it's cutting through the woods. It doesn't look like, oh, there's a town on the other side or something.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And again, there's no structure. How would you have a portal when literally the most complicated, most sophisticated minds we've ever known about. We're trying to design these things just to get it to work. More about looking forward. Abandoned cars are seen consistently. Many. Some people have sometimes looked and seen the entire street covered with abandoned cars. And then the next second notice, there's nothing there.

Cristina: That's kind of scary. Yes.

Jack: Not only that, it tells us something quite interesting. A train is going to be seen there in the future. Civilization is going to exist there. Follow me on this. What if nothing has happened there yet. And the distortion that's going to cause a space time problem happens in the future. And the wreckage, the train, which suggests civilization, the cars all abandoned on the road, which suggests civilization. That hasn't happened yet. Those people get sacrificed. That creates the space time distortion that we now see. And that's why no matter how far back we look, we never come across it. It's always just distorted. But where's the origin?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It's because it's not happened yet. But the distortion must exist because it's through time. So the distortion is present because it's going to happen.

Cristina: It's going to happen. I think so. That makes sense. It's going to happen.

Jack: The cars, the train.

Cristina: Could be that something in the future leads to whatever's happening right now.

Jack: Yep. That's a really weird one. Right?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: The possibility that the reason we can't pinpoint what these distortions origin is is because there is no origin yet.

Cristina: Awesome.

Jack: All right, next on the list is the Haunted playground.

Cristina: Oh my God.

Jack: Which is an old overgrown playground that is said to be haunted by kids, of course. And something crying. Either a woman or some kind of animal imitating humans. Which is way horrifying. The repetition of this very echo. Disembodied. It's always in the same region. Weirdly enough, the area this tends to begin and end at are a dirt road. And where the laughter ends seems to be at the beginning of Paradise Road. And the playground is in the woods off the dirt. Paradise Road is where I took. Where me and the guys ended up. Hearing the kids laughing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So we were exactly where we would hear kids laughing. I didn't know that was part of this.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Last time we didn't stumble upon that.

Cristina: So they're laughing by the park is.

Jack: What by a park? That's by the entrance of Paradise.

Cristina: And there's someone crying.

Jack: And there's somebody crying. The crying we did not hear. We heard the laughing children.

Cristina: Yeah. I don't know what's scarier. It's really hard. I think if you heard both, it might be less scary.

Jack: No, I think if you heard both, it's manic and more scary. Laughing and crying everywhere all at once.

Cristina: That's kind of. Yeah. But they're not sure what the crying sounds like.

Jack: Not in that area. It just sounds like something is crying. It sounds like. Kind of like a woman. But it's unclear. Which is the horrifying part about it. It's like man, it's almost like a woman. But the fact you got a question is what makes it uneasy?

Cristina: Yeah. That's way more scary than, like, children laughing.

Jack: But that ain't even the only thing crying. Because way away from there, towards the center of Clinton Road, about five miles in, there is consistently a baby heard crying in the woods.

Cristina: And they for sure know that's a baby.

Jack: That is for sure a baby screaming quite loud just in the woods. And many people have heard this one. This is among one of the most reported ones. And this is among one of the reasons people evacuate Clinton Road.

Cristina: That's so scary.

Jack: Yep. And screaming quite loud, like, come save me, like, almost is trying to get you to, oh, my God, there's a baby.

Cristina: I don't know. I would convince myself it's a crow pretending to be a baby.

Jack: The other one, people have posited that maybe there are animals pretending to cry because children might have fallen in the park or whatever.

Cristina: And they heard it because birds like to imitate sound. Yes, that's the sounds it's hearing constantly. I mean, like, what if an echo was of a baby crying or a lady laughing? Like, those are real.

Jack: And then the birds hear it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Yep. Because they would also be in proximity to the thin places. And birds fly. They could be floating in and out all the time, landing in different places they don't even know.

Cristina: And that's why you hear the thing crying. But you're not sure what that one is. But you know, there's a baby crying.

Jack: That actually makes a lot of sense. I think you just solved a lot of the noises. Because it again, birds imitate sounds. Birds fly. A place riddled with thin places. Birds flying, not seeing them, you just hear. Now you're over there now and you heard there was a park there. However long ago you heard it, you go, you're now in the past. You think you're in the same place. You're making the sounds. You heard. There's nothing there. But now kids. People hear kids laughing and baby's crying. And then you fly through the thing again. You're no longer there. Now you're in this time.

Cristina: That's so complicated.

Jack: And it's just birds, usually crows, which happen to be in woody, wooded areas and in farmland. And this is a very recluse removed kind of rural area riddled within places. A couple of flights. You're moving through time. It is easy to. I think that is a great solution for that problem. I think the sounds can't be relied on because it's probably birds imitating. And that would answer a lot. Unless There was a house somewhere near there in a different time. Which again that still holds a possibility. That in the future this place is a bunch of people with the intent to do something horrible eventually.

Cristina: Is there a kids park there currently?

Jack: Yes. Right next to Paradise Road.

Cristina: Okay. Yeah. Like it's.

Jack: The theory, seems to be my theory that Paradise Road is gonna grow and eat all of Clinton Road. Like the entirety is going to become one new town, new city type of thing.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And that's going to be sacrificed way in the future to make a different stone. And that's why it's so f****** riddled. We're talking about maybe the largest stone that exists is going to be there.

Cristina: That's crazy.

Jack: Which is why it's also the most haunted place on earth.

Cristina: Whoa.

Jack: I think the largest stone and the fact that people have seen entire wreckage as far as the eye can see.

Cristina: I would like to see that. That's so scary. But cool.

Jack: It's not right? Yeah, it is an absurd thing that could have happened. Next one is ghost carriages.

Cristina: So carriage is like the thing with the horse?

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Or that old timey.

Jack: Yes, yes, yes. Now again the fact that there doesn't seem to be something traceable far back enough. It just seems like people were using this road the same way all of time. And then sometime in the future there were people living here like a fuckton. But at the moment and looking backwards in time, it's just more empty and more empty and more empty. So something crazy couldn't have happened here with less and less and less and less and less people. But that suggests that the distortion is throughout time and that we do see into the past. Even if this did happen in the future because we do see weird s*** from the past. The kid looked old timey and the carriages are old timey. Yeah, it's just normal New Jersey being old New Jersey. But us seeing those moments because of thin places.

Cristina: But is the carriage like. Do they. They call it ghost carriage because it's like riding along by itself or something?

Jack: Yeah, it's riding on the. On Clinton Road. People when they get close enough it vanishes. And like people have gone through it scared they're gonna hit it and sometimes it's gonna crash into them and just disappears. And it's really probably just went through you and like ghosts the closer you get because they're kind of translucent. You can't really see them up close. You got to be at a distance where what with a plasma looks more concentrated. It's an echo. It seems to be that it's definite. Most definitely an echo.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And the last one is last for a reason in the echoes section and with a question mark, which is the Paradise Road cemetery. So Paradise Road Cemetery, like the playground is actually opposite sides of the playground on that same dirt road.

Cristina: Horrifying. Okay.

Jack: And the cemetery, you know, it's a cemetery, so haunted or whatever. The problem is the cemetery doesn't have a lot of people. It's a small cemetery, but the cemetery seems to have an absurd amount of activity. So it's just very, very, very active and happens to be at the same opposite side of the children. But there have been people seen there at all times, always active. Now, what we know about cemeteries is that cemeteries do. People are scared of them inherently. So this doesn't bounce off of a thin place. Because the problem here is that people do see a lot of repetition, but people do see ghosts staring right back at them. People do see ghosts trying to lure them in. Like, they look straight at them and tell them to come over here. But we've seen, when we were doing the Christmas episode, what graveyards really are. Because people are scared of them. Enough potential fear energy exists that creatures from the shadow realm do manifest there.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Okay, and so now we're getting to actual. Yes, there's ghosts there because the whole place is riddled with thin places.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: But this spot actually has phantoms. It has djinn and other s*** from.

Cristina: The shadow realm there just hanging out.

Jack: Because it's fear filled.

Cristina: It's. The whole place is fear filled.

Jack: That is my next sentence. Okay, now the graveyard, extra scary. So you go to Clinton Road, you're extra scared already, and then you see that s***. Extra scary.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Now we got to make a distinction because all of Clinton Road is scary to people. And we were just talking about the echoes that people see there. But that does not mean that there isn't a bunch of s*** responding to people and a bunch of s*** that isn't there due to the thin places, but they're due to the fear. Things you can interact with, of course, of which there are more than there are ghosts. People have stories of literally getting harmed. People have physical proof in photos of. I don't know where the f*** this came from. Weird scratches that seem unnatural, Marks on their bodies, things saying their name, things talking.

Cristina: How do they know? Like, do they. I know they're not like us, but, like, does that give them special abilities? I know, like strength and whatever, but, like psychic abilities. Why?

Jack: I don't think it would make them psychic.

Cristina: Like, how would they Say your name.

Jack: I think you're with people who would say your name and they hear your name being said and they're assuring you, yeah, I'm here, too.

Cristina: Okay. Yeah.

Jack: You know who goes to Clinton Road by themselves? You're hanging.

Cristina: That's true.

Jack: Oh, I'm scared, Steve.

Cristina: We're gonna give their nicknames if we ever decide to go. Okay. We're not using our names. Do not call me by my name.

Jack: Fair.

Cristina: Because, like, I do not want to hear something say yes. Oh, my gosh.

Jack: No. It's nuts. And that is. Yeah, it's a really, really meant, often mentioned people with scratch marks. There are people who hear voices talking directly to them, saying their names. There are people who hear conversations that then stop when they're in the area and start referencing things that they're doing. It's just the weirdest f****** thing.

Cristina: That is scary.

Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: Now, the problem we're facing is that we are 45 minutes into this episode, and I think the next section is gonna take about as long. So I think I'm not gonna do the Phantoms part. And this first part is entirely the echoes. This is kind of what I meant.

Cristina: By we're gonna be doing this for a while.

Jack: We're gonna be doing this for a while.

Cristina: And even you think past Halloween.

Jack: I think past Halloween. We have to unpack some of these things that I think are going to be full episodes of their own. Just to kind of. This is all just trying to understand the most active spot.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Why beat around looking at other places if we can understand the most active spot? The knowledge we'll get from here will trivialize everything else. It'll be too easy to understand. And I think that's going to be a healthy approach. So instead of going into these next two sections that are just already set up episodes, I think we can, now that we've gone through the whole thing, have a short discussion before we close it off about what this informs us on. So I think the things that definitely don't matter here, because everything we've mentioned here is definitely an echo.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Nothing checks out is not an echo. But the information we acquire by looking at these echoes is quite interesting. I think the boy and the bridge doesn't matter. That's literally an echo. The girl in the gown, literally an echo. There's no interaction. The hitchhiker, literally no interaction. The bicyclist, no interaction. It's when we get to the lake that we have interesting situations happening. A sustained, thin place that seems to always look at the same time or at multiple times, but is always present and you could actively choose to look through it. Interesting.

Cristina: That is interesting. And the girl with the white.

Jack: The woman, the lady in the white dress.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Hers is a different situation because it seems that way. The only place you can or the only time you see her is by.

Cristina: Slipping into the echo itself.

Jack: The echo itself.

Cristina: You have to complete whatever cycle you.

Jack: Have to do the Groundhog Day until you exit on the other end. So that's definitely something exceptionally interesting. And it would suggest that there is the possibility that there are thin places like this elsewhere that two events might be tied together.

Cristina: That's so interesting. I do think that's. That has to be another. I feel like that story has been around in other locations. Like I don't think I've heard. Like I've heard that. But not in Clinton Road.

Jack: It's funny because the original story came from Clinton Road. It was about the 1770s with people showing up. And this story took place with carriages to begin with.

Cristina: Okay. Because I'm pretty sure I've heard one that's like somewhere in the south though.

Jack: Yeah. So this place, this story originated with carriages. It's never an actual car that the original story was with. And this is also why they assume her dress looks like. The dress looks old timey and s***. And that she's out there, just typical girl. And then when you go to the house, the house is kind of like farming looking and stuff. And it's like we're. We're not that far the out there. Why is this house here? Type of vibes. So there's a lot of vibes that suggest that this is really, really, really old echo. Which would explain more how they're connected. Right. Because you give enough time from one echo to the other, there's enough gap that maybe eventually the thing happened. But the problem is how the. Did the other event happen to coincide with a person knocking on the door? Man, that's f****** weird. Unless the family of the girl is somehow involved with the s*** that's causing these thin places. There must be something, because how are they so connected to both the girl and them simultaneously? I get that. That's what's happening.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Hers is the entrance, his is the exit. But how the f***. What are the odds that her way out there and they gotta drive four miles in the opposite direction and the exit just so happens to be there?

Cristina: I don't know if we find other stories like this that'd be interesting.

Jack: That'd be interesting.

Cristina: That's unrelated but like has its own one loop thing. Yeah.

Jack: That you gotta get through it in order to get out.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: That's worth evaluating. You see, that's my point. This is very interesting. We don't necessarily acquire too much information, as much as a lot of questions. Yes. But then that brings up another point and I guess it's worth mentioning this house leaves where you find the girl to her family. You know the. How her family's house is in the direction of the asylum. It's one of the closest structures to the asylum. That's a coincidence and a half.

Cristina: Yes. And that's why you think the family's involved somehow.

Jack: The family could have something to do with it. It's possible. The people in this area have always been involved. And the future is people who aren't from the area who gonna be invited for other reasons.

Cristina: Yeah. Okay. Interesting. There's something there. Maybe. I don't know.

Jack: Something there for sure. Same thing goes with the train. That's an interesting. The train in the car is really fascinating because the train in the car suggests the future civilization is going to establish here. Like a lot of people are going to move in here. But although the train tells us enough people are going to be here that we're going to add transportation, the cars tell us far enough from that point.

Cristina: Something that's gonna happen. Okay.

Jack: It's gonna get really hardcore. I think those are the things that definitely matter. I think your description of birds is genius because that does in fact solve a lot. It is. Birds do imitate sounds and this answers a lot when it comes to weird sounds in the woods. And like, this is impossible. And how. And it's like, well, birds imitate babies all the time.

Cristina: Mm. Birds are weird creatures and themselves especially.

Jack: Crows which are drowning in that area.

Cristina: So it makes.

Jack: It checks out. And they're slipping in and out of different thin places, landing in different. That all checks out. So I think out of this episode we definitely already have some topics we're gonna be looking at again, which are the haunted lake, the lady in white, the abandoned asylum, the ghost train and the abandoned cars. All of those things have to be checked out.

Cristina: What about the cemetery?

Jack: The cemetery. I don't think it necessarily has to be checked out as much as it is an interesting sp because it's both phantoms and ghosts. It's clearly things that are present and clearly things that are not. Which checks out with the Christmas episode, which people go to see their dead passed away relatives just present. And then some people are like, no, but Those things are trying to get you. And it's like, okay, both those narratives kind of fit together.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Things from the other side and things from this side at a different time. I think that is the reality of what we're looking at here. I think that's right.

Cristina: You've got a lot just from that.

Jack: Just from echoes. Echoes that are actually going to inform us on the bigger picture, because these are how these technologies have affected space, time and how they work. And understanding them might tell us a lot of ways that we can approach visualizing data from the past that we still haven't understood. Data from the present that might be too ambiguous. Information and. And perspective all working out. Yeah, I think that's pretty much it. I think that's what we're getting from this episode. So instead of. So this is part one, the menu echoes.

Cristina: Whoa.

Jack: Longest thing, I guess. Next one is part two, the menu phantoms.

Cristina: Okay. And what was part three again?

Jack: I forgot that one is just the most important stuff, the significant things.

Cristina: Oh, yeah. Dude, that's so ridiculous.

Jack: Yeah. Because what I just mentioned are things that, again, like I said, it didn't seem important at first, but maybe we'd find some gems, which we did.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: The things I know we're gonna look into are in that last section, and that's like 25 different points that are all relevant.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: So, okay, these are the echoes. You guys heard that if there's anything of these that you guys think are more important or maybe you think I.

Cristina: Can see the connection that we can't. Like the echo that's leading into another echo. Like, if you can help us out with that.

Jack: Yeah, if you can think about that in any kind of manner, shape, or form, or you see patterns that we're missing, or you think we're overvaluing something and you got a way to credit it and make us remove it so we got less to look into. Yeah, all of the above. Reach out to us on our socials. You could find us at just Convopod, on Tick Tock, on Twitter, AKA X, on Facebook, on Instagram. You can't find us on YouTube or on Reddit because we've been banned from both.

Cristina: Remember to subscribe. Right. And review the show.

Jack: Yes. And word of mouth. Tell everyone about this. Any thinker you have who's into the weirdest, fringiest things. Science fiction, science, reality and fantasy, all of this. Tell them it might all actually be real, connected. Yes. Show them this so they know this.

Cristina: Has been the Rambling Podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Bye. S.A. good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Colazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by Great Thoughts info, art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McAllister with social media managed by Amber Black.

Rambling 90: Haunted Roads P3

Haunted Roads, The Just Conversation Podcast, Forest, Haunted, Woods, Creepy, PAranormal, Ghosts, Scary, Fear, Horror, Phantom

Are Clinton Road hauntings a paranormal problem or a physics problem? Resolving Jack’s Clinton Road haunting experience from ten years back by comparing it to similar cases reported by others.

Still taking shelter on Zombie island hidden in a Toilet Paper Castle, the duo decide to dive deeper into Jack’s experiences ten years ago, finally arriving at several different conclusions that might prove to be the answer to the conundrum of Clinton Road and it’s extremely high degree of paranormal activity.

+ Episode Details

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Topics Discussed

  • Anticipating Fear
  • Time Slips
  • Nonexistent Locations
  • Vanishing Cave
  • In The Tall Grass
  • Haunted Woods
  • Time Bubbles
  • Overlapping Timelines
  • The Matrix Glitch

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