Rambling 198: Dangerous Imaginary Friend
/Why did Jackie imagine Hank? Who is Hank? Is this something Jackie and her family should be concerned about? The duo opens the case of Hank, the Imaginary Friend, and the investigations gets only stranger as the data I reviewed. With a theory that feels right!
- Episode Details
Topics Discussed:
- Jackie, the 9 Year Old
- Hank the British Imaginary Friend
- Is Hank Real?
- Hanks Increasingly Odd Behavior
- Making Threats
- Abandoned Car
- Missing Person’s Report
- Questionable Heart Attack
- Mental Asylum
- The Forest
- Speculations
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+Transcript
Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.
Jack: Going live in 5, 4.
Cristina: What does live mean?
Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I'm your host, Jack.
Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.
Jack: And this is the show where we ground humanity's most absurdity, baffling ideas.
Cristina: Wow.
Jack: Yeah, that pause was monumental. So let's recap. Halloween's coming up, so we've been doing some weird. We've been.
Cristina: Yeah, some weird stories.
Jack: We've been digging. We've been digging deep. Deep in the. In the. In the digs.
Cristina: In the digs.
Jack: We. We've been digging deep in the digs.
Cristina: What's that supposed to mean?
Jack: We've been digging.
Cristina: We've been digging.
Jack: We've been digging holes. Yes, like the movie holes.
Cristina: Like the movie holes, except this one has the demons in it.
Jack: It built a character.
Cristina: What, this hole that we found has demons in it?
Jack: Well, we did. Yeah, we did find the hole with demons, but. Okay, so, yeah, there is a hole in some country, Russia or some s***. Like the border of Russia. I don't remember the story of Russian. Something and evil is in the hole. Allegedly. We don't really know.
Cristina: It's the Pepsi Cola.
Jack: Yeah, the Pepsi Cola wormhole. Yes, the Pepsi Cola wormhole is a scary place, but so is the Bio Ventura.
Cristina: The real life resident Evil lab.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Yeah, the Umbrella Corp.
Cristina: Umbrella Corp.
Jack: So, yeah, we. Look, the first story was just looking for some weird thing that happened in real life. The second story that we found was trying to type in exactly the same circumstances that would, in theory, describe the first story. But we just found the flip of it. Right. Originally we were like, what's a real scare? Not scary, but like, what's a real.
Cristina: Weird event that scientists can't explain? Or I guess they might have explained, but we'll never know their explanation.
Jack: Exactly. There wasn't a way to really tell.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: But I'm like, okay, what's a real event that has some. Some spooky connotations to it? And then we found the. The. The lab thing, right. It's trying to replicate the whole thing. The whole thing was just. Hey, what's weird? What was it? It was. We. What's some. A scientific thing that has no explanation?
Cristina: Okay. Yes.
Jack: And I was like, okay, but that was by accident. I just. What's something scary we could look up and I found some science related. What was it? No, what's the scary science thing?
Cristina: Something scary that science can explain.
Jack: Yes. Well, I was just looking for something scary and I found Something sciency. I was just looking for something grounded, something that, you know, what's tangible. What do we have evidence for? And so we found the science experiment that was weird. And so then we looked into it or typed in the right. The same combination to try to find something else after we found that story. And instead, what we found was something unexplainable. They happened to be with scientists. Yes, but this one had, like, an alien or ghost vibe to it.
Cristina: Mm. And they weren't doing any research on the thing. I mean, their research was kind of like a normal human research of, like. What's that sound? Let me check it out.
Jack: Yeah, well, there wasn't research. It was more like investigating.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Now we do this, get conclusions, blah, blah, blah. So I'm like, all right, we got to do this again because, you know, now we're by accident, consistent. And it's October. Let's do it. So October. And I got one more. One more chance before Halloween to be spooky.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: And I started digging.
Cristina: Spooky.
Jack: Well, I start digging, and I can't find anything related. It's sort of the same situation again because I type, okay, like, this time, we have a bunch of police reports and stuff. And I'm like, oh, that's. You know, that's kind of cool. That's pretty dope, because they weren't police reports for the first thing. There was just a bunch of people abandon the s***. And then the second one actually had police reports. That's kind of cool.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: So I'm like, is there something else that, like, there's actual police reports for that's creepy and unexplainable? And I go digging and digging and digging, and I actually do find something quite interesting. The question is, is it spooky? So this is potentially hit and miss, but we're gonna find out.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Okay, so let's dive into the story of Jackie. Jackie is a little girl.
Cristina: How little? Or I guess how young?
Jack: Very.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: She's from Oklahoma. She's like eight or nine.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: She's from Oklahoma. And Jackie has an imaginary friend.
Cristina: That's, like, the first thing I was thinking.
Jack: I said little girl, and you just thought, imaginary friend.
Cristina: Yeah. Okay, continue.
Jack: It's just. Okay, based on me saying imaginary friend, what do you think is gonna happen?
Cristina: I don't know. Because, like, she talks to the friend, and the friend tells her to. I don't know. It's always like, some kind of, like, evil ghost thing. But we'll see.
Jack: We'll see. Okay, so Jackie's Grandmother Stephanie stated that she often spent time playing with her imaginary friend and her dolls.
Cristina: Okay. Okay.
Jack: Basic little girl s***.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: Imaginary friends, dolls checks out.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: So when asked to describe her imaginary friend, she claimed it was an older man named Hank.
Cristina: Always. Why is it always some creepy dude? What is with these creepy dudes hanging out with little kids? Imaginary creepy dudes. It's always a dude ghost. I never hear about a woman ghost hanging out with kids.
Jack: I don't know either. But also, pedos are, like, a thing and quite. This is what. This is the kind of s*** that makes you be like, well, it's probably real. Like, it checks out according to, like, the percentage of creeps that are out there. Yeah. So anyways, Jackie would tell her parents about, like, stories of the. The. Of Hank. Hank would tell Jackie stories, and Jackie would excitedly tell her parents stories. So she would tell. He would tell her about, like, how he used to work at a lighthouse.
Cristina: That's cool.
Jack: He used to work on a lighthouse off the coast of England. Jackie's from Oklahoma, so it's interesting that there's this random guy, and so she, you know, he tells her about his life and. Because his imaginary friend. Right. So he tells about his life, his hobbies, just things. Stuff.
Cristina: Nothing weird that he's telling her, or at least not yet.
Jack: No. Yeah, I suppose so. As a little girl playing with her dolls, I find it strange that it's not just weird that he's a grown man. That's weird. But it's weirder that he's a grown man playing with dolls that's already kind.
Cristina: Of like, okay, he's playing with her. Like, she. It's her playing with dolls with him. You're saying, like, they're playing together?
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: With the dolls?
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: Okay. Okay. I didn't know that. Okay.
Jack: That's weird. It's not that she's playing with him and playing with her dolls. She's playing with him and her dolls.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Simultaneously, he's a grown imaginary friend who likes to play with dolls, and he's a dude. An older dude.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Kind of weird. Checks out the whole, you know, I'm grooming your child to do things to it, kind of. But it's imaginary, so what the h*** can anybody do? There's not a problem there. Just a crazy little girl or a normal little girl with imaginary friends.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: So one day, Hank approaches Jackie screaming and crying and saying he'd seen something horrible happen. What? Imaginary stuff, you know?
Cristina: Yeah. Okay. Okay.
Jack: So he says he saw somebody fall and get hurt outside Simple.
Cristina: Well, she checks it out.
Jack: Well, she doesn't check it out. She tells her mother and her father and although they didn't believe her, so she, she, they, you know, in order to humor her, they check it out. They go check it out and what they find is an actual kid had broken his leg outside somewhere. Yeah, it was like a block away.
Cristina: Oh, okay.
Jack: She probably heard it or something. You know, typical. She was probably because she was playing outside moments before. She wasn't down the block, but maybe she saw something.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And she tells her parents or whatever. M and I think actually she was in her backyard and this happened a block away, but she probably heard it happen. And you know, as an intelligent child, quick fact. Children with high IQs tend to be the ones who have imaginary friends.
Cristina: Really.
Jack: It is their mind processing information highly, like very fast and it has to compose and composite things. And a lot of the time it superimposes imagery that allows them to process. And if the child is thinking at an extremely adult level, they might manifest an adult that can think for them in that instant psychology fact. Anyways, this child must have heard the kid fall and start crying.
Cristina: Okay, so nothing weird yet.
Jack: Nothing weird to come in from the backyard and tell her parents. And then her parents then went to investigate and found the kid. They're aware that her child is highly intelligent. They've been told things to expect of her child and also to not worry about the imaginary friend because of this very circumstance. Highly normal. It is an extremely intelligent child. Okay, so this is kind of expected. And a child with high intellect is also a child with high intuition. You can have very small pieces of information and piece together quite vivid images that are accurate.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Her predictability. Not her predictability, but her ability to predict. Astounding. Because of high intellect, imaginary friend because of high intellect and intuition. Because of high intellect, the kid is essentially psychic. Because of high intellect, she could hear something and piece it together, basically what happened here. So obviously her parents thought nothing of it.
Cristina: Okay. Yeah, I guess there's nothing suspicious there.
Jack: No, nothing at all. Why do you keep saying yet this what you keep saying yet?
Cristina: Cuz something's gonna happen.
Jack: Do you believe something's gonna happen?
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Okay. Anyways, so. So the child's parents were contacted, the situation was dealt with, blah, blah, blah. And again her parents just brushed it off as something expected something normal. And sometime later, Hank began acting strange again, but in a weirder way. You know, he started think of like nurses from Silent Hill. How they kind of like twitchy and, like, real uncomfortable looking.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: So, yeah, doing that and like, screeching and like, at random, he would do this. Almost like he was glitching. But this. This is her describing this to her parents. She wouldn't use the word glitching, but, you know, she would try to explain the motions and how he would just start screaming crap. And then he'd just go back to normal.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: And like, it never happened.
Cristina: Like, she tried to get an answer from him and he couldn't explain it.
Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, he would. Like it never happened to him. Like. Oh, I don't. I don't know what you're talking about.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Yeah. Again, imaginary friend. So whatever weird things are gonna happen. But as a result of this, she began to have a lot of night terrors, consistently night after night after night after night after telling her parents about this. So it became really consistent that she would have these. And she had to go into a child therapist. She started seeing a child therapist consistently because of this. It was becoming intrusive. She would not sleep any night. All the nights were interrupted. All the nights, all the nights. All the nights, all the time.
Cristina: Because she was dreaming about or having nightmares about Frank.
Jack: Yeah, just these weird motions. Screaming. Some of the dreams that she described just kind of looked like a horror scene is basically all black and just him there, nothing else. And him, like, twitching in that manner and screaming in that manner with nothing else but him being the focal point.
Cristina: Oh, my gosh. Okay.
Jack: Yeah. It's kind of horrible because it's unclear whether she. She placed herself in the world of the dreams that she was having. Like, she was physically there or she was just watching nothing but him. Like, is she seeing herself third person, or is she seeing first person so all she sees is him? That was unclear, but it was described as essentially a dark void with nothing but his presence. How she saw him. That made her scared.
Cristina: Yeah. Were they trying to now, like, get her to stop having an imaginary friend? Is that even possible?
Jack: Yes. They tried medication in small doses because she was a child and that wasn't really working. But they immediately stopped that because of. It was kind of numbing her out, but she would still have all the problems. So you'd like drugging your child and not even solving the problem, which is a huge issue I have with giving children medication. Anyways. Your kid has adhd. Maybe that's just your child has a lot of energy and maybe. Don't drug your child.
Cristina: Don't punish your child for energy.
Jack: Don't punish your child for Being a child.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Oh, my child can't focus. Well, they're f****** kid, you know. But yeah. So consistently her parents would chalk it off to emotional stress. The therapist explained that this stuff is expected. You know, her mind has to process even the darker things of life, and as she gets older, she's going to understand those things more. But maybe not consciously, maybe this is all happening subconsciously and manifesting as these twisted images that she's getting from Hank.
Cristina: Okay, so everything's normal so far.
Jack: It's normal. It's very on brand for a intelligent child. Minus the now. This is. According to the doctors, it's totally fine. But what's weird for Jackie particularly is that she's consistently trying to explain. He's always more aggressive than he was before. So the twitching is more vicious, the screaming is more vicious, and he's more confrontational. Consistent. Like he's more aggressive in his words, have a stronger tone and he sounds like he's talking down to her more frequently. That kind of stuff.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: But. But again, totally normal, according to the doctors, really.
Cristina: What.
Jack: What would be abnormal about an imaginary friend being weird? Unless you're thinking something horrible, which you are.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: It wouldn't be strange.
Cristina: It's gotta still be weird for the parents. Even if they're being told it's normal, it's still weird.
Jack: Why would it be weird? As opposed to, oh, our kid.
Cristina: But their kids having nightmares and it's. She's telling you her imaginary friends going wild again.
Jack: Just because you're expecting something odd to happen is that you're in the state of mind. Think about how often a little kid leaves his bed and goes and jumps in bed with their parents. And you're like, oh, how cute. But that kid had a nightmare. Some kids do that every night. That's not weird. You're just expecting something weird to happen. So you see it weird. But it's extremely. It's the most common thing.
Cristina: Nightmares, though, if she's saying that she's.
Jack: Experiencing this, well, it's an imaginary friend, which is also incredibly common. It's like a kid saying there's a monster under the bed every night. Again, you're expecting something weird, so you're seeing it as something weird. But what part of this have you never heard before? All of it is extremely common. Kids see crazy s***, though. There's monster, daddy, there's a monster under my bed. And that. That every night has to come and be like, there's not a monster under the bed. No, I saw it. Okay, I'll look under. Or it's in the closet. I'll in the closet. This is normal. This is all normal. You're expecting spooky, so you're thinking about it as weird. Why? Well, it's so weird that she. It's totally normal. There's actually nothing strange about this, about imaginary friends.
Cristina: That glitch out. That's totally normal.
Jack: You gotta understand that none of what's being described is weird in the context that a child's mind is making it up. So I'm using the word glitching out.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: I could say spasming. Regardless of which word I use, the descriptions of the child are childlike and what. The events that are happening are extremely normal, as explained by therapists who experience it all the time.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Professionals who experience this all the time are saying, this is normal. This is absolutely normal.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Which means it's so common.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: That they're not like, your child's f***** up.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Do you see?
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: You're expecting something weird, so you're seeing it weird because you're looking for it. But the people who are trained to spot how normal it is are like, well, this on paper is some s*** I've seen a thousand times.
Cristina: Okay. I have not seen this a thousand times, but okay.
Jack: Yeah. But you're expecting to see something weird, so you're already looking for it. You're like, which part of this is the one that I'm supposed to pay attention to? Don't worry about it.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: The doctor said it's fine. You just follow the expert.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: Not the little girl. You focus in too hard on little girl's opinions. Little girl. Why are you putting trust in her? Even her parents are like, f*** this child. She's just a f****** kid.
Cristina: That's awful. I don't know.
Jack: But, like, in most cases, what you gonna do? Humor your child's crazy s***? And then they turn out to be a real nutcase because you made them think this is absolute. Absolutely. Okay. Instead of going out of it. That is where you see you'd messed up your child in this instant. Because you're like, well, this is so weird. My child. Oh, my God. But no, it's not. It's totally normal. It's absolutely normal. It's absolutely normal. Until 8-16-20. I mean, 2001.
Cristina: Okay?
Jack: In August 16, 2001, it stopped being normal.
Cristina: How so?
Jack: Well, Jackie calls Stephanie, which is her grandma, claiming Hank said he would hurt her parents.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: Now it stopped being normal. Now, if she were to tell the doctor that the doctor would Be like, now we've got a problem. Up until that point, it was totally normal. You were looking for it. Now you got some s*** that is like, is this kid gonna f****** hurt her parents?
Cristina: Is she?
Jack: Well, I don't know. What do you think? So, okay, Stephanie asked to speak to Jackie's parents, and they were fine, obviously, because this f****** kid's crazy, okay? And also, it's a f****** nine year old. Like, what the h*** are you gonna do to hurt your parents if they're paying attention, you gotta catch them while they're sleeping or something if you're crazy like that.
Cristina: Is that what she does? No. Continue the story. Yes. Okay. Okay. So they talked. She talks to the parents. Parents are fine.
Jack: Yes, they're. The parents are perfectly fine. And, you know, nothing. Nothing out of the ordinary. It's just like your kids spazzing out of the nightmares of guy weariness or whatever. She just needs to escape the situation. So Stephanie has to have Jackie for the night, you know, to ease the parents worry. To ease Jackie's worries. And interestingly enough, Jackie said that anytime she was with her grandma, Hank wasn't there. Hank tends to be at home. At her. At Jackie's home, not at her grandma's house.
Cristina: Okay. Because if this was a ghost story, he's just haunting the house she's living in.
Jack: Yeah, yeah. If this is a ghost story, it's haunting the house is living in. And so Jackie goes and stays with her granny at her granny's house, you know?
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: So the next morning, it gets weirder.
Cristina: I don't know what happens.
Jack: The next morning, the police knock on Stephanie's door.
Cristina: Okay, about the parents.
Jack: Right, about the parents. So, okay, this is what happens. The parents car is found parked on the highway, but the parents aren't there. And they did a search to find who the car belongs to, but the parents were also not home. But the car was there. Didn't look like anything weird happened. It kind of looked like they pulled.
Cristina: Up, they just abandoned their car, parked.
Jack: And just abandoned the car. Now the car's abandoned, but they find out that, you know, it belongs to the parents or whatever.
Cristina: How long was it abandoned for? Like, when did someone realize that it was, like, suspicious, or the next morning. Next morning. Oh, okay. And it took them that quickly to, like, look it up of, okay, the parents live there. And then the grandpa, like, did they contact a bunch of people?
Jack: Probably not the next morning. That was just a couple of hours. The girl just stayed overnight.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Which means the car was just parked on the Highway.
Cristina: And then they went to the grandma to look for the parents.
Jack: Well, not really. They probably went to the parent looking for the parents at the parents house. They probably ran the plates and they're like, somebody just parked out here.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: Chances are that car had a ticket.
Cristina: On it and stolen or something.
Jack: That was probably the initial realization. But the car was just parked there. There was no broken windows or anything. And so they didn't find the parents at the place. But you know, looking for contacts and whatever, they end up finding the grandma. And they're like, okay, yeah, weird, but whatever. And the car is just there. So at this point, the grandma. Stephanie and Jackie have not heard from the parents since the previous night. So they don't actually know why they would park and abandon the car. They just know that they parked and abandoned the car. But they did in fact confirm, yes, that is the car.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Very important. Which was the goal of the police being like, does this belong to whoever?
Cristina: Yeah. And they found out. Yes.
Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the car gets. Because it's on the highway, and the car. They're told that the car's been towed. The car. This is important for you to like, get in contact with these people and tell them. And they. They're like, yeah, whatever.
Cristina: They like, yeah, whatever. Yeah.
Jack: Like, they're gonna go and she's gonna contact them. Eventually she gets in contact with them. She's gonna be like, hey, your car.
Cristina: How long does it take for people to feel like, okay, maybe they're missing or something?
Jack: Or that's like a day, like a week.
Cristina: But she's not worried.
Jack: I mean, the car was just found parked on the highway, so she's very worried. It doesn't. Nothing told us she's worried. But I Like, we can reasonably assume you find a parked car on the highway unless she's dead on the inside. She's probably like, well, that's strange. I should probably be worried. It'd be crazy if the cops knock on the door in the morning and they're like, hey, this car was probably here overnight, but. And also, we didn't find the people in the car. Does this car belong to somebody who you know? Yeah, it's a car of my daughter. Okay. Yeah, it was abandoned.
Cristina: Nothing suspicious about the car.
Jack: It was abandoned in the highway. And besides that, Stephanie is like, oh, that's cool. And then the cops leave, and then she never again gives it a second thought. She's just like, what is. Stupid parents my granddaughter has that they would just park on the highway and walk away don't they know that's what parkings are made for? Not the emergency lane. You know, she's over here cooking, like, stupid child of mine. I taught them how to park. Why are they stopping on the highway? No, of course she's like, what the.
Cristina: F*** do you know which one is her child?
Jack: Her child is the girl.
Cristina: Oh, okay.
Jack: The. The mother.
Cristina: Mother. So she tries to contact her.
Jack: The mother of the daughter. Cc. Yeah, she tries to contact her. That does not work out. This is 2001. Presumably one of them had a cell phone. Probably not. It was probably house phone. And see, here's the problem. This is also why it's, like, less concerning, because there's no. There's not like, any. You can't immediately get in contact with anybody.
Cristina: Yeah. So it's going to be a while for her to be like, this is really dangerous. Or not dangerous, suspicious.
Jack: Like something horrible. No, it's already. Again, there's a car parked on the emergency lane in the highway, and there's nobody in the car. And we cannot seem to find the people whose car it is at home. Have you seen them? Nah, nah, it's already suspicious.
Cristina: Do they know, like, maybe the car. There was something wrong with the car, like it couldn't drive.
Jack: They don't. Which is actually an assumption that was made. Perhaps the cut. That's why they went to the house to find out.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Perhaps there was something wrong with the car that prevented the car from moving. They didn't have the car keys, so there was no way to just turn on the car and drive it away. The car was towed.
Cristina: Interesting.
Jack: Yes. But I'm assuming after the car was towed is when it's like, okay, we gotta contact the people whose car it is to then get them to come and get the car. But, oh, we can't find them.
Cristina: We can't find them.
Jack: So we need to do everything in our power to find them. Because we need our money.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: We gonna get gangster on these mofos. They better give us our guap.
Cristina: That's all they care about.
Jack: Care about. So they show up to the house, and the pope was like, there's nobody here. They probably knock the door down, get, boom, search the house for the money or whatever. Or whatever cops do, you know?
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: And then they dip. Find the money, and they're like, they're hiding. They don't want to pay. We're gonna find them by any means necessary.
Cristina: So they go to the grandma for the money.
Jack: So they go to the grandma, they beat that door down. Too. And they strong armed grandma. It's like, we know you're hiding them. We know. She's like, I've not seen them. You're lying. They tortured her for weeks trying to find out. You will tell us. They waterboarded her every night.
Cristina: But, like, when they dropped her off, the grandma didn't think anything weird was going on. Like, the parents seemed perfectly fine.
Jack: Yeah, yeah, the parents didn't seem. I mean, none of these reports tell me that, but like, the fact that nothing was mentioned. Mm, probably it was just like a normal day.
Cristina: Oh, okay.
Jack: Like their behavior wasn't strange enough that she would say, oh, they were being weird beforehand.
Cristina: Yeah, there's something going on. But okay, yeah, like, clearly I thought.
Jack: Something would happen because they were being so strange. No, that never happened. They were perfectly fine. Fine. But it got weird because although they didn't get in contact with them the first couple of hours, questions start to rise after the first day and they're still not around. And then the second day and they're still not around.
Cristina: Has the grandma told anyone about what the daughter had said?
Jack: No, she. The grandma actually completely forgot that the daughter even said this. It's totally escaped her that the reason this little girl was staying at her house in the first place is because she. Because you gotta understand, this girl has been complaining about this for a long time. So anything and everything that she says relative to Hank, it just goes tuned out to some degree.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Because, you know, they've dealt with it for a while.
Cristina: Yeah. And how's the girl behaving during this time while her parents are missing?
Jack: She doesn't know that her parents are missing.
Cristina: Oh, she doesn't.
Jack: She's not told a single thing. Why would you just freak this girl out? Especially if you're just gonna fight. What if you just find her parents and they're perfectly fine? They were just out there f****** somewhere. They went to a hotel. The f***? And you're gonna be like, oh, my God, your parents are missing? No, just, you know, she's protecting a little girl. The girl doesn't know anything, but. So it was totally forgotten. But eventually, after the second day, without hearing from the parents, the police determine, you know, this is. This is. Okay, now this is problematic. This is a missing person's case at this point.
Cristina: Oh, okay.
Jack: Yeah. So they're like, okay, we definitely need to organize a search party. We know where the car was. Let's start sending people out. It's, you know, if they have been kidnapped or if they're hurt, we Gotta get to them before like it's a wrap. So they send the search party and you know, as things go, they were searching the forest around the highway that the car was found.
Cristina: There's a forest around the highway.
Jack: Well, most highways cut through a forest.
Cristina: Oh that's. That sucks. But like the search sucks because it's gonna be hard to find them if they are in there.
Jack: I mean anytime somebody is missing around the highway, there's. You gotta search the forest next to the highway. That's never not been the case.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And like I think the point of a highway is that it cuts through the forest so that you can get to the next location. So I think every highway, unless you live in California through a forest. It's through a forest. Yeah. There might be nothing more normal.
Cristina: Yes. It just sucks as just like to search through though.
Jack: But no, because if this is the case and every highway is surrounded by a forest, you've already trained in searching every forest or not every forest, but you trained in searching through a forest. It's probably easier than searching through a city where there's alleys and buildings with multiple floors that somebody could be missing in.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: You just got complicated one dimension to look. It's a plane. You just walk through the plane. And that's why it's way easier. You know, it's the whole shallow grave scenario. It's like what's in the woods. It's kind of easy to stumble upon.
Cristina: You probably have search dogs too. That makes it even more easier.
Jack: Way easier. This like there's nothing easier than searching the woods.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Hard would be somebody went missing in the city. Well there's, I guess there's 5 million people in the city. How the f*** are you gonna find it?
Cristina: Could.
Jack: They could be walking by us and we might mess up.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: You know, the woods, ideal location for somebody to go missing. If you're gonna find them. The woods is where you want them to be.
Cristina: Alright.
Jack: And so after the two days they go and they organize a search party and start searching the woods. Now two days of search go by without finding anything.
Cristina: And the girl still doesn't know.
Jack: The girl still doesn't know. She's just staying with her grandma. But at this point the girl hasn't even talked to her parents on the phone or anything.
Cristina: So she's probably getting suspicious that something's.
Jack: Wrong or it's like a nine year old girl. Why would she get suspicious of anything?
Cristina: I don't know. Does that she have school or something to go to or she's Too young for that. You think?
Jack: This child is like, oh, my God, I should. She's like. She's remembering school.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: This is like a vacation. Yeah. This child's like, man, I need to. I need to go to school. It's important. My education comes first. What's happening?
Cristina: I miss my friends, maybe. I don't know.
Jack: This kid doesn't give a bro.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: But two days into the search and they. They find Jonathan, Jackie's father.
Cristina: Okay. Oh, Jonathan. That's good.
Jack: Yes. Yes. And he's actually found dead.
Cristina: Oh, no.
Jack: Yeah, he's. He's. His body is found resting against a tree deep in the forest. It's called a parallel forest, by the way. So deep in parallel forest, he. His body's found. Parallel forest is off. I don't know the name of the highway, but it's off the highway. And this is in Oklahoma. And so his body's just found, like, sitting against a tree.
Cristina: Sitting against the tree?
Jack: Yeah, sitting against the tree. And the coroner's report says that it was just a heart attack.
Cristina: Really?
Jack: Yeah. Like, he got out of the car, traveled the woods, started to have a heart attack, leaned against a tree to kind of like, brace himself, and died there.
Cristina: What? That's pretty insane.
Jack: Yeah. That's f****** crazy, right?
Cristina: Whoa.
Jack: It's like, whoa, dude, you were having a bad day.
Cristina: And then they find the lady?
Jack: They did not immediately. So it was actually.
Cristina: How many search days is this? So far?
Jack: It's been two days of searching without. So it was two days missing?
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Then two days of searching. It's been four days since they went. Since Jackie stayed with her grandma when they find her father. Okay, so four days between the day she goes to her grandma's and the day they find her father.
Cristina: Okay. Do they know how long he's been dead?
Jack: That is not established. I do not know.
Cristina: Oh, okay.
Jack: It was probably in. Somewhere in there, and I totally skimmed, so I don't know. The amount of time that comes by nex is three days before her mother is then found.
Cristina: What's her mom doing?
Jack: It's less about what her mom is doing, more about how weird it is what happened. So her mom is found in Modoc National Forest.
Cristina: Is that like super far from the forest that they're in?
Jack: Well, they're in Oklahoma and this forest is in California. What? That's weird.
Cristina: That's weird. What? What? Okay.
Jack: Yes. Also, she's found dead, and she's found sitting against a tree in the woods.
Cristina: From a heart attack.
Jack: The coroner's report claimed it Was a heart attack?
Cristina: No, she got a heart attack after walking from Oklahoma Street.
Jack: There's no way she could have walked that.
Cristina: That's not a four day walk or how long has it been at this point?
Jack: It's seven days. But that's not a seven day walk. You'd never make. You'd die long before then.
Cristina: Okay, but they think that's suspicious though, right?
Jack: She could have taken a ride there and died.
Cristina: I guess. That is so cr.
Jack: Like nobody's like, she walked there and died? No, again, only if you're expecting it to be weird will you conclude that these things are weird. Otherwise she just f****** left and had. Now again, the cops aren't connecting these dots. They're just like cops elsewhere found her. They're not like aware that again, cops in California found there. They're not like, hey man, does this woman over here have family that died elsewhere give a s***. They're just like a dead woman. So yeah, that's. But us observing it is like, whoa.
Cristina: Whoa, what does the grandma think of all this?
Jack: I know the grandma's tripping out, bro. She's like, what the. Because that's her daughter.
Cristina: Her daughter doesn't really believe her daughter ran away and then died.
Jack: Yeah, she didn't think her daughter parked the car, hitchhiked. The California died of a heart attack in the woods. Like, what party were they? Dude, that's some crazy drugs her and her husband were on. D***. I'm sure that probably crossed your mind though, like, what kind of crazy drugs were these crazy kids doing? Bath salts.
Cristina: Oh, maybe.
Jack: Man. Were bath salts even around in 2001? I don't think so. Right?
Cristina: No, it was just happening like Beth's.
Jack: Yeah, bath salts is like 2006. Maybe they had the first batch of bath salts. Yeah, they had like some super dysfunctional no kinks worked out.
Cristina: Oh my gosh.
Jack: Yeah, but that's nuts, bro.
Cristina: That is nuts. That's just like a mystery.
Jack: Yes, yes, it is. That is. That is precisely what it is.
Cristina: The cops don't do any more work. That's the end of their jobs.
Jack: I mean, what the are they supposed to. What do they think?
Cristina: The house, the car, why?
Jack: It's a heart attack. What are they supposed to do? The coroner said a heart attack. It's provably a heart attack. They're gonna be like, it was murder and someh. They caused the heart attack.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Like, no, they're just like, it was a heart attack. There's nothing beyond that point that they could do. The crazy cop that's like Dr. Housing it.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: He's like, this is a setup. I can feel it. I know the coroner's report says this, but in my gut, for whatever reason, I'm extra invested in this one random case, and I want to find out what really happened to this woman who was in the woods and died of a heart attack.
Cristina: So then what happens with the grandma? What does she do?
Jack: Panic? Her daughter died?
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: It's not like she's thinking clearly anymore. Her daughter died. She's just like, my daughter died of a heart attack. She probably forgot. She's not connecting dots. Her daughter died.
Cristina: Okay. I guess, yeah.
Jack: Your daughter dies, your next thought is, man, this little girl has something to it. Or I gotta investigate the murder of my daughter, who they've told me had.
Cristina: A heart attack like, in some other faraway place, like, I don't know. You don't think she, like, was kidnapped? No.
Jack: You just gotta think, my. What the f***?
Cristina: She had a heart attack in the middle of nowhere.
Jack: Right? Right. So the logic here is she got kidnapped and then had a heart attack and they dropped her in the woods. That's the logic you're expecting your grandma to have? Maybe this little girl's not safe with that grandma. If that's where that lady's mind goes, immediately like, well, the cop said the thing, but I know more has happened, but, like, there's no evidence that more has happened. The pros told you, yeah, it was a heart attack.
Cristina: It was a heart attack, but she ended up so far away.
Jack: That's a f****** nut. But again, her daughter died. She's not over here, like, considering the distance, she's like, oh, my God, what a tragedy.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Like, maybe afterwards, after the waters f****** calm down or whatever.
Cristina: Does she then tell her granddaughter, or is she living a lie now?
Jack: No, she doesn't tell her, Grant. I'm sure eventually she tells your granddaughter.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: But immediately, it doesn't make sense. You gotta kind of strategize what to do with life. Your daughter's dead. You're stuck with your granddaughter. Your next move isn't, your mom is dead.
Cristina: Mm. No.
Jack: You got like, okay, let me damage control first.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: I gotta, like, collect my emotions and I gotta, like, I guess I've adopted my granddaughter. Do you know the least of your concerns are, let me go tell my granddaughter her mom Is that. Then control her. I still don't know what I'm doing with this girl, but now I gotta worry about her emotions and, like, her mental stability, and she was already on edge.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: You know, like you're not gonna say s***. You're gonna think about the well being of the child.
Cristina: Yeah. While you're having a meltdown inside.
Jack: That is what parents do. That is what grandparents, that's what adults are supposed to do. You suck it the f*** up. You keep your head down and you problem solve. Because it's not about you or your emotions. It's about that other person you're trying to raise into a functional adult. There's no way her immediate reaction is, oh, my God, your parents are dead, Bo. Your mom is dead. Your dad's dead. Everybody around you is dying. Oh, my God. You're gonna die too one day. Like, that's awesome.
Cristina: I'm gonna die.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: What.
Jack: What's that from? I remember that. That was like scary movie or some, right?
Cristina: Probably, I think. Sounds like a scary movie thing.
Jack: Yeah. Your mom is dead. Your dad's dead. I'm gonna die too one day. Oh, my God, you're gonna die. It's just.
Cristina: Yes. I feel like that is one of those movies.
Jack: Yeah, it is, right?
Cristina: I can't making fun of that movie with the seven Days to Die scenario. You know, the one that if you watch the tape.
Jack: No, but I don't think it was out. I know exactly who the guy is saying it is.
Cristina: A kid who watched the tape.
Jack: I don't remember that part. I know the guy. He's. Who's saying it is the guy who was the brother of Char. Or not the brother, but whoever the h*** was Charlie Sheen's co star when he was the main character in Scary Movie. It was that one. It was that scary movie with Charlie Sheen and some other dude. Yes, I remember that much. Maybe that's the one with the ring.
Cristina: Yeah. Yeah. I'm pretty sure they own the farmhouse. That also. With the.
Jack: With the hole.
Cristina: Yeah, whatever. Yeah. Somehow leads all. All the stories are connected. I don't know.
Jack: Yeah. But the grandma is definitely not doing that to the girl. No, that's definitely not happening. That feels like the wrong move when everybody. When it's. That feels like the worst move when it's true, you know, it feels like a good troll, but it doesn't. It doesn't feel like too tasteful when it's real. It feels like bad timing to just freak out like that. But now she just sucked it up and like a good old lady, she's like, I've adopted this child. Now we need to go to her home and get clothing and crap to stay permanently. I suppose.
Cristina: Yeah. Get all the stuff.
Jack: Get Stuff? Yeah. No, I mean, not all the stuff. Just clothes and like, toothbrushes and junk like that, you know. So she goes to do all that stuff. Collects clothing and crap. But while there, the little girl says, Hank's there too. And Hank, now, she hasn't told this little girl s***. Hank tells a little girl, and the little girl tells her grandma that he said he killed her parents.
Cristina: No.
Jack: The chills that this lady must have f****** felt at that moment must be indescribable. She hasn't said anything yet. And this little girl just said Hank said he hurt my parents. Not just hurt. He killed them.
Cristina: He killed them.
Jack: He killed him. Those are words he told her. These are the words she told. She used the words killed. That is in the report. That is what said.
Cristina: What does the grandma do then? Like, what does she think? Does she believe her now? Or does she think her child's not. Child's granddaughter's insane.
Jack: Well, she's horrified by the way there's. This was on the news. This isn't just a bunch of police reports. This was reported on the news because the. The granny. Eventually. I'll let you know. So this was informed to the police about what happened, that the little girl said this.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And Stephanie, then. This is where this, like, spins the f*** out. Stephanie explains to the police. Let me take a step back. Stephanie gets institutionalized shortly after this. And the girl gets put into a foster home.
Cristina: What?
Jack: After Stephanie went to the house to collect the things. And the little girl, Jackie tells Stephanie this. She gets institutionalized. Stephanie gets institutionalized. Because Stephanie goes to the police. And Stephanie tells the police what the little girl said, but she proceeds to give some extra details that we did not know until this point. She says that a long, long time ago, when her husband was alive, she cheated on her husband with a guy named Hank.
Cristina: Stop lying. What? Continue. Continue. Yes. That's so crazy. Okay.
Jack: And Hank happened to be a British guy. And she always believed and never told her husband that he. She always believed he was the father of Victoria, her daughter.
Cristina: Wow.
Jack: She was convinced and kept this s*** a secret.
Cristina: Gosh. Okay.
Jack: Yeah. And then in explaining this, they're like, this whole family is nuts. And they institutionalize her. They thought she was, you know, dangerous f****** situation. Because at this point, she's talking about ghosts.
Cristina: Does, like, she know? Does she say what happened to him? Does she know?
Jack: No, she has no idea.
Cristina: Okay. But she's now believes the daughter because of the ex or whatever being the same ghost. Or at least that's what she thinks is Happening. This is her story. Her side of story is that she believes her ghost ex.
Jack: Well, now she's just, like, trying to explain anything. It's just like, I knew a guy named Hank or whatever, and blah, blah, blah. And it's just, you know, she's freaking out.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Now, again, she. She begged the police to listen so consistently, she was like, please, come on. This is totally happening. This is true. Hank f****** killed them or whatever the h*** the story here is. He told the little girl, little girl told me, but little girl isn't telling. The cops told the grandma, and the grandma's on the cops and sounds kind of nuts.
Cristina: And they're not gonna question the girl about it.
Jack: They are. I mean, you can question the little girl about her imaginary friend.
Cristina: If they think she knows something about the murder.
Jack: They don't.
Cristina: They.
Jack: Why would an imaginary friend tell you information about the murder?
Cristina: Isn't that what the grandma is saying that happened?
Jack: Yes, but the cops are like, well, this holds water. Both the parents died of a heart attack. Let's review that.
Cristina: Oh, yes. It's not a murder.
Jack: There is no murder. You're looking for the weird, so you're seeing it. But there's no weird so far because.
Cristina: If it was a murder, they would still talk to the girlies.
Jack: Now there's a problem. Yeah.
Cristina: Okay. But no, there's no murder. This grandma's just crazy.
Jack: This is a crazy grandma. Who said that? Her. Basically, she's spazzing the f*** out because she has crazy guilt.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: That's what they're saying. The guilt broke her. There was no murder. There's nothing suspicious. The coroner's report said it was a heart attack. So, yeah, this old lady gets put in an asylum and the little girl gets committed because of this crazy, right?
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: It's a nuts story.
Cristina: So, like, the gram. Or for their. They think she just made up these stories. Do they think she made up the stories of the imaginary friend? Like, that's all.
Jack: Maybe her, maybe. I don't know. I don't know why they would ever report that. But. But maybe. I guess it could. I guess the logic would be she made up the stories because she got committed. But, like, I don't know. They. They weren't like. Also, we think, you know, like, we also believe she made up the stories that the little girl was telling us or telling her or whatever.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: She made up all of it. Well, I guess that part. They think she made up all of it.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Now, after this case, right, the old lady gets committed and Jackie gets Placed in a foster home where she claims to spent her time with Hank. This. The. The. This is where this makes the news. This lady, her friend or something explains that Jackie, through her entire time staying at the foster home, always talked about this guy named Hank who she spent time with, but nobody saw her spend time with. With. Now, she never pretended to be around anybody, but she would always talk about her friend Hank.
Cristina: Okay, wait, the person telling story is a friend of hers?
Jack: Yeah. So there's a bunch of this is pieced together by a bunch of crap.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And now we're talking about the news report that Fox had about 9 wondering why is there a report about this? So the news report that Fox had where the friend of her was talking and explaining that she was always talking about this guy Hank. But, like, we spent almost all time together. There's no way she knew a guy named Hank. And she leaves the foster home at 18, so, you know, taking contacts for too long. But on her 21st birthday, Jackie's found.
Cristina: Dead from her heart attack. No. I don't know.
Jack: In a forest.
Cristina: No.
Jack: Leaning against a tree. From a heart attack, according to Connor's report.
Cristina: Oh.
Jack: What?
Cristina: That. What. Who pieced the story together if no one believed any of it, or I guess, like, afterwards. Because this friend at least heard stories about Hank.
Jack: About Hank. Yes, she knew about Hank. She didn't know who the h*** Hank was. She just heard about the guy named Hank. And then working backwards, they come across the information necessary to then claim all these things. So there's enough police reports, there's coroner reports, there's the documents that put the grandma in the asylum, and the grandma is still alive to ask questions to. So. Yeah.
Cristina: So did the grandma have more information?
Jack: Knew Grandma knew what she knew, and that was it.
Cristina: Oh, I don't understand. Like, this is supposed to be some weird ghost story, or is this a real person that's stalking a family?
Jack: I don't know. It's crazy, right?
Cristina: Yeah, because, like, I don't get it. Like, how are they dying from heart attacks?
Jack: That's the craziest part. The immediate thing I thought about when I was checking this out was like, somebody has a death note. Somebody. Like, how is everybody going off of a heart attack, bro?
Cristina: Yes. Walking into a forest. And. Yeah.
Jack: It's like somebody wrote the instructions ahead of time, and then it's like, just put the name a heart attack. How weird. It could have been anything else. They could have just all walked off a bridge.
Cristina: I don't understand. Like, why would. If this was like A ghost story. Why he would have this much hate to do all that? Like, did her husband murder him? Or something like that would make sense, I guess, as revenge. I don't know. Like, we don't know anything.
Jack: Yeah. The problem with the. When stories like this are real is that somebody's withholding information because they don't want to look bad. So maybe if this was a re. If this is a ghost story, if this is a ghost doing this, somebody had to do something to him, right?
Cristina: Yeah. Like, besides lying about. There's no way that that's the whole truth.
Jack: Yeah. That some, like, this old lady knows. Like, my husband died because he was killed by the guy because he went out to kill him in the first place or whatever.
Cristina: Yeah. Or he just killed the guy and then that's it. That's all she knows. Like, oh, my lover just disappeared one day after I got pregnant.
Jack: Well, interesting enough, she did say that she cheated on her husband with the guy, but never told the husband that she thought that was the father of the daughter. But did her husband not know or did he know?
Cristina: What if he did know and then killed the guy? Yeah. And this was his revenge.
Jack: Yeah. 100 it could be. But also, why would he kill his own daughter? Unless that wasn't actually his daughter? She only thought it was.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Again, she wasn't sure. She was convinced, but it.
Cristina: She was convinced. And maybe her husband was also convinced.
Jack: Yes. But maybe he just wasn't. And it's like, you killed me for nothing.
Cristina: Yeah. Whoa. That could totally be it. Who knows? But, like, yeah, if that was his daughter, why do this? Why? Murder. It's just too much murder to be like.
Jack: It's no murder.
Cristina: No. Well, whatever.
Jack: To this moment, there has not been a single murder.
Cristina: Suspicious heart attacks.
Jack: Yes. Ex absorbently suspicious heart attacks.
Cristina: Yes. I don't know. Like, if we don't count him in, then what is happening? How did they. Why and what the.
Jack: Do the woods have to do with anything?
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Or the forest. Whatever.
Cristina: Forest. Yeah.
Jack: Also, weirder question. Why is the mom all the way in California?
Cristina: Yes. How? Why?
Jack: Well, how? She probably hitchhiked there. But, like, what?
Cristina: Maybe Frank was from there. Who knows? I don't know none of that. Hank. Hank. Is it Frank? Yeah, whatever.
Jack: No, he was from England.
Cristina: Yeah, but he lived somewhere in America afterwards. Like, she met him in England.
Jack: Unclear. She dated a British guy and he worked at a lighthouse off the coast of England.
Cristina: Yes, but was she dating him there? I don't think so.
Jack: I mean, how would she date a guy Working at the lighthouse. Yeah, but I guess he worked at the lighthouse. It doesn't necessarily mean. No, it was off the coast. So he wasn't, like, on. On a f****** island, I guess.
Cristina: I'm guessing he vacationed in America or something. Yeah.
Jack: Like, how'd she meet him? You know, unless she vacationed. But no, this. Okay, so if we're trying to make this make sense, he had to come over here.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Not the other way around. So she just had, like, a fling. Probably in California.
Cristina: Exactly, because maybe she was on vacation.
Jack: Maybe they were both on vacation, man. In California. Some s*** went down. Then she confessed to her husband. Her husband went over there immediately and off. The guy. Maybe. She was in vacation with her husband, obviously. And then, you know, wild night where he was just at home. She was, you know, I'm gonna go hang out at the bar. You don't want to come out, whatever. And, you know, things happen. Goes home with Hank or not even goes home. Maybe Hank rents a car. Something happens with Hank, and then she feels. Oh, well, the pregnancy I have isn't my husband. Oh, my God. Yeah, but it was totally. Was your husband. And then your husband finds out because you confess or something. Oh, honey, I'm so sorry.
Cristina: I thought she kept it a secret. I mean, she did keep a secret from her daughter, I'm assuming, because she just let it out after everything happened, but I don't know. Yeah, I think she probably confessed.
Jack: Yeah. Yeah. To her husband.
Cristina: Yeah, Exclusively.
Jack: And so. So then the order of events were going by. Is lady lives in Oklahoma. She then has a vacation in California.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: By the Murdoch National Forest, actually. When her husband, for whatever reason, isn't with her and she happens to meet a guy named Hank, they have a fling in the forest. Yeah, that's where they f******.
Cristina: Oh, the plot thickens. Yes.
Jack: They f*** in the forest.
Cristina: And he probably was killed in the forest or his body was hidden in the forest after he was killed.
Jack: One of Holy. That's exactly what happened. They didn't f*** in the forest. They probably in the car parked by the forest.
Cristina: Oh, my gosh.
Jack: She explains to her husband what happened. Her husband goes and kills the guy, takes him to the forest. It just so happens to be the nearby forest. So both events take place there.
Cristina: Yes. And she has no clue what he's doing.
Jack: She has no clue that he did this. She just knows she confessed.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: The end. That's her. The extent of her knowledge. Her husband did the rest, and he has no reason to. He's horrified that he did this. He's not gonna be like, I killed a guy and threw him in the forest.
Cristina: Yeah. That's a secret he dies with.
Jack: Yeah. They go back home. She's pregnant. She does not tell her husband that she believes that's the other guy's baby. But she does believe that the other guy's baby. Which is probably not the case. It's probably just her husband's child. She's just guilty. She feels guilty.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And all these other thoughts are associated with the guilt. Simple. Simple. One plus one equals two. Most cases. But sometimes it could equal one as well. But we're not gonna dive into this. Into the semantics of how math is kind of difficult to understand. So he kills a guy. She doesn't tell him. She thinks it's his baby. Totally not his baby. But this lady grows up, marries a guy named Jonathan, and then they have a daughter named Jackie. And then Jackie has an imaginary, unquote friend.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: For whatever reason, this guy is messing with this girl. I guess this spirit is just waiting. And then one day, the moment arrives and the whole scenario happens. So car by the woods where she probably f***** in the first place. The guy. Because it's just possibility. And then the bodies in the woods where her late husband had buried. Not literally in the first instance, but that's why the mom, the actual biological one.
Cristina: Mm. Is buried over there.
Jack: Not buried.
Cristina: Found over there.
Jack: Yes. Interesting enough, I wouldn't be surprised if the guy's body is beneath that tree. But they would have had no reason to look.
Cristina: No.
Jack: Also, that happened so f****** long ago. There's no sign on the dirt.
Cristina: Yeah. There's no way that they could piece that together.
Jack: Yeah. So it's just a dead lady.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: But the guy who isn't her father is buried directly beneath her.
Cristina: Possibly.
Jack: What?
Cristina: That's crazy.
Jack: The idea here is that all of this happened, everybody in this lady's family died because of her f****** cheating on her husband in her first place.
Cristina: The ghost got his revenge by not killing her.
Jack: By not killing her. Letting her stay alive to watch all this. To know her family's dead.
Cristina: Yeah, like he really had it out for her.
Jack: Maybe she could. The problem is, maybe she could have stopped her husband. Maybe just not telling him would have been the right move.
Cristina: Yeah. Or maybe she has suspicious also that he did something to Hank and just never said anything. Like she's living with that guilt.
Jack: Interesting.
Cristina: It's way more than just.
Jack: Yeah, she could definitely have an inkling and, like you didn't avenge his death.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And it's Your fault he's dead. Yeah, like you didn't redeem yourself.
Cristina: But what if it has nothing to do with her story or whatever? Like, what if this girl did have an imaginary friend that was a ghost? Maybe in the house? Is that possible? I don't know. Like. But he has the name of the other guy.
Jack: Yes, yes, yes. The name is where this immediately becomes a ghost story.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: If the name didn't line up, then it wouldn't be a ghost. And who he killed. Why wasn't it. Why didn't he just hurt the little girl?
Cristina: Why did he take all these steps? Like. But it feels like it also, it wasn't in his control either. Because you say he like, changed over time. He was friendly at first, and then he just grew more and more hateful.
Jack: And that's interesting, right? What's that about? That's also where it gets kind of creepy. The rest of it is. It's more of a mystery. Everything is mystery until you get to the silent hill aspect of the little girl. That one patch is like, what happened because he was just playing with her, which would then make you think, no, that is your daughter. That's your granddaughter. That's your granddaughter.
Cristina: Unless he didn't have all his memory and he was gaining it. And that's what's all the glitchiness. Not glitchy, but, you know, the odd.
Jack: Behavior that's somehow somewhere, some such is so horrifying. I don't know why that disturbed me. The fact that he's a ghost with no memories. And then suddenly the memories start coming. It's f****** twitching and.
Cristina: Yeah. And then the hate starts growing. But that's real hate that he had before he died. But he just didn't have it at the moment when he met the girl. I guess. Like it just formed.
Jack: Interesting. Interesting.
Cristina: Like that makes sense because he was playing with her. He was normal. He was like, whatever.
Jack: Yes. And then slowly, gradually, more corrupted, broken, more twisted.
Cristina: Yeah. Like that's very strange. Could it be because it. What does that even mean? A ghost gaining memories?
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: How's that a thing like that means.
Jack: He was a goat. An incomplete ghost to some degree.
Cristina: Yes. I don't know. That's like.
Jack: And why focus on the little girl unless you're actually related? Related?
Cristina: You think? Maybe. I don't know.
Jack: If it wasn't, then he would have just focused on the old lady. But he didn't. In fact, the old lady was completely left out of it. That part right there makes me think that's actually the Victoria Is actually his daughter.
Cristina: Okay. Because he was around her. Well, sort of.
Jack: Daughter. He's around the daughter. Somebody in the family. As opposed to being around Stephanie, the grandmother.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: That makes me think. Yes. And I guess it would hold. The story would still hold. So Stephanie and her husband go on vacation. For whatever reason, one night, she's not with her husband. She meets a British man named Hank, who happens to also be in a vacation. They're from Oklahoma, but they're vacationing in California by the Modoc woods. She has a flame in the car parked on the side of the highway with Hank. She does get pregnant by Hank. She confesses to her husband what happened.
Cristina: Yes. And he goes. Fine.
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: Hank. He goes find Hank. Kills him in the woods.
Jack: Well, kills him and.
Cristina: And then buries him in the woods.
Jack: Probably.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Could have killed him in the woods, could have killed him somewhere else. Regardless, he kills him.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: And he puts him in the woods.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: Then they leave. But she is, in fact, pregnant. She doesn't tell her husband that she's pregnant with his. The other guy's baby. He thinks this is his child.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: But it's not. Fast forward. Hank's spirit follows the bloodline manifests to the little girl. His granddaughter.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Because victorious. His actual daughter.
Cristina: It has to be. Maybe. But I wonder if she had an imaginary friend and the grandma just doesn't remember. But then again, she would have known. Like, this would have.
Jack: Like this would have happened already. Yeah, it would have already happened. There would have been. No, no, Jackie, no. Because Victoria is where it would have ended.
Cristina: Why was a heart attack?
Jack: Why would a heart attack. That's another thing that doesn't make sense. Because why wouldn't they just show up dead and then have no trace as a. Why, like, you know, like, only clearly murdered, stabbed to death, or, like, beat to death or whatever. But there's no trace of who did it. That would make sense. That's like. Okay, whatever happened to you, you did to them.
Cristina: Yeah. Unless he somehow died from a heart attack. Can you cause someone to have a heart attack?
Jack: I don't know. Maybe he hit him in the chest a couple of times, punch him in the chest repeatedly, and kill the guy by accident. Maybe. Maybe he went to beat the guy up, not kill him, and he beat the guy into having a heart attack. Maybe by hitting him in the chest, the guy dies. Then he goes ahead and buries the body in the panic. That's why this was never reported.
Cristina: Yeah, well, no matter how he did it.
Jack: But so the good. So Hank dies of A heart attack. And then he makes sure that the bloodline dies of a heart attack.
Cristina: Yes. Why kill the husband, though?
Jack: Yes. Because he's not related.
Cristina: It's not related. Yeah, but.
Jack: But keeping this in mind, maybe he sees Victoria and Jonathan as individuals that are mirroring what Stephanie did. Maybe they're not doing the same event. But he doesn't have a husband to take revenge out on. He has a daughter and his daughter has a husband to take revenge out on. Yeah, there's a husband somewhere.
Cristina: And I wonder how much the daughter reminds him of the mother of Stephanie.
Jack: Interesting. And then he's just. Yeah, it could totally be. It could totally be.
Cristina: It's just a weird build out. Like I don't feel. It doesn't feel like he planned it out from the beginning. Unless he. Maybe he did. I don't know. But then it's just weird. But we don't know the whole story.
Jack: We don't know the whole story because why would she tell us?
Cristina: Yeah, but I mean, like the little girl story too, of how he was friendly and then he just over times becomes a different person? Pretty much.
Jack: Well, here's what's interesting. The girl in the foster home isn't being tortured by Hank. Hank is just fine. It's just stories of being with Frank and spending time with him.
Cristina: That's also weird because she knows he killed her parents at this point.
Jack: Interesting. I wonder if this girl has some suppression problems going on, huh? Because it is traumatic. It's particularly traumatic. Your parents disappear, you got this crazy f***** tells you he killed them. Your grandma gets put away. You're young.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: You just create a blockade.
Cristina: I guess that would be the only way because, like, how are you living with all this nonsense going on? This is nonsense.
Jack: Like, interesting.
Cristina: What? Like she had. Did she believe him? Does she not believe him? You wouldn't know. I mean, her friends weren't worried about it. They were like, ah, she has an imaginary friend. Whatever.
Jack: She's an immature individual. At the end.
Cristina: She wasn't seeing a therapist. Still during that time, I maybe, like.
Jack: She'S already been seeing a therapist, so it wouldn't be like, crazy.
Cristina: Oh, and there's no story from them.
Jack: Why this? It would be illegal.
Cristina: Oh, there.
Jack: There's probably a crap ton of notes that nobody's ever gonna see because that would be illegal.
Cristina: This is. It's just a weird story, man. She did it. No. How did she do it?
Jack: Anyways, that's the story of Jackie and Stephanie.
Cristina: How she killed her parents.
Jack: No, I don't Know how her parents died.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: So interesting, though.
Cristina: Yeah. A weird case of random heart attacks.
Jack: Random heart attacks and a crazy old lady with crazy stories.
Cristina: Yeah. Yeah, that's what it sums some.
Jack: Three heart attacks and a crazy old lady with crazy stories. Anyways. Anyways. Anyways. So we're totally way over the time here, but good. Bad, bad. Middle ground.
Cristina: Middle ground.
Jack: I think definitely not as horrifying as whatever the h*** happened last week at the Biovent is like, bro, that's horrifying. But this is just. This is just a weird.
Cristina: It's very weird.
Jack: It's very strange.
Cristina: It's.
Jack: It's probably just like.
Cristina: It's a bit icky. I don't know. Yeah, yeah.
Jack: And there's. Again, there's no murder anywhere.
Cristina: There's no murder, but it's very suspicious. Everything is like. It's not right.
Jack: It's not suspicious. It's very. Yeah, it's just not right. Right. There's just something like. This is weird.
Cristina: Three heart attacks. No way. In the forest. No way.
Jack: Yeah. And all of them in the same.
Cristina: Exact way in different forests. None of them in the same forest. Nope. That's very weird.
Jack: That is weird. Anyways, Anyways. Anyways, if you guys enjoy spooky stuff, we got two other episodes right before this one that are strange circumstances that.
Cristina: Have happened in life, and we have other episodes. Episodes. Older episodes.
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: About weird, strange, real events.
Jack: Yes. There's a bunch. And not just real, there's a bunch of just like mythical crap that's weird, too. And like a bunch of horrifying creatures everywhere. There's a plethora. We. We kind of circle horror often, although we don't word it in horror kind of ways. There's a lot of creepy we talk about when you think about it.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: And you can find all that on the podcast platforms. Any of them. And if there's one we're not on, like, I don't know, send us a message. And you could actually send us that message on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram @justcomfopod, as well as find a bunch of clips and crap there.
Cristina: Awesome. And remember to subscribe, rate, and review the show.
Jack: Word of mouth, incredibly important. So, you know, if you. I guess that's not even word of mouth, but. How do I put it? If you rate the show, though, it's the equivalent of word of mouth, I guess, because we move up, you're telling.
Cristina: People, hey, but if you review it, aren't you doing the same thing?
Jack: Yeah, if you rate it, you bring us up and you're like, hey, worth looking at. And if you review it, you're literally letting people know. Letting people know with words. Although not words of mouth. It's words of keyboards.
Cristina: Yes. Words of keyboard. Yes. Okay. I let someone who might like this show know about it.
Jack: Thus insert the word of mouth.
Cristina: Yes. This has been the Rambling podcast. Take nothing personal. Thanks for listening. Bye. And these penguin guards, what are they? They're just. They're just guards.
Jack: They're guards. There's some sort of chimera of some sort or some man made creature. Maybe there's. Maybe there's birds and penguins over the. I don't f****** know, man. I don't pay attention. Yeah, we're. Our job is inside the.
Cristina: Inside the wall. Yeah. That's why we don't really travel outside the wall.
Jack: Yeah. There's no reason to.
Cristina: Yeah. Everything is in here. Yeah.
Jack: Yeah. So that's definitely, you know, that's what's happening there. And the reason that it's connected to Martin Luther King is actually that Martin Luther King, he had to communicate with the people from the other side of the wall to get help to establish laws that would help inside the wall.
Cristina: He had to do that.
Jack: He didn't directly. Basically, Martin Luther King would have secret meetings with President. What the h*** was his name? Lynn? Lyndon.
Cristina: Lyndon.
Jack: Lyndon Johnson. Yeah, President Lyndon Johnson. Martin Luther King would have special meetings with President Lyndon Johnson. This is fact secret meeting. Some of them were recorded unknowing. And these meetings took place because, you know, as, you know, world leaders communicate with higher ups and the chain goes all the way to the top of the Illuminati, top of Freemasons, top of government, all these things that usually manage from outside the wall. And so he needed to talk to the president to get messages from the president to the overseers and overlords on the other side of the wall to then get resources sent back so that we can, you know, they would have advice, they would send people to help and black neighborhoods need help or whatever. And so people would show up that like, where are those people from? But, you know, so much help, we're not gonna question it. And it's because people from over the wall are showing up to help.
Cristina: Good morning. Good morning. This podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by greatthoughts.info art by 0lupo and logo by Seth McAllister with social media managed by Amber Black.
