Rambling 169: Real Magic
/
Is magic real? What exactly is magic? Who has the ability to use magic effectively? The duo crack open the case of magic in an attempt to once and for all determine which things are and which things aren’t. What they come across while investigating is highly unexpected and changes what they understand about how our universe works forever!
+Episode Details
Topics Discussed:
- Baba Yaga
- Witches
- Wizards
- Magic
- Slide of Hand
- Hypnosis
- Illusionists
- Alchemists
- Jehovah of Light
- Jehovah of Dark
- Shadow Realm
- Lucifer
Our Links:
Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast
Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod
Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod
Instagram -https://instagram.com/justconvopod
+Transcript
Cristina: This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.
Jack: Going live in 5, 4.
Cristina: What does live mean? Welcome to the Rambling Podcast, the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas in childish ways. I'm your host, Christina.
Jack: And I'm Jack.
Cristina: And if you haven't yet, remember to hit that subscribe button to get notified the second new episode episodes are released.
Jack: And also, this show is most enjoyable with a listening partner. So get ready. Get ready to have an epic listening session. I was about to that up and say conversation, but, like, you're not. You're not gonna talk with us. They're not talking with us. I was about to say they're listening to a conversation. They're gonna have a listening session. Yeah, we're having a con. They're not gonna have an epic con. I mean, you can.
Cristina: They can.
Jack: You can talk to. I guess you can talk to whatever. Talk to your phone, go to the of places, put this podcast and start screaming at your phone with your opposing opinions and topics on topics. Your opinions on topics you discuss.
Cristina: Yes, you should do that.
Jack: Yeah. Invite randoms. Create, like, a circle where you're screaming and you yelling at your phone. Shut the f*** up. And that other person agrees with one of us and you disagree with us. And now you start hitting some f****** other random person over some s*** that's totally irrational because you're probably in universe 3 anyways, and none of this really affects your life. But you're so invested in the episode.
Cristina: What do you think people will think of them, though?
Jack: Well, everybody who's already invested listening is sucked in because we're hypnotic. Between your soothing tones and my manic extremism.
Cristina: But the people watching.
Jack: Who's watching them?
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Oh, I don't know. The people watching them are like, wow, this must be really important. They probably think it's happening in universe three, you know, the way things happen.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: This is all part of whatever thing we don't know about because, you know, they don't know about s***. Like, he's theorizing this, and they're theorizing theories, and then they come in with their theories, and everybody's just a ball of theories beating the s*** out of each other.
Cristina: Yes. Although this show's not about theories.
Jack: Well, no, we're talking about the truth they're over there talking about. Because everything in this universe is real. Everything that's real over here is just like a hypothetical maybe over there.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: As things go.
Cristina: Yes. Like Baba Yaga.
Jack: Like Baba Yaga.
Cristina: Or his name.
Jack: It's a him.
Cristina: Well, in just one version. The newest one with Keanu Reeves.
Jack: Oh.
Cristina: Oh, that's my favorite.
Jack: Baba Yaga, the Disney whatever. But you know what? Yeah, I guess it's magical how he swoops in and just. Murder. Murders.
Cristina: I just wonder where's his magical house with the chicken legs?
Jack: The. The guy burned it down.
Cristina: The guy burned it that didn't have chicken legs. Maybe he gets it in the next house. Oh, he has to replace it.
Jack: This is a Baba Yaga origin story.
Cristina: Yes. Even though he's been living like Baba Yaga for a long time, like, he's retired.
Jack: That's how far in the other end. But Baba Yaga isn't like, they called him Baba Yaga. Now we're going to see how he becomes an ethereal witchy thing.
Cristina: Yes. Yes. What if that's what's next? Yeah.
Jack: Now, my question about something like Baba Yaga is like, so Baba Yaga is magic, but is. Is it a witch? Is it a creature of magic? Somebody who can use magic? And if somebody who can use magic. Because we. We have a lot of weird things, right?
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: We have this second realm, the shadow realm. And in the shadow realm, there are beings that are born over there and creatures of that end. And my idea is, like, science gets creatures over there, and creatures over there don't have magic. They have abilities that are natural to that world. It's not magical when they're over here. Like a G. Ghost isn't magic, or a werewolf isn't magic. Actually, a lot of the time it's science. It's genetics that we're talking about. Because a lot of this stuff uses the powers that come from adrenochrome, or the creatures that manifest on this end are using fear, which isn't magic. It's some sort of fuel for creatures of the other side. But like, Baba Yaga is a. If I'm not confused, it's a type of. Well, what about. To my understanding, it's some sort of witch.
Cristina: She is a witch.
Jack: Okay. But there are other witches as well.
Cristina: There are other Baba Yagas sometimes.
Jack: Oh, that's interesting.
Cristina: Sometimes she has sisters named Baba Yaga.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: So there's more than one of her. And sometimes she has a daughter called Baba Yaga. I don't know her daughter's name. I don't remember her name. It could be Baba Yaga Yu Junior. But, yeah, it seems like she is also. I don't know where her magic come from or if it is magic or maybe it's adrenochrome. Because I know she eats people.
Jack: I don't know why she would need to eat people. She's. It's. She's just a cannibal.
Cristina: Actually, you don't. You never see her. I don't know if she's eaten people. The pe. The stories that I've read. She tries to throw people into her oven, but it doesn't happen. So what if she's just doing it for the fear that she would get from them, thinking, oh, my gosh, I'm gonna be eaten alive.
Jack: But what does a witch need fear for?
Cristina: For what she thinks is magic, but it's actually the power of adrenochrome.
Jack: But no, but wait. Unless she's actually eating them. She only gets the adrenochrome if she eats them. If she's scaring them, she's not getting anything. She's not from the Shadow realm.
Cristina: But she might be eating them too. I don't know. It seems like fear or blood is good.
Jack: But how is a mortal of Earth using fear? There's zero examples of that working out. Everything we've gotten so far suggests that it's entirely something that creatures from the shadow realm, including, as we recently discovered.
Cristina: Jehovah of Dark and Santa Claus. What is he, do we say?
Jack: Interest. Interesting point. All the gods seem to somehow use fear. Yeah, but are we to say the gods were mortal?
Cristina: Yes. Yes, I think so.
Jack: Interesting. So not only creatures of the shadow realm, but when you cross a certain threshold of natural a bit. So people. Wow. No, so you're totally right. It's. It hasn't just been creatures from the shadow Realm. No, because we also know that whatever the big baddest of gods is, was probably human. Well, he leveled up from something lower.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Through fear.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: And occasionally adrenal chrome, when that was the only result. And at these giant colossal levels, you don't become corrupt if you don't have the. But then you always got a steady stream of at least fear happening, so you can never really go feral. Unless that's what happened to God of Dark. But God of Dark came from the shadow realms. It was never necessarily our understanding.
Cristina: We don't know where he came from. We're assuming he came from the Shadow Realm.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: So I don't know where it starts. Does it start there? Does it start here?
Jack: Well, that God starts over there. Well, we don't know where began is the people of Atlantis.
Cristina: Oh, yeah.
Jack: That's what we don't know the origin to. Yeah, but we Nailed down where Jehovah of Dark comes from. But what you're. What you're proposing here is actually really rational that. Because we have proof of some gods that have upgraded through these means, including St. Nicholas, who somehow became an overpowered deity of sorts.
Cristina: Yes, and St. Patrick.
Jack: And St. Patrick. But St. Patrick doesn't use fear.
Jack: We know Santa Claus does that. He upgraded from pure mortal to seemingly one of the most overpowered gods that have ever existed. While we still call most other gods, including. Including Jehovah of Light and Jehovah of Dark. Demigods.
Cristina: Yes, we.
Jack: We kind of. It's hard to say that Santa Claus falls under that he might be like an actual omniscient God.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: But he's doing it off of fear, and he began as a mortal, so. Good. Good argument.
Cristina: Yes. It's only feared as long as. So far, there's no blood involved.
Jack: As far as we know.
Cristina: As far as we know.
Jack: So Baba Yaga, you're saying, is similar to this? That they're using fear and maybe Adrenoch.
Cristina: Adrenocar. Yes. Yes, she is. And there's a male version of her, too. Although she sometimes is good, sometimes is bad, but in her story, she's not always an evil witch. Sometimes she's a helpful witch.
Jack: So there's like an actual good, but.
Cristina: It could be multiple different Baba Yagas. So it doesn't matter. Like, there could be, like. I think of it like wizards from Harry Potter. There's a bunch of witches learning the same thing from the school. So they're all similar. They all know everything.
Jack: Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. What does the. The term Baba Yaga mean?
Cristina: The term.
Jack: Like, what are we talking about when we say Baba Yaga? Because, okay, there's some good, there's some bad. So then we're misunderstanding what it is. It's not a name because there's good and bad and there's different ones. It's some sort of title. What does that title mean?
Cristina: I don't remember. I think it has to do with how she looks. I think it's describing how she looks, but I can't remember what language in German. Slavic. What? Slavic. It's like, in the area. Russian. Russia. Whatever that area.
Jack: Wait, Baba Yaga is a Russian witch?
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Do you know, it's weird that I never thought about this, but, like, okay, where are most witches from?
Cristina: Where are most witches from?
Jack: Yeah. Like, okay, the Salem Witch Trials. That's in Salem.
Cristina: In America.
Jack: Salem is not a place. Yeah, Salem is in America?
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Where the f*** is Salem?
Cristina: In Massachusetts.
Jack: Interesting. So most witches are American?
Cristina: No, they're all over the world.
Jack: No, they're obviously. I said most, not all, almost most.
Cristina: I don't know. America did have a lot.
Jack: A lot. Somehow witches are an American thing.
Cristina: No, there, there. There's a lot of places.
Jack: No, I get that. I get that. There's also pizza from everywhere. But like, even if literally Italy made.
Cristina: It there before America, there was a witch problem in Europe. They had the mass hysteria over witches first.
Jack: Interesting.
Cristina: It started over there. It came over here after that was done.
Jack: So witches are European.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Now where specifically in Europe did they come from? And also, like, is Europe the origin of witches? Because I know voodoo priestess are a version of w. Witches.
Cristina: Oh, I'm not sure which one came first.
Jack: I think that might predate the European witches because voodoo priestess we're talking are like island, African islands and like Bahama area and like all these native islands and African regions. So the question then is, do voodoo priestess predate the word witch? And is the word witch just the European word for voodoo priestess? And it just so happens to be that Europeans are light skinned and voodoo priestess tend to be dark skinned. But the concept is the same. We grab a couple of these things, do a couple of those things, and magic, poof, something happens. And I wanted it to.
Cristina: Yeah, I think. Yeah. The first one that you said of voodoo priestess came first.
Jack: Like it might. It's migration.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Interesting.
Cristina: And then Europe went crazy over it because I think in most of the world it wasn't an evil thing. There are bad witches and good witches.
Jack: Yes, that's usually the case. The majority of witches are good. It's just things you do and you control certain weird elements of nature through what we would call magic. And then there's the ones who are like, I'll do whatever the f*** I want with it for my own personal gain.
Cristina: Yes. But the stuff that was happening in Europe and America was nothing related to actual witches as far as we can tell. There was probably just people going crazy, like with the werewolves, like just hunting people down and saying they're a witch to kill them. Why? I don't know.
Jack: But interesting. Well, we found out that most of the stories of werewolves were just people mischaracterizing things.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: But then we also found out that the idea of a werewolf is unrelated to the actual werewolf. Those are two different things. You can give a wolf adrenochrome. Well, I guess. No, that's different. You can give a wolf adrenochrome and you end up with a wet judge. No. After it dies. What the f*** do we get if we know that is a werewolf? It's like a weird f******. Because it's not a man. Necessarily.
Cristina: Man.
Jack: Which the problem is you give a wolf adrenochrome and you get like, a f****** weird freak of nature. Werewolf.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: That thighs. It becomes a wet judge.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: And no actually win dingo. And if it can't continue to get.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Fear or blood. No, we're wrong somewhere in here.
Cristina: No, I think that because.
Jack: What's the feral version of the werewolf? Oh, no. There's a Lycan and a werewolf. So the werewolf. The werewolf is the bad one, I think. And then the Lycan is the bad one. Or the werewolf is the one with control. Got it. Werewolf is control. Feral is a Lycan. Regardless of what happens, you become a Wendigo. And if you can't get fear, then you become a wetchudge. Great. But also, people saw what they thought was people going through the same thing, and like, well, there's a native in there. It's a man wolf.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And werewolf. It was just a dude in tribal.
Cristina: Yeah. He had that furry pelt. And then they came up with the stories. He turns into a wolf with that pelt.
Jack: Exactly. Because there are actual weird freak of nature where. I mean, werewolves that aren't human in those woods.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: And it's just because we know that during these battles, wolves come out of nowhere and start licking the adrenal crumbs. Whole thing. And poking out. You got a f****** monster.
Cristina: Yeah. I wonder. What. How the whole witch thing came. I know there's, like, lines in the Bible that say, hey, don't talk to witches.
Jack: Don't be witchy.
Cristina: Don't be witchy.
Jack: But then. Yeah. Because what you're talking about makes perfect sense. Right. So if we apply the logic that in most narratives there is the real case and the fake case and that the lines get blurred somewhere in the middle.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Then, yes, there are real witches. But a real witch must turn into something. If there could, anything that consumes adrenochrome changes.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: So there must be witches that are doing fake magic, witches that are doing real magic that does not, in any case, involve blood. Blood or fear.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And then some other s*** that's scaring people and then f****** eating them.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: So that would say that this is what we mean when we say Baba Yaga.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: There's witches. Or there's posers. Witches. And Baba Yagas and Baba Yagas. Baba Yagas are adrenochrome and. Or fear witches. And then there's magic witches, which are talking dark and light magic. So we don't really know what that is, do we?
Cristina: Dark and light magic, like magic versus.
Jack: What Baba Yaga is doing. Is there a. Do we understand what real magic is? Enough. Because we even thought that the cat people were using real magic. It's just technology.
Cristina: Real magic is like prayers that you tell your God, our gods, or whatever. I don't know. I don't know the difference between a witch and a priest. I don't know. They're doing the same thing. They got a God, they got a book, they got prayers.
Jack: Interesting. Interesting.
Cristina: Whatever you want to call it.
Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Cristina: So then they both have altars, they have candles. I'm pretty sure they both have candles.
Jack: Yes. It's a form of meditation, except one.
Cristina: Is labeled evil by the other.
Jack: Yes. In both cases, they label each other evil.
Cristina: Oh, okay. Yes. But it's pretty simple stuff. There's nothing really scary about witches. Like, I even.
Jack: Now my question is, is Baba Yaga a real witch that then devolves into using or evolves, depending how you want to look at it, into using fear and blood. So it's witch plus this add. It's a super witch.
Cristina: It's a super witch.
Jack: Yes. Baba Yaga is a super witch. It's a witch plus blood and fear.
Cristina: I think so. Because the type of magic it's doing is not like the real witches. It's more supernatural. It's more crazier. Like, things you do, you can't imagine really happening is happening.
Jack: Interesting. Like what?
Cristina: Like one time, she gave a girl a candle. A skull candle. No. Was it. No, it wasn't candle. It was a lantern. Whatever. And when the girl. Then she let the girl go home because she put her through a whole bunch of tests because her family wanted her dead. It was her mom and her stepsister. They're like, we hate you. Go away. Gave her to Baba Yaga to hopefully eat. She didn't eat her. She gave her test. She passed the test. She gave her this lantern, and then she said, when you go home, it'll grant you wishes. But when she went home, the lantern just set her house on fire, and her family died. And I'm sure the prince came and saved her. So it's okay?
Jack: Yes, okay. It's all fine.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: It turned out. Happy ending.
Cristina: Yeah. It's a happy ending.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: Baba Yang has saved the day with murder.
Jack: With murder, yeah. Interesting, interesting.
Cristina: But I guess the candle, the lantern is magical. Like, that doesn't normally happen.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: Doesn't teleport you back home. You know, real ones. But that's a different type of power.
Jack: Yeah, it's okay. It's fascinating because when we're talking about other kinds of magic, right, we're talking about prayer, we're talking about meditation, we're talking about whatever the case might be, the idea is if you put forward enough mental energy, you either comprehend the thing and warp your personal perspective on it, thus altering your reality, or somehow you're actively affecting the universe with this. The think of a person who creates a ritual to get somebody to fall in love with them.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Okay. Now, either you affected somebody else's psychology through this ritual, or through this ritual, you change how you think about it. And when that person next sees you, there's something different that's now attractive to them, but the change is in you. And they see it, and suddenly they're like, oh, you know, I'm actually into this. And you think you affected them, but you just affected you.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: The line between that is impossible to define.
Cristina: It is. It is that. That's a different one. And like, sometimes they also use clothing, the colors and makeup and stuff to be more attractive. Like, that might be helping you too. Yes.
Jack: Then the question is, Baba Yaga gives a person this lantern, they take the lantern home, and the lantern sets the house on fire. Now, Baba Yaga gave me the lantern, the lantern set the house on fire. Or are you under the impression that something's gonna happen, and then the same way you are sort of the reason the lantern fell, and you just warp the perspective on how that happened to say, well, the witch did it.
Cristina: Oh, so she didn't do it.
Jack: So maybe there's nothing supernatural about it. Maybe there's just a perspective warp. Well, I knew something was gonna happen, and then, you know, I tripped and knocked it down. But it's the witch's fault. They knew this would happen. Oh, now my family's dead. But the witch made it happen, which made it happen. But really the witch changed the perspective in your mind with what they understand how to do. They did it to themselves growing up. And as a young 20 something year old, doing a bunch of, quote, magic, unquote. Yes, Consistently warping their own perspective. Eventually they know, they noticed I'm not really affecting the outside. I'm affecting my inside, and that's allowing me to see it different. And now they know how to do it to other people. Just like Charles Manson or Darren Brown. Your using Perspective to brainwash the person who can't walk. And they're in a wheelchair now. They can get off of the wheelchair. Did you perform a miracle? Was it magic? Or did you brainwash them?
Cristina: Did you brainwash them?
Jack: You brainwash them? They did the thing, yes. The lantern falls, the house sets on fire. The witch did it.
Jack: Brainwashed.
Cristina: Well, what about when items and stories become other items? Like, that's magic then, right?
Jack: I don't know. How far can you do brainwashing? Can you make somebody cluck like a chicken? Can you make somebody see the knife in your hand be a gun?
Cristina: I don't know if you can do that. Oh, maybe. Yes. Right?
Jack: 100% brainwashing, like hypnosis is hypnosis. You can do self hypnosis to do magic. That's what meditation is. It's self hypnosis, Right?
Cristina: Yeah. What?
Jack: Yeah. So the question is, is real magic magic? And you take it far enough. Are you hypnotizing people, calling it magic and then putting them in a state where they are so scared.
Cristina: Yeah. That they believe it?
Jack: No. That they produce adrenaline and then you f****** kill them. You can take it. And you did it so easily because you already brainwashed them. You didn't need to actually do anything other than I hypnotize you. You feel crazy fear now. I kill you. Drink your blood. I got what I needed.
Cristina: That's weird. What? But one of the stories is with Baba's daughter, and she's the one that uses magic to get away from Baba.
Jack: Magic?
Cristina: How? By throwing things like a comb and then it turns into a mountain or what else? A brush that turns into a forest and a towel that turns into a lake. Which sounds like kind of ridiculous things. Is she hypnotizing Baba Yaga?
Jack: I think, yeah, maybe. This is a battle of hypnosis. It's two mentalists trying to warp it. Must look crazy. Not to the outside world. Anybody's watching them. He's just throwing s*** at normal, basic stupid s***. And this is one person chasing the other. But the experience those two individuals are having is f****** crazy. They're actively warping each other's point of view consistently. Maybe even the surrounding. Imagine the. The battle. Spoiler alert for the latest Spider man movie. Spider man. No Way Home. But when Spider man is fighting Dr. Strange and s*** is just warping and the city is caving in on itself and s*** is weird.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: They could just be doing that to each other, but nothing is really happening. It's all Just mind f******. Hard hypnosis, mind f****** to one another.
Cristina: That's Dr. Strange. Mind f******. Spider man, though.
Jack: Yes, he's the one using magic, but it's really happening.
Cristina: The city's not going crazy or anything. That's just in his magic. Magic.
Jack: Oh, is Darren Brown a magician or is Darren Brown a hypnotist? He's a hypnotist, but he says what he's doing is a trick. It's a magic trick. But he also says, I'm hypnotizing you. He interchangeably uses the terminology because he gets it. And probably at the beginning when he was watching people do things that look like real magic, it's like, what the f*** is happening? And a lot of magic is what? It's sleight of hand. It's. I gotta convince you of the thing.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: But the advanced stages, what do we say, the mentalists? Well, the best magicians are mentalist. Well, what does a mentalist do? He f****** hypnotizes you.
Cristina: Interesting. It is all a mind game. Like, even when you think of dark, the darkest magic of like killing someone, that person had to believe it, I think.
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: And then they had a heart attack. Probably because they were so scared for their lives. Like, they truly believed this horrible thing was happening to them. But it's more that they believed in the curse or whatever than you actually doing anything.
Jack: Yeah, this kind of checks out. The cat people didn't have magic that just turned out to be advanced technology. So we ruled out that. Our only real example of it, other than watching magicians and things. And we know that the s***** magicians are just doing a literal trick, but what about the people who do something that's unexplainable? Okay, well, they're doing really, really overpowered sleight of hand.
Cristina: They're tricking our minds, though.
Jack: Oh, they're tricking our minds. The guy who just removes the wash off your hand, now he can show us how he did it.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: On the side camera view. And be like, well, this is how I really got it. Off your hand. But in your point of view, until it's explained, you had a watch. Now that guy has your watch. And until it's explained, well, how the f*** did it happen? Yes, it's a magic trick.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And the same can go for it. Like, it could cause somebody to hallucinate. Hallucinations are a thing to happen in the mind. If you're crawling around inside somebody's mind and you know how to trigger a hallucination. Well, then why couldn't you make any object into any object. And while she's running away, here's a f****** comb. Turn it into a mountain. Because you know how to affect that.
Cristina: Yes, but there must be some drugs involved too, right, to do this hallucination part. I mean, witches have potions of.
Jack: Potions. Yeah. It could just be, again, throwing skilled enough witch, presumably. Because here's. I guess here's the other problem. Right. Are we talking alchemist, which is a type of, quote, magician. It's also affecting your mind and your body. Or are we talking a mentalist and a trickster? Now, somebody who has all of the above skills is a f****** savage. Because the best of witches do what? Potions, hex bags, brainwashing, all the tricks in the bag to alter your reality. And so the magic worked.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: And I can make you feel drowsy. Oh, how am I doing it? Well, I give you some drugs, obviously. Or have I've intoxified myself consistently so that my atmosphere has it. And you have to come to my house so that I can tell you the fortune. But I've drugged myself with the thing I'm pumping into my air regularly so I'm not affected by it. But when you come in, you immediately feel different. Oh, the energy in here is weird, but once you're in here long enough, that drug is just here to make you suggestible.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And now I can more easily crawl in your mind or convince you of weird things. I could say words that are gonna trigger visuals.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: But I'm used to it. I'm not gonna be toxified by it. I drugged myself with this every day just to be immune. You came here once every seven months because I told you, don't come here often because it's not gonna work. You gotta experience the solutions. I told you. And then you come back and you know, oh, wow. Every time I come in here is an interesting energy. It's the power of that which I'm feeling.
Cristina: Or the priest.
Jack: Or the priest. Well, the wizard, you mean.
Cristina: Oh, wizard. I'm thinking of the priest when they have that smoky thingy.
Jack: Oh, yeah, but that's totally different because you're talking witch from priest. Now, what they're doing is the same, but their settings are different. Yes, that's really what you talk about, because you do feel a weird thing. I mean, you go into the confessional, you already got some weird thing. What? This. What's the first thing that happens when you go into a confessional? He's got a chant for you.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: He either has Some repetitive thing, trick in his mind to trigger a trick in yours. Hey, my child. Okay, now you feel small already. Tell me what your sins are. Okay, you're guilty of something. Already he's prepping you to be suggestible to confessing something so he can get the juice out of you.
Cristina: Yes. And then he tells you to say something 10 times.
Jack: Yeah. Which is part of the conditioning, the mental brainwashing.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: And next time you come. Oh, I did the thing you told me to, Father.
Cristina: And it felt great.
Jack: And it felt great. So it's all the same abilities used in a million different ways.
Cristina: Yes. Okay. Okay. So none of this is real magic, but then there's this other guy who's like an evil witch version of Baba Yaga.
Jack: Wizard.
Cristina: Wizard. Yes. And. But he does this thing, though. Like, I'm sure all the other things you can say are illusions or whatever, but he does this unique thing where he hides his soul. He hides his soul in an egg, in a bird, in a fish, in a nest, or, you know, like some ridiculous, ridiculous thing. And once you find the thing, you could kill him, and that's how you kill him. But are you really killing him?
Jack: Has anybody done it?
Cristina: Yes. Who have to. Some random people. In his stories, the hero of the story has to go through the journey of finding the soul to crush the egg after, you know, this whole list of things. Because something will help him out. He'll help things out. And then the creatures will be like, okay, here is where he hides his soul. And then he'll have to find that animal within the animal within the animal that has the egg. Because it's really weird.
Jack: It's like a turducken.
Cristina: Yes, it's a turducken of his soul.
Jack: It's a. It's a turducken Easter hunt for a soul.
Cristina: Yes, that's exactly what's happening. But what's happening there because you crush the egg.
Jack: I don't know. This is. Now we're talking about something entirely different at this point. There's something entirely different because now we've established what magic is, what you're talking about doesn't even sound like magic anymore. There's no thing happening that's affecting anybody. There's no real condition that's affecting. Even if magic weren't in the person's mind, even if there was literally somebody affecting the external world, which at this point, we could say gods do that. So the difference between a mortal doing magic and a God doing magic is a God isn't doing magic a God has powers, usually from adrenochrome.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Right.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Now what you're describing is neither of those things. They're not creating a magic trick. They told you there's a thing in a place.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: There's nothing being affected. Your mind isn't being affected. The external world isn't being affected. So it's neither real nor fake magic. It's not brainwashing. There's no.
Cristina: Or maybe there is a little bit. Maybe the guy who hid it there, he's brain. He's been brainwashed to believe that that's where his soul is. And once he sees the egg being crushed, he dies because he truly believed that. That was like, who told him that?
Jack: Interesting point. So you're saying that the person whose soul is hidden in the object isn't the one performing the magic? There's a. The victim of who the magic was performed on.
Cristina: Yes. Or maybe he did believe. Like, maybe he did think he put his soul in an egg. Sure. But still, because he so believes it. Like the Dracula story, where it could be just a regular man in that movie of just like, are you really a vampire who can't stand the sun? Or are you just a guy who is.
Jack: Oh, I know which one you're talking about. Yeah. You believe the lie so much yourself.
Cristina: Yes. What if that's happening to him?
Jack: Then he wouldn't die when they crushed the egg.
Cristina: Huh?
Jack: He would. It would. The egg would be crushed. He would start freaking out, thinking he's dying at first, but then not actually die, and be like, what the f***?
Cristina: Huh? I guess. Right? But also, this guy can also transform into animals, which a lot of witches can do, too.
Jack: Do other people see him do this, or is he the only one who witnesses? I am in covert. I hide as a rat.
Cristina: No, I think they see him turn into birds, usually to kidnap people. And I think he turned the girl into a snake.
Jack: So he's f****** with people's heads left and right.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Altering. Because we've established. Okay, you can. You can change structures. Are you changing? This is what's interesting, though, because a lot of creatures on adrenochrome, a lot of gods, a lot of creatures that survive off of fear are shapeshifters. A lot of aliens are shapeshifters. The reptilians. Many shape shifters exist. But as we've just established, magic is really sleight of hand in mentalism and or alchemy. So there's three different branches to it. There's a complete trick. Hypnosis.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Or toxifying someone. Those are the three options that could lead to more or less the same result.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Now, out of those three pieces that lead to the same result, are any of them really creating a transformation? Or did you get drugged with the alchemist and you're literally hallucinating? You see things that aren't happening. You could pump this into an entire place.
Cristina: So he made them believe that he turned into a leper?
Jack: Yes. Or not hypnotized into thinking so.
Cristina: Okay. And the same thing with turning someone else into a snake.
Jack: Yes. You convince them they are. You can make somebody cloak like a chicken if you hypnotize them the right way.
Cristina: Yes. Yes, you can.
Jack: So you can make everybody else think she turned into a snake, and then you tell her you're a snake and she slithers and they see a snake.
Cristina: Weirdo. It could be all the same thing.
Jack: But then we come back to Baba Yaga. All these overpowered tricks of a mortal affecting a mortal, and then actual powers through adrenochrome and fear. Now, we know you gotta level up to a certain degree to use fear. That seems impractical because our only examples now are creatures from the shadow realm or gods.
Cristina: Mm
Jack: Is Baba Yaga a God?
Cristina: I don't know. Because there's. If there's more than one, then what does that mean?
Jack: I mean, there's more than one God.
Cristina: Yes, That's.
Jack: But is she like the demi est of demigods? Like the lowest tier God? She's the first step into this.
Cristina: Maybe.
Jack: It could be.
Cristina: There has to be more than one step of.
Jack: Yeah. Because we know there's some omniscient other thing. And we know off of when we're talking demigods where it becomes questionable as Santa Claus, is he omniscient or as close to omniscient as it gets before actually transcending to something that we have no language for?
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: So then does that mean Santa Claus is the top of the demis and Baba Yaga is bottom? That she's borderline just immortal?
Cristina: I think so. But where does fairies. Where is the fairies in this?
Jack: I don't know where fairies land. Because fairies can go into the shadow realm without needing fear or adrenochrome.
Cristina: Oh. Okay.
Jack: I don't know what the f*** a fairy is. I think we've established a rank for everything else that exists, including things in the shadow realm, and we still don't have a f****** clue what a fairy is.
Cristina: That's. I don't know.
Jack: Fairy's complicated.
Cristina: Because there's some other s***, but they can do whatever.
Jack: Yeah. There's creatures from the shadow realm. Sweet.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: The shadow realm has gods. Jehovah of Dark, maybe many others that we don't even know about.
Cristina: We know fairies used to be gods or called gods.
Jack: Yes, but they'll be s*** on by gods. On that being said, their abilities are interesting. It's powers. It's real powers.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: So they did probably just low tier demigods.
Cristina: Higher than Baba Yaga, but lower than others.
Jack: Lower than most other gods.
Cristina: Yeah. Yeah.
Jack: Which is how they move seamlessly, which would explain how Jehovah of Dark came through. Maybe gods can move seamlessly from one side to the other, but there's no benefit. Maybe there's no fear in the shadow realm. And most gods need that. So they stay over here where there is fear. But creatures from the shadow realm cross over, including Jehovah of Dark, that wanted more power, so he crossed over. But he didn't realize how much competition there was over here.
Cristina: But it's so weird that witches feel like they're just humans, but there are witches that do kill and transform. And they want fear, but they also want blood. It's like. It's so much like already the creatures from the shadow realm, but they're not.
Jack: Well, they're not. You're totally right. So interesting idea, right? Santa Claus. Fairies at the North Pole deal with Santa Claus. Not even fairies. There's some other. There's some creature at the North Pole that comes from the shadow realm. There's a. There's an exchange happening there that allows them to not be harmful, get everything they need to exist on this end. Santa Claus to benefit from whatever he has. A witch's whole thing. The same way that a magician. And I guess the tears are I guess just three tiers. And then the Baba Yagas of the world, tricksters, Magicians or tricksters, mentalists and alchemists.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And then Baba Yagas that are all three of these things put together, plus adrenochrome and s***, fear or whatever. Now, in all three of these cases, a alchemist must study alchemy. You have to understand chemistry, and you have to understand biology to affect biology with your chemistry. Thus, an alchemist.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: A mentalist has to learn hypnosis and psychology. A trickster has to learn perception and sleight of hand. It's homework. Yeah, it's all homework. So if you saw the f****** thing, let's say you saw Santa Claus or some of those things, some of the creatures they have, or you Were at a battlefield. Saw, wolf, saw. Change. You're like, I'm understanding. I'm taking notes. Then you're a scientist to some degree, too, and you study up on the thing that you saw in the natural world, and now you're trying to imitate it. What's more sciency than that?
Cristina: Yes. And that would be what Baba Yak.
Jack: Well, that's what every witch, every trickster, and every alchemist does. And to be Baba Yaga, you'd have to go through all of these things to be the best at all of it.
Cristina: So you probably already know about the other world or the shadow.
Jack: You've studied the living s*** out of it. You might not be able to cross over, but maybe that's your goal now.
Cristina: Maybe that is because we don't know what her goal is.
Jack: We know what her goal is.
Cristina: Fear and adrenochrome.
Jack: But also myths of witches suggest some witches have achieved immortality. Well, what makes you immortal if not adrenochrome?
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And even if you die with adrenal chrome, you just go to the shadow realm. And if you're overpowered in the shadow realm and know how to use fear, you could just come back to the mortal realm, to the physical realm. You've achieved immortality.
Cristina: Yes. And that's probably what Baba Yaga has done.
Jack: So Baba Yaga probably seems like a ghost, and there's narratives that make it seem like she just came out of thin air. But in reality, Baba Yaga has achieved the ability to move in and out of the shadow realm. Yes, probably by taking adrenochrome and then dying, probably willingly.
Cristina: Mm. Whoa. She didn't turn into anything special or anything.
Jack: Probably did Whatever distorted figure is the name that they got. They look a certain way. Okay, Maybe that's what happened to their body. Yes, but humans who take adrenochrome just become a vampire, which would also explain the continuous need of eating people. It's survival. You got to keep doing it, or you become a f****** zombie. Yes, but you already know how to trick, how to hypnotize, and how to toxify. And you drank blood and you f****** died and crossed over. So you're a djinn. Baba Yaga is a djinn who understands a lot about science, okay. And uses it effectively. Boom.
Cristina: So she is a magical creature.
Jack: No. Well, the magic that we understand.
Cristina: Yes. Yes. That's what I mean.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: The adrenochrome creature, I guess.
Jack: Yes. Everything goes back to it. God d*** it.
Cristina: Yeah, but it makes sense. It's homework.
Jack: Yeah, that's f****** crazy. What doesn't come back? Hey. Ever since we found out about Adrenochrome, everything. Everything is so annoying.
Cristina: Eventually we'll see Keanu Reeves character drinking.
Jack: Some blood and then crossover blow his own brains out.
Cristina: Yes. Like a bad guy's finally gonna kill him and then he's just gonna come back to life because he's got magic.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: Or not magic, quote unquote magic.
Jack: But that's kind of cool.
Cristina: So.
Jack: So there are three branches of quote, magic, unquote.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Because again, there are alchemists. And alchemists are particularly weird. Kind of magician make anything f****** happen.
Cristina: That's so crazy.
Jack: But the question is, is an alchemist more overpowered than. I guess. Yeah, I think an alchemist is the most overpowered because you don't need to know the individual, you just need to know biology and chemistry.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: Because you can drug anybody in, the same effects would take place.
Cristina: Oh.
Jack: That gives you a hundred percent assurance that what you're gonna try is gonna work. As opposed to hypnosis. You gotta be really f****** good at hypnosis. Cuz it could fail.
Cristina: It could definitely fail. Yeah.
Jack: And sleight of hand. You gotta be really good at sleight of hand because it could fail.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: But potions. Oh, that's the shortcut. On the flip side, you have to come in contact with the person. You gotta get them on the drug without them knowing.
Cristina: You gotta convince them it's medicine.
Jack: Yeah. Something like that. You gotta get it in their body somehow.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Whether you pump it into your own air. And now they're convinced different energy and all the switches telling me things. And I'm super convinced of it. Oh my God.
Cristina: Mm. That is weird.
Jack: Interesting. So like a fortune reader. That's both hypnosis and alchemy.
Cristina: And alchemy.
Jack: Yeah. That's the drugs and the hypnosis.
Cristina: Where's the drugs at?
Jack: Well, it's probably being pumped into the air. That's why you feel the energy and it starts affecting your body, thus making you more susceptible. So even if they're mediocre. Hypnotist.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: Well, you're already easy to convince.
Cristina: And which one's the priest?
Jack: The priest is a hypnotist.
Cristina: He's a hypnotist.
Jack: Well, it depends on the priest. Right. I would say a pastor is purely a hypnotist, but a priest is a hypnotist and probably an alchemist. Because a lot of the time they give you, what? Drink a little wine, eat a little bread.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: They're Convincing you to consume something and.
Cristina: You don't know what's in there.
Jack: You know what's in there. You're just believing that they're. That it is what they say it is.
Cristina: Yep. Or you're believing that it's really the body of Christ.
Jack: Yeah. Whatever narrative they tell you you ate some Christ, it's in you. You're gonna feel the power. Oh, I do. I feel it.
Cristina: Oh.
Jack: And also, you no longer have sadness and, oh, my God, the Jesus inside me. I no longer feel sad. No. You got drugs. Brought up your euphoria, bro. You're high.
Cristina: You're high. Yeah.
Jack: You're high. And so you're like. Yeah, I feel happier.
Jack: Well, yeah. He drugged you with happy. Your endorphins are flying off the wall.
Cristina: That's ridiculous. That could be. We don't know. I mean, we do know. That's what we do know.
Jack: That's literally what's happening.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: But I guess the whack lower tier version of this is sleight of hand. That's. You're not crawling inside of anybody's. You're not brainwashing people.
Cristina: No.
Jack: You're convincing the gaps in perception.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: I guess that would be the hardest to do.
Cristina: That's the hardest to do.
Jack: Hardest to do because it's the one with most ability to slip up.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: And also requires the least amount of homework, so it's obviously the easiest to do. It's the easiest and the hardest. Anybody can do it. And it's hard to do successfully.
Cristina: Okay, anyone can do it, but.
Jack: Yeah, anybody could do it. But it's hard to do, like. Well, you're probably gonna grind it out. Have to do a million different parts to convince somebody of one thing.
Cristina: You gotta practice it.
Jack: Yeah. Well, any of these things got. Yeah, but like hypnosis, if you just manage to get them into the trance, you win.
Cristina: Yes, that's it.
Jack: You win.
Cristina: But we've also seen it go wrong. Where they are who, whatever you wanted them to be. Like there was a girl who just was too. She. I think he wanted her to hate him and then she just.
Jack: Oh, I know what you're talking.
Cristina: She loved hate him. She. Like it was some other.
Jack: It's because she was too susceptible and she did her part and he sat her down. Then he went to the next one. That person was supposed to fall in love with him.
Cristina: Yes, that worked.
Jack: And then he went to the next one. That person was supposed to hate him. But the first person was too susceptible and heard all the instructions for the Second and third person. And they both loved them and hated him.
Cristina: So she got those. Oh, my.
Jack: Yeah. So the one who was in love with him would get close and she would get jealous because she's in love.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: But the one who hates him would be angry and she'd be like, yeah, f*** him.
Cristina: Okay. So it's more. Okay.
Jack: Susceptibility is what ruined that lady's mind.
Cristina: Okay. So it wasn't that. That wasn't that gone wrong or anything.
Jack: It wasn't that it went wrong is that it went too. Right. And she was too susceptible. So any instruction he gave to anybody else on that stage while she was tranced affected her.
Cristina: Wow. You gotta be careful with who you do that to.
Jack: Yep.
Cristina: Whoa. I didn't realize that. Okay.
Jack: Interesting, right?
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: That's a very unique scenario.
Cristina: Wow. And there's a witch that is in Italy that works a lot like Santa Claus. She's very similar to him. Her name is Befana. I think that's how you say her name.
Jack: What about her?
Cristina: And she does pretty much the same thing as him. She lives forever. Which kind of like him, she rides a broom instead of a sled. And she gives kids candy and she gives bad kids love. Cool. She's a pretty much Santa Claus, but a witch.
Jack: Do they expect her to do. To give them stuff?
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Oh, interesting.
Cristina: I think they also celebrate Santa. I don't know if it's just her, but I'm pretty sure they do both.
Jack: Wait, hold up, hold up. Let's pause right now and take a couple of steps back. Is she Santa's fangirl or Santa's gold digger?
Cristina: Actually, she has more to do with Jesus than she does with Santa.
Jack: Well, so does Santa. He capitalized on the Jesus game.
Cristina: Yes, but Jesus gave her this role. Yes.
Jack: Was St. Nick around Jesus time? He was shortly after. Right?
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: So, yeah, it was like the third century or some s*** when we looked at it. So then the question is, if Jesus, century one, well, century zero, before century one, gives this lady all these instructions and this is how you could best do it. One, how does Jesus know it's baby Jesus?
Cristina: It wasn't even like old Jesus. It was the baby. He was just born.
Jack: How did he give her these rules? He wasn't talking.
Cristina: Oh. I guess he was a child by the time she found him, because she had to find him first. And then he told her, okay, here's what you got to do.
Jack: So this kid was a genius. Figuring out how adrenochrome works and how Fear works in general because later in the future, when he becomes 30 years old, he goes on this weird tirade, telling people about it, and then they literally try to get rid of him. And that's when he's like, no, I'm gonna drink that adrenal girl this s***.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: And then vampire. Now I'm overpowered. I could. You can't even kill me. I'm faster, smarter, cooler than all of you.
Cristina: He already knew this when he was like, he.
Jack: So he gives the lady this role.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And sometime after. So she's immortal. She lives all the way to the third century now. She's 300 years old. Enter St. Nick. He sees it. He thinks. He thinks. Sees maybe creatures that she connects with. You know, fear. Oh, there's enough fear that people come through. And I'm like, what if. Because we don't know how he got in contact with the creatures in the first place, we know the deal is with the creatures. Allow a lot of things to happen simultaneously, and then I become overpowered. Now I could do it myself. Yes, okay, great. Fantastic. But he needed the creatures to begin with. Now, did he see her interacting with creatures? And it's like, guys, listen, just crazy story. What if we large scale this? We start small, we spread the propaganda. Everybody starts believing it don't hurt anybody. It needs to be vague, because fear. We need the fear. It's gonna be small doses, but we spread it more and more. More of you can come through. We can spread it farther, create more. I get stronger collectively.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And over time, we spread it across the world. I'm crazy powerful. Now, you guys could just relax. I'll let you feed off of my fear. You guys could do whatever you want, but now I'm immortal. But he got it from this f******.
Cristina: Lady who's only doing this one place.
Jack: And he. He Jehovah of lighted her.
Cristina: Yeah, maybe. Because he also took the whole cookies and milk thing. Well, she doesn't have milk. She has wine instead. But cookies and wine.
Jack: Because she was with Jesus and Jesus loves wine.
Cristina: Yeah, she's drinking Jesus blood.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: So. And yeah, I guess he saw her and he was like, yeah, this. This is a pretty good gig.
Jack: So he optimized it. He innovated that s***.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: It's like, let's. Let's upscale it global. I want to take this business everywhere.
Cristina: But she's considered a witch, which is weird because, like.
Jack: Well, that means that Santa Claus at some point was considered a wizard when he was St. Nick. What did they say? Oh, he was performing miracles.
Cristina: Oh, crap.
Jack: And what are miracles if not magic tricks?
Cristina: Oh, all saints are magical. Well, not magic. Not magic, because, you know, what did.
Jack: Darren Brown say when he performed this thing? Well, I'm gonna come up here and I'm going to perform miracles.
Cristina: Yes. And that's what saints do.
Jack: And that comes from gnosis and drugs and sleight of hand, Dear fish. Now it is Matt One fish. Now it's mad bread. How'd I do it? Well, you're f****** trickster, bro. You know how to do sleight of hand. You probably had a bunch of bread somewhere.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Or I hypnotized all of you. Now you just see a lot of bread. Well, you're all high as f*** and hallucinated. Mad bread. Because I said the word bread. Who cares? Yeah, you see, a lot of bread is the point. Thus a miracle.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: And she's performing miracles. Yeah, they say magical, she's witch, but. But she talked to Jesus and did a trick. Sounds like a miracle to me.
Cristina: Yes. So it's all the same thing.
Jack: The difference is we just called her a witch and Saint Nick a saint. But, like, what's the difference? Sexism.
Cristina: Yes. Pretty much, yeah.
Jack: What's the f****** difference if not sexism?
Cristina: I don't know.
Jack: That's it. That's all that happened. Sexism. He's a saint because he did it. No, she did the same thing. F****** burn her at the stake. She's a witch.
Cristina: Yes. Maybe there are a lot of female witches.
Jack: Well, let's go back to the Salem witch trials. How many men, like, were. Were burned alive at the Salem witch trials? Now that.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: How many priests for the Catholic Church that could perform miracles existed at that same f****** moment?
Cristina: Probably all of them.
Jack: How many people were just on the street, did a miracle. They happen to be a guy. And that's why we call it a miracle. They're like, wow, God gifted this to you. A woman directly next to him did exactly the same thing. Probably better. And they were like, f****** killer.
Cristina: Yes. Yes.
Jack: Hey, they both made that quarter, 10 quarters. Killer. Kill her. Kill her. Him. Give him a church. Kill her, though.
Cristina: Yes. Well, probably because he's saying this is through God while she's saying this is through nature.
Jack: Yeah, because nature. Evil.
Cristina: Nature. Yes, evil. Because the devil is somehow related to nature. So it's evil.
Jack: It's weird because God. Nature, like God made nature or whatever. But that just goes to show you that there's a weird disconnect that chances are if anything in the Bible is accurate. Well, Lucifer wanted you to know he didn't want to keep you ignorant. Lucifer wanted you to understand and to experience. And it's like, bro, did Lucifer just make nature? And like, Lucifer made people. Then Jehovah was like, meh, having it. But then, side story, was Lucifer the original. He wasn't Jehovah of Light. That's a different person. That was already on the side.
Cristina: No, but he was also of light.
Jack: Lucifer was of Light.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Unless Lucifer was Jehovah of Light. Okay, let's. Let's analyze this real quick. Lucifer, Jehovah of Light. Jehovah of Dark shows up, somehow traps Jehovah of Light. Right. And then lies to the people. But Jehovah of Light is still godlike. It just has enough ability to communicate with them to some degree. And it's like, look, I put this tree over here. He can't destroy that tree. This tree is too powerful. Is my original power. He's just got here. He doesn't have the power to take that tree down. The best he can tell you is don't f****** eat from it in that tree. I made that anticipating this f****** a******. Eat from that tree and you'll see him. You see what it really is. You'll see that he looks like he's from the shadow realm and he told you not to eat from it. Why? The tree of knowledge doesn't want you to have knowledge. What? And so you eat from the fruit and he's like, no, you did the wrong thing. I'm a punish you forever. But Jehovah of Light, The Lightbringer.
Cristina: The Lightbringer.
Jack: Lucifer.
Cristina: Lucifer, yes. Yeah.
Jack: Jehovah of Light. So the Jehovah that spread throughout the rest of the world, the New Testament Jehovah. Lucifer.
Cristina: Yeah, yeah.
Jack: It's s***.
Cristina: After he brought Jesus or he got Jesus into the light.
Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because Jehovah. Jehovah of dark created Jesus. He was trying to stay on this side.
Cristina: You think the Jehovah Dark.
Jack: I think Jehovah, yeah. Because you made Jesus in order to exist as a mortal.
Cristina: Light did. Because he was trapped. So he needed a way out and.
Jack: He just became mortal.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: But then Jehovah of Dark convinced a whole bunch of people kill him.
Cristina: Yes. Which is fine with Jesus, because now I can.
Jack: I turned myself into this. If you kill me, I'm free.
Cristina: Yes. Oh, s***.
Jack: So the argument is Jehovah, Wow. This is. This is gonna be. Oh, this is it. This. We f****** figured it out. Jehovah of Dark comes in. Jehovah of Light already over here. Jehovah Light made People. Or not really, but he's controlling these people.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: He has region with people, and he creates a tree. And he's like, all my knowledge, all my. I need one of you to replace me in the future.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: And that tree is gonna give you now. No. Almost no God over here can f*** with that tree. There's some evil tricks that can stop me. And then, boom. Jehovah of Dark shows up. Jehovah dark traps original Jehovah of Light.
Cristina: And hides the tree well.
Jack: He tells them, yeah, you don't f****** touch this tree. And he tries to look like Jehovah of Light. You don't touch this tree. I'm telling you, don't touch the street. But Jehovah of Light is powerful enough to get the word out. And they do.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Right now I'm a trap. Jehovah of Light forever. You f****** piece of s***. You somehow ratted me out. So I'm going over there, and these people, they're gonna die. They're no longer immortal. Right? Fantastic.
Cristina: He hides the tree and he hides the other people, who are probably related somehow.
Jack: Yes. So now these two. Okay. No more immortals. You. You two are gonna f****** die eventually.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: You can reproduce and you're gonna die, too. And I'm just figuring this out, Right? Maybe there was never immortality in the first place. Different discussion. Then, 2,000 years later, the idea occurs to Jehovah of Light from his prison. Well, I had enough energy to communicate with him in what seemed to be a sort of mortal body of sorts.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: What if I can do that same thing, but instead of a snake, I am a human?
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Now I gotta. I'm gonna put all my energy and just become that thing, all my exaggerated power. Put it in there. No, that can't be.
Cristina: It can't be.
Jack: Because unless he really just put his energy and literally became a mortal.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: But then it doesn't make sense, because Jesus wouldn't become a vampire. He couldn't be the first vampire. Because once he dies, he gets freed. Unless we're saying that Jehovah of Light has gone through this crazy transition, but then who is running the show now at this moment? At this moment. Because he would just be a Djinn. He be. He was originally a God. He gets trapped. He becomes immortal. In that time of being mortal, he becomes a vampire, dies, becomes a jinn, crosses over back. Okay, that doesn't work. So unless he never became a vampire, in which case, when he dies, the vessel now allows him out and he's Jehovah of Light on this side again. Boom. Kaji. Jehovah of dark. Now you're f*****. And traps him somewhere. Unless. Well, no. No, never mind.
Cristina: Fix this. I don't know.
Jack: No, it works. It works. Jehovah. Well, Jesus. We don't. We don't actually know. He died.
Cristina: No.
Jack: He goes to sleep. A vampire goes and recovers. He never died. No, he took adrenochrome. He had to. Oh, s***. He just went through the process again.
Cristina: He went through the process.
Jack: He was the first vampire.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: And then he kept powering up.
Cristina: Yeah. And started making portals.
Jack: Well, no, he used fear as well.
Cristina: Yeah. Yeah.
Jack: And boosted. Got more powerful and became godlike all over again. And then trapped. Jehovah of dark. Using probably magic. He probably. Again, Jehovah. No. I don't know if creatures from the shadow realm have psychology the way that beings from this side do. There's so many holes here. But we're onto something.
Cristina: We're onto something for sure. It's there. We got the pieces.
Jack: Yes. We got the parts. We're close.
Cristina: We're getting there.
Jack: We're touching it.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: We don't know exactly what.
Cristina: No. But we're there. We're almost there.
Jack: D***. So we found out what magic is, at least.
Cristina: Which is still not magic.
Jack: It's not magic. D***. So there's no such thing as magic. No, there's just power in science. And sometimes power is science.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: So. Yeah.
Cristina: So.
Jack: So magic might just not be real.
Cristina: No, it's just science. Yeah.
Jack: It's weird. Yeah. It's mostly science because we're just f****** with people's heads.
Cristina: Yep.
Jack: Or drugging them. Tricking perception. It's all science. Understanding how the universe works.
Cristina: And maybe adrenochrome.
Jack: Maybe adrenochrome. That's the closest thing to magic we have. And that's still just chemistry and biology.
Cristina: Yeah. Okay, so it's still in the science.
Jack: So, science.
Cristina: Wow.
Jack: D***. No such thing as magic.
Cristina: No.
Jack: Eventually we're gonna find it and be like, what?
Cristina: I don't know if we will.
Jack: Well, here's the thing. When you stop using adrenochrome and it doesn't enter your body, but you are gathering fear. That's magic. I don't know how that's being used. We have no explanation for that part. We know that's what's happening. We've had creatures tell us that's what's happening. We've studied it. We've seen the effects. We have infinite data on that factually being the case.
Cristina: But what part is magic, though? What is the fear?
Jack: How the is anything using fear? We know they do. Yes, but it's fear is that is the ability to get energy from that. What magic really is, it's not science. And it is real.
Cristina: I don't know. Because whatever, it's biological somehow are you getting it?
Jack: How are you getting the fear into? It's not entering your body, but you getting something from it, it's sustaining you. Some creatures literally survive off of it.
Cristina: Off of the fear.
Jack: Santa Claus isn't drinking blood. He optimized using fear.
Cristina: That's true.
Jack: But what the f*** does that mean? And we call him the most magical.
Cristina: So there is something going on. Okay. Yeah.
Jack: There's a question mark. And as long as there's a question mark, we'll say that's magic. All right, so we'll say magic is just the dark that we say in science, when we know something is factually science but can't explain it. Well, it's dark this, it's dark that. Well, in the natural world, when we can't explain whether it is science, it's magic until further notice.
Cristina: All right, so for now, it's magic. Yep.
Jack: Whatever feet, whatever fear or connection fear has to godliness and power.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: Without Matt, without science, that's magic.
Cristina: All right. We got something.
Jack: Yeah. So that's crazy. We found out what the h*** magic is. Fantastic. Didn't think that would happen ever. But we got there.
Cristina: We got there. We did it.
Jack: Yeah. On the flip side, we have conversations where we're talking about creatures that we thought was magic. We've talked about fairies, we've talked about cat people when we thought they were using magic when it was a giant question mark back in the day.
Cristina: Yes. And even werewolves transformation were sometimes very magical sounding.
Jack: Yes. Until we found out what that really was. Or how even werewolves came to be in narrative form, not the physical form.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: So you guys can actually find all of that? There's a plethora of. Before we found out what magic is like today, a bunch of theories on what it could have been and us explaining things away as science instead of magic. So you can find all that stuff on the official website, greatthoughts.info on Apple podcast, Spotify, or anywhere you get your podcasts.
Cristina: And you can reach us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and TikTok @justconvopod.
Jack: Yes. And remember to rate and review the show and always subscribe so you can can get those notifications the moment new episodes arrive.
Cristina: And let someone who might like this show know about It.
Jack: Yep. Tell somebody. We have disproven the last couple of pieces of magic as science. Accept whatever the f*** fear is. To gods.
Cristina: Yes. Awesome. This has been the Rambling podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Bye. What?
Jack: Because he lives 60 years and then live 60 years as a result? Ghost robot.
Cristina: I don't know. I just think different versions of you just pop up, taking your place, and we just don't even realize it. Like, I don't know which you I'm talking to.
Jack: No, no, listen, listen. I'm pretty sure that the first version of you was you. Yeah, but the first version of me was a ghost robot.
Cristina: What if that came after.
Jack: Well, we established that it happened way, way early. Then that ghost robot is who started talking the original s*** about the Illuminati. And then that ghost robot got killed with something again. Super mega killed, I guess, by the Illuminati who had clones of him. And then the first clone happens. The first clone became a bit crooked and also talked s***, but they hadn't done anything yet.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: Then that clone died with Dave and the other clone of you. So those three got taken out.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Then the third version, AKA second set of clones, showed up. That's genus. That's where the genocidal Jack came in. It was just destroying everything.
Cristina: Mm. Is that you?
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And taking out cockroach people.
Cristina: No.
Jack: The order here is f***** up. I don't know. It's really convoluted. We have to really get somebody to dig through this and find out what happened.
Cristina: Yeah, because there's also the one that's you traveling in time.
Jack: Yes. I'm pretty sure that's the same genocidal Jack. He killed the cat people and the.
Cristina: Cockroach people and the ghost robot. Like, how did it die? How do you kill a ghost robot? Doesn't it just turn into a ghost?
Jack: Well, no. The ghost robot was also the special me. No, but that was a clone of a clone. Wow. There's two special me's.
Cristina: There's no two special. There's just one special you.
Jack: If we find out, we gotta go back and, like, really, There's a lot of episodes to go through.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: We got to try to understand what's happened and how we got here to begin with.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: It's a lot. It's complicated.
Cristina: Good morning. Good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor, and published by Great Thoughts.info art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McAllister with social media managed by Amber Black.