Rambling 211: Unicorns
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Are unicorns real? Where do they come from? Can they help us figure out the Santa Clause Problem? The duo unpack Unicorns, their origins, what the truth about them might be and whether or not it would be useful to find one in order to use it to catch santa.
+Episode Details
Topics Discussed:
- Unicorns
- Indus Valley Civilization
- Bestiaries
- Powers
- Greek Civilization
- Middle Ages Europe
- The Evidence
- Magic Horn
- Unicorn Powder Merchant
- Adrenochrome
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+Transcript
Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.
Jack: Going live in 5, 4.
Cristina: What does live mean?
Jack: Welcome to the Ramblin Podcast. I'm your host, Jack.
Cristina: I'm. I'm your host, Christina.
Jack: And this is the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas, which we Every week.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: And last week we were talking about giving ideas power. When we give ideas too much power and when we extract. Extract power from ideas as well. Collapsing entire things. Religions and governments and currencies. All things that are powered on sort of the energy, the power, the true magic of imagination. Imagination.
Cristina: Imagination.
Jack: A little rainbow. SpongeBob. Who does that? Right? Imagination. And so a little rainbow shows over my head. I'm gonna put the effects. Nobody can see it but you. But it's gonna be great. I'm gonna do it in post. There's not even video. You're the only one who's gonna see it.
Cristina: Me?
Jack: Yeah, you're gonna see. I don't even know where you're gonna see it because it would require some sort of playback of the. I'll get an artist to draw this moment with the rainbow so everyone can see it. So everyone can see it. Yeah, now everybody could see it. The medium that is accessible to the public.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Anyways, I would. What the h*** was I even saying?
Cristina: That we use too much power to monopoly money.
Jack: Yeah, we do give power to monopoly money. It's crazy, because the power of imagination, man. It's crazy. We do. We. We give these ideas power, and it is absurd that we do that, but sometimes we think that things don't have power and that they are ideas and they are the other way around.
Cristina: What do you mean?
Jack: So in opposite of giving ideas power, sometimes there are things that we just think aren't even things. They're just ideas. We're like, no, that's. That's just imaginary. And this happens pretty often. A real common occurrence in which this happens is aliens. A lot of people just think aliens don't exist.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: They just objectively are like, no, that can't happen. Especially like most people who believe in religions.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Like the universe was made for us.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And so a lot of people do believe that there is no such thing as aliens. That's an imaginary idea to them. And that's. That's great. Whatever. But there's aliens.
Cristina: But there's aliens.
Jack: But there's aliens. We have many of them. So it's not that it's an imaginary idea, but this happens a lot, including things that we ourselves haven't really considered now, we've briefly glossed over, but we've never really deep doven into the mechanics of a unicorn.
Cristina: What?
Jack: Yeah, because there's a couple of ideas here, and I'm gonna show you where I began and where I ended with this thought. And it got really confusing and a bit scary at times.
Cristina: Because of the unicorn.
Jack: Because of the unicorn. And I became fascinated by the unicorn because. I don't know, it's an interesting, majestic creature that poses as something simple, is elusive the way like Bigfoot is.
Cristina: Yes. And are you saying people don't.
Jack: But people don't believe in the unicorn.
Cristina: But you're saying it's a thing?
Jack: Unicorn might be a thing.
Cristina: Why?
Jack: Well, the unicorn is. Well, before I even get to why it might be a thing, the idea behind this is that the unicorn itself possesses a certain kind of power and ability that it's. You know, it's like Bigfoot. It does disappear. It vanishes. It's elusive. We can't find it. People think that that's just a part of imagination. Because of that, there's no proof. The proof is gone. It ceases to exist. And I found that interesting that we do have this thing like Bigfoot that is there.
Cristina: Like, that's not a thing like Bigfoot, is it? I mean, maybe once upon a time. I don't even know.
Jack: I'm saying that it's elusive the way Bigfoot is.
Cristina: Like. Have there been stories of people seeing unicorns, though? Yes, but not recently.
Jack: Neither have there been stories of Bigfoot recently or aliens recently.
Cristina: I feel like more recent than unicorns, though.
Jack: I think unicorns right before Bigfoot.
Cristina: Really?
Jack: Yes, I think unicorn. I think bigfoot dominated the 20th century, like 1900s to the 2000s, but the unicorns was, like the 1800s. Maybe. Maybe a little earlier. Yeah, I don't think it was, like, way back. It was back there, but it lasted big, big, big. Still around this time, like, it ended towards the 18, you know, where they were seeing unicorns. I'm not sure where they were seeing unicorns per se, but I can give you some generalizations of to where unicorns were seen. But my interest in the unicorn came in that we've glossed over the unicorn before and haven't really been able to establish what it was. We. We joked about it being perhaps a horse.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: On adrenochrome. Because everything is on adrenochrome, and that just seems pretty obvious. Sometimes it's a small change, sometimes it's a big change.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Like, Steve still looks like a plain groundhog. Like, sometimes he's just got powers. Or sometimes you go from being a wolf and become some crazy Wetchards looking thing, you know, Werewolf.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Like drastically different things. So, yeah, it ranges. So I'm thinking it's that.
Cristina: That's what you think a unicorn is.
Jack: Yeah, I'm thinking the unicorn is that to begin with. Right.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: That's where my thought begins. I'm like, yeah. But then. Then I go through some stories which I'll tell you all about.
Cristina: How many involve blood?
Jack: Potentially one, but that's the one that matters.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And I don't actually, the potential is the best part here, because I don't think it is blood. And I think this is why we need to catch a unicorn.
Cristina: Of course. Okay.
Jack: Because I pose forward that the unicorn is using fear the way that Santa Claus is, but on an individual scale.
Cristina: What do you mean?
Jack: I am confident of it, but let's go down the rabbit hole.
Cristina: Okay. Honestly, I thought you were gonna say that it's. You think it's an alien?
Jack: I think it's an alien.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: I think it's some sort of Something figured it out. Something figured it out. I don't know what exactly it is. I just know it has powers. I guess the next step would be to find out if it is what we think. If it's doing what we think it's doing, then what is it?
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: That would be the next step.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Because it hasn't figured out how to do this on a scale like Santa Claus. But I'll show you as we move forward. So let's break apart the basic things we know about a unicorn. Right. A unicorn is usually thought of with a single long horn.
Cristina: Horn. Yeah. And it looks like a horse. And. Looks like a horse, I guess, too.
Jack: It's usually white.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: And it's very, very absorbently white.
Cristina: Is that important?
Jack: Well, no, that's how we picture it.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And it's also, again, like I said before, highly elusive, really difficult to see, and they say it's magical.
Cristina: I don't understand. Are there stories that prove that it's magical besides, like, it's elusive? Because that's the same thing with Bigfoot. Like, it's magical because I don't. I don't get it. Like, the whole. It's hard to find proof of equals. It's got to be magical. Like, I don't. I don't see the connection there, but yeah.
Jack: Because what has the unicorn done? Right.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: What has the unicorn done? That's magical.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: For anybody to say it's magical.
Cristina: Exactly like the Bigfoot. What has it done?
Jack: Exactly. What has. It's just elusive.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: They're saying. Well, they're chalking that off. The magic immediately.
Cristina: Yes, that's what it feels like. But is there anything else to it?
Jack: It's like disappearing, right? Oh, it disappeared. It must be magic.
Cristina: Yes. Not that it knows everything around itself and is familiar and where's the best hiding spots and whatever, but. Okay.
Jack: Is there any other detail we know about a unicorn? Is that all of it?
Cristina: That's all I know. That's all I know. I don't think there's anything strange about it.
Jack: Nothing strange.
Cristina: I don't think it's bigger than any horse or smaller than any horse or like, there's nothing special. If you think of Harry Potter, it has silvery blood, but I think that's just a Harry Potter thing.
Jack: Interesting. I like that. That's cool.
Cristina: But that's not real. Is there any stories like that that would be interesting if there are stories like that and Harry Potter was just basing it off of.
Jack: You think Harry Potter would have the intelligence to go do some research on some crap? Well, I think the wonder there was that it was generated from somebody's mind as opposed to like. A lot of that was original. I'm sure it took inspiration from research that was done, but a lot of that was just in, like, original stuff. Although I am not the biggest fan of the entire. Of the Harry Potter world, I do value the level, the quality at which it was crafted. It is impressive. Yes. It's incredibly deep. Harry Potter is its work of genius. I'm just. It's not my thing. I don't like fantasy.
Cristina: You're a hater.
Jack: Yeah, I'm essentially a hater because I don't like fantasy, but I understand the value of it. You go through it. It is some. It is complicated and deep. But as for the unicorn, which Harry Potter has probably one of my favorite iterations of the unicorn. It was like a goth unicorn. The weird dark situation it was involved in because it was still mystical and, like, hidden. Right. It was just Voldemort hunted one down and just drank its blood.
Cristina: We had to keep doing. He has to keep doing that.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: He survives off of the unicorn blood.
Jack: That's crazy, right? The edge of life.
Cristina: Well, very adrenochromey type.
Jack: It is, right? It totally is, bro. He was on adrenochrome. Get the h*** out of here. It was Adrenochrome 100. You can't tell me anything else. He was a wizard on adrenochrome.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: That's how he became that freaking nature.
Cristina: He changed and everything. Exactly.
Jack: He changed his nose and everything. His face altered. He warped. The way something on adrenochrome would.
Cristina: Exactly.
Jack: So early mentions of the unicorn because, you know, we gotta follow its trail, see where we could find one if it's so elusive. And boy, is it elusive. Aliens, way less elusive. Almost every civilization has some mention of aliens. Usually in the same manner. Saucers and like flying things and things coming from the sky. The same crap over and over and over.
Cristina: It's all UFOs. Yeah, that's the most common.
Jack: Always a hundred percent of it. But not in this case.
Cristina: What do you mean?
Jack: There are so few mentions of the unicorn it is absurd.
Cristina: Exactly.
Jack: Like Jesus, kind of. It's like you got the Bible and then that's it.
Cristina: Yeah. So.
Jack: Well, and see, he's mentioned in the Quran. That's a lie. So he's mentioned the Bible in the Quran. It's like, okay, this is like, way less probable. There's nothing proving this thing is out.
Cristina: Here, the unicorn or Jesus either.
Jack: But there is the. In this valley civilization. Right. This is about 3,000 years before Christ. And they had mentioned in their scripture and in their writing a unicorn. And they mentioned it as a single centered curved horn that went forward and then up at the end. So it wiggled its way, which I've seen iterations of, and I didn't know where that came from. I've seen three different ones. It's the pointy spike, the spirally one, then the wiggly one. Seen all three. And I never really realized I was seeing all three until somebody made a distinction.
Cristina: Were you seeing them on different animals or you were seeing them?
Jack: No, all of them on unicorns, but different iterations of unicorns.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And so I thought that was interesting that that distinction was made. And then I remembered, yes, I've seen spiral horns and whatever in different, like, pictures and, you know, shows or movies or paintings or whatever. Except their description of this creature was that it was cow shaped.
Cristina: Cow shaped?
Jack: It was cow shaped.
Cristina: So it was a big boy.
Jack: And it was thought of as a symbol of power. They thought it was a powerful thing because of its size.
Cristina: I guess it's still a unicorn.
Jack: Nah, still a unicorn.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: What's interesting about this is they. Although not many places mentioned that they mentioned it often.
Cristina: They mentioned it, mentioned it often to.
Jack: The point that they would put this creature like it was part of their Normal ecosystem. They would place it on their crests, they would put it on there. It was like their, you know, their national creature, the unicorn.
Cristina: It could be just a mascot, have to be real things.
Jack: Yeah, but it was like the people's mascot essentially.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And they, they, you know, they wrote about it all the time, but could be, you know, like that episode of Star Trek. Their entire world revolved around the idea of a dragon. And they just talked about the dragon consistently like, okay, yeah, it makes sense.
Cristina: But there's no dragon.
Jack: Well, there's no dragon. Yeah, it doesn't need to be a dragon. This is a story. But they based off on story. So I'm thinking the unicorn could be that case in this situation that they kind of based so much of their society on the unicorn.
Cristina: Did they have cows though? Like. Yeah, it's described as a cow, but.
Jack: No, they didn't describe it as a cow. They said it was shaped like a cow. But they were fully aware of what a cow was.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And they were fully aware of what a horse was.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: This is like a cow shaped cow shaped thing with one single horn. Now what's interesting here is in trying to debunk this, my assumption would be the only cow shaped horned creature would be a rhinoceros. Seems powerful. It's bulky, it's a big boy and it's muscular. It looks like a tank and it's thick skinned. So if they're talking about something that's a symbol for power, I couldn't think of something that I think of more powerful.
Cristina: Where was this place at? Do you know?
Jack: I have no idea where this location.
Cristina: Is because yeah, rhino makes sense.
Jack: Rhinoceros does make sense.
Cristina: All right. I just looked it up. It says that it's in the northwestern regions of South Asia, which is Pakistan and northwest India and eastern Pakistan. I don't know if that's helpful. Here's a picture of a map of it.
Jack: But none of that's the Middle East.
Cristina: Yeah, none of it looks familiar. Yeah, I guess that's Asia. That's the Middle East. Right. Does that make sense?
Jack: No, the Middle east is in Asia. So that's just a corner of is there further away map, a further way map?
Cristina: This is like the only map I find and then it just shows.
Jack: Okay, so then, yeah, it's basically in the Middle East. If it's around Pakistan and India and that kind of region. So that's where the Indus Valley civilization was. And they, they thought of it as.
Cristina: A cow with a horn, there's gotta be rhinos there? No, I don't know.
Jack: There aren't any rhinos there. That's what's weird.
Cristina: If we look at where rhinos are.
Jack: Found, I'm sure it's gonna tell us. Africa.
Cristina: You think that's the only place in the world that has rhinos?
Jack: I. Yes, is my bet. I'm like, 95% positive.
Cristina: Okay. Like, two of them, the species are in Africa, and three are in south and Southeast Asia.
Jack: Holy crap.
Jack: So there are rhinos over there?
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: So at least close to there. Close enough because that's the Middle East. It's not the Southeast. Yeah, but it's close.
Cristina: So, yeah. It would have been probably rarely seen, but that's why it was so popular, because they never see it.
Jack: Door somewhere that they've never been to had a creature that had a horn and was big and bulky and elusive because they never seen it.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: And the civilization was perhaps, probably based on the stories of one group who thought that it was common just over the hill. And they were like, what interesting creature? This? That's just over our hill. He's our creature too. We're all the same people. And he's just over the hill, and we've never seen him. He's that elusive.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Hangs out with only the people that are elusive like him over there now.
Cristina: So maybe nothing magical about that.
Jack: Maybe nothing magical about that. And that. That might hold some water to some degree. Except when you consider some of the greatest record keepers of the world, which are two. The Jews are amazing record keepers. They are some of the originators of record keepers. And the Greeks are the other really good record keepers. After they finally began record keeping, obviously, because a lot of the crap that they had was just hearsay. You know, I got a story. I told you the story. You told him the story. They told them the story. And it's like we got a million versions of the same story. Which version do we write down?
Cristina: And are these about unicorns, though?
Jack: Well, they don't actually have. This is what's interesting about the Greeks particularly. They don't have a single mention of a unicorn in their mythology, what I would expect.
Cristina: Oh, yeah.
Jack: This is where it gets really incredibly weird. The only place that they have unicorns mentioned are in their natural history books. And in their history books. So the natural history books, historians record them, and in just, like, biographies and stuff, people reporting to have seen unicorns.
Cristina: So there are mentions of it.
Jack: There are mentions only of unicorns in real world instances. There are no mythological unicorns in Weird.
Cristina: Yes, weird. They thought of unicorns as actual creatures, not magical creatures.
Jack: Yes, but this. It's not even the magical creatures. They thought of it as a real creature that existed somewhere. Yeah, with them.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: Screw the magic. They. They just casually thought this was an everyday thing. Yes, but this is the second civilization that we've come across now. The only people who mention them. Mention them as what? As always present.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: Second time. These people straight up just had them in history books.
Cristina: But they look like horses, though.
Jack: Well, they believed that they were about that. Like the first. The horn in the middle, it was freaking huge. It was 28 inches.
Cristina: What?
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: How is it holding that? It's not heavy.
Jack: It could be like bird. Bird bone type. Now known as very jumpy and skittish. That's also why it's elusive, because the moment it sees you, it disappears somewhere. Just runs or magically vanishes or whatever people want to say happened as a result. It's also very agile.
Cristina: This creature sounds cool, but.
Jack: Okay, well, here's the coolest part. Usually it's described as white, but there are also mentions of it being red and black.
Cristina: That does look awesome. Oh, my gosh. I want a red speeding, thin horn creature.
Jack: But it is a horse.
Cristina: It is a horse for sure.
Jack: Yes. It's a magical.
Cristina: For some reason, I was hoping they were foxes, I guess.
Jack: Not magical. They thought of it as a variant of a horse.
Cristina: Of a horse.
Jack: Now here's where it gets tricky. They thought that these things existed in India, and only the historians, good record keepers that went to India, came back saying that these were there, that these were there. Now they know what horses are, and they said it's a horse. But there are rhinoceroses in India, apparently.
Cristina: But that doesn't describe the creatures they described.
Jack: They think it's an. It's a horse. Yeah, the Greeks.
Cristina: But they didn't describe it as a bulky horse, did they?
Jack: No, they did not. It was just. It was definitely just an elegant horse with a horn.
Cristina: That's weird.
Jack: Yes. And they. They knew what a horse was.
Cristina: Was it a camel?
Jack: A camel. Interesting. That's some middle ground.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Between a horse and a cow, if you want, like a bulkier horse.
Cristina: Skittish, you said?
Jack: No, skittish. Gnome. Camels are like paste.
Cristina: Oh.
Jack: The opposite of skittish.
Cristina: Okay, describe this creature again.
Jack: Okay. A single 28 inch horn in the center. Jumpy and skittish. Yeah, that's why it's also very elusive. It's agile for the same reason. And it has red, black or white fur. And it is a horse.
Cristina: It's gotta be some type of deer. Were they familiar with deers, though? Okay, if we thought of it, not like a deer from here, but like those other creatures that look very similar.
Jack: To deer or something like that.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Oh. I mean, a gazelle has two horns, but I know what you're thinking about those other ones.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: That one of them, I think, does in fact have a single horn. The problem is they're talking horse. The creature that I think you're picturing is significantly smaller, like tiny. It's like baby deer size.
Cristina: Then maybe they were decorating their horses.
Jack: Okay, interesting. Different angle. We know that. Even in which is. No, it couldn't be, because they would know, because Greek themselves used to strap things to their horses.
Cristina: That's true.
Jack: So they would know. They would know if it's. They know what a horse looks like.
Cristina: I don't understand. Because, like, if we look at the history, though, of the record of the actual place that they were visiting, what was it? India.
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: Do they have any unicorn stories?
Jack: The Indians?
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Well, no, that. Not that. Well, we do know that dimensions from the Indus Valley civilization is in the Middle east and India's in the Middle East.
Cristina: But does India itself has any stories?
Jack: I don't.
Cristina: This is so natural. Why wouldn't they have the most stories if everyone's pointing there and saying they have unicorns? Wouldn't they have unicorn stories?
Jack: Well, okay, yes. This is what's weird about that. Right. Because of all the locations that do mention unicorns and everybody seems to see it around India, but no, India doesn't have any sort of consistent anything with unicorns. No mention of the unicorn everybody else is seeing there.
Cristina: So they have to have something there that people aren't familiar with. I feel like that's gotta be the solution. Like they've got animals that people just aren't familiar with and they're describing in very strange ways the unicorn.
Jack: They're describing it as a unicorn over. Yeah, it's always the same. Or maybe they're not using the word unicorn, but the description is what we all call the unicorn. Yeah, but that's the thing. We're. Now we're talking that these people are all speaking different languages.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: We're using the word unicorn. We're saying this very same description is what they're all saying they're seeing.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And if it fits, you know, more than half of it, let's say. Okay, we're. They're talking about what we would call a unicorn.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And that's how we're defining this ultimately.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: Because they're all coming back and saying, there's a one horned white thing over there that's just there and it's weird and impossible to catch and see. It's just there and then it's not there.
Cristina: Then it's not.
Jack: They're all mentioning the same thing.
Cristina: Interesting.
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: Now it has to be a real thing, not a real thing, but it's not. It's not a unicorn.
Jack: Well, for a brief period in the Middle Ages in Europe, popping up here and there, you know, sometimes in Spain, sometimes in England, sometimes in France, sometimes in Germany. Germany, you know, it would pop up everywhere. There would be depictions in bestiaries where they show animals of different sorts from regions, you know, real and mythological, sometimes mixed together. And they would show the unicorn. Many of them.
Cristina: Were they all visiting India?
Jack: Well, I'm not entirely sure, but I think they were used actually. I have no idea where. I just know they were showing animals that they have seen or recorded or heard of. Just beast series to gather information. And they were depicted in many beast series throughout all of Europe. Consistently. It wasn't one guy's thing. It was like all over the place. Anybody who had one, for whatever reason, seemed to have a unicorn in there.
Cristina: Weird.
Jack: Weird.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And here, though, split down the middle, it was thought of about as much of a goat as it was a horse.
Cristina: I don't understand. So sometimes it was depicted as a goat with a horn and sometimes it.
Jack: Was a horse with a horn. But sometimes it was the middle ground of whatever that would look like with a horn.
Cristina: Middle of a goat and a horse.
Jack: What?
Cristina: What does that mean? What?
Jack: But we start to get into where I immediately went. Huh? I tried to confirm this and you can find a crap ton of these online, really old ones. And you can see the pages and their descriptions and translations to English from what's being said. And without fail, 100% of the time from completely different books from across all of Europe, mentioned in different contexts, but landing at the same idea. Virgins can easily tame the unicorn. Now, I understand fully somebody heard about it, told somebody. But for the first couple of books that seem to have all been begun around the same period of time, there was no way that they simultaneously thought of the same thing at the same time, because it must have been like a five year gap and we're talking the Middle Ages. So it's like, whoa, dude. How?
Cristina: What? That they're all saying virgins contain.
Jack: Yes, they're all talking about unicorns and they're all saying. So they all talked to somebody who mentioned the unicorn in the same exact description and managed to publish a book that also had the same information about a virgin. They all spoke to the same guy.
Cristina: That happened to be a version. I don't know.
Jack: Unless there's a school for people who make bestiaries, and then they get taught the basics. And unicorn happens to be one of the basics.
Cristina: Yeah. He's like. Then that means, like, they all were experimenting, and we're like, okay, let's bring it. Like, how do they end up with the version? How many people did they test out? Like, okay, let's try to get that person to train the unicorn. What is it? Not train it, to tame it. Tame it. Yeah. And no one could do it except for this virgin horse trainer.
Jack: Weird, right? And no, it's not even a tamer. It's just because they're a virgin for whatever reason. Specifically female. A female version, for whatever reason. The unicorn is just submissive.
Cristina: It makes no sense, though.
Jack: Makes no sense. The other mention that I found that fits this same exact description is actually for dragons from the same Europeans in the Middle Ages, mainly from England, which mentioned virgins. Virgins can steal the treasure that a dragon is guarding because the dragon will. I guess it's not stealing. The dragon will just move out of its way. It's. It's collected for the virgin who will one day come and take it.
Cristina: Okay, are these people just fantasizing about versions and how amazing version being a version is?
Jack: I don't know. Because where I went. Again, is that although versions conceal the gold, they always just remained with the dragon.
Cristina: What? That's how those stories end.
Jack: Well, taming the unicorn means what, now? You're always with the unicorn? That's your ride or something? So now they've got proximity to a virgin in both instances. And in both instances, hard to reach and quite majestic. Overpowered. Some things.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: That are keeping a virgin nearby.
Cristina: For what?
Jack: Okay, now, if we look at how gods use virgins, right? Sacrifice for blood. Pure blood. The most fear, the most innocent.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Oh, yes. All the blood and fear I need in one strong dose.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: Jehovah's old solution to the problem, as you know.
Cristina: Yes, yes. But why do they. These creatures need it?
Jack: They're not eating these versions, doing anything to these versions. Is this an emergency in case some s*** goes down? They would then, you know, keep the battery around in case I'm running out of electricity, and then, you know, take the battery when I need it. Is that the case is it a. As long as they're around me and they think I'm protecting them, they're gonna fear for themselves, but they're gonna fear for me. And they'll always be to the edge. I always make sure they get to the edge of fear. So I keep the battery close and keep her scared. So somebody's going to hurt her. Yeah, or I'm going to hurt her or something. With the unicorn, you're always in danger, but if you trust me, you'll always be safe. But you're always going to be that close to danger, but you're never going to be hurt, so you're always going to be scared. That adrenaline rush, the good fear.
Cristina: So makes no sense how the version is the key. Is it a woman version for the dragons as well?
Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. And also, here's what's weird about this. In both instances, if you're. If you adjust to anything, you're no longer gonna be scared of it because it's your normal. Once something's your norm, it's not. That's the juggle that gods are making with fear. You have to keep it fresh. If it's not fresh, it's not entertaining. We get bored easy. You can't scare us with the same s***. You have to crash the towers, but you also have to threaten us with the bombs. You can't. Not just. You can't just keep hitting towers. We'll be like, it's normal for towers to get hit.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: You know, like, you can't do the same trick over and over and over and over. We'll get bored. Right now, people in Ukraine are like, whatever, dude. They're now beating Russia because they got over the fact that Russians had more power. Now they got so bored, they just walked into the streets and started disarming people. And they're winning. Like, just got bored and stopped being scared. Now. Now what are you going to do? You. You killed the fear in them. Now you're screwed. You can't win. They're not scared anymore.
Cristina: So what do these guys do with these versions?
Jack: I mean, what are they doing? I have no idea. I never found the solution for that. Why are. Well, at least in these stories, I didn't find a solution. I don't know why. I don't know what the point is. It didn't. There wasn't any further explanation. And I tried to find it. It was nothing. It's like you guys just all talked about the same crap in the same way, and it didn't make like you didn't link back to anything. Was this an idea you all had? There's a fascination with virgins.
Cristina: Yeah, for sure.
Jack: I guess always.
Cristina: Always.
Jack: I guess always.
Cristina: Always.
Jack: D***. That's what pedophilia is, isn't it? D***. Is that. I mean when you think about whatever they were throwing like a 10 year old at those things and it was like the grown men, don't get me wrong, the grown men were like 15 year olds who were gonna die like the next week of old age or some s***, you know. But they were still like significantly older than the like 10 year old.
Cristina: Yes. During the 10 year old. And a dragon or the unicorn and who knows how many other mythical creatures that they were like okay, there's a zombie. Let's throw the version and see what happens.
Jack: This is crazy, bro. Basically 1800s, follow me on the street. 1800s. God is angry at us. We're in a drought. Go to the elder, he's been around the longest. He's like 35 years old. Like 40. We're going to be generous and say he's 45 years old. The elder is like 45 years old. They die pretty young. There's nothing, there's no medicine. You just drop. And anytime you catch anything, you're dead.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Anybody who made it any age. Amazing.
Cristina: Got the code. You're dead.
Jack: Yes. You're screwed. So go to the elder. He's like 45 years old. The longest living person there is. Always the elder. He knows the most. Hey elder, we need to solve the rain problem. There's a drought and elder's like this 45 year old. Throw a virgin in the volcano. Now in his eyes, a virgin. The establishment of what a woman is. Hasn't happened yet, right? What year is it? Like 11. 1100s.
Cristina: You said 1800s.
Jack: No, that was exactly. Okay, that was exaggerated. Like the 1800, like the 1100s.
Cristina: Right way back there.
Jack: So we can throw her into the volcano.
Cristina: This 10 year old girl.
Jack: 10 year old girl. Some 45 year old guy is like let's throw her in the volcano because d***, this is the 1800s. This is hard. This is harsh. Can you imagine how savage these 1800s are? This is. This is like a week ago. This is scary, bro. This is too short ago.
Cristina: No, they would just set her on fire, dude.
Jack: Yeah. Oh, fair enough. It was still the 1700s, wasn't it?
Cristina: 17.
Jack: 1700S, yeah. Okay, that was a little further. It's man, it was still too close.
Cristina: Are sure the Salem witch trial things, that was 1700s. 1700s, I'm pretty sure. Late 17.
Jack: I mean, let's check that. Let's confirm.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Because late 1700s, I mean, I'm thinking like 1777, 1692-3. Yeah, that checks out. I feel like late 17 might have been too. Too soon still. Yeah. 16. Latest 1600s. Yeah, that checks out. That makes sense. Early 17.
Cristina: There's another one though, in the 1878. Does that count?
Jack: Witch trials.
Cristina: A witch trial.
Jack: Oh, a witch trial. I mean, yeah, as laws say, like way ancient in certain places and they take a while to catch up.
Cristina: Burning people.
Jack: Well now that is incredibly weird that they can only be tamed by a virgin. But what's even stranger is that throughout all of. I guess, I guess it's not as weird, but that it's a symbol for Christ. But it kind of makes sense considering that like Old Testament, God was totally into sacrifices.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: He loved virgins and children.
Cristina: Jesus was a virgin. Is he a virgin? I don't know.
Jack: Jesus wasn't a virgin.
Cristina: He wasn't?
Jack: No. But no, he was a symbol for Christ. And the unicorn doesn't have to be a virgin. What do you mean? If the unicorn is a symbol for the unicorn, isn't the virgin here?
Cristina: No, I'm saying is the Christ the virgin?
Jack: No, the unicorn symbolizes Christ. Christ must like virgins.
Cristina: Oh, okay.
Jack: Which is weird because I'm sure he was banging Magdalene. Like she was far from like. Like, let's be real. Jesus had no game because the one chick he was down with or he was very sexually open minded because the one chick he was down with was known as like the. The block w****. Which is also a lie. Anyway, so whatever. That totally wasn't even mentioned in the Bible like that. That's an exaggeration from people.
Cristina: Mm. He was hanging out with dudes all day. What are you talking about?
Jack: Wear that packages for days. Sausage fests every day, all day, nothing more.
Cristina: He loved that braid.
Jack: Sus mega sus. Mega sus mega sus. Now this Christ unicorn. Nah, not Christ unicorn, but. So the unicorns horn is talked about in these mentions. These three big mentions. Talk about a couple of things that kind of pop up here and there in similar ways. So the unicorn is the source of the magic? The unicorn horn. The horn.
Cristina: They mention magic though.
Jack: Yes. They literally, in some manner, shape or form, mention that whatever makes them unique exists within. In their horn.
Cristina: Right.
Jack: Now I'm using the term magic, but that was only mentioned specifically for the people in the middle. The Middle ages that they mentioned that it was in Fact, a magical creature.
Cristina: Why did they give examples? Besides attracting virgins or whatever. Okay.
Jack: But the magic existed in its. In its horn. And it was also made of a material that they called alicorn.
Cristina: So out of something that it's rare.
Jack: It's like a. An elephant's tusk.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And if extracted, a magical tool could be crafted from it. Maybe a wand didn't describe this tool, anything. It's up to your imagination because it's magical. It's only an example of like a wand.
Cristina: But that's your example or their example.
Jack: That's they know anything you can think of. They mention things like wands, but it's like anything you can think of. And any purpose tool. Now you have a magic version of it.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: It could also be used for medicine, said to be able to heal anything. And it could be used to create potions.
Cristina: So much of witchy stuff.
Jack: Yes. And when. Now, interesting, interesting point here. With these potions, specifically an alicorn potion, the drinker of the potion would themselves get powers or abilities.
Cristina: What are these? Do they have examples of these powers or abilities? I have to know. What is this magic? They're just saying magic here and there. What?
Jack: Enter the merchant.
Jack: There was a merchant claiming he had obtained some unicorn powder. That is ground alicorn.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: And he was reported seeing between the years of 1739 and 1741.
Cristina: Throughout those years, yes. Okay.
Jack: And in the countries of Albania, Bulgaria and Greece.
Cristina: Are those close to each other? Okay.
Jack: Yes, they are.
Cristina: Now what makes this strange?
Jack: Gonna get there.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Shop owner Atlas Demos in Greece noted that this nameless merchant with a hood and a glass bottle offered unicorn powder, bought a bowl shortly after offering the powder and left. Interesting guy, pops up, just offers powder, offers unicorn powder. Hooded dude shows up, offers thing, dips. Second guy, Toshkos Toyanova of Bulgaria, he took note of a hooded merchant with a Greek accent. Now it got weird.
Cristina: Why?
Jack: Because it's a Greek guy with a Greek accent. Was a very specific node the Bulgarian mentioned. He said that a hooded merchant with a Greek accent. And the Greeks already believe that the unicorn is real.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: And this guy shows up with a Greek accent and claims to have unicorn. Unicorn powder.
Jack: Weird. But. And he offered him unicorn powder at the town square. He did not buy. It was just offered to him. Finally, Noel Thanasi, the Albanian ship captain.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Who kept extensive notes of what happened on the ship was one of his ways to entertain himself. So he had many, many, many, many records. And because he was a ship captain, he Was usually on a ship with people for hours, a long time. So he got time to see things.
Cristina: So he saw this merchant.
Jack: The Albanian ship captain wrote in his log about a hooded merchant on board.
Cristina: Also with a Greek accent.
Jack: Actually, that's the first thing. Yeah. Who also has a Greek accent. So the merchant, Greek accent. Hood offers unicorn powder.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: On the cruise, on the ship on the right.
Cristina: Wherever they're going, how many people buy it?
Jack: Claims an ill woman on board. This is him on his notes.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: He claims an ill woman on board the ship drank tea with a bit of the powder sprinkled. Within moments, the woman was, well, okay. This is a captain who sees. He's an experienced guy. He's kept notes. He has many notes. He's been at this for a while. This guy must be old and he's seen all kinds of manners. This is the first time that he's like, what the h***? On his own boat, this guy shows up.
Cristina: The only thing that happens on the.
Jack: Boat, this guy shows up. And out of nowhere he gives this woman a thing. And for the first time in his life, he sees something. He's seen so many strangers come through. It's a shame ship. He's moving people back and forth. All kinds of weird wanderers come through. This is the first time he's like, holy crap, what the h*** am I looking at? The woman gets a tea doom and instantaneously gets better. This guy's like, what? It's like, are you serious? And so he makes a note of this guy. What's up with the Greek merchant? What? What's this? Can't be real, right? He's kidding me. Other ship passengers, shortly after buy and consume the powder a series of different ways. They throw it in their drinks, they throw it in their meals, and they sort of just take part thanking the guy and for several days, just kind of hanging out with the merchant or whatever. The merchant seems real cryptic, real like he's detached according to this guy's. Because he's writing paragraphs and s***, sometimes knowing to go through it. But he's just. He's also rambling a lot of crap that's like unrelated. But he always circles back to how interesting this merchant was. Okay, now, other than the lady for a while, it all seems pretty normal. And he's like, okay, there must have.
Cristina: Been a trick he did there until something.
Jack: With exception for a man. Now, this man claims to had a walking stick his entire life, and he drank the powder and finished the rest of the trip without the walking stick. The man it's important to say that the man only said he showed up with a walking stick. He didn't say he drank the powder. Very important. This is where these notes fall apart. He took note of the man with the walking stick. Yes, that's the right way this goes. He took note of the man with the walking stick. He thinks the man drank the powder because the man finished without the walking stick. But that's the only person he doesn't know whether or not he drank the powder.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Now, all the people he knows for a fact drank the powder, had no reaction. But the man with the walking stick, who he doesn't know drank the powder, he's assuming drank the powder only because.
Cristina: Of the first lady that got better.
Jack: Because the first lady that got better. His assumption is it's only working on people with severe problems and that maybe this does in fact work.
Cristina: But there's no proof of that.
Jack: But there's no proof of that.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: It's just mentioned in his notes. Now, it's the same guy. We know the guy is real. The guy popped up in different places. It's the same Greek merchant.
Cristina: But also, how's he getting around? Did he do anything weird like he sold the guy the thing, but that was the end of that story.
Jack: Doesn't even say he bought it.
Cristina: Oh, I thought he bought it. No, it was just the second one didn't buy it. But the first one bought it.
Jack: No, he offered the powder and left.
Cristina: Oh, okay. Okay. That's weird.
Jack: I mean, notes weren't great back then. We're talking, like, shredded mentions of something that's like a tiny blurb. Essential. Just somebody was scribbling on a thing.
Cristina: Okay, so he's a traveling salesman.
Jack: What's weird about this is how close together these years are and how far he got as well.
Cristina: How close are those years?
Jack: We're talking 1739 to 1741. That's three years apart. And he traveled three countries quite extensively, quite far apart.
Cristina: You don't think it takes three years? Maybe on a horse or something? Like, he's not walking. I mean, he's on a boat in one of the stories.
Jack: Interesting.
Cristina: Both are pretty fans. Guessing.
Jack: It depends, right? How long could he be? He is on the move. One of those is literally on the move.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Man, I wonder where the ship was headed. Those. I didn't. I did not even bother looking at that. It might have been from one place to the other. These might be way closer connected than we thought. It might have been like he left one of these places. Went to the other.
Cristina: Yeah. Went to the boat and then went to wherever. Well, we don't know if his thing was doing anything.
Jack: We don't know if his thing was doing anything. There's just circumstantial evidence.
Cristina: Yeah. Interesting. This is the only guy recorded selling this powder.
Jack: The only incredibly existing individual. I thought it was very strange that there was a real person who potentially healed people with something he was claiming was unicorn powder and came from a country where they thought unicorns were real to begin with. That they saw in a country that themselves didn't know about unicorns or care about unicorns, but had a rhinoceros that could be described as unicorn. And there's a close enough description.
Cristina: And people do use rhino's horn, right? Like, they do use that like medicine. So, like. Yeah, so it could be the same thing.
Jack: Except the people who think unicorns are real also know what a horse is and think a unicorn is a variant of a horse.
Cristina: But do they know what rhinos are?
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: Positive.
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: The Greeks.
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Because some of the bestiaries are Greek and they have.
Cristina: They have rhinos.
Jack: They have rhinos and they have unicorns.
Cristina: Okay. I don't know. Because it doesn't make sense. Doesn't make sense. Because their solution was versions contain them. Like, that makes me feel like, well.
Jack: This is where I think the unicorn is doing something similar to what Santa is doing. They're keeping fear as the fuel and they're keeping the battery nearby. So they only need one. They're not trying to be super mega God powered. Usually it's just to be elusive and it could be used for other things when they're not being elusive. But it seems like they're sort of managing what they apply it to. They're not crazy over. Probably they could do all the things at the same time. They still be caught, they can still be killed. So they're doing a small version of it, but somehow they're not. They're not killing, they're not drinking the blood or something.
Cristina: There's no stories of dangerous unicorns doing crazy things.
Jack: Not that I'm aware of, but wow. Definitely something to look into. Ultimately, I think they are somehow tapping into the same power that Santa Claus has figured out. That's my theory. Because they're not, as far as we know, drinking the blood of these virgins, but they're being consistently reported as being tamed by a virgin or keeping a virgin nearby or something related to not being dangerous and being easily seen by and being ridden by virgin.
Cristina: Very strange.
Jack: Now I'm thinking virgin, because innocence. Innocence leads to more fear because lack of experience is usually where the innocence lies.
Cristina: But I still want to know where the magic is, because I still haven't heard anything magical.
Jack: Magical examples of a unicorn. The only. The closest thing to an example of unicorn magic is the potentiality of unicorn flying. But any description of a unicorn flying felt more like they were describing a unicorn that was hopping and sustaining a hop for a long time. So a hovering unicorn at most.
Cristina: That's very strange. Okay.
Jack: Like, it's not going upwards. It's like hopping off a cliff, then making it to the other side.
Cristina: Whoa.
Jack: Now, the size of the cliff could be questionable. Is he's like, oh, I couldn't jump that as a person, but I've seen other horses do it. Or is this horse just so scared it's willing to take the shot?
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: And, like, makes it.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: So it doesn't seem like there's no credibility there. Like, if he. If they'd mentioned the distance from one cliff to the other, then we.
Cristina: Maybe you can see some magic.
Jack: Exactly. Like, is there a river in between both of them? And this horse hopped off one side and just glides to the other. Clean.
Cristina: Horse goat thing.
Jack: Yeah, horse goat thing. Okay. There is an interesting detail here that does come through the goat side of things.
Cristina: What's that?
Jack: And hold on. This was a long, long time ago. There was an Indian guy who did talk about a magical creek goat.
Cristina: No, he didn't.
Jack: But he talked about it in knowledge of the constellations. So it's a person who was studying the constellations and was talking about a Greek goat. So, like, those lines cross really hard. And that also felt like useless information because he made no mention of a horse or a unicorn. But it is just a goat.
Cristina: It's just a goat.
Jack: It's just a goat. It seems. It doesn't even seem like just a goat. It's a magical goat. And he was a person who was learning the constellations, learning astrology, particularly. He was learning astrology, and he mentions a goat in his writing. He mentions the magical Greek goat, but one. It's not the Indian unicorn goat. It's just the Greek magical magic goat. And he's a person who studies astrology. I'm sure that's a mention of his studies.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Being written back in the 1700s.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: So that didn't feel relevant. But if you wanted something about a magical goat. There you go.
Cristina: That doesn't help.
Jack: The only note there that makes sense is that the Greeks see the Unicorn as a horse down there. And then some Indians said there was a magic goat in Greece. That's the only like the two dots that I was like, oh, interesting. But then I was like, this is useless.
Cristina: This is.
Jack: This is a coincidence more than anything.
Cristina: Yeah, yeah. I see nothing magical unless attracting versions.
Jack: Is magical, which sounds just like a dude fantasy.
Cristina: Exactly. Yeah. I guess it's magical to men.
Jack: It's magical to men.
Cristina: Yeah. All right. I guess. I guess that's it.
Jack: Yeah, that's. That's what we got on unicorn and I. It's kind of useful to some degree because that means there's a potentiality. There are unicorns. And unicorn doesn't seem particularly magic magical, which tells me that it's a really grounded kind of thing. It's probably really using very little amounts of magic to either sustain its life for really long or maybe do this dumb hover thing.
Cristina: So you think it is an actual creature though, and not just a real animal being confused or something else?
Jack: Well, the possibility is that it's a creature that is on adrenochrome, but it's not doing anything. So that's what you can. We can investigate that and write that off at some point. There's just a creature that isn't on adrenochrome and is also not magic. It's just an elusive normal horse type thing or a rhino type thing or a goat type thing.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And we can write that off if we find out which one it kind of really is, which seems to lean towards horse. Some weird kind of deformed horse or a species of horse that lives in mountains or somewhere that probably has a mist everywhere and looks majestic and people are like, wow, magic. Fun fact. Not here in the notes, but it is a detail that did pop up. You're usually seeing a unicorn standing, looking north when they're motionless. This is the opposite of a dog who poops south. So I guess the dog is also looking north technically.
Cristina: Okay, wait, say that again about the unicorn.
Jack: A unicorn is usually when they're stationary, they're usually aiming north. You can reliably see a unicorn aiming north. So wherever the unicorns is pointing when they stopped is usually north. Which means. That doesn't make any sense. That's one of those things that people just say because like the unicorn has to stop looking somewhere else at some point. It can't always. Like, it's always has to be.
Cristina: It's 100% looking north.
Jack: And yeah, like it has to always be in motion to look anywhere else. What if it's something. What if there's a wall behind it and whatever it needs to eat is against the wall? It can't, because it could only look away from the wall when it's there.
Cristina: That makes it sound sort of magical.
Jack: That makes it look like it lives h***.
Cristina: It lives h***. Yeah. It's in a magical magnet. Yeah.
Jack: That's crazy. So that sounds like bull crap to me.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: But anyways, I think we got some information to look into, and we have some details about the unicorn that I think are fascinating.
Cristina: It's potentially that we might have to.
Jack: Research more on, and we might have to tackle this creature. We might have to catch it, because if we could figure out what they're doing, then we can figure out enough power. Then go get Santa. First, we need a version to attract the unicorn.
Cristina: Yes. I get. Wait, are we versions because we're clones? I'm not really sure. But you have a wife, so I'm assuming. Wait, is this version of you married? I don't know.
Jack: This version of me has a.
Cristina: A.
Jack: What was it? A baby with a Bigfoot.
Cristina: Oh, my. Wait.
Jack: Yeah. I got raped by Bigfoot and we had a baby.
Cristina: Oh, yes. That happened.
Jack: That happened. I have a son.
Cristina: Oh, yeah.
Jack: And the other version of me was married to the cockroach, which also had a child. So there's a. It's the same DNA. So in theory, my DNA. Although I didn't make that baby with that disgusting roach.
Cristina: Are you raising that baby?
Jack: I'm not raising that baby.
Cristina: Are you raising this baby? No.
Jack: No, I'm not raising either.
Cristina: Okay. Okay. So you're definitely not a virgin?
Jack: I'm definitely not a virgin. I can't be the honey.
Cristina: Oh, man.
Jack: Can you be the honey?
Cristina: I guess I could be.
Jack: Yeah. We gotta throw you at the. In the volcano, I guess, to attract the unicorn. I don't know how to attract. We'll figure out how to attract the unicorn.
Cristina: I think we should throw me in.
Jack: A volcano just in case. Maybe it's a. Hey, we could write that one off, you know?
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: I mean, we can make more of us.
Cristina: Exactly.
Jack: It is what it is.
Cristina: We'll do different things.
Jack: That's fair. Like where you're going with this.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Anyways, so if you guys want to find out more where this goes, I suppose, and about other creatures of which we have extensively gone through, you can find. You can contact us, you can message us on our socials, at Twitter, on Instagram, on TikTok, usconvopod.
Cristina: Remember to subscribe, rate, and review the show.
Jack: Yes. And let someone who might like this show know about it.
Cristina: This has been the Rambling podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Bye. And then they're like.
Jack: It would be crazy. I don't know. YouTube's full of. I don't believe it.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Memers. You know memers be doing memeing.
Cristina: Yes. But it'd be so awesome if that was true. It's hilarious. I don't think I'd rewatch the whole show like that, but, yeah, I would. Just, like, Just curiosity.
Jack: Like old Resident Evil dubs.
Cristina: Yeah. But there's no way, because people love the show, so I can't imagine that they were watching it like that.
Jack: The content is probably better than the conversation and dialogue.
Cristina: Yeah. Actually, what's happening is really interesting. Just the first episode is packed with everything.
Jack: Yeah. Yeah. It's f****** awesome.
Cristina: Yep. Everybody watching that so late. The next thing we need to watch that we are so late to is the Tiger King.
Jack: Yeah. Holy s***. I haven't seen that yet. You're right.
Cristina: Yeah. So, yeah, we're behind. Good morning. Good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by greatthoughts.in fox art by 0lupo and logo by Seth McAllister with social media managed by Amber Black.
