Rambling 228: The Wheel of Fame 2
/The duo continues ranking celebrities from all walks of life in an attempt to better understand who are the most famous people on Earth and why.
Topics Discussed:
- Describing Fame
- Global Fame
- Local Fame
- Tier List
- Wheel of Fame
- Random Survey Fact
- Top Ranking
Our Links:
Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast
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+Transcript
Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.
Jack: Going live in 5, 4.
Cristina: What does live mean?
Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I'm your host, Jack.
Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.
Jack: And this is a show where we discuss humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas and spin. Specifically, the idea we're discussing today is a continuation of an idea we were discussing last week, which was a continuation of a conversation that happened the previous week, which is we're discussing not celebrities based on how successful they are or what they've done or if, like, they're good people or anything, just purely ranking them on a tier list based on.
Cristina: How well they're known.
Jack: How well they are known?
Cristina: I think so, yes.
Jack: And do we have the previous. So we can just run down where we were last week and where we are? I guess we would proceed from there to expand with everybody we couldn't get to because there was a lot of people from both of our individual lists. So we're gonna go first, I guess scroll down and we're gonna start down here. And the D tier celebrities, these are usually local celebrities or celebrities known only through a niche group. So people know them because of a specific thing they do or a region they live in or something along those lines. Britney Spears was directed at very teenage girls. Jay Z is very black culture. Beyonce is very women empowerment. These very specific ideas, these are broad people who are known sometimes even globally, but they're still known by specific. Like, you find somebody who. Who has no idea who Beyonce is. That's easy. You find somebody who doesn't know who Beyonce is. There's a bunch of really, really young people and really, really elder people who have no clue who she is. Mel Gibson is the same idea with the younger crowd. Alex Gray is not very specific. You have to, like, psychedelic art at the end. Tiger woods by people who love news scandals. Or golf. Golf. And Machine Gun Kelly by anybody who listens to Eminem, which isn't even. Like, they don't even really know him beyond the battle, a lot of these people. And by people in his, like, hometown or where he lives locally or whatever. And that's all just D tier.
Cristina: And there's the C. Yeah.
Jack: So far in C tier, we have Oprah Winfrey, Samuel L. Jackson, Johnny Depp, and Michael Jordan. This tier, on average, seems to be people who are known within a country very, very, very well.
Cristina: But outside of it.
Jack: Outside of it, very little. Yeah, maybe pockets here and there, but not too much. But then in B tier, we have people who are known by many different people around the world. Yes, but niche in the way that the D tier was for regions or for the craft that the individual does. So that's the same idea, but at a bigger scale. Globally instead of within just a small area is a person who's known globally in mass, but only by people specifically into this thing. But all those people. Like there's a lot of people specifically into that thing. And that includes Hideo Kojima, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Stephen king, Steve Jobs, J.K. rowling, J.R.R. tolkien, Stephen Hawking, Vincent Van Gogh, Michelangelo, Jackie Chan, Will Smith, Greta Thunberg, Edgar Allan Poe, Snoop Dogg, Dave Chappelle, Banksy, Bill Gates, Alan Watts.
Cristina: Why is Jackie Chan so low, though? Remind me of the. Of A and B.
Jack: So I guess the real beginning is at S. When you started S. You're known almost by everybody on planet Earth, regardless of what position you land on. Also got statistics. Iran surveys across people I know to add information.
Cristina: Yes. What.
Jack: But we'll get to it.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: But the.
Cristina: A tier, B tier, C tier.
Jack: The S tier is global recognition almost by everyone. Then A tier is global recognition, but by majority. So just like over most people on Earth know who you are.
Cristina: And you don't think Jackie Chan fits that?
Jack: I don't think Jackie Chan fits that. I think Jackie Chan is probably really, really huge in the United States and really, really huge in China. I don't. He's huge in like India, maybe, or huge in like Russia.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: You know, but like Russians still know who the queen is.
Cristina: That would be impossible.
Jack: You know, like this. That's the. The types of leaps and bounds that are happening because at this high end is crazy. Because then B is known really well in certain locations and then around the world, some. But more than one location. Like several countries. Like Jackie Chan. Two, three, four countries. Yeah, exactly. Huge in certain locations and then unknown entirely in other places. Unlike S tier, where people just kind of know you anywhere. Your job is to be known, essentially, if you're S tier. So moving up to A tier, we have bts, the band, which is astounding because they're so mega huge across the world. There's still a bunch of people who don't know who they are, but we're talking like maybe upwards of 51% of the Earth's population.
Cristina: Like, you've probably heard of them. Even if you never heard them, You've.
Jack: Probably heard of them and know what they do without any other information. Yeah, like for a fact. You know, and. Right. This is one of the rules of what we're discussing. It's about how much. How well known you are at all. So we're talking the magnitude of everyone knows exactly who you are to that same person. Having some trickled people who barely know but still have heard the name or know what you look like. Roughly.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: That's all still part of the theme. That's you still having reached.
Cristina: Then we have what?
Jack: Leonardo da Vinci and Michael Jackson. Huge colossal entities known globally.
Cristina: How do we know Michael Jackson was known globally?
Jack: Michael Jackson was imitated in every country.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And then finally the names that cannot be avoided. It seems that everyone on earth knows who these people are. Hitler, Barack Obama, Pope Francis, Albert Einstein, Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin.
Cristina: Interest. Mostly politicians.
Jack: There's a lot of leaders in there.
Cristina: And just one scientist and one religious dude. The rest are politicians.
Jack: Yes. One scientist and one religious dude. Yeah, I guess so. Everybody else is a politician, including Hitler.
Cristina: Yeah. He's just made to seem like some kind of other thing. Other thing? Like some weird super villain.
Jack: Yeah. I mean, let's be real. I know, but he was literally a super villain.
Cristina: Yes, but what he really, really was was a human. Was a politician. Yeah. His job.
Jack: Oh yeah. His job was just how you do politics.
Cristina: Yeah. Like Vladimir Putin.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: They're into politics, man.
Jack: Politics.
Cristina: They're just controlling.
Jack: Politics leads to war. That's what we've learned. Politics lead to war. Anyways, we have compose this big list that we have so far out of both mine and your list that we made separately. And we're just running down the names on both of our lists and this is as far as we've gotten. So we're gonna actually continue ranking the remaining names that we have and.
Cristina: Are you ready?
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: Is it gonna be Eminem?
Jack: Eminem. I think Eminem is like a B.
Cristina: Like a B. Like a B.
Jack: Right. I think he's really well known the United States and maybe some select countries here and there, but also not by everybody in those places. There's a s*** ton of people who don't listen to Eminem. There's a crazy. He has. He has the largest fan base, but it doesn't mean anything in the world of music where, you know, like elder people may not know who the h*** you are. Really young kids have no idea who you are.
Cristina: We don't think he belongs in the sea. What's. Because they're both very similar.
Jack: No, because sea is just one country.
Cristina: But with some like a little bit everywhere though.
Jack: Yeah. Very small amounts. I think Eminem is huge in select Countries, but in a niche kind of way. Not by everybody in those countries. So all of the people from this age to that age who were into this kind of culture in mainly Western countries like that checks out.
Cristina: I wish I knew.
Jack: Right, that makes sense.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: That would be my argument. And I would say that he is B because of that he is B. It's probably huge in Australia.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: You know.
Cristina: Yeah. I wish he was an A or C just to move people there. But whatever. He is B.
Jack: There's a lot of B going on because they're B in different ways.
Cristina: Very different ways.
Jack: Yeah. That's the biggest problem they're all about is famous.
Cristina: Next up is Shigeru. He was on my list. I'm not sure.
Jack: Okay. This is complicated because people kind of just know what he does. We know who he is and gamers on average will at least have heard of him. But he isn't the most known human. Weirdly enough. I actually think Hideo Kojima is more well known than Miyamoto Moto's kind of only known among gamers.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Think about it. Kojima is a mega celebrity to your favorite. To Earth's favorite directors.
Cristina: But I feel like the average person has. Is more likely to play. Have played one of his games over.
Jack: Yes. But they don't know who Kojima is. He has no fame.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: That's the argument.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Yeah, he has no fame. It doesn't matter.
Cristina: Crap. He's a C. He's pretty low.
Jack: Yeah. He's known very huge in his country.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: No, he's like a B.
Cristina: Like a B.
Jack: He's known really big in his country. Really big in gaming.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: And really big in. I guess the United States is pretty huge. But no, not in any kind of. No. No, I guess not. So I guess really it is just one country and a little elsewhere. You are right. He is a C because he's a super mega hero.
Cristina: In Japan he is a hero.
Jack: A hero. And in gaming.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: He's a huge influential figure. The creator of Nintendo.
Cristina: But he's been downgraded.
Jack: No, he's still the creator of Nintendo. Time doesn't go backwards.
Cristina: No, I mean in letters.
Jack: Oh.
Cristina: We play from Beats.
Jack: Oh yeah. Next up is the Queen or Queen Elizabeth ii. Well, that's an obvious one, I think. Yeah. I think if we were to like really focus on this list afterwards and I want to focus on this S tier later.
Cristina: I'll put them in order.
Jack: Not just order. Yes. Oh, God. I didn't think about that. We're definitely gonna do that we're. Put them in order. And also I want to see if it's possible that there's an S for people who are kind of too well known. And I do believe that the Queen and the Pope fall in there and probably Hitler and then the rest of these people might have some more leeway, but they don't. I don't think they fall in S. So if anything, these are the people on top of S. Yeah.
Cristina: The Pope, Queen, and Hitler. I guess so.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: Whoa.
Jack: So Queen Elizabeth in S tier, we agree.
Cristina: Yeah, yeah. Of course.
Jack: Actually have some facts about specifically that. What the Queen and some other interesting figures.
Cristina: Okay. Next up is.
Jack: Leonardo DiCaprio. I think probably just the United States.
Cristina: Oh.
Jack: And like, probably not even around the world like that.
Cristina: So you're thinking D or.
Jack: Yeah, I'm thinking C. C, yes.
Cristina: It feels right.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: I think C. That makes sense. Yeah.
Jack: C works for me.
Cristina: Taylor Swift.
Jack: Taylor Swift. Do you have Taylor Swift on your list?
Cristina: Probably, because she's well known.
Jack: But is she? That's my question. Is she, like, global?
Cristina: I'm not sure if she's. I know people because of country over her.
Jack: Yeah, it's real American.
Cristina: But. But all her ticket sales are out, I think, like, globally they're out. Like, people can't buy her tickets. They can't see her because everyone's fighting to see her.
Jack: Yeah, but it's that effect of you're known probably within our country and your niche thing.
Cristina: Anything. Other countries are just doing it because.
Jack: No, I think other countries are doing it. Not the. She's not known in those countries. Like, if you went to China and entered a random five households and you just asked any random adult in the household who Taylor Swift is, do they know?
Cristina: They.
Jack: Probably not. That's an easy test on how well known she is. Like, she's not known around the world. She's known amongst teenage girls who like her music a lot.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: And in the United States because we toss her name around a lot.
Cristina: Okay, that's very D. Okay, she's D.
Jack: Unless you got a better argument. I'm not trying to. No, I don't think she's steamroll you. Plato.
Cristina: How do you spell Plato?
Jack: Plato. You spell Plato the same way you spell Plato. Okay, so his name is plate.
Cristina: So then he's very famous. His name is super Recog him. Huh? Okay, his name doesn't count.
Jack: They don't think of him when they say his name. You know.
Cristina: That would be. So. Okay, that doesn't count.
Jack: But Plato. That's an interesting One, I don't know if this European philosophic development era of the period, whatever the era of enlightenment is it called, that that influenced too much of Eastern culture. I think it was a very Western thing that was happening there. So my question is then, even if this is a huge number of people, it's taught in many schools. Is A. Primarily.
Cristina: I was gonna say he's taught in.
Jack: School or Western countries and so it's known among there. So it's probably an A, right? Like, I definitely think he's more of an A, I think well known in many countries, but not every country. In fact, there's some countries who've never heard of this guy. And it's a huge number of them, but like really, really, really well known in Western society.
Cristina: So B, I think A, A, So A. Yeah, I think A, I don't.
Jack: Think he's like, he's known globally, but there's also huge pockets of places where he's not known.
Cristina: Interesting. Yeah. If he's known by like half the world.
Jack: Yeah, exactly. You know, like, it gets exaggerated.
Cristina: Yeah. It's not the whole world, but it's close enough. Closer than a lot of people in this list is going to get to.
Jack: Yeah, exactly, exactly. It should be thinned out towards the top. Definitely. William Shakespeare. Here's an interesting one because then our question should be how do we perceive William Shakespeare? Do we perceive him to be a global figure or we. Do we perceive him to be another Western culture idol? Right?
Cristina: Yes, I think so. I think Western culture item you said.
Jack: I think that would make him an A. But then my question is, does the east teach about William Shakespeare?
Cristina: Right.
Jack: That's interesting.
Cristina: Not this, like, even if they know, they probably. It's probably not the same. They probably don't have classes of just his books.
Jack: Yeah, fair enough.
Cristina: Crazy.
Jack: They have their own history that they're teaching in the same way.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: So fair enough. We're talking that this man is another global. But not everyone.
Cristina: Yes. Abe, baby.
Jack: Yes. That's not everyone. Everyone. Which is definitely where S lands. Nice. Making some progress in here. I can't wait to disclose the dope information.
Cristina: You can cut this list short.
Jack: If he wants to talk about Muhammad Ali.
Cristina: Yeah, he's pretty famous.
Jack: Was he global? I think it was.
Cristina: I think at the time he was.
Jack: It could have been because every country has like their big prized boxer guy or at least at that time they would go at it.
Cristina: So I think. But if we're talking about currently, does that matter?
Jack: Doesn't necessarily have to be. Yeah. We know his name and at his time. Where did he land? Because that's where the history will continue to roll forward from.
Cristina: From.
Jack: And I believe that perhaps he was in a situation where he was in fact known globally as a household name. Even if people did not know. You heard of Muhammad Ali? Everybody's heard of Muhammad Ali.
Cristina: So you think he's a. I think he's a. I like that. I think so.
Jack: I think. Yeah. I think he's. His name is ginormous. It's absolutely bonkers. Start using that. Bonkers. Salvador Dali. I think that's like Alex Gray. It's down there.
Cristina: Yeah. I was going to say yes. I wish more people knew his name.
Jack: Yeah, yeah, I do too. But it's. It's not. It's not one of those situations.
Cristina: So he is. Oh, he is D tier then.
Jack: Yeah. Because he's kind of real specifically known.
Cristina: In the art world.
Jack: Like a lot. Yeah. A lot of people have no idea who Sarbal. That Italy is.
Cristina: They do not know we're in the art history world. You would know him, I guess.
Jack: Pablo Picasso, another painter. Yes. Probably the second most famous painter. Well, the most famous painter that doesn't have the most famous painting because da Vinci made DaVinci. Leonardo da Vinci. Yeah. He's up here because he made the Mona Lisa.
Cristina: Oh, okay. Yeah. What did Pablo do?
Jack: He just made weird abstract figure art.
Cristina: I feel like he goes with Salvador Dali.
Jack: Yeah, he's. I know. I think he's way more known than Salvador Dali. He. This is a force in art.
Cristina: Of course. He changed the art world.
Jack: He changed the art world and perception of it. He's definitely like a C. A C? I think a C. He might even be. I think he's. Yeah, I think he's a B.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: I think he's well known around the world in pockets, but I think it's global.
Cristina: Pockets, but it's global. I'm thinking about it. Does he send Salvador Dali?
Jack: Salvador Dali is way less known than Picasso. Way less known.
Cristina: Okay. I'm gonna put him in B.
Jack: You don't agree? You think C?
Cristina: No, I just. He does feel like he should be higher than some.
Jack: Yeah. Because it's fame, not quality. Quality would put Dali over Picasso for me. Darren Brown. I think this is almost an unheard of human.
Cristina: Yes. Who is he? Is he a magician?
Jack: No, he's a hypnotist.
Cristina: Yes, close enough. I know his name, but. No, I don't know him. I know him. I've seen stuff. But he's D. Like, for sure.
Jack: Yeah. Darren Brown in D class. Darren Brown in D. In the D.
Cristina: Almost done here.
Jack: Mark Zuckerberg.
Cristina: He is well known in America.
Jack: I think he's well known in America. I don't know how well known he is everywhere else.
Cristina: The world knows about his product, though.
Jack: Yeah. They don't know about him.
Cristina: No. Is he a C?
Jack: I think that would make him a C. Yeah.
Cristina: Okay. Because he's very well known here.
Jack: Yes. But I think kind of only here.
Cristina: Right. Is it very similar.
Jack: Elon Musk. I think globally. I think Elon Musk is globally well known. I do not think S class. I think A.
Cristina: A class. A class. B class.
Jack: Yeah. Because there's people who might not know his name or who he is, but I think it's like, like every other person knows who Elon Musk is, at least by name. Yeah.
Cristina: And might not be sure what he does because he does so many things. They might have heard at least one of the things.
Jack: One of the things. Everybody might know him for a different reason.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: But everybody has no knows of him, basically. And I think that makes him an.
Cristina: A. I think that makes him an A too. Tony, the most famous skateboarder.
Jack: Yeah. A D class.
Cristina: A D class.
Jack: Yeah. I think he's known in. Throughout the entire country. Maybe even a C class. I think he might be. Because skaters around the world, skating is huge.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And the skaters definitely know about him.
Cristina: So people who don't know about anything about skating or skaters know his name, at least in America. I don't know the world, but.
Jack: Yeah. So people who are unrelated still know his name.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And then skaters outside. So he's definitely, at bare minimum a C class. D.C.
Cristina: I think he's.
Jack: No, he's a B. Known in the country and throughout the world in small pockets.
Cristina: In small pockets. Okay. Yeah. I don't think.
Jack: Yeah. Wow.
Cristina: Do you love him? Is he your favorite?
Jack: I don't mind. Tony Hawk, he's fine. But now we're running out of names here. Fascinating. And then we will, you know, throw our own out there. Serena Williams. I don't think a lot of people know who she is. She's kind of. Okay. Known in this country and by people who watch tennis and by people who watch Senna's.
Cristina: That is A.
Jack: And I suppose in the countries where people love tennis, she might be well known throughout those countries, even if they don't like tennis.
Cristina: How high is tennis from other sports also like low.
Jack: Low, low.
Cristina: Okay. Because like, if she was a soccer player, I guess if she was a Male soccer player.
Jack: Global wouldn't be small pockets. Global would be.
Cristina: Man. Okay, that's some. After the list, I guess we'll come up with a soccer player that needs to be on this list, though, because obviously.
Jack: Obviously messy.
Cristina: Okay. Messy. Do you want to put him on the list? No, let's first do her.
Jack: Got you. Before she goes, Serena Williams, I think C class. She's known with in the country very well.
Cristina: She's a celebrity. William.
Jack: Sister.
Cristina: Famous. But now we brought up someone that's not on the chart. He deserves to be here somewhere. Messi.
Jack: I think Messi is an A class celebrity.
Cristina: A class.
Jack: I think his fame is a. What do you think?
Cristina: I think. Because I know soccer is a huge deal.
Jack: Yeah. And he is huge in soccer, and.
Cristina: He'S a huge deal in soccer. Huge.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: I think Kim Kardashian. So just put her in the D's.
Jack: Well, I don't know. I don't know how famous she is.
Cristina: You know her name?
Jack: I know her name.
Cristina: How many people you think don't know her name?
Jack: I think everybody in the United States knows her name. C. And maybe some people in other countries of the western culture.
Cristina: Yes. Yes. I think so, too. Yes.
Jack: Which I guess would move her up to ab. There's a lot of bees.
Cristina: There is a lot of bees. Shocking.
Jack: Yeah. Because it's the. The. There has to be an area that's gonna have most people in it. And then there's lower levels and higher levels that are thinner in people representing that. Todd Howard. Definitely, definitely a D. He is only specifically known by gamers and only specific.
Cristina: Gamers and hated by spec gamers. I mean, even gamers who don't know what happened know he's hated a bit.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: I think they know that stuff. Oh, my gosh. This wheel.
Jack: Lewis Hamilton.
Cristina: Pig minds. He is, I feel like, globally or maybe just people who are into the sport.
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: And the sport goes around the world, so.
Jack: Well, this is an interesting point. I know a lot of people who know Lewis Hamilton's name and have no idea what he's ever done. It happens all the time. I say I like F1 and I hear Lewis Hamilton. Right. It's the only name they know.
Cristina: Exactly. And like, in certain countries, they're huge fans of his.
Jack: Yeah, no, he's an eight. He's eight here, dude. He's just casually known.
Cristina: He is. I bet he is. That's why I picked him. Like, come on. Yeah.
Jack: He's the Messi of F1.
Cristina: F1. Yeah. And I guess we don't have to spin the wheel for the last one, but I'm gonna do it anyway.
Jack: No.
Cristina: Why? How dare you spoil it again?
Jack: So many niche people. Yes, he's very niche. Only by gamers. Specific gamers.
Cristina: I know. I picked that up. Wait, did I pick a lot of game guys? Did you pick some? I have no idea.
Jack: No, I don't think I picked a single one.
Cristina: Oh, and he belongs then. Indeed.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: You think his show didn't help at all?
Jack: Still have no idea who that man is.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And I. I'm pretty sure they'll continue to not know who that man is.
Cristina: That is that list.
Jack: Yes. So additional names, famous people. So I'll give you my facts, and if you think of people throughout the process, we'll add them to our tier list.
Cristina: Your facts bring up other people or something.
Jack: There's two things I want to do. I want to. First. I guess not. First we're going to choose which one of these things to do. I can talk about the data I mined, or we can rank S tier numerically.
Cristina: The S tier has to be saved.
Jack: For last to rank it numerically.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Fair enough. Okay.
Cristina: People might pop up for it.
Jack: Oh, I see. I somehow doubt that, but yes, I see what you mean. Okay. So interesting facts that I was discovering while talking about some of these people. I've asked about 13, 14 different countries, individuals, people I know from different countries about some of the people on this list.
Cristina: Awesome.
Jack: And a pattern emerged immediately. So, first of all, everyone knows if you say Queen Elizabeth.
Cristina: Okay. So she deserves to be an S. Yes.
Jack: They just know who that is. Yeah. You didn't have to say Elizabeth. As you say Elizabeth ii, specifically. That way, if you say Elizabeth ii, I did not say Queen Elizabeth. If you say Elizabeth ii, they know who that is.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: They know that is a Queen of England. And if you ask who is the Queen of England, Most people for. Actually, no. The question is, who leads England? Almost everybody responds with the Queen. They know of the Queen, even if they don't even know her f****** name, though she's not leading England when she was leading. They know that this is how much she's known. This is they. Even after death, she's no longer being discussed.
Cristina: She's still.
Jack: They still know. Don't. Don't always know about the Queen.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: There's one country that did not land in this. And I focus on this country continuing to ask this and other questions every time this pattern arose. And the. This is the United States. They have no idea. They have no idea. If you say Elizabeth ii. So many people have no idea. And if you say, if you ask who's the queen? Some people have an idea who's the leader. So many people have no idea. In fact, they actually think. Americans think there, there's always been a king. What a lot of them do.
Cristina: Do we have to draw for then?
Jack: No, no, no. It's just in the United States, that's okay. Only in this country, only the people who I asked, who are born and raised here, clue of the existence of the Queen. But somehow even seeing her in the news whooshes right over their head.
Cristina: But she's not as known as I thought.
Jack: No, she is.
Cristina: She is to everyone except in the United States.
Jack: It's just specifically under educated people in the United States. That's all it really is. But even undereducated people in other countries are so like, yeah, we know. That's all it is. It's not that she's not crazy. Known as the United States seems to be quite handicapped.
Cristina: Did you ask them about random other people just to see if they knew?
Jack: Yes. And most things stayed very consistent. That seemed to be the biggest discrepancy that like they. There's just this lady never existed in their reality. Americans don't believe in the Queen. It never happened in their universe. They've never heard of this. This is an afterthought. Well, but for Barack Obama and Donald Trump, kind of known globally. Anybody asked knows exactly who they are. Vladimir Putin, everybody knew exactly who that was. Albert Einstein, everybody knew exactly who that was.
Cristina: I wasn't sure about him, but yeah.
Jack: Pope Francis, everybody knew who that was. Actually, most of them, most of my personal contacts don't even believe in religion. And when asked, who is the Pope, most of them can name Francis. Okay, that's interesting. I did not. I don't know how they just like his name is more famous than the queens.
Cristina: That's crazy.
Jack: Yes, at least in. Well, again, this is just in the United States.
Cristina: Yes, but people from another country that happen to be in the United States. Are you asking people?
Jack: No, I'm asking people I know from around the world.
Cristina: Oh, okay.
Jack: And everybody seems to know who the Queen is. Everybody seems to know who poop is. Just the Americans don't believe in the Queen and only a few of them.
Cristina: Okay, but those Americans know the Pope.
Jack: Yeah, for sure. Then I, unrelated to any of this, got sucked into a rabbit hole of asking more questions to a lot of these same friends of mine, some of which were very basic questions that I was curious about because I've seen YouTube videos about this.
Cristina: What?
Jack: And so I asked all of these questions. Please don't Google. Just answer with what you know.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And first one is how many states there are in your country. And a lot of the time, it looks like those videos are bullshit and, like, you know, they're specifically plucking random dumb people. It's kind of shocking how many people within the United States have no idea how many states there are.
Cristina: Stop lying.
Jack: I swear, it is weird how. I don't know how this. Like, you must have really not been paying attention to the most basic lessons in school.
Cristina: Were they kidding, dude?
Jack: No. I asked straight questions, and we were like, give me honest answers. Like, this is a real moment. And, like, consistently, I got 48. But it's like, how do you. Like, you had to subtract from 50 to get there, bro. I don't understand. You had to because you were never taught 48.
Cristina: That are connected. Yeah, but that.
Jack: That doesn't change the fact that they must have heard 51st in order to subtract 2.
Cristina: I know. I don't know. It's so weird. It's weird.
Jack: Yeah, it's very strange.
Cristina: No one said 51.
Jack: Yes, I heard 51 as well. I heard 51. People believe Puerto Rico is already a state. Of course, Anyone who said 51, I asked that question too, and they said Puerto Rico. Every single one of them.
Cristina: But do you know anyone that went higher or lower than those two numbers?
Jack: It was exactly 51 and 48 that I heard. And out of about 13 or 14 people, I'm not really sure the exact number, about half of them were giving these answers, and the other half knew.
Cristina: And it's like, whoa, which half were the Americans?
Jack: I focus entirely on the Americans for these people.
Cristina: Oh, okay. Because I thought for the queen, though, you were asking.
Jack: I was asking a bunch of different people from different countries. There were about 13 or 14 different countries, but many people from all these countries.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: I just happen to know people within different groups.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And then I asked, okay, I know six or seven Koreans. Let me ask all these Koreans in question. And I know two Japanese people. Let me ask them the same question. And I know people from England. Let me ask them the same question.
Cristina: You ask them about how many states are in America?
Jack: No, only the Americans got asked these questions.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And the Americans, on average, half of them did not know.
Cristina: What other questions did you ask?
Jack: It was mainly just plucking at that. I thought that was interesting that they did not know who the queen was. And I Thought it was very interesting that they had no clue about how.
Cristina: Much states there are.
Jack: How many states they have.
Cristina: That is so weird. Yeah, I gotta ask people that. I would just assume that they would know, though. That's so weird.
Jack: Oh, crap. Yes. And they cannot name back more than about four presidents.
Cristina: Okay. I probably can't do that either. I don't know. I know president's names, but I can't tell you. Yeah, yeah, it would be random.
Jack: Yeah. Like you don't even. Could you at least identify their numbers without knowing.
Cristina: What do you mean their number?
Jack: Like what number of president they were? No, the obvious one is Lincoln. You don't know what number Lincoln was. Everybody knows he was 13.
Cristina: I don't know that. I don't know. I know Lincoln. I know he had a tall hat and something about fake teeth and a fat wife.
Jack: I bet his hat was super real. How famous is Lincoln?
Cristina: Abraham Lincoln In America or the world?
Jack: In the tier list.
Cristina: Oh, in our tier list. I don't think we put him there. Unless you want to put him there.
Jack: That's why I'm saying, oh, he has.
Cristina: To be a C. You think he's.
Jack: Only famous within our country? Probably, right?
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Like, at most he would be very famous in African countries because of being a guy who freed the slaves in America.
Cristina: Why would they care?
Jack: I'm saying that that would be the. At most, that would be the closest connection. Oh, to say he's more famous. Trying to make a case for, like, is this possible?
Cristina: Yeah, that feels very random.
Jack: Well, no, I'm saying if they felt connected. I know that a lot of African countries do not like American black people. That's very common sentiment. Or black on black racism.
Cristina: Is it just. Is it racism?
Jack: Yeah, it kind of is. They don't like American. Black people in a lot of African.
Cristina: Countries don't just like Americans. How can you tell?
Jack: It's discussed by them.
Cristina: They say specifically.
Jack: Oh, not specifically, but like, if you were to ask a black person from the United States who's visited those countries and they told you the way that they are kind of treated and look, that then you would be like, okay, I'm not accepted here. You guys don't think I'm one of you. I am just some s*** from over there.
Cristina: But wouldn't they do that to anyone who showed up? I don't know.
Jack: No, not necessarily. Why? There's partnered with so many people from around the world in so many of the countries in Africa, including South Africa, which is notorious for connecting with the Western world. So Heftily. So why would they do that to everybody at random? It's really a thing about African blacks not liking American blacks. But that's totally outside the point. Who else can we think about who is reasonably famous? Either somebody in crazy height of fame and then mainly like. I think musicians seem to break out pretty heftily. Like Prince is probably really well known. I think mainly more known in the United States.
Cristina: Yes, that's the problem with a lot of it is that you just know the famous people in your local area.
Jack: Yeah, we're mainly gonna think about people from the United States.
Cristina: How do we think of S class tier?
Jack: Well, S class T, that's really what we should be doing. We should be trying to fill that out. But who is not Jesus? There you go. Oh, those are easy figures. If Jesus is real.
Cristina: If Jesus. So we are putting him there because I did say in the last episode that I was thinking of Jesus, but then I wasn't sure.
Jack: Well, the idea is we don't know. So we'll put him there because we don't actually know. Who else is there? The Dalai Lama. Global famous people. Leaders of countries, politicians, inventors. Is Edison famous everywhere?
Cristina: No.
Jack: Isn't Thomas Edison, the guy who made the light bulb is famous everywhere?
Cristina: I don't know. A class famous?
Jack: I think. Yeah, he's not as class. I think he's a class Thomas Edison. D***, man. His classes are hard. umm. Countries. No, but I'm tired of putting presidents.
Cristina: No leaders.
Jack: No more leaders. That's obvious. Yes, they're known by the world.
Cristina: Yeah, man. I had someone and I lost it. I lost it.
Jack: How big is Amazon globally? Do people just know Steve Jobs?
Cristina: Steve Jobs, Amazon?
Jack: Yeah. I actually don't think that Amazon is this mega thing in the whole global sphere.
Cristina: Amazon is not Steve Jobs.
Jack: I am not Steve Jobs. Jeff Bezos.
Cristina: I don't think he's known worldwide.
Jack: Yeah, I don't think he's all he's known too well. I would argue he's like a B or a C. I'm gonna put him in C. That checks out. None. Primarily in the United States.
Cristina: Did we put Steve Jobs?
Jack: He's somewhere in there, but. Okay, screw all of this. Let's try to put these people in order now.
Cristina: Just the S class.
Jack: Just the S class. No, just the S class. We're gonna put this S class in order. And I think probably the most famous person on this entire list, weirdly enough, is either Jesus. Jesus or Hitler or the Pope.
Cristina: I don't know.
Jack: I think it's Between Jesus or Hitler. I think that's where, like, the most. Like, everybody's heard of.
Cristina: People were forced to learn Jesus more than Hitler. Like, we teach about, like. I don't know, we teach.
Jack: We kind of. In a lot of the world, we force both.
Cristina: It's a little different with Jesus.
Jack: Why?
Cristina: I don't, like.
Jack: Like, it's even taught in the household. Yeah, it's in many households.
Cristina: So I'm gonna put Jesus on.
Jack: Yeah, I think Jesus is probably the most famous.
Cristina: Then Hitler can be second place. Unless you think the Queen is.
Jack: No, I think Hitler comes next. And then I think there's an interesting problem between Pope Francis and Queen Elizabeth ii. I think they're about as famous. I actually think more people know about.
Cristina: The Pope than the Queen.
Jack: Yeah, I think it's. It's the Pope than the Queen. And I don't think anybody knows the Dalai Lama's name.
Cristina: Then why is he an S. Clear tier?
Jack: No, because they still know who he is.
Cristina: Oh.
Jack: You know, usually people have seen the most frequent Dalai Lama in some iteration.
Cristina: Nevertheless, is he a real person?
Jack: The Dalai Lama? Yes.
Cristina: Is he a Jesus figure?
Jack: He's some sort of spiritual figure.
Cristina: Okay, so I'm putting him under Hitler. Unless you think the Queen goes after him. Oh, no, you said Pope.
Jack: Yeah, the Pope goes way after. Yeah, yeah, it's after Hitler. Before the Dalai Lama, then the Queen. Yeah, then Queen Elizabeth.
Cristina: After the Dalai Lama.
Jack: No, before.
Cristina: Before.
Jack: I think the Queen is probably more known than the Dalai Lama.
Cristina: Then there's the scientists and the three rulers. The three rulers are going to be in the bottom. They don't need to be in order. I feel like. Unless you want to put them in order, but I feel like it's not really important. But where does the scientist go?
Jack: What do you think?
Cristina: Before? After. Before. I'm gonna say before.
Jack: You think Einstein's more famous than Obama?
Cristina: I think he's taught more in schools.
Jack: Fair enough. I think most people would be familiar with Einstein.
Cristina: I think something about history does help some of these people. Like, if we were going to put the presidents in order, I wouldn't know who to choose between Obama and Trump.
Jack: Yeah, that's a close tie.
Cristina: I would put Vladimir above them.
Jack: No, you know what? Fair enough. I think Trump is more globally known then I think Vladimir, and I think Trump are probably even more known than Einstein.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Trump is huge.
Cristina: You're going to put Einstein beneath Trump?
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: They could put Trump over Obama.
Jack: Yeah. I think Putin and Trump are pretty close together.
Cristina: But who goes first?
Jack: I think Trump is more famous than Putin. I think Trump is so exaggeratedly well known because everybody has something to say about him.
Cristina: Okay. But you're not gonna put him above the Llama and Elizabeth or the Pope.
Jack: This is hard one. I do think Donald Trump is about as famous as the Lama.
Cristina: I'm just gonna leave him underneath him.
Jack: Yeah. Because towards the top, it's getting fuzzy. I know Hitler and Jesus are on a whole category of their own.
Cristina: S plus tier.
Jack: That's S plus. And then we got, like, the top of S with Pope Francis and the Queen, and then the mid tier with Dalai Lama. And Donald Trump still feels wrong there, but I think he feels he's probably higher. Vladimir Putin. And then the bottom with Barack Obama and Albert Einstein.
Cristina: Yes. They're all S class.
Jack: They're all S class. They're known by almost everybody. Galileo.
Cristina: Galileo.
Jack: Is that an S class person? I think yes. I think a lot of people have at least heard the name. Or not an S class. I think that's more of an A.
Cristina: I think that's an A.
Jack: Yes. Because a lot of people won't know who he is, but they will know his name.
Cristina: Yeah. Do you need to know what he's done?
Jack: Like, they don't even know he's a person when they hear Galileo. That's really the thing, because there's so many things named Galileo after him, obviously, but they don't know that.
Cristina: What about Julius Caesar? That doesn't count, does it?
Jack: Why?
Cristina: Because there's things named after him.
Jack: Yeah. But that doesn't make him more famous.
Cristina: Yeah. Okay.
Jack: So I guess. I guess this is our ultimate list. I guess it is. Jesus, Hitler, Pope Francis, Queen Elizabeth ii, the Dalai Lama, President Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin, President Barack Obama, and Albert Einstein as a top of our. As our S tier. The most famous humans to have existed.
Cristina: Mm. I like it that you like it. Yep.
Jack: There's nothing that feels off here.
Cristina: No.
Jack: All right, so the most famous individual probably in all of time is. It is. I mean, is. Is Jesus. I mean, Hitler's pretty up there, though.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: For being around way less time.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Hitler's arguably way more effective.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Long term.
Cristina: But if you asked all those people that you asked random questions to about these two people, they would know both these names.
Jack: Yeah, they did.
Cristina: They did.
Jack: Well, not Jesus. Anything about Jesus, but I did for Hitler. And everybody knew who he was and what he did.
Cristina: He's more famous than the Queen.
Jack: He's more famous than.
Cristina: At least in America.
Jack: Yes. In the United States, for whatever reason, there was a Weird gap about Queen Elizabeth.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: They just no awareness.
Cristina: But now I want to know. Yeah, I think that's complete.
Jack: I think that's complete. I think Jesus, then Hitler. Yeah, fair enough.
Cristina: Famous famous people.
Jack: Yeah. Those are who we believe are the most famous. I guess those are the most famous. We're trying to understand really the S class by putting everybody else in the other classes. That really helped us understand who are the top famous people. Because any random person is the bottom famous person. Yes, it's only mattering for the top, but we needed to understand what the top was anyways. If you guys have names that you think actually would go S class, that would be a great help. If you think of people that you think are known by the world, send us those names of these celebrities at all our socials, @justconvo pod, on Instagram and Twitter and Facebook and Tick tock and wherever.
Cristina: Wherever. And remember to subscribe, rate and review the show.
Jack: Yes. And use word of mouth to share it. Tell people about the program. It is awesome. And they will be like, whoa. Or they'll be like, nah.
Cristina: This has been the rambling podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Bye.
Jack: Sab.
Cristina: Good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by greatthoughts.info art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McCallister with social media managed by Amber Black.
