Rambling 125: Banshees and Women in White

What are Banshees? What are their origins? Are they related to the Woman in the White Dress? Answers to this and more on this episode!

Story:
The duo unpacks Banshee’s, Women in White and any similar or relate ghost or creature in order to get better informed as they continue to fill their Mars prison with different paranormal beings to study. All in the name of science.

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed

• Banshees
• Death Omen
• The Weeper
• Woman in the White Dress
• La Llorona
• Lilith
• Shadow Realm
• Shapeshifters
• Fear
• Reapers

Art by IG @Zero_Lupo

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+Transcript

Cristina: This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean? Welcome to Just Conversation, the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas in childish ways. I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And I'm Jack.

Cristina: And if you haven't yet, remember to hit that subscribe button to get notified the second new episodes are released.

Jack: And also, this show is most enjoyable with a listening partner to share opinions and ideas on the topics that we discuss. So be sure to find a single individual, somewhere random, that they wouldn't expect to be found by a different complete stranger, and approach them with this very tone. I'm speaking.

Cristina: You sound like an anime villain or something.

Jack: That's fine.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: You approach them and you. Hey, Yugi, I have a show for you to listen to. And if you don't, I will fling you to the shadow realm.

Cristina: To the shadow. We're revisiting the shadow realm? Sort of. Not really, but one of the creatures we talked about.

Jack: We are?

Cristina: Yes. The Banshee.

Jack: The banshee? Yes.

Cristina: Remember last time? Well, not last time. Dragon Ball Z, but a few episodes ago, we talked about Ireland creatures. Yes, yes. And we learned about fairies. And I'm still unsure about this fairy ghost thing, if it's a fairy or a ghost or if it's us or not. Like, I know you explained it, but it still makes no sense in my head because it's so many different ideas, but it's all the same. But it's all different, so it's hard to understand for me. But the Banshee, she's a fairy lady, but she's also a ghost.

Jack: Right. Are they different variants of this?

Cristina: Of the banshee?

Jack: Yeah. Is it like, some stories say she's one, some stories say she's the other. Or is it like, collectively, it's unclear.

Cristina: I think she is definitely a fairy lady. Ghost. A ghost fairy lady. Got you for sure. She's usually. I didn't talk about this last time. I didn't realize she was. How short she is. Because, you know, if you remember, the other fairies are the short people.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: Well, she could be between 1 to.

Jack: 4Ft tall, so not human.

Cristina: Yeah, so that goes. They say it goes along with her being an old lady, but also to show that she's a fairy lady. So although in different stories we talked about she could be a young lady. Little girl. Did we say little girl or just a young lady to old lady age range?

Jack: No, I think we saw this before she was an old lady. So there's more range here.

Cristina: There's more range?

Jack: Yes. Before we establish she was an old lady. And there's more range because she's not just an old lady.

Cristina: She's a fairy lady. No, she's a short lady.

Jack: So short said she could be a young lady.

Cristina: Last time. I'm pretty sure I said she could be a young lady.

Jack: Oh, really?

Cristina: I don't remember. There was like, three age ranges. The young, the middle age, and the very old. You remember that?

Jack: No.

Cristina: Okay, well, that was last time. This time I'm just talking about her being old because I didn't realize how short she was. But that doesn't matter. What matters, though, is that she's usually the ghost of a murdered lady or a ghost of a mother who died at childbirth. Those are important.

Jack: Yes. Okay.

Cristina: And if you remember, she sings or mourns over the death of family members. Because it's like every family in Ireland has a banshee.

Jack: Why?

Cristina: Well, not every, but the ones that come that have their blood from Ireland, of the first people that took over, remember there was a people that fought the fairies, and that's when the fairies disappeared.

Jack: So they're all descendants of St. Patrick?

Cristina: No, of the Malaysians. I think they were called those people. And if you have their blood, then you have a banshee.

Jack: Hold the f*** up. The Irish are just Malaysians.

Cristina: That's how I think it's pronounced. I'm not sure if that's the correct way it's pronounced.

Jack: What is Malaysian people from Malaysia?

Cristina: No. Then it's probably not the same Malaysia that you're thinking about. Is this other word that looks very similar to that.

Jack: Okay.

Cristina: I don't think they're connected. Well, sometimes they could be a predictor of death. They could be crying before someone dies. I don't know how they can tell, because usually you find out the person died afterwards anyways. And even if the person died far away, they'll get the news of the death from her crying. And that would be kind of their warning that something bad happened to their family member. Also, there's some moments where a bunch of banshees are crying. I didn't know that.

Jack: During tragedies, maybe.

Cristina: Well, for them, it means that if a person. For someone who's. For someone who's great or holy, they'll cry. A bunch of them will cry for that person.

Jack: What does that mean?

Cristina: Like, I guess the great. Like king or holy, like a saint? I don't know.

Jack: Okay.

Cristina: And then a bunch of them will cry. I don't know why they care, but they care a lot. And in Welsh folklore, there's also a ghost that cries before a person dies.

Jack: And in similar Dubanche, just in that.

Cristina: Way that it's crying. It's a voice that's crying, but it's.

Jack: Not, like, super short thing.

Cristina: A short thing like a.

Jack: Like a fairy.

Cristina: Oh, I don't know. I don't know if they consider. When it comes to things outside of Ireland, I don't know if they consider it as a ferry. I think they're just ghosts.

Jack: Yeah. I don't mean, like, it's called a fairy.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: I'm saying, like, is it, like, is the description the same being?

Cristina: The only thing I got from the description of this ghost is that it has a voice that they hear. I don't think they see this ghost.

Jack: Got you, got you, got you.

Cristina: And then in Scottish folklore, there's, like, three different creatures that are like this. Can I call them creatures or ghosts? Three different ghost stories that are similar. One is called the Little washer Woman. And when they see her, she's usually washing clothes of people who are about to die. So if she's washing her clothes, I guess, you know, I'm about to die.

Jack: How do they know it's her? What does she look like?

Cristina: I think she's actually kind of described as the same as the banshee as the old lady. Like, she's an old lady washing clothes.

Jack: Got it, got it.

Cristina: And then in a second one from Scottish folklore, she's called a weeper.

Jack: I have heard that before.

Cristina: The weeper.

Jack: Yeah, I've heard that before.

Cristina: Okay. Well, do you. What do you know about her?

Jack: I don't know anything about the name.

Cristina: Oh, okay. Well, she also cries predicting death from her cries. She likes to cry at night by waterfalls, stream or lakes, and in glens or mountainsides. She's very found in very specific locations in Ireland. I mean, Scottish Scotland.

Jack: And she also looks like a fairy.

Cristina: We'll say old lady. Got you, old lady, because fairy. I don't know. I don't know. I guess, like the fairy banshee. Yes.

Jack: Sure looks like a banshee. We'll leave it there.

Cristina: She cries over the death of people who are killed in battle. Those are the specific weepers. Yeah, the weeper. It's just people who died in battle. She'll cry for them. And her cries cause people anxiety for their children that are in war because, you know, like, they're like, is it my child that's gonna be dead? Or whatever. Pz, you don't know. Who's she crying for? And there was an event, though, the Massacre of glencoe. And the McDonald's weeper was heard crying all night. People who heard her crying left the place before the massacre.

Jack: So those people lived and then everybody else died.

Cristina: Yeah, everyone else died.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: Yep. Yep. And she sounds a lot like the banshee, though, in that they're like. Well, I don't know if the banshee really predicts death, but we can't really tell from when she cries to when they find the death of people.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: So, like, it seems like she stops crying when you find the body. So it could be that she's predicting as well.

Jack: Does she sound like she's luring you to the body? Is the cry always heard from the direction of the dead?

Cristina: I don't think so. I don't think so. I just think, like, once you do get the news, then the crying stops.

Jack: I wonder if there's a movie about banshees.

Cristina: Probably. I bet Supernatural has all these creatures.

Jack: Yeah, definitely. They've come across a banshee before.

Cristina: Yeah. And then there's the third version of the Scottish folklore thing because they have so many. Many, I guess, of this similar banshee ghost thing. And it's. This one's kind of creepy. It's when you're sick and you're about to die, she's gonna be outside your door crying.

Jack: But you don't know it's her.

Cristina: No, I guess not. But still, if you hear a lady crying, you're probably like, oh, I guess. I guess this is it. If you're sick and dying in bed.

Jack: That means you're probably in a hospital, in which case you just hear some random person you don't know crying.

Cristina: That's so freaky.

Jack: It just probably means somebody already died in the hospital.

Cristina: That's true.

Jack: And that's exactly where you're at.

Cristina: Because maybe before hospitals were a thing and you were just dying at home. That would be creepy then.

Jack: Unless it's so bad you know you're gonna die.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Then everybody around you knows it could just be somebody, you know crying.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It's only if you're in your house and you hear somebody who isn't familiar crying.

Cristina: Yeah, I guess that would be very creepy, though. Yeah. There's. In Latin America folklore, her name is La Giorona, and that means the Weeping Woman or the weeper.

Jack: Yes, the same thing.

Cristina: Okay. It's the same thing. The Weeping Woman.

Jack: And I'm assuming all the rule sets.

Cristina: Work the same this One's a little.

Jack: More complicated because La Giorona sounds like the woman in the white dress. That is usually what they call her.

Cristina: Yes. There is some connection with this one, I guess.

Jack: Yes, yes, I'm very familiar with La Giorona in Latin American culture. That one is identical to the lady in the white dress. You take her home and she goes in and she left. Some bullshit. And you try to take it and then they're like. She was always been dead.

Cristina: Yes. She's always wearing white, I guess, is what she has in common with the woman in white.

Jack: So you're telling me the woman in white and the weeper fused to create La Giorona?

Cristina: Well, she's a little more complicated though, than the woman in white, because in her story, you know why she's weeping?

Jack: Somebody died.

Cristina: Her children's dead.

Jack: Got you.

Cristina: That's what makes her different. She's usually. She drowned her children. Is it part of her story? And I know one of her stories which. A woman who was beautiful, marries a rich man, and they had two children. And one day she finds her husband cheating on her. So she kills her children for some reason out of anger, revenge, and she regrets it immediately. And out of the guilt, she drowns herself. But she can't enter the afterlife without her children. So she haunts. She haunts, I don't know, around. She haunts places, children, I guess. I think she tries to kidnap children. Maybe, I'm not sure. But yes, the reoccurring themes though, of her story, because there's a bunch of different versions of it. And that's just one of the stories of her is the white dress, the crying and the water, because she drowns her kids in the water. So I guess.

Jack: Right. Sometimes she's wet, sometimes she looks like she just got. She was drenched.

Cristina: Yes. There are white women stories, though, that the woman is also wet, but not relating to drowning her children, usually because.

Jack: She'S out in the rain.

Cristina: Well, the one that I read, one of them was that she. I think she was in a car accident.

Jack: It was raining.

Cristina: She was in a car accident and she actually. She drowned in a lake or something.

Jack: Oh, I know one that she was in a car accident while it was raining. And there was one where she forgot her purse and in. What was it? She left her purse in a cab, got out or she lost it or some s*** like that. Oh, and then she couldn't get in because her phone or some s*** was in there. Or maybe phones didn't exist. Whatever. She couldn't get in Contact with anybody, and she wandered into the woods or whatever, and she went missing. It's because she died in the woods.

Cristina: Yeah, there's quite a few in the woods.

Jack: Yeah, it was raining. And that's why she's wet.

Cristina: That's why she's wet. The. Oh, there was one in Canada, one of their famous white women. She felt she.

Jack: Women in white.

Cristina: Women in white, they call them both ways for some reason. Either or. But the woman in white is better, I guess. And she was gonna marry someone. I think he went to war. So she. She jumped off a fall that they have over there. They have many falls. Well, she jumped off one of them in her wedding dress. Of course, that was the white dress. Not all of them died in a white dress. In a wedding dress, but they're all usually white still. The dress that they are wearing. Some of them white dresses, Some of them wedding dresses. You've heard of the wedding dress ones?

Jack: I thought they were all either a wedding dress or some variant of it.

Cristina: Oh, okay. Because I'm assuming the lady that kills her children even though she's wearing a white dress, isn't wearing her wedding dress. I don't know. That's kind of crazy. But I mean, maybe she is. Like, who knows?

Jack: Maybe she put the wedding dress on and then killed her skids.

Cristina: Yes. Whoa. I guess that. Then that's really revenge to her husband.

Jack: No, that's madness.

Cristina: That's madness. Okay, well, in Mexico, they tell these stories to the children to encourage them not to wander off after dark. So she's like a boogeyman type of situation. In America, part of their story is that they could hear her screaming or crying while she's walking around near water or in the dark. So to scare the kids from going out there. Yeah, where they don't want the kids to be. In Venezuela, the story is a little different in that she has to raise her children alone because the father died in war. And she just. I guess she got tired of that and decided, I'm gonna kill my kids. And then her spirit now kidnaps and kills other people's kids.

Jack: Okay, so it's basically the same story.

Cristina: Yeah. Except in this story, families put wooden crosses above their doors to ward her.

Jack: Off because they think she's some sort of a demon.

Cristina: Yes. Which is like the Lilith story, which I want to talk about. Lilith. Do you know her?

Jack: Lilith is a biblical creature.

Cristina: Yes. She's from the. Well, she's not really from the Bible. Like, she's not in the Bible, but in an early Jewish interpretation, Of the Bible she appears, I guess. And the first Eve, they call her because she was made like Adam in the beginning, you know, instead of Adam. And then Eve threw Adam's. What is it? His. Something.

Jack: Yes, his rib. While Adam was created. And then Eve was created from Adam to be less than Adam and his servant. To Adam, Lilith was the equivalent. And I believe she predates Adam. She wasn't made at the same time as Adam, if I'm not mistaken. I believe she was made first. As if Lilith was the first person.

Cristina: Really? Well, I'm not sure about when she was made to Adam, but they were both made from the same ground or whatever.

Jack: And Lilith is not a good person.

Cristina: Yes, she. They had problems, her and Adam, because they had sex problems. Lilith didn't want to lay down. She was not happy with that because they're equals. She doesn't want to be the bottom. And he was like, no, you have to be the bottom.

Jack: So she wants to f*** in that way where the guy is on his back with his legs pushed up and then she sits on his d*** as if she were the one f****** him, but his d*** is inside her. Interesting.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: She was in some weird positions.

Cristina: Yes. Maybe she wanted them standing up together.

Jack: Or maybe she was a lesbian.

Cristina: Maybe she was a lesbian.

Jack: She was the first lesbian. She's considered the first sinner.

Cristina: She's definitely not a lesbian. I think only because she does, like have sex with people. She's. Before she was in this story, she was a. What's it called? A succubus. She's pretty much a succubus.

Jack: Before she was in the Bible, she was a succubus.

Cristina: Yeah. Like they turned that story into this story because everything's based on other things. The Bible's not the first story.

Jack: So the origin from her in a different culture was a succubus.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: There was a succubus called Lilith that then got incorporated into Christianity and became Lilith, the first woman.

Cristina: Yes. Do you know about that?

Jack: I did not know that. I knew that Lilith was the first woman and I believe she was the first human.

Cristina: You mean like her then Adam? Right?

Jack: I believe it was her then Adam. Except we wouldn't call her human.

Cristina: No.

Jack: Because human was Adam and everything that came from Adam.

Cristina: Oh, really?

Jack: Yes. The idea would be that if you make two different. Even if they look identical.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Adam is one and Lilith is another. So you'd have an entire name of things that came from Lilith.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And are like Lilith, made from her literal matter.

Cristina: Well, good.

Jack: And then entire Tree coming from Adam.

Cristina: She does have children.

Jack: They are not human.

Cristina: No, they're not human.

Jack: Yeah, they're not human because human is Adam and anything that came from him. If Adam mated with Lilith, then those would be human because it would be anything that came from Adam. Yeah, but because they did not mate, it did not come from Lilith. And thus no version of Lilith's offspring are human.

Cristina: Although it's weird, because she does steal his seed and have babies from him. But they aren't humans.

Jack: That's weird, because they should be. Anything that comes from Adam is human.

Cristina: Well, I guess because it's mixing with whatever she is. If she's a whole different thing.

Jack: No, no, no. If she mated with Adam, it would still be. It would be half and half. You'd still calling them human because Adam.

Cristina: Okay, they're called Lilium, and they're earthbound demons.

Jack: Earthbound demons.

Cristina: Yes. She ran away, of course, to gain her independence, like an independent lady. Whatever. And then Adam tells on God. He's. He's like a tattletale. And then God sends three angels to her to get her back. The angels find her in a cave giving birth to their children, and they. And she refuses to go to the garden, so they kill a hundred of her children. I wonder how she reproduces. I wonder what the number was. Unless it was 100 kids and they killed. That or there was, like, she had a thousand and they killed 100 of her thousand kids. But they say, we're gonna come here every day and kill a hundred of your kids every single day until you come back to the garden.

Jack: That's crazy.

Cristina: Yes. So in her revenge, she kills children. Regular kids, I guess, because we're all part of Adam now. So she's killing us.

Jack: Fair enough. She's just taking revenge on Adam's entire bloodline.

Cristina: Yeah. So the death of stillborns and crib deaths are blamed on her.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: Yep. Lilith is pretty cool. I don't know. There's like, a debate on, like, is she good? Is she bad?

Jack: No. Lilith is bad no matter what.

Cristina: I know. There's just women who look at her.

Jack: Well, she's not bad bad the way Lucifer is bad.

Cristina: What way is that?

Jack: That he didn't really do anything bad.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: She had an opinion.

Cristina: Yeah, well, raping people is not good. When she got there, I guess that was bad.

Jack: Well, she was initially not bad.

Cristina: Yeah, she was initially not bad until the angels killed her children, which then.

Jack: Makes it questionable whether she's bad or scarred.

Cristina: Or scarred. Yeah. And then there's In Ancient Greek, a lady named Lamia, she was having affair with Zeus. So his wife Hera killed. Well, didn't kill her. Killed her children. That's one of the stories. She killed her children and then Lamia kills other women's children. And then in the second story, Zeus's wife forced Lamia to eat her own children. And then Zeus gave her shape shifting abilities, which I think is interesting, that she's a shape shifting monster that eats children, which she should have been in our other episode about shapeshifters that we did about eating, but that was about blood drinking, shapeshifting.

Jack: Yeah, it was about blood suckers.

Cristina: Yeah. But she's a shapeshifter who eats children and might have eaten her own children because of Seuss wife. And today she's used as a boogeyman to frighten children. Similar to Il Cuckoo. And then the most popular version, this is a white lady. She's everywhere.

Jack: Yeah. There's no country that doesn't have this story.

Cristina: Even the people we mentioned before this point were probably white ladies. They were probably all dressed in white.

Jack: Yeah. That's what's kind of fascinating about the white lady, that out of all these arguments that one might be the possible one because there's so much s***. But then the thing is, people have stories of oh no, she's this and no, she's that. No, there's a f****** creature that happens to look like a lady in a white dress or something.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Because it's everywhere. It's similar to the problem of a chupacabra. You've seen it too many places to say. It's just here now there is the regional story equivalent where. Well, we believe in these things. So it has to take this form when we tell the story. Yeah, but there's one thing they're all talking about that's similar enough difference between Sasquatch and Bigfoot and Yeti is there's the same s***. It's regional. But there's a thing you're talking about.

Cristina: Yeah. Like even the white lady would look different in like her facial features or something. If you had a draw her, she.

Jack: Might in the Middle east she probably has reddish skin. If you're in Asia, she has yellowish skin. If you're in Europe, she probably has really milky skin. If you're in Africa, she probably has dark brown skin. But you're talking about the same f****** thing.

Cristina: Yes, she does the same exact thing.

Jack: All the same things.

Cristina: Yes, all the same.

Jack: So it's basically we could just say that the lady in white is A Banshee?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: They're the same thing.

Cristina: Yeah. The only interesting. Really interesting thing about the Banshee is that it's family related. So I wonder if the white lady. There's stuff like that. Like you hear her or you see her, if you're somehow related to her family and you just don't know how you're related. Because we have no idea how related we are to a stranger we meet.

Jack: Man. Here's the. Here's the interesting division between the lady in white and the Banshee. The problem is that the Banshee is you're totally. It doesn't have to be family related, but it's warning you of a death of somebody close.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And she's crying at your location.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: The woman in white doesn't do that. You encounter her in the middle of f****** nowhere.

Cristina: She might be crying in some stories, I'm sure there's a story. She's crying.

Jack: Who's lady in white?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: No, I'm not saying that she doesn't cry.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: I think she's always crying.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: I'm saying she's not at your house.

Cristina: There's no warning.

Jack: Yeah. She's not at your home crying. She's always wandering the f******, like, side of the woods or some s*** when you see her.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: On the road or some crap. Hitchhiking.

Cristina: Yeah. She's always. It's about her life because she's always based on a real person who died in a real tragedy.

Jack: But that's when we tell the story. Like if we break it down to what this really might be and we compare it to the banshee.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: We have two different things.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: They're similar.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: But they're not the same. Now, everything else we've discussed, I think would fall into one of these two categories.

Cristina: The white lady or the Banshee.

Jack: The white lady or the banshee. I think those are the only two real creatures we've heard about so far. And then the story equivalents. So we've heard of either the Chupacabra or the Yeti and everything else. Like, let's say the f****** creature in the middle of this place. And it's a shapeshifter. Okay. You mean the Chupacabra.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Or, well, this. Bigfoot. No, you mean the Yeti.

Cristina: So then Lilith fits more with a white lady.

Jack: Lilith fits more with the white lady. Yes. Or Lilith might be her own thing, though she might be unrelated.

Cristina: Okay. She is a ghost and she's killing kids.

Jack: It sounds like she's Intentional.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But then based on the story, she would be the White Lady. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cristina: He's a white lady. It's not the ones that we're about to talk about, but the ones from Mexico. Or not Mexico, but the South American one that we were talking about. She. It sounds like she wants to kill kids too, because she killed her own kids and she wants to take a ghost with her so she can go to the afterlife kind of situation then.

Jack: Man. It's interesting because it defers quite heavily with the lady in White from North America. She's not a. The lady in white isn't a woman with children at all. As far as we know. She usually dies in her teenage years. Maybe like 17 or 18.

Cristina: She's always young.

Jack: Yeah. And you take her to the house. She was just looking for a ride. She didn't do anything weird to you or anything. Just took her home and she forgot something in the car. And then you take it back to find out that's impossible. She's been dead.

Cristina: Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I do remember a connection to her and the Banshee, though. The original version of the Woman in White.

Jack: Right.

Cristina: There's a popular medieval legend about the Woman in White where she appears in the house of a family member who is soon to die. She's seen as the ghost of the deceased ancestor of that person. That sounds exactly like the man.

Jack: She and the lady in White.

Cristina: And yes.

Jack: She's feeling both. Rose. She's feeling both somebody who's already dead showing up and sort of an omen of death at the same time.

Cristina: Yeah. Like now she's not that version, but this. The older version of the original. The origin. Is that better? Origin.

Jack: Now, this is what's crazy. We have the lady in wine too many places. Obviously, she's not one person. Meaning. But it's also problematic to say that there's a bunch of this exact same circumstance happening. Coincidence would be too exaggerated at this point. There'd be thousands of the same scenario.

Cristina: But there are. It feels like there are.

Jack: Well, let's be reasonable about that. Obviously, the story is being told the same. But whatever they're telling the story about.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Is one thing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So, like, just being reasonable about it. There's a creature, not a person.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Who seems like a person. Could identifiably be a person. But we could also say the same thing about a succubus or a vampire. They look like people.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But they're not mermaid like. It looks like a person, but it's not, you know, Siren.

Cristina: Yes, it.

Jack: It's not, but it looks like it.

Cristina: Okay, so these fairy ghosts are not ghosts, but more fairy, like for their own creature.

Jack: Well, depends on whether they're. Well, I guess we, we at this point we'd be leaving the fairy definition of Ireland fairies and be talking about maybe not necessarily fairies, because western fairies in our region of Western is more like. I guess. No, those aren't even f******. I guess it would be Asian fairies that we here in the United States envision are little people with wings.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: So it's wrong to say fairy because whether we're talking Irish or North American, we're kind of off about what the f*** we're talking about. But it is some sort of entity.

Cristina: Yes. That's why I feel like the Irish one is the closest, because it is an entity.

Jack: But it's not a fairy tale.

Cristina: It's not a fairy.

Jack: It's not a fairy. Doesn't fit the description of fairy. Which are little people.

Cristina: Well, they don't. They're not always little people. Just a lot of the time. They're little people a lot of the time. But that doesn't mean they're always like that just fits the story. So they mentioned that one the most, maybe to make them all seem the same.

Jack: Got you.

Cristina: But that could have been, you know, like the story could have been different before. Like maybe fairy people did. Were our size before.

Jack: Yes, yes.

Cristina: They only shrunk in Ireland. They could be spread out. Spread out and just as tall as.

Jack: You know, their normal woman in white and the banshee might be the two variants with Lilith as an exception. That is she is a creature of her own. Or the woman in white. She's the only out of the women in white equivalents. She stands out the most. But she still fits the suit in some categories. While the banshee seems to be a whole other s***. Just warning. And then we have this weird cross pollination of that one event of warning.

Cristina: And also being dead. Yeah. So I don't know more than one creature. One creature.

Jack: I think two creatures, bare minimum. I think three creatures max.

Cristina: Three creatures max.

Jack: I think we're talking about two to three different creatures. And everything else is a regional variant.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: People just telling the story a different way.

Cristina: Mm. Probably. Yes. Yes, I think so.

Jack: Interesting. And they look like people is one of the characteristics.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: They usually embody somebody who's dead. They aren't somebody who's dead.

Cristina: No.

Jack: They appear to appear to be the person who said, if you're a Woman in white.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So whatever that creature is always shows up in white. Even if that person was probably not even wearing white. Maybe there's something about their transformation into that person that only allows that to be the color.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So they always look to be wearing white. Thus the woman in white, even if she died in a blue dress, when.

Cristina: You see her, it might be the same dress, but not white.

Jack: Exactly. Maybe they can't imitate these colors. Yeah, maybe we are talking about some sort of shapeshifter that can only embody somebody dead.

Cristina: Oh, you think a shapeshifter? But then that's more fairy, like, because they're very shape shifter too, like.

Jack: Yeah. So they could definitely embody somebody who's only dead. And that's why the story is always the same. Oh, no, it's not possible. And somehow they get the memories of the person too, because they often ask to go to the same place that the person used to live.

Cristina: Yes, Yes. A lot of them are the same place.

Jack: They're hunting the children of people similar.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Those that are doing that are feeding. So we can say the same creature two different instances. In one case, they still have the memories of the person somehow.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: That being said, all of that being said, maybe the lady in white. Holy crap. Isn't even on the side. We forget to keep talking about this, but maybe they're from the shadow freaking realm.

Cristina: That's where the fairies are from. That's where the banshees from. That's why I keep saying she's a banshee.

Jack: Maybe we're seeing. Maybe she's not taking the form of anything. Maybe we're just seeing her shadow form. Her.

Cristina: You know?

Jack: Yeah, her. This side form from the shadow realm.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Interesting. And it might appear as this person or that person. Or maybe using that energy from when.

Cristina: We see her feed, though it matches up with Lilith in that it's children.

Jack: Yes. So there are creatures over there feeding on children from over here?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: That's a strange one. So far, I don't think there's any banshee eating children, though. But when it comes to women in.

Jack: White, maybe Lilith is the first. Similar to, like, Dracula.

Cristina: I mean. Yeah. Like she has children. They're demons. But maybe they're not really demons the way we think of demons.

Jack: Maybe she spawned whatever creature the women in white are.

Cristina: Yes. Yes. Oh, you know, that's so crazy. There's a place, though, that there's like 300 stories of the women in white, which, like, they're called. They're actually Called the Maidens of the name of the location of the place. Because there's so many.

Jack: Fascinating. So there might be a breeding ground.

Cristina: That's so crazy now.

Jack: It's not a breeding ground on this.

Cristina: Side, but it seems like it because they do. There are stories of the real ladies that died. Well that match up.

Jack: You know, the creatures aren't breeding on this side. The creatures manifest where there's energy to manifest through, as we've established. And if all these people have died in this area, there is more than enough sorrow and fear.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: To go around. And so they can heavily manifest. So haunted areas are just places with enough energy for these creatures to manifest most vividly.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And the more haunted you are.

Cristina: That's why there's so many women in white in a lot of places. But in this specific, in eastern Russia is where they're at, where there's like a ridiculous amount. It says like 350 of them.

Jack: So then the question would be in that area that they're in, was there some sort of tragedy? Is it considered particularly scary place or a haunted place place or something along those lines that could allow there. We know emotions allow shadow beings to manifest.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Specifically fear.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Is the most powerful of them all.

Cristina: That place is scary.

Jack: Are people scared of that place?

Cristina: I don't know if people are.

Jack: Because it could be self perpetuating. It could be. There was one story, people got a little freaked out about that story. But the fear surrounding every time people went through there allowed two or three to manifest. But then the experience is multiplied because their experience, more people had the same story to tell, which then created more fears. People would go through there, which then in return allowed more fear to linger and more to form. And little by little, anyone have to.

Cristina: Die for these things to be born.

Jack: Maybe just the first lady. Somebody saw something, maybe the right person. Here's what usually happens. Right. Somebody who doesn't know the person goes through, sees the lady in white. There was enough energy, enough here. Whatever case might be, pick the lady in white up. Either their children die or they take the lady to her home, quote home, unquote. And her father tells you the same bullshit. Sorry, she's been there. A little weird event that happened.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But maybe this is the one time that the father was the one driving down the street and he sees his f****** daughter and he freaks out and she gets in the car, he's like, what the f***? Or somebody who does know her.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: A family member or something like that. Bob. Her cousin, who didn't know and came the visitor or some s*** drives her to the house. Now the fear is so immense because I saw her.

Cristina: Everyone that knows her is seeing her.

Jack: We saw her. We saw her. She was there. We saw her. This place is haunted. That must have been a demon or something. Now the fear is real. Real.

Cristina: That's why certain locations are haunted. Because everyone's seeing her there. But only like it just took one person seeing her there for a bunch of people to see her there. And then she became a real thing there.

Jack: People have seen the lady in white in different places and they're unrelated. So it's not as scary. It had to be. In order for this place to be of mass ground, some series of events had to lead to the amount of fear that there is relative. Because otherwise every place would have that same amount.

Cristina: So then something else must have happened.

Jack: I'm telling you how it happened. It was somebody who might have known her.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Opposite to a stranger. A stranger picked her up. They were only scared after they were told the story. Somebody who knows or sees her. Holy s***. I was at the funeral.

Cristina: Yes. Okay.

Jack: Now you're like, I'm never going down the street again.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And you had to go down there one day for whatever reason, but you didn't see her, but you went through there so panicked the person behind you saw her.

Cristina: Have we ever talked about the haunted road like this though? Like maybe that's why it's so freaking.

Jack: Haunted instead of being a space anomaly.

Cristina: Yeah. What if it's not a space anomaly but some weird energy thing is happening? Like this place?

Jack: Definitely could be. It could. Well we've established that maybe it's not the streets, that the street itself that's haunted, but the forest, the woods themselves are haunted. We just didn't know what we meant by haunted. And what we meant by haunted is creatures from the shadow realm.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Cut through because of fear.

Cristina: So there's no such thing as haunted in Linton Road? Yeah, there's a hoarder of creatures in there, but not real creatures, shadow creatures.

Jack: They're real creatures. They're just from the shadow realm.

Cristina: Yes. And in this place in Russia, man, that's so crazy. 350. This is a lot of ghosts. Yeah.

Jack: So I think that's how it happened. It self perpetuated. Somebody saw it, freaked out. It was real fear. Like way more fear than just getting told the story. You saw the person you know is dead. You tell they're like, no f****** way, you're losing your mind. But now they're kind of freaked out. Like maybe he's telling the truth. Rolling down the same street. You see her too? Oh, s***.

Cristina: Yeah. It's interesting because none of these stories, it's random lady. Like, you have a real person who's died or supposedly this person really died.

Jack: I think whatever. Creed. I think they're all. I think we could call them all. D*** it. The problem is we don't have a name for it. The question is, is it different from a banshee? And I think it is. I think the lady in white is different from the banshee.

Cristina: But we can agree they're both shadow people.

Jack: I think they're both shadow creatures. Yeah.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: I think they're both shadow creatures, and I think the banshee is the harmless one.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: The banshee is probably the more scary one because it's screaming. Cries, yes. Like, you'll be way more horrified to encounter a banshee, but you're way more in danger with the lady in white. The question is, what creature is the lady in white? Because we know the banshee is some sort of warning creature.

Cristina: Yeah. While the lady in white is just sometimes. Sometimes wants to eat some children. There's some, though, ghost stories I just remembered about. She wants to share gold with people. I don't know why. She has like a gold, like, treasures.

Jack: Oh, no, that's a trap.

Cristina: That's. No. Well, it depends because sometimes she's like, you could have half, and if you're greedy, then death on you. But if you listen to her, she'll. She'll really give it to you. I don't know if there's one stories that there are traps, but the ones that I read, she's honest until you're greedy and then you're dead.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: But I don't know how that relates. But that's just an interesting thing I remembered about some of the white lady stories or the lady in white stories. There's another ghost that's similar to the lady in white, but she's not the lady in white. She's a ghost in Nigerian and African schools. She haunts the schools and like, the places the kids are sleeping. Like the boarding schools. That's what they're called. Whatever. And her name is Madame Koikoi. Well, she haunts the schools and she wears red heels. And she is popular in Nigeria, Ghana and South Africa. In Nigeria, there are two origin stories for her. In the first story of Lady Kokoi, she was a beautiful teacher. She liked to be her students. And she was fired for slapping a Student. And one day when she was going home, a car hit her and she died. And then she swore revenge on the school and the students for some reason. And then after she died, I guess while she was dying. And then she haunts the school.

Jack: How is she related to anything? Why did we learn about this one?

Cristina: Because she's a ghost lady. I guess that's how she relates.

Jack: There's a lady? Million other ghost ladies. How do you pick this one?

Cristina: I don't remember. Cuz she's really famous. Like the white lady in white. She's famous everywhere.

Jack: Right.

Cristina: This lady's famous everywhere around Africa.

Jack: Yeah, but the lady in white and the Banshee are heavily related in that they're both women, both crying, both surrounding the concept of death.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: This is just some random lady who died.

Cristina: Yes. Who kills her children. Which is like those ghost stories where they. She kills children.

Jack: Like the white lady in white.

Cristina: Yeah, the lady in white kills children. Except this lady's killing school children because of her death.

Jack: In a specific school?

Cristina: In specific schools. Yes.

Jack: No, in a specific school. Or does she like swear revenge on the board of education?

Cristina: No, no, no. I guess depending on the school you're at, she's haunting your school because that's how spread out her story is. So.

Jack: So her story is too specific. In the case of the lady in white, there is variance.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Here is the same story.

Cristina: Yes. With different origin stories, though just like little changes to them, but which makes.

Jack: This one sound way less likely.

Cristina: Okay. Even though they're all almost the same. Although one of them, the students, killed her by accident. They were tired of her beating them up, so they beat her up themselves. And one of them killed her with her own shoe. And then she started killing them off one by one like a horror movie.

Jack: So Final Destination.

Cristina: Yeah. So that was pretty interesting. And then there's these other things which I think relate more to the Banshee. And that's why I looked this up. But it doesn't. I don't think we'll find any relations with the women. And why? Because there's these things called psychopomp. I think that's how you pronounce it. And it means the guide of spirits. They're the creatures, spirits, angels or deities. And many different cultures and religions that guide the deceased from earth to the afterlife. Because we don't know if the Banshee is doing that.

Jack: Maybe you mean reapers.

Cristina: Yeah, I guess reapers is a version of it. Because there's many different versions of these things that just. They come when you're dead and they take you to the next place. And who says the banshee's not doing that? Like, maybe they're just crying until you die and then they walk away with you.

Jack: We don't know you aren't dying when a banshee shows up. Banshee's crying because somebody died and they're letting you know.

Cristina: No, but they're crying until that person is dead though. Like why? What if they stopped crying because they're now taking the soul to the next place?

Jack: That'd be weird. Because if somebody's dying far away, they're with you while that person far away is dying. So they're warning you about a person they're not around.

Cristina: Well, they're taking it as a warning. They're not. Like it might not really be a warning to you. They just happen to live where you're living. Like they maybe didn't want to leave Ireland because they love Ireland. It's their home.

Jack: No, no, no, no, no. I feel like you totally missed everything I just said. The ban. She warns you about somebody dying or about to die. See, regardless of where the person who's dying or about to die might be.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: She's around the people that would care. Oh, okay, so she's not around the dying person.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: She. How she delivering the soul if she's nowhere near the dying person?

Cristina: No, I guess not.

Jack: So she would be just like a warning system.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And then the reaper is a deliverer.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: This other creature.

Cristina: Yeah, but the reaper, I guess I'm sure there's another creature that's she.

Jack: I think there's a system of creatures that function in non harmful ways, as well as a sisters and ecosystem.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: As well as the system of creatures that function in exclusively harmful ways. Like a wet church.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Which is vicious and dangerous for no f****** reason. So I'm thinking, yeah, I'm thinking that the banshee in this case is harmless, as is the reaper.

Cristina: Yeah. He's just there to collect the soul.

Jack: Yeah. I think those are delivery beings to some degree.

Cristina: One example of the guide of souls that I like. They, they depict them as animals besides of spirits and creatures and stuff like that. They also see them as animals that are warning, I mean, that are there for the dead. In different cultures. It could be horses, deers, dogs, ravens, crows, vultures. There's a bunch of different animals. But the one that I think is the most famous of the animals are birds. Like if you see a huge amount of birds waiting outside a home of the dying, you're like they're here for that person. Well, I think that's the most famous cyberpunk.

Jack: It's well known for the crows.

Cristina: The crow. Okay. Yeah.

Jack: So crows are considered an omen of death, as well as black cats.

Cristina: Yeah. So those are the animals that are gonna, I guess, take the soul with them.

Jack: Interesting that you would say that, because in both the case of crows and the case of cats, they're usually not being noisy or anything. They're just waiting.

Cristina: They're just waiting.

Jack: They're just waiting. Specifically cats. Black cats. A black cat sitting on you while you are in a hospital is a bad sign.

Cristina: Okay, that's interesting.

Jack: Yeah. Like it's about to wait for your soul.

Cristina: Actually, I've heard of dogs, too. Of dogs in the hospitals would do the same. Like they would go to the person who's about to die.

Jack: Yeah. Before they die. Like they know ahead of time you can smell the death.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Well, maybe they're not smelling it. Maybe that's not any normal dog.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Or if these deliverers can take over.

Cristina: Creatures, that's possible too.

Jack: Maybe it is a normal dog. Until the liver takes over its body and patiently waits.

Cristina: Mm. What do you think of that? That's pretty interesting.

Jack: So it's a possession that's not violent?

Cristina: No, it's very peaceful in a way. Like the death. Or hopefully the death is as peaceful. Yeah.

Jack: Interesting. Interesting. The shadow realm has quite a couple of weird things in there. We got to keep these investigations going. I must see if I can catch. Like I said, with more information that we get, maybe catching a banshee becomes possible.

Cristina: Oh, snap.

Jack: Using science, using any means, we might come across any information based on what we learned. Right. I'll know more where to find a banshee as well as, apparently, I gotta find a woman in white to see if that is a creature of its own. The banshee doesn't seem harmful. The woman in white seems dangerous.

Cristina: What if she's the bad version of the banshee, like we had? Did we decide to scrap that idea?

Jack: No, I. I know what you're talking about, and I was thinking about it earlier, which was that maybe the woman in white is a type of banshee that has become feral. A feral banshee.

Cristina: That's what you were calling them. Feral. Right.

Jack: But the only difference is that we don't know that a banshee has lost anybody or that the banshee has even died. The banshee might not never have been human.

Cristina: No, I don't think so.

Jack: Then Again, the lady in white might just be inhabiting humans or looking like humans that were once alive.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: So they might not necessarily have ever been humans either. It's still. They sound so different either way.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Like we can see how a wet judge and a wendingo are the same.

Cristina: But they don't look the same either.

Jack: They behave so similarly.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: While these two. Like, they behave so similarly and similar to werewolf, almost.

Cristina: Yeah, There's.

Jack: There's real tight connections there.

Cristina: Well, in.

Jack: While here, there's the big discrepancy in behavior. Like, big. The only commonality is the crying. And not all the women in white cry.

Cristina: No. But a lot of them, I think, do.

Jack: Yeah. So there are some. And the person might have actually died. That's. I guess that's another similarity. They think the person who died became the banshee.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: They think it could just be that this creature is taking the shape of somebody dead.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: To then warn them of death.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So I guess there are some similarities to look at.

Cristina: So you might find a connection that we're not even thinking about right now.

Jack: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. There's a line I'm not even thinking about.

Cristina: Yep. Interesting. The psychotrop. In ancient Egypt, they had a God named Anebus. Do you remember him?

Jack: Right, he's the sort of Egyptian God of death or some s***.

Cristina: Yes. He's the. He's a guide of souls.

Jack: Oh, yeah. He's a spirit guide. He's actually not the guide. He's not the death bringer. No, he's the soul deliverer. He's the soul deliverer who delivers it to. Who's gonna weigh it.

Cristina: Yes. Yes, that's exactly. So he's a. Whatever these are called again.

Jack: Reapers.

Cristina: Yep. Reapers. I guess reapers are easier word than calling them psychotomps.

Jack: Maybe it's the same thing. Maybe we're literally talking about the same thing.

Cristina: Yeah. In the Greek mythology, there's the ferryman. Sharon. I don't know his name, but I know the Greek. You know, the ferryman from Hades, that you have to go on his boat to go to the.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: River. Across the river.

Jack: The river Styx.

Cristina: Yeah. Yeah. So when you die, a family member puts a coin on you so that when your spirit goes there, you could pay. And if you don't pay, you got to stay there a hundred years and wait again to cross. So. And then in Norse mythology, the Valkyries are choosing their favorite warriors to go to Valhalla to be part of Odin's army, because he's preparing for Ragnarok So he's building this army. So they're taking the best warriors for that. And then in modern day, the Jewish reaper is the archangel Samuel, whose row is both as the angel of death and the accuser. I don't know if you heard of that archangel.

Jack: No.

Cristina: And then in many cultures, there's the shaman who both plays the. That person that takes the soul to the dead, but also helps bring people to. Helps in giving birth to people. Like, I guess he would be there when you're. You're giving birth to your child.

Jack: The shaman.

Cristina: The shaman.

Jack: Interesting that I've never heard that name for it. But a very old version of reapers that I've heard are the same, and they're represented with the numbers 1 and 9. And the goal is that they bring their soul delivery in every direction.

Cristina: Yes. Well, the shamans are like that. Yes, exactly like that.

Jack: So the reaper I was thinking about this whole time was a shaman.

Cristina: Yep. Wow. And then in the Philippine culture, they think that the ancestor spirits are the ones that are the reapers. When a person who's dying calls out to call someone's name that's, I guess, dead. Like if you called your mother's name while you were dying, then it's because your mom is there to take you to the next life.

Jack: Interesting.

Cristina: And that's their thing. And that's pretty interesting because a lot of people probably say someone who's dead already name or whatever. But in. And In Christianity, there's St. Peter, Michael the Archangel and Jesus are thought of as the reaper. Yep, yep, yep.

Jack: Anyways, we're out of time, and that is definitely fascinating. I didn't know how closely related to banshees the women in white were, but there's definitely some lines crossing there. So as we go and find ourselves one of these s****, we got a experiment. Experiment. We got to find out. Because if we find two different things, that's crazy, but maybe they are related the way a wendingo wetcha and a werewolf are.

Cristina: Yes. Like, it's. It's gotta be. It's there. Like we can, like, glimpse at it. We can't really see it as well as those creatures, but it's like there's a tiny glimpse of.

Jack: There's some connection.

Cristina: Connection?

Jack: Yeah, they're either similar or the same.

Cristina: In different ways or like they're different types of the same thing.

Jack: Like a beaver and a badger.

Cristina: Yes. Oh, that's a good example. If you guys heard the shadow people story, not the shadow people. Which episode was that with the beaver and the badger?

Jack: And that was the Shadow Realm. Yeah.

Cristina: Okay. Yes. You guys check that episode out.

Jack: Yeah. Interesting.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: If you guys are interested in things of this nature, episodes of this type, there are many, many, many. We're building our understanding of the Shadow Realm as we move forward in order to capture some of these f****** on this side and find out what the h*** is going on with that.

Cristina: It feels like we're playing Pokemon.

Jack: Yeah. Catch them all.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And so, I mean, our prison is getting nice and packed. I like it. I mean, it's 95% just like reptilians.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But that's fine. Whatever. It's like, it's realistically 99% reptilian. It's a f****** planet worth of Reptilians and random s*** we added to it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So it's like really, like 99.99% reptilians.

Cristina: That's a lot of Reptilians.

Jack: Yeah, but we got other s*** in there. Cat people and our guards who are subhumans. Oh, there's a s*** ton of cat people.

Cristina: Yeah. And roach people. I'm not sure. No, no, that's rare because we killed.

Jack: We destroyed a lot of them. Anything that was left was just not on planet.

Cristina: Yeah. So a few roach people, but they probably don't. They multiply like crazy. Yeah.

Jack: They're probably building an army.

Cristina: So. Yeah.

Jack: Yeah, there's probably war gonna happen at some point, but we got Reptilians to toss at them.

Cristina: Yep.

Jack: We're ready. We're getting ready. We just got to brainwash everybody we got.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And we might have, like, ethereal beings on our side. Whatever. Anyways, if you guys want to hear more of those episodes, you can find the Shadow Realm episode. There's a Shadow Piece People episode, which is part of Groundhog Day episode, which you found out about all this s*** in the first place. And some Adrenochrome episodes and s*** of that nature to get caught up on what we're talking about.

Cristina: If this lawsuit and the Ireland episode, the Irish folklore.

Jack: Yes. So you can find all of those things@graythoughts.info or on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere you get your podcasts.

Cristina: And you can reach us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and TikTok @JustConvopod.

Jack: Yes. And remember to subscribe and to rate. And if you feel so inclined, review.

Cristina: The show and let someone who might like this show know about it.

Jack: Yes, word of mouth. Very important. Find people who watch that garbage f****** show. Ghost. Ghost Adventures, where the guy gets that super Buff, jacked up guy who could, like, knock out a ghost in one shot.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Is just scared of everything he ever sees. See, if you know people who like that, then send them over here like this, tell them about this show, and they'll tune in and realize, oh, that's what they saw over there in Ghost Adventures.

Cristina: That's why they were that scared.

Jack: That's why they were that scared. Or that guy's a b****. That is a total coward. So, yeah, no, you could do that. Tell your friends, be like, hey, you like ghosts? I gotta show about ghosts for you.

Cristina: Ghostbusters. Yes, this has been the Just Conversation podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening.

Jack: Bye. He's scooping the poop.

Cristina: Who's poop?

Jack: He's scooping his own poop.

Cristina: His own pool.

Jack: He says it. He's scoop of the poop. Scoop of the poopa de poop. Scooping the poop that you scoop. He's scooping the poop that.

Cristina: I don't know if that's right.

Jack: Amen. We know he's scooping poop.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And we know the poops being scooped.

Cristina: Definitely.

Jack: In order for this poop to be scooped, there must have been poop.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So somebody pooped. No other characters are mentioned in the story other than the fact that he's scooping poop.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: There's no cats, there's no dogs. There's no. No other person. Nothing else is mentioned other than the fact that he, the singular character, is.

Cristina: Cooping poop, but he doesn't say it's his poop. What if it was just poop?

Jack: It's not. It's from where? There's no other characters in the story. No other characters in the story. There's one character.

Cristina: Mention of someone else.

Jack: No, there's one character in the story. Him scooping the poop. Meaning it's his poopy scooping. Okay, this is writing 101.

Cristina: Okay. It's his poop.

Jack: It's not a magical poop that popped out of nowhere and just exists without a beginning and end. How do you know it's just always existed there?

Cristina: Yeah, that's why he's always scooping it, because it keeps reappearing.

Jack: No, the song is about the one time he pooped and then he scooped his poop.

Cristina: Just one moment.

Jack: Yes. It's about. Isn't that all songs are about a moment or an event, a series of events related to each other? If it's not one moment. But this sounds like a song about one moment where he was just scooping poop.

Cristina: Good morning. Good morning. The Just Conversation podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by great dots.info art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McAllister. With social media managed by Amber Black.