Rambling 145: Gods vs Death Note

What constitutes something being godly? Must it be immortal? Omniscient? Have created the universe or reality? Been born of a god? And could any of these instances survive having their name written in the Death Note? The duo unpacks the definition of a god and puts them on a 1v1 with Light Yagami and his notorious Death Note

+Episode Details

Topics Discussed

• Death Note
• Gods of Death
• Gods of Destruction
• Zeno
• Jehovah
• Zeus
• Odin
• Advanced Aliens
• Angels vs Demi-Gods
• The Nothing
• Omniscience
• The Grim Reaper
• Defining Godliness

Our Links:

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+Transcript

Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.

Jack: Going live in 5, 4.

Cristina: What does live mean?

Jack: Welcome to the Just Conversation Podcast, the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas in childish ways. I am your host, Jack.

Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.

Jack: And if you haven't yet, remember to hit that subscribe button to get notified the second new episodes are released.

Cristina: Also, this show is most enjoyable with a listening partner to share opinions and ideas on topics we discuss.

Jack: Yeah, so scream at somebody.

Cristina: Scream.

Jack: That's all I gotta say.

Cristina: Scream about the show or just scream.

Jack: No, just scream. Don't know.

Cristina: Just scream and they'll know.

Jack: Don't know. You just run up to somebody and you go. And they'll be like, oh, right, I forgot to listen to the show. Or if you just. Ah, wait, the Just Conversation podcast exists as a thing.

Cristina: They'll just understand.

Jack: They'll just understand. You just have to say it with that in mind. It's kind of like Death Note where you got to write the name with the right person in mind. Because somebody else has the name, that person has a potential of dying. So if you know what they look like and then you use their name.

Cristina: If you don't know what the person looks like, but you just know their name, no one dies. Right.

Jack: If you don't know what the person looks like and you don't use it, I don't know.

Cristina: Because the point is you have to know and then that person dies. If you're just writing a name down that's very popular, no one's gonna die.

Jack: Yeah, I think it needs a name and a face. Right.

Cristina: But if you know the face and you use a fake name, why does it matter? Why is it that exact? Because if you have the person in mind, if that's what's really important, like why do they care if you have their name right or wrong? Like what if I wrote down your nickname? Why should it matter if I know who I'm thinking of when I'm writing it? To kill you or whatever?

Jack: I don't know. I don't know. It's weird because the name is man made.

Cristina: Exactly. That's a weird thing for the gods to care about.

Jack: I don't know. Maybe there's inherent names that people are given before they come to life and their parents just know inherently, this is what this person is called, but the name was given to them beforehand. Yeah, that's why you need a name and a face.

Cristina: Yeah, I said gods. But what are they they are called gods. Right.

Jack: Shinigami are gods of death.

Cristina: Gods of death.

Jack: Okay, different to gods of destruction.

Cristina: Who's a God of destruction? There's a God of destruction on the show?

Jack: No, but there's Beerus from Dragon Ball Z. Oh, okay. He's God of destruction.

Cristina: Oh, yes.

Jack: The question is, could a Shinigami kill Beerus with a simple notebook?

Cristina: Definitely.

Jack: The OV Man. Here's a problem. That notebook is so overpowered. Yeah, like light versus anybody.

Cristina: If he knows.

Jack: Yeah, yeah. All he needs is Misa Amane by his side. Yeah, she can see their literal name.

Cristina: Yeah, we'll know Beerus's whole name. If that's not his whole name, write it down. It's done.

Jack: It's over.

Cristina: Yeah, you can kill a cat God. I mean, God of destruction.

Jack: You can kind of kill anybody. Now my question is, can the notebooks. Can the Death Note be used to kill Zeno? Zeno creates the universe, which is to say, Zeno and Arceus are, in theory, the same thing.

Cristina: Who's Arceus?

Jack: Arceus is the poke God.

Cristina: Oh, okay. But can the death. What are those creatures called again?

Jack: The Shinigami.

Cristina: Shin Megamis. Write down each other's name to kill them?

Jack: I don't know. I know that Light was told he cannot write a Shinigami name. It would do nothing.

Cristina: Could a Shinigami do that?

Jack: I don't know.

Cristina: Because if they can't, then maybe they can't kill Beerus or any other God.

Jack: Interesting. But Beerus is an alien.

Cristina: But he's called a God of destruction. But he's not an actual God.

Jack: Yeah, he's a literal being on a planet. Yes, sort of. Yeah. Because Vegeta just became a God. It's a. It's a power degree.

Cristina: Oh, okay. But Zeno is a true God. Or is that just another power?

Jack: This is what's weird, because Zeno seems to be himself an alien.

Cristina: They all seem like aliens. Yeah, it's like the dragons are aliens to me.

Jack: No, the dragons are magic.

Cristina: Are they?

Jack: Yeah, because they were made by a creature.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: And then the dragon, for example, the regular dragon is made by Kami, the first dragon. He made the dragon balls. And then so he's like power. And then he comes from that power. And he has the power to grant wishes, which is borderline.

Cristina: That's the universe one.

Jack: I don't know where the f*** that came from.

Cristina: Someone had to make the balls for that.

Jack: Maybe Zeno.

Cristina: Oh, yeah. If he's behind making the planets he's made, he made everything yeah, in theory.

Jack: He made everything.

Cristina: Okay. He could probably die, I don't know. Because he's an alien.

Jack: Yeah, that's the argument. He's not. He's God in the. In that he made everything else. Yes, but he's not God in that he is immortal.

Cristina: We don't. How is he not immortal?

Jack: He's. He could probably die. Here's. Okay, there's two xenos, right? Can one xeno kill the other? That's the argument. Okay, is he immortal? Well, there's two of them already. Meaning he exists within time.

Cristina: He does.

Jack: He exists within time. And anything within time can eventually expire. He doesn't exist outside of time. He's just an alien. In order to be God, you have to exist outside of time. That is point number one, forever.

Cristina: But he can only. It's not time that restricts him, I think it's just the reality, Right? No, but then how did the other one get there?

Jack: Yeah, there's two. Yeah, and there's from. They're from different times. Yeah, One hopped with them from the past as the universe was collapsing. Of course, he was the one who collapsed the universe. Yes, but he was in a different timeline where he. It wasn't the same him. It wasn't the same him. It's him. It's him from a different timeline. Yeah, and then he met the future him or the previous him or whatever.

Cristina: Yes, the other him.

Jack: So he doesn't exist everywhere at all times? No, he is not omniscient.

Cristina: Oh, no, he's not.

Jack: Okay, because if it was in theory, if you're God and you exist everywhere all at the same time, I can talk to you now. Take a time machine a hundred years in the past, talk to you, and you would remember me talking to you in the future, because there's no difference.

Cristina: Do the. What are they called? The Q from Star Trek?

Jack: Yes, they can remember you in the present, past and future because to them time doesn't matter. They're more God than Zeno. Boom.

Cristina: Were they once human? What are they? No, they're just being. We. Not. We don't even know what they look like. They're just. They appear to us what we look like because we're looking at.

Jack: Yes, but you did explain that they were once just like humans. Ah, that's the problem.

Cristina: But they're not humans. Or they. Were they humans or were they.

Jack: There's no such, like, human thing that there were. That there were other humans.

Cristina: Like aliens. Yeah, they were aliens that were similar to humans. I mean.

Jack: Yes, yes. They were just mortals.

Cristina: Yeah. That's why. I mean, and they're.

Jack: They're kind of still mortals because Q was going to be executed.

Cristina: Oh, yes. But he says their death is different from.

Jack: Yes, it means something different, but it's still a thing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It's like when we talk about Jehovah. Right. And we're talking about, did God die? What does that mean?

Cristina: What does that mean?

Jack: Like, okay, first let's talk about time scale. God can live throughout the entire existence of humanity. And that was a blip. That was an afternoon for him.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: When we smash two atoms together, a universe could happen in there. We're talking recreating the Big Bang. And in there, all the same particles that create our universe exist. There could be galaxies and planets and universe happens and life happens within this one infinitesimally small point, and we would never even know that a universe came to be and ceased to exist in the big blink of an eye. Smaller fractions of a second that we can count or fathom. Yeah, but we outlived it, and it was a fraction of a second to us. But there were entire lives lived in that one moment.

Cristina: And that would be what God is.

Jack: Well, God would be in our position where it's like, okay, our entire universe.

Cristina: Well, that God can die.

Jack: Then the theory is, if that's an accurate depiction, then God could die.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: It would just be really, really, really a timescale. Exactly. It's beyond infinity to us. Yeah, but to God, it's a normal lifespan.

Cristina: Yes. But he's still God. Or he's not the ultimate God that you imagine. The last level God. He's just a demigod God.

Jack: Well, this creates a problem because if is. Is. If there's an ultimate God, then there's.

Cristina: An end, then there's an end, then.

Jack: There'S an end to things. That means there's a biggest size. Oh, you get my point. So the question is, is there or is there always something bigger, greater and more complicated?

Cristina: Yes, I'm going with yes, I think so.

Jack: Right.

Cristina: Just keeps going up.

Jack: Because then the argument would be Zeno was made by something.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: He exists within a space that doesn't make sense to us, but he is just one of the many within that space. My argument is Jehovah, the Christian God, is either one of many gods, including Zeus as one of them and including Odin as one of them. Where all these different gods are actual gods, more God than the demigods we're familiar with, like Thor or Ares, or does Hercules count Lucifer or these other really powerful beings that aren't omniscient. But also these beings are only omniscient by our point of view.

Cristina: The gods.

Jack: The gods I just mentioned are only omniscient by our point of view. But they're all equal to each other. Meaning not any of them is better. They're all equal somehow.

Cristina: Yeah, we just wouldn't understand.

Jack: Yes. And they exist in an ecosystem in which there is something greater.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Like, I'm not saying Odin is related to Jehovah. I'm saying they're just people within whatever reality they exist.

Cristina: Or they're just different aliens from each other.

Jack: Well, in this argument, they would be aliens. Or the concept alien doesn't make sense. But they're not the top. Yeah, because there would be no top. They're just the products of whatever universe they're in. And then that universe has a bunch of the thing that made them that's also just one of many.

Cristina: They probably have their own gods, if they.

Jack: Yeah, maybe they each worship somebody different. Or they all worship the same God that said, make your own. Like, you're only really living, existing accurately. You only exist accurately if you make civilizations. And so they all worship the same thing. So Jehovah made civilizations and Odin made civilizations, and Zeus made civilizations because following the path of he who made us.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And they preached make civilization. And the three of us made civilization.

Cristina: Yes. They made mad crap. It wasn't just humans, I guess. Like, if the angels are something, then what are they? Are they aliens to us?

Jack: No, no, no, no. The angels is just the name for the demigods Jehovah made.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: The same way that, like Zeus and you know.

Cristina: Yeah. They're his group of people that he hangs out with.

Jack: Yeah, yeah. It's all. He just wanted a special name. They're called angels.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: But it's the same. It's the same concept. They all fit the same roles. Raphael is what, the. The health angel of health and love or some s***. And there's Michael of war. Like, what's the difference in Michael and Ares? They both wore things.

Cristina: Yeah, you know, same s***. Different names.

Jack: Different names. So then are we to say Zeno is less than Jehovah, Odin and Zeus, or Zeno is equal to Jehovah, Odin and Zeus? My argument would be what? He's more than.

Cristina: He's more.

Jack: He's more than.

Cristina: Why? It sounds like he's the same because he made life. If that's all that they had to do.

Jack: Well, the Greek made were made by Zeus. The what is the Irish or something like that were made by Odin or whatever region that's from. And the Italians were made by Jehovah. That all exists within our planet?

Cristina: Well, we don't really know. I mean, each God claims to have made everyone.

Jack: Yes. But we know it began and all the events took place in a small area.

Cristina: Oh, so you. So fair enough that they're all lying.

Jack: Yeah. I think when we say Zeus, we're talking about two different people. I mean, not Zeus. When we say Jehovah, we're talking about two different people. Right. So I constantly make the argument about good God, bad God.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So there is the Hebrew. There's the Hebrew God Jehovah.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: He's wrathful and dark and destructive. He's from Israel.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: And the other one, he made the Jews. He made the Israelites.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: While the Christian all forgiving God, Jehovah.

Cristina: Did he not also make the Jews?

Jack: Well, no, he made the Christians. He's Italian.

Cristina: He's Italian.

Jack: He made the Italians. Italy and all that stuff. That's Christianity.

Cristina: All right.

Jack: While the Hebrews are Jewish.

Cristina: Okay. So yes. Different gods.

Jack: Different gods, different regions. They fueled demi as compared to somebody like Zeno, who made f****** everything.

Cristina: If you. Did he really make everything? I mean, because there's so many things under him that they could have made their own thing.

Jack: Here's the problem. Zeno really decided to blink existence out of Feyre. And he could.

Cristina: Oh yeah, he could do that.

Jack: He actively was like, so this is really bad. Yeah, it's really bad. Okay, I'll destroy it.

Cristina: Alright. Yes. Yes.

Jack: The end. That was it. It was just like, okay, yeah, he's.

Cristina: A lot like the supernatural God who is going out and blinking out different realities.

Jack: This Zeno would crap on the supernatural God.

Cristina: Yeah. Because he had to actually take turns. He'd slowly.

Jack: He had to. Yeah, he had to break it apart. Zeno was like, well, it's gone.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And that was it. That's all it took.

Cristina: But he purposely did it slowly.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: He wanted to be dramatic, the story. Yes. So he might be the same. He might be equal to Zeno.

Jack: Interesting. So that's to say that the God from Supernatural is quite different than the God we talk about when we think about the two variants of Jehovah.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Light and dark and Zeus and Odin.

Cristina: He's more powerful than them.

Jack: Yes. Qs are about as powerful as Zeno.

Cristina: Even though they don't make anything or destroy anything.

Jack: But they could.

Cristina: Could they really?

Jack: Yeah. One of the arguments was, does humanity deserve to exist. That's what Q was trying to. Q was trying to save humanity. But first Q was in trial, and then Q put humanity on trial.

Cristina: When he did that, though, how do you know if they were really on trial? Like, how real was that?

Jack: I don't know.

Cristina: Because he's such a trickst.

Jack: Yeah, he's a troll. He's a troll?

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: I don't know. He's a troll.

Cristina: Like, he could be lying about everything he's ever said.

Jack: I think, if anything, he deserves the respect that he doesn't seem to be lying. He trolls, but he seems to be telling the truth always. And he's really upfront. He just wants you to figure out the solution.

Cristina: Yeah, but sometimes he puts them in danger, and it's not real danger.

Jack: He never said they were gonna die. He doesn't lie to you. He eludes.

Cristina: Ah, okay. It's hard to trust him. It really is. Do you think he's equal to.

Jack: I think he. His people at least, have the capacity collectively to extinguish entire civilizations instantaneously. The question is, could they remove a universe in its function?

Cristina: No, I don't think so.

Jack: You don't think so?

Cristina: That's crazy. That's.

Jack: Q could be anywhere at any moment.

Cristina: But you also said he could die.

Jack: But he could die. The question is, could Zeno die?

Cristina: Exactly. We don't know that. Like, he destroyed everything and he was still alive.

Jack: Well, he left on a ship.

Cristina: Yeah, that's true. But, like, you think he would have just died? He would have destroyed everything and died with it?

Jack: Maybe.

Cristina: I don't think so. He would have just made something new, I think.

Jack: I don't know. There's no way to know.

Cristina: There's no way to know.

Jack: The fact that he doesn't exist everywhere at all times already makes him a different thing. Yeah, because. Because Q does. Q could just be wherever at any given moment in time.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Q's gift, Picard, was teaching him how to think outside of time by forcing him to have the same memories at three different points of his life. That was the last episode of Next Generation where he was blinking back and forth and he had to use the knowledge of all times to work through the problems he was dealing with.

Cristina: And you think that's more complicated?

Jack: Well, I think that's more godly.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Zeno does not have that ability.

Cristina: No. We can definitely create and destroy everything.

Jack: So then the question is, nobody is 100% anything. Zeno is not all knowing and he's not all present, but he is all powerful.

Cristina: He is all powerful. Yeah.

Jack: While Q is all present. Maybe not all powerful and not all knowing. Because he could have just read the minds of the humans and known their capacity or seen the future and known it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: I guess he could, in theory, see the future, though.

Cristina: Yeah. So.

Jack: But he needs to interact with them at that time. So I guess he chooses different moments to interact with them. Because he could exist at all times, but he doesn't interact with them at all times.

Cristina: That's complicated.

Jack: Like, why doesn't he then?

Cristina: He does feel limited.

Jack: Yeah, There is some. There is some capacity to what he's doing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So they both feel limited, but they're.

Cristina: The closest thing to something complete. They're the closest to all the gods because they're all very. Even more limited than those two.

Jack: Yes. I think Q and Zeno are definitely way than the supernatural God. Maybe he's up there too.

Cristina: Him too. Yeah.

Jack: But he's not all knowing. They could block him off from knowing things.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And it's because in the case of the supernatural God, there is more going on to that God.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So we have the fact that, like in the previous episode, we discussed that he came to exist not as one, but as two. Factually and maybe as three. Yes, it is possible. God, darkness, and death happened simultaneously, and not one of them came first because the nothing was there first.

Cristina: Yeah. So is that the true goddess God? Does it know everything in supernatural?

Jack: That God is the most gaudy God, but that God is also limited.

Cristina: Yes, it is.

Jack: It's more powerful than all the other s*** and still limited.

Cristina: It is limited. I don't know. But it is. I don't. But their God, though, is really up there too. I mean, the only reason he lost was because of Jack, who's also kind of. He's a God too. Pretty much.

Jack: But that means God could die from another God.

Cristina: It takes a God to kill a God. I mean.

Jack: Yeah, it does. It does. But the fact that a God could die at all means they're less godly than we think they are.

Cristina: Yes. Oh, wait. Jack used his sister to help him kill, Right? What happened with his sister? No, the God killed his sister. Right.

Jack: The darkness. I don't remember how that was included. They needed a couple of things. Like God was op, but God wasn't infinite.

Cristina: No. They're gonna use his sister against him. But then he convinced her to be on his side and he took her inside him. Pretty much some weird thing like that.

Jack: And this God doesn't exist throughout all of time either. He couldn't die in that case.

Cristina: Because he does die.

Jack: And he does die, which means he didn't know this would happen. Which means he's bound to whatever current time there is.

Cristina: But he's writing what's happening, so that's really complicated.

Jack: Not entirely. Not entirely. There's some. That's why he likes Simon Dean. They're too unpredictable to him.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: There is some aspect of the universe that he has no control over. So he didn't design the universe he exists within, or maybe design the universe. He didn't create reality.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: He exists within reality and he makes things inside of reality. But there's an inherent feature of reality that he does not control. That affects everything in reality. And thus Sam and Dean are a product of that. And they can do whatever they want.

Cristina: Yes. But a lot of their luck turned out to be thanks to God.

Jack: Yes. But also, he has no idea what they're going to do half the time.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: What he loved about them is that he could tell them to do something they wouldn't. That's random and unpredictable. And that means he doesn't control everything.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And there's different degrees. Death himself is a runner of things. He has the books of who dies when they die, how they die. Which has nothing to do with God.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: God has no say in this. In fact, there's a book of God.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And God is not allowed to look at it. And God can't force Death to show him.

Cristina: Yeah. I'm God. I mean, Death can't betray when that moment's gonna happen. Like he can't decide, I'm gonna kill God.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: Even if God was gonna kill him or something.

Jack: Yes. So there's like.

Cristina: They're all limited.

Jack: Every. Everybody's got a limit. So then even the goddess God, which we would say would be the Nothing. Or the other side of the gate.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: There is still something higher.

Cristina: Yeah. I don't know.

Jack: Because the God within the gate is in a place that's a f****** literal place. You can go to the gate.

Cristina: Which gate?

Jack: Full metal.

Cristina: Oh, that God.

Jack: And actually where the nothing lives is also a location.

Cristina: Yes. Don't know where that location is supposed to be.

Jack: Well, you transcend the physical reality.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Or the physical universe. But you're still within reality. You're still perceiving. In both instances, then the way you would normally perceive is still very visual and auditory and tactile. So it's all the same senses, but you're experiencing it in some sort of ethereal form that's outside of Normal body constraints.

Cristina: But humans can't go there. I wonder if humans can go there.

Jack: To the other side of the gate. They can. You get pulled in.

Cristina: But I mean to. In the Nothing. Because only angels go there, as far as we can tell, I think.

Jack: Yeah. Jack and Castiel. And Castiel. And how did someone else want that?

Cristina: Sam?

Jack: How did Dean speak to it? Because he was familiar with the Nothing.

Cristina: Did he end up there? Did one of them end up there? I can't remember.

Jack: I can't remember either. That's interesting.

Cristina: I don't remember.

Jack: Oh, I think he did. I think when he finally ceased to exist, that's where he went. I don't remember who it was. I think it was Dean. I'm not sure anyways, because.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Yeah, it's. It's kind of interesting to me. So it seems like no matter how far up we go, everybody has a limit. Like omniscience can't happen. Like, you can't be omni. Everything.

Cristina: If you are, then you are. Everything is there. It's not possible. It's not possible for there to be a God.

Jack: Yes. Because God would be a product of perception.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And that means that you have to break down the concept of thought and subjectivity which goes beyond the concept of a God. A God has to think. A God has to exist.

Cristina: Yeah. So there can't really be the ultimate God that people think of.

Jack: Consciousness itself would be that.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: The global consciousness is the one and only God. And it's everywhere at all times. Simultaneously existing with the nothing that is everywhere at all times.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And perceiving that nothing makes the universe.

Cristina: Yeah. And that's it. I guess. Yeah. But there's no God making decisions or anything. Because then that will ruin everything.

Jack: Yes. That's just an observation. And this is what you see.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: That being said, this doesn't answer the question of.

Cristina: What was the question?

Jack: Is Q more powerful than Zeno?

Cristina: I feel like Zeno still wins. He blinked out a universe. He blinked out a reality, one of the many.

Jack: Instantaneously.

Cristina: Yeah. Yeah. I don't think Q can do that.

Jack: I don't think Q can do that either.

Cristina: Like, maybe they can kill humans like one specific group of beings. But.

Jack: Yeah, fair enough. So then the argument would be supernatural God versus Zeno.

Cristina: That's more tied, I think. Even though we don't know if Zeno could die but because that guy. That God also blinks realities out like nothing. I mean, he did it slowly, but that's because who he is.

Jack: Yes. Like, if he had to really? Because he just could. He just. Like, it's gone.

Cristina: Yeah, I'm sure he can, but he just loved to watch people scream and torture. I don't know. He's pretty messed up. God. Yeah.

Jack: Quite accurately.

Cristina: But yeah. I don't know them too.

Jack: Yeah. Because whichever one of them two wins then has to go against the Death Note.

Cristina: What?

Jack: Whichever one of those two gods wins goes against the Death Note.

Cristina: I feel like they both beat the Death Note.

Jack: Right. The question would be not, can I write your name faster than you could blink me out of existence?

Cristina: Then what is?

Jack: That's not the argument. It's if I write your name in the notebook, do you die?

Cristina: Do you die?

Jack: Like, you stand in front of me and you're like, I don't know. Let's try it. And then I do write whichever God's name in the notebook. Does that guy die? If I wrote Chuck's. Whatever complicated name.

Cristina: I think for Chuck. Yes. Only because we know he could die. Yes, we know he can die. And he's. His name is in a notebook. His name is.

Jack: He's literally gonna die. There is a literal death book.

Cristina: Yeah. There is a Death Note in the.

Jack: Show with his name in it.

Cristina: With his name in it that says when it'll happen. Interesting.

Jack: So the question also, if Zeno doesn't have death, then he beats Chuck because Chuck does die.

Cristina: Yeah. I don't know. They. They do have a heaven and h***, though, in that universe, so.

Jack: So does Dragon Ball Z. Yeah.

Cristina: That's what I mean. In Dragon Ball Z. So it's possible, I think, that just because those places exist, maybe he could end up in one of those places.

Jack: Interesting. Interesting.

Cristina: But I don't know, can he? Because what could touch him? What could touch him? I mean, if he goes against himself, I guess is the only real fight. I can't imagine anything else f****** with Zeno. Yeah. If it's Zeno versus Zeno. But could they? I don't think so. It would have to be something stronger than Xeno. But he's the top.

Jack: As far as we know.

Cristina: As far as we know.

Jack: Dragon Ball Z. I won't put a cap on anything.

Cristina: Ah, you think there's something even higher?

Jack: I think if. I think eventually Goku gets all the powers of all the freaking. Whatever these creatures. He gets the God powers or whatever.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Ultra mega duper instinct. And. And Vegeta gets super duper awesome destructive powers or whatever. Yeah. And then they get super grand Xeno power of all time. And then they're like, we're the strongest. And then Zeno's like, oh, no. My people are showing like, wait, your people? Yeah. I'm like the weak one.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: That's typical Dragon Ball Z s***. Yeah, I'm the weak one. We need your help, Goku. Something horrible is about to happen, and you're the only guy I know stronger than me.

Cristina: No way. I mean, it could be. I don't know.

Jack: Yeah. We already exited the concepts of time and a different universe. Or in the multiverse at this point.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: But there could be like an Ultra Verse.

Cristina: An Ultra Verse? Oh, yes.

Jack: And Zeno is one of the many.

Cristina: Yeah. No, I don't know. Only time will tell.

Jack: Like in this. At this point. At this point, nothing is God. It seems like nothing is legitimately God. Unless we have to change the definition of what God is.

Cristina: No, it's all demigods.

Jack: Yeah, because there's no. Like, the only true Gods are abstract concepts. That's the only way.

Cristina: Yeah. Then does that still count? That's not a God. Then what? The abstract.

Jack: The what? Like the global consciousness, that's everything. So it's. It's God. But that's literally to say God is within everything inherently without any deviation from anything. And it controls nothing. Except it controls everything, because everything is God. So it's intentional.

Cristina: Nothing.

Jack: Yeah, it means nothing. It's just reality equals God.

Cristina: Yeah. Okay, so, yeah, that's really.

Jack: They're interchangeable words.

Cristina: Yeah. So it doesn't matter.

Jack: Yeah, it doesn't matter.

Cristina: Wow. Huh? Does that make God a little bit lame? That he's not a thing?

Jack: No, he's still OP next to us. He's just not infinitely the way we think. From our point of view, he is. He'll always be everywhere, all the time, and exist beyond our concepts of time. But, like, he could already be dead.

Cristina: He could already be dead. I don't know.

Jack: God could have died in making the universe, and then as a result, he's never existed within our time.

Cristina: What would make him God? How would that work? I don't know.

Jack: He made. He's God because He made everything as far as we know.

Cristina: Okay. That's it. The power of making us is enough to be God. Because it doesn't really matter if he can live forever or not.

Jack: Yes.

Cristina: If he has all the knowledge or not.

Jack: Yeah. I guess Creator and God would be interchangeable.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Not omniscience, but Creator.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Creator equals God.

Cristina: Yeah. So if it's a scientist in the lab, that's good enough.

Jack: Yes. A scientist in a lab is God of Whatever he made, he's creator. And so I guess an interesting angle here would be if that were the case, God or the universe can exist, not God. And the universe can exist because God uses himself to make the universe. Then the universe collapses into this one thing again. And this one thing is all that there is. And it's an ever existing, infinitely lasting, self aware thing. And then it decides imma make everything, but I must make it from me, because I'm all that there is. And then I'll die in doing so. But I will be everything. My corpse is everything. And then that's the universe. And then the universe, after long enough, collapses again. And then it's this one thing again that's fully aware of itself and it's everything and everywhere all the same time. Because it's all that there is. And so there's a cycle of there is a God but no universe. And there's a universe but no God.

Cristina: Weird. Oh my gosh. Okay, but what, what is that? God is making the universe every time. Then the universe becomes God.

Jack: The universe dies. To create a God.

Cristina: To create a God.

Jack: In death there is birth somehow. Yes, always. Inescapably.

Cristina: So when the universe dies, God is made from that?

Jack: Yeah, God is made from the collapsed universe.

Cristina: Ashes. Interesting.

Jack: Then God collapses to create the universe.

Cristina: That's interesting.

Jack: Interesting. And as long as we exist, we are made of God. God is within all of us. Literally.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Because God corpses us all. The star. Well, everything is made of stardust. We are made of stardust. Well, that stardust is God's corpse.

Cristina: Okay. Oh, I guess that's a dark way to word it.

Jack: God's corpse. But it's like whatever he was. Because corpse doesn't really make sense. But whatever he was, the waves that create the universe, the four forces or.

Cristina: Five, intentionally make us. Or is it just part of his life cycle to make us in the end, after he dies? Like.

Jack: I don't know. I don't know. That's an interesting question and something that would be impossible for me to answer. Yeah, but now the other angle of this would be if it was always perpetually existing, then we have the possibility. The global consciousness is much more accurate. And the global consciousness perceives everything simultaneously, is aware that it is a singular thing and the way that it is simultaneously everything else. Even if we have no awareness that we are that one thing and we all feel subjective in some higher dimensional perspective, we are all fully aware that we are the same thing.

Cristina: That's possible.

Jack: Yeah, that would mean that there's no distinction. And there is no life and there is no death. There's only perspective.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Which feels like something that would happen as a product of consciousness observing nothingness.

Cristina: Yes. That's gotta be. It feels more accurate, right?

Jack: That feels more accurate.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Because even God dying to create the universe and the universe collapsing to create God, where is this happening? Right. There's still something happening.

Cristina: There's something off there. Yeah.

Jack: Yeah. There's something bigger, anyways.

Cristina: Mm. But if it's the global consciousness, then there doesn't need to be anything bigger.

Jack: It doesn't need to be anything bigger. Yeah. It's all of everything.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: There is size ceases to matter.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Because you are the big and the small simultaneously with no distinction.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Sure, within the third dimension, there might be infinitely going up, but all of everything in every scale within the third dimension is just a single slit of some fourth dimension, the single slit of fifth dimension, single slit of. And so on and so forth. That's collectively the one. Same thing.

Cristina: Yeah. I think that's it.

Jack: That is everywhere. But everywhere doesn't make sense because it is the space in which everything is in at the same time.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: So, like, being everywhere doesn't matter if you are the space that is everywhere.

Cristina: Yeah, that sounds right.

Jack: Right. That makes way more sense.

Cristina: That's gotta be the real God. I think so.

Jack: But then the concept of God ceases to exist. Because it's not even creator. Because it created nothing. It was always there. Yeah, all of it was always there. No, but it's weird because then we're saying that in order to be God, you just have to be creator, not omniscient. Because the only omniscient thing is a global consciousness.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Everywhere. Everyone always knows everything.

Cristina: So we wouldn't call that a God.

Jack: We wouldn't call that a God because God has to.

Cristina: Because that is it. That's not. I guess. Yeah. God is not a good enough name for what it is.

Jack: Yes. Because it is not an it.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Because the lack of it is also what we're talking about.

Cristina: Yeah. So.

Jack: And it's like God is just another piece of this thing that feels that I'm God. But, like. Yeah, he's still.

Cristina: But that's why demigod sounds more right. Whether it sees itself as God or not.

Jack: Yes. Because if we're gonna say God and use all these descriptors of omniscient everything, then that's a global consciousness. Blah, blah, blah. That's the global consciousness.

Cristina: Yeah. If there's a God, it's not really? The God that everyone imagines, it's. Yeah, because. So I guess gods can exist, they're just not really gods.

Jack: Yes, well, they are. They're creators.

Cristina: They're creators.

Jack: There are creators. There might be creators. It's possible there are creators. Maybe this universe was created by a thinking individual, but that thinking individual in the highest plane of existence is no different than we are.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Because somehow we also made this universe.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Here's a weird one. God exists because we believe in him. But God had to make the universe for us to believe in them. That's us being God.

Cristina: That's still the global consciousness.

Jack: Exactly. When you look at weird contradictions like that, weird paradoxes where. Well, the human wants to believe in something led to the existence of a God, but God made the universe with the people who believe in him. That's a closed loop.

Cristina: Yeah, but it's a perfect loop.

Jack: Perfect loop.

Cristina: That's how it should be.

Jack: If it's not a paradox, we don't get it.

Cristina: If it's not a paradox, we don't get it.

Jack: Yeah. Who was it? Einstein is the one who said it. But if you don't. I'm not sure. But if you don't understand it, if you. If you believe you understand it, you don't, because what is it? No, if you're not confused, you don't understand it well enough. There you go.

Cristina: I'm very confused.

Jack: Yeah, if you're not confused, you don't understand it well enough.

Cristina: So you're saying we do understand it. Because I feel like I still don't understand it. I do.

Jack: No, if you're very, very. I don't know.

Cristina: It's so complicated.

Jack: I don't know. Well, you don't understand it super well, no matter what. But you understand it better than somebody who believes they get it.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: Like if somebody's like, well, there is definitely a God, and this is why. And then you're like, well, what about the whole other argument that contradicts that? Well, you're aware of a contradiction, that you're confused. You're like, well, yeah, I get it. But like, what about this giant hole over here? Even if we still technically exist, that hole still exists. You're aware that there's a problem.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So you're confused more than that person who isn't. Who thinks, well, no, it's clearly this. It's like, well, you're missing so many pieces of this picture, and that's why you think it's like this.

Cristina: Yep. So complicated.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: So who's gonna win. Zeno or the death Supernatural God?

Jack: No, it doesn't matter. Zeno is gonna win. We know supernatural God dies. The question is, does Zeno die?

Cristina: Okay, so then Zeno versus.

Jack: Yeah. Because we know that Arceus, who also made everything, can be trapped inside of stupid Pokeball.

Cristina: Yeah, but he could probably live forever.

Jack: I don't know. And we can outman. The problem is, we can outmaneuver Zeno.

Cristina: How do you know?

Jack: Because you can escape his realm of knowledge. He's bound to time. He didn't know the other him. It wasn't him. The fact that there are two of him.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: There are things he does not know.

Cristina: Yes. He only knows his universe.

Jack: He knows his universe. And not all of it either. He met Goku. He didn't know Goku.

Cristina: No. Okay.

Jack: You see, he's not all knowing. He made the universe.

Cristina: Maybe he made all of them, which makes no sense. I don't understand. It's complicated. Why are there more than one? Because they're from different times. Not even different realities. Nope.

Jack: Just different times.

Cristina: So that makes it weird because he made all the realities in the first place.

Jack: He made different universes.

Cristina: Universes.

Jack: 12 universes.

Cristina: Yeah. Oh, okay. 12 universes.

Jack: But the different times within these universes, he is subject to, not a creator of.

Cristina: Yeah. So then could his name be written there?

Jack: Maybe there's something outside of Xeno that exists.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Which is time.

Cristina: Mm, man. Then, yeah, I think he could be written in there. Because time, he still. Yeah.

Jack: Trump Zeno.

Cristina: Yeah. So eventually he dies like everyone else.

Jack: In some way we can't fathom.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: But yes, Zeno probably dies.

Cristina: Probably can die.

Jack: So then the question is, is there somebody whose name we can't write? Now, the Shinigami's names can't be written within the notebook. But the Shinigami, although the exception, aren't godly. Other than the fact that live forever, they escape time, but can still die. They escape time by adding once they run out of people.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: To write their names into the notebook, all the Shinigami would cease to exist. Because they need people's names to write in the notebook to live.

Cristina: Yes, that's true. Even they die.

Jack: Yes. So the people die, and then the Shinigami die.

Cristina: Yep.

Jack: So whose name can we write in the notebook and won't die? That would be the gaudiest God.

Cristina: The gaddiest God.

Jack: Zeus could be killed. Hercules does it. Kratos does it. The Q's were gonna execute one another.

Cristina: Exactly. So they could be written even if they Lived outside of time. It makes no sense.

Jack: Odin is scared of trying to kill him.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: So he can die.

Cristina: Yeah, he definitely fears death. That's his biggest fear. Death. Okay.

Jack: I would argue Old Jehovah was killed by New Jehovah or imprisoned. Bare minimum. Meaning there's some degree of power. He can't overcompensate. Which means anyone equal to him can trap him.

Cristina: Can the dragons in Dragon Ball Z die?

Jack: Yes. Yes, it can. That's why the dragons fear the gods of death.

Cristina: Oh, okay.

Jack: I don't know if the Super Mega Duper dragon, but the question is Xeno versus the Super Mega Duper Dragon.

Cristina: I don't know. I feel like Xeno could blink it out of existence.

Jack: He could blink out the literal balls that summoned it. But could he blink out the dragon?

Cristina: Possibly. His power is ridiculous, though. He might be limited, but he's still pretty ridiculous as a creature or whatever he is. So I don't know if there's anything that can't be written. I don't know. The Darkness, the nothing. Nothing can die.

Jack: Interesting. Interesting. Does nothing exist? Because the darkness is trapped, just like Chuck. But the Nothing, which we've also established is somehow the Speed Force. But the Nothing, we could probably not write its name down and get a result, because where would it go if not back to where it came from and then just come back.

Cristina: Exactly. It's nothing. Like, you can't get rid of nothing.

Jack: You can't get rid of nothing. But then the same thing would happen with the Gate, because death literally sends everything to the Gate. When you go there, you see everybody who's dead. So if you were to capture the creature from the gate outside, Kill it somehow, by whatever definition means kill. It would go back to the space in which it dwells and then come right back. In neither one of these cases did they die. You change your location so they don't die. They just stay there. They've always been and they'll always be.

Cristina: Yes. I think that that's pretty much it, though.

Jack: Yeah.

Cristina: The Space Force. That's what you called it. Speed Force.

Jack: The Speed.

Cristina: The Speed Force. Okay. That's the ultimate name.

Jack: Yes. So the Speed Force is the one thing that's named we can't write. Well, it's just the Force.

Cristina: The Force. Okay.

Jack: And Trump's magnificent Space Force can also not be destroyed.

Cristina: Trump's Space Force.

Jack: Yeah. You just said the Space Force.

Cristina: Oh.

Jack: So Space Force and the.

Cristina: That's what they called Space Force.

Jack: Yeah, the space, like, cowboy thing. He tried to start to Protect the planet.

Cristina: That's a cool thing, though.

Jack: Yeah. To protect the planet from, like, aliens or something.

Cristina: I don't know. I want to be part of that.

Jack: I would like to be part of that. I'm not sure what the point of the Space Force is, but maybe it's to find the real God. Maybe we're looking for the nothing. We have an inkling that even if we don't get how it's an alien. It is.

Cristina: Yes. No, I don't think it is.

Jack: I think it's an alien.

Cristina: What? Nothing. Yeah, I don't think it's alien.

Jack: It might be. Who knows? I have no concept of what is.

Cristina: Yeah, but nothing is nothing. I don't know.

Jack: Nothing is nothing, so. But it's in a place which is weird. I would argue it's the highest form of godliness in that it cannot be killed and seems to have the capacity to get rid of anything else.

Cristina: But you think it's limited in some way?

Jack: I don't think it's all powerful. Like, it couldn't blink the universe out of existence, but it could kill an individual within the universe. So it could, like, off Chuck, which is one. Chuck is one, not everything.

Cristina: I mean, it eventually can get rid.

Jack: Of everything, picking at it one by one by one by one for all of infinity. But it can do it, I guess, given enough time.

Cristina: Yeah. That's all it needs. And time probably means nothing to it.

Jack: But that being said, you give Castiel enough time, and he can, in theory, destroy everything in the universe. Giving anyone enough time? They can't really, with an infinite amount of time.

Cristina: Yeah, like planets and stuff. No, there are things we can't destroy easily.

Jack: Fair. But, like, you don't need to be ubers. Like, for example, Thor can clear out a universe with infinity.

Cristina: You could destroy a planet, probably, with.

Jack: Infinity by his side. I mean, his hammer has the power of a star.

Cristina: Oh, okay. Yeah.

Jack: You know, like, he can do whatever the f*** he wants.

Cristina: He can't get rid of himself. The Nothing has that advantage.

Jack: That's a weird one, Right? Exactly, because that's the only thing the Nothing has in his favor. He can get rid of any one thing at any given time, and then that's it.

Cristina: There's nothing left. If someone else did the same thing, they'd still be left.

Jack: Yes, but the nothing isn't there.

Cristina: Exactly. So the nothing wins.

Jack: The nothing wins. It was already not there. You could get rid of everything.

Cristina: You could get rid of everything.

Jack: Zeno would still be left. Even if he blinked, the universe Out. Chuck would still be left even if he blinked the universe out. As would be Odin, as would be Zeus, as would be Jehovah. Everybody. Everybody. Everybody except the nothing, where the only thing that would be left is nothing.

Cristina: Exactly. Nothing will be left.

Jack: Nothing would be left.

Cristina: Truly extinguish everything. He wins.

Jack: And he's not there to begin with.

Cristina: Exactly. That makes no sense.

Jack: Yeah, it's a weird thought to have, because in supernatural, they're just trying to convey that there's nothing here by showing us something there. Yeah, but, like, the idea is there's nothing.

Cristina: Yes, but they gave nothing a personality and everything. I don't know. Yeah, they made nothing of something, but.

Jack: It'S not still nothing. Yeah, a conscious nothing. Because first, consciousness has nothing, and nothing, for whatever reason, has consciousness.

Cristina: Well, that makes sense, I guess. But it's the same thing. Consciousness and nothing are the same.

Jack: Sort of. But they're not. No, because, like, nothingness isn't inherently conscious, but it contains consciousness within it or around it or. Yes, some consciousness.

Cristina: But that's with everything. Everything has consciousness.

Jack: No, because everything is consciousness. Not everything has consciousness.

Cristina: Everything is.

Jack: There's only things. Because consciousness.

Cristina: Okay. And nothing is the same.

Jack: Well, nothing doesn't have consciousness. No, Nothing is nothing. Despite consciousness. That's the only thing that exists. Man, this conversation is so astoundingly abstract. I'm sure we've alienated the entire listener base by talking about the most abstract concept, which is to break apart anything and everything and leave the literal lack of all. And consciousness is bare bones. Yes, but, like, we're talking gods. This is the limit. Yes, because God, the idea of a God, is demi by default.

Cristina: There's the only things left is consciousness and nothing.

Jack: Yeah, and consciousness has no space in which to act. It observes action, and nothingness has nothing to act within it. But somehow the product of observing the lack of equals something. Nothing could be more abstract than this.

Cristina: Conversation, but I think that's as far as we can go with it. I don't.

Jack: Yeah, it's the limit of metaphysics. We're not even trying to answer stupid questions like, what is consciousness? Like, I don't f****** know, bro. It's observation. Yeah, I don't know how to answer that question, but I can tell you that the limit of all that there is. Maybe not factually, but, like, as far as even the humans listening. And if you are listening and you feel like you have a better answer.

Cristina: Mm.

Jack: Let us know.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: If you feel you have something more abstract to offer.

Cristina: I doubt that. But if you do.

Jack: Enlighten us. Because right now we believe that before something existed, there was a potential consciousness within the nothing that is everywhere or whatever. Or every nothing. It's hard because there is no language to describe the lack of something.

Cristina: Nothing is nothing. Nowhere.

Jack: Yeah. Nothing is everywhere and nowhere. Because it doesn't that there needs to be a word. The problem is language would break down because if you had a word, then it's something by default.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It needs to transcend everything. Because it's nothing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: It needs to transcend literally everything. And then consciousness needs to be included. And then the universe happens. Or reality is a product. Reality looks like is subject to whatever rules are governing said reality, which is observed by consciousness looking at nothing. I don't know what else to say.

Cristina: Yeah. So look, if you make sense.

Jack: I hope so. Point is that if we write Zeno's name into Death Note, he probably dies.

Cristina: Yeah. That's the conclusion here.

Jack: It seems like the only name we can't successfully write and get good results from nothing are nothing from Supernatural and the God from Full Metal. Because that's also essentially the nothing.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: It exists in a weird space of nothing.

Cristina: You can't write down nothing.

Jack: Like you can, but nothing would happen.

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: Because there's just nothing there for something to happen to.

Cristina: Exactly. That's the conclusion.

Jack: That's the conclusion that if you write the name of nothing, well, nothing would happen.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And that makes perfect sense, right?

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: If you write nothing, then nothing.

Cristina: Exactly.

Jack: This is an educational episode.

Cristina: Yes. You learned a lot.

Jack: We learned a lot. If you write nothing, nothing happens. That's. Man. If you write nothing, nothing happens. And I can't. Look, if you guys truly do believe there's more, please tell us. We need to know. I would like to know definitely what more abstract concept there is.

Cristina: If you know more about nothing.

Jack: Yeah. If you have a way of thinking of nothing that we have not discussed, please share.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: Because this is not like an easy subject.

Cristina: No, I mean, it's about, like, how do you even.

Jack: I don't know, dude. It's weird.

Cristina: Yes. So, yeah, let us know.

Jack: Let us know about nothing.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: And that's fantastic and all, but, like, I don't know because. Because there's nothing to know.

Cristina: There's nothing to know.

Jack: So, like, if they had an answer, it would have to include the fact that there's nothing to share. That's. I don't know. Just comment, reply, tweet at us, or f******, like, find us on, preferably Instagram, email us. I don't Care.

Cristina: Text us.

Jack: Yeah, text us. Let us know. Send us. Send me a letter.

Cristina: Call us. So we can ignore it.

Jack: Yeah, probably a scam call, but I'll answer and try to find out what nothing means.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: In fact, next time I get a scam call, I'm gonna do that.

Cristina: Okay.

Jack: I'll be like, what? What does nothing mean?

Cristina: Yes. Okay.

Jack: Yeah, I'm gonna just ask, what does nothing mean? And they're gonna tell me, don't know. Well, no, they know everything except what f****** car. The warranty they're asking for seems to be expired on. And if you ask them, like, then how do you know? Then they hang up on you. Your car is expired warranty. You got to send this money or whatever. Which car? Your newest car. Wait, I bought two cars at the same time. Which one? What are the two makes of your car? Well, hold on. You said the warranty was expiring. How do you know?

Cristina: Yeah, they're just really guessing.

Jack: Yeah, they're not guessing. There's no f****** warranty expiring.

Cristina: Yeah. Yeah.

Jack: You might not even have a car. No, they're just calling a number saying the warranty's expire.

Cristina: Yeah, they call me for that. What car? I don't know.

Jack: Yeah, which one of my cars?

Cristina: Man, that's crazy.

Jack: Anyway, so let us know, man. Let us know.

Cristina: Let us know about nothing.

Jack: Yeah, let us know about nothing. And if you like conversations like this. Well, last episode, we had the same thing. And I think, like, two or three episodes before that, we also discussed. That's where we came to the conclusion of what the Speed Force was. The Force, ultimately, the energy that exists within everything. And then. So this episode, we tried to compare all the gods. The previous episode, we established which God is. What? I don't remember.

Cristina: I don't.

Jack: I know. We talked about gods, too, to some degree. And then several episodes back, established the Speed Force as. Oh, no, last episode was the Fifth Force.

Cristina: The Fifth Force. Okay.

Jack: The Fifth Natural Force.

Cristina: Which looks like magic.

Jack: Which looks like magic. Man, that's the weirdest thing, right? Because the Nothing and the Speed Force could die. That's the problem. The Force could die. You could use the Force.

Cristina: So nothing isn't the Force.

Jack: Nothing isn't.

Cristina: You've been calling, even saying it, we thought it was. It's not. Okay? The whole episode is wrong.

Jack: But, yeah. Yeah, this episode proved last episode wrong.

Cristina: Yeah, but we just found out.

Jack: We just found out. D***. That's crazy.

Cristina: Yeah.

Jack: Anyways, you can find this and many more episodes of this kind on the official Website great thoughts.info or anywhere you get your podcast, like Apple Podcasts and Spotify and wherever.

Cristina: And you can reach us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and TikTok at justconvopod.

Jack: Yes. And also remember to subscribe and rate and review the show. Reviews are great and they help and rates are great and they help and subscriptions are great and you get more episodes and you can hear us talk such abstract thoughts that you get lost.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: And additionally, go listen to me talk to people on the stereo app where I have conversations with people.

Cristina: Yes. And let someone who might like this show know about it.

Jack: Yes. Like I said before, you walk up and you scream and they'll know. They'll know that what you meant is. The Just Conversation podcast, the episodes about gods and about the fifth natural force and about what the force is and about the nothing.

Cristina: Yep. This has been the Just Conversation podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Bye.

Jack: Oh, yes. Yes. Baby cells. Yeah, skin cells.

Cristina: That doesn't make it alive.

Jack: Yes, it's cells.

Cristina: It's leftover though.

Jack: It doesn't matter because it's alive. All of it is alive.

Cristina: It doesn't say that it's alive.

Jack: Cellular lining is living.

Cristina: It's not living while it's on the poop. It's just dead cellular lining.

Jack: No.

Cristina: No one said living cellular lining. Did they say living?

Jack: It said living. It said living on many accounts. Living bacteria.

Cristina: No, but it doesn't say living cellular lining. It just says cellular lining.

Jack: Cellular lining. Living. I don't think Google that.

Cristina: Because our dead bodies have cellular lining.

Jack: Google it.

Cristina: And our dead bodies are dead.

Jack: Google it. But that didn't come out of a dead body.

Cristina: It did come from dead body. It did come from a dead body.

Jack: The poop.

Cristina: Yes.

Jack: No, the poop is what's dying. We're talking about a poop by itself that's gonna die when death embraces it.

Cristina: Good morning. Good morning. The Just Conversation podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by great dots.info art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McCallister with social media managed by Amber Black.