Rambling 249: All Hallows' Eve's Shadow
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Why do we dress like spirits similar to those in the Shadow Realm on Halloween? What does pumpkin carving have to do with anything? And why is mass held on Halloween Night? The due deep dive into the origin of Halloween and what ancient technology these traditional rituals are based on.
+Episode Details
- AllHallowsEve Bells
- Bridging the Realms
- Jack-O-Lanterns
- Fairy Protectors
- Purgatory
- Costumes
- Vengeful Spirits
- Danse Macabre
- The Isle of Man
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+Transcript
Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.
Jack: Going live in 5, 4.
Cristina: What does live mean?
Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I'm your host, Jack.
Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.
Jack: And this is a show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas. And so we, we always bring in the most baffling of baffling ideas. And as we've through the weeks, through the months, maybe a year at this point, who knows, our whole lifetime, I don't know, we've been deep diving and checking into an entire giant, massive, ridiculous conspiracy created by. Well, if you trace back through the Catholic church, it leads you to the Elysians, who are essentially the sea people that the Greek and Egyptians and the Mayans spoke of. And then that unravels this giant massive hyper advanced technology of ancient civilizations. Cover up conspiracy involving interesting rituals and a lot of scientific advancement that we consider almost magic from how advanced it is going backwards in time, very, very back. Which in, in theory suggests that we live in a place that's kind of like horizon zero dawn, where we think, oh yeah, they were, the ancients worshiped and they had magic and this and that. No, they were scientists. They were all scientists. Everybody had scientists and they were running experiments and they were doing interesting things and it was so advanced. They were riff breaking rifts to different dimensions and s***. Oh, realms. Because dimensions all exist simultaneously and we all exist amongst all the dimensions within one plane. But they would cross over to other realms, three of which seem to be. I don't know if there's more in either direction, but as far as the scope of our understanding is, as of now, the furthest up we can go is one. And we are the bottom of them with one in between.
Cristina: Where the bottom.
Jack: Yeah, was the last one made.
Cristina: Oh, okay.
Jack: Sequentially. Althea, Shadow, Earth and like. Okay, yeah. So great giant deep dive and we did some kind of old school forms of these episodes where we would focus on a specific thing, but then that kept opening and expanding more and more and more until everything kind of merged into each other. And for a long time we had that. So we've been trying to come back to and focus on very specific things that kind of enlighten other parts. As we hit walls, we've gone so deep, we start to hit walls and don't know where to go. But we do have the ability to focus on specific things. So we focus on the different scientific groups, we focus on different time periods and what certain people were doing in those times. In the past, we've done creatures, and it all reveals a lot, tells us a lot. And I thought in the spirit of the holidays, because we're coming up on Halloween in a couple of days.
Cristina: Yep.
Jack: That we can go and look at what these things really were before we attached our mythos to it.
Cristina: What things?
Jack: Well, Halloween and what these things really were, because everything related to everything else.
Cristina: That we've been talking about that you just talked about.
Jack: It's all related.
Cristina: It's all related.
Jack: It's all related.
Cristina: Oh, okay.
Jack: You can be blown away when I tell you how this is all connected, because when, you know, as we've. As we've. I guess my point is, as we've looked more into these things, we've learned how to find it more and more.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And because of knowing how to find it more and more, we know where to look to find it more and more. All right, so I look in one direction. I'm like, huh? Because I didn't have the information before. I didn't see these things.
Cristina: Halloween somehow relates to many parts of it.
Jack: Many parts of it. So, yeah, by looking at it, I've come to like, oh, s***, you know, we didn't have the information before. I look at it now, and I'm like, oh, I couldn't see this before, but now I see the connection between these two things. Let me focus on that thing. Go in. Oh, look what I find.
Cristina: Awesome.
Jack: Then go over there. Look at that. That connection looks interesting. Deep dive. That specific thing that we would neglect most of the time. And slowly but surely, it connected to things that we have already talked about from the past. It connected with things that we have recently addressed. It connects with too much. So let's. Let's deep dive into Halloween. Okay, so important things about Halloween. What do we know about Halloween so far? Go ahead and tell me what Halloween is as far as the masses know.
Cristina: What, like trick or treating for candy? Going to your neighbors for candy. The simplest version of Halloween. There's no actually trick to it. You say trick or treat, but it's just kids going to their neighbors begging for candy.
Jack: That's all of it.
Cristina: I feel like it's the main focus. Oh, and they're dressed up in costumes. That also counts. I don't know if there's any theme to it. It's just whatever you want to be. Spooky or not spooky. You can dress up as a princess if you wanted. Like, there's no real spookiness to it, I guess. Once upon a time. Yes. But if we're talking about today. Halloween, yeah, that's pretty much it. And I don't know what adults do. I guess they give out candy. They buy a bunch of candy. They decorate their house in spooky ways or whatever. You know, ghost pumpkins, zombies sometimes. And give out candy with spooky music playing in their. If they are really into it.
Jack: Interesting. Okay, what other things can you tell me about what things exist around Halloween time? What happens in Halloween? What other other things?
Cristina: Like Halloween parties. I don't know if that counts.
Jack: Okay, yeah, cool. Halloween parties. What else?
Cristina: What else is happening? I know someone's going to a Halloween costume party, but that's still related to, like, costumes. Costumes is a big thing.
Jack: Costume is a big thing. Other than costumes, what is Halloween related.
Cristina: In Halloween, besides costumes and candy?
Jack: Besides costumes and candy, what else happens?
Cristina: I don't know. I feel like that's main things. What am I missing? What's the big other big thing?
Jack: Really? You can't think of the other really obvious big things that happen in Halloween.
Cristina: Parents warning their children about people who are after them. I don't know. They're gonna poison their cats.
Jack: Yeah, okay. Okay. Keep going.
Cristina: That's what. And I guess there's always, like, kids who are gonna ruin it for everyone by, like, doing the trick part of trick or treating.
Jack: Like egging a house.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Or toilet paper.
Cristina: I don't know if that actually ever.
Jack: Happens, but movies at least try to convince us it does.
Cristina: Yeah. So maybe it happens.
Jack: I mean, some douchey teenagers probably do.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: What else?
Cristina: I guess if you're, like, into the spiritual thing of Halloween, you might be trying to connect to ghosts on that day.
Jack: Yes. Okay, so far, so good. Okay, but you're missing the one thing I'm talk. I'm thinking about, but good, because I totally forgot about that entirely.
Cristina: Oh, okay.
Jack: People do use that night as a way to perform certain rituals. Yeah, but decorations.
Cristina: I did mention decorations.
Jack: You mentioned costumes and decorating your house. Okay, I didn't catch that.
Cristina: Adults decorating their houses to give out to.
Jack: What's the most prominent of decorations besides.
Cristina: Like, pumpkins and ghosts?
Jack: Pumpkins. You whispered it or something. I didn't catch any of that. You're talking into a mic, and I still didn't hear it.
Cristina: Oh, okay.
Jack: So, yeah, definitely mentioned all that. Ghosts.
Cristina: Yeah, I said pumpkin ghosts. And sometimes zombies. And sometimes they play music while creepy music while giving out the candy.
Jack: Ooh, define creepy music.
Cristina: Sometimes I don't really know what is considered creepy. Like, I guess Booing. Or maybe that song from one of those horror movies. Like, what is the one that's famous? No, not that. That's probably a party Halloween. Yeah, but the one that. I think it's Michael Myers or Jason. One of them has something playing while they're walking.
Jack: Yeah, yeah. Okay. Ok. Okay, Fair. Okay. Yeah. So all of These things are 100% associated with Halloween. There's definitely the kids in the costumes, there's definitely the candy giving, there's the rituals, the pumpkins, decorations, the tricks. There's the warnings of evil happening, people trying to connect to the spirits. And actually every bit of all of this connects in one way or another to something that isn't just some tradition, but is part of the sciences we've discussed recently. So the processes as we know them go as follow. The ancients used science somewhere in between us and the ancients that became a mythos and series of traditions because the technology was lost. So it just became things that people would enact even if they didn't know the real reason why. They built a mythology around that and said, oh, this is why. And that's. And blah, blah, blah. And then there's now where we're turning over stones to try to figure it out. And a lot of the time it's just become a meme of itself, you know? Okay, so we're gonna go backwards, following that same train of thought the opposite direction. We're gonna look at the meme version of itself. We're gonna see where that culturally came from, and then what that really meant for the ancients. Although it's gonna be really obvious as we start to unravel it, as soon as we get to the tradition of it, that you're gonna be like, oh, s***, I know what it was. Okay, so there are many variations specifically of Christianity, but amongst other religions that always choose October 31st, from the morning of October 31st until the very start of November 1st as the most optimal day to pay respect to purgatory. That is the dates route. They pay respect to purgatory along that time. Now, if we've established in the past, the purgatory is one obvious place.
Cristina: The Shadowrun.
Jack: The Shadowrun, okay. H*** and purgatory seem to be divided in Christianity, but are ultimately the same place when you break down the roots and what goes on in them. Purgatory, one place. And these days are said to be the day for that for a couple of reasons. But in these days, we call it Halloween. Halloween backtracks to a ritual celebration called Hallows Eve. Which is when again we would pay respects to purgatory. Purgatory has something very interesting and very specific. It's intended to bring to mind and think of those in purgatory. When I found the original text, the current day text, you know, it's to pay respect to the dead. But you go back a couple of generations before a bunch of these corrections happen and you end up where the text drops. The dead says to pay respect to those in purgatory. That's immediately interesting because that means that, or at least it focuses on. It doesn't focus. It's the lack of focus. It's not about the dead, it's about people in purgatory. Maybe it's still about the dead. Maybe they believe only that that could go there. But when that distinction was made, I'm like, okay, this is interesting. Alright, let me go farther back. Finding the same line over and over from older texts. From older texts. And it does.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: It becomes, and this is what's fascinating, they re add the word dead. It's very important that they do though, because they are there to remember the dead and the spirits of purgatory. That distinction powerful. Because that's just.
Cristina: What does that mean? What's the difference of the dead and the spirits?
Jack: Of the spirits in purgatory? Yeah, what are creatures from the shadow realm on our side?
Cristina: Oh, so you think they're worse. They're like worshiping the dead. The spirits, the creatures doesn't say anything about worship. Oh, they're.
Jack: They're remembering the dead and paying respect to the creatures.
Cristina: Spirits of purgatory, but paying their respects to those creatures.
Jack: Paying respect to those creatures. Yes.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: A couple of things I did find were that there is, and this will be addressed later as I'm going through this. There are good spirits in purgatory different from the dead. And there are bad spirits in purgatory separate from the dead. And they want to pay respect to all of them for their own safety because they believe one, this night, which again, we'll get to this as we go through it is the most likely that these things will come through. And two, because of that, you can most easily communicate that back. So we mean you no harm. We respect you. Please don't cause us harm now or throughout the year.
Cristina: Yeah, but the more scared you are, the more you attract. So that's crazy.
Jack: It creates a feedback loop. It's the day that they can most come through, so you have most fear. So they're more likely to come through because you're scared. That they're going to come through.
Cristina: Exactly. What?
Jack: Interesting, right?
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Nice little feedback loop happening now. There was a. These days, this doesn't exist anymore unless you're particularly religious. And people usually go to mass to achieve this. But. But there was a bell. Two types of bells. One attached to the church that would be rung on All Hallows Eve, and one that would be carried by something called a crier. A crier in the. From somewhere between, like, the 1500s to about the 1800s was the public square announcer day.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And this individual was just, you know, he would make announcements, he would tell people the news and whatever. But also the same individual on these days would dress in very dark clothing, and he would wave around his. He would have a little bell that he's ringing as he's walking around town. And the crier would tell people who, you know, people consider themselves good Christians dressed in black and wandering the streets while ringing the bell. He would tell the good Christians to remember the dead and pay homage and respect to the spirits of shadow. So people would be consistently reminded. And with this bell, this bell is particular because it's a special bell. It is a blessed bell. It is a bell that allows the spirits and the dead in purgatory to hear the bell.
Cristina: Okay, what.
Jack: This is an interesting piece of technology I had no idea about. So the bell became very interesting because you have a tool that you're telling me could, in theory, create a sound from this side that could reach the other side. What is this? It's just a bell by any definition. You bless it. Okay. What the h*** does that mean? And it not being organic means you can't just pour some adrenochrome on it. It could be like, that's not how it works, you know. So what is it exactly? And apparently the structure of a bell in general, it's not about this specific bell, but it's the circumstance in which you're ringing the bell. It creates this harmony that we're very used to from bells, but smaller.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: But it's a thicker, more daunting bell. So you have. As he's wandering with this kind of heavy thing you got. And the importance of this is that apparently the frequencies are similar to a lot of the things used. You know, when you go into a meditative state. And you can sort of use the same sounds to cross dimensions. Well, you can use these same sounds to cross realms, because what it's doing is essentially piercing the fabric that ties things together. You're using a resonance that's equal to that of atomic structure.
Cristina: So you think the sound is actually reaching the.
Jack: I think it's designed in such a way that, yes, it's actually highly advanced technology made simple. The bell has to be a certain structure the way they used to make it. Right now they'll ring any bell, which is why nothing happens. But the way the bell used to be done, dating way, way back. And some of the relics still alive to this day are from like the year 600. Some of them are from like the year 150. They're really, really dense and thick, made of really solid metal, and would hold a note for a very long time. So it was intentionally designed in such a way. Essentially the same kind of thing that you would get from a Tibetan bowl that's piercing dimensional riffs through sound alone. And so these were designed with that. And they were very strict about the bell. The bell was. You can't use any bell. It's not just a bell. You're not just ringing a casual bell to make noise. You're ringing a bell designed to cross realms.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: There's a piece of technology that today is casually around, but we don't have that very common old version of making it.
Cristina: So you don't have that anymore?
Jack: We don't have that. Yeah. We don't have the ability to just pierce. But in doing so, people who would be paying respect, people who would be talking about the dead, talking about these spirits, would be doing so around the crier. And priests would do the same thing inside of the churches.
Cristina: They'd also have their own bell.
Jack: They'd also have their own bell. The church would have a bell and the bell would be ringing during. And that one is more powerful. So it does two effects that are very useful. It allows the spirits and the dead on the other side to hear the bell, and it allows them to hear the people around the bell paying their respects.
Cristina: This is very confusing cuz, like why.
Jack: You'Re sending a message, but why do we want.
Cristina: Or why does the church want to attract the spirits?
Jack: You're trying to pay them respect. You're trying to calm them.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: You know, you're trying to tell those that you've lost, they have made it to the other side. Which, by the way, that means they were very aware that people were somehow still acquiring things and making it to the other side. But.
Cristina: But that's not all that's happening. The spirits just would come into the. Like they're making gates that we can't see or portals or whatever you want to call it.
Jack: Well, we already know that churches are to some degree designed for that.
Cristina: Yes. I still am confused on whose side are they on? Because sometimes it feels like this is very Jesus for help. Like to help Jesus with whatever his plan is, but I can't tell.
Jack: Well, no, I think that if we look at the structure of this and we look at the fact that we've lost the existence of the Elysians, of the ancient Mayans, of the ancient Egyptians, of the ancient Greek, they've all kind of vanished into their own thing privately, the knowledge of those who were at least familiar still new. We know that the Jews made the Golem. We know that there's people trying to replicate these things. And although the church was designed intentionally to suppress the existence of Jesus as he was originally just a sea person and Elysian and the rest of the Elysians and the Egyptians and the Mayans and all this stuff, this doesn't stop the fact that there are good people who are from shadow, and there are good people who have gone to shadow. And I think this is a place where you can control the passage because you're not. They're not sneaking through.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: It's a controlled environment, which means those you need to come through can come through and those you don't. How many stories do we have of a monster showing up and attacking a church? Well, none. But why? What's a controlled environment? They're making sure this doesn't happen. Yeah, but people do what at a church? Oh, they'll go talk to their past family member, and they'll go pray to their past family member. Or they'll go communicate with some of the spirits that are on their side from shadow.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: So it seems like a controlled environment where they've figured out how to use the good aspects of shadow without allowing the bad aspects of shadow. But don't get me wrong, we're gonna get to how the bad aspects of shadow come through.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: But it doesn't seem to be church now. It does seem that church figured out how to communicate most effectively and control the situation and have normal, everyday people be able to just communicate with these other individuals. And so this bell is part of that. It's creating a frequency that can cross, allow the words that are spoken around it to then move through with it. And that's fascinating. It's a telephone.
Cristina: Yeah. Crazy.
Jack: Yeah. It's a telephone from Earth to shadow.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And there are many, and only on.
Cristina: This night or night.
Jack: There are nights, and there are times, like a lot of these ancient churches just had the Bell mounted, and they would ring it at 12 o' clock every day.
Cristina: You know, you think that was to do the same thing?
Jack: I think it's the warning of mass and people come together to do the same thing. It's just on this one night, you ring this bell prolonged, and it's the most powerful night. So people come together with the exclusive purpose of communicating.
Cristina: Mm. But they're doing it every day.
Jack: But they're doing it every. Not every day, but they would have, like. I mean, I guess some places would do it every day. There was locations that had church open every day. It would be mass every day. But it's not, like, about reaching the dead. Although I would give you this. People who have found a way across, whether it be adrenochrome, whether it be the fruit, whether it be the flower, tea, or whatever the case is, however they got across people who found a way to cross into alfame after they've died, out into alfame, into shadow after they've died, might still be religious themselves. And then the bell gets rung and the priests giving his mass that allows these people in shadow to still attend mass even though they are in shadow. They can hear and they can see the sermon. They can still be there for their church.
Cristina: Interesting. Yeah, that's cool.
Jack: So the bell alone is a really powerful tool that we've never considered, and it really is just a telephone across two realms, allowing people to communicate back and forth. That's pretty dope. That's just a single part of this.
Cristina: Entire thing, of our traditions and everything.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Next comes the Jack O Lantern. The Jack O Lantern is quite interesting because this instantly got weird. You don't even have to go too far, really. Yeah. Right now we don't know. Oh, we carve pumpkins.
Cristina: Yeah. I see everyone carving pumpkins. Okay, what is it about?
Jack: Yeah, we part carved pumpkins and put lights in them. Oh, how cool. But where does this come from? Okay, this immediately breaks down and it's like, holy s***. So Jack O lanterns were believed to entertain fairies, and as a result were used to ward off evil spirits from purgatory.
Cristina: The fairies were protecting us from the.
Jack: Evil because they were entertained by the creatures.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: But yeah, that brings up an interesting thing. It tells us that the more dangerous creatures of shadow still feel fear. Fairies. Some scaling.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: And that's important, right?
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: So they're in even the most animalistic ones, wet judges, swindingos, things like that that are more like animal. They still have instinct enough to avoid fairies. So although they could Use Halloween Hallows Eve, this ritual to come through. There's the bells. There's a. These lanterns would be put everywhere. And so the faces were designed to entertain the fairies because the fairies would come and hang around them. The fairies aren't actively protecting anybody. They're just going where they find amusing.
Cristina: Yeah, they.
Jack: The creatures from Shadow were like, no, f*** that. There's a fairy there. And so these were put in people's houses, on people's porches, and people's houses in graveyards. These are put at churches. They're put everywhere, really. So you have the phone connecting, and you bring in those that are going to keep you safe simultaneously. So you make a clean link between earth and shadow, and you make sure Elfame inhabitants are chilling in the area, just in case.
Cristina: Okay, that makes sense.
Jack: An entire ritual that already brings all three together.
Cristina: Mm. Get fairies to protect you from the bad ones. Whoa.
Jack: Interesting, right? Normal people figuring out these more complicated things, which would then suggest. How would you, as an individual, from. Let's say you're a creature in shadow. You're a really powerful creature in shadow, and you want to do something, and you happen to have the one and only shadow philosopher so we've heard of, but you need to attract fairies to off them. Well, now you have a way to just get some innocent fairies who are looking to have some fun. You do a thing like this, they're attracted to it. They come through. Got them.
Cristina: Okay. Whoa.
Jack: So we know that although he probably didn't use pumpkins himself, Yaldabaoth most likely found a way to attract fairies in the first place, because why are there fairies just hanging out in shadow that you can just kill and make fairy trees?
Cristina: I don't know. That's a big question. I don't know.
Jack: You must have been luring them in somehow.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And now we know that there's ways to lure them in. This is an example.
Cristina: Do you have more examples?
Jack: No. This is an example. Well, we're talking about Halloween, but there's probably more examples, and we'll find them in due time. But, yeah, the point is there are examples. And that's useful because that puts into perspective the fact that we could lure them. We could attract them. There are ways. There's more gullible, kinder ones that could be tricked. Or maybe they can't. Maybe they won't do the same thing for Shadow. Maybe they're intelligent enough to be like, we're not falling for this. But why would they think something's gonna happen anyways? Why don't they think when they show up over here, one of us has figured out how to do the same thing? Right.
Cristina: Yeah. I don't know. Like, it probably can happen. We've probably trapped fairies. If we looked into those stories. Now that. That's.
Jack: Now that we know.
Cristina: Now that we know, there's probably stories of humans trapping fairies.
Jack: Fascinating. Okay. It's pretty interesting about Jack O' Lanterns, right?
Cristina: Mm. We gotta find out more. Yes. That's awesome. So we got Jack O Lanterns. We got ghost. What about candy?
Jack: Well, hold on. We're not done with the Jack O Lanterns.
Cristina: Oh, okay. Okay.
Jack: Not only would these ward off the bad spirits from Purgatory, but also because of the. This is interesting and brings up a lot. Because of the fairies hanging out around them. The fairies. Now, this actually brings up something interesting that it's confusing to me. The fairies would be, to some degree, visible within shadow, which is why the creatures from Shadow Realm would avoid them. So I'm assuming because bells are being rung and the lights are happening, it's not just audio. It's not just an audio thing, but you can, to some degree, a big enough bell, you're in church, you start seeing things from shadow, and things in shadow start seeing things from Earth. Like, it's a fuzzing of the barrier. So the creatures in shadow can see the fairy and they can see the lantern. That's why they're avoiding it. But this also means that a lot of people were placing these so that the souls of the dead who went to purgatory can find their way to the homes of their families. So it's an easy way for those same people to come specifically where they're going. Because, again, very early, when we were first investigating the Shadow Realm, we know what the shadow realm is. Almost identical, but like a warped version of Earth. So navigating it is not simple.
Cristina: Mm. Because it's not identical.
Jack: It's not identical. It's similar in a confusing way. So these Jack O' Lanterns actually help you. And these people from Purgatory would go from one to the other looking for their families. And the weirdest part is people would report, and there are many of being visited by their family who crossed over.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: This means a lot of people. And I think a lot of these people have to be Catholic specifically, because Catholicism aims to giving people the access to the shadow realm. You're not gonna die.
Cristina: What about with Ouija boards? Do you know when they became popular and they were starting to use that to connect to the dead?
Jack: I Don't know. Had nothing to do with Halloween. I've not come across that while doing this research.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: But definitely, perhaps it's something.
Cristina: I think they probably came up with more than one way to connect to the dead. Besides that, I'm sure there was other things too, like candles and crystal balls. And, you know, they use things. They use things to connect to the dead. It seems like it's not just random things that they have to look spooky. I feel like they use those things to connect.
Jack: Yeah, 100%. It looks like there is a lot of things that. A lot of different methods essentially using the same things. Because you. You say, for example, a candle, but a candle is also what a jack o' lantern is. Like there's similar applications happening between things. So in theory, yes. But then now that you mentioned something like a Ouija board, it makes me think of those seances where you have, like, a pentagram and you're trying to summon a creature. Specifically. Is this a lore.
Cristina: Yes. Right. So they're using objects, but they're also themselves sometimes.
Jack: And very interesting enough now that you mentioned this, there are lures that require you to do what? Add some blood to the mix.
Jack: Interesting.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Some candles, some blood.
Cristina: There's a lot of different ways of doing it, but I'm guessing all of this happened sometime after. Like, the original way that you're talking about was first.
Jack: I don't know if this was first.
Cristina: All of this stuff was added onto it.
Jack: Because it looks like by the time we get to an organized church and an entire town putting up jack O lanterns and things like this.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: They figured it out, and it's organized. So there must have been smaller private versions of this.
Cristina: Oh. Trying, testing.
Jack: Trying and testing different ways to achieve the same thing.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: Technologies that bridge through the realms.
Cristina: Oh, okay.
Jack: And it looks like this is absolutely too organized to fall under. Like, this was the first.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: We mean, these churches have bells, and people come together, and people believe that they're seeing spirits of the dead show up in the church. People believe that spirits of the dead are showing up at their house. Family members and wanderers looking for their families. Like this very Already figured out at this point.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: The fact that they have the jack o lanterns designed in such a way to amuse fairies so that fairies come and hang out and protect them from the bad spirits, but allow the good spirits through and allow the dead through. Interesting. So it seems well thought out by this point. Now, these were also added to graveyards, which is going to lean into a Couple of things. But they were put in graveyards because. And usually either on the tombstone or over the grave burial site. Yeah, Jack O Lanterns. Because although they were expecting people to come to their homes and to the churches, many people died and didn't have family and whatnot. And, like, where would they go? So these spirits and these. The good spirits and the dead would. Who had nowhere to go and nobody calling to them and no family. They would go to the graveyard and spend time with each other and other people from the. It's like coming to visit. And this is essentially a ghost party, okay? Happening in a graveyard where you got the dead who've crossed into purgatory, into the shadow realm, and you've got the good spirits of the shadow realm who are just, oh, let's go mingle on earthrealm. It's that time of year where they make it really easy for us to get there, okay? And so they would essentially have parties. And the gravekeepers would usually be the human who. Because gravekeepers a lot of times were also people themselves who had no family, who had no friends or anything. They would just spend all their time.
Cristina: Maintaining the graveyard, making it safe for these guys.
Jack: They were making it safe for these people. And so they would essentially be the host of the party. They're the. They're the main attraction. And then a bunch of spirits of the dead. Ghosts of the dead. I guess all these terms are wrong because they're technically not even dead. They're just in the shadow room at this point. But they've died, which means they are no longer on this side. But people who have crossed over to the shadow realm and the good spirits of the shadow realm will come and chill, and they would be entertained by and entertained the gravekeepers in the graveyards. And this is where the fear of the grave, of the dead coming to life comes from originally. Because if you remember, you go back far enough through time to before any of this crap existed. Graveyards were parks to chill at. People used to hang out at graveyards. It was just part of what it is. But this fear over time happened. And it's because of the warping of this, because, again, it was always a safe place. Even during Halloween. People who had nobody would join the gravekeeper there.
Cristina: Okay?
Jack: People who had no friends or family lived their own. The hermits.
Cristina: I don't see how this became a scary event.
Jack: It became a scary event because of these outcasts going and hanging with the dead. So as we feed, as we began to develop fear of the dead, we began to fear these people who gathered with them. And then that in collectively, only in modern times did it taboo the graveyard into being a haunted, evil place. But it's not. It's a peaceful place. In most places, it's a peaceful place where the people who are just alone in the world come and join the spirits and the passed on who were alone in the world, and they come and spend time together. That sounds way dope and beautiful. Yeah, they're just coming to have a party with each other. A lot of these people don't know each other. The gravekeeper doesn't know the outcast from the town, the self made outcast, or the hermit. Or these people who live in isolation just by choice. And on Halloween, on Hallows Eve, they would come visit. Hey, you know, I'm here for the thing. And then, you know, big cool party, people talking to each other, the people from shadow, having conversations, telling stories from both sides. So in return, what happens is that these same people become the occultists we know of now. Those who know everything about the other world, but because they're the ones talking to the dead, not about this side, but about that side.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And it's the gravekeepers and it's the outcasts, while family members on this side who have family members on that side do the same thing. They put the lantern, they have the bells, they do all these things, they go to the church, those spirits come through to talk with them about now, about here. How's it been? What are things like since my leaving? You go to a graveyard, I got nothing to tell.
Cristina: So you're learning about the other side.
Jack: So you're learning about the other side. Those are the people who knew the most and probably to this day know the most about the other side.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Those are the sources you go to for information. And it's interesting because going back, a lot of the records that were designed talking about the Shadow Realm were actually written by a bunch of grave keepers. Didn't know this.
Cristina: Really?
Jack: Yeah. Just checked out because I got this bit of information. So I went back to look at some things, typed in some names, and. Oh, they were the person who ran this site that happened to have a graveyard. It's like. Okay, okay, okay. Pattern, Pattern.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: So the most informed people were Pete were gravekeepers and outcasts in general. So you want to know about costumes and candy? Yes. Well, candy is less serious. Candy comes from. That's the middle period. Yeah. So if we break it up into the three parts, there's a technology from the past that Is being used in the middle period and then the current day that was invented in the middle period, the candy, because it would make. Once they lost the fact that this was technology of the past and it just become normal rituals you perform, and people from the other side will cross through. They weren't necessarily aware that they couldn't consume food because they were assuming they were physical beings the same way. And so they would make little cakes to give them. But eventually this got worked out when they discovered, like, the food is always going to waste. And then it became about giving the crier, who was either a.
Cristina: The cakes were for experience.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: Oh, okay.
Jack: Not for the shadow people, but from. For the family members who had passed to come back and eat their favorite things or whatever. But they would never be eaten. So they got repurposed and it started to be given to the criers and the priests who would roam the streets and in the churches. So people would make these cakes and they would give it. So the crier would walk around with the bell, creating the resonance of it. Things could happen. And weirdly enough, I forgot to say this around. Although people would have their own bells, sometimes in the lantern, sometimes the excitement was around the criers and the priests.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Because it's mostly happening around them. They're walking around and around them, there's a bubble, a radius of these crying things coming in and out. And you seeing creatures from the other side showing up and people from the other side showing up around this individual. So you're also putting the lanterns to protect them.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Because they're making themselves a giant beacon. And so as they're walking, people get excited, oh, he's coming, he's coming. Well, before the treats, they would gather and like, okay, if our family member is going to come, it's going to come when he comes through because they're going to be around that individual, and then we'll get a glimpse, we'll get a moment, we'll get to see them again. In church is consistent. The bell's always there. So people who would go to church get to see him. People who didn't go to church still can. As the crier will wander through town, you'd have at least a moment to see somebody. And so you do the things. So if the crier sees a pumpkin, he knows to go there.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And he'll walk from place to place, ringing it and allowing the spirits try to find their place. You're wandering with him, going from place to place, trying to find where they belong. The treats eventually became to they would either take it to church and give it to the priest who's creating the mass and trying to contain the situation, or give it to the crier. As he went from house to house, the crier would go. And also a lot of people would gather around the crier from this side as well, because maybe they haven't seen their person or maybe they're homeless and they're still waiting to see if that person of theirs get seen. Because as he's moving with the bell through the streets over here, he's also technically moving around in the shadow realm.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And so people are like, well, they don't. My person has nowhere to go, so if I hang out around him, then they'll find him and I'll find them. We'll find each other. Some people wanted not just a visit, but they wanted long conversations with this person. So they would just hang out around the crier as he wandered the streets for all of Halloween, they would just wander with him. Hanging out with their ghost friends.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Hanging out with their past, Hanging out with spirits from the. From the shadow realm, having communications with them. It was just an interesting moment that happened once in a blue. Once a year, actually. But you get my point. And so the cakes were repurposed. Instead of leaving them for the past who would never consume them, they were given to first the. The crier and then hand it out. Like, if you made many, you would give them to everybody who showed up. Some people made it for everybody who showed up. All of them accompanying the crier and keeping him safe. Many people walking around with lanterns himself because he's walking around with the bell.
Cristina: They were like big goods.
Jack: They were big goods. Yeah. It was just a cake.
Cristina: Okay. Okay.
Jack: And so a lot of people walked around with lanterns themselves to help the spirits come. So you have a man ringing a bell and a bunch of people with jack o lanterns walking around them, and you're seeing glimpses of creatures who look like ethereal shadows and figures anomalously fading in and out as you're wandering from place to place. Interesting visual. But you go to a door and people are, oh, he's here. They open. They give the person treats, and they give the people food and whatever when they, you know, did our person show up this time? And they'll, you know, those. They'll wait there a moment. Each town had their own. So you could take your time as a crier walking from one place to the other for one place to the other. And you would start at the. At the morning you Would begin not in the night. You would begin at morning.
Cristina: Oh, wow.
Jack: Yeah. And you would light everything in morning. And just this guy's doing this all day. That's why the treats got re repurposed for that individual.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: So now they can maintain him as he goes from place to place. And he waits five minutes, maybe, in front of a place now. Okay, let's go to the next one. And everybody follows him with their lanterns, holding their lantern so that the spirits and the. And the people from. Who've passed can gather around. They can f. They can see the brightest patch, which is the crier.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And then a bunch of smaller dimmer lights, which are the houses, so they know where to go. And then follow him to look at all the places. Oh, this is my family. And then what's happening in graveyard? It's very different than the visual we have now of people just dressed up in costumes, going to trick or treat. But one of the arguments is that the visual of these spirits going to houses with the crier that's dressed in all black and these people hanging out with the crier.
Cristina: That's why the costumes.
Jack: That's one of the root sources of dressing up, trying to imitate that visual.
Cristina: Were the people also dressed up? No.
Jack: No, the people weren't also dressed up. But we're gonna get to that very soon because that is gonna happen. So we have the visual established. Right. People are hanging out. People are chilling with this individual who's ringing the bell. So you've created a circumstance in which good spirits and the dead can return from the other side. So the visual this makes is because of the dead being able to return specifically because we know the spirits are the good ones. The fairies are making sure of that. But the dead are just people from this side. How do the fairies discern who is the good one and who's the bad one? So there are people who have done bad things that resulted in people dying, sometimes by accident, sometimes intentionally. And those people are coming back to the places where this happened, where they've lived their whole lives.
Cristina: So there's no way to protect themselves.
Jack: There's no way to protect themselves from the people coming.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And because of the look that becomes very ethereal to both sides. Everything kind of looks like a shot over there, and everything kind of looks like a shot over here.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: Were fuzzy equivalents of one another. These individuals would dress up like the creatures that they saw on the other side so that the dead that came back wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
Cristina: Okay. So they were dressing up to protect themselves.
Jack: To protect themselves from the people they have done bad to bad.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Because now they're coming back and they could harm me.
Cristina: Yeah. Okay.
Jack: So that was. It was a way to protect yourself, to cover up so you couldn't be harmed.
Cristina: From actual people. Not actual people.
Jack: Yes, actual people. But people who've passed.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And for this one night can most prominently be here and most prominently, see you.
Cristina: Mm. Okay.
Jack: So people would dress up, and it became in such a fashion that I haven't done anything bad. My homie has done bad things. I don't want bad to come to my homie. So I'm gonna dress up too to create a bigger confusion. Because obviously, if only my homie dresses up, all the vengeful people who come back are gonna know, oh, it's just a dressed up people. So if they can tell that it's a costume, they're just gonna focus on finding out who this is. Because I can find them. I know it's one of these. But if good and bad people alike are doing it because a bunch of good people have bad friends, but that bad friend has never done bad to them, so they're still friends. They're like, I'll help you out by also dressing up. And this confuses it. So one, there's too many of us to look through all of us. And two, well, a bunch of us are good people who've never done anything bad.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And we're just protecting you because you're one of us. Even if you hurt good person, there.
Cristina: Could be someone who died who wants revenge because they didn't like you or whatever.
Jack: Yeah. 100%. And as well as you could have killed somebody by accident and they're coming back for revenge, and you want to keep that person safe.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: So it became a collective idea that we all do it and we protect each other. And the people who know where they're going still know the home that they're headed to.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: So the rules still apply equally. You can either go to the church as a spirit, or you can go to the home itself. As the crier approaches and you see that this is your home. And then the people inside don't need to have costumes because those are your people you're looking for. The people going where have the costumes. People on the streets have the costumes.
Cristina: Okay. Protecting themselves.
Jack: Protecting themselves. Because the bubble is around the prior.
Cristina: Okay. Okay. That's very Halloween.
Jack: Like, interesting.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And it just made perfect sense.
Cristina: So it's all connected.
Jack: It's all connected. But now we get to two different weird instances which are very familiar. Instance number Danse Macabre. It is a ritual. So costumes were also used by many people who were pagans, Vikings, and very predominantly in France when performing this ritual. The ritual was of wrist slicing and drinking each other's blood in mass at a graveyard on Halloween after you've destroyed the Jack O Lanterns.
Cristina: Oh, because you want to attract the bad stuff.
Jack: Yes. But you're dressed like it.
Cristina: I don't know if that's gonna help.
Jack: You want. Yeah. Because again, you look fuzzy and weird and different.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: You. They're throwing a party.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: With the monsters.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: This is what I said before. We're gonna come back to the graveyard being an actual scary place. These people were allowing the bad monsters to come through.
Cristina: Awful.
Jack: And they were doing awful things to one another as well as letting, like. They're inviting things that do awful things so they blend in. They're dressed as weird things that creatures from Shadow are like, what the am I looking at? And they themselves are out here performing crazy. That's like, okay, these. Somehow there's something like us. And so graveyards like this would be dangerous.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: These are bad places to be. You could get hurt by one of the creatures there. The people there will hurt you effortlessly.
Cristina: Don't give a the. Are the creatures able to stay there even after the day has passed?
Jack: No, because it is. There is something about the day that's actually. Factually, I don't know what. It's similar to the bridge that was created from the El Castillo in Maya that they used to cross over to Shadow.
Cristina: Oh, yeah.
Jack: And it's like they would use the solstice.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: So there are points in time that, for whatever reason, align the realms just precisely. And this is one of them. It seems like the last day of October is just one of those days that seems to be capable of zoning in and merging these. Not merging them, but getting them real close to each other. At least passage through them.
Cristina: Does it last?
Jack: Okay, this is, like I said, another reason that people would dress up.
Cristina: Mm, cool.
Jack: They would get into their outfits and perform weird rituals.
Cristina: So crazy. Cutting themselves open and inviting dangerous things. Okay.
Jack: And presumably they were pretty s******* their pants too. Even if they were doing it, it was part of the thrill. Which then made it even easier.
Cristina: Oh, yes, the fear. Okay.
Jack: And by destroying the Jack O Lanterns, you get rid of the protection. The second one. The second weird thing here before we close this up is related to the Isle of Man, if you remember. The Isle of Man is where Mananan was assigned to study the other side of the fairy trees.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Okay. So they believed, the people of the Isle of Man, that the morning of October 31, the veil between Earth and Shadow thinned. And by nightfall, it was at its thinnest. Like, that gap became super, super tiny. And now they're very, very close. And that creatures from the other world of shadow could more easily come through and select earthlings would more. Would be more capable of crossing to the other side.
Cristina: Oh.
Jack: So on Halloween, as soon as the sun falls around that period, people could actually stumble upon. People can cross into the shadow realm.
Cristina: Whoa. Do we have those stories, though? Did they say anything of, like, my. My grandmother. I don't know, like. Because they know people who accidentally entered the shadow realm.
Jack: Yeah. And this actually brings us to something very interesting. The judge who would wander into the Forest of Shadows as a shortcut to get to his job. That is very fascinating because now we have two different instances, one with El Castillo and two with Halloween, of times when you could just wander in.
Cristina: Yep.
Jack: And if you could build a gate around one of these instances, keeping it open, you would have to probably activate it on that day, but then the connection is complete.
Cristina: Yeah. We have no idea how that will look like, but we have no idea how that would look like doing that.
Jack: And this judges from a long time ago. But we know that somehow literally traveled into the realm of shadow and collected the fruits. Which then goes to tell us, did l find a way to establish a gate back and forward, which is how he was continuously communicating with Susan. And that being left for God knows how long is how the judge got through. Same area.
Cristina: Oh, no.
Jack: Same period of time. And somehow. And he got through, the guy would cross. And maybe to him, it didn't look like a gate. Or maybe it did. Maybe it looked like, oh, this is just somebody laid out a path here.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: But there are instances of gates other than the ones we're familiar with. People have figured ways.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Although it never seems like there's a way into Elfame.
Cristina: No. As far as we know, no one can get there.
Jack: As far as we know, no one can get there. Which makes it the goal, I suppose.
Cristina: Mm
Jack: But that's how a lot of these traditions arise.
Cristina: Stories on the island of Men, or whatever it's called, the island of people going in.
Jack: There's probably stories of people going in. I don't know of them.
Cristina: Oh, okay.
Jack: I can look into it and find some. But no, that's a. That's where we are. This is the root of current day Halloween.
Cristina: Awesome. Cloud does relate somehow.
Jack: Traditions taken right now, their traditions taken from the midpoint. And those traditions were developed entirely because of lost knowledge and not knowing the origin or how or why things worked the way they worked. Although it seems like the Catholic Church always kind of knew. Mm, you seem to always know. And so, yeah, that's interesting. That's Halloween broken down.
Cristina: Lovely. Happy Halloween, people.
Jack: Happy Halloween, people. Now you know a bunch of stuff. Put some jack o lanterns so you could get some fairies to protect you. Dress up, see the people you've done wrong to, don't come and like cut your throat in the middle of the night, I guess. And bring some bells. Have some. Yeah, bring some bells. Some nice thick bells so you can create a nice strong resonance to cross bridges. And give some people some treats. Cuz why not?
Cristina: Why not?
Jack: They're out there walking and wandering. Might as well. Anyways, if you guys want to contact us, tell us what you thought about this episode, you can hit us up on our socials on X, on TikTok, on Instagram, on Facebook, usconvopod.
Cristina: Remember to subscribe, rate and review the.
Jack: Show and use word of mouth. Tell people with your vocals, especially on Halloween, because apparently you'll be heard everywhere. Let people from the shadow realm know that you enjoy this show and you want them to listen. Maybe, maybe somebody will play. Interesting. We can set up a speaker playing all our episodes just collectively back to back. And then we put a bell next to it that's continuously ringing. We find the right bell and we'll just put this on auto. Put it somewhere. Will we never hear it so that people in the shadow realm. And we put some lanterns there so, you know, people can listen and boom.
Cristina: The graveyard. Lovely.
Jack: Yeah, yeah. They can collect and just podcast listen. Fantastic.
Cristina: This has been the rambling podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Bye.
Jack: California is a s*** show about getting children. Children go missing all the f****** time. Not just in California, primarily in California, but not just in California. In the entire country. On Earth. F*** it. On Earth, children. Epstein's island disappears and we just suddenly have s*** storms of children everywhere else going missing. Yeah, suddenly just f*** it blatantly. Almost like they don't even care anymore. But why? Obviously the best source of adrenochrome is children, and you're a f****** addict once you're on adrenochrome. The blatantness is because your covert secret.
Cristina: Thingy got busted, so why not make another secret thingy?
Jack: How the f*** are you supposed to do that if people are already watching the elites in any island they might be converging on, or any location they might all be visiting? Which would be the place? No. Now it's like our source of it is gone. They'll get to that. They'll get to that 100%. But their source of adrenochrome is gone, which means withdrawal and desperation.
Cristina: Good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by greatthoughts.info art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McAllister, with social media managed by Amber Black.