Rambling 226: Celebrityism
/
Why are people obsessed with celebrities? What’s the psychology behind obsession? What constitutes being a celebrity? The duo unpack celebrities and discuss fanaticism and its effects on the mind!
+Episode Details
Topics Discussed:
- Celebrities
- Stans
- Psychology
- Obsession
- Fame Hate
- Fame Love
- Celebrity Tier List
Our Links:
Official Website - https://greythoughts.info/podcast
Twitter - https://twitter.com/JustConvoPod
Facebook - https://facebook.com/justconvopod
Instagram - https://instagram.com/justconvopod
+Transcript
Cristina: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised.
Jack: Going live in 5, 4.
Cristina: What does live mean?
Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast, the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas. I'm your host, Jack.
Cristina: And I'm your host, Christina.
Jack: And we were just talking about how Yoko Ono just happened to fall in love with John Lennon. It's not her fault. And that is correct. And what you were about to say is that what? John Lennon just happened to fall in love with Yoko Ono. But to everybody else, it was like this big, dramatic like, you b******. You mess everything up. You ruined everything. She ruined.
Cristina: She ruined everything. But she didn'.
Jack: They didn't. They just. All he did was weigh what was more important to him and people weren't angry at what.
Cristina: And he wasn't even choosing her over the band or anything. He loved both equally. That's why she was part of the band. Because he loved the band and joined the band. Yeah. She was always there with them while they were doing their work, and that's probably why they thought she was annoying. But it's because he wanted her there.
Jack: Like, I don't know if she was the band up.
Cristina: No, I don't think so.
Jack: Did they break up when a dude died?
Cristina: Could be that would be him. He died.
Jack: John Lennon died?
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Do they blame her?
Cristina: No, I don't think she blamed her for his death.
Jack: For John Lennon's death?
Cristina: Definitely not. Just some obsessed guy.
Jack: Then what did Yoko Onno do that.
Cristina: She'S hated for being there?
Jack: Why is that an issue?
Cristina: Because she was always there.
Jack: I see how that's annoying, though.
Cristina: That's annoying. That's all. That's all it was.
Jack: It was just annoying.
Cristina: It was just annoying.
Jack: But isn't it that Yoko Ono broke up the group?
Cristina: No. Or I don't think so. Unless the group woke up because they thought she was annoying. But that makes no sense.
Jack: Maybe she was that annoying.
Cristina: She's that annoying.
Jack: She could have been that annoying.
Cristina: I don't think so. Because I feel like they still work together while she was there being annoying until they couldn't. Are you sure it wasn't because he died?
Jack: I don't know. So the question is, this is a what came first, the chicken or the egg situation.
Cristina: Did he die?
Jack: Did he die and they broke up? Or did she join and get so annoying that they broke up and then he died?
Cristina: And there's no way they blame her for his death.
Jack: Did he die not being a beetle? Like, is that the idea Here.
Cristina: No, it looks like they died because they were just tired of live performances.
Jack: They what? They just what? Yeah, live performances. That's what broke it up. We hate concerts.
Cristina: Yeah. Paul McCartney was the only one that was interested in live shows.
Jack: I can imagine. That sucks, dude. Live concerts suck.
Cristina: But the rest of them were like, meh. So it's not her fault. Although she did join probably around the time that they broke up, but she was not really part of the band. So the joke, they're just tired of the band. I think they were tired of the.
Jack: Band while she joined it there. Yeah, she joined it and that's just that. Just the straw that broke the camels.
Cristina: Exactly. She just joined in the wrong time. But she wasn't really joining the band. She's just there too much. Too much. But not really because they were really just.
Jack: Anyway.
Cristina: Yes, with or without her, they were tired.
Jack: It's a matter of when. I guess. She sped that up slightly.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: But it was still coming.
Cristina: Yeah, it was coming. So it's not her fault.
Jack: Interesting.
Cristina: And then Paul. No, not Paul. Who died then?
Jack: John Lennon.
Cristina: John Lennon died 20 years later or 10. 12.
Jack: 12 years.
Cristina: 12 years later, man.
Jack: It's so strange how people see this so differently. Right. Because people are just looking like, this lady ruined it.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: She ruined the Beatles.
Cristina: Yes. Because people actually think they're the greatest.
Jack: Man ever, but he just fell in love. They don't give a s***. They don't care.
Cristina: No.
Jack: That he was just in love. They are like, no, we want high quality music from you and blame something.
Cristina: It's easier to blame her than like, they got tired of each other. It's just easier. It's just easier to say the chick did it.
Jack: So then this talks the psychology of people and their sort of obsession with things. If they. They're obsessed with it, they need to relate to it on a really heavy level.
Cristina: Yes. Yeah, I think so. Even like with Eminem, I'm sure people hate Kim with a passion without even knowing who she is. But just because his stories has Hur portrayed as the enemy, therefore she is. Yes. I'm sure people see her as an enemy, even though it's probably not. They're just characters in his stories. Yes. Like, only he can personally feel anything towards these people. But his fans definitely feel something. Yes. That's made up because he's feeling it, therefore they feel it.
Jack: But like, what's happening in these people? Think of when two celebrities beef and then fans decide to jump in.
Cristina: Dude. Yeah, yeah. Just like, I don't know. Like they feel like they know what's going on when they definitely don't. They just see glimpses of what's happening to this person's life.
Jack: Even if, let's say they had a hundred percent of the information.
Jack: Why the f*** are they saying anything about somebody else's life?
Cristina: Well, if they knew 100%, that's. I don't know. Wouldn't anyone do that?
Jack: Like if he's your best friend screaming at this stranger who just makes good music.
Cristina: If they knew everything about that person.
Jack: That is the case. I mean, maybe the background of the reality of the matter, but who cares? It's not their life anyway, is to be out there judging. But then again, I guess would the argument then be that the point is for that attention of defense involvement? It's kind of part of the thing.
Cristina: I don't know. I don't know. It makes no sense.
Jack: Like if you want to be famous, that kind of comes with it.
Cristina: Exactly. That's the dangerous odd thing about it.
Jack: Mm.
Cristina: That's the uniquely American thing. I feel like. Like, yes, there are famous people in other countries, of course, but I don't know if it's the same as over here. Like if a celebrity over there goes out, is it the same as a celebrity going out in public over here? Like they get the same attention? Are people freaking out as people the.
Jack: Riot over certain celebrities?
Cristina: Exactly.
Jack: Like in other countries too.
Cristina: In other countries, yes.
Jack: I think if you were to put somebody like Lionel Messi and the. Lionel Messi, the. The football player.
Cristina: Oh, okay.
Jack: And you were to put him versus some countries, government. Not a particularly patriotic country. Like, okay, just an average patriotic country. Some normal amount of patriotism. Baseline. And you put those.
Cristina: No, it wouldn't be the same if it was over here. If he was as important to us, he would. It would be different. Like thinking of like Formula one and how they go everywhere in the country and they don't get any. Like. Like when they came to America this last time and the whole celebrity treatment of like introducing each one with a. This is this person and this is what he's known for, even though it's not really. But like, come on, you don't need an intro like that. None of the other formula races had some weird intro about this person that feels very celebrity. Like to give a driver an actual intro. Like he is a celebrity. That is so celebrity.
Jack: That's the most decidalization.
Cristina: Yes. That wasn't like, what, what's that?
Jack: But this is what I'll tell you. That Was only awkward because they've never done it before.
Cristina: But the per. The people that did it was the Americans who.
Jack: No, no, no.
Cristina: Do that.
Jack: People that they were introducing have never done it before. Because we're very used to people just being. Being introduced in America.
Cristina: Yes, America.
Jack: And it being absolutely natural. And we're just like this. Yeah, this is. We don't question it.
Cristina: It literally happens normally because of celebrities. Yes. It's like when we give them awards and crap. It's like a normal for the drivers.
Jack: It's the same thing. It's like when you're in an award show and there's like a. Let's say a roast. It's about the guy they're roasting. But there's a bunch of other people here.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: You don't need to know who the h*** they are. It's about this other guy. But you know, they'll still introduce them and have a little. Oh, it's this guy.
Cristina: Oh, that's still very American.
Jack: And I know it's very American. I'm saying that that's exactly why these people don't get it. And that's why they're awkward when they walk in there.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: And in doing so, because they're not used to this very American tradition, something that would be absolutely normal came across weird because they were stiff and unnatural. But we're used to dumb wack hype men saying irrelevant nonsense. It doesn't check out.
Cristina: It was so unrelated though. It's like so ridiculous. Some of the things they were saying. I can't remember all the things, but like one of them was like he was once his enemy. Now they're riding side by side like that's.
Jack: Oh, it's so enemies.
Cristina: Like everyone. You're competing against his enemies. Like, I don't think he wants to be known as someone's enemy when he was just someone who was writing against him, equal to everyone else. Like there was nothing unique about him. Their rivalry beforehand of being partners. So that information for him to be known as that in this intro makes no sense.
Jack: No. I guarantee you by such a huge, ridiculously large margin that those quotes and those taglines that they were spitting when they were introducing the F1 drivers was in response to the Drive to Survive Netflix television series and the narratives that were.
Cristina: That one specific though. No.
Jack: Which one was it?
Cristina: It was Okon and Gastly. He was saying Okon was. It was Okon's introduction as being the rival to Gastly. But now you guys are partners. But like, no, Okan. Yes. He was his rival, but in a way, like, he's everyone's rival except for whoever his current partner is. Like, that's how he was his rival. He wasn't his specific rival. What a dumb intro. What a dumb intro. Of all intros. That's the most embarrassing intro of all intros. Like, why even give Oukan an intro if you're gonna do him like that? Because you can say that about anyone. You could be like, anyone. De Breez is Max's rival. The breeze. Like, who cares? Who cares? You're all rivals. Even partners are rivals. Like, what are you saying? That means nothing to anyone. That's just saying things to say things. Dumb intro.
Jack: Why do we do that? Why do we do the intro? But as I'm thinking this, as I'm thinking this, like, why do we do this? I bet. I bet this total perspective mindfuck moment right now that when, like, our president visits a different country and we see a complete ceremony done by people from a different country, and we're like, oh, that's fascinating. You know, what a weird presidential thing. Well, mention that in any other situation, somebody goes to whatever, and there's a whole thing that happens. The people of whatever group of people is performing the thing are probably like, man, why do our people always do this s*** when people come over? What the f***?
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: The same way we're reacting to our own stuff. This is just what Americans do.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And so they all. They're also. We go to their country and they throw us a big party in a way that we're like, oh, wow, this is cool. Foreign party. Their people are like, man, why are they always going to that ancient s***? We party like normal people out here. Meanwhile, they're doing the whole ritualized thing because it is really weird. It is so weird. But whatever. That's what we do.
Cristina: I don't know.
Jack: America. I don't know.
Cristina: We should just stick to just doing the national anthem like every other country. Or at least with that. It feels like that's all they do. They just like, here is our song and some fireworks.
Jack: Yes. And then we go the end balls out through a whole introduction.
Cristina: Here's some C list celebrities. D list of celebrities. I don't know. What do you think of LL Cool J? Where's his list? Where is he on your list of celebrity? He's not a list.
Jack: You think there's a tier list of celebrities?
Cristina: There is a tier list. There's definitely a tier list.
Jack: Like, I. I guess somebody had to literally make this at some point. Because everybody on Earth knows about just calling somebody an A lister. It must literally be a list. Of course there would be.
Cristina: I don't know if there's actually a list. But still, in your mind, like a.
Jack: Collective we all agree on.
Cristina: What do you think of LL Cool J and Will? I am. Where are they on your list? They're not your S tier. They're not even your A tier.
Jack: Oh, crap.
Cristina: There's no way.
Jack: Okay. S tier is small, right? Let's go. So then. No, they're not in my S here. I'm just trying to calculate the size and, like, how hard it would be to get into any of these tiers. They're definitely not us too. That's an impossibility for either of them.
Cristina: S here is probably, like Leonardo DiCaprio. Like, he's not.
Jack: I think he's a definitely.
Cristina: Really?
Jack: It's like, I think he's like top tier A.
Cristina: Well, like, him and Tom Hanks aren't doing the best they can. Like, they're so skilled, I think. I think, like, think about it. Like, I'm not saying they're not. I guess they're. They like, think what?
Jack: So we're a Tom Hanks.
Cristina: Tom Hanks.
Jack: S tier celebrity.
Cristina: Oh, no, I'm thinking of actors. Okay. Yes. As celebrities. Know, as actors. There's got their S tier. As celebrities.
Jack: No, definitely the top.
Cristina: Yes. Yes. Okay. Celebrities. No, no, no, no, no. But as. Yeah, I was. Because I think I forgot.
Jack: S tier is like celebrity wise. Doesn't matter where the h*** you are. I feel like the queen's more known than Jesus. Think about that real quick. Think about that real quick.
Cristina: The Queen, Taylor Swift is S tier for some reason.
Jack: Yeah. That's a real phenomenon. If the BTS guys. Yes, they are S tier. As. Yeah, they might be the topest. S tier. They might be David Hasselhoff. That's strong, dude. I guess well known.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Jackie Chan.
Cristina: Yeah. Okay. These are like worldwide.
Jack: Worldwide. These are global phenomenons.
Cristina: Yeah. Okay. So where is ll Barack Obama and.
Jack: Donald Trump a tier S though? They were both S. No, I think a what?
Cristina: In the moment they were S. But I feel like now that they're not.
Jack: Everybody'S going to know who they are.
Cristina: But I think, like, slowly it'll fade away.
Jack: I mean, I guess about as the same way that, like, I bet.
Cristina: I think the Queen will last a little longer than them.
Jack: H*** yes.
Cristina: Exactly.
Jack: Like, that's stapled forever, I think. So the Pope is us here.
Cristina: Yeah, maybe.
Jack: H***, yes.
Cristina: Yeah, yeah.
Jack: Everybody else.
Cristina: Okay. But the Two main dudes I want to know is, where is LL Cool J and Will? I am. Well, we gotta work our way of celebrities.
Jack: We gotta work our way down to get to where we believe there'll be a lot of comment. We got to put other people in that category before we can really tell.
Cristina: So we got these S tiers.
Jack: We got a bunch of S tiers. They're definitely not there. Who are A list celebrities. A list level of fame and contribution and knownness.
Cristina: I don't know every actress and music artist that's known. I don't know a lot of them. A lot of them.
Jack: Like Jennifer Lawrence.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And Johnny Depp.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And Jason Momoa. No, no.
Cristina: Which one's Jason Momoa? Isn't he that guy that you don't find attractive? Yeah.
Jack: His face is so ugly, but women love him.
Cristina: Yeah, but I don't think that's an A tier. Like, he's very recent and he's. I don't think he's that known. He's known for one role that's like a. That's a. That's a one hit wonder.
Jack: No, he's also.
Cristina: He's a one hit wonder.
Jack: Aquaman. And he's a guy in the. The. The. The Game of Thrones.
Cristina: They only care about his Aquaman appearance. That's a one hit wonder. Okay.
Jack: Isn't Game of Thrones a picture?
Cristina: I don't think. I don't think so. No, no.
Jack: He was in stuff.
Cristina: He's in stuff. I'm sure. But he's only. He's a one hit wonder with ladies. They only care about him as a fish man. That is it. He. That was his one who hit one day. Yeah. Merman. He's more of a DC maybe. He's only known for one movie and that movie wasn't great. It was just. He was hot in it.
Jack: You only know him for one thing. He's seen a couple of things, but.
Cristina: None of them are, like, amazing. No one's talking about them. What are they? You don't even know what they are. I'm sure you just know that he's in things. There's many celebs, many actors and actresses.
Jack: Who are in things and many more that. Yeah, I know. Fair. Okay, okay. Like, I can't defeat that point.
Cristina: He's a C at best.
Jack: Fair enough.
Cristina: No, I feel like he's not. He's.
Jack: No, no, no. He's like. He's upper C, lower B. I'm not having this discussion.
Cristina: He's not B.
Jack: He's well Known it. Well, we got.
Cristina: No. Being known for one thing doesn't count.
Jack: Well, look, listen to me, listen to me. We haven't even put people in a. To know.
Cristina: We did. I put Obama and Donald Trump as a no, because we're putting the Queen.
Jack: As S. No, they're the Pope. They're definitely. They're not s. They're not as known, but there's like, there's a bottom of us. Who cares?
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Bottom of s. Yeah, the bottom of us. But they're still known globally. But, like, way globally. Do you understand? Like, that's the goal here. They're super ultra known.
Cristina: He's not Obama. No. The fish man.
Jack: No, I'm just saying that they. That Obama and Trump belong in that state.
Cristina: Okay, so who goes in a. Most celebrities.
Jack: Leonardo DiCaprio. I don't think he's super mega, ultra global. That's an A tier celebrity. He's very well known.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: He's globally known, but not extremely. It's like people know him around the world.
Cristina: Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're not obsessed like Taylor Swift.
Jack: Okay, Taylor Swift.
Cristina: That's S tier. And Pete bts.
Jack: Bts? Yeah.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And who else is looking for a. A tier? Clooney. Eminem. George Clooney is Eminem. Bottom S. How well known is Eminem?
Cristina: Pretty well known.
Jack: Well, okay. Argument. There are some people so well known, they're known by the teenagers as well as the adult. But there are globally known people that aren't so well known. And I think BTS actually gets knocked down a hard bunch and comes way to the bottom of S tier. When you consider the fact that throughout the history of the Queen's life, only until recently was it not important who the Queen was to the entire world.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: She was known by everyone.
Cristina: We just put her in S here and then everyone else in a tier. Yeah.
Jack: That pumps a lot. That's a real hard. Same thing with the Pope.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: It's such a huge deal.
Cristina: Okay. Her and the Pope and.
Jack: Yeah, like, that's a real special other cat. No.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Because then Taylor Swift is actually the top of a.
Cristina: The top of it. Okay. All right. Okay. So then we got a lot of A tiers. We got 2s tiers. That sounds right.
Jack: So wait, now we're confirming the Trump, Obama, Taylor Swift, bts. That's. Those are super mega stars. A tier.
Cristina: A tier.
Jack: Super A tier.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: But d***, now B tier is gonna. It's gonna feel way wrong. Maybe there's still the bottom of a**. Right?
Cristina: I don't know. Because Eminem is eight here.
Jack: Yeah, he would fit there.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Oh, he would be sick. The bottom of S if he was.
Cristina: No, he's now A. They're all A. So that we can have some B now, Jade. LL Cool J and a B.
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: Stop lying.
Jack: He's. He's pretty well known. He's kind of.
Cristina: Who?
Jack: In the United States?
Cristina: Absolutely the United States.
Jack: Then outside of the United States. By pockets of people. For sure.
Cristina: Pockets of people in the United States. Not all of the United States.
Jack: All of the United States very well known. And then pockets of people outside of the United States.
Cristina: Because I don't know him very well. I know that he rapped once.
Jack: A pocket and what else?
Cristina: And maybe he was acting. I don't really know anything though.
Jack: Have you ever heard his music?
Cristina: I don't know.
Jack: How do you know all this?
Cristina: That's all I know. I know he was known. Is that good enough? Just being known to be known?
Jack: Is being famous, the celebrity?
Cristina: I don't know because I don't know anyone who's crazy about him. Doesn't that count as something?
Jack: That's why he's not s tier.
Cristina: Ah. Or a tier or a tier. Does that make him be tier?
Jack: I guess obsession would throw them in a tier depending.
Cristina: How many people are very obsessed Matter a lot when it comes to being celebrity. Not right. That's what we're talking about.
Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Cristina: Not how well he is in any of his crafts, but how much people are obsessed with him.
Jack: How many people love them and how much.
Cristina: And you think many people are in love with him? Is it how many people are in love with him? Or just people who know of him? That's two different things. Or like the higher up you are, the more people love you.
Jack: I think evil parts. It goes up equal parts. And the more intense the hate too.
Cristina: Yes, but he doesn't get any hate or love. Or he does get some love but not really much hate. I think he's not much love either. Cause like who cares? LL Cool day. Who cares? He's from the 80s. Our parents maybe.
Jack: But you know of him without knowing s*** about him without ever having.
Cristina: Because.
Jack: That'S.
Cristina: That's super celebrity super is like. What's his name? Michael Jackson, who's dead. But still I hear his music. I like his music. A tier he did maybe LL Cool J. How many songs do you know from him name in the song? He had probably a one hit wonder. He. I think he's a one hit wonder type of dude.
Jack: So exaggerated.
Cristina: I think he is LL Cool J.
Jack: Had a lot of good songs, I guarantee you.
Cristina: I bet not.
Jack: I bet you heard a lot of them.
Cristina: I bet not. I bet I heard like one or two.
Jack: That's. That's an interesting art because you can.
Cristina: Be famous with just one awesome thing. No, like, that's all it takes to be famous. Like Rick Roll, he's famous for making a film.
Jack: That's such a special instance.
Cristina: No, it's not. There's many celebrities who are just one hit wonders. And he might be one of them. I'm not saying he is one, but I'm sure he is one. You're gonna look for his songs. You're gonna see how many of them you know how many of them you know.
Jack: Mama said knock you out.
Cristina: You love that song.
Jack: I don't love that song.
Cristina: You just know that song.
Jack: Okay, but you also know that song. Song.
Cristina: Okay, yes, and I know that they liked it. But do I care?
Jack: You have to like it some. A lot of people will love them. You're in the hater group. You're not in the intense hater group. But it's also a spectrum of haters and lovers.
Cristina: Yes, and I just don't care.
Jack: Yeah, you're in the apathetic hate side.
Cristina: And was he even care, like was he awesome in that song or was he just one of the people in that song? And also, that's just one song. That proves he's a one hit one there. Unless you name another song.
Jack: Fear I should at least see one more song.
Cristina: Just name one more song.
Jack: Just one.
Cristina: I know there is, but if you don't name it, then he's a one hit wonder.
Jack: You believe? I can see at least one. This goes way back.
Cristina: I. Because he's from the 80s.
Jack: 85. Jesus. Something. Something's gonna say that he's not.
Cristina: He should have been on this one. But until you name it, he's the one hit wonder in our books.
Jack: So far.
Cristina: Just one song, man. One other song. I mean, no, no, just by the title. Can you figure it out?
Jack: Because just anything being remembered is what leads to fame, right? Oh, man, I almost said knockout. Came out pretty late. Yeah, man, I guess you said I don't know any of this. I don't know, bro.
Cristina: Exactly. But if you look the list of like Michael Jackson songs, you know, I would know. You would know.
Jack: So many of them.
Cristina: You would know. So is this a one hit wonder? Is he really? Actually, no.
Jack: I think he was. I think a local. Was a real cultural phenomenon, but I think it was primarily in The United States. And I think it was for a brief moment in history and I think people remembered. It's not a one hit wonder. He had a lot of music that a lot of people do know off the top of their heads. He's very well known. People sing along at his concerts that sell out or do.
Cristina: Do they.
Jack: Okay, you got my point. Like it was. Yeah, it was real big.
Cristina: A celebrity back then should still be considered a celebrity right now. Currently, like yes, maybe once upon a time he was an A or an S if you want to say. I doubt S. But you can say A. Sure.
Jack: Oh, you can. Once upon a time is your argument. Yes, interesting.
Cristina: So you see currently what he was.
Jack: You're seeing one day Eminem might be a D tier.
Cristina: It's possible, but it's possible not because we have Michael Jackson as an example of someone who has not from.
Jack: In the past and. Yes, but he. I mean, I guess he didn't. Yeah, he didn't die that long ago either.
Cristina: He died a while ago.
Jack: He became White Jackson. He lived a white man's life for a couple of years. He died in like 2009 or something.
Cristina: 2009 was quite a while ago.
Jack: 10 years ago. It wasn't like he died in the 80s and he's still super prominent. But I bet if he died in the 20s, I bet 40 years from like, you know who's in.
Cristina: He died in 2009. Yeah.
Jack: You know who's the next tier celebrity? Because we can push the Queen down maybe. I bet Hitler is an S tier celebrity.
Cristina: No.
Jack: So well known.
Cristina: But you also have to be equally as liked as hated. And he has no like he's just known and hated. There has to be a combo of all three happening. Interesting, because also there has to be obsession as well. I guess the obsession is counted as a mixture of the three of like he's known, he's loved and he's aided, therefore he's obsessed over.
Jack: He must be known, he must be loved, he must be hated, therefore obsessed over. That's so.
Cristina: I like that he's obsessed. It's kind of like in between. In between. Yeah, yeah.
Jack: I guess the obsession is the name of both those things. Otherwise they're just abstract emotions.
Cristina: Yeah, like John Lennon that we were talking about earlier. He was obsessed. Someone killed him.
Jack: Obsessive.
Cristina: He was. It was obsessive. It was hate, but it was love. There was love that was.
Jack: Why was it love?
Cristina: Because that person was a fan and then he felt like he turned on him, therefore he hated him, therefore he had to die.
Jack: Strong emotion.
Cristina: Exactly. That's. That is what being a celebrity.
Jack: But also that. Here's what I'm thinking about this too.
Cristina: Right.
Jack: You. Because in a situation like that. That's not that John Lennon was so much of a celebrity, so freaking famous. There's more famous people. It's the fact that he was famous enough to be known by so many people that he was bound to be known by an unstable person.
Cristina: But he was world widely known. Like he was famous not just from his country. He was. The world knew him.
Jack: Yeah. Think about how many unstable people must have known about the Queen.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: That maybe would have made a move if it was even possible. But we just don't hear about it because it gets taken down before it even starts.
Cristina: That's true. Yeah. How many people you think went after ll Coogee?
Jack: I don't think anybody has ever gone after ll Coogee.
Cristina: Do you think anyone went after Michael Jackson? I think his family.
Jack: I bet so.
Cristina: I think so too. Yes, I think so.
Jack: I bet. Yeah. Somebody at some point.
Cristina: There is a difference.
Jack: I bet. I bet somebody really tried to stand out. Eminem. I bet that's real.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: I bet they tried to do that. The little win.
Cristina: Yeah. There just some people, you know, like. Yeah. Their life isn't that safe because they're a celebrity.
Jack: I know David Hasselhoff doesn't go around trusting people.
Cristina: Yeah. But do you think LL Cool is suffering that?
Jack: No, I think LL is in fact fading into obscurity.
Cristina: So you think it's A, B, C, D. Yeah.
Jack: The argument is where? Inside his. Yeah. So I would say CC right now, you see. Yeah. Like a low because B would be known here heavily. And then pockets everywhere.
Cristina: And what would cb So C would just be like. It's here.
Jack: Pockets just really well in one place or pockets all over the place. And so he's somewhere in like C, right.
Cristina: Yeah, I think so. Like, there's people who definitely like, know him. I don't know if obsessed with him, but there's definitely people who know him well. People who probably really hate him. But then it's not as. It's not the world. It's not.
Jack: Yeah. He has significantly. So then the argument is that, yes, if you are falling off of the ranks, you're eventually going to fade into obscurity.
Cristina: The time. Unless. Yes. Except for those few like Michael Jackson. Like, it's just different. It's just different.
Jack: Yeah. There was something so phenomenal that's gonna last forever. Think Frank Sinatra.
Cristina: Frank Sinatra.
Jack: Now the Question is, is Frank Sinatra global?
Cristina: No. He might be. Frank Sinatra.
Jack: Very American.
Cristina: No. Oh, crap. B. I'm gonna give him a B. If I'm putting Michael Jackson in B, I guess I'll put Frank Sinatra in Brie.
Jack: Interesting. Are we to say music is more powerful than acting?
Cristina: No, I don't think so. I think it depends on the person.
Jack: In the case of Frank Sinatra, we can't compare him because it was both.
Cristina: Yeah, but LL coolj has been in movies and shows and stuff, and, like, do you care about any of that?
Jack: Well, here's a question. Is LL Cool J less or more famous than his counterpart Ice Cube or his other counterpart, Ice T?
Cristina: Is there something about Ivy having ice in their name? Why is there. Which one is Ice T? I remember Ice Cue. I just. I don't remember Ice T. Ice T.
Jack: Is the one who's in all the line order shows.
Cristina: That's not Ice Cube. Oh, crap. I don't know who's.
Jack: I see. Ice.
Cristina: Oh, I know. Ice Tea. Okay.
Jack: It's the guy from that movie where he was like, babysitting some children or something.
Cristina: That's not iced tea. I think that's ice tea, too. Are you sure?
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: No, it's not Ice Cube. Oh, my gosh. What's the difference? Oh, my gosh. No, no. It's just Google is not being nice to me. Ice Q, ice Tea. They're not the same. Ice Q is younger than Ice T. Yeah. There's no way they were around the same time.
Jack: No.
Cristina: Okay. Ice T&LL Cool J, maybe, right?
Jack: Ice T&LL. Yeah, I guess. Yeah. They must be closer by default.
Cristina: Ice Cube is lame. Ice Tea I think is cool. Although he's just in law and ordered. I think that's cool about him. There's something whack cool about him that I think Ice Cube and LL Cool J are just whack. But I think.
Jack: No, I'll give you this. That there's some. The problem is Ice T has this characteristic that makes him a really chill. Like, he's a really chill guy, but he's like straight up, like, he'll be dangerous if he has him. He's old school gangster type.
Cristina: Yeah. And not like these other guys probably try to act, but, you know, you don't feel it. Yeah.
Jack: And I don't literally mean he's been in gangs. I don't know. But I mean that kind of personality.
Cristina: Of a real attitude that you can believe.
Jack: Yeah. Like, he's not. He's. Yes. He's just a powerful character. That comes across honest. It doesn't put. Come across like a front.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And those other guys are just like. I mean, you're probably making it up, bro.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: You're probably the first one to make it up.
Cristina: Yeah. How's Snoop Dogg? What do you think he is?
Jack: Snoop Dogg goes hard. That dude might definitely be like an a tier celebrity.
Cristina: Dr. Dre.
Jack: Hey. He's. He's interestingly enough becoming only a name. And what he looks like is fading into the background. Which means he is slowly fading into obscurity. He would be. He might be at the bottom of A or at the top of B. I wouldn't say the top of B. I think that's it.
Cristina: Top Will I am. We never got to him, man.
Jack: Here's what's crazy. I'm really familiar with who Will I am as and at the same time.
Cristina: I think he's a little bit cringe.
Jack: He is. He's very cringe. And I don't really know him. Like I, I know I. But also don't know him. Like, I don't follow him. I don't. I'm never interested in finding out more. He's just when he's there, like, cool. He showed up.
Cristina: He's a singer, but he's not a celebrity.
Jack: So he is a celebrity, but he's just like way down there. Tier. He's the type of celebrity who has a lot of fans spread out throughout the world. Not that he has a lot of fans in the world. No, he has a lot of fans.
Cristina: He has.
Jack: They are all spread out across the world. You get my point.
Cristina: He has fans and they're across the world. I wouldn't say a lot of fans.
Jack: Yeah, exactly like he has. Maybe the average musician has. Let's say Michael Jackson is too exaggerated. Who's more normal based? Average Ice cube. You think? No, that's way lower. I am thinking like Jimmy Fallon. Jimmy Fallon's a baseline celebrity.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: I guess he's been on late night long enough.
Cristina: Kids. I guess there's people who like it.
Jack: I don't know who he is. Maybe they don't necessarily know where he started or his history, but they know of him.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: He's very baseline guy.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: What was my point?
Cristina: That Liam is baseman.
Jack: I guess Will I am is relative.
Cristina: To like people know him, but who cares?
Jack: I think he's less known than Jimmy Fallon.
Cristina: He's less.
Jack: I think William is less known than Jimmy Fallon.
Cristina: I don't think people care about Jimmy Fallon either though.
Jack: But I think he's well Known. I think it's fair. A lot of people like him and a lot of people don't.
Cristina: Yeah. Which is being part of a celebrity. So.
Jack: Which is being part of celebrity.
Cristina: But do a lot of people like and hate? Well, I am. I don't even know if a lot of people hate him.
Jack: I know a lot of people hate him. Which means equal parts.
Cristina: I like. They hate more the band. I don't know if they hate him. I don't know if he's that famous that they're looking at him.
Jack: It's possible they just hated Fergie without knowing it.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Because she left and then the music spike into quality was ridiculous.
Cristina: Yes. I don't know.
Jack: Like, they were just fire.
Cristina: But they were no one without before her. They were no one.
Jack: She brought the fame. She brought the fame and they actually couldn't really sustain it.
Cristina: Yeah. So once she awkward.
Jack: And then she. She went to still be a famous musician on her own.
Cristina: Yeah. How embarrassing is that?
Jack: She brought the face. They don't know how to market themselves. Their marketer is Will. I am.
Cristina: Dude, they suck.
Jack: He's some stupid.
Cristina: If she's standing out over them when she has a froggy like, voice.
Jack: Yes. Alone. She's standing alone above these three grown men.
Cristina: Good. They're decent. I guess.
Jack: Yeah. They're okay.
Cristina: They're okay.
Jack: They're okay. Like, look, I wouldn't b out if. Okay. This goes back to this original point of this conversation, which is you don't even got to like, will I am or care. People are so weird. It would still freak out if they saw him at an airport. Oh, my.
Cristina: I probably wouldn't notice him.
Jack: I'm in them people. You'd notice him because everybody's going to be freaking out. They don't give a s*** about him. Never had a single unless he had.
Cristina: A shirt on that said, well, I am.
Jack: People would know. Some people would make a big deal and some people would gather around him. I bet it's annoying.
Cristina: Maybe one person would whisper, hey, isn't that William? I feel like that's what would happen.
Jack: Like, do you think we could just find Will? I am casually walking.
Cristina: Yes. Without interrupt. Yes.
Jack: 100%.
Cristina: 100%. I feel like maybe you'll be like, doesn't that guy look like William?
Jack: Could we find them being followed by people?
Cristina: No, I don't think so. That's a true celebrity. But no, I don't think Will I am in that type of celebrity where people are like, oh, my gosh, do.
Jack: You think it's Staged when people do that. If he does have people following him.
Cristina: Yes, I would definitely think that. Yes. Like, if it was someone like Keanu Reeves, I would be like, oh, that's Keanu Reeves.
Jack: Wait, you think Keanu Reeves is global phenomenon?
Cristina: I think so. In the. Maybe not global, but American phenomena. Yes.
Jack: Are there movies like John Wick in other countries or is that also very American?
Cristina: That's probably American, but I don't know.
Jack: Super Mega awesome Man. Awesome man.
Cristina: Yeah. I think we love him.
Jack: And superheroes and he's essentially a superhero.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: I don't. Man. There's something wrong with the world he lives in.
Cristina: Why?
Jack: What?
Cristina: Everybody's a hitman, so that's the world he lives in. That's.
Jack: I guess it's Earth. Or if it is.
Cristina: It is. Yeah.
Jack: Where everybody in New York is a hit person, so. But not even in.
Cristina: Just in Fast and Furious. They're all geniuses who fight crime easily and whatever. Like, they're all super strong, super smart, super everything. The Fast and Furious people are perfect in every way. Like Keanu Reeves is and John Wick. That doesn't even make sense. This doesn't make sense. What are you talking about?
Jack: It does not. I still believe John Wick versus Fast and Furious would be amazing.
Cristina: I know. Someone make our movie. It's a great movie. Buy it.
Jack: Yeah, buy the idea off.
Cristina: Come on. Dom, or whatever your real name is, what type of. What celebrity rating will you give him? Who? Dom. Whatever.
Jack: His real name is Diesel.
Cristina: Ben Diesel.
Jack: He's bottom.
Cristina: No, he's upper C. You're an S tier to me. Bendy Ben Diesel. I don't even know his name.
Jack: In your personal list. He's an S tier.
Cristina: You're an S tier. Buy my movie.
Jack: He should tell. Oh, fair enough. Yes. Vin Diesel.
Cristina: Vin Diesel. Vin Diesel. Vin.
Jack: What did you call him?
Cristina: Ben.
Jack: Ben Diesel.
Cristina: Who calls their child Vin Diesel? His name is not really Ben.
Jack: Maybe he thought it was cool. He. Come on, dude. He's the type of guy who would think a name like that is edgy or something. His name is really Vin.
Cristina: I don't know. It's gotta be. No, it's Mark.
Jack: Mark quote. Vin.
Cristina: Mark Sinclair.
Jack: His whole name is a stage name.
Cristina: Yeah, his name. He's got the whitest name. Oh, my God. Mark Sinclair. I'm very shocked. Well, Mark Sinclair, you are S tier.
Jack: Okay?
Cristina: I'm so obsessed with you, Mark. Your name is so beautiful. I love it.
Jack: Are you disappointed by the name?
Cristina: I'm more disappointed in Vin Diesel being his stage name than I am of his actual name. His actual name is beautiful. It's like an angel's name. I don't know why he would replace it with Vin Diesel.
Jack: Mark Sinclair.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Okay. An angel's name.
Cristina: Yes. Mark Sinclair. That's so cute. That is so cute. Vin Diesel.
Jack: Yeah. He wants to be totally jacked, bro. Wants to be all swole. He wants his name to be all swole. Diesel. I'm all swole. He shaves his head.
Cristina: Dominic Toretto. That's so crazy. That's not his real. His stage name.
Jack: Exercise neck, folds more. That's why he shaves his head so that's more visible.
Cristina: Oh, my gosh.
Jack: He's all swole. He shaves his whole body so he looks more swole.
Cristina: Vin Diesel, you're great. I love you. You're S class. Make some more Chronicles. Everettic movies, please.
Jack: Actually, yeah, do that, please. But also buy this movie.
Cristina: Buy this movie and just say that it was inspired by our storytelling. It doesn't have to be money. What?
Jack: Pay us. He should buy it from us.
Cristina: Oh, yeah. But I don't want him to say that it's based on it. I want him to say specifically inspired. We inspired him. Sounds so beautiful.
Jack: It's poetic.
Cristina: It's poetic. Yeah.
Jack: He inspired him. That's total cop out too. I'm sure many movies say inspired by the events of. And it's like, what? What do you mean?
Cristina: Yes, yes. Inspired by a conversation of these two random people. How do we introduce ourselves? Jack and Christina.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: Yes. Beautiful. I love it.
Jack: Inspired by the conversations with Jack and Christy.
Cristina: What? Of these random people?
Jack: Of these random people.
Cristina: Jack and Christy. What? How awesome would that be on the screen? Or should we hear a voice with it should just say it. No, I feel like it should just say. And you read it and it's like, wow. What do you think?
Jack: I think that's a great, phenomenal plan. But no, I'm just thinking like, we are crazy as people, right? Humanity is obsessed with celebrity. We're very, very obsessed with celebrity. We idolize them, we follow them. We can't differentiate between when something one, involves us and two, when it's real or how to react. Sending death threats to somebody.
Cristina: Yes. People dying over that.
Jack: But I wonder how. It's just a numb. I bet. I bet those death straps are serious too. When you just think of the statistic probability of the people they're grabbing so many people.
Cristina: I bet Nintendo is more famous than both Vin Diesel and LL Cool J. In celebrity wise is higher class. Yes. Probably a Class. It's not even a person. And I think it's more famous than the actual.
Jack: Now we're. Now we're going back to the S classes because obviously Apple and Samsung. Yeah, without a doubt.
Cristina: Yeah. Yeah. I think there's some companies that are more human beings. They're probably like a class. I wouldn't say S class car dealers.
Jack: Nissan isn't globally famous.
Cristina: I don't know. I don't know what they are to most of the countries.
Jack: Maybe we're the only people over importing them.
Cristina: Cars are very specific to countries.
Jack: Disneyland is a class.
Cristina: A class. Yeah. It's. It's in around the world.
Jack: It's like high up a. Mm. It's almost us.
Cristina: It's almost us.
Jack: Children know about Disney and Disneyland. Adults know about Disney and Disneyland.
Cristina: And there are Disneylands spread out throughout the world.
Jack: S***. It might. I think everybody knows about Disneyland in s***. Disneyland might be higher up than the Queen.
Cristina: Disneyland.
Jack: You think Disneyland is more known than the Queen?
Cristina: If you're counting children, yes.
Jack: Everybody. Just fame in general.
Cristina: Yeah. I don't know. I think because it's so many places, I think it's. There's one in Paris. I think there's one, like, in Japan.
Jack: And everybody wants to go. And it's supposed to be this wonderful, great place. Place.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: It's become tradition for some people.
Cristina: Yes. Like, when you think of summer, you think of, like, I want to go to Disney. Or like, celebrities, for some reason, their answer to winning. What are you going to do? I'm going to go to Disney. That was a weird stereotype of, like, what celebrities should say when they win a reward or something. I don't know.
Jack: Go to Disneyland.
Cristina: Why would they actually want to do that? These professional players?
Jack: Like, I want to go to Disneyland. Yeah, that. Okay, fair enough. It would be great if they did it super out of, like, the mood.
Cristina: Like, if they actually meant it.
Jack: Yeah. If they were like, I just finished beating Anderson Silva in an MMA fight and the announcer walks up to me, there's like, you've won. What are you gonna do with the victory money? And I'm like, I want to go to Disneyland. Like, that's such a contrast.
Cristina: I think those people were paid to say those things. So, like, there's no way all these celebrities actually want to go to Disneyland.
Jack: You think they're just advertising Disneyland?
Cristina: Yeah, I think Disney could afford that.
Jack: When you. Yeah. When you reach a certain level of fame, anything you say is marketable. See, so if you're like, I love Cheerios and You're Obama. Suddenly all your followers love Cheerios. It's the greatest cereal ever.
Cristina: Actually, that's part of being a celebrity that we didn't even talk about. Oh, yeah, yeah. People obsess over the things. You seemingly obsess. Not even.
Jack: Don't even have to obsess.
Cristina: You just like it.
Jack: You like it one time and they'll wear it forever.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Obsession is a weird thing, man. So. But obsession is essentially catching people. No. Because you could be a normal person, see a celebrity and freak out. That's another thing you have to be able to do. You have to flip casual people.
Cristina: That's what being a celebrity is.
Jack: That's part of it. That's another part of it. Like a person who most people are like, oh, yeah, he's Bob. He's always like that. But every time Bob sees a guy who plays Neil, what is it? Neil Swanson. Ron Swanson. His name is Nick Offerman. Every time he sees Nick Offerman, he spazzes out. Because that's his example of a manly man. But any other moment, he's just a casual, quiet, like, tree cutter guy. He's a super mega fan of Nick Offerman. Super fan of, like. They gotta flip normal people.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Into this crazy panic. I know. Michael Jackson made that happen. Or he was so famous. He also grabbed the people that are crazy like that. And those are the people showing up collectively. Yes, they're showing up together. There are also many people who won't buy your concert tickets and like your music.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: But they can just get it at home. Why would they go through the whole trouble of going to the. Which means essentially, a concert is trying to catch the more dedicated, slightly crazier fans. They're a little more obsessed.
Cristina: I know, but the concerts are also for people who just want to say, I did a thing.
Jack: And concerts are also for people to. Even if they don't care about live music, to go there, to hang out with people of like minds.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: I guess there's a million reasons to go to concerts. I guess that's the real moral of this episode. What the real moral of this episode is there are many ways you can go to a concert. Or many, not many ways. Many reasons. Many reasons as to why you can go to a concert. That's the moral of the story. Everything that we're talking about has been about that.
Cristina: No, it hasn't. It's about weird celebrityism.
Jack: Yeah. And tearing them up the celebrity tier list.
Cristina: Celebrity. I think we did a bad job.
Jack: I think. Look, I think we need to take this seriously and make legit celebrity tier lists and then discuss our celebrity tier list and why we believe it breaks down that way.
Cristina: Okay, I'll bring some. I'll make my own list. You make your own list. And then we compare this.
Jack: Yes. And then we try to make one list based on the arguments from the ones we don't agree on.
Cristina: Yep. I like that idea.
Jack: That checks out.
Cristina: That checks out. I hope we pick some that are, like, in different tier lists. Like, say, Eminem. Like, I'm sure if we both had him, where would we put him? Will we put him different spots?
Jack: Interesting. Would you put him higher or lower?
Cristina: Yeah, we'll find out in that episode.
Jack: Interesting. I dig it. I'm excited.
Cristina: But we have to pick different types of, like, it can't just be musicians.
Jack: Or just actors or whatever.
Cristina: Yeah, yeah.
Jack: Just famous people. Yeah, just really, really famous people. We're gonna try to see if we can successfully pin down a group of people.
Cristina: Yes. We should have, like, in our individual list, like, maybe, I don't know, five. Three to five in each category.
Jack: Interesting. I like where you're coming from.
Cristina: I feel like three sounds good.
Jack: Five sounds nice too.
Cristina: Okay. Because like, if we have different people in S, but then we agree with each other's S or something like that, that's a lot of people in S. Yes.
Jack: But also, what are the odds of that?
Cristina: Okay. Okay.
Jack: If there's S, we're probably gonna think of the same people.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: We're probably gonna think of the same people for some A's.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And then that's more like.
Cristina: Yeah, yeah. And towards the bottom is probably gonna.
Jack: Be more people because that's the people who factually we know less of.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Which runs an interesting experiment we had in this that comes from this conversation, which is you're probably gonna know about people and think people know about them that I have no clue about and vice versa.
Cristina: Yes, yes. And we'll find out. Okay, so we got a project.
Jack: Yes. Cool. Anyways, I hope you guys enjoyed us having this completely aimless conversation. You guys can contact us, talk to us, tell us, give us your thoughts on celebrities and how they line up and who falls on your tier list as opposed. You do that @justconvo, pod on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok.
Cristina: Remember to subscribe, rate, and review our show.
Jack: Yes. And tell people about the program. Word of mouth is extremely overpowered. And if you tell people that you like it, it's.
Cristina: This has been the Rambling podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Bye. Are there stories of Pegasus around that area?
Jack: Around the Bermuda Triangle?
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: There are an absurd amount of flying objects seen there, but none that reflect a horse. But there are many white flying objects. Particularly white. It's always white. It's always a white flying object. They think it's a round cloud. You've heard that, right? The round cloud in the Bermuda Triangle.
Cristina: Maybe it could be a horse.
Jack: Could be.
Cristina: Good morning. Good morning. The podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and published by greatthoughts.info art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McCallister, with social media managed by Amber Black.