Rambling 224: UFOlogy
/Are UFOs aliens? Are they foreign technologies? And are there any reliable sources that could clarify? The duo begin a dive into UFOlogy by discussing the basics.
+Episode Details
Topics Discussed:
- UFO
- Men in Black
- Greys
- Bob Lazar
- Zeta Reticuli
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+Transcript
Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I'm your host, Jack.
Cristina: And I'm Christina.
Jack: And this is a show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas, mostly. So when we ask it, like, it's a bit of a confused question.
Cristina: What's the question saying?
Jack: That we solve humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas.
Cristina: Do we?
Jack: Well, I think we. I think we do. I'm like 95% sure that's accurate.
Cristina: You said 95.
Jack: 95.
Cristina: Whoa.
Jack: So I was going through things. Papers.
Cristina: You're going through papers with words on them? Yes. What did the words say? Are they important?
Jack: Sort of. Kind of, sort of. It was essentially the Pentagon speaking about the UFOs.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And the number of encounters that the Air Force has had and the Navy has had with UFOs.
Cristina: They're not UFOs anymore, they're UAPs. I'll never remember that, but okay.
Jack: The idea here is that I became fascinated with the fact that they really straight up said, like, we don't know what most of this is. I was like, cool, we don't know what most of this is.
Cristina: That doesn't mean aliens either. They don't know.
Jack: Does not mean aliens. Yeah, but you'd be hard pressed to convince everybody of that because a lot of people think it's aliens. But also, like, it's funner if it's aliens.
Cristina: It's definitely funner if it's aliens.
Jack: Like, it sucks to the.
Cristina: The reality also would be really cool if it's just natural things that we just haven't discovered yet.
Jack: Like we're capable of s***. So cool. It looks like aliens that we're capable. Yeah, that would be. That's what you're talking about, right?
Cristina: No, like animals maybe, or something like that lives on Earth that we haven't even.
Jack: Just like some biology that's up there.
Cristina: Yeah. Yeah, that would be cool.
Jack: Weird thought I had. It's a sort of a side bubble to this. I was wondering a couple of days ago if it would make sense for something that does live. Essentially. Like, we would. The idea was ultimately, like, if it works in a way that we don't know. If it's not carbon based, the salient. If it's. Yeah. If it's not cellular, we would we. Would we call it part of biology or would we make a science name for whatever new study of this other life is and thus expand the sciences within the study of life, as opposed to saying that biology is the study of life because it doesn't fit the basic Criteria for being biological.
Cristina: But if it is a thing that is from Earth, it's still somehow in biology. It just needs to be a new sub.
Jack: No, it could be a mineral that's alive somehow.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: That's not biology.
Cristina: Okay. But it would be still in a category that already exists. It would just be a new.
Jack: It would be a living version of.
Cristina: Whatever category in a category that already exists. Because that's possible.
Jack: Weird.
Cristina: But wouldn't that be even more awesome than it just being an alien?
Jack: Yeah, of course. There's a million things that would make it cooler than being an alien.
Cristina: Well, being an alien is still pretty cool. But it'd be really cool to find aliens. I don't know why the idea of finding aliens in space is much cooler than finding it here. But I love the idea of, like, us going into the waters of the moon and then finding an alien fish or something. Like, not anything complicated, just something simple like that.
Jack: What's interesting about that is that our minds would be like, crap, it's possible somewhere else. That's the. That's the real question we're trying to answer when we're talking about aliens.
Cristina: Exactly. Like, if it's on Earth, we have to question whether it's from Earth or not. But if we find it out there, it has to be from out there. That'd be crazy. If it came from Earth and then got out there. But then who knows? If it was discovered on the moon, we'd have to question was it really.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: Origin really from the moon, or was it somehow from Earth because we have sends people there. We've said so many things to the moon.
Jack: Like, and we are pretty sure that the moon is created from chunks of Earth.
Cristina: Yeah. So it's like that type of alien. Isn't that crazy?
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: If we just discovered life there.
Jack: I guess. I guess when we're talking about alien life, the. The real thing would be the closer to Earth, the more likely it's related to Earth.
Cristina: Yes. And when it comes to wanting to meet or see something alien is like, it has nothing to do with us. It's its own. It has its own origin story, I guess, is the important thing.
Jack: Yes, that's what we really want. Yes, that's what we really want to figure out. We want to find life that has its own origin story.
Cristina: That would be awesome.
Jack: Yeah, that would be badass. And like, what. But then again, we don't even understand our own origin story. We don't know why it went. That's why There are only theories. We don't know why it went from not alive to alive. We don't know what moment biology began or why or how or really when. We got theories. But yeah, the only theory we got on is when we don't know how, we don't know why.
Cristina: No.
Jack: Kind of got theories of where.
Cristina: Kind of have theories of where, I guess when it comes to like, planets, sitting planets and stuff like that.
Jack: Yeah. And locations on Earth as well. Like, where did it probably happen?
Cristina: Oh, okay. But these aliens. Okay. What was your idea with these aliens? You're reading papers.
Jack: Oh, well, I got interested in the fact that the government is openly claiming it doesn't know what most of this is. They know that a bunch of it is just like tested technology by foreign governments and espionage and sometimes people privately making cool things and it gets detected, stuff like that. But the fact that they're saying the majority of it.
Cristina: But also we learned recently, I think, that some of it was just like, the technology is so advanced that we haven't learned something. Certain things about it that, like if it glitches out, we wouldn't tell. And then it's like, it's just that thing. Like, there is not nothing really alien happening. It's the tech that's causing the thing the pilot is seeing. Like, there's nothing really out there.
Jack: Yeah, that's a lot of it is that too. That's for sure. There's a bunch of that in which a bunch of crap has been like.
Cristina: When they truly believe there's something, they see something, but it's not really anything because it's just the tech freaking out.
Jack: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But there are eyewitness reports as well. Like when they see it and it gets caught on camera and stuff. But some of that, again, has also been proven to be glitches in the systems that maybe is a predictive cam that's trying to help guide.
Cristina: But do their stories line up with the stories of regular people seeing aliens and. Or UFOs?
Jack: That is an interesting question. So do p. Do the. I guess we're. We're also talking about two completely different scenarios, right? We're. We're talking ultimately about people who don't have access to flight technology or water vessels because they happen to just be landlocked. Like most people. They're just stuck on land. And then the people. Or even when you're on a boat, you're like, stuck on the boat. As opposed to the exaggerated power of the American government, which, by the way, the United States is the country. Country in the World with the most alien UFO reports. Of course it is. And followed by Canada. So.
Cristina: But who has the most, like, people, like, the government is in this. Like, yeah, it's military in space type of thing. Like, do we have the biggest air military thing?
Jack: I think so. I know we. Well, we have the biggest everything military. It doesn't matter which part of the military you're talking about.
Cristina: Yeah. So when it comes to alien specifically, you're looking up. Are we looking at ourselves?
Jack: Interesting question. At that point, you're saying that the people on the ground are just seeing the American Navy and the Air Force.
Cristina: But we have the biggest.
Jack: Yeah, but then the question is the ones that are in the navy and in the Air Force, those guys still see things and they know what their stuff looks like. So why are they like, what the h*** was that?
Cristina: But does that match up with what people are saying?
Jack: Well, it doesn't matter now because you completely just executed that bit of information. They're probably seeing us and it's so advanced that we don't know it's us we're looking at. So the people don't matter now. Only the military's perspective matters because we've. We're just looking at our own military. But the military isn't looking at our own military. They know when they see themselves, so what is it that they're confused about?
Cristina: But some of them did were thinking they saw something, but it turned out that it wasn't.
Jack: Yes, but some of them physically saw something. They didn't use machines. Some of them looked at it. Most of them. Well, I guess anyway, most of them is actually a small percentage of them happen to be glitches in the systems.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: But there were a lot of them that were eyewitness accounts. And they're like, I don't know how this black dot moved across this giant surface of water beneath me while I'm going over the speed of sound. It just shot across from behind me to the front. And he's looking. And then that is corroborated with the camera's perspective or whatever caught it.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And then it's like, what the h***'s that? He saw it. That's weird.
Cristina: But we don't know what it is.
Jack: But we don't know what it is. We can't just exclusively say alien. But then that comes. That brings us to, I guess what you could say is one of the main UFO conspiracy theories.
Cristina: What is it?
Jack: That it's not our own tech. It's enemy government tech.
Cristina: Enemy government tech. That's A conspiracy?
Jack: Yeah, that it's enemy governments or I guess that's the conspiracy. If that's the case and that's just the conspiracy that the American government creates.
Cristina: Yeah. Because like we're like, yeah, it's aliens. But the government would say, yeah, it's the enemy.
Jack: Well, I guess the real idea is that some people would believe that too. That we're not exactly the most powerful country in the world. And a lot of other countries are like, the conspiracy is we're being lied to about our own capacity and that what we really are seeing is technology so advanced that we should legitimately be scared about how low on the totem pole we are versus the technologies of more advanced countries. Our government lies to us all the time. Why would we believe we are actually the strongest just because they told us.
Cristina: Oh my gosh, I'm one of those sheeples. No.
Jack: Yeah.
Cristina: You cannot be sure.
Jack: No, there's no way to be sure.
Cristina: Oh, okay.
Jack: How can anybody be sure about this? It's a conspiracy. Conspiracy theory, yeah. It's absolute madness. But that is a really popular one. That it is just enemy technology. These enemy governments and military creating extremely advanced technologies.
Cristina: When do they have time to do this? Like we do this 24 7. How are they more advanced than us?
Jack: Well, why are we doing it 247 if we are after we. We're already obviously the strongest. Why didn't we stop and dedicate to making everybody else smarter so that that way we become better? No, we continue to fuel this thing for a reason that we don't understand, which is probably that somebody out there might have the power and we're just like not understanding. We've tried reverse engineering, We've tried everything. Maybe us in China kind of stuck in the same limbo. We're reverse engineering everything under the sun, just trying to figure out how we can reverse engineer the super advanced other things.
Cristina: We were just power hungry.
Jack: Just, we were just way behind.
Cristina: Hungry for more power.
Jack: I think we're just way behind. I think a lot of us are way behind. China, you think China's way behind?
Cristina: I don't know.
Jack: Yeah, I think so. To be fair. I think the idea is those of us pretending to be the strongest are probably faking it. And there might be real other extremely power. Like the Atlanteans are just like way out there. And they're the ones who failed at hiding themselves successfully. They left structures, they left writings, they left DNA. They with people, there's proof of them. So then there's technology that's extremely Advanced. It's extremely possible. So what stops our government from from consistently lying to us the way that North Korea's government does to their people? How would we know if that's happening to us?
Cristina: It probably is. I mean, we do have some proof of them definitely lying to us. Not about something important like UFOs or anything. We have no idea. We have to just take what they give us with that. But there's proof that they're lying all the time. Yeah.
Jack: So then why would we believe anything they tell us at any moment? Why would we believe.
Cristina: Because there's nothing else, though. There's no. There's no true. I mean, I guess there are random people who say, I know the truth. Like that guy that goes on Joe Rogan or many people that go on Joe Rogan.
Jack: Bob Lazar. Or Edward Snowden.
Cristina: Yes. Which. Yes, Edward Snowden. Snowden.
Jack: Snowden.
Cristina: Snowden. Whoa. But besides, people like them, definitely. Wow. Edward Snowden.
Jack: Yeah. There's like straight up facts about like here, the government's lying. Here's the.
Cristina: There's not many of that. And it's really hard for people to believe them, though. Like he had proof. Proof. Proof that no one can deny.
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: Like he's the most like, reliable source, even though they call him a traitor. Like he. Come on.
Jack: He literally showed people government secrets that prove we were being spied upon by our government. Yeah, like, God.
Cristina: Like, there's no denying.
Jack: D***. But then you got somebody like Bob Lazar and you got to trust when.
Cristina: You look into their information, he doesn't have the info or.
Jack: And his claim. So. So Edwards, not Edward Snowden. Bob Lazar is a guy who claims to have worked for Area 51 at some point in his life. He claims to have masters in physics that he worked at Area 51 under the United States government reverse engineering flying saucers and their technology in order to understand it and build our own stuff. The problem is two bits of information that are conflicting. One is the fact that he claims that the government is trying to suppress and make. Suppress his existence, essentially and make him seem completely uncredible. Like you can't believe what he says. And then the other one is that there is no proof of his masters in physics.
Cristina: Yeah, it's just him saying things.
Jack: There's no way to prove it if the government is actually or isn't. I don't know. Because it's exactly what our government would do. Yes, that's the problem.
Cristina: Just succeed at doing what they do.
Jack: This is the real problem. That fact, the fact that it's exactly what we would do. So I'm not saying, yes, we're doing it. I'm not saying we're not, because it's exactly what we would do. But also, he could just be a crazy guy or a real good manipulator. Understanding the people in ufology by vast majority, seem to be just a bunch of rational people hoping for something. Or not even irrational, I guess, hope. How is it any different than religion?
Cristina: Yeah, the UFO community. Yeah.
Jack: How is that any different than a religion? Got faith that something's going on without proof of it.
Cristina: But he doesn't have any wacky crazy story, does he? Like meeting. Oh, yeah, he does.
Jack: Yes, he does.
Cristina: I'm pretty sure he worked with one.
Jack: Yes, he worked.
Cristina: That's kind of wacky. That makes it a little wacky.
Jack: Is it true? As a question?
Cristina: It's true. I don't know. Like, how was the alien surviving? I don't know. I'm guessing, like, if there was an alien really on living with us, that means their home must not be that different from us. Yes, but then somehow they are so different from us.
Jack: They are only different because they come from somewhere else. There's different as different animals are on Earth, but we all share an ancestor.
Cristina: Yes. So they. It's just. I don't know, it's too. It's so. Because they're so similar and so different. They're the same as in, they have probably the same amount of fingers and they have two eyes and they have a nose. No. Did they have a nose? I don't know if they have a nose, because they don't.
Jack: You mean the grays?
Cristina: Yeah. Do they have mouths? Do they have noses?
Jack: They have mouths. They have noses.
Cristina: So. Okay, yeah, but they use telepathy to talk, right?
Jack: Yes, because that's way more efficient than language.
Cristina: Yes, because if they spoke, we wouldn't understand what they're saying though, and it.
Jack: Would be irrelevant to them. Like, it makes no sense. It's so primitive to speak.
Cristina: Yeah, but how. What does the alien poop look like?
Jack: That's a really good question.
Cristina: What do aliens eat? Like, how is it surviving? It's working with him every day trying to figure this out.
Jack: No, it must be.
Cristina: You already know this technology. So why is he working with him to figure this out if he already.
Jack: Knows it's helping him reverse engineer it.
Cristina: Like, why does it need him to be on the.
Jack: Do you know?
Cristina: Why not just write it all down?
Jack: Do you know how the computer works? Could you undo a computer right now? You know how to use a computer? Okay, could you undo a computer and put it back?
Cristina: Can you write it? Like for dummies?
Jack: Listen to me. Does every person who drives a car have the ability to decompose a car? Not decompose. Deconstruct the car into its bare parts and then recompose a car. Could they explain?
Cristina: So you're saying the alien, even though it uses this technology, doesn't mean it knows.
Jack: It doesn't mean it knows.
Cristina: Yeah, okay. In that way. Okay.
Jack: It doesn't mean it has.
Cristina: That doesn't mean any f******. Yeah, because it's just driving it. It's just a car to it.
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: It's just using the thing.
Cristina: Yeah. That doesn't mean he gets what. But still, what does? He.
Jack: Should have the ability, if he's just flying among the stars, to create its food. It should be able to make food without worry, without it having to be on Earth. That's how it moves through space. How does it be anywhere else? It must have the ability to create its food because it's already.
Cristina: If it eats, it poops. Has anyone seen its poop? I don't know. It's just too weird. Alien poo?
Jack: I don't know, but it would be like any other creature. It would just have a poo. Birds have poo that's just wet, like white liquid. Yeah, like this.
Cristina: If he gathered it, though, then that would be the proof. He would have some proof that this alien exist.
Jack: Gathered alien proof?
Cristina: Yes, like if he gathered anything. Took a photo of it. Like you're working with him, shining. Oh, wait, I guess he wouldn't be able to use a cab, a phone or anything where he's working.
Jack: Yeah, you can't have any proof that you were here.
Cristina: Man. He should have tried harder to find a way to sneak some proof that the alien. I don't know, a photo would have helped.
Jack: He probably. Man, all these guys do this. He probably has photos, I bet.
Cristina: No way.
Jack: But listen, you're talking about these aliens and like, why. Why do you feel this alien would be so different? Aren't grays already two eyes, two legs, two arms, one head, one torso. Like grays are the most humanoid thing, chances are they could survive off of. If they are biological, then they must share at least the fact that they are carbon based. Which means they require to some degree exactly the same things as every other life that we understand.
Cristina: Yeah, but what is it? What? Like, did it have a personality? Besides talking about work, did it talk to him about things? What did he Talk about. Did he talk about home? What did he miss about home? Like, what was going on with this alien? It cannot just be 100% focused on the job. How did he talk to this thing and not learn anything else? Or did he do you know?
Jack: I don't. I have no idea.
Cristina: Because there's so many questions. Like you, you don't. Like you would have asked it its name if you were working with it. I know he gave him a name. So did he not have one? Did he not need one? Then where he comes from? Like, is that the story? Does he explain that? But you don't know?
Jack: I have no idea.
Cristina: We gotta look this stuff up eventually.
Jack: Yes, that's totally on point.
Cristina: The alien has to have a backstory. I mean, like, there's no way you work with an alien and he's tell he's communicating with you and you get nothing from him besides work. Unless like the person watching over the alien is also psychic and is like stopping him from communicating outside of work. Like that's not possible.
Jack: I'm sure that. Yes, maybe question mark. He does have conversations outside of work. Related. I also believe he said one of these guys was his friend. Not just his work buddy, his friend, his friends. Which would tell me that he has heard things about a personal story. But also when we think about having personal experiences that are good with aliens and they tell you about their lives, we do have the experiences of Billy Mayer as another example of a person who claims had chill experiences with aliens where they too talk about their lives and other things.
Cristina: They have those on campus. They're like future humans or something. Like, those are lame aliens. Those aren't alien aliens. They still somehow lead to us and them being related. I want to know about aliens.
Jack: But these aliens, the Grays would also be. Which is what Bob Lazar says he.
Cristina: Was interacting with something that was related to humans. Yeah, that's not cool.
Jack: I mean, you brought it up. You wanted to talk about it.
Cristina: So I want to know about aliens that are actually aliens.
Jack: Bob Lazar has zero to do with any alien that isn't gray.
Cristina: And the aliens are. All the Grays are connected to us.
Jack: I don't know. I know that the Grays is what Bob Lazar was talking about.
Cristina: That doesn't mean they're related. That other guy, he definitely makes it seem like those people are us in the future.
Jack: Oh yeah, they totally are. But the grays are 100% related somehow because they are already bipedal, single headed, two eyed creatures. There's no freaking way that would happen twice. That's so specific. Why would that be the same case again elsewhere? That makes zero sense.
Cristina: Almost all life is like that.
Jack: Then all life has an origin, related by default. It's just like if you kept. If you had 30 dice, I guess. 30? Yeah, 30. Die. No one die. 30 dice. So you have 30 dice, you roll them all together, you throw all of them, and every single one is a six. Every time you throw all of them. That's how unlikely another creature just having two eyes, one mouth, one head, two arms, a torso, two legs, five fingers.
Cristina: Yes. Okay.
Jack: On each hand. Like, no way. The odds. The odds are so astronomical, man.
Cristina: Some of these alien stories has to be that the alien tells a person that I'm just taking this form so you can understand me or whatever, you know, like, so it wouldn't break your mind.
Jack: In the case of a gray. That makes absolute sense if they were. But they would have to. You'd only see them that way if they're cool with you, because they would convey to you. I'm gonna make a generalized image in your head in a way that fits things. You understand?
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: I don't look like this at all.
Cristina: No. Then you see its real form, and it's just an angel.
Jack: Yes. And gibberish. It just doesn't compute.
Cristina: Yes. Like that. Is that the same story? I don't know.
Jack: So if you go outside in a particularly dark night and you look up into el espacio, this space, the empty void that we somehow exist in. Probably a black hole that we happen to be in that swallowed a bunch of stars and whatnot. Who knows? Dark as h*** in here. For whatever reason. It's colorless, but that equals black. We don't know why.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Anyways, if we look into the sky, we can see, if you look really closely, two stars together. And those two stars together are actually together. It's not an illusion. Like when you see other two stars together, one is really far and bright and one is really close and dim. And then it looks like they're together. Together means that they are orbiting each.
Cristina: Other and not in a way that they're gonna get.
Jack: They're right. They're crashing into one another, flying away from each other. Regardless, they're orbiting each other. They're caught in each other's gravity.
Cristina: Okay?
Jack: And that double star system is called Zeta Reticuli. And that double star system is said to have a planet just like Earth. And that planet, just like Earth, is said to be the planet where the grays come from.
Cristina: Who says People, people say. Do people say this planet is like Earth? Or are scientists saying there's a planet like Earth there?
Jack: All of the above. And then people are saying that that's where the grays come from.
Cristina: That means nothing to me.
Jack: The aliens are attached to the scientific fact of Zeta Reticuli.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: So yes, double star. You can see it by looking up. And yes, we can tell that there are this many planets because of how the lights dim.
Cristina: And yes, tell that there is one.
Jack: Perfectly placed in order to be just like Earth. All checks out. Exoplanet is what we call them. Yes. But then enter the people that say, oh, I knew the whole, you know, I also did the thing and I know that up there is where they come from. And it's like, okay, whatever, dude. People claiming work with them or they heard from this person or whatever alien.
Cristina: So long that they come.
Jack: Yeah, that kind of stuff. You know. So the idea is that, yeah, they even have to live on a planet that's similar to ours.
Cristina: Does that.
Jack: That makes them essentially like. It makes the odds crazy high that they're just carbon based life. Yes, they must be.
Cristina: So these aliens are not that alien.
Jack: Or carbon based life always turns out bipedal.
Cristina: Yeah. Which still doesn't make them super alien. They're so alien that they're not from here, but they're not.
Jack: That means that the light, the rules of life are so identical that we're just gonna find the same s***.
Cristina: Not very fun. Why is this what people want? That's what people imag, man, people are not that creative when it comes to alien life forms. Massar's the guy who wrote Star Trek.
Jack: I guess that guy was creative as all h***.
Cristina: Yeah. I can't say the same for Star Wars. I don't know if they have anything other than human like creatures or whatever.
Jack: Star Wars?
Cristina: Yeah, like all those things that exist there. The most alien of aliens are still not that alien.
Jack: Yeah, they're like some take on an animal or some take on some bipedal humanoid.
Cristina: Yeah. The closest thing is like a slug. It's a giant slug.
Jack: Yeah. But it still has two arms, two eyes. It's not like anything particularly alien.
Cristina: Where are the creatures? A gas whale that lives in space, just swimming through space.
Jack: Totally anomalous shape.
Cristina: What? I want something like that to be discovered.
Jack: Yeah. Star Trek was pretty good at that, wasn't it? It had the two dimensional creatures. They were alive, but they only exist in two out of the three dimensions.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: So you couldn't see them. That's Weird.
Cristina: Yes. Why are we looking for ourselves? I want that.
Jack: Because we have real. No other. We really, really have no other reference point. We have to test what we can make an experiment for, and we can't make an experiment for something we can't conceive. That's the problem. Until we have. Until we see something that could change how we think.
Cristina: Yeah, it's always going to be something.
Jack: It'll be random. You could literally come up with anything.
Cristina: Going to be gray. It's going to be gray. Everyone sees a gray.
Jack: And then we'll get together with the Grays and hopefully figure out if we can think outside the box enough to find something that doesn't look like us.
Cristina: But do you know anything about this specific Gray that was working with Bob?
Jack: I don't.
Cristina: Is it Bob?
Jack: Why would I know any of this? You brought Bob Lazar and the Grays up. I've never mentioned them at all. I don't know why I would know any of this.
Cristina: Because you know more information than I do. You don't know anything. Come on.
Jack: I mentioned everything I know. He worked at Area 51.
Cristina: You mentioned a lot of stuff, but you don't know anything specifically about the alien he worked with?
Jack: No, I don't know.
Cristina: That's the most interesting part of it.
Jack: That's the most interesting part to you. You should definitely look into it.
Cristina: I don't know.
Jack: I highly recommend it.
Cristina: Well, do you know about. What else did he mention? Like. Like, was it something that wasn't discovered until later on? Supposedly that's a. Some type of matter or something.
Jack: What, a dark matter?
Cristina: Not dark matter.
Jack: Anti matter?
Cristina: No. Some thing that belongs on the chart of things.
Jack: Oh, element. Something. Something.
Cristina: Yeah. He discovered an element before?
Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He. I mean, he was correct about a bunch of random crap, which is totally weird. Predicted how the government would respond. He knew the places, he knew the names. He just can't prove he was ever at any of these places. Everybody's like, we never heard of him. But he can name the people. So the question is, is he a crazy person that did a lot of research?
Cristina: He could be.
Jack: Or is he a person who the government is trying to erase?
Cristina: It's really hard as h***. Definitely be a crazy person. It can definitely be someone they're trying to. It's the same. It's really hard to tell.
Jack: Well, regardless of what Bob Lazar might be up to at any given moment of his day, the consistency with which these UFOs seem to move suggests that we are, on average, looking at the same things or that science for these things or science in general, at an advance in a stage, seems identical to us in how strange and foreign it is. A good example is that all the UFOs seem to always defy gravity. They seem unfazed by our gravity and can move up, upwards, downwards in vertical motion effortlessly.
Cristina: Yeah, always.
Jack: Yes. In a consistent speed. No loss of speed, no need to accelerate anymore, just kind of moving fluidly through any type of atmosphere or lack thereof.
Cristina: But how do we know we're looking at a UFO or alien itself? Like how do we. How could we say?
Jack: Because we couldn't conceive of any possible current day jump in technological advancement that would allow us to do that. It would have to be something else.
Cristina: No, I mean, like how do we. We, we call it an ufo.
Jack: Right.
Cristina: But what if that was the alien itself?
Jack: Yeah, yeah. It could be 100. It could be. Oh, you mean like it's the physical thing? Yes, I mean that could be the case. We just don't know what it is. It could be technology, but it could also just be the creature.
Cristina: Yeah, the story of like it coming out of water and stuff. Like, what if it's just living down there? I don't know.
Jack: I mean that's very world of a war of the worlds where however many thousands of years ago, they saw this creature start to develop and they went and hid.
Cristina: Yeah, but those are still aliens in a device or something.
Jack: Yeah, they're hiding underneath the water intact.
Cristina: What if this thing we think is tech is not tech?
Jack: It's not tech.
Cristina: Well, but an actual biological being that looks like tech to us moves like this.
Jack: Well, if it's biological, I don't think it would be able to do that. We're basically talking about life that isn't biological. A different thing that's alive. Something else that has sentience and control over its autonomy. Something that's autonomous and in control consciously. That's what you're talking about.
Cristina: Yeah, but it's easier to like say that it's. It's got to be tech.
Jack: Well, yeah, not necessarily, though. It could definitely be this other thing, but we, There would be no way to know. There'd be no way to know. It wouldn't be biological though.
Cristina: No.
Jack: Okay, like the odds of that are likely.
Cristina: Do you think these alien stories have anything to do with the UFO stories? UFO stories, like they relate at all, do people?
Jack: What alien stories?
Cristina: Any alien story. All these people who say they encounter aliens.
Jack: It's possible. Could be absolutely two different things. The problem is that, for example, something like a Bigfoot has power, has magic, it has strange abilities, and it could easily be alien. Like, there are many creatures like that in science and folklore that definitely have the sort of elusive seem to either troll or experiment with humans. And they're just local creatures. There's just things around us that aren't alien.
Cristina: Yeah, but I'm just saying, like, are they related? Are these two different things?
Jack: That's my. What my point is ultimately, like, it's possible that they're unrelated because. Because it could be any number of things.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: If there's way more things it could be, it's less likely. It's specifically this one thing, as opposed to every different story being a different thing.
Cristina: Every different story.
Jack: Yeah. Stories that are related and have the same themes or the same things. But that doesn't necessarily mean aliens. And that also doesn't mean that it's connected to the other weird things that happen that aren't identical to these weird things.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Aliens could cover all the weird things, but it could be a bunch of unalien weird things taking place.
Cristina: So weird.
Jack: Yeah. Now, another thing that these UFOs seem to be capable of is instant acceleration. That means that they can go from zero to 60, but literally instantaneously. There is no in two point, however. No, it's just zero to 60 as you're just suddenly going 60 miles per hour. Well, imagine that. But as fast as you can imagine.
Cristina: And that has to be very advanced because if you're moving that fast, you have to be predicting everything that's in front of you so that you don't crash or anything.
Jack: Just predicting. You have to be protecting whatever the h***'s inside the vessel from acceleration.
Cristina: You have to have some future knowledge, because you could easily hit a mountain or something.
Jack: No, that's not future knowledge. That's 100%. You get used to moving at these speeds and calculating things that are just at farther distances as opposed to closer. When you're moving at a car's speed, like, yeah, a mountain is something you should know about when it's close.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: But when you're going at these supersonic speeds, you're like, preparing for the mountain quite some distance away because you're gonna cover that distance in no time. So you're, like, making corrections ahead of time. You don't need to know the future. You just need to think ahead.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Yeah, you just think even farther. You still. Like when you're driving a car, you're looking at like, okay, my turn is three blocks from now. And before you get to the right corner, you counted two streets, and then you're like, well, oh, that's the street up there.
Cristina: Yeah. But you slow down to take that turn while these things don't need to do that.
Jack: Well, that would be another interesting thing about these things against instant acceleration goes with the instant stop, they can go from zero to 300 miles per hour and then go to. From 300 miles per hour to zero instantaneously without at any moment requiring to slow down. It's just stopped suddenly.
Cristina: Man, this tech is so advanced. I would think it's robots.
Jack: A robot could pull it off for sure.
Cristina: Yeah, like the alien.
Jack: But now we're talking probes. Yeah, that's exactly what we've been talking. We're talking alien probes. That would be a robot. Because aliens would want to be here themselves. Unless that's just an us thought. Yes, because again, we would want to be there ourselves. But we're very prideful. We want to be able to have the story to tell.
Cristina: That doesn't mean everything's like us.
Jack: Yes. We just got nothing. We have no other perspective is the problem.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: So we got to go with us.
Cristina: Yes. That makes it hard.
Jack: Yeah, it makes it hard. It makes our thinking savagely limited. We don't know what we don't know.
Cristina: So everything's like us.
Jack: Yep. Until we know something that isn't. Now, with these instant accelerations and sudden stoppages and complete lack of restriction from our gravity, the weirdest part isn't those two things. It's actually that it does, on average, all of them do both those things, and they do them without leaving any sort of signature. There's no sign of what propulsion system they're using. They're just suddenly moving, and there isn't a vapor trail. There isn't fumes. There is no smoke. There is nothing.
Cristina: But then shouldn't we be that fans? If Bob Lazar is telling the truth and they were trying to do that thing, what's it called?
Jack: Bob Lazar's argument is that we actually are seeing our own tech.
Cristina: Okay, okay. Yes. Okay, that makes more sense.
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: Like, if we were working to figure that out, then we should definitely have that.
Jack: Yes, yes. His argument is that we have that.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And he worked on it.
Cristina: Why would the government. Why would people from the military be questioning if they're seeing aliens? Like, why would we try to say like. Or the government say like, okay, these are aliens?
Jack: Because we're not gonna say we have this level of tech if we have this level of level of tech that will make the other countries okay.
Cristina: Ah, since we were just covering up our own techno.
Jack: Yes, that's his argument by saying these.
Cristina: Are definitely 100 aliens.
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: Although some of it is definitely us. Like, yeah, there's some aliens, but a lot of it.
Jack: No, the United States government is not. It's. They're not saying that it's aliens. The United States government is saying, no, there's nothing crazy like that. There's advanced technology, but it's nothing like that.
Cristina: Oh, they're not even saying what it is. They're just saying.
Jack: Yeah, they're just like, that's to it something.
Cristina: We don't know what it is.
Jack: No, they're not saying we. Oh, the ships are. The alien UFOs are like, we don't know what those are.
Cristina: Yeah, but they're not saying aliens. They're just saying.
Jack: And the technically clean they're working on the Area 51 is just, you know, our tech. We don't need enemies talking about it. So they got both angles covered ultimately.
Cristina: Okay. Okay.
Jack: Yeah, they're like, they're not saying it's us. It's too advanced. If it was us. Problem. They're like, yeah, we got the tech. Every country in the world is gonna figure it out and we haven't.
Cristina: Yeah, and we don't want to scare.
Jack: The other countries into actually figuring it out when we haven't, because then we would be the only one without it. Or whoever does figure it out is now the most dangerous country on earth.
Cristina: But if we have it, we don't want them to know because then they'll be paying attention to what we're doing.
Jack: Yes, but also they'll know that we're factually more dangerous than we claim we.
Cristina: Are, which is still pretty dangerous. Like, I don't know, it's bad no matter what. Why would we lie?
Jack: No, because we couldn't tell them. We couldn't be like, oh, yeah, we're ridiculously stronger than you guys. It's gonna be too easy. They're just gonna team up and nuke us. That's not a good plan.
Cristina: Okay. Even though we're already saying we're the strongest thing ever.
Jack: Yes, but it sounds like bullshit to the rest of the world. That's fine.
Cristina: So we're just saying that as a cover up to us.
Jack: No, we're not saying it as a cover up. We're saying it and meaning it. But we can't. We're not gonna prove it to them. So, like, they're just idiots who Are prideful.
Cristina: That's so crazy. So crazy. Okay.
Jack: Yeah. But at the end of the day then we really do have some crazy attack like that. And it's like if we needed the smackdown, we could.
Cristina: What are we waiting for? Unless. Then again, what do you want us.
Jack: To use it on?
Cristina: No, I'm like, then what are they doing? They have it. Unless it is for the aliens.
Jack: I don't know what the United States government.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Why they have the technology that's been reverse engineered.
Cristina: Yeah. Like if they're not going to use on other people because once other people figure it out, it's whatever. Like they'll just make something to protect themselves against whatever it is that we have.
Jack: Yeah. And it'll be.
Cristina: Pretty fast.
Jack: Yeah, TECMO is pretty fast. But you're ultimately just at this point talking about civilians, not aliens. Because we don't know how this other thing that isn't our own technology moves because that's also human thought. Assuming they took our science route to the knowledges and technologies they have, they probably found a completely different way. Which is why it's so difficult for us to reverse engineer the technology in the first place. We used science, they used insert value at X and we don't know what the h*** insert value at X is.
Cristina: I don't think we figured it out.
Jack: We might have, but we might have not. And we definitely needed help. Like the alien, he's like, I'll learn from you and you learn from me. And maybe we can make both of these things work out so that we both understand each other.
Cristina: Singing it's hard to imagine that that's a true story. I need to know that story. I need to know the details. The aliens.
Jack: No, I don't.
Cristina: I 100% don't because it just makes no sense. It makes so much little sense.
Jack: Now something else that these ships are capable of is what seems to be a low observability or cloaking.
Cristina: A low.
Jack: Yeah, they seem to. A lot of 95% of the time what you see is a glowing light around their outline or they seem to be almost blending into the environment perfectly and you're just barely noticing them.
Cristina: Okay, so they have a great camouflage.
Jack: Yes. They seem to have the ability to either become barely visible or cloak themselves.
Cristina: We don't have that tech. We do have something like that.
Jack: According to Bob Lazar, we have that.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: But again, I don't really care much about that guy. We don't have any way to prove anything in any direction with him.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: But according to our Own government? No, we don't have the kind of technology.
Cristina: I feel like we love that technology. That's.
Jack: We probably have a lot of the crap we say we don't have. Our government lies a lot. And then the final thing that this, these UFOs on average have are trans medium travel, which is essentially the ability to go from water to ground, ground to air.
Cristina: Yeah, that's a hard one. That's tough. Like to imagine that we have that.
Jack: Text effortlessly not losing speed, not dealing with friction, just moving across all mediums of travel without any form of resistance. That's hardcore going to space.
Cristina: That is robotic alien.
Jack: That's crazy, right? Like how do you travel like that and not get crushed? Yeah, unless you're using warp. If you're warping space around you, you wouldn't feel anything. You could go at any speed you'd like, depending on how much warp energy you could produce. And you can move in any direction. You wouldn't need propulsion.
Cristina: The things around you though.
Jack: No, you're, you're moving space itself. Everything is warping. We know a black hole can warp the things around it without destroying them.
Cristina: I thought the black hole was destroying.
Jack: If they cross the event horizon. But there's a bunch of outside of it that when we look at it, it looks like a smudge. And that's just how the visual is coming to us. We know that works that way. So this could work.
Cristina: Okay, so warp, Warp.
Jack: Warp would solve the problem. But if you got warp that functions and you could use on a small scale, totally controlled, we definitely don't have war. That's like way out there. We're talking based on what we think we have. That means our government would be hiding several thousand years worth worth of advancements.
Cristina: No, you know, yeah, that's, that's what we can imagine them with a lot of that. But that, that, that's too far.
Jack: Yeah, we're talking like maybe a thousand years worth of advancement that's just being kept secret from the mass population.
Cristina: That's too crazy. That's just too crazy.
Jack: I don't know. Yeah, of course. That's absolutely nuts. Where do the odds.
Cristina: So you think they're out there? Do you think they're alien or. I don't know. What if it is a creature that can just move like that?
Jack: That's totally a possibility.
Cristina: Do you think it's from. Not from here though.
Jack: I don't know. I have no clue. It's something that's absolutely not identical.
Cristina: We never like with these stories, they're never Leaving to space. Are they?
Jack: Some of them are.
Cristina: They are. Okay, well, I guess with this military story, they're never leaving into space.
Jack: Some of them are.
Cristina: They are, yeah, there's many. There's hundreds traveling around Earth and going into the water and then coming back out and stuff like that. But they're going into space.
Jack: Some of them go into space as they just travel upward and vanish in these military stories. Yeah, some of them do. Well, it's more about stories that the Pentagon has collected from whatever manner, shape or form way.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Ultimately that's the case.
Cristina: Are you sure?
Jack: Yes. Now, things related to UFOs. Interestingly enough, apart from a bunch of different ufologists like Bob Lazar and Billy Mayer, there is also these weird other people, the men in black. Now, the men in black are actually very related specifically to UFOs.
Cristina: They are either aliens or government. Or a mixture of two.
Jack: Yes, something along those lines. They claim to be government agents on average.
Cristina: There's something very off about them.
Jack: Yes. And they always interrogate, harass, threaten and assassinate UFO witnesses, sometimes even going as far as completely erasing the memories.
Cristina: Is there really stories of them assassinating alien. Not aliens. People who've seen aliens.
Jack: Yes, but those stories are as provable as the stories of them wiping somebody's memory.
Cristina: Okay. Okay. Do you think. I don't know. That's very strange. Like there's really people out there doing that. There's too many people who see aliens for that to be a thing. There's too many people who claim to see UFOs, and just a few of them see men in black. Like how little. Like how often is the men in black involved in these stories?
Jack: Interesting ratios. So you're telling me that not. Well, I guess the idea is maybe they're only showing up to the people who've seen the real ufo. Some people are just reporting seeing a ufo.
Cristina: The people that. Okay, these stories with the men in black involved.
Jack: Right.
Cristina: Are they similar at all?
Jack: They're always the same. Yes.
Cristina: No, they're alien story. Not the seeing, the.
Jack: Oh, I get where you're coming from. You're trying to corroborate the data.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: The idea is, do the people who get visited by men in black report having seen the same thing things? Well, the question is, would that matter?
Cristina: I think so.
Jack: Because if there are different kinds of aliens visiting to the point that we require an organization, why would they all be using the same propulsion system, the same method of transportation, or look the same in any manner, shape or form? So if men in Black, then why would there be any pattern?
Cristina: Okay, so this is like the Men in Black movie where it's just all random.
Jack: Yes, it could in theory be on the flip side. That is a great point to start. Maybe there is just some other thing locally that we're trying to keep a secret instead of a bunch of crap. At least it's worth trying.
Cristina: It's really hard to imagine that it's a bunch of crap. And then we got these few people trying to keep this bunch of crap a secret.
Jack: That's working.
Cristina: Ridiculous.
Jack: If it's just these few people, then good, because it's working.
Cristina: That would be impossible though.
Jack: Who says it's working? It's literally the case. If it just happens to be those few people, it's literally what happened. Then yes, it works. They don't.
Cristina: Why does it work if there's still stories of the Men in Black, like they're not doing a great job?
Jack: If there's stories about them, have you proven them? Have you seen them yourself? Has any. Can anybody prove it? It doesn't matter. Those are crazy people. We have them all labeled as conspiracy theories and nut jobs. The job is done well when you can point at them and the rest of us are just like, you're seeing s***. That's just a guy in a suit. That's some bomb a** brainwashing, huh? I don't think they need more people if it's that easy.
Cristina: It's so easy, then why would you need Men in Black? Like, you just look at that person and be like, he's crazy.
Jack: Except if there's nobody to tell you you're crazy and everybody else can look and see it, then you just have people that know their job is to be like, oh, no, this is what you saw and evidence. Oh no, we get rid of it. There's no proof. Photos. We destroyed them all. That's the crazy person. They'll just say, oh, we destroyed them. Okay, who the h*** are we? Strangers broke into your house and destroyed your photos, you nut job. Like, we'll just break and destroy them and nobody will ever believe this person.
Cristina: You need those photos. Crazy stories. And like, aliens usually do it too. Like, what's the difference?
Jack: Nobody can prove s***. Just make them all crazy. The job of black would be to make them all seem crazy at the end. And it would be super easy. Just destroy the proof. Then nobody can prove s***.
Cristina: But sometimes it's the aliens destroying the proof. Like, what is the difference between Men in Black visiting you after aliens visiting you and just aliens visiting you. After aliens visited you.
Jack: Who says the men in black aren't aliens that are trying to protect their tracks?
Cristina: I don't. It's also similar. I don't know.
Jack: Yeah, I don't understand your point.
Cristina: I don't know.
Jack: It's just a. Like they're definitely something that is weird.
Cristina: Something weird is going on.
Jack: Yeah, like I guess they could be aliens too. They could be like who did. They could be. They're just agents. That's the only thing we know factually. They work for the United States government. Whether they're alien or not seems to defeat the. The point ultimately. I guess it could be in theory, aliens that happen to work for the United States government and are trying to protect the identity of other aliens. But that checks out considering what humans do on average to that isn't like them. So kind of, kind of makes a lot of sense that we would just be like, let's hide this from commoners we seem to like to kill. And that doesn't seem productive for peace with things that can travel the f****** stars so well, those things are killing us. Who says?
Cristina: The people's stories, I guess.
Jack: No, they are all there to tell the story. How are they dead?
Cristina: But you're saying even the men in black are killing people. Are they not really killing people?
Jack: Again, that we. We don't know. They're just the men in black and what people say they do is interrogate, harass, threaten and assassinate UFO witnesses. But this is probably also being said by UFO witnesses who have never seen the men in black.
Cristina: So it's all stories. At the end of the day, there's.
Jack: No way to know. All of this is just stuff that gets discussed in ufology. That's all. Just.
Cristina: There's nothing we can say.
Jack: No, otherwise it would be a fact. We couldn't even do this in science if we wanted to. It's just not something that could happen. Facts are a lie that the government made up to trick us all into thinking that there are such things as facts. There's no facts. Everything is a theory in every manner, shape or form. Nothing is provable and everything is opinion.
Cristina: Facts of life, knowing.
Jack: But yes, the men in black are said to be these people that interrogate, harass, threaten and assassinate UFO witnesses, sometimes going as far as erasing their memory or again, assassination. None of this is provable. But that is what is said. They usually claim to be government agents. They behave very strangely, which suggests they're either really weird people or really just non humans pretending to be humans and working for the government. Some of them, at least. Some of them are. Some of them are just people. There's awkward people who are just human, I guess. Who knows? Maybe you need a spread. Maybe there's a specific gene that makes people awkward and just so happens to be the right gene to be in the man. Like, who knows what.
Cristina: That'd be crazy. Yeah, they need me then. I can fit that.
Jack: But, yeah, ultimately, here are just the things. These are. This is a small list of things related to UFOs, since, again, I saw the now, not the NASA, the Pentagon thing, talking about we don't know what they are and. Yeah, the papers, the sheets of papers with words. And they were just talking about how they don't know what the h*** these things are or what they're using for, again, propulsion and why they're not affected by gravity and how they traverse. Yeah, they got camouflage and they move through all forms of terrain and space and air and water effortlessly and they. They just. All of it is ridiculous and crazy and they leave no trail when they move. That's nuts.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And then we got this Bob Lazar guy who claims things, and we got this Billy Mayer guy who claims things, and they're just too popular names. There's many. There's many. There's so many. So many popular names out there for people who are involved in these things. See, there's a small shred of it for UFOs. That's. That's what I've been looking at, UFO wise, trying to think of whether or not these things are real, whether they're alien, whether the technology, what they. What's the case is they are human technology in an advanced way.
Cristina: It's hard to believe anything that aliens. That people say. Aliens say like, it's always like they're evil, where they're trying to trick you into their being good. And it feels like, is this any different from, like, people talking about demons or ghosts? Like, what's the difference?
Jack: It's the same.
Cristina: It's the same.
Jack: It's the same. It falls. So ufology generally falls into somewhere of a form of religion like Catholicism or the sciences or any of these things that people just ritualize. And there's a faith that can't be proven because of what XYZ reason, whether the Big Bang happened before humanity existed and before the universe was created. God exists before. Before the concept of life was a thing or aliens or the creators or the ultimate. Like, whatever the case might be, there's no proving any of these. These are all religions and they relate on that account and none of them can prove anything that they talk about.
Cristina: It's annoying.
Jack: Yeah, but it's all theories in all the cases. There's nothing to be proven. Anyways. Anyways, I hope you guys enjoyed this conversation. We do talk many times about aliens and other creatures of sorts.
Cristina: Did you learn anything?
Jack: We didn't really learn anything. I just talked about a couple of points that seem to be common in ufology. Just discussed general ufology, and I believe that. Yeah. Now there are again, we have episodes where we do in fact get to conclusions of sorts. But this episode is essentially just kind of a small breakdown, talking about it, discussing these things, what they do, what the ideas are, and a popular name that seems to be part of it and is obsessed with these things and.
Cristina: Claims to have been the popular thing. Oh, that was Men in Black.
Jack: Well, Men in Black is also extremely popular when it comes to these things. Anyways, okay, I hope you guys enjoyed this conversation. If you want to contact us and talk to us about any of this stuff, you could find us at just Convopod on Twitter, Instagram, Tick Tock or Facebook.
Cristina: Remember to subscribe. Right. And review the show. Yeah.
Jack: And word of mouth is extremely powerful. So tell people about the aliens and then maybe you guys will be visited by some men in Black. It'll be lovely.
Cristina: This has been the Rambling podcast. Take nothing personal and thanks for listening. Bye.