Rambling 274: Kendrick vs Drake Nuance
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What exactly took place in the rap beef between Culture Rapper Kendrick and self-proclaimed Pop-Rapper Drake? The world has agreed on a victory, but looking beyond this proclamation, what are the objective truths involved? Did the culture gain or lose something through these interactions? The duo unpack the Rap Beef between the two rappers in an attempt to offer a different perspective. Trying to extract inherent meaning without focusing expressly on the words exchanged, the rant dives into culture and lived experience versus fandom and obsession.
+Episode Details
Topics Discussed:
- Similarities and Differences between Tracks
- Artistic motivations and personalities
- Objective Devil’s Advocate
- Potential for Morally Grey Kendrick Behavior
- Pop-Rap versus Conscious Rap
- The Problem with Acting the Part
- Where Drake Misstepped
- Disagreements within the JCP Camp
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+Transcript
Jack: Warning. This program contains strong themes meant for a mature audience. Discretion is advised. Going live in 5, 4.
Cristina: What does live mean?
Jack: Welcome to the Rambling Podcast. I am your host, Jack.
Cristina: And I am your host, Christina.
Jack: And this is the show where we ground humanity's most absurd and baffling ideas. Insert thunder and explosions.
Cristina: Yes, that's exactly what's happening.
Jack: Okay, fair enough. Fair enough. Normally, I would be like, that's gotta get out of there. We can't leave that in there. But that's awesome. And, like, the timing of that was so immaculate that I kinda don't have a problem with it. And, like, let's not remove it. Okay, stays. Anyways, today we have an interesting discussion because, you know, we avoid topical things, but I think this is gonna live through time.
Cristina: Really, I really do.
Jack: I do. I believe people are gonna be talking about this for a long, long time. Because today we're gonna be talking about the Kendrick and Drake beef, the music beef, the real life beef, and all of that. Maybe not all of the facets. There's too many moving parts. But we're gonna focus on the five songs that matter.
Cristina: And there's too many.
Jack: Yeah. And the discussion surrounding them. And we'll address the songs off of that aren't official. They've been removed or unofficially released.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: But we're gonna focus on the five major ones. Everybody knows which ones those are. That's Push Ups, Euphoria, Family Matters, Meet the Grams and Not Like Us. And actually, I would say the Heart six is included there.
Cristina: That should be.
Jack: That should be. Yeah. You like the name of my playlist?
Cristina: He's Already Dead. Whoa.
Jack: Yes. Yes. So in his Already dead, we got now. And now it's there to the Heart Part six, which is just a podcast episode.
Cristina: It's not his podcast.
Jack: No, it's uploaded as some other weird. Anyways, anyways, the point being, we're gonna be discussing these songs and the situation surrounding them to some degree, but mainly diving into the music part of this for a couple of reasons. One being drama is. And all of Twitter that's writing the who's better and who. This is like, you guys are p******. I've been seeing too much of this. I've jumped on. I've seen conversations that have happened. They have happened from our account. So it's people we know arguing online with people. I'm guilty of having about the beef and s***. I'll be guilty. I've jumped in here and there, but I've also watched the situation unfold and there's some points I've seen that are legit that I'm gonna bring.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: Some points I agree with, some points I disagree with from people in our personal camp. Ideas that I don't. And like, what is our camp?
Cristina: Who's in our camp? What is our camp?
Jack: Our camp. Our camp is our posse. Everybody who works on the program.
Cristina: Everybody works on Kendrick.
Jack: Kendrick.
Cristina: Something else.
Jack: No, no. Editors and everything in the background.
Cristina: Oh, okay. Yes.
Jack: Yes.
Cristina: The rambling.
Jack: Yeah. Yeah. The show. The show camp. The show camp. Everybody in here. Everybody in here.
Cristina: No, we don't have a part of a team.
Jack: No, no, we. We not. No, we not on Drake's camp. And we not on. On Kendrick's camp. It's just us here. It's just us.
Cristina: Okay. Okay.
Jack: And so online. So some people have said some s***, and I agree with some of the s***, and I disagree with some other. Some other of the s***. And we're gonna unpack that as well as unpack what's happening musically here, because there's a lot to talk about. So let's begin by saying everybody on both sides saying that one guy's songs are trash and the other guy's songs were good. You're wrong. Objectively. All the songs in this collection were good, respectively. And to just completely discredit somebody because you want to ride his d*** extra hard. I disagree with that. I think every song here in its right. And I have a complete. I know where you're going with this. You're looking at the heart 6.
Cristina: I am. I am.
Jack: And I can tell you without a doubt, I'm gonna make a case for why that is one of the best songs on this list. This is why I'm disagreeing with some of our own people.
Cristina: I can't wait on Twitter.
Jack: And not only that, not only that, there was a specific argument with a lady on our team that happened on Twitter, and the conversation went all the way to the point that I was. Brought the attention of the message because they want us to talk about it. But weirdly enough, I disagree with her stance on this, and I agree with his. I agree with her stance in other places, which I will address.
Cristina: Okay. Going through. Going through all of that conversation, we're.
Jack: Gonna unpack all of this stuff.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Okay. So first, that there are no bad songs here. If we are talking about these six songs, there are no bad songs. People in Kendrick side have this one problem where specifically with the Heart six, he hit kind of a nerve, and they kind of tuned out after. Not like us. So they weren't receptive to what was happening in the Heart Part six. Not to say the Hard Part six is a combat of any sort of. That's not a winning track. That's not beating anything here.
Cristina: Okay?
Jack: Because The Heart Part 6 isn't even an answer to Not Like Us. The Heart Part six is an answer to Meet the Grams. I will address that later. Push Ups, great. Euphoria, great. Family Matters, Great. Great. Not Like Us, great. The Hard Part six, great. Let's start dividing them into categories now. Push Ups and Euphoria go together.
Cristina: Why? That's because they came after the other.
Jack: No, thematically, they are both the lightest jabs.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: They're both them kind of getting their muscles warm, getting ready, saying, okay, you're my actual opponent. You're my actual pond. There's some jabs for other people in both of those tracks, but it's them dismissing everybody else, essentially, and settling into the image of, oh, it was me versus you. It's me versus you. That's what's happening in both of those tracks. He shot down everybody. Oh, that p****. And this guy and that guy and whatever the f***. And this dude. Oh, you. You in front of me. Kendrick, Drake, you. You're my target. That's what's happening in both of these tracks. We will unpack that more.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: But the next pair is Family Matters and Not Like Us.
Cristina: Interesting. Because you're saying the Meet the Grams is with the heart.
Jack: Yes, I'll explain that in a moment. Family Matters is Ken. Is Drake doing the Kendrick. Dark, deep, thoughtful. That's why that s*** was so sharp. He came ready just like. Not Like Us. Is Kendrick doing the Drake party music Jumping dance and upbeat.
Cristina: Oh, they're doing each other's thing.
Jack: Yeah. See, the whole thing was that because at the end of the day, a couple of series ago, I believe it was 6, 16, perhaps, which is Hendrik stealing the format of Drake, which Drake then steals the harpart's X. Kendrick did it first. He stole the series that Drake was developing and named his own the following part. Okay, so then Drake comes with the Harp Part six, But actually as an answer to the Grams.
Cristina: Why? How?
Jack: This is where I want to start, actually, because artistically speaking, I think this is where it happened. This is where everything matters. Artistically speaking, this is where everything matters. Because The Heart Part 6 is one of the most artistic songs you'll ever hear. It isn't about winning. He's literally resigned and putting the flag. He said, I'm not part of this anymore. I Don't like where it went. And he's just throwing the flag. That's him throwing the flag. But this is the most artistic thing. Now hear me out on this. The Drake fans cannot accept the L. They are struggling to accept this loss dramatically.
Cristina: Even though he's saying he lost.
Jack: And I would. Yeah, he is saying he lost. And here's the part that they're f****** up in. Their inability to claim that he lost. They're missing the artistic value of the hard part. 6 Because he is saying that with everything that's happened, I actually have to step back. And this is the first instance in which I have to do that. And he approaches this song with heavy self reflection. And he goes as far as to, for the first time ever, show us instead of tell us. He shows us the hate that Kendrick has made him feel. And how does he do it? He stoops to Kendrick's level with this and he's just like, you got touched up. Now this is a line that goes over everybody's f****** head. The line that he. That he's essentially making fun of Kendrick for getting molested and that the people on Drake's On Kendrick's team because again, both sides are doing this. They're looking at the other side and saying, oh, he doesn't have bars.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: But both of them do. In fact, out of the entire everything that we've gotten in every single one of these tracks, that is the hardest hitting line. And it came from Drake. Not to say he won anything, but the hardest hitting line in the entire beef came from Drake, not from Kendrick. Because it's so clever. It flew over the minds of the people who think.
Cristina: What was it again?
Jack: It's him saying when he made fun of Kendrick for getting touched, he's like, oh, yeah, forgot your uncle touched you. And no, he didn't. In the song, Kendrick specifically says he didn't, but he also brings up nobody believed me. And that's the trauma. Not that he didn't. There's no trauma. And he didn't. It's that nobody believed him. That's the trauma nobody believed him about. He knows this guy didn't do anything bad. It didn't happen to me. And you guys are watching you forcing me to watch you criminalize this man and make him a bad person. I. He hasn't done that to me. And that confusion, that sort of guilt of nothing happened and that guy's suffering because of me is what he's expressing in that. In Kendrick, in his own song for then to Drake for Drake to show up and be like, oh, you got touched. Right. He's showing. Oh, I also don't believe you. Your sore spot, b****. Your sore spot, b****. Oh. Oh, you sore because nobody believed you. I think you got touched, too. That's essentially what he's doing. He's just mocking that instance. He didn't get molested. Yes. Drake knows this people. The point of the line was that. But it was so kind of dark. It was so dark in a weird and removed non Drake way.
Cristina: Yes. That people couldn't.
Jack: It couldn't register.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And that's where I would argue this s*** sunk into real art. With the Meet the Grams and the Heart six, we saw two people. Drake did not feel hate at the beginning of this. He did not. Drake is a hater in general. He doesn't hate any one guy. He's a business guy. He's a Jewish business guy. He's gonna use people as necessary, and anybody who has has a problem with that. Shut the f. Because. Because they signed up for it. They got fame off of him too. He's a businessman, and he's good at it, and people want that. And look, if he signs you on to his label, I know a lot of people got a problem with this. Oh, his label is milking people and sucking them dry, dude. He puts you on a label, the resources are there. He can't do everything for you. Eminem had the same problem.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: With slaughterhouse and with D12. They couldn't. They didn't want to do the work, bro. People didn't want to do the work. So the people who did f****** left the group. Now we know about Royce 9:5, because he said, f*** that s***. If nobody wants to do the work, I'm gonna do the work.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: Joe Button straight up tapped out. I was just a podcaster or some s*** like that, and it's like, okay, bro, do the work. The people who did the work got far. That's all it is. There's no. There's no instance in Earth. I don't even believe in racism, really. Like, it's real. Yes. But, like, skill overcomes anything. Talent overcomes anything. Tell me there's racism and that somehow Snoop Dogg isn't a millionaire at the same time that he says, f*** the man. Get the f*** out of here, bro. There's people who don't have to be part of the system and can still do it. He's black as f*** and successful as s***, and nobody's gonna question him on either. He'll be black as F*** and successful as s*** in front of you.
Cristina: Drake is racist.
Jack: I don't think. I think Drake is ignorant.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: I think Drake has a lot of ignorant things. I think Drake has a lot of ignorant things. Actually, that's a really good point to address because I think. I guess to play devil's advocate to the same argument I'm making here. One, yes. Artistic as f***. And probably the most artistic thing that Drake has ever done is the hard part. Sex, without a doubt. And then because of that line.
Cristina: Or there's more. No, no, it's in there that I just don't know about.
Jack: The entirety is his first instance of reflecting upon failure and his struggle with dealing with that. How is that not the art?
Cristina: I must have to listen to it again. I don't know.
Jack: He's just essentially in a version. He. He understands that he's quitting. He understands he's tapping out, but he's in a sustained version of denial through the process. But as the writer, he knows this. As Drake, he doesn't. And he displays it throughout the song by explaining how he's essentially slowly retreating with every line. Okay, all right, Just.
Cristina: Are you sure he's not being trolled?
Jack: What do you mean, trolled?
Cristina: I don't know. It's bad. I don't know. I don't hear what you hear.
Jack: I definitely hear. Okay, so let's unpack some of this first. This dude just called himself a woman, which is like. He straight up said, I don't want to fight a woman beater and feed your nature.
Cristina: That's hilarious.
Jack: Because you're. Because he'd be hitting you and you're a woman. Whatever, dude. There was a lot of missteps. There was a lot of missteps. And I think that's the primary takeaway from this beef with Drake, which is he did a lot of amazing things that are above his capacity on average. Like showing his true colors is above where we measure him, but you can't compete with somebody the likes of Kendrick. He's better than he thought and not as good as his fans think he is. That's exactly where he is. He's better than he thought and not as good as his fans think he.
Cristina: Is, but his fans are still defending him like he's the best thing ever.
Jack: But his fans also don't understand music. The Kendrick flies over their heads. You understand how complicated it is that a lot of these people don't understand real basic things that are happening in these songs.
Cristina: But isn't there, like, fans that are.
Jack: Both yeah, fans of both sides for sure. And that's the calm collective. But tribalism is normal these days and everybody has to pick a side. And if we're gonna un. Talk about that, first, this guy talking about when this guy got molested, the trouble that he's experiencing in writing this, and the turmoil because again, everything dark he says is followed by I don't want to do this anymore. Which means in the writing process, when he's creating one part, he's creating the other part. And he's disturbed by his own response. He writes the dark thing, follows it with I don't want to do this anymore. That's beat for beat. Oh, you got touched. I don't do this anymore. And you said, I f*** with little girls. I don't do this anymore. Like, that's every part of this song. It's his point. And then I want to do. It's some dark s***. And then I want to do this anymore. And it's like, okay, writer to writer, you connect the previous thought to the next one. Even as a musician, they make sense in your head as a writer. And he began as an actor writer, so that's a different skill. He writes sequentially, which means he most likely performs his music writing sequentially. And even if he has a team of people, this is probably not a team of people. And I think this was thought out sequentially, assuming that's the case. Every point he makes, anybody wants to listen to this song. The Heart six. The Heart Part six. Every point he makes is followed by his essential resignation of it. He's very removed, very resigned and throwing in the white flag. But after every point, you got touched. I don't like this. You come on, Pito. I don't like this. He's disturbed straight through the song. As dark as he's trying to be and as clever as he's trying to be. And this song is a series of missteps. He's f***** up all over the song. Yeah, this is a s*** show from beginning to end. But also, I would argue this is one of the most artistic songs that exist. Additionally, I would argue this song does something interesting that I think, other than continuing to mention the other guy's wife. And I think that's the next point I'm about to make, other than that point where he's mentioning the other guy's wife. I would argue that this, the series of missteps and how good a song it's up there with. It's hard to explain how I mean this without it being Taken literally. But what he's trying to do is something along the lines of Stan in this song, in how he's trying to reflect. Even if Eminem turns it into a literal narrative. And he's just being Drake again, but in the way he's being Drake again, it is not just, party, Drake, party. Drake checked out. This is. I'm disturbed and I want. I kind of hate you now. And I'm. I don't. He's just. He's just as disturbed by me. The Grams, I think. I think that's what really this is. He's like, this is f****** nuts. And I don't know what to do. And it's like, f*** this.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Think about everything he says in the song. You got touched. This is f****** disturbing. He's just responding this s*** and it doesn't work. He doesn't like it's weak. He doesn't like it. It doesn't come through. But we can see it doesn't come through. That's the art he's showing us to see that. That's the art he's showing us the discomfort. I bet. I bet he did have somebody tell him no on that song. I bet he had somebody tell him no on that song.
Cristina: Like, don't release it.
Jack: Don't release it. I know. I know somebody told him no. Probably several people. But also, I. I think this isn't a Drake song. I think Aubrey wrote this.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: I think Aubrey is disturbed and he needed to personally respond.
Cristina: That's possible.
Jack: Yeah. There's a lot of disagreement on that. I know, but a hundred percent. I believe this is the response to Meet the Grams directly. And I believe that this is Drake's most artistic piece ever in how he is showing us he's disturbed, talking s*** simultaneously, which preserves original Drake. And he manages to also throw the flag. That's three really nice accomplishments simultaneously. You could talk s*** while backing up and make beautiful art. Now, outside of that, you did call yourself a woman. You say that like you're f****** being fed information by idiots. And I've been feeding you information for crazy long. I know. People are twisting the meme.
Cristina: Intro is really like, come on. It's hard to take the song seriously. When he says no. That's the first thing he says.
Jack: He's a. Here's a problem. Drake is not a good writer. We know what he means, and we're trolling him. That's what's happening.
Cristina: He's trolling himself.
Jack: He kind of is. No, he's just a bad writer, bro.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: He makes party music and he's been doing pop music for a while. He does. The pop rapper dude.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And he knows he's a pop rapper. He's rich as f***. He's a businessman. He knows what he's doing. His fans are in denial about him being a pop.
Cristina: This is not him.
Jack: This is not him. You're trying to get him to do. And this is where I. Again, I will. I'm gonna stand by Drake for now and say he did amazing for not being able to do this every day.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: You know, who else is gonna drop Family Matters as a real life song that exists on earth? And what you do is pop rap. That's like hearing Tory Lanez rap for the first time and being like, God d***, you've been doing R B this whole time. You know, one of those moments and it's like, well, this isn't Drake. Family Matters isn't Drake. Family Matters is like Drake fused with Eminem for a moment or some s***. You know, got a little spice. That was unnatural in there, and I like that. I actually think out of all these songs, that was his best. I know I was. Whatever about Push Ups, it wasn't bad, but it's, like, not stuck for me. And the Hard Part six. Art, pure art.
Cristina: You're saying that's your favorite?
Jack: The Hard Part six? No, I'm saying Family Matters.
Cristina: Oh, okay, okay.
Jack: The Hard Part six is just art. I'm saying Family Matters is my favorite one of these songs. But before we jump into talking about Kendrick in particular and his tracks here, I'm trying to avoid really diving into lyrics in particular. I want to talk about sort of the meaning of the music, if that makes sense.
Cristina: We'll see.
Jack: But before we do that, what I want to say is that standing by Drake right now, pop rapper, party rapper, or whatever the f***, a guy who does not write in general, really complicated, comprehensive, double, triple, quadruple entendres. Commenting on State of Society. He's not the guy doing that again. Very impressive that he managed to come up to this level.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And still, like, again, huge misstep with that song, but still a work of art. And I know a lot of people aren't gonna give him those flowers, but that s*** is a work of art, bro. He. He was very disturbed in writing that, and I like that. He probably fought somebody to put that out. He probably. We have an episode like that of us catching a panic attack in action. Like, art is hard to create and to find the things that are real and raw and like we asked you, do you want to do this? And you agreed, like, you know, the art of the moment is impressive. And it might not be pretty, but, God, is it an impression that everybody got? Everybody's like, oh, what the f***? Everybody looks at it because it's art. It has a place where you're commenting on it and you're looking at it from every angle and you're like, what the f***? But you're so shocked. And it has your attention.
Cristina: I guess it is very similar. And to meet the grabs and where you're a little cringe, you're shocked, you.
Jack: Have to look at it. You. And you don't want to, but you have to. It is that now all of these flowers given to Drake. We got to unpack the problem. Drake is not just a guest in hip hop. Drake is a guest in the culture, Hood, black, whatever you want to call it. The culture, because he doesn't have roots in it. And there's a word here that's gonna summarize my point before I get to it. And it's nuanced. He does not grasp nuance. And there is. It's inevitable that I have to address a line in particular, I'm trying not.
Cristina: To, of what he says or of what Kendrick says.
Jack: But where the violation rests, which is Whitney, gets mentioned. Kendrick does not immediately pounce. He drops euphoria. And in euphoria, he makes a very basic declaration. If this is a battle, we're gonna keep it a battle. Don't bring family in. That's essentially the message given. I'm trying to ignore the line that's essentially the message given here. Don't keep family out of it. This is a friendly spar.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: In the hood, there is a very specific logic that we all abide by. It's the street rule that everybody obeys. Right? A good example of a street rule is, we're gonna fight because we have some problem. We got a beef, so we're gonna go outside and we're gonna handle it. One, nobody's homie jumps in. This is between A and B. The rest of you can see your f****** way out. Now, that's an obvious rule. As soon as some other m*********** jumps in, a brawl begins, because we're not having that. Everybody's knocking out everybody. If anybody else jumps in.
Cristina: Logic, okay?
Jack: One to one. The second part, if the homie says, we're just gonna go to the face first, one to knock the f*** out, that's crazy. You're just gonna do that. The opposite could be true only below. We're just gonna f****** go in because you're just trying to deal with the thing. But also, you guys have lives, and you don't want to f*** your lives up. Oh, I've got to put on a suit later and go to work, you know, so you understand the struggles you guys deal with day to day, and you understand at least the courtesy of, I might not like this m***********, but that's my brother, nevertheless, versus the rest of the world. That logic is granular and hard to grasp if you're not raised in it, but it is real and it is exaggeratedly nuanced. For Kendrick to say, this is the line and you don't have to agree to it, you don't have to understand it, but you're gonna abide by it. That's the rules of the hood. And for Drake to double down and then again toss Whitney in there, that is like saying, don't shoot for the face. And the first thing you do is f****** give that n**** a black eye. Okay, now we got a problem. Yes, Right now we got an issue.
Cristina: Punch them in the eye.
Jack: Now we got an issue.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Now you are sort of violating the law. Now, of course, if somebody doesn't say, usually these things happen between friends, right? We're having a beef. We're having. We got a real argument and we got a f****** solve it. Not with a complete stranger. Not with a complete stranger. You know, this is a complete stranger. You defend yourself to stay alive, obviously, in the hood, but usually this rules I'm talking about are f******, you know, tea from across the street. And this m*********** is always popping s***. But we're from the same f****** block or some s***. And it's like, we can't really, like, kill each other out here, but, like, we're gonna f****** deal with it in the f****** street and just call it a day, you know, you still gotta see him every f****** day.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: And, like, at the end of the day, what benefit is there new? F****** killing each other. You guys just don't like each other. The end. Get the energy out and f****** wait until it builds up later again, you know, that's how you deal with it.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: But you fight clean. You follow as clean as the rules allow for, you know, which is really. You have to remember we got struggles and we got lives. You can't f*** s*** up like that. Especially when we are people of color and we struggle naturally. Just f****** walking outside and somebody's got an issue with the way we f****** Look, I got dreads. Walk around and people look, what the f***? You know, like, it's. You give them the courtesy of. They are people in a struggle. And you don't have to know what the struggle is or give a. It is what it is. We draw the line, and that is what it is. We're gonna fight that way.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Drake doesn't understand that. And that's where he culturally failed as an actor. You are versatile, bro. You can do all different types of rap, probably even things outside of rap. I know you don't lean there because it's probably a problem. If you were to try to sustain your rap image. So you don't. So you hit all the rap places and you're an actor. You do your homework. You practice, you rehearse. You had vocal coaches, you understand, working on the craft.
Cristina: He's just a stage performer.
Jack: He's a stage performer. Exactly. So he's gonna s*** on everybody at their game because he can study everybody's game. Oh, you're an actual rapper. Well, I'm an actual actor. I could do what you could do, even if it's an imitation and what he can do. So I'm better than both of you. That's a reality. He can outsell anybody because Drake has everybody's skill, minus the nuance. That word matters because he can only insert stereotypes where he does not know the nuance. You see the problem? It immediately got problematic.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: Because where the nuance would go. He can only insert a stereotype because he doesn't know.
Cristina: No. When he's not imitating, he has to just make it up.
Jack: Exactly. Thinks, you know, so seen, Kendrick says, have you ever played. Also very specific. Have you ever played, like, you know how to play, bro? That's what he's asking. You know how to play. You know how the f*** to play this game. And then he laid out the rules. The first thing Drake did was show he doesn't know how to play. That's the problem. Cultural problem. That's where everybody else was like, okay, you can jump him. It's fine. Because he proved to the black cult. And this is again, the nuance. And I know that the people who are siding with Drake on this now watch that flip, right? You see that tone? I'm already. You can see me migrating over to Kendrick now, because I know the people who are objectively standing on Drake's side and saying there is no such thing as a loss on his behalf are people who themselves don't know the nuance. That's the F****** problem. They are supporting his lack of understanding because they don't know where he f***** up. Because they don't know it. Do you see? That makes perfect sense. Their ignorance means they can't tell why he violated.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: And why everybody who is part of the culture is like, no f****** way. We're siding with Drake. Think about it.
Cristina: That makes a lot of sense.
Jack: Yes. That's where the problem lies.
Cristina: That's where Drake can lose those fans.
Jack: Though he can never lose those fans because they don't know. He will never. He's always. He's Michael Jackson. He's gonna outperform. He's gonna perform everybody. There's nothing he could do. He's gonna outperform everybody. He's an actor and he'll continue to acquire sounds. His skill is unmatched and he has to be given to respect. He might not be the best rapper in the world, but he's the best actor in the world. And guess what? He can act as rapper. The best rapper in the world. He can act as the best rapper in the world. Now, how many people who aren't the best rapper in the world can do that? Mmm. You see, the illusion matters, too. That's what he sells.
Cristina: He sells his trick, which is acting as the best rapper.
Jack: Acting as the best rapper. Now we start to peel back. Now we're getting to the depth. You see, these are the things that his fans could not understand. They're missing the fact that at the end of the day, you strip it all back. It was acting.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: He cannot grasp the nuance. You have to insert stereotype. Now, let's take a step back. Let's give it a name. A stereotype based on a generalization about a race is called what?
Cristina: Say that again.
Jack: A stereotype that is about a race and through a generalization in order to reach that conclusion. Is what. This is not so complicated. It's racism, man. It's racism.
Cristina: I don't know.
Jack: It's a. What is a stereotype about race when you use it in the most general form, beyond the stereotype.
Cristina: Okay, so racism.
Jack: That's racism. Because in order to leave the stereotype, you must make a reflection towards other races. How would I react in this race opposite to another race? Oh, black people are confrontational. Well, you don't know the nuance of the times. We are not, bro. And you showed us that because we are not just animals.
Cristina: Oh, my gosh, that's so sad.
Jack: You see the problem. That is the issue. He had to insert a stereotype in order to resolve the nuance. He did, did not understand. He didn't get raised with, look, Tyrone's a d***, but let's be real, bro. You're kind of a d*** too. You guys talk s*** back and forward. So you both go out there, you find out what's happening and then you f****** fight it out. And then you're gonna get the f*** up and shake hands and then you're both gonna go home. That's what reality is. But he's a f****** racist. So he thinks the hood is just infinite gang s***. That there's no decent people. And the only approach when somebody draws a line is to immediately break through it. So you generalize and basically said that everybody in the hood is the gangster is what you're saying. Oh, Drake. That's how he's approaching it. A decent, non gang affiliated individual draws his line and you treat him like he's any other gangster and like you're gonna pop him. You tell me.
Cristina: Okay, okay.
Jack: He could have approached it like a battle rap. He approached it like, for lack of a better word, a street n****, Drake. Yeah, okay, but somebody in the hood versus a street n**** are two different things. And let's clarify, we are talking about his impression of a street n****, because he is not.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: So it's a stereotype at the end of the day. Even his response to all of it, Every bit. It's all, it's all an act. It's all a f****** act.
Cristina: Even the last one where that's real.
Jack: What do you mean? Well, he pulled back. He pulled back. I don't know if he knows he f***** up. I don't know if he knows he f***** up. He probably does. And that's probably where that resignation rests in. Like, you cross the line. You saw how much. I don't think it was just the jab, but your homies all were like, what the f***? Like everybody in your camp looked at you like, d***, bro, you really like this? That's. That's a problem. And at that point, you sit in dark a** room and you're like. Then you write the hard sex emo and stuff. F*** this. This sucks. I hate you and I don't like this. Like that was basically that song. I hate you and I don't like this.
Cristina: I don't know, it's just. It's really bad. I know you're saying it's great, but.
Jack: It'S a work of art. I'm not saying it's great. I'm saying it's a work of art. I'm saying it's the most artistic thing he's ever done.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: The fact that he can dig deep and kind of show his worry and his anxiety about it and his discomfort so openly without worrying about the judgment. Dude, somebody told him not to put the song out. There's no way they didn't. The art is the fact that he did. And he's like, I'm uncomfortable. And I know this s*** makes no sense. That's how I felt. That's how he f****** felt.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And yeah, he's trying to again. It's a struggle, right? It's the denial. Oh, no. I set you up. But, like, why would I even do that? That doesn't make any sense. Why would I need to if you're nobody but you and your stupid s***. But f***, this is uncomfortable. You know, it's just that over and over, over and over, and it's like, yeah, what a weird struggle you got in this song, man. That's a strange place to be, but it's a real place that he's actually at.
Cristina: Okay, so what have. What's about that argument in Twitter that you were talking about?
Jack: Okay. Oh, my God. Okay, so basically it goes like this. There's a lot of dudes riding Drake's d***, essentially. And parts where I agree, parts where I agree, the stances I agree on. There's a lot of grown men kind of arguing about other grown men and which grown man is their favorite grown man and which grown man isn't their favorite grown man. And, like, the fact that you like this grown man means you're an idiot. Because the fact that I like this grown man means I'm better. And it's like, you're kind of all gay. You're all gay, all of you. Anybody? Part of this conversation that's like, oh, you're the better. No, mine's better. My man's better. It's like, no, you're all gay. This is a huge loss for all of you. Kendrick won, but even Kendrick's fans lost because they're gay now. They became gay through the entirety of this beef. They learned they are in love with Kendrick and want to suck his d***. That's what it seems. Oh, man, it's everywhere. So the points I agree with relative to that are, well, yeah, they're gay. It's kind of p**** s***. What the f*** are you guys doing? Like, what? This is your life. You grown a** men are on here really debating about which other men is better for you. Oh, God.
Cristina: Isn't that what people do with teams. They choose their favorite player, I guess.
Jack: But what the f***? D***, bro. They're like legitimately arguing. So you're making a sense that that's not gay. No, I'm saying that's just normal to be gay. Yes, I guess. Fandom is weird, dude. This is a bunch of grown men.
Cristina: It's totally normal. It's gay probably, but it's normal.
Jack: It's a little bit gay. It's a little bit gay. I think a couple of the way they defendant places that I disagree. I disagree that first of all, Drake put nothing good. I disagree with that entirely. I think it's crazy. This defense is dumb. I think every song that Drake put is in its own right. Something unique and especially high quality for Drake with the fam with Family Matters being without a doubt his greatest song ever. And he. That's him peaking right there. I don't know if he can top that because again, he's too broad and he spreads out too thin to master any one thing. This was just true inspiration striking. He's more of a machine, you know, he has writers and we got producers and we pump it out like clockwork. We got work every year. Everybody's. There's an order to it. He's. He's very jewy. He's very jewy. So he does very jewy things. And it's a business he runs like a business. Less of a record label, more of a machine. But somehow he still managed to in that mess, come up with the inspiration to pump out Family Matters. And that's astounding.
Cristina: I think really are just ignoring that.
Jack: A lot of people are ignoring that. So points I don't like are both sides talking to each other about that. Drake's team swears Kendrick did not put anything good out. And Kendrick's team swears Drake's team did not put anything good out. You're all gay. They both put amazing songs out. Shut the f*** up. You guys don't know anything about music if you legitimately believe neither. Like the other guy didn't put anything good out. That's some haters. Yeah, straight hater s***. Now allegations, hits and misses. I do not like the possibilities of the accusations on both of these behalfs. Right. There are points on both sides. The one that I agree with from our online poster in the argument is to say something like calling a peer a pedophile if it turns out not true. This is an if not true. Kendrick is a f***** up human because even for the sake of a rap battle that is your peer. And you aren't taking into account how retarded fans are. And people in general, especially the left these days, are just a bunch of brain dead, whiny morons. So you end up in a situation where if this isn't true and if you did this just to f*** around, or if you didn't have factual proof concrete before you threw it out there and it turns out not true, you're a f***** up garbage human because you didn't take into account how he worked to get where he is regardless of how he did it. And you don't have to agree with any part of that. Business is business. And you have no place in judging how he runs his business. Everybody in all of those exchanges agreed and signed their names on pieces of paper. You are not Save a ho, bro. You are not Captain Save a ho. Calm the f*** down. If this turns out not true, he threw a crazy a** allegation that's gonna ruin this man's image for all of infinity, regardless of how many fans he retains because he's Drake. You were f****** somebody with somebody's money. You're pulling food out of somebody's mouth. That's not right. That's Kendrick violating.
Cristina: Except that he didn't make that up. That's not a rumor. He just started out of nowhere.
Jack: He's doubling down and people will take his voice into account. Considering he is somebody who would quote, have connects as somebody in the business, he has to consider what his voice in particular saying it could do.
Cristina: No, he's just saying what everyone else is saying.
Jack: Doesn't matter if he's saying what everybody else is saying. It is the fact that he's saying it that could be the problem. If a random dude online says it. Who gives a s***? Random people say s*** online all the time. Him saying it, his fan base will without a doubt just take it as fact, whether true or not. They did.
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: Whether true or not, the opposite team is not gonna believe it, whether true or not. But the fact that if not true, you made people believe that he is a pedophile. People who wouldn't have already. Your voice is farther reaching than most people's and. And you throw that out there, that is f***** up human s***. Second thing, that is f***** up human s*** if not true. If Drake turns out to yes, have an 11 year old daughter and the 11 year old daughter was kept out of the light because he doesn't want to give his children f****** early fame child syndrome, which he has. Which he has. Yeah, I guess which everybody becomes a f*** nut. When you're a f****** kid and you're exposed to fame and you can't escape it.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: So in order, potentially in order to solve that problem, you could just have your kid away from the light. If that child turns out to be supported, if that child turns out to have been under his watch and he is taking care of the kid in him, whether or not he's supporting, like showing up in person depends on his arrangement with the mom or whatever the. That's nobody's business if she's okay with it. I guess that's up to throw a kit cuz fans are weird, bro, and they're going to hunt this girl down. You just made a child famous. Up human. Up human. That's dark. That's. You suck. Because you're this girl's little life. If she is being taken care of and she was just being avoided from becoming famous and now you threw that information out there, people go dig her up and they're like, oh no, he's f****** right, that's her. You f***** that girl. You did that. You're f****** with minors. You f****** a miner's life up. Okay, that's f***** up, not right. And you're messing a peers f****** image now if that son of a b**** turns out to be truly again. There's many circumstances for why a child star will reach out to a former child star and ask them about how to navigate the world of being famous at that age. It makes perfect sense that Billy would reach out to Drake. People are ignorant. They want to make up stories. She disputed any of them and said no.
Cristina: Why didn't Drake bring it up? Kendrick didn't say her.
Jack: He's misstepping left and right. Stop overthinking missteps, okay? There's no point to what he did. He was in panic mode. It was survival.
Cristina: You're defending him from him though?
Jack: Yeah, he's an idiot. He f***** up everywhere. I'm not saying he didn't f*** that up, but I'm saying that like he's an idiot. Let's not think about it any harder than that. He's an idiot. You guys are thinking, oh, he's a mastermind. No, he's a f****** idiot. Yeah, take it like that. He's a f****** idiot. He's a great businessman. He's not tuned into the culture. Yes, he is into the way that he can study, but he can't understand nuance because he wasn't born with it. He wasn't there. He wasn't on the streets with us getting jumped or jumping somebody or f****** watching out or changing your route every day just so you don't get jumped. He doesn't know those things because that wasn't his f****** life. You know? There isn't a f****** day of my life I haven't heard somebody say n****. That's never happened in my life. I've never not heard that. I understand every variation that could exist.
Cristina: There's many.
Jack: You could say just the word n**** and get a lot across. You do something ridiculous, and I just say n*****. You know, what the. But I could just walk up to you and be like, no, okay. Like, you good. Like, you good. Same s***, actually. That's another one. You good. It's like, yo, man, you good. Like, you. You. Do you get hurt? Somebody who you don't know. Yo, do you good?
Cristina: Mm.
Jack: Like, do I know you? But that's. Again, that s***. That's f****** clean code switching to that s***. F******. He couldn't comprehend the nuance of how it sounds when this guy says it and how it sounds with that guy. It. And the context of each different version. He could not understand when somebody's like, do you know how to play, bro? Here's the line. And he just immediately broke. It's like, dude, everybody's gonna look at you weird. You just failed the test. And he only. He knew you were gonna f*** it up. He wasn't really expecting you to not. He wasn't really expecting you to not get it. Yeah, I mean, to not get it. He wasn't really expecting you to not cut through it. He was putting there intentionally, knowing you would. To expose the fact that you wouldn't catch it.
Cristina: Y. Yeah, I see that.
Jack: Yeah, that's it. That was the whole point. And you failed the nuance. You failed the nuance test, which is. Do you know how he asked you, bro, do you know how to play?
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: And then he told you the rules, and then you showed him. You have no idea how to play. That's really where everybody else took a step back.
Cristina: That is a fail.
Jack: That is really it. That is. I guess that's my point. And more than trying to unpack, like, that's why I'm not sure. I guess that's why I knew there was a goal in me trying not to get to. Because I want to talk about these songs in the way I have been. Like, sort of what they mean, not what they're saying. Because you could find a thousand people discussing that.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: And I.
Cristina: Everywhere. Yeah.
Jack: Yeah. Like, you don't need my extra input on the same s***. I want to, like I said, talk about the beef itself and the situation that I believe is really the focal point here and the nuance that people are missing. And again, I did want to address it. I think the Heart is Drake's magnum opus of art. Even if it's sloppy. I hope he attempts something like this without the missteps. A true dark self reflection where you're disturbed in the process. Opposite. To Meet the Grams, which we didn't even have a moment to talk about, but other than unpacking the lyrics, which we're not gonna do, it is an exceptionally dark song and probably among one of the darkest songs I've ever heard. Up there with, like, Kim. I love that song so much. It is my favorite song that came from this entire thing. And I think that. I think. Oh, man. It's just. People are disturbed by the song in general. That is a disturbing song. People are generally disturbed. But just like the Heart, part six, it's something you can't look away from. It's really hard for people to not listen to it and, like, be weirded out. And, like, I think morally speaking, we lost something.
Cristina: What?
Jack: Yeah. Really? Really. I do think, morally speaking, I think Kendrick might be a piece of s*** on the other side of this. And I think Drake, too. I think both of them became worse people in this interaction.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: I think both of them stooped to some s***, but I think musically, both of them elevated.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: They both went up somewhere that neither one of them was previously.
Cristina: I don't know if they are worse. I feel like they're just showing us a different side. Like a side that was always there. They just don't show it because, like, what reason that they have.
Jack: Fair. Absolutely fair. I don't think they're. Yeah, yeah. I don't think they're showing us anything that they aren't or that they have recently become.
Cristina: Like, this feels real.
Jack: Yes. If anything, it's more of them.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: But I think in where we are losing something is we're losing the characters they've built for us that got stripped a little farther back.
Cristina: Okay.
Jack: Because we now got connected to some of the real dark, some of the real bad, some of the real disturbing nature that they're both capable of. Even if Drake was honestly disturbing himself in the process. Because, again, I know it's something to make fun of. Like, you're trying to take a shot at him and then, like, recoiling at your own shot. Like, what the f*** is Wrong with you. But that's what other song exists like that where he. I don't know, he makes a point and then he points out that he's disturbed by it. That's an exceptionally unique piece of media that has no equivalent that exists. It is just one. It is just that. That is the only version of this.
Cristina: Yeah, man. And that's the end.
Jack: The end of what? The beef?
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Unless something else comes out. So, yeah, I think Push Ups is by far the easy one to ignore. I think this really became something to look at when Kendrick honestly focused. Because until Push Ups, like, really, we just had some kind of average whatever. Because let's be real, on this list, I don't have 616 because we're looking on a Spotify list. But 616 is kind of where Kendrick kind of stepped in is like, okay, you're really my target. But he doesn't actualize that until euphoria, where he's really pointing. You're my target. Here are the rules. This is the song where actually happens.
Cristina: I know you're gonna break.
Jack: Well, he doesn't say that. He baits him into breaking the rules by saying, oh, you a real G. Then let's play real G games. The whole game was a trap. There was no game. It was so that you can prove you wouldn't even know how to begin.
Cristina: Okay?
Jack: And that was proven. He was exposed for being a guest in the culture. He was exposed for being an actor who pretends to be hood all through the nuance that he himself couldn't grasp. He doesn't know how other people or why other people suddenly turned on him. And it's because you expose your subtle racist things. Not that you're an actual racist. I don't think Drake is an actual racist. But he must insert stereotypes about race that you used through your generalization into where you don't understand nuance. And by default, you could only get that from your white friends, where you were raised, from your environment through the stereotypes you learned, which were from white people. White people's take on black people, that is a racist take. So you stepping forward when you were told stand your ground was where you f***** up. He couldn't have known because he doesn't understand. And that was the point. That was the whole point. Most people who listen to this beef and aren't part of the culture are not gonna grasp that that's the entire point of everything. This entire beef starts with euphorias. Do you know how to play? Here are the rules there's nothing in between.
Cristina: That you actually are part of the culture. And then you fail.
Jack: Yes. Show us your part of the culture. Everything that happened between Euphoria and Not Like Us, which is Family Matters and Meet the Grams. That's for sure. Kendrick is at the end of Euphoria, already capable of just throwing not like us out there. Because the point was made. The point was made, and he specifically made the point so that the people most tuned into the culture would understand the people in Atlanta. Who he's using, who Drake's using. He pointed out he doesn't get the nuance. He built the test in front of the world to see.
Cristina: Yes.
Jack: And then told them, here's the game. Play it. And then he just inserted racist ideology into where the nuance of understanding the culture should be. That is the mic drop. Thank you guys for listening to my take essentially, on what this situation is.
Cristina: So was it a fail? It wasn't a fail. Even though Drake failed the test. You're not saying.
Jack: I don't think Drake failed as a musician. I think Drake came up. I think there he had a lot of missteps, but it's expected. Competing with whatever the f*** Kendrick turned out to be. Like, who the h*** expected his level of skill? We knew he was good, but d***, bro, we didn't know this good. Like, he was way better than any of us could have imagined. And we thought he was the best.
Cristina: I thought he was. I don't know. It seems like he's done some pretty amazing songs.
Jack: Also, side note, weird Twitter fact. Everybody on Twitter, just for whatever reason, wants Eminem to respond. It's like anytime there's a beef, they just need him to talk.
Cristina: That'd be cool.
Jack: That'd be cool. But there's no reason here, considering that the loser is the obvious Drake.
Cristina: And, yeah, there's no reason to say anything.
Jack: I'm forever listening to both of these guys. So anybody who thinks one makes good music and the other one doesn't, like, one makes conscious rap and the other one makes pop rap.
Cristina: Both make good music.
Jack: They both make good, different music.
Cristina: Yeah.
Jack: Anyways, if you guys want to give us your ideas, your opinions on this, you can contact us on our socials. That's just convoping pod on Twitter, on Facebook, on Instagram, on Tik Tok.
Cristina: And remember to subscribe, rate, and review the show.
Jack: Yeah. And word of mouth is the most exaggerated thing that has ever existed. So tell everybody about the program.
Cristina: This has been the Rambling podcast. Take nothing personal, and thanks for listening Bye.
Jack: Sam. The podcast is hosted by Christina Collazo and Jack Thomas, produced by Lynn Taylor and Published by Great Thoughts.info Art by Zero Lupo and logo by Seth McCallister, with social media managed by Amber Black.